Do you ever feel like no matter how much you earn, there’s never enough money — or that guilt and people-pleasing are keeping you from building real wealth?
In this episode, financial expert and TEDx speaker Hilary Hendershott shares her raw story of going from a BMW she couldn’t afford and $570,000 in debt, to creating a thriving wealth management firm designed by women, for women. If money overwhelm, hidden beliefs, or cultural conditioning have ever held you back, this conversation will feel like a turning point.
By listening, you’ll discover:
- The most common subconscious money beliefs and how they secretly shape your financial reality
- Practical first steps to identify and shift your own “money operating system”
- Why women are often conditioned to play small with money — and how to break free to claim financial power
Press play now to uncover the hidden money stories holding you back and learn how to finally create the financial freedom you deserve.
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Hendershott Wealth Management
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hilary Hendershott (00:00):
I call it your money operating system.
And so, like, the operatingsystem of the computer dictates
how the hardware interacts withthe software, and so it's a
really great metaphor for yourmoney belief, your money mindset
.
Michelle Gauthier (00:15):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former overwhelmed
working woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences andin each episode you'll get a
strategy to bring more calm,ease and relaxation to your life
(00:39):
.
Hi friend, thanks so much forjoining today.
Today's episode is such a greatreminder that knowing what to
do with money isn't alwaysenough.
I'm talking with guest HilaryHendershott, who owns a wealth
management firm and is a moneymindset expert who went from
advising millionaires on what todo with their money to not
(01:00):
being able to afford gas in herown BMW.
Her story is super honest, alittle jaw-dropping and totally
inspiring.
So when you listen today,you'll start to understand how
early beliefs about money shapeyour behavior as an adult, even
if you're good with money andthe most common subconscious
money operating systems and howto support yours, and then what
(01:24):
to do when you feel overwhelmedjust thinking about your
finances.
I know we've talked about moneybefore on the podcast and I
think it's such an importantthing for us to continue to talk
about because it can be a bigcontributor to overwhelm.
So we talk about guilt andpeople pleasing and how women
are often conditioned to playsmall with money.
Let's jump into the episode andwelcome Hillary.
(01:46):
Hillary, thank you so much forbeing here with us.
Thanks for having me.
This is exciting.
Yes, I'm so glad to have you.
So I always want to know first,tell us about you.
What is your backstory and howdid you get to be this person
who's now doing TED Talks and isseen as not only a financial
advisor but an expert onfinances?
Hilary Hendershott (02:06):
Yeah, I had a very regular up and coming
path line to being a financialadvisor.
I fell in love with economicsin school.
My father was a financialadvisor my whole life.
I tried a couple things in myearly 20s but pretty soon I went
to work for my dad.
He very much wanted me to behis business continuation plan.
(02:27):
As an economics student, I wasthe ultimate pragmatist.
I was like, you know,everything should work out, if
you just work hard, you'll dothe best kind of mindset.
And then and then I foundmyself in a situation.
See, money burned a hole in mypocket and it got to the point
where I was coming home from aday full of advising
(02:48):
multimillionaires on how tobuild investment portfolios, to
a stack of bills on my kitchencounter that I didn't open
because I couldn't pay them.
I didn't have the money to paythem, right.
And it got so bad that one dayI pulled my leased BMW
convertible into the gas stationand my credit cards were maxed
out and my bank account wasempty, so I couldn't even buy
(03:10):
gas.
So I left the BMW at the gasstation.
I walked home and I had a chatwith myself on the way home and
I said, obviously, very clearly,I can see at this age that if I
continue without a violentinterruption of my current
pattern, that my future is goingto be filled with more,
(03:31):
different and worse versions ofthis outcome.
Like I'm going to continue tohave financial emergencies, I'm
going to continue to have badcredit, no savings, people are
going to have to rescue me.
Right, and I said obviously,whatever world I'm functioning
in about my own personalfinances, it doesn't work, my
behavior doesn't work.
So I look at my friends andcolleagues next to me and they
(03:52):
might make the same amount ofmoney as I do, but they're
saving money, they have goodcredit, they're paying cash for
cars.
And I said, what's giving me mybehavior is my psychology.
So it's obviously not my lovefor economics that's going to
save the day.
I'm going to have to become astudent of money psychology.
And I started attendingconferences.
I mean, I got really humble.
I told people in my life whatwas actually happening in my
(04:15):
world.
I remember I attended thislecture and I heard the term
overspender for the first time,and I did not.
I'd never heard that termbefore, but I knew when I heard
it that I was one.
Right.
Michelle Gauthier (04:27):
You identified immediately as an
overspender.
Hilary Hendershott (04:30):
Ding ding ding, like you know, and I've
heard and said the word so manytimes.
It's funny to say that I hadn't.
I knew that day, I'd neverheard it before.
And you know, I got like I said.
I got transparent with my Imean, my father was my boss, so
I told him the dire situation ofmy finances and I got into
right relationship with wealth.
I right-sized my spending byforce.
(04:50):
It was a belt cinching in thebeginning, right, and it took
some time and the beginningparts were painful.
No ifs, ands or buts about it.
I had to have that BMW towedback to the credit union - they
owned it.
It was a lease, like I said itwas.
It was lease.
And I walked in and I handedher the keys and I said here,
this isn't mine anymore.
(05:10):
You know, the look on thiswoman's face was like she said
I've never had anyone do thisbefore.
Well, I wasn't going to get,wait for it to be repossessed.
So here you go.
Yeah, I did a deal in lieu offoreclosure on a condo.
I had one of those mortgageswhere I made the minimum payment
every month and the balancewent up on a monthly basis.
So by the time I let go of thecondo.
(05:31):
The mortgage amount was, youknow, close to the actual fair
market value of the condo, butit had gone from 420 - It was
worth 420,000.
And then, in the real estatecrisis, it got down to $190,000.
So I had $420,000 in debt on acondo that was worth less than
$200,000.
(05:51):
So I cleared the debts, Inegotiated with all those
debtors and fast forward a fewyears.
I started to get really focusedon how can I impact my earnings?
Because, look, I'm making$65,000 a year.
Now that's all fine and goodand I'm doing everything the
right way.
I haven't spent money in arestaurant or spent money in a
coffee shop for years, and I didthat for a long time.
(06:13):
But how can I impact myearnings?
Because that's the big leverpoint.
And when things started toreally change for me around my
earnings and you know, I wentfrom 65K to 150K to 250K, to
well beyond that at this point,and the numbers started to look
very different I said to myselfI have acquired a skill set and
(06:33):
a mindset that people on thisplanet need.
Like we all know, people sufferabout money, right?
So at that point I decided tointegrate my economics and my
certified financial plannerdesignation with my deep
compassion and understandingabout money mindset and money
beliefs, and launched my podcast, and it's been off to the races
.
I now own the company.
(06:55):
We're a team of 10 people, ninewomen.
The firm is designed by women,for women and and this earlier
this year I actually hired myhusband.
He's a PhD in finance, so wenow have a chief investment
officer.
So it's been fun.
It's been fun and well-received.
Michelle Gauthier (07:12):
He's the one exception.
He's the one guy who's allowedin the company.
Huh yeah.
Hilary Hendershott (07:16):
That's great .
I love dudes, but we're bywomen for women.
Michelle Gauthier (07:21):
Yeah, exactly Nothing against them.
But well, we're by women forwomen.
Yeah, exactly Nothing againstthem.
But well, I think a couple ofthings before I go on and ask
you some more questions.
That was great.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
I think it is so common.
So if anyone is listening whois overwhelmed by their finances
or just the amount of thingsthey even have to think about to
try to get their financialpicture together, that it's
(07:43):
totally normal.
And your example of a stack ofbills that you didn't even want
to open is some that like thingsof that nature are what I hear
all the time from my clients,where they just don't want to
open the door to that basementthat's full of stuff, or they
just don't want to open thosebills because they know what's
in there.
So I think that's going toresonate with a lot of listeners
(08:03):
.
I also think that you sharingthat you had to, even though you
intellectually knew.
Like if someone else would havesaid, hey, here's my salary,
what should I do with it?
You probably could have said dothis, invest here, do all these
things.
So you intellectually knew howto manage money, but there was
something that was stopping youfrom actually doing it in your
(08:23):
own life and that's so powerful,I think, to share that story.
So what did you as you workedthrough that?
What did you find as thosemoney beliefs or your thoughts
about money?
What was it that was drivingyou to act in a different way
than what you intellectuallyknew how to do?
Hilary Hendershott (08:41):
Oh, that is a really good question and the
answer is we don't often look atthings this way as human beings
, but once you see it, you can'tnot see it.
So money is really, in reality,is a blank canvas.
It is a white wall.
Money has no true nature andit's conceptual.
Really, all money is as anagreement that you can exchange
(09:03):
later for something of value,right like, and only only reason
money continues to work isbecause we all abide by it and
we simplify it like I have acredit card right here, like
like this is money or like adollar bill is money, but those
are not money.
Money is the agreement we alllive in as humans, and kids
can't understand it.
So we adults got bad moneyrelationships from our parents
(09:26):
because they got bad moneyrelationships from their parents
and we unknowingly pass themdown to our kids.
My mother actually has a prettyfunctional relationship with
money, but she was earning anaverage income and just saving a
lot of it.
She was really beingresponsible, and so for me,
there was nothing left to do thethings I wanted to do.
For example, I was on the highschool basketball team and I
(09:47):
wanted everyone on the team hadNike high tops.
I wanted Nike high tops and mymom took me to Payless Shoe
Source and I got Pro Wings.
Do you remember?
Okay, I too was a Paylessshopper.
Yeah, that was embarrassing forme.
I called the cause, I wantedthem to be Nikes, I called them
like, but I made up that there'snever enough money.
(10:07):
And that was true.
For me there's never enoughmoney.
So then, counterintuitively,when you believe there's never
enough money, if someone paysyou $100, what do you have to do
with that $100?
You have to spend it.
You have to spend it, and in mycase, I would spend $110.
Now there's other people whoget $100 and spend $200, right,
but either way it's bad becauseotherwise there becomes enough
(10:31):
money.
If you get paid $100 and $100and $100, pretty soon there's
$1,000 in your bank account andyour mindset that there's never
enough money starts to go.
It gets painful, right, and soI think that's where that saying
money burns a hole in herpocket comes from.
That's what it felt like Everytime money came in.
I already had it spent, somehow, managed magically, I would get
(10:52):
paid one hundred dollars.
I owed someone one hundred andfive over here.
I mean.
Every time.
It was infuriating.
Michelle Gauthier (10:59):
Yes, but I think that's such a good and
perfect example of what webelieve, or what we're thinking,
becomes the truth.
So if, deep down, you werethinking, probably unconsciously
, there's never enough money,the universe makes it so that
there's never enough money.
You don't have the capacity tohave and to believe that there's
always enough money and allthose things.
Hilary Hendershott (11:21):
And you just naturally accept limitations
right, because you think they'refor you.
That's right.
I fit in that really small boxReady, yes, you know.
And you don't negotiate formore or try to get bigger or
better, and I see that all overmy past.
Michelle Gauthier (11:35):
Yes, yes, and I'm sure you see it a lot in
your clients as well.
For me personally, it wasinteresting when I started my
own business, because I had acorporate job before this where
I made great money and I thoughtto myself, okay, it's possible
for me to make that much moneyon my own.
But it was funny because I hada belief that I couldn't make a
lot of money without it beingreally hard and kind of
(11:57):
suffering, like I would have towork a ton of hours and I would
have to, you know, do work thatI didn't really enjoy, and so I
had to work on the belief that Icould do a job that I really
enjoy and that I really wantedto do and also make money.
So I feel like, no matter howfar you come, there's always
like a new ceiling that we haveto believe past before we can
(12:18):
get past it.
Hilary Hendershott (12:21):
Isn't it pervasive?
There's that saying new level,new devil.
Michelle Gauthier (12:25):
Yes, yes, exactly and right when you think
I nailed it, I got this.
I could totally do this.
There's some kind of newfeeling it's never homeostasis I
know, no for sure.
Do you know Jen Sincero, whowrote that book?
You're a badass at making money, so she said it on your desk.
Oh yes, yes, that's one of herbooks.
I love her.
But one of the things she saysin her money book is that by age
(12:47):
seven we have been basicallyprogrammed for our money beliefs
by our parents.
So maybe what you got from yourmom was like you have to save
more than you spend and it'snever okay to spend on something
that's expensive or you knowwhatever that was.
And so I just thought that wassuch an eye opener for me that
we all grew up with these moneybeliefs and we haven't even
(13:09):
investigated them becausethey're just subconscious.
We just get programmed whenwe're kids from our parents and
then we get kind of go alongthat way.
So just wanted to say thatbecause I think that's an
interesting fact.
Hilary Hendershott (13:20):
You know for with my mom and God bless her.
You know I've mentioned her onprobably a thousand podcast
interviews now.
She never wanted her financiallife to be made public, but she
really did well, right.
And the thing for me is thatthe savings wasn't real.
I didn't see it, it wasn'tanything to me and I didn't have
.
As a high school basketballplayer, I didn't have a sense of
(13:43):
what life's going to be likewhen my mom turned 65, how much
money she needs to retire, right.
So one of the things I do tocombat that like, for example, I
show my daughter the restaurantbill and then we talk about how
many hours she would have towork at ten five dollars an hour
to pay for that that dinnerbill.
Michelle Gauthier (14:00):
Right.
Hilary Hendershott (14:00):
I just want her to see it.
When our stock accounts are up,I pull her in front of the
computer.
I'm not sure that's the rightthing.
I'll let you know when sheturns out Right.
Right, it's kind of how I'vetried to answer that question.
Michelle Gauthier (14:18):
Yes, I'm doing the same thing with my
kids as well, and it is funny,my son he's 17 now, but he got
his first job last year and heworked and he was making $13 an
hour, so I helped him figure outyou know what that was going to
be.
Of course, he didn't know abouttaxes and he was like what,
what?
No, what does that go to?
It's such a bummer when youfirst realize like, oh so, this
isn't all mine.
So tell us what you wouldrecommend for people finding out
(14:40):
what are their money blocks andthen how they can try to change
them.
Hilary Hendershott (14:45):
Your money.
I call it your money operatingsystem, and so, like, the
operating system of the computerdictates how the hardware
interacts with the software, andso it's a really great metaphor
for your money belief, yourmoney mindset.
Money mindset is sort of avague term.
Specifically, I'm talking aboutthis very and I'm going to use
the word childish.
It's elementary, it's simple,it's something a child would
(15:06):
believe because you did decideit when you were a kid, and it
is the way money is for you.
It's the water you swim in,it's the air you breathe.
Listen to the things you sayabout money.
You know it's obvious to me inhindsight that what was true for
me, both in my mind and in mybank accounts at that time, is
there is never enough money.
It's very simple, very clear,and then just the sort of
(15:31):
devious behaviors that I wasdoing to continue to perpetuate
that were the aha moment.
It was like, oh my God, look atthe things I've been doing.
Some of the most common moneyoperating systems are there's
never enough money.
Money operating systems arethere's never enough money.
Conversely, there's alwaysenough money.
Now these people have to worryalso because there's always
(15:56):
enough money, as a childishbelief doesn't always verify
that there is enough money,right.
I had a woman one time call me.
She said I just retired, I have$250,000.
I said call your boss back andbeg for your job because you
know not enough.
That's kind of how I picturethere's always enough money.
Also, the sort of common tropesthat we hear about money money
(16:19):
is the root of all evil.
This is a very destructive,painful money operating system
because these folks can't evencome to the table and have like
a shoulder to shoulderegalitarian conversation or
constructive conversation aboutmoney.
Right, because even wantingmoney is bad.
And you know you're the onlyone in the world who's committed
to filling your bank accounts.
(16:39):
I promise you so, if you can'teven be transparent, that you do
want to have a prosperousfinancial life.
You know you're very limited.
Until you unravel thatparticular belief, there is
absolution of responsibility,but of course said like a child
if I'm good, daddy will handleit for me.
Oh gosh, yeah.
And sometimes it's the universeor sometimes it's God.
(17:04):
Right, but these folks reallystruggle because they have
virtuous behavior paired withfinancial success and the money
just doesn't work that way.
I mean, yes, you have to haveintegrity to have your money and
keep it around, but moneyrequires earning, spending,
saving, you know, yeah.
So and then there's the onethat's very common out in the
(17:26):
world is money gives me power,and these are the people who pay
for the dinner bill.
They're the ones who drive thered sports car.
They wear the flashy clothesmaybe when they don't have the
bank account balance, to kind ofjustify it.
I was definitely.
I had this, so that I had twoof them.
When I was little, my parentsgot divorced.
My father said to me I don'twant to pay the child support
because I don't want your motherto have that kind of power over
(17:47):
me.
And I said oh, money is power.
So how that translated was inmy world, I would take you out
and I was trying to buy youraffection.
I wanted you to like me, so Iwould pay for drinks, pay for
dinner, whatever, pay for thevacation with money that I
didn't have, trying to convinceyou that I was a worthwhile
person who was alreadysuccessful.
There's that saying spendingmoney on people you don't like
(18:10):
to prove.
Anyway, spending money, youdon't have to buy friends.
You don't even like somethinglike that.
Michelle Gauthier (18:16):
Great, I haven't heard that before.
That's so good, though, ifanybody's out there doing that
right now.
Hilary Hendershott (18:22):
Oh, there are people doing it, I promise
you.
So those are really the fivemost common ones I hear about.
You know, really, take aninventory, like spend a week,
and write down all the thingsyou say about money, all the
things you think to yourselfabout money.
Mostly we don't, especially ifyou're a female.
We don't talk much about money,we talk about sales right money
(18:46):
.
We talk about sales, right, orwe talk about maybe we talk
about like I'm saving in my 401k, but we don't talk about how
much we're earning.
We don't talk about how we feelabout money.
And so if right now, the onlyperson you talk to about money
is yourself, you have to writedown your thoughts, and I find
that those kinds of thoughtdiaries and, you know,
conversation logs can beabsolutely illuminating when it
comes to isolating your moneyoperating system.
Michelle Gauthier (19:06):
I think that's great, that's such a good
idea.
So if somebody is listening andthey're like, oh, that one cut
me deep, that's me, I'mdefinitely doing that and
they're thinking I already havea million things to do and I'm
overwhelmed.
What am I supposed to do withthis?
What would you suggest thatpeople do?
I heard your first step was isto write down and just get
curious about how you'rethinking about money, what your
(19:28):
operating system might be sayingat a very kid, basic type level
.
What else can they do?
Yeah?
Hilary Hendershott (19:36):
So you know, in life we can either live with
an intimate relationship withwhat's so like reality or we can
live in story.
Right, and as long as you're inan empowered story, more power
to you.
Go live in your story thatyou're the greatest person,
you're the best mom.
I love that for you, Wonderful.
If your money story isn'tworking for you, it is time to
(19:58):
get closer to reality, right?
Because sometimes the moneystory just creates drama and
disempowerment and no money.
So add to your moneyconversation.
Log your money log.
Take stock of your income, yourcurrent savings level.
Where are those savings?
What counts are they in?
Maybe some of you haven't evenopened the portals in years,
(20:19):
right, that's not uncommon.
How much debt do you have?
What are the credit cards thatyou have?
What's the interest rate you'repaying on those credit cards?
Just this activity alone willbe transformational, right, and
as long as you keep moving theneedle.
I mean, look, when I was$570,000 in debt, including the
(20:40):
mortgage, I had a 440 creditscore or something and a $65,000
a year income.
It seemed impossible, but Ipointed my rudder in the right
direction and started to haveexponential leaps forward.
Right, Because I kept my mindsetpressed on how can I move the
(21:00):
lever for myself?
So just know it can happen, butdefinitely take stock of
exactly what you have.
Your focus needs to be onincreasing your net worth every
day or every week, or at leastevery year, right, Rather than
whatever your focus has been onin the past.
And if it helps you toarticulate what you've actually
been focused on, which I wasfocused on buying friends so
(21:22):
that I could, people would loveme pretending that I was already
successful rather than gettingsuccessful.
If it helps you to admit that,great, it helped me, and then
you can get yourself pointed inthe right direction.
Michelle Gauthier (21:35):
Yes, yes.
I just feel like in generalyou're saying just open the
closet and let the monsters comeout, like, see what you're
doing, see where all yourbalances are, see where you have
debt, and then just facing.
That is probably the biggeststep to just admit OK, there's a
problem here.
Hilary Hendershott (21:54):
Here's what it is.
I don't know if it's thebiggest step, like, maybe maybe
tripling your income would be abigger step but it's always it's
always a necessary but notsufficient condition for
financial success.
So, yeah, if, if clarity evergoes out, just go get clarity
again.
Michelle Gauthier (22:11):
Yes, yes, exactly, exactly Okay.
One more question for you.
Something we talk about a loton this podcast is people
pleasing and how women arereally conditioned most of the
time to put others ahead ofthemselves or to do things in
order to make others happy, andyour experience with yourself
and maybe your clients who arewomen which I'm assuming most of
(22:31):
your clients are women Do yousee people pleasing showing up
in people's financial lives?
Hilary Hendershott (22:37):
At this firm, You know, it started about
90% women.
At this point my practice ismore like 60% women, because we
get a lot of cool dudes who justreally want to hang out with us
, definitely.
I've led conversation circleswith women about money, and this
is almost always what comes upis the pain of the internalized
(22:58):
gender roles, and that alsoincludes often, almost always,
the idea of pleasing or beingeasy, being not wanting more
than you have.
Be quiet, don't speak up, don'task for more, be easily pleased,
just put a smile on your face,sister, girl Right, and oh God,
(23:22):
it's a mindset and a practicethat I just, I find myself
wanting, just wanting us to shedourselves up, shed S-H-E-D.
Shed ourselves up.
It.
I mean, and I say that I can'teven say that with enough
intensity, you know, but thething is, we perpetrate it on
ourselves.
If you think about it, you'veeither been the woman and I have
(23:45):
to criticize another woman, oryou sat in a circle of women
who've been criticizing a womanoutside that circle for wanting
more, dressing better, askingfor the promotion, asking for a
divorce, whatever it is.
And so, you know, I see us aswomen also sometimes
perpetrating patriarchy onourselves.
It's an insidious problem andit really is on us to say enough
(24:11):
is enough, right, yeah?
Yeah, the time for this mindsethas come and gone.
Michelle Gauthier (24:16):
That's absolutely right.
I just think the whole conceptof you don't have to be easy and
laid back and willing to takewhatever your pay is anymore.
I don't think we ever did, butmaybe we just didn't have the
words for it.
But the reason why it seemslike women do that at least I
(24:37):
know for sure I did was in orderto be seen as easy to get along
with and nice and everybodylikes me and so I don't need to
ask for that extra thing or Idon't need to want more money
and I think just givingourselves permission to do what
we want, just because you wantto, it's OK to take up space.
It's OK to take up space.
Hilary Hendershott (24:59):
It's OK to want more.
It's OK to want to be big.
It's OK to want to make adifference or have an influence,
or work full time and pay ananny to take care of your kids.
Some of the times it's OK, yeahexactly, exactly.
Michelle Gauthier (25:12):
We don't even have to feel guilty about it.
We can feel like we're inalignment when we're doing all
that.
It's magic.
It's magic, oh my gosh.
Okay, I have two more questionsfor you that I ask everybody
who's a guest on the podcast.
The first one is what issomething that you do when you
feel overwhelmed to makeyourself feel better?
Hilary Hendershott (25:31):
Oh well, first of all, I give myself
permission to lay down.
Okay, I mean, most of us workfrom home at this point, but I'm
in a place in life where I havechosen, in my late forties for
the first time, to choose peacein my soul over being a
workaholic.
And it's not, it's not quitenatural.
(25:53):
Yet I have to remind myself,I'm like, oh, the breathing is
shallow.
I think it's time to lay down,you know, and sometimes it takes
10 minutes or 20 minutes toreally like get back into that
soft belly breathing.
And you know, I mean I have aheart rate monitor so I know
what heart rate I'm targeting,like mid 70s I'm cool with, so
that's something.
And then I use that brain dump,what I call the conversation
(26:16):
log.
I just pull out a piece of paperand I start writing, or I pull
up a Google document and I starttyping, and if it's a
persistent complaint, I type itover and over and over until it
magically sounds like gibberishto me.
And if it's overwhelming allthe things I have to do I just
type them all up and I make surethey're all documented
somewhere until I can, you know,wrap my arms around the task
list.
Now you're the expert.
How did I do?
Michelle Gauthier (26:37):
Amazing, perfect, absolutely perfect.
I think the key is knowyourself what makes you feel
overwhelmed and then what makesyou feel better.
And it sounds like you've gotthat down.
I love that suggestion that youjust gave though that I haven't
heard that one before to justkeep writing down your
complaints until it sounds likegibberish, like just keep
reading it until you're like OK,this is, this is silly, I'm
(26:58):
just going to move on and dosomething else.
I also think, 100 percent ofthe time, things in our head
feel worse than things on apiece of paper.
So anytime you can just get itfrom your brain to a piece of
paper, I feel like you'reguaranteed to feel better.
Yeah, okay.
And then next, what issomething that you do to save
time or to do less?
Hilary Hendershott (27:18):
I have decided in my life to have a
high income so that I can paypeople to do things like errands
and cleaning and repair workand things like that.
So I know that soundssimplistic, like I but but it's.
Michelle Gauthier (27:33):
It actually it sounds kind of profound
because a lot of people, justthe way that you said it to,
like I have chosen to have ahigh income so that I can have
the money to hire people to dothis.
I think being able to say thatand feel nothing about it except
for that's a fact and that's mylife is really a big deal,
because I know lots of peoplewho would feel guilty for even
wanting that and then, well, Icould hire someone, but I really
(27:56):
could do it myself.
So I really think that'sprofound.
Just to say these are thechoices that I have made and
this is how I spend my money.
Hilary Hendershott (28:02):
Yeah, yeah, and it's a choice that informs
so many behaviors andconversations and specifics,
right, because there's a lotthat goes into that having a
boundary about how low I'llallow my paycheck to go, and of
course, as a business owner, Ido have some more input on that
than you know.
I don't have to ask a superiorfor a raise, right, I have to go
earn it, and the other thing.
(28:24):
There's just a lot I don't do.
Michelle Gauthier (28:26):
I mean there's a lot I just don't do.
That's another great answer youjust cross things off your list
and just don't do them.
Yeah.
Hilary Hendershott (28:33):
Yeah, yeah, the ladies here in the resort my
neighborhood I live in a gatedneighborhood they play
pickleball and my chiropractorsaid, oh, pickleball keeps me in
business, right, the injuriesare so expensive and they keep
inviting me out to playpickleball.
And I was considering am Igoing to take the time to be
really good at pickleball,because I'm competitive?
And I finally just decided youknow what?
(28:55):
I'm just not going to playpickleball, I'm just not going
to go.
I'm not going to do it.
If you're going to meet me out,it's going to be for a drink or
a meal, yes, but it won't playfor pickleball, because I don't
want to end up in thechiropractor's office injured
and I don't have time.
Michelle Gauthier (29:08):
Yes, yes, yes exactly, I love that.
One of the things I talk aboutis having a to don't list, so on
your to don't list ispickleball.
Then you know, if anybody everasks you you're like, let me
check my nope, it's on my todon't list.
I don't do that.
One for sure I'm not doing it.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, if people want to knowmore about you, I know first
tell us about your podcast andthen any any other places they
(29:30):
can go if they want to learnmore about money, their thoughts
on money, what some of theirbackstories might be.
Hilary Hendershott (29:37):
Yeah, my podcast if you have room in your
podcast lineup is called Loveyour Money and it's a kind of a
play on words because we talkabout what it would take for
your money to write you a lovenote signed love comma, your
money.
But also it's about being in areciprocal relationship with
your money.
But also it's about being in areciprocal relationship with
your money right, like reallybuilding trust and rapport with
your money, and so that's fun.
(29:57):
We'd love to have you subscribethere.
And then everything I'm doingon the web you can find at
hendershotwealthcom, andHendershot has no C and two Ts.
We'll put that in the shownotes.
You know, as a result of allthis financial growth that I've
done, I really developed a softspot for working with women.
Many of my clients are widows.
(30:19):
Many of my clients areexecutives who never got married
.
My firm is, like I said, bywomen for women, and yet we
don't sacrifice anything interms of investment, performance
or the quality of the serviceand it's been so well
receivedreceived.
It's a very fulfilling.
It's very fulfilling work formy team and I, and we work for
women and couples.
And if you're looking forpotentially looking for a
(30:41):
financial planner to partnerwith.
We'd love to have you visit usand fill out a contact to get on
our schedule.
Michelle Gauthier (30:46):
Okay, awesome , and is that at the same
website?
Hilary Hendershott (30:50):
It is at hendershotwealth.
com/ contact.
Michelle Gauthier (30:53):
Okay, perfect , great.
Thank you so much.
It was so nice to meet you.
Thank you for listening to theOverwhelmed Working Woman
podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegothiercom.
See you next week.
I call it your money operating system.
And so, like, the operatingsystem of the computer dictates
how the hardware interacts withthe software, and so it's a
really great metaphor for yourmoney belief, your money mindset
.
Michelle Gauthier (00:15):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former overwhelmed
working woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences andin each episode you'll get a
strategy to bring more calm,ease and relaxation to your life
(00:39):
.
Hi friend, thanks so much forjoining today.
Today's episode is such a greatreminder that knowing what to
do with money isn't alwaysenough.
I'm talking with guest HilaryHendershott, who owns a wealth
management firm and is a moneymindset expert who went from
advising millionaires on what todo with their money to not
(01:00):
being able to afford gas in herown BMW.
Her story is super honest, alittle jaw-dropping and totally
inspiring.
So when you listen today,you'll start to understand how
early beliefs about money shapeyour behavior as an adult, even
if you're good with money andthe most common subconscious
money operating systems and howto support yours, and then what
(01:24):
to do when you feel overwhelmedjust thinking about your
finances.
I know we've talked about moneybefore on the podcast and I
think it's such an importantthing for us to continue to talk
about because it can be a bigcontributor to overwhelm.
So we talk about guilt andpeople pleasing and how women
are often conditioned to playsmall with money.
Let's jump into the episode andwelcome Hillary.
(01:46):
Hillary, thank you so much forbeing here with us.
Thanks for having me.
This is exciting.
Yes, I'm so glad to have you.
So I always want to know first,tell us about you.
What is your backstory and howdid you get to be this person
who's now doing TED Talks and isseen as not only a financial
advisor but an expert onfinances?
Hilary Hendershott (02:06):
Yeah, I had a very regular up and coming
path line to being a financialadvisor.
I fell in love with economicsin school.
My father was a financialadvisor my whole life.
I tried a couple things in myearly 20s but pretty soon I went
to work for my dad.
He very much wanted me to behis business continuation plan.
(02:27):
As an economics student, I wasthe ultimate pragmatist.
I was like, you know,everything should work out, if
you just work hard, you'll dothe best kind of mindset.
And then and then I foundmyself in a situation.
See, money burned a hole in mypocket and it got to the point
where I was coming home from aday full of advising
(02:48):
multimillionaires on how tobuild investment portfolios, to
a stack of bills on my kitchencounter that I didn't open
because I couldn't pay them.
I didn't have the money to paythem, right.
And it got so bad that one dayI pulled my leased BMW
convertible into the gas stationand my credit cards were maxed
out and my bank account wasempty, so I couldn't even buy
(03:10):
gas.
So I left the BMW at the gasstation.
I walked home and I had a chatwith myself on the way home and
I said, obviously, very clearly,I can see at this age that if I
continue without a violentinterruption of my current
pattern, that my future is goingto be filled with more,
(03:31):
different and worse versions ofthis outcome.
Like I'm going to continue tohave financial emergencies, I'm
going to continue to have badcredit, no savings, people are
going to have to rescue me.
Right, and I said obviously,whatever world I'm functioning
in about my own personalfinances, it doesn't work, my
behavior doesn't work.
So I look at my friends andcolleagues next to me and they
(03:52):
might make the same amount ofmoney as I do, but they're
saving money, they have goodcredit, they're paying cash for
cars.
And I said, what's giving me mybehavior is my psychology.
So it's obviously not my lovefor economics that's going to
save the day.
I'm going to have to become astudent of money psychology.
And I started attendingconferences.
I mean, I got really humble.
I told people in my life whatwas actually happening in my
(04:15):
world.
I remember I attended thislecture and I heard the term
overspender for the first time,and I did not.
I'd never heard that termbefore, but I knew when I heard
it that I was one.
Right.
Michelle Gauthier (04:27):
You identified immediately as an
overspender.
Hilary Hendershott (04:30):
Ding ding ding, like you know, and I've
heard and said the word so manytimes.
It's funny to say that I hadn't.
I knew that day, I'd neverheard it before.
And you know, I got like I said.
I got transparent with my Imean, my father was my boss, so
I told him the dire situation ofmy finances and I got into
right relationship with wealth.
I right-sized my spending byforce.
(04:50):
It was a belt cinching in thebeginning, right, and it took
some time and the beginningparts were painful.
No ifs, ands or buts about it.
I had to have that BMW towedback to the credit union - they
owned it.
It was a lease, like I said itwas.
It was lease.
And I walked in and I handedher the keys and I said here,
this isn't mine anymore.
(05:10):
You know, the look on thiswoman's face was like she said
I've never had anyone do thisbefore.
Well, I wasn't going to get,wait for it to be repossessed.
So here you go.
Yeah, I did a deal in lieu offoreclosure on a condo.
I had one of those mortgageswhere I made the minimum payment
every month and the balancewent up on a monthly basis.
So by the time I let go of thecondo.
(05:31):
The mortgage amount was, youknow, close to the actual fair
market value of the condo, butit had gone from 420 - It was
worth 420,000.
And then, in the real estatecrisis, it got down to $190,000.
So I had $420,000 in debt on acondo that was worth less than
$200,000.
(05:51):
So I cleared the debts, Inegotiated with all those
debtors and fast forward a fewyears.
I started to get really focusedon how can I impact my earnings?
Because, look, I'm making$65,000 a year.
Now that's all fine and goodand I'm doing everything the
right way.
I haven't spent money in arestaurant or spent money in a
coffee shop for years, and I didthat for a long time.
(06:13):
But how can I impact myearnings?
Because that's the big leverpoint.
And when things started toreally change for me around my
earnings and you know, I wentfrom 65K to 150K to 250K, to
well beyond that at this point,and the numbers started to look
very different I said to myselfI have acquired a skill set and
(06:33):
a mindset that people on thisplanet need.
Like we all know, people sufferabout money, right?
So at that point I decided tointegrate my economics and my
certified financial plannerdesignation with my deep
compassion and understandingabout money mindset and money
beliefs, and launched my podcast, and it's been off to the races
.
I now own the company.
(06:55):
We're a team of 10 people, ninewomen.
The firm is designed by women,for women and and this earlier
this year I actually hired myhusband.
He's a PhD in finance, so wenow have a chief investment
officer.
So it's been fun.
It's been fun and well-received.
Michelle Gauthier (07:12):
He's the one exception.
He's the one guy who's allowedin the company.
Huh yeah.
Hilary Hendershott (07:16):
That's great .
I love dudes, but we're bywomen for women.
Michelle Gauthier (07:21):
Yeah, exactly Nothing against them.
But well, we're by women forwomen.
Yeah, exactly Nothing againstthem.
But well, I think a couple ofthings before I go on and ask
you some more questions.
That was great.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
I think it is so common.
So if anyone is listening whois overwhelmed by their finances
or just the amount of thingsthey even have to think about to
try to get their financialpicture together, that it's
(07:43):
totally normal.
And your example of a stack ofbills that you didn't even want
to open is some that like thingsof that nature are what I hear
all the time from my clients,where they just don't want to
open the door to that basementthat's full of stuff, or they
just don't want to open thosebills because they know what's
in there.
So I think that's going toresonate with a lot of listeners
(08:03):
.
I also think that you sharingthat you had to, even though you
intellectually knew.
Like if someone else would havesaid, hey, here's my salary,
what should I do with it?
You probably could have said dothis, invest here, do all these
things.
So you intellectually knew howto manage money, but there was
something that was stopping youfrom actually doing it in your
(08:23):
own life and that's so powerful,I think, to share that story.
So what did you as you workedthrough that?
What did you find as thosemoney beliefs or your thoughts
about money?
What was it that was drivingyou to act in a different way
than what you intellectuallyknew how to do?
Hilary Hendershott (08:41):
Oh, that is a really good question and the
answer is we don't often look atthings this way as human beings
, but once you see it, you can'tnot see it.
So money is really, in reality,is a blank canvas.
It is a white wall.
Money has no true nature andit's conceptual.
Really, all money is as anagreement that you can exchange
(09:03):
later for something of value,right like, and only only reason
money continues to work isbecause we all abide by it and
we simplify it like I have acredit card right here, like
like this is money or like adollar bill is money, but those
are not money.
Money is the agreement we alllive in as humans, and kids
can't understand it.
So we adults got bad moneyrelationships from our parents
(09:26):
because they got bad moneyrelationships from their parents
and we unknowingly pass themdown to our kids.
My mother actually has a prettyfunctional relationship with
money, but she was earning anaverage income and just saving a
lot of it.
She was really beingresponsible, and so for me,
there was nothing left to do thethings I wanted to do.
For example, I was on the highschool basketball team and I
(09:47):
wanted everyone on the team hadNike high tops.
I wanted Nike high tops and mymom took me to Payless Shoe
Source and I got Pro Wings.
Do you remember?
Okay, I too was a Paylessshopper.
Yeah, that was embarrassing forme.
I called the cause, I wantedthem to be Nikes, I called them
like, but I made up that there'snever enough money.
(10:07):
And that was true.
For me there's never enoughmoney.
So then, counterintuitively,when you believe there's never
enough money, if someone paysyou $100, what do you have to do
with that $100?
You have to spend it.
You have to spend it, and in mycase, I would spend $110.
Now there's other people whoget $100 and spend $200, right,
but either way it's bad becauseotherwise there becomes enough
(10:31):
money.
If you get paid $100 and $100and $100, pretty soon there's
$1,000 in your bank account andyour mindset that there's never
enough money starts to go.
It gets painful, right, and soI think that's where that saying
money burns a hole in herpocket comes from.
That's what it felt like Everytime money came in.
I already had it spent, somehow, managed magically, I would get
(10:52):
paid one hundred dollars.
I owed someone one hundred andfive over here.
I mean.
Every time.
It was infuriating.
Michelle Gauthier (10:59):
Yes, but I think that's such a good and
perfect example of what webelieve, or what we're thinking,
becomes the truth.
So if, deep down, you werethinking, probably unconsciously
, there's never enough money,the universe makes it so that
there's never enough money.
You don't have the capacity tohave and to believe that there's
always enough money and allthose things.
Hilary Hendershott (11:21):
And you just naturally accept limitations
right, because you think they'refor you.
That's right.
I fit in that really small boxReady, yes, you know.
And you don't negotiate formore or try to get bigger or
better, and I see that all overmy past.
Michelle Gauthier (11:35):
Yes, yes, and I'm sure you see it a lot in
your clients as well.
For me personally, it wasinteresting when I started my
own business, because I had acorporate job before this where
I made great money and I thoughtto myself, okay, it's possible
for me to make that much moneyon my own.
But it was funny because I hada belief that I couldn't make a
lot of money without it beingreally hard and kind of
(11:57):
suffering, like I would have towork a ton of hours and I would
have to, you know, do work thatI didn't really enjoy, and so I
had to work on the belief that Icould do a job that I really
enjoy and that I really wantedto do and also make money.
So I feel like, no matter howfar you come, there's always
like a new ceiling that we haveto believe past before we can
(12:18):
get past it.
Hilary Hendershott (12:21):
Isn't it pervasive?
There's that saying new level,new devil.
Michelle Gauthier (12:25):
Yes, yes, exactly and right when you think
I nailed it, I got this.
I could totally do this.
There's some kind of newfeeling it's never homeostasis I
know, no for sure.
Do you know Jen Sincero, whowrote that book?
You're a badass at making money, so she said it on your desk.
Oh yes, yes, that's one of herbooks.
I love her.
But one of the things she saysin her money book is that by age
(12:47):
seven we have been basicallyprogrammed for our money beliefs
by our parents.
So maybe what you got from yourmom was like you have to save
more than you spend and it'snever okay to spend on something
that's expensive or you knowwhatever that was.
And so I just thought that wassuch an eye opener for me that
we all grew up with these moneybeliefs and we haven't even
(13:09):
investigated them becausethey're just subconscious.
We just get programmed whenwe're kids from our parents and
then we get kind of go alongthat way.
So just wanted to say thatbecause I think that's an
interesting fact.
Hilary Hendershott (13:20):
You know for with my mom and God bless her.
You know I've mentioned her onprobably a thousand podcast
interviews now.
She never wanted her financiallife to be made public, but she
really did well, right.
And the thing for me is thatthe savings wasn't real.
I didn't see it, it wasn'tanything to me and I didn't have
.
As a high school basketballplayer, I didn't have a sense of
(13:43):
what life's going to be likewhen my mom turned 65, how much
money she needs to retire, right.
So one of the things I do tocombat that like, for example, I
show my daughter the restaurantbill and then we talk about how
many hours she would have towork at ten five dollars an hour
to pay for that that dinnerbill.
Michelle Gauthier (14:00):
Right.
Hilary Hendershott (14:00):
I just want her to see it.
When our stock accounts are up,I pull her in front of the
computer.
I'm not sure that's the rightthing.
I'll let you know when sheturns out Right.
Right, it's kind of how I'vetried to answer that question.
Michelle Gauthier (14:18):
Yes, I'm doing the same thing with my
kids as well, and it is funny,my son he's 17 now, but he got
his first job last year and heworked and he was making $13 an
hour, so I helped him figure outyou know what that was going to
be.
Of course, he didn't know abouttaxes and he was like what,
what?
No, what does that go to?
It's such a bummer when youfirst realize like, oh so, this
isn't all mine.
So tell us what you wouldrecommend for people finding out
(14:40):
what are their money blocks andthen how they can try to change
them.
Hilary Hendershott (14:45):
Your money.
I call it your money operatingsystem, and so, like, the
operating system of the computerdictates how the hardware
interacts with the software, andso it's a really great metaphor
for your money belief, yourmoney mindset.
Money mindset is sort of avague term.
Specifically, I'm talking aboutthis very and I'm going to use
the word childish.
It's elementary, it's simple,it's something a child would
(15:06):
believe because you did decideit when you were a kid, and it
is the way money is for you.
It's the water you swim in,it's the air you breathe.
Listen to the things you sayabout money.
You know it's obvious to me inhindsight that what was true for
me, both in my mind and in mybank accounts at that time, is
there is never enough money.
It's very simple, very clear,and then just the sort of
(15:31):
devious behaviors that I wasdoing to continue to perpetuate
that were the aha moment.
It was like, oh my God, look atthe things I've been doing.
Some of the most common moneyoperating systems are there's
never enough money.
Money operating systems arethere's never enough money.
Conversely, there's alwaysenough money.
Now these people have to worryalso because there's always
(15:56):
enough money, as a childishbelief doesn't always verify
that there is enough money,right.
I had a woman one time call me.
She said I just retired, I have$250,000.
I said call your boss back andbeg for your job because you
know not enough.
That's kind of how I picturethere's always enough money.
Also, the sort of common tropesthat we hear about money money
(16:19):
is the root of all evil.
This is a very destructive,painful money operating system
because these folks can't evencome to the table and have like
a shoulder to shoulderegalitarian conversation or
constructive conversation aboutmoney.
Right, because even wantingmoney is bad.
And you know you're the onlyone in the world who's committed
to filling your bank accounts.
(16:39):
I promise you so, if you can'teven be transparent, that you do
want to have a prosperousfinancial life.
You know you're very limited.
Until you unravel thatparticular belief, there is
absolution of responsibility,but of course said like a child
if I'm good, daddy will handleit for me.
Oh gosh, yeah.
And sometimes it's the universeor sometimes it's God.
(17:04):
Right, but these folks reallystruggle because they have
virtuous behavior paired withfinancial success and the money
just doesn't work that way.
I mean, yes, you have to haveintegrity to have your money and
keep it around, but moneyrequires earning, spending,
saving, you know, yeah.
So and then there's the onethat's very common out in the
(17:26):
world is money gives me power,and these are the people who pay
for the dinner bill.
They're the ones who drive thered sports car.
They wear the flashy clothesmaybe when they don't have the
bank account balance, to kind ofjustify it.
I was definitely.
I had this, so that I had twoof them.
When I was little, my parentsgot divorced.
My father said to me I don'twant to pay the child support
because I don't want your motherto have that kind of power over
(17:47):
me.
And I said oh, money is power.
So how that translated was inmy world, I would take you out
and I was trying to buy youraffection.
I wanted you to like me, so Iwould pay for drinks, pay for
dinner, whatever, pay for thevacation with money that I
didn't have, trying to convinceyou that I was a worthwhile
person who was alreadysuccessful.
There's that saying spendingmoney on people you don't like
(18:10):
to prove.
Anyway, spending money, youdon't have to buy friends.
You don't even like somethinglike that.
Michelle Gauthier (18:16):
Great, I haven't heard that before.
That's so good, though, ifanybody's out there doing that
right now.
Hilary Hendershott (18:22):
Oh, there are people doing it, I promise
you.
So those are really the fivemost common ones I hear about.
You know, really, take aninventory, like spend a week,
and write down all the thingsyou say about money, all the
things you think to yourselfabout money.
Mostly we don't, especially ifyou're a female.
We don't talk much about money,we talk about sales right money
(18:46):
.
We talk about sales, right, orwe talk about maybe we talk
about like I'm saving in my 401k, but we don't talk about how
much we're earning.
We don't talk about how we feelabout money.
And so if right now, the onlyperson you talk to about money
is yourself, you have to writedown your thoughts, and I find
that those kinds of thoughtdiaries and, you know,
conversation logs can beabsolutely illuminating when it
comes to isolating your moneyoperating system.
Michelle Gauthier (19:06):
I think that's great, that's such a good
idea.
So if somebody is listening andthey're like, oh, that one cut
me deep, that's me, I'mdefinitely doing that and
they're thinking I already havea million things to do and I'm
overwhelmed.
What am I supposed to do withthis?
What would you suggest thatpeople do?
I heard your first step was isto write down and just get
curious about how you'rethinking about money, what your
(19:28):
operating system might be sayingat a very kid, basic type level
.
What else can they do?
Yeah?
Hilary Hendershott (19:36):
So you know, in life we can either live with
an intimate relationship withwhat's so like reality or we can
live in story.
Right, and as long as you're inan empowered story, more power
to you.
Go live in your story thatyou're the greatest person,
you're the best mom.
I love that for you, Wonderful.
If your money story isn'tworking for you, it is time to
(19:58):
get closer to reality, right?
Because sometimes the moneystory just creates drama and
disempowerment and no money.
So add to your moneyconversation.
Log your money log.
Take stock of your income, yourcurrent savings level.
Where are those savings?
What counts are they in?
Maybe some of you haven't evenopened the portals in years,
(20:19):
right, that's not uncommon.
How much debt do you have?
What are the credit cards thatyou have?
What's the interest rate you'repaying on those credit cards?
Just this activity alone willbe transformational, right, and
as long as you keep moving theneedle.
I mean, look, when I was$570,000 in debt, including the
(20:40):
mortgage, I had a 440 creditscore or something and a $65,000
a year income.
It seemed impossible, but Ipointed my rudder in the right
direction and started to haveexponential leaps forward.
Right, Because I kept my mindsetpressed on how can I move the
(21:00):
lever for myself?
So just know it can happen, butdefinitely take stock of
exactly what you have.
Your focus needs to be onincreasing your net worth every
day or every week, or at leastevery year, right, Rather than
whatever your focus has been onin the past.
And if it helps you toarticulate what you've actually
been focused on, which I wasfocused on buying friends so
(21:22):
that I could, people would loveme pretending that I was already
successful rather than gettingsuccessful.
If it helps you to admit that,great, it helped me, and then
you can get yourself pointed inthe right direction.
Michelle Gauthier (21:35):
Yes, yes.
I just feel like in generalyou're saying just open the
closet and let the monsters comeout, like, see what you're
doing, see where all yourbalances are, see where you have
debt, and then just facing.
That is probably the biggeststep to just admit OK, there's a
problem here.
Hilary Hendershott (21:54):
Here's what it is.
I don't know if it's thebiggest step, like, maybe maybe
tripling your income would be abigger step but it's always it's
always a necessary but notsufficient condition for
financial success.
So, yeah, if, if clarity evergoes out, just go get clarity
again.
Michelle Gauthier (22:11):
Yes, yes, exactly, exactly Okay.
One more question for you.
Something we talk about a loton this podcast is people
pleasing and how women arereally conditioned most of the
time to put others ahead ofthemselves or to do things in
order to make others happy, andyour experience with yourself
and maybe your clients who arewomen which I'm assuming most of
(22:31):
your clients are women Do yousee people pleasing showing up
in people's financial lives?
Hilary Hendershott (22:37):
At this firm, You know, it started about
90% women.
At this point my practice ismore like 60% women, because we
get a lot of cool dudes who justreally want to hang out with us
, definitely.
I've led conversation circleswith women about money, and this
is almost always what comes upis the pain of the internalized
(22:58):
gender roles, and that alsoincludes often, almost always,
the idea of pleasing or beingeasy, being not wanting more
than you have.
Be quiet, don't speak up, don'task for more, be easily pleased,
just put a smile on your face,sister, girl Right, and oh God,
(23:22):
it's a mindset and a practicethat I just, I find myself
wanting, just wanting us to shedourselves up, shed S-H-E-D.
Shed ourselves up.
It.
I mean, and I say that I can'teven say that with enough
intensity, you know, but thething is, we perpetrate it on
ourselves.
If you think about it, you'veeither been the woman and I have
(23:45):
to criticize another woman, oryou sat in a circle of women
who've been criticizing a womanoutside that circle for wanting
more, dressing better, askingfor the promotion, asking for a
divorce, whatever it is.
And so, you know, I see us aswomen also sometimes
perpetrating patriarchy onourselves.
It's an insidious problem andit really is on us to say enough
(24:11):
is enough, right, yeah?
Yeah, the time for this mindsethas come and gone.
Michelle Gauthier (24:16):
That's absolutely right.
I just think the whole conceptof you don't have to be easy and
laid back and willing to takewhatever your pay is anymore.
I don't think we ever did, butmaybe we just didn't have the
words for it.
But the reason why it seemslike women do that at least I
(24:37):
know for sure I did was in orderto be seen as easy to get along
with and nice and everybodylikes me and so I don't need to
ask for that extra thing or Idon't need to want more money
and I think just givingourselves permission to do what
we want, just because you wantto, it's OK to take up space.
It's OK to take up space.
Hilary Hendershott (24:59):
It's OK to want more.
It's OK to want to be big.
It's OK to want to make adifference or have an influence,
or work full time and pay ananny to take care of your kids.
Some of the times it's OK, yeahexactly, exactly.
Michelle Gauthier (25:12):
We don't even have to feel guilty about it.
We can feel like we're inalignment when we're doing all
that.
It's magic.
It's magic, oh my gosh.
Okay, I have two more questionsfor you that I ask everybody
who's a guest on the podcast.
The first one is what issomething that you do when you
feel overwhelmed to makeyourself feel better?
Hilary Hendershott (25:31):
Oh well, first of all, I give myself
permission to lay down.
Okay, I mean, most of us workfrom home at this point, but I'm
in a place in life where I havechosen, in my late forties for
the first time, to choose peacein my soul over being a
workaholic.
And it's not, it's not quitenatural.
(25:53):
Yet I have to remind myself,I'm like, oh, the breathing is
shallow.
I think it's time to lay down,you know, and sometimes it takes
10 minutes or 20 minutes toreally like get back into that
soft belly breathing.
And you know, I mean I have aheart rate monitor so I know
what heart rate I'm targeting,like mid 70s I'm cool with, so
that's something.
And then I use that brain dump,what I call the conversation
(26:16):
log.
I just pull out a piece of paperand I start writing, or I pull
up a Google document and I starttyping, and if it's a
persistent complaint, I type itover and over and over until it
magically sounds like gibberishto me.
And if it's overwhelming allthe things I have to do I just
type them all up and I make surethey're all documented
somewhere until I can, you know,wrap my arms around the task
list.
Now you're the expert.
How did I do?
Michelle Gauthier (26:37):
Amazing, perfect, absolutely perfect.
I think the key is knowyourself what makes you feel
overwhelmed and then what makesyou feel better.
And it sounds like you've gotthat down.
I love that suggestion that youjust gave though that I haven't
heard that one before to justkeep writing down your
complaints until it sounds likegibberish, like just keep
reading it until you're like OK,this is, this is silly, I'm
(26:58):
just going to move on and dosomething else.
I also think, 100 percent ofthe time, things in our head
feel worse than things on apiece of paper.
So anytime you can just get itfrom your brain to a piece of
paper, I feel like you'reguaranteed to feel better.
Yeah, okay.
And then next, what issomething that you do to save
time or to do less?
Hilary Hendershott (27:18):
I have decided in my life to have a
high income so that I can paypeople to do things like errands
and cleaning and repair workand things like that.
So I know that soundssimplistic, like I but but it's.
Michelle Gauthier (27:33):
It actually it sounds kind of profound
because a lot of people, justthe way that you said it to,
like I have chosen to have ahigh income so that I can have
the money to hire people to dothis.
I think being able to say thatand feel nothing about it except
for that's a fact and that's mylife is really a big deal,
because I know lots of peoplewho would feel guilty for even
wanting that and then, well, Icould hire someone, but I really
(27:56):
could do it myself.
So I really think that'sprofound.
Just to say these are thechoices that I have made and
this is how I spend my money.
Hilary Hendershott (28:02):
Yeah, yeah, and it's a choice that informs
so many behaviors andconversations and specifics,
right, because there's a lotthat goes into that having a
boundary about how low I'llallow my paycheck to go, and of
course, as a business owner, Ido have some more input on that
than you know.
I don't have to ask a superiorfor a raise, right, I have to go
earn it, and the other thing.
(28:24):
There's just a lot I don't do.
Michelle Gauthier (28:26):
I mean there's a lot I just don't do.
That's another great answer youjust cross things off your list
and just don't do them.
Yeah.
Hilary Hendershott (28:33):
Yeah, yeah, the ladies here in the resort my
neighborhood I live in a gatedneighborhood they play
pickleball and my chiropractorsaid, oh, pickleball keeps me in
business, right, the injuriesare so expensive and they keep
inviting me out to playpickleball.
And I was considering am Igoing to take the time to be
really good at pickleball,because I'm competitive?
And I finally just decided youknow what?
(28:55):
I'm just not going to playpickleball, I'm just not going
to go.
I'm not going to do it.
If you're going to meet me out,it's going to be for a drink or
a meal, yes, but it won't playfor pickleball, because I don't
want to end up in thechiropractor's office injured
and I don't have time.
Michelle Gauthier (29:08):
Yes, yes, yes exactly, I love that.
One of the things I talk aboutis having a to don't list, so on
your to don't list ispickleball.
Then you know, if anybody everasks you you're like, let me
check my nope, it's on my todon't list.
I don't do that.
One for sure I'm not doing it.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, if people want to knowmore about you, I know first
tell us about your podcast andthen any any other places they
(29:30):
can go if they want to learnmore about money, their thoughts
on money, what some of theirbackstories might be.
Hilary Hendershott (29:37):
Yeah, my podcast if you have room in your
podcast lineup is called Loveyour Money and it's a kind of a
play on words because we talkabout what it would take for
your money to write you a lovenote signed love comma, your
money.
But also it's about being in areciprocal relationship with
your money.
But also it's about being in areciprocal relationship with
your money right, like reallybuilding trust and rapport with
your money, and so that's fun.
(29:57):
We'd love to have you subscribethere.
And then everything I'm doingon the web you can find at
hendershotwealthcom, andHendershot has no C and two Ts.
We'll put that in the shownotes.
You know, as a result of allthis financial growth that I've
done, I really developed a softspot for working with women.
Many of my clients are widows.
(30:19):
Many of my clients areexecutives who never got married
.
My firm is, like I said, bywomen for women, and yet we
don't sacrifice anything interms of investment, performance
or the quality of the serviceand it's been so well
receivedreceived.
It's a very fulfilling.
It's very fulfilling work formy team and I, and we work for
women and couples.
And if you're looking forpotentially looking for a
(30:41):
financial planner to partnerwith.
We'd love to have you visit usand fill out a contact to get on
our schedule.
Michelle Gauthier (30:46):
Okay, awesome , and is that at the same
website?
Hilary Hendershott (30:50):
It is at hendershotwealth.
com/ contact.
Michelle Gauthier (30:53):
Okay, perfect , great.
Thank you so much.
It was so nice to meet you.
Thank you for listening to theOverwhelmed Working Woman
podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegothiercom.
See you next week.
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