Have you ever wished you could stay calm and collected during workplace conflict instead of feeling overwhelmed and reactive? My guest today, leadership consultant Katie Calagui can help.
Whether you're navigating tough conversations at work, feeling drained in your leadership role, or struggling to balance your energy between your job and home life, this episode offers practical tools to help you lead with clarity and confidence. Mindfulness isn’t just a buzzword—it’s a real solution to everyday leadership stressors and interpersonal challenges.
In this episode, you will:
- Learn how simple mindfulness techniques can instantly shift how you respond to stress and conflict at work.
- Discover why managing your energy—not just your time—is the secret to staying present and productive in all areas of life.
- Gain actionable strategies to improve workplace relationships, reduce emotional overwhelm, and enhance your overall quality of life.
Press play now to uncover real-world tips you can use today to feel more grounded, effective, and empowered in both your work and personal life.
Featured on the podcast
Send Me a Message - Have a question, comment, or just want to say hi? Message me here, I'd love to chat!
Work With Me - Interested in working with me 1-on-1, taking a class, or joining one of my coaching groups? Message me here to get the scoop.
Want More? - If you love the content of this podcast, you'll love our Simple Sunday newsletter too. When you sign up, you’ll receive a simple dose of inspiration, practical tips, and a little fun—designed to help you start your week with simplicity and intention. Sign up here
Life can be overwhelming, but on this podcast, you'll discover practical strategies to overcome overwhelm, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk, manage time effectively, set boundaries, and stay productive in high-stress jobs—all while learning how to say no and prioritize self-care on the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast.
Thank you for listening! If you love the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review. 💗
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie Calagui (00:00):
when we interact with others, it's not just our
brain that gets activated, it'sour emotions that get activated.
Michelle Gauthier (00:09):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences, andin each episode you'll get a
strategy to bring more calm,ease and relaxation to your life
(00:33):
.
Hi, friend, thanks for joiningtoday.
If you're looking for a betterway to handle stress in the
workplace, or you're strugglingwith interpersonal challenges at
home or at work, or justfeeling overwhelmed in your
leadership role, today's episodeis for you.
My guest, Katie Calagui, is aleadership coach with a
(00:54):
background as chief peopleofficer, and when you listen to
the episode today, you'lldiscover why mindfulness is the
key to being a strong leader,not only at work, but also in
the rest of your life.
She also gives us great tips onhow to handle workplace
conflict in a way that actuallyimproves relationships and
productivity instead of makingthings worse.
(01:14):
And then, finally, she sharesthe power of managing your
energy, not just your time, sothat you can stay present and
engaged at work and at home.
A lot of times, we use all ofour energy at work and have
nothing left for home.
She's got a great ability tomake these concepts really
practical and actionable, so I'mconfident you'll walk away
(01:34):
feeling good with some goodstrategies you can use
immediately.
Let's dive in.
Hi, katie, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Hi, michelle, so great to behere.
Yes, I'm so glad to have you.
I think this is going to be agreat podcast for our listeners,
because we do have so manypeople in leadership who are
listening.
And the reason why I invitedKatie to be on today is because
(01:57):
she's a leadership coach.
She has previously been chiefpeople officer and had all kinds
of experience in helpingleaders grow, and I love that.
Her spin on it is a lot ofmindfulness and the way that you
think of mindfulness as thefirst step to being a good
leader.
So I wanted to have you ontoday because I think you can
(02:18):
help our overwhelmed workingwomen feel less overwhelmed and
less stressed, even if they havea job that might take a lot out
of them.
So do you want to tell us alittle bit about how you got
into mindfulness?
Because you started off infinancial services, which isn't
necessarily thought of as amindful career.
So do you want to just tell usa little bit about how you got
(02:39):
into it and then what you teachyour clients and then what you
teach your clients.
Katie Calagui (02:48):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah.
So I started working with myfirst coach 15 years ago.
So I was working for a familybusiness, my father's firm.
I was asked to step into aleadership role.
It's a pretty big jump, givenwhere I was in my career.
They had actually never hadkind of a professional leader of
the firm yet.
It was a very entrepreneurialfirm at that point.
And so I first thing I said isI need a coach to kind of help
me navigate this.
(03:08):
And so my first coach I everhad she was trained.
I mean, she had a very longcorporate life but had done a
lot of training in mindfulnessand that was kind of the
foundation of a lot of the workthat we did and the tools around
mindfulness that she taught me.
I think what stood out and why Iwas kind of an instant believer
and have incorporated that intoall of my leadership going
(03:29):
forward, is that, you know, theimpact was so immediate and it
was so large, like these verysmall shifts that mindfulness
can provide us just made a hugeimpact into how I navigated
whatever challenge was facing me.
So that's where I got introducedto it and, like I said, as a
result.
I just really see it as thisfoundational piece to leadership
(03:52):
, because we think about thechallenges that come up in
leadership.
It's not so much the practicalproblems we have to solve Like
we're all smart, intelligentpeople, like our brains can
figure out the business side ofstuff what's challenging and
overwhelming are theinterpersonal interactions, and
that's because we're allindividual beings with our own
(04:14):
stories and histories andpersonalities, and when we
interact with others, it's notjust our brain that gets
activated, it's our emotionsthat get activated, and so if we
don't have a way to work withour emotion, our interactions at
work become more challenging.
And so that's really what kindof led me down this path of like
okay, how do I use thesemindfulness tools in leadership?
Michelle Gauthier (04:37):
Okay, I love that.
So I just want to highlightsomething that you just said,
because that felt like a reallight bulb to me.
So, if we think about all thethings that we have to do in a
job, what I hear you saying isthe actual part of the job.
The function of the job is theeasier part than interacting
with all the people, and, atleast in all of my corporate
(04:58):
roles, interacting with peoplewas like 90% of my job.
It's very rare that we have ajob these days where you're just
like sitting in an office doingyour exact thing.
Even if you have a job likebeing an accountant, you still
have to, you know, communicatewith everybody else around you.
So I love that you can helppeople feel better in that area.
Do you have specific tips?
Katie Calagui (05:22):
Yeah, well, I think one of the first things
that my coach taught me that wasone of those kind of quick,
high impact things was, you know, when I would get into
discussions and we were problemsolving and emotions were
getting activated.
You know, not only was Iworking in a leadership team,
but with family, so emotionswere even more heightened.
You know, if I felt defensivein a meeting or I felt angry or
(05:47):
frustrated, I would kind of gohome and, you know, being a very
self-improvement driven person,I would try to figure out, like
how do I not get frustrated?
Like what is wrong with me forgetting frustrated?
I need to, like, not getemotional.
And I was doing all this work,trying to figure out how to not
be emotional, and my coachexplained to me that, like you
can't not feel emotion, like wedon't have that ability, it's an
(06:10):
innate thing that happens, andso trying to figure out how to
make it not happen or how totalk myself out of it or, even
worse, criticize myself forhaving the emotion, was really
counterproductive.
So what I needed to do insteadwas I needed to start developing
a language to identify theemotion I was having and
learning how to tolerate it,understand it and move through
(06:33):
it, because actually the betterthat you can tolerate it and
work through it, the faster youcan move on from it.
It's actually kind ofcounterintuitive that that was
what I needed to learn, asopposed to trying to figure out
how to not be emotional, becausethat wasn't going to happen.
Michelle Gauthier (06:49):
Yes, oh my gosh, that's so good.
I too.
If there would have been like abox you could check and be like
, feel no emotions between thehours of eight and six, I would
have been like I'm in.
That sounds good.
And I also think, especially Idon't know if you experienced
this, but especially as a woman,I was like I can never cry at
work.
I will be seen in such a badlight if I ever cry, I have to
(07:10):
be nice.
I can't ever get mad.
I had all these kind of rulesfor myself, so I love that.
So, when you're teaching thisstuff, because I know you work
with women, you work with mentoo, right?
Oh yeah.
Katie Calagui (07:25):
Actually, I've probably worked with more men in
the space that I'm in, I meanI'm in financial services.
So I've definitely worked withboth, for sure.
Michelle Gauthier (07:32):
Yeah, and do you see, is there a difference
between the amount of emotionthat people are willing to feel
or like?
Does anyone take to this lessonbetter than others?
Or do you see that once peoplelearn how to just quickly be
like, ok, I'm angry and I'mgoing to name it and feel it and
allow that, does it seem towork for anybody?
Katie Calagui (07:51):
Well, it's funny you bring up the being a woman
part, because I feel like wekind of get labeled emotional.
But I'll never forget being inI think at the time it was a cab
, not an Uber with one of mymale bosses was very frustrated
with another woman on the teamand he was very angry and he was
saying how she's just soemotional and she can't get her
(08:13):
emotions under control.
And I'm just sitting therethinking, like you know, anger
is an emotion and like he andthat mom, that was being very
emotional.
Michelle Gauthier (08:21):
Yes, yes, how ironic.
But like it seems that thereare emotions that are acceptable
by gender, like women, we'renot supposed to get mad or we
get labeled as you know, bitches.
If men are mad there it's fine,you know, and maybe we're
allowed to cry and they're notallowed, or whatever it is.
So that's funny, though that'sa great thing to point out.
Katie Calagui (08:42):
Oh, my goodness.
Michelle Gauthier (08:43):
Well, well, I want to hear about, like, how
you help your clients with this,but I also, as a coach myself,
I totally believe that in orderfor me to teach anybody anything
, I have to embody it as well.
So before you tell me how youhelp your clients, tell me how
you help yourself.
How do you use this in yourdaily life?
Katie Calagui (09:04):
Yeah.
So I always, you know, kind ofthink of it as mindfulness is
like my main toolbox right, Likewe, just as we go through life.
We kind of our job is toassemble a toolbox to navigate
challenges, because thechallenge is always going to be
there.
We're always going to, you know, slip into our usual reactions.
It's just how quickly can weget into our toolbox toolbox.
(09:27):
And so for me it's like, as I'mmoving through my weeks and my
months, I feel like there's kindof three levels.
I'm either frustrated, dealingwith a conflict, or I have an
issue.
If that's compounding, then I'min overwhelm, and if that's
getting really bad, I findmyself in anxiety, and
mindfulness can help me at anyof those stages.
The sooner I catch it thebetter.
But you know, the first toolbeing like just checking in with
what I'm experiencing and beingpresent with that and
(09:49):
tolerating it, like I said.
And sometimes the body has totell us before the mind can.
So you know, if I'm feelinguneasy and worked up, I might
not know what the emotion is yet.
So it's like, okay, is my chesttight?
Is my belly hurting?
Like, am I breathing heavy?
Like sometimes our body willclue us in first.
So if I can't really get thewords to what I'm experiencing,
(10:09):
I first try to get some cluesfrom what my body is telling me
and that just starts to slowdown, kind of that flight or
fight reaction, and then I kindof think about OK, what am I
experiencing?
If I can label the emotion and Ican kind of allow it, then I
can start to work with it andfigure out, okay, where do I
want to go from here?
What can I do?
That's within my control.
You know, one of the cores ofmindfulness is being present,
(10:33):
and so we know that if we'reworrying about the future or
we're mulling over something inthe past, we're departing from
the present and that's going tocreate more overwhelm and
anxiety.
So can I bring myself back tothis moment Like what's actually
happening now?
Am I okay in this moment?
Are?
Can I bring myself back to thismoment Like what's actually
happening now?
Am I okay in this moment?
Are these things I'm thinkinghave they actually happened or
am I just worried that they'regoing to happen?
So it's just kind of bringingme back to sort of the wiser
(10:56):
parts of myself, as opposed tothe kind of primitive, reactive,
self-protective parts of myself.
Michelle Gauthier (11:02):
Yes, yes, so it sounds like and it's very
similar to what you said aboutat the beginning too, just about
emotions being part of everydaylife.
So I love that.
You just know, no matter howadvanced you get in mindfulness
and I will say me too to thisthat stuff still comes up, you
still get upset, you still getfrustrated, you still get
overwhelmed.
But just noticing it and askingyourself questions and slowing
(11:25):
down really seems to work foryou and, I'm sure, for all of
your clients.
So how do you help your clientsLike, do you work with a big
group?
Do you work with peopleone-on-one?
And then my follow-on questionto that is what's the impact?
I'm thinking of you going intoan organization where they
haven't learned anything aboutmindfulness and then suddenly
(11:46):
all the leaders are trained andable to be much more mindful
about things.
What's the impact on thebusiness when you do something
like that?
Katie Calagui (11:55):
Yeah, well, you know, I think like one of the
biggest values of the work thatI do and other coaches and
consultants is I'm alwaysstriving to improve quality of
life.
So it's like you know, yes,there's things we're going to do
that make the business better,certainly, but I want people to
experience their work life in abetter way, and so I think the
biggest part of that that I helpteams with is how to navigate
(12:19):
conflict well, and so I do thatone-on-one.
So most of my executive teamsthat I coach, I coach the whole
team as a group.
So I'll facilitate meetings andwe'll work together as a group,
and then I'll often coach themone-on-one individually, and so
we'll do some work one-on-oneand then we'll do some work as a
group.
One of the things I do withgroups generally, like a kickoff
retreat or one of our off sitesor even in a regular meeting,
(12:41):
is I print out a page with wordsof emotions on it, because,
interestingly enough, we don'tactually know how to label a lot
of emotions and we kind ofmislabel things in a lot of ways
, like, instead of saying I feelhurt, we're used to saying that
person was a jerk.
You know, it's always veryexternal, so just giving
language so that people in themoment can start learning how to
(13:03):
say hey, I feel confused rightnow, or I'm feeling stuck, or
I'm feeling hurt.
If something is reallyescalated, I try to help us.
You know, work through like howdo we communicate what we're
experiencing versus going on theattack or getting defensive,
which is what typically happenswhen we're finding ourself in
conflict.
And you know, good process,also with a group, helps as well
(13:26):
.
So if we have a good structurefor what we're doing, we have
good, clear objectives, thatkind of also helps them or the
conflict.
And then one I really debriefingwith individuals on.
You know what happened, whatwas your experience, and let's
talk through that.
And so you know we'll kind ofgenerally start from a very
self-protective place and we'llstart weaving these stories
(13:48):
around.
You know that person was meanto me or out of line and this is
not going to work and I justgive up.
And you know, our kind ofself-protective narratives start
getting very, very loud and youknow it's kind of our ego
talking a little bit.
And so if I can help one-on-onewith clients kind of refocus on
well, what do we know for sure?
What are the facts of whathappened?
(14:09):
What were you experiencing?
Did you feel hurt?
Did you feel scared?
Did you feel what was going onwith you?
So someone might start with like, well, I'm angry because Joe is
a jerk and if we let that storyplay out, we go down a path of
how he's wrong and I'm right andI can't work with him and all
that, and then we actually startto abandon ourselves and we're
(14:31):
operating from a place ofsurvival versus wisdom.
So instead, if we can say, hey,I was hurt because I felt
attacked in that meeting and nowI'm feeling really insecure
about my idea and you know,maybe I got something wrong.
And so if we can really get tothe heart of what's going on
with you, then we can talk aboutokay, how do you want to
respond in a way that feelsauthentic to you.
(14:53):
Maybe it's I need to go back toJoe and set some boundaries,
like, hey, joe, it's okay to notlike my idea, but it's not okay
to raise your voice at me.
Or maybe I need to find outwhat's going on with Joe,
because that was really unusualand he doesn't usually act that
way.
So is there something going onwith him that I don't know about
?
But, like, our defensivebehaviors are not going to lead
us to places that are true toourself, and so if we can get
(15:15):
back to you know, kind of movingback into that rational side of
how we want to handle things,then we can act in ways that are
more aligned with our wisestself.
Michelle Gauthier (15:25):
I love that.
I love it so much.
And if I think about therepercussions of that, let's say
you teach someone that skill atwork and they've just reduced
by a huge amount the number ofhours that it's going to take to
solve that problem because theycan just talk to the person
instead of being mad anddefensive and them arguing.
And then I'm picturing thatperson going home and being able
(15:46):
to use those same skills withtheir wife or husband or partner
, kids or anything.
I mean just it feels like onceyou teach them that as a
leadership skill, they can justtake that everywhere in life
with them.
I love that.
Yeah, 100%.
Okay, that's awesome.
So I feel like you've given usalready a lot of great tips.
(16:07):
But if there's one thing thatyou would want to tell someone
who's like I don't do anythingmindfulness wise ever, what's
the number one thing that youwould say to them?
Katie Calagui (16:19):
to just get started, Well, the easiest thing
is always to breathe I thinkwe've all heard about this and
it doesn't have to be like aisolated meditation, breathing
on a cushion, like just doingfour counts in holding it, four
counts out slow that kind ofreactive, protective,
(16:46):
self-defensive reactions, right.
So if we can just slow down alittle bit, and then the second
thing would just be to likecheck in with your body, like if
that's all you can do in themoment is just kind of start to
notice your body Cause again,that gets you out of like your
head spinning and more groundedand it just kind of slows that
reaction.
So, just learning to take acouple of breaths, you can do
(17:08):
that anywhere you know.
If we have time to pick up ourphone and scroll for two minutes
, we can stop and just breathefor two minutes and that can
really start to kind of buildthose neuropathways that help us
identify what's going on in ourexperience faster.
Michelle Gauthier (17:23):
So that's easy to start.
I love that because you can doit without anybody else knowing.
You know you can count yourbreaths while you're sitting in
a meeting if you need to, andyou can check with your body and
see.
You know where do I feeluncomfortable while you're with
other people or not.
That's great.
I love it.
Okay, awesome, all right, thankyou.
(17:44):
Those have been all great tips.
So now I'm going to ask you thetwo questions that I ask
everybody who comes on the show.
So the first one is what's onething that you can do to
instantly feel more calm?
Is it the square breathing?
Did you just give us thatanswer?
Katie Calagui (18:00):
No, I wish I was.
Yes, I should do that.
But I think what I have foundis I just have to let go, like I
noticed this relationship ofthe more overwhelmed I feel, the
more controlling I get, themore I start to control things.
So if I can just let go andkind of let things be and sort
of watch the outcome happenwithout trying to control it,
(18:23):
that instantly can bring myoverwhelm down.
Michelle Gauthier (18:26):
That's so good.
I think you're the one whotaught me this.
That said, when women start tofeel stressed, they go towards
control and men go towards whatis anger.
That's what I thought.
I didn't want to throw themunder the bus, but that's it
Okay.
That resonates for me big time,like when I start to feel
stressed and out of control, Ijust want to control things that
(18:47):
aren't in my control.
So I love that.
Okay.
So the answer is let go.
And then what's something thatyou consistently do in your life
that enables you to do less?
Katie Calagui (18:58):
Well, I've become very fierce about managing my
energy.
Now there's always like manageyour time, it's like whatever
the day is going to be what itis, but I got really I don't
know.
Part of being a working mom waslike I had to manage my energy
and so it was like how much timeam I going to give or energy am
I going to give to this problem, for example?
(19:18):
Or you know this drama thathappened Am I going to lose
myself in this for 20 minutesand ruminate, or am I going to
preserve my energy so I can walkin the door and feel more
peaceful after work and enjoy mykids?
I think just being very mindfulof my energy and very, very
protective of it.
Michelle Gauthier (19:35):
I love that.
That's such a great answer.
And just so you listeners know,katie is managing, she's got
her own business and then shealso has a high schooler, a
middle schooler and a baby andthey're all boys.
when you're saying energymanagement to like be home with
(19:56):
your husband and your three boys, I think it's like extra,
because usually you've got thelittle kids and you know what
that energy is, but then thatcan end at like eight o'clock
because they go to bed and thenhigh school energy is a
different one, but you've gotthem all.
So I think you managing yourenergy is a brilliant idea and
something that everybody couldlearn how to do.
Katie Calagui (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, I need the energy to like chase
the toddler, and then I need theenergy to have a very
intellectual conversation withmy 16 year old, who have those
at 1030.
Michelle Gauthier (20:26):
So, yes, oh my gosh.
I saw some meme the other daythat said, like the okay, when
they're babies, they wake you upin the middle of the night
because they're crying, and whenthey're teenagers, they wake
you up because they want to talkto you at a time where they
feel energized, which is like 11.
And I'm always like, okay, sure, yes, just let me sit up and
pull myself together.
(20:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's tough being amom, especially on both ends of
the spectrum.
Good for you, good for you.
So, based on what you've taughtus today, it sounds like you
work with a lot of leaders, butcan you just tell us who you
work with, in case people areinterested in hiring you, and
then how they can find you?
Katie Calagui (21:07):
Yeah, so easiest way to find me is probably my
website, which I know you'lldrop in the notes because a long
name to spell.
And then who I work with youknow I work, so I do one-on-one
executive coaching with leadersor emerging leaders, and then
also with small businesses andtheir leadership teams.
So any business that's wantingto grow, they're hiring more
(21:27):
employees and they're looking toprofessionalize as a team, work
better together and then createa great experience for their
employees.
That's who I generally support.
Michelle Gauthier (21:36):
Amazing, okay , perfect, thank you.
Will you just spell your namefor us, in case somebody is only
listening and they want to goto your website right now.
Katie Calagui (21:45):
Yeah, so it's Katie K-A-T-I-E, and then Kalagi
is C-A-L-A-G-U-I, and so it'sjust katiekalagiconsultingcom.
There you go.
Michelle Gauthier (21:56):
Thank you very much.
Thank you for listening to theOverwhelmed Working Woman
podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegothiercom.
See you next week.
when we interact with others, it's not just our
brain that gets activated, it'sour emotions that get activated.
Michelle Gauthier (00:09):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences, andin each episode you'll get a
strategy to bring more calm,ease and relaxation to your life
(00:33):
.
Hi, friend, thanks for joiningtoday.
If you're looking for a betterway to handle stress in the
workplace, or you're strugglingwith interpersonal challenges at
home or at work, or justfeeling overwhelmed in your
leadership role, today's episodeis for you.
My guest, Katie Calagui, is aleadership coach with a
(00:54):
background as chief peopleofficer, and when you listen to
the episode today, you'lldiscover why mindfulness is the
key to being a strong leader,not only at work, but also in
the rest of your life.
She also gives us great tips onhow to handle workplace
conflict in a way that actuallyimproves relationships and
productivity instead of makingthings worse.
(01:14):
And then, finally, she sharesthe power of managing your
energy, not just your time, sothat you can stay present and
engaged at work and at home.
A lot of times, we use all ofour energy at work and have
nothing left for home.
She's got a great ability tomake these concepts really
practical and actionable, so I'mconfident you'll walk away
(01:34):
feeling good with some goodstrategies you can use
immediately.
Let's dive in.
Hi, katie, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Hi, michelle, so great to behere.
Yes, I'm so glad to have you.
I think this is going to be agreat podcast for our listeners,
because we do have so manypeople in leadership who are
listening.
And the reason why I invitedKatie to be on today is because
(01:57):
she's a leadership coach.
She has previously been chiefpeople officer and had all kinds
of experience in helpingleaders grow, and I love that.
Her spin on it is a lot ofmindfulness and the way that you
think of mindfulness as thefirst step to being a good
leader.
So I wanted to have you ontoday because I think you can
(02:18):
help our overwhelmed workingwomen feel less overwhelmed and
less stressed, even if they havea job that might take a lot out
of them.
So do you want to tell us alittle bit about how you got
into mindfulness?
Because you started off infinancial services, which isn't
necessarily thought of as amindful career.
So do you want to just tell usa little bit about how you got
(02:39):
into it and then what you teachyour clients and then what you
teach your clients.
Katie Calagui (02:48):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah.
So I started working with myfirst coach 15 years ago.
So I was working for a familybusiness, my father's firm.
I was asked to step into aleadership role.
It's a pretty big jump, givenwhere I was in my career.
They had actually never hadkind of a professional leader of
the firm yet.
It was a very entrepreneurialfirm at that point.
And so I first thing I said isI need a coach to kind of help
me navigate this.
(03:08):
And so my first coach I everhad she was trained.
I mean, she had a very longcorporate life but had done a
lot of training in mindfulnessand that was kind of the
foundation of a lot of the workthat we did and the tools around
mindfulness that she taught me.
I think what stood out and why Iwas kind of an instant believer
and have incorporated that intoall of my leadership going
(03:29):
forward, is that, you know, theimpact was so immediate and it
was so large, like these verysmall shifts that mindfulness
can provide us just made a hugeimpact into how I navigated
whatever challenge was facing me.
So that's where I got introducedto it and, like I said, as a
result.
I just really see it as thisfoundational piece to leadership
(03:52):
, because we think about thechallenges that come up in
leadership.
It's not so much the practicalproblems we have to solve Like
we're all smart, intelligentpeople, like our brains can
figure out the business side ofstuff what's challenging and
overwhelming are theinterpersonal interactions, and
that's because we're allindividual beings with our own
(04:14):
stories and histories andpersonalities, and when we
interact with others, it's notjust our brain that gets
activated, it's our emotionsthat get activated, and so if we
don't have a way to work withour emotion, our interactions at
work become more challenging.
And so that's really what kindof led me down this path of like
okay, how do I use thesemindfulness tools in leadership?
Michelle Gauthier (04:37):
Okay, I love that.
So I just want to highlightsomething that you just said,
because that felt like a reallight bulb to me.
So, if we think about all thethings that we have to do in a
job, what I hear you saying isthe actual part of the job.
The function of the job is theeasier part than interacting
with all the people, and, atleast in all of my corporate
(04:58):
roles, interacting with peoplewas like 90% of my job.
It's very rare that we have ajob these days where you're just
like sitting in an office doingyour exact thing.
Even if you have a job likebeing an accountant, you still
have to, you know, communicatewith everybody else around you.
So I love that you can helppeople feel better in that area.
Do you have specific tips?
Katie Calagui (05:22):
Yeah, well, I think one of the first things
that my coach taught me that wasone of those kind of quick,
high impact things was, you know, when I would get into
discussions and we were problemsolving and emotions were
getting activated.
You know, not only was Iworking in a leadership team,
but with family, so emotionswere even more heightened.
You know, if I felt defensivein a meeting or I felt angry or
(05:47):
frustrated, I would kind of gohome and, you know, being a very
self-improvement driven person,I would try to figure out, like
how do I not get frustrated?
Like what is wrong with me forgetting frustrated?
I need to, like, not getemotional.
And I was doing all this work,trying to figure out how to not
be emotional, and my coachexplained to me that, like you
can't not feel emotion, like wedon't have that ability, it's an
(06:10):
innate thing that happens, andso trying to figure out how to
make it not happen or how totalk myself out of it or, even
worse, criticize myself forhaving the emotion, was really
counterproductive.
So what I needed to do insteadwas I needed to start developing
a language to identify theemotion I was having and
learning how to tolerate it,understand it and move through
(06:33):
it, because actually the betterthat you can tolerate it and
work through it, the faster youcan move on from it.
It's actually kind ofcounterintuitive that that was
what I needed to learn, asopposed to trying to figure out
how to not be emotional, becausethat wasn't going to happen.
Michelle Gauthier (06:49):
Yes, oh my gosh, that's so good.
I too.
If there would have been like abox you could check and be like
, feel no emotions between thehours of eight and six, I would
have been like I'm in.
That sounds good.
And I also think, especially Idon't know if you experienced
this, but especially as a woman,I was like I can never cry at
work.
I will be seen in such a badlight if I ever cry, I have to
(07:10):
be nice.
I can't ever get mad.
I had all these kind of rulesfor myself, so I love that.
So, when you're teaching thisstuff, because I know you work
with women, you work with mentoo, right?
Oh yeah.
Katie Calagui (07:25):
Actually, I've probably worked with more men in
the space that I'm in, I meanI'm in financial services.
So I've definitely worked withboth, for sure.
Michelle Gauthier (07:32):
Yeah, and do you see, is there a difference
between the amount of emotionthat people are willing to feel
or like?
Does anyone take to this lessonbetter than others?
Or do you see that once peoplelearn how to just quickly be
like, ok, I'm angry and I'mgoing to name it and feel it and
allow that, does it seem towork for anybody?
Katie Calagui (07:51):
Well, it's funny you bring up the being a woman
part, because I feel like wekind of get labeled emotional.
But I'll never forget being inI think at the time it was a cab
, not an Uber with one of mymale bosses was very frustrated
with another woman on the teamand he was very angry and he was
saying how she's just soemotional and she can't get her
(08:13):
emotions under control.
And I'm just sitting therethinking, like you know, anger
is an emotion and like he andthat mom, that was being very
emotional.
Michelle Gauthier (08:21):
Yes, yes, how ironic.
But like it seems that thereare emotions that are acceptable
by gender, like women, we'renot supposed to get mad or we
get labeled as you know, bitches.
If men are mad there it's fine,you know, and maybe we're
allowed to cry and they're notallowed, or whatever it is.
So that's funny, though that'sa great thing to point out.
Katie Calagui (08:42):
Oh, my goodness.
Michelle Gauthier (08:43):
Well, well, I want to hear about, like, how
you help your clients with this,but I also, as a coach myself,
I totally believe that in orderfor me to teach anybody anything
, I have to embody it as well.
So before you tell me how youhelp your clients, tell me how
you help yourself.
How do you use this in yourdaily life?
Katie Calagui (09:04):
Yeah.
So I always, you know, kind ofthink of it as mindfulness is
like my main toolbox right, Likewe, just as we go through life.
We kind of our job is toassemble a toolbox to navigate
challenges, because thechallenge is always going to be
there.
We're always going to, you know, slip into our usual reactions.
It's just how quickly can weget into our toolbox toolbox.
(09:27):
And so for me it's like, as I'mmoving through my weeks and my
months, I feel like there's kindof three levels.
I'm either frustrated, dealingwith a conflict, or I have an
issue.
If that's compounding, then I'min overwhelm, and if that's
getting really bad, I findmyself in anxiety, and
mindfulness can help me at anyof those stages.
The sooner I catch it thebetter.
But you know, the first toolbeing like just checking in with
what I'm experiencing and beingpresent with that and
(09:49):
tolerating it, like I said.
And sometimes the body has totell us before the mind can.
So you know, if I'm feelinguneasy and worked up, I might
not know what the emotion is yet.
So it's like, okay, is my chesttight?
Is my belly hurting?
Like, am I breathing heavy?
Like sometimes our body willclue us in first.
So if I can't really get thewords to what I'm experiencing,
(10:09):
I first try to get some cluesfrom what my body is telling me
and that just starts to slowdown, kind of that flight or
fight reaction, and then I kindof think about OK, what am I
experiencing?
If I can label the emotion and Ican kind of allow it, then I
can start to work with it andfigure out, okay, where do I
want to go from here?
What can I do?
That's within my control.
You know, one of the cores ofmindfulness is being present,
(10:33):
and so we know that if we'reworrying about the future or
we're mulling over something inthe past, we're departing from
the present and that's going tocreate more overwhelm and
anxiety.
So can I bring myself back tothis moment Like what's actually
happening now?
Am I okay in this moment?
Are?
Can I bring myself back to thismoment Like what's actually
happening now?
Am I okay in this moment?
Are these things I'm thinkinghave they actually happened or
am I just worried that they'regoing to happen?
So it's just kind of bringingme back to sort of the wiser
(10:56):
parts of myself, as opposed tothe kind of primitive, reactive,
self-protective parts of myself.
Michelle Gauthier (11:02):
Yes, yes, so it sounds like and it's very
similar to what you said aboutat the beginning too, just about
emotions being part of everydaylife.
So I love that.
You just know, no matter howadvanced you get in mindfulness
and I will say me too to thisthat stuff still comes up, you
still get upset, you still getfrustrated, you still get
overwhelmed.
But just noticing it and askingyourself questions and slowing
(11:25):
down really seems to work foryou and, I'm sure, for all of
your clients.
So how do you help your clientsLike, do you work with a big
group?
Do you work with peopleone-on-one?
And then my follow-on questionto that is what's the impact?
I'm thinking of you going intoan organization where they
haven't learned anything aboutmindfulness and then suddenly
(11:46):
all the leaders are trained andable to be much more mindful
about things.
What's the impact on thebusiness when you do something
like that?
Katie Calagui (11:55):
Yeah, well, you know, I think like one of the
biggest values of the work thatI do and other coaches and
consultants is I'm alwaysstriving to improve quality of
life.
So it's like you know, yes,there's things we're going to do
that make the business better,certainly, but I want people to
experience their work life in abetter way, and so I think the
biggest part of that that I helpteams with is how to navigate
(12:19):
conflict well, and so I do thatone-on-one.
So most of my executive teamsthat I coach, I coach the whole
team as a group.
So I'll facilitate meetings andwe'll work together as a group,
and then I'll often coach themone-on-one individually, and so
we'll do some work one-on-oneand then we'll do some work as a
group.
One of the things I do withgroups generally, like a kickoff
retreat or one of our off sitesor even in a regular meeting,
(12:41):
is I print out a page with wordsof emotions on it, because,
interestingly enough, we don'tactually know how to label a lot
of emotions and we kind ofmislabel things in a lot of ways
, like, instead of saying I feelhurt, we're used to saying that
person was a jerk.
You know, it's always veryexternal, so just giving
language so that people in themoment can start learning how to
(13:03):
say hey, I feel confused rightnow, or I'm feeling stuck, or
I'm feeling hurt.
If something is reallyescalated, I try to help us.
You know, work through like howdo we communicate what we're
experiencing versus going on theattack or getting defensive,
which is what typically happenswhen we're finding ourself in
conflict.
And you know, good process,also with a group, helps as well
(13:26):
.
So if we have a good structurefor what we're doing, we have
good, clear objectives, thatkind of also helps them or the
conflict.
And then one I really debriefingwith individuals on.
You know what happened, whatwas your experience, and let's
talk through that.
And so you know we'll kind ofgenerally start from a very
self-protective place and we'llstart weaving these stories
(13:48):
around.
You know that person was meanto me or out of line and this is
not going to work and I justgive up.
And you know, our kind ofself-protective narratives start
getting very, very loud and youknow it's kind of our ego
talking a little bit.
And so if I can help one-on-onewith clients kind of refocus on
well, what do we know for sure?
What are the facts of whathappened?
(14:09):
What were you experiencing?
Did you feel hurt?
Did you feel scared?
Did you feel what was going onwith you?
So someone might start with like, well, I'm angry because Joe is
a jerk and if we let that storyplay out, we go down a path of
how he's wrong and I'm right andI can't work with him and all
that, and then we actually startto abandon ourselves and we're
(14:31):
operating from a place ofsurvival versus wisdom.
So instead, if we can say, hey,I was hurt because I felt
attacked in that meeting and nowI'm feeling really insecure
about my idea and you know,maybe I got something wrong.
And so if we can really get tothe heart of what's going on
with you, then we can talk aboutokay, how do you want to
respond in a way that feelsauthentic to you.
(14:53):
Maybe it's I need to go back toJoe and set some boundaries,
like, hey, joe, it's okay to notlike my idea, but it's not okay
to raise your voice at me.
Or maybe I need to find outwhat's going on with Joe,
because that was really unusualand he doesn't usually act that
way.
So is there something going onwith him that I don't know about
?
But, like, our defensivebehaviors are not going to lead
us to places that are true toourself, and so if we can get
(15:15):
back to you know, kind of movingback into that rational side of
how we want to handle things,then we can act in ways that are
more aligned with our wisestself.
Michelle Gauthier (15:25):
I love that.
I love it so much.
And if I think about therepercussions of that, let's say
you teach someone that skill atwork and they've just reduced
by a huge amount the number ofhours that it's going to take to
solve that problem because theycan just talk to the person
instead of being mad anddefensive and them arguing.
And then I'm picturing thatperson going home and being able
(15:46):
to use those same skills withtheir wife or husband or partner
, kids or anything.
I mean just it feels like onceyou teach them that as a
leadership skill, they can justtake that everywhere in life
with them.
I love that.
Yeah, 100%.
Okay, that's awesome.
So I feel like you've given usalready a lot of great tips.
(16:07):
But if there's one thing thatyou would want to tell someone
who's like I don't do anythingmindfulness wise ever, what's
the number one thing that youwould say to them?
Katie Calagui (16:19):
to just get started, Well, the easiest thing
is always to breathe I thinkwe've all heard about this and
it doesn't have to be like aisolated meditation, breathing
on a cushion, like just doingfour counts in holding it, four
counts out slow that kind ofreactive, protective,
(16:46):
self-defensive reactions, right.
So if we can just slow down alittle bit, and then the second
thing would just be to likecheck in with your body, like if
that's all you can do in themoment is just kind of start to
notice your body Cause again,that gets you out of like your
head spinning and more groundedand it just kind of slows that
reaction.
So, just learning to take acouple of breaths, you can do
(17:08):
that anywhere you know.
If we have time to pick up ourphone and scroll for two minutes
, we can stop and just breathefor two minutes and that can
really start to kind of buildthose neuropathways that help us
identify what's going on in ourexperience faster.
Michelle Gauthier (17:23):
So that's easy to start.
I love that because you can doit without anybody else knowing.
You know you can count yourbreaths while you're sitting in
a meeting if you need to, andyou can check with your body and
see.
You know where do I feeluncomfortable while you're with
other people or not.
That's great.
I love it.
Okay, awesome, all right, thankyou.
(17:44):
Those have been all great tips.
So now I'm going to ask you thetwo questions that I ask
everybody who comes on the show.
So the first one is what's onething that you can do to
instantly feel more calm?
Is it the square breathing?
Did you just give us thatanswer?
Katie Calagui (18:00):
No, I wish I was.
Yes, I should do that.
But I think what I have foundis I just have to let go, like I
noticed this relationship ofthe more overwhelmed I feel, the
more controlling I get, themore I start to control things.
So if I can just let go andkind of let things be and sort
of watch the outcome happenwithout trying to control it,
(18:23):
that instantly can bring myoverwhelm down.
Michelle Gauthier (18:26):
That's so good.
I think you're the one whotaught me this.
That said, when women start tofeel stressed, they go towards
control and men go towards whatis anger.
That's what I thought.
I didn't want to throw themunder the bus, but that's it
Okay.
That resonates for me big time,like when I start to feel
stressed and out of control, Ijust want to control things that
(18:47):
aren't in my control.
So I love that.
Okay.
So the answer is let go.
And then what's something thatyou consistently do in your life
that enables you to do less?
Katie Calagui (18:58):
Well, I've become very fierce about managing my
energy.
Now there's always like manageyour time, it's like whatever
the day is going to be what itis, but I got really I don't
know.
Part of being a working mom waslike I had to manage my energy
and so it was like how much timeam I going to give or energy am
I going to give to this problem, for example?
(19:18):
Or you know this drama thathappened Am I going to lose
myself in this for 20 minutesand ruminate, or am I going to
preserve my energy so I can walkin the door and feel more
peaceful after work and enjoy mykids?
I think just being very mindfulof my energy and very, very
protective of it.
Michelle Gauthier (19:35):
I love that.
That's such a great answer.
And just so you listeners know,katie is managing, she's got
her own business and then shealso has a high schooler, a
middle schooler and a baby andthey're all boys.
when you're saying energymanagement to like be home with
(19:56):
your husband and your three boys, I think it's like extra,
because usually you've got thelittle kids and you know what
that energy is, but then thatcan end at like eight o'clock
because they go to bed and thenhigh school energy is a
different one, but you've gotthem all.
So I think you managing yourenergy is a brilliant idea and
something that everybody couldlearn how to do.
Katie Calagui (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, I need the energy to like chase
the toddler, and then I need theenergy to have a very
intellectual conversation withmy 16 year old, who have those
at 1030.
Michelle Gauthier (20:26):
So, yes, oh my gosh.
I saw some meme the other daythat said, like the okay, when
they're babies, they wake you upin the middle of the night
because they're crying, and whenthey're teenagers, they wake
you up because they want to talkto you at a time where they
feel energized, which is like 11.
And I'm always like, okay, sure, yes, just let me sit up and
pull myself together.
(20:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's tough being amom, especially on both ends of
the spectrum.
Good for you, good for you.
So, based on what you've taughtus today, it sounds like you
work with a lot of leaders, butcan you just tell us who you
work with, in case people areinterested in hiring you, and
then how they can find you?
Katie Calagui (21:07):
Yeah, so easiest way to find me is probably my
website, which I know you'lldrop in the notes because a long
name to spell.
And then who I work with youknow I work, so I do one-on-one
executive coaching with leadersor emerging leaders, and then
also with small businesses andtheir leadership teams.
So any business that's wantingto grow, they're hiring more
(21:27):
employees and they're looking toprofessionalize as a team, work
better together and then createa great experience for their
employees.
That's who I generally support.
Michelle Gauthier (21:36):
Amazing, okay , perfect, thank you.
Will you just spell your namefor us, in case somebody is only
listening and they want to goto your website right now.
Katie Calagui (21:45):
Yeah, so it's Katie K-A-T-I-E, and then Kalagi
is C-A-L-A-G-U-I, and so it'sjust katiekalagiconsultingcom.
There you go.
Michelle Gauthier (21:56):
Thank you very much.
Thank you for listening to theOverwhelmed Working Woman
podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegothiercom.
See you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.