Ever hit a huge career milestone and feel… nothing? If your hard-earned success still leaves you flat, this episode will completely shift how you think about achievement, planning, and presence.
So many ambitious women feel overwhelmed by “productivity hacks” that just add more pressure. Danielle McGeough, PhD and creator of the RISE Ritual Method, shares how she escaped burnout by transforming her approach from control to connection — replacing rigid time management with meaningful rituals that actually make life richer and more fun.
In this episode, you will:
- Discover the simple difference between habits and rituals — and why it matters for your happiness.
- Learn how to design daily rituals that match your energy, reduce overwhelm, and restore your sense of purpose.
- Get inspired to plan your days in a way that feels playful, present, and deeply aligned with your values.
Press play now to learn how the RISE Ritual Method can help you swap burnout for balance — and finally make planning something you actually look forward to.
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Life can be overwhelming, but on this podcast, you'll discover practical strategies to overcome overwhelm, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk, manage time effectively, set boundaries, and stay productive in high-stress jobs—all while learning how to say no and prioritize self-care on the Overwhelmed Worki...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DanielleMcGeough (00:00):
If you are in a space where you're feeling
flat, you feel like you're justchecking off all the boxes, more
habits is not going to add moremeaning to your life.
MichelleGauthier (00:14):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences.
And in each episode, you'll geta strategy to bring more calm,
(00:35):
ease, and relaxation to yourlife.
Hi, friend.
I have a very interestingepisode for you today.
I'm joined by DanielleMcGeough, and she is the creator
of something called the RiseRitual Method.
And she offers sort of arefreshing perspective on how to
plan your time and how to avoidburnout before it happens to
(00:58):
you.
And instead of filing on habitsand routines, she shows us how
simple intentional ritualsinstead of routines can help us
connect with our values andshift our energy and just bring
more joy into everyday life.
I loved this conversation andshe helped me come up with a
great new ritual that I've beendoing ever since I interviewed
(01:19):
her.
When you listen today, you'lllearn the difference between
habits and rituals.
I did not know the difference,and why rituals are key when
you're feeling sort of flat ordisconnected, and then how to
identify if you're experiencingburnout or just demoralization
and what to do about it.
And then practical ways tocreate your own rituals that
(01:40):
make transitions smoother fromwork to home or stress to calm.
And she's just has such a funpersonality, and many of her
suggestions are about justbringing more fun and lightness
into your life, which I justthoroughly believe is a very
important part of our way tooserious life.
If you're looking for a moremeaningful, energized way to
(02:02):
move through your day, this isthe episode for you.
Welcome, Danielle.
Thanks so much for joining thepodcast today.
All the overwhelmed workingwomen listening are going to be
so excited to hear what you haveto say.
I'm really excited to learnabout your RISE framework that
you use and how you use ritualsto help people get unstuck.
So I can't wait to hear aboutall that.
(02:24):
But first, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
How did you get started doingthis type of work?
DanielleMcGeough (02:29):
So growing up, I was the weird kid.
I was really weird.
And all of my report cardsdescribe me as unique.
And I was definitely not asmart kid.
But for some reason, when I was20, I decided I wanted to get a
PhD.
And everyone was like, hmm,that's an interesting choice,
Danielle.
And because then I was theweird kid and I didn't think of
(02:54):
myself as a smart kid, as I didall the things that one needs to
do to get a PhD, get themaster's degree, go to school,
get the tenure track job, likeall that stuff.
I told myself that in order todo it, I was gonna have to work
twice as hard.
And so by the time I was 35, Ihad just had my first kiddo, and
my second kiddo was on the way,and I learned that I did earn
(03:17):
tenure, which was the goal I'dbeen working towards my entire
adult life.
And you know what?
I just didn't flipping care.
I didn't care.
Dang, I felt nothing.
I felt flat.
I felt empty.
I had no idea what was next.
I felt so disconnected anddisassociated from all of the
(03:37):
things that you know.
If you would ask me, well,Danielle, what do you enjoy
doing for fun?
I would stay with what whatfun?
No.
And and I just knew that that'snot how I wanted to continue to
live.
I'm a pretty playful person.
I've always wanted to live areally rich, expansive life, and
that was not the path that Iwas on.
Somewhere along the way, I hadjust started checking off boxes
(04:01):
and it left me flat.
MichelleGauthier (04:04):
That is such a bummer, especially when you've
been working so hard for it, andyou're like, oh shoot.
And I thought this was gonna bethe path, but this is not the
path.
DanielleMcGeough (04:15):
No, and you know, I remember they were
having a big dinner actually forus to celebrate everyone that
had gotten promotions.
And I remember being so tickedoff that I had to get a sitter,
dress up nice, and go to work onat a time that was not my work
time so that they can celebrateme.
(04:36):
And I, you know, I was like,you know, Danielle, this is
probably a sign that somethingisn't right.
MichelleGauthier (04:41):
Yeah, yes.
Good job listening to Daniellein that case.
Okay, so then what did you do?
DanielleMcGeough (04:48):
Well, so I had a student give a presentation
on decorative planning, and shepulled out this beautiful
planner that had stickers anddoodles and all sorts of things
on it, and she was explainingthat her therapist had
recommended that she usedecorative planning as a way to
help manage her anxiety.
(05:09):
Basically, she wasn't doing anyscheduling, she wasn't creating
a to-do list or doing any ofthose things that would help her
because every time she did, shejust felt absolutely
overwhelmed.
So I don't know if any of youall have sat down and you're
like, okay, I'm gonna write myto-do list.
And rather than it creatingclarity, you just feel like, oh
my gosh, it just keeps going.
MichelleGauthier (05:30):
Absolutely.
That's something I hear all thetime.
So I can feel everyone shakingtheir heads, yes, along with
you.
DanielleMcGeough (05:37):
And so it was like, okay, stickers are fun.
Let's go.
Why not?
And at the time I was dealingwith a lot of anxiety and I was
waking up in the middle of thenight, and I thought, you know
what?
I'm just gonna get out somestickers in the middle of the
night, and we're gonna do someplanning.
And as I did that, I started torealize though, that planning
(06:00):
for me was less about control.
It was less about timemanagement, and it was more
about me learning about myself.
It was about reconnecting.
Well, what are my values andwhy am I not living them on my
calendar every week?
And, you know, what is going onhere?
That whenever I have theseitems on my calendar, I feel
(06:20):
absolutely drained afterwards.
And so for me, planning becamemore about personal revelation
than about control or managementof anything.
So that's really kind of how Icame to this.
And I started hosting planningparties at the university, I
started hosting planning partiesin the community.
I had a group of goal get themgirls where we were just getting
(06:44):
together and cheering eachother on and supporting each
other.
And and I just had so much tosay.
I thought I'd start a podcast,and then you know, I don't know,
it all unfolded.
MichelleGauthier (06:53):
Yes, yes, and here you are with your podcast
in the top 1.5% now, right?
DanielleMcGeough (06:59):
Yeah, it's it's bananas.
MichelleGauthier (07:01):
Yes, it's so crazy.
Oh my gosh.
Yes, it's funny for people whodon't have a podcast.
When you sit down and yourecord, especially when you're
by yourself, and in my case, I'mlike doing it in my house, in
my office, and then all of asudden you're like, so all these
people actually listen, theyhear this.
It's crazy, it's a weirdfeeling.
DanielleMcGeough (07:19):
It really is.
It's yes, it's also such a joyand and such an awesome way to
connect with people.
So I'm tickled that you'reletting me into your little
world.
MichelleGauthier (07:29):
Yes, it is.
It's so great.
Okay, so one thing I want topick up on before we start
talking through your methodologyis the approach.
A lot of times we talk aboutgetting things done, getting our
time squared away, and it comesfrom like a forcing energy.
Like I've got to shove all thisstuff into time blocks and then
(07:50):
I've got to knock it out.
And I'm sure there is somevalue to that.
And if if you are doing thatand that works for you, that's
great.
But I love that you werethinking about it in a
completely different way, almostlike that you weren't actually
planning.
You were just understandingyourself, your values, how you
liked to spend your time.
And for example, you know,starting a planning party
(08:12):
because it sounded like fun, orstarting a podcast because it
sounded interesting is such afresh look on time management.
Yeah.
DanielleMcGeough (08:22):
And well, I think that I came to it, and I
think a lot of the people that Iwork with now feel like goal
setting, for example, justsounds like adding more pressure
to your already pressure-filledlife.
So when I, you know, I wantedto set goals because I was
trying to figure out what wasnext, but I was just like, holy
(08:43):
smokes, like, really, we'regonna add something more to the
mix.
Yeah, and it felt so heavy.
And so it had never occurred tome that, well, maybe my goal is
to go on a mini date with myhusband once a week, or maybe my
goal is to create more space inmy calendar, or maybe my goal
(09:03):
is to go around the lazy river93 times this summer with my
kids.
Yeah, and I just had neverthought that like, well, like
make it delightful, you dingbat.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
MichelleGauthier (09:15):
Exactly.
Okay, so so far I'm taking awaytwo things from you that
everybody listening can takeaway.
Number one, if you workedreally hard for a goal and you
got to that goal and it wasn'tthe thing, you can still have a
delightful life.
It's never too late.
Just you can lean into what youreally like and what you're
interested in.
And then the second thing isyou can think about time
management as also beinginteresting and fun and having
(09:39):
goals that sound good to you.
Okay, so now tell us the how.
How do you teach people to dothat?
DanielleMcGeough (09:47):
Yeah, so one of the things that I have people
start with is I actually havethem create a ritual.
And the reason for this isrituals help transition us from
one state to another.
And I want people to have alittle container, if you will,
for their planning.
And so, really quickly, when wethink about making our lives
(10:09):
better, if you're anoverachiever, you may have found
yourself going, you know what,I'm just gonna habit my way out
of this, right?
I'm gonna create more habits,we're gonna stack some more
habits, we're gonna get somegood routines, and then maybe my
life is gonna feel easier.
And that's very much where Iwas.
And it took me a really longtime to realize this because in
(10:30):
my own research, I'd beenstudying this, but I just hadn't
made the connection that habitsreally are designed to
eventually become unconscious.
Whereas rituals are designed toactually evoke presence and to
transition us from one state toanother.
MichelleGauthier (10:46):
And so I love that.
I want to like highlight that.
Say that one more time foreverybody so they're clear on
the difference.
DanielleMcGeough (10:55):
So habits, they're really helpful.
I don't think that habits arebad.
I just think that we need todiscern where in our lives do we
want to consciously have habitsthat become become unconscious,
and where in our lives do wewant to have rituals?
So the nice thing about habitsis they they do eventually let
us work on autopilot.
(11:16):
But if you are in a space whereyou're feeling flat, you feel
like you're just checking offall the boxes, more habits is
not going to add more meaning toyour life.
So for me, doing the dishesabsolutely can be a habit.
Like bring it on.
I don't need to be present forit.
Sorry, Trin Nakhan, who talksabout the mindfulness of doing
(11:37):
the dishes.
For me, I'm good to pop in aheadphone, listen to a good
podcast like this one, and tozone out and get the work done.
You know, but when it comes tothinking about my time, I don't
want that to become just like ahabit that I look at my
calendar, check, check, check, Imake my to-do list, check,
(11:57):
check, check.
I want to be present, I want tobe intentional, and I want it
to be conscious.
And so that's where I reallythink about a ritual being
something that can transition mefrom one state to another.
MichelleGauthier (12:09):
Okay, I love that.
Perfect.
So you encourage people, ifthey're feeling stuck, to think
about rituals versus habits.
Absolutely.
DanielleMcGeough (12:19):
So I like people to pinpoint different
places in their day that theymight be in a space of
transition.
And that's where rituals areespecially helpful.
So when you wake up in themorning, if you already have a
morning routine, what it wouldbe like to transition that,
adapt that into a morningritual.
(12:42):
If you at the end of yourworkday have a busy brain, and
it's really hard for you to shutoff work brain, you're after
school picking up your kids orat the park, you're thinking
about everything that you needto do at the office.
Well, how can we use a ritualto actually aid us in that
transition so that we can bepresent for our families and
(13:04):
shut work brain off, but alsohave some confidence that when
we show up at work the nextmorning, we can turn it back on.
MichelleGauthier (13:12):
Yeah.
Yeah. So what do you recommend?
DanielleMcGeough (13:13):
S So I teach something called the rise ritual
method.
And it is fun and simple anddelightful.
So the first part of it isreflect.
So I like people to reflect andsay, well, what is the state
that you're in?
And what's your desired state?
So, for example, it's afterwork you feel like busy Betty
(13:38):
and you want to be relaxed,Rita.
How do you just name that?
In the morning, I wake up and Iam actually.
I wake up and I'm like, let'sgo, let's go, let's go.
For my husband, he wakes up andhe's groggy and he's grumpy and
he's slow.
And so I need a morning ritualthat grounds me.
I need something to pull medown, to get me focused, to take
(14:02):
all the stuff that's buzzingaround my head and pull it
together.
Where for my husband, he needsa ritual that's going to amp him
up.
He needs something that's goingto energize him, something
that's going to bring up hisstate and that's going to just
give him focus by beingenergized.
So how we design those ritualsis going to be different, but we
(14:24):
first need to be able toreflect and name what is our
current state and what's thedesired state that we want to
move to.
MichelleGauthier (14:31):
I love that.
That's so great.
I actually talk to my clients alot about transitioning from
work to home.
And I've never consideredexactly what you're saying,
which is like, what energy areyou in?
Maybe you're in the energy ofexhaustion and you need a ritual
that will give you more energy,or maybe you need to relax or
whatever it is.
(14:52):
But I love that idea.
That's such a great idea.
DanielleMcGeough (14:54):
Yeah.
And then so from there, youintentionally plan.
And that is just kind of namingthe when and where of your
ritual.
So when are you going to doyour ritual?
How long do you want to do itfor?
Where are you going to do it?
And as you make thosedecisions, you also want those
decisions to help move youcloser to that desired state
(15:17):
that you're going for.
So, for example, I do like tohave a morning ritual that I
have a one-minute version of,one that I have like a 15-minute
version of, and I have anhour-long cozy version of.
And depending on my day, likethis morning, I had a meeting
that was earlier than Itypically have to go to meetings
(15:38):
for.
I needed to have a quickermorning ritual, but it still has
those elements there to move methere.
I want to think about where I'mgoing to do my ritual.
If at all possible, can I do itin a space that's going to
invite that desired state thatI'm working to move to?
But I would also say make iteasy.
(16:00):
Yes.
You know, do it where you'remost likely to be consistent
with it.
So the client that I was justactually referencing before,
busy Betty moves to relaxedRita, she is a teacher, and she
needed a way to turn off herbrain after work and then to
kind of just reset before shewent into her home.
(16:22):
So we actually created a littleritual box that she kept in her
car and she'd pull into herdriveway, actually do a quick
ritual in her garage in thedriveway, and then she would go
into her home.
Because that was a way that sheknew that she could do it.
Because if she tried to do itat work, people would interrupt
her.
But if she tried to do it whenshe first got home, kids would
(16:43):
be all over.
MichelleGauthier (16:44):
Yes.
DanielleMcGeough (16:45):
Yeah.
So, you know, do it where youcan.
MichelleGauthier (16:48):
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
So, what was in her box?
DanielleMcGeough (16:51):
If you can share.
Okay.
So the next part of the riseritual method is the S, which is
sensory activation.
Okay.
And so one of the things that'show do we make this a fully
embodied experience?
And how do we invite thesenses?
And so for Busy Betty moving torelax Rita, I do believe that
(17:12):
she had, she decided to use, Ithink, some sort of lotion she
put on her hand, baby, thatsmelled really, really good.
She has that tactile experiencetoo of putting it on her hands.
Were pen snobs?
So I remember she and I havinga conversation about choosing
(17:33):
the right pen that she could,you know, keep from her kids
stealing from her in her car andmaking sure that she was
pairing it with paper that justfelt juicy to write on.
And so, how do you kind ofcreate these sensorial
experiences that one move you tothe state that you want to be
in, but also just feel good?
And so, you know, for somepeople, their ritual might
(17:57):
include tactile things.
For others, it might be smellor sound.
She might have also beenplaying some music on her drive
home that kind of helped her getin the state before she started
her ritual.
And, you know, for example, inthe morning, I have a cozy
blanket that's super, super softthat I use as part of my
morning ritual.
(18:18):
And that's great because ithelps ground me and calm me.
But like if my husband were tograb a cozy blanket and he's
groggy, he's just gonna fallback to sleep.
MichelleGauthier (18:29):
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Same with my partner.
It would be like, good night.
Yes.
Yeah.
DanielleMcGeough (18:34):
And so you have to also choose sensorial
experiences that are gonna moveyou to that state that you
desire to be in.
And so choosing to activateyour senses in a way that's in
alignment with where you want togo is really important.
MichelleGauthier (18:50):
Yeah, that's as you're saying this, it's
making me realize that when I'mgetting ready for bed, I will
often, and I was doing thisunconsciously, but now that
you're saying this, I'm like,hmm, I really need to hone in on
that.
There's this certain, it'scalled everyday oil, it's just a
body oil, and I love the smell.
And because I often put it onbefore bed, it just sort of
automatically makes me feelrelaxed.
(19:12):
And so sometimes I'll just dolike a little, you know, thing
of it and like rub it on mychest and my neck.
And now I'm thinking that couldjust so easily turn into a
ritual.
DanielleMcGeough (19:21):
Absolutely.
And one of the things that Iyou're kind of bringing up that
is important to note is thatboth uh rituals and routines are
a series of actions that we do.
Sometimes you can transition aroutine into a ritual just by
shifting your posture towardsit.
(19:42):
You might already have theelements there, but it's just
like I want to be present forthis, I want to I want it to be
really intentional, and I wantto know what it's moving me
towards.
That alone, so you might havethat same bedtime ritual,
Michelle, that you're alreadydoing.
(20:03):
You may not have to do anythingdifferent, but change your
posture towards it.
MichelleGauthier (20:07):
Yeah, I love that actually, because I could
tell you all the steps that Ido, but I would rather do it in
silence.
Sometimes I'll like havesomething playing or be talking
to one of my kids.
I would just like to take fiveminutes and like I love washing
my face.
I have this balm, I like givemyself a little face massage, I
put that oil on that I wastalking about, take my medicine,
all those things.
(20:28):
So I could easily do that and Iwill do it starting tonight.
DanielleMcGeough (20:32):
I love that.
Yeah, and and so then the E inthe rise ritual method is to
embody it.
It's how to think about okay,when this ritual is over, how do
I keep living the state thatI've transformed to?
How do I make sure that I holdon to that feeling even as the
(20:54):
ritual itself has ended?
And so, you know, anotherreally powerful experience I had
with a client, she hadapproached me and she was
struggling because her toddlerwas just having meltdowns, like
toddlers often do.
She very vulnerably admitted tome that when her her kiddo was
(21:15):
having meltdowns, it was makingher angry.
Just like I was moving into momrage mode and I don't like it.
And I said, Well, well, how doyou want to show up?
How would you like to be foryour kiddos?
And she said to me, I want tobe safe place Sarah.
I want to be a safe place forthem.
(21:36):
I want them to feel like whenthey're struggling that I'm safe
for them, and right now I'mangry.
And so we talked about how dowe create a really quick ritual
that you can do when you noticethat you're moving into mom rage
mode.
How do you catch yourself, takea deep breath, find that new
(21:59):
state for yourself, and theninvite your son into that state
with you?
And you know, it took a littlepractice, yeah to, you know, it
took some practice, but it wasreally transformative to go to
even just name this is how Iwant to be in those moments that
my kids are having meltdowns.
(22:21):
For her to be able to say thatout loud and also to admit the
state that she wasn't was wildlyempowering.
MichelleGauthier (22:29):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think it's funny toobecause when you don't want to
be in a certain state, it almostfeels like, oh, everyone else
can handle this.
But I'm the one who's getting,you know, mom rage.
And I think anyone uh herewho's a parent knows that we all
feel like that sometimes.
And if you real take the timeto realize that and make a new
(22:50):
plan, I love that idea.
Just a small shift in energyand really who you want to be in
that moment.
DanielleMcGeough (22:58):
Yeah, I think that maybe who do I want to be
and how do I want to movethrough these moments is so
wildly important.
It actually made me think backin May, I had a student give a
presentation that you knowstopped me in my tracks.
I learned so, so much from mystudents.
It's such a gift to teach.
And she said, you know,demoralization and burnout
(23:22):
aren't the same thing.
And I was like, Well, what?
And what she explained is that,you know, burnout is when you
feel exhausted, overwhelmed,like I can't keep going at this
pace anymore.
But demoralization is whenyou're like, I know how I want
to be, but I feel likesomething's blocking me.
Like maybe it's the systems orthe structures, or you know,
(23:45):
there's something that'sblocking me.
And it's like, I don't know ifI can keep doing this anymore.
And that was a really powerfulsaying because I think that
naming our state is so importantand getting really clear about
the way in which we are stuck iswildly valuable because whether
(24:10):
you are just exhausted orwhether you're demoralized, by
the way, I think that when Itold you the story about me
earning tenure, at that point, Ithink I was both burnout and
demoralized.
Good combo.
Yay, it was a blast.
And you know, I think thatbeing able to name something
then helps us understand oh,well, how we're gonna solve
(24:33):
this, how we're gonna moveforward from this is a little
bit different based off the waythat we're able to name it.
So if you can have the courageto even name the state that
you're in and then have, I don'tknow, the gumption to own this
desired state that youdesperately desire to move to,
it's it that alone is prettypowerful.
MichelleGauthier (24:56):
Yes, yes.
How can people know what statethey're in?
Like, do am I burned out or amI demoralized or what is going
on with them?
How can they know?
DanielleMcGeough (25:06):
So, a really quickly is after my student gave
that presentation and I startedthinking about this, I went to
all of my transcripts fromcoaching clients that I'd worked
with for several years.
And I was like, okay, I'm gonnacode my data because I'm a
nerdy professor in the I wasjust gonna say hashtag PhD.
(25:27):
So I coded my data, and what Idiscovered is that there were
kind of different, six differentstuck states of self-leadership
that I was seeing with myclients.
And I developed a quiz, anassessment that helps you really
quickly find your stuck state,name it, and then I offer you a
ritual based off of yourpersonal stuck state.
(25:48):
So, because sometimes we are acombination of stucks, and so it
accounts for that as well.
But you know, another way iswhen you have planning practices
and you start seeing it as thisis me collecting data on
myself.
How am I spending my time?
If an alien came down andlooked at my calendar, what
would they think my values were?
(26:10):
Right.
You can also just use whatyou're already doing, like grab,
grab your planner, look atyour, you know, Google calendar,
and what are the patterns thatare emerging there?
And how can you use that as away to also learn about yourself
and start articulating thosestuck states for yourself?
MichelleGauthier (26:32):
Yeah.
Okay, I love it.
And is that is your quiz free?
Can people find that somewhere?
DanielleMcGeough (26:38):
Absolutely.
It is free, and it is atplangoalplan.com backslash
stuck.
MichelleGauthier (26:45):
Okay, okay, perfect.
And then your podcast is alsoplan goal plan.
You got it.
Okay, okay.
Is there anything?
I'm gonna go into the signaturequestions, but is there
anything that I haven't askedyou that you want to have a
chance to say?
DanielleMcGeough (27:00):
I would just say that planning is such a
beautiful opportunity for you tolearn about yourself.
And the more that you learnabout yourself, the more that
you are able to expand yourcapacity to give and serve
others.
I think that the self and thesocial are intimately and
intricately connected.
(27:20):
So you feel like it seemsselfish to have these rituals.
I would say to recognize theway that your self is connected
to those around you.
MichelleGauthier (27:34):
Okay, great.
I love that.
It's such a breath of fresh airthinking about planning.
I love it.
Okay, now I want to ask you thetwo questions that I ask
everyone who comes on thepodcast.
The first is what is somethingthat you personally do when
you're overwhelmed to makeyourself feel better?
DanielleMcGeough (27:50):
I get out my stickers and I put stickers on
things.
So sometimes this is, you know,part of my planning ritual.
Other times it I also like tomake vision boards, but I have
no artistic skills.
And so I like to collect reallyfunky stickers and I like to
(28:12):
create different collages withstickers as a way for me to
start making sense of what'sgoing on.
MichelleGauthier (28:19):
That's fun too.
It just brings a little funinto the overwhelm if you can
get yourself out by that.
I love it.
Yes, when I really make, youknow, I can plan my week in 15
minutes, or I could, I wouldrather plan it in like an hour.
And when I do the hour version,I love it.
I get out all the highlighters,I have colored pencils, I have,
(28:42):
I can spend so much time doingit, and it's absolutely not
necessary, but it's so much moreenjoyable when I do that.
And I have a lot of stickerstoo.
I love stickers.
DanielleMcGeough (28:54):
Those stickers okay.
MichelleGauthier (28:55):
The the other question is what is something
that you do to save time or doless?
DanielleMcGeough (29:01):
I regularly ask myself what it is that I can
let go of to make space for thethings that really matter.
Learning to practiceprioritization over and over
again makes creating spaceeasier.
Because when you really trulyhave a grasp on what matters and
(29:23):
what doesn't, it does let yousay no more easily.
MichelleGauthier (29:30):
Yes, absolutely.
And for anybody who's listeningin has a thought like, but
everything is a high priorityand everything feels like it's
on the same level.
Take that as like a gentleindicator to yourself that it's
almost impossible to spend timeon the things that you really
care about when everything is ofthe same value.
It's prioritizing, is like stepone.
(29:52):
What are the three things thatI really need to do versus these
800 things on my to do list?
Absolutely.
Not my to do list.
Is short.
DanielleMcGeough (30:02):
Good.
Yes.
So hard.
I you know, the world's sonoisy right now.
And yeah, so trying to simplifyand get really clear on what
matters among all of the noise,it really is hard, but it is a
skill and you can learn it overtime.
MichelleGauthier (30:21):
Exactly.
I almost think that it can turninto a habit that you're just
unconsciously as things come in,evaluating, prioritizing them,
you know, then having space ornot having space, but being able
to do that on the flydefinitely takes practice, but
also is possible.
I love that.
DanielleMcGeough (30:39):
And that's a great habit to have.
MichelleGauthier (30:41):
Yes, yes, exactly.
Okay, it was so great to meetyou.
I had so much fun.
This was so interesting.
And I loved your fresh take onplanning time and having rituals
and just allowing for things tobe fun because much like you
said about yourself, almost allthe women who I work with, when
I say what do you like to do forfun, they're like, oh, I feel
(31:04):
like I used to like skiing whenI was 20.
You know, it's it feels likeit's been so long sometimes.
And I'm not talking about majorlike going on a you know
three-week European vacation,just stickers, you know, little
stuff that you can do to bringfun back into your life.
So I love that.
Okay, thank you so much forbeing on.
(31:24):
And we will include the link tothat quiz and your website and
your podcast.
We'll include all of that inthe show notes.
So if people want to followyou, if any of listeners want to
follow up and take that quiz, Iknow I'll be taking it.
Just go to the website that'slisted in the show notes.
DanielleMcGeough (31:42):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was a joy.
MichelleGauthier (31:45):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to theOverwhelmed Working Woman
podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegauthier.com.
See you next week.
If you are in a space where you're feeling
flat, you feel like you're justchecking off all the boxes, more
habits is not going to add moremeaning to your life.
MichelleGauthier (00:14):
You're listening to Overwhelmed Working
Woman, the podcast that helpsyou be more calm and more
productive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
working woman experiences.
And in each episode, you'll geta strategy to bring more calm,
(00:35):
ease, and relaxation to yourlife.
Hi, friend.
I have a very interestingepisode for you today.
I'm joined by DanielleMcGeough, and she is the creator
of something called the RiseRitual Method.
And she offers sort of arefreshing perspective on how to
plan your time and how to avoidburnout before it happens to
(00:58):
you.
And instead of filing on habitsand routines, she shows us how
simple intentional ritualsinstead of routines can help us
connect with our values andshift our energy and just bring
more joy into everyday life.
I loved this conversation andshe helped me come up with a
great new ritual that I've beendoing ever since I interviewed
(01:19):
her.
When you listen today, you'lllearn the difference between
habits and rituals.
I did not know the difference,and why rituals are key when
you're feeling sort of flat ordisconnected, and then how to
identify if you're experiencingburnout or just demoralization
and what to do about it.
And then practical ways tocreate your own rituals that
(01:40):
make transitions smoother fromwork to home or stress to calm.
And she's just has such a funpersonality, and many of her
suggestions are about justbringing more fun and lightness
into your life, which I justthoroughly believe is a very
important part of our way tooserious life.
If you're looking for a moremeaningful, energized way to
(02:02):
move through your day, this isthe episode for you.
Welcome, Danielle.
Thanks so much for joining thepodcast today.
All the overwhelmed workingwomen listening are going to be
so excited to hear what you haveto say.
I'm really excited to learnabout your RISE framework that
you use and how you use ritualsto help people get unstuck.
So I can't wait to hear aboutall that.
(02:24):
But first, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
How did you get started doingthis type of work?
DanielleMcGeough (02:29):
So growing up, I was the weird kid.
I was really weird.
And all of my report cardsdescribe me as unique.
And I was definitely not asmart kid.
But for some reason, when I was20, I decided I wanted to get a
PhD.
And everyone was like, hmm,that's an interesting choice,
Danielle.
And because then I was theweird kid and I didn't think of
(02:54):
myself as a smart kid, as I didall the things that one needs to
do to get a PhD, get themaster's degree, go to school,
get the tenure track job, likeall that stuff.
I told myself that in order todo it, I was gonna have to work
twice as hard.
And so by the time I was 35, Ihad just had my first kiddo, and
my second kiddo was on the way,and I learned that I did earn
(03:17):
tenure, which was the goal I'dbeen working towards my entire
adult life.
And you know what?
I just didn't flipping care.
I didn't care.
Dang, I felt nothing.
I felt flat.
I felt empty.
I had no idea what was next.
I felt so disconnected anddisassociated from all of the
(03:37):
things that you know.
If you would ask me, well,Danielle, what do you enjoy
doing for fun?
I would stay with what whatfun?
No.
And and I just knew that that'snot how I wanted to continue to
live.
I'm a pretty playful person.
I've always wanted to live areally rich, expansive life, and
that was not the path that Iwas on.
Somewhere along the way, I hadjust started checking off boxes
(04:01):
and it left me flat.
MichelleGauthier (04:04):
That is such a bummer, especially when you've
been working so hard for it, andyou're like, oh shoot.
And I thought this was gonna bethe path, but this is not the
path.
DanielleMcGeough (04:15):
No, and you know, I remember they were
having a big dinner actually forus to celebrate everyone that
had gotten promotions.
And I remember being so tickedoff that I had to get a sitter,
dress up nice, and go to work onat a time that was not my work
time so that they can celebrateme.
(04:36):
And I, you know, I was like,you know, Danielle, this is
probably a sign that somethingisn't right.
MichelleGauthier (04:41):
Yeah, yes.
Good job listening to Daniellein that case.
Okay, so then what did you do?
DanielleMcGeough (04:48):
Well, so I had a student give a presentation
on decorative planning, and shepulled out this beautiful
planner that had stickers anddoodles and all sorts of things
on it, and she was explainingthat her therapist had
recommended that she usedecorative planning as a way to
help manage her anxiety.
(05:09):
Basically, she wasn't doing anyscheduling, she wasn't creating
a to-do list or doing any ofthose things that would help her
because every time she did, shejust felt absolutely
overwhelmed.
So I don't know if any of youall have sat down and you're
like, okay, I'm gonna write myto-do list.
And rather than it creatingclarity, you just feel like, oh
my gosh, it just keeps going.
MichelleGauthier (05:30):
Absolutely.
That's something I hear all thetime.
So I can feel everyone shakingtheir heads, yes, along with
you.
DanielleMcGeough (05:37):
And so it was like, okay, stickers are fun.
Let's go.
Why not?
And at the time I was dealingwith a lot of anxiety and I was
waking up in the middle of thenight, and I thought, you know
what?
I'm just gonna get out somestickers in the middle of the
night, and we're gonna do someplanning.
And as I did that, I started torealize though, that planning
(06:00):
for me was less about control.
It was less about timemanagement, and it was more
about me learning about myself.
It was about reconnecting.
Well, what are my values andwhy am I not living them on my
calendar every week?
And, you know, what is going onhere?
That whenever I have theseitems on my calendar, I feel
(06:20):
absolutely drained afterwards.
And so for me, planning becamemore about personal revelation
than about control or managementof anything.
So that's really kind of how Icame to this.
And I started hosting planningparties at the university, I
started hosting planning partiesin the community.
I had a group of goal get themgirls where we were just getting
(06:44):
together and cheering eachother on and supporting each
other.
And and I just had so much tosay.
I thought I'd start a podcast,and then you know, I don't know,
it all unfolded.
MichelleGauthier (06:53):
Yes, yes, and here you are with your podcast
in the top 1.5% now, right?
DanielleMcGeough (06:59):
Yeah, it's it's bananas.
MichelleGauthier (07:01):
Yes, it's so crazy.
Oh my gosh.
Yes, it's funny for people whodon't have a podcast.
When you sit down and yourecord, especially when you're
by yourself, and in my case, I'mlike doing it in my house, in
my office, and then all of asudden you're like, so all these
people actually listen, theyhear this.
It's crazy, it's a weirdfeeling.
DanielleMcGeough (07:19):
It really is.
It's yes, it's also such a joyand and such an awesome way to
connect with people.
So I'm tickled that you'reletting me into your little
world.
MichelleGauthier (07:29):
Yes, it is.
It's so great.
Okay, so one thing I want topick up on before we start
talking through your methodologyis the approach.
A lot of times we talk aboutgetting things done, getting our
time squared away, and it comesfrom like a forcing energy.
Like I've got to shove all thisstuff into time blocks and then
(07:50):
I've got to knock it out.
And I'm sure there is somevalue to that.
And if if you are doing thatand that works for you, that's
great.
But I love that you werethinking about it in a
completely different way, almostlike that you weren't actually
planning.
You were just understandingyourself, your values, how you
liked to spend your time.
And for example, you know,starting a planning party
(08:12):
because it sounded like fun, orstarting a podcast because it
sounded interesting is such afresh look on time management.
Yeah.
DanielleMcGeough (08:22):
And well, I think that I came to it, and I
think a lot of the people that Iwork with now feel like goal
setting, for example, justsounds like adding more pressure
to your already pressure-filledlife.
So when I, you know, I wantedto set goals because I was
trying to figure out what wasnext, but I was just like, holy
(08:43):
smokes, like, really, we'regonna add something more to the
mix.
Yeah, and it felt so heavy.
And so it had never occurred tome that, well, maybe my goal is
to go on a mini date with myhusband once a week, or maybe my
goal is to create more space inmy calendar, or maybe my goal
(09:03):
is to go around the lazy river93 times this summer with my
kids.
Yeah, and I just had neverthought that like, well, like
make it delightful, you dingbat.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
MichelleGauthier (09:15):
Exactly.
Okay, so so far I'm taking awaytwo things from you that
everybody listening can takeaway.
Number one, if you workedreally hard for a goal and you
got to that goal and it wasn'tthe thing, you can still have a
delightful life.
It's never too late.
Just you can lean into what youreally like and what you're
interested in.
And then the second thing isyou can think about time
management as also beinginteresting and fun and having
(09:39):
goals that sound good to you.
Okay, so now tell us the how.
How do you teach people to dothat?
DanielleMcGeough (09:47):
Yeah, so one of the things that I have people
start with is I actually havethem create a ritual.
And the reason for this isrituals help transition us from
one state to another.
And I want people to have alittle container, if you will,
for their planning.
And so, really quickly, when wethink about making our lives
(10:09):
better, if you're anoverachiever, you may have found
yourself going, you know what,I'm just gonna habit my way out
of this, right?
I'm gonna create more habits,we're gonna stack some more
habits, we're gonna get somegood routines, and then maybe my
life is gonna feel easier.
And that's very much where Iwas.
And it took me a really longtime to realize this because in
(10:30):
my own research, I'd beenstudying this, but I just hadn't
made the connection that habitsreally are designed to
eventually become unconscious.
Whereas rituals are designed toactually evoke presence and to
transition us from one state toanother.
MichelleGauthier (10:46):
And so I love that.
I want to like highlight that.
Say that one more time foreverybody so they're clear on
the difference.
DanielleMcGeough (10:55):
So habits, they're really helpful.
I don't think that habits arebad.
I just think that we need todiscern where in our lives do we
want to consciously have habitsthat become become unconscious,
and where in our lives do wewant to have rituals?
So the nice thing about habitsis they they do eventually let
us work on autopilot.
(11:16):
But if you are in a space whereyou're feeling flat, you feel
like you're just checking offall the boxes, more habits is
not going to add more meaning toyour life.
So for me, doing the dishesabsolutely can be a habit.
Like bring it on.
I don't need to be present forit.
Sorry, Trin Nakhan, who talksabout the mindfulness of doing
(11:37):
the dishes.
For me, I'm good to pop in aheadphone, listen to a good
podcast like this one, and tozone out and get the work done.
You know, but when it comes tothinking about my time, I don't
want that to become just like ahabit that I look at my
calendar, check, check, check, Imake my to-do list, check,
(11:57):
check, check.
I want to be present, I want tobe intentional, and I want it
to be conscious.
And so that's where I reallythink about a ritual being
something that can transition mefrom one state to another.
MichelleGauthier (12:09):
Okay, I love that.
Perfect.
So you encourage people, ifthey're feeling stuck, to think
about rituals versus habits.
Absolutely.
DanielleMcGeough (12:19):
So I like people to pinpoint different
places in their day that theymight be in a space of
transition.
And that's where rituals areespecially helpful.
So when you wake up in themorning, if you already have a
morning routine, what it wouldbe like to transition that,
adapt that into a morningritual.
(12:42):
If you at the end of yourworkday have a busy brain, and
it's really hard for you to shutoff work brain, you're after
school picking up your kids orat the park, you're thinking
about everything that you needto do at the office.
Well, how can we use a ritualto actually aid us in that
transition so that we can bepresent for our families and
(13:04):
shut work brain off, but alsohave some confidence that when
we show up at work the nextmorning, we can turn it back on.
MichelleGauthier (13:12):
Yeah.
Yeah. So what do you recommend?
DanielleMcGeough (13:13):
S So I teach something called the rise ritual
method.
And it is fun and simple anddelightful.
So the first part of it isreflect.
So I like people to reflect andsay, well, what is the state
that you're in?
And what's your desired state?
So, for example, it's afterwork you feel like busy Betty
(13:38):
and you want to be relaxed,Rita.
How do you just name that?
In the morning, I wake up and Iam actually.
I wake up and I'm like, let'sgo, let's go, let's go.
For my husband, he wakes up andhe's groggy and he's grumpy and
he's slow.
And so I need a morning ritualthat grounds me.
I need something to pull medown, to get me focused, to take
(14:02):
all the stuff that's buzzingaround my head and pull it
together.
Where for my husband, he needsa ritual that's going to amp him
up.
He needs something that's goingto energize him, something
that's going to bring up hisstate and that's going to just
give him focus by beingenergized.
So how we design those ritualsis going to be different, but we
(14:24):
first need to be able toreflect and name what is our
current state and what's thedesired state that we want to
move to.
MichelleGauthier (14:31):
I love that.
That's so great.
I actually talk to my clients alot about transitioning from
work to home.
And I've never consideredexactly what you're saying,
which is like, what energy areyou in?
Maybe you're in the energy ofexhaustion and you need a ritual
that will give you more energy,or maybe you need to relax or
whatever it is.
(14:52):
But I love that idea.
That's such a great idea.
DanielleMcGeough (14:54):
Yeah.
And then so from there, youintentionally plan.
And that is just kind of namingthe when and where of your
ritual.
So when are you going to doyour ritual?
How long do you want to do itfor?
Where are you going to do it?
And as you make thosedecisions, you also want those
decisions to help move youcloser to that desired state
(15:17):
that you're going for.
So, for example, I do like tohave a morning ritual that I
have a one-minute version of,one that I have like a 15-minute
version of, and I have anhour-long cozy version of.
And depending on my day, likethis morning, I had a meeting
that was earlier than Itypically have to go to meetings
(15:38):
for.
I needed to have a quickermorning ritual, but it still has
those elements there to move methere.
I want to think about where I'mgoing to do my ritual.
If at all possible, can I do itin a space that's going to
invite that desired state thatI'm working to move to?
But I would also say make iteasy.
(16:00):
Yes.
You know, do it where you'remost likely to be consistent
with it.
So the client that I was justactually referencing before,
busy Betty moves to relaxedRita, she is a teacher, and she
needed a way to turn off herbrain after work and then to
kind of just reset before shewent into her home.
(16:22):
So we actually created a littleritual box that she kept in her
car and she'd pull into herdriveway, actually do a quick
ritual in her garage in thedriveway, and then she would go
into her home.
Because that was a way that sheknew that she could do it.
Because if she tried to do itat work, people would interrupt
her.
But if she tried to do it whenshe first got home, kids would
(16:43):
be all over.
MichelleGauthier (16:44):
Yes.
DanielleMcGeough (16:45):
Yeah.
So, you know, do it where youcan.
MichelleGauthier (16:48):
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
So, what was in her box?
DanielleMcGeough (16:51):
If you can share.
Okay.
So the next part of the riseritual method is the S, which is
sensory activation.
Okay.
And so one of the things that'show do we make this a fully
embodied experience?
And how do we invite thesenses?
And so for Busy Betty moving torelax Rita, I do believe that
(17:12):
she had, she decided to use, Ithink, some sort of lotion she
put on her hand, baby, thatsmelled really, really good.
She has that tactile experiencetoo of putting it on her hands.
Were pen snobs?
So I remember she and I havinga conversation about choosing
(17:33):
the right pen that she could,you know, keep from her kids
stealing from her in her car andmaking sure that she was
pairing it with paper that justfelt juicy to write on.
And so, how do you kind ofcreate these sensorial
experiences that one move you tothe state that you want to be
in, but also just feel good?
And so, you know, for somepeople, their ritual might
(17:57):
include tactile things.
For others, it might be smellor sound.
She might have also beenplaying some music on her drive
home that kind of helped her getin the state before she started
her ritual.
And, you know, for example, inthe morning, I have a cozy
blanket that's super, super softthat I use as part of my
morning ritual.
(18:18):
And that's great because ithelps ground me and calm me.
But like if my husband were tograb a cozy blanket and he's
groggy, he's just gonna fallback to sleep.
MichelleGauthier (18:29):
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Same with my partner.
It would be like, good night.
Yes.
Yeah.
DanielleMcGeough (18:34):
And so you have to also choose sensorial
experiences that are gonna moveyou to that state that you
desire to be in.
And so choosing to activateyour senses in a way that's in
alignment with where you want togo is really important.
MichelleGauthier (18:50):
Yeah, that's as you're saying this, it's
making me realize that when I'mgetting ready for bed, I will
often, and I was doing thisunconsciously, but now that
you're saying this, I'm like,hmm, I really need to hone in on
that.
There's this certain, it'scalled everyday oil, it's just a
body oil, and I love the smell.
And because I often put it onbefore bed, it just sort of
automatically makes me feelrelaxed.
(19:12):
And so sometimes I'll just dolike a little, you know, thing
of it and like rub it on mychest and my neck.
And now I'm thinking that couldjust so easily turn into a
ritual.
DanielleMcGeough (19:21):
Absolutely.
And one of the things that Iyou're kind of bringing up that
is important to note is thatboth uh rituals and routines are
a series of actions that we do.
Sometimes you can transition aroutine into a ritual just by
shifting your posture towardsit.
(19:42):
You might already have theelements there, but it's just
like I want to be present forthis, I want to I want it to be
really intentional, and I wantto know what it's moving me
towards.
That alone, so you might havethat same bedtime ritual,
Michelle, that you're alreadydoing.
(20:03):
You may not have to do anythingdifferent, but change your
posture towards it.
MichelleGauthier (20:07):
Yeah, I love that actually, because I could
tell you all the steps that Ido, but I would rather do it in
silence.
Sometimes I'll like havesomething playing or be talking
to one of my kids.
I would just like to take fiveminutes and like I love washing
my face.
I have this balm, I like givemyself a little face massage, I
put that oil on that I wastalking about, take my medicine,
all those things.
(20:28):
So I could easily do that and Iwill do it starting tonight.
DanielleMcGeough (20:32):
I love that.
Yeah, and and so then the E inthe rise ritual method is to
embody it.
It's how to think about okay,when this ritual is over, how do
I keep living the state thatI've transformed to?
How do I make sure that I holdon to that feeling even as the
(20:54):
ritual itself has ended?
And so, you know, anotherreally powerful experience I had
with a client, she hadapproached me and she was
struggling because her toddlerwas just having meltdowns, like
toddlers often do.
She very vulnerably admitted tome that when her her kiddo was
(21:15):
having meltdowns, it was makingher angry.
Just like I was moving into momrage mode and I don't like it.
And I said, Well, well, how doyou want to show up?
How would you like to be foryour kiddos?
And she said to me, I want tobe safe place Sarah.
I want to be a safe place forthem.
(21:36):
I want them to feel like whenthey're struggling that I'm safe
for them, and right now I'mangry.
And so we talked about how dowe create a really quick ritual
that you can do when you noticethat you're moving into mom rage
mode.
How do you catch yourself, takea deep breath, find that new
(21:59):
state for yourself, and theninvite your son into that state
with you?
And you know, it took a littlepractice, yeah to, you know, it
took some practice, but it wasreally transformative to go to
even just name this is how Iwant to be in those moments that
my kids are having meltdowns.
(22:21):
For her to be able to say thatout loud and also to admit the
state that she wasn't was wildlyempowering.
MichelleGauthier (22:29):
Yeah, yeah.
And I think it's funny toobecause when you don't want to
be in a certain state, it almostfeels like, oh, everyone else
can handle this.
But I'm the one who's getting,you know, mom rage.
And I think anyone uh herewho's a parent knows that we all
feel like that sometimes.
And if you real take the timeto realize that and make a new
(22:50):
plan, I love that idea.
Just a small shift in energyand really who you want to be in
that moment.
DanielleMcGeough (22:58):
Yeah, I think that maybe who do I want to be
and how do I want to movethrough these moments is so
wildly important.
It actually made me think backin May, I had a student give a
presentation that you knowstopped me in my tracks.
I learned so, so much from mystudents.
It's such a gift to teach.
And she said, you know,demoralization and burnout
(23:22):
aren't the same thing.
And I was like, Well, what?
And what she explained is that,you know, burnout is when you
feel exhausted, overwhelmed,like I can't keep going at this
pace anymore.
But demoralization is whenyou're like, I know how I want
to be, but I feel likesomething's blocking me.
Like maybe it's the systems orthe structures, or you know,
(23:45):
there's something that'sblocking me.
And it's like, I don't know ifI can keep doing this anymore.
And that was a really powerfulsaying because I think that
naming our state is so importantand getting really clear about
the way in which we are stuck iswildly valuable because whether
(24:10):
you are just exhausted orwhether you're demoralized, by
the way, I think that when Itold you the story about me
earning tenure, at that point, Ithink I was both burnout and
demoralized.
Good combo.
Yay, it was a blast.
And you know, I think thatbeing able to name something
then helps us understand oh,well, how we're gonna solve
(24:33):
this, how we're gonna moveforward from this is a little
bit different based off the waythat we're able to name it.
So if you can have the courageto even name the state that
you're in and then have, I don'tknow, the gumption to own this
desired state that youdesperately desire to move to,
it's it that alone is prettypowerful.
MichelleGauthier (24:56):
Yes, yes.
How can people know what statethey're in?
Like, do am I burned out or amI demoralized or what is going
on with them?
How can they know?
DanielleMcGeough (25:06):
So, a really quickly is after my student gave
that presentation and I startedthinking about this, I went to
all of my transcripts fromcoaching clients that I'd worked
with for several years.
And I was like, okay, I'm gonnacode my data because I'm a
nerdy professor in the I wasjust gonna say hashtag PhD.
(25:27):
So I coded my data, and what Idiscovered is that there were
kind of different, six differentstuck states of self-leadership
that I was seeing with myclients.
And I developed a quiz, anassessment that helps you really
quickly find your stuck state,name it, and then I offer you a
ritual based off of yourpersonal stuck state.
(25:48):
So, because sometimes we are acombination of stucks, and so it
accounts for that as well.
But you know, another way iswhen you have planning practices
and you start seeing it as thisis me collecting data on
myself.
How am I spending my time?
If an alien came down andlooked at my calendar, what
would they think my values were?
(26:10):
Right.
You can also just use whatyou're already doing, like grab,
grab your planner, look atyour, you know, Google calendar,
and what are the patterns thatare emerging there?
And how can you use that as away to also learn about yourself
and start articulating thosestuck states for yourself?
MichelleGauthier (26:32):
Yeah.
Okay, I love it.
And is that is your quiz free?
Can people find that somewhere?
DanielleMcGeough (26:38):
Absolutely.
It is free, and it is atplangoalplan.com backslash
stuck.
MichelleGauthier (26:45):
Okay, okay, perfect.
And then your podcast is alsoplan goal plan.
You got it.
Okay, okay.
Is there anything?
I'm gonna go into the signaturequestions, but is there
anything that I haven't askedyou that you want to have a
chance to say?
DanielleMcGeough (27:00):
I would just say that planning is such a
beautiful opportunity for you tolearn about yourself.
And the more that you learnabout yourself, the more that
you are able to expand yourcapacity to give and serve
others.
I think that the self and thesocial are intimately and
intricately connected.
(27:20):
So you feel like it seemsselfish to have these rituals.
I would say to recognize theway that your self is connected
to those around you.
MichelleGauthier (27:34):
Okay, great.
I love that.
It's such a breath of fresh airthinking about planning.
I love it.
Okay, now I want to ask you thetwo questions that I ask
everyone who comes on thepodcast.
The first is what is somethingthat you personally do when
you're overwhelmed to makeyourself feel better?
DanielleMcGeough (27:50):
I get out my stickers and I put stickers on
things.
So sometimes this is, you know,part of my planning ritual.
Other times it I also like tomake vision boards, but I have
no artistic skills.
And so I like to collect reallyfunky stickers and I like to
(28:12):
create different collages withstickers as a way for me to
start making sense of what'sgoing on.
MichelleGauthier (28:19):
That's fun too.
It just brings a little funinto the overwhelm if you can
get yourself out by that.
I love it.
Yes, when I really make, youknow, I can plan my week in 15
minutes, or I could, I wouldrather plan it in like an hour.
And when I do the hour version,I love it.
I get out all the highlighters,I have colored pencils, I have,
(28:42):
I can spend so much time doingit, and it's absolutely not
necessary, but it's so much moreenjoyable when I do that.
And I have a lot of stickerstoo.
I love stickers.
DanielleMcGeough (28:54):
Those stickers okay.
MichelleGauthier (28:55):
The the other question is what is something
that you do to save time or doless?
DanielleMcGeough (29:01):
I regularly ask myself what it is that I can
let go of to make space for thethings that really matter.
Learning to practiceprioritization over and over
again makes creating spaceeasier.
Because when you really trulyhave a grasp on what matters and
(29:23):
what doesn't, it does let yousay no more easily.
MichelleGauthier (29:30):
Yes, absolutely.
And for anybody who's listeningin has a thought like, but
everything is a high priorityand everything feels like it's
on the same level.
Take that as like a gentleindicator to yourself that it's
almost impossible to spend timeon the things that you really
care about when everything is ofthe same value.
It's prioritizing, is like stepone.
(29:52):
What are the three things thatI really need to do versus these
800 things on my to do list?
Absolutely.
Not my to do list.
Is short.
DanielleMcGeough (30:02):
Good.
Yes.
So hard.
I you know, the world's sonoisy right now.
And yeah, so trying to simplifyand get really clear on what
matters among all of the noise,it really is hard, but it is a
skill and you can learn it overtime.
MichelleGauthier (30:21):
Exactly.
I almost think that it can turninto a habit that you're just
unconsciously as things come in,evaluating, prioritizing them,
you know, then having space ornot having space, but being able
to do that on the flydefinitely takes practice, but
also is possible.
I love that.
DanielleMcGeough (30:39):
And that's a great habit to have.
MichelleGauthier (30:41):
Yes, yes, exactly.
Okay, it was so great to meetyou.
I had so much fun.
This was so interesting.
And I loved your fresh take onplanning time and having rituals
and just allowing for things tobe fun because much like you
said about yourself, almost allthe women who I work with, when
I say what do you like to do forfun, they're like, oh, I feel
(31:04):
like I used to like skiing whenI was 20.
You know, it's it feels likeit's been so long sometimes.
And I'm not talking about majorlike going on a you know
three-week European vacation,just stickers, you know, little
stuff that you can do to bringfun back into your life.
So I love that.
Okay, thank you so much forbeing on.
(31:24):
And we will include the link tothat quiz and your website and
your podcast.
We'll include all of that inthe show notes.
So if people want to followyou, if any of listeners want to
follow up and take that quiz, Iknow I'll be taking it.
Just go to the website that'slisted in the show notes.
DanielleMcGeough (31:42):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was a joy.
MichelleGauthier (31:45):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to theOverwhelmed Working Woman
podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at michellegauthier.com.
See you next week.
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