Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary

🚨 Paranormal Lens Podcast – Season 2, Episode 45: Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary 🚨

This week on Paranormal Lens, host Jamie Widener delves into the dark and storied past of Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary—one of Tennessee's most infamous and haunted prisons. From its roots as a maximum-security facility for the state’s most dangerous criminals to its eerie reputation in the paranormal community, Brushy Mountain holds secrets behind every iron bar and crumbling wall.

Jamie takes us through the chilling history, legendary escapes, and ghostly encounters tied to the prison grounds. Could the spirits of former inmates still linger within its stone walls?

Joining Jamie is co-host Chad Thomas, who brings his perspective and curiosity as they explore reports of unexplained activity and tales that blur the line between history and the supernatural.

🎧 Streaming on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major platforms!

Lock in with us for a night of history, hauntings, and harrowing tales from one of the South’s most unsettling sites. 🏚️👻🔒

Episode Transcript

(00:39):
The. Good evening.
Welcome to this week's episode of the Paranormal Lens Podcast
presented by Jotnik's Paranormal.
I am Jamie Weidner. I'll be your host for the
evening along with Chad Thomas, as always.

(01:01):
Mr. Thomas, how are you, Sir? I'm good.
Jamie, how are you? Busy.
Like busy, busy. You know, we have a lot going
on. My profession has a lot going
on. It's a busy season and then, you
know, we had a kid graduate and and apparently everybody has to
have a. Party, right?
There was a kid who graduated. There was a kid who graduated

(01:22):
and I have proof of that and afterwards, then there's this
party, there's that party. Like there's all these kids are
social butterflies all of a sudden.
It's amazing. More than when they were in
school. I know, right?
Hustling and hustling to get them everywhere.
Another two rounds coming up this weekend and maybe we're
done, I don't know. I I think, I think, yeah, I, I

(01:43):
took him to two last weekend andthese kids stay up real late,
Jamie, They do. It's like, it's like they're
paranormal investigators. I 1:00 is when I was going to
pick Zoe up the other night, so.Get out.
Wow, that's great. I mean, not great because it's
1:00. We're old people, but.
Yeah, but anyway, it's good and I'm glad I.

(02:04):
Remember these days so vaguely anyway.
It's important to spend time with friends yes you know these
are the bonds that you you you you you make and you keep for a
long time that's this this groupof friends that I I can see just
being that long term, you know these three or four people that
they're one of these parties forso they.
They come a long way together and they they're certainly not

(02:26):
done yet. I agree.
So, so anyway, yeah, that's it'sbeen busy.
I got the same thing, you know, work had taken hiatus for a
couple, couple weeks and now allof a sudden it's like, Oh yeah,
we just, we don't want to be slow.
We want to be, to have several things going on again.
So that's where we're at. The business likes to pay bills,
right? Yeah.
Yeah, it was fine. You know, it's that time of

(02:47):
year, so we'll make the hay. Wind.
The sun shines. So anyway and.
You know, we haven't we haven't done anything paranormally in a
while. So you know that we had a we
have a little bit of a break in our schedule with
investigations. We'll talk about what we got
coming up here with the end of the episode, but you know, a
little bit off. But you know, we're we're still

(03:08):
like a couple weeks out from actually having a public event
again. So it's it's like it's nice.
There's this lawless thing, but also there's kind of like we're
starting, I'm starting to twitcha little bit, you know, yeah,
let's get to it. So I don't know.
So we probably should talk aboutsome paranormal stuff instead.
It's a good thing then that we've got this so we can just
keep in touch with the paranormal stuff.

(03:30):
Yeah, you know, it it it's, it'sexactly that.
This is our gap in between. So we'll fill it up.
Hey, there's Jim. Good evening.
How? Hi, guys.
I was sad last week. Well, we were on Jim, but we
weren't on Facebook. I'm sorry for that.
We had a, we had a bit of a technical glitch.
It was there and then it was gone and we couldn't get it back
during the episode. So it is available on YouTube if

(03:53):
you get that way to follow up onthe episode and on the all the
streaming. So actually it is on Facebook
now I guess. Because I stayed up streamed it
afterwards. We caught up to it, but it just
wasn't there in the moment. They didn't like us.
Apparently Chad didn't pay the bill.
I didn't pay the bill. It's probably more like it, but
yeah, thanks. Thanks for noticing at least.

(04:14):
Sorry, I missed you too. So and Birdsmith isn't and he's
not still having withdrawals. Yeah, I know, right.
And well, we have, we have the Lynches and I and a few others
are heading north in a few weeks.
So we'll get our, we'll talk about that later.
But we're, you know, we're goingto get, get our get our groove
on up in New England. So but tonight, tonight,

(04:38):
tonight, we are here to talk about a place that has
fascinated me for quite a while,something I became aware of a
few many years ago now, But maybe I shouldn't say many,
maybe four or five years ago, which is many, I guess,
depending on your your span. But it is a place called Brushy
Mountain State Penitentiary. Chad, have you heard of this
before? I I have not so.

(05:00):
Oh cool. Well, good.
I'm learning with the group here.
I'll educate you. So where are we in the world?
We are at 9182 Highway 116 in Petros, Tennessee.
Now, where is that? It's about an hour northwest of
Knoxville. So eastern Tennessee, up in the
mountains and, you know, in the foothills at least.

(05:22):
And it is one of the most notorious prisons the Volunteer
State has ever created. Built in 1896 for a population
of around 600 inmates, Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary was
more than a Correctional Facility for some of Tennessee's
worst inmates or criminals. I'm sorry.
It was also a labor camp to minefor coal.

(05:44):
The prison was a direct result of Greek War, which was a
violent and bloody labor disputenearby Anderson County.
The dispute started when local coal miners went on strike.
And who could blame them? The mining companies provided
housing due to the generally remote locations.
Coal was found because they owned the housing.
The mining firms also opened company stores where food,

(06:04):
clothing, and all other essential goods were sold at
highly inflated prices. Given the meager wages earned in
the mines when the rent and store debt was paid, there was
very little left for the miners and their families from doing
such dangerous work. Considering the mining companies
were getting rich and the workers were being put further
into debt and the the miners opted to strike in midwinter

(06:26):
when the demand for coal was at its highest.
This reminds me of a song, Jamieit.
Does actually. I I, I owe my soul to the
company store or something like that.
Yep. Are you gonna sing it?
No, I'm not going to sing it. No, no.
OK. Copyright difference, you know.
That's true. Off air, we'll do it.
OK, so during the strike, the state of Tennessee leased

(06:47):
inmates from other prisons to help in the mines to keep the
coal flowing. While seemingly a good idea,
this action led to even more violence and seeing an
opportunity to cash in on the rich coal veins in the area, the
Tennessee legislator voted to build the penitentiary, which
opened again in 19/18/96. Given the steady dependence on

(07:08):
coal, a solution to expand the mining capacity was to house
more inmates. By the time the Great Depression
came, the prison was home to more than 970 men, or just above
50% of its original capacity. But let's look back a bit.
The original prison was a stick built structure built by the
prisoners along with a rail spurto move coal and connect with

(07:30):
the ever growing rail system across Tennessee and the rest of
America. Life of Brushy Mountain was hard
for the inmates from the start with violence, dangerous working
conditions in the mines. Mind you there was no OSHA back
then and diseases such as tuberculosis, typhoid fever,
pneumonia and syphilis running rampant.
It goes without saying that there wasn't any real medical

(07:51):
care which hindered the output of many of the workers in the
mines and insulting injury or maybe better said injury to
injury. Many inmates were severely
beaten for under producing in the mines, leading to untold
deaths. Overcrowding became so bad that
the original wooden structures were literally crumbling around
the inmates, and it was a bit ofa miracle that the prison never

(08:13):
went up in flames during the winter months where men crowded
around a few stoves found on each floor.
Many likened the condition at Brushy Mountain to those told of
the Soviet gulags in Siberia. Apparently the state of
Tennessee did not appreciate such comparisons and plans were
made in 1931 to build a new prison made of reinforced

(08:35):
concrete. In traditional Tennessee penal
system fashion, the inmates wentfrom digging coal to digging
sandstone from local quarry to use in the construction.
The new prison was constructed in the design of a Greek cross,
was 4 floors high, had battlements, and by the time it
opened in 1934 was a closed in a18 foot Stonewall.

(08:58):
For a while, things were better.New facilities were safer, much
more sanitary, and given that itwas designed in the shape of a
cross, it perceptually at least,allowed for the inmates to have
a path to redemption. Let's jump ahead.
Since the prison was created to have a prison labor mine coal,
the prisoner's mine coal, sorry,it shouldn't surprise anyone

(09:20):
that this existence went on through the 1960s.
In fact, if an inmate was sent to Brushy Mountain, he knew he
was going to have to work the mines.
Up until 1969, the prison was classified as maximum security,
but in 69100 beds were added forthose with less offenses and a
new accommodations created outside the main prison

(09:40):
building. These inmates were part of a
work release initiative where they help positions in the local
community, including serving as volunteers for the nearby
Petra's Voluntary Fire Department up and through 1994.
Even with this transition, Brushy Mountain was still the
last stop for the worst criminals in the Tennessee penal
system. It was also where inmates from

(10:01):
other prisons were sent when they were no longer welcome at
their former facility. Brushy Mountain finally closed
for good in 2009, but before it did, here a key few a few key
events. First, the mines were closed in
1967 after a significant accident killed 2 inmates,
bringing attention to the harsh conditions and unsafe labor

(10:23):
practices at the prison. Interestingly, Warden Lake
Russell cited a loss of revenue in the mines as a reason for the
closure, completely dismissing any issue with the working
conditions. The mines had to be profitable
in order for them to operate, and they were losing money.
In 1972, the prison guards went on strike, demanding increased

(10:43):
security at the prison. As a result, the prison
literally was closed until 1976,with most inmates transferred to
another maximum security facility in Nashville.
When the prison reopened, another issue arose.
Tensions between white and blackinmates were challenging a
system that wasn't capable of handling it.
The situation came to a head in 1982 when 7 white inmates took

(11:07):
guards hostage at knifepoint. The guards weapons were taken
and when 4 black inmates were found in the cell, the white
inmates opened fire, killing twomen.
Excuse me, While there were somevery bad people in prison at
Brushy Mountain, there's one youmay recall.
After confessing to the assassination of Reverend

(11:27):
Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Junior in 1969, James Earl
Ray was sentenced to Brushy Mountain in 1971.
He managed to remove a cinder block from the wall of his cell,
and if it weren't for the fact that it LED into the steam
plant, he may have escaped. Undaunted, he did escape in 1977
along with six other inmates using a 16 foot ladder made of

(11:50):
salvage pipe. Now, Chad, how does one hide
that kind of thing? That's a good question. 16 foot
pipe ladder. Come on, they can do better.
Ray was captured 2 days later, having only made it about 8
miles from the prison. Lastly, in 1981, Ray was stabbed
21 times by three inmates, some say as revenge for killing him.

(12:13):
OK, surprisingly he survived. For all the harshness and evil,
there were a few bright spots. In 1982, on the site of the old
segregated bath house, the Brushy Chapel was built.
While no exact records exist, itis believed that over 1000
inmates were baptized at the Chapel.

(12:35):
Some may call it jailhouse religion, where inmates believed
if they found God and enacted the part, they might get an
early release. There were many who truly
repented their sins. I love this one.
In the early 1970s, a young deerfell from the Cliff into the
prison yard. When he was found by the
inmates, they decided to keep the deer as a pet and named him

(12:56):
Geronimo since he literally jumped into the prison.
Eventually Geronimo was tamed and it was said that he enjoyed
chewing on unlit cigarettes, proving that everyone smoked in
the 70s. To wrap up the history of Brushy
Mountain, I came across this quote credited to an unnamed
assistant Warren Warden. Sorry, that made me pause.

(13:19):
Quote, we get the hard to manageinmates.
That's the function of this institution.
It's the end of the line. They're serving long sentences
and they're in close confinement.
You do that to a bunch of rats and they start chewing on each
other. Humans are not so different.
End Quote. Something to say there,

(13:41):
definitely. Yeah, So Brushy Mountain is a
bad place. It is the worst of the worst.
Criminals, violent offenders. Violence was common.
There are stories of people being murdered in the cafeteria

(14:02):
on a regular basis. There are, you know, the laundry
facilities, You know, where anywhere where people could be
potentially left or alone with someone they may have a
grievance with, violence occurred.
And it didn't seem regardless who the warden was or who the
guards were, it just continued. And and that leads me to believe
some of it was acceptable and orallowed.

(14:25):
And I'll, I'll get to that just a bit, but.
Look, look the other way. Sort.
Of the other way, right, there might be some payouts happening,
there might be some favoritism happening.
It it's just, it's it's amazing and and it's an era as well.
You know, the time and the placethat it was, you know, Tennessee
and being a southern state, there was definitely color

(14:45):
violence happening, you know, whites and blacks not getting
along and it and it just led to,you know, already heightened
criminality happening that theseare already violent people and
they don't stop just because they're behind a jail cell.
So that leads us to paranormal stuff, right?
I hope so. Yeah, right.

(15:06):
So let's talk about some of the paranormal claims.
So there's there's a yeah, the traditional things.
There are disembodied voices andscreams.
There are strange animal sounds where there are no animals in on
the property. There are shadow figures, cold
spots, the sound of footsteps slamming doors, cells and
otherwise. And people are touched,

(15:26):
scratched and some even choked. Let's explore a few of the
claims. The spirit of an inmate named
Jack Jett is believed to still inhabit the prison.
Jack was a little person and an inmate with a reputation for
snitching on other inmates. And Chad, you know we all know
what snitches get right? Snitches get stitches.

(15:48):
Yeah, this is a little bit worsethan that.
The story goes that one night hewas making a call to his mother
on a communal phone when he was stabbed 19 times in the neck and
back, bleeding out before help could arrive.
Imagine this happening during a call to your mother.
Inmates reported seeing and afterwards, inmates reported

(16:08):
seeing the phone receiver lifting off its cradle and being
returned by unseen hands and a significant cold spot in that
space. Perhaps Jack is still trying to
call his mom. Second, the prison yard was
often run by a death row inmate named Leroy.
Leroy was a classic bully, tormenting many of his fellow

(16:29):
inmates until one day one of hisvictims took his revenge when
Leroy's back was turned in the exercise area and stabbed him
while he was doing push ups. Leroy died of the wounds.
Investigators asking if anyone is in this area have captured an
EVP of someone softly saying Leroy.
Other investigators have reported being scratched in this

(16:50):
area. Maybe Leroy is still lurking
around the yard looking for victims.
An investigator is said to have played the entirety of MLK's
famous I Have a Dream speech in James James Earl Ray's old cell
and claims to have captured an EVP saying hush.

(17:11):
Interesting. Another claim is that during the
showing of a movie in the auditorium, an inmate had his
throat slit with a handmade knife.
Instead of taking the victim formedical attention, the guards,
likely in cahoots with the attacker, placed the inmate in a
padded cell without any medical attention, where he slowly bled
to death. Since then, there are reports of

(17:32):
a dark apparition crawling around the floor of the
auditorium on all fours. The spirit has aptly been named
the Creeper. One of the black men killed by
the gang of white men was named James.
The story goes that if you leavea lit cigarette in the cell he
died in, he will take drags fromit and even leave puffs of smoke
hanging in the air like we do with the living when exhaling in

(17:56):
the the cherry of the the bulb of the cigarette is actually
appeared to be, you know, brightening as if someone were
taking a drag as well. The smokers, The smokers in the
room get what I mean. The Brushy Chapel has been an
area with significant EVP recordings, mainly on many
unsettling for a Chapel such as Hell, Beast and Pain.

(18:19):
When the prison was still open, inmates claimed to have seen
objects move or float across theroom and to experience
unexplainable cold spots even inthe middle of summer.
So much so that inmates would often joke they were willing to
brave the ghost to get cooled off amid the heat of a Tennessee
summer. I don't blame them.
You're in Tennessee in the summertime.

(18:42):
No, I have. Yeah, actually I have.
It's. It's not fun.
Well, it is. It sounds where you are, but
also photographs taken in the Chapel often capture orbs.
I got my pledge. Got your pledge?
We're good to go. Here's Dave when we need them.
As in all prisons, Brushy Mountain has a solitary
confinement area. What there is known as the

(19:02):
Whole. There are three cells that have
no windows and prisoners were often put there for extensive
periods, leaving many in poor physical and or mental health.
When finally released. This area has been noted as a
location where orbs have been seen even though there is no
natural light. Interestingly, the claims are
that the orbs are both of purpleand red color instead of the

(19:23):
more normal white or yellow colors that are generally most
common. Some believe these colors
represent an aggressive or evil spirit, where the yellow or
white are ones of a general nature.
Recordings of footsteps and softwhispers have also been captured
in the whole as well. That stuff all over the place.

(19:44):
Yeah, it sounds like it. So if you go and I encourage you
to do today, the prison is a bitof a tourist attraction,
complete with a restaurant called the Warden's Table
serving Southern Comfort food onmetal cafeteria trays.
There's a distillery and a brushy mountain distillery
offering whiskey, vodka and, of course, moonshine.

(20:04):
There's even an event space. Chad, I know we have plans this
weekend, but graduation parties and all that stuff.
But for those without plans thisweekend, country music star
Clint Black will be performing there Saturday evening at 7:00
PM. And tickets are still available.
And they're really cheap. Of course, walking tours of the

(20:24):
facility are available with daytime options from 10:30 AM to
up until 6:30 PM. For those brave enough to
investigate the paranormal public overnight investigations
are available nightly from 9:00 PM until 4:00 AM.
There is a minimum, though, of eight people, and reservations
are required. They got to know you're coming.
And while local accommodations are limited in the nearby area,

(20:46):
Brushy Mountain does have an RV park and A campground.
And of course, with any attraction, there's also a gift
shop. Always has to be a gift shop.
Always has to be. Always exit through the gift
shop. Exactly, you know.
So in closing in my research I found many many stories of
violence inside the prison but also but most came with

(21:07):
contradictions. Couple of us with poor to non
existent records. We may never know the truth of
what really happened when inmates were sent to the end of
the line. One thing I do know is that the
spirits who remain at Brushy Mountain are trying to tell
their story. We just have to listen.
Let me cite some sources and we'll discuss.

(21:28):
The 1st is morgancountychamber.com/tourism/historic
Brushy Mountain. The website for the
establishment is tourbrushy.com.Amyscript.com/haunted Brushy
Mountain Penitentiary, Haunted almanac.com/prisons Dash Asylum
slash Hauntings, Historic BrushyMountain State Penitentiary,

(21:51):
freightfind.com/brushy Mountain Penitentiary and an interesting
podcast by Lyle russell.net slash 2022/O9/26/TN-GL Dash
Episode 7 Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary.
So it's a place and judging, if you're looking at the the

(22:15):
pictures, it's a place that is in kind of the condition you
would expect it to be for something that's nearly 100
years old at this point. We've been in prisons, Chad,
right? To visit, to visit.
Let's get this clear. Yes, we've investigated prisons.

(22:35):
OK, sorry. Investigated prisons.
We've investigated prisons and, you know, it takes me
automatically to West Virginia Penitentiary in Moundsville, WV
because it seems that, you know,that also was a facility built
by inmates. It also had a coal mine.
And it also had a ton of violence and, you know, just

(23:02):
unspeakable things, violence committed to inmates by inmates.
And some of it apparently was acceptable.
You know, there was also a jailbreak back in the 80s in
this case was around the same era.
The there were guards who were wounded and injured, you know,
So you know, it's, it's a pattern here, right?

(23:24):
And then there's others, and others, and others as well.
Yeah, it seems, it seems like there is definitely a pattern,
you know, now you say it seems like there's like there were
movements across the country forprisons, like guards went on
strike, prisoners went on strike, like prisoners had
riots. It just seems like that was very

(23:44):
cyclical and it's like if it happened one place, word got
around and happened at other places.
Yeah, that's a good point actually.
And, and, well, you know, like you don't know what you can get
until you try as well, you know,if another group or, or entity
is doing something and gets the concessions that they were
looking for, at least a lot of them or some of them even, you

(24:06):
know, something's better than nothing around, you know.
So if your conditions could be improved or, you know, and it
goes to the, it goes to the, youknow, the guards as well.
I mean, if they're not, they're not safe.
I don't, I don't, I don't want to go to work, you know, kind of
thing. And I can't, you know, we're,
we're in a modern era now. And I can tell you from some
experience that coming from the nonprofit world that the

(24:28):
Lancaster County Prison at one point had a deficit of guards
and they were always trying to hire, you know, and, you know,
I, I assume the newbies have to take the night shift and, you
know, some of the stuff that youdon't want to do.
So maybe that's part of the challenge.
But you know, you do shift differentials and you find ways
to compensate better. But the the system was always
hiring for years and, you know, because they certainly weren't

(24:50):
finding people who were willing to do the work because of the
place, you know, and here we arein a, you know, very modern era
where things are much, much better than they were at this
facility. Even, you know, as it closed 13
years ago, 14 years ago, 15, whatever it is now 2009.
And now I can't do math apparently.
I'm sorry, 16 years ago. Sorry, that's not that long ago.
It's, it's in our lifetime, you know?

(25:12):
And well within our lifetime. So Bert had this comment.
I started my career in law enforcement as a corruptions
officer, but it was only a county prison.
State prisons are a lot worse. Yeah.
I mean, you know, just I can't imagine being having to be part

(25:33):
of that from the law enforcementside.
And Bert, I have tremendous respect for you for this.
Like, it's just not something that I could do.
And it just, but you know that that energy from those people,
both sides is still in that prison.
Yep. And that's, that's why we're
getting some of these stories that we hear about.

(25:56):
We, we, and we always hear aboutthe, the prisoner stories.
But I'm sure there's spirits of ghosts there or spirits of
ghosts, spirits of guards there as well, because they put their
heart and soul in it. So, you know, I'm there were
times where guards were killed on on the job and, and things
like that. So.
Absolutely. And you know, any time there's

(26:16):
passion there, there's energy and you know, the, the, the
residualness of it alone, it might be enough.
And I, you know, until somethingis, until a place is explored,
I, I can tell you all about this.
I haven't been there and be honest about it.
I haven't been. I want to go.
I really want to go. It's only 9:00-ish hours from
here. So, you know, road trip.
I can't believe no one said this, you know, but it's a, it's

(26:41):
not a, a get in and get out likewe do localized things, you
know, it's a planned trip. So, you know, I had, I really, I
really thought about doing, well, doing the, you know, the
research here. I really thought, well, how much
does it cost to rent an RV? You know, like we could all pile
in and go kind of thing. It's it's not inexpensive,
unfortunately. No, yeah, it's.

(27:03):
You know, but the investigation part of it, you know, it's, it's
minimum of eight people. I know we can find 8 people.
It's a little pricey in the sense it's like 150 bucks a
person. So, you know, Yeah, OK, sure.
But. Out of the realm of, you know,
they, they, these range, these places all range from, you know,
$40 to. 200 Yeah, I know, I know.

(27:25):
It's so it's, it's there, but it's high, you know, like on the
higher end of things. And it may turn people away,
especially with distance, you know, so it's like, oh, you
know, if, but if I tell you what, if I lived anywhere in
eastern Tennessee, western Virginia, West Virginia, of
course, but western Virginia andand, and North Carolina.
I mean, this isn't all that far from the Brown Mountain area,
you know, a reasonable drive. So, you know, we could, we could

(27:47):
do a little swinging trip, scoopit in, you know, dip over to the
Bell Witch property, you know, Yeah.
Definitely. So, but you know, it, it's, it's
a, it's a bucket list. And I said this before, I don't
do bucket lists. I don't know, I said that.
But you know, like the idea, like it's, it's on, it's on mind

(28:07):
to, to want to get there. And how to do it is just a
question, you know, and, and it just, it's just one of those
places. It's tucked in.
It's isolated still. I mean, that's, that's why it
was built there. Well, it was really built there
because it was a coal mine. You know, there was, there was
activity of mining in the area And but this valley that it's in
is just perfectly suited to put this facility there.

(28:30):
Because there's nowhere to go. Because.
There's nowhere to go, right? There's a Cliff on one side and
there's a steep hill on the other.
And you know, the, the, the valley is a channel then you
know, putting an 18 foot wall around it really impedes yeah,
trying to get out. Well, and you said the the one
guy who escaped was that James Earl Ray?
Earl Ray, Yeah. Only got what, 8 miles away

(28:54):
after his first day? Like 2 days.
Two days out, eight miles is notthat far.
No, like if he was even. A motivated individual, right?
On foot, like you should be ableto get much further that that
probably just tells you the terrain that they're dealing
with, yeah. It's pretty rough.
It's, it's, you know, it's mountainy and, and it's rural.
So you know there are there are no true paths and roads and so

(29:16):
forth other than what goes out the front gate.
You know which is beyond that ifyou've escaped from prison, yes.
Exactly. Yeah, so I can understand it,
you know, and, and we, we hear astory, you know, there a few
years ago there was a manhunt here in Pennsylvania.
A guy up in the Northern Tier somewhere shot a state trooper
and just disappeared in the woods.
It took two weeks to find this guy, you know, with all the

(29:36):
technologies that we have now that this is 1980 something.
So it's not as much stuff. But, you know, there are.
They went out with guard dogs and and bloodhounds and so
forth. And, you know, it's it took them
two days and that's pretty good,I guess.
But you know, the fact he couldn't get much further, it
tells me he's about me in prettybad shape.
I don't know, maybe. Yeah.
Who knows? But you know, and I'm glad he

(29:57):
was caught. You know, obviously he's done a
crime. He admitted to a crime.
He's going to do his time. And you know, it's funny, he
outlasted Brushy Mountain. He actually got transferred to
another facility and I think he passed in 2012 or something like
that. So it wasn't, you know, Brushy
didn't do him in even with beingstabbed all that many times,
right? It's amazing there we go with

(30:21):
him, but you know, one of many, you know, there there's another
inmate who was trying to to launch a a political career and
it wasn't doing well and and went to his opponent's house and
shot and killed him. You know, it's like the the
mindset there, you know, and that fellow same way he

(30:42):
outlasted Brushy and went on to another facility, eventually
passed in in prison. You know, these are life
sentences. There was, there is or was an
electric chair at Brushy, you know, their, their version of
old Sparky and there are no, however, there are no definitive
records to say that anyone was executed in the chair, but it

(31:03):
was there. So it's a possibility at least.
And then the records, I don't, Idon't understand how the records
are so poor that you know, things like that.
You know, there were executions that occurred and I believe most
were by lethal injection, which was the acceptable means at the
time and maybe still is, I don'tknow.
But you know, the, the chair, the electric chair was cruel and

(31:26):
unusual punishment and, but other, other means are not.
But, you know, individuals, I think 100 inmates were, were
executed by the death penalty inthe time of the, of the
institution being open. So, and there is a Popper's
graveyard in the back of the facility as well.
You know, people who weren't claimed.

(31:47):
So they're very much like any, any of these facilities.
There's just unmarked graves and, you know, a plot in the
back kind of thing, which is, you know, just another sense
that someone didn't get closure and didn't get a chance to move
on. So Jamie, a little bit about the
electric chair in in Tennessee, It's a choice of the inmate.

(32:10):
It was, it was an option. The lethal injection was the
primary method, but the electricchair was allowed to be chosen
and they also. Tennessee passed legislation
that they could use the electricchair if lethal injection drugs
were not available. So it was an.

(32:31):
Override. OK, so, so, so you do something
really horrible and you get the death penalty.
Do you Do you choose the chair where you know you were going to
have electricity course of your veins until you die, or do you
take an injection where you basically fade out?

(32:53):
You know, like I don't understand how you get a choice.
That's amazing to me. Yeah, I don't know.
But neither are good. Hopefully no one ever does
anything to deserve. That I, I don't think violence,
but I, I think lethal injection is not as painless as it sounds
from what some of the things that I've read.
OK. That's great.
I mean, it's, it's not, I don't know.

(33:16):
None of them are good ways, you know, which is I guess part of
the punishment. So of course anyway.
We we're a little off topic there, sorry.
We we digress. Yeah.
So, yeah, you know, we, we typically say, you know, is it
haunted? I I would say I'm, I'm sure that
just, there's, there's energy there from.

(33:36):
Well, first of all, you're dealing with a coal mine.
Yep. So you've got you've got coal,
which is, you know, how old is coal, all that sort of stuff.
You've got inmates that I'm sureended up with black lung.
That was another comment that Bird had earlier.
His his uncle worked in the coalmines in southern Ohio most of

(33:56):
his life. He ended up with black lung and
passed away about nine years ago.
So I'm sure that there were manyof these inmates.
Again, like you said, OSHA and Maisha were not things that
happen. They just right we, you know, so
I'm sure you know, you had deaths from black lung, you had

(34:17):
you had cave insurance, you had all sorts of stuff.
Yeah, the mines were dangerous, right, For sure.
And and, you know, with, with respects to it, these weren't
mining companies running it there.
They were, they were consultantsat times.
But you know, this was, this wasthe, the state of Tennessee
operating the mines. So, you know, they, they were,

(34:38):
and using free labor, they were cut in the corners whenever they
could. And that's why it was such an
unsafe space to, to be in. And another, another thing in,
in the, you know, the, the consideration of paranormal,
what could be causing paranormalactivity anyway is that there is
at least one, if not 2 natural springs running under the

(34:59):
facility. So there's the running water
element of it as well. And that is, you know, the, the,
the facility has a well and at one point it had storage tanks
that were, you know, pulling water up and reserving it, you
know, for, for immediate need use in case there was an issue
with like droughts and such. But you know, so the running

(35:19):
water element and, and all the other energies, there's no way
this place doesn't have activity.
I'm I'm going to go haunted and say yes.
Yes is my answer yes. And let's see, it's sandstone,
so you know, there's another thing.
Yep, porous material. Porous material so just draws

(35:42):
that energy in and that. Kept it there.
So I don't know if you saw it, but I missed it earlier when
Bert put it up he said we could do a group airboating.
Yeah, we can. We've done that before.
And I'm all for that, because Bert cooks one heck of a
breakfast. Does he does though?
Yes, Yes, please. So.

(36:04):
We know, and, and it's one of those things, at least these
places, anytime we go out, you know, as, as investigators,
anytime we get to go out with our, you know, with our team
specifically, but also our friends, you know, it's, it's a,
it's a fun event, you know, because there's camaraderie,
there's there's a little bit of humor.
There's just, you know, and obviously there's a lot of
seriousness because we take thisseriously.
But, you know, it's, it's, it's,it's always one of those things

(36:25):
where it's just more fun to do with the people you, you know.
And so yes, let's do it. That's our next.
Maybe it's our next summer trip.Sounds sounds like a good plan
to me. So OK.
But yeah, we need we Jamie, it'sbeen a while.
It's been a slow summer. We had our trip the earlier in
the year, which was definitely worth it.
But when was the last time we were at White Hill?

(36:48):
Oh my gosh, Last last summer. Yeah, it's been a while.
Probably this time last year. So we need to schedule some
trips, local local trips, but. Yeah, my I do have a trip
scheduled so. Well, you do.
Yeah, you're right. I'm recovering from camp when
you're going on. I know.
I know you're from your vacation.
Sure. Yeah, I know.

(37:10):
I know. And and, Bert says.
It's always more fun when you stay over.
It's like Mount Joy, right? Yeah, it's always more fun when
you stay over. So well, do you have any final
thoughts, Jamie on on Brushy Mountain?
I mean, it's there's, there's a lot to unpack there.
Like there's. Yeah, it's a unique place.
It really is. And and if you know, I'd love to

(37:30):
hear from folks if you've been there and done that, you know,
drop as a comment, you know, to catch up to this episode along
the way, your thoughts about theplace and, you know, just any
insights or intuitions to it. It's it is unique.
And again, it's been on my radarfor years.
I think. I think what really caught my my
attention was the mine part of it.

(37:50):
Yeah, that's unique. But you know, it, it's just got
to be. It's got to get done.
So. Yeah, I mean, there's 113 years
of history sitting there, you know, like it's worth
investigating. Absolutely.
So yes, please. So.
Well, that's cool, Very cool. So I'm just going to throw this

(38:15):
out there, Jamie, because this is a a completely off topic, but
Lancaster history this week, June 9th, I don't know if you're
aware of this was the anniversary of the Colemanville
dynamite factory explosion. Yes, yes, I saw that.
Did you see that? Yep.
It's a very unique piece of Lancaster history that a lot of

(38:36):
people don't know about, but it's definitely worth looking
at. Next year's going to be the
120th anniversary of it. So I think, I think I may have
to do a hike that day down into the heart of Colemanville and,
and the Wildflower Preserve and just go spend some time in

(38:57):
silent reflection and, and stuffbecause those, those, those guys
went through a lot that day. So I'm sure you read the
articles. It's definitely work worth
looking up Colemanville and Lancaster County explosion.
You'll find it. So.
You you got to realize though, on 120th, 120th anniversary,
there might be other folks therethat you know, they might blow
up your spot. Maybe.

(39:21):
You know it. Well, to that point, you know,
this, this is this is how thingstransition, you know, a dynamite
factor. First of all, the fact that
existed here where we are, like,that's pretty crazy, right, You
know? But it's not if you understood
how they worked, because they were built on the rail lines.
Right. And I get that and I understand
the need for the material they were creating and, and, you
know, in the processes, but, youknow, it's just like they've got

(39:43):
to be somewhere. And I understand that that was
here, but what it is now is nowhere near that.
Like the land is transitioned out now it's, you know, a nature
preserve. It's just fascinating, you know,
and, and a lot of things along the rail lines, you know, we, we
are privileged to live along the, the Susquehanna, first of
all, and, and all of the, the trade and commerce that came

(40:04):
here, all the things that were, were brought forward, brought
forward because of it. I used to live in a house that
was the, a canal, a general store on the canal and it was
built in 1760 something, you know, it's still a stone house,
you know, kind of thing. And, and, you know, two floors
essentially in, you know, the basement, which was the door at

(40:25):
the time was the shop and still has the original hearth in it,
you know, not used anymore. But it's, it's crazy how cool
this was. And it did in addition, at some
point in the 60s, I think to puta bathroom in the house, you
know, because it didn't have anything up in the woods, you
know, be able to go up along thetrail, the Northwest River Trail
between Columbia and Marietta. The all of the old properties

(40:45):
are still there. Like they're falling down.
All the, the industry stuff, thefoundries and such.
The Roundhouse is there, you know, and you go further up, you
get above up to Bainbridge, there's olfactory facilities
that are just barely still standing enough to see walls,
you know, like there was so muchstuff along the Susquehanna at
the time that all that energy still has to bring something

(41:06):
too, you know, and I know that, you know, we, we talked about
how, how Jotnik's paranormal gotfounded with Jerry Melissa going
out into the woods in Chickies Rock, you know, but that's, that
was one of the areas where therewas so much activity.
There were homesteads there, there was industry there, you
know, the, the rail was there. It's just, you know, there's,
there's energy and where there'senergy, there's activity.

(41:26):
Definitely. That's a good.
Point thanks for bringing that up.
I I I was remiss to note the anniversary.
Bert says I want to do that little I want to do the little
abandoned village down there. Can't remember the name of it.
Are you talking about Bill Meyer?
Because I know that's a there's that's that might be more closer

(41:47):
to Kenoi, though I'm not sure ifthat's southern end or or over
closer over to the river. Well, Canoe's north.
That's basically Bainbridge. Right.
But I can't remember where. I think.
Yeah, I, I don't know. But he also says that he thinks

(42:07):
that there's an an Odd Fellows lodge down there.
OK, so that'd be interesting. Definitely worth checking out.
It's one of these days to add that to our list.
We have so much local history, Jamie, that.
Yes, I know we. We are remiss in exploring our
own area. So he he's saying that there's

(42:28):
one down by the preserve, which I sort of remember there was a
hotel, there was the Odd FellowsLodge.
There's, there's, it's a whole little community, but I can't
remember the name of it. But we will have to find out and
explore. Yeah, absolutely.
Well. Legally.
That's an easy road trip, so. So that might be a bike trip

(42:50):
even. I don't know.
I don't know, maybe, maybe. We'll see.
Apollinola. Just the bikes have motors on
them, I'm good. Come on man, I I saw a dude
today do something I haven't seen hardly anybody do.
I was coming home from work and I saw a guy peddling electric
bike. And I thought, you go guy, you

(43:11):
know, like, that's cool. That's, you know, you didn't
need, it was a flat area. It wasn't hills or anything.
You know, all I ever see are thekids in my neighborhood just
buzzing around on their bikes. And it's like pedal exercise.
It's a bike. Well, I know my my son Ben has
an electric bike and he uses it when he needs the assistance,
but a lot, most of the times he's he's pedaling away because
he has a standard bike too and. Sure.

(43:33):
Well, he's also, you know, beingin Pittsburgh where he is, you
know, I don't blame him for having an electric bike with all
those hills so, but I know he can he can handle himself.
He's done it for years now, so. Yeah, yeah, he, he's one of
those guys who ran into problemsthat pants didn't fit because
his thighs were too big, not hiswaist, like, because he was
biking, so. Much He's got Popeye.

(43:54):
Legs so good for him, you know, I'm proud of him.
So yeah. Absolutely.
So anyway. Yeah, I don't know.
I'm I'm having some back end issues on this on the show
tonight. Not that anybody can see, but
things are really wonky and hopefully they're coming
through. OK, but we'll let's let's look

(44:17):
at what's coming up. Sure, let's see next week.
I'm, I haven't said much about this, but I'm really getting
excited about this. The, the, the show next week.
It's the hauntings of my childhood home.
I've got 14 excerpts, stories, whatever you want to call them,

(44:39):
of things that have happened in the house that my dad has
recorded over the years and, andwritten down, sort of written
down, but you know, sort of, youknow, passed it on some.
I'm in. I'm really excited about that.
My son Alex will be joining us. He actually had his own personal
experience there. So it it should be a fun night

(45:05):
for me and hopefully I can get some some friends from from
Littlestown to watch the show next week.
That'd be that'd be interesting too and get some feedback from
them. Speaking of Littlestown, the
week after that is Gettysburg. You have 7 miles up the road,
You're in Gettysburg, Jamie, you're, you're covering that.
There's a lot to cover there, too.

(45:25):
I know, I know, I'm trying to figure out how to, how to pare
it down. You know, it, it, it more likely
is going to be an overview. OK.
And, and just, you know, the, the key things and then we'll,
we'll explore specific areas andother episodes along the way.
Yeah, that's yeah, because there's, there's a lot we could
dig into in specific areas and, and yeah, but Yep, we'll let you

(45:46):
give us an overview and go from there.
I'll make sense of it, I promise.
I'm I'm sure you will. July 1st we're going to do a
season 2 wrap up. Still haven't got any
submissions on people's favoriteepisodes, but we do have time.
I haven't put mine in yet either.
So. They're up here.

(46:08):
It's the Vault. And, and maybe it'll just have
to be a sort of a live poll as we go that night.
Who knows? We'll figure that out though.
It might be a really short episode too, I don't know.
It could be. We'll find out.
But whenever we say that, then we end up going like an hour and
10 minutes so. Yeah, fair.
OK, then the following week we're going to be dark the the
week of July 8th. I'm I'm away.

(46:29):
I haven't trained Jamie on how to do this yet.
And I'm untrainable. That's it, No.
No, no one. It's.
The truth? Come on, just say it, OK?
And then July 15th, we're still not releasing the details on
that one, but it's that's another one I'm excited about,
but I'm looking forward to it. I.
Really am too. It's going to be a fun, fun
evening. So yeah, that's definitely going

(46:50):
to be interesting. Jotnik's paranormal, paranormal
lens. I think this is more has shifted
to now we're going to Jamie and I will definitely be at the
Horror and haunted Crescent and Horror Paracon on July on June

(47:11):
28th. Two weeks, 2 weeks a week for
Saturday. 12 to 6. I know it's 12:00 to 6:00.
Anyway, it's going to be interesting.
Jamie and I've been kicking around some ideas in the last
couple hours of what we want to do, so hope people can come out
and see us there. It should be a fun afternoon.

(47:33):
Evening. Let's see, what else.
And and well and before we move on and you can, you can get a
separate ticket to go and investigate Crescent itself that
evening and that night. So it is a full day if you wish
it to be. I haven't decided how I'm going
to do that yet yet, but I'm, I have not yet investigated
Crescent. So and I know most of the team

(47:54):
has. So I was just, it was during the
week and I wasn't available to get away, etcetera.
So, you know, having this opportunity, I don't want to
miss it. So I may stay and and see how
much, how much I can spend time wise with stuff to get home that
night. It's a long, long day, but it's
it's really exciting. I'm looking forward to getting
there. So I haven't investigated

(48:14):
either. I'm not sure.
I thought you did. I'm sorry.
No, I haven't been there. I was actually at camps while
they investigated that, which islike.
Of course. Which is like an hour away so I
was close but. You were on vacation that week.
I get it. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm always on vacation. Paranormal investigations coming
up. Like we said, June 28th, the
Haunted Crescent. Then July 26th we have a public

(48:38):
investigation at the brewery. There are only 5 tickets left at
this point and we're a month, we're more than a month out so
that's great. Grab those tickets before
they're gone. Then we're back August 16th,
September 27th, October 11th and18th.
Then we have a date in November and a date in December as well.

(48:58):
But we'll, we'll get those up atsome point.
Get a little get a little more room on the screen for those.
And then let's see, we've got our our socials, the website is
up. We're still working through it,
but the basic data is there. You can reach out and find out
more about Jamie and I there. On the Paranormal Lens section.

(49:19):
I can find out more about all the members of our team.
The address is www.jot-nicksparanormal.com.
You can find that on our Link Tree.
If you go to Link Tree and look up Paranormal Lens, you'll find
all this information there. You found us on Facebook or

(49:41):
YouTube. We also have a TikTok, Instagram
and you can always e-mail us at [e-mail].
Then if you're looking for our podcasts, you can find that on
YouTube is one place you can find it.
But Apple Podcast, Spotify, all the normal streaming services,

(50:05):
which you should be able to findus.
I discovered us on another one the other day, Jamie.
It was sort of weird. I was like, oh, this looks cool.
And it's like, oh, your podcast is here.
Do you want to blame it? So.
Yes, I do. So things like that are pretty
cool. Yeah, that's really, you know,
the reach that this, that that all media has these days is
amazing. You know, the fact that we are,
we've been heard in 32, I believe, countries around the

(50:28):
world is just absolutely humbling, first of all, and also
really, truly amazing how far and wide, you know, information
is shared and captured and and enjoyed.
So thank you everybody for for coming along for the ride.
Yeah. So yeah, any final thoughts,

(50:48):
Jamie? Well, as I usually say, you
know, obviously we have we, you saw our schedule coming up and
you know, short of the, the, thetwo weeks where there's a dark
week and there's a special kind of a project we're going to do
on the 8th and 15th of July. You know, we're always willing
and able to do listener submissions.
So if there's a topic that comesto mind for you or personal

(51:09):
experience or something in that spirit, pun intended, you know,
feel free to reach out, you know, send us a message via any
of the streaming services, you know, leave a comment or e-mail
us again at [e-mail].
And we have a little time to, toinvestigate it and research it.
But you know, we, we have done lists of submissions in the
past. We're certainly willing to do

(51:29):
them again. Just let us know, you know, and
the same thing with letting us know, you know, leave a review,
leave some stars, whatever it may be, whatever the the service
you're using allows, you know, give us that feedback and lets
us know how we're doing. And, you know, hopefully we're
meeting, meeting your expectations.
But if we're not, say so, you know, we're always, we're always
trying to improve. And, you know, unfortunately we

(51:50):
don't know sometimes until we'retold that, you know, something's
either working really well or that just absolutely sucks.
And you know, we're good both ways.
So we. Just have to I'm, I'm Honestly,
I'm very good with both, both ways.
So you know, I am, I'm happy to take criticism and we'll, we'll
make it better. So, you know, it's up to you all
that what you want to see and let us know.
It's always a. Work in progress?
Yeah, always a work in progress.Absolutely.

(52:12):
We all are lifelong learners. Yeah.
So, all right. Well, on that note, Jamie, I've
been working on tag lines. You know, we talked about this a
long time ago and I I worked onein last week and I'm going to
throw it out again as we as we exit and we want to say
goodnight to everybody. Thanks for watching.
Stay alert, stay respectful, andstay curious.

(52:35):
How's that? I like it.
I like it, and I also like MountJoyce.
More fun when you sleep over. All right, great.
I like it, Chuck. This this perfect.
You have to write that one down for me though.
So, all right. So on that note, thanks
everybody for hanging out with us for the last hour.

(52:57):
And Bert, we're we're glad that we can keep you going between
investigations. They had a comment from Bert
here real quick before we go. Tuesdays are the only thing that
keeps me going between investigations.
So yeah, I know, I know me too. So not the only thing.
There's a lot of other stuff. And I know you have stuff too,
but you know, from the, the touch points of the paranormal,
you know, it's, it's if there's gaps.
And this helps Phil and I. I really appreciate the comment

(53:19):
and thank you again, you and Heather and and everyone else
for coming along for the ride. It's super cool.
It means a lot to us to have ourour, our faithful followers and
our new followers. So.
So all right, good night. We'll see you next week and
we'll be talking about the hauntings of my childhood house.
Till then, good night.