2023 Week 8 Review: Gophers Finally Win Floyd, Invalid Fair Catch, Michigan Cheating

Chip Scoggins, Ryan Burns and Justin Gaard recap a wild finish in Iowa City as the Gophers (and PJ Fleck) finally win Floyd of Rosedale. The guys give their thoughts on the "Invalid Fair Catch" and their thoughts on the reaction to it before talking about Big Ten West race and the latest in the Michigan cheating scandal.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Glenn Mason said a long time agoat the University of Minnesota. You need
a Pair and a Spare. Yes, thank you, PJ. It's time
for another edition of The Pair anda Spare podcast. Justin Guard from the
Fan, Chips Goggins from the StarTribune, Ryan Burns from Gopher Illustrated dot
Com. We are presented by ourgreat friends at Jack's Cafe. And here's
how you know. Jack's Cafe getscollege football, gets Gopher Sports gets the

(00:23):
bit. Floyd of Rosedale hasn't beenback since twenty fourteen in Minneapolis. It
was here for less than twenty fourhours, and it was already at Jack's
Cafe. Yes, it was.It's been Floyd has been to Jack's Cafe
more recently than the rest of us. Why because it's college football, Because
it's history, and that's how Billand everybody rolls. So Bill was texting

(00:44):
me about the remember the Jug makingan appearance in nineteen seventy seven, late
into the evening. I don't think. I don't think Floyd was there that
late, guys, But Sunday nightthere he is Jack's Cafe. Why wouldn't
he be Why? And that's whatI said, Why wouldn't he be.
I don't think he's still there.I'm pretty sure he was at the Vikings
game last night. I mean,but Floyd's available, and Floyd was available

(01:07):
because for the first time in areally long time, certainly the first time
in since nineteen ninety nine in IowaCity, the Gophers beat the Iowa hawk
guys twelve ten. Nothing to discussoff this game. Nothing. Nothing has
dominated conversation both north of the borderand south of the border. Let's start
before we talk about what everybody's beentalking about. Let's just talk about the

(01:30):
fact that they finally got it done. They finally exercised the Iowa demon did
PJ Fleck in this group? Andit took seemingly every second, every break
and an obscure rule that needed tobe followed. But there you go.
Yeah, and I you know,I said last week, if not now,
then win because that is not agood Iowa team. It's not.

(01:53):
I'm sorry, there's not. They'reterrible offensively, They're worse than terrible.
They're atrocious. They're the worst.They are so the worst offense in college
football. It's indisputable. Sam HoustonState wouldn't want to say something about that
indisputable, so you cannot lose tothat team. It had to end and
it just felt like all they hadto do was get the lead because Iowa

(02:15):
could not play catch up with thatoffense, and they did. I mean,
what changed? I would say Iowahad been running the ball. Well,
we talked about that last week.Their tailbacks that had over two hundred
yards in each one of their lasttwo games. Joe Rossi says, okay,
well, my front seven is goingto have the best game of their
season. Twenty carries for the Iowatailbacks thirty three yards and if you make
Deacon Hill be the one that beatsyou. Yeah, three turnovers from Deacon

(02:38):
Hill plus three in the take givethat's what wins you the game. Yeah,
it's and you didn't allow those twoexplosive plays that have beaten you the
last couple of years. Right,And that's what we talked about season.
Yeah, well, just anything,I mean. And that's the reason they
beat Wisconsin a week ago was becausethey had an eighty r touchdown run.
The reason that they beat Michigan Statethey had Cooper Dejean with a punt return,

(02:59):
but they also had a long touchdoartlike that that you didn't allow any
of those. I think the longestplay they had was on that first drive,
right the thirty six yard pass.Ye broken play, broken pocket,
You can't get home, and that'swhat happens. You did exactly what you're
supposed to do against a bad Iowaoffense, and then milked just enough enough

(03:19):
said field goals won't beat Iowa.They barely did. They barely barely did.
We're going to talk about how Iwas feeling on the field, certainly
after those two Iowa turnovers and thengetting pelted with Coors lights, bush lights,
bush lights. We're going to benothing but accurate here, all right,
bush lights. But let's talk aboutthe controversy. PJ Flex saying on
Monday there is no controversy. Itend to agree with them. Now.

(03:44):
The irony, the irony of thewhole thing that I've been thinking about is
what if Cooper Degine got tackled atthe ten. I don't think we'd be
talking about the invalid fare catch signalright because it was only reviewed essentially because
it was a scoring play unless Ihave the sequencing wrong. But by the
letter of the law, by therule, it's pretty obvious once we all
figured out once we all saw itand we figured out what the rule was,

(04:08):
that the place should have been blowndead and it wasn't. Yeah,
would they if he doesn't score.I don't think they review it. They're
not going to review probably right,probably because I don't think the refs really
saw it or were paying attention toit, or which is that I was
texting with somebody last night. That'smy feeling on it. I feel like
it was only reviewed because it wasa scoring. I think that, yeah,

(04:29):
and I and I do wonder ifthey didn't go to look when he
got that ball, I thought hewas going to step out of bounds,
and I think same the Gophers guyswho were running down there thought he was
going to step out of bound,because there's how he got out of six
bodies in that confined a space.I'll never do it. Didn't really have
to make that many moves, saidto move forward. Yeah, So I

(04:51):
thought that's what it was. Ithought, well, let's let's stay there.
Is that assumption of that's what everybodythought was being reviewed him stepping out
of bound. He's noting Kirk Farence, so as he was told that,
well, that's the funny part is, you know, was asked yesterday at
the press conference. Somebody was like, well, did you know that they
were reviewing because he was stepped inthe fleck? Goes, Why why are

(05:12):
we making the assumption that they werereviewing it because he stepped out of bounce.
That's not what I was told,he goes. I was immediately told
it was the Infalida. Sobody noton the field or up in the box
or they so maybe it would havebeen reviewed then Yeah, No, I
don't know if that's why people thinkthat. It's because the TV crew was
saying, well, he must havestepped out of bounds because he was so

(05:34):
close. I'm just telling you whatFLEX said yesterday. It was but it
was never about did Cooper Dejene stepout of bounds? It was they came
over and told me, we're reviewingthe invalid signal. And now that I
think about it, it was announcedit was reviewed really quickly, like Degene
was still in the end zone likecelebrating. Yeah, and I was.
I've watched it a bunch of timeson the TV copy and they immediately say

(05:57):
the following play, the play isunder review, Like if it was just
because it was a scoring play.I don't think they say that. They
usually just hold everybody up and theywait and then they go, yep,
it's good, and you go.So somebody must have seen it, whoever
it was. Yeah, whether itwas an official upstairs or whatever. Maybe
maybe we'll get some resolution on that. And if it's on the field,
they should have if they saw itright away, you should have blowed it
dead. Yep. Fleck said,that's what happened. It should have been

(06:20):
blown dead to begin. Yeah,yeah, I mean, how many times
do we have to look at thatplay and see him pointing at the ball,
him waving his arm shoulder high forthree seconds, right, yelling Peter,
Peter, poison, poison, whateverit may be, everything about it
should have been blown dead. Wego back to the Eastern Michigan game which
Fleck referenced, and that Daniel Housetweeted out the video from. Yep,

(06:40):
Quintin Redding tried to do the samething with the quick thing out to his
side with his left arm that wasblown dead. Or even you go back
to twenty fifteen Wisconsin Northwestern. Thatwas a huge part of that game where
Paul Christ loses his mind in thepost game because Wisconsin is the victim of
that play, like, this isn'ta new this is not a new rule.
It's been around for a long time. But I think, well,

(07:01):
I know, parents muddied the waterswith his explanations after the game about he's
meeting with officials and it's farm abovethe head. It's like, that's something
totally different than what this was,and so he sent everybody down this path
thinking it was trying to tell peoplethat Cooper Degene, a future first round
draft pick, a point zero zeroone percent athlete in the world, was

(07:21):
trying to balance himself. Are youhe runs that natural running? People are
running like that? I do wonderand having not you know, we don't
watch Cooper the Gene's every punt return. How often has he done that?
And it not been That's what that'sI think. My question is is does

(07:41):
that get blown of the time ordo I think because he did it three
times, three or four times,it was obviously he's waving and he's assuming
he's yelling something, saying get away, get away, get away. If
you do it one time, onewave, are they going to call it
three seconds and then pointing and thenverbal it's it's the whole deal. But

(08:05):
but I think the way it wasexplained in the post game because then the
official did the poll reporter from ScottDoctuman came out and you're like, no
vel, that's that's indisputable. Ithink the way uh Farrens explained it,
he's just trying to absolutely muddy thewaters because he's like, no, we
go over this in pre game handraised, that's the fair catch. It's

(08:28):
like, that's not what this people. This wasn't called because it's not a
penalty. It's not a call.Yeah, that's the thing people are sending
out these videos of Look at allthe times this isn't called because it's not
a penalty. The play just stopsthe play, throw flag. It's not
about something being called, it's aboutsomething being allowed to happen. And so
well that's what's it's in. Youknow, this is a Tuesday, So

(08:52):
I mean, we're what three daysremoved at the moment, You're we're all
sick of discussing it and going onand everybody mentions yeah, and people are
still dug in on it, AndI get it. If you're on the
wrong side of this, I'm sureit's infuriating because you just don't see a
lot exactly because it's rare, becausethey let the play go, because they

(09:13):
let the play guard, and becauseMinnesota special teams coverage unit completely melted down.
And so that's why we're continuing totalk about it. We're ten minutes
into this podcast and it's still andit will be what we remember from that
game, even though it should havejust been an immediate whistle. And well,
Iowa had the ball to forty sixwith ninety three seconds left, needing

(09:35):
a field goal with the win attheir back, they needed like eighteen yards,
yes, they needed to go twentyyards. Yeah, and then they
here's the thing against a Minnesota defensethat allowed five hundred yards to Northwestern.
But I guess the defense that hadallowed what negative yards in the two yards
at that point or whatever it was. The second Iowa knew they couldn't do
it, well, here couldn't gotwenty yards with that quarterback. Well,

(09:56):
here's the theory for you. IfIowa fans don't then Chuck Bush lights out
onto the field to allow Minnesota thenobviously comes off the sidelines. But here's
my theory. They get to regaintheir composure and get back a little bit
of that momentum. Yes, Yeah, if they would have just had to
go back out on the field witheverything that would have happened, and not
had an extra five minutes, Ithink Iowa get twenty yards and wins the

(10:18):
game. Why I don't, Idon't. I don't think we have seen
that defense just melt down in spotslike that. Yeah, but they hadn't
been in that game. They hadnot been, but we had seen previously
on the road so far this year. It's a hard hypothetical. I think
they were so dialed in eventually onthat the quarterback wasn't good. Now,

(10:39):
anything could happen, because really,you need one catch. I mean,
you need one rut. Yeah,exactly, you need one play or one
face mask or That's that's where itgets dicey, is you didn't and that's
why Iowa punt it, you know, and we haven't even talked about that
when it was two minutes left infourth and ten, like that's that's a
pretty ballsy punt right there. OutIt almost worked for him. Yeah,

(11:01):
but because you know, the gofersare going to be conservative, even though
they weren't, they threw on seconddown and by the way Eighthan almost threw
a pick. Yeah, I meanthat was maybe his worst throw of the
game. Was that I'm trying tothink about. That was that saying,
Okay, Iowad knows we're gonna run, let's try to catch him by surprise.
Yes, And Daniel Jackson got hungup well, and then Aithan's just
got to like run forward and stayin bounds and keep the clock going.

(11:24):
Instead, he throws it behind anybodyin between three Iowa guys, and I'm
just like, oh my god.And that was right in front of me.
I was like, people don't know, like how close how close that
was to like something bad. Theonly people around that pass or Iowa people
and so but that punt, youknow, that was what Farence was banking
on, is we're gonna pin themdeep, They're gonna punt into the wind.

(11:48):
We're gonna get it at midfield,and we need fifteen yards and that
can be gained in a variety ofways, as we saw in the touchdown
drive to end the half. Butit was funny like the only way that
defense was going to give up yardto them, as if they gave it
to them like they did in thefirst half of those four pilties, right,
I mean they had completely The quarterback'sterrible, but for them to shut

(12:09):
down to run the way they didthat was impressive. That was the key.
That's like, you know that we'vetalked about for so many years about
how Iowa Wisconsin lines should be yourlitmus test. I mean, Minnesota's defensive
line absolutely gave it to the Iowaoffensive line. And I know it's not
Robert Gallery walking around out there TristanWirfs, but that's been part of this
deal the last few years. Istwenty one, you hold it for forty

(12:31):
minutes and you find a way tolose. Last year you have it.
I mean we've talked about it endlessly. You won everywhere except the scoreboard,
and now you finally do win onthe scoreboard. Why well, you were
pretty dan good in the trenches comparedto the Iowa Hawk guys, and the
relief is what I felt mostly,guys. And you had a great picture
chip of PJ out on the fieldwhich went nuclear after the game. So

(12:54):
I'll set it up like because ofkind of inside journalism, but because of
our deadlines, I couldn't go downto the the locker room because it was
too tight. So I stayed upthere and I'm you know, I'm I'm
hammered, you know, I'm hammeringparents over the thing. And I hear
there's two I don't know if they'remedia members who they were, And I
hear him saying, look at PJdown there. Pj's on the field,

(13:16):
and so I look up and he'sthe only guy on the field, the
only person in the I don't saythe own person in the stadium. I've
gotten as like if he's the onlyperson who stadium. How the picture getting
taken. Well, I'm in thepress box, man, people really believable
chime. Yeah, we'll get tothe people. Yeah yeah. But I
you know, I could tell hewas uh he You could see he was
talking into his phone, facetiming withsomeone, and he was walking back and

(13:39):
forth and just kind of soaking itin. And so I took the picture
not thinking, hey, here's thehead coach. You know, I just
never see a head coach all aloneon the field after a game like that.
He's been viewed like seven hundred thousandtimes, and the responses from the
Iowa fans are like it was PJ. Uh like rubbing it in no like

(14:00):
making it all about him. It'slike he wasn't posing for a picture.
He went out there to get awayfrom the take in the freaking moment of
something he hasn't been able to doin yeah, seven years. It was
weird the vitriol that came out aboutthat fold. It's a strange, strange
phenomenon. I mean this one.PJ needed this one in a big way

(14:22):
badly. The staff needed this oneprofessionally and mentally for everyone. That's what
I mean. You could tell,at least I couldn't. I don't know
if you guys heard the interviews Idid on the field. I know you
talked to some of the guys after, but like when Tyler Newban's like tears
in his eyes immediately after and saying, this is one of the reasons I
came back this game, Like uh, Nathan bow saying this is for you

(14:45):
know, go down the list ofall the Yeah the players. Danny Strugo
said, it's like a weight islifted off of our chess. These guys
felt it's almost like the Twins streak. These guys felt the weight, the
collective weight of this series that theyhadn't done it and like you said,
Burnsy, that they did everything butwin the game the last couple of years,

(15:07):
Like you could tell, they feltthis weight being lifted off of them.
And that's what I think PJ didtoo. I think nobody more than
the head coach, because this isthe one thing and there's other things he
hadn't done jam you know, buthe's heard about this over and over and
imagine if he would have gone anotheryear here in this if that, if

(15:30):
the gene had not waved his hand. You're right, that's what I was
thinking. That one would have gonedown with Wisconsin dropping the punt in the
and zone yep, or dropping thesnap yep, block punt. It would
have gone down with some of theall time gut punches yep. It would
have been hard to recover from withespecially the last couple of Iowa games where
you already had the certainly the gutpunch of last year where you think you're

(15:52):
winning it with five minutes left andthe guy who's fumbled four times in twelve
years of college football, Ibraham putsit on the ground like that doesn't happen.
Cooperen housing a punt when seven guysare around him and he catched it.
That doesn't happen, and it wouldhave happened, It would have happened
again. And you guys around PJmorning, I am, but just being
around him, you know how muchthis weight on him. Oh, Iowa
absolutely, absolutely. It's not justduring the season, because I can assure

(16:17):
you with it being a rivalry inMinnesota and Iowa going after a lot of
the same players. You get torun into Iowa coaches on the road or
you're recruiting against Iowa, and youhear the things that are said from both
staffs to the kid. And soit would have been another year of hearing
who has the pig, who doesn'thave the pig? Who's had it?
Then seven straight years? Even justeven him yesterday, I don't know if
you guys listened that he kind ofgave a peek behind the curtain in terms

(16:41):
off he went home and Pj's abig bourbon guy. Yeah, and he
finally got to crack open the onethat had on the label anybody wouldn't drink.
Who knows that? That's part hesays, It's like an open house.
I got people come by, Let'shave that one. Nope, can't
do it. That's Rila. Whoknows if that's true love. But it's
a great story. It is agreat story. It's a great bit and

(17:03):
it's a great story. But that'swhy we all love college football. Like
I and I know you tweeted aboutit too. We're going to get into
the craziness chip. But it's undefeatedthere and the Gophers are four and three
now, right, that's their record. Yes, Like we'll talk about the
West and we'll talk about they didn'twin a national championship on Saturday. But
like to see that emotion and thatvibe and even talking to other former players,

(17:25):
like that's what I always like aboutworking with Daryl, Like to see
how proud Daryl is of that,or Ray Hitchcock, who's bringing Floyd and
the acts to Jackson Sunday, likeformer guys. I mean, that is
you know the families that were downthere. You know, I heard from
a ton somebody tweeted me and said, I surprised my dad for Father's Day
with tickets to this game, andI brought them down and I'll never forget
that. Like that's college football.That's what the magic is. Like NFL

(17:48):
Pro sports, it's all great.Vikings had a huge win last night.
Most enjoyable game of the year.Like to see people celebrate and take that
in that have been to Iowa Citysince nineteen nine and haven't been able to
do that. Yeah, it's thegreat that's why, that's why we all
love it. And I think aboutyou know, I had one eye on
the third Saturday of October. Uhand we lost that. But I think

(18:10):
to a year ago, like whatthat felt like for me. Yeah,
right, Tennessee, finally to getpast Alabama. But the one thing I
do love to and maybe it's alittle corny, but I love when they
get trophies. Those trophies. Yeah, those things are cool. Yes,
and you know the yes, andjust like what what those things symbolize?

(18:30):
And I mean I think you hadto say it's like first time is ninety
three they've had both in the samehouse. Yeah, that's crazy, it's
nuts, thirty years. It's goodperspective too, I think, by the
way, good perspective on how thingshave gone around here and kind of how
they are now. And well,even it's nice to be involved. It's
nice to be involved in the tworivalries and have this go back and forth.

(18:52):
I've never seen as much cigar smokeas I they were lighting. That's
what I'm that is what I'm worriedabout a little bit because the only other
time I've seen cigars Wisconsin, Wisconsin. And you have a break after that,
you've got time before the bowl game. Like there is a game Saturday
against Michigan State, and you knowwhen when half the team's banging heaters in

(19:12):
the pink locker room, not evenjust cigars, when they're just walking around
just like they're like, it's likea Vegas night club. Like you guys
got play the spartans here. Wegot this twenty four hour rules, gotta
go. I hope there's no runningbacks, you know, smoking these cigarettes
because you might need twenty carries onSaturday. But yeah, yeah, there's
a great picture making the rounds twoof PJ with a cigar like it's yeah.

(19:33):
I even said to somebody, likeI forgot that rivalry games turned into
Vegas after you win. But that'sthe fun of it. That's I mean,
you have to live with it atthree hundred and sixty five days a
year, the result of these games, especially here, Like I don't think
you have to live with it inIowa or Madison, as much because there's
not as many transplants. There's nota lot of people except from Lakeville that

(19:55):
are just in Madison right just livingand doing whatever. Like here. Adam
Thielen nailed it a couple of yearsago when he talked about the Vikings and
the Packers. He's like, yougo to school with Packer fans, because
there's a lot. He's like,when the Vikings beat the Packers, like
you know, you can wear yourjersey on Monday and feel good. Like
I don't know if there's a lotof people wearing Darius Taylor jerseys on Monday
or Eighthan Cali aganis, but we'llsay principal remains. There's Iowa and Wisconsin

(20:18):
people all over this metro and inyour neighborhoods, and it's nice to have
one up on him if you're aGopher fan. Even from going to the
story, even like taking my dogfor a walk, I've never seen as
much Gopher gure out in my sectionof Roseville that I've seen all year.
And again that's part of it.But even within that, I feel like,
maybe because I guess my niche offans is very deep in the weeds,

(20:40):
there's still a lot of consternation,good transition about like you told us
that surprise me about they won thegame, And I feel like a lot
of people are focusing on yeah,but Ethan looked terrible. Yeah, special
teams. And it's like if youcan't if you look at this game and
your sitting here whenever you're listening tothis podcast Tuesday, Wednesday and you're still
not feeling joy? Why are youa college football fan at this point?

(21:04):
Yeah, it wasn't aesthetically pleasing.What Iowa game versus any opponent has ever
been aesthetically pleasing? You won thegame, first time since fourteen, first
time since ninety nine in Iowa City. Like, if you're still having trouble
finding joy and a rivalry win,what are we even doing here? Yeah?
I would say say that for Mondayor Tuesday, we can worry about
the goodness specialties. It's like,I mean, did you think it was

(21:29):
gonna be pretty? I mean exactlyexactly? Who was telling you beating Iowa
is ever pretty? Right? Inwhat world? Even Iowa? When Iowa
wins a game, when has thatever been pretty? I know, I
know the Gophers offense, you know, is not much better? But I
can't imagine being an Iowa fan havingto watch I've watched it two straight weeks.
Yeah, asscause it is painful.Yeah, and I you know,

(21:52):
Beth Gatz is the ad downer.Now I think she's in a roum.
But she left Ball State to beBarta's deputy. Was like she might seem
like it was an ad and waitingsituation. I can't imagine you allowed this
to go on after this year.There's no possible way you can say this
is acceptable, especially after they don'tallow Farens to talk this week during the
bye week. Yeah, that's theTypically during the Iowa bye week, their

(22:15):
coordinators talk. And nobody's talking thisweek except players. I think some players
are talking and maybe the head coach. Yeah. The Well, let's talk
about the game specifically, because partof the reason why it was available for
Cooper de Gen to possibly steal itis because unfortunately, like and the Gophers
left a lot on the table.Again, they really did. And I

(22:36):
think it was the first strip sackwhich ended up getting the ball, like
the thirty yard line, Gophers wentthree and out, mister, mister field
goal, right along field goal.I just remember sitting there and going,
that's why you can't beat these guys. I didn't like that sequence the time
out. The timeout is third andthree, call timeout, and then you
run it up the middle. Again. I didn't like that. You're you're
going into this as we heard theyou know, greatest win that's ever had

(23:00):
happen. Why would you set upa forty three yard field goal for that,
right? I feel like there weresequences in that game, and you
can certainly point to him, andI think that was one where it's was
PJ. Fleck calling the plays orwas Greg Harbo calling in the place?
Yeah, And I could think youcould see, especially on those turnover sequences.
I think I know pretty well whois the one directing run pass.
And the second one is even moreconfounding because you get the ball out to

(23:22):
ten, it's like, all right, yeah, this just happened like an
hour ago. He came away withno points. End it is Mortal Kombat.
Or I said, finish him.You've got the guy just standing there,
he's staggering, woozy. Put themdown on the mat. And I
know he talked about the long gamethat Belama told him about and all these
things like okay, you got theball to ten, like throw everything at

(23:47):
it. Is this the time whenyou do something that you haven't done in
five years, like literally get theball into the end zone And they kicked
the field goaling everything. Threw iton second down, right and third down,
and Ethan didn't want to test onewhere I think he would have had
Daniel Jackson on a good throw,yeah, corner to the end zone,
but he ends up just eating it, taking a sack. And the other
one was that he airmailed Danious andthen he tried to throw a very low

(24:12):
percentage fade across the field to DanielJackson. Didn't even give them a chance,
which is the play that they've beatNebraska on. To be fair,
I mean that play that throw theyhad a little bit more room, yeah,
because he was a little bit fread. The only one was a post
corner for him to get in adeep en. I'll look at you,
Greg Harbo. Those situations are wherethe tied end, being invisible in this

(24:36):
offense kills them. And even thoseare the moments where he should shine.
And I, for the life ofme, I have no idea what has
happened in the field goal that puthim ahead twelve ten third and five.
That was a great ball. Itliterally hit him in the face. Mask.
Yeah, you can't throw that ballany better in that coverage. It
would have been a first down,fresh set, first and ten at the

(24:57):
eleven and you just it hits himin the face. That's the season it's
been for him. It has andthat's the so when people talk about eighth
in struggling, and there were timeswhere he did some of that could have
been winn as well. There wasone pass that everybody thought just duck it
mean, was deflected, like therewas Donovan McNabb's two of them. He
bounds two, you know, andthat's okay. Those are on him.

(25:19):
Corey Krus didn't help him in thefirst half, Geor didn't help him in
the second half, like it is. Everybody wants to focus on the QB
and I get it they should.But also when they dialed one up to
into the wind for Daniel Jackson whenthey needed it, it was it was
right there. And how he comeback he finally did. I thought his
best throw was the third and fifteen. Was that the Jackson the Jackson likes

(25:41):
where he I feel like eighthan ifit's if the guy's in motion. He's
struggling like if it's if it's across or whatever it may be. But
his best throws from Saturday, ifhe knows he's got to throw to a
spot where he's got to throw toa guy's stationary, that's where it is.
But it's when anything is moving laterallyor his deep ball right now is
just he cannot find that thing forthe life of him. And he finally

(26:03):
did to Daniel Jackson, who Ifeel like we haven't talked about enough where
Yeah, he looked. That wasas good as I've seen a Gopher receiver
look against an Iowa secondary in years. I mean, seven for one on
one, and he probably would havehad more if aith and could have been
more accurate in spots. But butJackson played well too. It is I

(26:23):
mean they're just not I mean,in that passing game, you trust Daniel
Jackson, and you thought Corey Krums, Yeah, I think Jackson. I
still trust Crew. That's I wouldargue that's the only player they trust right
now. I'd give Krums another shotbecause well, yeah, he can't just
be one guy and Athan has tobe more consistent. And I do you

(26:45):
think it's mechanics with him. Ithink I think he was just swimming.
Even when he came down in afterthe game, Nathan Bow was talking.
He comes in, Athan just justsitting there and you could just tell he
was there were a lot of thoughtsgoing through his head. I don't know
that they were joyful, but hewas continuing to kind of figure out what
is going on. And I think, I mean, you look, if

(27:06):
you just want to talk Athans specifically, I think he's got six games now
to prove that he is still theguy that they should be building. Right.
I agree, you got five moreregular season in a bowl game,
and he's got to prove that theequivocally, yeah, he's the guy and
it's not there obviously, and ifthat doesn't happen, you're going to see
them go after a transfer quarterback who'sthe starter caliber in the offseason. So

(27:30):
he's got six games to prove thatthis. He's got to show progress,
and he's got to show tangible progress. And you look at the next three
games specifically, Michigan State to doIllinois are not world beaters defensively right now,
We'll see if you're on RB fourand five, maybe they can key
on the pass a little bit more. But he's got to show progress.
Yeah, that's what the rest ofthis season is. I mean, you're

(27:55):
still alive. And obviously we talkedabout the Vikings season looks different today.
The Gopher season looks different after thatwin. Can you imagine if if the
Degene thing stands and then you're threeand four off the bye week, how
this season the rest of the peoplecheck it out? Then, oh,
my goodness, wouldn't be It wasan inflection point for a multitude of reasons,

(28:15):
without a doubts, but it isI think this is this is a
referendum. Excuse me on is heis the quarterback the guy you unequivocally say
is your starter next year. Ithink they also to have to let it
go a little bit. I mean, that's what I liked about the second
half is they came out and said, we got to go through it,
like we're not gonna be able torun the ball as well. Our running

(28:37):
backs are banged up, Like,let's at some point you got to see,
at some point you got to taketake the reins off a little bit
and let him go. And andit's funny though, I mean, we
went into a season thinking, man, he has all these targets. Well
la Mechi's yeah, yeah, youforget about that. Krums is he just
put the way he started his career, you know, he's who looks good

(28:59):
and then spanned four That's where westarted this whole thing. It's unbelievable.
Yeah, I know. So youwere sitting here saying, you too remember
a time where again he catches fortypasses last year, great run blocker,
most in spat space, it's multiplepreseason All Americans, and then he's done
this too. Can you imagine orwhat is the last Gopher player that comes
to mind for you two that you'vejust seen a drop off? And to

(29:22):
me, as far as I've heard, it's not injury related. No,
he's just there a lot. II can't remember another highly Gopher player like
this. I need some time tothink about it because I can't think of
anybody off the top of my headwhere they're not getting what they thought.
Even if you think about the Nebraskagame, you had five catches I think
in that first game and little seamroutes and you know, just and that's

(29:45):
probably I heard your go for gridIron. Thanks for getting it out early.
By the way, Yeah, Ididn't even have to do bedtime.
It was like the middle of theday. I'm like, you have to
one o'clock. No, I justwas hanging out of housework because my family
was gone. Well, you weretrying to make bear. I was trying
to make bear. That's a that'sa whole it's a whole different podcas imagine
me trying to grill bear. Didn'tshoot it, but was able to get
some What are we talking about again? Uh? Brevin like that Nebraska,

(30:08):
But Derek was talking about if youare down to Sean Tyler and we'll see
what happens with Darius Taylor and ZachEvans who didn't play. After halftime,
he rearly gave like a positive positive. He was like, yeah, well
we got some good news on him. Hopefully one of them is at least
in the mix. It's just inwhat world are we believing PJ Fleck on
injuries? Yeah, I don't.I mean, I don't listen to anything

(30:30):
he says about shoot. I evenasked him a Cody Linnenberg question yesterday.
I was like, and do youthink it's realistic? He comes back in
November, plays four games so hecan red shirt, but he's back in
November. He just says realistic,gives me one word, and I'm just
like you. I love it.I just because he's got this and he
smirked on his face burns. He'snever won. He's like the Washington Generals,

(30:55):
the Washington Generals against the Globe trotters. But if you can't run the
ball or you are down to yourrunning back, I mean you are going
to need those little short passes toget some thing's going here, and you
gotta get somebody besides Corey Crimson,Daniel Jackson, whether it's Elijah Spencer,
or if you give Jamison Gears ashot at tight end. I just Chris

(31:15):
samon Bell like, if you aregoing to continue to roll out Brevin for
eighty percent of snaps a game,there's got to be a it's now or
never a game for him coming upsoon, and I think it might be
this weekend, because if he can'tproduce, to your point, if they
can't run the ball and they gotto do these short stuff, well short
stuff's going to go to the tightend. And if he continues to have
these baffling drops, at some pointyou just got to continue to phase them

(31:38):
out. Anything else you guys wantto talk about on this game special Teams.
Yeah, it almost was that.I would have argued if that thing
would have stanned, it would havebeen the straw that broke the camel's back.
Finally, but how can you saythat? I mean, how many
how many more straws do we need? And it's not even the degene thing.
The return thing is inexcusable. It'slike it's off turns, hit the

(32:00):
turf. I don't even see thatin high school games. And the thing,
Yeah, the thing that bugs meis it always looks chaotic, Yes,
and it has for years, likeunprepared chaos, which is antithetical to
how the rest of the team alwayslooks like. Even I always say to

(32:22):
people when they ask me about PJ, because if you're not into, if
you don't watch all the games,you just see him jumping and doing all
the PJ stuff. Like even whenthey were horrific twenty seventeen and had no
players and lost thirty nine zero atNorthwestern and one of the worst days ever
because it was cold, snowing,raining, windy, and the Gopher score
zero points, I'm guessing they wereprobably penalty free, like it was well

(32:45):
organized. I go. Even whenthey were bad, it was an organized
operation. Badness like the stuff itwas always wasn't self inflicted. It was
just they weren't good. They've alwaysbeen disciplined. That's it. And that's
where it's like. That's where theconnect is for me, is it's opposite
of everything else that the head coachseems to stand for and what the program

(33:07):
is. That's where it's I don'tget it either. I don't get it
either because mistakes happen there that don'thappen on any other phase. It's very
strange and much to the chagrin ofyou, I asked him a special teams
question to hear about this, soit wasn't but I love it. Just
a transcript transcript said, our specialteams have been great this year. No

(33:30):
yesterday, which yesterday, but thisis from after the games. Smokes coming
in every you know, PJ istalking about, you know, everybody celebrate
with great duck beer, blah blahblah, great win love everybody kind of
way. It's burnsy just goes outsideof drug and how are special teams going?
And he I'm trying to like roomswell he just like by the way,

(33:54):
Burns's correct. I want to beclear on that. It's just funny.
It's you can't help yourself. You'resitting there and just how do you
watch that? Ask about it?Just well? Yeah, and then I
asked him yesterday and then Greeter didtoo finally, but it was just like,

(34:15):
feel like I'm crazy. I feellike I'm crazy because I'm the only
one asking questions about it. Well, you're doing it so no one else
has to, but everyone's taking Yeah, I think where you know he goes.
You know, I'm paraphrasing, buthe's like, because Special Teams is
on the field for so few plays, it gets like magnified. And I'm
like thinking myself, well, yeah, well you've been magnified seven years,

(34:37):
which is why they should be.They need to be good why that's why
they're important. The return stuff iswhat I mean. You you've you've done
the numbers on how many yards they'regiving up again in for a team and
a program like, why has Iowabeen able to win all these games despite
having the worst offense literally ever?Is because they maximize every single inch of

(34:58):
the field, because of their kickoffs, because of their punter, because he's
always good. World but so that'swhy though the hidden yardage and the Gophers
don't get any hidden yardage. Evenin twenty nineteen we talked about this.
They were winning in spite of hiddenyardage. And you know, Crawford wasn't
horrible the other day. He washe is what he is. He was

(35:21):
fine. But it's to me,it's return the opening kickoff of the second
half. It's the turf, Areyou kidding? That's tough. And then
I don't know, I didn't agreewith that targeting call, but that IOWA
had called against h Yeah, thatwhere Redding gets absent. By the way,
it's not just reading the kickoff returnblocking has been absolutely god awful.

(35:44):
Again, it's not just one thingwith the return game. It's just all
sad and bad. But thank Godfor dragging. You know, he's great
a college kicker. You can moreor less pretty much depend on'sous is worth
its weight in gold and just Imean he is. We never have to
see the kickoff coverage team because ofthem. Yeah, because he just makes

(36:04):
even against the wind the other day. I mean he's putting it in the
first couple of rows of Kinnick.Yes, so the Serbian hammer himself he's
a weapon. He's a weapon,and the guys love him. I mean,
he's a one of my favorite personality. He's the greatest. And yeah,
he was a big time Special TeamsPlayer of the Week, had a
Nubin Defensive Player of the Week.You have a big win like that.
Those things happen. So you gotthat off your chest. We're good,

(36:28):
will continue to be the I mean, you have multiple outlets to vent your
frustration. And I understand it.It's just I know, I'm just it's
going into the wind at this pointbecause nothing ever changes. And I wrote
that after the game, was justlike, because they want it's going to
be another afterthought. Nothing will everchange. And I asked the head coach
and he's just like, yeah,they've been fine, they've been pretty good.
I'm like, how can you lookat yourself in the mirror and believe

(36:51):
that that statement coming out of yourmouth? But twelve to ten you finally
get it off your back. Anythingelse we need to discuss on this game?
On the Floyd of Rosedale finally returningto the pen as PJ called it
and as the players called it,and on some good social media stuff thirty
seven minutes on Gophers Iowa, anythingelse we need to discuss on this particular
game, Guys, Rivalries are fun, right, It's fun to be in

(37:14):
the mix. It's fun to bein the mix. All right, Let's
pause here and talk about our greatpartner, Jack's Cafe. We mentioned at
the top, Floyd of Rosdale hasalready been to Jack's Cafe. No reservation
needed for Floyd. Floyd botch rightin. I'm sure the matchbox was there.
But why is Floyd making a stopat Jack's Cafe? Because for ninety
years they've been about, you know, supporting the University of Minnesota, supporting

(37:37):
Gopher sports. And it's just aphenomenal place for a celebration. And that's
what was happening on Sunday, NationalFootball Honor Society thing going on on Sunday
night. The acts was there,Floyd is there. That's how they roll
at Jack's Cafe. And before wetalk about just the food, the menu,
the vibe, the whole deal,guys, I want to point out
a couple of things. Jack's AnnualHunter's Dinner is November seventh. I won't

(37:58):
be going, even though I cookedbear. November seventh is jackson Annual Hunter's
Dinner and we talked about it acouple of weeks ago. Breakfast with Santa
first three Saturdays in December, thesecond, the ninth, and the sixteenth.
Info is on the website Jackscafe dotcom Jaxcafe dot com. I told
Bill that once I get my sixyear old hockey schedule all locked and loaded,

(38:19):
we will be able to schedule ourbreakfast with Santa. But that's the
cool thing. Whether it's a specialevent like there was on Sunday night,
whether it's holiday dining for you groupsfrom fifteen to four hundred, they can
accommodate all of you. Or ifyou just want to have a nice date
night with your spouse or a wonderfulbrunch with your family. Jackscafe dot com.
You guys, why you've got mecurious about this Hunter's dinner. I'm
not a hunter, but that I'mguessing. I'm sure there's some medison that's

(38:42):
going to be on the table that'llbe open after that. Dear dear gun
opener. But even happy hour again, I continue to get tweets every single
week, but you guys need totalk more and more about this happy hour
Jack's Cafe. So happy Hour datenight, brunch, Santa around the corner,
jackscafe dot com. I'm looking atthe holidays schedule you've got. November
seventh is the annual Hunter's Dinner.I do want to learn more about this

(39:05):
as well. November twenty second,they've got a gift card sale unbelievable.
Twenty third is Thanksgiving. We knowthat breakfast was Santa the second to ninth
and the sixteenth, and then you'vegot all kinds of different time to book
your own holiday parties, including forNew Year's Eve and including for New Year's
Day. Jackscafe dot com support thosethat support us. By the way,
guys, we got to figure outhow we're gonna do it. We've got

(39:28):
tickets and parking to give away fromMichigan State Boy, I gotta pick it.
By the end of the podcast,what are we gonna What's gonna be
the phrase? We need people tolisten to the podcast. How many old
tennis photos can I find of Justinguard with an earring? There's really only
great There's really only the one StarTribune one. Then I might have to
take it. I'm getting circulated.There might have any more. I'm gonna
have to text your wife and seeif I can find some old Chipskogins photos

(39:49):
from twenty years ago. Oh boy, because you know death taxes and you
and me standing on stage in betweenMarucci and onareet and somebody's screw at us.
Start your day. It's true.Yeah, Chip is well insulated from
it. At jackscafe dot com,jaxcafe dot com. The Path to the

(40:10):
West, let's talk about that realquick, Burnssey. You have done all
the permutations I mentioned. I mean, the Gophers will be sitting so pretty
if not for that final fifteen minutesat Northwestern. We've been talking about it
for a month. That one wasgonna that one was going to be a
bugaboo. Should they continue to winand should they continue to knock off some
of these teams? Technically they controltheir own destiny if I believe so,

(40:31):
if they were to win out,because you've got Wisconsin so outside of a
house sta, I mean, you'renot going to beat Ohio State. But
yes, that's why I said,technically, Ryan, Okay, technically,
and who knows, maybe they shockedthe world. Maybe they go into the
horseshoe. They've done it before intwo thousand with Glenn Mason, and Ron
Johnson. Maybe Daniel Jackson becomes RonJohnson for a quarter and they jump out

(40:52):
to a lead and all of asudden Columbus implodes. But anyway, let's
for the sake of arguments, saythey lose to a high Estate. Yep,
how does how do the Gophers getto Indy other than that? So
you gotta be at Michigan State,Illinois Perdue, and Wisconsin doable. So
what you need from to happen fromIowa is for them to just lose one
of their finals. I'm pretty sureit has to be the Nebraska game,

(41:14):
which Black Friday they Nebraska won lastyear, and then from Wisconsin. Wisconsin
plays Ohio State this weekend, andI would imagine they're going to lose,
and then Wisconsin just has to losethe Minnesota at the end of the year
and then you have the tiebreaker.You'd all be six and three in conference,
you'd have the tiebreaker. I wouldsay this, Iowa is not gonna

(41:35):
win out with that offense. Here'swhat they should be doing. By the
way, the fact that Cooper Degendoesn't get twenty snaps on offense is criminal.
Like that quarterback aside, like getthe ball in that guy's hands.
I throw Castro out there too.I mean, just use your best player.
They don't have to play. Mostteams go three and out against them

(41:57):
anyway, It's not like they're ti. Why when you do the wildcat with
him? Well, it's been discusseda lot. It's been discussed a lot.
But yeah, they've got Rutgers too, by the way, Rutgers six
and two. Yeah, yeah,bowl eul Minnesota East to you, that's
true, Joe Harris, Simek collinthe defense, and you got Kirk Sharaka
call on the offense. That's right. Yeah, Rutgers scores thirty one points
and I think they had thirty sixpassing yards last weekend. Very their quarterback

(42:21):
ran the ball, yes he didtouchdown correct hundred something yards. And then
but in Nebraska's four and three two, I mean, Nebraska's playing for their
first bowl. Nebraska's defense and wethought, yeah, but again, that's
your path. If you I thinkIowa could drop, I think I think
i But just in the scenario,how does Minnesota still get dandy? They
got to win four their next five, which they they could lose all five
in their next five. That's true, that's the thing about the last all

(42:44):
these teams can win or lose toNebraska really to stand up here, Nebraska
needs to. I mean, theygot to beat at least Wisconsin or Iowa
in this scenario. But I thinkyou can just take care of business,
and I would argue they're going tobe favored in the next three games the
golfers. Yeah, they're touchdown favoritethis weekend against Michigan State. You're going
to be a home favorite to Illinois, and then you've got to go to

(43:05):
Purdue to take on Ryan Walters.And then at the end of the season,
we'll see what Braylen Allen looks likeafter another thirty touches last weekend.
Right, But I mean there's stilla plausible way. It's just especially with
the current state of this offense whereJordan Nuban might be getting carries this weekend.
There's a lot of assumptions being made, but the path is still there.

(43:25):
Even with the Northwestern loss. Yeah, I mean, I I that's
why for so many reasons, theyhad to win that games already. Yeah,
Like if you don't, then youknow, you're just talking about well
in this game, yeah, WesternWest straight, Yeah, just having this
especially if you can beat Wisconsin againand you do have both like that's important
and we've talked about it on thispodcast. That's what saves seasons. That's

(43:47):
what makes seasons that were spiraling outof control salvagable. Doesn't mean that they're
great seasons or elite seasons or historicseasons, but they're good seasons. They're
salvagable seasons, and that's why winningthat game was important. You're right,
there's no team in the West thatcould look and be like, yeah,
that's a winnable. There's not agood team. We said that coming into

(44:10):
last week and it still remains goinginto the last week October. All these
teams aren't good. There's good facetsof them, but they're not good team.
Nobody's really put it all together.No, nobody's put it all together.
The opponent this week, Michigan State. Spend a second on them before
we talk about their big brother,the Michigan Wolvergines. In our final couple
of minutes, I sent you guysthis tweet. Let me see who this

(44:32):
is. It's a freelance writer fromLos Angeles. I'm going to clean it
up a little bit. Don't thinkthere's ever been a college football season where
a team bottomed out on the field, fired the coach after he on a
call with a vendor, and hadto issue a statement explaining why Hitler was
on their video board as they lostforty nine zero to their biggest rival.

(44:55):
Yikes, don't mean to laugh aboutany of that, but it's some it
up, doesn't it. Michigan State, we know why Mel, why Mel
Tugger's no longer there? And thensomehow against Michigan when they get boat raised
and we're going to talk about theWolverines, a quiz, a trivia question
comes out on a board that hasto do with where Adolf Hitler was born.

(45:19):
This is inappropriate, even with what'sgoing on in Gaza at the moment.
Let's take that out. But alsodoesn't help timing wise to throw Hitler
on your video board. As yousay Burnsy the Year of our Lord twenty
twenty three, you just go whatnow? Their marketing guy is saying,
a somebody somebody put we grab thisfrom a from a YouTube channel. Let

(45:42):
me throw it up there. I'dsay, I'd start your own content,
I'd screen it because anything. Man, this was so bad and it just
is another thing that Michigan State ishaving to deal with that program cannot get
out of their own way. Imean years now, tell me third party
vendor nonsense. You should know everythingthat you're You're putting it on your scoreboard.

(46:05):
It's your scoreboard in the biggest homegame of the year for you.
Oh you look up there and there'sa picture of Hitler on your scoreboard.
Like what it's you can't make itup. It's impossible up and who's the
person thought? You know what,let's stomp them with this one. It's
not funny, but it is funny. Like what, it's college football.

(46:25):
It's just it's Michigan State. It'sjust and Tom Mizzl's got to be just
sitting there going what am I doing? Yeah, because even a miniat for
Media Day the other day, he'slike, Hey, this place is me
I mean this, I love JeffGoodman exactly. He says this, I
love Michigan State. I want tobe part of bringing Michigan State back.
That's part of the reason and isat some point it's got to be like

(46:47):
guys, yeah, can help me. Can I get a little help here?
But just the failure of leadership atall levels at that school somebody's been
suspended with pay, some low levelmarketing guy who's in charge of the scoreboard,
which is unfortunate, and but youjust you just throw it in the
fire of crap that has been It'sjust a Michigan disaster. They're an absolute

(47:09):
disaster. Yeah, they've had theirhead coach fired and he's fought it.
They've lost five straight games. Yep. They had I think a senior or
a defensive captain hit the portal today, oh today, Yeah, defensivelignment for
them. They've lost five straight.They made a quarterback change a couple of
weeks ago. This is a programthat is spiraling. So if you look,
if you're in Minnesota this weekend,when it's thirty eight degrees, if

(47:30):
you can get an early lead onthis team with all the things they've had
to mentally do the last six weeks, I think you can put them away
early. But you got to getoff to us fast start. Yeah,
just just get it done. Butdon't mess around. I know you don't
believe the momentum, but you haveit now, correct, Yeah, Like
keep it, get out there,start fast, and this one let's have

(47:52):
a thirty one ten day and getthe hell out of here and move on
to Illinois. I'm thinking it's goingto be like twenty to ten. But
yeah, yeah, no, Iwas being a little optimistic. Yeah,
I was being a little especially ifJordan Nuban is getting carries and they can't
figure out how to use Sean Tyler. Right right, We'll see, we'll
see, we'll see. All right. On the Michigan side of things,
the Harboss saga continues. Remember hewas already suspended for the first three games

(48:13):
of this season because of some illitalrecruiting activities. Yeah. Self imposed,
Yeah, self imposed, because theNCAA still has to rule on how they
would like to punish him, althoughit may not matter at this point.
Does anyone believe here on this podcastthat Jim Harbaugh is coaching the Michigan Wolverines
to start the twenty twenty four season. I have a hard time seeing it.
I'm saying no, I'm saying no. I'm saying he's in the NFL.

(48:36):
Yeah, And even if he's not, I think they have to do
something there. There's all this comesto light. And so what we're talking
about, if you missed it,is was it late last week? It
was late last week? Yeah,Like Wednesday or Thursday, we found out
that the Big it was Wednesday,the Big Ten was investigating or the NCAA
was investigating Michigan on a sign stealingoperation that had been going on for a

(49:00):
little while, and reporters doing whatreporters do, they start looking into it,
and I think Friday, a youngstaffer named Connor Stallions was identified,
former Navy guy who on his LinkedInprofile and paraphrasing basically said I can find
out what everybody's doing. It's essentiallya spy and I'm paraphrasing. All of

(49:21):
his social media, by the way, has been scrubbed. Even his Venmo
has been scrubbed because that has comeup as a possible source of information.
But reporters dug into it a littlebit more, and Pete Dammel I believe,
had the story first that Connor Stallionspurchased tickets in his own name for
more than thirty games over the pastthree years at eleven different Big Ten schools.

(49:43):
Sources at eleven different league schools toldESPN the scope of the Michigan alleged
signs stealing operation includes both video evidenceof electronics prohibited by the NCAAA to steel
signs of significant paper trails. Stallionsforwarded the tickets he bought to at least
three different people in different areas ofthe country, which hints at the breadth
of the organization. The other essentiallyas spy worthy as this is, he

(50:07):
didn't cover his tracks very well.No, because he bought the tickets himself
in his name, schools can trackwhere those tickets went, and then schools
can look at what was going onat those tickets, and in many cases
people were just sitting in those seatswith their phone recording a different team size.
The most fascinating for me that theschools, once they had the guy's

(50:29):
name where he sat, they hadthe video footage, they can go in
and they could go see what theperson was doing. They were literally just
holding the phone up at the sidelinepretty much, or just sitting there scrolled
in. And that's where I evensent you guys a link to a tweet
I saw last night from the OhioState Michigan game last year. There is
a staff for holding like a pant, like a laminated sheet, and it

(50:50):
is of different arm signals. Yep, from what I assume is Ohio State.
Now I know everybody's like, well, everybody does this, and no,
no they don't. Look during agame, you'll see, like on
the Minnesota sideline, they'll be holdingup things behind the guys doing the signs.
Yes, if you want to tryand steal the signs during a game,
fair game, go for it,yep. Like, but if you're

(51:13):
same as baseball, We've talked aboutthis forever. If you're purchasing tickets two
weeks before you play an opponent tosit on the opposite side of them to
then record, that is illegal.He did purchase, by the way,
two tickets to the Penn State OhioState game this past weekend in Columbus,
one on each side of the stadium. Coincidentally, those tickets this Saturday went

(51:34):
unused. And I'm not making thatup. Hmmm, Like it's crazy.
A lot of games with I've boughttwo tickets to a lot of games.
I've never bought them on either sideof the stadium. Sit with them,
like, hey, Chip, let'sgo to let's go. Well we're not
gonna sit together. We'll go tothe game together. You sit on that
side and just let me know whathappens, and then I'll sit on this

(51:54):
side. I mean that to me, tells you everything you need to see.
This guy like checking it, Okay, is it a wide out?
Don't need to wear exactly? Ohmy god, he's the one guy.
He's got to change his shirts becausehe's gotten different sections. He does all
this stuff and then buys it inhis own name and it's crazy. And
by the way, in case anyone'swondering, he makes fifty five thousand dollars
according to the Michigan Uh. Iwonder if yeah, so who's funding this?

(52:19):
Well, who do you think isthe one that initially got the ball
rolling? Do you think it wasMichigan State when it comes out the week
of Michigan State. I mean,you and I have talked about the Greg
Chiano halftime interview. Yeah, that'swhere I wonder, Yes, that had
to be it right? Well,well, I know you wish the sideline
reporter would have had a follow upto what do you mean by some things?
That was tough? Yeah, thatwas That's a tough one for the

(52:42):
sideline reporter. It is a toughlook when Chiano basically says there's a lot
of stuff going on in league basicallyyeah, it's like I get it,
fog of war I've been down there. There's questions you want to have back,
But come on, man, likeyou got to say, what do
you mean weird? What do youmean stuff that's not right? But I
heard you play it with Dan andlike, holy out, exactly exactly that's

(53:02):
not right. So do you thinkit was Michigan State Rutgers? Do you
think your guy Fleck is the onethat did it? And no, But
in talking to people recently, okay, they've this has been on the radar
for a while. Well, Ithink it's it probably was the dirty little

(53:23):
secret in the league that people like, something's going on there with Michigan.
But they're good, but they're juststeamrolling everyone. It's like they know the
calls are coming right well, andeven somebody one of the stories that I
read in the last couple of dayssaid that this guy was basically somebody confronted
this guy and was like, hey, we know what you're doing. Well,

(53:44):
I thought it was I don't knowif it was. I thought I
read that that Chiano approached him onthe sideline. Maybe that's who it was.
I just remember that I thought itwas a coach. Yeah, maybe
it was. It was just definitelya coach that went up to somebody and
so we know what you're doing,and blah blah blah blah blah, and
here they are. And it's so, what do we do with this?
That's the question? What? Becausethis is I this is pretty messed up.

(54:06):
I think they get the hammer droppedon him. I think in twenty
four. I don't think anything happensthis year, though. I mean,
this feels like one of those thingswhere you vacate wins and vacate, which
is on ticket purchases fall into aseat location pattern somewhere around the forty five
yard line, raised up enough fora clear view of the opposite sideline.
One source told ESPN Stallions bought ticketsto five different games at that school over

(54:27):
the past three years. Another saidit was four games over the past two
years. A third source set itwas nine games over the past three years.
I did reach out to some Universityof Minnesota people, wondering, hey,
did this guy show up? Iwas told no comment, yeah,
which I don't know why, becausethe thing I'm curious about is, so
is he he's buying the tickets inhis name, but is he letting other

(54:50):
people use him? Yeah, he'stransferring. Yeah, he's on the sideline,
Like, how would he he's working, Yeah, he needs he needs
his so he just they're downloading thewhatever they're stealing. Yeah, him,
and then he's yeahsping it to threedifferent people in different areas of the country.
And then he's going his own littlemoles that he sends out. He
does want When I did ask,how quickly could you figure out if this

(55:13):
guy bought a ticket? And it'slike fifteen seconds because you just type his
name in. Yeah, he typehis name into your database and oh,
yeah, there he is. Heused his credit card. Yeah, this
is why your guy, you don'twant people knowing your business. I told
you, wait a second, youwere You were at Wisconsin, Iowa last

(55:36):
week. Where'd you sit? Fortyfive yard line? Chip? You got
some things to answer? Interesting youwent? He went to Kansas a couple
of times. Kansas play. Arethey playing Michigan anytime soon? That's what
he learned up in the Smoky Mountainsespionage. I want to figure out how
to zoom in on his phone?Oh yeah, I could his video or

(55:58):
even transfer I saw my picture.It looked like it took her from the
moon. Yeah, that's true.Yeah, are you sure that was even
him? Did you have your readerson? So anyway, this is because
I was saying to somebody to like, if this has been happening over the
last three years, because people,I was going, it's Michigan. Why
do you have to do this?I mean, I'll play devil's advocate.
I don't endorse cheating. But also, if I'm Harbaugh, I look at

(56:22):
it and go, Okay, I'vebeen winning nine or ten games every single
year, and you jackasses wanted tocut my salary and run me out of
here. You're gonna fire me anyway, I might as well cheat, Yeah,
because I mean two years ago,his salary was completely slapped before they
started winning Big Ten titles and goingto the College Football Playoff like, which
to me was preposterous just because theycouldn't beat Ohio, Like literally, that's

(56:43):
what people were. He had establishedcredibility with the program until this. He'd
gotten them back to where they're moreaccustomed to being and he still had to
take like a fifty percent salary dump. If I'm him, I'm probably like,
well, you guys are firing meanyway, I'm I'm cheating because obviously
none of this can happen without thehead coach knowing at some point, like
he doesn't know, Like, man, where do we get those signals?

(57:06):
Yeah? Like what is this?Who's this guy in our staff? And
what is he doing? Yeah,we're paying fifty five grand and we're getting
all this in fault Like come on, like it's yeah, it's got to
be over. Like, so there'sthere. He can't be coaching there anymore.
I can't imagine after this season he'sstill there. I wonder what the
NA does though. I mean,how many times have we assumed that they're
going to give somebody something and thenit's just like you're like the sweatshoot you're

(57:30):
wearing right now, Kansas, andit's a slap on the wrist. Yeah.
Any Penn State Ohio State thoughts.I didn't get to see much of
it. I'm just misch. I'mdisappointed in Penn State. Very are they
one of seventeen or whatever? Yeah? Third down? Yeah, I saw
it. Yeah, And you know, we've we've slept on Ohio State a
little bit because they haven't been likesuper impressive. Yeah, And I'm I

(57:52):
was disappointed because I I want tobelieve in Penn State for some reason,
because like I think they have itkind of like we were just talking about
with hardball, Like Franklin has donea really good job there. He can't
beat two teams. I mean thoseteams are the absolute class of the Big
Ten, their top five every year, and that's what you're going up against.

(58:12):
Like it's tough, but you alsogot to beat him every once in
a while. Yeah, I wasdisappointed. I picked him when I thought
they'd play a lot better. Theyjust Ohio State was better up front than
the Ohio State also had just hadthe best player on the field and Marvin
Harrison Junie. Yeah, that's wherethat helps. Penn State's got good corners.
Penn State knew who they were goingto be throwing the ball to,
especially without a Mecca Buca and MarvinHarrison. It's just he's a dude's better

(58:36):
than you. Yeah, I meanit's going to be as like you know,
is he going to be as goodas his dad and have that long
of a career in the NFL.I mean I think he is that good.
Sources would indicate he could. Yes, I mean he is just so
so good. Give him good healthand he will eleven catches one hundred and
sixty two yards in a touchdown.He was trying. But even like with
James Franklin, he has won.If you go back to the start of
the twenty twenty two season Penn State, in all the games that they've won,

(59:00):
they've only lost three now to OhioState twice in Michigan. They've won
every other game by double digit points, including the Rose Bowl last year where
they beat Utah by two touchdowns.Like I saw people asking, God,
we got to fire Franklin. Franklin'son the hot one when we were there
a year ago, hitting me.We were there a year ago with the
Gophers for the whiteout game and peoplevery friendly tailgaters, and so I'm doing

(59:21):
my Fox show out there and peopleare essentially saying, wouldn't be the worst
thing if the Gophers won because wecould get Franklin. I'm like, you,
guys, this is insane. Thisisn't twenty fifteen coule in Day.
No, this is your winning everyother game by double digit points. You
just won the Rose Bowl last yearby two touchdowns. Now they need the
College Football Playoff to expand they needto get there, like they're an example

(59:43):
of we're trying to figure out whatall these teams are playing for. What
are the Gophers going to be playingfor? What's Iowa Wiscons's going to be
playing for? If not a divisiontitle, These rivalry trophies are going to
be big. But like Penn Stateneeds twelve teams, so they can sneak
in and go play Florida, orthey can go play Florida State or somebody
you know in December as opposed tothe that that's there they knocked out.

(01:00:05):
Yeah, well, just they willbenefit from from playing somebody else in a
big game because it's a big youknow, Ohio State's never been better consistently.
Michigan right now has never been betterconsistently cheating or not. Like this
is as good as those two programshave been collectively at the same time for
this long, at this high ofa level. And so it's a tough
ask. It's a tough ask,and but it is insane that that's but

(01:00:30):
that's the pressure of coaching. Ilove to see what's going to happen with
when Michigan play those two teams thisyear and with all this sign stealing stuff
going on, oh Man November isgoing to be fun. Just the theater
of that. Oh my gosh,how are we gonna give away these tickets
Michigan State Parking? And I'm gonnafind an old picture of Chips Coggins,
so we need to have it Chiprelated. Chip related? Man. Okay,

(01:00:54):
well this is your this is yourbaby. Then you put the big
Sometimes we do a phrase, maybemake people listen to the pod. I
think we should make people listen tothe pod this week. Okay, we'll
tweet out how they can get Well, you know, Chip's also famous for
beer games, so I want youto tweet at the pod what you think
Chip's favorite beer game is, specifically, whether it's beer pong, whether it's

(01:01:15):
his new favorite weird beer dice game, whether it be say the beer dice.
That's the phrase I was gonna say, if he even knew what the
game was called. So, whetherdo you know what flip cup is?
Yeah? I have actually played thatone. I would love to play flip
Club. Maybe we'll do it ata bowl game this year and we got

(01:01:36):
So if you want the two ticketsto Michigan State and you want the parking,
I want you to tweet at thepod what you think Chips Coggins favorite
beer game is and we love it, and we'll give away I'll say,
Thursday night, we'll get those ticketsout to you, all right. I
love it. I love it.Good to see you guys. We all
made it back from Iowa City inone piece. That's good. You look
healthy. I haven't worked out asmuch this week because but I feel good.

(01:02:00):
I feel good ish, I feelokay. Thanks to Jack's cafe reminder
Jaxcafe dot com, they've got theBreakfast with Santa's coming up in December.
Breakfast with Santa only one of themcoming up in December. The Annual Hunters
Dinner coming up November seventh. Allthe info there, Jackscafe dot Com.
Reservations there as well, Jaxcafe dotcom. Thanks everybody. We'll talk to

(01:02:22):
you next week on the PARENTI Sparepodcast