The Legacy of Hans Holzer

🎙️ Paranormal Lens Podcast - Season 2, Episode 28: The Legacy of Hans Holzer 🎙️

Join us for a deep dive into the life and work of Hans Holzer, one of the most influential figures in paranormal research! In this episode, host Jamie Widener explores the groundbreaking investigations, books, and theories of the man often called the "Father of Modern Ghost Hunting."

From his early fascination with the supernatural to his famous case studies—like the Amityville Horror—Holzer’s work has shaped how we understand and investigate hauntings today. Co-host Chad Thomas joins in to discuss Holzer’s contributions, techniques, and the lasting impact of his research on the field of paranormal investigation.

🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!

Whether you're a longtime paranormal enthusiast or just discovering Holzer’s work, this episode is a must-listen! Tune in as we uncover the mysteries, methods, and legacy of one of the great pioneers of ghost hunting. 👻📖🔍

Episode Transcript

(00:25):
The. Welcome to this week's episode
of Paranormal Lens sponsored by Jot Nick's Paranormal and Jamie
Widener. The other guy over there, over
there here, that guy, that's Chad Thomas.
Most Thomas What's taken, Sir? Oh, you know, it's the, you

(00:50):
know, we've got six more weeks of winter, Jamie.
Yeah, it's true. It's true.
Damn Groundhog, it's six weeks either way.
Come on, let's be honest about it.
Yep, Yep, The Groundhog is not going to affect anything.
We know that. Nope, no, not at least on the
calendar. This is true.
There's no nothing paranormal about the Groundhog.

(01:10):
No, no, just, well, I mean, it'ssort of like an urban legendy
kind of thing, right, You know, right.
Folklore, more folklore perhaps,I guess.
You know, it's and it's, it's one of those things where
because there's history, there is therefore tradition and
therefore something, I don't know, magical about it.

(01:31):
You know, we still do it. It's still fun.
If you ever get out to Punxsutawney, PA, anybody's been
there, you'll know it's, it's anevent, it's a party.
You know, it's quite the thing. Bill Murray covered it very well
Once Upon a time, for several days, several times.
So it is interesting to see how big it is and how how crazy it

(01:52):
gets. So our Octa rare Ali the the
kind of the eastern end of Lancaster County here where we
are is is another one of the prognosticators, but he doesn't
have the following. He doesn't have the marketing
campaign if it. Would.
So sadly, he is. It's still an event, still a fun
thing. And you know, we still, we still

(02:14):
pay attention to it, so why not?So yeah, there there was that
this week. Anything.
Do you do anything fun, Interesting.
I mean, I know you're. Ramping up for Sunday night
something it's it's sad, it's really sad, but true.
I did nothing some organizational stuff around my

(02:34):
house that needed to get done. We had a, we had an estimator
come and something we're going to fix and had to clear out some
spaces to get a look at it. And that was the highlight.
You know, I did all that and I wondered my back hurt the next
day. So figure.
So at this age, yeah. So Brittany said that
technically the Groundhog did see a shadow figure.

(02:55):
So there he's a shadowy figure. Yeah.
We did that going for us so. Very cool.
Hey, Brittany, thanks for coming.
I see Bert Lynch is here too. Good evening, Bert.
Sure, how There's far behind. Yep.
What was it? Oh, you're, you're, you're
ramping up for the Super Bowl orwe're ramping up for the Super
Bowl. We got that on Sunday night.
Yes, Sir, yes, so go birds. Absolutely.

(03:18):
You know it, it's it's one of those things where the the week
in between feels weird, you know, like, you know, playoffs.
We had the Champ FC championshipgame and then we had.
That's part of the reason why this weekend like felt weird,
you know, because it's been football, football, football for
those who watch, obviously, or sports balls as as it's called
in our house, because they don'tkids don't care.

(03:39):
But it's interesting, you know, when you get this close,
everybody's buzzing again, like there was a lull like last week
and now picked up yesterday and today.
And you know, you know, the excitement's building, you know,
and if you don't have a dog in the fight, that's cool.
No pun. No, that's a bad pun.
Probably say the dog in a fight.But if you're not invested in

(03:59):
either of the teams, I know you just hope they have fun, right?
But, you know, here on the East Coast, and especially in the
South Central Pennsylvania, where we're at, it's, it's all
about the eagles. So go birds.
Yep, definitely so. So what?
What did you do this weekend, Sir?
Anything fun in the week in between here?
I I actually had the opportunityto go spend Friday afternoon and

(04:22):
evening in Gettysburg. Never heard of it.
You didn't. No, no.
Met up with some friends, made some new friends.
Chris Mendez, our friend Chris Mendez, Sean Austin was there.
I met a woman investigator from West Virginia named Marianne.

(04:47):
She really good investigator andenjoyed working with her.
And then a couple people from one person from the Jenny Wade
house and one person from the haunted orphanage.
And Chris and I went in the afternoon, went out to Devil's
Den, wandered around in the rainout there, didn't get much.
But then we went to the orphanage that evening spent I

(05:14):
think we started about 8 or 9 O clock and went till about 2:30.
So, you know, couple of six hours.
Great investigation. A lot of, lot of, lot of taping
there that that I have to go through.
We, we did a lot of instant Evpson some of Chris's and Sean's

(05:38):
recorders and a lot of interesting things there.
Probably the first time, you know, that I, I have some
sensitivities, but I don't usually feel the nausea and
things like that. When I experienced some of that
for the first time, like nausea,Lightheadedness in the space,

(05:58):
I've had a little bit of that before, but just not the the
overwhelming like sick feeling. I was picking up on some of that
and that was that was really interesting.
Definitely it's more time there met, met some people who work
there. Great place, not a huge space,
but but really interesting. Some horrible things that

(06:19):
happened there, right? Well, I have, I have a very
serious question to ask you. So in your entire experience
there with with the group, were there any strange noises that
caused anyone to flee and knock people over?
No, but we did talk about it all.
Right, all right, for those who know Chris Mendenz, we were at

(06:39):
the West Virginia Penitentiary and and he and Melissa Keller
are are founder of the Jotnick'sParanormal and Jerry Keller, her
husband, Co founder. I believe we're all in the
kitchen together in the in the cafeteria, I should say.
And there was a very loud bang in the kitchen part of it.
And Chris turned and bolted and Julie plowed Melissa over.
So his escapades to getting out of the space.

(07:01):
So it was years ago and it's still funny today as it was
then. It's not funny because, you
know, to Melissa, I guess, because she got ran over, but
she knows it now. Chris, we love you if you're
listening and catch this somewhere along the way, we're
not talking crap on you. You know, nothing but love for
you. But Oh my gosh, what a what a
funny thing. So I don't let him forget it

(07:21):
either. So I'm glad it came up there.
So and I, I, I didn't run into Andy Andrews, he was out of town
or I would have stopped in to see him because that's where
he's based now as. I know that that's good.
He was actually on his way to toHanover for the.
He's out of Hanover Tavern. Yeah, that was a big, big to do
with their Paracon this weekend.So looks like it was really well

(07:43):
attended. I saw some of the post
information about it, some of the stuff that was happening
live, you know, shout out to to the team down there, Steve Dills
and all they, they are, they runa really great show program with
everything that the Hanover Tavern offers.
And you've been there. Of course, we've had Steve on a
couple times, you know, just great to see that they're

(08:05):
they're thriving. They're doing really well, so.
And maybe next year, maybe next.Year, I know I said that last
year and it's about this year. So it just falls at a weird time
being at the end of the month inJanuary.
It's just difficult to get away.So but yeah, at least to get
down at all. So that's another, another wish
list then kind of thing. So well, Speaking of Speaking of

(08:27):
getting away, I'm, I'm happy to share with you that I am going
to do something this weekend that I have never done before.
And it's not quite a bucket listthing because I don't believe in
bucket list per SE because that means you're going to die kind
of thing. I, I just believe in making, you
know, plans, but I'm going to have the opportunity on Saturday

(08:47):
evening to go out to the Ritz Theatre and hadn't Haddon
Township, NJ to take in their, what's it called, the headliner
series, which is a special eventthey host a couple times a year.
And the folks that are going to be there for this are Ron and
Lourdes with the digital seance experience.

(09:08):
I, I, I hear they're good at what they do.
I'm, I'm, I'm familiar with their work.
Of course, we know very well, very, very well, but I was so
excited to see that they were there and I had time to get
there like on my schedule. So I'm my first time to the
Ritz. I, I, I've heard so many
wonderful things about it. I'm just so excited to get
there. Now the weather's just got to

(09:28):
cooperate. Freezing rain all weekend here.
So you know, and you know, like anything else, maybe maybe
Jersey, maybe more, might be more fun if I sleep over, I
don't know, maybe I'll find out how to make a left turn
somewhere this nice. Having your gas pump for you
though, so I don't know. This is you.
They figured that out. So yeah, looking forward to

(09:50):
that. So, you know, it's, it's, it's
great to get out to new like youdid with your orphanage.
And it's so nice to get out to new spaces occasionally just to,
you know, do something differentand, and something unique.
So, and of course, we have a plan, at least a wish plan to
get back out to the Ritz is at least to some of us in the team
as well later this year or so. Hope to hope to try to help

(10:12):
solidify some of that and have some folks come join us perhaps
on an episode in the near future.
So Frankie and his team. There, Yep.
And Saturday night while you're doing that, I'm going to be with
with Jotnicks doing a a private residential investigation in in

(10:33):
the area. So looking forward to seeing
what we come up with there. It was torn on this opportunity
versus that, so had to go. Yep.
So, so yeah, it's going to be weshould, we should have hopefully
have some interesting stuff for next week to talk about.
Yep, some things to share of course.
And of course, another topic. Right.
Yep. Well, Speaking of topics, we

(10:54):
probably should get to the point, right?
Yeah. What is our topic tonight?
I hope you know because you're talking about it.
Oh, oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, does.
That help does that. Help.
I know that guy well, I don't know him.
I wish I did actually. So tonight we're going to talk
about Hans Holzer and also knownas America's first ghost hunter.

(11:15):
So Chad, I have been a fan of Doctor Holzer for quite a long
time. His work has spanned decades,
unfortunately. You know, I'll get to the
details of him. Unfortunately, he's passed on.
So he might join us tonight. Who knows?
You know, and I'm fine with that.
He's welcome here anytime. But with that, don't tell Steph

(11:37):
I said that. That's why you always buy a
comfy couch. But you know, Doctor Holzer has
decades and decades of infield experience that has shaped and
formed a lot of what we do today.
And, and I'll get to a lot of that in a moment.

(11:57):
So, but probably should start back at the beginning, right?
It all started when he was born.But he also he he also
influenced a very great movie. Jamie, I'll get there.
I'll get there. All right, all right.
Yep, I'll get there. So Hans Holzer was born on
January 26th, 1920 in Vienna, Austria, and he was an author

(12:20):
and a parapsychologist. He actually authored over 140
books on the supernatural, paranormal in witchcraft,
starting with Ghost Hunter in 1963 or this book.
So think about, think about the timing in 1963.
OK, Keep that date in mind as wego forward a little later.

(12:44):
And as far as his longevity in the field.
So Hans came to America with hisbrother in 1938.
He was 18 at the time, in part to get away from an increasingly
aggressive Germany. Think about the era, right?
And a lot of things were changing.
Germany was gearing up for a lotof bad things that were coming
As far as World War Two, he wanted no part of it.

(13:07):
And to make this easier, his father had already lived in New
York City for several years. So they had a pretty smooth
transition place to land some opportunities.
While still in Vienna, he studied archaeology, ancient
history and a field called pneumonistics, which is the
study of currency. And yeah, I had to look that up.

(13:28):
No idea what it was. And when he came to America, he
studied Japanese at Columbia University.
Later in life, he, not long after, I should say, but later
he learned he earned a master's degree in comparative religion
and then a doctorate in parapsychology at the London
College of Applied Sciences. And in case you're wondering,

(13:48):
parapsychology, parapsychology is the study of mental phenomena
which are either excluded from or inexplicable by orthodox
scientific philosophy. And these are things such as
hypnosis, telepathy, mediumship,things like that.
And yeah, I had to look that oneup too.

(14:08):
So now we know and later on he even more later he went to teach
parapsychology, parapsychology at the University, New York
Institute of Technology. So a learned man a a lot of
different degrees and some various interesting directions.

(14:28):
And it's quite a weird kind of collection of stuff if you think
about it. But this isn't where he got to
the paranormal yet overall. So after he was studying at
Columbia University, Holzer indulged in infatuation with the
theater. Back in the 1950s, he wrote
sketches for the short lived Review Safari that's got an
exclamation point in it, and theand the book in music for Hotel

(14:54):
Excelsior about a group of youngAmericans in Paris which opened
in Provincetown, MA and proceeded to go no further.
Does that make it Off Broadway? Kinda.
You have to be on Broadway to get off Broadway, right?
All right, never mind. Well, things go on Broadway,
start off Broadway and move to Broadway sometimes.

(15:14):
So anyway. There was potential and then
later on he also wrote review theater reviews for the London
Sporting Review. One of the things I find that
most interesting about this man is in 1962 he married the
Countess Catherine Genevieve Books.
Hovidin, who is the 6th generation direct descendant of

(15:37):
Catherine the Great. So if you marry a Countess, does
that make you a count? Yeah, maybe, maybe.
I don't know. I think it's how it works.
So pretty interesting and and what an interesting opportunity
like to to you would not expect.Fortunately though, that

(15:57):
marriage ended in divorce, but in 1986 and to wrap up the the
lineage of his lifetime, unfortunately, Holzer died of
natural causes on April 26th, 2009 in New York City.
In addition to his ex-wife, Holzer was survived by daughters
Alexandra Holzer and Nadine Widener and five grandchildren.

(16:19):
And Widener is the same spellingas mine.
Chad so. That doesn't always happen that
way. It doesn't, all right?
It's like we've learned that, you know?
Might be related. We could be.
You know you. Got to hop on Ancestry after
we're done here and find out. So I found everybody was like,
whoa, cool. There's a lot of us though.

(16:40):
So, but I'm assuming it's the the Philadelphia wideners that
we've discussed before, the wider university clan.
So they're relative, perhaps, you see.
All right, so we're not here to talk about that.
We're here to talk about how youmight have gotten involved in
the in the paranormal. And the interesting thing is
he's credited his interest in the paranormal, the stories of

(17:01):
ghosts and fairies told to him by his Uncle Henry as a young
boy in Austria. He then shared those same
stories with his classmates. And soon a note from his
kindergarten teacher appeared athis home saying he was scaring
other children with these stories.
And if he didn't stop, he would not be able to come back.

(17:21):
Kindergarten, Sir, Kindergarten.That's pretty young Holzer's
real interest in the paranormal Cayman as teenagers.
He credited the book Occultism in this Modern Age by Doctor TK
Osterich as being a key catalyst.
In the book, Doctor Osterich explores his views, presents
case studies on psychic phenomena and study and studies

(17:44):
with scientific methods. The possibility of such a
reality or surrality as it may be.
So it got the the wheels spinning and you know, going
back to some of the things that he has studied that kind of fits
into the direction and then certainly drove him toward para
parapsychology. OK.

(18:05):
So Holzer was an innovator and he a couple things that he
brought forward to the field in his nearly 50 years of, of
paranormal investigations. And, and one of the things I
think is most interesting is that every time he went out to
the field, he had a tape recorder every investigation,

(18:27):
everywhere he went. And he only used a Polaroid
camera. The point of that is he claims
that he had no trust in equipment that measured
electromagnetic energy or temperature because they were
fallible. Think about that.
He also claimed that a ghost hunt, as he'd like to call them,

(18:49):
was nothing without a good medium and utilize one in each
and every investigation as well.He felt this was key as ghosts
rarely materialized to make contact, but a medium can
communicate with the spirit, making them the perfect
intermediary between the two worlds.
And I've said this so many times, but no one's going to
walk out of the law and introduce themselves, right?

(19:11):
But they may well be with us. He would not advise the medium
of the location or history before arriving at it.
He worked most often with MissesEthel Johnson Myers, as she was
his first choice to investigate with, but he also worked with
Nancy Hendricks, Marina Brian Augustini, Clara Howard, Dorothy

(19:32):
Jackson, and Betty Ritter, amongothers, and he was always
looking for more mediums to workwith.
He did research on the location before the investigation and on
the evidence collected after it.So he would not be happy with
just getting results. He would go follow up with that
information and see what else hecould find.

(19:52):
He was commonly able to use historic and civil records to
validate the information he had collected.
So something would be presented and in the investigation and he
would go back and check records to and likely it would be found
to be true. He provided a written copy of
the his investigations to the New York to the New York City
Police Department after each one.

(20:14):
Oh, OK. And sometimes there were things
that were discovered that were crimes, right?
Literally. So, you know, someone had died
and then they found out how. So it's quite interesting.
Now, whether they used it or not, it's probably another
story, but I think it's quite interesting.
He would interview the owners ofa location being investigated

(20:35):
and advise them of the outcome of it afterwards.
Sound familiar? OK.
He was a regular guest on local and national television programs
and was a regular contributor tothe program In Search of
starring Leonard Nimoy. Remember that one?
Yeah. Oh yeah.
This exposure brought more people to the field and helped

(20:56):
bring the a legitimacy to the paranormal that it had not had
before. So, Chad, does any of that stuff
sound familiar to you? Yeah, just a little bit.
Just just like all of it, right?Yeah, It's still how we do
stuff. And this was back in the 1960s,
seventies, etcetera, you know, long before, while in the 60s,
long before we were born in the 70s while we were just toddlers.

(21:17):
So, you know, I, I think it's fascinating that, that this was
a pacesetter for all of us in the, in the kind of the standard
playbook of how to do an investigation.
So Speaking of investigations, I'd like to read you a couple
quick excerpts from the Ghost Hunter from 1963.

(21:37):
So these were investigations that were in the late 50s, early
60s that were documented by the book.
In his book, the 1st is called the Riverside Ghost.
Please help me find out what this is all about, pleaded the
stranger on the telephone. I'm being attacked by a ghost.
The caller turned out to be a young jeweler, Edward Carlanian
of Paris, now living in an old apartment building on Riverside

(21:59):
Drive in New York City. For the past two years, he had
lived there with his mother. Occasionally he heard footsteps
when no one would have walked. 5or 6 times he would wake up in
the middle of the night to find several strangers in his room.
They seemed to him people in conversation and disappeared as
he challenged them on fully awakening.
In one case, he saw a man comingtoward him and he threw a pillow

(22:21):
at the invader. To his horror, the pillow did
not go through the ghostly form,but slid off of it and fell to
the floor as the spook vanished.The man obviously wanted to
attack him. There was murder in his eyes and
Mr. Cullinarian was frightened by it all.
Although his mother could see nothing, he was able to describe

(22:42):
the intruder as a man wearing a white uniform like a cook, with
a hat like a cook, and that his face was mean and cruel.
On March 9th I organized a seance at the apartment and with
a teacher at Adelphi College, Mr. Der Cassian, and three young
ladies who were also present. Missus Ethel Myers was the
medium, although she knew nothing of the case.

(23:04):
Missus Meyers immediately described a man and woman
arguing in the apartment and said that there were structural
changes, which Mr. Carolinian confirmed.
Someone is being strangled, The man goes away.
Now a woman falls and her head is crushed.
They want to hide something fromthe family.
Missus Meyer then stated that someone had gone through a
twelve floor window after being strangled and that year was

(23:27):
about 1910. In trance, the discarnate victim
Lizzie took over her voice and cried pitifully for help.
Albert, Misses Meyers control, added that this was a maid who
had been killed by a hired man on the wife's orders.
Apparently, the girl had had an affair with a husband named
Henry. The murderer was a laborer

(23:47):
working in a butcher shop by thename of Maggio.
The family's name was Brady or OBrady.
The wife was Anne. After the seance, I investigated
these data and found to my amazement that in 1812, City
Directory listed an A Maggio Poultry and both an Anne Brady
and Anne O'Grady. The first name was listed as
living only one block away from the house.

(24:09):
Oh yes, Mr. Carlinian found out that a young girl accused of
stealing had killed herself by jumping from that very room.
Wow. Yeah, the next and each of these
have a title, which is I think fascinating too.
Instead of just being a log of things, they're they're

(24:29):
basically stories. The next is called The Haunted
Chair. Bernard Simon was a young writer
with great interest in the occult and very definitely a
budding trance medium. He had done highly of evidential
transmit work in strange in a strange language that turned out
on later investigation to be authentic medieval Inca speech
of Peru. And he has had a number of

(24:51):
astral projections as well as clairvoyant dreams.
His wife Joan, who was known professionally on the stage
under the name of Joan Lowe and is a niece of screen luminary
Joan Crawford, whom she greatly resembles, also has psychic
talents in addition to her artistic ones.
Over the past two years we have shared a number of seance

(25:11):
experiences. A few weeks ago the Simons moved
into a brand new building on West 12th St.
Shortly after her arrival, Bernard found himself drawn to
to a certain neighborhood antique shop where he saw a
particularly peculiar, I'm sorryshaped wooden chair.
He immediately felt he must buy this chair, which was said to

(25:32):
have been a Mexican Indian workmanship.
He bought the chair, a throne like seat with a round back, arm
pieces and a strange base of cross staves to his newly
furnished apartment and thought no more of the particular
particular force that made him acquire the unusual chair.
A few days later Bernard awoke Awokes rather suddenly in the

(25:53):
middle of the night from a deep sleep.
There was enough light in the small apartment to distinguish
solid objects from each other. His eyes were drawn to the
chair. In it sat an extremely tall man.
His back was turned to the observer, but it was clear to
Bernard that the man was unusually tall.
Before he could get up and challenge the intruder he had
vanished into thin air. Both Bernard and Joan Simon

(26:15):
continually felt a presence and told me about their strange
guest. I promised to arrange for a
seance soon and invited Ethel Johnson Myers to come with me,
without, however, telling her any of the details of the case.
On the morning of November 12th I got an urgent telephone call
from Joan. Something startling had just
happened before her very eyes. Her husband laughingly and

(26:37):
tongue in cheek cheek remarked that he didn't believe in ghosts
and there was nothing there, nothing to their visitor.
With that, he got up and went tothe kitchen, leaving Joan in the
room. There was a small but fairly
heavy metal figurine, a pagoda placed in the middle of a small
table near one of the walls. As Joan looked on, the figurine
flew off the table and on to thefloor with such violence that it

(27:01):
broke in. 2-3 days later the seance took place.
Missus Myers took the chair and within a moment was in a deep
trance. Suddenly she sat bolt upright
and any words came out of her mouth, words that Bernard
immediately recognized as the Quickea language, a dialect
spoken in ancient Peru. Having learned a few words in

(27:22):
prayer formulas himself, he managed to quiet the ghost.
It appeared that the man was Haska, and he was recognized.
He recognized Bernard as his son, apparently through
reincarnation. He had been instrumental in
getting Bernard to buy the chairand then was anxious to make
himself known. This having now been
accomplished, the follow the followed A and followed a joyful

(27:45):
embrace. Then the Indian was gone.
The following day all knocks andother strange noises that had
accompanied the feelings of thispresence prior to the seance
were gone. The chair no longer moved and
squeaked. All has been quiet in the
Simonses since. 2 examples of case and and those are short

(28:06):
ones. Most are very, very long, very
very detailed. Many are repetitive as far as
the case itself, there are many times when they've gone back to
the same location and held multiple seances and
investigations, largely with thehome owner or the, you know, the
the responsible party for the place and largely with Misses

(28:28):
Johnson, Misses Myers, I'm sorry, but in a few other cases,
others as well and clearly very,very well documented.
You know that the tape and and this is tape recorder days.
This is not digital stuff. So I can imagine the box of
tapes that had to go along. If you're old enough to remember
that, you know, that wasn't easy.
It's kind of kind of like VHS tapes and you know, watching

(28:49):
movies, bulky, clumsy, hard to use This really, really
interesting though. So 2 examples, 1/3 though, and
the one we probably know most, we all should know about at
least. And, and not really realizing
that this was something that Hans Holzer had investigated is
the Amityville house. You've heard of this, the

(29:11):
Amityville harbor perhaps. OK, so when George and Kathleen
Lutz began to talk about the supernatural experiences
happening at their house in Amityville, NY, the public grew
interested and so did Hans. In 1977, he took Ethel Myers, a
spiritual medium, to investigate.
After viewing the house, Myers claimed an angry Native American

(29:31):
chief had possessed Ronald Defeo, the man who had occupied
the house before the Lutzes and had murdered his family.
The house in Amityville and its history fascinated Hans.
He spent a great deal of his time walking around the property
and talking to the Lutzes about their experiences, so much so
that he wrote three books on thesubject, Murder in Amityville,

(29:52):
The Secret of Amityville, and The Amityville Curse, and gave
interviews devoted to it on TV and to film crews.
Murder in Amityville and The Amityville Curse became the
basis for the first two sequels of The Amityville Horror film.
OK, so. Access is a key thing here,

(30:15):
right? And all of these cases and all
of all of his work were people who were willing to let him come
to their location and investigate.
And, you know, you know how hardthat is, Chad.
I mean, we're investigators, we go out to the field.
We have, we have done private investigations for families and
people, you know, of their personal property as much as
we've done the public stuff thateverybody can do with a ticket,

(30:37):
you know, and, and there is a great deal of trust that comes
to letting us in their homes, you know, and I like to think
we've earned it, you know, through the, through our, our
track record. And, you know, obviously we
don't share personal informationabout things we do that are not
public events. That's a big part of it.
You know, one of the things thatthis amazes me is like how many

(31:00):
times he has been in people's homes, you know, through
decades, You know, these are nothe, he's not gone off to, you
know, some vacant prison somewhere, you know, or some,
some, you know, ran, ran down mental hospital.
Like, you know, a lot of us do, you know, because that's the
public thing that we can, we canget to.
It's a ticketed event, You know,it's got a window of time.

(31:22):
Someone accept the responsibility of it, you know,
liability. This is this is liability
bringing him in and and many others he brings along.
So I find it really fascinating.And and I think it's quite a
quite a testament to how he cared for the work, you know,
that he was, he was trusted. So.

(31:42):
So Speaking of his work, I wouldbe remiss if I did not pause
here to talk about the Travel Channel show the whole 0 files.
Have you had a chance to catch any of this?
Show. I've watched a couple episodes,
yeah. OK, OK, me too.
A lot of them actually. But the the series is based on
case files, photographs and autorecordings from Holzer's
investigation. So a trove of his information

(32:04):
was was found, reviewed through,you know, and gone through, I
should say. And then, you know, a program
was created. The team that was created from
this primarily consists of a paranormal investigator Dave
Schrader, psychic medium Cindy Casa, and equipment technician
Shane Pittman. Holzer's daughter, Alexander

(32:25):
Alexandra, sorry, also worked with the team, as did our friend
April Bousette. So she appeared in at least one
episode. So, and a good a good one at
that, the team reopened many of Holzer's original cases and used
his material to investigate known active locations to either
replicate his experiences and potentially capture new

(32:46):
information about the location and its paranormal activities.
Since that time. Interestingly, Chad, in most
cases, Holzer's original work was validated by the use of our
current technology, techniques and tactics, which many are the
same, right? But technology is the key.
Technology came into play in so many of these opportunities.

(33:07):
And again, his his disdain for it is interesting because we're
using it now. And I think you probably
wouldn't wouldn't be so disdainful if you knew what we
had today versus what he was working with back then.
So a few fun facts. He credited his long life as he

(33:27):
died in at 89 to becoming a vegetarian at age 40 and vegan
shortly after. He claimed to have never taken
the prescription medication, norhad any injections.
Never had a flu shot, anything like that.
Amazing. He was an avid swing dancer,
even into his 80s. He disliked the use of equipment

(33:49):
when investigating, opting for just tape recorder and digital
recorder as it advanced and usedat a camera.
And usually it was a Polaroid. And I, I assume it's because of
being able to get instant imagesversus to having to have film
developed as it would have been back then.
You know, you had to get down tothe the photo, the photo store
and or have a dark room in your home, you know, so Polaroid

(34:12):
cameras, instant gratification, right?
Couple minutes, shake it off, take it like a Polaroid outcast
said. So I think it's fascinating.
You alluded to this earlier, DanAykroyd, you know, traditional
classic actor and comedian. He was also a writer and star of
the 1984 film Ghostbusters. Says Holzer was his inspiration

(34:33):
for the film, he told the Daily Mail in 2013.
I became obsessed with Hans Holzer, the greatest ghost
hunter ever, and that's when theidea for my film Ghostbusters
was born. He also goes on to say that he
had a deep fascination with law enforcement as well.
So Ghostbusters are kind of a cross between policing right
spirits and then also paranormal.

(34:55):
So what an interesting merge there.
So quotables and notables Some things that were said about
Doctor Holzer. In all my years of ghost
hunting, I have never been afraid, he told Leonard Nimoy on
his television series In Search of which again he was a
consultant. After all, a ghost is only a
fellow human being in trouble. He also said I wasn't born a

(35:20):
ghost hunter. I grew up to be 1 from a very
early upbringing, though at the age of 3 in my native Vietnam,
my kindergarten teacher threatened me with expulsion
from class for telling ghost stories to my wide eyed
classmates. I was hot on the subject even
then, and in an interview with Ghost Village and back in 2005,

(35:41):
Holzer was asked how he would like to be remembered, and he
replied as a man who told the truth.
I won't have a tombstone. Cemeteries are real estate
wastes and I don't believe in funerals of any kind.
The sooner you burn the body, the better.
It's just a shell. Mankind has a lot to learn.
Find that interesting. He was the king of all

(36:03):
paranormal media, says Dave Schrader, lead investigator for
Travel Channel's unscripted series The Holes or Files.
He was like the Howard Stern of his time and was on TV, wrote
for movies and wrote books. He became the first multimedia
spokesperson for the paranormal,says Jeff Bellinger, author of
more than a dozen books on the paranormal.
He had the personality for it, he had the storytelling ability,

(36:26):
and he was putting himself out there at a time when no one else
was. He was one of a very few here in
the state to have been able to publish most of his findings
into digestible books, says daughter Alexandra Holzer.
He could also write fiction, poetry, sheet music, and
compose. He wrote, produced, and directed
some of his own projects, and even recorded 2 songs on a 45

(36:48):
record entitled Ghost Hunter, ofcourse.
So to conclude, there are a few things about Holzer's work that
I find interesting and I tend toagree with.
One is that he disliked the termsupernatural because it's
suggested phenomena was outside of scientific definition.

(37:09):
Rather than using the term belief, which he called
uncritical acceptance of something you can't prove, he
said instead that he focused on evidence.
He took a scientific and scholarly approach to how to how
to work and present his findings.
Given his disdain for technologyof his time, I can't help but

(37:29):
wonder how he would feel about the current technology of our
day. And he was a storyteller at
heart, and he used this skill toconvey the humanity of the
spirits he was looking to connect with and provide them
with the dignity that they deserved.
I think we can all relate to that in the field.
Before we discuss, let me cite some sources.

(37:52):
So there's several. The Witch's almanac.com,
newyorktimes.com, thriftbooks.com, All that's
interesting.com, paranormalpopculture.com,
the-line-up.com, and Ghost Hunter by Hans Holzer.
So Chad, yes, me. What you got?

(38:16):
What's on your mind with this? Is it paranormal or not?
Well, no, I guess that's not right.
We can't really go there with this one, can we?
Actually, it's it's, it's very much so.
Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah.
But did not is it? But I mean, I mean, he he was an
innovator. Obviously he was way ahead of

(38:38):
his time with a lot of this stuff.
Now we know, we know that through some of the, the digital
or the the stuff that Ron and Lourdes have talked about, this
was paralleling some of those things with the radio technology
using radio to to listen. But he didn't want to go that

(39:00):
route. So yeah, I think it's very
interesting. We like you, like you alluded to
earlier, we are using many of these methods one way or the
other today. It's research, find out about
the history. You, you, you know, you, you
learn all about it. It's not just what happens in
that short time that you're there, but you, you have to

(39:22):
build on that and work through it.
And I know you talked about using the Polaroid camera.
There's some people today who still swear by Polaroid cameras
for paranormal investigating. Sure that there's just, it's
something completely different than a digital format.

(39:44):
It's one of those things that I'd like I'd like to look into,
but finding a decent Polaroid camera anymore is is difficult.
The world's changed, right? You know, the interesting thing
is that you know, that camera doesn't carry IR, you know, as
most will. So you know, you're, you're
really, you're relying on a flash which creates a different
light source and and there's no,there's just a different

(40:08):
visualization then of that image.
So it's I, I do think it's a curious thing, and perhaps
that's something it's going to have to find its way into one of
our tool boxes at some point. I agreed, You know, and, you
know, Polaroids are, Polaroids are still around.
Don't be wrong. Oh, yeah, yeah, they're still
out there. And they, you know, they had a
comeback for a while there a fewyears ago with kids and all like

(40:28):
kid versions of. Yeah, and there were those
little like 2 by 2. Yep, these little tiny that,
that old people can't see very well, you know, but in, in the,
in the traditional sense, they're still around.
So, and, and you know that that is, that is technology, you
know, whether you wanted to admit it or not.

(40:48):
And so is a tape recorder, you know, so he wasn't totally
without. But the thing that I find most
interesting is the, the prevailing use of mediumship.
And we've talked about this before and I, I'll say what I
said then. You know, I am, I am not a

(41:08):
sensitive individual. That does not mean I'm
insensitive. I'm just unsensitive right now.
You know, that's, that's a good joke, I guess.
But you know, I, I don't have the gift of, of sensitivity that
I know you do and many of othersdo.
And I take each and every personquite seriously, you know, if
they're experiencing something in an investigation, I rely on

(41:31):
it to some degree because I lackit.
And you know, it's the end of the Yang.
You know, Holzer does have, he claimed to have some sensitive
sensitivity, but nowhere near enough to be something he would
bring forward and use as evidence or credibility to
evidence. He believed firmly, very firmly
that, you know, you would, you would get so much further with a

(41:53):
medium. And, you know, the, the whole
concept of every, every single case study, the medium he was
working with had had them, you know, they were taken over by a
spirit at that site. So, you know, it, it's, it
strikes me there. And, and it is something that I
find really, really interesting.I like to explore more

(42:14):
personally, you know, how we, how we work in the field.
You know, I think we have becomea little reliant on technologies
and not in communication. That's a different thing.
The direct communication stuff. And, and, and this goes to, you
know, what, what Ryan and Lourdes are up to and Tony and
Cherie Rathman are up to, you know, with, with having the

(42:37):
radio connection, that the digital voice connection, you
know that that's the same idea. It's just a different, slightly
different meet. You know, it's not a mediumship
there, but it is a direct connect and the the amazing work
that's been done so far, you know, through static comp and
the digital seance experience, both sides of that are truly

(42:58):
fascinating to me. But it all started there with
Holzer back in 19. You know, this was in the late
50s when he was starting his work and into the 60s, you know,
to get his first book out. I do want to note this and I
think this is amazing 140 books on the paranormal.
You saw a couple of you saw like18 in the slides, you know, so

(43:20):
you know like a whole nother gazillion more.
Yeah, I didn't realize it was that many that he had written.
Yeah, let's let's say that he had a 50 year career then late
50s to 2000s. That would be 3 1/2 books a year
on average that he wrote. Jen, have you read 3 1/2 books

(43:41):
in a year? Not not lately.
I used to read a lot of books but but no.
I'm kidding. I'm but you know, but I know
people who don't read 3 1/2 books a three books a year, even
a half, maybe a half a book. You know, you start, you don't
finish that is that. But to write that much I mean to
to write and to edit and to like.
And then work other projects like you're out in the fields

(44:04):
working, you're you're doing themedium work media, not medium
media work that he was doing. I mean, that is that is volume
that is just epic. When I thought about that, I was
thinking about this earlier thisafternoon and and it what came
to my mind is the musical Hamilton.
OK, the song where you're writing like you're running out

(44:25):
of time, that, that part of it, you know, like Hamilton was a
fervent author of things. He wrote everything down.
It's all documented and all the letters and all the pieces that
he wrote, you know, and, and that to me is, is Holzer and,
and both were dedicated, right? They were committed to their
field. They knew what they were

(44:45):
supposed to do. They were in and going and
nothing stopped them. And, and that drive is
impressive. I think it's fascinating, but 3
1/2 books on average a year and that's that's saying it was 50
years. It might have been less, might
have been a little more. So Even so, you know, it's
amazing. So David has a comment here.

(45:05):
One of the first paranormal books he ever read as a kid was
about Amityville and the Defoe murders by Holzer.
Defoe's Yep. Defoe's yeah.
Yeah, and, and there's three of those books alone.
So, you know, that's, that's oneyear's worth of authoring on
average. You know, a lot of time was
spent in these places. And there's, there's a few, you

(45:28):
know, episodes in the book whereit's probably over the course of
a year or more that there were adozen investigations or, or
seances, as he called them, because he had a medium, you
know, going. And, you know, we, you know, as
well as anybody to add the ability to go back to a place
like we have the opportunity to Boobie's Brewery in Mount Joy,
PA as our home base to go back and go back and go back, you

(45:51):
know, as we did before when we were at the Haldeman Mansion as
well as the host team there, youknow, going back and back and
back. You, you have a different
connection. You get a difference, your
relationship with the spirits ofthat location.
You know, and there's nothing wrong with one offs.
You know, we all do them. I'll be doing one this weekend.
You did one last, you know, we'll do another one this
weekend, perhaps maybe with opportunity for more, you know,

(46:14):
with the location, you're the private location.
But you know, you, you just you don't know what you're going to
get when you walk into that situation.
You don't have time to build rapport, you know, and build
trust. And I think it's really what
this is all about is trust. You know this, you know, Helser
was, was a man who could be trusted and, and earned that
trust with what he who whom he work with.

(46:37):
Right. You know, and it didn't hurt
that he he was a firm believer in in wearing something nice to
go to an investigation, you know, and think about the era,
right. You know, like my grandparents
do, you know, who would be his, his age?
You know, where Oh, my grandfather, when he wasn't at
work, you know, was always wearing slacks and A and a, some

(46:58):
kind of a colored shirt. You know, it's just a tire, you
know, but Holder would would be,you know, not dressed to the
nines, not wearing a suit per SE, but he would be in what we
would probably call business casual attire today to all of
his investigations because he felt that was something that was
respectful to the spirits that he and his medium would
encounter. So I think it's fascinating too.

(47:20):
So no, no blue jeans and T-shirts for him?
Is that what you're saying? Yeah, shorts, shorts and flip
flops. He was.
He was not that guy. Yeah, and Dave's saying the
spirits get more comfortable with you and your equipment as
you're there more often. Completely agree.
Completely agree. What should that it's a respect
both ways at that point, so absolutely.

(47:43):
Well, you know, it's it now go back to the patients is, is, is
a keyword to all of this, you know, the patients of being able
to communicate and do it in a, in a manner that's respectful
and, and, you know, and, and dignified because this you're
still dealing with a person, youknow, and it's not a performance
opportunity. It's not, you know, there's no
stage to this, you know, and, and you know, maybe it's summer

(48:04):
doing it that way. I don't know, you know, like
that. But you know, as as a paranormal
investigator, I, I want to have a meaningful contact with, with
whomever may be on the other side of, of that, that, that
place and time that I'm in, you know, whoever is there in the
room, you know, I don't, I don'twant it to be a show.

(48:25):
And you know, that's the hardship of doing public
investigations, right? You know, we talked about all
the time, and I said it earlier in this episode even.
But you know, people expect to see a ghost walk out of the
wall, you know, and, or, you know, all the lights to come on
and off and all this stuff that,you know, that that is such a
Hollywood ization of what it's like being in the, in the
paranormal field. And, you know, it's just not

(48:46):
sometimes, sometimes it's just sitting quietly and listening
and, and having us, you know, a normal conversation and seeing
what happens from it. You know that some of my best
successes are there. And I don't, you know, I don't
know that that's the right way or the wrong way, but that's the
way I feel good about doing it. And, you know, it's and, you
know, if it's not your way, that's great.

(49:07):
I wish. But you know, just just treat
whomever may be with you with the respect and courtesy you
would if someone was physically in the room.
Yeah. So there's a lot of stuff there
and a lot of fun with it. You know, the cool thing is
Alexandra Holzer is still working in the field, you know,

(49:31):
and, and I know that Holzer Files has kind of ended, but you
never know with reboots and you know, stuff.
I mean, it's not like you don't have enough material to go back
to it. And many of those episodes, if
you haven't seen the show, it's available on Max.
If you have Max, all the episodes are there and sometimes
you can find it on the the Travel Channel if you, if you

(49:53):
dig hard enough or they, they reboot a couple everywhere.
You run a couple episodes every once in a while.
But it's really worth digging into it.
And you know, I give credit to, to the team that they created.
They they are good investigators.
They're really good people. You know, they're out there in,
in at paracons and such too, youknow.
And they do, they do the legwork.
They, you know, it's not just, it's not just the show for the

(50:16):
TV. It's like they definitely dig
into it. They pay respect and and I think
that's the most important thing is, you know, this, this is a
lifetime, a lifespan of work that can't just be said it was
this or that. And it's it's such a nuanced
thing. Doctor Holzer was a celebrity as
well as he was an innovator. And as much as he was a person,

(50:41):
like a normal dude, you know, soit it's just so fascinating,
like all of this stuff balled upinto this, this person.
I wish, I wish, I wish I would have had an opportunity to know
him or meet him or talk to him or, you know, it wouldn't have
been over drinks. It would have been over coffee.
I can say that because he took coffee everywhere he went.
But, you know, I'm good with that.

(51:02):
Yeah. So.
Well, you saw earlier we got a quote from our note from our
friend Jenny. Yes, he really likes likes Hans
Holzer and their team uses one of his quotes on their shirts
and his daughter actually gave them permission to do that,
which I think is pretty cool. That was cool.
And and and an offline message or advance of the episode

(51:23):
message. So Jenny, when you see this, I'd
love to see that shirt someday. So send us a picture if you can.
That's super cool. Or if if you're at the Ritz
Saturday, we'll see you there. So, Chad, and that's all I have
and, and it, you know, I, I appreciate the opportunity to
dig into this, you know. And it was well done, Jamie, you

(51:46):
did it. It was a lot.
I'm sure you didn't cover everything.
Because there was a lot, you skipped a lot of stuff.
I have books on order though, soit's been coming in this week.
Yeah, I I'm not, I don't think I'm going to read all 140 or so,
but I'm certainly more interested in getting into more
of this stuff. It sounds like a challenge,
Jamie. It doesn't sound like a
challenge. Yeah, it's, it's my summer
reading program, right? If I get, if I get a, if I read

(52:09):
every book, do I I get a stamp for each one and I get a pizza?
Oh, I see. I was going to go there.
You remember the? Book.
Yeah. Pizzas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not everybody does, but you
know, yeah. I'm, I'm food motivated.
I'm good for that. Absolutely.
Give me a book and a pizza. Uh huh.
Cheers SO. Cool.
Yeah, I've got a small stack of on my night stand already.

(52:31):
So he's going to, he's unfortunate.
He's going to have to get in line.
But yeah, I'm definitely in for For more information, more
material from from Doctor Holzer.
So. Well, that's cool.
If anybody wants to borrow a ghost hunter, just let me know.
I'm I'm all for sharing, so happy to.
OK. All right.
Well, nice. All done, Jamie.
Well, thank you. So what's going on now with us

(52:53):
coming up? What do we have coming up?
Well, on the what we have scheduled right now that we're
that we've put out there, Green Children of Wolpet is next week.
You don't know anything about that, do you, Jamie?
No, I do not. I really don't and I'm not going
to dig into it, so I'm going to be enthralled with everyone

(53:14):
else. OK, Grimm's Fairy Tales the week
after that Rendlesham Forest incident, then this is, you
know, first, first time we've got this up on the screen.
New Orleans, America's most haunted city.
You're going to be tackling thatdo.
You know what March 4th is? That would be Mardi Gras,
wouldn't it? Yes, Sir.

(53:36):
So. Anyway, see how we did that?
I I noticed, Yeah. Yeah.
The week after that, I'm going to jump into Leap Castle.
No pun, anything. Some things we feel bad.
It's funny. Yeah.
Some things that we don't have listed here that I'm working on

(53:58):
is we, I, we're, we're connecting with someone who's
got a newer space in the area, well in Pennsylvania called Das
House. We've connected with the team
that runs that. So we're going to try to have
them on in the near future. And Jamie, I know this one might
interest you 'cause you, you know, it's, it's sort of a
personal connection for me. I got a slideshow from my father

(54:25):
of things that have happened at his house that he's documented
over the years, and I'm going tothere.
There's not many visuals for that one, obviously, but he's
got 17 different things listed that I'm going to try to
compile. And it may be more than one,

(54:45):
maybe end up being more than oneepisode, but I'm going to try to
work through that and compile it.
But he's got 17 things that at least documented.
Just channel your inner Steve Dills, it'll take 2 1/2 hours
and we'll be fine. OK.
It's all good. So.
So anyway, I'm sort of looking forward to digging into that
just because it's such a personal thing for me where I

(55:06):
grew up. And yeah, it's it.
Yeah, it's pretty. Interesting.
That's the cool thing. Like when you get to do
something that you've you know, you've been involved in, you
know, and, and obviously it's it's got you here.
So that's really super cool. I'm not sure what Bert means by
this, don't either, but I mean Ithink it's maybe 2 1/2 hours

(55:31):
maybe maybe we'll we'll go with.That maybe that Yeah.
Hey, the the thing here, here this deal, Bert, you get to get
up and go to the bathroom and get a snack or do whatever.
We don't So. So trust me, we don't want to do
2 1/2 hours either. But if it happens, it happens.
Yeah, no, I, I won't do that. I definitely would break that
one up. But so anyway, that's sort of
what I what I've got house anyway, that's so that's what

(55:57):
I'm sort of working on in the background and we've got some
stuff coming up. Tala, we're going to be there.
So we're going to do a preliminary and A and a post on
that. Yeah, it's getting ever closer.
What? Speaking of which, would the The
Tala Post Show or you know, PostInvestigation is scheduled for
our 100th episode? Yeah.

(56:18):
We are at 90. By the way, tonight is 90, Sir.
Tonight is 90. I did look it up.
Good for 90. Yeah, you.
You too. So anyway, what else we got
going on? We we're still booking privates
at Boobie's Brewery. If you're if you're interested
in that, reach out to [e-mail].

(56:45):
So, you know, it's, it's definitely worth it.
Doing as an individual, not as apublic is a whole different
experience. If you have a team of your own
and you don't want to, you know,mingle, if I can like say it as
politely as humanly possible there, but you don't want to
share the space with another, with others.
You know, private investigation is a great opportunity to have
the whole place to yourself and you know, do as you wish.

(57:07):
Yeah, yeah. I see Bert's question here.
Have I ever investigated my dad's house?
Investigated no experienced things there Yes, my father has
strictly forbidden me to investigate.
Not until he's not there anymore.
I think is pretty much how it's like when he's not there, then

(57:30):
I'm more than, you know, he's. I can, I can, I can do things,
but not until he's not living there 'cause he has experienced
enough over the years. He doesn't want to stir things
up and experience anymore. That is that is fair, I believe,
right. That's why you mean this is the
this is the rule of in the field.
You never investigate your own home.

(57:51):
So I totally understand that. But yes, Bert road trip and it's
not far away. So, no, if it went and you know
what, Chad, with all due respect, I, I understand that,
you know, your dad not being there and, and I hope that that
time does not come for a very, very long time still.
Right me, me too. So, but I was there this weekend
when I on my because he lives near close to Gettysburg.

(58:14):
So I was there Friday night and then I went back down Sunday and
they had an issue with their power.
He had an issue with the power. Somebody must have hit a pole or
transfer. And all the sudden I, I thought
things were happening because the power didn't go out.
It cut to about half voltage andwith LED lights and fluorescent

(58:36):
lights, there were fixtures where like one light was on half
and the other one was flashing on and off and like 111 light
bulb was on and other light bulbs were off it like in the
same fixture. It was like, what is going on
here? And then we we realized what it
was. And so, yeah, it made it
interesting, which is the The funny thing about that is when

(59:00):
we were prepping for my mom's memorial service, we had a very
similar experience, except the power hadn't gone out.
Like all the lights. Like we were all like that.
We were all gathered around the kitchen table going through
photos and things like that, andall the sudden the lights just
started flickering. Wow.
And then we all, we all looked at each other, sort of

(59:21):
acknowledged it and it went backto normal and it was just like,
wow. So that's amazing.
Yeah. Again, it's energy that you're
putting into it. Like it, it's the whole thing.
So exactly. So anyway, I don't want to, you
know, give too much away. Sure, sure.
So we've got some public investigations coming up.

(59:44):
February 22nd, March 22nd or Public Investigations tickets
are limited to those. We, you know, we only sell so
many. So if you're interested, get
tickets early because they will go fast.
They are starting to go already.Yeah, February 22nd date is
starting to sell already. So Yep, coming around.
Yep, April 10th is when we will be at Tala Trans Allegheny

(01:00:07):
Lunatic Asylum. Yep, when there was a slight
change in our schedule here on April 26th, it will be a normal
public investigation at Boobies Brewery and the investigation in
May is when we're going to do our first pair unity thing,
which we will have more details about.
I know who the I know who the other team is that we're pairing
up with. So we'll talk about that closer

(01:00:28):
to the date, but it should be a good, good experience.
Stacy and Gary Smith. I, I don't know if you've ever
met him, Jamie, but I, I'm not I've met Stacy.
I'm. Aware of both, I just haven't
had the opportunity to meet him in person.
So, but we'll dig into that a little bit closer and hopefully
we'll be able to get them on fora show before we work together.
So that'd be fun. And then our the ways of finding

(01:00:52):
us. You found us here on Facebook or
YouTube. There's TikTok, there's
Instagram. You can always e-mail us at
[e-mail] can find us on Spotify,
YouTube, Audible, Apple Podcasts.
Jamie, we were up at over 1200 streams, which, you know, for

(01:01:16):
us, I'm pretty happy for that. So there's more than anything.
More than one is pretty impressive for us.
So and. Then you can find all those
links assimilated together at atLink Tree, Paranormal Lens.
If you go to Link Tree and search for Paranormal Lens, you
will find us and we'll be all together there.

(01:01:38):
Absolutely. And we we pop up as paranormal
lens on all of those as first search.
So pretty easy to find us. And you know, if you're if
you're here listening to us now and you know, on this live event
and these are always live. So, you know, you never know
what you're going to get, but you know, you want somebody to
know about us, you know, feel free to share, you know, get,
get, get some more folks from friends and family, all that

(01:01:59):
good stuff involved. You know, we, we are always
happy to, to talk to as many as we can.
You know, we talk all the time, right?
But, you know, if, if there's somebody out there who's
interested, let them know. And you know, let's see where it
goes. I, I, I say this because I had
an off the cuff idle conversation with a Co worker
the other day. And some it slipped that, you

(01:02:19):
know, I do paranormal stuff. And he's like, really.
And he told me of an experience he had in my office with the the
founder of our company who has passed on a few years ago, you
know, being here one day while he was late in the evening as he
was last one out, he he saw him standing clear, clear as day,
you know, a space where he wouldhave been, you know, back in his

(01:02:43):
time. So, you know, and that led him
to watching, you know, starting to watch the podcast.
So I'm really excited by that. You just never know, you know,
you know the opportunities out there for everybody, so.
Yep, I was watching when I was Friday when I was investigating
down in Gettysburg, I was talking to Marianne about

(01:03:03):
somehow we got on the subject ofstuff and I said, oh, I'd do a
podcast with a good friend of mine.
And she goes, oh, what's the podcast?
Because I want to, you know, I want to check it out.
And I, I told her. Yeah, that.
Yeah, I I consider you a good friend, Jamie.
So at least. Made the list, yes.
At least I say that on the show anyway.
So anyway, Marianne's like. Checks in the mail.

(01:03:27):
So Marianne's like, what's the name of the show?
And I told her, and she goes, oh, I listen to you guys.
I think I listened to you and looked it up, and she was
already following us. So.
So yeah. Very cool.
So well, and we thank everybody,you know, like we, we say this
all the time, you know, we, we wouldn't do this without you and
we really wouldn't. We haven't done a long time ago.
And thanks for coming along. Thanks for the engagement here

(01:03:50):
in this, you know, live event, but also through the week, you
know, and, and I say this all the time too, but if there's
anything you want us to cover, let us know.
It's really easy to find us, youknow, the paranormal
[e-mail], you know, e-mail, just shoot us a message,
say hey, you should cover something, whatever it is we've
done public. Gosh, that's not right.

(01:04:10):
We have done listener submissions before.
We will do them again. It's really, it's really easy
when you self produce, you can move your schedule anywhere you
want to. So we're not, we're not
obligated to what you see in these episodes coming up,
although we will do them too, ofcourse.
But for something that's near and dear to you or something
you're aware of that we're not, or something has happened to
you, you know, as your own personal story, we're happy to

(01:04:31):
to bring it in and share it and we can have you come on and talk
about it. Yeah.
Definitely we'd we'd be happy tohave guests on.
We were actually talking about acouple that we were planning on
lining up in the the future here.
So yeah. So it's very, very simple to do,
very easy to do. You can comment in one of the
the episodes this episode for catching us on the streaming
services, You know, just leave anote, leave a review.

(01:04:53):
If it's not something you can leave a message in in the
episode, as far as directly, youknow, Apple doesn't let you do
that per episode, but they do let you leave a review.
We'll see it either way. And anyway, so touch base, but
we're happy to jump into it and see what we can do to to bring
it to light. And yeah, we're all friends
here. Yep, follow like all those fun

(01:05:14):
things so. All good.
So, well, anything else, Jamie? Sir, I'm good.
You know, it's, I can't believe you've gone a little over an
hour here. So, you know, time flies and
we're having fun. And Mount Joy is better when you
stay over. It's more fun when you sleep

(01:05:34):
over. Come on.
You know, come on, these weeks, you're going to get it.
No, I'm not. You know that.
I thought you were going to put a note on your monitor.
I mean, seriously. I was, but I forgot all.
Right, that's pack of posts. It's coming to your house.
Or is it in each one of them is going to say the same thing?
So no matter what, it's like a flip book.

(01:05:58):
So all right. Age, Dang it.
On that note, we should probablyget out of here, let everybody
get on with her Tuesday night orwhatever time they're.
Listening whatever day it is when you get there.
Yep, absolutely. So, everybody, we thank you.
We hope to see you next week andhave a great week.
Yeah, go, birds. All right.

(01:06:18):
Good night.