April 8, 2025 • 23 mins
What if setting boundaries could transform your life and career? Join us for an engaging conversation with Barb, a dynamic boundaries coach and fellow podcaster, who shares her remarkable journey from being a talkative child often told to be quiet, to realizing the power of her voice as a professional asset. Barb opens up about her late-life discovery of codependency and how her involvement in 12-step recovery programs enabled her to build healthier boundaries. Now, she’s on a mission to empower professional women to prioritize their needs and thrive, using the very skills she honed through her own experiences. Her podcast, Fragmented to Whole: Life Lessons from 12 Step Recovery, stands as a testament to her growth and commitment to helping others reclaim their autonomy.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. We uncover the transformative power of gratitude in everyday life, sharing personal stories about managing expectations and cultivating a mindset of appreciation. From navigating workplace challenges with a notoriously unreliable boss to embracing the habit of maintaining a gratitude journal, learn how adjusting your expectations and focusing on gratitude can significantly reduce stress and promote personal growth. Plus, we introduce a free boundary-building starter kit packed with practical tools to help you align your personal boundaries with your values. This episode promises to deliver insights and inspiration for anyone ready to embrace change and foster personal development.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello there and welcome back to the next episode
of Overcome Yourself, thepodcast.
As you know, my name is Nicoleand today I'm so excited to be
here with Barb, and Barb is kindof like me.
She got in trouble for talkingtoo much I bet it was all over
your report cards when she waslittle and now we get paid to
(00:23):
talk.
We turned our weakness into oursuperpower and I'm so excited
to hear all about that.
So, barb, take it away and letus know who you are and who you
help now.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, I'd love to.
So thank you so much and I justlove your, the concept of
overcome yourself.
So I do want to address thetalking thing.
So I got in trouble.
I remember being my familystopped going to church when I
was six.
But I remember being in troublein church for talking.
And then, years later, thatsame girl I got in trouble for
talking with.
(00:52):
We sat next to each other inchorus and got in trouble and I
was always like talking too much, talking too loud, getting in
trouble.
And then, a few years ago, whenI started in the coaching
business, I went to thistraining and this guy talked
about like what did you get introuble?
And then, a few years ago, whenI started in the coaching
business, I went to thistraining and this guy talked
about like what did you get introuble for as a kid Cause it
might be your greatest gift.
And I was like, oh my God,talking.
And so I'm a podcaster, so Italk.
(01:14):
I'm a coach, so I talk and I'ma connector in the world of
entrepreneurship, so I talk andI get paid to do it.
And so like, screw everybodywho says you know you talk too
much or whatever, but I'm aboundaries coach and so, just to
tell you, like how thathappened, I I don't know if
(01:38):
you've ever heard of the termcodependence.
I had not heard of that term,nicole, until I hit a
codependent bottom in 2015 atthe age of 52.
So a codependent person isbasically someone who's focused
on everything outside themselves.
So other people what are theydoing?
Not doing Like, what does thesituation need?
What does the organization need?
What does the person need?
They neglect themselves.
(02:00):
The classic codependent is in arelationship with an addict or
an alcoholic.
So that could be a romantic,could be their, you know, the
parent of an adult child, itcould be a sibling or something.
But not everybody that'scodependent is in such a
relationship.
And I had never even heard thatword, despite starting therapy
at 15, being introduced toself-help genre when I was like
(02:22):
22, 23, like seminars andretreats and works, like you
just name it.
I did all the things and I gotinto 12-step recovery for
codependence.
I'm now in a couple of otherprograms for other things which
you know, maybe we'll get to ornot, but I just didn't even know
that it was a thing and my lifewas absolutely transformed from
(02:45):
12 step recovery and I learnedso, so, so many things in
recovery, but because my corewound is codependence, learning
how to build healthy boundarieswas such a game changer for me,
partly because it's the antidoteto building I mean, it's the
antidote to codependence, but,um, partly because boundaries
(03:08):
permeate every area of your life.
So there I can.
You know like I mostly helppeople that have difficult
relationships, whether at workor at home, or, you know, family
of origin or something likethat.
But, um, you know people uh,have issues with boundaries,
with you know no-transcriptaround them.
(03:54):
It changes things.
And then, a couple years intorecovery, I got laid off from
Yale and I found my way into theworld of startups and
innovation and entrepreneurshipin New Haven and at Yale, and I
started my own business.
I very quickly started mypodcast, which is called
Fragmented to Whole Life Lessonsfrom 12 Step Recovery, and I
(04:14):
started it, nicole, with novision whatsoever.
I had no, I stumbled my wayhere.
I now have 304 episodes right,so I had no idea what I was
doing.
304 episodes right, so I had noidea what I was doing.
And I started it because Ifound all this wisdom in
recovery that I just was notlearning elsewhere and it didn't
occur to me that it would haveanything to do with my business.
(04:35):
It's now the number one way Iget clients.
I will say Google is starting tolike ramp up in terms of people
finding me from Google and Ijust started sort of generally
coaching and after a coupleyears realized you really need
to have a niche and it just madesense for me to be a boundaries
coach because of my livedexperience 50 something years of
(04:57):
no boundaries and having suchhealthy boundaries now that now
I coach people.
So what happened for me, nicole, is like I learned how to build
healthy boundaries, so thissort of meandering, haphazard
path through the 12 steprecovery programs I was in.
It's not like someone sat medown and was like here we're
going to build boundaries now,barb, that's not what happened.
So after I got a handle on, I'mlike these boundaries are
(05:19):
amazing.
I started reading about themand when I would read about them
it like retroactively helped meunderstand like what happened.
And as I was reading them Iwould do these drawings to
visually depict the principles Iwas understanding.
And those drawings turned intohandouts which turned into a
workbook which is now thebackbone of my boundaries
coaching program.
(05:39):
So I have a 12 week or 12 module, which is a 12 week multimedia
curriculum that I use Like Iteach my clients.
So if they like structure, thisis the program for them and the
transformations I've been ableto have people help people have
have been incredible.
So my, um, my, my targetaudience are professional women
(06:02):
who say yes when they reallywant to say no and who neglect
themselves because they're sofocused on others.
Because that was me, so I wantto help former me.
So I mean I could go on.
I'm going to stop there becauseit is your podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
No, no, no, no.
This is all about you.
We want to know about you andthis is all fantastic.
Learning to say no, like yousaid.
It permeates every area of ourlife, like with food, with our
relationships, with our kids,and I love the example that you
gave as a leader in yourworkplace, how that had that
ripple effect.
(06:37):
And boundaries are healthy,right.
So, yeah, please tell me alittle bit more.
I would love to know um thestory of you overcoming yourself
to get to this point if youwant to talk to.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I think the way that I I don't know that I
would have used that language,but I, when I read overcome
yourself, I'm like, oh my god,that's essentially what I did.
So I am a terriblyintrospective person.
I'd read seven gajillionself-help books, been in therapy
forever, did all work, and Igot into 12-step recovery and
the first like two to threeyears I found out just volumes
(07:09):
about myself that I wascompletely blind to and I was
like why was I paying for allthat therapy if literally none
of this stuff?
So I think for me the numberone paradigm shift of my
recovery was coming out ofvictim mentality.
So this is a really goodexample of coming getting over
myself.
So I'm not the quintessentiallike woe is me, the world is
(07:32):
against me, kind of victim.
I always felt like a powerfulwoman of agency.
My victim mentality was way moresubtle than that.
So the way that I first startedto see it was when I did a
relationship inventory in12-step recovery.
I thought I happen to date men.
So, like every man on my list,I was like, well, if he would
just xyz or he would fill in theblank, then everything would be
(07:54):
okay.
And I started to realize, wait,that's me acting like I have
nothing to do with the status ofany of my relationships and it
was like whoa.
And then, once I saw that inthe romance department, I
started to realize it was thesame with my friendships, with
my colleagues, with my family,and I think I probably have like
nine episodes now on victimmentality, because every time
(08:17):
another layer of that mentalitycomes off, I do an episode about
it because it's insidious, it'sa mentality and it comes from
somewhere.
Like if you have victimmentality, you've probably been
victimized in some way, shape orform, but you don't have to
live with that mentality.
And so if you're saying if onlya lot, if you blame a lot, if
(08:39):
you complain a lot like I alwaysthought I was a really positive
, optimistic person and I did abunch of work in my late 20s to
clean up negative self talk,when I got in recovery it was
like whoa, there was thismountain of negativity, so
ruminating about the past,catastrophizing about the future
(08:59):
, blaming other people andcomplaining about stuff.
I literally like swam in thatstuff and so that's a huge way
that I got over myself insteadof thinking like things were
happening at me or to me,realizing I actually have
choices here.
And I want to give you like aneveryday example that I bet a
(09:20):
lot of people can identify with,and that is when you're driving
in traffic a lot of people canidentify with, and that is when
you're driving in traffic.
So a big, huge like awakening Ihad was one day.
My first couple of months, ormaybe three months or so in
recovery, I'm on my way to workin a traffic jam and the third
time I went to just pump thebrake, the thought came in my
head I need to leave more spacebetween cars.
(09:43):
And I went oh my God, I need toleave more space between cars.
And I'm like, oh my God, I needto leave more space between
cars.
And I'm like, oh my God, it'sme, I'm the problem.
I'm the problem, it's me, myprogram, my program is working.
Now, when I say I'm the problem, I don't mean that in a self
deprecating way, I mean it in anempowering way.
I am the problem, so I get tobe the solution, because if
(10:05):
everybody else is the problem,I'm screwed.
So when I unpacked thatexperience after, by the way, I
got to work and sat there in theparking lot and had this
cascade of understanding aboutmy behavior.
When I got in the car to drivehome that night, I was a
completely different driver.
I drove in the right hand lane,I drove the speed limit.
If somebody pulls out in frontof me, I slow down, I speed up,
(10:27):
I sort whatever I need to do andI don't lose my mind over them
because I don't know them and Idon't want to give my serenity
to them.
This is just what's happening.
But what I started to realizewas that I had this really
deeply subconscious belief thatthere shouldn't be traffic, at
least not when I'm driving.
Meanwhile, highways were builtfor traffic, so if you're upset
(10:52):
that there's traffic on thehighway, you have victim
mentality, at least in regard todriving on the highway.
You're acting like this ishappening to me.
I'm a victim of this.
No you're not like.
You have choices, so you couldgo at another time.
You know you could do somethingdifferent.
You could just decide oh, I'mgoing to listen to audio books
and I get to have more storytime because there's traffic to
(11:17):
audiobooks and I get to havemore story time because there's
traffic sometimes.
I heard it said you're notsitting in traffic, you are
traffic.
Yes, oh my god, I'm totallystealing that.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I don't know where I got it from you are the traffic
right exactly go at a differenttime.
So like I live in Miami andlike we were just talking the
other day, like damn, like youknow, uh, five o'clock, traffic
now is from like two to eight,so like now you can't leave the
house till after eight o'clock,right, but yeah, like we do have
to adjust sometimes and then ifI leave, if I have to leave the
(11:46):
house like at three, I'm likeI'm gonna have to sit in traffic
and this you know, you're justgonna enjoy the ride and like I
didn't even realize.
But that's such a good point.
Um, yeah, and one of my goalsis don't be an asshole like
don't be the asshole.
Like let people merge in frontof you, like do what needs to be
done, lead by example, right,um, and yeah, so it doesn't have
(12:11):
to be so stressful, right, whenyou're driving.
Um, yeah, because you're theonly one in your car, so like it
could be a party.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Or it could be a party, or you could call your
friends and have friend time,because they're probably in the
car too, you know.
But you got to the point thatyou know you alluded to
something that like let's havethe expectation that there will
be traffic.
So that's another big, huge,like eye-op opening thing for me
was I found out that I hadthese wildly unrealistic
(12:40):
expectations of myself, theworld and other people.
I wanted things to be the way Iwanted them to be and getting
my expectations that's.
I have another whole list ofpodcast episodes on overcoming
realist, unrealisticexpectations because I had so
many of them and the more I seeand I see it in people all the
time because it was so me and Ijust thought that these were
(13:02):
reasonable expectations and what?
Here's what I've come to learn.
So I worked at Yale Universityand my boss I've loved her
dearly.
She drove me crazy.
She was one of the mostunreliable humans I have ever
met in my entire life.
So it is reasonable in aprofessional setting like Yale
University to expect a boss toshow up on time, do what they
(13:23):
say they're going to do, followthrough on things right.
That's reasonable.
But that particular woman showedme for 19 years that she was
not going to show up on time andwas not going to follow through
and was not going to do whatshe said she was going to do.
So it's an unreasonable excuseme, unrealistic expectation for
her.
So in the workplace, reasonable, with that particular woman,
(13:46):
unrealistic.
So you can have somethingthat's a reasonable expectation.
And you know, one of the thingsthat I learned is like that's
my expectation for myself and Iget to uphold that, but to hold,
like be mad at her for beingthe same person she was since
the day I met her, like my partin that was expecting her to be
(14:07):
different than she was.
So if it's that much of aproblem for me, then I can leave
.
But instead.
I complained about her and triedall these ways of manipulating
to try to get her to do thethings I wanted her to do.
Never worked, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It doesn't.
It doesn't work.
And you know, I had, I hadsomeone that was working for me
and I knew that she was alwaystwo hours late.
Whenever we like invited her tosomething, whenever we had
something, she was always twohours late.
So I built that in to herschedule and I said, hey, I need
you here at 10, yeah, and thenshe showed up at noon and guess
(14:43):
what?
I didn't have to be stressedout because I knew that she
would get there by noon.
And then somebody who doesn'temploy people found out and they
were like I cannot believe youlied to her.
I'm like how are you gonna getmad at me?
I didn't lie, like I, I, youknow, like I.
Well, like I, I did lie alittle bit, but to her benefit,
(15:03):
right, because I'm not gonna getmad at you for being there, not
being there at 10, when I know,no, just give you two hours
extra, so I'll.
You know, I'm Cuban, though, sowe, we work that way anyway.
And that's something that one ofmy clients teaches is think, of
course, like if you are comingup to someone and you know that
they are a certain way, and thenthey are that way with you, you
(15:27):
cannot be surprised.
That person's mean.
You say something to them,they're mean.
You have to laugh and say, ofcourse you would say that
because, right, and it helps usunderstand, it helps us not go
crazy trying to change otherpeople.
Right, we have to havegratitude.
So the next thing that I wantedto ask you about another big
(15:50):
theme of my book is practicinggratitude.
So can you tell me a little bitabout how gratitude played a
role in all of this that you'vedone so I started keeping a
gratitude journal in July of2000.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Nightly.
I have a coming on 25 yearstable practice of practicing
gratitude Now.
In the beginning I learned towrite five things for which I'm
grateful, and in the beginningit was hard to come up with five
things, even though I could dothe same thing every day if I
wanted to.
But that stretching to get to acertain number is actually
(16:30):
really important, because whenyou stretch, that means you're
seeking and seek and you shallfind.
And so what I found was that,no matter how shitty my day was,
I could always find things forwhich to be grateful.
Now, I have actually sufferedfrom a number of episodes of
pretty bad depression, so evenwhen things were just absolutely
(16:50):
horrible, I could still findthings to be grateful for, and
at times like that it was thingslike I can read, I have access
to clean water, things that Inormally would take for granted.
But like can you imagine if youcan read and what your life
would be like if you couldn't?
Like?
You would be a completelydifferent person if you couldn't
read.
Can you imagine if you had toactually, you know like lug
(17:14):
water for miles every single day?
You would be feeling a lotdifferently about the shower
that you get to take.
Like, I remember hearingsomebody tell me they were in
some remote area in SouthAmerica and they said is it true
that people in the UnitedStates bathe in drinking water?
And at first she was like no,and then she was like wait a
minute.
Actually, yes, because thewater that we, that we, bathe in
(17:36):
, is higher quality than thedrinking water that some people
get, and we get to walk into thebathroom and turn a faucet and
in a few moments the water isgoing to be hot, you know.
So I I mean I've been throughsome really devastating things
in my life and being able tokeep a gratitude journal has
(17:57):
really grounded me.
And that nightly practicereally helped me when I got into
12 step recovery, because I nowalso do a nightly inventory,
which is step 10 in 12 steprecovery.
So I'm already doing, I'malready in the journal.
And actually when I got intorecovery, nicole, my I changed
it to 10 things, for which I'mgrateful, because five was just
so easy, because my life was wasturned around so much.
(18:20):
So I think like, even if you'renot going to start a daily
gratitude practice, if you'rehaving a difficult day with your
attitude, like just write downlike A to Z and then write like
a bunch of things that you'regrateful for, or even like say,
okay, what are three things I'mgrateful for this morning.
One thing that I started doingrecently.
I just actually went off on myphone.
(18:40):
I have a reminder named fivethings that you enjoyed about
today, like in the middle of theday, rather than waiting to the
end of the day, and thensometimes I don't even remember
what those things are by thetime the day ends.
But it's a really good way,because you kind of review your
life and you start to be like oh, I'm going to put that in my
gratitude journal, I'm going toput that in my gratitude journal
(19:01):
, and so you're looking forgratitude in the world.
So it's really just been awonderful addition to my life.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It just starts popping up, like you don't even
have to consciously think aboutit, because you'll be walking
around and be like, oh my God,I'm so grateful for this.
Like I get to experience thisbridge.
Or I'm so grateful for howgreen this tree is.
Or oh my God, I'm so gratefulfor how green this tree is.
Or, oh my God, I'm so grateful,and it just it pours out of you
.
That is absolutely amazing.
I was going to ask yousomething and it left me.
(19:30):
That's fine.
I'm grateful that we're stillhere together, though.
Okay, but it'll come back up,but tell me, because I know you
had mentioned that you have afree gift, so I wanted you to
tell us a little bit about that.
Yes, mentioned that you have afree gift.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
So I wanted you to tell us a little bit about that.
Yes, yes, so it's a freeboundary building starter kit.
So I provide this for freebecause there are people who are
never going to coach andthere's just not that kind of
people.
But I want I do have a ton offree stuff, like on my website
and on um and on Instagram.
But this free starter kit,which is basically a lot, it's
it's.
It lives on my website, but, um, you sign up for it and then
(20:05):
you get um, like on the landingpage from there.
When you sign up, you get acouple of extra things and
there's an opportunity to buysomething if you want to buy
something, and then you'll getan email with all of the
resources.
So it's a ton of stuff.
So it's, you know, it'll helpyou learn how to say yes.
You really want to say no.
It will help you figure outlike people ask me like how do I
(20:26):
know what my boundaries are?
Well, you want to anchor thembased on your values.
So there's an exercise for that.
So there's a couple ofworksheets, there's an article,
there's a bunch of videos.
I have a podcast playlist ofjust my episodes about
boundaries, which is somewherein the neighborhood of 40
episodes that you can just bingelisten to as part of that.
And then I also include threemodules from my curriculum that
(20:50):
normally only my clients get.
So one of them is mindset.
I mean, I think I don't carewhat you're doing, whatever
you're doing, mindset is likethe foundation of everything.
It's about altering yourmindset and then communicating.
A lot of people are like I don'tknow what to say.
So the communications modulewill teach you a whole bunch of
tips and then some very specificscripts of things you can say
(21:13):
when you're setting boundaries.
And then there's also the kindof boundaries that for me
personally had the greatestimpact.
I call them boundaries ofself-containment.
Me personally had the greatestimpact.
I call them boundaries of selfcontainment.
So these are things we eitherneed to contain or stop doing
altogether like gossiping orlike negative self-talk and that
sort of thing.
So it's pretty comprehensive.
So they go to boundaries.
(21:35):
Darter kitcom to get it, and Ithink you're also going to link
it in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
You said right, yes, everything that she mentioned is
going to be in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
and also, let us know how can we keep in touch with
you other than that, like well,if you go there and you download
the kit, you're going to be onmy email list automatically,
which you cannot subscribe fromif you don't want to, and
there's everything about me onthe website, so you can contact
me there via email.
My favorite place to hang outon social media is on Instagram.
I'm at higher power coaching,and so just DM me there and tell
(22:06):
me that you, you know you foundme on overcome yourself because
I love finding where people youknow where they heard where
they heard me from, and lots offree stuff on Instagram too,
about boundaries.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That is amazing.
Thank you so much for offeringthat to the audience.
And before we sign off here, Iwould like to know do you have
any final tips, Like what islike the big takeaway, like the
biggest tip that you give yourclients?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.
So it's keep the focus onyourself, and I teach quite a
number of ways to do that, butto me, the most important one is
to take really good care ofyourself.
So people a lot of women thinkthat it's somehow selfish to put
themselves first and to filltheir cups so that they can pour
from the overflow.
It's actually self-preservation.
(22:52):
So selfish is not like.
Taking care of yourself is notselfish, it's self-preservation,
and you deserve to get your cupfilled first so you can pour
from the overflow rather thanfrom an empty cup.
So keep the focus on you andwhat you're doing, and it
doesn't mean that you're nothelpful to other people.
(23:12):
It means that you're pouringfrom the overflow and you have a
lot more to give other people.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I love that that's.
That's in my book too.
Like you're quoting my book,yes, yes, the same vibe.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So thank you so much for being here with us today.
This has been absolutelyincredible and be sure yes, so
be sure to check out hereverything that the gift is
going to be amazing.
The boundary setting workbookwhat was it?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I'm sorry, it's a.
It's a boundary buildingstarter kit.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Boundary building starter kit.
That's even better than what Isaid.
Um, and stay in touch with heron social media and we will see
you guys next time on the nextepisode of overcome yourself.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Bye, all right, thanks Nicole.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Thank you.
Hello there and welcome back to the next episode
of Overcome Yourself, thepodcast.
As you know, my name is Nicoleand today I'm so excited to be
here with Barb, and Barb is kindof like me.
She got in trouble for talkingtoo much I bet it was all over
your report cards when she waslittle and now we get paid to
(00:23):
talk.
We turned our weakness into oursuperpower and I'm so excited
to hear all about that.
So, barb, take it away and letus know who you are and who you
help now.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, I'd love to.
So thank you so much and I justlove your, the concept of
overcome yourself.
So I do want to address thetalking thing.
So I got in trouble.
I remember being my familystopped going to church when I
was six.
But I remember being in troublein church for talking.
And then, years later, thatsame girl I got in trouble for
talking with.
(00:52):
We sat next to each other inchorus and got in trouble and I
was always like talking too much, talking too loud, getting in
trouble.
And then, a few years ago, whenI started in the coaching
business, I went to thistraining and this guy talked
about like what did you get introuble?
And then, a few years ago, whenI started in the coaching
business, I went to thistraining and this guy talked
about like what did you get introuble for as a kid Cause it
might be your greatest gift.
And I was like, oh my God,talking.
And so I'm a podcaster, so Italk.
(01:14):
I'm a coach, so I talk and I'ma connector in the world of
entrepreneurship, so I talk andI get paid to do it.
And so like, screw everybodywho says you know you talk too
much or whatever, but I'm aboundaries coach and so, just to
tell you, like how thathappened, I I don't know if
(01:38):
you've ever heard of the termcodependence.
I had not heard of that term,nicole, until I hit a
codependent bottom in 2015 atthe age of 52.
So a codependent person isbasically someone who's focused
on everything outside themselves.
So other people what are theydoing?
Not doing Like, what does thesituation need?
What does the organization need?
What does the person need?
They neglect themselves.
(02:00):
The classic codependent is in arelationship with an addict or
an alcoholic.
So that could be a romantic,could be their, you know, the
parent of an adult child, itcould be a sibling or something.
But not everybody that'scodependent is in such a
relationship.
And I had never even heard thatword, despite starting therapy
at 15, being introduced toself-help genre when I was like
(02:22):
22, 23, like seminars andretreats and works, like you
just name it.
I did all the things and I gotinto 12-step recovery for
codependence.
I'm now in a couple of otherprograms for other things which
you know, maybe we'll get to ornot, but I just didn't even know
that it was a thing and my lifewas absolutely transformed from
(02:45):
12 step recovery and I learnedso, so, so many things in
recovery, but because my corewound is codependence, learning
how to build healthy boundarieswas such a game changer for me,
partly because it's the antidoteto building I mean, it's the
antidote to codependence, but,um, partly because boundaries
(03:08):
permeate every area of your life.
So there I can.
You know like I mostly helppeople that have difficult
relationships, whether at workor at home, or, you know, family
of origin or something likethat.
But, um, you know people uh,have issues with boundaries,
with you know no-transcriptaround them.
(03:54):
It changes things.
And then, a couple years intorecovery, I got laid off from
Yale and I found my way into theworld of startups and
innovation and entrepreneurshipin New Haven and at Yale, and I
started my own business.
I very quickly started mypodcast, which is called
Fragmented to Whole Life Lessonsfrom 12 Step Recovery, and I
(04:14):
started it, nicole, with novision whatsoever.
I had no, I stumbled my wayhere.
I now have 304 episodes right,so I had no idea what I was
doing.
304 episodes right, so I had noidea what I was doing.
And I started it because Ifound all this wisdom in
recovery that I just was notlearning elsewhere and it didn't
occur to me that it would haveanything to do with my business.
(04:35):
It's now the number one way Iget clients.
I will say Google is starting tolike ramp up in terms of people
finding me from Google and Ijust started sort of generally
coaching and after a coupleyears realized you really need
to have a niche and it just madesense for me to be a boundaries
coach because of my livedexperience 50 something years of
(04:57):
no boundaries and having suchhealthy boundaries now that now
I coach people.
So what happened for me, nicole, is like I learned how to build
healthy boundaries, so thissort of meandering, haphazard
path through the 12 steprecovery programs I was in.
It's not like someone sat medown and was like here we're
going to build boundaries now,barb, that's not what happened.
So after I got a handle on, I'mlike these boundaries are
(05:19):
amazing.
I started reading about themand when I would read about them
it like retroactively helped meunderstand like what happened.
And as I was reading them Iwould do these drawings to
visually depict the principles Iwas understanding.
And those drawings turned intohandouts which turned into a
workbook which is now thebackbone of my boundaries
coaching program.
(05:39):
So I have a 12 week or 12 module, which is a 12 week multimedia
curriculum that I use Like Iteach my clients.
So if they like structure, thisis the program for them and the
transformations I've been ableto have people help people have
have been incredible.
So my, um, my, my targetaudience are professional women
(06:02):
who say yes when they reallywant to say no and who neglect
themselves because they're sofocused on others.
Because that was me, so I wantto help former me.
So I mean I could go on.
I'm going to stop there becauseit is your podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
No, no, no, no.
This is all about you.
We want to know about you andthis is all fantastic.
Learning to say no, like yousaid.
It permeates every area of ourlife, like with food, with our
relationships, with our kids,and I love the example that you
gave as a leader in yourworkplace, how that had that
ripple effect.
(06:37):
And boundaries are healthy,right.
So, yeah, please tell me alittle bit more.
I would love to know um thestory of you overcoming yourself
to get to this point if youwant to talk to.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I think the way that I I don't know that I
would have used that language,but I, when I read overcome
yourself, I'm like, oh my god,that's essentially what I did.
So I am a terriblyintrospective person.
I'd read seven gajillionself-help books, been in therapy
forever, did all work, and Igot into 12-step recovery and
the first like two to threeyears I found out just volumes
(07:09):
about myself that I wascompletely blind to and I was
like why was I paying for allthat therapy if literally none
of this stuff?
So I think for me the numberone paradigm shift of my
recovery was coming out ofvictim mentality.
So this is a really goodexample of coming getting over
myself.
So I'm not the quintessentiallike woe is me, the world is
(07:32):
against me, kind of victim.
I always felt like a powerfulwoman of agency.
My victim mentality was way moresubtle than that.
So the way that I first startedto see it was when I did a
relationship inventory in12-step recovery.
I thought I happen to date men.
So, like every man on my list,I was like, well, if he would
just xyz or he would fill in theblank, then everything would be
(07:54):
okay.
And I started to realize, wait,that's me acting like I have
nothing to do with the status ofany of my relationships and it
was like whoa.
And then, once I saw that inthe romance department, I
started to realize it was thesame with my friendships, with
my colleagues, with my family,and I think I probably have like
nine episodes now on victimmentality, because every time
(08:17):
another layer of that mentalitycomes off, I do an episode about
it because it's insidious, it'sa mentality and it comes from
somewhere.
Like if you have victimmentality, you've probably been
victimized in some way, shape orform, but you don't have to
live with that mentality.
And so if you're saying if onlya lot, if you blame a lot, if
(08:39):
you complain a lot like I alwaysthought I was a really positive
, optimistic person and I did abunch of work in my late 20s to
clean up negative self talk,when I got in recovery it was
like whoa, there was thismountain of negativity, so
ruminating about the past,catastrophizing about the future
(08:59):
, blaming other people andcomplaining about stuff.
I literally like swam in thatstuff and so that's a huge way
that I got over myself insteadof thinking like things were
happening at me or to me,realizing I actually have
choices here.
And I want to give you like aneveryday example that I bet a
(09:20):
lot of people can identify with,and that is when you're driving
in traffic a lot of people canidentify with, and that is when
you're driving in traffic.
So a big, huge like awakening Ihad was one day.
My first couple of months, ormaybe three months or so in
recovery, I'm on my way to workin a traffic jam and the third
time I went to just pump thebrake, the thought came in my
head I need to leave more spacebetween cars.
(09:43):
And I went oh my God, I need toleave more space between cars.
And I'm like, oh my God, I needto leave more space between
cars.
And I'm like, oh my God, it'sme, I'm the problem.
I'm the problem, it's me, myprogram, my program is working.
Now, when I say I'm the problem, I don't mean that in a self
deprecating way, I mean it in anempowering way.
I am the problem, so I get tobe the solution, because if
(10:05):
everybody else is the problem,I'm screwed.
So when I unpacked thatexperience after, by the way, I
got to work and sat there in theparking lot and had this
cascade of understanding aboutmy behavior.
When I got in the car to drivehome that night, I was a
completely different driver.
I drove in the right hand lane,I drove the speed limit.
If somebody pulls out in frontof me, I slow down, I speed up,
(10:27):
I sort whatever I need to do andI don't lose my mind over them
because I don't know them and Idon't want to give my serenity
to them.
This is just what's happening.
But what I started to realizewas that I had this really
deeply subconscious belief thatthere shouldn't be traffic, at
least not when I'm driving.
Meanwhile, highways were builtfor traffic, so if you're upset
(10:52):
that there's traffic on thehighway, you have victim
mentality, at least in regard todriving on the highway.
You're acting like this ishappening to me.
I'm a victim of this.
No you're not like.
You have choices, so you couldgo at another time.
You know you could do somethingdifferent.
You could just decide oh, I'mgoing to listen to audio books
and I get to have more storytime because there's traffic to
(11:17):
audiobooks and I get to havemore story time because there's
traffic sometimes.
I heard it said you're notsitting in traffic, you are
traffic.
Yes, oh my god, I'm totallystealing that.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I don't know where I got it from you are the traffic
right exactly go at a differenttime.
So like I live in Miami andlike we were just talking the
other day, like damn, like youknow, uh, five o'clock, traffic
now is from like two to eight,so like now you can't leave the
house till after eight o'clock,right, but yeah, like we do have
to adjust sometimes and then ifI leave, if I have to leave the
(11:46):
house like at three, I'm likeI'm gonna have to sit in traffic
and this you know, you're justgonna enjoy the ride and like I
didn't even realize.
But that's such a good point.
Um, yeah, and one of my goalsis don't be an asshole like
don't be the asshole.
Like let people merge in frontof you, like do what needs to be
done, lead by example, right,um, and yeah, so it doesn't have
(12:11):
to be so stressful, right, whenyou're driving.
Um, yeah, because you're theonly one in your car, so like it
could be a party.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Or it could be a party, or you could call your
friends and have friend time,because they're probably in the
car too, you know.
But you got to the point thatyou know you alluded to
something that like let's havethe expectation that there will
be traffic.
So that's another big, huge,like eye-op opening thing for me
was I found out that I hadthese wildly unrealistic
(12:40):
expectations of myself, theworld and other people.
I wanted things to be the way Iwanted them to be and getting
my expectations that's.
I have another whole list ofpodcast episodes on overcoming
realist, unrealisticexpectations because I had so
many of them and the more I seeand I see it in people all the
time because it was so me and Ijust thought that these were
(13:02):
reasonable expectations and what?
Here's what I've come to learn.
So I worked at Yale Universityand my boss I've loved her
dearly.
She drove me crazy.
She was one of the mostunreliable humans I have ever
met in my entire life.
So it is reasonable in aprofessional setting like Yale
University to expect a boss toshow up on time, do what they
(13:23):
say they're going to do, followthrough on things right.
That's reasonable.
But that particular woman showedme for 19 years that she was
not going to show up on time andwas not going to follow through
and was not going to do whatshe said she was going to do.
So it's an unreasonable excuseme, unrealistic expectation for
her.
So in the workplace, reasonable, with that particular woman,
(13:46):
unrealistic.
So you can have somethingthat's a reasonable expectation.
And you know, one of the thingsthat I learned is like that's
my expectation for myself and Iget to uphold that, but to hold,
like be mad at her for beingthe same person she was since
the day I met her, like my partin that was expecting her to be
(14:07):
different than she was.
So if it's that much of aproblem for me, then I can leave
.
But instead.
I complained about her and triedall these ways of manipulating
to try to get her to do thethings I wanted her to do.
Never worked, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It doesn't.
It doesn't work.
And you know, I had, I hadsomeone that was working for me
and I knew that she was alwaystwo hours late.
Whenever we like invited her tosomething, whenever we had
something, she was always twohours late.
So I built that in to herschedule and I said, hey, I need
you here at 10, yeah, and thenshe showed up at noon and guess
(14:43):
what?
I didn't have to be stressedout because I knew that she
would get there by noon.
And then somebody who doesn'temploy people found out and they
were like I cannot believe youlied to her.
I'm like how are you gonna getmad at me?
I didn't lie, like I, I, youknow, like I.
Well, like I, I did lie alittle bit, but to her benefit,
(15:03):
right, because I'm not gonna getmad at you for being there, not
being there at 10, when I know,no, just give you two hours
extra, so I'll.
You know, I'm Cuban, though, sowe, we work that way anyway.
And that's something that one ofmy clients teaches is think, of
course, like if you are comingup to someone and you know that
they are a certain way, and thenthey are that way with you, you
(15:27):
cannot be surprised.
That person's mean.
You say something to them,they're mean.
You have to laugh and say, ofcourse you would say that
because, right, and it helps usunderstand, it helps us not go
crazy trying to change otherpeople.
Right, we have to havegratitude.
So the next thing that I wantedto ask you about another big
(15:50):
theme of my book is practicinggratitude.
So can you tell me a little bitabout how gratitude played a
role in all of this that you'vedone so I started keeping a
gratitude journal in July of2000.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Nightly.
I have a coming on 25 yearstable practice of practicing
gratitude Now.
In the beginning I learned towrite five things for which I'm
grateful, and in the beginningit was hard to come up with five
things, even though I could dothe same thing every day if I
wanted to.
But that stretching to get to acertain number is actually
(16:30):
really important, because whenyou stretch, that means you're
seeking and seek and you shallfind.
And so what I found was that,no matter how shitty my day was,
I could always find things forwhich to be grateful.
Now, I have actually sufferedfrom a number of episodes of
pretty bad depression, so evenwhen things were just absolutely
(16:50):
horrible, I could still findthings to be grateful for, and
at times like that it was thingslike I can read, I have access
to clean water, things that Inormally would take for granted.
But like can you imagine if youcan read and what your life
would be like if you couldn't?
Like?
You would be a completelydifferent person if you couldn't
read.
Can you imagine if you had toactually, you know like lug
(17:14):
water for miles every single day?
You would be feeling a lotdifferently about the shower
that you get to take.
Like, I remember hearingsomebody tell me they were in
some remote area in SouthAmerica and they said is it true
that people in the UnitedStates bathe in drinking water?
And at first she was like no,and then she was like wait a
minute.
Actually, yes, because thewater that we, that we, bathe in
(17:36):
, is higher quality than thedrinking water that some people
get, and we get to walk into thebathroom and turn a faucet and
in a few moments the water isgoing to be hot, you know.
So I I mean I've been throughsome really devastating things
in my life and being able tokeep a gratitude journal has
(17:57):
really grounded me.
And that nightly practicereally helped me when I got into
12 step recovery, because I nowalso do a nightly inventory,
which is step 10 in 12 steprecovery.
So I'm already doing, I'malready in the journal.
And actually when I got intorecovery, nicole, my I changed
it to 10 things, for which I'mgrateful, because five was just
so easy, because my life was wasturned around so much.
(18:20):
So I think like, even if you'renot going to start a daily
gratitude practice, if you'rehaving a difficult day with your
attitude, like just write downlike A to Z and then write like
a bunch of things that you'regrateful for, or even like say,
okay, what are three things I'mgrateful for this morning.
One thing that I started doingrecently.
I just actually went off on myphone.
(18:40):
I have a reminder named fivethings that you enjoyed about
today, like in the middle of theday, rather than waiting to the
end of the day, and thensometimes I don't even remember
what those things are by thetime the day ends.
But it's a really good way,because you kind of review your
life and you start to be like oh, I'm going to put that in my
gratitude journal, I'm going toput that in my gratitude journal
(19:01):
, and so you're looking forgratitude in the world.
So it's really just been awonderful addition to my life.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It just starts popping up, like you don't even
have to consciously think aboutit, because you'll be walking
around and be like, oh my God,I'm so grateful for this.
Like I get to experience thisbridge.
Or I'm so grateful for howgreen this tree is.
Or oh my God, I'm so gratefulfor how green this tree is.
Or, oh my God, I'm so grateful,and it just it pours out of you
.
That is absolutely amazing.
I was going to ask yousomething and it left me.
(19:30):
That's fine.
I'm grateful that we're stillhere together, though.
Okay, but it'll come back up,but tell me, because I know you
had mentioned that you have afree gift, so I wanted you to
tell us a little bit about that.
Yes, mentioned that you have afree gift.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
So I wanted you to tell us a little bit about that.
Yes, yes, so it's a freeboundary building starter kit.
So I provide this for freebecause there are people who are
never going to coach andthere's just not that kind of
people.
But I want I do have a ton offree stuff, like on my website
and on um and on Instagram.
But this free starter kit,which is basically a lot, it's
it's.
It lives on my website, but, um, you sign up for it and then
(20:05):
you get um, like on the landingpage from there.
When you sign up, you get acouple of extra things and
there's an opportunity to buysomething if you want to buy
something, and then you'll getan email with all of the
resources.
So it's a ton of stuff.
So it's, you know, it'll helpyou learn how to say yes.
You really want to say no.
It will help you figure outlike people ask me like how do I
(20:26):
know what my boundaries are?
Well, you want to anchor thembased on your values.
So there's an exercise for that.
So there's a couple ofworksheets, there's an article,
there's a bunch of videos.
I have a podcast playlist ofjust my episodes about
boundaries, which is somewherein the neighborhood of 40
episodes that you can just bingelisten to as part of that.
And then I also include threemodules from my curriculum that
(20:50):
normally only my clients get.
So one of them is mindset.
I mean, I think I don't carewhat you're doing, whatever
you're doing, mindset is likethe foundation of everything.
It's about altering yourmindset and then communicating.
A lot of people are like I don'tknow what to say.
So the communications modulewill teach you a whole bunch of
tips and then some very specificscripts of things you can say
(21:13):
when you're setting boundaries.
And then there's also the kindof boundaries that for me
personally had the greatestimpact.
I call them boundaries ofself-containment.
Me personally had the greatestimpact.
I call them boundaries of selfcontainment.
So these are things we eitherneed to contain or stop doing
altogether like gossiping orlike negative self-talk and that
sort of thing.
So it's pretty comprehensive.
So they go to boundaries.
(21:35):
Darter kitcom to get it, and Ithink you're also going to link
it in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
You said right, yes, everything that she mentioned is
going to be in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
and also, let us know how can we keep in touch with
you other than that, like well,if you go there and you download
the kit, you're going to be onmy email list automatically,
which you cannot subscribe fromif you don't want to, and
there's everything about me onthe website, so you can contact
me there via email.
My favorite place to hang outon social media is on Instagram.
I'm at higher power coaching,and so just DM me there and tell
(22:06):
me that you, you know you foundme on overcome yourself because
I love finding where people youknow where they heard where
they heard me from, and lots offree stuff on Instagram too,
about boundaries.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That is amazing.
Thank you so much for offeringthat to the audience.
And before we sign off here, Iwould like to know do you have
any final tips, Like what islike the big takeaway, like the
biggest tip that you give yourclients?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.
So it's keep the focus onyourself, and I teach quite a
number of ways to do that, butto me, the most important one is
to take really good care ofyourself.
So people a lot of women thinkthat it's somehow selfish to put
themselves first and to filltheir cups so that they can pour
from the overflow.
It's actually self-preservation.
(22:52):
So selfish is not like.
Taking care of yourself is notselfish, it's self-preservation,
and you deserve to get your cupfilled first so you can pour
from the overflow rather thanfrom an empty cup.
So keep the focus on you andwhat you're doing, and it
doesn't mean that you're nothelpful to other people.
(23:12):
It means that you're pouringfrom the overflow and you have a
lot more to give other people.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I love that that's.
That's in my book too.
Like you're quoting my book,yes, yes, the same vibe.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So thank you so much for being here with us today.
This has been absolutelyincredible and be sure yes, so
be sure to check out hereverything that the gift is
going to be amazing.
The boundary setting workbookwhat was it?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I'm sorry, it's a.
It's a boundary buildingstarter kit.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Boundary building starter kit.
That's even better than what Isaid.
Um, and stay in touch with heron social media and we will see
you guys next time on the nextepisode of overcome yourself.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Bye, all right, thanks Nicole.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Thank you.
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