Do you avoid looking at your budget, feel overwhelmed by financial decisions, or secretly believe you're “just not good with money”?
In this episode, we talk with Certified Financial Planner™ Sara Gelsheimer, who cuts through the noise and shame that often surrounds women and money. She breaks down how your money stress might have less to do with financial knowledge — and everything to do with confidence and alignment.
In this episode, you will:
- Learn why confidence, not knowledge, is the real barrier to financial clarity for most women.
- Discover three simple ways to make your finances easier and less time-consuming.
- Understand how aligning your spending with your values can shift your entire relationship with money.
Hit play now to learn practical strategies you can use today to feel more confident, less overwhelmed, and totally in charge of your financial life.
Featured on the podcast:
Connect with Sara on LinkedIn
Visit the InspireHer website
Wondering why you're overwhelmed? Take my "why am I overwhelmed" quiz to find out the source of your overwhelm, and what to do about it.
Send Me a Message - Have a question, comment, or just want to say hi? Message me here, I'd love to chat!
Work With Me - Interested in working with me 1-on-1, taking a class, or joining one of my coaching groups? Message me here to get the scoop.
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Life can be overwhelming, but on this podcast, you'll discover practical strategies to overcome overwhelm, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk, manage time effectively, set boundaries, and stay productive in high-stress jobs—all while learning how to say no and prioritize self-care on the Overwhelmed Worki...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sara Gelsheimer (00:00):
I think for us it's more of a financial
confidence gap than it is afinancial knowledge gap.
Michelle Gauthier (00:10):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences, andin each episode you'll get a
strategy to bring more calm,ease and relaxation to your life
(00:34):
.
Hi, friends, today's episode isa must listen if you've ever
felt overwhelmed by money andwho hasn't felt overwhelmed by
money.
My guest, Sara, is a financialplanner who speaks our language.
No jargon, no shame, justsimple, smart advice for women
who want to feel more confidentand less stressed about their
(00:54):
finances.
When you listen to this episode, you'll learn why money
struggles might be more aboutconfidence than actual knowledge
and how to shift that mindset.
She's also going to give youthree simple ways to simplify
your finances, including onethat will save you lots of time.
And then, finally, you'll learnhow aligning your money habits
(01:15):
with your values can help youfeel more empowered and
intentional in the way that yousave and spend money.
So, if you've been avoidingyour budget or feeling like
you're never going to be goodwith money.
You are in the right place.
Let's dive in.
So let's say hello to SaraGelsheimer.
Thank you for joining ourpodcast today.
Sara Gelsheimer (01:35):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be on it.
Michelle Gauthier (01:37):
Yes, and as you know, we talk a lot on this
podcast about feelingoverwhelmed, the way that we
spend our time, and also we'vedone several episodes around
money and how money can beparticularly overwhelming for
women, for a whole variety ofreasons which we're not going to
get into on this particularepisode.
But the reason why I wanted toreach out to you is because I
(02:01):
know that you give talks and arereally passionate about women
in finance and that you are ableto simplify it for us, and so
that is what I was hoping thatyou could do today is tell all
the overwhelmed working womenwho are listening today how to
make money as easy as possible.
Sara Gelsheimer (02:19):
Yes, absolutely .
So.
This is such a daunting topic,right?
Money touches so many things inour lives.
It can be very overwhelming.
I've heard lots of women saywell, I'm not good at math or
numbers, and so I think we justhave this general anxiety that
comes with that and feeling likeit's just this huge
overwhelming aspect.
(02:40):
But I wanted to share justthree overall areas to really
hone in on to make it a littlebit more palatable.
Michelle Gauthier (02:47):
A little bit easier, daughter's 14.
I don't feel like that's thestory that they get sold anymore
, but it definitely was for me.
I think from fifth grade on Iwas like, oh, I'm just not good
(03:08):
at math.
I just decided and you know,the other thing that's driving
me crazy right now is the girlmath.
Have you seen that on socialmedia?
Like why are we dumbingourselves down?
Like we can't do actual mathRight?
Sara Gelsheimer (03:23):
We're not doing anything for ourselves by that.
Michelle Gauthier (03:26):
Yeah.
Sara Gelsheimer (03:26):
Yes, so interesting.
You know, part of my spiel Igive to women is yes, you can do
it.
If you look at some of thestudies on financial literacy,
so when a woman is given afinancial literacy test where
there's an option that says Idon't know, they tended to
choose that answer a lot.
But when that option wasremoved from that test, they
(03:49):
actually tended to get theanswer right.
So it's just, I think for usit's more of a financial
confidence gap than it is afinancial knowledge gap A lot, I
think that is so interestingand that makes so much sense.
Michelle Gauthier (04:03):
And you know, like we talk about all the time
on this podcast, like thatfeeling of confidence or that
feeling of not confidencewhatever the opposite of
confidence is is coming from ourown thoughts.
So like the thoughts that we'rehaving about money or the
beliefs that we have about notbeing good at math or only being
able to do shopping math orgirl math or whatever that is.
So I think it's great.
(04:24):
Tell us, before we jump into,what we can do to make it simple
, Tell us how you got into thisand how you became passionate
about this topic.
Sara Gelsheimer (04:32):
Sure.
So I actually went to collegeto be a social worker.
So I was a social work major.
I took a basic finance course,just for my own knowledge.
I'm like, well, I'm going to bemaking money one day, I'll be
at not much as a social worker,but I need to know what to do
with money.
So I took this basic financecourse and about halfway through
the semester my professorpulled me aside and said you
(04:56):
know, sarah, you're the onlysocial work major here in the
class and you have the top gradein the class.
Why are you not in finance?
And I simply said I just havezero interest in sales, like I
don't want to sell people, Ijust want to help people, you
(05:16):
know.
So he is really the one thatopened my eyes to this other
world of finance the CFP route,so Certified Financial Planner
route, where you actually canhelp people day to day.
And I actually did like numbers.
So I was like, oh, this isperfect, I can help people and
use my math skills.
Yes, and so you know, Iactually did a dual track.
I did social work and financialplanning, which, by the way,
has actually been very helpfulto have that social work
(05:37):
background in what I do so.
Yes, after I graduated, Ipursued finance and have been in
that field ever since, and it'sI'm just so grateful for that
professor, because it really wasthe perfect career path for me
and I just didn't know I thinkthat's a common misconception is
that finance equals sales.
There's a whole other world offinance that exists.
Michelle Gauthier (05:58):
Yeah, then that yes.
And was there anything inparticular that made you
interested in women and money?
Sara Gelsheimer (06:08):
So, yes, I, you know, in my first part of my
career I was working at asmaller independent firm that
was run by two middle aged males, which is pretty typical in
this industry, and so when theyhad clients coming in, I was
noticing even when it was amarried couple, it was
oftentimes just the male coming,which I was, you know, really
(06:29):
kind of taken aback by which Iwas, you know, really kind of
taken aback by Fast forward.
You know, I've been at mycurrent firm for a little over
11 years and we've done a muchbetter job of encouraging both
spouses to come to meetings andparticipate.
But, you know, especially as Iwas a newer advisor sitting in
on meetings, you know,oftentimes with a male advisor
running those meetings, I wasobserving that, even though she
(06:51):
was present at the table, a lotof times she wasn't asking
questions, and I think my socialwork background really helps in
terms of being able to readpeople and I could see on her
face like she's confused andshe's not asking a question, or
she would ask the question likethis Well, this is probably a
stupid question, but X, y, z, Ithought, you know, this is such
(07:13):
a shame that women are sittinghere in this room, usually with
their male husband who'softentimes running the financial
you know household, oftentimeswith a male advisor, and she
doesn't feel comfortable askingquestions.
She has that in the back of hermind, that you know that, oh, I
don't, I'm not good at numbersor I don't know, I don't this,
(07:34):
and so she doesn't feelcomfortable asking questions.
And so that's when I startedour women's initiative here at
Playing Corp called Inspire.
Her was really to just givewomen educational content
written in a way that hopefullyresonates with them, and then
host women's only events wherewe can sit in a room and we can
be vulnerable and ask thosequestions that maybe they don't
(07:54):
feel comfortable asking whenthey're sitting in a conference
room with their husband andtheir male advisor.
Michelle Gauthier (08:00):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
That's so great.
Good for you to take up thecause.
Help women get educated.
That's great, okay.
So back to our original pointthat we were going to talk about
.
Tell us a couple of the things.
I think you said there werethree.
Tell us the three things thatwomen can do to just simplify
finances for themselves and ormake it less overwhelming.
Sara Gelsheimer (08:22):
Sure, these really fall into what I would
consider three buckets.
So investigate, automate,delegate, okay, so do you want
me to dive in with the first?
Michelle Gauthier (08:31):
one, yes, please automate, delegate, okay.
Sara Gelsheimer (08:32):
So do you want me dive in with the first?
Yes, please.
Okay.
So the first one investigate.
So I think it's so important foreveryone not just, you know,
overwhelmed working women, buteveryone to really spend some
time digging into your values,your goals.
I'm a huge fan of making surethat your money is aligned with
your values.
So often people will come to meand say, oh, you know X, y, z
(08:54):
is really important, and then westart looking at their finances
and they're not saving towardsthis particular goal or you know
they're spending in otherplaces that they had said wasn't
important.
So it's like, okay, well, let'stake a step back.
Let's really deep, dive, deepinto what you say is important.
There's so many great exercises, you know, worksheets out there
(09:14):
where you can really fine tunewhat your values are.
And then I think it's justimportant that you take some
time to review your bankstatements, credit card
statements, even your calendar.
Making sure your time and yourmoney really align with what you
say is important is the bestfirst step.
Really align with what you sayis important is the best first
(09:36):
step.
So I love reading studies on,you know, investing and money,
and there's a lot of researchout there that shows that we
feel the same about our futureselves as we do strangers.
So, for example, for us to savetoday for retirement, for our
future self in retirement, it'salmost as if we're giving money
to a stranger.
So it can be very hard toforego the now.
(09:58):
I feel like, especially thisday and age, with instant
gratification.
So we have to make a sacrificenow for a future self.
So the more you can think aboutOK, let me think about that
future self.
Let me think about Sarah inretirement.
What am I doing?
Where am I?
How do I feel?
What's really getting me upevery day, making me feel
worthwhile?
(10:18):
So I think doing a lot of thatcan help you, you know, forego
the now and actually stay.
You can, you know, think aboutwhat that's going to look like
down the road.
Michelle Gauthier (10:27):
I love that I think that's such a great tip
for money and life in general.
You know to be able to thinkabout like how do I want to feel
in the future and what do Ineed to do now or not do now in
order to get there.
I just saw something the otherday that said, like being
healthy at age 70 started withhealthy eating at age 30.
(10:47):
It's kind of like that you know, that same kind of thing.
That's fascinating, though Ilike that concept a lot.
Sara Gelsheimer (11:14):
XYZ today instead of putting it towards
retirement.
And if I can look at my visionboard and see me laying on the
beach in retirement?
You know this presumed pictureI have in my head well.
That makes it a little biteasier to say today yeah,
absolutely, I love it.
Michelle Gauthier (11:24):
Okay, great.
So that's good.
That's the first one, right,yes?
And then what's?
Sara Gelsheimer (11:30):
next.
So next is automate.
So huge fan of automation,especially for overwhelmed
individuals.
So first of all, setting upbills on autopay, I think, is a
huge first step.
I have heard people say well,what if you know, then I'm not
looking at my bills what ifthere are fees and expenses that
(11:50):
were on there that I shouldn'thave received?
Those are all good call outs Ialso go back to.
I had someone say oh, I foundthis $10 charge on my AT&T bill
that I disputed.
I mean, I was on the phone withthem for an hour but I got it
disputed and I was like, ok,well, is your hour of time worth
more than $10?
And most people like, well,yeah, so you know.
(12:14):
So, even with that argument,that there may be some fees that
you could have argued against,sure, but you also have to value
your time in that.
So the time savings for settingyour bills up on auto pay to me
outweigh any potentialnegatives.
I also am falling in this lineof automation.
I love this idea of reversebudgeting.
(12:35):
So everyone kind of knows thetypical type of budget where you
have all your money coming inand you allocate.
You know this percentage goestowards eating out, this
percentage goes towardstransportation really flips that
on its head and says, okay,let's focus on the savings goals
we need to hit.
So you know, we know we need anemergency fund that can be
(13:00):
three to 12 months worth ofnon-discretionary expenses.
So let's set that aside.
That's going to be in a highyield savings, so we want to
make sure we're saving to that alittle bit each month.
We also want to be saving forretirement.
You know good rule of thumbwould be 15 to 20 percent of
your income going towardsretirement.
So that would be like a 401 or403.
So that's an automatic savings.
(13:21):
Maybe you've got kids going tocollege and you want to save to
your 529.
Maybe you want to be payingdown debt.
But basically, figure out yourdifferent savings goals and then
automate those transfers.
I mean similar to a 401k.
You know, if you're enrolled ina 401k, that contribution
leaves your paycheck and goesstraight to the 401k, so that
(13:43):
you know you don't even have achance to spend it or decide
whether or not to save it.
So do that with all of yoursavings goals and if you know
you're hitting all your savingsgoals, then whatever's left over
you can spend however you want.
You don't need to get down tothe nitty gritty details about
well, is this going towardseating out or groceries?
It doesn't matter Whatever.
(14:04):
Go back to item number one andsee what you value and just make
sure that it's aligning withthe things you want.
Michelle Gauthier (14:11):
Yes, yes, okay, that makes sense.
I love it.
I really lucked out myself inthat when I got my first job,
the CFO was like, yeah, youshould definitely contribute 10%
to retirement.
I was like I don't even knowwhat that is and I don't have
very much money right now.
But okay, I'll just do it,thank goodness, because then I
just kept doing that forever andever and exactly to your point.
(14:33):
It was just totally automated.
I never questioned it, I neverhad it, you know so to think
about those savings as likethey're just gone, and then you
can just live after that on whatyou've got.
Sara Gelsheimer (14:45):
Yeah, so many 401k companies are trying to
make it an automatic enrollment.
Are trying to make it anautomatic enrollment.
So when you get you know, whenyou first start a job, it's you
are automatically enrolledunless you opt out, which takes
friction and we don't likefriction right.
Like we don't want to have togo in and do anything you know,
(15:07):
and so you know it's justgreater chance of success when
it's just automaticallyhappening for you.
So I think you know, reallyharnessing that to your
advantage and doing that in allthese different savings buckets
can be so beneficial yeah that'sa great point.
Michelle Gauthier (15:20):
And.
Sara Gelsheimer (15:20):
I mean companies know automation is the
key right.
They know we don't likefriction and we don't want to
mess up something that's alreadyin place.
So, as you're looking at yourbudget, I would say, like, on
the reverse side, you know somany companies now do
subscription services because,again, that's, people don't ever
cancel them, so they're goldenwhen they get you to sign up.
(15:42):
So, as you're looking at yourbudget, that's always a great
place to it's to check all thoserecurring, you know debits out
of the account for yoursubscriptions and make sure
you're actually taking advantageof the things you're paying for
every month.
Michelle Gauthier (15:54):
Unautomate them.
I just recently did that and Iwas like, ok, we have three
subscriptions to Apple Music,even though I have the family
one that all three of us couldjust use.
How long have I been payingthat?
It's amazing how much money youcan waste if you do that Right
For sure.
Yes, oh, my gosh, ok.
(16:15):
So then your last suggestedstep is called delegate, which I
love because we're alwaystalking about delegating things
on this show.
So tell us about delegating asit as it pertains to money.
Sara Gelsheimer (16:27):
Yes, I am a huge fan of using financial
resources for delegation, andthat can be.
It can be hard to do, and youhave to balance that with also
saving right.
You know, I know you.
If you're not.
If you're spending money now onsomething that you're
delegating, that means you'renot saving it for something else
.
However, I'm a big believer thatif you can offload the things
(16:50):
that you really hate doing,things that don't bring you joy
they really just bother you Ifyou can get those off your plate
, you're going to be so muchmore efficient, effective in all
the different areas.
I think it's one of thoseinvestments that comes back to
you tenfold.
Yeah.
So whether it's investing inlike, for example, I get my
(17:10):
groceries delivered and it doescost a little bit more, but I
have three small children and Ican assure you that no one would
be happy if I had to take allthree kids to go grocery
shopping every week.
Yeah, so I have my groceriesdelivered to my door every week
and it is so great.
Another one I you know had heardfrom one of my mentors was you
(17:32):
really need to outsource housecleaning?
And I had a mother who was asocial worker.
She was a single mom.
She had dinner cooked everynight.
I mean never outsourcedanything, and you know.
So I had a hard time reallyaccepting that I could do
something like that, likeactually you know enlist help,
(17:53):
accepting that I could dosomething like that, like
actually you know enlist help.
And so I think you know a lotof us who saw parents doing
those types of things may have aharder time actually letting go
.
But I'm so glad I did.
I'm so glad I get to spend myweekends with my kids as opposed
to cleaning my toilets.
Michelle Gauthier (18:07):
And it's giving someone else an
opportunity right?
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
But that's so important torecognize that you had your own
backstory that formed a beliefthat was I should be able to do
everything because my mom did orI'm making that up, but you
know something to that effectand that you can choose again to
be like, oh, do I want toaccept that programming that I
(18:30):
just happened to receive, or doI want to create a new way to
think about this for myself?
So that's awesome.
Sara Gelsheimer (18:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely.
It can be a challenge, butdelegating those tasks out are
so important and really, youknow, from a financial
perspective to of course I'mbiased, but I do think you know
outsourcing your financial youknow life can be super helpful
as well.
I mean, I work with clientsoften who are fully capable of
(19:00):
doing this on their own, butthey want to spend their time
doing things that they enjoymore than dealing with their
financial situation.
And I just caught a mistake ona client's tax return yesterday
that they're going to get an$8,000 refund, and so we often
can bring up things that clientsdon't even know or, yes,
(19:20):
outages they've never heard of.
And so I think it's anotherarea where the cost sure it's an
upfront cost or an ongoing cost, but that the return, you know,
more than pays for itself.
Michelle Gauthier (19:31):
Yes, yes, and I think that's so true with
money and you know many otherservices where it's not that we
would be unable to figure it out, but but why?
That's what I think.
But why, when I'm on a callwith my financial advisor, who's
a female, and my accountant,who also is, and they're talking
(19:52):
back and forth to figure thingsout, and I'm I'm listening
because I'm interested and Iwant to understand it, but they
come up with all kinds ofstrategies and things that I
would not even know about, nordo I even.
Really I want to understandthat, what they're doing, but I
don't want to research and learnabout them.
And no, that is not my sweetspot.
And yeah, it has definitelybeen worth the money, that's for
(20:14):
sure.
Like I've made way more moneythan I would have ever made on
my own, you know, without theiradvice.
Sara Gelsheimer (20:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
I feel like that's a greatadage you don't have to know how
the watch works, you just needto know how to tell time.
So, in your example, like youwant to understand how to tell
time, right, but they understandthe complexities, the
intricacies of those differentareas, so there's no reason for
you to try to dive deep intothose.
Michelle Gauthier (20:39):
Yeah, exactly Like somebody else is doing
that.
Sara Gelsheimer (20:41):
That's right, I love it.
Michelle Gauthier (20:42):
I love it.
That's so great.
Okay, well, two more questionsto wrap up, which are questions
I ask everybody who is a gueston the show.
Is what is something that youpersonally do when you feel
overwhelmed, to help yourselffeel better?
Sara Gelsheimer (20:56):
So I have done a lot in terms of breathing and
meditation, so I try to do thosethings in the moment, but in
terms of actual like things todo, that make me feel better
when I'm overwhelmed.
You know, we're in Q4 right now, which is a difficult, a lot to
do in Q4 work, and so there aretimes where my task list is so
(21:19):
long and I feel like I need todo all these things today, and
when I actually like look at thecalendar and say, ok, I'm going
to put this over here, I'mgoing to put this a couple of
days out, when I actually kindof do time blocking, which I
don't do day to day.
But when I get overwhelmed andactually put those things on the
calendar and realize I don'thave to do them all today, that
can make me feel a lot better.
Michelle Gauthier (21:41):
That's a great great idea, because when
you feel like you have to do itall today makes you feel
overwhelmed, and then, whenyou're overwhelmed, most people
just can't think straight onanything, so it's kind of
pointless.
Okay, that's a great one.
And then the second question iswhat is something that you do
regularly in order to do less orsave time?
Sara Gelsheimer (22:00):
I love killing two birds with one stone in any
way, shape or form that I can.
So you know, as a busy workingmom of three kids, I don't have
a ton of time to get in extrasteps.
So I have a walking pad at workthat I try to use anytime I'm,
you know, in a webinar or youknow, doing some mindless stuff
(22:23):
I have to get done.
I can walk while I do it, whichis really helpful.
And when I'm walking, like athome, if I do get a chance to go
out and walk, that's when Ilisten to podcasts such as this
and other forms of learning,because I'm like, oh, I might as
well walk and get someeducational content in at the
same time, or listening topodcasts while I drive.
So yes do those two things atonce is very helpful for me.
Michelle Gauthier (22:46):
Okay, good, good, that is a good time saver.
How is your walking pad?
I've seen those before and I'vewondered.
Sara Gelsheimer (22:53):
Best purchase I've made in 2023.
I got it last year and it is.
I mean it's nothing fancy.
I mean I think it was on saleat Amazon for 200 bucks and yeah
, I've gotten so many steps inthat I wouldn't have otherwise.
Michelle Gauthier (23:08):
So, yes, highly recommend, oh that's good
to know, because I've wonderedabout that before.
Especially this is funny, Likethis is definitely a thought I
have, but I was like $150, $200.
How good can that be?
Is it going to fall apart, youknow, like as compared to a
treadmill?
That's what.
I'm comparing it to you know,which is like a $5,000
investment.
(23:28):
Unless you get the Peloton one,then I think it's like $12,000.
Yeah, okay, cool, that's goodto know.
Well, if people want to knowmore about you or your work,
where can they find you?
Sara Gelsheimer (23:40):
So you can follow me on LinkedIn.
I try to share a lot of helpfulcontent as well as information
about our women's initiative,the newsletter and things like
that.
So inspire her or my LinkedInwould be great.
Michelle Gauthier (23:54):
Okay, okay, perfect, and I'll put both of
those in the show notes.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on today.
It was fun to talk to you.
I feel like if someone can maketalking about money fun and
interesting, then that is a realwin.
And you have done that and youhave helped us see how we can be
so much more calm in ourapproach to money by taking
those steps.
So you have done that and youhave helped us see how we can be
so much more calm in ourapproach to money by taking
(24:15):
those steps.
So thank you so much.
Sara Gelsheimer (24:17):
Thanks so much for having me.
Michelle Gauthier (24:23):
Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed
Working Woman podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegauthier.
com.
See you next week.
I think for us it's more of a financial
confidence gap than it is afinancial knowledge gap.
Michelle Gauthier (00:10):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences, andin each episode you'll get a
strategy to bring more calm,ease and relaxation to your life
(00:34):
.
Hi, friends, today's episode isa must listen if you've ever
felt overwhelmed by money andwho hasn't felt overwhelmed by
money.
My guest, Sara, is a financialplanner who speaks our language.
No jargon, no shame, justsimple, smart advice for women
who want to feel more confidentand less stressed about their
(00:54):
finances.
When you listen to this episode, you'll learn why money
struggles might be more aboutconfidence than actual knowledge
and how to shift that mindset.
She's also going to give youthree simple ways to simplify
your finances, including onethat will save you lots of time.
And then, finally, you'll learnhow aligning your money habits
(01:15):
with your values can help youfeel more empowered and
intentional in the way that yousave and spend money.
So, if you've been avoidingyour budget or feeling like
you're never going to be goodwith money.
You are in the right place.
Let's dive in.
So let's say hello to SaraGelsheimer.
Thank you for joining ourpodcast today.
Sara Gelsheimer (01:35):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be on it.
Michelle Gauthier (01:37):
Yes, and as you know, we talk a lot on this
podcast about feelingoverwhelmed, the way that we
spend our time, and also we'vedone several episodes around
money and how money can beparticularly overwhelming for
women, for a whole variety ofreasons which we're not going to
get into on this particularepisode.
But the reason why I wanted toreach out to you is because I
(02:01):
know that you give talks and arereally passionate about women
in finance and that you are ableto simplify it for us, and so
that is what I was hoping thatyou could do today is tell all
the overwhelmed working womenwho are listening today how to
make money as easy as possible.
Sara Gelsheimer (02:19):
Yes, absolutely .
So.
This is such a daunting topic,right?
Money touches so many things inour lives.
It can be very overwhelming.
I've heard lots of women saywell, I'm not good at math or
numbers, and so I think we justhave this general anxiety that
comes with that and feeling likeit's just this huge
overwhelming aspect.
(02:40):
But I wanted to share justthree overall areas to really
hone in on to make it a littlebit more palatable.
Michelle Gauthier (02:47):
A little bit easier, daughter's 14.
I don't feel like that's thestory that they get sold anymore
, but it definitely was for me.
I think from fifth grade on Iwas like, oh, I'm just not good
(03:08):
at math.
I just decided and you know,the other thing that's driving
me crazy right now is the girlmath.
Have you seen that on socialmedia?
Like why are we dumbingourselves down?
Like we can't do actual mathRight?
Sara Gelsheimer (03:23):
We're not doing anything for ourselves by that.
Michelle Gauthier (03:26):
Yeah.
Sara Gelsheimer (03:26):
Yes, so interesting.
You know, part of my spiel Igive to women is yes, you can do
it.
If you look at some of thestudies on financial literacy,
so when a woman is given afinancial literacy test where
there's an option that says Idon't know, they tended to
choose that answer a lot.
But when that option wasremoved from that test, they
(03:49):
actually tended to get theanswer right.
So it's just, I think for usit's more of a financial
confidence gap than it is afinancial knowledge gap A lot, I
think that is so interestingand that makes so much sense.
Michelle Gauthier (04:03):
And you know, like we talk about all the time
on this podcast, like thatfeeling of confidence or that
feeling of not confidencewhatever the opposite of
confidence is is coming from ourown thoughts.
So like the thoughts that we'rehaving about money or the
beliefs that we have about notbeing good at math or only being
able to do shopping math orgirl math or whatever that is.
So I think it's great.
(04:24):
Tell us, before we jump into,what we can do to make it simple
, Tell us how you got into thisand how you became passionate
about this topic.
Sara Gelsheimer (04:32):
Sure.
So I actually went to collegeto be a social worker.
So I was a social work major.
I took a basic finance course,just for my own knowledge.
I'm like, well, I'm going to bemaking money one day, I'll be
at not much as a social worker,but I need to know what to do
with money.
So I took this basic financecourse and about halfway through
the semester my professorpulled me aside and said you
(04:56):
know, sarah, you're the onlysocial work major here in the
class and you have the top gradein the class.
Why are you not in finance?
And I simply said I just havezero interest in sales, like I
don't want to sell people, Ijust want to help people, you
(05:16):
know.
So he is really the one thatopened my eyes to this other
world of finance the CFP route,so Certified Financial Planner
route, where you actually canhelp people day to day.
And I actually did like numbers.
So I was like, oh, this isperfect, I can help people and
use my math skills.
Yes, and so you know, Iactually did a dual track.
I did social work and financialplanning, which, by the way,
has actually been very helpfulto have that social work
(05:37):
background in what I do so.
Yes, after I graduated, Ipursued finance and have been in
that field ever since, and it'sI'm just so grateful for that
professor, because it really wasthe perfect career path for me
and I just didn't know I thinkthat's a common misconception is
that finance equals sales.
There's a whole other world offinance that exists.
Michelle Gauthier (05:58):
Yeah, then that yes.
And was there anything inparticular that made you
interested in women and money?
Sara Gelsheimer (06:08):
So, yes, I, you know, in my first part of my
career I was working at asmaller independent firm that
was run by two middle aged males, which is pretty typical in
this industry, and so when theyhad clients coming in, I was
noticing even when it was amarried couple, it was
oftentimes just the male coming,which I was, you know, really
(06:29):
kind of taken aback by which Iwas, you know, really kind of
taken aback by Fast forward.
You know, I've been at mycurrent firm for a little over
11 years and we've done a muchbetter job of encouraging both
spouses to come to meetings andparticipate.
But, you know, especially as Iwas a newer advisor sitting in
on meetings, you know,oftentimes with a male advisor
running those meetings, I wasobserving that, even though she
(06:51):
was present at the table, a lotof times she wasn't asking
questions, and I think my socialwork background really helps in
terms of being able to readpeople and I could see on her
face like she's confused andshe's not asking a question, or
she would ask the question likethis Well, this is probably a
stupid question, but X, y, z, Ithought, you know, this is such
(07:13):
a shame that women are sittinghere in this room, usually with
their male husband who'softentimes running the financial
you know household, oftentimeswith a male advisor, and she
doesn't feel comfortable askingquestions.
She has that in the back of hermind, that you know that, oh, I
don't, I'm not good at numbersor I don't know, I don't this,
(07:34):
and so she doesn't feelcomfortable asking questions.
And so that's when I startedour women's initiative here at
Playing Corp called Inspire.
Her was really to just givewomen educational content
written in a way that hopefullyresonates with them, and then
host women's only events wherewe can sit in a room and we can
be vulnerable and ask thosequestions that maybe they don't
(07:54):
feel comfortable asking whenthey're sitting in a conference
room with their husband andtheir male advisor.
Michelle Gauthier (08:00):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
That's so great.
Good for you to take up thecause.
Help women get educated.
That's great, okay.
So back to our original pointthat we were going to talk about
.
Tell us a couple of the things.
I think you said there werethree.
Tell us the three things thatwomen can do to just simplify
finances for themselves and ormake it less overwhelming.
Sara Gelsheimer (08:22):
Sure, these really fall into what I would
consider three buckets.
So investigate, automate,delegate, okay, so do you want
me to dive in with the first?
Michelle Gauthier (08:31):
one, yes, please automate, delegate, okay.
Sara Gelsheimer (08:32):
So do you want me dive in with the first?
Yes, please.
Okay.
So the first one investigate.
So I think it's so important foreveryone not just, you know,
overwhelmed working women, buteveryone to really spend some
time digging into your values,your goals.
I'm a huge fan of making surethat your money is aligned with
your values.
So often people will come to meand say, oh, you know X, y, z
(08:54):
is really important, and then westart looking at their finances
and they're not saving towardsthis particular goal or you know
they're spending in otherplaces that they had said wasn't
important.
So it's like, okay, well, let'stake a step back.
Let's really deep, dive, deepinto what you say is important.
There's so many great exercises, you know, worksheets out there
(09:14):
where you can really fine tunewhat your values are.
And then I think it's justimportant that you take some
time to review your bankstatements, credit card
statements, even your calendar.
Making sure your time and yourmoney really align with what you
say is important is the bestfirst step.
Really align with what you sayis important is the best first
(09:36):
step.
So I love reading studies on,you know, investing and money,
and there's a lot of researchout there that shows that we
feel the same about our futureselves as we do strangers.
So, for example, for us to savetoday for retirement, for our
future self in retirement, it'salmost as if we're giving money
to a stranger.
So it can be very hard toforego the now.
(09:58):
I feel like, especially thisday and age, with instant
gratification.
So we have to make a sacrificenow for a future self.
So the more you can think aboutOK, let me think about that
future self.
Let me think about Sarah inretirement.
What am I doing?
Where am I?
How do I feel?
What's really getting me upevery day, making me feel
worthwhile?
(10:18):
So I think doing a lot of thatcan help you, you know, forego
the now and actually stay.
You can, you know, think aboutwhat that's going to look like
down the road.
Michelle Gauthier (10:27):
I love that I think that's such a great tip
for money and life in general.
You know to be able to thinkabout like how do I want to feel
in the future and what do Ineed to do now or not do now in
order to get there.
I just saw something the otherday that said, like being
healthy at age 70 started withhealthy eating at age 30.
(10:47):
It's kind of like that you know, that same kind of thing.
That's fascinating, though Ilike that concept a lot.
Sara Gelsheimer (11:14):
XYZ today instead of putting it towards
retirement.
And if I can look at my visionboard and see me laying on the
beach in retirement?
You know this presumed pictureI have in my head well.
That makes it a little biteasier to say today yeah,
absolutely, I love it.
Michelle Gauthier (11:24):
Okay, great.
So that's good.
That's the first one, right,yes?
And then what's?
Sara Gelsheimer (11:30):
next.
So next is automate.
So huge fan of automation,especially for overwhelmed
individuals.
So first of all, setting upbills on autopay, I think, is a
huge first step.
I have heard people say well,what if you know, then I'm not
looking at my bills what ifthere are fees and expenses that
(11:50):
were on there that I shouldn'thave received?
Those are all good call outs Ialso go back to.
I had someone say oh, I foundthis $10 charge on my AT&T bill
that I disputed.
I mean, I was on the phone withthem for an hour but I got it
disputed and I was like, ok,well, is your hour of time worth
more than $10?
And most people like, well,yeah, so you know.
(12:14):
So, even with that argument,that there may be some fees that
you could have argued against,sure, but you also have to value
your time in that.
So the time savings for settingyour bills up on auto pay to me
outweigh any potentialnegatives.
I also am falling in this lineof automation.
I love this idea of reversebudgeting.
(12:35):
So everyone kind of knows thetypical type of budget where you
have all your money coming inand you allocate.
You know this percentage goestowards eating out, this
percentage goes towardstransportation really flips that
on its head and says, okay,let's focus on the savings goals
we need to hit.
So you know, we know we need anemergency fund that can be
(13:00):
three to 12 months worth ofnon-discretionary expenses.
So let's set that aside.
That's going to be in a highyield savings, so we want to
make sure we're saving to that alittle bit each month.
We also want to be saving forretirement.
You know good rule of thumbwould be 15 to 20 percent of
your income going towardsretirement.
So that would be like a 401 or403.
So that's an automatic savings.
(13:21):
Maybe you've got kids going tocollege and you want to save to
your 529.
Maybe you want to be payingdown debt.
But basically, figure out yourdifferent savings goals and then
automate those transfers.
I mean similar to a 401k.
You know, if you're enrolled ina 401k, that contribution
leaves your paycheck and goesstraight to the 401k, so that
(13:43):
you know you don't even have achance to spend it or decide
whether or not to save it.
So do that with all of yoursavings goals and if you know
you're hitting all your savingsgoals, then whatever's left over
you can spend however you want.
You don't need to get down tothe nitty gritty details about
well, is this going towardseating out or groceries?
It doesn't matter Whatever.
(14:04):
Go back to item number one andsee what you value and just make
sure that it's aligning withthe things you want.
Michelle Gauthier (14:11):
Yes, yes, okay, that makes sense.
I love it.
I really lucked out myself inthat when I got my first job,
the CFO was like, yeah, youshould definitely contribute 10%
to retirement.
I was like I don't even knowwhat that is and I don't have
very much money right now.
But okay, I'll just do it,thank goodness, because then I
just kept doing that forever andever and exactly to your point.
(14:33):
It was just totally automated.
I never questioned it, I neverhad it, you know so to think
about those savings as likethey're just gone, and then you
can just live after that on whatyou've got.
Sara Gelsheimer (14:45):
Yeah, so many 401k companies are trying to
make it an automatic enrollment.
Are trying to make it anautomatic enrollment.
So when you get you know, whenyou first start a job, it's you
are automatically enrolledunless you opt out, which takes
friction and we don't likefriction right.
Like we don't want to have togo in and do anything you know,
(15:07):
and so you know it's justgreater chance of success when
it's just automaticallyhappening for you.
So I think you know, reallyharnessing that to your
advantage and doing that in allthese different savings buckets
can be so beneficial yeah that'sa great point.
Michelle Gauthier (15:20):
And.
Sara Gelsheimer (15:20):
I mean companies know automation is the
key right.
They know we don't likefriction and we don't want to
mess up something that's alreadyin place.
So, as you're looking at yourbudget, I would say, like, on
the reverse side, you know somany companies now do
subscription services because,again, that's, people don't ever
cancel them, so they're goldenwhen they get you to sign up.
(15:42):
So, as you're looking at yourbudget, that's always a great
place to it's to check all thoserecurring, you know debits out
of the account for yoursubscriptions and make sure
you're actually taking advantageof the things you're paying for
every month.
Michelle Gauthier (15:54):
Unautomate them.
I just recently did that and Iwas like, ok, we have three
subscriptions to Apple Music,even though I have the family
one that all three of us couldjust use.
How long have I been payingthat?
It's amazing how much money youcan waste if you do that Right
For sure.
Yes, oh, my gosh, ok.
(16:15):
So then your last suggestedstep is called delegate, which I
love because we're alwaystalking about delegating things
on this show.
So tell us about delegating asit as it pertains to money.
Sara Gelsheimer (16:27):
Yes, I am a huge fan of using financial
resources for delegation, andthat can be.
It can be hard to do, and youhave to balance that with also
saving right.
You know, I know you.
If you're not.
If you're spending money now onsomething that you're
delegating, that means you'renot saving it for something else
.
However, I'm a big believer thatif you can offload the things
(16:50):
that you really hate doing,things that don't bring you joy
they really just bother you Ifyou can get those off your plate
, you're going to be so muchmore efficient, effective in all
the different areas.
I think it's one of thoseinvestments that comes back to
you tenfold.
Yeah.
So whether it's investing inlike, for example, I get my
(17:10):
groceries delivered and it doescost a little bit more, but I
have three small children and Ican assure you that no one would
be happy if I had to take allthree kids to go grocery
shopping every week.
Yeah, so I have my groceriesdelivered to my door every week
and it is so great.
Another one I you know had heardfrom one of my mentors was you
(17:32):
really need to outsource housecleaning?
And I had a mother who was asocial worker.
She was a single mom.
She had dinner cooked everynight.
I mean never outsourcedanything, and you know.
So I had a hard time reallyaccepting that I could do
something like that, likeactually you know enlist help,
(17:53):
accepting that I could dosomething like that, like
actually you know enlist help.
And so I think you know a lotof us who saw parents doing
those types of things may have aharder time actually letting go
.
But I'm so glad I did.
I'm so glad I get to spend myweekends with my kids as opposed
to cleaning my toilets.
Michelle Gauthier (18:07):
And it's giving someone else an
opportunity right?
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
But that's so important torecognize that you had your own
backstory that formed a beliefthat was I should be able to do
everything because my mom did orI'm making that up, but you
know something to that effectand that you can choose again to
be like, oh, do I want toaccept that programming that I
(18:30):
just happened to receive, or doI want to create a new way to
think about this for myself?
So that's awesome.
Sara Gelsheimer (18:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely.
It can be a challenge, butdelegating those tasks out are
so important and really, youknow, from a financial
perspective to of course I'mbiased, but I do think you know
outsourcing your financial youknow life can be super helpful
as well.
I mean, I work with clientsoften who are fully capable of
(19:00):
doing this on their own, butthey want to spend their time
doing things that they enjoymore than dealing with their
financial situation.
And I just caught a mistake ona client's tax return yesterday
that they're going to get an$8,000 refund, and so we often
can bring up things that clientsdon't even know or, yes,
(19:20):
outages they've never heard of.
And so I think it's anotherarea where the cost sure it's an
upfront cost or an ongoing cost, but that the return, you know,
more than pays for itself.
Michelle Gauthier (19:31):
Yes, yes, and I think that's so true with
money and you know many otherservices where it's not that we
would be unable to figure it out, but but why?
That's what I think.
But why, when I'm on a callwith my financial advisor, who's
a female, and my accountant,who also is, and they're talking
(19:52):
back and forth to figure thingsout, and I'm I'm listening
because I'm interested and Iwant to understand it, but they
come up with all kinds ofstrategies and things that I
would not even know about, nordo I even.
Really I want to understandthat, what they're doing, but I
don't want to research and learnabout them.
And no, that is not my sweetspot.
And yeah, it has definitelybeen worth the money, that's for
(20:14):
sure.
Like I've made way more moneythan I would have ever made on
my own, you know, without theiradvice.
Sara Gelsheimer (20:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
I feel like that's a greatadage you don't have to know how
the watch works, you just needto know how to tell time.
So, in your example, like youwant to understand how to tell
time, right, but they understandthe complexities, the
intricacies of those differentareas, so there's no reason for
you to try to dive deep intothose.
Michelle Gauthier (20:39):
Yeah, exactly Like somebody else is doing
that.
Sara Gelsheimer (20:41):
That's right, I love it.
Michelle Gauthier (20:42):
I love it.
That's so great.
Okay, well, two more questionsto wrap up, which are questions
I ask everybody who is a gueston the show.
Is what is something that youpersonally do when you feel
overwhelmed, to help yourselffeel better?
Sara Gelsheimer (20:56):
So I have done a lot in terms of breathing and
meditation, so I try to do thosethings in the moment, but in
terms of actual like things todo, that make me feel better
when I'm overwhelmed.
You know, we're in Q4 right now, which is a difficult, a lot to
do in Q4 work, and so there aretimes where my task list is so
(21:19):
long and I feel like I need todo all these things today, and
when I actually like look at thecalendar and say, ok, I'm going
to put this over here, I'mgoing to put this a couple of
days out, when I actually kindof do time blocking, which I
don't do day to day.
But when I get overwhelmed andactually put those things on the
calendar and realize I don'thave to do them all today, that
can make me feel a lot better.
Michelle Gauthier (21:41):
That's a great great idea, because when
you feel like you have to do itall today makes you feel
overwhelmed, and then, whenyou're overwhelmed, most people
just can't think straight onanything, so it's kind of
pointless.
Okay, that's a great one.
And then the second question iswhat is something that you do
regularly in order to do less orsave time?
Sara Gelsheimer (22:00):
I love killing two birds with one stone in any
way, shape or form that I can.
So you know, as a busy workingmom of three kids, I don't have
a ton of time to get in extrasteps.
So I have a walking pad at workthat I try to use anytime I'm,
you know, in a webinar or youknow, doing some mindless stuff
(22:23):
I have to get done.
I can walk while I do it, whichis really helpful.
And when I'm walking, like athome, if I do get a chance to go
out and walk, that's when Ilisten to podcasts such as this
and other forms of learning,because I'm like, oh, I might as
well walk and get someeducational content in at the
same time, or listening topodcasts while I drive.
So yes do those two things atonce is very helpful for me.
Michelle Gauthier (22:46):
Okay, good, good, that is a good time saver.
How is your walking pad?
I've seen those before and I'vewondered.
Sara Gelsheimer (22:53):
Best purchase I've made in 2023.
I got it last year and it is.
I mean it's nothing fancy.
I mean I think it was on saleat Amazon for 200 bucks and yeah
, I've gotten so many steps inthat I wouldn't have otherwise.
Michelle Gauthier (23:08):
So, yes, highly recommend, oh that's good
to know, because I've wonderedabout that before.
Especially this is funny, Likethis is definitely a thought I
have, but I was like $150, $200.
How good can that be?
Is it going to fall apart, youknow, like as compared to a
treadmill?
That's what.
I'm comparing it to you know,which is like a $5,000
investment.
(23:28):
Unless you get the Peloton one,then I think it's like $12,000.
Yeah, okay, cool, that's goodto know.
Well, if people want to knowmore about you or your work,
where can they find you?
Sara Gelsheimer (23:40):
So you can follow me on LinkedIn.
I try to share a lot of helpfulcontent as well as information
about our women's initiative,the newsletter and things like
that.
So inspire her or my LinkedInwould be great.
Michelle Gauthier (23:54):
Okay, okay, perfect, and I'll put both of
those in the show notes.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on today.
It was fun to talk to you.
I feel like if someone can maketalking about money fun and
interesting, then that is a realwin.
And you have done that and youhave helped us see how we can be
so much more calm in ourapproach to money by taking
those steps.
So you have done that and youhave helped us see how we can be
so much more calm in ourapproach to money by taking
(24:15):
those steps.
So thank you so much.
Sara Gelsheimer (24:17):
Thanks so much for having me.
Michelle Gauthier (24:23):
Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed
Working Woman podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegauthier.
com.
See you next week.
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