June 4, 2025 • 55 mins
🌺 Paranormal Lens Podcast – Season 2, Episode 44: The Menehune of Hawaii 🌺
In this enchanting episode of Paranormal Lens, host Chad Thomas takes us to the lush islands of Hawaii to explore the legends of the Menehune—a mysterious race of small people said to dwell deep in the forests and hidden valleys.
Are they ancient builders, mischief-makers, or guardians of sacred places? Chad unpacks the rich folklore, cultural significance, and curious sightings that keep the legend of the Menehune alive today. From ancient structures to eerie encounters, this is one story steeped in mystery and myth.
Jamie Widener joins the conversation, bringing questions, insight, and a dose of curiosity as the two dive into one of Hawaii’s most captivating supernatural legends.
🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!
Get ready for a magical journey through Hawaiian folklore—just don’t wander too far into the forest… 🌿👣
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:34):
The. Good evening and welcome to the
Paranormal Luns Podcast hosted by Jotnik's Paranormal.
My name's Chad Thomas, and that guy over there somewhere there
is Jamie Widener. How you doing, Jamie?
(00:55):
Chad, I'm wonderful. It is Tuesday already.
Like it's so great. The week's the week just flies
by. All the other stuff we did
doesn't matter anymore. Back to the program.
What's going on with you? Well, it is a It's a busy
emotional week. It's a.
That's a nice way to say that yes, it's it is.
(01:16):
There's, there's lots going on with, with the senior in the
family and the high school senior, not the senior senior,
but we've got some. Maybe there too, who knows,
right? So yeah, Zoe graduates from high
school tomorrow, so we are superexcited about that, I think.
Well, we all are. I'm not sure about her.
(01:40):
Actually, then we we're having some issues with Facebook, so
I'm not sure what is going on there.
So we may not be streaming to Facebook.
We'll see what happens. But anyway, so yeah, we've got,
we've got that going on. So today was the senior walk at
(02:02):
the elementary school, which Steph sent some pictures to us
and that was really nice. Just yeah, lots, lots going on
this week did get some sad news from my camp family.
They're one of the one of the people that we all look up to is
in palliative care right now andthat's that's sort of hard to
hard to go through, but it's part of life.
(02:24):
And you know, he's a well respected person and we will
miss him when he's not here, butwe have fond memories of him.
But anyway, moving on. What about you?
Let's. Well, about the same it's it's
it's saying it's an emotional week is a really, really good
point. You know, all these years of
getting here to here, you know, and you know, you think about
(02:47):
it, you're remiss a little bit, you know, back to your time of
doing this too. And you know, it's like, man,
then I get sad because like how many years have gone by since
then? So a lot, a lot is the answer.
But you know, it is so cool and so exciting at the same time,
you know, and the because the future is still bright and then
(03:07):
all in front, you know, and, and, and not that it's not for
us anymore, but you know, that moment is just it's, it's one of
those moments, you know, and youknow, and there's hopefully
many, many more to come, but I know there will be.
But, you know, right now this islike the biggest accomplishment,
you know, So it's just so exciting.
And you know it's going to be over in a blink tomorrow, so.
(03:29):
Well, it to disappoint you, but it's going to.
Take hours, right, 66000 kids that are running in this school,
whatever, but jeez, you got to talk and you know, you know, you
take a pillow, but you know the whole experience is over soon.
You know the rap of it, so it's kind of cool.
Yeah. Yeah, Other than that, you know,
it's just we've been getting ready for this all weekend.
(03:51):
So it's, you know, you can find the right outfit.
We had to do this. We had to do that.
So you know, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's wrap.
It's it's let's get there tomorrow.
Yeah. So I will literally be dropping
her off too. So it's like.
Yeah, I got, I got to drop her off the last full day of school,
right. And you get to drop her off the
last day of school. So the last real day of school.
(04:12):
Yeah, so official day, whatever you call it.
So yeah, that's. The cool thing too, like when
you're a senior, you get to likebag out a couple days at the
end. That's so fun.
You know so. They went to Hershey Park on
Monday, They had a picnic today,you know, like, Yep.
Yep, it's, it's a, it's a great,it's a great time for them to be
alive and. Like a retirement party, right?
(04:32):
You know, kind of. Yeah, exactly so.
Like, I'm never going to retire,but you know, I hear they're
fun. So anyway, I'm still I'm trying
to figure out what this issue with Facebook is.
It's good to see Todd and Carmela are with us.
Hi, guys. Good evening.
So thanks for the congratulations for Zoe.
We appreciate it. So I'm going to see if I can, I
(04:56):
don't know if I can add this back now or not, but we'll see,
see what happens, if any. Todd and Cornell, if you could
jump on the Facebook page and share, tell everybody to jump on
YouTube, that'd be great. We'd appreciate that.
Around to that right? Anyway, let's let's jump to what
we were talking about for this week, Jamie.
(05:18):
So we're going to talk about theHawaiian Islands a little bit.
So Jamie, have you brushed up onyour history of the Hawaiian
Islands? Do you know all about them?
Like what? You know what we're talking
about? I had all these worked out and
now I'm going to have a hard time with them.
Kuwi Island. Are you familiar with that?
(05:39):
The the history, the folklore? You know, I, I had, I had some
of this back in the day, you know, as far as the, the time of
the explorers. And I don't want to say the
colonizers is more accurate, I guess coming and landing in the
islands and and who doesn't likea nice Hawaiian punch?
So about after about the end of that for me.
(06:01):
So I'm, I'm I'm going to trust everything you tell me is true.
OK, well, we'll have a reason todoubt you.
First of all, let me say that. All right, well, I'm trying to
get my screen set up here so I can get everything right.
So from what you said, I'm guessing you haven't heard of
Kiki Ola, the Alacoco Fish Pond and the Ulupo Hai Yi Au right?
(06:29):
No. No.
What about the Necker Island structures of the Paoku Menahune
breakwater at Kuhula Lu Bay? No.
No same. No, OK, well.
Apparently I'm I'm uninformed. Well, I can say that until I was
(06:51):
researching tonight's topics, I haven't heard of them either.
So I'm a little disappointed that I didn't know anything
about these places because I visited.
I can't. I can't believe I'm struggling
with this word quali in 2021 andwould have enjoyed learning more
about these in person. Sure.
(07:12):
So what do all these places havein common other than being a
tongue twister for non-native Hawaiian speakers?
Legend has it that these places were all built by the Menahune.
Now before we dig into the Menahune, which are a mythical
people who inhabit the island, let's look at these structures.
The Kiki Alu Alu I I this is going to be a lot of fun and I
(07:38):
apologize to anybody from Hawaiiwho listens to this.
I am not trying to butcher your language.
The the Kiki Alu and the Lika ElCoco fish pond are located on
the island of Kauai, and Kahula Bay is on the island of Hawaii.
A Lupo Heyu is on Oha, and the Necker Island structures are in
(08:00):
a small uninhabited island in the northwest part of the island
chain. So what's what we got going
there? Kikiola is also known as the
Menahune Ditch, so much easier to pronounce.
It's a historic irrigation ditchlocated near Waiamea.
(08:20):
Unfortunately, if you visit the site today, not much remains to
be seen of the structure. But in 1793, when British
explorer Captain George Vancouver visited the aqueduct,
it was something to behold. It stood 24 feet high and the
top of it was used as a walkway.There are 120 neatly cut and
(08:45):
smoothed basalt stones that remain.
Researchers speculate that the structure went on for several
mile miles. In 1924, during modernization, a
road was built that covers almost the entire structure.
What puzzles archaeologists is that the only that this is the
only example of this type of engineering in the Hawaiian
(09:05):
Islands. They also believe that this
structure predates the 14th century Tahitian migration to
Hawaii. While irrigation canals are
common, the construction of thisunique is this one is unique.
Irrigation canals were often built to move water from streams
and waterfalls and mountains to ponds in the drier flatlands
(09:26):
where terror crops were planted.To prevent erosion, the canals
would be lined with lava rocks that were were available close
to the canal site. When I visited visited Kauai, we
took a tubing trip down the handdug irrigation canal.
It was lined with stone and actually had been tunneled
(09:46):
through three large lava structures, and it was amazing,
but it was nowhere near what theMenahune ditch is believed to
be. Here's an excerpt from a story
in the Hawaii magazine Legends of Kiki Ola.
Describe how Ola, the son of Chief Ku Allah NI Nu IPA UU
(10:07):
Kukumo, who ordered the Menahuneto build the wall in one night.
A large group of Menahune men and women obtained the stones
from the quarry 7 miles away andsomehow brought them to the
location. After its completion, Ola paid
the Menahune per person, which is what they had requested.
(10:31):
Sounds like cheap labor to me. Now you may ask how they moved
that many stones from the quarryto the build site.
Some believe that there were enough people that they lined up
and passed the stones fire brigade style.
No matter how they did it, it seems to me like it was an
amazing feat of engineering. In 1928, a plaque was erected to
(10:52):
designate the site as a historical landmark of the
Territory of Hawaii. On November 16th, 1984, it was
added to the National Register of Historic Places.
So that was pretty amazing. You know, big, big stone
structure made out of basalt, which is, you know, a fairly
hard stone by a primitive peoplewho would not have had many
(11:16):
tools. So let's look at the next one.
The next structure we're going to talk about is the Alicoco or
Manahune fish pot. It is believed to be between 600
to 1000 years old. This is this pond is known as a
Loku Kuapa. It is a traditional Hawaiian
(11:37):
aquaculture technique. The goal of these ponds was to
create a controlled environment for raising and harvesting fish.
This typically would have been awa, mullet and moo milk fish.
The Menahuni Pond was constructed a dam part of the
Huliya River. The construction of this dam
consisted of building a 900 footlava Rockwall on a bend in the
(11:59):
river. This converted 6 acres of land
to a pond. The ancient engineering was so
carefully designed that it allowed water to flow in and out
with the tides but kept the fishfrom escaping.
This allowed the capturing of the fish to feed the alley or
the Hawaiian royalty and the local community.
(12:22):
On the Hawaii Guide website I found this story about how the
pond was commissioned and constructed.
Legend states that the walls of the pond were built in one night
by a group of manahune who were commissioned by the King of the
Polynesians to build the pond. The manahune lined up on the
hillside and formed a human chain, passing the stones from
one down the hillside until theywere in place, or passing the
(12:46):
stones 1 by 1 down the hillside until they were in place.
Their fingers and hands were so worn from the work that they
were dripping with blood. This is the literal translation
of Alococo Alley meaning dripping and Coco means blood.
Another legend states that the Menahune king agreed to build
upon under the condition that noone else observed the work.
(13:08):
The Polynesian king agreed and work commenced on a cloudy full
moon night. Halfway through the night, the
clouds parted to reveal the fullmoon, which shone brightly on
the mountains on the other side of the riverbank.
High up on the mountaintop, the son and daughter of the
Polynesian king had hidden themselves on the Ridge.
The Menahuni king was infuriatedthat his people were being spied
(13:30):
on while doing their work and turned the two onlookers into
stone where they are still visible today as 2 rock
pinnacles sticking up on the ridgeline.
The Menahuni king ordered his men to stop work immediately,
which is meant to explain the why.
There is one section of wall that was built using a different
type of rock. Other sources say that like the
(13:53):
Menahuni Ditch, the stone required to build the structure
came from several miles away andwas passed hand by hand,
possibly for 25 miles. This location was added to the
National Register of Historic Places in 1973 and was
designated designated as the Julia National Wildlife Refuge
in the same year. You can kayak down the river and
(14:16):
see the wall, but the entrance to the pond and its refuge is
closed to the public. There are some very beautiful
views that make it take amazing photos.
All right, there is another fishpond on the island of Maui
called the Kalepapo Fish Pond. This one.
(14:39):
The wall for this pond is actually 11 thousand 11173 feet
long and encloses 3 acres of ocean.
The depth average is 3 to 5 feetand works in the same way the
Riverside pond does. Archaeological dating of pollen
taken from the core samples showthat this particular pond was
built after 18 after 1488 and also is believed to be the work
(15:02):
of the Menahune. The next structure we're going
to talk about is the Alupa AlupoHe I, which I stated earlier, is
on the island of Oahu, now knownas the Ilupa High State
Historical site. It overlooks the Kawa Anu marsh
(15:27):
and is a sacred within an ancient Hawaiian temple.
The site showcases the intersection of spirituality and
agriculture. The Ulupo is a significant
spiritual site that served as a ceremonial Center for Native
Hawaiians dedicated to the God Cain.
It also played a pivotal role inreligious ceremonies and
(15:50):
offerings aimed at ensuring agriculture, prosperity and
community well-being. Beyond its spiritual role, it
holds agriculture importance. It was strategically positioned
to overlook Kawa E Nu March, which was a central point for
managing and overseeing the cultivations of the tarot
fields, which was a staple crop in Hawaiian culture.
(16:14):
The construction reflects the meticulous craftsmanship of the
early Hawaiians. The lava rocks were carefully
stacked without mortar and it stands as a testament to the
engineering skills and the cultural significance attributed
to these sacred structures. Legend also associates that this
site was built by the Menahune, which gives you an idea how old
the site may be. The massiveness in the quantity
(16:37):
of the rock carried many miles hints at its cultural
importance. Traditional Records Tradition
records Kulu kulaloa more than 10 miles away as one of the
sources of these stones. Ulupo Hinaya measures 140 by
180, with walls up to 30 feet inheight.
(17:00):
Several Oahu Oahu chiefs lived at Kailu and probably
participated in ceremonies at Lupo, including Kakuhi Elwa in
the 1400s and Cooley in this late 1600s.
Cooley fought many battles, and he may have rededicated the Lupo
(17:22):
as a as a ceremonial place. In 1962, a bronze plaque was
installed by the Commission of Historical Sites, and the site
is now on the National and Hawaii Register of Historical
Places. All right, and somehow I got
ahead. The final structure we're going
(17:46):
to talk about is the Neckar Island structures.
The small barren island goes by the local name.
I'm going to say this once I think Mokuma na Mana, and it's
made of basalt and is only 46 acres.
But within that acreage are 55 cultural places that have been
found. 33 of those are religiousstructures and there are 17
(18:09):
shelter caves. Two sites have unknown
functions. The island has very little soil,
so it was not suitable for agricultural.
So why do we have such a concentration of cultural
artifacts here? It is believed that it was a
sacred place and used primarily for worship, or that the
manihune were forced to settle here when fleeing Polynesian
(18:30):
settlers on Kauai. Items that have been found here
are mostly made of stones that in other parts of the islands
would have been made of wood. This includes bowls, tools and
even bird snares. The tools that have been found
are ads, fish and squiddler lures, hammers and stone awls.
(18:51):
These items would have been taken would have taken more time
and more skill to make out of stone.
Archaeologists Archaeologists have also found that other items
that have astonished them a series of humanoid figures
carved from stones ranging in a size in size up to a foot and a
half tall. That style in the material
differ from any other islands today.
(19:13):
MO Kuma Kuma Namana is listed onthe state and National Register
of Historic Places. The island is part of the
Hawaiian National Wildlife Refuge within the Papahana Umo
Kukawa Marine National Monument.In 2010, it was named as a World
(19:34):
Heritage Site to protect these incredible resources.
Access to the islands is permitted for scientific,
education or cultural purposes only.
Even if you are granted access, the trip is very difficult.
It can only be made by boat fromneighboring islands.
The surf crashing against the basalt makes it for a difficult
(19:55):
transfer to shore. It's been described as jumping
off a moving elevator, so we probably aren't going to put
this on part of our road trip list.
Come on, you know there's one more structure credit to the
Menahune, but I'm not going to dig into it.
It's called the the Paoka Menahune breakwater at Koala Bay
(20:16):
and it is another stone structure that is made that
actually made the Koala Bay usable as a safe harbor.
All right, So I've talked about 5-4 or five different structures
that have been attributed to theMenahune.
They all had similar properties,large structures built out of
(20:37):
refined stone that was quarried a distance away from the build
site. There were also feats of
engineering or or took skilled labor and dedication to
construct or manufacture these items and what was believed to
be the 1400s. So who are these people?
Some believe that there are dwarves or spirits with
miraculous powers, but there maybe a more accurate historical
(20:58):
explanation. It is believed that the original
settlers to Hawaii came before the settlers from Tahiti and the
Maracasse. The initial migration may have
come from the same general area,but the time frame and exact
location is unknown. The verbal history that was
handed down tells of stout, darkskinned people who were skilled
(21:19):
in construction. They came from Kahiki which
means ancestral homeland so there's no recording of where
this homeland was. They were subservient class
known as the Mana Huna the whichis MANA instead of MENA because
they were believed that they lacked spiritual power or mana.
(21:41):
The name over time changed to MENA Huna.
The men of Huna had a famous chief named Ola.
Works of Ola are still in existence today.
Kiki Ola Spouting of Ola is the grand Aqua duck at Waimea built
over Hewn rock. Hey hey la O Allah, the Lajavola
(22:03):
is the KOA or the Acacia forest of Ola.
There the KOA trees were felled and then hewn into canoes.
When the Polynesian settled the islands, it is believed that
they were more numerous than theMenahune.
This pushed them into the forestand other islands.
Could this be the beginning of the stories of the elusive
(22:24):
creatures that worked at night? In the book of Hawaiian legends,
William Hyde Rice describes the men Hune as a race of pygmies
who were squat, tremendously strong, powerfully built, and
very ugly of the face. Typically, it was believed that
they were only two to three feettall.
Is this an actual description, or does it have something to do
(22:46):
with the fact that they were outnumbered and considered a
smaller group of people, or thatthey were subservient?
There are a lot of things that we have lost in translation over
time. One thing that we do know that
in during an 1820 census of Waihiha Kahui, 65 people
identified themselves as Menahune descendants.
(23:10):
Over the time, the idea of the Menahune has developed into
stories of folklore. I talked about the structures
that were built seemingly overnight with materials that
needed to be borrowed from greatdistances.
There are stories of people who watch them work being turned to
stone. Much of the folklore also talks
about magic abilities that they have.
One source talked about how theycan control the elements and
(23:31):
vanish it. Well, some people will tell you
that you can find them on moonlit nights or you will hear
their laughter. There's also the feeling of
being watched when visiting the structures they built.
Of course, they're the typical stories we have seen in other
cultures. Don't stay out past.
Dark of the Menahune will get you.
Don't piss off for the manehuni or they'll turn you to stone.
(23:53):
There are some. There are so many stories that
go on about the manehuni, but they seem to pair.
They seem to draw a parallel manehuni or to Hawaiians what
leprechauns are to the Irish. These pint signs being these
pint sized beings reside in banana leaf huts and sustain
themselves on pineapple and sugar cane.
(24:13):
Their favorite flower is the biscuits and they are said to
share a special bond with dolphins.
Encountering them will bring yougood fortune.
There are stories of ghostly encounters with MENA honey
spirits, but with a culture thatdates back as far as the
Hawaiian Islands, how can we notexpect to have encounters with
spirits of these people? I was hoping to share a video
(24:34):
that I found, but I wasn't able to get permission to do that,
but I shared a copy. I shared a link to the story on
the Facebook page for the site or for the show tonight.
It was told by Hawaiian storyteller Lopaku Kupananu and
he shares his personal experience he had one night.
Another video I found where people were sharing their
(24:56):
experiences was from the Animal Planet show Finding Bigfoot.
One pair person who shared his experience shared that he was
hiking deep in the woods and found a cave.
He entered The Cave and had a low ceiling and he found a bench
like object that had been carvedout of stone.
He said if he had to guess he thought it was a home for
someone 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall. Another gentleman talked about a
(25:21):
time when he was riding his bicycle on his way to the work
at the sugar plantation. This was also deep in a wooded
area. As he was riding he heard two
men talking in a language that he had never heard before.
The sounds were guttural and hada lot of hard keg and clicking
sounds. When his bike snapped a twig,
(25:41):
the voices stopped. He continued on and when he
mentioned it to the 2 two local men who worked there, they said
this happened all the time. When the interviewer asked if it
could be someone lost, Speaking of foreign language, he
explained that this was in a secure area.
It was. It was Kapu.
You don't come in sugar plantation unless you have if
(26:04):
you unless you have business in the sugar plantation.
So the last thing I want to share here is a photo that was
captured at a wedding. The woman's name was Piagi
Spencer and she was married in 1988.
Six years later, her niece was looking at the pictures and saw
something. Piagi's believes that this is a
(26:25):
Menahune girl. If you if you see that there's
like an enlarged section there, there's a pass with a face in
it. She thought that the Menahune
were a myth until she saw this picture.
The village elders told her thatthe this was a girl who was
happy and wanted to be in the photo.
(26:46):
She also approved of the wedding.
So what do you think? Is it real photoshopped or is it
pareidolia? It's hard to say.
I do think that I'm going to have to make another trip to
Hawaii at some point for research.
I talked about the plaques that were on the Menahuni ditch
(27:06):
earlier. The top of the plaque goes in
the details about what was beingpreserved.
The sentence on the bottom of the plaque shares how the men in
Hune were respected by the Islanders.
And it says this, the shout of the men in Hunes at Kauai
startles the birds of oh, and those are those are the two
separate islands and they're miles apart.
(27:28):
So their thought is that it, youknow, these are strong people
who who can just control and have so much respect.
So I'm going to wrap this up with a short sentiment that I
found. The store of the Manehune
lingers like a whisper on the wind through the dense Hawaiian
forest. These shadowy figures, small in
(27:49):
stature but mighty in skill or more than just legends passed
down through generations. For some, they are real watchers
in the dark, builders of ancientwonders and perhaps even
guardians of a forgotten time. Their stone structures still
stand in silence, fish ponds, temples and roads crafted under
the veil of night. No tools, no footprints, no
(28:12):
explanation. Just the eerie sense that
something or someone was there. Locals speak in hushed tones
about sightings in the moonlight, about strange
laughter echoing in trees, and about the feeling of being
watched when no one else is around.
So the next time you find yourself on a quiet trail in the
Hawaiian wilderness or standing before an ancient ruin with no
(28:34):
clear signs of origin, listen closely.
The forest is never truly silent, and maybe, just maybe,
the menahune are still watching from the shadows, curious or
cautious about who dares to uncover their secrets.
Stay alert, stay respectful, andstay curious.
(28:58):
So I'm going to share my sourcesfor tonight, Jamie, while you
try to wrap your head around allthat and see where we end up.
So I'm going to start off with worldhistory.org, Manhune, quite
a few different articles from Hawaii Magazine, kauai.com, Holo
(29:19):
Holo Kua Boat Tours, living on maui.com, tpl.org, and there's a
couple more Hawaii Magazine ones.
So, and you know, our good friends at Atlas Obscure had
some things in there as well. So always do.
They always do. It would be disappointing if
(29:41):
they didn't, right? Yep.
So now that I've worked my way through that, yeah.
And I'm sorry, I really practiced those words.
I just could not get them out tonight.
So I understand, I understand, but I before we go too far here,
I, I always share this comment from Todd and Carmela.
So clapping hands emojis. Chad gets an A plus for
(30:02):
pronunciation tonight :). Do you guys draw straws?
Who gets to do the tongue twister episodes?
I I keep finding. The answer is no.
We, we do it to ourselves, you know, it.
And it I agree with that. The, the, the sediment of like,
you know, there's been a few that I've done and I'm drawing a
total blank on any of them. But you know, like I worked
(30:25):
through it for like a quite a while before.
And then it gets to the moment and you know, I, I don't know
what it is, but there is something you just kind of go
like, you know, like. And and you can put the
pronunciation out in your document, but it's.
Like, I phoneticize everything and hyphen it and, you know,
even use alternates and Oh my gosh, I still fumble.
So I'm not a linguist. I can say that definitely.
(30:49):
Not yeah, so. But you know, wow, what a what a
cool topic and thanks for the comment, Doctor Camilla.
It's pretty funny actually, and,and it, it does seem like it
happens. I I have I have questions why I
don't have a quick way of comments.
I'm not sure which way, but one of the things that I noticed,
(31:10):
and I guess it's not just here, you know, because Hawaii is the
islands are isolated, right? They're, they're not mainstream.
They're not connected to anything.
You have to get there. And therefore, you know, what
happens there. See, anything extraordinary
seems to be extraordinary, you know, So I and I, you know, I
(31:32):
can say this though, for other places in the world where there
has been extraordinary stoneworkthat it's not believed that
people of the era and time couldhave done it.
You know, the pyramids in Egypt,all of the Mayan, Incan and
Aztec pyramids, the, there are sites in, in the US as well that
(31:52):
are Native American sites the same way.
And we go into Southeast Asia, you know, there are there are
temples that are just unbelievable that shouldn't have
been able to be done by people of the time and era with the
tools and abilities that they'reperceived to have.
But yet it gets done. And, you know, we, we want to
(32:12):
dismiss these tremendous, just wonderful things that these
people have created to be something that was shouldn't
have happened. You know, like, therefore it has
to be something extra that help them.
You know, aliens built the pyramids.
You know, I hear that all the time, you know, and it, and it's
just a discredit to the uniqueness of the culture of the
(32:34):
persons who were there at the time, you know, So I'm going to
say that first. And, and I noticed something and
I'm, I'm, I'm going back, back to the, near the beginning of
the, the, the conversation, there was some natural
formations on the hill, on a Ridge that were perceived to be
the spies of the, the men who achieve or whatnot, you know,
(32:55):
and they're always there, you know, and that's, that's in, in
folklore, that's a natural way of describing something, you
know, and, and I, my mind went automatically to the Devil's
Tower in Wyoming. You know, this is a if you ever
saw the movie third encounter, close encounter of the third
kind. This is where the you know, the
(33:16):
the alien ship comes in home. If you haven't seen, I'd spoil
the whole movie for you, by the way, But it was made in 1978, so
you're kind of on your own anyway.
But you know, the idea that thisthis formation in native
folklore is that it was there were Indian Braves out hunting
and they they came across this giant bear of some of myth, you
know, mythological piece to thisbear.
(33:36):
I forget his name, but the running away from him, they
climbed this Mesa and the, the gouges that are in the the tower
are from the bear trying to get them, but he never could, right?
You know, So I mean, and that's the idea that that explain that,
you know, that that extra way ofexplaining a natural phenomenon
(33:57):
is fantastic because you know it, it's a great story and you
know, it's passed down and this is all oral tradition.
So it's all passed down generationally, you know, who
knows? I mean, we always say about
whisper down the lane or telephone game, whatever you
want to call it, you know, like how it may have started over
there and where it is today may not be what it what it is or
what it was, but it's still a fantastical thing, you know, and
(34:20):
it's a really cool belief that that's why that's there.
And I think that was neat because here we are a culture
that would never have contact with with us, you know, in the
mainland and especially, you know, folks up in Wyoming, the
native tribes there never would ever would have had that.
But yet we're all doing this around the world, right?
You know, in the cultures of their time.
I I. I found some reference to it.
(34:43):
I couldn't find a lot to expand on it, but the Necker Island
structures, they said that therewere two structures that they
didn't know what they did. There's some people that believe
that they were stones that are aligned with planetary objects.
Try again. So, you know, think of the I'm
drawing a blank on it now. The one in England, the stone
(35:06):
and things like that. And like on certain days they
lined up they and had thing. And so again, it's just there
are so many of these things thathappen in different places
across the world. And the question is why?
Like, how did they get the knowledge?
I mean, you can go back to the biblical stories where, you
know, we had the knowledge to dothis and then it was wiped out
(35:28):
because we, we, we took advantage of it.
So. But again, you know, there's
another text that is meant to teach lessons, you know, so.
Well, and, you know, on the backto the stonework to there, there
have been tribes that are found in the Amazon basin that never
(35:48):
have had contact with us, you know, being the civilized world
for like a better way of saying it, who have done just as much
detail work with stone and otherobjects that they shouldn't have
had access to. And the, the belief generally is
that it's because they didn't have an, a need for the, they
needed that material, not the natural resources.
(36:09):
Like there's a lot of lumber in the, in the Amazon basin.
It's it's a rainforest, you know, but here on the islands,
you know, there may not have been as much available.
So stone was more prevalent and,and they want to take down the
trees because they probably needed them for something else.
So you know, they found a way tomake the stone work happen
instead. Well, and especially if they
were coming from Polynesian islands, if if the first map of
(36:35):
Hawaii that I showed basically the the islands leading to what
we would consider mainland Hawaii.
Now those islands are all small and barren.
Like there's not a lot on them. There's there, there's no area
(36:58):
for trees or crops or anything like that.
So there's all these tiny islands that they would have hit
first if they were crossing great distances of the sea would
have been stone and rock. So it's what they would have had
to work with. And and as they probably the
population moved east, then theywere getting into things and
(37:21):
that they had trees, but they they had developed these skills
from stone because it's what they had.
Yeah. So it makes a, makes a lot of
sense if you think of it that way, because I'm sure this
migration didn't happen like, oh, we're, we're leaving Tahiti
and we're now in Kauai like. Exactly.
It didn't happen like. That it wasn't a straight line.
Yeah. Well, that, that, that takes me
to, you know, like Easter Islandand the, the Moai, you know, the
(37:46):
island, it, it had trees at one point and now it's basically
barren. And, but the statues are there,
you know, So again, they would have used the stone work to
create the, the, the obviously, I think some of this is still to
be determined what, what they'reintended for, especially as
they're positioned and facing out from the island and so
forth, you know, but there's, there's, there was nothing else
(38:09):
to use and there certainly wasn't anything large enough
like, you know, a stone, a boulder to create something
from. So, you know, you, you made it
work and that's what you used. That's just your, your medium.
And it's, you know, a lot of it is artistic as well.
So, you know, even even though they're building walls and other
pieces and they're still doing it with some decor to it, it's
(38:31):
not just stacking rocks, you know, there's intentionality to
it. So that's craftsmanship.
Right, yeah, it just, I don't know, I, I so.
Well, what do you think, Jamie? We're not going to say haunted
or not, but paranormal or not like.
Well, maybe maybe, you know, I, I have a thought on and I just
(38:53):
this is this hit me. I jotted my, my when I wrote it
down real quick. But, you know, you mentioned,
you know, this is, this is folklore, you know, and we talk
about things that are folklore all the time, But it struck me
that folklore allows for the, the expansion of belief, you
know, because it, it takes you to something that's more
fantastic than normalcy And it belief that these are, you know,
(39:20):
that, that the men at Hunay are two to three foot tall
individuals. You know, that's not unheard of.
There are pygmies in the world. There still are plenty of
tribes, you know, Australia, there's still stripes in in the
Amazon, you know, of individualswho are, we'll call him height
challenged, you know. But the belief that this tribe
was there, a tribe of this nature was there as well.
(39:43):
It's not outside the realm of possibility, you know that have
since either left by migration or have passed out of existence
by just bad luck. Or or not.
Not necessarily that though, butabsorbed into the new culture by
intermarriage and mating and things like that.
There was one discussion about how there was a mass migration
(40:07):
out of some of these islands, Kauai and stuff to Necker
islands to protect the culture. OK, so you know, and and and you
know, you start again, a lot of that, you start digging into
stories of, you know, was it a again, a story just to protect
(40:29):
the culture and, you know, prevent intermix intermarriage
and things like that. One thing I did find is that
pre, let's call it colonialization, when the
Europeans came into and started bringing their culture, their
disease, those things into the Hawaiian Islands, none of this
(40:52):
was written down. There are no journals.
There were no, you know, even even sail, like even ships that
have passed through there, therewas no stories of them, of the
Menhunae. It was only when the white
people started settling in that we started getting the stories.
(41:13):
So was it something to protect aculture?
Well, we've seen that before. So, you know, it's not unheard
of when when colonizers started arriving and it happened in the,
in, in North America as well. You know, so you're dealing with
(41:34):
people who really don't want youto be there.
So they give you this the story,you know, to hopefully scare you
away now. And, and unfortunately, you
know, these are these are peoplewho want something.
So, you know, they, they're pretty robust and don't scare
easily. They survive three months on a
ship. You know, I'm going to go as far
as I can go. You know, even even then, you
(41:57):
know, this, this, the tails didn't get people to stop.
I mean, it might have intrigued more, you know, activity and
engagement, you know, and that'sslightly disappointing, I guess,
you know, but and I I'm not second guessing history or
judging history, although I guess I am in my mind, I am just
terrible things happen to these people.
(42:19):
They're cultures and you know, so many things were destroyed
by, you know, what we'll call progress.
It's it's difficult sometimes and all of how how much because
I can't see that much of it anymore.
You know, so much of it has beenassimilated into what we are now
that, you know, there's these tales exist.
(42:39):
And I love the fact that this isoral history, you know, because
you know, it, it, it, it's again, we'll go with folklore
and how many times we have had stories that were that and, you
know, we asked the question paranormal or not, you know, it,
it makes it tougher because it is a tale.
There's no evidence, you know, but at some point you got to
(43:01):
suspend belief, you know, of, ofphysical things and just take it
on trust. And I want to believe the answer
your question, you know, on that, to step back a second.
I want to believe that, yes, this is entirely possible.
And I want to, I want to believethat there are still men who in
in the jungles and the crevices of the country and, you know,
(43:22):
the country land that they're inthat that are still there.
It's, you know, it's not unlike the Huldufolk episode, you know,
you know, I want to believe thatthey're they're they're, you
know, still working their magic,punting and not I'm not sure,
but you know, just I want to believe that.
But I, I still, if these things exist, there should be some
(43:46):
evidence by now too, right? Something.
But not not just one blurry picture from a web.
That nobody, a probable pareidelia picture, right, You
know, or a bench found in a cave, you know, where it could
be anything. You know, we're gonna hang out
for kids, you know, somebody lived nearby, Gosh knows what.
(44:07):
But you know, there should be a there should be some bones.
There should be some civil like sense of what civilization is
for us, you know, some campsite something, right?
Yeah. I don't know.
I'm stretching this but. Yeah, but but, you know, we
haven't found Bigfoot either. But we've found, we've found
proof that there may be a big, you know, it's what you know.
(44:28):
Yeah, well, again, it's what youwant to believe.
And that's, that's cool. That's the that's the fun part
of this, you know, because you and I could have totally
uniquely different opinions or either of us are wrong.
Right. Because there isn't anything to
say. We either of us are.
Right. So, yeah, it's definitely an
interesting one. Yeah.
You know, do I think that they were built overnight?
(44:49):
No, I don't think so. But it's a great story, right?
Right. And again, that's the part of it
that's really cool. Yeah, but you talked about how
progress, you know, it's a shamethat progress destroyed things
like the road. I mean, it was a horse, horse
path originally that that was built over this this aqueduct.
(45:10):
But then a road was just built and right over top of it just
because that's where that road needed to be.
Yeah. So, yeah, we, it has taken us a
long time and it's taken us a long time to remember, realize
that the importance of cultural heritage and and preserving
(45:31):
that. And sometimes we forget like
remodeling houses, like it's like, Oh well, we'll just board
that over. Well, at some point that may be
important to somebody. So you never know.
The ghost will let you know if it's if it's important.
Or not. This is true.
So it's spirit of the house. This one, yeah.
(45:55):
So so anyway that that's what I got.
It was a fun one to do. It really was thank you.
And, you know, tongue, tongue twisting aside, it was really
cool too to hear, you know, thisis this is a culture where you
don't know not until you get to invest in it.
You know, and I I agree with you.
Like I've been places around thecountry.
(46:17):
I've traveled a lot with a past career every week and you know,
not as when you're working and you know, you don't have time to
invest in the stuff that's around you.
And there's plenty of places I wish I would have spent more
time or could have spent more time, you know, But when 12 hour
days happen, you know, you don'thave much to do more with.
But you know, if there was ever that chance to go back and
(46:39):
retrace all that, I I would be all in.
I'm in for Hawaii. Whenever you are, we'll do a
research trip. Well, so we're Todd and Carmela.
Yeah, there it is, right. Yes, it they say.
Well, so when it when is the road trip via airplane to Hawaii
to do more research on the Manhune may have missed it in
Chad's talk, but if it's just folklore, who the heck came up
(46:59):
with it and started it? That's it.
There you go. Yeah, that's answer that
question and you can answer folklore all across the world, I
bet. Absolutely.
So, but yeah, it is cool. It's it's something we will
never know until that day. We do know, you know so.
(47:21):
Say you know one more time. No.
Fine, fine. All right.
Well, should we move on, Jamie? Of course.
No problem. All right, all right, so
upcoming episodes next week, I am going to explore the Brushy
Mountain State Penitentiary. Can we can we put some tongue
(47:41):
twisters in that just for the? Family, I hope not.
I hope not. You know, I don't think there
will be many. But the week after, on the on
June 17th, Chad's going to explore the hauntings of his
childhood home. And I'll tie nicely into the
June 24th episode of Gettysburg as they are, as Chad's home is 9
(48:01):
miles South or so. 7 miles. 7 miles even closer.
So there's a lot of history going through the area there.
July 1st we're going to do a season 2 wrap up.
Can you believe it's the end of the season already Channel Lake
cow and we're going to take a week off because it's summer and
we're going to Chad's going on vacation on that technically
vacation. He's going to volunteer his
camp, which I call vacation justbecause it sounds like one he's
(48:24):
going to he's going to be busy very busy all week and I don't
know how to make any of this stuff work so and we're going to
have a special episode. We're going to do something
special in the 15th when we comeback, but it won't necessarily
be US. And that's very confusing, I
know. I don't think we know how to say
what we're doing quite yet, but it's going to be uniquely
different than anything you've seen from us before.
(48:45):
It's a collaboration evening, somore details on that coming up
in the next couple weeks. Yeah, Todd and Carmelo won at
least one or two tongue twisters.
I'll see what I can do. I'll have my people look into
it. All right.
And then coming up for opportunities, the Haunted
(49:06):
Crescent Horror and Paracon event is coming up on June 28th
out at Crescent Haunted Crescentin mid state.
So we're going to be there at the team.
Chad and I and I believe some others from Jotnick's paranormal
will be there for the day. We'll have some stuff to share
and just, you know, kind of grant grant some awareness about
the the podcast and what our team does Rep in our home and at
(49:29):
the Boobies Brewery in Mount Joy, PA as well.
That whole day is filled with cool stuff.
So if you're anywhere nearby or even if you're not plan for it,
you got a couple weeks to figureout how to get there.
And there is an evening investigation of the Crescent
site as well, which is a massivesprawling location with all
kinds of cool stuff. So come for the day, stay for
(49:51):
the investigation. Yeah, it's not on our list of
things that we're doing, Jamie, but I got invited to the DOS
House thing, which is the week before that.
My first, yes, that's aware. So that's the creeper real
event. Yeah, if you if you would.
And we talked to Shawna, I believe from the DOS house a
couple weeks ago. Great, great person.
(50:11):
I'd love to go. I don't think I can make it
work. But if if you can, if you can go
out and see Shawna. It's on my calendar actually, so
I'm going to try. OK, so all.
Right. Let's slide over one more.
I got this. All right.
So no, I can't, can't seem to get that one right.
OK, back it up. There we go.
So so for us with dot Next Paranormal again coming up on
(50:34):
June 28th, we'll be at Haunted Crescent Sanatorium and the
prison for their horror and Paracon on the 26th of July.
It's a little ways off actually,but we have another public
investigation of Boobies Brewerysame on August 16th, September
27th, October 11th and October 18th.
Tickets are actually moving for these events already.
So we always say don't wait tillthe last minute because they
(50:56):
unfortunately do sell out and weare limited on capacity.
But if you're all at all in the Mount Joy, PA area, any of these
dates, you're welcome to come investigate with us.
It's always an exciting, fun time.
And if you've never done it before, we'll teach you how.
That's what we do. All right, And finally, to wrap
up on all of us, there's the social media stuff, but we can
(51:18):
find us all. You found us here tonight, at
least on YouTube because unfortunately we had a challenge
with Facebook and we apologize those who normally try to find
us there. But we will be on the streaming
services of Spotify, Apple Podcast, Audible and so forth
tomorrow and a few others. I'm sure I'm missing something
there, but we have a Facebook page for the team.
We have a TikTok and Instagram, of course, YouTube where most of
(51:41):
you are finding us right now. And then also there is a link
tree for all of that good stuff.And that font is way too small
for me to read chat, so I'm sorry I'm not going to.
It's it's link linktr dot EE andthen back slash paranormal lens.
Paranormal lens. Perfect.
And then of course, you know, with with us, if you have an
episode you'd like to see us do or something else to cover for
(52:06):
you, you can always e-mail us atparanormallenspodcast@gmail.com.
We will both get that now. Thank you, Chad.
And we're always interested in doing listener submissions.
This was one of them tonight with Manahune.
We have a few others coming up later in later being in Season 3
season. Three, we were we were renewed.
(52:28):
Yeah, we, we, well, we ruined ourselves.
So, OK, no one said no yet. So let's go.
But you know, it, it, it's our pleasure to to tackle the topics
that you're interested in hearing.
Just let us know. That's what we do.
So of course, we're going to find our own topics too.
So it's thanks for coming along for the ride and, and making
this all fun for us to do. We appreciate it, You know, two
(52:50):
seasons already. Holy cow, I'll be a little more
misty eyed when we get to the end the next couple episodes, I
guess, but which was was also Speaking of that, when we get to
the wrap up, you know, we're asking folks to give us a give
us a short list of your favoriteepisodes from the season, some
things to think through and talkabout Chad, your, your homework
in mind, as well as to come up with maybe 5 or so your favorite
(53:11):
episodes. And let's go back to Season 1 if
we want to, I guess, anything. We've.
Got is like 105 episodes out there now so there's plenty to
choose from. I, I think I'm going to have to
say Menahune is is that's prettyhigh up the list for me.
I enjoyed that one even though Icouldn't say one of the words
correctly at all. But.
You know, well, you know it, it's, it's funny how that works.
(53:34):
Like they're all my favorites. I really mean that.
I've enjoyed every one of these.But you know, it always seems to
me like the last one we did was my favorite one because that's
the freshest 1. You know, it's the one right to
mind anyway, But you know, it's,it's easy, but you know, you
can't pick a favorite because they're like your kids.
You're not allowed to do that out loud, right?
Yeah. Well, as always, thanks
(53:58):
everybody for for tuning in whether you're caught us tonight
here on on the live broadcast. You're going to catch up to us
later on on the streaming services again, leave us a
comment. Hopefully, if if you whatever
application you're on, if there's a way to leave a review,
please do leave some stars. We we hope we've earned 5, but
you know, I understand if it's something less, whatever it may
(54:18):
be, let us know. It helps us understand how we're
doing, what we're what we're up to.
You know, for for you guys are catching from us.
So and it means love the feedback.
We appreciate it. It's all good.
It's all good stuff. So all right.
All right, so next week, Brushy Mountain.
Yep. And a tongue twister maybe or
two, who knows. So and thanks again for tonight,
(54:41):
we'll see y'all soon. Yep.
All right. Good night, everybody.
Have a great week and we'll talkto you soon.
All right.
The. Good evening and welcome to the
Paranormal Luns Podcast hosted by Jotnik's Paranormal.
My name's Chad Thomas, and that guy over there somewhere there
is Jamie Widener. How you doing, Jamie?
(00:55):
Chad, I'm wonderful. It is Tuesday already.
Like it's so great. The week's the week just flies
by. All the other stuff we did
doesn't matter anymore. Back to the program.
What's going on with you? Well, it is a It's a busy
emotional week. It's a.
That's a nice way to say that yes, it's it is.
(01:16):
There's, there's lots going on with, with the senior in the
family and the high school senior, not the senior senior,
but we've got some. Maybe there too, who knows,
right? So yeah, Zoe graduates from high
school tomorrow, so we are superexcited about that, I think.
Well, we all are. I'm not sure about her.
(01:40):
Actually, then we we're having some issues with Facebook, so
I'm not sure what is going on there.
So we may not be streaming to Facebook.
We'll see what happens. But anyway, so yeah, we've got,
we've got that going on. So today was the senior walk at
(02:02):
the elementary school, which Steph sent some pictures to us
and that was really nice. Just yeah, lots, lots going on
this week did get some sad news from my camp family.
They're one of the one of the people that we all look up to is
in palliative care right now andthat's that's sort of hard to
hard to go through, but it's part of life.
(02:24):
And you know, he's a well respected person and we will
miss him when he's not here, butwe have fond memories of him.
But anyway, moving on. What about you?
Let's. Well, about the same it's it's
it's saying it's an emotional week is a really, really good
point. You know, all these years of
getting here to here, you know, and you know, you think about
(02:47):
it, you're remiss a little bit, you know, back to your time of
doing this too. And you know, it's like, man,
then I get sad because like how many years have gone by since
then? So a lot, a lot is the answer.
But you know, it is so cool and so exciting at the same time,
you know, and the because the future is still bright and then
(03:07):
all in front, you know, and, and, and not that it's not for
us anymore, but you know, that moment is just it's, it's one of
those moments, you know, and youknow, and there's hopefully
many, many more to come, but I know there will be.
But, you know, right now this islike the biggest accomplishment,
you know, So it's just so exciting.
And you know it's going to be over in a blink tomorrow, so.
(03:29):
Well, it to disappoint you, but it's going to.
Take hours, right, 66000 kids that are running in this school,
whatever, but jeez, you got to talk and you know, you know, you
take a pillow, but you know the whole experience is over soon.
You know the rap of it, so it's kind of cool.
Yeah. Yeah, Other than that, you know,
it's just we've been getting ready for this all weekend.
(03:51):
So it's, you know, you can find the right outfit.
We had to do this. We had to do that.
So you know, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's wrap.
It's it's let's get there tomorrow.
Yeah. So I will literally be dropping
her off too. So it's like.
Yeah, I got, I got to drop her off the last full day of school,
right. And you get to drop her off the
last day of school. So the last real day of school.
(04:12):
Yeah, so official day, whatever you call it.
So yeah, that's. The cool thing too, like when
you're a senior, you get to likebag out a couple days at the
end. That's so fun.
You know so. They went to Hershey Park on
Monday, They had a picnic today,you know, like, Yep.
Yep, it's, it's a, it's a great,it's a great time for them to be
alive and. Like a retirement party, right?
(04:32):
You know, kind of. Yeah, exactly so.
Like, I'm never going to retire,but you know, I hear they're
fun. So anyway, I'm still I'm trying
to figure out what this issue with Facebook is.
It's good to see Todd and Carmela are with us.
Hi, guys. Good evening.
So thanks for the congratulations for Zoe.
We appreciate it. So I'm going to see if I can, I
(04:56):
don't know if I can add this back now or not, but we'll see,
see what happens, if any. Todd and Cornell, if you could
jump on the Facebook page and share, tell everybody to jump on
YouTube, that'd be great. We'd appreciate that.
Around to that right? Anyway, let's let's jump to what
we were talking about for this week, Jamie.
(05:18):
So we're going to talk about theHawaiian Islands a little bit.
So Jamie, have you brushed up onyour history of the Hawaiian
Islands? Do you know all about them?
Like what? You know what we're talking
about? I had all these worked out and
now I'm going to have a hard time with them.
Kuwi Island. Are you familiar with that?
(05:39):
The the history, the folklore? You know, I, I had, I had some
of this back in the day, you know, as far as the, the time of
the explorers. And I don't want to say the
colonizers is more accurate, I guess coming and landing in the
islands and and who doesn't likea nice Hawaiian punch?
So about after about the end of that for me.
(06:01):
So I'm, I'm I'm going to trust everything you tell me is true.
OK, well, we'll have a reason todoubt you.
First of all, let me say that. All right, well, I'm trying to
get my screen set up here so I can get everything right.
So from what you said, I'm guessing you haven't heard of
Kiki Ola, the Alacoco Fish Pond and the Ulupo Hai Yi Au right?
(06:29):
No. No.
What about the Necker Island structures of the Paoku Menahune
breakwater at Kuhula Lu Bay? No.
No same. No, OK, well.
Apparently I'm I'm uninformed. Well, I can say that until I was
(06:51):
researching tonight's topics, I haven't heard of them either.
So I'm a little disappointed that I didn't know anything
about these places because I visited.
I can't. I can't believe I'm struggling
with this word quali in 2021 andwould have enjoyed learning more
about these in person. Sure.
(07:12):
So what do all these places havein common other than being a
tongue twister for non-native Hawaiian speakers?
Legend has it that these places were all built by the Menahune.
Now before we dig into the Menahune, which are a mythical
people who inhabit the island, let's look at these structures.
The Kiki Alu Alu I I this is going to be a lot of fun and I
(07:38):
apologize to anybody from Hawaiiwho listens to this.
I am not trying to butcher your language.
The the Kiki Alu and the Lika ElCoco fish pond are located on
the island of Kauai, and Kahula Bay is on the island of Hawaii.
A Lupo Heyu is on Oha, and the Necker Island structures are in
(08:00):
a small uninhabited island in the northwest part of the island
chain. So what's what we got going
there? Kikiola is also known as the
Menahune Ditch, so much easier to pronounce.
It's a historic irrigation ditchlocated near Waiamea.
(08:20):
Unfortunately, if you visit the site today, not much remains to
be seen of the structure. But in 1793, when British
explorer Captain George Vancouver visited the aqueduct,
it was something to behold. It stood 24 feet high and the
top of it was used as a walkway.There are 120 neatly cut and
(08:45):
smoothed basalt stones that remain.
Researchers speculate that the structure went on for several
mile miles. In 1924, during modernization, a
road was built that covers almost the entire structure.
What puzzles archaeologists is that the only that this is the
only example of this type of engineering in the Hawaiian
(09:05):
Islands. They also believe that this
structure predates the 14th century Tahitian migration to
Hawaii. While irrigation canals are
common, the construction of thisunique is this one is unique.
Irrigation canals were often built to move water from streams
and waterfalls and mountains to ponds in the drier flatlands
(09:26):
where terror crops were planted.To prevent erosion, the canals
would be lined with lava rocks that were were available close
to the canal site. When I visited visited Kauai, we
took a tubing trip down the handdug irrigation canal.
It was lined with stone and actually had been tunneled
(09:46):
through three large lava structures, and it was amazing,
but it was nowhere near what theMenahune ditch is believed to
be. Here's an excerpt from a story
in the Hawaii magazine Legends of Kiki Ola.
Describe how Ola, the son of Chief Ku Allah NI Nu IPA UU
(10:07):
Kukumo, who ordered the Menahuneto build the wall in one night.
A large group of Menahune men and women obtained the stones
from the quarry 7 miles away andsomehow brought them to the
location. After its completion, Ola paid
the Menahune per person, which is what they had requested.
(10:31):
Sounds like cheap labor to me. Now you may ask how they moved
that many stones from the quarryto the build site.
Some believe that there were enough people that they lined up
and passed the stones fire brigade style.
No matter how they did it, it seems to me like it was an
amazing feat of engineering. In 1928, a plaque was erected to
(10:52):
designate the site as a historical landmark of the
Territory of Hawaii. On November 16th, 1984, it was
added to the National Register of Historic Places.
So that was pretty amazing. You know, big, big stone
structure made out of basalt, which is, you know, a fairly
hard stone by a primitive peoplewho would not have had many
(11:16):
tools. So let's look at the next one.
The next structure we're going to talk about is the Alicoco or
Manahune fish pot. It is believed to be between 600
to 1000 years old. This is this pond is known as a
Loku Kuapa. It is a traditional Hawaiian
(11:37):
aquaculture technique. The goal of these ponds was to
create a controlled environment for raising and harvesting fish.
This typically would have been awa, mullet and moo milk fish.
The Menahuni Pond was constructed a dam part of the
Huliya River. The construction of this dam
consisted of building a 900 footlava Rockwall on a bend in the
(11:59):
river. This converted 6 acres of land
to a pond. The ancient engineering was so
carefully designed that it allowed water to flow in and out
with the tides but kept the fishfrom escaping.
This allowed the capturing of the fish to feed the alley or
the Hawaiian royalty and the local community.
(12:22):
On the Hawaii Guide website I found this story about how the
pond was commissioned and constructed.
Legend states that the walls of the pond were built in one night
by a group of manahune who were commissioned by the King of the
Polynesians to build the pond. The manahune lined up on the
hillside and formed a human chain, passing the stones from
one down the hillside until theywere in place, or passing the
(12:46):
stones 1 by 1 down the hillside until they were in place.
Their fingers and hands were so worn from the work that they
were dripping with blood. This is the literal translation
of Alococo Alley meaning dripping and Coco means blood.
Another legend states that the Menahune king agreed to build
upon under the condition that noone else observed the work.
(13:08):
The Polynesian king agreed and work commenced on a cloudy full
moon night. Halfway through the night, the
clouds parted to reveal the fullmoon, which shone brightly on
the mountains on the other side of the riverbank.
High up on the mountaintop, the son and daughter of the
Polynesian king had hidden themselves on the Ridge.
The Menahuni king was infuriatedthat his people were being spied
(13:30):
on while doing their work and turned the two onlookers into
stone where they are still visible today as 2 rock
pinnacles sticking up on the ridgeline.
The Menahuni king ordered his men to stop work immediately,
which is meant to explain the why.
There is one section of wall that was built using a different
type of rock. Other sources say that like the
(13:53):
Menahuni Ditch, the stone required to build the structure
came from several miles away andwas passed hand by hand,
possibly for 25 miles. This location was added to the
National Register of Historic Places in 1973 and was
designated designated as the Julia National Wildlife Refuge
in the same year. You can kayak down the river and
(14:16):
see the wall, but the entrance to the pond and its refuge is
closed to the public. There are some very beautiful
views that make it take amazing photos.
All right, there is another fishpond on the island of Maui
called the Kalepapo Fish Pond. This one.
(14:39):
The wall for this pond is actually 11 thousand 11173 feet
long and encloses 3 acres of ocean.
The depth average is 3 to 5 feetand works in the same way the
Riverside pond does. Archaeological dating of pollen
taken from the core samples showthat this particular pond was
built after 18 after 1488 and also is believed to be the work
(15:02):
of the Menahune. The next structure we're going
to talk about is the Alupa AlupoHe I, which I stated earlier, is
on the island of Oahu, now knownas the Ilupa High State
Historical site. It overlooks the Kawa Anu marsh
(15:27):
and is a sacred within an ancient Hawaiian temple.
The site showcases the intersection of spirituality and
agriculture. The Ulupo is a significant
spiritual site that served as a ceremonial Center for Native
Hawaiians dedicated to the God Cain.
It also played a pivotal role inreligious ceremonies and
(15:50):
offerings aimed at ensuring agriculture, prosperity and
community well-being. Beyond its spiritual role, it
holds agriculture importance. It was strategically positioned
to overlook Kawa E Nu March, which was a central point for
managing and overseeing the cultivations of the tarot
fields, which was a staple crop in Hawaiian culture.
(16:14):
The construction reflects the meticulous craftsmanship of the
early Hawaiians. The lava rocks were carefully
stacked without mortar and it stands as a testament to the
engineering skills and the cultural significance attributed
to these sacred structures. Legend also associates that this
site was built by the Menahune, which gives you an idea how old
the site may be. The massiveness in the quantity
(16:37):
of the rock carried many miles hints at its cultural
importance. Traditional Records Tradition
records Kulu kulaloa more than 10 miles away as one of the
sources of these stones. Ulupo Hinaya measures 140 by
180, with walls up to 30 feet inheight.
(17:00):
Several Oahu Oahu chiefs lived at Kailu and probably
participated in ceremonies at Lupo, including Kakuhi Elwa in
the 1400s and Cooley in this late 1600s.
Cooley fought many battles, and he may have rededicated the Lupo
(17:22):
as a as a ceremonial place. In 1962, a bronze plaque was
installed by the Commission of Historical Sites, and the site
is now on the National and Hawaii Register of Historical
Places. All right, and somehow I got
ahead. The final structure we're going
(17:46):
to talk about is the Neckar Island structures.
The small barren island goes by the local name.
I'm going to say this once I think Mokuma na Mana, and it's
made of basalt and is only 46 acres.
But within that acreage are 55 cultural places that have been
found. 33 of those are religiousstructures and there are 17
(18:09):
shelter caves. Two sites have unknown
functions. The island has very little soil,
so it was not suitable for agricultural.
So why do we have such a concentration of cultural
artifacts here? It is believed that it was a
sacred place and used primarily for worship, or that the
manihune were forced to settle here when fleeing Polynesian
(18:30):
settlers on Kauai. Items that have been found here
are mostly made of stones that in other parts of the islands
would have been made of wood. This includes bowls, tools and
even bird snares. The tools that have been found
are ads, fish and squiddler lures, hammers and stone awls.
(18:51):
These items would have been taken would have taken more time
and more skill to make out of stone.
Archaeologists Archaeologists have also found that other items
that have astonished them a series of humanoid figures
carved from stones ranging in a size in size up to a foot and a
half tall. That style in the material
differ from any other islands today.
(19:13):
MO Kuma Kuma Namana is listed onthe state and National Register
of Historic Places. The island is part of the
Hawaiian National Wildlife Refuge within the Papahana Umo
Kukawa Marine National Monument.In 2010, it was named as a World
(19:34):
Heritage Site to protect these incredible resources.
Access to the islands is permitted for scientific,
education or cultural purposes only.
Even if you are granted access, the trip is very difficult.
It can only be made by boat fromneighboring islands.
The surf crashing against the basalt makes it for a difficult
(19:55):
transfer to shore. It's been described as jumping
off a moving elevator, so we probably aren't going to put
this on part of our road trip list.
Come on, you know there's one more structure credit to the
Menahune, but I'm not going to dig into it.
It's called the the Paoka Menahune breakwater at Koala Bay
(20:16):
and it is another stone structure that is made that
actually made the Koala Bay usable as a safe harbor.
All right, So I've talked about 5-4 or five different structures
that have been attributed to theMenahune.
They all had similar properties,large structures built out of
(20:37):
refined stone that was quarried a distance away from the build
site. There were also feats of
engineering or or took skilled labor and dedication to
construct or manufacture these items and what was believed to
be the 1400s. So who are these people?
Some believe that there are dwarves or spirits with
miraculous powers, but there maybe a more accurate historical
(20:58):
explanation. It is believed that the original
settlers to Hawaii came before the settlers from Tahiti and the
Maracasse. The initial migration may have
come from the same general area,but the time frame and exact
location is unknown. The verbal history that was
handed down tells of stout, darkskinned people who were skilled
(21:19):
in construction. They came from Kahiki which
means ancestral homeland so there's no recording of where
this homeland was. They were subservient class
known as the Mana Huna the whichis MANA instead of MENA because
they were believed that they lacked spiritual power or mana.
(21:41):
The name over time changed to MENA Huna.
The men of Huna had a famous chief named Ola.
Works of Ola are still in existence today.
Kiki Ola Spouting of Ola is the grand Aqua duck at Waimea built
over Hewn rock. Hey hey la O Allah, the Lajavola
(22:03):
is the KOA or the Acacia forest of Ola.
There the KOA trees were felled and then hewn into canoes.
When the Polynesian settled the islands, it is believed that
they were more numerous than theMenahune.
This pushed them into the forestand other islands.
Could this be the beginning of the stories of the elusive
(22:24):
creatures that worked at night? In the book of Hawaiian legends,
William Hyde Rice describes the men Hune as a race of pygmies
who were squat, tremendously strong, powerfully built, and
very ugly of the face. Typically, it was believed that
they were only two to three feettall.
Is this an actual description, or does it have something to do
(22:46):
with the fact that they were outnumbered and considered a
smaller group of people, or thatthey were subservient?
There are a lot of things that we have lost in translation over
time. One thing that we do know that
in during an 1820 census of Waihiha Kahui, 65 people
identified themselves as Menahune descendants.
(23:10):
Over the time, the idea of the Menahune has developed into
stories of folklore. I talked about the structures
that were built seemingly overnight with materials that
needed to be borrowed from greatdistances.
There are stories of people who watch them work being turned to
stone. Much of the folklore also talks
about magic abilities that they have.
One source talked about how theycan control the elements and
(23:31):
vanish it. Well, some people will tell you
that you can find them on moonlit nights or you will hear
their laughter. There's also the feeling of
being watched when visiting the structures they built.
Of course, they're the typical stories we have seen in other
cultures. Don't stay out past.
Dark of the Menahune will get you.
Don't piss off for the manehuni or they'll turn you to stone.
(23:53):
There are some. There are so many stories that
go on about the manehuni, but they seem to pair.
They seem to draw a parallel manehuni or to Hawaiians what
leprechauns are to the Irish. These pint signs being these
pint sized beings reside in banana leaf huts and sustain
themselves on pineapple and sugar cane.
(24:13):
Their favorite flower is the biscuits and they are said to
share a special bond with dolphins.
Encountering them will bring yougood fortune.
There are stories of ghostly encounters with MENA honey
spirits, but with a culture thatdates back as far as the
Hawaiian Islands, how can we notexpect to have encounters with
spirits of these people? I was hoping to share a video
(24:34):
that I found, but I wasn't able to get permission to do that,
but I shared a copy. I shared a link to the story on
the Facebook page for the site or for the show tonight.
It was told by Hawaiian storyteller Lopaku Kupananu and
he shares his personal experience he had one night.
Another video I found where people were sharing their
(24:56):
experiences was from the Animal Planet show Finding Bigfoot.
One pair person who shared his experience shared that he was
hiking deep in the woods and found a cave.
He entered The Cave and had a low ceiling and he found a bench
like object that had been carvedout of stone.
He said if he had to guess he thought it was a home for
someone 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall. Another gentleman talked about a
(25:21):
time when he was riding his bicycle on his way to the work
at the sugar plantation. This was also deep in a wooded
area. As he was riding he heard two
men talking in a language that he had never heard before.
The sounds were guttural and hada lot of hard keg and clicking
sounds. When his bike snapped a twig,
(25:41):
the voices stopped. He continued on and when he
mentioned it to the 2 two local men who worked there, they said
this happened all the time. When the interviewer asked if it
could be someone lost, Speaking of foreign language, he
explained that this was in a secure area.
It was. It was Kapu.
You don't come in sugar plantation unless you have if
(26:04):
you unless you have business in the sugar plantation.
So the last thing I want to share here is a photo that was
captured at a wedding. The woman's name was Piagi
Spencer and she was married in 1988.
Six years later, her niece was looking at the pictures and saw
something. Piagi's believes that this is a
(26:25):
Menahune girl. If you if you see that there's
like an enlarged section there, there's a pass with a face in
it. She thought that the Menahune
were a myth until she saw this picture.
The village elders told her thatthe this was a girl who was
happy and wanted to be in the photo.
(26:46):
She also approved of the wedding.
So what do you think? Is it real photoshopped or is it
pareidolia? It's hard to say.
I do think that I'm going to have to make another trip to
Hawaii at some point for research.
I talked about the plaques that were on the Menahuni ditch
(27:06):
earlier. The top of the plaque goes in
the details about what was beingpreserved.
The sentence on the bottom of the plaque shares how the men in
Hune were respected by the Islanders.
And it says this, the shout of the men in Hunes at Kauai
startles the birds of oh, and those are those are the two
separate islands and they're miles apart.
(27:28):
So their thought is that it, youknow, these are strong people
who who can just control and have so much respect.
So I'm going to wrap this up with a short sentiment that I
found. The store of the Manehune
lingers like a whisper on the wind through the dense Hawaiian
forest. These shadowy figures, small in
(27:49):
stature but mighty in skill or more than just legends passed
down through generations. For some, they are real watchers
in the dark, builders of ancientwonders and perhaps even
guardians of a forgotten time. Their stone structures still
stand in silence, fish ponds, temples and roads crafted under
the veil of night. No tools, no footprints, no
(28:12):
explanation. Just the eerie sense that
something or someone was there. Locals speak in hushed tones
about sightings in the moonlight, about strange
laughter echoing in trees, and about the feeling of being
watched when no one else is around.
So the next time you find yourself on a quiet trail in the
Hawaiian wilderness or standing before an ancient ruin with no
(28:34):
clear signs of origin, listen closely.
The forest is never truly silent, and maybe, just maybe,
the menahune are still watching from the shadows, curious or
cautious about who dares to uncover their secrets.
Stay alert, stay respectful, andstay curious.
(28:58):
So I'm going to share my sourcesfor tonight, Jamie, while you
try to wrap your head around allthat and see where we end up.
So I'm going to start off with worldhistory.org, Manhune, quite
a few different articles from Hawaii Magazine, kauai.com, Holo
(29:19):
Holo Kua Boat Tours, living on maui.com, tpl.org, and there's a
couple more Hawaii Magazine ones.
So, and you know, our good friends at Atlas Obscure had
some things in there as well. So always do.
They always do. It would be disappointing if
(29:41):
they didn't, right? Yep.
So now that I've worked my way through that, yeah.
And I'm sorry, I really practiced those words.
I just could not get them out tonight.
So I understand, I understand, but I before we go too far here,
I, I always share this comment from Todd and Carmela.
So clapping hands emojis. Chad gets an A plus for
(30:02):
pronunciation tonight :). Do you guys draw straws?
Who gets to do the tongue twister episodes?
I I keep finding. The answer is no.
We, we do it to ourselves, you know, it.
And it I agree with that. The, the, the sediment of like,
you know, there's been a few that I've done and I'm drawing a
total blank on any of them. But you know, like I worked
(30:25):
through it for like a quite a while before.
And then it gets to the moment and you know, I, I don't know
what it is, but there is something you just kind of go
like, you know, like. And and you can put the
pronunciation out in your document, but it's.
Like, I phoneticize everything and hyphen it and, you know,
even use alternates and Oh my gosh, I still fumble.
So I'm not a linguist. I can say that definitely.
(30:49):
Not yeah, so. But you know, wow, what a what a
cool topic and thanks for the comment, Doctor Camilla.
It's pretty funny actually, and,and it, it does seem like it
happens. I I have I have questions why I
don't have a quick way of comments.
I'm not sure which way, but one of the things that I noticed,
(31:10):
and I guess it's not just here, you know, because Hawaii is the
islands are isolated, right? They're, they're not mainstream.
They're not connected to anything.
You have to get there. And therefore, you know, what
happens there. See, anything extraordinary
seems to be extraordinary, you know, So I and I, you know, I
(31:32):
can say this though, for other places in the world where there
has been extraordinary stoneworkthat it's not believed that
people of the era and time couldhave done it.
You know, the pyramids in Egypt,all of the Mayan, Incan and
Aztec pyramids, the, there are sites in, in the US as well that
(31:52):
are Native American sites the same way.
And we go into Southeast Asia, you know, there are there are
temples that are just unbelievable that shouldn't have
been able to be done by people of the time and era with the
tools and abilities that they'reperceived to have.
But yet it gets done. And, you know, we, we want to
(32:12):
dismiss these tremendous, just wonderful things that these
people have created to be something that was shouldn't
have happened. You know, like, therefore it has
to be something extra that help them.
You know, aliens built the pyramids.
You know, I hear that all the time, you know, and it, and it's
just a discredit to the uniqueness of the culture of the
(32:34):
persons who were there at the time, you know, So I'm going to
say that first. And, and I noticed something and
I'm, I'm, I'm going back, back to the, near the beginning of
the, the, the conversation, there was some natural
formations on the hill, on a Ridge that were perceived to be
the spies of the, the men who achieve or whatnot, you know,
(32:55):
and they're always there, you know, and that's, that's in, in
folklore, that's a natural way of describing something, you
know, and, and I, my mind went automatically to the Devil's
Tower in Wyoming. You know, this is a if you ever
saw the movie third encounter, close encounter of the third
kind. This is where the you know, the
(33:16):
the alien ship comes in home. If you haven't seen, I'd spoil
the whole movie for you, by the way, But it was made in 1978, so
you're kind of on your own anyway.
But you know, the idea that thisthis formation in native
folklore is that it was there were Indian Braves out hunting
and they they came across this giant bear of some of myth, you
know, mythological piece to thisbear.
(33:36):
I forget his name, but the running away from him, they
climbed this Mesa and the, the gouges that are in the the tower
are from the bear trying to get them, but he never could, right?
You know, So I mean, and that's the idea that that explain that,
you know, that that extra way ofexplaining a natural phenomenon
(33:57):
is fantastic because you know it, it's a great story and you
know, it's passed down and this is all oral tradition.
So it's all passed down generationally, you know, who
knows? I mean, we always say about
whisper down the lane or telephone game, whatever you
want to call it, you know, like how it may have started over
there and where it is today may not be what it what it is or
what it was, but it's still a fantastical thing, you know, and
(34:20):
it's a really cool belief that that's why that's there.
And I think that was neat because here we are a culture
that would never have contact with with us, you know, in the
mainland and especially, you know, folks up in Wyoming, the
native tribes there never would ever would have had that.
But yet we're all doing this around the world, right?
You know, in the cultures of their time.
I I. I found some reference to it.
(34:43):
I couldn't find a lot to expand on it, but the Necker Island
structures, they said that therewere two structures that they
didn't know what they did. There's some people that believe
that they were stones that are aligned with planetary objects.
Try again. So, you know, think of the I'm
drawing a blank on it now. The one in England, the stone
(35:06):
and things like that. And like on certain days they
lined up they and had thing. And so again, it's just there
are so many of these things thathappen in different places
across the world. And the question is why?
Like, how did they get the knowledge?
I mean, you can go back to the biblical stories where, you
know, we had the knowledge to dothis and then it was wiped out
(35:28):
because we, we, we took advantage of it.
So. But again, you know, there's
another text that is meant to teach lessons, you know, so.
Well, and, you know, on the backto the stonework to there, there
have been tribes that are found in the Amazon basin that never
(35:48):
have had contact with us, you know, being the civilized world
for like a better way of saying it, who have done just as much
detail work with stone and otherobjects that they shouldn't have
had access to. And the, the belief generally is
that it's because they didn't have an, a need for the, they
needed that material, not the natural resources.
(36:09):
Like there's a lot of lumber in the, in the Amazon basin.
It's it's a rainforest, you know, but here on the islands,
you know, there may not have been as much available.
So stone was more prevalent and,and they want to take down the
trees because they probably needed them for something else.
So you know, they found a way tomake the stone work happen
instead. Well, and especially if they
were coming from Polynesian islands, if if the first map of
(36:35):
Hawaii that I showed basically the the islands leading to what
we would consider mainland Hawaii.
Now those islands are all small and barren.
Like there's not a lot on them. There's there, there's no area
(36:58):
for trees or crops or anything like that.
So there's all these tiny islands that they would have hit
first if they were crossing great distances of the sea would
have been stone and rock. So it's what they would have had
to work with. And and as they probably the
population moved east, then theywere getting into things and
(37:21):
that they had trees, but they they had developed these skills
from stone because it's what they had.
Yeah. So it makes a, makes a lot of
sense if you think of it that way, because I'm sure this
migration didn't happen like, oh, we're, we're leaving Tahiti
and we're now in Kauai like. Exactly.
It didn't happen like. That it wasn't a straight line.
Yeah. Well, that, that, that takes me
to, you know, like Easter Islandand the, the Moai, you know, the
(37:46):
island, it, it had trees at one point and now it's basically
barren. And, but the statues are there,
you know, So again, they would have used the stone work to
create the, the, the obviously, I think some of this is still to
be determined what, what they'reintended for, especially as
they're positioned and facing out from the island and so
forth, you know, but there's, there's, there was nothing else
(38:09):
to use and there certainly wasn't anything large enough
like, you know, a stone, a boulder to create something
from. So, you know, you, you made it
work and that's what you used. That's just your, your medium.
And it's, you know, a lot of it is artistic as well.
So, you know, even even though they're building walls and other
pieces and they're still doing it with some decor to it, it's
(38:31):
not just stacking rocks, you know, there's intentionality to
it. So that's craftsmanship.
Right, yeah, it just, I don't know, I, I so.
Well, what do you think, Jamie? We're not going to say haunted
or not, but paranormal or not like.
Well, maybe maybe, you know, I, I have a thought on and I just
(38:53):
this is this hit me. I jotted my, my when I wrote it
down real quick. But, you know, you mentioned,
you know, this is, this is folklore, you know, and we talk
about things that are folklore all the time, But it struck me
that folklore allows for the, the expansion of belief, you
know, because it, it takes you to something that's more
fantastic than normalcy And it belief that these are, you know,
(39:20):
that, that the men at Hunay are two to three foot tall
individuals. You know, that's not unheard of.
There are pygmies in the world. There still are plenty of
tribes, you know, Australia, there's still stripes in in the
Amazon, you know, of individualswho are, we'll call him height
challenged, you know. But the belief that this tribe
was there, a tribe of this nature was there as well.
(39:43):
It's not outside the realm of possibility, you know that have
since either left by migration or have passed out of existence
by just bad luck. Or or not.
Not necessarily that though, butabsorbed into the new culture by
intermarriage and mating and things like that.
There was one discussion about how there was a mass migration
(40:07):
out of some of these islands, Kauai and stuff to Necker
islands to protect the culture. OK, so you know, and and and you
know, you start again, a lot of that, you start digging into
stories of, you know, was it a again, a story just to protect
(40:29):
the culture and, you know, prevent intermix intermarriage
and things like that. One thing I did find is that
pre, let's call it colonialization, when the
Europeans came into and started bringing their culture, their
disease, those things into the Hawaiian Islands, none of this
(40:52):
was written down. There are no journals.
There were no, you know, even even sail, like even ships that
have passed through there, therewas no stories of them, of the
Menhunae. It was only when the white
people started settling in that we started getting the stories.
(41:13):
So was it something to protect aculture?
Well, we've seen that before. So, you know, it's not unheard
of when when colonizers started arriving and it happened in the,
in, in North America as well. You know, so you're dealing with
(41:34):
people who really don't want youto be there.
So they give you this the story,you know, to hopefully scare you
away now. And, and unfortunately, you
know, these are these are peoplewho want something.
So, you know, they, they're pretty robust and don't scare
easily. They survive three months on a
ship. You know, I'm going to go as far
as I can go. You know, even even then, you
(41:57):
know, this, this, the tails didn't get people to stop.
I mean, it might have intrigued more, you know, activity and
engagement, you know, and that'sslightly disappointing, I guess,
you know, but and I I'm not second guessing history or
judging history, although I guess I am in my mind, I am just
terrible things happen to these people.
(42:19):
They're cultures and you know, so many things were destroyed
by, you know, what we'll call progress.
It's it's difficult sometimes and all of how how much because
I can't see that much of it anymore.
You know, so much of it has beenassimilated into what we are now
that, you know, there's these tales exist.
(42:39):
And I love the fact that this isoral history, you know, because
you know, it, it, it, it's again, we'll go with folklore
and how many times we have had stories that were that and, you
know, we asked the question paranormal or not, you know, it,
it makes it tougher because it is a tale.
There's no evidence, you know, but at some point you got to
(43:01):
suspend belief, you know, of, ofphysical things and just take it
on trust. And I want to believe the answer
your question, you know, on that, to step back a second.
I want to believe that, yes, this is entirely possible.
And I want to, I want to believethat there are still men who in
in the jungles and the crevices of the country and, you know,
(43:22):
the country land that they're inthat that are still there.
It's, you know, it's not unlike the Huldufolk episode, you know,
you know, I want to believe thatthey're they're they're, you
know, still working their magic,punting and not I'm not sure,
but you know, just I want to believe that.
But I, I still, if these things exist, there should be some
(43:46):
evidence by now too, right? Something.
But not not just one blurry picture from a web.
That nobody, a probable pareidelia picture, right, You
know, or a bench found in a cave, you know, where it could
be anything. You know, we're gonna hang out
for kids, you know, somebody lived nearby, Gosh knows what.
(44:07):
But you know, there should be a there should be some bones.
There should be some civil like sense of what civilization is
for us, you know, some campsite something, right?
Yeah. I don't know.
I'm stretching this but. Yeah, but but, you know, we
haven't found Bigfoot either. But we've found, we've found
proof that there may be a big, you know, it's what you know.
(44:28):
Yeah, well, again, it's what youwant to believe.
And that's, that's cool. That's the that's the fun part
of this, you know, because you and I could have totally
uniquely different opinions or either of us are wrong.
Right. Because there isn't anything to
say. We either of us are.
Right. So, yeah, it's definitely an
interesting one. Yeah.
You know, do I think that they were built overnight?
(44:49):
No, I don't think so. But it's a great story, right?
Right. And again, that's the part of it
that's really cool. Yeah, but you talked about how
progress, you know, it's a shamethat progress destroyed things
like the road. I mean, it was a horse, horse
path originally that that was built over this this aqueduct.
(45:10):
But then a road was just built and right over top of it just
because that's where that road needed to be.
Yeah. So, yeah, we, it has taken us a
long time and it's taken us a long time to remember, realize
that the importance of cultural heritage and and preserving
(45:31):
that. And sometimes we forget like
remodeling houses, like it's like, Oh well, we'll just board
that over. Well, at some point that may be
important to somebody. So you never know.
The ghost will let you know if it's if it's important.
Or not. This is true.
So it's spirit of the house. This one, yeah.
(45:55):
So so anyway that that's what I got.
It was a fun one to do. It really was thank you.
And, you know, tongue, tongue twisting aside, it was really
cool too to hear, you know, thisis this is a culture where you
don't know not until you get to invest in it.
You know, and I I agree with you.
Like I've been places around thecountry.
(46:17):
I've traveled a lot with a past career every week and you know,
not as when you're working and you know, you don't have time to
invest in the stuff that's around you.
And there's plenty of places I wish I would have spent more
time or could have spent more time, you know, But when 12 hour
days happen, you know, you don'thave much to do more with.
But you know, if there was ever that chance to go back and
(46:39):
retrace all that, I I would be all in.
I'm in for Hawaii. Whenever you are, we'll do a
research trip. Well, so we're Todd and Carmela.
Yeah, there it is, right. Yes, it they say.
Well, so when it when is the road trip via airplane to Hawaii
to do more research on the Manhune may have missed it in
Chad's talk, but if it's just folklore, who the heck came up
(46:59):
with it and started it? That's it.
There you go. Yeah, that's answer that
question and you can answer folklore all across the world, I
bet. Absolutely.
So, but yeah, it is cool. It's it's something we will
never know until that day. We do know, you know so.
(47:21):
Say you know one more time. No.
Fine, fine. All right.
Well, should we move on, Jamie? Of course.
No problem. All right, all right, so
upcoming episodes next week, I am going to explore the Brushy
Mountain State Penitentiary. Can we can we put some tongue
(47:41):
twisters in that just for the? Family, I hope not.
I hope not. You know, I don't think there
will be many. But the week after, on the on
June 17th, Chad's going to explore the hauntings of his
childhood home. And I'll tie nicely into the
June 24th episode of Gettysburg as they are, as Chad's home is 9
(48:01):
miles South or so. 7 miles. 7 miles even closer.
So there's a lot of history going through the area there.
July 1st we're going to do a season 2 wrap up.
Can you believe it's the end of the season already Channel Lake
cow and we're going to take a week off because it's summer and
we're going to Chad's going on vacation on that technically
vacation. He's going to volunteer his
camp, which I call vacation justbecause it sounds like one he's
(48:24):
going to he's going to be busy very busy all week and I don't
know how to make any of this stuff work so and we're going to
have a special episode. We're going to do something
special in the 15th when we comeback, but it won't necessarily
be US. And that's very confusing, I
know. I don't think we know how to say
what we're doing quite yet, but it's going to be uniquely
different than anything you've seen from us before.
(48:45):
It's a collaboration evening, somore details on that coming up
in the next couple weeks. Yeah, Todd and Carmelo won at
least one or two tongue twisters.
I'll see what I can do. I'll have my people look into
it. All right.
And then coming up for opportunities, the Haunted
(49:06):
Crescent Horror and Paracon event is coming up on June 28th
out at Crescent Haunted Crescentin mid state.
So we're going to be there at the team.
Chad and I and I believe some others from Jotnick's paranormal
will be there for the day. We'll have some stuff to share
and just, you know, kind of grant grant some awareness about
the the podcast and what our team does Rep in our home and at
(49:29):
the Boobies Brewery in Mount Joy, PA as well.
That whole day is filled with cool stuff.
So if you're anywhere nearby or even if you're not plan for it,
you got a couple weeks to figureout how to get there.
And there is an evening investigation of the Crescent
site as well, which is a massivesprawling location with all
kinds of cool stuff. So come for the day, stay for
(49:51):
the investigation. Yeah, it's not on our list of
things that we're doing, Jamie, but I got invited to the DOS
House thing, which is the week before that.
My first, yes, that's aware. So that's the creeper real
event. Yeah, if you if you would.
And we talked to Shawna, I believe from the DOS house a
couple weeks ago. Great, great person.
(50:11):
I'd love to go. I don't think I can make it
work. But if if you can, if you can go
out and see Shawna. It's on my calendar actually, so
I'm going to try. OK, so all.
Right. Let's slide over one more.
I got this. All right.
So no, I can't, can't seem to get that one right.
OK, back it up. There we go.
So so for us with dot Next Paranormal again coming up on
(50:34):
June 28th, we'll be at Haunted Crescent Sanatorium and the
prison for their horror and Paracon on the 26th of July.
It's a little ways off actually,but we have another public
investigation of Boobies Brewerysame on August 16th, September
27th, October 11th and October 18th.
Tickets are actually moving for these events already.
So we always say don't wait tillthe last minute because they
(50:56):
unfortunately do sell out and weare limited on capacity.
But if you're all at all in the Mount Joy, PA area, any of these
dates, you're welcome to come investigate with us.
It's always an exciting, fun time.
And if you've never done it before, we'll teach you how.
That's what we do. All right, And finally, to wrap
up on all of us, there's the social media stuff, but we can
(51:18):
find us all. You found us here tonight, at
least on YouTube because unfortunately we had a challenge
with Facebook and we apologize those who normally try to find
us there. But we will be on the streaming
services of Spotify, Apple Podcast, Audible and so forth
tomorrow and a few others. I'm sure I'm missing something
there, but we have a Facebook page for the team.
We have a TikTok and Instagram, of course, YouTube where most of
(51:41):
you are finding us right now. And then also there is a link
tree for all of that good stuff.And that font is way too small
for me to read chat, so I'm sorry I'm not going to.
It's it's link linktr dot EE andthen back slash paranormal lens.
Paranormal lens. Perfect.
And then of course, you know, with with us, if you have an
episode you'd like to see us do or something else to cover for
(52:06):
you, you can always e-mail us atparanormallenspodcast@gmail.com.
We will both get that now. Thank you, Chad.
And we're always interested in doing listener submissions.
This was one of them tonight with Manahune.
We have a few others coming up later in later being in Season 3
season. Three, we were we were renewed.
(52:28):
Yeah, we, we, well, we ruined ourselves.
So, OK, no one said no yet. So let's go.
But you know, it, it, it's our pleasure to to tackle the topics
that you're interested in hearing.
Just let us know. That's what we do.
So of course, we're going to find our own topics too.
So it's thanks for coming along for the ride and, and making
this all fun for us to do. We appreciate it, You know, two
(52:50):
seasons already. Holy cow, I'll be a little more
misty eyed when we get to the end the next couple episodes, I
guess, but which was was also Speaking of that, when we get to
the wrap up, you know, we're asking folks to give us a give
us a short list of your favoriteepisodes from the season, some
things to think through and talkabout Chad, your, your homework
in mind, as well as to come up with maybe 5 or so your favorite
(53:11):
episodes. And let's go back to Season 1 if
we want to, I guess, anything. We've.
Got is like 105 episodes out there now so there's plenty to
choose from. I, I think I'm going to have to
say Menahune is is that's prettyhigh up the list for me.
I enjoyed that one even though Icouldn't say one of the words
correctly at all. But.
You know, well, you know it, it's, it's funny how that works.
(53:34):
Like they're all my favorites. I really mean that.
I've enjoyed every one of these.But you know, it always seems to
me like the last one we did was my favorite one because that's
the freshest 1. You know, it's the one right to
mind anyway, But you know, it's,it's easy, but you know, you
can't pick a favorite because they're like your kids.
You're not allowed to do that out loud, right?
Yeah. Well, as always, thanks
(53:58):
everybody for for tuning in whether you're caught us tonight
here on on the live broadcast. You're going to catch up to us
later on on the streaming services again, leave us a
comment. Hopefully, if if you whatever
application you're on, if there's a way to leave a review,
please do leave some stars. We we hope we've earned 5, but
you know, I understand if it's something less, whatever it may
(54:18):
be, let us know. It helps us understand how we're
doing, what we're what we're up to.
You know, for for you guys are catching from us.
So and it means love the feedback.
We appreciate it. It's all good.
It's all good stuff. So all right.
All right, so next week, Brushy Mountain.
Yep. And a tongue twister maybe or
two, who knows. So and thanks again for tonight,
(54:41):
we'll see y'all soon. Yep.
All right. Good night, everybody.
Have a great week and we'll talkto you soon.
All right.
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