April 30, 2025 • 48 mins
🎙️ Paranormal Lens Podcast – Season 2, Episode 39: Into the Portland Tunnels 🌑👻
Get ready to descend into the shadows! On this week's episode of Paranormal Lens, host Jamie Widener takes us deep into the mysterious and infamous Portland Tunnels, also known as the Shanghai Tunnels. These underground passages hold dark secrets of the past—stories of kidnapping, smuggling, and, of course, ghostly encounters.
Chad Thomas will be right there with Jamie as they explore the chilling history, the paranormal activity reported beneath the streets of Portland, and the legends that continue to haunt these tunnels today.
đź“… Tune in live on April 29, 2025, at 9:00 PM
🎧 Catch the replay on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!
Grab your flashlight and your courage—let's venture underground together. Let’s just hope we don’t get shanghaied! 🚶‍♂️🕯️
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:35):
The. Hey, welcome to this week's
episode of Paranormal Lens presented by Jot Next
Paranormal. I am Jamie Whitener.
I'll be your host tonight along with Chad Thomas or or we know
is that guy over there? What's happening to Chad?
(00:58):
How you doing? I'm all right.
How are you, Jamie? I am.
I'm hanging on. It has been a week and two days
already, so you know, my goodness, I know you had a a
busy weekend. You want to want to share what
you did Saturday by by chance? Let's see.
Oh, we had an investigation at the brewery.
(01:18):
Is that what you're talking about?
That is exactly. Yeah, yeah.
We had a a good group at the brewery.
Most of them didn't make it the whole night, but that's OK.
We had one group leave before last.
By being tired or. Well, yes, yeah, I should get.
Into the fear role there somewhere.
I should clarify that they were,they got tired.
(01:39):
The first one group left for theat the end of the second
session. And then during like my group
sort of dwindled away during thelast session.
And, you know, it was like, well, there's just the two of us
and one of our friends with us now.
So, so yeah, it was, but it was a good time.
We had a little bit of activity,not not a whole lot.
(02:00):
There was other things going on at the brewery that I think
sucked energy out and just, yeah, it was.
But it was, you know, it's always a good night at the
brewery. Never a bad time to be there,
you're right. Exactly.
Well, I did. I did something that was not
paranormal, but it but it could have been OK.
So I went to the Fulton Theatre.So we know we already talked
(02:21):
about the Fulton here before. You know, obviously it's a it's
an age-old active theater. And I got to see a play called
Forever Plaid, about four aspiring young men back in the
50s who are in a boy band of lack of better way of calling, a
Doo wop group, and a heading offto a gig in from Harrisburg to
(02:42):
Philadelphia and got hit by a bus and died.
So they came back though, for one last performance from the
great beyond, and that was the play itself.
So it's a fun musical. It's really a lot of fun.
Yeah, absolutely. And and, you know, there's
there's never a bad show at the Fulton, of course, either.
They don't, they don't, you know, they have, they have a
good track record of winners, but, you know, it's sort of
(03:04):
paranormally so paranormal stuff.
So I felt pretty good about it. Sorry I missed you guys, but
this was this was a previous commitment that I had to keep.
And that idea is a lot of fun. A lot of fun.
Really good show actually. Yeah, I did that show, oh, I
don't know how many years ago with the Fulton, but it was a
lot of fun then too. Mainstage then it was not
(03:24):
mainstage unfortunately, but Anastasia is playing on the
mainstage right now. So they, they kind of, you know,
they have it cornered, but upstairs in the 4th floor, nice
small space. Intimate crowd, but that's
that's, that's a good show to have in that sort of an intimate
space too, because you feel likeyou were right.
Yeah. Yeah, some.
Some crowd interactions. Of course.
It brought a lady on stage and she hammed it up perfectly.
(03:46):
Oh well. Good.
You know, and all the all the fun of it.
So was say hi to Todd and Carmella and Bert's with this of
course. Hey.
Guys, good evening. So Jamie Bert sent me a couple
of clips from Tala. Oh, so he'd so actually send
them to the paranormal lens thing.
So I got to make sure that you're getting those.
I don't think they automatically.
(04:06):
Yeah, I think it's it's just youat this point.
So, OK, I didn't see them anyway.
Maybe I don't have credentials, might have them, but I don't
know what they are. I should say it that way.
Well, I I can set them up that they forward to you.
We'll OK, I know we'll work thisout.
You know, people, you got peopleeither way, all right.
And Jim's here. Hey, Jim, good evening.
Good to see you. You know, it like everything's
(04:30):
great until it doesn't work, right?
You don't know it's not working until someone says, hey, did you
get that right? Yeah.
OK, cool. I'm looking forward to seeing
this. You know, as far as, as far away
as we get from it, it's still I,I I can't speak for you or
anybody else who was with us, but it's still on my mind being
there. And that, that's unusual for me
(04:52):
at least, you know, coming out of the investigation, you know,
because we move on, we have things, you know, I've done it
since then. We've had investigations of our
own since then, you know, and it's been a couple weeks and
man, it's just, I can't, I can'tnot think about it, you know,
like not, not in a bad way and not in a good way.
It's just it's present in the back of my mind, everyone's
life, like as myself remembering, you know,
(05:13):
experiences there. That's a cool thing, you know,
to have that leave it like an impression on your imprint on
you. So I think that means we have to
go back. Yep, for me at least, I have to
go back. Something resolved there.
Todd and Carmela go Friday. Maybe you know, that's right.
It's. All cool.
All right, Well, maybe, hey, yougot to pass through Pennsylvania
to get there, so maybe I'll justhop a ride.
(05:35):
Well, I remember one other thingwe had we got from the
investigation on Saturday night on the catacombs.
Alex and I were teamed up and wewere down there with a a family.
It was pretty, the whole group was pretty much a family and a
girl and a boyfriend there. And they were sitting up against
the candle wall in the lower over in the corner sort of by
(05:59):
where the, the, the trapdoor, not trapdoor, but the thing that
goes down to the, so they were sitting at the table there
against the wall. And you know, we're talking
about how it got chilly. And they're, they're like the
girl goes, my left side just gotreally cold.
And the guy looks at her and goes, my right side just got
(06:21):
really cold. Alex, Alex, go grab your thermal
'cause he's got a good thermal camera.
So he grabs it and in between the two of them, there is some
sort of shape of a very cold spot.
Wow. And it's even cold.
You know the the back wall is cold because.
(06:41):
It's right. That's Rockwall, right?
It's darker than the the back wall.
Oh, so definitely an anomaly then.
Yeah, definitely in A room. Yeah, it's actually in the team,
the team chat, so you'll have tocheck it out.
They're dreaming. How to get there?
Today was a blur. So anyway, but yeah, it was, it
was that was pretty interesting.And we smelled cigarette smoke
(07:03):
down there. And the the girl who was sitting
there actually was like, I feel like I just smoked a cigarette
like that burn in the back of mythroat.
And we were all smelling the smoke.
So there was definitely something going on down there.
So. So anyway, yeah.
And Todd and Carmela when I comeback.
(07:24):
Anytime, my friends, anytime. And Heather's joined us tonight,
so. Good to see you.
Good to see you. So, but anyway, instead of
talking about what we've done recently, Jamie, what have you
found? I want to, I want to say
something before we move on to the topic tonight.
I, I got a chance to look back at last week's episode and, and
I really want to just take a minute to say thanks again to
(07:45):
Shawna Rigby for joining us and talking about the DOS house.
She had in hindsight, in retrospect, you know, we're in
the moment, You don't always getto absorb all the conversation,
But I, I think she has a really great perspective on two things.
One, the how, how things should be done in the paranormal field
and the way to do it being two different things.
You know, the, the whole cultureof family and you know, anybody
(08:08):
who wants to come along can you know, and the whole journey of
finding a place like they have and then just making it be
available, you know, just say open the door and, you know,
obviously you have to make reservations.
It's a paid event kind of thing,but the pricing is so low that I
think anybody can afford it, especially in a group setting,
you know, and just the access that they're providing to that.
I, I just, I was really, I, I, you know, I didn't sink in fully
(08:30):
in the moment last week. And, and, you know, we obviously
we say thanks and everything forour guests and, and, you know,
she brought such a lot of information to us, but in
hindsight, I, I was, that was such a great moment of just what
a cool person, what a cool group.
And they're really, they're really doing it right and kudos
to them. So, OK, so let's talk about
(08:50):
tonight though. So we are here to talk about the
Portland tunnels and many may not know them as that they may
be more familiar known as the from more familiarly known as
the Shanghai tunnels, but both are the same I assure you.
So where are we in the world? We are in old Chinatown in
Portland, OR and the when is themid 1800s all the way through
(09:14):
the mid 1900s, so about 100 years of time.
OK. So I have a question for you
before we start. It's not a quiz, is it?
Well, no, no, but it's it's an honesty question, so answer
honestly. Have you ever gone out to a bar,
had one too many and woken up the next morning home in your
bed wondering how did I get here?
(09:38):
Yeah. Everybody raise your hand.
If this is you, I'm going to raise 2.
OK. So it's more than likely that
we've all done this at one time or another, and our return trip
was likely due to a friend or a partner or someone we trusted,
right? Or just good grace.
Who knows how, but hopefully it was one of the above not not
(09:59):
just luck. So imagine if you will, not
having that good friend and waking up the next morning not
in the cozy confines of your place, but in the hold of a ship
sailing far out to sea. OK, it's a different story.
Yeah, it's a different. Story So this is how the story
of many who have had one or maybe a few too many at the bars
(10:22):
and that filled downtown Portland, OR in the mid 1800s to
the mid 1900s unfolded. To best paint this picture,
let's look back at the Pacific Northwest.
At this time the area was booming with the lumber trade
and growing rapidly due to folkslooking to strike it rich and
mining in the nearby mountains. This influx of opportunity meant
that many able bodied men were making way more money than they
(10:45):
needed and as as well as as doing is what young men often
do, they were spending it in local salons.
Additionally, the local ship docks, the docks down in the
river were arriving from all over the world and since many of
their sailors jumped ship, many of the captains needed crew
members to be able to return to sea.
(11:06):
A need was often met when a drunken or even drugged saloon
patron was shanghaied or kidnapped and sold into slavery
to a ship heading down the Willamette River and under the
Columbia River and then out to sea.
The going rate from a ship captain at the time was $50 a
head, so thugs and slavers oftenmade easy money praying on these
poor unsuspecting fellows. To aid in this activity, many
(11:30):
local bartenders were conspirators, working with a
thug or crimp, as they were often called to drug an unlikely
candidate, making him easier to deal with.
Crimps would often jam the victims in the small wooden
cages with no food or water in the tunnels nearest the docks,
and after several days they would be given a drink of mostly
drugs, making it easy for them to get onto the waiting ships.
(11:52):
If the Shanghai men were lucky enough to wake up from the
concoction, they often found themselves chained to the bells
of a ship very far from shore. Unfortunately, some of those who
were Shanghai escaped and made it back to Portland to warn the
others, and as a result, it became more difficult to abduct
men, so the thugs turned their attention to women who were
alone in the salons. Countless numbers were abducted
(12:15):
to be kept in cages in the tunnels until sold into
prostitution to buyers outside the area.
During its heyday, it is believed that over 1500 people a
year disappeared through the Portland tunnels.
Because this is all illegal activity, there are no official
records to prove this right. So a kind of heavy thing, right?
And the tunnels were stretched out all over the downtown.
(12:40):
The important part of this was that Portland, as it was growing
and growing, growing, you know, it's a riverfront community.
The the Willamette River runs right by it, right through it.
And the idea was that not to congest the streets with carts
and wagons and, and all the bulkstuff that comes from the docks,
They were digging tunnels and creating tunnels under the
(13:00):
streets so that the goods and merchandises could be moved in
and out pretty quickly and easily without being in the way.
And the the city grew into having a streetcar system,
which, you know, that track set is challenging sometimes for
carts and even cars, especially in the day when the roads were
dirt, plus extra riding into theroad when you know there's a
rainy season in the Northwest. So, you know, the ruts would
(13:23):
would cause problems and also just people, there's a lot more
people there all the time. So they were just trying to get
stuff out of the out of the way and it was just easier to move
it that way, you know, and we'llget into a second.
But you know, like anything that's good, something bad can
be done with it. So it almost sounds like a Walt
Disney's Utili corridor idea. Yes, exactly.
(13:46):
Everybody moves, everything moves away from the sight of the
guests and the patrons. Absolutely.
That's a good, that's really good analogy.
So during Prohibition, the bar and saloon Crow hold.
On Jimmy, Bert wants to know where the tunnels.
Get there. Patience, Sir.
Patience needed retirement. Oh, crap.
(14:06):
OK, sure. Maybe.
All right, So moving ahead a little bit in time.
During Prohibition, the bar and saloon crews simply moved
underground to speakeasies located all through the tunnels,
making it hard for the few law enforcement officers that aren't
already in the payroll of local criminals to find them.
And that's kind of part of this too.
Like, you know, there's, there'sa, an underbelly, you know, the,
(14:29):
the, the dark community of this is that, you know, there are,
there's a lot of crime, therefore there's a lot of
people making money who have resources that can pay off
people who would prosecute or jail them.
And it's happening. The same opportunities to
gamble, purchase drugs in the services of women existed in the
tunnels as it would have had anysaloon above should they be
open. Old Chinatown also had many
(14:50):
different gangs who often had their own tunnels leading to the
docks. Through these tunnels, they
would sneak in immigrants and contraband such as drugs away
from the watchful eye of the local police as well as customs
immigration officers. There were were always things
coming and going through the tunnels.
Now, Ted, by now you're probablythinking, what does this have to
(15:11):
do with the paranormal, right? Would be paranormal lens.
We didn't talk about that. So one of the key locations
access the tunnels was and stillis through the Merchant Hotel
and this is one of those grand properties right smack in the
middle of downtown, the Old Town.
Here you may find a spirit called Nina who was who is still
(15:32):
the resident ghost. Nina's story is that she was
sold into prostitution of a thenthriving white slavery market.
She was approached by traveling missionaries to provide
information on those exploiting her in exchange for freedom from
the world's oldest profession. Seeing a chance to escape from a
pass she did not choose, she quickly accepted.
However, soon after Nina was found dead at the hotel.
(15:56):
She had been thrown down an openelevator shaft.
The Merchant Hotel has long since closed and is now the
location of Old Town Pizza. Nina, though, is still there,
and in the early morning or closing time is when she is most
active, floating and moving through the restaurant, moving
chairs as well as items on the tables and the kitchen.
To let employee, isn't it? And that she's still there when
(16:20):
it is still, the observant can observant person can hear her
delicate footsteps tap across the floor.
She has often seen either a white or black dress and carries
A faint smell of perfume when she is present.
Some other examples from portlandghosts.com.
Deep within the tunnels, travelers report the atmosphere
to be thick in some areas and having goosebumps as well as an
(16:42):
uneasy feeling as if someone they cannot see is watching them
from the shadows. In the tunnels, people report
seeing an Asian man quickly walking past them.
Explorers named the spirit Sam and say that he is responsible
for turning off the lights in the bar basements.
Sam also likes to move things around in the tunnels.
As explorers walk by. 1 tour guide reported hearing a voice
(17:04):
calling out the name Sam over and over again.
It echoed through the tunnel andscared his guests because his
entire group was behind him. He knew that it was not one of
them. He says it was one of the
scariest experience of his life.Most tunnel tourists say that
Sam is a good ghost and looks and look forward to feeling his
presence. Others report seeing quick
(17:27):
movements of shadows and feelingghostly fingers on their
shoulders when no one else is around.
Other tunnel spirits known as tricksters who just love to have
a good time. They will often pull at your
short tail or gently tug at the ends of your hair.
One guest reported feeling a small tug on her shirt before
she tripped. She was not injured, but it was
an experience she says she will never forget.
(17:48):
You never forget the first time you get touched, right?
You know, I still Remember Me. So.
Yeah. So it's off putting.
Well, most of the ghosts in the Shanghai tunnels are reportedly
friendly. There's.
It is still better to remain cautious.
Some people recall feeling unwelcome, like someone or
something is watching them. One man remembers hearing
childlike whistling just before he was thrown to the ground.
(18:11):
After standing up, he turned to see who had knocked him down.
Lifting his flashlight, he saw that no one was behind him.
Their man reported that it was the last time he would be
visiting the Shanghai tunnel. It doesn't take much, no, does
it? No, not at all.
And there's more. hauntedhouses.com Share these
stories in 19 O2 the drugged, burly treated Shanghai crew
(18:36):
around 100 men who were chained together in the bowels of the
four masted schooner. The Jennifer Joe died on board
when the ship sank in the Portland harbor, staring at the
tunnels, starting at the tunnelsnearest the water.
Every year, on the anniversary of their drowning at sea, they
rush back as a group, looking for those responsible, hoping to
get justice of some sort. Various witnesses have seen
(18:56):
them, heard them, and have actually touched by a cold wet
hand. Another a an evil and creepy
presence of a bartender, like a likely conspirator with the
local crimp. Mainly resides in the Lotus
nightclub basement, probably thesite of a prohibition bar,
though he also visits the main bar.
(19:16):
Though he hasn't hurt anyone, his aura isn't a nice one.
He gets his chuckles, scaring the employees.
Is to say employees don't go down to the basement alone.
One brave bartender was alone inthe club cleaning up after
closing. He went down to the basement
where he heard the CO2 canister going off by itself in the bar
upstairs. He hurried upstairs and found a
(19:37):
single shot glass turned upside down on the bar.
Getting that last drink and lastcall.
There it is. During the prohibition years,
the gangsters ran a Speakeasy out of one of the basements of
the businesses connected to the tunnel that runs between ringers
on Stark Ave. and the Crystal ballroom located on Burnside St.
(19:57):
Terror reigned when a rival gangshowed up wearing stolen
Portland policeman office uniforms armed with Tommy guns
and axes. People at this party and the
gangsters who ran escaped down the tunnel which the killers
with the killers close behind them.
All was lost though when the frightened people came to a
narrowing of the tunnel and theywere massacred along with the
(20:17):
gangsters without mercy to leaveno witnesses.
In the Scooter Mcquade's Bar andGrill, a group personal
experience happened. A brave group went down to the
basement and put their ears uponthe bricked up doorway to the
tunnel. They heard a chorus of terrified
cries and moans getting louder and louder, coming right at the
(20:39):
door they were listening at. They scurried upstairs and then
witnesses witnessed the glowing entities rushed through the pub
but never quite making it outside before disappearing.
Others claim that this group appears coming out of the
basement in a panic. They're glowing, almost human
shapes rushed through the pub, brushing up, brushing by patrons
and knocking over drinks and knocking down chairs as they
(21:02):
make a mad dash for the door. This is our group that was
massacred. So there is there's a lot and
not a lot at the same time here because unfortunately the
tunnels have been sealed for themost part, although there are
(21:23):
now restoration projects in handto, to open up history
basically, you know, or for access, you know, the problem
with this and you've seen a lot of the, the slides here, you
know, the tunnels are either really rough shape, meaning they
were never reinforced, you know,with, with struts and
buttressing and therefore they've collapsed or at least
(21:44):
are partially collapsed. So passage is challenging.
You know, any time you work underground, you're at risk.
You know, go back to the Tommy knockers episode.
You know, there's no Tommy knockers in these caves areas,
you know, helping out or supporting the miners or the
diggers. Most of these were done by
people who weren't professionals, you know, in the,
far as the, the track, the tricks in the trade and the
(22:06):
craft of, of actually digging tunnels and mines like shafts
and such. So, you know, there's, and it's
been 150 years, so 170 years actually by now.
So it's, you know, time is done.It's told even on the ones that
were created well, and most of them are under the, the, under
the water table. So there's been, you know,
issues just with erosion and corrosion to the materials that
(22:28):
were put there. You know, so it's, it's a, it's
a, it's a lengthy process to to bring them back in.
But there are currently about 1400 square feet of tunnels open
and available and tours are available on a regular basis.
So let me get through some more material here and I'll, I'll
wrap up. So the original intent for the
Portland tunnels was a way to move goods between the docks and
the inner cities. So it's not to congest the
(22:50):
streets that were already bustling with streetcars and
citizens. Like many best intention
intended plans, criminals soon found a way to turn things to
their advantage. Given the miles of original
tunnels and the fairest reason why people would be in them, I
find it hard to believe there isn't activity, especially from
those still trying to find the way out.
If you go, please know that you cannot get into the tunnels
without a guide. And there are two groups
(23:11):
offering tours. Check out the Cascade Historical
Society or the Portland Walking Tours For more information.
We'll cite some sources we'll discuss.
So the newyorktimes.com. Travelportland.com,
shanghaitunnels.com, portlandghost.com,
legendsofamerica.com and hauntedhouses.com.
(23:37):
OK. There is a lot of there's a lot
of stuff. Information wise is really cool.
It sounds like it. So I'm going to go back to
Bert's comment before we go any further.
So, so you answered that about the, you know, there's parts of
the tunnels open. So my question is a does he want
to be Shanghai and work on a ship, right?
Does he want to be a Shanghai? Uh, what other?
What were the? What were they called?
(24:00):
He wants to be a. He could, yeah.
Or maybe he just wants to be a tour guide.
Jamie, maybe? That's true, yeah.
There's so many options here. But but yes Bert, there are
options. Yeah.
Well, you know, on the first one, the the part of the
problem, I guess for like a better way of saying it is that,
you know, when you were when youwere working a ship in the
1800s, you know, it was, it's a wooden ship and it's a, it's a
(24:21):
sail ship. It's a master chip.
And you know, it takes a lot of work.
It's a lot of hands to do the work.
As we moved into the 1900s in the, at least the early part of
the century, you know, we, we moved from sail to steam and
less manpower was needed because, you know, the, the ship
was powered differently. You know, we're raising and
lowering sales, doing all the tac work and all the stuff that
(24:43):
went with it. So it became less.
But when you were on the sea, you know, you were basically
coming from, say, Asia over, youknow, and then the, the West
Coast of the US is, is the stopping point to unload and re
refit and reload and takes up back, you know, sailors are in
contracts and sometimes the contract expired by the time
they got back, or sometimes theywere over it because the journey
(25:04):
took a little longer. Other times people were still in
an early part of their, their, their contract journey, but they
didn't like the work and therefore they jumped ship, you
know, and it's pretty easy to disappear, you know, once you
get into town, you can just change clothes and go up, you
know, on your own, you know, youdon't have to wear a uniform or
anything. So I think, I think that was
part of the problem, you know, and necessity came from it of
(25:27):
how OK, what do we do then, you know?
We have to have a crew to go back The the other part of that
is living on a ship is very you've got the work, but you
also have just living on a ship.You're in cramped quarters,
you're in hammocks. In that time you were in
hammocks. There were strung like so many
people in a room. It was crowded.
(25:49):
Scurvy was a a real thing, you know, because you didn't have
fresh fruits and vegetables. You were eating dried meats,
dry, you know, it was all stuff that could be barreled and then
saved for a journey. And fresh, fresh fruits and
vegetables were a limited thing.The work was hard.
(26:10):
The weather was hard. You were pitching a Dead Sea.
Like sea, say, like so. Yeah, I, I I get where they
needed crew. Cause who who better to replace
them? You know, you're talking like
lumberjacks. You're talking about minors who
are, are hard workers and you know, they're, they're certainly
blue collar, what we would call today, you know, individuals who
could handle themselves and knewhow to use tools and such.
(26:32):
And, you know, once you're out there, you know, once you're out
in the sea, at least, you know, I, I took a cruise a few years
ago, many years ago now, I guessbecause I'm getting getting
there, I'm getting to the age where things don't seem like
long ago, but like 12 years ago,15 years.
Ago is a long time. And with with an X now of mine.
But she said the funniest thing was like, you know, the cruise
(26:55):
was from Miami down to the Bahamas and back to Key West.
Just a short three day trip. She liked that she chose that
cruise or wanted to take that cruise because the ship would be
close enough to land and if it started to sink she could swim
back. OK.
So, and, and you know, it seems,it seems good on paper, however,
you realize that you're miles out, you know, they get in
(27:17):
international waters and that's part of the the trip because
there's a casino on the ship, you know, they have to be
international waters. Promote gambling or loud
gambling. Which is which is typically 20
miles. Yeah, that's, that's a little
more and I'm going to swim, you know, But the idea of it was
that. And I'm like, no, that's not how
this works. We're not cruising the
coastline. We're going out.
That's where it ties into Todd and Carmela's question here.
(27:39):
Wonder how many that got? Shanghai jumped overboard.
Well, some, certainly some, not all.
And part of the problem was, well, the problem for them,
those who are shanghaied, was that because they were drug, you
know, and some of some were suffering injuries and wounds
from being shanghaied first before they actually made it to
the ship, you know, to get to the holding area, most of the
(28:00):
bars had dead drops or trapdoors, you know, and then
you said trapdoor earlier for the for the basement and as
catacombs, you know, it's not that it's, it's a great cover,
but you know, they would, they would get to a place in the room
and then the other four would just fall out from under room.
And sometimes there was a mattress, probably not.
Sometimes it was a, you know, a Bale of hay or straw or
(28:21):
something like that, which really isn't all that much
cushioning dropping, you know, 810 feet, you know, so injuries
were abound, you know, and then that certainly didn't help them
be able to get away once they, you know, if they were lucky
enough to to be, you know, land gracefully or be abducted
gracefully and they weren't overmedicated or drug to the point
where, you know, they were injured again by that or, you
(28:42):
know, harmed by it. You know, there were certainly
some able bodied guys who got out.
And that was the point to say that, you know, once they
started getting word out, then they didn't have as many
options, you know, with men. So they started kidnapping or
Shanghai and women, you know. If you were Shanghai it onto a
ship, you had two choices. You know it was work or you
probably wouldn't get fed and like you like.
(29:05):
Yeah, your your work was relatedto your care and and your
conditioning of what you're. And if you didn't help work, you
weren't going to get home anywaybecause, yeah, the ship wouldn't
go anywhere. So yeah, it's you weren't.
You'd have a lot of choices, yeah.
Yeah, who knows how many, you know, made it to wherever the
the, the the Far East destination for the ship was and
(29:26):
jumped there instead. You know it.
It seems like it was just this endless cycle.
Might that be Shanghai? Yes, yes, it is.
That's actually how it became. Most of the ships were going to
China and Shanghai was a major port.
So yes, that is there is a direct die there.
I'm glad you put that together. I was waiting.
Yeah, I noticed that we haven't had a road trip request on this
(29:47):
one though. Well, Bert wants to go to work,
so I mean, I have to get there somehow.
That's true. You know, the, the thing about
this to me and, and it and it's kind of like I said it earlier,
like, you know, criminals find away to be criminals, you know,
like they pivoted, you know, when, when there was the
windowing supply of male suspects, you know, or victims,
(30:09):
they moved to women. And all the while, though, there
was gambling, there was drug dealing, there was all kinds of
stuff happening underground. And these tunnels are vast.
If you pull up a map of of Portland, the Merchant Hotel is
still there. It's, it's again, it's Old Town
Pizza now. It's one of those iconic places.
Everybody knows where it is in downtown in Old Town, you know,
(30:31):
it's probably about 1/4 mile to the docks where the docks would
have been then there. It's not the same now because of
technology and advancements and such.
But you know, they don't really have ships coming in like they
did then. You know, it's quarter mile,
half a mile at the most. You know, these tunnels weren't
extraordinarily long, but they also branched in different
directions. So it was going straight to the
river was also creating rooms and asides areas where there
would be storage perhaps. But once it stopped being
(30:53):
storage and it became like a room that you would have a cart
table at or a game table at or you'll be able to do a deal in,
you know, and that's kind of like, you know, the activity to
kind of fill the gaps. You know, instead of having the
intention, you know, it kind of got overtaken.
And you know, most of the most of the locations along the the
tunnels where they came out to or in the the basement of bars
(31:16):
and salons and coming out on Main Street like a subway
station, you know, like it just pop up along the stairs.
You're coming out of some place into some place or out of some
place where, you know, there there was just an opportunity.
So it was all about money. You know, there was, there was
an opportunity to make it and take it either way.
And, and they certainly did. And there were no concern to the
(31:38):
risks of lives. They were, you know, placing on
the line there. Birds.
It's a little too far to drive unless we get a bus and make 100
and make haunted stops along theway.
We can have a hell of a road trip, that's for sure.
But but Todd's like definitely no road trip.
OK, that's fair. It's it's more like a flight.
(31:58):
So. You know, in Portland, Portland,
it happened in place, you know, now, and it was then too, for
the matter of where it was or what it was.
But, you know, nowadays it, it's, it's that kind of, you
know, if anybody's ever been to Austin, TX, you know, their,
their slogan is keep Austin weird.
I think Portland's is keep Austin, keep Portland weirder,
you know, in a good way, You know, it's, it's eclectic, it's
(32:20):
it's artsy, it's light. It's got a really good, you
know, and the Rose City has a reputation, but it also was
known once as the Forbidden City.
And because, you know, the activity was there and it was it
was something where you would the forbidden being taking you
to China. You know, China was the
forbidden land. So it's really interesting how
how it's cleaned of lack of better way of saying it cleaned
(32:40):
up its act through the years, but we're talking still in the
mid 1900s until the activity finally settled down.
You know, really World War 2 brought about the the full final
closure of the tunnels. And it's an interesting point to
say. Why is that?
You know, as much as we built, you know, guard towers on the
East Coast, there weren't as much of that on the West Coast.
(33:01):
But, you know, there was concernthat that someone could
literally sail up the Columbia River and into the William and
get to Portland and find their way into the tunnels and
infiltrate the city. So closing it down was, was a
part of national security and, you know, because it got closed
down in the, in the 40s and the early 50s, you know, many folks
forgot about it because it wasn't needed for what it was
(33:22):
Then, you know, the, the commerce part of it went away
because we now had overland transportation that was more
efficient and we didn't have the, you know, the criminal
element wasn't there because thetunnels had already been sealed.
So people kind of lost it for a generation or so, you know,
until somewhere in the 70s and, and early 80s, if, you know,
people started to rediscover what it what it was.
And, you know, you got a wall that looks different than the
(33:44):
rest of the basement, you know, like an area of the wall.
And it's, that was where a door was, you know, and they started
knocking down stuff and finding there they are, right?
You know, it's a great example of urban exploring, right?
You know, Hey, what's this? Where's this go?
Just start trekking for real. It sounds like a perfect place
for David. It does.
I thought of him the whole way through this.
(34:04):
I really did. So, you know, it's, it's it's
definitely something and I, you know, that part of it that
excite to me, that's kind of cool.
You know, and I think we talked about this before Tala and, and
you brought up in the pre show or the pre investigation
episode, you know, like it's, it's the perfect place for, you
know, legit or legal urban exploring now because of the
(34:25):
condition of the place. But, you know, this is one of
those things and they they are, they're serious about not
letting people in, you know, access wise, just on their own
because of the hazards and dangers.
You know, they don't want you tobecome a, you know, a resident
spirit there. There are dangerous areas.
We definitely were. Oh yeah, introduced to some that
were questionable. Yes, yeah, we, we sure were.
(34:48):
Yeah. And for Todd and Carmela, make
sure you get over in the off thewing into the unexplored region,
whatever they call it, your guides will tell you.
But is wasn't, you know, truly. Where where an edge is Yeah,
yeah. Wear good shoes that are you
don't mind getting wet. Yeah, so well, yeah.
(35:10):
So that's that's a lot, a lot ofit.
What do you think, Sir? I've I've talked for, you know,
a good 35 minutes here or so about it.
So what's your opinion? I mean, I definitely there
again, it's it's one of those places that has so much energy
and so much, I mean, I don't want to say there there wasn't a
lot of good energy from what washappening there originally.
(35:31):
Again, intent was it for it to be a useful good place, but it
turned into a bad place. So with with what what happened
there? What went through there?
Yeah, I'm sure there's there's hauntings and and energy and and
things like that. So yeah, there my my vote is
(35:54):
yes. I'm sure it's haunted.
I'm sure there's things that happen still so.
I say the same. I, I think you're going to ask
me a paranormal or not, are active or not, I'm going to say
yes. You know, I, I can for the, the
decades of, you know, 100 years worth of activity and you know,
bad stuff happened to the people.
You know, there are there are folks who went in there and
never came out and all the all the negative activity or the
(36:18):
negative energy of the active, you know, the crimps and the
others, you know, the just a criminal element alone.
You know, there there are there are a few stories they didn't
share. I have to share this comment,
but yeah. And Carmela, 24 hour challenge,
24 hour challenge to sleep in the tunnels.
Yes, I'm in on that. I will do it.
(36:40):
So, you know, but all of that stuff, you know, elements add up
and, and there's stories that I didn't include of like people
claiming to see, you know, like like shadow figures with red
eyes, you know, and I'm like, you know, I, I'm not
discrediting it. I can't, I wasn't there.
I don't know, you know, that's kind of one of those, you know,
it could be a lot of things. It could be an, an animal with
(37:00):
eyes shine. There's, there's a few things,
you know, that come to mind immediately that would not be
paranormal, but it's interesting, you know, and, and
once, once you're in a place like this, you know, it's like
we said before, you know, sometimes you just need to sit
down and be quiet for a while, you know, and, and during an
investigation and let the place tell you what story, you know,
(37:21):
and it comes to you, you know, it's like when you give people a
chance to tell you something about themselves, they, they,
they jet, you're off, you know, but you have to let it happen.
You know, it's, it's sometimes it's organic versus forced.
And I think that's this kind of place, you know, if you're just,
if you have the ability to be there and, and in some extended
window of time, you know, you'reon a tour, you know, you get a
window like an hour, hour and a half, two hours, whatever it is,
(37:42):
you know, But when you get the place to yourself, like for the
24 hour challenge, you know, that's totally different.
Right, so, Heather says. I bet the residual energy in the
tunnel is crazy. Yes.
Agreed. Completely agree.
And my my guess is some place like that's going to be more
residual than everything else. I would think so too.
Well, you never know. That's why you got to go.
(38:06):
Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to step back for a
second to to this comment from Todd and Carmella.
This is going back to the toddler comments.
Did you have access to the morgue in the medical buildings?
Not we stayed in the main building, which is there's a lot
of course, you know, with four floors and, you know, wings left
and right and wings on top of wings on top of wings, Who
knows? There's places grows and grows
(38:27):
on you. But you do have access to go to
the, the area where the lobotomyrecovery and also into the
surgical ward. So yes.
And then in also in the surgicalward is the hydrotherapy rooms.
So there's, there's a good amount of that.
But the others I believe are in other buildings which are like a
separate. Yeah.
(38:48):
That. Yeah, the criminal, the
criminal, the criminal building what they.
Call it but criminally insane building.
Thank you. Yeah, there's all separate from
the main building. Yeah, Somebody, I can't remember
who it was, was suggesting a A2 night Tala investigation where
you go do the main building and then you go do the other
(39:08):
buildings. So that was.
Me. No, we had a.
Comment We had conversations around it with our group of like
a three or four night event. You know where you you really.
Have somebody, somebody on Facebook was actually had
proposed that and was like looking into it.
(39:28):
OK, well, you know, and I can't argue that, you know, the idea
of any place really, you know, and I, I think when we watch,
you know, all the paranormal shows, you know, we know this
from talking to the people who are on them.
You know, like it's not just they don't just show up for one
day and then they're, you know, they film it and then everything
they got is there that time it'shighly active or, you know,
whatever happens is all like, because they're there, they're
(39:50):
there for a Week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks at times, you know, and
that's because that's what it takes literally to have, you
know, first of all, you know, we, you have to build some kind
of rapport. You know, you're a stranger
talking to strangers. So, you know, you don't know
each other. There's, there's that in a, in a
low, a place that doesn't have awhole lot of activity.
Sometimes it's because the, the,the spirits that are there don't
understand the equipment that you're trying to get them to
(40:11):
use. And it takes a little time to
learn. You know, you don't pick up
everything immediately and none of us do some, you know,
sometimes we do I'm wrong. But you know, it's, it's one of
those things where you just haveto have that grace period.
And you know, it is, this is never, ever, ever in the field
on demand thing. You know, it just, it has to be
organic. So I love the idea of having
(40:32):
multiple days. We just don't have the ability
to, to do that with the way we, we operate in places, operate
around us, you know, without everything costs something,
right. So, you know, if if I had
$1,000,000, I wouldn't be there.Todd, Todd and Carmela said orbs
in the tunnel question mark. There's, there's reports, of
course, you know, and, and everytime an orb comes up, I go back
(40:56):
to our orbs episode and, you know, I start thinking of things
like backscatter where there's just moisture.
You know, you're, you are underground under the, under
the, the water in the water table at this point.
So you know, there's a possibility of it.
You know, some of the collapses are due to to water problems.
So it's possible. Certainly I'm never going to say
an orbs don't exist, but it's fine that I just, I have trouble
(41:18):
believing them. And I know we've had that.
You know, Todd and I had that conversation already.
We'll, we'll look, we'll look athis new capture and see what he
what he's got. Yeah, I'd love to see it.
Looking forward to it so well. Any any other thoughts Jamie?
I, I think we got it. So, you know, I appreciate the
(41:38):
opportunity to, to go and, and dig into this one.
You know, it's, it's something I've been aware of for a long
time, you know, and just just finally found time to, to pick
it up and get it on the episode.So thanks.
Thanks for indulging me here. Of course, Bird says he he's got
5 weeks vacation. He's in retire.
Yeah, I wish I have 4:00. So, you know, all right, baby,
(42:05):
maybe next year. What's that?
Maybe next year. Maybe next year.
Well, should we talk about what's coming up, Jamie?
Yeah, sure. Let's go.
All right, so upcoming episodes,we've got Landon Legend
Paranormal next week confirmed with Stacey tonight.
So she's looking forward to it and there's a reason we're doing
(42:27):
that that that ties into our investigation.
So we'll cover that in a little bit.
Then you're doing the Morris Jamel mansion.
Then I'm going to jump into the divot box, then Men in black and
then here's a something we talked in one of the guests are
one of the people who watches our show throughout many Hunay.
(42:50):
When we talked about some of theother spirits like the the
Hawaiian ones, they threw this out.
So we're going to I'm going to give that a shot and see what I
can find out. I'm looking forward to that
because I did a little quick research and it it could be a
lot of fun. So I'm.
Happy you said Manahune, right? Yes, we've got several weeks to
(43:13):
practice it too. So that's right.
So then we've, oh, I jumped ahead.
Then we've got, we talked about Landon Legend next week, but
we're doing a combined Peri unity event with them at the
brewery on May 17th. So Stacy and Gary from Landon
(43:35):
Legend, they do have a podcast. Jamie, you said you caught a
little bit of it the other night.
Do you remember the name of it? I always blank.
Oh no, I had it. I had it a second ago.
It'll come back to you. I saw it, I can find it very
quickly. You know, I should have it in my
(43:55):
notes when when we do this, but my apologies.
It's the rest experience. The Rest Experience podcast.
Yes, thank you. And it's actually a lot of fun.
I've, I've listened to a couple episodes today actually, you
know, during my work day. So I'm fortunate if I can have
earbuds in and earbuds even callthem it anymore Earpods in and
(44:18):
that was that was that dug in and I I've found myself enjoying
quite a bit. So we're good.
Very cool. Good.
Well, we'll talk with them next week and I'm looking forward to
it. Stacy's an interesting person
and does Reiki and is a sensitive and so I'm sure she's
going to have a lot to share. Yeah, actually I'm done a little
(44:39):
bit about her background. As far as you know, we all have
day jobs and what she does theretoo.
And it's an interesting tie in as well.
So I'm I'm looking forward to this conversation as well.
Yeah. So as we said, May 17th we're at
the brewery with a Peri unity event.
June 28th we are at the Haunted Crescent Sanatorium in Prison
Paracon. The 26th of July we're at the
(45:01):
brewery and then August 16th we're back at the brewery.
So at least that's what we've got scheduled at this point.
Yep. And then, you know, like we
talked to earlier, we'll be at the Horror, the The Haunted
Crescent Horror and Paracon. It's a mouthful.
Isn't it? It is.
That's a lot. So there, there's that going on.
(45:27):
Bert just reminded me that next weekend is the White Hill
Paracon Saturday. Unfortunately, it's something we
have a family event that day, somost of my mornings going to be
tied up and into the afternoon. So hopefully I can get over
there in the afternoon, but I don't.
I'm not making any promises. I'd love to see everybody, but I
(45:49):
don't think it's going to happen.
I'm in, I'm, I'm in the same place you are with that, like
physically and literally. Yeah, imagine that.
Saturday morning thing so can't it can't miss opportunity and
and I was informed that there isa another family member, a
cousin in a dance recital in theevening.
So that's that's pretty much locked me down.
Yep, that is correct. So so, but we will be at the
(46:12):
that one, the the Crescent event.
So and then you know how to findus on social media, but here you
go. It's Facebook, YouTube, you
found us. We're on TikTok, Instagram.
You can e-mail us at paranormallenspodcast@gmail.com
and find us on Spotify, Apple podcast, all those fun things.
(46:36):
So Yep. We're out there.
So, so Berts is there there during the day and during the
investigation that night that sounds like?
Perfect. That's a good day.
A very good day. All right.
Todd said he enjoyed the show and stories about being
Shanghai. A multi day Tala investigation
would be nice. You know, so you you enjoy the
(46:58):
rest of your week too. We'll put that on.
We'll put that on the wish list.So yeah, have a great night,
guys. Thanks for coming SO.
Anything else, Jamie? No, I think we, we hit it all.
So, you know, again, thanks for everybody for joining us.
You know, we always appreciate your, your journey with us and,
and coming along. You know, the fun stuff we're
(47:19):
bringing up soon is, is all partof, you know, a plan.
But if there's something you want to hear us do or cover, you
know, in a place, a location andopportunity, you know, just feel
free to reach out. You know, the, the e-mail
address goes to apparently this goes to Chad at this point, but
he'll read it and he'll he'll share it with me, I'm sure, or
leave a comment in one of the episodes.
You know, we certainly also, we both see that, you know, so with
(47:42):
that, you know, or if it's a personal story of your own,
we'll be happy to bring it on and, and you want to share it
with us. So, you know, we're always,
we're always looking for the next thing.
And, you know, we have a long list of stuff you don't get to
see yet. But you know, we add up on it
every week because you see the the week's episodes fly by, But
you know, it's always room for more.
The paranormal field is is best and wide and we're happy to
(48:04):
cover it for you. So just let us know, yeah.
So, all right. Well, on that note, we will see
everybody next Tuesday right here and we'll be talking to
Lind and Legend and Paranormal. Looking forward to it.
See you all then. Good night.
The. Hey, welcome to this week's
episode of Paranormal Lens presented by Jot Next
Paranormal. I am Jamie Whitener.
I'll be your host tonight along with Chad Thomas or or we know
is that guy over there? What's happening to Chad?
(00:58):
How you doing? I'm all right.
How are you, Jamie? I am.
I'm hanging on. It has been a week and two days
already, so you know, my goodness, I know you had a a
busy weekend. You want to want to share what
you did Saturday by by chance? Let's see.
Oh, we had an investigation at the brewery.
(01:18):
Is that what you're talking about?
That is exactly. Yeah, yeah.
We had a a good group at the brewery.
Most of them didn't make it the whole night, but that's OK.
We had one group leave before last.
By being tired or. Well, yes, yeah, I should get.
Into the fear role there somewhere.
I should clarify that they were,they got tired.
(01:39):
The first one group left for theat the end of the second
session. And then during like my group
sort of dwindled away during thelast session.
And, you know, it was like, well, there's just the two of us
and one of our friends with us now.
So, so yeah, it was, but it was a good time.
We had a little bit of activity,not not a whole lot.
(02:00):
There was other things going on at the brewery that I think
sucked energy out and just, yeah, it was.
But it was, you know, it's always a good night at the
brewery. Never a bad time to be there,
you're right. Exactly.
Well, I did. I did something that was not
paranormal, but it but it could have been OK.
So I went to the Fulton Theatre.So we know we already talked
(02:21):
about the Fulton here before. You know, obviously it's a it's
an age-old active theater. And I got to see a play called
Forever Plaid, about four aspiring young men back in the
50s who are in a boy band of lack of better way of calling, a
Doo wop group, and a heading offto a gig in from Harrisburg to
(02:42):
Philadelphia and got hit by a bus and died.
So they came back though, for one last performance from the
great beyond, and that was the play itself.
So it's a fun musical. It's really a lot of fun.
Yeah, absolutely. And and, you know, there's
there's never a bad show at the Fulton, of course, either.
They don't, they don't, you know, they have, they have a
good track record of winners, but, you know, it's sort of
(03:04):
paranormally so paranormal stuff.
So I felt pretty good about it. Sorry I missed you guys, but
this was this was a previous commitment that I had to keep.
And that idea is a lot of fun. A lot of fun.
Really good show actually. Yeah, I did that show, oh, I
don't know how many years ago with the Fulton, but it was a
lot of fun then too. Mainstage then it was not
(03:24):
mainstage unfortunately, but Anastasia is playing on the
mainstage right now. So they, they kind of, you know,
they have it cornered, but upstairs in the 4th floor, nice
small space. Intimate crowd, but that's
that's, that's a good show to have in that sort of an intimate
space too, because you feel likeyou were right.
Yeah. Yeah, some.
Some crowd interactions. Of course.
It brought a lady on stage and she hammed it up perfectly.
(03:46):
Oh well. Good.
You know, and all the all the fun of it.
So was say hi to Todd and Carmella and Bert's with this of
course. Hey.
Guys, good evening. So Jamie Bert sent me a couple
of clips from Tala. Oh, so he'd so actually send
them to the paranormal lens thing.
So I got to make sure that you're getting those.
I don't think they automatically.
(04:06):
Yeah, I think it's it's just youat this point.
So, OK, I didn't see them anyway.
Maybe I don't have credentials, might have them, but I don't
know what they are. I should say it that way.
Well, I I can set them up that they forward to you.
We'll OK, I know we'll work thisout.
You know, people, you got peopleeither way, all right.
And Jim's here. Hey, Jim, good evening.
Good to see you. You know, it like everything's
(04:30):
great until it doesn't work, right?
You don't know it's not working until someone says, hey, did you
get that right? Yeah.
OK, cool. I'm looking forward to seeing
this. You know, as far as, as far away
as we get from it, it's still I,I I can't speak for you or
anybody else who was with us, but it's still on my mind being
there. And that, that's unusual for me
(04:52):
at least, you know, coming out of the investigation, you know,
because we move on, we have things, you know, I've done it
since then. We've had investigations of our
own since then, you know, and it's been a couple weeks and
man, it's just, I can't, I can'tnot think about it, you know,
like not, not in a bad way and not in a good way.
It's just it's present in the back of my mind, everyone's
life, like as myself remembering, you know,
(05:13):
experiences there. That's a cool thing, you know,
to have that leave it like an impression on your imprint on
you. So I think that means we have to
go back. Yep, for me at least, I have to
go back. Something resolved there.
Todd and Carmela go Friday. Maybe you know, that's right.
It's. All cool.
All right, Well, maybe, hey, yougot to pass through Pennsylvania
to get there, so maybe I'll justhop a ride.
(05:35):
Well, I remember one other thingwe had we got from the
investigation on Saturday night on the catacombs.
Alex and I were teamed up and wewere down there with a a family.
It was pretty, the whole group was pretty much a family and a
girl and a boyfriend there. And they were sitting up against
the candle wall in the lower over in the corner sort of by
(05:59):
where the, the, the trapdoor, not trapdoor, but the thing that
goes down to the, so they were sitting at the table there
against the wall. And you know, we're talking
about how it got chilly. And they're, they're like the
girl goes, my left side just gotreally cold.
And the guy looks at her and goes, my right side just got
(06:21):
really cold. Alex, Alex, go grab your thermal
'cause he's got a good thermal camera.
So he grabs it and in between the two of them, there is some
sort of shape of a very cold spot.
Wow. And it's even cold.
You know the the back wall is cold because.
(06:41):
It's right. That's Rockwall, right?
It's darker than the the back wall.
Oh, so definitely an anomaly then.
Yeah, definitely in A room. Yeah, it's actually in the team,
the team chat, so you'll have tocheck it out.
They're dreaming. How to get there?
Today was a blur. So anyway, but yeah, it was, it
was that was pretty interesting.And we smelled cigarette smoke
(07:03):
down there. And the the girl who was sitting
there actually was like, I feel like I just smoked a cigarette
like that burn in the back of mythroat.
And we were all smelling the smoke.
So there was definitely something going on down there.
So. So anyway, yeah.
And Todd and Carmela when I comeback.
(07:24):
Anytime, my friends, anytime. And Heather's joined us tonight,
so. Good to see you.
Good to see you. So, but anyway, instead of
talking about what we've done recently, Jamie, what have you
found? I want to, I want to say
something before we move on to the topic tonight.
I, I got a chance to look back at last week's episode and, and
I really want to just take a minute to say thanks again to
(07:45):
Shawna Rigby for joining us and talking about the DOS house.
She had in hindsight, in retrospect, you know, we're in
the moment, You don't always getto absorb all the conversation,
But I, I think she has a really great perspective on two things.
One, the how, how things should be done in the paranormal field
and the way to do it being two different things.
You know, the, the whole cultureof family and you know, anybody
(08:08):
who wants to come along can you know, and the whole journey of
finding a place like they have and then just making it be
available, you know, just say open the door and, you know,
obviously you have to make reservations.
It's a paid event kind of thing,but the pricing is so low that I
think anybody can afford it, especially in a group setting,
you know, and just the access that they're providing to that.
I, I just, I was really, I, I, you know, I didn't sink in fully
(08:30):
in the moment last week. And, and, you know, we obviously
we say thanks and everything forour guests and, and, you know,
she brought such a lot of information to us, but in
hindsight, I, I was, that was such a great moment of just what
a cool person, what a cool group.
And they're really, they're really doing it right and kudos
to them. So, OK, so let's talk about
(08:50):
tonight though. So we are here to talk about the
Portland tunnels and many may not know them as that they may
be more familiar known as the from more familiarly known as
the Shanghai tunnels, but both are the same I assure you.
So where are we in the world? We are in old Chinatown in
Portland, OR and the when is themid 1800s all the way through
(09:14):
the mid 1900s, so about 100 years of time.
OK. So I have a question for you
before we start. It's not a quiz, is it?
Well, no, no, but it's it's an honesty question, so answer
honestly. Have you ever gone out to a bar,
had one too many and woken up the next morning home in your
bed wondering how did I get here?
(09:38):
Yeah. Everybody raise your hand.
If this is you, I'm going to raise 2.
OK. So it's more than likely that
we've all done this at one time or another, and our return trip
was likely due to a friend or a partner or someone we trusted,
right? Or just good grace.
Who knows how, but hopefully it was one of the above not not
(09:59):
just luck. So imagine if you will, not
having that good friend and waking up the next morning not
in the cozy confines of your place, but in the hold of a ship
sailing far out to sea. OK, it's a different story.
Yeah, it's a different. Story So this is how the story
of many who have had one or maybe a few too many at the bars
(10:22):
and that filled downtown Portland, OR in the mid 1800s to
the mid 1900s unfolded. To best paint this picture,
let's look back at the Pacific Northwest.
At this time the area was booming with the lumber trade
and growing rapidly due to folkslooking to strike it rich and
mining in the nearby mountains. This influx of opportunity meant
that many able bodied men were making way more money than they
(10:45):
needed and as as well as as doing is what young men often
do, they were spending it in local salons.
Additionally, the local ship docks, the docks down in the
river were arriving from all over the world and since many of
their sailors jumped ship, many of the captains needed crew
members to be able to return to sea.
(11:06):
A need was often met when a drunken or even drugged saloon
patron was shanghaied or kidnapped and sold into slavery
to a ship heading down the Willamette River and under the
Columbia River and then out to sea.
The going rate from a ship captain at the time was $50 a
head, so thugs and slavers oftenmade easy money praying on these
poor unsuspecting fellows. To aid in this activity, many
(11:30):
local bartenders were conspirators, working with a
thug or crimp, as they were often called to drug an unlikely
candidate, making him easier to deal with.
Crimps would often jam the victims in the small wooden
cages with no food or water in the tunnels nearest the docks,
and after several days they would be given a drink of mostly
drugs, making it easy for them to get onto the waiting ships.
(11:52):
If the Shanghai men were lucky enough to wake up from the
concoction, they often found themselves chained to the bells
of a ship very far from shore. Unfortunately, some of those who
were Shanghai escaped and made it back to Portland to warn the
others, and as a result, it became more difficult to abduct
men, so the thugs turned their attention to women who were
alone in the salons. Countless numbers were abducted
(12:15):
to be kept in cages in the tunnels until sold into
prostitution to buyers outside the area.
During its heyday, it is believed that over 1500 people a
year disappeared through the Portland tunnels.
Because this is all illegal activity, there are no official
records to prove this right. So a kind of heavy thing, right?
And the tunnels were stretched out all over the downtown.
(12:40):
The important part of this was that Portland, as it was growing
and growing, growing, you know, it's a riverfront community.
The the Willamette River runs right by it, right through it.
And the idea was that not to congest the streets with carts
and wagons and, and all the bulkstuff that comes from the docks,
They were digging tunnels and creating tunnels under the
(13:00):
streets so that the goods and merchandises could be moved in
and out pretty quickly and easily without being in the way.
And the the city grew into having a streetcar system,
which, you know, that track set is challenging sometimes for
carts and even cars, especially in the day when the roads were
dirt, plus extra riding into theroad when you know there's a
rainy season in the Northwest. So, you know, the ruts would
(13:23):
would cause problems and also just people, there's a lot more
people there all the time. So they were just trying to get
stuff out of the out of the way and it was just easier to move
it that way, you know, and we'llget into a second.
But you know, like anything that's good, something bad can
be done with it. So it almost sounds like a Walt
Disney's Utili corridor idea. Yes, exactly.
(13:46):
Everybody moves, everything moves away from the sight of the
guests and the patrons. Absolutely.
That's a good, that's really good analogy.
So during Prohibition, the bar and saloon Crow hold.
On Jimmy, Bert wants to know where the tunnels.
Get there. Patience, Sir.
Patience needed retirement. Oh, crap.
(14:06):
OK, sure. Maybe.
All right, So moving ahead a little bit in time.
During Prohibition, the bar and saloon crews simply moved
underground to speakeasies located all through the tunnels,
making it hard for the few law enforcement officers that aren't
already in the payroll of local criminals to find them.
And that's kind of part of this too.
Like, you know, there's, there'sa, an underbelly, you know, the,
(14:29):
the, the dark community of this is that, you know, there are,
there's a lot of crime, therefore there's a lot of
people making money who have resources that can pay off
people who would prosecute or jail them.
And it's happening. The same opportunities to
gamble, purchase drugs in the services of women existed in the
tunnels as it would have had anysaloon above should they be
open. Old Chinatown also had many
(14:50):
different gangs who often had their own tunnels leading to the
docks. Through these tunnels, they
would sneak in immigrants and contraband such as drugs away
from the watchful eye of the local police as well as customs
immigration officers. There were were always things
coming and going through the tunnels.
Now, Ted, by now you're probablythinking, what does this have to
(15:11):
do with the paranormal, right? Would be paranormal lens.
We didn't talk about that. So one of the key locations
access the tunnels was and stillis through the Merchant Hotel
and this is one of those grand properties right smack in the
middle of downtown, the Old Town.
Here you may find a spirit called Nina who was who is still
(15:32):
the resident ghost. Nina's story is that she was
sold into prostitution of a thenthriving white slavery market.
She was approached by traveling missionaries to provide
information on those exploiting her in exchange for freedom from
the world's oldest profession. Seeing a chance to escape from a
pass she did not choose, she quickly accepted.
However, soon after Nina was found dead at the hotel.
(15:56):
She had been thrown down an openelevator shaft.
The Merchant Hotel has long since closed and is now the
location of Old Town Pizza. Nina, though, is still there,
and in the early morning or closing time is when she is most
active, floating and moving through the restaurant, moving
chairs as well as items on the tables and the kitchen.
To let employee, isn't it? And that she's still there when
(16:20):
it is still, the observant can observant person can hear her
delicate footsteps tap across the floor.
She has often seen either a white or black dress and carries
A faint smell of perfume when she is present.
Some other examples from portlandghosts.com.
Deep within the tunnels, travelers report the atmosphere
to be thick in some areas and having goosebumps as well as an
(16:42):
uneasy feeling as if someone they cannot see is watching them
from the shadows. In the tunnels, people report
seeing an Asian man quickly walking past them.
Explorers named the spirit Sam and say that he is responsible
for turning off the lights in the bar basements.
Sam also likes to move things around in the tunnels.
As explorers walk by. 1 tour guide reported hearing a voice
(17:04):
calling out the name Sam over and over again.
It echoed through the tunnel andscared his guests because his
entire group was behind him. He knew that it was not one of
them. He says it was one of the
scariest experience of his life.Most tunnel tourists say that
Sam is a good ghost and looks and look forward to feeling his
presence. Others report seeing quick
(17:27):
movements of shadows and feelingghostly fingers on their
shoulders when no one else is around.
Other tunnel spirits known as tricksters who just love to have
a good time. They will often pull at your
short tail or gently tug at the ends of your hair.
One guest reported feeling a small tug on her shirt before
she tripped. She was not injured, but it was
an experience she says she will never forget.
(17:48):
You never forget the first time you get touched, right?
You know, I still Remember Me. So.
Yeah. So it's off putting.
Well, most of the ghosts in the Shanghai tunnels are reportedly
friendly. There's.
It is still better to remain cautious.
Some people recall feeling unwelcome, like someone or
something is watching them. One man remembers hearing
childlike whistling just before he was thrown to the ground.
(18:11):
After standing up, he turned to see who had knocked him down.
Lifting his flashlight, he saw that no one was behind him.
Their man reported that it was the last time he would be
visiting the Shanghai tunnel. It doesn't take much, no, does
it? No, not at all.
And there's more. hauntedhouses.com Share these
stories in 19 O2 the drugged, burly treated Shanghai crew
(18:36):
around 100 men who were chained together in the bowels of the
four masted schooner. The Jennifer Joe died on board
when the ship sank in the Portland harbor, staring at the
tunnels, starting at the tunnelsnearest the water.
Every year, on the anniversary of their drowning at sea, they
rush back as a group, looking for those responsible, hoping to
get justice of some sort. Various witnesses have seen
(18:56):
them, heard them, and have actually touched by a cold wet
hand. Another a an evil and creepy
presence of a bartender, like a likely conspirator with the
local crimp. Mainly resides in the Lotus
nightclub basement, probably thesite of a prohibition bar,
though he also visits the main bar.
(19:16):
Though he hasn't hurt anyone, his aura isn't a nice one.
He gets his chuckles, scaring the employees.
Is to say employees don't go down to the basement alone.
One brave bartender was alone inthe club cleaning up after
closing. He went down to the basement
where he heard the CO2 canister going off by itself in the bar
upstairs. He hurried upstairs and found a
(19:37):
single shot glass turned upside down on the bar.
Getting that last drink and lastcall.
There it is. During the prohibition years,
the gangsters ran a Speakeasy out of one of the basements of
the businesses connected to the tunnel that runs between ringers
on Stark Ave. and the Crystal ballroom located on Burnside St.
(19:57):
Terror reigned when a rival gangshowed up wearing stolen
Portland policeman office uniforms armed with Tommy guns
and axes. People at this party and the
gangsters who ran escaped down the tunnel which the killers
with the killers close behind them.
All was lost though when the frightened people came to a
narrowing of the tunnel and theywere massacred along with the
(20:17):
gangsters without mercy to leaveno witnesses.
In the Scooter Mcquade's Bar andGrill, a group personal
experience happened. A brave group went down to the
basement and put their ears uponthe bricked up doorway to the
tunnel. They heard a chorus of terrified
cries and moans getting louder and louder, coming right at the
(20:39):
door they were listening at. They scurried upstairs and then
witnesses witnessed the glowing entities rushed through the pub
but never quite making it outside before disappearing.
Others claim that this group appears coming out of the
basement in a panic. They're glowing, almost human
shapes rushed through the pub, brushing up, brushing by patrons
and knocking over drinks and knocking down chairs as they
(21:02):
make a mad dash for the door. This is our group that was
massacred. So there is there's a lot and
not a lot at the same time here because unfortunately the
tunnels have been sealed for themost part, although there are
(21:23):
now restoration projects in handto, to open up history
basically, you know, or for access, you know, the problem
with this and you've seen a lot of the, the slides here, you
know, the tunnels are either really rough shape, meaning they
were never reinforced, you know,with, with struts and
buttressing and therefore they've collapsed or at least
(21:44):
are partially collapsed. So passage is challenging.
You know, any time you work underground, you're at risk.
You know, go back to the Tommy knockers episode.
You know, there's no Tommy knockers in these caves areas,
you know, helping out or supporting the miners or the
diggers. Most of these were done by
people who weren't professionals, you know, in the,
far as the, the track, the tricks in the trade and the
(22:06):
craft of, of actually digging tunnels and mines like shafts
and such. So, you know, there's, and it's
been 150 years, so 170 years actually by now.
So it's, you know, time is done.It's told even on the ones that
were created well, and most of them are under the, the, under
the water table. So there's been, you know,
issues just with erosion and corrosion to the materials that
(22:28):
were put there. You know, so it's, it's a, it's
a, it's a lengthy process to to bring them back in.
But there are currently about 1400 square feet of tunnels open
and available and tours are available on a regular basis.
So let me get through some more material here and I'll, I'll
wrap up. So the original intent for the
Portland tunnels was a way to move goods between the docks and
the inner cities. So it's not to congest the
(22:50):
streets that were already bustling with streetcars and
citizens. Like many best intention
intended plans, criminals soon found a way to turn things to
their advantage. Given the miles of original
tunnels and the fairest reason why people would be in them, I
find it hard to believe there isn't activity, especially from
those still trying to find the way out.
If you go, please know that you cannot get into the tunnels
without a guide. And there are two groups
(23:11):
offering tours. Check out the Cascade Historical
Society or the Portland Walking Tours For more information.
We'll cite some sources we'll discuss.
So the newyorktimes.com. Travelportland.com,
shanghaitunnels.com, portlandghost.com,
legendsofamerica.com and hauntedhouses.com.
(23:37):
OK. There is a lot of there's a lot
of stuff. Information wise is really cool.
It sounds like it. So I'm going to go back to
Bert's comment before we go any further.
So, so you answered that about the, you know, there's parts of
the tunnels open. So my question is a does he want
to be Shanghai and work on a ship, right?
Does he want to be a Shanghai? Uh, what other?
What were the? What were they called?
(24:00):
He wants to be a. He could, yeah.
Or maybe he just wants to be a tour guide.
Jamie, maybe? That's true, yeah.
There's so many options here. But but yes Bert, there are
options. Yeah.
Well, you know, on the first one, the the part of the
problem, I guess for like a better way of saying it is that,
you know, when you were when youwere working a ship in the
1800s, you know, it was, it's a wooden ship and it's a, it's a
(24:21):
sail ship. It's a master chip.
And you know, it takes a lot of work.
It's a lot of hands to do the work.
As we moved into the 1900s in the, at least the early part of
the century, you know, we, we moved from sail to steam and
less manpower was needed because, you know, the, the ship
was powered differently. You know, we're raising and
lowering sales, doing all the tac work and all the stuff that
(24:43):
went with it. So it became less.
But when you were on the sea, you know, you were basically
coming from, say, Asia over, youknow, and then the, the West
Coast of the US is, is the stopping point to unload and re
refit and reload and takes up back, you know, sailors are in
contracts and sometimes the contract expired by the time
they got back, or sometimes theywere over it because the journey
(25:04):
took a little longer. Other times people were still in
an early part of their, their, their contract journey, but they
didn't like the work and therefore they jumped ship, you
know, and it's pretty easy to disappear, you know, once you
get into town, you can just change clothes and go up, you
know, on your own, you know, youdon't have to wear a uniform or
anything. So I think, I think that was
part of the problem, you know, and necessity came from it of
(25:27):
how OK, what do we do then, you know?
We have to have a crew to go back The the other part of that
is living on a ship is very you've got the work, but you
also have just living on a ship.You're in cramped quarters,
you're in hammocks. In that time you were in
hammocks. There were strung like so many
people in a room. It was crowded.
(25:49):
Scurvy was a a real thing, you know, because you didn't have
fresh fruits and vegetables. You were eating dried meats,
dry, you know, it was all stuff that could be barreled and then
saved for a journey. And fresh, fresh fruits and
vegetables were a limited thing.The work was hard.
(26:10):
The weather was hard. You were pitching a Dead Sea.
Like sea, say, like so. Yeah, I, I I get where they
needed crew. Cause who who better to replace
them? You know, you're talking like
lumberjacks. You're talking about minors who
are, are hard workers and you know, they're, they're certainly
blue collar, what we would call today, you know, individuals who
could handle themselves and knewhow to use tools and such.
(26:32):
And, you know, once you're out there, you know, once you're out
in the sea, at least, you know, I, I took a cruise a few years
ago, many years ago now, I guessbecause I'm getting getting
there, I'm getting to the age where things don't seem like
long ago, but like 12 years ago,15 years.
Ago is a long time. And with with an X now of mine.
But she said the funniest thing was like, you know, the cruise
(26:55):
was from Miami down to the Bahamas and back to Key West.
Just a short three day trip. She liked that she chose that
cruise or wanted to take that cruise because the ship would be
close enough to land and if it started to sink she could swim
back. OK.
So, and, and you know, it seems,it seems good on paper, however,
you realize that you're miles out, you know, they get in
(27:17):
international waters and that's part of the the trip because
there's a casino on the ship, you know, they have to be
international waters. Promote gambling or loud
gambling. Which is which is typically 20
miles. Yeah, that's, that's a little
more and I'm going to swim, you know, But the idea of it was
that. And I'm like, no, that's not how
this works. We're not cruising the
coastline. We're going out.
That's where it ties into Todd and Carmela's question here.
(27:39):
Wonder how many that got? Shanghai jumped overboard.
Well, some, certainly some, not all.
And part of the problem was, well, the problem for them,
those who are shanghaied, was that because they were drug, you
know, and some of some were suffering injuries and wounds
from being shanghaied first before they actually made it to
the ship, you know, to get to the holding area, most of the
(28:00):
bars had dead drops or trapdoors, you know, and then
you said trapdoor earlier for the for the basement and as
catacombs, you know, it's not that it's, it's a great cover,
but you know, they would, they would get to a place in the room
and then the other four would just fall out from under room.
And sometimes there was a mattress, probably not.
Sometimes it was a, you know, a Bale of hay or straw or
(28:21):
something like that, which really isn't all that much
cushioning dropping, you know, 810 feet, you know, so injuries
were abound, you know, and then that certainly didn't help them
be able to get away once they, you know, if they were lucky
enough to to be, you know, land gracefully or be abducted
gracefully and they weren't overmedicated or drug to the point
where, you know, they were injured again by that or, you
(28:42):
know, harmed by it. You know, there were certainly
some able bodied guys who got out.
And that was the point to say that, you know, once they
started getting word out, then they didn't have as many
options, you know, with men. So they started kidnapping or
Shanghai and women, you know. If you were Shanghai it onto a
ship, you had two choices. You know it was work or you
probably wouldn't get fed and like you like.
(29:05):
Yeah, your your work was relatedto your care and and your
conditioning of what you're. And if you didn't help work, you
weren't going to get home anywaybecause, yeah, the ship wouldn't
go anywhere. So yeah, it's you weren't.
You'd have a lot of choices, yeah.
Yeah, who knows how many, you know, made it to wherever the
the, the the Far East destination for the ship was and
(29:26):
jumped there instead. You know it.
It seems like it was just this endless cycle.
Might that be Shanghai? Yes, yes, it is.
That's actually how it became. Most of the ships were going to
China and Shanghai was a major port.
So yes, that is there is a direct die there.
I'm glad you put that together. I was waiting.
Yeah, I noticed that we haven't had a road trip request on this
(29:47):
one though. Well, Bert wants to go to work,
so I mean, I have to get there somehow.
That's true. You know, the, the thing about
this to me and, and it and it's kind of like I said it earlier,
like, you know, criminals find away to be criminals, you know,
like they pivoted, you know, when, when there was the
windowing supply of male suspects, you know, or victims,
(30:09):
they moved to women. And all the while, though, there
was gambling, there was drug dealing, there was all kinds of
stuff happening underground. And these tunnels are vast.
If you pull up a map of of Portland, the Merchant Hotel is
still there. It's, it's again, it's Old Town
Pizza now. It's one of those iconic places.
Everybody knows where it is in downtown in Old Town, you know,
(30:31):
it's probably about 1/4 mile to the docks where the docks would
have been then there. It's not the same now because of
technology and advancements and such.
But you know, they don't really have ships coming in like they
did then. You know, it's quarter mile,
half a mile at the most. You know, these tunnels weren't
extraordinarily long, but they also branched in different
directions. So it was going straight to the
river was also creating rooms and asides areas where there
would be storage perhaps. But once it stopped being
(30:53):
storage and it became like a room that you would have a cart
table at or a game table at or you'll be able to do a deal in,
you know, and that's kind of like, you know, the activity to
kind of fill the gaps. You know, instead of having the
intention, you know, it kind of got overtaken.
And you know, most of the most of the locations along the the
tunnels where they came out to or in the the basement of bars
(31:16):
and salons and coming out on Main Street like a subway
station, you know, like it just pop up along the stairs.
You're coming out of some place into some place or out of some
place where, you know, there there was just an opportunity.
So it was all about money. You know, there was, there was
an opportunity to make it and take it either way.
And, and they certainly did. And there were no concern to the
(31:38):
risks of lives. They were, you know, placing on
the line there. Birds.
It's a little too far to drive unless we get a bus and make 100
and make haunted stops along theway.
We can have a hell of a road trip, that's for sure.
But but Todd's like definitely no road trip.
OK, that's fair. It's it's more like a flight.
(31:58):
So. You know, in Portland, Portland,
it happened in place, you know, now, and it was then too, for
the matter of where it was or what it was.
But, you know, nowadays it, it's, it's that kind of, you
know, if anybody's ever been to Austin, TX, you know, their,
their slogan is keep Austin weird.
I think Portland's is keep Austin, keep Portland weirder,
you know, in a good way, You know, it's, it's eclectic, it's
(32:20):
it's artsy, it's light. It's got a really good, you
know, and the Rose City has a reputation, but it also was
known once as the Forbidden City.
And because, you know, the activity was there and it was it
was something where you would the forbidden being taking you
to China. You know, China was the
forbidden land. So it's really interesting how
how it's cleaned of lack of better way of saying it cleaned
(32:40):
up its act through the years, but we're talking still in the
mid 1900s until the activity finally settled down.
You know, really World War 2 brought about the the full final
closure of the tunnels. And it's an interesting point to
say. Why is that?
You know, as much as we built, you know, guard towers on the
East Coast, there weren't as much of that on the West Coast.
(33:01):
But, you know, there was concernthat that someone could
literally sail up the Columbia River and into the William and
get to Portland and find their way into the tunnels and
infiltrate the city. So closing it down was, was a
part of national security and, you know, because it got closed
down in the, in the 40s and the early 50s, you know, many folks
forgot about it because it wasn't needed for what it was
(33:22):
Then, you know, the, the commerce part of it went away
because we now had overland transportation that was more
efficient and we didn't have the, you know, the criminal
element wasn't there because thetunnels had already been sealed.
So people kind of lost it for a generation or so, you know,
until somewhere in the 70s and, and early 80s, if, you know,
people started to rediscover what it what it was.
And, you know, you got a wall that looks different than the
(33:44):
rest of the basement, you know, like an area of the wall.
And it's, that was where a door was, you know, and they started
knocking down stuff and finding there they are, right?
You know, it's a great example of urban exploring, right?
You know, Hey, what's this? Where's this go?
Just start trekking for real. It sounds like a perfect place
for David. It does.
I thought of him the whole way through this.
(34:04):
I really did. So, you know, it's, it's it's
definitely something and I, you know, that part of it that
excite to me, that's kind of cool.
You know, and I think we talked about this before Tala and, and
you brought up in the pre show or the pre investigation
episode, you know, like it's, it's the perfect place for, you
know, legit or legal urban exploring now because of the
(34:25):
condition of the place. But, you know, this is one of
those things and they they are, they're serious about not
letting people in, you know, access wise, just on their own
because of the hazards and dangers.
You know, they don't want you tobecome a, you know, a resident
spirit there. There are dangerous areas.
We definitely were. Oh yeah, introduced to some that
were questionable. Yes, yeah, we, we sure were.
(34:48):
Yeah. And for Todd and Carmela, make
sure you get over in the off thewing into the unexplored region,
whatever they call it, your guides will tell you.
But is wasn't, you know, truly. Where where an edge is Yeah,
yeah. Wear good shoes that are you
don't mind getting wet. Yeah, so well, yeah.
(35:10):
So that's that's a lot, a lot ofit.
What do you think, Sir? I've I've talked for, you know,
a good 35 minutes here or so about it.
So what's your opinion? I mean, I definitely there
again, it's it's one of those places that has so much energy
and so much, I mean, I don't want to say there there wasn't a
lot of good energy from what washappening there originally.
(35:31):
Again, intent was it for it to be a useful good place, but it
turned into a bad place. So with with what what happened
there? What went through there?
Yeah, I'm sure there's there's hauntings and and energy and and
things like that. So yeah, there my my vote is
(35:54):
yes. I'm sure it's haunted.
I'm sure there's things that happen still so.
I say the same. I, I think you're going to ask
me a paranormal or not, are active or not, I'm going to say
yes. You know, I, I can for the, the
decades of, you know, 100 years worth of activity and you know,
bad stuff happened to the people.
You know, there are there are folks who went in there and
never came out and all the all the negative activity or the
(36:18):
negative energy of the active, you know, the crimps and the
others, you know, the just a criminal element alone.
You know, there there are there are a few stories they didn't
share. I have to share this comment,
but yeah. And Carmela, 24 hour challenge,
24 hour challenge to sleep in the tunnels.
Yes, I'm in on that. I will do it.
(36:40):
So, you know, but all of that stuff, you know, elements add up
and, and there's stories that I didn't include of like people
claiming to see, you know, like like shadow figures with red
eyes, you know, and I'm like, you know, I, I'm not
discrediting it. I can't, I wasn't there.
I don't know, you know, that's kind of one of those, you know,
it could be a lot of things. It could be an, an animal with
(37:00):
eyes shine. There's, there's a few things,
you know, that come to mind immediately that would not be
paranormal, but it's interesting, you know, and, and
once, once you're in a place like this, you know, it's like
we said before, you know, sometimes you just need to sit
down and be quiet for a while, you know, and, and during an
investigation and let the place tell you what story, you know,
(37:21):
and it comes to you, you know, it's like when you give people a
chance to tell you something about themselves, they, they,
they jet, you're off, you know, but you have to let it happen.
You know, it's, it's sometimes it's organic versus forced.
And I think that's this kind of place, you know, if you're just,
if you have the ability to be there and, and in some extended
window of time, you know, you'reon a tour, you know, you get a
window like an hour, hour and a half, two hours, whatever it is,
(37:42):
you know, But when you get the place to yourself, like for the
24 hour challenge, you know, that's totally different.
Right, so, Heather says. I bet the residual energy in the
tunnel is crazy. Yes.
Agreed. Completely agree.
And my my guess is some place like that's going to be more
residual than everything else. I would think so too.
Well, you never know. That's why you got to go.
(38:06):
Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to step back for a
second to to this comment from Todd and Carmella.
This is going back to the toddler comments.
Did you have access to the morgue in the medical buildings?
Not we stayed in the main building, which is there's a lot
of course, you know, with four floors and, you know, wings left
and right and wings on top of wings on top of wings, Who
knows? There's places grows and grows
(38:27):
on you. But you do have access to go to
the, the area where the lobotomyrecovery and also into the
surgical ward. So yes.
And then in also in the surgicalward is the hydrotherapy rooms.
So there's, there's a good amount of that.
But the others I believe are in other buildings which are like a
separate. Yeah.
(38:48):
That. Yeah, the criminal, the
criminal, the criminal building what they.
Call it but criminally insane building.
Thank you. Yeah, there's all separate from
the main building. Yeah, Somebody, I can't remember
who it was, was suggesting a A2 night Tala investigation where
you go do the main building and then you go do the other
(39:08):
buildings. So that was.
Me. No, we had a.
Comment We had conversations around it with our group of like
a three or four night event. You know where you you really.
Have somebody, somebody on Facebook was actually had
proposed that and was like looking into it.
(39:28):
OK, well, you know, and I can't argue that, you know, the idea
of any place really, you know, and I, I think when we watch,
you know, all the paranormal shows, you know, we know this
from talking to the people who are on them.
You know, like it's not just they don't just show up for one
day and then they're, you know, they film it and then everything
they got is there that time it'shighly active or, you know,
whatever happens is all like, because they're there, they're
(39:50):
there for a Week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks at times, you know, and
that's because that's what it takes literally to have, you
know, first of all, you know, we, you have to build some kind
of rapport. You know, you're a stranger
talking to strangers. So, you know, you don't know
each other. There's, there's that in a, in a
low, a place that doesn't have awhole lot of activity.
Sometimes it's because the, the,the spirits that are there don't
understand the equipment that you're trying to get them to
(40:11):
use. And it takes a little time to
learn. You know, you don't pick up
everything immediately and none of us do some, you know,
sometimes we do I'm wrong. But you know, it's, it's one of
those things where you just haveto have that grace period.
And you know, it is, this is never, ever, ever in the field
on demand thing. You know, it just, it has to be
organic. So I love the idea of having
(40:32):
multiple days. We just don't have the ability
to, to do that with the way we, we operate in places, operate
around us, you know, without everything costs something,
right. So, you know, if if I had
$1,000,000, I wouldn't be there.Todd, Todd and Carmela said orbs
in the tunnel question mark. There's, there's reports, of
course, you know, and, and everytime an orb comes up, I go back
(40:56):
to our orbs episode and, you know, I start thinking of things
like backscatter where there's just moisture.
You know, you're, you are underground under the, under
the, the water in the water table at this point.
So you know, there's a possibility of it.
You know, some of the collapses are due to to water problems.
So it's possible. Certainly I'm never going to say
an orbs don't exist, but it's fine that I just, I have trouble
(41:18):
believing them. And I know we've had that.
You know, Todd and I had that conversation already.
We'll, we'll look, we'll look athis new capture and see what he
what he's got. Yeah, I'd love to see it.
Looking forward to it so well. Any any other thoughts Jamie?
I, I think we got it. So, you know, I appreciate the
(41:38):
opportunity to, to go and, and dig into this one.
You know, it's, it's something I've been aware of for a long
time, you know, and just just finally found time to, to pick
it up and get it on the episode.So thanks.
Thanks for indulging me here. Of course, Bird says he he's got
5 weeks vacation. He's in retire.
Yeah, I wish I have 4:00. So, you know, all right, baby,
(42:05):
maybe next year. What's that?
Maybe next year. Maybe next year.
Well, should we talk about what's coming up, Jamie?
Yeah, sure. Let's go.
All right, so upcoming episodes,we've got Landon Legend
Paranormal next week confirmed with Stacey tonight.
So she's looking forward to it and there's a reason we're doing
(42:27):
that that that ties into our investigation.
So we'll cover that in a little bit.
Then you're doing the Morris Jamel mansion.
Then I'm going to jump into the divot box, then Men in black and
then here's a something we talked in one of the guests are
one of the people who watches our show throughout many Hunay.
(42:50):
When we talked about some of theother spirits like the the
Hawaiian ones, they threw this out.
So we're going to I'm going to give that a shot and see what I
can find out. I'm looking forward to that
because I did a little quick research and it it could be a
lot of fun. So I'm.
Happy you said Manahune, right? Yes, we've got several weeks to
(43:13):
practice it too. So that's right.
So then we've, oh, I jumped ahead.
Then we've got, we talked about Landon Legend next week, but
we're doing a combined Peri unity event with them at the
brewery on May 17th. So Stacy and Gary from Landon
(43:35):
Legend, they do have a podcast. Jamie, you said you caught a
little bit of it the other night.
Do you remember the name of it? I always blank.
Oh no, I had it. I had it a second ago.
It'll come back to you. I saw it, I can find it very
quickly. You know, I should have it in my
(43:55):
notes when when we do this, but my apologies.
It's the rest experience. The Rest Experience podcast.
Yes, thank you. And it's actually a lot of fun.
I've, I've listened to a couple episodes today actually, you
know, during my work day. So I'm fortunate if I can have
earbuds in and earbuds even callthem it anymore Earpods in and
(44:18):
that was that was that dug in and I I've found myself enjoying
quite a bit. So we're good.
Very cool. Good.
Well, we'll talk with them next week and I'm looking forward to
it. Stacy's an interesting person
and does Reiki and is a sensitive and so I'm sure she's
going to have a lot to share. Yeah, actually I'm done a little
(44:39):
bit about her background. As far as you know, we all have
day jobs and what she does theretoo.
And it's an interesting tie in as well.
So I'm I'm looking forward to this conversation as well.
Yeah. So as we said, May 17th we're at
the brewery with a Peri unity event.
June 28th we are at the Haunted Crescent Sanatorium in Prison
Paracon. The 26th of July we're at the
(45:01):
brewery and then August 16th we're back at the brewery.
So at least that's what we've got scheduled at this point.
Yep. And then, you know, like we
talked to earlier, we'll be at the Horror, the The Haunted
Crescent Horror and Paracon. It's a mouthful.
Isn't it? It is.
That's a lot. So there, there's that going on.
(45:27):
Bert just reminded me that next weekend is the White Hill
Paracon Saturday. Unfortunately, it's something we
have a family event that day, somost of my mornings going to be
tied up and into the afternoon. So hopefully I can get over
there in the afternoon, but I don't.
I'm not making any promises. I'd love to see everybody, but I
(45:49):
don't think it's going to happen.
I'm in, I'm, I'm in the same place you are with that, like
physically and literally. Yeah, imagine that.
Saturday morning thing so can't it can't miss opportunity and
and I was informed that there isa another family member, a
cousin in a dance recital in theevening.
So that's that's pretty much locked me down.
Yep, that is correct. So so, but we will be at the
(46:12):
that one, the the Crescent event.
So and then you know how to findus on social media, but here you
go. It's Facebook, YouTube, you
found us. We're on TikTok, Instagram.
You can e-mail us at paranormallenspodcast@gmail.com
and find us on Spotify, Apple podcast, all those fun things.
(46:36):
So Yep. We're out there.
So, so Berts is there there during the day and during the
investigation that night that sounds like?
Perfect. That's a good day.
A very good day. All right.
Todd said he enjoyed the show and stories about being
Shanghai. A multi day Tala investigation
would be nice. You know, so you you enjoy the
(46:58):
rest of your week too. We'll put that on.
We'll put that on the wish list.So yeah, have a great night,
guys. Thanks for coming SO.
Anything else, Jamie? No, I think we, we hit it all.
So, you know, again, thanks for everybody for joining us.
You know, we always appreciate your, your journey with us and,
and coming along. You know, the fun stuff we're
(47:19):
bringing up soon is, is all partof, you know, a plan.
But if there's something you want to hear us do or cover, you
know, in a place, a location andopportunity, you know, just feel
free to reach out. You know, the, the e-mail
address goes to apparently this goes to Chad at this point, but
he'll read it and he'll he'll share it with me, I'm sure, or
leave a comment in one of the episodes.
You know, we certainly also, we both see that, you know, so with
(47:42):
that, you know, or if it's a personal story of your own,
we'll be happy to bring it on and, and you want to share it
with us. So, you know, we're always,
we're always looking for the next thing.
And, you know, we have a long list of stuff you don't get to
see yet. But you know, we add up on it
every week because you see the the week's episodes fly by, But
you know, it's always room for more.
The paranormal field is is best and wide and we're happy to
(48:04):
cover it for you. So just let us know, yeah.
So, all right. Well, on that note, we will see
everybody next Tuesday right here and we'll be talking to
Lind and Legend and Paranormal. Looking forward to it.
See you all then. Good night.
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