February 19, 2025 • 53 mins
📖 Paranormal Lens Podcast - Season 2, Episode 30: The Dark Side of Grimm's Fairy Tales 🌲✨
Fairy tales aren’t always child’s play—especially when it comes to the twisted world of the Brothers Grimm. In this episode of Paranormal Lens, host Jamie Widener takes us deep into the eerie origins of these classic tales. From sinister stepmothers to haunted forests, these stories were never meant for bedtime.
Co-host Chad Thomas joins the discussion as they uncover the folklore, superstitions, and macabre lessons hidden within these age-old stories. What inspired these dark tales? Were they cautionary warnings, echoes of real paranormal events, or something else entirely?
đź“… Air Date: February 18, 2025, at 9:00 PM
🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!
Prepare to see your favorite childhood stories in a whole new, hauntingly fascinating light. 🌑👹🧙‍♀️
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:33):
The. Hello and welcome to this week's
episode of Paranormal Lens, presented by Jotnik's
Paranormal. I'm Jamie, That guy's Chad.
(00:55):
We are your hosts. Yeah, it's just you.
Because it's not me, right. Thanks for clarifying.
Oh, we're we're back again. How's the week go by so fast
dude? I don't know when you're working
24 hours a day or wow felt like it, it goes by real fast.
That's a fair statement. That is true.
That is true. You know, welcome to the
(01:15):
entertainment industry that you're in right now.
Your schedules vary. And then it's it's it's feast
and famine sometimes, I'm sure. Yep.
And, you know, feast while you can.
For sure. Exactly.
So OK, yeah, I was, I was hopingthat I would get everything done
for the show tonight that I haveto do.
And I was like, rush home and eat and eat.
Well, you know how it goes. I do.
(01:35):
I do, absolutely. You know, then I have, you know,
a house full of folks here rightnow, so you're getting everybody
settled and situated and dogs walked and, you know, boom,
boom, boom. You know, all of a sudden it's
it's like, you know, 840 and I'mlike, oh, oh, I got to do
something. So, you know, it's what it is
and it's life. And that's all good too,
because, you know, everybody's got a schedule, but this is a
(01:56):
nice easy distraction from all that other bunky stuff that we
have to do and things in the world that we don't like and,
you know, all that. So yeah, here we go again.
So. And, you know, we've got
something to look forward to this week.
We do. We do.
We're. Going to be back at the the
Brewery Boobies. I think that's sleeping in on
Saturday. Oh, Oh yeah, that too.
(02:16):
Yes, that too. Yeah, I don't know if I'm going
to get to sleep in on, I might have to work, you never know.
But that's right. But we do have the
investigation, but we'll dig more into that later.
So Yep, back. To the first first of the year.
So, and I'm going to give a shout out to a friend out there,
today is Chris Mendez's birthday.
So happy. To get out, he has birthdays.
He does. Maybe one of these days he'll be
(02:38):
old enough to not run over, you know, people and at
investigations. Glad you said it, I really am.
It's never going to get old. It never no.
Happy birthday Chris, but I'm happy for you and I hope you've
had a great day out and we'll catch up and celebrate with you
sometime soon. Yeah, so anyway.
That's it for me Yeah, me too. I honestly, it's been a dull
(03:01):
week and not not much is going on.
Yeah, it's been cold as get out and nobody's doing anything.
So, you know, we're just laying low and getting ready to do
stuff. So.
OK. And we got that comment.
Hi, Bert. It says in the words of the
drunk dad on Independence Day. Hello boys.
(03:23):
So good to see you, Bert. And Heather Wish was wishing our
friend Chris a happy birthday onFacebook.
So there you go. Yeah, so glad you could join
tonight, Heather and Bert so. Thanks for joining.
You know, it's funny when when you start, you know, social
media friendships, right? The, the idea of physical
(03:46):
contact, like handing a card to somebody goes out the window,
right? Because people are everywhere.
And that's the beauty of it. You don't have to be in the same
space. And, you know, Chris is, you
know, a bit to the east of us and just far enough away that
it's not easy to catch up physically, you know, unless
we're out somewhere for something, an investigation or
whatnot. So, you know, hence the social
media says you can do all that good stuff there and.
(04:08):
See, but see, I, I spanned it a lot.
I, I cheated Jamie. I took my birthday off social
media. So people can't just do that.
They have to reach out to me andI try to make an effort to
either send them a personal message via Messenger or a text
message or something like that, because everybody posts it on
Facebook. It depends on the relationship.
(04:29):
Well two things. One thanks for making me look
bad because I I send the messageon the socials and.
Is that? If you hold on, if you take your
birthday off the social media site, does that mean you don't
age anymore? No, no, I wish.
I mean, it could get worse, you know?
So anyway, we digress So. All right, all right.
(04:51):
Well, Speaking of things that are old, let's let's talk about
our topic tonight. We're going to dig into and
explore Grimm's fairy tales. So do you know any of these
things? Have you heard of it before?
I I've heard of them and I'm sure I know some of them, but I
just, I couldn't tell you that they were Grimm's Fairy Tales.
(05:14):
So I remember having some books as a kid.
Sure. I think we, it's fair to say we
probably all have at least one or we've been told the tales.
We we know the tales wherever wewere told them or how we learned
them. Some are visual and I'll get to
that, you know, but they've beenaround for a long time.
Is. Is Hansel and Gretel one of
them? Yes, see it is actually, yes,
(05:38):
Yep. And well, we'll get into more of
that, but there's, there's a little over 200 of them in
total, but it's 84 originally. So it's kind of interesting how
they expanded and I'll get into that as well and the why part of
it. But it is all about the why.
I think there's, there's an important thing here that might
be overlooked a little bit because of the fact that these
(06:00):
have just been 200 years of us having these stories in our
cultures. You know what part of the world
you're from, the stories are familiar.
They may have their own twists and you know, it's folklore.
And we've, we've explored enoughof that, I think through these
episodes to know that, you know,folklore and or urban legends,
another way of saying it, right?And there's so many of them that
(06:23):
are so similar that, you know, it's sort of like a whisper down
the lane or telephone game tale,especially when they're
undocumented. You know, the, the cool thing
about the Grims is that they diddocument and they continue to do
so. And they have therefore saved
some of this that would have been lost, perhaps, or expanded
(06:45):
to different directions. And, you know, stories change
every time they're told. It's a fascinating thing.
And I'll even get into how it ties to the paranormal.
That's OK. Let me get to the program part
before I I'll stop Griffin here.Let me start with this.
Every fairy tale ends in happilyever after, right?
(07:07):
They did begin with. OK, if you had to recount the
story of Cinderella right now, you could probably do it by
heart. Wicked Stepmother, Glass
Slipper, Stroke of Midnight, yadda yadda.
Probably real. Also real off the story of Snow
White or Little Red Riding Hood without needing to really think
about it all too much as well. These stories are pretty well
woven into our cultural DNA by now, and a lot of that is due to
(07:30):
the work of the Grimm Brothers. But the versions we know now
aren't the versions of Grimm's originally published, and the
stories weren't originally intended for kids at all.
Back in the early 1800s, Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm were working
as librarians. Born into a well off family,
their lives took a turn for the worse when their father died and
(07:51):
the brothers struggled through school and the university while
in poverty. Librarians weren't particularly
paid well, and frankly, they still aren't.
But those were still were both keen scholars and their work
gave them both time and opportunity to their their do
their own research that led themto put together a collection of
folk tales. The story is the Brothers Grimm
(08:12):
first collected are brusque, blunt, absurd, comical and
tragic. They are not, strictly speaking,
fairy tales. In fact, the Grimm is never
intended for the tales to be read by children.
The tales are about children andtheir families and how they
reacted to the difficult conditions under which they
lived. Think about the 18101812 window
(08:34):
in Europe. Things were tough.
They're coming through some somewars, you know, think about our
our home base with the the brewery and boobies brewery,
Mount Joy, PA, right, the boobiefamily.
Eloise wanted to come over shortly ahead of a little bit
more into the future of this. But, you know, coming out of a
period of, of rough wars, territorial disputes, things
(08:57):
like that, you know, it was an unsettled time and, and of 14
bad things happen. So the Grimms thought the
stories and their morals emanated naturally from the
German people in an oral tradition, and they wanted to
preserve them before the tales were lost forever.
As I said earlier, although the young Germans had not entirely
(09:17):
formalized their concept of folklore while they worked on
the publication of the 1st edition, they held to their
original principle to salvage the relics from the past stories
that were passed along. They intended to trace and grasp
the essence of cultural evolution and to demonstrate how
natural language stemming from the needs, the needs, customs
(09:38):
and rituals of the common peoplecreated authentic bonds and
helped forge civilized communities.
One of the reasons they called their collection of tales an
educational manual. And there's a German word here
that I am not even going to try to say that word.
All right, Why not a reezy hunchbunch?
(09:58):
It's really it's that's exactly how it sounds is that the tales
recalled the basic values of theGerman people through
storytelling. The Grimm's wanted to gift the
oral tales to the German people,not realizing that these tales
would assume relevant in all cultures.
Though the tales can be considered part of a German
nationalist movement in the 19thcentury, they were also related
(10:20):
to tales from many other nationsand this relationship accounts
for their international appeal today.
Turning to the tales of the 1st edition, a reader might notice
that many of the tales, such as The Hand with the Knife, How
some children Played at slaughtering, and The Children
of Famine have nothing to do with fairies or happy endings.
(10:40):
Instead, these dark narratives are about real living
conditions. In the 19th century, for
instance, the Children of Faminebegins this way.
Once Upon a time, there was a woman with two daughters, and
they have become so poor that they no longer had even a piece
of bread to put in their mouths.Their hunger became so great
that their mother became unhinged and desperate.
(11:02):
Indeed, she said to her children, I've got to kill you
so that I can get something to eat.
Yeah. In another haunting tale, the
Godfather, a poor man in need ofa godfather, unknowingly chooses
the devil who may eat him after a visit to the devil's House of
horrors. There's some themes of the devil
(11:25):
being involved in a lot of the tales.
These tales remitted from later editions, from the 1st edition
in 191812, I'm Sorry, to 1815 tothe final one in 1857.
The Grimm has received numerous versions of tales already in
their collection and new tales from strangers, friends and
colleagues, and they often decided to replace one tale with
(11:48):
another version, to delete some of the tales, or to include
variants in their footnotes. Interestingly, several Grimm
tales were explored in animated feature films by Walt Disney.
Let's take a look at these. So the first Snow White,
according to Disney, and I'm assuming we've all seen this,
(12:09):
right? Animated 1922 or so, the heyday
of Disney. So according to Disney,
threatened by her stepdaughter'sbeauty, a wicked stepmother
orders a Huntsman to take the young girl out into the woods
and kill her, bringing back her heart.
The Huntsman can't do it, and let's no way to escape into the
forest. She finds a tiny house where
(12:31):
singing dwarves, all named for their defining characteristics,
live. They decide to let her stay and
keep house for them. How very kind, right?
Yeah, exactly. The wicked queen finds out via
her magic mirror that Snow Whiteisn't dead and sets out to kill
her with a poisoned apple through the through.
Though the dwarves get revenge by driving the queen off a the
(12:52):
edge of a Cliff, they can't wakeSnow White until a passing
Prince comes and wakes her with true Love's kiss, and they live
happily ever after. Sounds right.
Sounds like what we know, right?Yeah.
So originally though, in the 1stedition of the story, it wasn't
a wicked, wicked stepmother at all.
It was Snow White's actual mother.
(13:15):
And she didn't just want Snow White's heart, she wanted her
lungs and her liver too. When she discovered that the
Huntsman hadn't killed the girl,she sets out to try to kill her
in three different ways, with anoverly tight corset suffocating
her with a poison comb. Don't know what that would do,
but OK. And finally with, well, a
(13:36):
poisoned apple. It's also not true Love's kiss
that revives Snow White. It's a good shake as the Prince
attempts to make off with Snow White's glass coffin and the
Queen doesn't get pushed off a Cliff.
She's forced to dance herself todeath in a pair of red hot iron
shoes. Ouch.
Interesting. A and next Cinderella favorite,
(14:03):
Right. Everybody loves Cinderella.
They can sing that. I'm hearing the song, you know,
in my head. Yeah.
Now, there we go. Well, according to Disney, after
her widowed father remarries andthen dies, Cinderella is left at
the mercy of her wicked stepmother and two ugly step
sisters. They force her to do manual
labor and labor, I'm sorry, and wear rags.
(14:23):
But she's so sweet and kind, beautiful that even wild animals
love her and help her out. Where are those for me?
Like, I'm sweet and kind in it, you know?
Nevermind. Yeah.
Yeah. Apparently not in sweet enough.
When the Prince of the Kingdom throws a ball, Cinderella's
fairy godmother appears and creates a dress coach and
footman for her so she can go tothe party.
(14:46):
The Prince falls in love with her, but the magic ends at
midnight, so she has to run away, leaving behind only her
glass slipper. The Prince travels that the land
looking for the girl who fits the shoe, but her step sisters
sabotage her by smashing it. Luckily, she still has the other
shoe, so she gets to live happily ever after.
Too, right? Sound right?
(15:08):
OK, well, not originally. The Cinderella story originally
appeared in the volume of Charles Perrault's Fairy Tales,
but in the Grimm's version. Cinderella or Ashton Poodle or
Asheville has two beautiful stepsisters and they just happen
to be ugly, horrible people. There's no fairy godmother, just
(15:30):
white doves sent butts to help Cinderella by her dead mother.
OK, paranormal perhaps. And the Prince actually holds 3
balls. At midday on the third night,
the Prince lays a tar trap for Cinderella where she loses her
shoe instead of it slipping off.When her sisters get the chance
(15:51):
to try on the missing shoe, theyeach cut off different parts of
their feet in order to fit into the tiny slipper, but the blood
dripping from the shoes gives them away.
The Prince eventually finds the girl, and at their wedding the
magic doves reappear to Peck outthe evil sisters.
Eyes. So, you know, what's interesting
is are you familiar with Into the Woods of?
(16:14):
Course I'm going to get there actually.
Sorry. Sorry.
No, no, it, it, it that, that was through this for me the
whole time, you know, and just for reference, we, we have not
gotten through an episode of theshow in the last several weeks
without having a musical reference of some kind.
So I what the heck, yes, absolutely.
(16:36):
There's definitely themes and and I think that's the point,
you know, there's so much of this can be can be kind of
tagged, you know, of different ways they overlay each other
similarly. Anyway, a lot of the stories.
All right, so the next Sleeping Beauty, according to Disney, a
king and queen throw a huge party to celebrate the birth of
their daughter Aurora. But though they invite three
(16:59):
good fairies who each give theirblessings, they didn't invite
the evil fairy Maleficent. Angry about being snubbed, she
crashes the party and bestows upon the girl a curse.
Before she turns 16, she'll prick her finger on a spinning
wheel and die. One of the good fairies manages
to modify the curse so that Aurora won't die.
(17:19):
She'll just sleep until she's awoken by true Love's kiss.
Yeah, you know that again. The fairies try to hide the
girl, and she eventually meets and sings to the forest, to the
Prince in the forest. But curses don't get hidden,
can't be hidden from, and so sheends up pricking her finger and
falling asleep anyway. Maleficent locks the Prince in
(17:40):
her dungeon so he can't break the curse, but the good fairies
rescue him. Maleficent turns into a dragon,
because you know, why not, but the Prince pushes her off a
Cliff and wakes Aurora with a kiss.
You know, there must be a lot ofcliffs in Germany.
That's two. Now you know.
And now cue the Happily Ever After music.
(18:01):
Originally, though, this is actually an interesting one
because the grim version of the story is pretty close to the
Disney version, but there's a magic frog at the beginning,
there's 13 fairies instead of three, and there's a lot of dead
suitors stuck in the forest surrounding the castle.
Otherwise, the story's pretty familiar.
However, the story was also published by other authors
(18:23):
before the Grimm's got their hands on it, and those versions
are pretty nasty. Here's some examples.
And Gian Bastista's version from1634.
Once the Prince finds Sleeping Beauty, he rapes her, and she
only wakes up when one of the children she bore whilst asleep
sucks the splinter out of her finger by mistake.
(18:44):
Horrible. And through a though.
Peralta's version in 19 or 1697.Sorry, removes the rapes it
chucks in an epilogue worthy with an evil stepmother who
tries to eat the happy couple's children and ends up being
thrown into a pit of Vipers. It really says something when
the Grimm's version is nicer than the others, right?
(19:05):
So which which story is? What's the name of the Grimm's
story? Hang on, I'll have to check my
reference material. It's quite a tome, you know,
Honestly, I don't know off top my head.
It's not, it's not necessarily because it's The thing is The
thing is this the the original, if you get to the original 64
(19:27):
and it's hard to find an original version and a copy
anymore because it's forever old.
The names are different. The the stories as they've been
modified through the years, the names are changing, giving it a
spin of some kind or another. Because it it sounds like the
same theme as Rumpelstiltskin, but it's I don't think it.
That's a separate 1, isn't it? Yes, it's absolutely is.
(19:49):
OK. All right, the next Rapunzel,
according to Disney and Disney'sadaptation of Rapunzel, is
called Tangled. It's very recent, and it's not
very traditional. Rapunzel gets a lot more agency
than most other Disney princesses, and her Prince isn't
really a Prince at all. But the elements of a sanitized
(20:11):
Rapunzel story are there. A beautiful Princess is kept
captive by a witch. Who uses the girl's long hair to
climb in and out of a tower prison and it's only when she
meets a man that she gets to escape.
Originally, according to the Grims, the reason the Wicked
Witch gets to make off with babyRapunzel is that her dad stole
(20:33):
herbs from the witch's garden tomeet the wife's craving his
wife's cravings, and when she hegets caught, he agrees to hand
over his first born. Now, Chad, this sounds a lot.
Like Into the Woods, doesn't it?It does, yes.
Stuck in the tower, Rapunzel let's down her hair for the
witch day after day, but when a passing Prince hears her
singing, he decides to pay Rapunzel a visit himself.
(20:56):
He secretly visits her several times, and the witch only finds
out because Rapunzel gets pregnant and innocently asks why
her belly's getting so big. In a rage, the witch, which cuts
off the girl's hair, uses it to lower the Prince back into the
tower, then chucks him off the top, letting him fall into a
thorn Bush that plucks out his eyes.
(21:16):
Eventually, though, there was a happy ending where the couple
get back together and Rapunzel'stear Tears heal the prince's
eyes. Yeah, that sounds very much
like. In other words, Sondheim went
back to the traditional. Yeah, who knew?
Heather wants to know why does eating children seem to be so
(21:37):
popular? They're delicious little BBQ,
some salt and pepper done. They're smaller.
They don't take long to cook. I, I don't know, it's the, it's
the weirdest part of it, you know, I mean, other than
gruesome deaths, you know, I don't think that there is
(21:58):
anything weirder than the desired.
And that's it's common in a lot of stories.
There is, well, I'm getting maybe a little ahead of myself
here to say this, but there are prevalence is a prevalence of
child abuse through most of these stories, but also looking
at an era when child abuse isn'twhat we would consider it today.
It was just discipline, right? So that's part of it as well.
(22:21):
And perhaps it was the threat ofbeing eaten more so than it was
the fact of it as the behavior modifier maybe.
Or maybe there's eight kids, I don't know.
OK, so here are some other examples of how stories changed
between the 1st and 4th editionsof the Grims work.
And that's the difference between 18101812 and 1847.
(22:43):
So the big gap in between the terse tale called The Wildman,
in which a mysterious, powerful king helps a boy who has helped
him escape from a cage, is embellished and transformed into
a very long, elaborate tale thatis now called Iron Hands.
The Wildman in 1812 in the 1812 version is more kind than the
(23:04):
stern Iron Hands who determines a young man's destiny and a
coming of age story. It's a bit hard on him.
Likewise, the Devil in the GreenCoat is given a new title,
Bearskin, and totally a new beginning and meaning.
In the 1812 tale, the Grimm is portrayed an oppressed, timid
young man abandoned in the woodsby his brothers.
(23:26):
He accepts the devil's green coat that will enable him to
survive for seven years if he doesn't shave or clean himself.
Clearly he's a teenager. He's cool with that, right?
Yeah. In the much longer 1857 version,
there are echoes of the Napoleonic Wars.
The protagonist is a discharged and homeless soldier who is
(23:46):
treated poorly by his family andthen turns to the devil for
survival. All of the tales in the 1st
edition bear the marks of their diverse storytellers who
believed in the magic, superstitions, and miraculous
transformations of the tales. It may be difficult for us to
understand why this is the case,but for the storytellers and
writers of these tales, the stories contain truths about the
(24:07):
living conditions of their times.
The tales in the 1st edition were collected not from
peasants, as it is commonly commonly believed, but mainly
from literate people whom the Grimmons came to know quite
well. Evidence shows that these
stories often were obtained fromilliterate or anonymous
informants though, but they werepassed through to them by more
(24:28):
well called reputable people. Even if they did not know their
informants, the Grimms came to trust almost everyone who
contributed to their collection.It is this mutual trust that
marks the tales as something special and endows them with a
certain humanity, what Germans call men's chic keit.
And it is mutual trust among folklorists in the 19th century
(24:49):
that marks it as a golden age offolk and fairy tales.
The tales in the 1st edition seta certain standard that the
collectors began to follow, and still follow even today.
We have fun fact while we're at this.
Their books would become second in popularity only to the Bible
in German speaking lands by the 20th century.
They would become the most collection, the most famous
(25:11):
collection of folk and fairy tales in the Western world.
That's impressive. Yeah.
So to conclude, in gathering thetales, the Grimm's made a unique
contribution to folklore and their kinder UN Ham Hamarchdan,
which is children in the household tales, it's originally
called is even listed by UNESCO,which is the United Nations
(25:34):
Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization in its
memory of the World Registry. So it is a protected entity now.
It was in large, in large part because of their first edition,
published in two volumes in 1812and 1815, that inspired
folklorists in Europe and Great Britain.
Because Great Britain's not in Europe, apparently, to gather
(25:55):
tales from their oral traditionsto preserve as part of their
cultural heritage. Though brusque and raw, the
Grimm's tales of the 1st editionstill resonate with us today
because they indicate how we cantransform ourselves and our
conditions to live in a better world.
As biologists, collectors, translators, researchers,
(26:16):
editors, and mediators, their grims worked in the hope that
their tales would benefit us in unimaginable ways.
And indeed, it is this hope thatcan still be felt when we read
and listen to their tales today.Before we discuss, let me cite
some sources. Britannica.com, neh.gov, which
(26:36):
is the National Endowment for the Humanities, thethings.com,
and what might be in my new favorite website,
jendenofgeek.com. Check it out.
Atlas Obscure is going to be missing a a client.
I I can, I can do both, I'm sure.
OK, so there's a lot, right? And it's interesting considering
(27:01):
there is, you know, 200 plus stories now.
But even if we're only 86, I think there would still be a lot
going on. What do you think?
I, I think it's definitely interesting how they changed
through the, their different publications to evolve with the
(27:23):
times. I mean, I, I don't, there's not,
there's not a lot that we can say here is a paranormal or not.
There's a few, there's a few things, but but I just think
it's, I think it's interesting though, how it evolved and how
it was probably meant as lessons.
And I think, you know, like eating the eating children
(27:45):
thing, it was probably don't do that or you might get eaten by
blah, blah, you know, whatever. Sure.
So, and I, I, you know, I'm not familiar with that time period
in Germany, but you know, I'm guessing that it was, you know,
the food was scarce and, you know, it was like, well, if
you're not careful, you'll, you'll be the next meal.
(28:08):
Sure. You're also talking about rural
areas, you know, that that weren't well, you know, kind of
like we talked about with the children of wool pit, the green
children wool pit last week, youknow, the wolf, the wolf pits as
they were, you know, where the were protection against the
things that were around them that they couldn't control, you
know, So, you know, these are still rural, very rural places.
(28:29):
And, you know, rural tails startin rural areas, start to grow,
and then they get passed along as people travel through and it
gives them some sense of fantasticalism.
That's the order I just made-up.You can use it if you need it,
you know, and it, it just kind of expands and it goes from
there. But it's a challenge.
The challenge, whether it's paranormal or not, I'll say
(28:49):
this. The tales involve such things as
sorcery, magic, witchcraft, fairies, dwarves, fairy
godmothers, which are totally are fairies but still separate
ghosts, Dragons, and my favorite, dark spooky woods.
Well, dark spooky woods aren't paranormal where they exist.
(29:11):
And you know. They they, they can be spooky,
but they're, you know, they might have paranormal things in
anyway, Bert says he in that last one.
But still, I still like dark spooky woods anyway, yeah.
Bert said he didn't realize thatthere were so many and that some
of them were from the 1600s. Yeah.
And so the, the, the, the interesting thing, and I think
(29:31):
this is what's kind of to your point of like how, how the
stories changed is that they didn't own these stories to
begin with. They weren't, they were not the
authors. They were the teller and the
collectors. And in that they were, you know,
I guess bound to some degree to tell the tale as it was, was
shared and and then the liberty afterwards to change it as other
versions applied, you know, or like them.
(29:54):
And hence the different editionsthat came through.
If you've been watching the slideshow with us, you know,
there there is countless versions and editions beyond the
original from the Grims. And, you know, as we've moved
forward in time, the stories haven't really, they haven't
(30:17):
really changed. They've been edited, you know,
and probably a better way of saying it to get to the more
modernization that we've come to.
But you know, and of course, many of that illustrations
added, you know, there are movieversions of them of everything
obviously outside of the the Disney stuff, but there's a
Brothers Grimm movie, Matt Damonand Heath Ledger in it.
(30:38):
There's versions of other tales.Hansel and Gretel vampire hunter
is one of them. You know, like, what the heck,
That's not from that long as Jeremy Renner in it, you know,
so an actor of our day. So you know, it's an early film
for him, but still, you know, not not that far back in our our
past. So, and you go back in time, you
know, a lot of stuff through theyears have been done, stage
(31:01):
productions, of course, you know, mentioned Into the Woods
and adaptation for the most partof a lot of stories combined.
Your chance to go see it, go seeit, it's well, it's well done.
You know, it's just one of thosethings where when when you you
don't own it, but you want to honor it.
This is exactly what they did. And you know, the tales were
(31:22):
presented as they were told. Yeah, Bert says.
I like the Groom TV show. Yep.
Oh gosh, What was it Once Upon atime or something like that?
Once, maybe it's just called Once on the ABC couple years
ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was, there was there was anEmma fascination for quite a
(31:43):
while, so. Exactly.
I remember it was actually, it was a good show.
I mean, I enjoyed. It it was well done.
It was it was bringing bringing a classic into modern day.
So it was an interesting twist, so.
Absolutely. So, you know, and, and I think,
(32:04):
you know, these tales are now part of our culture, you know,
and whether we acknowledge them or not, sometimes we don't even
know they're Grimm's tales anymore.
Because I think that's, I was realizing that as you were going
through them, I was like, Oh yeah, that that one.
I know, that one I know. And.
I, I had this thought, you know,if, if they did not do the work
(32:24):
and, you know, weren't in the place to do this and, and at
their time and era, you know, would these tales still be
something that's common or popular to us today when they've
made their way to us anyway? And maybe, but not as likely.
So we got to give we got to tip the cap here, I think to the
Grims and really, you know, givethem their flowers for this
(32:46):
because it's it it it's it's amazing how long these stories
have have held up. And, you know, Chad, there was
not not to step back a little bit, but there's a certain magic
in folklore, you know, because everything is believable in the
town. You know, I'm not, I've never
watched any of these, you know, classic Disney films and went,
(33:07):
Nah, that's not possible. Right, it's.
Just part of the tale and it's cool and we get absorbed in it
and, and we just let our imaginations go with it and
obviously they all have happy endings, so it's pretty cool,
but. Right.
We just, we just accept and we go and it's neat.
Yeah, and it is interesting how it did it, what they did
(33:30):
document they did, you know, 'cause there there's so many
stories. That would be cool if people did
that now. Well, and we do to some degree,
but you know it now it's it's not a book so much as it is
digital media, you know, social media for sure.
(33:50):
But you know, like YouTube and other places that you can, you
can create a video, you know, and upload it and it's to the
world in seconds. It took time for this to carry
out of Germany. First of all, time took time to
carry across Germany, then move forward and out of there, you
know, out of the country into the rest of the continent and
around the rest of the world. You know, So it's amazing to me,
(34:11):
you know, in an era without any kind of reach other than just
carrying a book in your bag, youknow, kind of thing, that that
this expanded so fast and far and stuck so, so hard.
I guess, you know, you bring up a good point that like social
media is doing this now for us. And like, I grew up South of
(34:34):
Gettysburg, you know that I, andthere's, there's the orphanage
in Gettysburg, but growing up there, I never knew the, the,
the orphanage existed, any of the story about it.
But through social media, more so than even any of the TV shows
is when I started learning aboutit.
I'm like, wait, what? And like, it was right across
(34:57):
the street from a place that I'dbeen multiple times and knew
nothing of it. And you know, and you know, now
I've got the chance to investigate it.
So it's really I, I think we're living in a time where this,
you're right, this is happening,but just in a different way.
Yeah, I, I, I'm, that's my opinion anyway.
But I you know, I can see it, you know, with, with respects to
(35:21):
like even mass media shows, you know, like I learn, I see up and
I, I watched, you know, let's say a Josh Gates show, you know,
whatever they are expeditioniststhat you know, there's so many
names, you know, ghost adventures, ghost hunters, you
know, all that stuff. You know, I get, I get excited
to watch those shows because I get to learn about a place I
know nothing about. Or what's really cool is when
(35:44):
they do a place you've been to, you know, and you're like, wow,
wow, you know, I saw that I did that or I know, or.
When you're going to and you're like, oh, this.
Is a good one Yeah that's true you know this this season for
premiere of expedition Unknown was Trans Allegheny Lunatic
Asylum so. And a two-part episode at that
(36:05):
so you know that was I got superexcited knowing I was going you
know a couple months so. And then I then I think I was
watching and I'm like, Jamie, doyou know what's on?
I mean, and you're like wait till the end.
Wait till the end of the second episode.
Yep. But that's the point.
There's a tale. Every one of those is a version
of a tale that you know is a hasa collective.
And, you know, we have, we are, we are in this mix ourselves
(36:29):
with what we get to do at Boobie's Brewery.
There is a tale of the establishment.
There is a tale of the people who were there and the, and the
activities that they created while they were there and, and
the things that they did that energies have, you know,
captured and remained. We get to tell that tale every
time we have a public investigation.
We're spreading folklore and, you know, expanding it anyway to
(36:51):
others. And, you know, they don't look
at it that way because, you know, we're sharing information,
but that's really what it is. But that's what folklore was,
and it was verbal telling. And so.
But yeah. And there's we are professional
folklorists now, right? Yeah.
So sort of well, I mean now, nowI'm kidding, but well, and and
you know, we're. A degree in folklore, by the
(37:13):
way. Really.
Yes, you can. It's fascinating.
Cool. There it is.
Yeah. And and I like this actually.
What Burt, just just a comment here.
But also keeping their memory alive.
Absolutely. You know, and that's that's the
tale of all of these things. You know, that's the point
perhaps of all of these stories.And the names may not be the
(37:35):
names of the originals, but the idea is that we're sharing that
story of someone and that I'm remembering them.
So well, and we're, you know, we're doing, you know, some,
some things to, to keep it alivein other ways.
I'm working on the Jot Nicks paranormal website.
But we're also going to have, you know, we're, as we're
digging in and researching things about the brewery.
(37:58):
You know, we're, I'm going to, I'm planning on posting things
like the death certificate of, of Aloise and just things that
we've found and discovered over the years that we can can share
and make sure that everybody's aware of.
That's a repository. And that's, that's exactly what
this is. It's a repository of stories,
you know, these, these editions and even though they have been
(38:19):
modified from 1st to the 4th edition or so, you know, and
that that's, that's progression,I think more than it is
intention of, of just not likingit, you know, and how many times
have you written, you know, something and as a first draft
and then by the time you're at your final, it's not the same
anymore. You know, commonly, right,
pretty much every, everything wedo for these shows, or the idea
(38:43):
at least starts off over here and it ends up over there, you
know, so, but the more you, the more you learn about something,
the more information you glean and gather, the more you can
expand and, and, you know, contour where you're going with
it. And, you know, we all have our
own unique ways of telling stories as well.
And I think that's key to this. You know, the Grims had a unique
(39:04):
way of wanting to tell stories. And, you know, not everything
that they captured or were provided to them was documented
in their, in their books. There's quite a few, and I
thought one of them was really interesting.
The, the, the tail, Puss in Boots, which I think we all
know, we certainly know from Shrek, right, The character.
And there's another one, right? Another kind of conglomerate of
(39:27):
a bunch of fairy tales, But thatwas considered too French for
them. They didn't include it in the
first edition. Oh, really?
Interesting. Yeah, so, and there's a few
others that were also consideredtoo French.
There were some that were considered too Middle Eastern as
well that didn't make it into the first or second edition, but
more so toward the end, right? So, you know, and as the
(39:48):
globalization of it all kind of expanded and more stories kept
coming and they realized they had to keep continuing to expand
out. And that's how they went from 86
to like 210 pretty quick as far as stories so.
Now did so obviously the the Grimm brothers haven't lived
forever like this story is beingis it family that's carrying on
some of the new publications or is it.
(40:12):
There there, to my knowledge, there is no continuation of the
family in the in the processes of the additions.
So publishers sort of purchased it, and then they they, Yeah.
However, that worked in the 1800s.
Yeah, and how if it worked at all, right.
I don't know if they made much money on these.
You know, obviously the books were sold, but you know, in the
(40:34):
sense of royalties and you know,all of the stuff that we would
we expect today and how we know it today.
You know, the trackability is one thing too.
Like you would really only need a printing press to be able to
create a book. And that's not a small feat in
the 1800s. You know, it's a big setup and
all that, but you know, if you took a book from here, you know,
in, in our area, in Pennsylvania, and it, it
travelled with you to say the Midwest of the US, somewhere
(40:57):
like Nebraska, you know, and somebody liked it and they
wanted to make it themselves. That's all they had to do.
There weren't copyright laws andprotections and stuff.
It was just let's go print this ourselves and then it would and
then it would. But the good news of that is it
would allow it to go further, faster that way than it would be
if it just came from a single source with a very small
distribution network or any network at all.
(41:20):
You know, you'd have to come to them to get it.
So there's there's possibly somegood in that.
Yeah, again, interesting money. What's that?
There's no money in it for the Grimm.
It's just interesting how times have changed, you know, you know
globalization and you know. Oh, absolutely.
(41:42):
I mean, you could write a book tomorrow, Jamie, and it would
be, you know, worldwide within acouple of years.
It might be the couple weeks realistically with with digital
release, you know, all it has todo and and we can you know, this
is a this is a different direction, but you know our our
good friend Ron. Ron Yakavetti is A5 time author.
His books are available on Amazon.
(42:02):
You know, I don't have to go find him to get a copy.
I can just dial it up and say I want to.
I look him up in the search and there they are, you know, and
I've, I've. Put him on Wish for five days.
And a gift time, so you know, Yeah.
I'm sorry, what was that? I.
Was going to say if you want that signed copy though.
Well, that's different, right? Absolutely, but you know, it,
that's that is the world now is that you know that you don't
(42:25):
have to go through the arduous process of, you know, the, the
and first of all, you're writingon a typewrite.
You're not writing on a typewriter with a quill as they
would have been. You know, now we're we're using
everything on our tablets and laptops and we can do that
anywhere at any time. We don't have to go, you know,
with a print out of everything in hand to an editor who has to
(42:45):
then, you know, get through their process and then, you
know, get it back to you in in similar with a bunch of red
marks on it, you know, and then you go back to your work and you
re edit and you really, you know, redo and represent, you
know, that's that's long and slow.
Everything is digital now and it's amazing.
But Jamie, it wasn't that long ago that we were still doing
(43:08):
hand manuscripts. That's true.
I agree. I mean, in our lifetime, yeah,
that's the point. And the world has changed
rapidly over the last, you know this within this generation.
And I wonder what it will be going forward.
Right. So we we've definitely.
Rapid expansion of the information that we are trying
to present and, and even us, youknow, we're, we're around the
(43:30):
world with this program. That's amazing to me.
Like I, I don't know if you noticed, but we're it's 22
countries now. I I have, I have and thank you
all. We really, really appreciate
that. Yeah, so, so very cool.
But that's the point, right? There's, there's no lines
anymore. You know, it's not like we're
watching network television backin the 70s for, you know, there
(43:51):
were so many episodes, and over the summer, it was reruns, and
then you had to wait for everything.
Now and then, it's just streams at all times.
And you're like, you're picking in where you're picking and
going wherever you want to. It's amazing.
Yeah. So what a great time to be
alive. Because people like us have a
platform, Jamie, so well that that.
(44:11):
Is that's what I have. I appreciate the opportunity to
to present on this. I was, I was.
There's always been an interest from mine, you know, and then
the tale, the original tales truly are not, not what we know
today. Oh, definitely not so.
They all, they all start with Once Upon a time, but they
certainly all did not live happily ever after.
Yeah, because not not many stories are happily ever after,
(44:33):
you know? Nope, real life isn't happily
ever after. Not always agreed.
So, so on that note, thank you Jamie for pulling this together.
Definitely interesting. Nice job.
Thanks. But coming up we've got a couple
couple more interesting episodes.
(44:54):
Let me see. Of course, I've got my camera in
front of it. Next week I will be doing the
the Randlesham Forest incident. You don't know anything about
this. I got nothing on this one.
I'm not looking it up. I'm just going to let.
It ride well I it you know. We're.
We're back to Suffolk and Suffolk, England.
OK, so I figured it sounded British.
(45:16):
It did, all right. 1980s. Oh.
OK, so I'll just leave that there and we will.
We'll go with that. But yeah, not.
I'm expecting people with, you know, 2 polo shirts with pop pop
collars and some parachute pants.
Chuck Taylors. Sorry, Yeah, we'll we'll see.
(45:38):
So anyway, we'll, we'll dig intothat next week, March 4th, as we
move into Mardi Gras, right? Well, it's it's Fat Tuesday.
Fat Tuesday, the end of Mardi Gras.
Really true. Yeah.
Getting rid of all this stuff. Yeah, as we're, as we're moving
into Lent, but the end of Mardi Gras, Jamie's going to dig into
New Orleans, America's most haunted city.
(46:01):
The week after that, I'm going to jump into Leap Castle and do
it every time. March 18th, Tommy Knockers,
which I didn't know what this was.
I had to, you know, as I, as I was looking up to make sure I
had the spelling right, which I didn't.
I figured out what that is. And then I was sort of sort of
(46:23):
tying the couple things togetherhere as we we move on.
I'm going to do the dibic box and then Jamie's going to do
paranormal hoaxes. So maybe that gives you a clue
to the Dibic box. So right, so and then Jamie,
believe it or not, after that, we're into Tala and stuff.
We are. There we're so every day is
getting closer. It is.
(46:44):
Yep. So that's what we got coming up
in our shows, Paranormal Investigations.
We're here, Jamie. We're back.
Yes, let's do this. This Saturday, February 22nd at
the brewery, Tickets are limited.
They're they're, I'm not going to say we're selling out fast,
but the the numbers are yeah, yeah, March. 20 to go closer,
(47:09):
more go quickly, closer to the dates as well, exactly the
weekend plans and you know, say let's do this.
So then we're March 22nd, exactly 4 weeks later we're back
again. Then the next thing after that
will be our trip to Tala, which we are all looking forward to.
And then April 26th, we will be back at the brewery.
(47:33):
Tickets are available if you go to boobiesbrewery.com, that's
bubesbrewery.com back slash entertainment and that'll take
you to their saver stub site andyou can get tickets there.
Let's see what else we've got. In May, May 17th we will be
(47:58):
pairing up with we're going to start some of our peri unity,
peri unity things. Stacey and Gary Smith from this
is where I'm going to Landon Legends Paranormal.
We'll be teaming up with Jotnicks and we will be doing a
Co investigation with public. It'll be a lot of fun.
(48:20):
I know Stacey fairly well. We've met it several times.
Gary's like nice guy. I know Missy has done some
investigating with them as well.So it, it, it'll be, it'll be a
fun night. If you want to learn more about
Stacy, she has a podcast, RusticSpirit podcast.
It's on Facebook and stuff. So look that up and check it
(48:41):
out. You know, again, that'll be a
good, that'll be a fun night. Private investigations at
Boobies Brewery are available ifyou're interested in having the
brewery to yourself. You know once the restaurant
closes, you get the brewery to yourself.
(49:03):
You can dive into that to to book that experience, reach out
to melissa.kellerwhichism.keller0606@gmail.com.
She can get you hooked up with that.
There's places to stay because Jamie Mountjoy is more fun when
you sleep over. Yes, it is.
That's. True.
So we got that going for us. 17 tries later, Chad, way to go.
(49:29):
Yeah, well, I, I, I have my Cheat Sheets now.
There's a hotel still at the brewery and there's also a, an
Airbnb across the street. Both great options to to stay.
So check that out. And last but not least, follow
us on the socials. You found us on Facebook or
(49:50):
YouTube. We're starting to pick up posts
in our TikTok, which is at Jotnix Paranorma.
No L on the end of that, but if you if you search Jotnix
Paranormal, you will find us. We're on Instagram.
You can e-mail Jamie and I at paranormallenspodcast@gmail.com.
You can find us on Spotify, Audible, Apple Podcasts, all
(50:16):
those fun places. And you can check out our link
Tree, which links all these things together under one roof
at Link Tree, back slash, Paranormal Lens.
So there you go. Yeah.
Any other thoughts, Jamie? Not really.
I think I'm just going to grab my copy of Fairy Tales and go
(50:40):
start reading some new someones I haven't read before right
before bed. I encourage everyone to do so,
really. There are so many tales and so
many things, obviously, things we know, but there's some unique
themes in some of these stories that you know just really are
worth reading and worth digging into so.
OK, please, but, but not necessarily bedtime stories
(51:00):
though, right? Well, I mean it depends.
Maybe some, I don't know. Not.
Not for all for sure. So you definitely want to read
them with the lights on. This is true, so I'm good.
Thank you all for for joining usagain as always.
And you know, I, I, I'm always one to say this, but if there's
(51:22):
a topic you wish to hear us present on your behalf or that
you, you know, feel near and dear to drop a set line, you
know, paranormal lenspodcast@gmail.com.
You know, we certainly were happy to do so.
We've done listener submissions before.
We'll do more future, you know, we self produce so we can move
our schedule around. All those episodes you saw
coming up can get adjusted and you know, see a little time, do
(51:45):
some research and perhaps we'll have you on as well as a guest.
So it's certainly, we're always looking for more content.
There's a lot out there in the world of paranormals.
We're never going on right now, but you know, the more we know,
the more we can do. So we appreciate that we want
to, we want to feed, feed stuff back to you that you're
interested in. So absolutely.
(52:05):
So Oh my, what a comment from Heather here.
Great to meet them before going to bed.
Before going to bed, you'll dream of eating children.
Oh my goodness, maybe. So all right, well, on that
note, I want to thank Jamie again.
Thank you for pulling this together.
I want to thank all our viewers who are with us live and who are
(52:28):
going to be watching this in thefuture.
If you're watching this some other time, you want to join us
live that way you can add comments and stuff it's Tuesday
nights, 9:00 PM Eastern StandardTime and we're here so join us
so very good All right well Jamie, I know where you're going
(52:49):
to be Saturday night and I'm going to be at the same place so
we're looking forward to that sowe'll.
See you there. Same place, same.
We'll be in the same place at the same time.
For once. This is great.
Yep. So, all right, good night,
everybody. Thank you.
Have a great week, see ya.
The. Hello and welcome to this week's
episode of Paranormal Lens, presented by Jotnik's
Paranormal. I'm Jamie, That guy's Chad.
(00:55):
We are your hosts. Yeah, it's just you.
Because it's not me, right. Thanks for clarifying.
Oh, we're we're back again. How's the week go by so fast
dude? I don't know when you're working
24 hours a day or wow felt like it, it goes by real fast.
That's a fair statement. That is true.
That is true. You know, welcome to the
(01:15):
entertainment industry that you're in right now.
Your schedules vary. And then it's it's it's feast
and famine sometimes, I'm sure. Yep.
And, you know, feast while you can.
For sure. Exactly.
So OK, yeah, I was, I was hopingthat I would get everything done
for the show tonight that I haveto do.
And I was like, rush home and eat and eat.
Well, you know how it goes. I do.
(01:35):
I do, absolutely. You know, then I have, you know,
a house full of folks here rightnow, so you're getting everybody
settled and situated and dogs walked and, you know, boom,
boom, boom. You know, all of a sudden it's
it's like, you know, 840 and I'mlike, oh, oh, I got to do
something. So, you know, it's what it is
and it's life. And that's all good too,
because, you know, everybody's got a schedule, but this is a
(01:56):
nice easy distraction from all that other bunky stuff that we
have to do and things in the world that we don't like and,
you know, all that. So yeah, here we go again.
So. And, you know, we've got
something to look forward to this week.
We do. We do.
We're. Going to be back at the the
Brewery Boobies. I think that's sleeping in on
Saturday. Oh, Oh yeah, that too.
(02:16):
Yes, that too. Yeah, I don't know if I'm going
to get to sleep in on, I might have to work, you never know.
But that's right. But we do have the
investigation, but we'll dig more into that later.
So Yep, back. To the first first of the year.
So, and I'm going to give a shout out to a friend out there,
today is Chris Mendez's birthday.
So happy. To get out, he has birthdays.
He does. Maybe one of these days he'll be
(02:38):
old enough to not run over, you know, people and at
investigations. Glad you said it, I really am.
It's never going to get old. It never no.
Happy birthday Chris, but I'm happy for you and I hope you've
had a great day out and we'll catch up and celebrate with you
sometime soon. Yeah, so anyway.
That's it for me Yeah, me too. I honestly, it's been a dull
(03:01):
week and not not much is going on.
Yeah, it's been cold as get out and nobody's doing anything.
So, you know, we're just laying low and getting ready to do
stuff. So.
OK. And we got that comment.
Hi, Bert. It says in the words of the
drunk dad on Independence Day. Hello boys.
(03:23):
So good to see you, Bert. And Heather Wish was wishing our
friend Chris a happy birthday onFacebook.
So there you go. Yeah, so glad you could join
tonight, Heather and Bert so. Thanks for joining.
You know, it's funny when when you start, you know, social
media friendships, right? The, the idea of physical
(03:46):
contact, like handing a card to somebody goes out the window,
right? Because people are everywhere.
And that's the beauty of it. You don't have to be in the same
space. And, you know, Chris is, you
know, a bit to the east of us and just far enough away that
it's not easy to catch up physically, you know, unless
we're out somewhere for something, an investigation or
whatnot. So, you know, hence the social
media says you can do all that good stuff there and.
(04:08):
See, but see, I, I spanned it a lot.
I, I cheated Jamie. I took my birthday off social
media. So people can't just do that.
They have to reach out to me andI try to make an effort to
either send them a personal message via Messenger or a text
message or something like that, because everybody posts it on
Facebook. It depends on the relationship.
(04:29):
Well two things. One thanks for making me look
bad because I I send the messageon the socials and.
Is that? If you hold on, if you take your
birthday off the social media site, does that mean you don't
age anymore? No, no, I wish.
I mean, it could get worse, you know?
So anyway, we digress So. All right, all right.
(04:51):
Well, Speaking of things that are old, let's let's talk about
our topic tonight. We're going to dig into and
explore Grimm's fairy tales. So do you know any of these
things? Have you heard of it before?
I I've heard of them and I'm sure I know some of them, but I
just, I couldn't tell you that they were Grimm's Fairy Tales.
(05:14):
So I remember having some books as a kid.
Sure. I think we, it's fair to say we
probably all have at least one or we've been told the tales.
We we know the tales wherever wewere told them or how we learned
them. Some are visual and I'll get to
that, you know, but they've beenaround for a long time.
Is. Is Hansel and Gretel one of
them? Yes, see it is actually, yes,
(05:38):
Yep. And well, we'll get into more of
that, but there's, there's a little over 200 of them in
total, but it's 84 originally. So it's kind of interesting how
they expanded and I'll get into that as well and the why part of
it. But it is all about the why.
I think there's, there's an important thing here that might
be overlooked a little bit because of the fact that these
(06:00):
have just been 200 years of us having these stories in our
cultures. You know what part of the world
you're from, the stories are familiar.
They may have their own twists and you know, it's folklore.
And we've, we've explored enoughof that, I think through these
episodes to know that, you know,folklore and or urban legends,
another way of saying it, right?And there's so many of them that
(06:23):
are so similar that, you know, it's sort of like a whisper down
the lane or telephone game tale,especially when they're
undocumented. You know, the, the cool thing
about the Grims is that they diddocument and they continue to do
so. And they have therefore saved
some of this that would have been lost, perhaps, or expanded
(06:45):
to different directions. And, you know, stories change
every time they're told. It's a fascinating thing.
And I'll even get into how it ties to the paranormal.
That's OK. Let me get to the program part
before I I'll stop Griffin here.Let me start with this.
Every fairy tale ends in happilyever after, right?
(07:07):
They did begin with. OK, if you had to recount the
story of Cinderella right now, you could probably do it by
heart. Wicked Stepmother, Glass
Slipper, Stroke of Midnight, yadda yadda.
Probably real. Also real off the story of Snow
White or Little Red Riding Hood without needing to really think
about it all too much as well. These stories are pretty well
woven into our cultural DNA by now, and a lot of that is due to
(07:30):
the work of the Grimm Brothers. But the versions we know now
aren't the versions of Grimm's originally published, and the
stories weren't originally intended for kids at all.
Back in the early 1800s, Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm were working
as librarians. Born into a well off family,
their lives took a turn for the worse when their father died and
(07:51):
the brothers struggled through school and the university while
in poverty. Librarians weren't particularly
paid well, and frankly, they still aren't.
But those were still were both keen scholars and their work
gave them both time and opportunity to their their do
their own research that led themto put together a collection of
folk tales. The story is the Brothers Grimm
(08:12):
first collected are brusque, blunt, absurd, comical and
tragic. They are not, strictly speaking,
fairy tales. In fact, the Grimm is never
intended for the tales to be read by children.
The tales are about children andtheir families and how they
reacted to the difficult conditions under which they
lived. Think about the 18101812 window
(08:34):
in Europe. Things were tough.
They're coming through some somewars, you know, think about our
our home base with the the brewery and boobies brewery,
Mount Joy, PA, right, the boobiefamily.
Eloise wanted to come over shortly ahead of a little bit
more into the future of this. But, you know, coming out of a
period of, of rough wars, territorial disputes, things
(08:57):
like that, you know, it was an unsettled time and, and of 14
bad things happen. So the Grimms thought the
stories and their morals emanated naturally from the
German people in an oral tradition, and they wanted to
preserve them before the tales were lost forever.
As I said earlier, although the young Germans had not entirely
(09:17):
formalized their concept of folklore while they worked on
the publication of the 1st edition, they held to their
original principle to salvage the relics from the past stories
that were passed along. They intended to trace and grasp
the essence of cultural evolution and to demonstrate how
natural language stemming from the needs, the needs, customs
(09:38):
and rituals of the common peoplecreated authentic bonds and
helped forge civilized communities.
One of the reasons they called their collection of tales an
educational manual. And there's a German word here
that I am not even going to try to say that word.
All right, Why not a reezy hunchbunch?
(09:58):
It's really it's that's exactly how it sounds is that the tales
recalled the basic values of theGerman people through
storytelling. The Grimm's wanted to gift the
oral tales to the German people,not realizing that these tales
would assume relevant in all cultures.
Though the tales can be considered part of a German
nationalist movement in the 19thcentury, they were also related
(10:20):
to tales from many other nationsand this relationship accounts
for their international appeal today.
Turning to the tales of the 1st edition, a reader might notice
that many of the tales, such as The Hand with the Knife, How
some children Played at slaughtering, and The Children
of Famine have nothing to do with fairies or happy endings.
(10:40):
Instead, these dark narratives are about real living
conditions. In the 19th century, for
instance, the Children of Faminebegins this way.
Once Upon a time, there was a woman with two daughters, and
they have become so poor that they no longer had even a piece
of bread to put in their mouths.Their hunger became so great
that their mother became unhinged and desperate.
(11:02):
Indeed, she said to her children, I've got to kill you
so that I can get something to eat.
Yeah. In another haunting tale, the
Godfather, a poor man in need ofa godfather, unknowingly chooses
the devil who may eat him after a visit to the devil's House of
horrors. There's some themes of the devil
(11:25):
being involved in a lot of the tales.
These tales remitted from later editions, from the 1st edition
in 191812, I'm Sorry, to 1815 tothe final one in 1857.
The Grimm has received numerous versions of tales already in
their collection and new tales from strangers, friends and
colleagues, and they often decided to replace one tale with
(11:48):
another version, to delete some of the tales, or to include
variants in their footnotes. Interestingly, several Grimm
tales were explored in animated feature films by Walt Disney.
Let's take a look at these. So the first Snow White,
according to Disney, and I'm assuming we've all seen this,
(12:09):
right? Animated 1922 or so, the heyday
of Disney. So according to Disney,
threatened by her stepdaughter'sbeauty, a wicked stepmother
orders a Huntsman to take the young girl out into the woods
and kill her, bringing back her heart.
The Huntsman can't do it, and let's no way to escape into the
forest. She finds a tiny house where
(12:31):
singing dwarves, all named for their defining characteristics,
live. They decide to let her stay and
keep house for them. How very kind, right?
Yeah, exactly. The wicked queen finds out via
her magic mirror that Snow Whiteisn't dead and sets out to kill
her with a poisoned apple through the through.
Though the dwarves get revenge by driving the queen off a the
(12:52):
edge of a Cliff, they can't wakeSnow White until a passing
Prince comes and wakes her with true Love's kiss, and they live
happily ever after. Sounds right.
Sounds like what we know, right?Yeah.
So originally though, in the 1stedition of the story, it wasn't
a wicked, wicked stepmother at all.
It was Snow White's actual mother.
(13:15):
And she didn't just want Snow White's heart, she wanted her
lungs and her liver too. When she discovered that the
Huntsman hadn't killed the girl,she sets out to try to kill her
in three different ways, with anoverly tight corset suffocating
her with a poison comb. Don't know what that would do,
but OK. And finally with, well, a
(13:36):
poisoned apple. It's also not true Love's kiss
that revives Snow White. It's a good shake as the Prince
attempts to make off with Snow White's glass coffin and the
Queen doesn't get pushed off a Cliff.
She's forced to dance herself todeath in a pair of red hot iron
shoes. Ouch.
Interesting. A and next Cinderella favorite,
(14:03):
Right. Everybody loves Cinderella.
They can sing that. I'm hearing the song, you know,
in my head. Yeah.
Now, there we go. Well, according to Disney, after
her widowed father remarries andthen dies, Cinderella is left at
the mercy of her wicked stepmother and two ugly step
sisters. They force her to do manual
labor and labor, I'm sorry, and wear rags.
(14:23):
But she's so sweet and kind, beautiful that even wild animals
love her and help her out. Where are those for me?
Like, I'm sweet and kind in it, you know?
Nevermind. Yeah.
Yeah. Apparently not in sweet enough.
When the Prince of the Kingdom throws a ball, Cinderella's
fairy godmother appears and creates a dress coach and
footman for her so she can go tothe party.
(14:46):
The Prince falls in love with her, but the magic ends at
midnight, so she has to run away, leaving behind only her
glass slipper. The Prince travels that the land
looking for the girl who fits the shoe, but her step sisters
sabotage her by smashing it. Luckily, she still has the other
shoe, so she gets to live happily ever after.
Too, right? Sound right?
(15:08):
OK, well, not originally. The Cinderella story originally
appeared in the volume of Charles Perrault's Fairy Tales,
but in the Grimm's version. Cinderella or Ashton Poodle or
Asheville has two beautiful stepsisters and they just happen
to be ugly, horrible people. There's no fairy godmother, just
(15:30):
white doves sent butts to help Cinderella by her dead mother.
OK, paranormal perhaps. And the Prince actually holds 3
balls. At midday on the third night,
the Prince lays a tar trap for Cinderella where she loses her
shoe instead of it slipping off.When her sisters get the chance
(15:51):
to try on the missing shoe, theyeach cut off different parts of
their feet in order to fit into the tiny slipper, but the blood
dripping from the shoes gives them away.
The Prince eventually finds the girl, and at their wedding the
magic doves reappear to Peck outthe evil sisters.
Eyes. So, you know, what's interesting
is are you familiar with Into the Woods of?
(16:14):
Course I'm going to get there actually.
Sorry. Sorry.
No, no, it, it, it that, that was through this for me the
whole time, you know, and just for reference, we, we have not
gotten through an episode of theshow in the last several weeks
without having a musical reference of some kind.
So I what the heck, yes, absolutely.
(16:36):
There's definitely themes and and I think that's the point,
you know, there's so much of this can be can be kind of
tagged, you know, of different ways they overlay each other
similarly. Anyway, a lot of the stories.
All right, so the next Sleeping Beauty, according to Disney, a
king and queen throw a huge party to celebrate the birth of
their daughter Aurora. But though they invite three
(16:59):
good fairies who each give theirblessings, they didn't invite
the evil fairy Maleficent. Angry about being snubbed, she
crashes the party and bestows upon the girl a curse.
Before she turns 16, she'll prick her finger on a spinning
wheel and die. One of the good fairies manages
to modify the curse so that Aurora won't die.
(17:19):
She'll just sleep until she's awoken by true Love's kiss.
Yeah, you know that again. The fairies try to hide the
girl, and she eventually meets and sings to the forest, to the
Prince in the forest. But curses don't get hidden,
can't be hidden from, and so sheends up pricking her finger and
falling asleep anyway. Maleficent locks the Prince in
(17:40):
her dungeon so he can't break the curse, but the good fairies
rescue him. Maleficent turns into a dragon,
because you know, why not, but the Prince pushes her off a
Cliff and wakes Aurora with a kiss.
You know, there must be a lot ofcliffs in Germany.
That's two. Now you know.
And now cue the Happily Ever After music.
(18:01):
Originally, though, this is actually an interesting one
because the grim version of the story is pretty close to the
Disney version, but there's a magic frog at the beginning,
there's 13 fairies instead of three, and there's a lot of dead
suitors stuck in the forest surrounding the castle.
Otherwise, the story's pretty familiar.
However, the story was also published by other authors
(18:23):
before the Grimm's got their hands on it, and those versions
are pretty nasty. Here's some examples.
And Gian Bastista's version from1634.
Once the Prince finds Sleeping Beauty, he rapes her, and she
only wakes up when one of the children she bore whilst asleep
sucks the splinter out of her finger by mistake.
(18:44):
Horrible. And through a though.
Peralta's version in 19 or 1697.Sorry, removes the rapes it
chucks in an epilogue worthy with an evil stepmother who
tries to eat the happy couple's children and ends up being
thrown into a pit of Vipers. It really says something when
the Grimm's version is nicer than the others, right?
(19:05):
So which which story is? What's the name of the Grimm's
story? Hang on, I'll have to check my
reference material. It's quite a tome, you know,
Honestly, I don't know off top my head.
It's not, it's not necessarily because it's The thing is The
thing is this the the original, if you get to the original 64
(19:27):
and it's hard to find an original version and a copy
anymore because it's forever old.
The names are different. The the stories as they've been
modified through the years, the names are changing, giving it a
spin of some kind or another. Because it it sounds like the
same theme as Rumpelstiltskin, but it's I don't think it.
That's a separate 1, isn't it? Yes, it's absolutely is.
(19:49):
OK. All right, the next Rapunzel,
according to Disney and Disney'sadaptation of Rapunzel, is
called Tangled. It's very recent, and it's not
very traditional. Rapunzel gets a lot more agency
than most other Disney princesses, and her Prince isn't
really a Prince at all. But the elements of a sanitized
(20:11):
Rapunzel story are there. A beautiful Princess is kept
captive by a witch. Who uses the girl's long hair to
climb in and out of a tower prison and it's only when she
meets a man that she gets to escape.
Originally, according to the Grims, the reason the Wicked
Witch gets to make off with babyRapunzel is that her dad stole
(20:33):
herbs from the witch's garden tomeet the wife's craving his
wife's cravings, and when she hegets caught, he agrees to hand
over his first born. Now, Chad, this sounds a lot.
Like Into the Woods, doesn't it?It does, yes.
Stuck in the tower, Rapunzel let's down her hair for the
witch day after day, but when a passing Prince hears her
singing, he decides to pay Rapunzel a visit himself.
(20:56):
He secretly visits her several times, and the witch only finds
out because Rapunzel gets pregnant and innocently asks why
her belly's getting so big. In a rage, the witch, which cuts
off the girl's hair, uses it to lower the Prince back into the
tower, then chucks him off the top, letting him fall into a
thorn Bush that plucks out his eyes.
(21:16):
Eventually, though, there was a happy ending where the couple
get back together and Rapunzel'stear Tears heal the prince's
eyes. Yeah, that sounds very much
like. In other words, Sondheim went
back to the traditional. Yeah, who knew?
Heather wants to know why does eating children seem to be so
(21:37):
popular? They're delicious little BBQ,
some salt and pepper done. They're smaller.
They don't take long to cook. I, I don't know, it's the, it's
the weirdest part of it, you know, I mean, other than
gruesome deaths, you know, I don't think that there is
(21:58):
anything weirder than the desired.
And that's it's common in a lot of stories.
There is, well, I'm getting maybe a little ahead of myself
here to say this, but there are prevalence is a prevalence of
child abuse through most of these stories, but also looking
at an era when child abuse isn'twhat we would consider it today.
It was just discipline, right? So that's part of it as well.
(22:21):
And perhaps it was the threat ofbeing eaten more so than it was
the fact of it as the behavior modifier maybe.
Or maybe there's eight kids, I don't know.
OK, so here are some other examples of how stories changed
between the 1st and 4th editionsof the Grims work.
And that's the difference between 18101812 and 1847.
(22:43):
So the big gap in between the terse tale called The Wildman,
in which a mysterious, powerful king helps a boy who has helped
him escape from a cage, is embellished and transformed into
a very long, elaborate tale thatis now called Iron Hands.
The Wildman in 1812 in the 1812 version is more kind than the
(23:04):
stern Iron Hands who determines a young man's destiny and a
coming of age story. It's a bit hard on him.
Likewise, the Devil in the GreenCoat is given a new title,
Bearskin, and totally a new beginning and meaning.
In the 1812 tale, the Grimm is portrayed an oppressed, timid
young man abandoned in the woodsby his brothers.
(23:26):
He accepts the devil's green coat that will enable him to
survive for seven years if he doesn't shave or clean himself.
Clearly he's a teenager. He's cool with that, right?
Yeah. In the much longer 1857 version,
there are echoes of the Napoleonic Wars.
The protagonist is a discharged and homeless soldier who is
(23:46):
treated poorly by his family andthen turns to the devil for
survival. All of the tales in the 1st
edition bear the marks of their diverse storytellers who
believed in the magic, superstitions, and miraculous
transformations of the tales. It may be difficult for us to
understand why this is the case,but for the storytellers and
writers of these tales, the stories contain truths about the
(24:07):
living conditions of their times.
The tales in the 1st edition were collected not from
peasants, as it is commonly commonly believed, but mainly
from literate people whom the Grimmons came to know quite
well. Evidence shows that these
stories often were obtained fromilliterate or anonymous
informants though, but they werepassed through to them by more
(24:28):
well called reputable people. Even if they did not know their
informants, the Grimms came to trust almost everyone who
contributed to their collection.It is this mutual trust that
marks the tales as something special and endows them with a
certain humanity, what Germans call men's chic keit.
And it is mutual trust among folklorists in the 19th century
(24:49):
that marks it as a golden age offolk and fairy tales.
The tales in the 1st edition seta certain standard that the
collectors began to follow, and still follow even today.
We have fun fact while we're at this.
Their books would become second in popularity only to the Bible
in German speaking lands by the 20th century.
They would become the most collection, the most famous
(25:11):
collection of folk and fairy tales in the Western world.
That's impressive. Yeah.
So to conclude, in gathering thetales, the Grimm's made a unique
contribution to folklore and their kinder UN Ham Hamarchdan,
which is children in the household tales, it's originally
called is even listed by UNESCO,which is the United Nations
(25:34):
Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization in its
memory of the World Registry. So it is a protected entity now.
It was in large, in large part because of their first edition,
published in two volumes in 1812and 1815, that inspired
folklorists in Europe and Great Britain.
Because Great Britain's not in Europe, apparently, to gather
(25:55):
tales from their oral traditionsto preserve as part of their
cultural heritage. Though brusque and raw, the
Grimm's tales of the 1st editionstill resonate with us today
because they indicate how we cantransform ourselves and our
conditions to live in a better world.
As biologists, collectors, translators, researchers,
(26:16):
editors, and mediators, their grims worked in the hope that
their tales would benefit us in unimaginable ways.
And indeed, it is this hope thatcan still be felt when we read
and listen to their tales today.Before we discuss, let me cite
some sources. Britannica.com, neh.gov, which
(26:36):
is the National Endowment for the Humanities, thethings.com,
and what might be in my new favorite website,
jendenofgeek.com. Check it out.
Atlas Obscure is going to be missing a a client.
I I can, I can do both, I'm sure.
OK, so there's a lot, right? And it's interesting considering
(27:01):
there is, you know, 200 plus stories now.
But even if we're only 86, I think there would still be a lot
going on. What do you think?
I, I think it's definitely interesting how they changed
through the, their different publications to evolve with the
(27:23):
times. I mean, I, I don't, there's not,
there's not a lot that we can say here is a paranormal or not.
There's a few, there's a few things, but but I just think
it's, I think it's interesting though, how it evolved and how
it was probably meant as lessons.
And I think, you know, like eating the eating children
(27:45):
thing, it was probably don't do that or you might get eaten by
blah, blah, you know, whatever. Sure.
So, and I, I, you know, I'm not familiar with that time period
in Germany, but you know, I'm guessing that it was, you know,
the food was scarce and, you know, it was like, well, if
you're not careful, you'll, you'll be the next meal.
(28:08):
Sure. You're also talking about rural
areas, you know, that that weren't well, you know, kind of
like we talked about with the children of wool pit, the green
children wool pit last week, youknow, the wolf, the wolf pits as
they were, you know, where the were protection against the
things that were around them that they couldn't control, you
know, So, you know, these are still rural, very rural places.
(28:29):
And, you know, rural tails startin rural areas, start to grow,
and then they get passed along as people travel through and it
gives them some sense of fantasticalism.
That's the order I just made-up.You can use it if you need it,
you know, and it, it just kind of expands and it goes from
there. But it's a challenge.
The challenge, whether it's paranormal or not, I'll say
(28:49):
this. The tales involve such things as
sorcery, magic, witchcraft, fairies, dwarves, fairy
godmothers, which are totally are fairies but still separate
ghosts, Dragons, and my favorite, dark spooky woods.
Well, dark spooky woods aren't paranormal where they exist.
(29:11):
And you know. They they, they can be spooky,
but they're, you know, they might have paranormal things in
anyway, Bert says he in that last one.
But still, I still like dark spooky woods anyway, yeah.
Bert said he didn't realize thatthere were so many and that some
of them were from the 1600s. Yeah.
And so the, the, the, the interesting thing, and I think
(29:31):
this is what's kind of to your point of like how, how the
stories changed is that they didn't own these stories to
begin with. They weren't, they were not the
authors. They were the teller and the
collectors. And in that they were, you know,
I guess bound to some degree to tell the tale as it was, was
shared and and then the liberty afterwards to change it as other
versions applied, you know, or like them.
(29:54):
And hence the different editionsthat came through.
If you've been watching the slideshow with us, you know,
there there is countless versions and editions beyond the
original from the Grims. And, you know, as we've moved
forward in time, the stories haven't really, they haven't
(30:17):
really changed. They've been edited, you know,
and probably a better way of saying it to get to the more
modernization that we've come to.
But you know, and of course, many of that illustrations
added, you know, there are movieversions of them of everything
obviously outside of the the Disney stuff, but there's a
Brothers Grimm movie, Matt Damonand Heath Ledger in it.
(30:38):
There's versions of other tales.Hansel and Gretel vampire hunter
is one of them. You know, like, what the heck,
That's not from that long as Jeremy Renner in it, you know,
so an actor of our day. So you know, it's an early film
for him, but still, you know, not not that far back in our our
past. So, and you go back in time, you
know, a lot of stuff through theyears have been done, stage
(31:01):
productions, of course, you know, mentioned Into the Woods
and adaptation for the most partof a lot of stories combined.
Your chance to go see it, go seeit, it's well, it's well done.
You know, it's just one of thosethings where when when you you
don't own it, but you want to honor it.
This is exactly what they did. And you know, the tales were
(31:22):
presented as they were told. Yeah, Bert says.
I like the Groom TV show. Yep.
Oh gosh, What was it Once Upon atime or something like that?
Once, maybe it's just called Once on the ABC couple years
ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was, there was there was anEmma fascination for quite a
(31:43):
while, so. Exactly.
I remember it was actually, it was a good show.
I mean, I enjoyed. It it was well done.
It was it was bringing bringing a classic into modern day.
So it was an interesting twist, so.
Absolutely. So, you know, and, and I think,
(32:04):
you know, these tales are now part of our culture, you know,
and whether we acknowledge them or not, sometimes we don't even
know they're Grimm's tales anymore.
Because I think that's, I was realizing that as you were going
through them, I was like, Oh yeah, that that one.
I know, that one I know. And.
I, I had this thought, you know,if, if they did not do the work
(32:24):
and, you know, weren't in the place to do this and, and at
their time and era, you know, would these tales still be
something that's common or popular to us today when they've
made their way to us anyway? And maybe, but not as likely.
So we got to give we got to tip the cap here, I think to the
Grims and really, you know, givethem their flowers for this
(32:46):
because it's it it it's it's amazing how long these stories
have have held up. And, you know, Chad, there was
not not to step back a little bit, but there's a certain magic
in folklore, you know, because everything is believable in the
town. You know, I'm not, I've never
watched any of these, you know, classic Disney films and went,
(33:07):
Nah, that's not possible. Right, it's.
Just part of the tale and it's cool and we get absorbed in it
and, and we just let our imaginations go with it and
obviously they all have happy endings, so it's pretty cool,
but. Right.
We just, we just accept and we go and it's neat.
Yeah, and it is interesting how it did it, what they did
(33:30):
document they did, you know, 'cause there there's so many
stories. That would be cool if people did
that now. Well, and we do to some degree,
but you know it now it's it's not a book so much as it is
digital media, you know, social media for sure.
(33:50):
But you know, like YouTube and other places that you can, you
can create a video, you know, and upload it and it's to the
world in seconds. It took time for this to carry
out of Germany. First of all, time took time to
carry across Germany, then move forward and out of there, you
know, out of the country into the rest of the continent and
around the rest of the world. You know, So it's amazing to me,
(34:11):
you know, in an era without any kind of reach other than just
carrying a book in your bag, youknow, kind of thing, that that
this expanded so fast and far and stuck so, so hard.
I guess, you know, you bring up a good point that like social
media is doing this now for us. And like, I grew up South of
(34:34):
Gettysburg, you know that I, andthere's, there's the orphanage
in Gettysburg, but growing up there, I never knew the, the,
the orphanage existed, any of the story about it.
But through social media, more so than even any of the TV shows
is when I started learning aboutit.
I'm like, wait, what? And like, it was right across
(34:57):
the street from a place that I'dbeen multiple times and knew
nothing of it. And you know, and you know, now
I've got the chance to investigate it.
So it's really I, I think we're living in a time where this,
you're right, this is happening,but just in a different way.
Yeah, I, I, I'm, that's my opinion anyway.
But I you know, I can see it, you know, with, with respects to
(35:21):
like even mass media shows, you know, like I learn, I see up and
I, I watched, you know, let's say a Josh Gates show, you know,
whatever they are expeditioniststhat you know, there's so many
names, you know, ghost adventures, ghost hunters, you
know, all that stuff. You know, I get, I get excited
to watch those shows because I get to learn about a place I
know nothing about. Or what's really cool is when
(35:44):
they do a place you've been to, you know, and you're like, wow,
wow, you know, I saw that I did that or I know, or.
When you're going to and you're like, oh, this.
Is a good one Yeah that's true you know this this season for
premiere of expedition Unknown was Trans Allegheny Lunatic
Asylum so. And a two-part episode at that
(36:05):
so you know that was I got superexcited knowing I was going you
know a couple months so. And then I then I think I was
watching and I'm like, Jamie, doyou know what's on?
I mean, and you're like wait till the end.
Wait till the end of the second episode.
Yep. But that's the point.
There's a tale. Every one of those is a version
of a tale that you know is a hasa collective.
And, you know, we have, we are, we are in this mix ourselves
(36:29):
with what we get to do at Boobie's Brewery.
There is a tale of the establishment.
There is a tale of the people who were there and the, and the
activities that they created while they were there and, and
the things that they did that energies have, you know,
captured and remained. We get to tell that tale every
time we have a public investigation.
We're spreading folklore and, you know, expanding it anyway to
(36:51):
others. And, you know, they don't look
at it that way because, you know, we're sharing information,
but that's really what it is. But that's what folklore was,
and it was verbal telling. And so.
But yeah. And there's we are professional
folklorists now, right? Yeah.
So sort of well, I mean now, nowI'm kidding, but well, and and
you know, we're. A degree in folklore, by the
(37:13):
way. Really.
Yes, you can. It's fascinating.
Cool. There it is.
Yeah. And and I like this actually.
What Burt, just just a comment here.
But also keeping their memory alive.
Absolutely. You know, and that's that's the
tale of all of these things. You know, that's the point
perhaps of all of these stories.And the names may not be the
(37:35):
names of the originals, but the idea is that we're sharing that
story of someone and that I'm remembering them.
So well, and we're, you know, we're doing, you know, some,
some things to, to keep it alivein other ways.
I'm working on the Jot Nicks paranormal website.
But we're also going to have, you know, we're, as we're
digging in and researching things about the brewery.
(37:58):
You know, we're, I'm going to, I'm planning on posting things
like the death certificate of, of Aloise and just things that
we've found and discovered over the years that we can can share
and make sure that everybody's aware of.
That's a repository. And that's, that's exactly what
this is. It's a repository of stories,
you know, these, these editions and even though they have been
(38:19):
modified from 1st to the 4th edition or so, you know, and
that that's, that's progression,I think more than it is
intention of, of just not likingit, you know, and how many times
have you written, you know, something and as a first draft
and then by the time you're at your final, it's not the same
anymore. You know, commonly, right,
pretty much every, everything wedo for these shows, or the idea
(38:43):
at least starts off over here and it ends up over there, you
know, so, but the more you, the more you learn about something,
the more information you glean and gather, the more you can
expand and, and, you know, contour where you're going with
it. And, you know, we all have our
own unique ways of telling stories as well.
And I think that's key to this. You know, the Grims had a unique
(39:04):
way of wanting to tell stories. And, you know, not everything
that they captured or were provided to them was documented
in their, in their books. There's quite a few, and I
thought one of them was really interesting.
The, the, the tail, Puss in Boots, which I think we all
know, we certainly know from Shrek, right, The character.
And there's another one, right? Another kind of conglomerate of
(39:27):
a bunch of fairy tales, But thatwas considered too French for
them. They didn't include it in the
first edition. Oh, really?
Interesting. Yeah, so, and there's a few
others that were also consideredtoo French.
There were some that were considered too Middle Eastern as
well that didn't make it into the first or second edition, but
more so toward the end, right? So, you know, and as the
(39:48):
globalization of it all kind of expanded and more stories kept
coming and they realized they had to keep continuing to expand
out. And that's how they went from 86
to like 210 pretty quick as far as stories so.
Now did so obviously the the Grimm brothers haven't lived
forever like this story is beingis it family that's carrying on
some of the new publications or is it.
(40:12):
There there, to my knowledge, there is no continuation of the
family in the in the processes of the additions.
So publishers sort of purchased it, and then they they, Yeah.
However, that worked in the 1800s.
Yeah, and how if it worked at all, right.
I don't know if they made much money on these.
You know, obviously the books were sold, but you know, in the
(40:34):
sense of royalties and you know,all of the stuff that we would
we expect today and how we know it today.
You know, the trackability is one thing too.
Like you would really only need a printing press to be able to
create a book. And that's not a small feat in
the 1800s. You know, it's a big setup and
all that, but you know, if you took a book from here, you know,
in, in our area, in Pennsylvania, and it, it
travelled with you to say the Midwest of the US, somewhere
(40:57):
like Nebraska, you know, and somebody liked it and they
wanted to make it themselves. That's all they had to do.
There weren't copyright laws andprotections and stuff.
It was just let's go print this ourselves and then it would and
then it would. But the good news of that is it
would allow it to go further, faster that way than it would be
if it just came from a single source with a very small
distribution network or any network at all.
(41:20):
You know, you'd have to come to them to get it.
So there's there's possibly somegood in that.
Yeah, again, interesting money. What's that?
There's no money in it for the Grimm.
It's just interesting how times have changed, you know, you know
globalization and you know. Oh, absolutely.
(41:42):
I mean, you could write a book tomorrow, Jamie, and it would
be, you know, worldwide within acouple of years.
It might be the couple weeks realistically with with digital
release, you know, all it has todo and and we can you know, this
is a this is a different direction, but you know our our
good friend Ron. Ron Yakavetti is A5 time author.
His books are available on Amazon.
(42:02):
You know, I don't have to go find him to get a copy.
I can just dial it up and say I want to.
I look him up in the search and there they are, you know, and
I've, I've. Put him on Wish for five days.
And a gift time, so you know, Yeah.
I'm sorry, what was that? I.
Was going to say if you want that signed copy though.
Well, that's different, right? Absolutely, but you know, it,
that's that is the world now is that you know that you don't
(42:25):
have to go through the arduous process of, you know, the, the
and first of all, you're writingon a typewrite.
You're not writing on a typewriter with a quill as they
would have been. You know, now we're we're using
everything on our tablets and laptops and we can do that
anywhere at any time. We don't have to go, you know,
with a print out of everything in hand to an editor who has to
(42:45):
then, you know, get through their process and then, you
know, get it back to you in in similar with a bunch of red
marks on it, you know, and then you go back to your work and you
re edit and you really, you know, redo and represent, you
know, that's that's long and slow.
Everything is digital now and it's amazing.
But Jamie, it wasn't that long ago that we were still doing
(43:08):
hand manuscripts. That's true.
I agree. I mean, in our lifetime, yeah,
that's the point. And the world has changed
rapidly over the last, you know this within this generation.
And I wonder what it will be going forward.
Right. So we we've definitely.
Rapid expansion of the information that we are trying
to present and, and even us, youknow, we're, we're around the
(43:30):
world with this program. That's amazing to me.
Like I, I don't know if you noticed, but we're it's 22
countries now. I I have, I have and thank you
all. We really, really appreciate
that. Yeah, so, so very cool.
But that's the point, right? There's, there's no lines
anymore. You know, it's not like we're
watching network television backin the 70s for, you know, there
(43:51):
were so many episodes, and over the summer, it was reruns, and
then you had to wait for everything.
Now and then, it's just streams at all times.
And you're like, you're picking in where you're picking and
going wherever you want to. It's amazing.
Yeah. So what a great time to be
alive. Because people like us have a
platform, Jamie, so well that that.
(44:11):
Is that's what I have. I appreciate the opportunity to
to present on this. I was, I was.
There's always been an interest from mine, you know, and then
the tale, the original tales truly are not, not what we know
today. Oh, definitely not so.
They all, they all start with Once Upon a time, but they
certainly all did not live happily ever after.
Yeah, because not not many stories are happily ever after,
(44:33):
you know? Nope, real life isn't happily
ever after. Not always agreed.
So, so on that note, thank you Jamie for pulling this together.
Definitely interesting. Nice job.
Thanks. But coming up we've got a couple
couple more interesting episodes.
(44:54):
Let me see. Of course, I've got my camera in
front of it. Next week I will be doing the
the Randlesham Forest incident. You don't know anything about
this. I got nothing on this one.
I'm not looking it up. I'm just going to let.
It ride well I it you know. We're.
We're back to Suffolk and Suffolk, England.
OK, so I figured it sounded British.
(45:16):
It did, all right. 1980s. Oh.
OK, so I'll just leave that there and we will.
We'll go with that. But yeah, not.
I'm expecting people with, you know, 2 polo shirts with pop pop
collars and some parachute pants.
Chuck Taylors. Sorry, Yeah, we'll we'll see.
(45:38):
So anyway, we'll, we'll dig intothat next week, March 4th, as we
move into Mardi Gras, right? Well, it's it's Fat Tuesday.
Fat Tuesday, the end of Mardi Gras.
Really true. Yeah.
Getting rid of all this stuff. Yeah, as we're, as we're moving
into Lent, but the end of Mardi Gras, Jamie's going to dig into
New Orleans, America's most haunted city.
(46:01):
The week after that, I'm going to jump into Leap Castle and do
it every time. March 18th, Tommy Knockers,
which I didn't know what this was.
I had to, you know, as I, as I was looking up to make sure I
had the spelling right, which I didn't.
I figured out what that is. And then I was sort of sort of
(46:23):
tying the couple things togetherhere as we we move on.
I'm going to do the dibic box and then Jamie's going to do
paranormal hoaxes. So maybe that gives you a clue
to the Dibic box. So right, so and then Jamie,
believe it or not, after that, we're into Tala and stuff.
We are. There we're so every day is
getting closer. It is.
(46:44):
Yep. So that's what we got coming up
in our shows, Paranormal Investigations.
We're here, Jamie. We're back.
Yes, let's do this. This Saturday, February 22nd at
the brewery, Tickets are limited.
They're they're, I'm not going to say we're selling out fast,
but the the numbers are yeah, yeah, March. 20 to go closer,
(47:09):
more go quickly, closer to the dates as well, exactly the
weekend plans and you know, say let's do this.
So then we're March 22nd, exactly 4 weeks later we're back
again. Then the next thing after that
will be our trip to Tala, which we are all looking forward to.
And then April 26th, we will be back at the brewery.
(47:33):
Tickets are available if you go to boobiesbrewery.com, that's
bubesbrewery.com back slash entertainment and that'll take
you to their saver stub site andyou can get tickets there.
Let's see what else we've got. In May, May 17th we will be
(47:58):
pairing up with we're going to start some of our peri unity,
peri unity things. Stacey and Gary Smith from this
is where I'm going to Landon Legends Paranormal.
We'll be teaming up with Jotnicks and we will be doing a
Co investigation with public. It'll be a lot of fun.
(48:20):
I know Stacey fairly well. We've met it several times.
Gary's like nice guy. I know Missy has done some
investigating with them as well.So it, it, it'll be, it'll be a
fun night. If you want to learn more about
Stacy, she has a podcast, RusticSpirit podcast.
It's on Facebook and stuff. So look that up and check it
(48:41):
out. You know, again, that'll be a
good, that'll be a fun night. Private investigations at
Boobies Brewery are available ifyou're interested in having the
brewery to yourself. You know once the restaurant
closes, you get the brewery to yourself.
(49:03):
You can dive into that to to book that experience, reach out
to melissa.kellerwhichism.keller0606@gmail.com.
She can get you hooked up with that.
There's places to stay because Jamie Mountjoy is more fun when
you sleep over. Yes, it is.
That's. True.
So we got that going for us. 17 tries later, Chad, way to go.
(49:29):
Yeah, well, I, I, I have my Cheat Sheets now.
There's a hotel still at the brewery and there's also a, an
Airbnb across the street. Both great options to to stay.
So check that out. And last but not least, follow
us on the socials. You found us on Facebook or
(49:50):
YouTube. We're starting to pick up posts
in our TikTok, which is at Jotnix Paranorma.
No L on the end of that, but if you if you search Jotnix
Paranormal, you will find us. We're on Instagram.
You can e-mail Jamie and I at paranormallenspodcast@gmail.com.
You can find us on Spotify, Audible, Apple Podcasts, all
(50:16):
those fun places. And you can check out our link
Tree, which links all these things together under one roof
at Link Tree, back slash, Paranormal Lens.
So there you go. Yeah.
Any other thoughts, Jamie? Not really.
I think I'm just going to grab my copy of Fairy Tales and go
(50:40):
start reading some new someones I haven't read before right
before bed. I encourage everyone to do so,
really. There are so many tales and so
many things, obviously, things we know, but there's some unique
themes in some of these stories that you know just really are
worth reading and worth digging into so.
OK, please, but, but not necessarily bedtime stories
(51:00):
though, right? Well, I mean it depends.
Maybe some, I don't know. Not.
Not for all for sure. So you definitely want to read
them with the lights on. This is true, so I'm good.
Thank you all for for joining usagain as always.
And you know, I, I, I'm always one to say this, but if there's
(51:22):
a topic you wish to hear us present on your behalf or that
you, you know, feel near and dear to drop a set line, you
know, paranormal lenspodcast@gmail.com.
You know, we certainly were happy to do so.
We've done listener submissions before.
We'll do more future, you know, we self produce so we can move
our schedule around. All those episodes you saw
coming up can get adjusted and you know, see a little time, do
(51:45):
some research and perhaps we'll have you on as well as a guest.
So it's certainly, we're always looking for more content.
There's a lot out there in the world of paranormals.
We're never going on right now, but you know, the more we know,
the more we can do. So we appreciate that we want
to, we want to feed, feed stuff back to you that you're
interested in. So absolutely.
(52:05):
So Oh my, what a comment from Heather here.
Great to meet them before going to bed.
Before going to bed, you'll dream of eating children.
Oh my goodness, maybe. So all right, well, on that
note, I want to thank Jamie again.
Thank you for pulling this together.
I want to thank all our viewers who are with us live and who are
(52:28):
going to be watching this in thefuture.
If you're watching this some other time, you want to join us
live that way you can add comments and stuff it's Tuesday
nights, 9:00 PM Eastern StandardTime and we're here so join us
so very good All right well Jamie, I know where you're going
(52:49):
to be Saturday night and I'm going to be at the same place so
we're looking forward to that sowe'll.
See you there. Same place, same.
We'll be in the same place at the same time.
For once. This is great.
Yep. So, all right, good night,
everybody. Thank you.
Have a great week, see ya.
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