S2E11 We Might Regret This: 10 Bold Marketing and Branding Predictions for 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Personal branding is going to become.
It's not an option anymore,it's a non-negotiable.
It's like if you are an ownerof a business, a brand, anything
like that, your own personalbrand is going to be essential
to the success of your company.
Welcome everybody to thisepisode of Paid to Create.
I'm AJ Roberts.
Alongside me is Sarah Jenkins.

(00:20):
And as 2024 comes to a close,we thought we'd do a special
episode and kind of give you our2025 marketing business
predictions.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
That would be totally right and accurate.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Oh yeah, we'll probably be wrong on all 10, but
these are our 10.
So this is, at least in ourworld, what we see and how we
feel.
So let's kick it off with ourfirst one, which is that
personal branding is going tobecome it's not an option
anymore, it's a non-negotiable.
It's like if you are an ownerof a business, a brand, anything

(00:54):
like that, your own personalbrand is going to be essential
to the success of your company.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Why do you think that ?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I think, just as we look at the landscape of social
media and things like that, youactually look at buying trends.
Something like 60% of peopleare making buying decisions
based on an influencer, someonethey follow, someone that they
like, they trust.
I think that more people arelooking for when they find a
brand, they want to know whoowns it.

(01:23):
They want to know, and I thinkpeople are making more decisions
buying decisions based on whatthey believe.
The person's personal ethicsare personal, like things they
support, things like that, youknow, and traditionally a lot of
businesses were scared of thisstuff, right, they didn't want,
like individuals, to know theirpersonal beliefs because it

(01:44):
didn't their personal belief,didn't really represent the
brand, it was just theirpersonal belief.
But I think that with the waythe market is, there's enough
people out there to support you,not support you, and almost
that polarizing effect that ithas when they do know your
personal beliefs um, actually isactually is just as much as a

(02:06):
benefit now than it could be anegative.
And so for every person that youoffend, you gain somebody in
support, and we've seen that intrends like, if we look at the
cancel culture trend, right,kind of peaked two, three years
ago and now things that peoplewere getting canceled for back
then, now people are pushingback against and they're they're

(02:27):
using, they're they're notafraid to say that stuff right
now to stand up for themselves.
Not as many people are asapologetic as before on the
topics that they believe in, andso it was like wait, like I'm
allowed freedom of speech too,and I think that people are just
in general, general, like theyare looking for people that they
they connect to, people theyfeel like are their people, and

(02:49):
because the internet is so bigin terms of connecting us
worldwide, it's like people areokay, like buying a pair of
boots from an American companyif they're in England, if they
align with, like, what thatcompany's about, right.
If it's an outdoor company thatthat believes in the same
adventure lifestyle as them,they kind of resonate with the
brand, but it's the individualof the brand that they connect

(03:11):
with.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, I've seen it go backwards too with the
Budweiser.
The whole thing that they didthat crashed their sales, I
think by a third.
They lost in sales for havingthose company beliefs come to a
head in public where a lot ofthe public that drinks their
brand did not agree.
So, go the other way too.
Usually it's a good thing.
Usually it's yeah.
Like you said, if you'relooking for someone, if I'm

(03:34):
doing something homemade orwhatever, especially because
Amazon's blowing up with allthese different brands you've
never heard of from differentcountries, you don't care about
when it's something homegrown alittle more, that's got somebody
saying oh look, I made thesemyself, this is great.
I only have 10.
I can make 10 a year, whatever.
Now, it's got the exclusivity,it's got that personal personal
touch.
I wonder, though um, I likequestioning, it's fun.

(03:55):
What if you've got a brand, oryou don't have a brand yet
you've got a product coming outthat doesn't require a personal
touch?
You said I think it's necessary, but if you sell extension
cords, what are you going to do?

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah.
So I think the problem is, forthat example specifically like
an extension cord, like you'renot going to win unless you're
Amazon, right, Because it's aproduct that's just needed,
right?
Most people, when they buy anextension cord, aren't even
looking at what the brand isright, I'm not sure what the

(04:29):
brand is.
Yeah, so it's like I need a12-foot extension outdoor
extension cord boom.
Buy right Now if you wanted tomake a splash in the extension
cord world.
Right, you have to find a USPlike unique selling purpose.
You have to be different insome way.
Shape or form, right, you haveto find a USP like unique
selling property.
You have to be different insome way.
Shape or form.
Right Now, I don't know enoughabout that off the top of my

(04:52):
head to come up with a USP, butit could be everything from the
materials that are used, like ifit was like recycled plastic or
you know, like it's friendly tothe environment or somehow
makes it where you consume lesselectricity, right, so there's a
savings thing.
So you have to find that stuff.

(05:13):
Now, how do you get attentionfor that?
Right, okay, and this is wherewe go back to Budweiser.
Budweiser has made necessarily,um, a mistake, but what they've
done, that the reason they hadthis flip flop, right, and they
managed to kind of save thebrand a little bit because they

(05:33):
have the UFC deal.
They bought in Shane Gillis,who's like, arguably one of the
best comedians right now and hebrings a lot of that he's very
funny, yeah, but it's to theblue collar community, right?
Like that's his, like comedicaudience is more blue collar,
like worker type people that BudLight targets, um, for their
buyer, their buyer persona.
Um, they made the mistake withthe um.

(05:56):
I'm not even sure if it's atrans woman, I'm not sure if it
was just a, if it's a millennial, whatever her name was.
The mistake they made there islike their audience is not that
type of person, right?
So?
So they put they had arepresentative for the company
that didn't align with thevalues of the audience, right?
That was the issue, right?

Speaker 2 (06:16):
I agree.
I think it wasn't even thewhole issue.
There's a lot of brands, that'snot a hardworking factory
person that wants a bud lightafter a hard day's work.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
If it was a makeup brand, there would probably be a
lot less controversy,controversy right, it was makeup
, they should exactly so.
So so it was a bad choice interms of, like, trying to be
cool, relevant, but notunderstanding your audience.
Now, that said, who owns budlight?
right, we don't know, right, butwho owns that right?

(06:44):
Like you, look, you can look itup, but, like, if that, like,
let's just say they're like theylive on a ranch people are
going to connect with that typeof person for that brand, right.
And so this is what I'm gettingat is I think we're moving past
this, um, the ability forindividuals to have a brand that
they don't actually represent,live by, believe in.

(07:07):
And we're moving past the daysof pure oh, what can we launch
to make money?
Right, and I'll use thesupplement industry as another
example.
I've gone to the big shows wherethe owners of the supplement
companies are awarding prizemoney and stuff like that, and
some of the biggest supplementcompanies have some of the
biggest owners.

(07:28):
Right, and 20 years ago, likein fitness, there was a lot of
people who are like, don't lookin shape, who own different
fitness companies.
Fast forward to today and it'sbecoming like where the audience
is, I'm not going to listen tosomebody or purchase products

(07:49):
from somebody who doesn't livethe brand, and there still is
the ability to create a globalbrand that is faceless, but what
we're seeing is it's not reallyfaceless.
They're borrowing faces, right.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Right, because the Amazon they do.
Someone that actually used theextension cord shows you how it
works, shows you where it savesyou money or looks or it's more
discreet or whatever.
You've got the.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Amazon stores videos that people are doing basically
QVC online.
Tiktok stores QVC online.
So you're still using apersonality to sell the product
and the assumption is that thatpersonality and who they are and
what they represent representsthe product.
Therefore they'll they'llpurchase, because there's a
level of that.
I think, moving forward, it'sgoing to go the next level,

(08:39):
where it's like like people wantto know who works for you,
people want to know what theylook like.
Right, you know, if you're, ifyou're running a certain
business, like that businessbetter be represented by the
people you know.
And it's like kind of I've seenthis in the financial world
where you know people will likewait, I don't want to take
financial advice from someonewho's not made more money than

(09:00):
me.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, yeah, that logically sort of makes a little
bit of sense.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right, but like how the entire industry is built off
of people who just manage otherpeople's money, that they
didn't actually have a money inthe first place.
They made their money managingpeople's money, so we have a lot
of industries like that.
I don't know if it happened in2025 specifically, but we seem
to be moving away from peoplewho, like the old saying, was
those that can't do teach.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
We're moving away from that because those that do
and now realizing they can alsoteach.
So we're seeing people who havefour or five brands that
they've started, who go oh, I'mgoing to throw my hat in the
ring and blow my social media up.
And because they have thosebrands, they have the, have the
spoils of those brands the car,the house like they live, the

(09:49):
lifestyle they fly private, notbecause they want to show it off
on social media, but becausethey have meetings they have to
go to and they have to get on aplane, fly to New York, fly back
to California, and they don'twant to go through and they do
all of this stuff.
And then they've suddenlystarted oh, why don't I just
document it?
They can afford the camera crewto follow that, so, so none of
what they're doing is fake.
And then the people that arerenting those things for the

(10:12):
videos, for the stuff, like allof a sudden those people are
being very exposed becausepeople are going well, what's
the real business you've builtRight?
And I think that's just from alayer of transparency that the
internet has bought with socialmedia, where at first we all
believe that these lifestylespeople were showing us was real,
and then you start to see thecracks in the thing and you go

(10:32):
well, wait a minute.
Most of the people who arerunning big businesses, they're
not out there doing this stuffwhile they're building the
business.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
You are a prime example of where this actually
hits home, though, because youhave a world record for lifting.
If you think, maybe if you saidhey, I'd like to talk about
lifting the advantages, thedisadvantages, the struggles.
I'd like to be very open-mindedwith y'all about what
supplements you need to take andhow you need to watch what you
eat, and you know how you divideyour day to get that goal that

(11:03):
you're looking for, sort ofbecause you have that experience
and that plaque on your wallsomewhere.
I assume that people do want tolisten to you because you've
proven you can do it and youhave lived it.
You've done it, done it right.
So you've got the epitome ofthe best personal brand, and
this is why you can sell yourconsulting, your nutritional

(11:24):
aspect of your life, all thethings that you've done because
you've already proven you'vedone it right.
So if you take someone thatmanages money, they have to have
made it from their own money,managed as well, like they have
to show their own portfolio.
So I guess the personal brandis going to go even better.
You're right.
This year, um, I went to.
I don't like shopping.
I know it seems weird becauseI'm a girl and I like pretty

(11:44):
shiny things, but I don't likeshopping.
So I'll go to the mall and I goto this store, um, alice and
Olivia and I meet the salesladies there and I just sit
there and they bring me achampagne and then they show me
clothes that will fit me andthey're all different sizes.
There's not the, you're a size,you know, eight.
I'm like boo and fricking skirt.
One is more stretchy than theother one.
But the sizes don't matter ifyou're having someone pick it

(12:06):
for you and you don't look atthem at all, you just put it on.
You're like looks great,awesome.
And then now I know they'retalking about the owner who
decided the brand and they'redoing the fake leather right, so
it's more sustainable, it'smore environmentally friendly,
whatever.
I really liked learning aboutthe store owner when I was in
there, so I've gone there threeor four times and refreshed my
wardrobe because they're ahand-holding we care about you,

(12:26):
we'll make you look your best.
And the owner is very involvedand they're in every store.
I don't understand how thislittle stupid boutique in the
UTC mall has these greatemployees selling that brand
based on the owner, and they'rein every Neiman's, they're in
every Nordstrom's, every.
How do you get thosesalespeople so enriched in your
culture of your company to sellit that I care?

(12:47):
Now I'm like, shoot, that's theonly brand I really want to buy
right now for businessy thingsand other fun accoutrement well,
fashion is a great example tolook into.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
if you are thinking, if you listen and you're going,
you know they're making a littlebit of sense.
I want to go deeper with this.
Fashion is a great place tostart because if you look at tom
ford, right and and always agood option you you look at um,
most of the kate spade, likemost of the um top fashion
designers, like their name istheir brand right, right and

(13:16):
yeah, the brand has grownbecause it is them creating.
It's not like and I'm notsaying nike hasn't done a great
job, they've done a phenomenaljob, right, but like Nike did it
from borrowed association withathletes Right.
Not off of the owner Nowdepending on what you do every
day, though something you wantto buy the shoe from depending

(13:38):
on, like, what your brand islike, it may benefit you Like,
um, you know, uh, what yourbrand is like, it may benefit
you Like, um, you know, uh, samovens.
You know he partnered with AlexMosey for school because he
didn't, he doesn't, he neverwanted to do social media, right
.
And I was in a business groupwith Sam and we talked quite a
bit, um, and what I noticed withhim was like he was doing

(13:59):
things because he knew it, heneeded to, but he didn't
actually want to be on socialmedia, he didn't actually want
to post every day, he didn'twant to do any of that stuff.
And so when he moved fromconsulting to software, it was
another way for him to step backbehind the scenes.
And now it's not about me, it'sabout my product, right.
And then he got to a pointwhere he's like wait, I need a

(14:20):
face, I don't want to be theface, okay, I'll partner with
someone who's cool with being aface, right.
Like he partnered with the guywho already kind of had the
audience and everything likethat.
And he got the right partnerbecause Alex has gone all in
with him, like it's all aboutschool.
Like you know, he like livesand breathes the brand and he
provides a lot of value to thecommunity.
But my point with that is isthat, like that product, even

(14:44):
though it was sam's like, didn'thave a face and then he, he
like, partnered with the rightperson for a face.
So, like, that brand may worklike that, but, like in general,
like it's easy, like themovements, the, the passion that
you experience when you go tothat personal shopper.
It's because the owner is thebrand, virgin's, the same way,
virgin and richard, branson,like richard's not involved in

(15:07):
most of the companies, right,because they're more like a
license, very similar to Trump,where they license the name.
But like, you know what isinvolved Branson's personality,
branson's culture, branson'slike and it is like an extension
of Branson.
So when you go Virgin like andyou experience a Virgin product,
whether it's airlines, whetherit's hotels, whether it's trains
, whatever, and you experience avirgin product, whether it's
airlines, whether it's hotels,whether it's trains, whatever it

(15:27):
is, you experience there's likea piece of Richard, that's a
part of it, that cheekiness,that naughtiness, that middle
finger to the bigger companieslike we do it better.
Exactly so when you think aboutthis stuff, like that's what
people need to be thinking aboutwith their own brand, is not
saying that you shouldn't have abit like a company brand and
like it doesn't have to be onein the same, doesn't have to be
the same name, but likeunderstand that as the ceo of a

(15:51):
company, like people will followyou before they follow your
company I think your predictionnumber one.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I know you've got 10, but your number one is I.
Besides, I asked why, because Ilike asking you why.
Um, I think it is going to beincredible to look at the
company's about page Like youdon't know.
They're saying the Instagramads you're seeing could be like
Gucci sunglasses, but they'renot.
The replica is made in China.
You'll never know.
They duplicate the Gucci siteon the Instagram and you think

(16:17):
you're buying from Gucci, butyou're not right.
So everything has to be.
You want to check their termsof service.
You want to check where theircountry is located, where their
ownership lies.
You are getting more carefulwith your money because people
are getting ripped off all thetime with these fake products
and fake ads and fake websites,and AI is helping them.
So if you get more personal,like you said, if you're selling
something and you can putyourself in the shoes of your
buyer or you can relate to thosebuyers the right way and it's

(16:40):
genuine, like your about page,your company culture, what did
we say?
What did we do for our company?
For Card Show?
We did the what's it called.
It's our quality, our terms,Core values, yes, our core
values.
We designed those as a company.
We had everybody input theirideas of what our core values
should be, and then they allbelieve in them.

(17:01):
So our whole staff believes inthem, right?
So then, when you do that foryour company, whether it's
growing or starting, if you hey,we believe in this.
You know pleather.
It's sustainability, it'srecyclable, whatever it's got
more energy, lower your bill bybuying this fridge.
Those are the things thatpeople are looking for now
because they don't want to befraught with fraud.
It's just overwhelming fraud.

(17:22):
And now Amazon's havingeverything I buy is, you know,
from Shizen in China or whateverI'm like.
That's not what I wanted.
I wanted at least I know the USrules to make sure its quality
are right there, but I don'tknow that country's rules, so I
don't want to buy from themuntil I understand what I'm
purchasing what the?

(17:42):
money is worth.
Like the meme that shows TimuWarehouse up in smoke and flames
, it goes, we estimate thatthere's a loss of at least $258.
So, yeah, I think the personalbrand now that we're getting
cautious.
Why do we care about where weput our money?

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, I think because , like, the idea of consumerism
has come to a point where peopleknow it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think, yeah, the overconsumption.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
And so there's the ability to make yourself feel
good.
So very rarely do you gosomewhere where it doesn't ask
you on a roundup to donate forcharity.
Now I assume that money goes tocharity.
There's probably a bunch ofbenefits for the company to be
giving money to charity thatthey get from your donation,
that they actually, because thedonation doesn't come from Sarah

(18:30):
Jenkins, the donation comesfrom Vons, right.
So, like on paper, you gaveVons an extra dollar, but they
report it as a transaction andthen they give the money away.
They're not.
They're not.
I could be completely wrongbecause I don't know that
business, I don't know theirbooks, but in my experience,
usually when you donate to acompany, the company then

(18:51):
donates to the charity as awhole, right, so they don't do
72 individual transactions forthe day.
They do one transaction fromthe company at the end of the
day.
So the company's the donator,not the individual, otherwise
you at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
So the company's the donator, not the individual.
Otherwise you'd be asked foryour tax number and everything
when you're giving it, becauseyou get credit personally, right
?
Nope, don't get that.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
So we don't think about that, though we go-.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
No, charity no.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Or you go yes, because you're like, oh, it's
only a dollar, and so it givesyou this sense of giving right,
and so we see a lot of puppies.
you know, tom shoes is a greatexample like buy a pair of shoes
, give a pair of shoes, oh youdon't know what.
You don't ever see those shoesgiven to the individual.
I know tom has videos and stuffand they've done the

(19:34):
documentary so you can see allof that.
But, like, when you purchasethose shoes, it's only in your
mind that somebody else is beinggiven a pair of shoes.
It's not like it's not sayingyou actually you don't get the
extra pair and then you go givethem to someone, right, they do
all of that and so you know, ofcourse you're buying a shoe at
retail, they're giving a shoe atcost and it becomes an

(19:55):
operational cost.
So again, why do we do it?
I think it's because it justmakes that there's this ability
for us to feel good about whereour money's going, feel good
about spending money.
We shouldn't, you know, and Ithink that those are things that
like make it easy for people tojustify.
You know, people are reallygood at buying gifts for other

(20:15):
people and spending more moneythan they should on other people
because there's there's thehappiness in giving right, so
it's not even for them, but butlike it is, though it is.
When I give a gift, it's for me,it's to make me happy, exactly
so I think that's why, why itmatters for us, because what we
want, what we don't want to do,is give money to a company that
then you know is doing things wedon't align with, because then

(20:38):
it doesn't make us feel good.
You know, if there's a, if youfind out there's a company
attached to child sextrafficking, you're like oh F,
that I'm not giving my money tothose people.
It doesn't matter what thecompany is, it doesn't matter
what they offer you.
You're immediately going to belike screw that, screw that
company, even if it's just arumor, because it's like you're

(20:58):
so against it.
But if, on the other side, thatcompany is supporting the
orphanages of America, you go,oh, we need.
Other side, that company is, um, you know, uh, supporting the
orphanages of america, you go,oh, we need to give that company
more money, right, so it's soand it's like you.
You don't actually know howmuch is going, how much not like
, but it's just the ability tofeel good about your purchases I

(21:19):
am.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I hate when the whole the media is like oh you know,
take it from the company, theshoplifting and stuff.
Oh, it's just the bigcorporations.
Big corporations are owned bypeople, families.
Their income is reliant on thatcompany doing well, like it's
never a big company.
It's always, always people atthe end of it.
But people don't think that wayright now.
So they want to even more drilldown to that personal story of

(21:40):
your brand and it's getting moreand more important.
Everyone just got robbed andall the stores closed
Nordstrom's, macy's, whatever,up in San Francisco because
everyone's like oh, it's just abig company, they've got
insurance, they can handle it,they can afford it, but it does
take from somebody.
It takes money from a person, afamily, kids, whatever.
So you have to think that way,but we don't.
So you have to look at thepersonal brand being the biggest

(22:02):
incentive.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Honestly, it always goes back to the fact that, no
matter what happens, you willpay the price.
So you can say this, you cansay that you can be like, oh,
they should pay their fair share, as if they're not paying taxes
already.
But at the end of the day,regardless, if a corporation, a

(22:26):
business, is supposed to makemoney, if profits are cut, they
find a way to make profit.
And if that means that theyhave to pass that on to the user
, they will.
And that's why our groceriescost three times what they used
to, because we still have peopletrying to make up from the
downturn of COVID.
We still have people trying tomake up from the shortage in
supplies because of- Well, andthey saw it.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
They sell eggs for five bucks.
They used to be $2.
Now they can, people will buythem, so they don't have to go
back down.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
They never go back down.
Yeah, the farmers don't getpaid the extra, but the grocery
stores keep it.
And again, it's like, whoregulates all of that?
Who does that?
It's beyond our thing.
But what you can control foryou and your business is the,
the transparency, and that comeswith a personal brand and it
just makes it easier for someoneto make that decision.

(23:10):
And you know, yes, you willhave to get comfortable with
people being negative towardsyou, because nothing you do is
going to be right for everybodyand all the time.
Um, but at the end of the day,like, the people that believe in
you, the people that supportyou, will support you harder
because they're, they connect toyou, so they're more likely to
be repeat buyers.

(23:30):
And I think that like that'sreally what it is is people are
aligning with people.
Like that they feel like a likethem or people they aspire to
be, and then they want tosupport that person.
And it's like almost goes backto like tribal culture of like
bargaining, where we're justhelping each other.
Like I don't think we've everlost that as a human, like that
desire to be like tribal andlike take care of our fellow man

(23:52):
, and so it's one way.
I think you asked why.
I think that's another needthat's being met of ours.
Is this like taking care of ourfellow man and so like it
becomes ridiculous because you,these, a lot of these people
that we feel that way towards,don't need our money, right, but
like we still want to supportthem or we're still proud of
their mission and we're stilllike we agree with what they're

(24:12):
saying.
And it's like a lot of peopleI'm a little different because I
always think if they can do it,I can do it, but a lot of
people they don't want to be theleader, right, they want to
support the leader.
They want to be a part of themovement.
Don't want to be the leader,right, they want to support the
leader.
They want to be a part of themovement and so, like, that's
their way of being a part of itthrough their donations, through
their support and purchasingthings, through the sharing of
their content, they do what like.

(24:35):
It's like when you go to churchand you're asked, like,
everybody's asked to volunteer,but maybe 1% of people who go to
church volunteer.
So it's like when you look atthe I did when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
That goes.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Not everybody's going to tithe, not everybody's, but
you get the people that do whodo really well.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
What is number two?

Speaker 1 (24:56):
So number two is basically AI becoming even more
part of business, specificallyin terms of personalization.
I think, like from a customerjourney standpoint, the longer
you have a relationship with acompany, the more AI is going to
learn, the more customeverything's going to be, from

(25:17):
marketing messages to emails, totext messages, to content
creation.
It's going to be easier tosegment and customize, like your
marketing towards your um listor your audience, because you're
going to be getting a lot moreum data and the ai is going to

(25:40):
be smart enough to recognize thepatterns and be like you know,
like after a certain period, youcome in and you have certain
data points that make you justlike you know Susie Q, and so we
go okay, let's start, sarah,here, based on your clicks, your
open rates, everything likethat, and I think that what
we're going to see is AIintelligence in terms of when to

(26:01):
send you an email, when to sendyou a text message, when to
give you a phone call, knowingyour availability, knowing when
you're, because Never a phonecall.
We've seen like levels ofintelligent with advertising
where, like you know, you can dogeo-targeting and when you're
close to a Starbucks boom, youget an ad for Starbucks with a
discount because they're hopingthat will catch you.
You'll go in.
That I like and purchase.

(26:21):
So we already have have theseintelligent models.
I just think it's going to goto the next level where,
basically, from a few questions,a few data points or just from
email opt-in, that data isalready available for the AI to
extract information from andthey're going to be able to
purchase from Google data thatsays when you open your emails.

(26:42):
And so if there's a two-hourwindow a day, every day, and you
check those emails every twodays, well, I'm going to be
making sure you're getting adelivery at that point because I
don't want it to get lost inyour inbox from the 22 hours
you're not checking your emails.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I agree that this is the year the AI is going to
become important, but I think itneeds to be honed in and this
is the year they'll probablyfigure out on honing in on that
data better.
So Target already did it.
They were sending you thepamphlets in the mail, the
coupons, whatever.
And they saw your purchasinghistory and everyone, like when
we grew up in this small littleareas, you only have like one
Target and 30, 60 miles,whatever.
So you go to the Target foryour regular things Michigan, we

(27:16):
have Meijer as well but you goand shop for all your regular
things at the same stores, yoursame little community, and then
they would send.
What I read back in the day wasTarget would send someone now
coupons for diapers because theyalready knew they're pregnant
before.
That girl knew because shedidn't buy those tampons at the
right, the normal time orwhatever.
Like they know your habits sowell it's almost scary which now

(27:38):
we've got the AI on theinternet to do it for us, which
is awesome.
I even look at my Instagram.
I was like, well, this is myInstagram.
They're selling, they'relooking at like baby pony
rocking horses or sparkly newboots.
I'm like I am interested inInstagram for what I can buy
it's.
It's gotten really, really cool, but then it gets a little
creepy too.
I'll get an email, hey, sarah.
We've, we've heard that youreally, you know, enjoy doing

(27:59):
the Legos and that's superawesome.
You love building, obviously,so let's build over here at our
SaaS company.
Blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like creepy.
I've never posted that I likeLegos until this podcast Never.
How the F do they know thatabout me?
So I don't love it.
It's way too personal.
Delete block blah.
So if they hone it in a littlebit more genuinely to what the
customer wants to read, doesn'toverstep Like no, no, no, you

(28:23):
don't get to know what my kidsare up to.
They do, they know.
All my kids have phones too.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
But I think it's similar to what Target did
sending you the diapers not you,but sending the coupon for
diapers before you know that's.
That's where the intelligence isgoing to come in, and you know
it might not even be for theindividual business but, like
the platform you advertise on,all of a sudden, when you add

(28:47):
your 100 buyers and you create alookalike audience, the level
of accuracy in the lookalikeaudience is going to get even
better, right, and so whenFacebook serves your ad up, it's
going to become even better intargeting the right people,
going to become even better intargeting the right people.

(29:08):
And again, like it's done thisto a degree and you've seen
those examples where you knowthere's a conversation and then
you get hit with the ad and so,like it's happening I just think
it's going to go even deeper,even more personalized, like and
it and it and it's creepy to,to to a lot of people, but some
people are so unaware that it'sjust coincidence in their mind,
right?
But I think we're going to seethat start to leak into the

(29:31):
other platforms that we use torun our businesses, into our
CRMs, into our projectmanagement tools, into our
calendar systems, and we'regoing to see that.
And as the more integrated allthis stuff becomes, the more
they have on you, the morepersonalized it can be, I think
it would be more helpful.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
I think it's better, like if you go to Cartwright and
you say, okay, everyone usespages, but only 50% of our
people are using funnels.
Then if you see that the funnelactually creates more income,
as the people that use thefunnels after pages do, then
you'll start the AI should atleast, if we program it
correctly will start marketingfunnels to someone that builds
their first page.
So then you're helping thatperson progress in their own

(30:09):
business, their own company.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Exactly.
It knows exactly where you areand exactly what you need right
now.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, I think that'd be helpful.
I think it'd be good forcompanies to do.
That would help the customermake more, better availability
of that product.
If you look on Amazon Prime,they just started doing it,
amazon Prime.
Now when you pause it, it'llhave a commercial load.
While it's paused, that'ssilent or whatever.
And then it will say click hereto add to cart.
Like when you're in your AmazonPrime.

(30:36):
You paused it.
Now it's a commercial forshampoo.
You can click with your remote.
Add a cart on your Amazon.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
I'm like whoa.
I really like this button andthe ad is probably based off of
something.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
They have that I already buy on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
You've purchased, or it's very similar or you've
talked about.
You have split ends and, likeall of a sudden, amazon's
advertising, you the non-splitends product.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
I think I need that yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, and I think that the last thing on this,
when I think about it with thepersonalization specifically, is
take Webinar Jam, for example.
Right now, if you want to run awebinar, you might be in a
group or you might be in theWebinar Jam group and you might
ask people when's the best timeto run a webinar and

(31:18):
traditionally you're going toget told Tuesday.
Wednesday, Thursday between 10and 1.
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdaybetween 10 and 1.
But what if you have a list ofpeople and there's an AI chat
and you've been marketing tothese people and we know when

(31:39):
they open their emails, we knowwhen they're online, we know all
this stuff because all thatdata is available.
And you ask your AI when's thebest time for me to run a
webinar to my audience?
And AI says, you know, Thursdayat 7 pm.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Well, I'll book it, then, why not?

Speaker 1 (31:55):
That is going to give you the highest chance of
getting the most people on, getmost conversions.
So what it gives you is a levelof intelligence that allows you
to customize the experience tothe user but also optimize your
ability to set yourself up tohave the best webinar.
And I think we're going to seethat from email.
I think we're going to see thatthrough custom messaging on

(32:17):
pages, like when someone landson a page if they've been to
your website before.
We kind of have behavioraladaptive marketing with katra,
where you can hide and showbased on tags.
That's only going to go toanother level where, like now,
you don't even have to add thetags, it's just a cookie and the
cookies deciding what'shappening or not.
A cookie, because we're movingaway from cookies.
But you know, uh, ip,fingerprint or whatever it is.

(32:38):
But like we're getting, we'regoing to be getting to levels
and a lot of people probably,like I, won't happen.
Well, I think it's going tohappen in 2025 because of the
speed of the development ofstuff, but like basically, here
we can, we can get it donebasically like it's not going to
take much but a few things toto figure out somebody pretty
deep and have a pretty activeguesstimate at first.
that then gets refined within afew months and all of a sudden

(33:02):
you know every email you get islike man.
It's like being in that Sundayservice where the pastor's
talking and you're sweatingbecause you're like he's, he's
looking right at me, he's sayingand it's like it's everybody's
feeling like that.
It just happens to feel likeit's personal, it feels because,
the yeah, because the topic isvery relevant, very with the
time, and that's that's what Ithink we're going to see happen
in terms of the AIpersonalization.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
I think that benefits everybody.
It does convince you to spendmore money, probably, than you
should maybe budget better.
But yeah, I think it's going tobenefit the companies who are
using it and the consumer thatacknowledges it.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I didn't say it was necessarily a good thing for
consumers.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Well no, I own enough shoes.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Talking to consumers, I think the next thing I think
is going to change and I thinkwe've already seen it changing,
it's going to continue to gothis way is the development of
more micro-communities.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Especially the personal brand on top of the AI,
and then you've got a place youfeel you fit and the product
that fits that need that alignswith your beliefs as well.
That's the power of the firsttwo.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, and if you listen and go, what the hell is
a micro community?
Well, you know, they've alwayssaid the niches.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
How many companies make extension cords?

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, the riches are in the niches, right, but I
think we're moving to it whereit's like niches or niches,
depending on where you'relistening from in the world, but
like it's going to be nicheswithin niches, right?
So you take something thatseems pretty niche and then you
go okay, how do we break thatdown even further?
And that's where we're going tosee a lot of the growth,

(34:36):
because, as much as people arenot unique snowflakes, we all
think we are, and when it comesto where we spend our money, we
are.
And when it comes to like wherewe spend our money, the more
specific and personal andexactly what we want, it feels
like the more we're willing tolike invest, but also the more
we actually connect with thecommunity.

(34:57):
Because it's like they are morelike me, right, and use
parenting as example.
Right, being a better parent isa great example.
Well, a parent of how many kids?
Because there is a bigdifference between a parent of
one kid and two kids, three,four, five.
Once you get to five, is thereany difference between five and
ten?
I don't know, right, but mypoint is budget wise?

(35:18):
yeah, but if I'm emotionally,but if I'm a parent and I find a
group that everybody in therehas two kids like I do that are
very close to age boy and a girland they're talking about their
problems, and it's exactly whatI'm experiencing.
It's way better than being in ageneral parenting group where

(35:42):
there's people whose kids aremaybe teenagers right, because
my kids are four and six, so Idon't really have those problems
yet, nor do I need to knowabout those problems now, right?
So I'm looking for people with-.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
You mean Harley never steals your credit card.
That's so weird.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
So, when Axel's being a certain way, it's coming.
When Axel's being a certain way, I'm looking for people with
parents of four-year-olds whoare going through the same thing
, right.
So I think micro communitiesare going to become, are going
to grow, and I think we're goingto see that's where, like, if
you are pretty broad, even ifyou're niche, if you're pretty

(36:20):
broad, you're going to go deeper.
So, like, for example, in thefitness industry, if you help
gyms make money, well, what kindof gym?
Is it a big box gym?
Is it a private facility?
Is it a studio?
a boot camp and we can break allthese things down and you're
going to see the rise of peoplewho are teaching specifics.

(36:41):
So if there's a kettlebell-onlystudio, you're going to see the
rise of the kettlebell forfemales over the age of 40.
Fitness is already prettybroken down.
Other industries not so much,but we're going to see these
micro communities growing.
We're going to see more andmore people making money with

(37:02):
smaller businesses, but theythemselves will be more
profitable.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
I get overwhelmed by choice.
Even when me and Andy gotmarried, they'd show us like
chargers that go under the plate.
We had to pick the plate andthen it matches the tablecloth.
And then I was, holy crap, Icannot do this.
So I told the weddingcoordinator we hired.
I was like I need max fivechoices and I don't care about
anything.
Just show me five choices thatyou think go together and I will

(37:28):
pick one because I can bedecisive.
But I get overwhelmed withchoice.
But when she says, okay,there's only a couple metal ones
that will hold the platesbetter, there's only a couple
that will match the tablecloth.
There are a couple that arecheaper, rentable or you can
purchase them and then resellthem and actually make money, I
was like, oh, okay, now you'vegiven me choices with knowledge,
right, with more information.
So if we go with the personalbrand, you will make more money

(37:49):
because you've got a connectionwith that person you're selling
to.
If you're doing the weddingchargers that are sustainable,
recyclable and even resellableor you're doing the rental now
you own a rental company to doall those wedding things that we
don't like to choose from.

(38:10):
I think making that personal forthe customer helps with the
overwhelming amount of choicesyou have already, it's
overwhelming to get 92 differentextension cords on Amazon.
I don't care, I want.
And if you say one will saveenergy in your home and one is
made in America and one is, youknow, you only need this and it
will last 10 years versus five,I'm like, okay, now I'm informed

(38:33):
, now I don't have to worryabout the other 59 on Amazon, I
want that one.
I think that's where we'reheaded.
I think it's a wise and goodmove.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, what's interesting, you keep going back
to the extension cords.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
I can't help it.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
But I don't think it's a bad thing because it's
such a, it's just such a blandproduct right.
But like applying thisinformation, like if I am
looking for an extension cordfor my outdoor Christmas lights
right.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah.
And I find a video of someoneshowing me the best extension
cord and accessories for outdoorChristmas lights In the rain or
snow.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
I am more likely to listen to them than the person
who's just showing me the.
Here's the greatest outdoorextension cord.
And then they're like pluggingit into like a leaf blower.
That's why you can use it as asimple profession or Well, it
powers a leaf blower, but willit power my, you know, hundred,
like strings of lights?
I don't know, like.
So then I have a question.
Right, I have a question andbecause it's unanswered, I'm

(39:31):
hesitant.
So I now need to do moreresearch.
So the micro communities thereason they work is because it's
given me the exact answer tothe exact thing that I want to
know.
So I'm complete, I don't needto do more research.
I'm like boom done, boom, moveon.
And so even in that sense andkind of brings me to another
prediction I had later, but Ithink it's worth mentioning now

(39:52):
I think this would be numberfour we can mess up your order.
Yeah, yeah, but it's theeducational content right,
moving away from selling or hardselling and we've seen this
already happening but I thinkwe're going to see more and more
educational content, meaningcontent that sells without
selling.
So very similar to what we saynow with Amazon stores and

(40:13):
TikTok.
It's just people showing whatit does, explaining what it does
, using it Like, even like, fromthe standpoint of like.
I think we're going to see moreYouTube videos sponsored by
companies.
I've seen, like Polaris, payingadventure people to have their
vehicle and like, use it intheir videos right Now.
They're now.
They're instead of, you know,being in their Toyota pickup

(40:33):
going through the mountains,they're in the Pol and it's, but
they're not selling the Polaris, it's just Showing what it's
capable of.
Yeah, it's brand placement.
We've seen that forever, but Ithink it's going to be funded
more to create educationalcontent with brand placement and
I think that that's going to bea big shift as well, especially

(40:55):
with people who are buildingthe personal brand micro
communities, because it's easierto influence.
People want to wear what youwear, they want to buy what you
buy.
They want the watch, the car,it's all very influential.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I know JK.
I don't sell anything butsoftware, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Fun.
But even with software we weretalking earlier right about how
education is key software is theshovel, it's a tool.
but if you don't know whatyou're supposed to do with a
tool, what good is it?
So how do you get people toknow what to do with a tool?
Well, they need a map.
And if you're relying onsomeone else to give them the
map, that person may not berecommending your tool.
So what do you end up doing?

(41:33):
You end up as a softwarecompany, creating the
educational piece so that youbring awareness to the problem.
The solution, the solution isthe product.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
I love that you think that we buy because of a
problem.
No, we do what else?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Let's see so.
Number five let's go with highticket products like courses,
things like that which, in ourworld, we see all the time.
Right, you know, $5,000,$10,000 online courses.
I think we're going to see ahigh ticket, but people are
going to want high touch, sothey're going to want more.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (42:07):
They're going to expect that, if they're
investing more, that they'realso being invested in back, so
that the course creator, theguru, whatever is invested in
their success and helping themreach that success.
And I think that courses thathave a in-person component

(42:30):
whether that's a three-day eventat the end of it, or there's
Q&A know q, a weekly like zoomcalls like there's going to be
more expectation.
If people are giving you alarge amount of money, that and
it doesn't have to be high touchdoesn't mean high time, right

(42:53):
but it means that if a personinvests, they expect to have a
quality product and they expecta person who sold it to them to
be available in some way, shapeor form.
I think that the high ticketindustry was like that, and then
it became super popular to behigh ticket and it moved to

(43:17):
expensive course model.
So you're just paying $10,000for something that used to be
$2,000.
But there's no additional stuffto it, right, and I think
that's done and dusted.
I think people are tired ofspending a lot of money for what
they could have bought in abook, right, and so I think
expectations are going to changeand that's going to be the

(43:38):
people who survive and continueto sell high ticket, it's
because there's a high level ofaccess to them or a high level
of success that you are creatingthrough.
And it might not be you, butyou like personal coaches for

(43:58):
each person that check in.
You know, I went through acourse once and, like, the main
guy taught it in the morning itwas like an hour and then, like,
like they, he had coaches that,like you, two, three hours
later you would have a phonecall with the coach to go over
the call, to ask questions, tomake sure that you then
implemented it before the nextday.
So I think we're going to seemore and more stuff like that

(44:18):
and the expectation is going tobe greater of like, if I'm
giving you, you know, five, 10grand, like, I'm actually
getting a result from it andthat's going to be an
expectation.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
We've seen that a couple of times go really well
and it's it's I think you'reright Probably going to become
more popular.
Because if you've spent twogrand on the course and you can
learn, take notes at home, butif you have any questions, uh,
you just bought the course.
But if you buy consulting,masterminds and stuff like that,
then you get to sit in the roomwith the people that only have
to teach one element of theclass.
Then bring in other teachers toteach you the same or different

(44:49):
things that they are not theexpert on.
Um we did it with with rolandfrazier's, like war room with um
you know, uh, ryan dice andrichard linder.
We had Richard's War Room withRyan Dice and Richard Linder.
We had Richard's running thecompany from the presidential
arena of hiring, firing growthlook at all this stuff.
And then Ryan's doing all themarketing, and then Roland's
looking at the M&A part of it,and so they all have the aspect

(45:10):
of the company that you can askabout and they're all experts in
that one area.
And then the first week wejoined I mean, obviously
Roland's a friend of mine, I canask him anything I want.
But I really appreciated thatthey put me and you in a room
with all three of them all fourof them Like, hey, what do you
need?
That's you just joined.
Great, how can we get you theassistance through people in our
mastermind already?
Or what do you need from us?

(45:30):
We are experts in these areas.
I was like man, that was socool.
We got an hour, hour and a halfjust to sit with them and say
they're like what do you needfrom us?
I was like that was amazing.
And then actually I like tocall him my little brother.
He's my bigger brother but he'syounger.
He does the financialmanagement for Mattson Money and
they're very salesy with theway that Mattson does his events

(45:51):
, but they're very educationalas well.
And then what Josh does as thetier of the mastermind or the
maths and money financial thingis he goes every month.
If you give me any money toinvest, we're going to have a
scheduled call.
We're going to talk about everyitem in that statement that you
have a question about.
So we're teaching you whereyour money's going and why and
what return does that mean.

(46:11):
And we pay them, like a littlemore of a point on the
transactions or whatever.
But they said because we're notjust transacting your money for
you, we're actually teachingyou where it goes, why it's
important and why you shouldn'tjust trust us.
You should learn about ityourself and say are we making
the right moves for you?
Do you have any advice for uson where your money should go?
If you go here, here and hereand it doesn't make the same,

(46:32):
but you believe in this countrymore than this country, maybe
we'll put it here anyway and seewhat it does and talk about it
next month.
So it's a consulting financialmanagement.
I think that is more importantthan giving it, um, you know, to
any bank of america, to here's,you know, 10 grand.
Do it?
Do you have to do it's like,well, every month they're going
to get their fees every month,whether it goes up and down all
the other market.

(46:52):
But if you go with someone,that's more of a consulting.
Same thing.
Thing with insurance.
If you're getting lifeinsurance and stuff, you have
that consulting part of it.
Yeah, you're paying that moneyand you're getting that actual
personal phone call.
You're learning from thatone-on-one which is becoming
more and more important.
Where is your money?
Where is it going?

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well, I think also too, building off what you said,
the reality is, if you look at,we mentioned AI and
personalization.
That's fine for marketing, butonce I buy your product, if it
just feels like AI created theproduct and there's no personal

(47:30):
engagement, I'm going topotentially think wait, what did
I actually just buy?
Because I could have justtalked to chat DTP.
So I think that information andI'll separate information and
education here okay, I thinkinformation for information is
going to be so easily availablethat the separation but

(47:52):
overwhelming overwhelming right,which then comes the education
is.
There's an educator who'sspecifically teaching something.
That then is helpful.
But the personal brand adds tothis, because experience becomes
the separator.
So I'm not paying you now forthe information.

(48:12):
I am because you giving me theinformation, but I'm actually
that's not really what I wantfrom you.
What I actually want from youis your experience, guidance,
because you have answers toquestions that I haven't faced
yet, because you've already beenthere and done that.
And going back to what I saidearlier, I think those without
experience are going to beexposed and they're going to
disappear, because AI hasexposed the ability.

(48:35):
Anybody can create content withno knowledge.
Now you just go to AI and say,hey, imagine you're a social
media expert, tell me what Ishould do for the next 30 days.
Well, how hard would it be?
Imagine I'm a social mediaexpert, tell me what this
company should do for the next30 days and then sell yourself
as a social media expert.
So there's that.
But what happens when it doesn'twork?
If you have no experience, youhave no answer.

(48:57):
Right Now, of course, you goback to chat GTP and say, hey,
this didn't work.
Like, what other ideas do youhave?
But like experience comes in,because let's say you do that
and you get a plan, like anexperienced social media manager
will look at it and be like,nah, it's not going to work,
probably not.
No.
Or like these five things willwork, these 10 things won't
Right.
That's where experience.

(49:18):
So if you invest in my, mycourse and I'm working with you
and you're like, hey, I did thisand this was my result, like
you're expecting me to give youfeedback based on where you need
to go next, Right.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
If I want to learn about lifting, do I buy your
book or do I talk to you?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, Well, you might buy the book first, but then if
you have questions, what do youdo?
Right, but what you'll pay fora book versus what you'd pay to
ask me a question, two totallydifferent things.
So, again, go back.
High ticket, high touch.
I think it's going to be.
I don't think it's going to bean option, I think it's just
going to be what expectation bythe buyer.
And it'll put a lot of peoplewho don't necessarily know their
shit or who don't want to havethat level of interaction.

(49:54):
They'll be forced to lowertheir prices because their
information will just become acommodity.
It will become ready to beavailable because there'll be a
lot of.
The truth is is it doesn't takemuch to become an expert in a
topic.
It takes a little bit of asession, a couple of weeks
learning something, and you knowmost of the most people.
Expertise, really masteryespecially, really becomes in

(50:16):
the practice of the thing right,and I think that that's where
we're going to see a differenceis we're going to stop trusting
people who know the informationbut don't apply the information,
and we're going to start.
We're going to start leaninginto the people who have
mastered it through experience,who can tell you that worked
five years ago.
It won't work today.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Right, yeah, that's why the info gets outdated.
If you're talking about tech,this next one.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I've already seen it happen and I think we're going
to see a bigger push towards it.
I think we're going to go backto quality over quantity.
I think the endless amounts ofcontent creation.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
It gets old.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
It gets old, it's surface level and people want to
go deeper and with most of theshort form video content being
created as short form videocontent, oftentimes there's
nothing to click to go watch therest of the video right it's
fair, I gave you a sandwich andyou couldn't go click and watch

(51:17):
how I made it Right.
So the sandwich was delicious,but I think what we're going to
see is people returning towardsmore long form content, that
then they'll maybe shape theirshort form content around to
push to the long form content.
But I think we're going to seegood quality video coming back
and again the reason is it'sbecome so easy for anybody.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
I mean, my daughter got a got a kid's camera for
Christmas and it shoots videos.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
This morning she showed us the selfie video she
made talking about oh she talkedabout so many different things,
but talking about how Christmasisn't about just gifts, and and
then at the end she's likeshe's like well, thanks for
listening guys Like, and she'slike she says somethingcom.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
She's copying you.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
So I'm like I don't know if you, if it's one of the
cartoon shows she, but like, sheopened, gave content and closed
like, and she's six, does notgo on the internet, does not
have any of these apps, does not?
She doesn't watch TikTok, shedoesn't watch YouTube, she
doesn't do any of that stuff.
And so my point is is, mysix-year-old can turn a camera

(52:23):
around and shoot a selfie video.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
She can't read yet.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
So that's cool.
But you know, I think we'regoing to see it is a value
hierarchy, but I think that ifyou want to make the most amount
of money, you're going to haveto start to professionalize and
become more of a production andactually take the time to edit
and make your videos good, and Ithink we're going to go back to

(52:47):
that.
That doesn't mean that someonecan't do good with just their
camera, just their phone orsomething like that.
Again, quality of informationover quantity of information is
also going to win.
So just because you have aprofessional video, if it's
terrible in terms of value, itdoesn't make a difference.
But I think that we'll seepeople spending more time on

(53:08):
long form again, less time onshort form, and I think that the
long form that people have beenusing who do do short form,
which a lot of times is justlike a presentation from some
conference they're speaking atthey're not going to get away
with that, because nobody wantsto sit for an hour when they're
not a roofer to listen to apresentation for roofers to try
to extract the golden nuggets.

(53:29):
So I think we're going to seesome changes there.
I think we're going to see morelong form content, more quality
content over just quantity.
And I think we've already seenthat with a lot of creators who
were talking about every topicunder the sun and they were
getting big reach but theyweren't getting monetization off
of that.
They started focusing in on themessaging to the market and

(53:50):
their reach went down, but theirmonetization went up because
now they're getting the rightpeople and I think we're seeing
a return to that and I thinkthat the value of that becomes
greater because there is so muchshort form content out there.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
It's overwhelming.
It's when you get overwhelmingbits of mail, coupons, your
penny saver, whatever you justthrow it out.
You're like it's too much totry to figure out what I need,
why coupon, where to go when bynoon Thursday, no time is money.
The more we realize that, themore that the quality,
personalization, the niche thatyou want and giving the quality
content so people will buyquality item from you, respect

(54:24):
it like it, continue to buy fromyou, is where it's going to be
important because we areoverwhelmed.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
And also people will like.
Once they like you, they wantto go deeper with you.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
So that's what she said.
Couldn't help it.
I couldn't help it, I can helpit.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
I thought we were going to get through the whole
year without one of those.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
I'm still here.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Um, no, but the the like.
If I, if I see an Instagramshort of someone like, I don't
necessarily want to keepwatching like little shorts,
like I want to go deeper in thecontent and if they don't have
that like long form content outthere for me to consume, like
I'm a lot of times, I'm notfollowing people for their short
form content.

(55:03):
It gets my attention, it gets alike, but in terms of like me
just seeing like their littlelike 30 second idea videos, it
doesn't provide enough value forme to then like watch those
over and over.
And you know, especially whenthey're dumping 20 a day, it's
like.
You know I'm missing most of theproduct is one thing it's not
for that, but if you don't havethat process, if you don't have

(55:24):
that, how do you take someonewho gets interested and move
them along?
I think we're going to lose it.
So I think long form contentwill become.
Instead of people thinkingabout what short form to create,
they'll create their long formand then say what can we create
that promotes that in short form?

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Learn more click here .

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, exactly All right.
Next one I think we're atnumber seven, Favorite number
Hybrid business model.
So I think that and we've beensaying this forever, but I think
we're going to see more offlinebusinesses and actually online
businesses, adding offline oronline component.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (56:00):
So, for example, if I join a gym, the gyms can also
have a membership site that Iget access to that has at-home
workouts for the days I can'tget to the gym.
So now, instead of Pelotonbeing a competitor, I've just
eliminated them because theydon't have a gym.
They don't have a place someonecan go train, but I'd have a
gym and I have an app or awebsite, whatever you want to

(56:22):
have.
But I think we're going to seea lot of these.
And then, vice versa, we'regoing to see online businesses
that have strictly been onlinebefore start to create physical
locations or events that peoplecan come to.
So if you're an online trainerand um and you like um, then you
don't have a gym.
Maybe you open a gym If you'rean online, if you're online like

(56:44):
yoga instructor that doesn'thave a yoga studio, maybe you
have a yoga retreat that you run.
So I think we're going to seeand again it goes back to people
wanting more connection.
It goes back to um wanting acommunity to be a part of.
I think that there's onlinecommunities that people would
happily meet up and oftentimesonline communities will do

(57:05):
meetups in cities independently.
Oh, I think it's adorable.
So I think we're going to seemore hybrid engagement where
they're not thinking, oh, we'rean offline business like a
chiropractor, so they just comeand they get adjusted, and then
we'll maybe have an onlinecomponent where I'm selling like
a low back solution, no, no, no.
I'm talking about the mergingof the two so that we are

(57:28):
engaged with our audience beyondthe time they're actually with
us, whether it's a coaching callon Zoom or a personal training
session in person.
How do we then go for the other23 hours?
And I think that's where eachside is going to be leveraging
the other to create theseopportunities to expand their
relationship with the individual.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Oh, that opens up a whole wealth of questions you
probably don't want.
I think that's reallyinteresting.
There's some careers that don'toffer that online and in-person
stuff as much, but I think I amseeing it.
So we've got this new um.
Dr Hartnett decided she's theCEO of this uh pop-up shop and

(58:09):
she's got doctors.
If you want an extra day whereyou're not at work, you can go
and you can get paid to be therefor the day and you're a doctor
on site for the two officesthey have, or you can do the
Zoom call or whatever.
But they spend so much.
They said the quality of thatis that you spend 30 minutes
with the doctor and the notesthey take are extensive, and
then when you come back, do youwant to see the same doctor?

(58:30):
Or, if the doctor's not in, wehave another one that will read
all your notes before you comein and give you that handheld
service instead of just going toyour neighborhood hospital.
Unfortunately, always, always,are going to need a plethora of
doctors, but the more and it'scost me the same.
So my insurance will pay for myvisit to the Health Net and
then I will talk to the doctorfor 30 minutes and she'll be
like what else do you need helpwith?

(58:50):
Like, what else are you herefor?
I understand that you need this, this and this, but how are you
?
In these areas?
I'm like man thatpersonalization stuff even when
it costs me nothing extra ishuge.
I always go back to them and Idon't see the same doctors
because they're not alwaysavailable, but the quality of
the work that they're giving ispart of that brand and it's that
personal care.
We'll call you, we'll make sureyour prescriptions are in.

(59:12):
We'll ask you how you'refeeling after We've got
follow-up emails.
It's crazy how they made thisinto a niche business that's
personalized and it's healthcare.
I think we should go in everyarea.
We can that level.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Yeah, I mean, think about it.
You're deathly sick.
You got a cough.
You can't stop your nose fromrunning.
You feel like you're going tothrow up.
The last thing you want to dois drive to the doctor's office
or urgent care whatever, and sitthere for two hours waiting for
a doctor and then, when youfinally get taken back by the
nurse, you're now sitting in aroom for another 30 minutes.
The doctor comes in for threeminutes, says yes, you're sick,

(59:46):
here's your prescription, andthen you've got to drive your.
If you had to drive yourself,you've got to drive yourself all
the way home.
But you stop by the pharmacy topick up your subscription.
Then you the pharmacy to pickup your subscription then you go
home.
Okay, there's going to be timeswe need to go to the doctor
right when you're pregnant.
You got to go get checked, liketo make sure everything's
moving along.
They got to put the ultrasoundon you.

(01:00:06):
So you're going to the doctors,right, but when you're sick and
the last thing you want to do isget, out of the car like it'd
be a lot easier just to fire upa Zoom call on the phone and
have a conversation with thedoctor for the 30 minutes that
you actually spend with thedoctor, no other time from your
side, so you don't have to leaveyour bed.
Then this prescription'sordered, it's at the pharmacy

(01:00:26):
and, of course, now you can getit delivered.
So, without leaving your house,you've got everything you need.
That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
But I didn't want the doctor in demand.
It was five minutes.
Yeah, like five minutes.
Tell me symptoms, okay, I'llwrite your prescription.
I'm like, well, okay, first ofall, I didn't have the flu.
I didn't get tested.
The flu pill they told me totake didn't help at all.
It was actually covid.
But they're like, just thiszoom, five minutes.
Oh, okay, you've got thesesymptoms.
Yeah, you probably got a flu.
I'll give you this prescription.
I'm like, well, I don't know,try harder, care more.

(01:00:54):
So I liked that this, thisother, um other healthcare thing
, was doing the 30 minutes.
Like, well, how else are youfeeling?
Are you cool with this?
What do you think of this?
There's these side effects, butwe could try these or these or
these.
It was more in depth.
I think we have to.
That will succeed.
Greater than the on-demanddoctor for five minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yeah, and especially if it's an on-demand doctor that
you never can go see in person.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Right or again.
You never see a doctor again.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Or you never have that conversation with that same
person, because familiaritycreates a lot of trust, right,
and especially when it comes todoctors, we trust them a lot on
a lot of things that we probablyshouldn't trust them on,
because doctors are like everyindustry.
You've got the doctors thatstay on top of everything, and
then you've got the doctors whogot their degree 20 years ago
and have read one journal, maybe, if they're lucky, whatever
they had to do to keep theirlife so, anyway, I think we're

(01:01:40):
going to see a lot more hybridbusinesses um very interesting
next one, uh, number eight, ummembership model.
I think we're going to see alot of products, courses,
services move from fees like youan upfront $200, $1,000, $5,000
, to a membership model wherethe company's making recurring

(01:02:05):
revenue.
It's less to you on a monthlybasis, more to you lifetime
value.
So it's better for the companyin that sense too.
But I think that people aregetting very used to
subscriptions.
They are preferringsubscriptions because it's an
easy way to manage theirfinances and also, with a
subscription there's not allthis pressure to consume

(01:02:29):
everything immediately, right.
And the subscription model alsoallows you to build a community
, because a lot of times ifyou're selling a product or
something like that, it might bea one-time buyer, but if I'm
selling a subscription or amembership, there's usually more
.
That goes with it, benefits,perks, et cetera, et cetera.

(01:02:51):
And I mean you've seen thiswith a lot of businesses where
you can basically do this.
Or if you join the club or thewhatever you get all these peaks
VIP and it's usually worth it.
Like you look at it and you go,oh, it's not that expensive and
it's worth it.
So I think we're going to see alot more um things roll out in

(01:03:13):
that, like you know, monthlypayment model versus upfront
fees and stuff like that if theyfollow the other things that we
predicted for thepersonalization, the micro niche
, and then the quality overquantity.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
If they follow that and they do the reoccurring
income, the monthly subscriptionthing I think that's a great
thing.
That's what we're seeing withall of the netflix, hbo, disney,
whatever.
They have to have more content,they have to have good content
or you're going to cancel.
Um, that's the epitome of therevenue model that I can pull
that people will just cancelwhenever it's not going well and
then buy it right back againwhen the show they want to see
is there.
Um, but I don't.

(01:03:44):
I don't love it becauseeverything is going to cost you
over and over and over againeverything.
But it makes a little moresense because if you do it right
, then everything that you'rebudgeting for, that you've
gotten everything needed you.
You don't need to go anywhereelse.
It's the revenue model, themembership model, every month
when you're getting what youneed from that.
If it's a gym, you've got youronline classes, so your I moved
away or I can't get to the gymis not an excuse to cancel.

(01:04:05):
They've got your nutritionalplatform.
We put in what you eat andit'll show you where your
calories are, whatever.
If they've got those otherthings involved, you don't need
to look at this price as toomuch, because you do still need
those workouts, that nutritionalaccountability, all that stuff.
So I think, yeah.
Unfortunately, the membershipmodel is coming for all of us in
different ways.
They're even saying furniturenow is rented, it's not owned.

(01:04:26):
I'm like, hmm, that might begood, because your fridge breaks
every four years now instead ofevery 30.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
I mean, the car industry has really pushed for
this, towards their lease modeltoo, like the sticker prices you
see on cars.
Now you know $499.
And you think to yourself andthen you go out and it says
lease for $499.
You know, if you want topurchase it, it's going to be
like $999 a month and so Unlessyou love it.
Yeah, and I think that peoplewho have to purchase based on

(01:04:54):
price, right, they have to bemore mindful of what they're
buying, what they're spending,that they know they're going to
like.
You know, the whole leasing isfleecing.
That's the saying, right, andthe reason is is because you
don't own the asset.
It's depreciating Every twoyears you get the new one, so

(01:05:14):
you never pay off the car, right?
The idea of purchasing is I buythe car After 72 months, it's
mine, right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
And then it doesn't work anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Well, I mean, you've got a couple years maybe five,
six years with a vehicle, maybe,but like yes, you're going to
start paying for repairs andyou're going to probably have
had to change the tires quite afew times, which is a big
investment.
So like, yeah, but very similarto a house.
But the idea is that you knowyou have this asset, but what
people are realizing when youuse the car is okay, yeah, okay

(01:05:48):
with the lease, like I don't getto own the vehicle, so I'm
going to forever have a payment.
But they're like, but I get anew vehicle every two years.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Okay, that drives me nuts and I love it and hate it.
I've had a couple cars that Ipurchased and by the time I was
done paying them off, the carstarted breaking.
And then I have a brand newExpedition.
I never bought a brand new car.
I bought a brand new Expedition, Extended, because I've got the
five kids, I've got the nannyand her three kids, so I've got
to but someone somewhere.
But things started breaking,like the door sensor, the

(01:06:18):
starter, and it's less thanthree years old.
How the heck do I drive thatmuch that those little things
are breaking?
I think that's why the leasemodel is starting to make some
sense.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Well, things aren't made to last.
I want them to last, but we nolonger-.
Where's our?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
station wagon.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
We no longer remember how long things lasted for.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
They put trees on a station wagon and it lasted
forever.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
When you buy a couch, you know.
Like I grew up and I don't, Ithink my parents changed the
couch once in like 16 years.
I could be wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
No, you're probably right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
But I don't remember having a new couch very often at
all.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
They're expensive.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
But now it's like when you talk to people in that
industry, they expect people tobuy a couch every two to three
years.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Well, I have to.
I've got the five kids.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
So if you go in and you look and it's a $5,000 couch
which people are probably likewhoa, if you haven't looked at
couches recently, $5,000 couchis not some fancy thing, it's a
very normal couch, right.
So with that in mind, the pointI'm making here is if you buy
it and you have three yearspayments, after those three

(01:07:24):
years you're probably buyinganother one anyway, so you never
actually get out of thepayments.
And so it's not like a homethat actually goes up in value,
where you might be out of profitor at least break even or at
least use it it to uh, toleverage into the next bigger
home.
Um, like with a vehicle, you'reusually going to lose money,
unless it's a super car thatholds its value, and that's a
whole different conversation.

(01:07:44):
But like the reality is is likeI think people are getting to
the point where they don'tnecessarily want to own stuff
because they just know it's notgoing to last.
So what's the point?
And I think that, like, withautonomous cars coming, this is
probably not next year becauseof regulations, but you know,
there's, there's sam, I believe.
San francisco and austin rightnow have driverless ubers.

(01:08:05):
They've been approved to betested in those cities, so we
actually have driverless ubersright now.
There's going to come a timewhere you don't even like it's
not a lease, like you just pay afee and like you book the time
you need the car, it'll pick youup, drop you off at work and
then go do its next job.
So there'll come a point where,even with the subscription, we

(01:08:28):
don't actually there's nothingwe own, right, and that's kind
of the way things are going.
There will always be people whoprofit because I'll be the guy
who owns all the driverless cars, right, or this business or
that business.
But I think what we're seeinglike and take like a book, for
example.
Like you write a book, it's amoment in time, right, and in

(01:08:49):
five years it could be relevantif it's timeless information, or
it could be completelyirrelevant because everything's
changed, right.
So like, for example, if you'rewriting a book about investing
right now, right, you've gotcrypto, you've got stock market,
you've got all these thingsright.
But like what if we don't know?
But like what if something likecrypto, a new thing is born in

(01:09:11):
the next two, three years?
Like your book now is missingsomething.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
How long ago was it tough to wear a plastic bag If
you wrote a book?

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
20 years ago.
There's nothing about crypto init, right?
So that's getting into watersof information.
I'm not really up to date on ornot even up to date.
I'm not very knowledgeable onthat stuff.
I pay other people, basically,so I don't have to learn this
stuff.
But my point is, what I'mmaking is is your book could be
out of date in five years, right?
So now, of course, you could doan updated version, et cetera.

(01:09:38):
But what if people neveractually bought the book?
Like what if they paid you$4.99 a month and you've got the
foundations of the book?
But it's constantly beingupdated, constantly adding new
information, relevantinformation based on headlines.
So, and that's what we see withlike social media, instagram's
added their little subscriptionmodel, media, instagram's added
their little subscription model,youtube's added their little

(01:10:00):
subscription model, and sopeople are charging 499 990 a
month for exclusive content.
But like, in reality, like it'sbecause people realize things
are always changing, there'salways new stuff and they don't
want to be left behind.
So I think the subscriptionmodels are going to continue to
grow.
I think we to see a lot.
We have it in our industriesthat we're involved in already.

(01:10:20):
I think we'll see more.
I think mainstream.
We're going to see more andmore stuff moving towards
subscription model.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
I don't love it, but I do love it.
I get it, it's important.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Number nine.
This one's a quick one, andthen we'll move on to number 10.
Number nine for me is marketingtransparency.
I think we're moving to an agewhere rules and regulations are
going to come down a lot harderon charlatans, scammers, people
who inflate the truth, and Idon't know necessarily if it

(01:10:54):
will be the government that goesafter individuals or if the
governments require advertisingplatforms, um, or even like
youtube, like well, I guessyoutube is an advertising
platform, depending on how youlook at it, but platforms that
people can post content, um,where there's going like, of

(01:11:16):
course, there's freedom ofspeech, and then there's going
like, of course there's freedomof speech, and then there's
lying right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
And I can't tell you how many ads I see of people
basically saying let me show youhow to make seven figures.
And now, not that millionairesare as rare as people think
right, but the truth is is thatI guarantee, for every 10 ads I
see, one of those may haveactually made the money they're

(01:11:42):
claiming right or have actuallygotten results for somebody
where they can make that claimright.
And I think that what we'regoing to see is the government
cracking down on platforms likeFacebook, youtube, google,
because they do have the dataand the intelligence and they're

(01:12:03):
going to require thoseplatforms to fact check what is
being advertised, because falseadvertising is illegal.
And I had a friend who losteverything, and I don't even
think he had false advertising.
He just used a study that wasdone overseas, which you cannot
do, to make an acclaim inAmerica.
And so, because it was anAmerican study funded by his
company, it was an overseasstudy with, like, the government

(01:12:25):
can't check that right, there'sno way to go down the rabbit
hole and make sure this is alegit study.
He got busted for falseadvertising and literally lost
two companies, all the realestate he owned, everything.
They took everything from himBecause he did try to fight it,
so there's like he could havedone better.
But my point is is that, like,false advertising is nothing to
mess around with who's at thecure for cancer, and there's a

(01:12:47):
lot more Bernie Madoffs outthere than people realize and I
think that that is going to becoming to an end, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
But then you've got people that have a differing
opinion on some studies thatthey've read about medical stuff
and they post it and think it'staken down because someone
doesn't agree with it, andthey've got more money to take
it down.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
Yeah that I don't agree with the caveat.
Yeah, I mean, it's different,right, when you're telling
someone like, oh, I'm going toshow you how to make seven
figures, that's a very specificclaim versus saying, like you
know, I disagree that masksactually protect you, but
there's no line.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
So the government says that we're going to fact
check and we're going to shutyou down.
Take everything that you'vemade from this false advertising
, or where's the line?

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Well, different organizations monitor different
things.
But you're right, there has tobe clear establishments.
But I think that you know, Idon't think you should be able
to make any claim unless youactually have some form or thing
to back it up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
I was going to say so .
If you follow the model we justlaid out, right, if you've got
the personalization, you've gotthe AI telling you how to make
the video, that makes sense.
I saw this thing on Instagramthis morning.
It's like do you have a cold orfever?
Tie a bag of cut up onions toyour feet with plastic bags.
Someone's like plastic, oh, no,um, and then you'll be over
your sickness in the day.
And it was like all thesecomments yeah, that's what I did

(01:14:04):
.
Yeah, that's what I did.
It's just an onion attached toyour foot when you're sleeping.
It was the weirdest thing ever.
But if you have, somebody says,no, that's not going to work.
You have to get the, the flownays from this company, this
brand, whatever to get rid ofyour flu.
And they said, well, no,because look here I'm sniffling
and I've got have the videoputting on the next day.
I'm clear.
So you actually have done it.
They can't touch your use,right, if you can prove you did

(01:14:26):
it.
I guess to that point thatmakes sense we are moving.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
This is wasn't on my sheet, but I think I think
you're gonna have some opinionson it too.
Maybe, I think people.
When I say that things aregoing to get regulated more, I'm
specifically talking aboutpeople who are purposely lying.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
Right Like scamming.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
I think though.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Spamming and scamming no good.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Government, news organizations, pharmacy big food
all of those people that try tosquash truth because they want
to run a different narrative interms of, like you said, don't
use an onion, go buy somefucking pharmacy product, right?
I think people I think thosecompanies are going to be in for

(01:15:17):
a rude awakening.
I saw a little clip.
I can't even remember what itwas, but he quoted something and
the guy he's a street interviewand the guy says where do you
get that information from?
Like who says that?
And he's like New York Times,cnn.
He goes oh so the false media.
Like we don't believe that shit.
Like we don't go to thosesources anymore for our

(01:15:40):
information.
Like they're not trusted.
And I think that that's wherewe'll go along with the
marketing transparency.
I think like things that workthat tries to get squished
because, like, for example, Iuse mushrooms right, magic

(01:16:01):
mushrooms grow in the groundright Now you can create a
synthetic version and whatever.
But like in reality, mushroomsjust grow in the ground and
people go foraging for them andcrack them.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
I don't know which ones to pick.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
No, but people who do do right and they do this Now
for PTSDd, for things like that.
There there's been groups whoare doing this and it is shown
that that will cure your ptsdwith couple doses.
Boom, good to go.
There's other psychedelics thatthat cure issues right proven

(01:16:35):
and people are having to go toother countries to do this stuff
.
Now that information has beenkept and been buried and the
whole banning of psychedelicswas a movement in itself.
Push against it because peoplewere getting too awakened.
But we can no longer, becauseof internet, because of how fast

(01:16:55):
information can spread, we canno longer create misinformation
that doesn't eventually getexposed in a record amount of
time.
So the big CVID stuff and I saythat so we don't get censored
at this point but a lot of stuffthat was said and you were

(01:17:18):
basically called like you wereanti-human and like a huge risk
to, like a huge risk to the, tothe world, because you didn't do
this or you didn't do that oryou thought about this.
All of a sudden here we are noteven five years out and all of
that stuff is being exposed andthe people who are, who said
certain things, have beenquestioned on whether they said

(01:17:40):
that and they're like I neversaid that.
And then the clip of themsaying that is shown by its site
.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Don't pull Trump this early.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
So my point is is that, like I think that I guess
this could morph into oneprediction I think truth is
going to prevail and I thinkwe're going to see things in
place to, in our industryspecific with marketing, to make
sure that the truth is comingout and being shared and there's
not, like you know, this baitand switch and click baity and

(01:18:13):
like lies.
But I also think, in general,we're going to see a huge shift
where, like, truth prevails and,you know, people aren't going
to be able to say certain thingsbecause they're on CNN or Fox
or one of these channels, andother people just take say
certain things because they'reon CNN or Fox or one of these
channels, and other people justtake it as word because they're
seen as an authority.
I think those days have gone.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Well, I've got two things that are problems there.
If the government's going tocrack down on misinformation,
then why are they allowed to ownand trade stocks as it is?
So I don't trust them either.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
I think that might end.
I really hope it does, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
If you're a public servant, how dare you try to
make money off the rules thatyou're creating to benefit your
products?

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
You see, there's a Pelosi fund now, so you're not
like the S&P 500.
So someone's created an S&P 500type fund group, grouping of
stocks, and it's all stuff thatPelosi's buying and selling.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Yeah, but it's after, so it's already bought 15 days
later yeah, that Pelosi's buyingand selling.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Yeah, but it's after, so it's already caught.
15 days later yeah, but it'sstill performing better than any
other grouping that exists inthe stock, despite the 14-day
delay of public knowledge.
How crazy is that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
I can't, I can't, even so.
You've got the governmentcontrolling things that they
actually control for their ownfinancial benefit, which is a
problem as it is.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
Yeah, well, I'm not going to say too much.
We'll get this episode to getblacklisted, but I actually
wouldn't mind that.
We give a lot of money away toother countries, that somehow
works its way back to thecompanies that our government
are invested in.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
The other problem with that on the yeah right.
I know let's all just trade itround and round we go.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
It seems like money laundering to me, but I don't
know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
No, it's trading money for favors et cetera, not
bribe, not extortion, that's whyHawaii and North Carolina are
still disasters.
They're awesome places to notplay Because there's no kickback
from those places, nope.
And then the other thing, though, is you have these laws that
are if you violate yourfiduciary duty.
So if you say something that'sthe truth about your product and
it does lower your income, youcan be sued by the other owners

(01:20:01):
of your company.
So you're supposed to hide thetruth because it doesn't benefit
your wallet.
I don't understand that and Idon't agree with it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:08):
I think that we'll see this play out on a large
scale with a certain Elon Muskand his board.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
Well, OK, so we had the whole thing.
I think we're going to witnessthis over the next four years.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Like that's just my opinion With the cancel thing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Like somebody does something wrong we all do
something wrong but then it's ona billboard in New York City so
you can't hide it and you'retotally canceled.
Everyone hates you.
Not that they've ever doneanything wrong themselves, right
, they never have, obviously.
But then you go with.
Why didn't we just say this iswhat this person is doing?
Like this person that isselling all the best cars and
says they're the best modelsever, only owns horses, right?

(01:20:43):
So now we've got it out thereand this person is now on a
billboard in New York cityriding a horse.
Doesn't own any car, not one atall.
Now we've let the nation knowthe truth and they are going to
stop buying that person's cars.
So at least the cancel culturedoesn't have to be work.
Canceling them F that guy.
We're not giving them any money.
It could with your own abilityto have to resonate with your
audience and where you put yourmoney.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Yeah, and I think that's what we're really
witnessing as a culture, beyondmarketing, sales, business is.
What we're witnessing is thelies, manipulation, the ability

(01:21:29):
to fool people, control peoplein a mass way.
What we're seeing is thatbreakdown and, unfortunately,
well not, depending on how youlook at it, but with the
pandemic we saw how quicklypeople were controlled.
But the problem with that is isbecause it was all done under
lies and it was and here's thething right, instead of saying
all it takes is hey, we're goingto put a six foot rule in place
, we don't have the research.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
We don't know if this is actually.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
We don't know how well this is going to help.
We think, based on ourexperience and knowledge, that
this is a safe distance and itwill help curve the spread, and
so we are putting this in placeand we want and hope that you
will support it, because wecannot beat this without
everybody.
Instead of being honest,transparent and just saying,

(01:22:19):
look, we don't know everything,but we think if you wear a mask,
if you distance six feet, ifyou go out as little as possible
, avoid gatherings, we thinkthis is going to make a big
impact, right Versus, if we justignore it, it's going to be bad
, and we know it's going to bebad because it's already heading
that direction.
It's only going to get worse.
So here's what we think we needto do.
They made statements of fact,right, and they basically said

(01:22:42):
if you don't do this, you arebasically a murderer to other
people.
That's the tonality they used.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
I didn't love that part.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
And so here we come now.
If there was a pandemic nextweek now, a lot of people would
still listen, because I stillsee people driving in their car
with masks.
That's a tricky one, andthere's still people who are so
in fear that, even though thetruth has come out, they believe
what they were told first,which is actually a very
marketing 101.
People believe the first thingthey hear about something, so

(01:23:15):
you can tell someone a false lieif they've never heard anything
about it before.
It's very difficult for them tochange their mind right, and
that's what we're seeing ispeople who were like that was
what they were told, so theybelieve it.
And when the evidence come out,they still go well, it might
not completely, but it does dosomething.
And it's like well, actually itsays it does nothing.
And they're like, well, no, itdoesn't do nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
If I yell in your face and I yell at you from
across the parking lot, you'renot going to get my germs.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
Maybe, maybe it depends on the direction of the
wind.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Well, if there's a fan behind me blowing the wind
that way maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
But what I'm skitting at is, if there is a pandemic
next week, there's going to beway less people that actually
believe it, pay attention to it,follow the guidelines.
Why?
Because last time they did andit all came out that it wasn't
true and it came out too fast,right?
So they've wanted to bury theseresults for 100 years or
whatever it was in terms of,like, the research and
everything that went into this,and class action lawsuits are

(01:24:09):
going to happen.
You know those records aregoing to be overturned like it
becomes harder to sell the samething as the guys selling cars
on a horse.
The guys that are saying stayhome didn't stay home, had
private parties and all gotcaught, which you know, whatever
and so this stuff's just beingexposed at a rapid pace, quicker
and quicker, and so I justbelieve that, at the end of the
day, that the the transparency,but it's almost forced because

(01:24:32):
people demand it.
You know, like, like it.
It's like this move to like buyamerican, like it doesn't count
if you import something andstamp it with made in america,
because you put, you put thedesign on the t-shirt that is
what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
All right, when you look at the t-shirt, it says
made america.
It's got the american flag onthe tag and you look at it from
china.
I'm like wait a minute yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
So like those things are just gonna like, and it
doesn't mean people aren't gonnabuy the product, but like you
can't say one thing and it notbe true, and I think that
that's's all that we're gettingat is we're getting to a point
where people are tired of seeingthe lies.
They're more aware than everthat they're being lied to.
I mean, if you got a textmessage and it said something oh

(01:25:13):
, your UPS package is fordelivery and that the phone
number is plus 66, so it's noteven an American phone number.
Who is believing that today?
Because we've been gettingthose text messages for like
four or five years now Me andRicky got one an hour apart.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Yeah, same one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
I'm sure.
We all owe fast track, likeolder people, people who aren't
paying attention, like they getsome people.
That's why it's still happening.
But the amount of people theygot when they first started
versus the amount of people theyget now, radically different,
because we just have all becomeexposed to it.

(01:25:50):
We've talked about it, we'veshared it.
Like we all know, differentpeople have been scammed, but
like, do they get scammed asecond time by the same thing?
Well, no, not once they'reaware of it.
And so the Internet's new inour life.
Right, it's 24 years, 25 yearsold.
You know most people, theyhaven't had it that long because

(01:26:10):
even though it came out, itwasn't like everybody had access
to it, it wasn't even like anenjoyable experience.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
You'd sit there and your phone was down.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
You'd just sit there and then your dad would pick up
the phone and it would dropbecause he needed to make a
phone call.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
You're like dad and it would drop because he needed
to make a phone call.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
You're like dad, my Tamagotchi chat is over.
Yeah, so AOL just random people, no idea who they are.
But the whole point of that isjust, I think that we're moving
towards this transparency inmarketing, transparency in
advertising, transparency inresults.
It's like I think and this isthe mistake we're in a very make
money online biz op like world.

(01:26:46):
We see a lot of this stuff andI think the problem is is that
when you know let's go back whenI first got in it, like you
would see a lot of things likehow to make ten thousand dollars
a month, and that's still thedesire of a lot of people is
like, okay, I'd love to get toten thousand a month, like for
some people if made 5,000 amonth to completely replace
their income, you know.

(01:27:07):
But as the successful onlinemarketers became more successful
and went from 10,000 a month toa hundred thousand a month, to
a million a month or more, um,the lower end, newer marketers
came in and instead of beinglike, oh, I'm going to show you
how to make 10 000 a month, theysee the a-list marketers

(01:27:30):
advertising their, theireight-figure blueprint and they
go well, I'll have aseven-figure blueprint, you know
, and it's it's like well, I'velearned this information from a
millionaire, so it must be right.
And it's like you know, it'sjust, it's just the the way, the
way it is Nothing you can't do.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
You teach, but you've actually done it.
That's why when you teach, itmakes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
The biggest threat of AI is that we're feeding it
information.
So, like how does AI determinefalse and real information?
It doesn't, unless a humantrains what's?
So the whole idea oftransparency, I think is also
going to be regulated at a highlevel, think is also going to be
regulated at a high levelbecause, as ai develops, what we
don't want is the ability forpeople to falsify information

(01:28:09):
and like, essentially, if youlooked at it, like a bad apple,
seed right, like you got, yougot this system you've created,
that's curating information andof truth, and like sharing it
out, and then all a sudden,someone's able to infiltrate it
with this lie.
It ruins the whole thing, right?
So I think, because of the waytechnology and AI is developing,

(01:28:31):
because of the wayaccountability and we live in a
country where lawyers look foropportunity, right I think we're
going to see all of this stuff.
We're starting to essentiallysee the era of the internet move
into a more mature stage and,of course, that's going to come

(01:28:51):
with checks and balances, likeany civilization.
You know when a civilization isnew versus 100 years.
I mean, look at America, wherewe are from where we started, to
where, like you know, thecountry was founded to where it
is now.
I mean, it's night and day.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
You can't regulate as fast as we grow.
They haven't regulated cryptolike they will or should or
shouldn't.
They haven't regulated.
They just said nobody under 14can ride an e-bike in San Diego.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
New law this year E-bike.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Because e-bikes are a problem and kids are dying
because they're not trained toride a bike.
I think they probably shouldhave installed a bike promo,
like a bike riding course, thatkids, when they take it, then
understand the rules of the roadand they can ride the bike and
they've got their permit for thebike, whatever.
But that's probably too muchmoney.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
My son got to eat like an electric motorcycle for
Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
Oh no, my son has an e-bike and he rides it to school
himself every day.
I don't have to get up and takethem.
It's awesome.
So they're developing laws aswe go.
But the AI.
I am so sick of seeing AIvideos that don't mean anything.
I'm sick of it.
So if they say, hey, if it's AI, a video, you have to say that
on the video.
I wish that was the rule.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
Well, I think that we'll see more regulation, and
we talked about this on aprevious episode, but the
reality is that I don't know howmuch the government themselves
have embraced AI, and so they'veput it in the hands of the
developers and A lot of them aretoo old.

(01:30:15):
I think that the issue is theydon't understand fully what
could happen, and it doesn'ttake much for someone to take it
the wrong way or, like, do thewrong thing.
So you know, can we prevent it?
I don't really know, but, likeother countries have better
regulation than we do, yeah, um,in terms of what it's allowed

(01:30:37):
to do, what it's not allowed todo, you know, and I think that,
just like you said, like we arepretty much reactive over here
versus proactive, and I thinkwe're moving into a very
reactive phase with all of thisstuff.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
But if you're a proactive marketer and
understanding where the nation'scoming from and what they're
looking for, and you're goingabove and beyond in those little
areas we already talked about,that's going to be success.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Yeah, exactly.
All right, let's get to thelast one, you have another one.
Yeah, exactly.
All right, let's get to thelast one, you have another one.
Number 10.
Okay, left the best to last.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
I thought we messed around with all your numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
Okay, Now I think we're going to see gamification
become like a staple.
Of course, creators and youknow, like info, education,
knowledge-based business.

Speaker 2 (01:31:24):
I want that so bad.
I always drive and I use Wazeand it's on my Google so you can
go to Google Maps to get thesame stuff.
But this one gives you acharacter.
Mine is a Ghostbusters car.
Right now, you can have thevoice, be Queen Elizabeth,
whatever telling you to turnright, right here.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
That's pretty good.
It's so good.
That's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
Thank you, god.
It's so good, that's prettygood.
Thank you, god.
Rest your soul, but I love it.
And then I get points.
I'm a king wazer and I've evenhad, like I'm talking to someone
else that uses Waze too and I'mlike, well, what's your score?
Like, well, I have more awardsthan you.
I'm like my score is higher.

(01:32:01):
It's just a competing makes itfun.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
So if you have a driving app, dude.
I don't have that relationshipwith Google Maps.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
I have to make sure you use Waze.
It's just that I'm going tobeat you on score, but like it's
fun, right, it gives you that.
Gamifying is fun, competitionis fun, working with each other
and being I mean my littlebrother swimming, running faster
chess games, putting the maptogether faster on this little
stupid wooden puzzle.

(01:32:26):
It's fun.
And so you gamify things inyour business.
You gamify things when you'redone reading the Kindle books
which chapter you get?
The star you get.
The pages are now blue or pink,whatever you choose.
Like you make it more modified.
It's so cool and it keeps yourcustomers happier and they stay
with you longer.
I think that I don't endorseways, but I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:44):
In an ideal world, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
Bold statement.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
Like, if you have something you sell somebody,
your assumption is they're goingto consume it, they're going to
use it, yeah Right, but we knowthat a lot of people buy and
then, for whatever reason, theydon't do anything with it.
And so if your goal is to.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
First of all, I joined a gym and the weight loss
already happened.
Just did.

Speaker 1 (01:33:15):
If your goal is just to sell and make money, that's
great, but we're moving into aworld where anybody can sell and
anybody can make money.
There's no barrier to entry.
Well, technically, the barrierto entry is an internet
connection and a phone right.
So there's people who don'thave that, so we still have an

(01:33:37):
advantage In the world.
There's people without phonesor internet still.

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
I don't know.
I've been to the Bahama slumsin Mexico, where there's no
house, it's a box.
They still have a cell phone,there is still a tribe that's on
who still kill people.
So there is people.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
They probably are happy.
But so, anyway, thegamification piece.
If you're, if you're actuallywanting to help people and get
results, you have to alsounderstand where we are as a
culture, the people's attentionspan, the amount of distractions
people have, et cetera, etcetera.
So the question you got to askyourself, because there's no
right answer, like, if youcreate something of value and

(01:34:12):
people choose not to consume it,that's on them.
You technically did your part.
But if you're truly invested inactually helping people, you'll
start to think beyond what theyshould do and start to think
about how do you get them toactually perform those behaviors
.
And that's where, if you're acoach, consultant or an expert
who wants to build a long-termrelationship, not a one-time

(01:34:34):
transactional relationship,that's where you have to ask
yourself is there more I can doto help my consumer?
It used to be if you made video, if you understood learning
styles, you would give atranscript, you would create a
workbook, you would go above andbeyond so that different
learning styles would do well.

(01:34:55):
So gamification, reward system,badges, just little things like
they complete a video, andcelebratory on the page Like
congratulations, you did it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
I want a crown.
It's a fictional crown, but Iget it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
Feel good and, you know, pat on the back stuff Like
it comes, because we have aweak culture that needs
encouragement, needs praise,needs all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
All the time.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
But you can either work with where we are or you
can say, oh, they should do thisright.
You will be more successfulmeeting people where they're, at
using tools to actually getthem to go where they want to go
.
And yes, for some people it'slike you have to.
It seems like you're doing alot and you're pushing them
uphill.
But for the long-termrelationship, if you can get

(01:35:50):
them to that tipping point wherethey do go over and now the
gamification is irrelevantbecause they're so sold on what
you're doing like and they getto that tipping point and you
create success with that person,they're not just a success
story, they become an advocateand so they go out there.
And you know, I bought a hundredprograms and this is the first
one I completed.
Well, it may have been thefirst one they completed because

(01:36:11):
you happen to reward them foreach step.
So, while it doesn't make anysense because they paid you
money and they should go through, be like paying for college and
never going to a class Guesswhat there's people that do that
mostly because they're notpaying for it someone else's.
But the reality is.
The reality is is like you as acontent creator, course creator
, educator, whatever that islike they're buying from you and

(01:36:37):
you have the ability to changetheir life.
And if you actually take theextra steps to get as many
people as you can over thattipping point that you've
promised Like, your businesswill grow and you'll succeed.
And I think it will be aseparator.
And so other people who choosenot to do this because they're

(01:36:59):
like it's not my responsibility,they won't survive.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
Do you want to write a book or do you want to have a
coaching course?
If it follows, I would saythese are our great predictions
for 2025, but they're also greatpredictions on how to increase
your success.
If you're doing the nichemarket, if you're doing the
personalized service, if you'redoing the monthly membership,
the only way you're going tokeep them when you're doing the
gamifying is doing thepersonalized service by doing

(01:37:24):
the high value, high touch right.
So if you follow, actually, allthese things that we just laid
out, this is a recipe forsuccess in 2025, even if it
doesn't trend, but I thinkyou're probably right, it is
trending.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Yeah, all right, beautiful wrap up.
All right everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:37:39):
We'll see you sometime, 2025.
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
Success.

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