2023 Week Ten Review: Gophers Lose to Illinois, West Slipping Away, Gaardsy Mad About Year 7!

The guys recap the Gophers loss to Illinois on Saturday and what it means for the Big Ten West Race (spoiler: it's not helpful). They also react to the latest news out of Michigan and what should be done with Jim Harbaugh. Gaardsy also spends some time explaining a pet peeve he has with a certain way fans are judging PJ Fleck.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Glenn Mason said a long time agoat the University of Minnesota, you need
a Pair and a Spare. Thankyou, PJ. It is that time
another edition of the Pair and aSpare podcast presented by Jack's Cafe ninety years
in Minneapolis. Unbelievable spot Jackscafe dotcom, Jaxcafe dot Com. We'll talk
about them in a minute, butfirst we've got Ryan Burns from Gopher Illustrated
dot com. We've got Chipskogins fromthe Star Tribune. I'm justin Guard from

(00:23):
Cafe Inn and the Gopher Radio Network. Let's get first things first. How
was everyone's Halloween? Everybody good?We didn't get many kids as year.
Was your light on? Yeah?I could see you forgetting to turn light
a light on? Did the cold? Is that what it was? We
scared? Maybe this is the twentiestheory was normally because we have several neighborhoods

(00:45):
connected, mm hmm, that kidshit all the neighborhoods and our streets become
older. We don't have as manyyoung kids anymore, right, so I
think people just probably stayed on theirstreet. Yeah, what do you give
out? Because houses get known,especially amongst the kid Yeah, my wife
got the candy she had, uh, you weren't like and sweet with chocolate,
so she had, you know,the butterfingers, but then she also
had the nerds and the Yeah.I could have seen him given him like

(01:07):
worthers, Yeah, or like chipcould be the house. There's always there
was always a house that give outlike apples and like two bress. Yeah,
we're worth it. Mean he's gotthe little dish in his den.
Of course he does. He's gotthe little dish in his den. I
mean he is that commercial and sharingwith your grandparents. He's thinking about it.
You're the progressive commercial. Yeah.Tell me you don't love words,

(01:29):
I mean they're fine. Love isa strong word. Love. I haven't
had one. I think the lasttime I had words was nineteen ninety three
with my grandpa. So, Imean, I have fond memories of having
a orders. I don't know ifI'm honey, rooms, do you have
just a little dish of hard candyand chip? I don't know if I'm
seeking out worthers, if I'm like, hey, put this on the list,

(01:49):
honey, So you got like apeppermint hard candy dish in each one
of the room, peppermints are okay. Peppermints are okay. See, we
we're in the the kind of thephase of life where we try to avoid
all the hard candy because of thechoking hazard, you know what I mean.
It seems like a smart decision.Like my guy at Pilgrim Cleaners,
Alan, He's got a great,great candy dish right there in the front

(02:10):
when I drop off shirts for drycleaning and stuff. And every time the
kids want to have something like Idon't think so we got scary And I
tell Alan, I go, comeon, man, can we get some
butterfingers or can we get some chewaboysin here? But that's all right.
I'm sure your Halloween was great.Not as good as your parents, but
I'm sure it was. Fah.There it is one last time I brought
it up until next year. He'sall mad at the PJ Press conversation.

(02:32):
You brought it up? You broughtdid you get comments? Oh? Yeah,
my parents heard about it. Ihope. My mom doesn't even understand
what a podcast is. No,so she's like, how many people hurt
it? And I'm like, justa couple. If no one listens to
this, yeah, a few andthen my dad was like, yeah,
I got a couple pun calls.I think we said this last year.

(02:53):
Your dad loves it. Your mom'smortified, but you brought it up.
I have nothing to do with it, Like you led let him down the
path? He said, what didyou expect us to do with that information?
That reminders? Just let it go? Okay, let's talk about the
golfers, Like, no, wehad to spend a little bit of time
on that. So what do youdo on Halloween because you're out and about.

(03:15):
So does one of you stay home? No, we either leave a
dish or we just say you're onyour own. Kids. Sorry, because
last year, my wife your kids. No, no, no, no,
we don't put anything out. Okay, this year we didn't put anything
out because my wife was so madbecause a year ago, like one kid
rolled through and took all of it. She's like, I'm doing it second
straight year ahead of kid. Dothat. Yeah, I got the video

(03:37):
doorbell like we all do. That'sit. Watched him take twenty five candy
bars and leave. Who are yourparents? Yeah, that's what I want
to know. I'll blame the kidfor this. And there's been a lot
of videos because it's funny. Noweverybody's got the ring cameras. They've got
there. There was one series oflike three moms that basically were leading the
charge with their kids, going comeon, guys, grab it all.

(03:58):
It's like, you're horrible people.What is that? Now there's been a
couple of videos and congratulations of theseparents where you see kids go up to
an empty dish, disappointed for aminute, and then put some candy that
they don't like that in the ball. Those are the kids. That's who
you aspire to be as your story, your chap a little bit. It
does. There's good people out there'smister Rogers once said, look for the
helpers. Look for the helpers.So this year, though my wife is

(04:20):
like not doing it, whoever tookthem ruined it for the neighborhood. And
we have a lot of candy too, you know from different from Easter and
Halloween and all this stuff, Likewe could have we could have put out
some candy. Yeah, but usuallyour kids are little like there's gonna be
plenty of time for us to getthe door. So they get home and

(04:41):
they organize the train. I rememberkids doing it. Yeah, it's great,
Yeah, it's great. And they'veall, you know, and then
they figure out like what candies theylike, which one dad likes. Their
gym teacher has them brainwashed that theyall had to bring him kit cats.
So number one candy, Yeah,that is my hot it's a great one.
And so I texted him because Iknow him, and I said,

(05:02):
hey, man, you're kind ofdepleting my KitKat stock here, because I've
never seen kids more diligent about gettingsomething done than to make sure they had
kitcats for mister I the gym teacher. He's a great teacher, great guy,
great teacher. So anyway, HappyHalloween, especially to Burns's parents.
Thirty one, thirty two years,No, thirty one years later, thirty

(05:24):
two years later, because it wasa Halloween blizzard. You're thirty one,
you nailed it, so thirty twoyears. What a magical night that must
have been. And I hope theyhad great, great memories this last Halloween.
I hope for the kids in theirneighborhood sake, they at least turn
the light on for a few minutes, for a few minutes. I hope
one day we can tell a storythat can mortify Chips children so that he'll
share with us probably off. Imean we have the charger, the beer

(05:47):
games, the credit card. Imean, all this stuff should mortify mortified
by me at this point, alsodeath taxes, and you and I sitting
there in between Maryuci and the stadiumand somebody walking up to a chip and
say you are just you're You're alegend. Where have you been though?
I mean, I remember I saidGopher football is going to be in an

(06:09):
inclusive place. We miss you,buddy, I mean we missed you the
last couple of games, the pressconferences. Two games, now, I
mean it was one okay. Thefirst one is that you weren't at Michigan
State. Yeah, you missed thelast two. Yeah, because I don't
think you've been Vikings Packers yep.And we were traveling on that one.

(06:30):
And then you could have gotten tooGreen Bay after the game, my uh
colleague level wanted the level. Yeah, so all right, and that's kind
of teammate you are, all right? Well, we miss you. Yeah,
we're glad to see you. Wemiss hearing the sounds of broken keys
on your keyboard. You know,the pitter patter is I go to try
to get one last Coca Cola beforethey lock up the counter. You know,

(06:51):
I know it's bad because Royce wasmade a comment about the other day
and he types as hard as Idid. You're typing yeah, yeah,
Well it's like, wow, betterdown a little bit. My Illinois counterparts
were trying to grab a beverage afterthe game and they went up to it
and they were like, why isthis locked? Yeah, and he was
like, I know, I know, yeah, I know. I'm the

(07:12):
University of Minnesota. Because we we'recounting cokes. Ye, we're counting because
that's important. It's going to helpus. It's going to help us make
budget this year. We're counting cokesand you know where were we I don't
know. I don't want to complain. I don't want to complain. Yeah,
it's not worth it. We knowthe people that listen, yes,
and then the things we're going tohave to sit through. We have a

(07:33):
we have a we have a niceworking environment in Huntington Banks Stadium. That's
what I'll say, a lovely workingenvironment. It's very easy to get around,
it's very easy to go do likethat. It spread out. Yeah,
it's great, got plenty of room. It's a it's a lovely stadium
and let's just leave it at that. Yep, the Gophers fall twenty seven
twenty six to Illinois. Brett Belamagets one for the other thumb. He

(07:53):
is now ten and h against theUniversity of Minnesota seven and l at Wisconsin
three and oh he's beaten PJ.Fly in the Gophers all three years that
he's been in Champagne. It lookedlike the Gophers were going to lose,
then it looked like a since theywere going to win, and then they
ended up losing on a forty sixyard pass from a backup quarterback who hadn't
played since September to the best playermaybe on the field, Isaiah Williams,

(08:16):
who somehow broke wide open after atimeout and went between arguably the two best
players the Gophers have on defense,Cody Lindenberg and Tyler Nuban. And just
like that, what was setting upto be an outstanding day for you in
the Big Ten West standings, giventhat Nebraska lost, given that Wisconsin lost,
and I will win one, butyou have a head to head with

(08:37):
them, and they have some losablegames on their schedule. I was talking
with someone before the game, guys, and they said, man, if
we just and this is a personaffiliated with the You. If we just
do what we're supposed to do here, we are going to be in a
pretty good spot. And unfortunately theycouldn't close the deal. Chip, We'll
start with you your general thoughts onthe loss to the ALIGNA. Yeah,
I was thinking that that Lindenburgh punchout was going to be one of those

(09:03):
defining plays in the season because Ithought that was going to be the thing
that won the game. And thatwas on a third down that they convert
and then and they could strain it, and I'm thinking, this game's almost
there. If he doesn't make thatplay, I think the game's over.
It's worth remembering that. And Iwas sitting there thinking like that's gonna because
in a season they're defining plays,that was going to be a defining play.
Yep, man, you forget aboutit now. Unfortunately the defining play

(09:26):
Williams. Now, Yeah, youcan't lose a game. I mean,
it's just excuseable. There's so muchto get to about that game. Your
safeties cannot get beat deep there.It just it can't happen. I mean,
and I know they're say it's amiscommunication, but I go back to
third and nine into the first half, you run it up the middle and

(09:48):
kick a field goal. At somepoint you have to play to win.
You can't be so conservative and riskaverse. I mean, your quarterback is
in a rhythm, he's throwing theball. Well, I thought he had
a really nice first half. You'retied, end made a touchdown, Daniel
Jackson has become a go to guy, and you run it on third and
nine and settle for a field goal. You can't how many times does this

(10:11):
coach have to be we have togo through this. I think it's important
to note because you say this coach, and all the three of us know
who we're talking about it. It'snot Greg Harbown, it's PJ. Fleck.
Because there's so many certain instances thatyou'll see three to five plays on
offense within a given game where you'relike, yeah, that's got Fleck's fingerprints
all over it. And he actuallygot bailed out there to an extent on

(10:35):
the third nine because Bielima didn't usethe time out, which he would actually
didn't, which he would have gottenthe ball back with over two minutes left.
But I just, I mean,the difference between seven and three in
a one point loss. It's like, at some point I don't understand it.
Well, here's what what is therationale there? The rational to me,

(10:56):
the rationale he has is And thisis where it's faulty, this particular
seae. And I know we've hadother seasons like this as well, but
he thinks his defense is just goingto hold everybody and we've got enough.
Now he's coming off two weeks wherethey did. Let me give him a
stat the Gophers are one hundred andfifteenth nashally in third down defense. There

(11:18):
you go. A year ago theywere six nationally twenty percent. It's not
the same defense. He can't coachthat way exactly, or even within that
specific game. You'd already given uptwo touchdowns. Now again, one of
them is a gift of special teamsand the other one they actually go down
and get. But your defense hadn'tbeen playing well really at any point in
that first half. Yet you're tryingto lean on them again. But even

(11:39):
if regardless of the defense, putkeep your foot on the gas, especially
when your quarterback is in a rhythmthe second straight week, he's played so
well in the first half, andthis is the most mind boggling part about
it, and I asked Flck aboutit yesterday, is your quarterback has played
really well in the first half andthen then the second half combined in the
last two games, Chips, youknow how many passes ethan Is completed the

(12:01):
second half of bust two games.H Well, he was only two.
Last week he was what a fouror three? Minnesota has completed three second
half passes against Michigan State in Illinoisafter Ethan in the first half was like
eighty percent in both, multiple touchdownsin both and you know one of those
his crews drops a touchdown and thenwhat well, yes, but then what

(12:22):
happens. Fleck gets his fingerprints allover this offense tries to go risk averse,
thinking he's got mo Ibrahim and he'sgot Jordan Nubin and a banged up
Zach Evans and then this thing justdoesn't work. Here's why that that's really
the one scenario that really bothers me. And I know there's others to talk
about, but why that one playbothers me is because you're at the twenty

(12:43):
two yard line and you can affordWe talked about it on Sunday, Burnsy,
you can afford a sack there.You know your your guy can let's
say it's a ten yard sack,which is a deep sack. Correct,
you're still to thirty two. Yougot a kicker that can make a fifty
yarder if you need to. Like, I know, you know, we
had fun last year with you know, he didn't want to throw an interception

(13:03):
whatever game it was, before thehalf, and the next week he goes
for it. There's a tipped ballthat gets picked right at Northwestern and then
he comes up to you all hotand heavy saying this is what I was
saying. No, I said thatI can't believe I'll reckless you or before
the half, what are you doingthrowing? And he said that had nothing.
I just want everyone to know ithad nothing to do with last week.
Blah. But so I get like, he doesn't want to turn it

(13:24):
over there, But also, yourquarterback's playing well, you've you can take
a sack. So if you're afraidfor a turnover, I get it,
But I don't get it. Ithink because you can play that game either
way, you can't coach that way. If you're so worried about turnovers,
Yeah, then you get the wrongpersonnel well, sorry, it's just it's
not even that as much as becausehe keeps saying we have not we have

(13:46):
yet to play a full game complimentary, complimentary football. And what I'm gonna
talk to him abou at the radioshow today is it's November. We kind
of have to stop waiting for it, right, We kind of have to
coach. You might not have acomplimentary game. Yeah, in the next
three weeks, you might have tomanufacture some other stuff you might have to

(14:07):
take. So that one like thenew beIN third and one around midfield,
I mean, I know it gotblown up. Whatever. I mean,
he went for it on the thirdand four and his QB airmailed over a
six to seven field like they makethat play. The game's old, so
there's times where they do. Ithink that the strip sack he goes.
Now, you can argue he shouldhave thrown more than just on first down,
but they dial up a play rightthere. Ethan puts a pretty good

(14:28):
ball on probably should be a touchdown. It's like when he does what we
think should he should do doesn't work. And yeah, and by the way,
also what you've said, and Iknow I'm rambling, guys, so
feel free to take it from here. Twenty six points is enough to beat
Illinois, Yeah, no matter howconservative you are, thirty four or whatever
it is against Northwestern. Yeah,the two games certainly should be enough.

(14:50):
The two games that you lost weredefensive implosions where you've scored twenty six points
in a Big ten West game,Big ten West game, which, oh,
by the way, Minnesota's number onein the Big Ten West in points
score. Think about it in conferenceplay? Think about that? Yeah,
yeah, well I was, andthen you lost the game. He scored
thirty four. Yeah, I know. I was looking at it yesterday,

(15:11):
just their pass efficiency because I wascurious to see if you know where they
are one hundred and thirteen Nashally.I'm like, man, it's bad.
It's like there's five worst teams ina Big Ten than that. I'm not
kidding. It's it's unbelievable how poorthe offensive play is in this conference.
And for them to lead the BigTen West and scoring in conference play conference

(15:35):
games is even an indictment to yourpoint with like Athan on those, I
mean, he played, he playedwell, he's playing better since the bye
yea. I think we all canagree with it. I agree with that
but it's consistency. It's that it'sthe second down where he pulls it.
Inflec mentions it yesterday. If hejust puts his left foot in the ground
and goes north south. Yeah,we talked about it. He probably gets
a first down and then it's theworst case if you don't get another one.

(15:58):
Illinois gets the ball back with likeforty seconds left and it's going to
be way deep. Or again youallow Harbaugh, Harbo, We're gonna do
this. You guys got to pulltogether. It's not that hard. Like
Harbo goes to an unbalanced formation wherethey shift Arianta Earstreet from left tackle all
the way to the right side.That means Nick Caller up the tight end

(16:18):
as your de facto left tackle,and they go with the Auburn pop pass.
It's wide open, and then Ethanjust goes Johann Duran for whatever reason.
That's where I struggle with him,because make a play like you see
the touchdown pass to Daniel Jackson,Yeah, which by the way comes off
a turnover and second play, I'massuming they take a shot, yeah,

(16:41):
and they hit it, and soit's like, so I'm torn with the
I know he was conservative in somestretches, but there was also times where
they they did what they're supposed todo, like that's exactly what you should
do, what you do, Andeven for him, I was saying to
somebody on the sidelines, that's Idon't remember what the down and distance was.
It was second down. I don'tknow what it was the distance,
but that to me was almost likeaggressive conservative PJ where I'm taking a shot

(17:03):
here and if I don't get it, I'm gonna run the ball take it.
It's like I knew what he wasgonna do, but at least they
did it there. And you throwit to your best player and your QB
puts the ball on them, andthat should be the ball game after you
get the gift turnover. But thenyou on third and four, when you
know you're just callers wide open potpass and you throw it one hundred and
twenty five an hour to It's likewhat in the world. Yeah, Or

(17:25):
even the first turnover, joh Joinergets a strip sack first play, Minnesota
takes a shot at the end zoneto a veteran receiver. He's got to
make that play. Yes, dropstwenty four to fourteen. You lose four
points. And it's just the analogyFleck used yesterday was Roulette. The way
he views it is, there's Ithink he said, what did you say,
ten to twelve plays? Yeah,in these games where they've all gone

(17:47):
against him, he goes, it'sit's either gonna go red or black at
the table. And you walk upto the table and it keeps hitting red,
red, red, and your thinkyourself, I can't keep going this
way. And that's the way hethinks about it, which I don't agree
with. In that Northwestern now Illinoisdebacle is and he he said, I
heard the one quote where he said, you keep going back to is it
coaching, scheme or personnel? Yes, it's all of it, Yes,

(18:12):
it is. It's all of them. I mean, because it's it's I
mean, you know, if Croomscatches that ball, you know, or
or calac Mass complete that pass,or if PJ doesn't run up the middle
on third nine, all those things. Yeah, And but that and that
is with all these teams, they'rethey're not good enough. They're all hovering

(18:33):
around five hundred, like it's goingto be whoever whoever gets more of those
random I guess not even random,whoever has more of those plays during a
game go their away. This yearis because every team right now is five
and four, four and five,two and three, three and two except
Iowa usked this last week. Willfive and four win the division? There's

(18:55):
still it's still a possible way.But I think we'll get to Iowa.
It's still a possibility. But thatwas a very very damaging loss. That's
the one. And we can getinto fan reaction, but I immediately got
three techs from people I'd say,are black guys, fans, you know,
die hards, airfleck people. That'sthe kind of loss that loses faith

(19:18):
in your fan base. It couldnot saying they're not going to go to
any more games. Nobody's calling forhim to be fired. Yeah that I
got just this. He loses thesame way. He only believes there's one
way to win a football game.There's just too many of those losses.
And this is in this twenty twentythree team. Isn't Mo Ibraham, it
isn't Tan or Morgan, it isn'tyour defense from last year. And yet

(19:42):
he continues to try and win footballgames. And I hear him to an
extent about the whole roulette thing.Yeah, especially on offense, where you
have guys that just need to makeplays, but you just you have to
learn that, especially as the BigTen continues to adapt and you get Washington,
Oregon, the usc US t lA. And these aren't going to

(20:02):
be the types of games you're goingto be playing in anymore. The let's
talk about the defense, because Ithink we'd all agree the defensive line has
been like nine tackles, their bestdefensive line and a couple you know,
ROSSI called them the most disruptive defensethey've had. I would agree. I
mean in terms of just playmakers andguys making splash plays. Yes, you

(20:27):
have a you know, a reallygood safety who you know he took a
bad angle on the one touchdown,but you know a good player. Well,
he said, he's the one whogot beat affirmed yesterday on the Isaiah
Williams play, which Western too.I have an Amora. That's the thing.
I mean, he's made splash plays, but he also I mean on

(20:47):
the first on the screen pass itwent fifty four yards, he took a
really poor angle on that. Yes, you know, a really poor angle.
Yeah. So there's been some playsthe other way against him too.
The plus minus I mean, I'mI'm assuming it's still very much play us,
but there's been minus. But theminuses have come in gigantic spots.
It's tough gigantic spots. I justI feel like they have enough talent.

(21:08):
They shouldn't be this inconsistent. Theywere just terrible. They're terrible in zone
pass coverage, and that's what theyelected to play in this game because I'm
assuming Rossie was terrified Baltmeyer's legs.Aaltmeyer had been their leading rush of their
starting quarterback. Yeah, led theled the conference in scramble yards, and
so they didn't play really a licka man. But they were just so

(21:32):
bad. And that's kind of thecommon theme too. When you go back
and watch the Northwestern game. Minnesotaplay a lot of zone more or less
outside of the Waally miss on thepost and go or stop and go for
eighty yards. They're just not onthe same page enough where all three touchdowns
or the three passing touchdowns were allout of trips, they were all in
zone coverage or even the last touchdownas much as an on nupe And why

(21:56):
are you sitting in cover two tome where you have two safeties leaving the
middle of the field open. Theirbest receiver is a slot receiver. Yeah,
he was second in the conference behindthat Marvin Harrison junior fella in receptions
receiving yards. He'd already had tencatches in the game. Yet you dial
up that call where you're asking alinebacker to carry the best player on the

(22:19):
field for them twenty five yards downthe field. How are you not sitting
back in quarters or something. Ijust to me that one was a I
was shaking my head and I'm stillshaking my head about ROSSI calling that specific
play only time out. Yeah,out of a timeout, which you called,
which I agreed with because you're shufflingguys in and out and get yourself

(22:41):
doge. Yeah for sure. Andby the way, you mentioned Altmeyer,
he wasn't in at that point becausewe haven't even mentioned that. You know,
on the third and eleven that wasa strip sack that could have been
recovered and ended the game. Hegot banged up, they had to call
a timeout. He didn't come back. They go to something called John Paddock,
who's I think a transfer from likeBall State who just loves his life

(23:03):
in the Big Ten. Can't evenbelieve he gets training tables and he goes
three for three three d starts,just absolute dimes and which is incredible.
It's I mean, we talked aboutthe Jordan Nuben game two weeks ago.
This is the I think his name'sJohn. The John Paddock game has like
a nine. He had a ninetynine point nine PFF grade because everything was

(23:26):
just unbelievable. But that's what Idon't understand is it's it's out of a
timeout. You've settled yourself down,you clearly know who the personnel is and
isn't. At that point, youknow who the only player is that can
hurt you on the field, Yetyou throw out a coverage where it's the
only one he can beat. That'swhat's been disappointing because that I mean,
I know we talk about the offenseand the play calling and everything, but
like I mean, the defensive coordinatoris making a million bucks and we loved

(23:52):
it. He's been great, yeah, I mean as he changed the program,
maybe more than anybody outside of PJ. Fleck, right, I would
say in twenty eighteen, and hedeserves all the credit in the world.
But this defense has been a disappointment. When you look at the defensive line
play that they've gotten this year,and Lindenberg in his second in his first
full game back, played out ofhis mind. Yeah, out of his
mind. And then you get Nubanwith a pick. You get it's just

(24:15):
the incan sit. They play sowell for eighty eighty five percent, but
those ten to fifteen percent, Yeah, it's just catastrophic. And they're not
good enough offensively to cover up forthose catastrophic mistakes, right because the offense
is making those. Yeah, andthey've had good enough. They've had games
where they've they've done exactly what theyneeded to do, like Iowa, like

(24:37):
Michigan State. I mean, wego down the list on some of those,
but it's I mean, you couldeven talk about North Carolina. You
know, as good as they are, there are opportunities there for them to
get off the field or keep themout of the ends. And the offense
did them no favors that day.We all know that Athan was terrible,
but you know they have They havea third down early in that game where
Drake May scrambles and throws a fiftyyard touchdown where the goose he's actually in

(25:00):
a good position, but he's shoot. Think about Deacon Hill in the opening
drive third and fourteen, he scramblesbut one of the you know, one
of the Rossie Collin cards. Histenure here has been that they've been good
on third down and to give upfor conversions on third down, yes to
what was I think the worst thirddown offense right in the Big ten now,
which is so funny to me,because that game felt like for the

(25:25):
first three quarters it, i shouldsay, in the second half, once
Illinois kind of got the lead,it felt like every bulam the game I've
ever watched where I'm just like,oh God, it's third and three and
they're gonna get three and a half, and they're gonna move the chains and
they're gonna chew the clock. Andthat's why that fumble was such a gift,
because I think they might have justrun the clock out. Quite frankly,

(25:47):
that was gonna be a defining play. It is funny though, once
they got their stud defensive lineman back, Yeah, how that game pivoted out?
Well we can. That's to circleback to Ethan, who was very
in the first half. I meanhe had receptions to five different dudes.
Yeah, two of different guys hadtouchdowns in the first half. Elijah Spencer
sighting and then he obviously had oneto Daniel Jackson as well. You could

(26:10):
tell Johnny Newton coming and whatever theywere doing, he was uncomfortab. They
had twelve yards in the second halfand into the fourth quarter they made that
made everybody uncomfortable. Was it justhim? Was it something that that did
differently? Is it a combination,It's all of it. But he was
not the same He was not thesame guy in the second half early,

(26:30):
and they couldn't run the ball eitherin the second half, which was a
problem. Second half numbers there ineighteen times for thirty two yards. First
half seventeen for sixty one. Theycouldn't run in it really in either half.
I mean that was also part ofthe story to me. It was
Illinois defensive line brought it to Minnesota'soffensive line. And yes, Johnny Newton's
tremendous and you saw that from thefirst drive he was back. Yeah,

(26:52):
three sacks eighth and on third down, but quick aside on that, it
was going by Quinn Carroll, right, Yeah, he came up the right
like we all know who Johnny Newtonis. Can we help out our guy?
Like on the first drive, he'sin there. Like I've seen them
do some unbelievable stuff protection wise,like when they essentially erased George Carloftis a

(27:14):
couple of years ago. There wasone time where there was three guys on
him and it was awesome, Like, I mean, it was so well
coached, so well scouted. Theytook a guy who literally ruins games and
was a first round pick, right, Wasn't he like a top for the
Chiefs? And like they erased him, he was completely a non factor.
Like the you know, the guy'sready to go, he plays seventy snaps

(27:36):
when he plays, he's one ofthe he's going to be a first round
pick. He's been sitting there,you know, like yeah, yeah,
Like what's you know, like he'sI'm trying to think, Yeah, I
don't know. He's sitting there readyto go. Yeah yeah, And he's
out there and now he's unleashed andwe're just gonna go. Yeah, Quinn,
you take him? Come on?You know when when past protecting is

(27:57):
not necessarily his strong suit, right, I mean, there's a reason they
wanted to move him inside. AndI'm not ripping him for it, but
it's it's like, how about wechipped great out there. Yeah, let's
let's chip the guy in the firstpossess. Let's maybe slow his role a
little bit, because I'm guessing hecame spur rinting out of the tunnel ready
to go. That one really botheredme. Burns he sorry to interrupt you
if you can't tell. I meanthey move Newton around, and so I'm

(28:18):
sure they saw who do I wantto attack on the Minnesota offensive line and
pass protection? Yeah, yeah,yeah, first down he was in the
middle. He got that tackle inthe first down. But I just remember
Tommy Olsen talking about one of theboss Nick or Joey, and I remember
that their plan was wherever he is, we are going the other way.
That literally was their plan. Likewe're not going to run at him,

(28:40):
We're not going to do pass proby him. If he's on this side,
we're going over here. That's howdumbed down it was. Like I
probably would have considered something like thatbecause he he came right out and just
the whole vibe because then trust me, down on the field, like you
could tell Ethan was like, Okay, where am I looking? Where is
he? What are we doing?Like they didn't have a good sense of

(29:00):
what was going on, no noise. Defensively, I thought first half he
looked very comfortable. He was greatin a rhythm. Yes, this is
what we've been wanting to see.And the second half, I don't know
if it was John Newton, ifit was you know, got rattled by
the touchdown drop. You know,they were better, We just never got
comfortable. They were horrible on firstand second down. I wrote about after

(29:22):
the game. They had seven thirddowns they didn't convert a single one.
Why because they were about eight yardsper average. Yeah, which Harbo acknowledged
with us last week. He goesthe Achilles heel of this offense right now
is off scheduled situations. I knowit. You know that the players know
it. So when you constantly can'trun the ball on early downs, they
didn't elect to go to a shortpassing game, and you're sitting third and

(29:44):
long where Johnny Newton and Keith Randolphcan pin their ears back, it's just
not going to go well. Soanything else you guys want to discuss about
this game before we take a pauseand Burns. Burns is a very serious
topic that he says many people areupset about to get to that that we
have to discuss anything we need totalk about regarding Gophers Illinois, the Illinois
tyler see the field again, No, I don't think. No, you

(30:07):
can't. You can't blayhim again.You can't and he knows it. Yeah,
I mean, And you know what'sso sick about that is I haven't
gone back and watched a lot ofthis game. I'm pretty sure as he
was about to get hit, hecovered up with two hands. He has
two hands on the ball and he'sfighting for extra yards and the guy just
rips it out and you can justsee that in the kid's eyes. I
don't. I don't know the guy. You know, I'm sure he came

(30:29):
here with high expectations. But youcan't blame he's unplayable. Yeah, you
can't play No, And you've saidit before, Burns. He didn't have
a fumbling problem with Western Michigan thatwe knew about. It's just like a
one percent outcome for him. AndI feel so bad for him. But
the reality is, you can't.You already are incredibly banged up in that
room. He was a guy thathad three kickoff return touchdowns at Western.

(30:52):
You can't play well, there's there'sno way you can play if you've built
your program on the ball. Isa program you can't keep putting a guy
after who fumbles, right, thenit goes against everything you stand for.
It's true, it's true. Andthey don't have the margin for air,
No that they to overcome all ofthat. The return game in general still
not good. You know, that'sputting it. Yeah, I mean just

(31:14):
the obviously Cassis is good even ifhe doesn't fumble. That you lose five
yards again, right, And Iwrote after the game, coming into that
game Chip they had lost seventy fiveyards of field position in eight games on
kickoff return with an offense that strugglesto score. Yeah. Correct, And
that's just the whole maddening part aboutit. Yeah, that is why it's
it doesn't make sense because it isit is visibly handcuffing them, Yeah,

(31:37):
and making it harder for blockers.Can't block the returnment, can't break a
tackle, and now they're not evenholding onto the ball. And at the
Coaches Show today you mentioned scheme,coaching, personnel, those that's the holy
trinity of when something's not going right, we have to talk about it.
I mean, we have to talkmore about them just go because it's you're

(31:57):
deficient there. That's the word forit. It's just not something and why
it was just okay with it.That's what's interesting or interesting, that's what's
tough. And like you say whenwhen you when Minnesota, you need to
win those margins. Yes, Imean you look at all these teams,
like I didn't see much of Iowain Northwestern. I'm guessing Iowa won the

(32:17):
special team's battle. They blocked apunt, yeah, which gave them great
field position, and that was theironly touchdown on the day was because they
were gifted on a block punt.You don't even need that, and then
they had a walk off fifty tothe yard. But I'm even talking about
the hidden yards, you know,the hidden yards. To me, I
always vividly remember Jerry Kill, oneof the I think it was first or
second year at at the U,and the Gophers pretty much outplayed Northwestern,

(32:42):
but they got crushed in the fieldposition game because Northwestern was pinning them deep.
Gophers weren't, you know, theydidn't have a very good return deal.
And I just remember Kill saying likespecial teams will be important here and
we have to win the hidden yardsagainst each day was awesome for Kill.
He was their special teams court.I think he was. I think he's
now the guy at Oklahoma. Okay. So that's why I lose my mind

(33:02):
all the time. When I seea punt returner not catch a ball and
in it rolls twenty yards, I'mlike, you don't have to return it,
but you have to catch it right, because it's like, especially if
a team has a hard time score, it's like, do you know how
valuable that yardage is? That justrolled down the field and writing did okay?
And that on Saturday. He's he'sgotten better at least in coming up

(33:22):
and getting the ball like he's notgoing to do anything with it. But
there's been because there were a coupleof times mid season where he was letting
it bounce and it was Curtains,it was over. But you've returned the
least amount of punts in the Bigten, And it's just how are you
in year seven and you don't havea guy that you feel comfortable in,
or you don't have a blocking schemein front of him that you feel comfortable

(33:43):
with. There's no excuse for thatin any capacity in your seven Speaking of
your seven. That's what we're goingto talk about when we come back.
Let's pause now to talk about ourgreat partner, Jack's Cafe, a Minneapolis
institution for just shy one hundred years. I'm gonna round up. It's ninety,
but we're gonna round up Jack's CafeJaxcafe dot com. And it is

(34:06):
holiday time, and what better placeyou've got family coming into town. Maybe
you've got friends coming into town forThanksgiving. Spend the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving
to Jack's Cafe. What a greatbar, what a great setup, what
a great spot, great food,great vibe, great everything. Reservations for
Breakfast with Santa December, second,ninth, and sixteenth also now available nine
through eleven. You can bring thekids. I know my kids want to

(34:28):
do that as well. We're workingthrough that with hockey. But it's always
a great time guys to go toJack's Cafe. But none better than the
time of year we're about to hiton the holiday season. Yeah, brunch,
take your wife to brunch. Talkingto me for everybody, Yeah,
well you and everybody meant you mightjust want to go solo. That is
a nice gesture on a husband's pathto wake up on a Sunday and say,

(34:51):
you know, let's go get brunchat Jack's. Let's put on our
Sunday best, like get a suit, you know now to wear suits Burnsy
could he's got nice new clothes nowwe've talked about since we share him at
the press conference, not we youshamed me, but it was collective is
a lot of people were saying that. I'm sure many people were saying this,
Yes, yeah, but I'll bethere next week to uh go to
dinner. I love the steak there. My wife loves the Walleye and she's

(35:15):
a Walleye snob. YEP. Imean it's whatever your occasion may be,
happy hour, date night, brunch, Santa Jack's Cafe in Northeast. The
boy I call Jax my son Jacksonearlier this week. All right, maybe
over the weekend, said dad,when can we go to Jack's? Actually
he wanted to go Sunday. Wewoke up and said, can we go
to Jacks today? And I said, you have swimming buddy. He's like,

(35:37):
I said, but I've looked atthe calendar and there's a couple of
Sundays where we don't have anything orwe don't have anything in the morning and
we will head over to Jack's andthey've obviously got the great party rooms as
well, for fifteen people to fourhundred people. They've got room for everybody.
Jackscafe dot com for your reservations.Check out the great menu Jaxcafe dot
com. All right, Burnsy,explain a lot. The direct quote Chip,

(36:05):
I think was a lot of peopleare mad about this. Yeah,
I'm clueless on this. I wantto hear this so you can. There's
the penultimate statement from Go for FootballSunday is I'm the middle segment guards it
gets an open, then he getsan ending by himself, and I believe
the last segment was you being upsetwith all the Texters about year seven?

(36:25):
Yes, and then that carried overto Go for Illustrated. It's carried over
into my mention as it really Ihaven't looked this week. Oh yes,
people are You're walcome for the clicks, so it helping your business getting people
talking. I understand being upset atthe season. What was the comment?
What do you say? So thecomment that I always get and you and
I have we've talked about this.It shouldn't happen in year seven? Yes,

(36:46):
Okay, and that to me isI don't understand that comment. I
don't understand the context of it.I don't understand what that means, like
just how long a coach is Liketo me, it's just, well,
this shouldn't happen in year seven.The year doesn't matter. It shouldn't happen
ever, you know what I mean? Like, that's what losing to Illinois,

(37:07):
losing to Northwestern the way that theydo it, like that could happen
in year one, That could happenin year ten, that happens. I
mean, we see guys that havebeen at places much longer like that they
lose the game. To me,it's just too easy of a crush to
go. Shouldn't happen in year seven? Like just say that that was an
annoying loss that shouldn't have happened.How did this happen? The special teams?

(37:28):
Things different burns eye. I thinkwhen you've allowed something to be this
bad for this long, that's adifferent discussion than just how does this happen
in year seven? Yeah, SoI had like three minutes to kill.
I knew that would get people going, and I'd gotten the text probably a
dozen times, like seven years ofthis, which also isn't factually true.
It's just this year they've had They'vehad disappointing losses before, obviously, but

(37:52):
it just that one just bothers me, because so what do we do with
that thing? Yeah? I thinkthe thing I always come back to is
the press conference with PJ saying we'renot going back to that. Now.
You know, he's caught up inthe motion. But I think we all
thought, probably well erroneously, thatthis thing was going to keep elevating,

(38:13):
elevate and elevating to where though,that's what I don't understand. Where you
don't have you don't lose the Northwesternthe way you did. You don't you
don't have the kind of losses thatMinnesota has experienced traditionally, And right or
wrong, if you think that's naive, that's fine. But when the coach
says, stop talking about that,stop talking about the same ogo fort stop

(38:36):
talking about those losses, We're notgoing to have any more of those,
and then you keep having them,it's like, no, wait a second,
you told us you're not going tohave any more of these. I
know we might have been naive ashell to think that what you said was
true. But you said we weren'tgoing back to those days, and you're
still having these losses. I thinkthat's where the happen to every I know.

(38:57):
But I think it's it's it's becausewhere they were in twenty nineteen and
PJ the emotion of it, andlook what we're building. Look where this
thing's going. Yeah, we're notgoing to have any you know, we're
not going back to the same Ogopherstuff. And we've seen these losses,
and so I think people were like, justifiably, like, we've seen this
before a lot. So I thinkthat's where the frustration comes in. What's

(39:22):
happening on the boards. I mean, I haven't been there this week.
You don't want to be there.It's not a good place, especially after
a loss like that, where there'sa lot of good place to it's not
a safe place right now. Yeah, there's a lot of emotion. There's
a lot of emotion going on withthe hardcores, but yeah, as there
should be. I mean that,I get that. That's that's why,
that's what being a fan is.Yeah, you should have strong feelings about

(39:45):
your program. But sorry, wellthey're to Chip's point, they're upset about
the way that they've lost in bothgames. Isn't necessarily one specific facet other
than it's the head coach's fingerprints allover it. The common themes in both
with not letting the offense be theoffense. It's Fleck trying to say we're
gonna win this thing on the groundwhen you're just incapable of doing that this

(40:07):
year. It's relying under defense whenthey've been poor, especially in these type
of situations this year and in yearseven. I think their gripe would be
why is he not adapting to whatthis team is? Where you noted and
we'll talk about on the radio showtoday. They haven't played sixty minutes of

(40:27):
complimentary football at any point like theymay have in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty
one. Why do you keep coachingthat way when that's not this team?
Now? Again, the people callingfor his head are insane to me.
Yeah, but yeah, I meanhe's not getting fired. Those are the
front well, and I don't thinkhe should. No, I just think
the gripe would be everyone wants tosee him like we all three do,

(40:50):
adapt, just adapt to what thisteam is. This team isn't twenty nineteen.
You can't run it with mo Ibraham, Shannon Brooks in Rodney Smith like
you could in twenty nineteen and you'renot throwing the you have George Nuban back
there. Well even you don't evenhave Bucky Irving or Kai Thomas right now,
you know, because like in twentyone, twenty one, yeah,
I mean again they had won.They had a bad loss to Illinois.

(41:12):
I think they kept them out ofthe Big ten West, but that was
another nine win seat. I meanthat was another solid season where I think
they beat Wisconsin, right, Imean, yeah, they had to have
it because they've beaten them two yearsin a row now. So there's that.
And I also think just the styleof play. I think, you
know, if you're winning, peopletolerate, yeah, boring football. When
you're not winning, it becomes anuisance and it becomes a dragon. I

(41:35):
mean I heard, you know anumber of people text me is like,
it's just it's hard to even watchthis. It's not entertaining. And I
get, but look, that's theBig ten ones, that's the big it
is. I mean they're gonna haveThey're all gonna have to come to some
type of reckoning or maybe they won't. Maybe we'll find out. We'll find
out what happened to you wonder ifif Pj's risk averse nature and just the
way he manages games with the runrun and being afraid of his past game

(42:01):
when things were wrong. I justthink fans have gotten tired of that.
And I almost think in this specificinstance, when we're talking about right now,
the worst thing that could have everhappened was the Josh Dobbs game for
him on Sunday. Why is that? I think it's the best thing.
It took attention off. Well,you're talking about Illinois. It's a brand
new quarterback who had been there fourdays, comes in and the offense looks

(42:24):
just fine because Koc is really goodat what he does. He's not afraid
to take I don't think that matters. It's the pros. I mean,
it's the now between the professional teamand the college team, and like we've
discussed on this podcast before, Ithink realistic expectations for college play versus NFL

(42:44):
play are very different. Do youthink PJ looks back at that third nine
and second guesses himself at all?No, you don't think so that's a
problem. I think he I don'tthink he would admit it. Well,
he's not gonna admit it. Yeah, but that's when he goes home in
night, does he No, youdon't at all. No, you don't

(43:04):
think at all. It doesn't changethe evidence. Would we believe that,
But it has changed. It changedwithin that game on third and four he
dropped back to throw it when alot a lot of people would say,
well, he talked about run itand make them call the time out and
then kick it as opposed to lettingthem keep their time out. I mean
there's in that specific instance he said, I'm going for it here. I'm
gonna trust my guy. Now,third and four is different than third and

(43:25):
nine. I get that, Butyou could even argue they would be more
defensible to try to run the ballon third and four. Well, what
you talked about was they ran theytried to run it out against iowhen they
got bailed out by the defense whosaved the day. He said, I
didn't want to do that again.In this instance. We tried to learn
from Iowa and we tried to gowin the game. Or like against Northwestern,
we ran it on that third downand then punted it and then Quentin

(43:45):
reading with the most confident, faircatch in the end zone, just an
incredible I wish I could feel thatconfidence one time in my life, even
though it was not even close.And then to look up and see the
long snapper face palming on his face, double hands up, Like what happened

(44:06):
to be that confident once in mylife? I'll never know. I don't
know. I mean, I justmean you, Like I said, those
are the kind of losses that shakethe confidence of a fan base. Yeah,
I could see that. I couldsee that. But that could happen
in year five. It could happenin year four, like in year three
where they're going, wow, Ihad a schedule like No, they were

(44:27):
just taking the season as it went. And I do think a big part
of this is the inability of thisteam to cash in and win the West
the last few years when it wasthere. No doubt, that's a big
party. And that's defensible of saying, because that could be part of whatever
the legacy is. Everything broke rightleading up to that game, stay and

(44:47):
then for them to lose in thatfashion, it's like, how do you
not say, well, here wego again. Yeah, I mean,
that's it's just mm hmm. It'sfair it's fair for fans to feel that
way. That way, Yeah,I I mean, I'm not arguing like
just to me, I just Idon't so what is that? Like,
where did we go with that?That's what I always wanted. So so
people want to move on, wewant to change it because you covered the

(45:10):
Mace era w and we had thesame exact conversations because I always get well,
people wanted to go to the nextlevel. I hate to break it
to everybody, there ain't a lotof levels to go at Minnesota, and
they're only and and one of themjust one of the levels, the Big
ten West. They're they're scraping thatoff the top. Like the levels are
the levels? Like what was theMace level? Would you say? Eight?

(45:32):
Eight? Nine? Wins? Categories? Yeah, categorist make losses,
continue to go to Bowl games,have a couple huge missed opportunities where that
particular year you felt like you couldhave had a run, right, yes,
Like that's the level I hate becauseI get that one too in its
body and he's like, well,I'm just kind of sick of being at
the same spot. Well, they'vewon nine games, three out of the
last four, Right, Okay,let's say they win seven this year.

(45:58):
That would include winning Iowa in wassconsinyour two biggest rivals. Like we're just
going to be sick of that.Like we're just gonna say, oh,
I don't know what's the next level. There isn't a next level consistently there
is. You know, you popup and you try to do it.
And that's what PJ really hasn't donetwenty nineteen is what it is. They
still didn't win the West. Now, that was a good Wisconsin team and

(46:20):
that was a good good for team. Yeah, it finished top ten in
the country. It's a good team. So there's not a lot of levels
you can go like because people goesPJ peaked probably, but that doesn't mean
you can't get back to that peakwhere it is or somewhat close to it.
And it's it's the not winning theWest. It's the nature of the
losses. Yeah, it's the waythe offense functions, it's the game management,

(46:42):
it's all those things. It's it'sjust the whole package that have So
but that's my question is what dowe do with that all that information?
Then? You know what I mean, Like we just go and go real
Like if you want to go upto that next level. Okay, go
find themselves a team like a tboone Pickens. Yes, well there's that
too, And that's I'm not eventalking about that stuff now because people don't

(47:05):
want to hear it even though it'sreality. Like about nil and everything that
goes with that now, like that'sjust straight up reality. I had conversations
yesterday about some basketball stuff going onthat like you can't even believe or even
like, guys, you know,the money just to visit that is legitimately
happening, Like, hey, I'llcome visit you. You got to pay
me ten grand, Like that's happening. It just happens in McDonald's bags down

(47:29):
and not getting Yeah, i meanChip knows, Yeah, so we'll leave
this bag right here, Like that'snot even that is absolutely part of the
discussion. But here in Minnesota wecan't talk about that because that's an excuse
to people, which is mind bogglingto me. But like that's where I
don't know, Like you said,yeah, if you want, if you
can have someone straight up fund yourprogram, then then you can get to

(47:50):
whatever level you want to get to. But yep, that's just it's never
been realistic here, and I'm notsaying this means, Hey, it's okay
to to lose these games. It'sokay to melt out against Northwestern. That's
what people think. It's like justdefending how things win. It's like,
that's not what I'm saying. Ijust don't like the knee jerk the other
way of Man, we've been watchingthis for seven years, No, we
not really. I mean there's beenspecific times over the years where they've they've

(48:15):
lost games they should have won.PJ would probably argue, yeah, but
my style also won some games thatmaybe we wouldn't have won in the past
because I did this. So Idon't know. I don't really know what
I'm arguing. It's just I'm passionate. That's what people want to hear,
you know. I don't even knowif I'm passionate. I just get annoyed
because it's like, look around thelandscape, like these things happen at a
lot of different places. I don'tknow anything else you want to add on

(48:37):
that, But how do they getto the I mean, I doesn't see
you for two weeks and he onlysees you on Tuesdays. Uh, just
the I understand the emotion that camepouring out of the fan base on Saturday.

(48:59):
Yeah, for sure. The frustration, the anger, the disappointment,
the bewilderment. Yeah, all thatI mean, because it's that that loss
was inexcusable. Sorry, So thenwhat do we do? Well, you
gotta go win in the last LaFayette as an underdog apparently, Yeah,
which surprises me considering produced lost sixof their last seven and their last four

(49:21):
nothing. At this point, it'slike whoever's playing at home should be I
mean, every somebody said that thatyou know, these teams are going to
score twenty five to thirty points,you can't have big spread. Well,
then it's going to be close.All these games are going to be seventeen
fourteen, which is the other thingI'll say about the last real quick like,
and because everybody likes to say it'sterrible and it sucks, it does.
I don't agree with that. Youthink it's good. I don't think

(49:43):
it's good. I think every team'sjust okay. I think everything is bad.
Well, we'll see, because halfof them are gonna go to ball
games, half of them are gonnalike we all say, well, they
all suck, and they all dothis. Maybe we'll see because most of
the years I'm watching these ball gamesand the Big Tens winning most of them,
and then they're they're recruiting they allpretty well. So maybe I just
don't think there's a great team becauselike, look at the East we talked

(50:07):
about this last week, there's nota great team not named Michigan, Ohio
State, Penn State, and we'retalking about over half the East. Yeah,
and everybody's just okay, who andwhat? You know, because like
every league's got, you know,two really good teams. I don't know.
I mean, we could go anhour and break down team by team
by team. I just think there'snot a lot of difference between I think

(50:28):
the Big Ten West has teams probablyfrom like twenty five to forty five,
like five of them. Yeah,I think I think it has really poor
quarterback play. That's fair. Noone's disagreeing with that. Really poor.
They're just not bad teams. They'rejust all okay teams. It's just in
your mind. I think Chip it'sit's I mean, he had to watch

(50:50):
Iowa Wisconsin in person and he's stillwatch it's absolutely ruin ruined for college.
All Right, Well, let's talkabout a team in the Big Ten East
here to wrap up that has beenaccused of cheating and Mike get punished for
it here in the next few days, I need to pull up this story.

(51:12):
As I pull up here, we'retalking, of course, about the
University of Michigan and the Big Ten. After apparently a contentious conference call with
the coaches on Wednesday and a similarconference call last Thursday that I asked Mark
Coyle about on Saturday on the pregameshow, the Big Ten formally notified Michigan
that it could be facing disciplinary actionfrom the league. This, according to

(51:34):
an ESPN story from last night.The letter sent to Michigan as part of
the Big Ten Sportsmanship Policy, whichrequires a notice of disciplinary action in the
event it becomes clear that an institutionis likely to be subjected to disciplinary action.
NCAA is, of course investigating Michiganfor a legal off campus scouting and
signal stealing, but Big Ten CommissionerTony Petitti has the authority to impose discipline
under the sportsmanship policy before the linkthe NCAA investigative and infractions process concludes.

(52:00):
Michigan has until Wednesday to respond tothe Big Ten by the way they're ad
word. Manual's part of the collegeFootball Playoff Committee. He's not going to
that this week. He's staying backat ann Arbord to handle this deal.
But I think what I saw wasthe big ten. At any point could
say Jim Harbaugh is suspended for twogames. I think is the max.
But you can tell, as wetalked about before we hit record, guys,

(52:22):
when I asked Mark Coyle about it, and he called it the Michigan
situation disappointing. If you translate thatto coil language, that's about as volatile
as screen. That's his going.Everyone should be fired or suspended if I'm
translating. If I went to Google, translating, went coil to because he
usually doesn't go out on those typesof limbs, and it's not even that

(52:43):
much of a limb. But thepeople are pissed about this, and by
the way, I am too.Yeah, go ahead, here's the thing.
You're Michigan. You already have youknow, all the advantages in the
world in terms of everything you need. Yep. And so there's a uh
take this removed. There is probablysome envy or jealousy within the Big Tans,

(53:06):
like what what do we used tohear they're born so, and then
you had this cheating scandal and thedepth that they went to to do this.
I think everybody has the right tobe angry, and I would have
loved to hear that phone call withcoaches and ads. Incredible, But I
want to see I apologize for notreading the story. But it sounds like

(53:28):
Michigan's gonna mount the defense of otherteams were doing it too, or something
something like that. I mean,I think the point that we'll get to
when we come back and talk nextweek, if Harbaugh has been disciplined or
whatever it is, I would beabsolutely to use the the words of your
three to six thirty co hosts there, gob smacked. We do dob smacks

(53:50):
now for Josh Dobbs. Look atyou? Is him? Yeah? I
just enjoyed it. I'd be gobsmackedthat Harby actually he's actually gets this because
then they're going to counter sue andthen it's going to go into courts,
and then the legal system takes forever, and by then Harbaugh is going to
be in the NFL and Michigan's goingto get whatever they get in twenty twenty
four. But even from talking withsome people on within the Gopher a football

(54:14):
building. I mean, there's alot of speculation now, and it's easy
to grasp at these straws. Buton the first drive from Minnesota, they
were using signals, and if yougo back and watch the play, that
corner breaks before eight and even throwsthe ball. And so now they're got
their minds wrapped up all that,and so then they switched to if you'll

(54:34):
notice eight and then has a wristbandthe rest of the game. Yeah,
one, As I told you,I mean, there was rumblings about this
from what I've heard going back tothe Northwestern game, that the Michigan thing
was coming down everybody. I mean, we talked about the the the Chiano
stuff, you know when they wereplaying at the big House that was the
Northwestern weekend. Yeah, there wasthe thing. Everybody was in on this

(54:55):
deal. And here's one thing thatjust drives me insane that I'm so sick
of hearing about. And I heardit again this morning. I think it
was RG three on Greene Show sayingnow he to his credit, says if
Michigan broke rules, they should facepenalties. But I've seen this too many
times before that he said, Ihonestly don't think sign stealing is that big

(55:17):
of a deal, and it doesn'tgive that big of an advantage. And
I've heard this so many times andI just want to scream into the ether,
to use Ryan Burns's beloved parlance,that doesn't matter. You have rules
that you all agree on. Theyare sending this clown or his people to

(55:38):
big ten stadiums all over the UpperMidwest, well now coast to coast.
You're sending them to Georgia like theyare actively cheating. They're doing something they're
not allowed to do. We can'tjust go. But how much does that
really help? And then Dominique Foxworth, to his credit, goes, if
you know what the play is,it helps, dude. Well, I'm

(55:58):
just so sick of that. Whileian steeling is really not that big a
deal if you can do it onthe field, no, it's about a
systematic, literally going around every possiblerule. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous
that anybody would try to even defendthis for a minute or say that it's
not that big a deal. Well, I mean, he obviously knows more
about football than I do. Butif it's not that big a deal?

(56:19):
Then why are they doing it?Why are they having this elaborate of a
thing correct to get that? Imean, it obviously is a big deal.
It obviously and it's obviously elaborate becausethis is so expansive at this point,
it obviously helps them or they wouldn'tbe doing it, they wouldn't risk
all this what they put themselves into. So I can't believe it doesn't matter.
I mean, if you know whata team's gonna run, how does
that not help you? Does thisfinally force the NCAA in twenty twenty four

(56:45):
to have the green dot and thehelmet? It might? And that bothers
me too, because it's also like, because that's the other thing, is
well we should have this already.Sure, maybe that's not the discussion.
Discussion right now is cheating? Yep. And I'm a romantic enough to believe
that competition is supposed to be fair, especially actually football. I know where
it's me versus you, it's Releven versus your eleven and everything on,

(57:06):
especially at Michigan where your Michigan menand you're honorable and blah blah blah.
Like that's what really bothers me isI'm a romantic enough to believe that competition
is just supposed to be fair,equitable, finish beat me. That's it.
I mean, that's what sports aresupposed to be about. Well,
I do agree with Burnsy that Iwonder if Michigan's gonna try to muddy the
waters enough with their defense. Theypush this off until they can try to

(57:27):
win a national title, and thenHarball will go away. Right, You're
in the off season, and thentwenty twenty four, Michigan is going to
be We'll see Harbau. Harbaugh won'tbe there, McCarthy won't be there.
They'll they'll still be Michigan. I'mnot saying that they won't be, but
there's going to be sanctions from thistime. Will be at the Big House
next year. I think we goto the Big House next year. You're
right. I just if anybody's lookingfor immediate resolution within forty eight hours of

(57:52):
this podcast, if and when theBig Ten tries to suspend Harbaugh for two
games, Michigan's gonna counter this thing'sgonna get caught up in the course the
legal system, and he's going tobe there through the bowl games. Yeah,
national championship games. If they canget through Penn State this weekend and
then Ohio State in a few weeks. But then in the new Big Ten
commission, you have to do somethingwhen you have everybody else, Yeah,

(58:15):
thirteen other schools screaming at you todo something. You can't be like,
nah, I'm gonna let this playout. Well, because I've heard also
you gotta let the process play out, and I would say yes. However,
it's also been like a month,So what are we waiting for here?
And I think that's the Big Tens? The other coaches and a wins.
When do we do something? Yeah, because because it is true,

(58:36):
I mean, you don't want toset a precedent. We'll just suspend you
because we think something went wrong,like you do have to have because let's
say, let's say all of thisis it's a one man show and nobody
knew anything, and let's just sayhypothetically, yeah, okay, like that,
that's what I do understand that pointof it of let's not jump to
any conclusions. But I would alsocounter and say, we've been talking about

(58:59):
this for a month now. Itshould be pretty easy to figure out who
did what and guess what if Michigan'snot cooperating, then that's all I need
to know. If you're not goingto cooperate with my investigation and I can't
talk to this guy and I can'ttalk to Coach Harbor about it, then
sorry, you have to cooperate withus or I am suspending. And you
know, darn will every school that'splayed him has provided evidence or information to

(59:19):
the Big Ten and like, thisis what this He got tickets here if
you have a video of him.It took seven minutes for us to know
that thirteen of the fourteen schools hadthis guy in their table. You know,
he talked to all of them.Yes, so it shouldn't take that
long to figure this out. Sothat's where I think there. I agree
you can't just go do this,but I agree with the coaches and the
athletics directors that are saying, whatare we doing about this? Yeah,

(59:42):
because it's obvious this is something thatwas not on the up and up that
nobody else is doing. That's theother thing. A lot of people steal
signs, not like this. Nowwith a quasi Navy seal who has a
sixty a six hundred page Michigan manifestoI mean, this guy's a s shows
up on Central. That's the otherthing. Believe he just shows up like
he's just a spy. Or theformer wide receivers coach head coach Jim McIlwain

(01:00:06):
maybe helped him out and the scienceSteeler just showed up. Have you ever
tried to get on the college footballsideline? That's that whole part. The
whole Central Michigan thing is wild.On a Friday night, Labor Day weekend.
Ad he's got to sign off onit. The head coaches got to
sign off on a visiting bench pass. I don't even get a visiting bench
pass. And I can stand onthe visiting bench just because I know the
people, but I don't have thatpass. Like those things are coveted and

(01:00:28):
hard to get, and you know, stay up there five feet from the
head coach in the gear in conspicuoussunglasses. This whole thing is preposterous.
I just want to talk to theguy. I mostly I want the investigation
because I want to know. Iwant to know more about it is going
to be incredible. It's got tobe like five parts. It's gonna be
a Netflix documentary. I watched them. Did you watch the one where the

(01:00:50):
people that rigged the McDonald's monopoly dealno like to win the million dollars like
twenty years ago. I never finishedit. I need to go back and
see what happened. But that waslike a ten part and they had to
get the FBI involved, and itwas intricate because those things were under lock
and key. Yeah, you knowthe millionaire little you know things that you
pulled off your twenty ounce coke man. All right, anything else? This
has been a lively fun Yeah,this has been good. Anything else?

(01:01:13):
We need to discuss, Perdue.Can you give us a sixty second snapshot?
You're you're the best preview guy herebecause you do and by that I
mean you do the most work out. Well, this is your role.
You work for Gopher, ill Iknow you need to do all these things.
Purdue's last four in a row,but they've got a couple of pretty
good ed rushers. It's eighty percentthe same defense from last week. Because

(01:01:36):
remember Ryan Walters was the Illinois defensivecoordinator last year. He runs the thing
at Purdue. Uh. They gota pretty good passing quarterback for Chip and
Hudson Card who's probably the most giftedof the big ten passers. I mean
it to me, it's just toyou guys's point. I guess they're at
home. Which Minnesota team shows up. Minnesota struggled against a good passing quarterback

(01:01:59):
as we've seen, so we'll seeif the pass rush can get home,
and if not, there goes anychance at Indianapolis. Well, you know
we've missed Chips Coggins the last fewweeks. We've also missed Darius Taylor.
Remember him, like, is whatdo we think? Is he going to
play? Is he going to bearound? I mean, he'd be nice.

(01:02:20):
It'd be nice to have a guylike that back, especially with Look
the Jordan Nuban story is great.Yes, and Zach Evans played last week.
I still think he's banged up,but having someone like Darius Taylor back
certainly helps. Re h anything,do you think we've heard anything? Well,
you you hear stuff. I knowyou're not going to get it from

(01:02:42):
the head. I think he's goingto be back sooner than later. But
the question is is sooner perdue orare they just going to save him for
the Wisconsin game at that point?Man, I hope it's Purdue. It's
November, Burns. I hope Iget three games left. Yeah, yeah,
because he he'd be helpful because there'ssome well, especially because you get
Brevin showing a pulse. Yeah,Daniel Jackson continuing to ball out. So

(01:03:06):
right, it'd be nice to seethe full offense, or at least what
we have, what they have.Correct. All right, Well, good
show, guys, Good to seeboth of you. Anybody going to Purdue
you're not going, You're not going? All right, Well that's my role.
I'll be there. I will bethere. I don't know what the
weather is. Nothing like West Lafaiettaon November Saturday. Nothing. People ask

(01:03:28):
me excited about La and Washington andEugene. Sure, am you want to
talk about the Big ten West.I've been through it now for almost a
decade. I think we've had theWest started with legends and leaders. The
West has been for a minute now. So I've taken enough tours through the
Big ten West. I'm ready tocheck out the Big ten West West,
if that makes sense. Rose BowlOctober twelfth. Yeah, we got the

(01:03:51):
schedule. We'll talk about that maybenext week. Yeah, because there's some
interesting nuggets there as well. Allright, he's Chips Goggins he's Ryan Burns.
I'm justin guard. Thanks everybody forlistening, and please tell a go
for fanfriend in your life that weare here or a Big ten fan friend
in your life that we're here everysingle week. Don't forget to subscribe,
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(01:04:15):
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(01:04:38):
will talk to you next week onthe Parent of Spare podcast