May 14, 2025 • 53 mins
🏛️ Paranormal Lens Podcast – Season 2, Episode 41: The Morris-Jumel Mansion 👻
In this week’s episode of Paranormal Lens, host Jamie Widener takes us deep into the rich history and spectral stories surrounding The Morris-Jumel Mansion, one of New York City’s oldest—and most haunted—residences.
From Revolutionary War strategy sessions to ghostly apparitions still said to roam its halls, this mansion has seen it all. And while Jamie shares his research and chilling tales, co-host Chad Thomas listens in with fresh ears, knowing absolutely nothing about the location—making for a fun and fascinating conversation as he reacts in real time.
🎧 Available afterward on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!
Join us for a journey through time, tragedy, and the supernatural as we uncover what still lingers in the walls of this historic home.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:33):
The. Good evening and welcome to this
week's episode. My gosh, Chad, I can't talk.
I've been 3-3 words in and I'm bumbling already.
Holy cow. This week's episode of
Paranormal Lens presented by Jiotnik's Paranormal Guys.
Hey, it's Jamie Walker here. That's Chad Thomas over there.
(00:56):
We're back. Chad, how's your week?
Do you know how I've been? It's not a summer question.
You know how I've been really busy at work?
Yes, yes, it's almost done. I mean it's like like the the
show is tomorrow so we can't addanything after then.
Oh boy. So it's there, it's there.
(01:19):
So what do you do when when thisis all done, What do you do?
Walk around and with a cup of coffee and just kind of point at
stuff and tell people to do stuff again or.
We don't know what to do becausewe've gone from 100 miles an
hour till like 2, so I. Hope you get a window of
enjoyment. At least the shop is very clean
right now. Let's put it that.
(01:39):
Way it's very bare as well. Yes, exactly.
So it is so, so it might, you know, it's been, it's been a
good week. I got a lot going on.
But you know, we had Mother's Day this weekend.
So, but how's your week been? It's, it's been, it's been the
same. It was, it was a lot of busy
activity in my like my work weekwas busy.
(01:59):
This week started off hectic. Today was kind of calm, which is
great. You know, Mother's Day did
happen. So again, if we missed you on
Mother's Day, happy Mother's Dayto everybody out there, you
know, and we had some we're in the decision process time now
with college kid. Did you know?
And decisions are getting made, housing is getting established,
(02:21):
some review of of like course selection and that kind of stuff
is starting to happen. So it's coming together well,
even out of high school yet. Yeah, and and Jamie, we we
forgot there was a prom in there.
Not for us. Yeah, there was a prom in there
and, and pictures and all that fun stuff and post prom.
And post prom and and the trip to the north, yeah, as well,
(02:44):
yeah. A lot of driving and this this
week is a choral concert. And the answer is it's it's that
end of the year spring. We're doing everything too like
the this the final one for for the for Zoe.
And it's amazing, you know how we all got here.
So wow, time flies. Well, Speaking of Speaking of
(03:08):
time flying by, let's talk abouttonight's episode.
Let's do that. There's a lot of time has flown
by, and so tonight we're going to talk about the Morris Jumel
Mansion. Do you know where this is, Chad?
New York was the only thing I know about it.
All right, New York City, that'scorrect.
It is in present day Manhattan and it is technically in
(03:30):
Washington Heights, so I'm not going to sing anything from the
musical for you, I promise. Appreciate that well.
You know, I I might. I might now.
You said it like that. It wasn't.
And and. You know, I know better.
I know better. One I've seen a few times, so
thanks to Disney Plus. But you know, Manhattan is today
(03:51):
a built up super place, right? New York City in general,
everything is just massive. It's the largest city in the
country. It's one of the largest cities
in the world. But back in the day it was not.
So let's go back to 1765 turn onour way back machine and looking
at an area there on this map that is the southern end of
(04:15):
Manhattan is is what is what would be New York City at the
time. And where we are is the very top
edge of the map up in the nowhere lands 11 miles to the
north. So country, farm lands, hills,
rocky outcrops, all kinds of nature, you know, fresh air or
fresh water, things you were notfinding in the tightly packed
(04:37):
city that is or at least was NewYork back then.
So. But let's talk about the mansion
itself. And this is from
morrisjumel.com. As the oldest surviving house in
Manhattan, the Morris Jumel Mansion has borne witness to
much of New York City's rich anddiverse history.
Built in 1765 for the Morris family, the original property,
(04:58):
located on the ancestral homeland of the Lenape people,
compromises 50 modern city blocks.
The house would later serve as the headquarters for General
George Washington as well as theBritish military and Hessian
troops during the American Revolution.
After serving as a Tavern TavernSorry for a number of years,
Stephen and Eliza Jamel purchased the house in 1810 and
(05:21):
embarked in a series of major renovations reflective of
contemporary 19th century tastes.
Thanks to the stewardship of thelast private owners of the
property, Ferdinand and Lily Earl, the home became a museum
in 19 O 4. The mid 20th century saw the
neighborhood develop into a vibrant home to many artists and
celebrities from the Harlem Renaissance, including Paul
(05:43):
Robertson, Jackie Robinson, Thurgood Marshall, and Duke
Ellington, who once referred to the Morris Jumel Mansion as the
jewel in the crown of today. The mansion and its neighboring
buildings are part of the Jamel Terrace Historic District.
Because of this, the appearance of the immediate neighborhood
has changed very little since the beginning of the 20th
century. The Landmarks Preservation
(06:05):
Commission designated the MorrisJamel Mansion as an individual
landmark in 1967 and an interiorlandmark in 1975.
The mansion was listed in the National Register of Historic
Places in 1966. The mansion is a member of the
Historic House Trust of New YorkCity.
A. Little bit of stuff there.
(06:26):
Going back, let's get into the deeper history.
What we now refer to as the Morris Jamel Mansion was
constructed around 1765 as a summer residence for British
Colonel Rodger Morris and his wife Mary Phillips Morris and
their children. The home named Mount Morris, of
course. Why wouldn't it be Mount Morris,
right Name Stuff after themselves was possibly
(06:49):
constructed by enslaved laborerswhom the Morris is owned or
rented from other enslavers. These individuals may have
worked alongside free black workers, indentured servants,
and other hired labor. The wealth of Anglo Dutch Harris
Mary Phillips afforded the home to be built with progressive
architectural details and modernconveniences and allow for the
purchase of over 100 acres of land from what is likely 100.
(07:12):
What is today's, I'm sorry, likely today's 159th to 174th
streets. This land.
Lemon Hawk, lemon, lemon. I cannot say my own writing.
Oh my gosh, Dad. Terrible.
Once again, Le Nape Hoking is the ancestral home of Le Nape
people. Colonel Morris, who was a
Loyalist, fought in the French and Indian Wars alongside George
(07:34):
Washington and under General Edward Braddock.
After his retirement from the British Army in 1764, Morris
wanted a summer home that would be a bucolic refuge from the
congestion of the downtown city.So we had the the house built in
the northern part of Manhattan. At the time, the city of New
York, which ended at today's Chambers Street, was located 11
(07:55):
miles South of the house. At the time, the Upper Manhattan
consisted of farm lands, forestsand rocky outcroppings and had
cleaner water and fresher air than the southern tip of the
island. This Georgian Palladian home
with symmetrical proportions andclassic details was erected on
land acquired once owned by Jacob Dykman, an early Dutch
colonizer inspired by contemporary British residences.
(08:18):
The mansion was possibly inspired by the architectural
designs of Morris's father and uncle, who were both architects.
It features very progressive architectural elements for the
time and location, including a large dominating portico, a
serving alcove in the dining room, and an octagonal shaped
wing which was among the first of its kind constructed in the
colonies seat. At the top was what was the
(08:41):
second highest point on Manhattan Island.
The house provided unprecedentedviews including the Harlem and
Hudson Rivers, present day Westchester County, and as far
South as Staten Island. Mary Phillips Morris was a
descendant of a prosperous old Dutch colonial family named
Phillips, whose estate was located further north along the
Hudson River. The Phillips family made their
(09:03):
fortune in the slave trade and were among the largest enslavers
in Colonial New York. The Morris family lived in town
in what was today downtown Manhattan on Stone St. during
much of the year, spending theirsummer months at Mount Morris.
1975 British Colonel Morris, a Loyalist, left the London to
avoid bringing attention to the Morris family during the
turbulent Early Revolutionary times.
(09:25):
His wife, along with four of their five children and
servants, most likely included enslaved people, traveled to
Philips Manor, Lower Mills in 1776, now known as Philips Manor
Hall in Yonkers, to escape the escalating conflict of war.
Colonel Morris returned in the colonies in December of 1777 and
presumably stayed in lower Manhattan with his family.
(09:47):
He eventually served as Inspector of Claims for Refugees
for the British Army in New Yorkfrom 1779 until 1786.
Let's think about the Revolutionary War for a second.
On September 15th, 1776, GeneralGeorge Washington occupied the
abandoned house with his officers and domestic staff
after the Continental Army's retreat from Brooklyn after
(10:08):
losing a battle. The elevated location and size
of the house made it ideal as a military headquarters during the
Revolutionary War. The Battle of Harlem Heights
occurred on September 16th, 1776just South of the house in the
area known as the Manhattan Valley near today's Columbia
University campus, and was the first battle where the British
retreated from the Continental Army.
(10:29):
Washington remained in residencefor approximately 5 weeks and
used the second story of the octagonal room of it as his
office. It is believed that Washington
slept in what is now the WilliamChase bedroom on the 2nd floor
with this enslaved valet WilliamLee in close proximity.
After Washington departed, the mansion at various times became
the headquarters for other troops until Evacuation day in
(10:50):
1783, including English General Sir Henry Clinton and later
auxiliary German mercenary soldiers known as Hessians, who
are under the command of Baron von Klipson.
The mansion is among the few remaining structures in the
nation to house all sides duringthe conflict.
History At the end of the war, Mary Morris was one of only
(11:12):
three women accused of treason in New York, and the property
was confiscated as a result of the New York's Legislative Act
of Attainder in 1779, which was written by Mary's cousin John
Jay. The house and Lamb were then
sold to help offset the large war debt incurred by the
Americans. Between 1783 and 1810, the house
was used briefly as a Tavern, a Stagecoach, Stagecoach stop, and
(11:35):
as an inn for travellers before being largely abandoned.
The surrounding acreage was usedby tenant farmers in July of
1790, where President Washingtonvisited the house with some
members of his future cabinet and their wives and families for
a formal, lavish meal on the surrounding grounds.
Among the guests were Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Abigail
(11:56):
Adams, Alexander Hamilton, ElizaSkyler Hamilton, Martha
Washington, Henry Knox and Lucy Knox.
Washington wrote about the visitin his journals and described
the house as being in possessionof a common farmer at the time,
doing pretty well for himself. Here comes a change.
(12:16):
So 20 years after Washington's dinner, the house was purchased
by the Jamel family. Stephen Jamel, a French wine
merchant and his well established importer of and a
well established importer of luxury goods, married American
Eliza Bowen in 18 O 4-6 years later, in 1810, the couple
purchased Mount Morris along with its acreage.
Eliza grew up in poverty in Rhode Island and was largely
(12:38):
self educated, becoming float inFrench later in their marriage.
She proved to be an astute businesswoman who managed the
Jamel's real estate deals. Despite her wealth, it seemed as
though he, she, and Steven were never fully accepted into the
highest echelons of New York society due to their humble and
immigrant origins. After purchasing the house, the
Jamel has embarked upon a need of renovation to modernize and
(12:59):
repair the residence, which havebeen abandoned for nearly 30
years. Some of the most substantial
alterations included the remodeling, expansion of the
porch, the extension of the balcony, widening of the
entrance portal, and the inclusion of new side lights and
a fashionable fan window containing the stained glass
Roundel seen today is also through the thought.
(13:20):
At this time, access was given to the Widow's Walk and the
space in the third floor porticobecame an additional living
quarters. Much of the decorative 18th
century woodwork in the parlor, library, and two bed chambers
were removed. The redecorating campaign of the
1820s included the purchase of asuite of furniture commissioned
for the Octagon Room by ScottishAmerican cabinet maker Duncan
(13:41):
Fife. Stephen died in 1832, and Eliza
married her second husband, the former vice president Aaron
Burr. Cue the booze on that one.
Right in our house, anyway, in the home's front parlor.
In 1833, Eliza Jamel filed for adivorce four months after the
marriage and hired Alexander Hamilton Junior as one of her
(14:04):
attorneys handling the divorce. Burr passed away in Staten
Island in a Staten Island rooming house.
The day of the divorce was to befinalized in 1836.
Eliza never remarried but did continue her aspirations to be
part of New York society. She converted the mansion into
her primary residence and summered in fashionable
Saratoga, NY. While in Saratoga in 1841, Eliza
(14:26):
hired Free American, African American, and Northup to be her
cook in New York City. Northup's husband Solomon had
been abducted and sold into slavery in the South, and this
was recounted in his memoir, 12 Years as a Slave.
Missus Northup and her three children lived with, with, and
worked for Eliza and her man, her family, at the mansion.
(14:50):
When Eliza died on July 16th, 1865, she left the estate to her
sister's children. A highly contentious and
publicized battle over the estate ensued and lasted for 17
years, ultimately reaching the Supreme Court.
Through it all, the home was sold in 1887.
In 1889, the home became the residence of an early French
photographer and filmmaker, Augustine Le Prince and his
(15:12):
family. Le Prince was a trained chemist
and inventor who rented the mansion with the intentions of
debuting the first moving motionpicture at the residence.
However, in 1890, Le Prince and the film disappeared before the
film could be publicly shown. His family remained at the house
for a short time after while pursuing the circumstances of
his disappearance, but Leprince was never found.
(15:36):
As a side note to that, some believe that Thomas Edison may
have had a hand in Prince's disappearing as he was also
about to unveil his motion picture around the same time.
Coincidence. Maybe.
Maybe. And then General Ferdinand Earl
and his wife Lily and their children resided in the home
from 1894 until 19 O3, referringto the estate as Earl Cliff.
(15:59):
Following Ferdinand's death in 19 O3, Lily campaigned for the
home to be preserved as a historic site, and the City of
New York purchased a building and almost 2 acres for $235,000.
And lastly, today the mansion and its neighboring buildings
are part of the Jamel Terrace Historical District due to the
structures historic significancerepresentations of housing for
(16:21):
three centuries. The Mansion, a member of the
Historic House Trust of New YorkCity, was listed in the National
Register of Historic Places in 1966, followed by its
designation as an individual landmark in 1967, an interior
landmark in 1975 by New York City's Landmark Preservation
Commission. During the bicentennial
(16:41):
celebrations of 1776, Queen Elizabeth the Second visited the
mansion and toured the grounds in historic gardens.
Anyone else find it out that theQueen of England came over to
help us celebrate the beating ofher country and her narrow
independence? Seems, seems kind of wonky.
All right. And here's a fun fact that was
was I shared this with members of our household last night.
(17:05):
In 2014, writer and composer LinManuel Miranda sat in
Ehrenberg's bed chamber and wrote songs for his hit musical
Hamilton. That's sort of cool.
Yeah. The mansion today serves as a
community space featuring uniquearts, theater and education for
educational programming to connect the history of the house
and its inhabitants to the present.
(17:26):
It's a lot of stuff, right? Yeah, a lot of information real
fast. A lot of historical names there.
Yeah, a lot of people, right. And the names we all know and
know and you know, if we well students of history know pretty
well and including, you know, John Jay, which is a signer of
declaration, the Washingtons, Hamiltons, Thomas Jefferson,
(17:49):
etcetera. So that's that's a lot of
history, but that's not a lot ofparanormal stuff, right.
And this is paranormal ends. After all, I'm expecting
something. Jamie, you're not rapping here.
I could. I could, but no, we will not.
So let's talk about the paranormal claims.
So from New York City haunts.com.
As you can ascertain from the above, the Mars Jamel mansion
(18:11):
has seen a lot of history and a lot of tragedy in its many
years. Such houses tend to lend
themselves to being the sites ofhauntings, and this one is no
exception. Many of the rumoured hauntings
come from Aaron Burr's former bedroom.
Having died shortly after his divorce from Jamel, the old
founding father may be trying toget another shot with his lost
love. Or maybe he's just after the
(18:31):
money he could get his hands on while alive.
Either way, many have reported hearing disembodied voices and
creaking footsteps from that room, with the sounds occurring
after hours. Unlike many sightings, the
Morris Jumel Mansion has some evidence to support his
paranormal claims. A paranormal investigator who
has investigated the mansion hasa video clip of a strange
disembodied voice. The mansion staff are split on
(18:54):
what the voice is saying. As we almost always are, right?
I think it's, I think it's that,well, some claim it to hear it
saying I love you, while others think it's saying they're
laughing at you. I'm sure the only word that's
clear in there is you, right? So if there's a likely culprit
for the voices, it would be Eliza Jamel.
(19:14):
Most people who come away from aghostly encounter at the mansion
describe some of them watching Eliza's description.
She is typically dressed in white 18th century dress and is
quite the chatty spirit, once yelling at visitor visiting
school children to shut up. Some also claim that her
presence causes other ghosts to fight over her, namely her two
former husbands. The museum staff maintains a
(19:37):
record of all of these mysterious encounters, known as
the Book of Haunts. Also, people have reported
another strange experience for the mansion that doesn't involve
a ghost. Instead, it's a seemingly
regular looking clock inside thedining room.
Regular looking, save for the moon decoration that covers the
clock's face. The clock is known to be a bit
of a flirt, and the moon will wink and handsome men when they
(20:00):
pass by. But don't worry if it doesn't
wink at you, it doesn't always feel flirty.
OK all. Right, let's road trip it.
Let's go. Let's get it now from USUS
ghostadventures.com Visitors to the mansion turned museum report
hearing footsteps where there shouldn't be any knocking on
walls and doors, voices yelling,and strange static electricity
(20:23):
pulsing through the air. There are claims that a Hessian
soldier died on the stairs at the mansion has been seen at or
near them ever since. An American Revolutionary War
soldier has been seen patrollingthe second floor outside General
Washington's former office soon after Eliza's death in 1865.
She was first seen in a weight gown laundering the property and
(20:43):
crying. But these days she's grown weary
of the home and is more likely to yell at passerby's and
children. And here's another version of
the tale of the students being told to shut up.
A group of school children were waiting in line to get into the
mansion for a tour. An elderly woman came out onto
the 2nd floor balcony and told them to be quiet but a member of
(21:04):
the museum staff. Finally, at the kids inside,
they asked about the woman on the 2nd floor.
However, that single staff member was the only one inside
the home at the time. Now, being told to be quiet and
told to shut up are two different things, right?
So. Yes, very, very different
things. So Jamie here, a quick comment
from Heather here. Do you think Captain Isaac
(21:24):
Higginfoot from the show goes tothe house?
You hang out with all those guys.
You might be what you might be hanging out there too.
You know, he's not that far awaydown in where where is that show
in? It's in PA.
He might you never know. So going back a little bit
further, Stephen Jamel's death was shrouded in mystery.
(21:45):
His spirit is said to appear with a facial wound from his
carriage accident 1 and he he died believably.
He died in an accident with a a carriage horse carriage.
One member reported feeling in an inexplicably cold spot in
Stevens former room, followed bythe sensation of an unseen hand
(22:05):
touching her shoulder. He couldn't let this part of it
pass by. Chad Hans Holzer, along with
medium Ethel Johnson Myers investigated the mansion on 2
occasions. During a seance, Stephen came
forward and claimed that Eliza had murdered him by opening
wounds he suffered in an accident with a pitchfork.
He claimed she stood by and watched as he bled to death.
(22:27):
And that's something, yeah. It's something like to come back
and. Wow, accuse somebody of your
murder. Yes, that's that's that's deep.
Now with all that aside, there'salso the a belief that he may
have died of pneumonia too. So here we have a wide spectrum,
right? Anywhere from, you know,
pneumonia to getting pushed off a moving carriage to be, you
(22:49):
know, getting stabbed with a pitchfork.
So also proof that there were very, very, very poor records at
the time. Exactly.
So another Isabella, a servant girl, reportedly took her life
in the mansion. Her presence is often felt in
the servants quarters in the back entrance, where she's been
seen sobbing uncontrollably. In one instant, a visitor claims
(23:11):
to have seen a woman's figure falling from a height and
screaming before disappearing. Another version of this is that
Isabella became pregnant to the son of a former owner and when
discovered, he abandoned her, leading to her suicide.
So if you go, and I encourage you do, there are public
paranormal investigations. These are guided events.
(23:34):
They're usually 7:00 to 9:30 in the evening, so not terribly
late, something we can all manage.
You can also book a private paranormal investigation.
It's also 2 1/2 hours, but it starts later and it must
conclude by midnight because this is a working museum.
And in the spooky season months of September and October, there
are candlelight ghost tours thatare also guided.
(23:54):
Not real candles for fear of burning the house down, but you
get a guided tour with candles running around.
Information and all events can be found at
morrisgmail.com/program/paranormal.And I have a slide of that
running three years somewhere. So in conclusion is worthy to
(24:15):
note that New York City rumor mill claimed Eliza Jamel killed
her husband several different ways including pushing him from
a moving carriage, poisoning him, burying him alive, blah
blah blah. Regardless of how Stephen Jamel
died, he left a hefty fortune toEliza.
Is believed that after her divorce from Aaron Burr, she
became a recluse and eventually suffered from dementia.
(24:36):
She spent her last years drifting through the mansion,
her heroin kept and her clothes soiled, perhaps haunted by her
past actions. Given its long history and
defined turmoil, I find it hard to believe that Morris Jamel
Mansion is not an active place. I'm really looking forward to
going and finding out. Do you have a date booked,
Jamie? Not yet, not yet, but I have a
(24:57):
thought about it. Let's let's cite some sources
and then we'll discuss. So obviously Morris, jamel.com,
New York City, ghost.com, US ghostadventures.com,
realhaunts.com, our good friendsat atlasobscura.com.
So Chad, when are we going? I don't know but it sounds like
(25:22):
an interesting place. Other ones to know if you've
been there. I have not and I'm, I'm mad.
I'm mad about this. So I was in New York City back
in December. Everybody, we all went up, you
know, the kids, Steph, I, grandma, they went to see stuffs
on Broadway. I had the afternoon, morning,
afternoon all to myself. And I was thinking where should
I go? And I realized where this was,
(25:44):
you know, from from where Broadway is to where the mansion
is, is 12 city blocks, 13 blocks, which is a long way.
And, you know, I had to get a get a Uber, get a cab, whatever.
And I had a window of time that was this much.
So instead, I drifted off and I went over to like, Rockefeller
Center, you know, all that it did was.
Christmas thing, Yeah, yeah. It was Christmas, you know, all
(26:05):
that touristy crap. I wish I would have, would have
done it instead, because the show went longer than I thought
it would. You know, I, I want to be
outside for like 4 hours, which in December New York City is, is
a wind tunnel of frozen this youknow, couldn't feel my fingers
after a while blah blah blah. I had time I think, I think I
(26:26):
had time. And if I go back, if we go when
we go back and we will, I will do it for sure.
Then if I don't get there beforeit was that or go the other way
South to the Ghostbusters Firehouse.
So, you know, they're both in Manhattan.
So, but this isn't, this isn't Manhattan.
Like we know it. You know, it is truly north.
(26:46):
And that's part of the problem. Like for me at least on that day
was it was so far away that I just couldn't get the distance
figured out and the timing. So, you know, it is definitely
Uptown and I think in the time, you know, this would have been
pretty cool, you know, with the country laying layer that it was
not, you know, now it's all city.
It's nothing like, you know, it's just right now the house
(27:08):
looks, it's kind of like, I'm going to say this to be very
loose with my comment, but it's kind of like Graceland in
Memphis. You know, when it was built back
in the 50s and 60s, whatever it was, you know, it was a stately
home on the edge of town, but now it's right next to a
highway. Right, it was rural, but now
it's not. Yeah, and this is this is that,
you know, not, not to compare the two and not to be, you know,
(27:31):
disparaging either way, but you know it, it was stately in its
time. You know, it's got a it's got a
gate in the front. It's got a, you know, the whole
kind of big wrap around it. 100 had 100 acres.
I mean, that's a lot of land. You know what that is worth
today is amazing for the city rates so.
Well, but, but that wasn't typical for houses, like for
(27:52):
estates in that time, Sure, which, you know, we, we think of
it, you know, it was a time of you either had you had things or
you didn't have things in this country.
And and so land owners owned a lot of land and you know, they
had people working for them. And that's what one of, that's
what this was, Jim says. It's an amazing, amazing house
(28:14):
with an amazing story. What history and mystery.
Thanks for acknowledging it. Thanks for saying that, Jim.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
And Bert said it looks beautifulinside.
Yeah, and then Bert's next comment is why I'm laughing.
Which one? This one?
Only two hours and 52 minutes from our house.
(28:36):
Let's go. Hey, well, and I don't know if
you saw this, but Bert said I'lldrive.
So. So there you go.
Yeah. And as long as we can take the
new bike, right? So anyway, it, it, it does seem
like a there's a lot, like you said, there's a lot of there's a
lot of energy history, all that there, Jamie.
So I don't see why why why it wouldn't be.
(29:00):
Agreed. Yeah, well, I mean, Eliza Jamal
alone, you know, without the, the Morrises and their, you
know, the, the, the builders, you know, like they're the ones
that designed this house and, and it was their thing.
You know, there's some negative circumstances for their, from
their losing control of the home.
You know, the, the Espionage Actor the Trader Act, whatever it
was, you know, being, being accused of treason, that's
(29:21):
that's heavy, that's significant.
And having the property taken from you, you know it's enough
to leave. Leave us, you know, some
negative energy behind. Right.
And then to have it sold to pay debts of war like.
In a in a country that you weren't supporting, right?
There, that's powerful there. I mean, some other things I
picked up from from your information is you never think
(29:45):
of, well, I shouldn't say you never, you don't typically think
of New York City or State as a big slaver.
Right. Yeah, I, I that's, I want to
make sure that was commented on.Yeah, like it just it the the
fact that the the owners of thiswere some of the largest slavers
(30:06):
in the in the country or the in the in New York at least.
It's just that's another amazingpoint.
So. And Bird says it's even older
as, as Indian land or Native American land.
Yeah, it's just, yeah, there's just, again, so much history, so
much energy and, and I mean, youknow, that area was really
(30:27):
important to the Native Americans.
Absolutely. And then in this, this being a
high point, you know, was was a key strategic location for a lot
of reasons as well. Mm hmm.
The other thing that 2 two things here that are glad that
(30:47):
have been done Washington and his journaling.
He he did so much journaling like it.
It seems like he and Alexander Hamilton could have written
books and books and books and books.
Well, he did. Well, yeah.
(31:08):
Yeah, I mean. But you would say that it was
like they're writing, like they're running out of time.
Yeah, exactly. Like there might be a song
there, Jamie, we could, we should look into that.
But the other thing is the preservation societies, the fact
that this land, I mean, and, andobviously there's no way you
could preserve 200 acres or 100 acres or whatever it was all,
(31:29):
all those city blocks. But the fact that this and and
the two acres around it, I thinkyou said are were preserved.
Yeah, there's, there's a, there's a, you know, a greenery
around it, but just really. Yeah.
To that there's, I came across an, an aerial view that it
didn't include really didn't go in context, but there's like an
(31:49):
apartment building like a block away, you know, like a high rise
apartment building. And it's, it looks so it's not
new. It's probably like a 70s or 80s
building, you know, but it's even that looks so out of place
in this in the line, you know, the sight line, you know, it's
on the other end of whatever the, the, the, the historic
(32:11):
district is. So it's, you know, it's good to
be done, but it just looks wonky, you know, and I, I grew
up in Columbia, PA and, and I grew up in the historical
district and, you know, there islike the Wrights Ferry mansion
on 2nd St. second and Cherry, essentially.
I grew up on Cherry Street, the 1st house.
All of those homes are like these big places, these big
(32:34):
houses and mansions, if you will.
I want to call it Texan. That sounds pompous, but with
these really big houses all along 2nd St. as well and that
that was work to be saved. You know, like those homes were
sometimes some of them got broken into apartments and
there's no before anything can be done about it.
But you know, a lot of those arestill single family homes and
(32:54):
it's amazing, you know, looking at that and then going a couple
blocks away and you've got, you know, row homes, you know, that
were needed for workers to work the, the river commerce sections
of like the, the industry that we had.
And then also the canals and so forth that were bringing goods
up and down the Susquehanna. So, you know, it's, it's so
amazing to me. I, and that's a very small scale
(33:15):
versus New York City. I'm not trying to compare, but
I, I have that in my, you know, like that vision, like that,
that would, my house could be that house for them if somebody,
if something else would have been there instead of us, you
know, like people lived in Colombia and Colombia only
missed being the nation's capital by one vote back in the
day. Mr. Washington Punk.
(33:36):
What's he know anyway? So what do you think?
Haunted, not haunted. Paranormal activity.
Oh yeah. I I think there, yeah, there has
to be paranormal activity there,you know, some of that, you
know, were you surprised that there's a woman yelling at, you
know, students when they're being noisy?
No. You know, she wants to keep her
(33:59):
house in order. Like, you know, children should
be seen and not heard as well asthe what you know from her day,
I'm sure. Have you ever said that to your
kids? I don't think so.
I'm going. To I'm going to go try.
One will just stare at you. No, not speaking.
(34:20):
It's not not, yeah, they don't care.
But there was an error when you're right absolutely correct.
And you know, that that also could be, you know, if if we're
talking, we don't know what era Eliza is in, in the time of, of
her presence there, but it was if it's near end of life, you
know, she's dealing with dementia.
(34:41):
And you know, the the idea that there's intrusion, then there's
a lot of things that come with that.
Yeah. Oh, very cool.
Let's define. I am, I'm we might be neighbors
depending on which block you are.
So I'm on the 200 block, or was anyway.
Not anymore. Unfortunately, it's not very
cool. So yeah, it's definitely,
(35:05):
definitely an interesting history.
And I'm, I'm sure there's, there's a residual activity
there as well. It just, yeah, there's, there's
got to be so much energy there. Yeah, just.
Just just to be a family on the wall there in in any of these
time periods, you know, there was so much that had to happen
(35:25):
like when you know, when the allthe all the signers, the
declaration that you talked about were they're having just a
dinner because there was available to do that and just.
Yeah, they, they right. Just to sit in and eavesdrop on
some of that conversation and understanding.
Well, the the house has been on a lot of shows, so if anybody's
(35:48):
really, truly interested in exploring it, more Ghost
Adventures have been there. Their hosierophiles have been
there and a few others. I'm drawing a blank
unfortunately. But you know, if you Google it,
you know, if you go to YouTube and Google or STML Mansion,
you'll find a lot of episodes of, of people and places who've
been there. So, you know, I, I think we need
(36:09):
to figure out how to get there and do it for ourselves as their
team too. So I'm proposing, you know, an
opportunity maybe for next year.I know this year's calendar is
kind of full, but that's something I think we can, we can
look forward to and make it happen.
So it's reasonably. Close.
You know 3 hour drive give or take from us here in South
Central PA. We have a few friends in
(36:31):
Northern New Jersey, New York City area so see if they were
come along as well. Yeah.
Did you have any information on how, like how, how many people
can investigate or? 1010 A-Team of 10.
OK, that's that's the that seemsto be the normal number.
It's a safe number, right? Yeah.
It is a very tight window from the sounds of. 11 would be too
many. But you said a two and a 2 1/2
(36:56):
hour investigation because they'll be out of there.
I mean, I understand it's an active museum and staff doesn't
want to be there all night and. Yeah, there may, there may be
abilities like I don't know whattime the start is though, so
that, that private investigationseems like it could start sooner
if there's not a an open event in front of it.
So we'll see. I know Burt and Heather are
(37:17):
here. So I'm here's my thought when I
said I have a thought about how to do this.
And I know you know, Chad, you're in this too, but we're
all heading to Vermont in a couple weeks, couple, well, a
couple months, two months. New York City is on the way
there and on the way back. But I'm not on that trip.
That's right. OK, well Lynches, I'm talking to
(37:37):
you then. Anybody else go along with us?
That might be a stopping on the way home anyway, maybe a good
stop point. So like a pause point, you know,
a little bit a little bit of a detour to the east perhaps, but
the way I normally go to Vermont.
But I'm I'm curious to think maybe we could so, yeah, could
be could be get the museum tour at least.
(37:58):
Yeah, gets more information. We'll Recon on it.
And you know, Chad, you know, aswell as anybody we we like did
Fort Mifflin during the day double for bird.
Thank you. You know, we were at Fort
Mifflin back in about a year agonow.
Gosh, in the daytime and and we had, you know, just a little bit
of light equipment with us and we got activity and it was quite
(38:21):
interesting. So you know, stuff doesn't
happen at night only or exclusively, you know,
activities going on all the time.
We just have to be attentive to it.
It's easier to document at nightsometimes, but.
Yeah, but Speaking of Fort Mifflin, yes, there's another
place we need to get to. There is.
I know, I know. I know, I know, I know.
So. So and I, I have AI have a
(38:42):
different road trip idea for youactually later this summer.
So possibly a podcast episode aswell.
So, OK, so yes, yes, excellent. So.
Yeah, I, I find this place fascinating.
I, I first found out about a couple years ago for and threw
(39:04):
away a whole 0 Files episode andI, and they had been an
interesting night of activity and, and knowing Hans has been
there, you know, obviously, no, I'm a fan of his work and I'm
not going to be shy about that. You know, walking in his
footsteps to some degree as wellwould be really interesting to
me. So I'm really, really looking
forward to an opportunity. To do that.
Cool there. Yeah, it sounds sounds like a
(39:27):
good, good thing, a good goal all.
Right. Well, that that is, that is, I
say all the time, that's my bookreport, so.
Stop there. Cool.
So I was sort of sidetracked side whatever side tracking
here. Talking at a with a guy from
work today about paranormal stuff and he, he started off by
(39:52):
saying, talking about how kids imaginary friends are really
spooky. Why, why, why do you say that?
So, you know, I was trying to, trying to dig and see, you know,
because he knows I, I into the paranormal and investigating and
stuff. And he's like, I don't know,
it's just weird. It's, it's, it's spooky as it
scares me. And I'm like, well, why does it
(40:12):
scare, you know, trying to. And it's, he admitted that this
all intrigues him, but he doesn't, he's not comfortable
with the unknown. And that's what, that's what
makes this scary to so many people.
They're not comfortable with theunknown.
I I understand that completely. Welcome to my house.
So it's just, it's really interesting that that's what's
(40:33):
holding so many people back fromfrom wanting to learn more about
it. But that's what's keeping, you
know, that's what they're scaredabout is they don't want to
learn more about it. Sure.
It was just intriguing to have that conversation with somebody
today. Well, I, I think I've said this
before and, and I apologize for being redundant, but it might, I
think it's been a long enough that everybody, nobody remembers
(40:54):
what I say anyway, right. So there, it's kind of like in
in coming through the nonprofit world, there's when you're
giving a presentation of information, like you're doing a
campaign pitch, you know, to a place or a person.
There's there's two kind of things.
There's there's the analytical fact driven people.
And then there's the story connecting.
(41:15):
You know, what's the work? Do all that kind of stuff,
people. And the adage gives the facts,
telling stories sell. If you can combine a
presentation to mix those two together for the analytical
folks and for, you know, for thedreamers, like a better way of
saying it. You know, you, you can touch on
everything. And I think, you know, I'm being
very loose to say what I'm aboutto say.
(41:36):
So this is my opinion only. But I think a lot of us who are
working in the field and, you know, we're dreamers.
We want to believe in something else, something different than
than what we know. And, and we're willing to go
forward for it. Yeah, and the analytical folks
are pausing because they want toknow the details before they get
to the next thing to commit to that.
(41:57):
And I'm going to be very loose. But you know that that's sort of
what it's sort of what it seems like to know sounds like to me.
And you know, but once you and I, I want proof too.
So bear with I'm in the same spirit of like 1/2 brain of each
kind of thing or half, halfway on each side I'm 3/4 one and a
quarter or the other maybe. But you know, I still want
(42:18):
details, I want facts, I want evidence.
You know, I'm, I'm still skeptical of everything before
I'm willing to commit and admit that it is a paranormal
opportunity. And what we've captured or what
we've experienced is that because there's so many things
that can be first. But again, once we start
chipping away at all the other stuff it could be and nothing is
left, then it has to be paranormal because it's no
(42:38):
longer normal. So.
When I that's where when you start talking, I you saying you
were more on the dreamer side, Ithink we're more down the middle
where it's I think because, and most people who are in the field
are more down the middle becauseyou have to have that openness
to the story. But you want the proof or you
(43:00):
wouldn't be taking equipment andyou would just be going in for
the scare factor. Sure.
And that's that's not what most of the people are are.
The people we know, the people we know we work with are right.
Bird said. Everything is unknown until you
learn. Right.
That's very fair. So you don't know what you don't
know? Yeah, you know.
(43:21):
Nope, that's really that that tome is really interesting that
I'm glad you had that conversation.
I have those kind of conversations with Co workers
and you know, people I run across people who know what we
do all the time and like, how can you go do that?
And like, well, how can you not?You know, and it's it's a
different opinion. I don't I don't know how to say
it, you know, like otherwise andtrying to be tactful here.
(43:44):
What the heck is wrong with you?Why wouldn't you?
You know, but I get it that there is it is not the cup of
tea for many and but they're curious enough to have the
conversation and those right. There are also people who don't
want to know. They don't want to know that
there's something after this. Sure, that's fair.
(44:04):
So yeah, it's, you know, to eachhis own, I guess, is the way
that you got to look at it, right.
That's absolutely true. And the fun thing about this is
we, we, and at least you and I and our team, we, we do not push
stuff on others. If you're not interested or you
don't want to know, we're not going to force you.
And then, you know, it is your choice to, you know, engage how
(44:26):
much you much or as little as you wish.
You see, you know, we do public investigations, right?
We have to be joking about this all the time.
You know, the the she brings thehe who doesn't believe in any of
this stuff or vice versa, you know, and or doesn't want to be
there and all that stuff. And you know more times than not
by the end of the night the the non believer that the
(44:47):
uninterested is interested and more engaged at least.
You know, yeah, most. Most.
Times. Most of the time.
Most of the time, Not every time.
But last investigation we had one just as no, yeah.
OK. Was was was taking sides of you.
Wouldn't you would have just questioned of of spirits in the
brewery? Like, wow, how did you get
(45:10):
there? Like so anyway, so yeah, but but
like we said, to each his own. And you know, that's that's you
got to have every every, every instrument in the band.
Jamie, right. True.
That's how you get a band. I'm going to post this comment,
Burt says. I was going to say that some
people like being blind to what's around them.
(45:33):
That's OK, right? You're right.
All right. Well, Speaking of doing on a
tangent, right? Let's reel it in.
Sorry, I just, it was one of those conversations sort of
stuck with me and it was I wanted to share and.
It's, it's a great conversation and I, I welcome that.
You know, if anybody knows me, I'm, I'm happy to talk about
this all day long, you know, so let's, you know, bring it
(45:54):
forward. I'd love to hear your opinion,
your thoughts, you know, on the paranormal and whatever you may
believe it to be. I'm happy to have that
conversation at any time. So, yeah, yeah.
Let's do it. So should we have a conversation
about what's coming up, Jamie? Yes, let's let's do it.
So upcoming episodes. All right.
(46:15):
I just, you want to throw that up back.
To back to the all the instruments make a band, Bert
saying also that not all instruments are in tune.
All right. Well, that sort of ties into my
episode next week, The Dybbuk Box.
Perfect. So there you go.
I'll be digging into that a little bit that sort of ties
(46:37):
into Jamie's April first episodea couple weeks ago about
paranormal hoaxes. But well, I'll, I'll, I'll
explain more about that next week, the 27th Men in black
Jamie will be digging into that.I can't believe we're talking
about June already, but I will look at the Menahuna.
(46:59):
Then June 10th, Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary, June 17th.
One that I'm, I'm excited about,but leery to share, But
hauntings of my childhood home experiences that I had, not just
me, most of them or not ones that I had, but other people
(47:20):
were hoping to get Alex on with us that night 'cause he actually
had a personal experience that Isaw him have.
And it, it was probably one of his first paranormal experiences
and I'd, I'd just like him to share that.
So looking forward to that. Then the 24th Gettysburg.
And where is your childhood home?
(47:41):
Just South of Gettysburg, about 7 miles so so.
That ties nicely. Yep, and then believe it or not,
July 1st we're going to be doinga Season 2 wrap up.
So. You know man.
If sort of a challenge for everybody out there.
If you look back at the shows we've done in this season, just
(48:03):
shoot us an e-mail with your favorite one or two shows and,
and what and what you liked about them.
Jamie, you know, if you can think about that too.
And we'll, we'll, we'll just discuss it.
We'll wrap it up and, and maybe we'll talk about what's coming
up in season 3. Can you believe we're at season
3 in like? I can't believe we did 3
(48:24):
episodes. So anyway, so yeah, just shoot
us some some ideas about that, what you really liked about the
season or what you didn't like. That way we can make sure we
tune it so the band is more in tune.
So I didn't like how you did that.
So John Nick's paranormal investigation, this coming
(48:46):
weekend we are going to be with Stacy and Gary from Landon
Legend Paranormal at Boobie's Brewery.
We had a great episode with themlast week.
Jamie, I think you and I agree. That was one of our one of our
better. Ones that was a lot of fun.
I'm looking forward to this weekend, I really AM.
So yeah, you know, we still havetickets available.
(49:08):
I think there were at least 11 when I looked, but they go fast
this last week. So don't, don't wait till the
last minute or there won't be tickets.
So we've got that other stuff coming up the 17th we talked
about June 28th we will be at the Haunted Crescent Sanatorium
in prison Paracon. Then July 26th, August 16th and
(49:31):
September 27th we will be at thebrewery.
At least we plan on being at thebrewery.
So you know, get get your tickets now for those like I
said, we'll be at the Hora and Paracon at Crescent on June
26th. That is 12 to 6.
Then there is an investigation available afterwards.
(49:54):
A very interesting sight from what I've heard.
Really looking forward to being there not far from some friends
up there. So I get to go see them after
that like it's going to be a great, great day, so.
I get to drive home in the fog again.
Yeah, every time we're in mid state.
We're going to be in mid state quite a bit in the next couple
years, Jamie, so. I know, I know, I'm well aware.
(50:19):
And then you found us on Facebook or YouTube tonight, but
we're also on Tiktok, Instagram,you know, Paranormal lens is on
Facebook, Tiktok. Shoot us an e-mail.
Like I said, give us what you liked about this season, what
you maybe didn't like. That's paranormal
lenspodcast@gmail.com. Then you can find us on Spotify,
(50:43):
Apple podcast, all those fun things the next day, typically,
typically the next day. Sometimes, sometimes it's a
little late to get those things posted, but we're we're we're
doing our best. So good.
Good intentions to be there. So, so yeah, any, any final
(51:03):
thoughts here, Jamie? Now just thanks everybody.
You know, we, we were talking about wrapping up season 2
already and you know, I, I remember thinking like how we
got the end of season 1, like, holy cow, you know, how, how do
we get here? Here we are again.
How do we get this far? So thanks everyone for joining
us every week and, and catching up with us and, you know,
letting us get through all this fun stuff.
(51:24):
I mean, I say this all the time,but the, the paranormal field
has no walls. So there's lots more to come.
Excited to think, start thinkingabout season 3.
Yeah. And, and we have, we have a few
exciting things coming up to something and we're going to be
doing something very interestingin, in a couple weeks as well.
So we'll share that when we get a little closer.
Thank thank goodness the producers haven't cut us yet,
(51:44):
Haji. I know, right?
I keep waiting for that like a big hook just to come swinging
across my screen here. I'm gone.
But yeah, so we, we appreciate it guys, and and thank you for
wherever you are in the world. We we know we're everywhere at
this point. We see the analytics and it's
shocking, you know, and so happyeverybody comes along for the
(52:05):
ride. I think there's another.
Yeah, that was that was going tobe my next comment is Yeah,
e-mail us, send us what you wantto what you want to see.
We can rearrange our schedule. I think I saw we have another
country on the list, Jamie, I haven't tracked down which it
is, but there's another one on there.
So thank you. Thank you, Thank you.
So so. All right, all right.
(52:30):
Here we are another week and we'll be back here next Tuesday
looking forward to seeing peopleSaturday night.
If you can make it out, join us Should be a fun, fun time.
The energy is definitely going to be interesting with Stacy and
Gary there. I'm looking forward to it.
It'll be it'll be a great time, so.
(52:51):
Absolutely. Yep.
So and join us next week for theDibic box.
All right, y'all. All right.
Thanks a lot. Good night.
The. Good evening and welcome to this
week's episode. My gosh, Chad, I can't talk.
I've been 3-3 words in and I'm bumbling already.
Holy cow. This week's episode of
Paranormal Lens presented by Jiotnik's Paranormal Guys.
Hey, it's Jamie Walker here. That's Chad Thomas over there.
(00:56):
We're back. Chad, how's your week?
Do you know how I've been? It's not a summer question.
You know how I've been really busy at work?
Yes, yes, it's almost done. I mean it's like like the the
show is tomorrow so we can't addanything after then.
Oh boy. So it's there, it's there.
(01:19):
So what do you do when when thisis all done, What do you do?
Walk around and with a cup of coffee and just kind of point at
stuff and tell people to do stuff again or.
We don't know what to do becausewe've gone from 100 miles an
hour till like 2, so I. Hope you get a window of
enjoyment. At least the shop is very clean
right now. Let's put it that.
(01:39):
Way it's very bare as well. Yes, exactly.
So it is so, so it might, you know, it's been, it's been a
good week. I got a lot going on.
But you know, we had Mother's Day this weekend.
So, but how's your week been? It's, it's been, it's been the
same. It was, it was a lot of busy
activity in my like my work weekwas busy.
(01:59):
This week started off hectic. Today was kind of calm, which is
great. You know, Mother's Day did
happen. So again, if we missed you on
Mother's Day, happy Mother's Dayto everybody out there, you
know, and we had some we're in the decision process time now
with college kid. Did you know?
And decisions are getting made, housing is getting established,
(02:21):
some review of of like course selection and that kind of stuff
is starting to happen. So it's coming together well,
even out of high school yet. Yeah, and and Jamie, we we
forgot there was a prom in there.
Not for us. Yeah, there was a prom in there
and, and pictures and all that fun stuff and post prom.
And post prom and and the trip to the north, yeah, as well,
(02:44):
yeah. A lot of driving and this this
week is a choral concert. And the answer is it's it's that
end of the year spring. We're doing everything too like
the this the final one for for the for Zoe.
And it's amazing, you know how we all got here.
So wow, time flies. Well, Speaking of Speaking of
(03:08):
time flying by, let's talk abouttonight's episode.
Let's do that. There's a lot of time has flown
by, and so tonight we're going to talk about the Morris Jumel
Mansion. Do you know where this is, Chad?
New York was the only thing I know about it.
All right, New York City, that'scorrect.
It is in present day Manhattan and it is technically in
(03:30):
Washington Heights, so I'm not going to sing anything from the
musical for you, I promise. Appreciate that well.
You know, I I might. I might now.
You said it like that. It wasn't.
And and. You know, I know better.
I know better. One I've seen a few times, so
thanks to Disney Plus. But you know, Manhattan is today
(03:51):
a built up super place, right? New York City in general,
everything is just massive. It's the largest city in the
country. It's one of the largest cities
in the world. But back in the day it was not.
So let's go back to 1765 turn onour way back machine and looking
at an area there on this map that is the southern end of
(04:15):
Manhattan is is what is what would be New York City at the
time. And where we are is the very top
edge of the map up in the nowhere lands 11 miles to the
north. So country, farm lands, hills,
rocky outcrops, all kinds of nature, you know, fresh air or
fresh water, things you were notfinding in the tightly packed
(04:37):
city that is or at least was NewYork back then.
So. But let's talk about the mansion
itself. And this is from
morrisjumel.com. As the oldest surviving house in
Manhattan, the Morris Jumel Mansion has borne witness to
much of New York City's rich anddiverse history.
Built in 1765 for the Morris family, the original property,
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located on the ancestral homeland of the Lenape people,
compromises 50 modern city blocks.
The house would later serve as the headquarters for General
George Washington as well as theBritish military and Hessian
troops during the American Revolution.
After serving as a Tavern TavernSorry for a number of years,
Stephen and Eliza Jamel purchased the house in 1810 and
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embarked in a series of major renovations reflective of
contemporary 19th century tastes.
Thanks to the stewardship of thelast private owners of the
property, Ferdinand and Lily Earl, the home became a museum
in 19 O 4. The mid 20th century saw the
neighborhood develop into a vibrant home to many artists and
celebrities from the Harlem Renaissance, including Paul
(05:43):
Robertson, Jackie Robinson, Thurgood Marshall, and Duke
Ellington, who once referred to the Morris Jumel Mansion as the
jewel in the crown of today. The mansion and its neighboring
buildings are part of the Jamel Terrace Historic District.
Because of this, the appearance of the immediate neighborhood
has changed very little since the beginning of the 20th
century. The Landmarks Preservation
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Commission designated the MorrisJamel Mansion as an individual
landmark in 1967 and an interiorlandmark in 1975.
The mansion was listed in the National Register of Historic
Places in 1966. The mansion is a member of the
Historic House Trust of New YorkCity.
A. Little bit of stuff there.
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Going back, let's get into the deeper history.
What we now refer to as the Morris Jamel Mansion was
constructed around 1765 as a summer residence for British
Colonel Rodger Morris and his wife Mary Phillips Morris and
their children. The home named Mount Morris, of
course. Why wouldn't it be Mount Morris,
right Name Stuff after themselves was possibly
(06:49):
constructed by enslaved laborerswhom the Morris is owned or
rented from other enslavers. These individuals may have
worked alongside free black workers, indentured servants,
and other hired labor. The wealth of Anglo Dutch Harris
Mary Phillips afforded the home to be built with progressive
architectural details and modernconveniences and allow for the
purchase of over 100 acres of land from what is likely 100.
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What is today's, I'm sorry, likely today's 159th to 174th
streets. This land.
Lemon Hawk, lemon, lemon. I cannot say my own writing.
Oh my gosh, Dad. Terrible.
Once again, Le Nape Hoking is the ancestral home of Le Nape
people. Colonel Morris, who was a
Loyalist, fought in the French and Indian Wars alongside George
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Washington and under General Edward Braddock.
After his retirement from the British Army in 1764, Morris
wanted a summer home that would be a bucolic refuge from the
congestion of the downtown city.So we had the the house built in
the northern part of Manhattan. At the time, the city of New
York, which ended at today's Chambers Street, was located 11
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miles South of the house. At the time, the Upper Manhattan
consisted of farm lands, forestsand rocky outcroppings and had
cleaner water and fresher air than the southern tip of the
island. This Georgian Palladian home
with symmetrical proportions andclassic details was erected on
land acquired once owned by Jacob Dykman, an early Dutch
colonizer inspired by contemporary British residences.
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The mansion was possibly inspired by the architectural
designs of Morris's father and uncle, who were both architects.
It features very progressive architectural elements for the
time and location, including a large dominating portico, a
serving alcove in the dining room, and an octagonal shaped
wing which was among the first of its kind constructed in the
colonies seat. At the top was what was the
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second highest point on Manhattan Island.
The house provided unprecedentedviews including the Harlem and
Hudson Rivers, present day Westchester County, and as far
South as Staten Island. Mary Phillips Morris was a
descendant of a prosperous old Dutch colonial family named
Phillips, whose estate was located further north along the
Hudson River. The Phillips family made their
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fortune in the slave trade and were among the largest enslavers
in Colonial New York. The Morris family lived in town
in what was today downtown Manhattan on Stone St. during
much of the year, spending theirsummer months at Mount Morris.
1975 British Colonel Morris, a Loyalist, left the London to
avoid bringing attention to the Morris family during the
turbulent Early Revolutionary times.
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His wife, along with four of their five children and
servants, most likely included enslaved people, traveled to
Philips Manor, Lower Mills in 1776, now known as Philips Manor
Hall in Yonkers, to escape the escalating conflict of war.
Colonel Morris returned in the colonies in December of 1777 and
presumably stayed in lower Manhattan with his family.
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He eventually served as Inspector of Claims for Refugees
for the British Army in New Yorkfrom 1779 until 1786.
Let's think about the Revolutionary War for a second.
On September 15th, 1776, GeneralGeorge Washington occupied the
abandoned house with his officers and domestic staff
after the Continental Army's retreat from Brooklyn after
(10:08):
losing a battle. The elevated location and size
of the house made it ideal as a military headquarters during the
Revolutionary War. The Battle of Harlem Heights
occurred on September 16th, 1776just South of the house in the
area known as the Manhattan Valley near today's Columbia
University campus, and was the first battle where the British
retreated from the Continental Army.
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Washington remained in residencefor approximately 5 weeks and
used the second story of the octagonal room of it as his
office. It is believed that Washington
slept in what is now the WilliamChase bedroom on the 2nd floor
with this enslaved valet WilliamLee in close proximity.
After Washington departed, the mansion at various times became
the headquarters for other troops until Evacuation day in
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1783, including English General Sir Henry Clinton and later
auxiliary German mercenary soldiers known as Hessians, who
are under the command of Baron von Klipson.
The mansion is among the few remaining structures in the
nation to house all sides duringthe conflict.
History At the end of the war, Mary Morris was one of only
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three women accused of treason in New York, and the property
was confiscated as a result of the New York's Legislative Act
of Attainder in 1779, which was written by Mary's cousin John
Jay. The house and Lamb were then
sold to help offset the large war debt incurred by the
Americans. Between 1783 and 1810, the house
was used briefly as a Tavern, a Stagecoach, Stagecoach stop, and
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as an inn for travellers before being largely abandoned.
The surrounding acreage was usedby tenant farmers in July of
1790, where President Washingtonvisited the house with some
members of his future cabinet and their wives and families for
a formal, lavish meal on the surrounding grounds.
Among the guests were Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Abigail
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Adams, Alexander Hamilton, ElizaSkyler Hamilton, Martha
Washington, Henry Knox and Lucy Knox.
Washington wrote about the visitin his journals and described
the house as being in possessionof a common farmer at the time,
doing pretty well for himself. Here comes a change.
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So 20 years after Washington's dinner, the house was purchased
by the Jamel family. Stephen Jamel, a French wine
merchant and his well established importer of and a
well established importer of luxury goods, married American
Eliza Bowen in 18 O 4-6 years later, in 1810, the couple
purchased Mount Morris along with its acreage.
Eliza grew up in poverty in Rhode Island and was largely
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self educated, becoming float inFrench later in their marriage.
She proved to be an astute businesswoman who managed the
Jamel's real estate deals. Despite her wealth, it seemed as
though he, she, and Steven were never fully accepted into the
highest echelons of New York society due to their humble and
immigrant origins. After purchasing the house, the
Jamel has embarked upon a need of renovation to modernize and
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repair the residence, which havebeen abandoned for nearly 30
years. Some of the most substantial
alterations included the remodeling, expansion of the
porch, the extension of the balcony, widening of the
entrance portal, and the inclusion of new side lights and
a fashionable fan window containing the stained glass
Roundel seen today is also through the thought.
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At this time, access was given to the Widow's Walk and the
space in the third floor porticobecame an additional living
quarters. Much of the decorative 18th
century woodwork in the parlor, library, and two bed chambers
were removed. The redecorating campaign of the
1820s included the purchase of asuite of furniture commissioned
for the Octagon Room by ScottishAmerican cabinet maker Duncan
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Fife. Stephen died in 1832, and Eliza
married her second husband, the former vice president Aaron
Burr. Cue the booze on that one.
Right in our house, anyway, in the home's front parlor.
In 1833, Eliza Jamel filed for adivorce four months after the
marriage and hired Alexander Hamilton Junior as one of her
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attorneys handling the divorce. Burr passed away in Staten
Island in a Staten Island rooming house.
The day of the divorce was to befinalized in 1836.
Eliza never remarried but did continue her aspirations to be
part of New York society. She converted the mansion into
her primary residence and summered in fashionable
Saratoga, NY. While in Saratoga in 1841, Eliza
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hired Free American, African American, and Northup to be her
cook in New York City. Northup's husband Solomon had
been abducted and sold into slavery in the South, and this
was recounted in his memoir, 12 Years as a Slave.
Missus Northup and her three children lived with, with, and
worked for Eliza and her man, her family, at the mansion.
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When Eliza died on July 16th, 1865, she left the estate to her
sister's children. A highly contentious and
publicized battle over the estate ensued and lasted for 17
years, ultimately reaching the Supreme Court.
Through it all, the home was sold in 1887.
In 1889, the home became the residence of an early French
photographer and filmmaker, Augustine Le Prince and his
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family. Le Prince was a trained chemist
and inventor who rented the mansion with the intentions of
debuting the first moving motionpicture at the residence.
However, in 1890, Le Prince and the film disappeared before the
film could be publicly shown. His family remained at the house
for a short time after while pursuing the circumstances of
his disappearance, but Leprince was never found.
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As a side note to that, some believe that Thomas Edison may
have had a hand in Prince's disappearing as he was also
about to unveil his motion picture around the same time.
Coincidence. Maybe.
Maybe. And then General Ferdinand Earl
and his wife Lily and their children resided in the home
from 1894 until 19 O3, referringto the estate as Earl Cliff.
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Following Ferdinand's death in 19 O3, Lily campaigned for the
home to be preserved as a historic site, and the City of
New York purchased a building and almost 2 acres for $235,000.
And lastly, today the mansion and its neighboring buildings
are part of the Jamel Terrace Historical District due to the
structures historic significancerepresentations of housing for
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three centuries. The Mansion, a member of the
Historic House Trust of New YorkCity, was listed in the National
Register of Historic Places in 1966, followed by its
designation as an individual landmark in 1967, an interior
landmark in 1975 by New York City's Landmark Preservation
Commission. During the bicentennial
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celebrations of 1776, Queen Elizabeth the Second visited the
mansion and toured the grounds in historic gardens.
Anyone else find it out that theQueen of England came over to
help us celebrate the beating ofher country and her narrow
independence? Seems, seems kind of wonky.
All right. And here's a fun fact that was
was I shared this with members of our household last night.
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In 2014, writer and composer LinManuel Miranda sat in
Ehrenberg's bed chamber and wrote songs for his hit musical
Hamilton. That's sort of cool.
Yeah. The mansion today serves as a
community space featuring uniquearts, theater and education for
educational programming to connect the history of the house
and its inhabitants to the present.
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It's a lot of stuff, right? Yeah, a lot of information real
fast. A lot of historical names there.
Yeah, a lot of people, right. And the names we all know and
know and you know, if we well students of history know pretty
well and including, you know, John Jay, which is a signer of
declaration, the Washingtons, Hamiltons, Thomas Jefferson,
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etcetera. So that's that's a lot of
history, but that's not a lot ofparanormal stuff, right.
And this is paranormal ends. After all, I'm expecting
something. Jamie, you're not rapping here.
I could. I could, but no, we will not.
So let's talk about the paranormal claims.
So from New York City haunts.com.
As you can ascertain from the above, the Mars Jamel mansion
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has seen a lot of history and a lot of tragedy in its many
years. Such houses tend to lend
themselves to being the sites ofhauntings, and this one is no
exception. Many of the rumoured hauntings
come from Aaron Burr's former bedroom.
Having died shortly after his divorce from Jamel, the old
founding father may be trying toget another shot with his lost
love. Or maybe he's just after the
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money he could get his hands on while alive.
Either way, many have reported hearing disembodied voices and
creaking footsteps from that room, with the sounds occurring
after hours. Unlike many sightings, the
Morris Jumel Mansion has some evidence to support his
paranormal claims. A paranormal investigator who
has investigated the mansion hasa video clip of a strange
disembodied voice. The mansion staff are split on
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what the voice is saying. As we almost always are, right?
I think it's, I think it's that,well, some claim it to hear it
saying I love you, while others think it's saying they're
laughing at you. I'm sure the only word that's
clear in there is you, right? So if there's a likely culprit
for the voices, it would be Eliza Jamel.
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Most people who come away from aghostly encounter at the mansion
describe some of them watching Eliza's description.
She is typically dressed in white 18th century dress and is
quite the chatty spirit, once yelling at visitor visiting
school children to shut up. Some also claim that her
presence causes other ghosts to fight over her, namely her two
former husbands. The museum staff maintains a
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record of all of these mysterious encounters, known as
the Book of Haunts. Also, people have reported
another strange experience for the mansion that doesn't involve
a ghost. Instead, it's a seemingly
regular looking clock inside thedining room.
Regular looking, save for the moon decoration that covers the
clock's face. The clock is known to be a bit
of a flirt, and the moon will wink and handsome men when they
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pass by. But don't worry if it doesn't
wink at you, it doesn't always feel flirty.
OK all. Right, let's road trip it.
Let's go. Let's get it now from USUS
ghostadventures.com Visitors to the mansion turned museum report
hearing footsteps where there shouldn't be any knocking on
walls and doors, voices yelling,and strange static electricity
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pulsing through the air. There are claims that a Hessian
soldier died on the stairs at the mansion has been seen at or
near them ever since. An American Revolutionary War
soldier has been seen patrollingthe second floor outside General
Washington's former office soon after Eliza's death in 1865.
She was first seen in a weight gown laundering the property and
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crying. But these days she's grown weary
of the home and is more likely to yell at passerby's and
children. And here's another version of
the tale of the students being told to shut up.
A group of school children were waiting in line to get into the
mansion for a tour. An elderly woman came out onto
the 2nd floor balcony and told them to be quiet but a member of
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the museum staff. Finally, at the kids inside,
they asked about the woman on the 2nd floor.
However, that single staff member was the only one inside
the home at the time. Now, being told to be quiet and
told to shut up are two different things, right?
So. Yes, very, very different
things. So Jamie here, a quick comment
from Heather here. Do you think Captain Isaac
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Higginfoot from the show goes tothe house?
You hang out with all those guys.
You might be what you might be hanging out there too.
You know, he's not that far awaydown in where where is that show
in? It's in PA.
He might you never know. So going back a little bit
further, Stephen Jamel's death was shrouded in mystery.
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His spirit is said to appear with a facial wound from his
carriage accident 1 and he he died believably.
He died in an accident with a a carriage horse carriage.
One member reported feeling in an inexplicably cold spot in
Stevens former room, followed bythe sensation of an unseen hand
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touching her shoulder. He couldn't let this part of it
pass by. Chad Hans Holzer, along with
medium Ethel Johnson Myers investigated the mansion on 2
occasions. During a seance, Stephen came
forward and claimed that Eliza had murdered him by opening
wounds he suffered in an accident with a pitchfork.
He claimed she stood by and watched as he bled to death.
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And that's something, yeah. It's something like to come back
and. Wow, accuse somebody of your
murder. Yes, that's that's that's deep.
Now with all that aside, there'salso the a belief that he may
have died of pneumonia too. So here we have a wide spectrum,
right? Anywhere from, you know,
pneumonia to getting pushed off a moving carriage to be, you
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know, getting stabbed with a pitchfork.
So also proof that there were very, very, very poor records at
the time. Exactly.
So another Isabella, a servant girl, reportedly took her life
in the mansion. Her presence is often felt in
the servants quarters in the back entrance, where she's been
seen sobbing uncontrollably. In one instant, a visitor claims
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to have seen a woman's figure falling from a height and
screaming before disappearing. Another version of this is that
Isabella became pregnant to the son of a former owner and when
discovered, he abandoned her, leading to her suicide.
So if you go, and I encourage you do, there are public
paranormal investigations. These are guided events.
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They're usually 7:00 to 9:30 in the evening, so not terribly
late, something we can all manage.
You can also book a private paranormal investigation.
It's also 2 1/2 hours, but it starts later and it must
conclude by midnight because this is a working museum.
And in the spooky season months of September and October, there
are candlelight ghost tours thatare also guided.
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Not real candles for fear of burning the house down, but you
get a guided tour with candles running around.
Information and all events can be found at
morrisgmail.com/program/paranormal.And I have a slide of that
running three years somewhere. So in conclusion is worthy to
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note that New York City rumor mill claimed Eliza Jamel killed
her husband several different ways including pushing him from
a moving carriage, poisoning him, burying him alive, blah
blah blah. Regardless of how Stephen Jamel
died, he left a hefty fortune toEliza.
Is believed that after her divorce from Aaron Burr, she
became a recluse and eventually suffered from dementia.
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She spent her last years drifting through the mansion,
her heroin kept and her clothes soiled, perhaps haunted by her
past actions. Given its long history and
defined turmoil, I find it hard to believe that Morris Jamel
Mansion is not an active place. I'm really looking forward to
going and finding out. Do you have a date booked,
Jamie? Not yet, not yet, but I have a
(24:57):
thought about it. Let's let's cite some sources
and then we'll discuss. So obviously Morris, jamel.com,
New York City, ghost.com, US ghostadventures.com,
realhaunts.com, our good friendsat atlasobscura.com.
So Chad, when are we going? I don't know but it sounds like
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an interesting place. Other ones to know if you've
been there. I have not and I'm, I'm mad.
I'm mad about this. So I was in New York City back
in December. Everybody, we all went up, you
know, the kids, Steph, I, grandma, they went to see stuffs
on Broadway. I had the afternoon, morning,
afternoon all to myself. And I was thinking where should
I go? And I realized where this was,
(25:44):
you know, from from where Broadway is to where the mansion
is, is 12 city blocks, 13 blocks, which is a long way.
And, you know, I had to get a get a Uber, get a cab, whatever.
And I had a window of time that was this much.
So instead, I drifted off and I went over to like, Rockefeller
Center, you know, all that it did was.
Christmas thing, Yeah, yeah. It was Christmas, you know, all
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that touristy crap. I wish I would have, would have
done it instead, because the show went longer than I thought
it would. You know, I, I want to be
outside for like 4 hours, which in December New York City is, is
a wind tunnel of frozen this youknow, couldn't feel my fingers
after a while blah blah blah. I had time I think, I think I
(26:26):
had time. And if I go back, if we go when
we go back and we will, I will do it for sure.
Then if I don't get there beforeit was that or go the other way
South to the Ghostbusters Firehouse.
So, you know, they're both in Manhattan.
So, but this isn't, this isn't Manhattan.
Like we know it. You know, it is truly north.
(26:46):
And that's part of the problem. Like for me at least on that day
was it was so far away that I just couldn't get the distance
figured out and the timing. So, you know, it is definitely
Uptown and I think in the time, you know, this would have been
pretty cool, you know, with the country laying layer that it was
not, you know, now it's all city.
It's nothing like, you know, it's just right now the house
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looks, it's kind of like, I'm going to say this to be very
loose with my comment, but it's kind of like Graceland in
Memphis. You know, when it was built back
in the 50s and 60s, whatever it was, you know, it was a stately
home on the edge of town, but now it's right next to a
highway. Right, it was rural, but now
it's not. Yeah, and this is this is that,
you know, not, not to compare the two and not to be, you know,
(27:31):
disparaging either way, but you know it, it was stately in its
time. You know, it's got a it's got a
gate in the front. It's got a, you know, the whole
kind of big wrap around it. 100 had 100 acres.
I mean, that's a lot of land. You know what that is worth
today is amazing for the city rates so.
Well, but, but that wasn't typical for houses, like for
(27:52):
estates in that time, Sure, which, you know, we, we think of
it, you know, it was a time of you either had you had things or
you didn't have things in this country.
And and so land owners owned a lot of land and you know, they
had people working for them. And that's what one of, that's
what this was, Jim says. It's an amazing, amazing house
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with an amazing story. What history and mystery.
Thanks for acknowledging it. Thanks for saying that, Jim.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
And Bert said it looks beautifulinside.
Yeah, and then Bert's next comment is why I'm laughing.
Which one? This one?
Only two hours and 52 minutes from our house.
(28:36):
Let's go. Hey, well, and I don't know if
you saw this, but Bert said I'lldrive.
So. So there you go.
Yeah. And as long as we can take the
new bike, right? So anyway, it, it, it does seem
like a there's a lot, like you said, there's a lot of there's a
lot of energy history, all that there, Jamie.
So I don't see why why why it wouldn't be.
(29:00):
Agreed. Yeah, well, I mean, Eliza Jamal
alone, you know, without the, the Morrises and their, you
know, the, the, the builders, you know, like they're the ones
that designed this house and, and it was their thing.
You know, there's some negative circumstances for their, from
their losing control of the home.
You know, the, the Espionage Actor the Trader Act, whatever it
was, you know, being, being accused of treason, that's
(29:21):
that's heavy, that's significant.
And having the property taken from you, you know it's enough
to leave. Leave us, you know, some
negative energy behind. Right.
And then to have it sold to pay debts of war like.
In a in a country that you weren't supporting, right?
There, that's powerful there. I mean, some other things I
picked up from from your information is you never think
(29:45):
of, well, I shouldn't say you never, you don't typically think
of New York City or State as a big slaver.
Right. Yeah, I, I that's, I want to
make sure that was commented on.Yeah, like it just it the the
fact that the the owners of thiswere some of the largest slavers
(30:06):
in the in the country or the in the in New York at least.
It's just that's another amazingpoint.
So. And Bird says it's even older
as, as Indian land or Native American land.
Yeah, it's just, yeah, there's just, again, so much history, so
much energy and, and I mean, youknow, that area was really
(30:27):
important to the Native Americans.
Absolutely. And then in this, this being a
high point, you know, was was a key strategic location for a lot
of reasons as well. Mm hmm.
The other thing that 2 two things here that are glad that
(30:47):
have been done Washington and his journaling.
He he did so much journaling like it.
It seems like he and Alexander Hamilton could have written
books and books and books and books.
Well, he did. Well, yeah.
(31:08):
Yeah, I mean. But you would say that it was
like they're writing, like they're running out of time.
Yeah, exactly. Like there might be a song
there, Jamie, we could, we should look into that.
But the other thing is the preservation societies, the fact
that this land, I mean, and, andobviously there's no way you
could preserve 200 acres or 100 acres or whatever it was all,
(31:29):
all those city blocks. But the fact that this and and
the two acres around it, I thinkyou said are were preserved.
Yeah, there's, there's a, there's a, you know, a greenery
around it, but just really. Yeah.
To that there's, I came across an, an aerial view that it
didn't include really didn't go in context, but there's like an
(31:49):
apartment building like a block away, you know, like a high rise
apartment building. And it's, it looks so it's not
new. It's probably like a 70s or 80s
building, you know, but it's even that looks so out of place
in this in the line, you know, the sight line, you know, it's
on the other end of whatever the, the, the, the historic
(32:11):
district is. So it's, you know, it's good to
be done, but it just looks wonky, you know, and I, I grew
up in Columbia, PA and, and I grew up in the historical
district and, you know, there islike the Wrights Ferry mansion
on 2nd St. second and Cherry, essentially.
I grew up on Cherry Street, the 1st house.
All of those homes are like these big places, these big
(32:34):
houses and mansions, if you will.
I want to call it Texan. That sounds pompous, but with
these really big houses all along 2nd St. as well and that
that was work to be saved. You know, like those homes were
sometimes some of them got broken into apartments and
there's no before anything can be done about it.
But you know, a lot of those arestill single family homes and
(32:54):
it's amazing, you know, looking at that and then going a couple
blocks away and you've got, you know, row homes, you know, that
were needed for workers to work the, the river commerce sections
of like the, the industry that we had.
And then also the canals and so forth that were bringing goods
up and down the Susquehanna. So, you know, it's, it's so
amazing to me. I, and that's a very small scale
(33:15):
versus New York City. I'm not trying to compare, but
I, I have that in my, you know, like that vision, like that,
that would, my house could be that house for them if somebody,
if something else would have been there instead of us, you
know, like people lived in Colombia and Colombia only
missed being the nation's capital by one vote back in the
day. Mr. Washington Punk.
(33:36):
What's he know anyway? So what do you think?
Haunted, not haunted. Paranormal activity.
Oh yeah. I I think there, yeah, there has
to be paranormal activity there,you know, some of that, you
know, were you surprised that there's a woman yelling at, you
know, students when they're being noisy?
No. You know, she wants to keep her
(33:59):
house in order. Like, you know, children should
be seen and not heard as well asthe what you know from her day,
I'm sure. Have you ever said that to your
kids? I don't think so.
I'm going. To I'm going to go try.
One will just stare at you. No, not speaking.
(34:20):
It's not not, yeah, they don't care.
But there was an error when you're right absolutely correct.
And you know, that that also could be, you know, if if we're
talking, we don't know what era Eliza is in, in the time of, of
her presence there, but it was if it's near end of life, you
know, she's dealing with dementia.
(34:41):
And you know, the the idea that there's intrusion, then there's
a lot of things that come with that.
Yeah. Oh, very cool.
Let's define. I am, I'm we might be neighbors
depending on which block you are.
So I'm on the 200 block, or was anyway.
Not anymore. Unfortunately, it's not very
cool. So yeah, it's definitely,
(35:05):
definitely an interesting history.
And I'm, I'm sure there's, there's a residual activity
there as well. It just, yeah, there's, there's
got to be so much energy there. Yeah, just.
Just just to be a family on the wall there in in any of these
time periods, you know, there was so much that had to happen
(35:25):
like when you know, when the allthe all the signers, the
declaration that you talked about were they're having just a
dinner because there was available to do that and just.
Yeah, they, they right. Just to sit in and eavesdrop on
some of that conversation and understanding.
Well, the the house has been on a lot of shows, so if anybody's
(35:48):
really, truly interested in exploring it, more Ghost
Adventures have been there. Their hosierophiles have been
there and a few others. I'm drawing a blank
unfortunately. But you know, if you Google it,
you know, if you go to YouTube and Google or STML Mansion,
you'll find a lot of episodes of, of people and places who've
been there. So, you know, I, I think we need
(36:09):
to figure out how to get there and do it for ourselves as their
team too. So I'm proposing, you know, an
opportunity maybe for next year.I know this year's calendar is
kind of full, but that's something I think we can, we can
look forward to and make it happen.
So it's reasonably. Close.
You know 3 hour drive give or take from us here in South
Central PA. We have a few friends in
(36:31):
Northern New Jersey, New York City area so see if they were
come along as well. Yeah.
Did you have any information on how, like how, how many people
can investigate or? 1010 A-Team of 10.
OK, that's that's the that seemsto be the normal number.
It's a safe number, right? Yeah.
It is a very tight window from the sounds of. 11 would be too
many. But you said a two and a 2 1/2
(36:56):
hour investigation because they'll be out of there.
I mean, I understand it's an active museum and staff doesn't
want to be there all night and. Yeah, there may, there may be
abilities like I don't know whattime the start is though, so
that, that private investigationseems like it could start sooner
if there's not a an open event in front of it.
So we'll see. I know Burt and Heather are
(37:17):
here. So I'm here's my thought when I
said I have a thought about how to do this.
And I know you know, Chad, you're in this too, but we're
all heading to Vermont in a couple weeks, couple, well, a
couple months, two months. New York City is on the way
there and on the way back. But I'm not on that trip.
That's right. OK, well Lynches, I'm talking to
(37:37):
you then. Anybody else go along with us?
That might be a stopping on the way home anyway, maybe a good
stop point. So like a pause point, you know,
a little bit a little bit of a detour to the east perhaps, but
the way I normally go to Vermont.
But I'm I'm curious to think maybe we could so, yeah, could
be could be get the museum tour at least.
(37:58):
Yeah, gets more information. We'll Recon on it.
And you know, Chad, you know, aswell as anybody we we like did
Fort Mifflin during the day double for bird.
Thank you. You know, we were at Fort
Mifflin back in about a year agonow.
Gosh, in the daytime and and we had, you know, just a little bit
of light equipment with us and we got activity and it was quite
(38:21):
interesting. So you know, stuff doesn't
happen at night only or exclusively, you know,
activities going on all the time.
We just have to be attentive to it.
It's easier to document at nightsometimes, but.
Yeah, but Speaking of Fort Mifflin, yes, there's another
place we need to get to. There is.
I know, I know. I know, I know, I know.
So. So and I, I have AI have a
(38:42):
different road trip idea for youactually later this summer.
So possibly a podcast episode aswell.
So, OK, so yes, yes, excellent. So.
Yeah, I, I find this place fascinating.
I, I first found out about a couple years ago for and threw
(39:04):
away a whole 0 Files episode andI, and they had been an
interesting night of activity and, and knowing Hans has been
there, you know, obviously, no, I'm a fan of his work and I'm
not going to be shy about that. You know, walking in his
footsteps to some degree as wellwould be really interesting to
me. So I'm really, really looking
forward to an opportunity. To do that.
Cool there. Yeah, it sounds sounds like a
(39:27):
good, good thing, a good goal all.
Right. Well, that that is, that is, I
say all the time, that's my bookreport, so.
Stop there. Cool.
So I was sort of sidetracked side whatever side tracking
here. Talking at a with a guy from
work today about paranormal stuff and he, he started off by
(39:52):
saying, talking about how kids imaginary friends are really
spooky. Why, why, why do you say that?
So, you know, I was trying to, trying to dig and see, you know,
because he knows I, I into the paranormal and investigating and
stuff. And he's like, I don't know,
it's just weird. It's, it's, it's spooky as it
scares me. And I'm like, well, why does it
(40:12):
scare, you know, trying to. And it's, he admitted that this
all intrigues him, but he doesn't, he's not comfortable
with the unknown. And that's what, that's what
makes this scary to so many people.
They're not comfortable with theunknown.
I I understand that completely. Welcome to my house.
So it's just, it's really interesting that that's what's
(40:33):
holding so many people back fromfrom wanting to learn more about
it. But that's what's keeping, you
know, that's what they're scaredabout is they don't want to
learn more about it. Sure.
It was just intriguing to have that conversation with somebody
today. Well, I, I think I've said this
before and, and I apologize for being redundant, but it might, I
think it's been a long enough that everybody, nobody remembers
(40:54):
what I say anyway, right. So there, it's kind of like in
in coming through the nonprofit world, there's when you're
giving a presentation of information, like you're doing a
campaign pitch, you know, to a place or a person.
There's there's two kind of things.
There's there's the analytical fact driven people.
And then there's the story connecting.
(41:15):
You know, what's the work? Do all that kind of stuff,
people. And the adage gives the facts,
telling stories sell. If you can combine a
presentation to mix those two together for the analytical
folks and for, you know, for thedreamers, like a better way of
saying it. You know, you, you can touch on
everything. And I think, you know, I'm being
very loose to say what I'm aboutto say.
(41:36):
So this is my opinion only. But I think a lot of us who are
working in the field and, you know, we're dreamers.
We want to believe in something else, something different than
than what we know. And, and we're willing to go
forward for it. Yeah, and the analytical folks
are pausing because they want toknow the details before they get
to the next thing to commit to that.
(41:57):
And I'm going to be very loose. But you know that that's sort of
what it's sort of what it seems like to know sounds like to me.
And you know, but once you and I, I want proof too.
So bear with I'm in the same spirit of like 1/2 brain of each
kind of thing or half, halfway on each side I'm 3/4 one and a
quarter or the other maybe. But you know, I still want
(42:18):
details, I want facts, I want evidence.
You know, I'm, I'm still skeptical of everything before
I'm willing to commit and admit that it is a paranormal
opportunity. And what we've captured or what
we've experienced is that because there's so many things
that can be first. But again, once we start
chipping away at all the other stuff it could be and nothing is
left, then it has to be paranormal because it's no
(42:38):
longer normal. So.
When I that's where when you start talking, I you saying you
were more on the dreamer side, Ithink we're more down the middle
where it's I think because, and most people who are in the field
are more down the middle becauseyou have to have that openness
to the story. But you want the proof or you
(43:00):
wouldn't be taking equipment andyou would just be going in for
the scare factor. Sure.
And that's that's not what most of the people are are.
The people we know, the people we know we work with are right.
Bird said. Everything is unknown until you
learn. Right.
That's very fair. So you don't know what you don't
know? Yeah, you know.
(43:21):
Nope, that's really that that tome is really interesting that
I'm glad you had that conversation.
I have those kind of conversations with Co workers
and you know, people I run across people who know what we
do all the time and like, how can you go do that?
And like, well, how can you not?You know, and it's it's a
different opinion. I don't I don't know how to say
it, you know, like otherwise andtrying to be tactful here.
(43:44):
What the heck is wrong with you?Why wouldn't you?
You know, but I get it that there is it is not the cup of
tea for many and but they're curious enough to have the
conversation and those right. There are also people who don't
want to know. They don't want to know that
there's something after this. Sure, that's fair.
(44:04):
So yeah, it's, you know, to eachhis own, I guess, is the way
that you got to look at it, right.
That's absolutely true. And the fun thing about this is
we, we, and at least you and I and our team, we, we do not push
stuff on others. If you're not interested or you
don't want to know, we're not going to force you.
And then, you know, it is your choice to, you know, engage how
(44:26):
much you much or as little as you wish.
You see, you know, we do public investigations, right?
We have to be joking about this all the time.
You know, the the she brings thehe who doesn't believe in any of
this stuff or vice versa, you know, and or doesn't want to be
there and all that stuff. And you know more times than not
by the end of the night the the non believer that the
(44:47):
uninterested is interested and more engaged at least.
You know, yeah, most. Most.
Times. Most of the time.
Most of the time, Not every time.
But last investigation we had one just as no, yeah.
OK. Was was was taking sides of you.
Wouldn't you would have just questioned of of spirits in the
brewery? Like, wow, how did you get
(45:10):
there? Like so anyway, so yeah, but but
like we said, to each his own. And you know, that's that's you
got to have every every, every instrument in the band.
Jamie, right. True.
That's how you get a band. I'm going to post this comment,
Burt says. I was going to say that some
people like being blind to what's around them.
(45:33):
That's OK, right? You're right.
All right. Well, Speaking of doing on a
tangent, right? Let's reel it in.
Sorry, I just, it was one of those conversations sort of
stuck with me and it was I wanted to share and.
It's, it's a great conversation and I, I welcome that.
You know, if anybody knows me, I'm, I'm happy to talk about
this all day long, you know, so let's, you know, bring it
(45:54):
forward. I'd love to hear your opinion,
your thoughts, you know, on the paranormal and whatever you may
believe it to be. I'm happy to have that
conversation at any time. So, yeah, yeah.
Let's do it. So should we have a conversation
about what's coming up, Jamie? Yes, let's let's do it.
So upcoming episodes. All right.
(46:15):
I just, you want to throw that up back.
To back to the all the instruments make a band, Bert
saying also that not all instruments are in tune.
All right. Well, that sort of ties into my
episode next week, The Dybbuk Box.
Perfect. So there you go.
I'll be digging into that a little bit that sort of ties
(46:37):
into Jamie's April first episodea couple weeks ago about
paranormal hoaxes. But well, I'll, I'll, I'll
explain more about that next week, the 27th Men in black
Jamie will be digging into that.I can't believe we're talking
about June already, but I will look at the Menahuna.
(46:59):
Then June 10th, Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary, June 17th.
One that I'm, I'm excited about,but leery to share, But
hauntings of my childhood home experiences that I had, not just
me, most of them or not ones that I had, but other people
(47:20):
were hoping to get Alex on with us that night 'cause he actually
had a personal experience that Isaw him have.
And it, it was probably one of his first paranormal experiences
and I'd, I'd just like him to share that.
So looking forward to that. Then the 24th Gettysburg.
And where is your childhood home?
(47:41):
Just South of Gettysburg, about 7 miles so so.
That ties nicely. Yep, and then believe it or not,
July 1st we're going to be doinga Season 2 wrap up.
So. You know man.
If sort of a challenge for everybody out there.
If you look back at the shows we've done in this season, just
(48:03):
shoot us an e-mail with your favorite one or two shows and,
and what and what you liked about them.
Jamie, you know, if you can think about that too.
And we'll, we'll, we'll just discuss it.
We'll wrap it up and, and maybe we'll talk about what's coming
up in season 3. Can you believe we're at season
3 in like? I can't believe we did 3
(48:24):
episodes. So anyway, so yeah, just shoot
us some some ideas about that, what you really liked about the
season or what you didn't like. That way we can make sure we
tune it so the band is more in tune.
So I didn't like how you did that.
So John Nick's paranormal investigation, this coming
(48:46):
weekend we are going to be with Stacy and Gary from Landon
Legend Paranormal at Boobie's Brewery.
We had a great episode with themlast week.
Jamie, I think you and I agree. That was one of our one of our
better. Ones that was a lot of fun.
I'm looking forward to this weekend, I really AM.
So yeah, you know, we still havetickets available.
(49:08):
I think there were at least 11 when I looked, but they go fast
this last week. So don't, don't wait till the
last minute or there won't be tickets.
So we've got that other stuff coming up the 17th we talked
about June 28th we will be at the Haunted Crescent Sanatorium
in prison Paracon. Then July 26th, August 16th and
(49:31):
September 27th we will be at thebrewery.
At least we plan on being at thebrewery.
So you know, get get your tickets now for those like I
said, we'll be at the Hora and Paracon at Crescent on June
26th. That is 12 to 6.
Then there is an investigation available afterwards.
(49:54):
A very interesting sight from what I've heard.
Really looking forward to being there not far from some friends
up there. So I get to go see them after
that like it's going to be a great, great day, so.
I get to drive home in the fog again.
Yeah, every time we're in mid state.
We're going to be in mid state quite a bit in the next couple
years, Jamie, so. I know, I know, I'm well aware.
(50:19):
And then you found us on Facebook or YouTube tonight, but
we're also on Tiktok, Instagram,you know, Paranormal lens is on
Facebook, Tiktok. Shoot us an e-mail.
Like I said, give us what you liked about this season, what
you maybe didn't like. That's paranormal
lenspodcast@gmail.com. Then you can find us on Spotify,
(50:43):
Apple podcast, all those fun things the next day, typically,
typically the next day. Sometimes, sometimes it's a
little late to get those things posted, but we're we're we're
doing our best. So good.
Good intentions to be there. So, so yeah, any, any final
(51:03):
thoughts here, Jamie? Now just thanks everybody.
You know, we, we were talking about wrapping up season 2
already and you know, I, I remember thinking like how we
got the end of season 1, like, holy cow, you know, how, how do
we get here? Here we are again.
How do we get this far? So thanks everyone for joining
us every week and, and catching up with us and, you know,
letting us get through all this fun stuff.
(51:24):
I mean, I say this all the time,but the, the paranormal field
has no walls. So there's lots more to come.
Excited to think, start thinkingabout season 3.
Yeah. And, and we have, we have a few
exciting things coming up to something and we're going to be
doing something very interestingin, in a couple weeks as well.
So we'll share that when we get a little closer.
Thank thank goodness the producers haven't cut us yet,
(51:44):
Haji. I know, right?
I keep waiting for that like a big hook just to come swinging
across my screen here. I'm gone.
But yeah, so we, we appreciate it guys, and and thank you for
wherever you are in the world. We we know we're everywhere at
this point. We see the analytics and it's
shocking, you know, and so happyeverybody comes along for the
(52:05):
ride. I think there's another.
Yeah, that was that was going tobe my next comment is Yeah,
e-mail us, send us what you wantto what you want to see.
We can rearrange our schedule. I think I saw we have another
country on the list, Jamie, I haven't tracked down which it
is, but there's another one on there.
So thank you. Thank you, Thank you.
So so. All right, all right.
(52:30):
Here we are another week and we'll be back here next Tuesday
looking forward to seeing peopleSaturday night.
If you can make it out, join us Should be a fun, fun time.
The energy is definitely going to be interesting with Stacy and
Gary there. I'm looking forward to it.
It'll be it'll be a great time, so.
(52:51):
Absolutely. Yep.
So and join us next week for theDibic box.
All right, y'all. All right.
Thanks a lot. Good night.
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