What would happen if you suddenly had to manage all your finances alone tomorrow — would you be ready?
In this powerful conversation, financial expert and author Steph Wagner opens up about losing her financial autonomy after leaving her high-powered finance career to raise her family — and how she had to rebuild her confidence, her career, and her wealth from scratch after an unexpected divorce. This episode tackles why so many capable women still feel intimidated by money and how to stop abdicating financial responsibility in your own life — even if you’re in a loving, stable relationship.
Listeners will learn:
- How to identify the hidden beliefs and money stories that quietly control your financial choices.
- The first practical steps to move from financial dependence to financial freedom.
- Why building autonomy around money strengthens—not threatens—your relationships.
Press play now to learn how to reclaim your financial power and start building the life — and security — you truly deserve.
Featured on the podcast
Fly!: A Woman's Guide to Financial Freedom and Building a Life You Love on Amazon
Steph Wagner's website
Connect with Steph on LinkedIn
Connect with Steph on Instagram
Wondering why you're overwhelmed? Take my "why am I overwhelmed" quiz to find out the source of your overwhelm, and what to do about it.
Send Me a Message - Have a question, comment, or just want to say hi? Message me here, I'd love to chat!
Work With Me - Interested in working with me 1-on-1, taking a class, or joining one of my coaching groups? Message me here to get the scoop.
Want More? - If you love the content of this podcast, you'll love our Simple Sunday newsletter too. When you sign up, you’ll receive a simple dose of inspiration, practical tips, and a little fun—designed to help you start your week with simplicity and intention. Sign up here
Life can be overwhelming, but on this podcast, you'll discover practical strategies to overcome overwhelm, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk, manage time effectively, set boundaries, and stay productive in high-stress jobs—all while learning how to say no and prioritize self-care on the Overwhelmed Worki...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michelle Gauthier (00:00):
If something unexpected happened tomorrow,
would you feel confidentmanaging your money on your own?
You're listening to OverwhelmedWorking Woman, the podcast that
helps you be more calm and moreproductive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
(00:21):
working woman experiences.
And in each episode, you'll geta strategy to bring more calm,
ease, and relaxation to yourlife.
Hi, friends.
Thanks for joining.
I've got a great episode foryou today.
Today I'm joined by StephWagner, and she is the author of
the powerful brand new book,literally coming out today,
called Fly (00:42):
A Woman's Guide to Financial Freedom and Building a
Life You Love.
Her story is really real andpretty common, sadly.
She had a background infinance.
She had a high-powered career,and she decided to stay home for
a couple years to raise herfamily, and her marriage ended
(01:03):
unexpectedly, and she realizedthat she had slowly given away
her financial autonomy and hadto totally rebuild from the
ground up.
And in this episode, she shareswith us why so many smart,
capable women still feelintimidated by money and the
hidden costs of just lettingyour partner handle it.
(01:23):
Even if you stay marriedforever.
And how to go from beingfinancially dependent to
financially free one step at atime.
So even if you're not goingthrough a major life change and
you're in a happy relationship,this is a great conversation
that I think every woman needsto hear.
Okay, so let's get started.
Steph, thank you so much forbeing here today.
I want to jump in right awayand say that I loved your book,
(01:47):
and I think the audience isreally gonna love to hear about
it too.
I loved that the book was partmemoir, like a real vulnerable,
honest one, not the one whereyou're like, oh, this is just
surface level stuff.
And then a complete guide forfinancial freedom.
I love a story in a book, and Ilove a workbook, and this book
is sort of the perfectcombination of both of those.
(02:08):
I took it on vacation with meand I read the whole thing on
the two flights I had for mytrip.
So thank you for writing it.
I think the audience is gonnalove hearing your story, and I'm
so excited to have you on.
Steph Wagner (02:19):
Well, thank you, Michelle.
It's such an honor to be here.
And your words mean a lot to mebecause, you know, I learned
pretty early in my journey ofrebuilding my career, to be
honest.
It took a while.
But as I began to really workto rebuild my career, I learned
I've got to be raw andvulnerable and honest if I'm
gonna ask other people to do thesame that I'm working with,
(02:41):
right?
If I and that's hard.
That was it's easy now becauseI really have seen the benefits
and the beauty that can becreated when we are authentic
and true to who we really are inevery aspect of our lives.
But I grew up in a Germanfamily.
Like we didn't talk aboutanything and we we just
sugarcoated and we walked aroundwith a smile on our face and we
(03:03):
had to look perfect.
And, you know, so using thatmuscle was difficult.
But, you know, there was a realpivotal moment when I began to
write and I began to throw mywork out into the outside world
where I saw these comments pourin of gratitude for being real.
And so when I wrote this book,I was like, I've gotta do it.
I've got to show the world thatwe're not perfect, we're all
(03:24):
just doing the best we can.
And, you know, I'm sure I'llget judged in some regards,
right?
Like some people may, butthat's okay.
Cause yeah, you know, at theend of the day, we know who we
are and we've got to be true towho ourselves.
And and so thank you for yourkind words because that was
really my intent.
And and then also, you know, ifif I can do this, you can too,
(03:46):
right?
Michelle Gauthier (03:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you nailed it.
You did think if that was yourintent, you did an amazing job.
And there were so many things.
Like I said, I was on a plane,so I kept like folding the edge
of the corners of the pages thatI wanted to talk about.
There were so many things thatI wanted to ask you about or
wanted you to share with theaudience.
But before we jump into that,could you just tell them for
(04:08):
people who haven't read yourbook yet what it's about and why
you created it?
Steph Wagner (04:15):
Yeah.
So, you know, my journey, likewe all have a story, right?
We all have our journeys of of,and I'm so fortunate that my
life's journey really ultimatelyled to my mission, which is to
help empower women around theirfinancial lives.
And that journey started wayback when I started my career.
I loved finance.
(04:36):
I loved math.
I didn't know that peopledidn't.
I didn't know that womendidn't.
And I got into this amazingcareer of, you know, investment
banking and private equity.
And I think and a frankly, acareer that's incredibly hard to
have a family.
And I discovered that a coupleof years in as I began to have
my family.
And, you know, I'll tell youthis pivotal moment.
(04:58):
It's in the book, but it just Ithink it serves up this moment
where life began to change.
I was asked to get on a Cessnato go look at a deal in rural
Alabama.
And at the time I was vicepresident of a private equity
fund, didn't even appreciatewhat an amazing career I was,
you know, creating.
And I was pregnant.
(05:18):
I had a two-year-old at home.
My husband traveled 150 nights,and I'm like, something has to
give.
And I quit.
And that was the beginning.
Losing my earning power wasjust a tidbit, right?
But it was the beginning oflosing all of my financial
autonomy.
I eventually gave everythingover to my husband.
We divided and conquered.
He was in finance as well.
(05:40):
I was busy raising kids, he wasbusy working, traveling, and
all that kind of worked until itdid it.
And the next real pivotal momentis when I had learned that he'd
been living a double life andhaving an affair and wanted was
in love with someone else andwanted to end our marriage.
And it was my wake-up callthat, oh my gosh, like nobody
(06:03):
wakes up and says, I think I'lllose my financial independence
today.
Oh my gosh, I have let thishappen over the last 14 years.
And now what am I going to do?
How am I going to supportmyself?
How am I going to support mykids?
And how in the world am I goingto deal with the most
devastating loss of identity?
I was a wife, I was a mother,I'd given everything up for my
(06:24):
family.
And I just quickly realized ifI'm feeling this low, if I'm
feeling this overwhelmed, whatis the average woman feeling who
doesn't have a background infinance?
Right.
Like I had tools to rebuildemotionally.
I was a disaster.
So I leaned into those toolsand started to rebuild, but I
was a mess.
And it became the beginning ofmy, like I said, my mission of
(06:48):
I've got to use this story tohelp women feel like they're not
alone.
That we're all doing the bestwe can.
Right.
But I've got to also help.
And that's when I was like, ifI can use my financial expertise
and what ultimately became mycurriculum and the work that I
ultimately did, I might be ontosomething.
And that was the beginning ofFly.
And there's a reason why it'scalled Fly, is because it's a
(07:10):
women's empowerment bookdisguised as a finance book.
And I want every woman outthere to live life big and to
not play life small.
And your financial well-beingis such a key component of your
ability to do that.
Michelle Gauthier (07:22):
Yes, absolutely.
And, you know, and I mentionedthat the book was so relatable
as a memoir because it was sovulnerable.
That's what I'm talking about.
Because the women who I workwith and women who are listening
to this podcast who are feelingoverwhelmed, if they don't know
what's going on with theirfinancial life and maybe they
have outsourced it to theirpartner and they're just like, I
(07:43):
can't think about that.
Hopefully everything's justgoing fine.
A lot of times they might feellike, well, I just don't get
that, or that's not my cup oftea.
And I love that you are a womanwho was like a vice president
in a private equity firm and ithappened to you too.
It's like such a wake-up callbecause you knew about finance.
(08:03):
You know how important it was,and you still were in that same
situation.
So I'm sure that wasn't a lotof fun to share.
Or maybe it was better once yougot on the other side of it.
But I just appreciate thatbecause I notice all the time
that women, any problem thatthey tell me about, they feel
like they're the only one.
Like everybody else can dothis, but I can't do this.
And I don't know why we do thatway.
(08:24):
We sort of self-isolate, butit's not true.
It's not true.
Steph Wagner (08:29):
And I think one of the reasons we self-isolate in
when it comes to money is we'vebeen taught to never talk about
it, right?
Yeah.
And and and also in many ways,we've been taught not to talk
about the things where we feelshame, right?
That we have to feel strong.
We have to feel, you know, wehave to, especially in a world
right now where this women aresuch badasses, right?
(08:51):
So if there are, if we havethese feelings of inadequacy to
show that and be vulnerable,while it's the right thing to
do, I believe, right?
I think, I think beauty comesout of showing our
vulnerability.
It's still hard and icky.
It's still really tough.
And I will tell you, and Iappreciate your words around the
journey of my discovery ofdespite my financial aptitude,
how did I get in this mess?
(09:12):
You know, I think at the end ofthe day, we tend to repeat the
behaviors that we see growingup, right?
And sometimes we go theopposite way.
But our childhood has a bigimpact.
And I saw money as such asource of conflict in my
childhood, as such a source ofcontrol, as such a bad thing.
(09:32):
Despite my mom had an amazingcareer that in my own marriage,
I just didn't want to fightabout it.
I didn't want to argue.
So I didn't realize I was doingit until I had to realize it,
until I was on my own.
And I sat with myself and said,okay, Steph, why?
Like, why did you abdicate?
Like, actually, you're kind ofbetter at this stuff than he
(09:52):
was.
And what's the mindset thatyou've had that's been holding
you back?
And what do you need to do tochange?
And and I think self-awarenessand personal growth is the key
to anything, money or not.
But it's it's tough work.
But when you do the work, it'sliberating.
Michelle Gauthier (10:07):
Yes.
And I think especially withmoney stories, when we start to
discover, well, this is how Iwas raised, and so this is what
I believed about money, you cansee that and be like, oh, and I
don't even believe that anymore.
Right.
It's just an unconscious beliefthat was playing in my head.
And now I can write it down ona piece of paper and start
working on changing it,reprogramming myself.
So even though your book isabout, I guess your journey was
(10:31):
spurred by a divorce and asituation where you had to
figure it out all out on yourown.
I want anybody who's listeningwho's thinking, well, I'm
happily married and I don't knowanything about money, but it's
just fine for me.
I totally hope that's true.
Even if you stay married forthe entire rest of your life, I
like that your book says this isfor all women.
(10:52):
All women need to practicefinancial freedom because you
never know what's going tohappen, first of all.
And second of all, it's such animportant part of our lives.
So can you tell us a little bitabout how you would define
financial freedom?
I love how you talk about it'snot necessarily a dollar amount.
So what is it?
Steph Wagner (11:10):
It's financial autonomy.
And and we all need it to yourpoint.
And I'll break down thatdefinition here in a second.
But I love that you justhighlighted that because it is
so important for me to get outthere that divorce was my
catalyst, right?
I lived pretty comfy until apivotal moment where the snow
globe was really shooking up,right?
And it was like, but the truthis it could happen.
(11:34):
It could be a job loss, itcould be a medical crisis, it
could be a business failure.
Frankly, it builds betterpartnerships in marriage, right?
That to have conversations andto be on the same page and to
communicate about shared goalsand and how we're going to work
together to achieve those goalsand prioritizing.
And that can only happen whenwe build confidence around
(11:55):
money, right?
So when people say, you know, Ihear out there all the time,
financial independence means younever have to work again.
I'm like, no, it doesn't.
Frankly, to a woman thatdoesn't have control over this
or may not even have a lot ofearning power, that is
overwhelming.
That's like, well, I'll neverachieve it.
I'm going to be working untilthe day I die.
No, it's a mindset.
It's about understanding thatfinancial independence is a
(12:19):
mindset that builds freedom.
It is making a commitment toyourself that no matter what, I
am that am going to do anythingit takes, right?
Not a man, not a boss, not amother, not a father, not a
sister, but me, I'm going totake control over my financial
life and I'm going to do thework to build the tools and the
(12:40):
skills, and frankly, the teamaround me, whether it's a
community, whether it'sadvisors, to make more informed
decisions, to take ownership ofthis.
Because too many of us areabdicating, right?
And I think what might surpriseyou is that married younger
women who are married, they maystrive to be financially
independent early on in theircareers or as they get out of
(13:02):
college.
And they are.
They're more in the game thanever before.
But studies still show thatwhen they marry, there's still
that dividing and conquering.
There's still that abdication.
And that's putting us andfrankly, our partners and our
families at risk.
You also mentioned somethingthat I want to expand upon if
it's okay.
We are living longer than ever.
And it's awesome, right?
(13:23):
The average woman today thathas means to a healthy
lifestyle, good medical care,should expect to live in her
90s.
Well, we outlive men by, youknow, five to 10 to 15 years.
So even if you're in thehappiest marriage, and I'm all
for them, right?
It's great.
But the truth is, is eight outof 10 of us because of
widowhood, because of the riseof grade divorce, you know, the
(13:45):
fact that a lot of women arechoosing to remain single even
after those events.
Eight out of 10 of us canexpect to be to spend many of
our golden years alone.
And a lot of us aren'tfinancially prepared.
So it's so important that weestablish great habits early in
life, whether you are in your20s or 30s, or even before
something might happen.
And again, let's hope it neverdoes.
(14:07):
And then foster a healthierpartnership within your
families.
Michelle Gauthier (14:10):
Yes.
But imagine trying to learn allthis when you're 80, right?
Steph Wagner (14:14):
Like that would be so much harder.
Or when the rub is pulled outand you're emotionally like me a
mess, right?
It's so much harder to seethings clearly and take action.
Michelle Gauthier (14:24):
You mentioned that women are going to live
longer than men.
One of the stats I saw in yourbook that seemed unbelievable to
me that the average age of awidow is 59.
Steph Wagner (14:33):
Yes.
Very few people.
I'm always, I speak a lot aboutthis across the country in
mixed crowds.
And I always pause to say,okay, I'm sorry, men in the
room, but here's the reality,you know, is that the average
age of widowhood in this countryis 59.
And we also are seeing atremendous rise in the number of
people, men and women that arechoosing to divorce later in
(14:55):
life.
And a lot of that is because oflongevity.
They're like, wait, I couldlive to be 90 and I'm really not
that happy.
And I want to thrive.
And so when you combine those,that's how you get to the eight
out of 10.
But when you break down thewidowhood stat, I think, first
of all, you know, that includesa lot of marriages where there
is an age gap.
And frankly, we would thinkthat with medicine, you know,
(15:17):
advancing, you know, truth betold, that number's not
changing.
It's been 59 for years.
So shocking.
I know, and you may know, Imean, I know women that have
been in their 40s and theirhusband has dropped out.
Absolutely.
Just horrible.
And of course, the reverse,too.
You know, I mean, things happenobviously where men become
widow, but it's still, it's avery important step that I don't
(15:39):
think we're talking enoughabout.
Michelle Gauthier (15:40):
Yes.
Yeah.
I definitely highlighted thatand highlighted that people over
50 are getting divorced attwice the rate they used to, but
over 65 is like three times therate that they used to.
So this was not to be scary.
And again, hopefully everythingworks out, but like there's an
80% chance that even if you'rewith someone now, that you will
(16:01):
have to manage your money aloneat some point.
So now is the time.
And they'll have to read thebook, of course, to get all of
the details for exactly how todo that.
But if you were to just imagineyou're talking to someone right
now who's thinking, I'm reallyoverwhelmed with this.
My spouse does everything, butI actually do see the value in
doing it.
And I would like to getstarted.
(16:23):
What is the first thing thatyou would tell them to do?
One small step.
Steph Wagner (16:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
The book really lays out theseven steps to freedom, and you
highlighted that.
But the mostly do build on eachother.
I hope you saw that.
They're really building blocksstep by step.
But the first thing is, and Itouched on it here in the
beginning of our conversation,you've got to unpack your
current relationship with money.
You've got to understand, youhighlighted it beautifully.
(16:49):
You aren't stuck, but you can'tmake change until you survey
the landscape and you reallylook at why have I had these
behaviors with it?
Why have I avoidedconversations or why am I living
beyond my means?
Like, why do I feel that way?
What am I doing?
You have to really take a hardlook at where you are today and
(17:09):
the habits and beliefs that youhave and be honest with
yourself, right?
I mean, I always say talkingwith other people is so
important when it comes tomoney, but you first need to
know how to talk to yourself andbe honest and open.
I then am a real believer ofyou've got to have an honest
conversation with how you wereraised.
What were the money messagesthat you received that may not
(17:32):
work, that may have been nothingbut lies?
I grew up in this family thatwas a lot of penny pinchers.
My grandparents were part ofthe depression generation,
right?
And factory workers fromRockford, Illinois.
Money was not to be talkedabout, but also it was to be
saved, not spent.
And my dad did the opposite.
He lived so beyond our means.
(17:52):
And in always I struggled withthat, you know, because I knew
what he was doing wasn't what wewere taught, right?
But I was confused.
I was left who interpret thingsthat I develop messages on my
own, if that makes sense.
I was taught debt was bad.
You pay cash for everything.
Well, I'm here to tell you debtis not bad.
You just have to use it right.
(18:13):
And unpacking the why behindyour current money story, all
the narrative that you toldyourself.
And then most importantly, andI can kind of break this down
here in the book of how to dothis, but start to get excited
about going forward, to makethat next step, you got to think
about where do you want to go?
You know, how do you want toshift your thinking around
(18:35):
money?
But also, equally important,what do you want for the next
chapter?
What's a vision you have foryour future?
And I think some people mightgo, what does that have to do
with money?
Everything because it helps youcreate goals.
It helps you think big and beinspired and empowered and
inspire other people.
But then you figure out how youcan afford to do it, right?
(18:55):
Yeah.
How you're going to actuallycreate that life.
So that is the first step.
And it's pretty amazing whathappens when you start to
realize, man, I was living in ascarcity mindset.
That's not healthy.
I've got to get into more of agrowth mindset.
And my book hopefully helps youkind of change your thinking.
Michelle Gauthier (19:13):
Yes, absolutely.
And it also guides you throughall those terms that you're
like, what is a Roth IR?
Right.
What does my 401k mean?
So it has all the practicalnuts and bolts in it as well.
But I love that that's thefirst step because I think
that's actually the first stepfor any problem.
That's what we talk aboutrepeatedly on here.
Check your mindset.
What are you thinking about it?
(19:35):
How do you want to think aboutit instead?
What kind of life do you wantto create?
How do you want to feel in yourlife?
And it's the same thing justfor money.
And I love that.
So this is my last question foryou before I ask you the
standard two questions.
Obviously, when you're goingthrough this divorce and you're
completely surprised by it, andyou made a real effort to try to
(19:55):
hang on to that marriage, andit was in the end, it just
didn't work.
So obviously, you're not havinga really fun time at life then.
Looking back now, now thatyou've got this book out there
and you have your whole career,what's been your favorite part
of that transformation, of thegood part of like the
afterstory?
(20:15):
What would you say is yourabsolute favorite part?
Steph Wagner (20:18):
Well, you may be surprised by this answer, but I
have such, I'm gonna get it'sokay.
Go ahead.
I have such profound gratitudefor the muck.
I learned so much about myselfthrough the really hard times,
and I never thought I'd havegratitude around it.
It was so hard.
(20:38):
It was so scary.
I did this alone.
Ultimately, I raised my threelittle boys all by myself.
And I'm proud to say, and Ithink this is actually another
thing I am so proud of is I nowhave a 28, a 26, and 22-year-old
that are thriving.
And it's the result of so muchpain and so much hard work and
so much focus on what I neededto do for me and most
(21:02):
importantly to provide securityfor my three boys.
But the gratitude I have forthe tough times, I think
sometimes when we're in it, it'sso hard to see that there is
this beauty around the otherside.
When you're in the muck, youget stuck.
And I now have a really greatappreciation because we're going
to continue to get in mucks.
Life is nothing buttransitions.
(21:24):
And when we're in these newseasons, we don't even know that
we're going through it andwe're getting to something even
better.
But that skill that I learned,does that make sense?
Absolutely.
So well through all of life'smany chapters, because change
can be scary, very, very scary.
But I learned through that thatthe discomfort you're feeling
(21:46):
means you're growing inside.
Yes.
And really amazing things areon the other side of it when you
lean in, when you getcomfortable in the
uncomfortable.
And that was the result of thisreally tough stuff.
But I couldn't be happier.
Oftentimes people say, Do youhave any regrets?
I don't believe in them.
I think it's life is nothingbut things that provide us
lessons to grow from.
Michelle Gauthier (22:08):
Yeah.
So absolutely.
And sometimes you know that theupside is coming.
You're gonna understand one daywhy this is happening and why
this is for good.
And it's really tough whenyou're in the muck.
It is.
But I think being able to beout of it, that's wonderful.
I I love Pink, the singer Pink,and she has lyrics to a song
that say, I've been to thebottom, so there's nothing to
(22:30):
fear.
And I'm not saying nothingworse could ever happen to me,
but when you have really been tothe bottom of your divorce and
starting your whole life over,and in my case, quitting my job
and starting a new one and allthat stuff, it just feels like,
oh my gosh, but now I have themost self-belief.
Like I could you could justdrop me in some foreign country
and I'll figure something out ofit.
Steph Wagner (22:51):
It's such a gift of the confidence that we we
built inside of us, ittranscends and and it applies to
all aspects of our life.
So I love that you just saidthat.
It's the gift that we wouldn'thave that new muscle if we
didn't go through those hardtimes.
Michelle Gauthier (23:05):
Yeah, if I didn't have the opportunity to
go to the bottom.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So thank you.
Steph Wagner (23:11):
I thank my ex-husband every day.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Which sounds so weird, but Ireally do.
I really do.
Oh my gosh.
Michelle Gauthier (23:20):
Okay, now I want to ask you the questions I
ask everybody.
So, what is something that youdo when you feel overwhelmed to
make yourself feel better orless overwhelmed?
Steph Wagner (23:29):
I get on a bike.
Cycling is my absolute passion,joy, but it's funny.
It it works my muscles, but itworks my mind.
It gives me quiet time.
I'm going too fast to look, getdistracted.
My eyes are straight ahead.
And half this book, honestly,was written on a bike.
I would get off and dictate.
(23:50):
Oh, that's so great.
I I think broadly speaking,when you're overwhelmed, my
advice is understand thatwalking, cycling, using your
right and your left reallybrings balance back and puts you
in a much more balancedmindset.
It's really, again, using theright and the left of your body,
whether you're on a bike oryou're walking.
(24:10):
It's so yes.
Yeah.
Michelle Gauthier (24:12):
And it's so exciting because I think when
we're overwhelmed, we have atendency to try to like sit at
our desk and produce something.
But if you really want to, youneed to walk away.
Yeah.
Right away in your case.
Okay.
I love that.
We've never had biking as ananswer before.
I love that.
And then secondly, what issomething that you do to save
time or just do less?
Steph Wagner (24:35):
Well, I must admit, I need to do more of
that.
Yes.
That that needs to be a 2026top of the list goal.
But I think the one thing is Ilean into mobile Starbucks.
Mobile Starbucks.
I love that.
Number one, it does make it somuch easier when you're in an
airport to like on the plane asyou're landing, like put your
(24:56):
order in and just swing by andpick it up between.
Yep.
But it also doesn't cost youany more money.
Yes.
Yes.
So it's good for both of yourbrains.
Michelle Gauthier (25:04):
Exactly.
Steph Wagner (25:05):
Financial brain and not the regular brain.
Michelle Gauthier (25:07):
Yes, that's exactly when I've done that at
the airport before, especiallylike DFW or somewhere where it's
huge and it's packed andeverything.
And I think, doesn't everybodyknow about this?
I'm just walking up and justgrabbing my coffee.
I want to shout it from therooftop.
Do you realize the time youcould save in that long?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Oh my gosh.
My brain is just wired forefficiency and I cannot help it.
(25:28):
I'm always looking for moreefficient ways to do something.
So when other people don't doit, I want to be like, excuse
me, everyone.
I wanted you to know if you getthis app.
And if forward, Michelle, Ilove it.
Yes, exactly.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on.
And I loved your book and Iloved getting to know you.
So if people have beenlistening and they want the book
(25:49):
fly, where can they find it?
Steph Wagner (25:52):
Well, you can find it on all the major book
distributions.
Amazon, Barnes and Noble,Target, Walmart.
It's it's it's everywhere.
I'm so blessed.
And also the audiobook.
I I had the honor, which wasamazing.
I had to actually audition,Michelle.
It was crazy.
But then I had the honor ofrecording my own story and it it
really meant a lot to me andwas one of the most amazing
(26:12):
experiences I've ever had.
So my mesh.
Yeah.
Michelle Gauthier (26:15):
It was you had to audition.
Like they were going to getsomebody else to be you if you
were they're enough you.
Steph Wagner (26:21):
Okay.
Michelle Gauthier (26:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Steph Wagner (26:23):
I was like, wait, what?
And they're like, we need afive-minute reading.
I'm like, okay.
So I was thrilled.
Michelle Gauthier (26:29):
If that wasn't somebody's natural knack
to be good at speaking, that itcould really take away from the
book.
Oh, that is so fun.
What a neat experience.
Steph Wagner (26:36):
Yeah, it was.
It was an honor.
And then also you can find meon my website, you know,
stephellwagner.com.
Michelle Gauthier (26:42):
Okay.
So stephlwagner.com.
Okay.
Great.
We'll put all that in the shownotes.
Steph Wagner (26:48):
Perfect.
And Instagram and LinkedIn.
Michelle Gauthier (26:50):
In all the places.
Steph L.
Wagner.
Okay.
Steph Wagner (26:53):
Perfect.
Michelle Gauthier (26:54):
All right.
Thank you so much.
Steph Wagner (26:56):
Well, thank you, Michelle, and thanks for the
great work you are doing.
I love it.
I love your story and howyou're turning it into helping
others as well.
Michelle Gauthier (27:06):
Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed
Working Woman podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at MichelleGauthier.com.
See you next week.
If something unexpected happened tomorrow,
would you feel confidentmanaging your money on your own?
You're listening to OverwhelmedWorking Woman, the podcast that
helps you be more calm and moreproductive by doing less.
I'm your host, MichelleGauthier, a former Overwhelmed
Working Woman and current lifecoach.
On this show, we unpack thestress and pressure that today's
(00:21):
working woman experiences.
And in each episode, you'll geta strategy to bring more calm,
ease, and relaxation to yourlife.
Hi, friends.
Thanks for joining.
I've got a great episode foryou today.
Today I'm joined by StephWagner, and she is the author of
the powerful brand new book,literally coming out today,
called Fly (00:42):
A Woman's Guide to Financial Freedom and Building a
Life You Love.
Her story is really real andpretty common, sadly.
She had a background infinance.
She had a high-powered career,and she decided to stay home for
a couple years to raise herfamily, and her marriage ended
(01:03):
unexpectedly, and she realizedthat she had slowly given away
her financial autonomy and hadto totally rebuild from the
ground up.
And in this episode, she shareswith us why so many smart,
capable women still feelintimidated by money and the
hidden costs of just lettingyour partner handle it.
(01:23):
Even if you stay marriedforever.
And how to go from beingfinancially dependent to
financially free one step at atime.
So even if you're not goingthrough a major life change and
you're in a happy relationship,this is a great conversation
that I think every woman needsto hear.
Okay, so let's get started.
Steph, thank you so much forbeing here today.
I want to jump in right awayand say that I loved your book,
(01:47):
and I think the audience isreally gonna love to hear about
it too.
I loved that the book was partmemoir, like a real vulnerable,
honest one, not the one whereyou're like, oh, this is just
surface level stuff.
And then a complete guide forfinancial freedom.
I love a story in a book, and Ilove a workbook, and this book
is sort of the perfectcombination of both of those.
(02:08):
I took it on vacation with meand I read the whole thing on
the two flights I had for mytrip.
So thank you for writing it.
I think the audience is gonnalove hearing your story, and I'm
so excited to have you on.
Steph Wagner (02:19):
Well, thank you, Michelle.
It's such an honor to be here.
And your words mean a lot to mebecause, you know, I learned
pretty early in my journey ofrebuilding my career, to be
honest.
It took a while.
But as I began to really workto rebuild my career, I learned
I've got to be raw andvulnerable and honest if I'm
gonna ask other people to do thesame that I'm working with,
(02:41):
right?
If I and that's hard.
That was it's easy now becauseI really have seen the benefits
and the beauty that can becreated when we are authentic
and true to who we really are inevery aspect of our lives.
But I grew up in a Germanfamily.
Like we didn't talk aboutanything and we we just
sugarcoated and we walked aroundwith a smile on our face and we
(03:03):
had to look perfect.
And, you know, so using thatmuscle was difficult.
But, you know, there was a realpivotal moment when I began to
write and I began to throw mywork out into the outside world
where I saw these comments pourin of gratitude for being real.
And so when I wrote this book,I was like, I've gotta do it.
I've got to show the world thatwe're not perfect, we're all
(03:24):
just doing the best we can.
And, you know, I'm sure I'llget judged in some regards,
right?
Like some people may, butthat's okay.
Cause yeah, you know, at theend of the day, we know who we
are and we've got to be true towho ourselves.
And and so thank you for yourkind words because that was
really my intent.
And and then also, you know, ifif I can do this, you can too,
(03:46):
right?
Michelle Gauthier (03:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you nailed it.
You did think if that was yourintent, you did an amazing job.
And there were so many things.
Like I said, I was on a plane,so I kept like folding the edge
of the corners of the pages thatI wanted to talk about.
There were so many things thatI wanted to ask you about or
wanted you to share with theaudience.
But before we jump into that,could you just tell them for
(04:08):
people who haven't read yourbook yet what it's about and why
you created it?
Steph Wagner (04:15):
Yeah.
So, you know, my journey, likewe all have a story, right?
We all have our journeys of of,and I'm so fortunate that my
life's journey really ultimatelyled to my mission, which is to
help empower women around theirfinancial lives.
And that journey started wayback when I started my career.
I loved finance.
(04:36):
I loved math.
I didn't know that peopledidn't.
I didn't know that womendidn't.
And I got into this amazingcareer of, you know, investment
banking and private equity.
And I think and a frankly, acareer that's incredibly hard to
have a family.
And I discovered that a coupleof years in as I began to have
my family.
And, you know, I'll tell youthis pivotal moment.
(04:58):
It's in the book, but it just Ithink it serves up this moment
where life began to change.
I was asked to get on a Cessnato go look at a deal in rural
Alabama.
And at the time I was vicepresident of a private equity
fund, didn't even appreciatewhat an amazing career I was,
you know, creating.
And I was pregnant.
(05:18):
I had a two-year-old at home.
My husband traveled 150 nights,and I'm like, something has to
give.
And I quit.
And that was the beginning.
Losing my earning power wasjust a tidbit, right?
But it was the beginning oflosing all of my financial
autonomy.
I eventually gave everythingover to my husband.
We divided and conquered.
He was in finance as well.
(05:40):
I was busy raising kids, he wasbusy working, traveling, and
all that kind of worked until itdid it.
And the next real pivotal momentis when I had learned that he'd
been living a double life andhaving an affair and wanted was
in love with someone else andwanted to end our marriage.
And it was my wake-up callthat, oh my gosh, like nobody
(06:03):
wakes up and says, I think I'lllose my financial independence
today.
Oh my gosh, I have let thishappen over the last 14 years.
And now what am I going to do?
How am I going to supportmyself?
How am I going to support mykids?
And how in the world am I goingto deal with the most
devastating loss of identity?
I was a wife, I was a mother,I'd given everything up for my
(06:24):
family.
And I just quickly realized ifI'm feeling this low, if I'm
feeling this overwhelmed, whatis the average woman feeling who
doesn't have a background infinance?
Right.
Like I had tools to rebuildemotionally.
I was a disaster.
So I leaned into those toolsand started to rebuild, but I
was a mess.
And it became the beginning ofmy, like I said, my mission of
(06:48):
I've got to use this story tohelp women feel like they're not
alone.
That we're all doing the bestwe can.
Right.
But I've got to also help.
And that's when I was like, ifI can use my financial expertise
and what ultimately became mycurriculum and the work that I
ultimately did, I might be ontosomething.
And that was the beginning ofFly.
And there's a reason why it'scalled Fly, is because it's a
(07:10):
women's empowerment bookdisguised as a finance book.
And I want every woman outthere to live life big and to
not play life small.
And your financial well-beingis such a key component of your
ability to do that.
Michelle Gauthier (07:22):
Yes, absolutely.
And, you know, and I mentionedthat the book was so relatable
as a memoir because it was sovulnerable.
That's what I'm talking about.
Because the women who I workwith and women who are listening
to this podcast who are feelingoverwhelmed, if they don't know
what's going on with theirfinancial life and maybe they
have outsourced it to theirpartner and they're just like, I
(07:43):
can't think about that.
Hopefully everything's justgoing fine.
A lot of times they might feellike, well, I just don't get
that, or that's not my cup oftea.
And I love that you are a womanwho was like a vice president
in a private equity firm and ithappened to you too.
It's like such a wake-up callbecause you knew about finance.
(08:03):
You know how important it was,and you still were in that same
situation.
So I'm sure that wasn't a lotof fun to share.
Or maybe it was better once yougot on the other side of it.
But I just appreciate thatbecause I notice all the time
that women, any problem thatthey tell me about, they feel
like they're the only one.
Like everybody else can dothis, but I can't do this.
And I don't know why we do thatway.
(08:24):
We sort of self-isolate, butit's not true.
It's not true.
Steph Wagner (08:29):
And I think one of the reasons we self-isolate in
when it comes to money is we'vebeen taught to never talk about
it, right?
Yeah.
And and and also in many ways,we've been taught not to talk
about the things where we feelshame, right?
That we have to feel strong.
We have to feel, you know, wehave to, especially in a world
right now where this women aresuch badasses, right?
(08:51):
So if there are, if we havethese feelings of inadequacy to
show that and be vulnerable,while it's the right thing to
do, I believe, right?
I think, I think beauty comesout of showing our
vulnerability.
It's still hard and icky.
It's still really tough.
And I will tell you, and Iappreciate your words around the
journey of my discovery ofdespite my financial aptitude,
how did I get in this mess?
(09:12):
You know, I think at the end ofthe day, we tend to repeat the
behaviors that we see growingup, right?
And sometimes we go theopposite way.
But our childhood has a bigimpact.
And I saw money as such asource of conflict in my
childhood, as such a source ofcontrol, as such a bad thing.
(09:32):
Despite my mom had an amazingcareer that in my own marriage,
I just didn't want to fightabout it.
I didn't want to argue.
So I didn't realize I was doingit until I had to realize it,
until I was on my own.
And I sat with myself and said,okay, Steph, why?
Like, why did you abdicate?
Like, actually, you're kind ofbetter at this stuff than he
(09:52):
was.
And what's the mindset thatyou've had that's been holding
you back?
And what do you need to do tochange?
And and I think self-awarenessand personal growth is the key
to anything, money or not.
But it's it's tough work.
But when you do the work, it'sliberating.
Michelle Gauthier (10:07):
Yes.
And I think especially withmoney stories, when we start to
discover, well, this is how Iwas raised, and so this is what
I believed about money, you cansee that and be like, oh, and I
don't even believe that anymore.
Right.
It's just an unconscious beliefthat was playing in my head.
And now I can write it down ona piece of paper and start
working on changing it,reprogramming myself.
So even though your book isabout, I guess your journey was
(10:31):
spurred by a divorce and asituation where you had to
figure it out all out on yourown.
I want anybody who's listeningwho's thinking, well, I'm
happily married and I don't knowanything about money, but it's
just fine for me.
I totally hope that's true.
Even if you stay married forthe entire rest of your life, I
like that your book says this isfor all women.
(10:52):
All women need to practicefinancial freedom because you
never know what's going tohappen, first of all.
And second of all, it's such animportant part of our lives.
So can you tell us a little bitabout how you would define
financial freedom?
I love how you talk about it'snot necessarily a dollar amount.
So what is it?
Steph Wagner (11:10):
It's financial autonomy.
And and we all need it to yourpoint.
And I'll break down thatdefinition here in a second.
But I love that you justhighlighted that because it is
so important for me to get outthere that divorce was my
catalyst, right?
I lived pretty comfy until apivotal moment where the snow
globe was really shooking up,right?
And it was like, but the truthis it could happen.
(11:34):
It could be a job loss, itcould be a medical crisis, it
could be a business failure.
Frankly, it builds betterpartnerships in marriage, right?
That to have conversations andto be on the same page and to
communicate about shared goalsand and how we're going to work
together to achieve those goalsand prioritizing.
And that can only happen whenwe build confidence around
(11:55):
money, right?
So when people say, you know, Ihear out there all the time,
financial independence means younever have to work again.
I'm like, no, it doesn't.
Frankly, to a woman thatdoesn't have control over this
or may not even have a lot ofearning power, that is
overwhelming.
That's like, well, I'll neverachieve it.
I'm going to be working untilthe day I die.
No, it's a mindset.
It's about understanding thatfinancial independence is a
(12:19):
mindset that builds freedom.
It is making a commitment toyourself that no matter what, I
am that am going to do anythingit takes, right?
Not a man, not a boss, not amother, not a father, not a
sister, but me, I'm going totake control over my financial
life and I'm going to do thework to build the tools and the
(12:40):
skills, and frankly, the teamaround me, whether it's a
community, whether it'sadvisors, to make more informed
decisions, to take ownership ofthis.
Because too many of us areabdicating, right?
And I think what might surpriseyou is that married younger
women who are married, they maystrive to be financially
independent early on in theircareers or as they get out of
(13:02):
college.
And they are.
They're more in the game thanever before.
But studies still show thatwhen they marry, there's still
that dividing and conquering.
There's still that abdication.
And that's putting us andfrankly, our partners and our
families at risk.
You also mentioned somethingthat I want to expand upon if
it's okay.
We are living longer than ever.
And it's awesome, right?
(13:23):
The average woman today thathas means to a healthy
lifestyle, good medical care,should expect to live in her
90s.
Well, we outlive men by, youknow, five to 10 to 15 years.
So even if you're in thehappiest marriage, and I'm all
for them, right?
It's great.
But the truth is, is eight outof 10 of us because of
widowhood, because of the riseof grade divorce, you know, the
(13:45):
fact that a lot of women arechoosing to remain single even
after those events.
Eight out of 10 of us canexpect to be to spend many of
our golden years alone.
And a lot of us aren'tfinancially prepared.
So it's so important that weestablish great habits early in
life, whether you are in your20s or 30s, or even before
something might happen.
And again, let's hope it neverdoes.
(14:07):
And then foster a healthierpartnership within your
families.
Michelle Gauthier (14:10):
Yes.
But imagine trying to learn allthis when you're 80, right?
Steph Wagner (14:14):
Like that would be so much harder.
Or when the rub is pulled outand you're emotionally like me a
mess, right?
It's so much harder to seethings clearly and take action.
Michelle Gauthier (14:24):
You mentioned that women are going to live
longer than men.
One of the stats I saw in yourbook that seemed unbelievable to
me that the average age of awidow is 59.
Steph Wagner (14:33):
Yes.
Very few people.
I'm always, I speak a lot aboutthis across the country in
mixed crowds.
And I always pause to say,okay, I'm sorry, men in the
room, but here's the reality,you know, is that the average
age of widowhood in this countryis 59.
And we also are seeing atremendous rise in the number of
people, men and women that arechoosing to divorce later in
(14:55):
life.
And a lot of that is because oflongevity.
They're like, wait, I couldlive to be 90 and I'm really not
that happy.
And I want to thrive.
And so when you combine those,that's how you get to the eight
out of 10.
But when you break down thewidowhood stat, I think, first
of all, you know, that includesa lot of marriages where there
is an age gap.
And frankly, we would thinkthat with medicine, you know,
(15:17):
advancing, you know, truth betold, that number's not
changing.
It's been 59 for years.
So shocking.
I know, and you may know, Imean, I know women that have
been in their 40s and theirhusband has dropped out.
Absolutely.
Just horrible.
And of course, the reverse,too.
You know, I mean, things happenobviously where men become
widow, but it's still, it's avery important step that I don't
(15:39):
think we're talking enoughabout.
Michelle Gauthier (15:40):
Yes.
Yeah.
I definitely highlighted thatand highlighted that people over
50 are getting divorced attwice the rate they used to, but
over 65 is like three times therate that they used to.
So this was not to be scary.
And again, hopefully everythingworks out, but like there's an
80% chance that even if you'rewith someone now, that you will
(16:01):
have to manage your money aloneat some point.
So now is the time.
And they'll have to read thebook, of course, to get all of
the details for exactly how todo that.
But if you were to just imagineyou're talking to someone right
now who's thinking, I'm reallyoverwhelmed with this.
My spouse does everything, butI actually do see the value in
doing it.
And I would like to getstarted.
(16:23):
What is the first thing thatyou would tell them to do?
One small step.
Steph Wagner (16:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
The book really lays out theseven steps to freedom, and you
highlighted that.
But the mostly do build on eachother.
I hope you saw that.
They're really building blocksstep by step.
But the first thing is, and Itouched on it here in the
beginning of our conversation,you've got to unpack your
current relationship with money.
You've got to understand, youhighlighted it beautifully.
(16:49):
You aren't stuck, but you can'tmake change until you survey
the landscape and you reallylook at why have I had these
behaviors with it?
Why have I avoidedconversations or why am I living
beyond my means?
Like, why do I feel that way?
What am I doing?
You have to really take a hardlook at where you are today and
(17:09):
the habits and beliefs that youhave and be honest with
yourself, right?
I mean, I always say talkingwith other people is so
important when it comes tomoney, but you first need to
know how to talk to yourself andbe honest and open.
I then am a real believer ofyou've got to have an honest
conversation with how you wereraised.
What were the money messagesthat you received that may not
(17:32):
work, that may have been nothingbut lies?
I grew up in this family thatwas a lot of penny pinchers.
My grandparents were part ofthe depression generation,
right?
And factory workers fromRockford, Illinois.
Money was not to be talkedabout, but also it was to be
saved, not spent.
And my dad did the opposite.
He lived so beyond our means.
(17:52):
And in always I struggled withthat, you know, because I knew
what he was doing wasn't what wewere taught, right?
But I was confused.
I was left who interpret thingsthat I develop messages on my
own, if that makes sense.
I was taught debt was bad.
You pay cash for everything.
Well, I'm here to tell you debtis not bad.
You just have to use it right.
(18:13):
And unpacking the why behindyour current money story, all
the narrative that you toldyourself.
And then most importantly, andI can kind of break this down
here in the book of how to dothis, but start to get excited
about going forward, to makethat next step, you got to think
about where do you want to go?
You know, how do you want toshift your thinking around
(18:35):
money?
But also, equally important,what do you want for the next
chapter?
What's a vision you have foryour future?
And I think some people mightgo, what does that have to do
with money?
Everything because it helps youcreate goals.
It helps you think big and beinspired and empowered and
inspire other people.
But then you figure out how youcan afford to do it, right?
(18:55):
Yeah.
How you're going to actuallycreate that life.
So that is the first step.
And it's pretty amazing whathappens when you start to
realize, man, I was living in ascarcity mindset.
That's not healthy.
I've got to get into more of agrowth mindset.
And my book hopefully helps youkind of change your thinking.
Michelle Gauthier (19:13):
Yes, absolutely.
And it also guides you throughall those terms that you're
like, what is a Roth IR?
Right.
What does my 401k mean?
So it has all the practicalnuts and bolts in it as well.
But I love that that's thefirst step because I think
that's actually the first stepfor any problem.
That's what we talk aboutrepeatedly on here.
Check your mindset.
What are you thinking about it?
(19:35):
How do you want to think aboutit instead?
What kind of life do you wantto create?
How do you want to feel in yourlife?
And it's the same thing justfor money.
And I love that.
So this is my last question foryou before I ask you the
standard two questions.
Obviously, when you're goingthrough this divorce and you're
completely surprised by it, andyou made a real effort to try to
(19:55):
hang on to that marriage, andit was in the end, it just
didn't work.
So obviously, you're not havinga really fun time at life then.
Looking back now, now thatyou've got this book out there
and you have your whole career,what's been your favorite part
of that transformation, of thegood part of like the
afterstory?
(20:15):
What would you say is yourabsolute favorite part?
Steph Wagner (20:18):
Well, you may be surprised by this answer, but I
have such, I'm gonna get it'sokay.
Go ahead.
I have such profound gratitudefor the muck.
I learned so much about myselfthrough the really hard times,
and I never thought I'd havegratitude around it.
It was so hard.
(20:38):
It was so scary.
I did this alone.
Ultimately, I raised my threelittle boys all by myself.
And I'm proud to say, and Ithink this is actually another
thing I am so proud of is I nowhave a 28, a 26, and 22-year-old
that are thriving.
And it's the result of so muchpain and so much hard work and
so much focus on what I neededto do for me and most
(21:02):
importantly to provide securityfor my three boys.
But the gratitude I have forthe tough times, I think
sometimes when we're in it, it'sso hard to see that there is
this beauty around the otherside.
When you're in the muck, youget stuck.
And I now have a really greatappreciation because we're going
to continue to get in mucks.
Life is nothing buttransitions.
(21:24):
And when we're in these newseasons, we don't even know that
we're going through it andwe're getting to something even
better.
But that skill that I learned,does that make sense?
Absolutely.
So well through all of life'smany chapters, because change
can be scary, very, very scary.
But I learned through that thatthe discomfort you're feeling
(21:46):
means you're growing inside.
Yes.
And really amazing things areon the other side of it when you
lean in, when you getcomfortable in the
uncomfortable.
And that was the result of thisreally tough stuff.
But I couldn't be happier.
Oftentimes people say, Do youhave any regrets?
I don't believe in them.
I think it's life is nothingbut things that provide us
lessons to grow from.
Michelle Gauthier (22:08):
Yeah.
So absolutely.
And sometimes you know that theupside is coming.
You're gonna understand one daywhy this is happening and why
this is for good.
And it's really tough whenyou're in the muck.
It is.
But I think being able to beout of it, that's wonderful.
I I love Pink, the singer Pink,and she has lyrics to a song
that say, I've been to thebottom, so there's nothing to
(22:30):
fear.
And I'm not saying nothingworse could ever happen to me,
but when you have really been tothe bottom of your divorce and
starting your whole life over,and in my case, quitting my job
and starting a new one and allthat stuff, it just feels like,
oh my gosh, but now I have themost self-belief.
Like I could you could justdrop me in some foreign country
and I'll figure something out ofit.
Steph Wagner (22:51):
It's such a gift of the confidence that we we
built inside of us, ittranscends and and it applies to
all aspects of our life.
So I love that you just saidthat.
It's the gift that we wouldn'thave that new muscle if we
didn't go through those hardtimes.
Michelle Gauthier (23:05):
Yeah, if I didn't have the opportunity to
go to the bottom.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So thank you.
Steph Wagner (23:11):
I thank my ex-husband every day.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Which sounds so weird, but Ireally do.
I really do.
Oh my gosh.
Michelle Gauthier (23:20):
Okay, now I want to ask you the questions I
ask everybody.
So, what is something that youdo when you feel overwhelmed to
make yourself feel better orless overwhelmed?
Steph Wagner (23:29):
I get on a bike.
Cycling is my absolute passion,joy, but it's funny.
It it works my muscles, but itworks my mind.
It gives me quiet time.
I'm going too fast to look, getdistracted.
My eyes are straight ahead.
And half this book, honestly,was written on a bike.
I would get off and dictate.
(23:50):
Oh, that's so great.
I I think broadly speaking,when you're overwhelmed, my
advice is understand thatwalking, cycling, using your
right and your left reallybrings balance back and puts you
in a much more balancedmindset.
It's really, again, using theright and the left of your body,
whether you're on a bike oryou're walking.
(24:10):
It's so yes.
Yeah.
Michelle Gauthier (24:12):
And it's so exciting because I think when
we're overwhelmed, we have atendency to try to like sit at
our desk and produce something.
But if you really want to, youneed to walk away.
Yeah.
Right away in your case.
Okay.
I love that.
We've never had biking as ananswer before.
I love that.
And then secondly, what issomething that you do to save
time or just do less?
Steph Wagner (24:35):
Well, I must admit, I need to do more of
that.
Yes.
That that needs to be a 2026top of the list goal.
But I think the one thing is Ilean into mobile Starbucks.
Mobile Starbucks.
I love that.
Number one, it does make it somuch easier when you're in an
airport to like on the plane asyou're landing, like put your
(24:56):
order in and just swing by andpick it up between.
Yep.
But it also doesn't cost youany more money.
Yes.
Yes.
So it's good for both of yourbrains.
Michelle Gauthier (25:04):
Exactly.
Steph Wagner (25:05):
Financial brain and not the regular brain.
Michelle Gauthier (25:07):
Yes, that's exactly when I've done that at
the airport before, especiallylike DFW or somewhere where it's
huge and it's packed andeverything.
And I think, doesn't everybodyknow about this?
I'm just walking up and justgrabbing my coffee.
I want to shout it from therooftop.
Do you realize the time youcould save in that long?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Oh my gosh.
My brain is just wired forefficiency and I cannot help it.
(25:28):
I'm always looking for moreefficient ways to do something.
So when other people don't doit, I want to be like, excuse
me, everyone.
I wanted you to know if you getthis app.
And if forward, Michelle, Ilove it.
Yes, exactly.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on.
And I loved your book and Iloved getting to know you.
So if people have beenlistening and they want the book
(25:49):
fly, where can they find it?
Steph Wagner (25:52):
Well, you can find it on all the major book
distributions.
Amazon, Barnes and Noble,Target, Walmart.
It's it's it's everywhere.
I'm so blessed.
And also the audiobook.
I I had the honor, which wasamazing.
I had to actually audition,Michelle.
It was crazy.
But then I had the honor ofrecording my own story and it it
really meant a lot to me andwas one of the most amazing
(26:12):
experiences I've ever had.
So my mesh.
Yeah.
Michelle Gauthier (26:15):
It was you had to audition.
Like they were going to getsomebody else to be you if you
were they're enough you.
Steph Wagner (26:21):
Okay.
Michelle Gauthier (26:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Steph Wagner (26:23):
I was like, wait, what?
And they're like, we need afive-minute reading.
I'm like, okay.
So I was thrilled.
Michelle Gauthier (26:29):
If that wasn't somebody's natural knack
to be good at speaking, that itcould really take away from the
book.
Oh, that is so fun.
What a neat experience.
Steph Wagner (26:36):
Yeah, it was.
It was an honor.
And then also you can find meon my website, you know,
stephellwagner.com.
Michelle Gauthier (26:42):
Okay.
So stephlwagner.com.
Okay.
Great.
We'll put all that in the shownotes.
Steph Wagner (26:48):
Perfect.
And Instagram and LinkedIn.
Michelle Gauthier (26:50):
In all the places.
Steph L.
Wagner.
Okay.
Steph Wagner (26:53):
Perfect.
Michelle Gauthier (26:54):
All right.
Thank you so much.
Steph Wagner (26:56):
Well, thank you, Michelle, and thanks for the
great work you are doing.
I love it.
I love your story and howyou're turning it into helping
others as well.
Michelle Gauthier (27:06):
Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed
Working Woman podcast.
If you want to learn more aboutmy work, head over to my
website at MichelleGauthier.com.
See you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.