May 21, 2025 • 59 mins
📦 Paranormal Lens Podcast - Season 2, Episode 42: The Mystery of the Dybbuk Box 👻
What dark secrets are sealed within the Dybbuk Box? Is it a haunted relic or just an elaborate hoax?
In this chilling episode of Paranormal Lens, host Chad Thomas dives into the terrifying legend of the Dybbuk Box—a cursed artifact said to imprison a restless spirit from Jewish folklore. Chad will unravel the history behind the box, the eerie events tied to its possession, and the spine-chilling accounts from those who've dared to open it.
Co-host Jamie Widener joins the discussion as they explore the supernatural claims surrounding the box and question whether the curse is real or simply the power of belief.
🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!
Dare to learn the truth behind the Dybbuk Box—if you’re brave enough. 🔮👁️👻
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:34):
The. Good evening and welcome to the
Paranormal Lens podcast presented by Jatnix Paranormal.
I'm here Chad Thomas, your host with my Co host, Jamie Wagner.
(00:55):
How are you tonight, Jamie? Chad, I'm wonderful.
How are you doing? I'm doing doing great except for
the little intro being the wrong1.
You know, I guess that means you're up with the the.
Yeah, I got to do it again. All right, fine, I'll do.
I'll do more Estremel all over. That's a cool place.
I'm happy to. It sounds like it I'm I'm, you
know, definitely want to get there so.
(01:16):
Well, you know, what you guys don't get to see on on the back
end with us is that when you know, the stuff starts, there's
there's like a kind of like a start up page.
And as it was coming in, the slide popped up for the, you
know, the cover slide popped up and Chad was that's the wrong 1.
And it took all I had not just to bust out laughing while we
come in because we're right behind it.
(01:37):
So how it happens? Welcome to live theater right
here. Exactly.
Yeah, so. Oh well.
So you know, I can still do my topic though, and maybe people
don't. It is yet so, but anyway.
How was it? How was?
How was your week, Jamie? It's been good.
It's been really good. You know things.
Time is flowing by once again and we're back.
So we did. We had some fun Saturday evening
(02:00):
at that booby's brewery with ourpublic investigation and our
Power Unity event. We have a trainee in the house,
so we got to do some on, on thaton that, some outside drive.
Well, I could do indoor driving,but got to get out and do some
driving Yesterday my, my knuckles finally have stopped
being white for dear life. But yeah, she did good.
(02:23):
So good. We get there sooner than later,
I'm sure of it. So what about you?
I've been, I took some time off work from Friday through today.
So I'm, wow, I wish I could say,you know, rested and relaxed
because I'm not, but I've been off work so it's sort of been
(02:44):
nice. So that's one less thing.
But yeah, we were at the, we were at the brewery the other
night and it was an interesting night.
It was a little bit different. We've we were trying some new
things and it was definitely funhaving another group there with
us. We had some, some good
interaction. We had some great clients and
(03:05):
made it a lot of fun so. Absolutely, yeah, Gary and Gary
and Stacey with Landon Legend Paranormal.
We're we're blessed to have Thanks for, you know, again.
Thanks guys. We've said this to you, you
know, so many times that night. But thanks for coming out and
and jumping in, you know, both feet coming off a long day being
at the Paracon down at Amherst. Amherst yeah, that just totally
(03:27):
escaped me. I want to say Crescent because I
know we're going to Crescent, but they're Paracon.
But you know that that energy helped a lot and some really
interesting folks as far as, youknow, mixed bag of experience,
you know, with the individuals who joined us and we had a full
house packed, sold out event. So that really.
Everybody showed up. Everybody, yeah, everybody got
there. Gosh.
(03:49):
So, you know, and that's, that'snot unusual, of course, because
if you pay for a ticket, you, you know, you come.
But sometimes then we do see some drop offs, I guess.
But but you know, and as always,by the end of the night, folks
are, you know, waning because, you know, we, we go into the,
you know, after we go after midnight, some folks never see
any, you know, about 59. So it's always funny when we
(04:10):
start with, you know, how long we're going to be here.
You see people's eyes pop, you know, you know, the ones that
have a 9:00 bedtime not far fromthat.
But I think, you know, we as faras equipment, we had stuff
happening with all of her stuff,which was great.
And you and I got to team together with Kirsten.
So which was really cool becauseI don't investigate with her
(04:32):
very often. And Alex?
And Alex, right, I didn't finish, you know, the energy
that that she brings is, is uniquely different because we're
used to each other. We, we spend a lot of time
together and we investigate together a lot.
We do this together, you know, So having her spin on things and
then Alex is a wild card. You know, he he is sensitive, a
sensitive individual. So he can pick up on things that
(04:55):
that we don't and has a, you know, the youthful energy that
we don't. So but yeah, when in the the bar
area was was really interesting and the dead bell never fails.
So, you know, we just kept having great activity around
that. And.
Yeah, the S no device was reallyhelpful.
That's the first time I've had that work in quite a long time
(05:17):
and and it was just popping the whole time.
So outstanding. Good night.
Yeah, it was good to work with Kirsten because she will be
stepping away for a little bit. Best of luck to her.
Taking on the the new role of mom, what he's doing so best
best with everything there when we're going to miss you and
we'll see you back soon though. So Jim has a comment here.
(05:39):
He said we need to do it behind the paranormal.
I think paranormal lens documentary.
That would be the most I I thinkpaint drying documentaries are
more fun than that. We're more interesting either
way. And good evening to Bert, so
good to see you so. Hey, Bert.
Good evening, Jim. Thanks for the comment.
We'll, we'll, we'll have our people look into that.
(06:02):
Yep. So, all right, well, anything
else Jamie, before we dive into this one?
No, let's do it. Let's get.
Let's get to it. What is the let's get?
I guess I got to start the Morris Jamal.
I got to find my my material from last time.
Hold on a second. No, no, no, Let me, let me, let
me, let me. Tonight, I'm working on
(06:25):
something that has a little bit of a level of controversy.
If you remember back to season 2, episode 35, Jamie, you shared
paranormal hoaxes, right? Yes.
So we are doing the, sorry, throwing the slides up here.
We're going to look at the box which may fall into that
(06:49):
category as well. Sorry, I'm trying to get
everything set up here. So we're going to look at the
origin of the Dipic in the Jewish culture, what connection
there is between this and the Dipic box and finally the
specific case of the Kevin Mannibic box and come to a
(07:09):
conclusion whether or not it is a paranormal artifact or modern
hoax. So are you, Are you ready,
Jamie? What do you think?
I'm going to have some popcorn for all this.
This is this is thrilling. I don't know if it's thrilling,
but we'll get started anyway. So to start, we need to look at
some Jewish mysticism. Merriam Webster's dictionary
(07:29):
defines the word dibbic as a wandering soul believed in
Jewish folklore to enter and control a living body until
exercised by a religious right. The word comes from the Yiddish
word DIBEK, dibbic, and before that the Latin word DIBBUQ, also
(07:50):
dibbic. But the word as we know it first
was used in print around 1903. If you look at Jewish folklore,
it is believed that the dibic isan evil spirit that enters into
a living person and cleaves to its soul.
The spirit would cause mental illness, talk through the mouth
of the person, and act as a separate personality to the
(08:11):
person. When looking at the Talmudic
text and studying the Kabbalah, the word dibic in its roots are
never used. The attachment of an evil or
unclean spirit can be found in these texts though, and the word
cleaved is used quite often. So taking a step further back,
let's look into the Kabbalistic belief of the soul and spirits.
(08:34):
While this is a subject is fascinating and we can spend
hours on ideas that have been put forth for this discussion,
we will narrow it down a bit. Kabbalah believes that the soul
goes through transmigration. This is to allow different
levels of experience for the soul and to learn on each of
these levels. This may include starting out as
a rock, becoming a plant and then an animal, and then next to
(08:56):
human. Each of these steps may take
several iterations. The goal is to learn with each
experience here on earth and eventually to be able to return
to the divine Spirit. This is how Judaism describes
heaven, which is reuniting with the source energy of God.
If a spirit has done something in one of these experiences that
(09:16):
God cannot forgive without distancing, distancing
themselves for a period of time,the spirit is considered to be
sent to hell. This is typically for a period
of time believed to be one year.The material I read suggested
thinking of it as a parent giving a child a time out.
Once the period is over, you're released with the expectations
(09:39):
of doing better. If the sin was committed that
God cannot forgive at all, such as mass murder or genocide, then
the soul cannot be reunited withGod.
At this point, the soul is not going to be reincarnated.
Instead, it will be sentenced topurgatory, or what is described
as wandering the earth as a ghost.
(10:01):
There's another way that souls can become wandering spirits.
If someone dies before their time or there are other issues
pulling them back to the physical world, the soul can
cause ghosts or poltergeist activity.
This can happen when a trapped soul feels it has something
unresolved or something unfinished in this lifetime
holding them in the earthly realm.
(10:22):
Other souls have wasted their time on earth not finishing a
lifetime's duty and objective. Soul possession can happen when
a lost soul is seeking any meansto get a body to house itself
in, especially in the case of premature death.
A soul can attach itself to a person, object, animal, or
place. These possessions can be
(10:43):
harmless and or destructive. If it becomes destructive and
exorcism have to be performed. So the Kabbalah believes there
are two types of soul attachment.
The first one is when spirits can take control of the bodies
of an unwilling host. It is based on the Kabbalah
concept of the of gilgul or transmigration found in the
(11:06):
Zohar and other such medieval sources.
The second one which I find interesting is Ibur Nashama soul
impregnation. It is a is a related concept
also found in the Kabbalistic sources.
It refers to the penetration of a Kabbalist soul by an
additional soul of an ancient sage who aids him in a spiritual
(11:28):
quest. Ibborn Nashama was a valued as a
positive, highly prized form of possession.
Now we're not going to be dealing with that tonight at
all, but I find that that could be really an interesting
subject. At some point.
We're going to look at transmigration today.
It is this attachment that involves civic.
(11:48):
An interesting theory that I found was that most attachment
happens to females, that the diebics had a connection within
their life and it is believed that most diebics were males.
When a diebic attaches itself toa human, an exorcism needs to be
performed to release the spirit.This is usually done by a great
rabbi who is typically a cabalist.
(12:11):
This ability to exercise dybbicsand to deal with in general with
possessions was first found among the Kabbalists of Safed,
land of Israel, and was disseminated through ha
geographical story collections and Kabbalistic texts.
The first recorded account of the Safed exorcism was in the
Maize Bunk, published in Basel in 16 O2.
(12:32):
There's also a Yiddish manuscript from Prague, dating
from the first half of the 17th century, giving a brief
description of three exorcisms performed by Yitzhak Benish in
1647. These historical texts describe
many rituals of exorcism, which is a complex process.
The process is different from the better known Catholic
(12:54):
exorcism, where a trained exorcist can rely on the
miraculous, the miraculous efficacy of the right itself.
Jewish lore requires the practitioner to negotiate with
the evil spirit and convince it to depart.
Not only do they have to convince the spirit to depart,
they need to convince it to leave the body between the big
(13:14):
toe and its nail to avoid permanent damage to the
possessed person. Then the exorcist must issue a
form firm warning to the spirit not to enter anyone else.
There's no place for the There is no place for the world of the
dead in the abode of the living,is the quote that they use.
So if a dybot can't enter a living being, then what can it
(13:36):
do other than wander? Well, that brings us to the
dibic box itself. The dibic box in question is
believed to be an antique wine box.
It first came to light in 2000 in a 2003 eBay auction listing
by Kevin Mannus. Kevin was a writer and owned a
furniture business in which he restored and sold many types of
furniture. The eBay listing when cut and
(13:59):
pasted into a Google doc and 11 point type single spacing is 4
pages long. I'm not going to read it here,
but you can do a Google search and find it in the Skeptoid
podcast #428 Brian Dunning paraphrased the listing well, so
I'm going to use that here. He says, and this he's talking
(14:21):
about man is here. His story goes, and I want to
emphasize that this is all just a story attached to an item
listed for sale, is that he bought it at a yard sale a few
years previously. And the family told him that
Grandma had brought it back fromPoland while escaping the
Holocaust and that she never andshe told them never to open it,
but they were quite anxious thathe should take it away, and if
(14:42):
they were, they were glad to getrid of it.
He took it back to his furnitureshop where it frightened away an
employee. The light bulbs had all
shattered and there was an inexplicable odor of cat urine.
Manus offered no explanation of why either he or the employee
attributed these events to the presence of the box, but no
matter, he opened it and found that it contained the following
(15:03):
items. I mean, of course this box was
said never to be opened. And what's he do?
Opens it. So it had. 1/19/28 US Wheat
Penny 11925 US Wheat Penny One small lock of blonde hair bound
with string. One small lock of black brown
(15:24):
hair bound with string. One small granite statue
engraved and gilded with Hebrew letters.
I have been told that the letters spelled out the word
Shalom. 1 dried rosebud. 1 gold wine cup.
One very strange black cast ironCandlestick holder with octopus
legs. He then cleaned it up and gave
(15:46):
it to his mother as a gift and then she immediately suffered a
stroke and was able to write hima note saying hate gift.
The implication was that his mother attributed the stroke to
the gift, so he gave it to his sister, who returned it with a
complaint that his doors wouldn't stay shut.
He gave it to his brother, who returned it saying it smelled
(16:07):
like urine. His girlfriend didn't want it
either, so he finally decided tosell it in the shop he'd bought
it for. It was found returned a few days
later at the door with a note saying This has a bad darkness.
Manus's tail went on to say he took it home only to have a
nightmare about an ugly old hag and when his family, when he
(16:28):
told his family about it, his brother, sister and girlfriend
all reported the same dream. His story concluded with the
following appeal. I would destroy this thing in a
second, except I really don't have any understanding of what I
may or may not be dealing with. I am afraid, and I do mean
afraid that if I destroy the cabinet, what it is, whatever it
(16:51):
is that seems to have come with me, the cabinet may just stay
here with me. I've been told that there are
people who shop on eBay that with that understand these kinds
of things and that specifically look for these kinds of items.
If you were one of these people,please, please buy this cabinet
and whatever you do with a thinglike this and do whatever you do
with a thing like this, help me.So like I said, that was
(17:15):
paraphrased down. It went into a little more
detail. Then there were also like 10 or
15 subnotes saying, you know, I'm not a religious person and
like going through a whole bunchof other stuff.
The auction closed in June of 2003, and for $140.00, Josef
Netsky became the proud owner ofthe wine cabinet.
(17:37):
I want to note at this point, the word dibic has not been
introduced into the conversation.
He eventually relisted the item on eBay 8 months after
purchasing it. He said that he blogged about
his experience with the box thatmade him want to get rid of it,
but I couldn't find such a blog in his listing.
He mentioned that after acquiring the box, his college
roommates had insomnia and illness, but it was likely
(18:00):
coincidental. He also mentioned needing car
repairs after he'd purchased thebox, as well as strong odors in
his house, a bug infestation, now functioning electronic
devices, and sort of like large vertical dark blurs in my
peripheral vision. It was at this point that he
that the item was listed as a haunted divot box.
(18:21):
He also ended in a similar plea as Manus.
That said, anyhow, for personal reasons, I verily, strongly do
not want this box anymore. I hope there's someone on eBay
that will take this thing off myhands.
I would just throw it in the woods or something, but I know
there has been some interest here in the past.
His plea worked and Nitsky made $280, doubling his investment.
(18:46):
The item was purchased by Jason Haxton.
Haxton was the director of the Museum of Osteopathic Medicine
at AT Still University in Missouri.
He also collects religious items.
Haxton was the professor to one of the roommates that was
affected by the box while it wasowned by Netsky and this is how
he had originally heard about the box.
(19:06):
Haxton claims that on the day after he received the box at his
office, he woke up looking like his right eye had been poked at
this at. As time went on, he developed
other symptoms including fatigue, metallic taste in his
mouth, and constant nasal congestion and a cough around
the house, Haxton says he occasionally smelled the
(19:27):
signature odors of cat urine andflowers.
My San Antonio News quotes Haxton as saying.
The day it arrived, I put my hands on it and it almost feels
like the thing collapsed into a liquid state.
I feel like a knife is coming into my gut.
I'm paralyzed in pain when I go to bed.
I have terrible dreams of a hag that seems to come with the box.
(19:50):
Being a researcher, Haxton dug into learning more about the
box. Haxton was aided by Rebecca
Etterey, an Orthodox Jewish bookkeeper who lives in Brooklyn
and whose father studied Kabbalah.
It was Etterey who helped uncover the purpose of the box.
The 2 doors on the outside open up just like a holy closet.
(20:10):
Or Aran Hakadesh, a receptacle for Torah scrolls.
Edward Lee says this particular size is used when going to
comfort the family of the deceased.
Edri says she was convinced the box was sacred and had
intentionally and had been intentionally stuffed with some
sort of spirit. This was done deliberately for a
(20:31):
specific purpose. She believes that to put an end
to the misfortune, the box needed a formal Jewish burial
involving A10 man, minion or prayer group.
If you look at what was found inthe box, it definitely has items
that would be considered fishes or keepsakes.
Pennies with one's birth year and locks of hair are common
(20:53):
traditions for preserving a keepsake of a dead family
member. These things would incorporate a
memory and possibly a tie to some part of the spirit world.
Haxton went on to write a book in the Dypic Box.
In 2011 he published the book The Divot Box, and in 2012 the
film The Possession was released, based on the story of
the Divot Box. He also maintained the Divot Box
(21:16):
website for many years, though it is no longer online.
I've tried to search for it and it's not there.
One source states that eventually he saw it Religious
and paranormal help to have the entity sealed in the box, at
which point he buried it. He kept the location hidden for
years until he could figure out the truth or find the right
(21:38):
person to help it out. Or maybe he was just waiting for
the right offer to come in. Apparently, he donated the box
to Zic Baggins in 2016. During his four hour live
Halloween special in 2018, Zac planned on opening the box live
on television. Ultimately, he didn't end up
(22:01):
opening it on the show. He said that his production
began to fall apart as the scheduled time arrived.
On April 7th, 2020, Zach and histeam started recording an
episode about the Dibic box as he planned on opening it.
You have to remember we are now in in lockdown time frame.
(22:22):
Once they took the glass lid offthe Dibic box, the team started
feeling anxious and I'll they ended up leaving it that way
overnight with security cameras running.
They left for the night. That night, Baggins claims to
have had two nightmares, one involving his his pet and the
other one involving getting sickwith COVID.
(22:46):
The cameras activated at camera focused on the box activated at
4:53 AM. The footage captured, according
to Baggins, shows a mist escaping out-of-the-box.
In looking at the footage myself, I'm not convinced that
it was a mist. I've that sort of looks to me
like some sort of light crossingthe screen.
(23:06):
Baggins says that in a single frame, he sees eyes that
resemble a 19th century illustration of a demon.
On April 8th, he opened the box.As he opened it, he said he felt
as though something exited the box and went into the museum.
They used several devices and got 2 words.
The first was Kevin, they think backing going back to the
(23:28):
original owner, and the second was evil.
They then caught a sound on a parabolic microphone that they
claimed was a child's voice. To me, it sounded like a cat
meowing. The team did measure a change in
temperature as the box was opened, rising from 86° to 91
degrees. So that's a fairly big jump for
(23:50):
just opening this box. Using an SLS camera, they
recorded an abnormality that supposedly exited the box.
Of course, they all felt sick asthey walked it through the
museum. Aaron passed out and had a
disembodied voice threatening him.
Typical Ghost Adventures fashion.
They then started yelling and losing control.
(24:13):
I don't think that there was much more in this episode that
was worth watching. So that's where I stopped.
And everything I've read says they didn't find anything else
after that. Now, we need to keep in mind
that this was in the middle of the COVID pandemic.
So somebody passing out could have been a lot of different
things. So who knows?
The box is still on display at Baggins Museum.
(24:35):
So typically, this is where we might say, Jamie, do you think
it is haunted or not? But this story has a footnote.
In 2021, Kevin Maness admitted to writer Charles Moss the box
was his of his own creation. Anna said.
I'm a creative writer. The Dibic Box is a story that I
(24:59):
created, and the Dibic Box storyhas done exactly what I intended
it to do when I posted it 20 years ago.
When asked what his attention was, he said it was to become an
interactive Horror Story in realtime.
He said that he bought the cabinet at a yard sale.
He carved the back, created the distance and added the tokens to
(25:20):
the box, and then fabricated thestory for his eBay post.
When one researcher reached out to two of his Kevin's friends,
Kurt Morris and Matthew Shaggy Christensen, who worked with
Manus at a bar called Club Underground in Beaverton, OR at
the time, they said the hair in the divot box, That was my hair.
(25:41):
Christensen confesses. Kevin is one of the most
brilliant people that I've ever met.
Morse tells me over the phone specific box was Kevin at a low
point needing some money and in his brilliant mind came up with
an incredible story that he knewwould sell and it became the
phenomenon that it is now. Now, not one interesting point
here is Kevin didn't really makemuch off of this, the story of
(26:06):
this, if you want to, if we believe everything so far, he
basically made $140 and that's where his prophet ended.
Now Kevin said it wasn't the money that made him do it, but
relationship problems with the girlfriend and a host of other
bad luck events. He says he channeled all of that
(26:27):
negative energy into his tall tale.
At the time. I created the the, the Dybek
box. It was during Yom Kippur and the
Day of Atonement. I created the box while praying
and asking for forgiveness for all of the sins that I had
committed, that I knew about, and perhaps even more important,
the sins I hadn't committed thatI didn't know about, says Manus.
(26:48):
Apparently not everything was totally made-up.
He did give the box to his mother on Halloween and she did
have a stroke. Manus claims that he did tell
Yosefnitsky the story was a fabrication, but that he never
told Haxton. Some believe that the two of
them may have worked together tofurther the story, but both
adamantly deny collusion. In fact, Haxton still believes
(27:12):
that there is truth in the story.
His theory is that the powers ofthe box are real and that maybe
Manus himself using Kabbalah. The story keeps growing.
The term divot box didn't even exist before Manus came up with
it. As he embellished his story over
the years, Kenny Biddle investigated the box and found
(27:33):
the exact same box for sale. He also found this Facebook post
from Manus dated October 24th, 2015.
So this is before some of these other things have come about.
I am the original creator of thestory of the Dybuk box which
appeared as one of the My eBay posts back in 2003.
The idea that the Dybuk boxes have some kind of history prior
(27:55):
to my story, and the idea that aDybuk box could contain anything
other than a Dybuk, along with any deviation to the type of its
contents I created to be inside the dibic box is laughable at
best. How about this?
If you or anyone else can find any reference to a dibic box
(28:16):
anywhere in history prior to my eBay post, I'll pay you $100,000
in. Tattoo your name on my forehead.
So another thing that I found interesting is that Yusuf Netsky
has never been found for an interview.
Is this another part of the fabrication?
One thing that we do know do know is that Manus created
(28:37):
something that went from a storyto folklore to big business.
You can buy haunted divot boxes online.
Find tons of YouTube's video YouTube videos of people opening
them. If you want to take a road trip
to Las Vegas, spend $54. You can see the original divot
box at the Haunted museum. So that's where I got what I've
(29:01):
got. Here are some sources for my
research. thehauntedmuseum.com. inverse.com. back slash Input.
Neon reviewjournal.com. Los Angeles Times It Jinx in a
Box by Leslie Gorstein, July 25th, 2004.
San Antonio News Story of haunted boxes isn't Just a Tale
(29:24):
dreamed up in Hollywood. By Jessica Velasco September
21st, 2012 jewishvirtuallibrary.org
medium.com The Cabal, The Kabbalistic Afterlife By Sherry
Larch So Jamie, what do you think?
(29:44):
Wow, you know, it starts out sounding so possible and then,
you know, like anything else, when people get time to think
and talk, they over, they tell you everything you know, like
that's so you know, you kind of have to believe perhaps that the
truth really is that it's a yardsale find and you know, a great
(30:08):
story. I I, I took some notes here as
we went. So I have a couple things I
would like to talk through. I, I find it interesting and I,
we came across this and I forgetwhere in the past, but the one
year of possession was the, the assumption, you know, for the,
for the divot to take over someone should it come into your
(30:30):
body. And I think that's really like,
why one year, right? Because it's signed a lease, you
know, what's the deal? Like?
Is it a contract that has to getout?
Well, the one year that I was referring to is the time that
God needed to be separated from.That wasn't a divot, that was
if. You were going to.
Hell yeah. But but yes, I have heard that
before as well. I've heard, I've heard that one
(30:52):
year window of in, in other areas as well.
And it's like in back in the olden days, we'll call it that,
a year was a very long time, youknow, so, and it still is.
I mean, 365 days no matter what,what year where you are in time,
it's the same thing but didn't change.
But it just seems like it's, it was a different thing where a
year was like this big window oftime where now we think
(31:15):
differently. Life expectancies were shorter.
So maybe yours were differently that way.
Maybe. And then the other thing is, you
know, as our friends Tony Rathman and and those guys, time
is a human construct. Yes.
So why would why would a spiritual thing be tied to a
(31:38):
human construct? That's all a whole mother rabbit
hole to go down. But anyway, right, So very.
Fair. Interesting that there were the
female attachments by male spirits.
So, you know, it's just, to me, it was just another way of men
controlling women. Well.
You know, like there weren't women controlling men because
(32:01):
that would never happen, right? You know, like a SO.
But there there was more, there was more that there about how
that would cause confusion, likeinternal confusion between a
male spirit and a female body. And then in that, although they
talked about how possession and Salem witch trials and other
(32:26):
witch trials throughout history pointed to a mental mental
illness, right. So, you know, but yes, I found
that interesting as well that so.
Yeah, and you know, with the, the spirit exiting the body
between the on the big toe, between the toe and the nail,
you know, aren't, aren't there better ways to go out than
(32:47):
there? I mean that.
Apparently that was the safest place for it to we.
Have actual ways of of, you know, releasing things
physically than that. So.
Yeah. All right.
Very strange. Very, very strange.
I learned something from Kevin Manis, though.
(33:08):
I did. And that's when grandma tells
you not to open something. You don't freaking open it.
Exactly. You know, and you know,
absolutely the curiosity that I think anybody would have when
someone tells you not to do something, what's the first
thing you want to do? Exactly that.
So now there there is some expansion of the story saying
(33:33):
that there are 10 dip boxes out there and you know, this is 1 of
10 and you know, the, the apparently the second one now is
at the Haunted Museum as well. It's, you know, it's just more
mojumbo there, Jamie, I think. Zack, Zack Baggins.
Yeah. All right, Sure, sure.
(33:56):
I I one thing I did find interesting though, and, and the
things that were inside, you know, the wheat pennies, you
know, for even even if he were going to go back like 20 years,
you know, into the early 2000s, wheat pennies were valued.
We knew that. So why put them in there and not
have them as savings? You know, like to, to spend
them. Why select wheat pennies versus
(34:18):
a common property of any kind ofthat same year?
You know, that's just you. That's rather unique of a choice
and to have them. Well, I think, I think in the
years that they were, if they were tied to somebody's birth
year that those were the only pennies there were like we they
wouldn't have had a regular penny of a 1921 or 1920.
(34:38):
Five. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
I was thinking they were, they were, they were special edition
ones. But you're right.
Back then they were not OK, but just just odd.
They were wheat pennies. Like why not just pick a penny
from like the 40s or 30s? But there it was weird that they
were called out as wheat penniestoo.
Those like specifically. Yeah, so.
It was a it was an odd call to to make and and again, if it's a
(35:01):
hoax, that's just that's, you know, intentional.
So he really put some thought tothat to use those.
Maybe maybe it's because it well, like for the story, it got
my attention. So maybe that's the case.
You know, all of this, though, all of this brought to mind the
the treasures that you couldn't find, you can find at antique
(35:24):
stores and flea markets and thrift shops and, you know, all
kinds of places where people don't know what they have and
they've done whatever they want to do to either donate it to the
save the thrift stores and such or obviously sell it or consign
it. Whatever may be at the other
shops or flea markets or what not.
(35:45):
I don't remember who has this but I know someone in our team
at one point, whether it's someone still with our team or
not. Found at the Burning Bridge
antique store in Columbia, PAA. Very small violin case, a
miniature case that went open. Had basically a vampire
(36:06):
prevention kit inside. Stains and a hammer and a vial
of, you know, what would be holywater across.
Not what you'd expect. Like, you know, you expect to
open up and find it a musical instrument, but everything had a
little pockets and it was a veltbelt felt felt or velvet, you
know, I forget which one interior.
So it was meant to be, you know,pretty.
(36:29):
But you know, like that's one ofthe you never know.
And that's why you open everything too, I guess.
But you know then, and there wasa store in New Holland, I think
it's now closed, at least temporarily, where they had all
kinds of interesting droves of things.
So, you know, it's, you just gotto get out there and look around
for some stuff and you will findsome cool things.
(36:49):
This box, regardless of what it it might be on the paranormal
side, is still a pretty cool thing.
You know, when it was open and then when the original slides,
you know, it's got the glassware, it's got the bottles
inside of it. It's just like a mini liquor
cabinet. Like who doesn't want that?
You know, you can hide your stuff away, but, you know,
whatever, maybe, you know, get out there and get out there and
(37:10):
shop and look at these places and, and see what kind of magic
you can find. It's pretty cool.
Yeah. And I'll, I'll say one more
thing about I'm, I've always been a fan of these places.
So I grew up, you know, in Columbia, so we always have, we
have a ton of antique stores. I just like the niche here.
So, you know, just wandering through the stores, you know,
you always see these really coolthings and like being a kid
(37:32):
here, I never had any money, youknow, But you know, now as I'm
an adult, I'm like, how much forthis, you know, Then then the
next question is, do I really need it?
And that's where the the no comes in, of course.
But I can't say I've never picked up some stuff just
because I thought it was cool. This box fits that.
Yeah. So with with the last part of
(37:56):
it, the belief for the the premise that there may be 10
total boxes out there somewhere.What where did the where does
this come from? The 10 like what that what makes
that number? I think, I think that is what
Manus kept adding to his story over the years.
(38:17):
Like he kept embellishing the story and I don't know if he
created more than which is where, where where the one.
I'm sorry, I'm horrible, horrible remembering names.
The the the professor is wondering if he actually did
(38:37):
create, did create this and put it in, you know, using like
curse the boxes themselves. Yeah, OK.
And that you know that it goes back to that theory.
Can we create paranormal by putting energy and thought into
something? Well, that's that's actually
(39:00):
Bert's comment here. Love antique stores, but be
careful what you bring home. You know, I think there is
something in that I do and you know, with, with respects to
that too, the the energy of someone who owned it and really
cherish something and loved it. You know, as their, their, their
(39:21):
most, some things are their mostprized possession.
We just don't know, you know, because we're honest.
They're not there, but if someone else had done the same,
you know, I can believe that their energy would have stayed
with it, you know, and that we, we see this with stuff, you
know, we, we see attachments allthe time, you know, like that,
that term comes up commonly. And that's usually a concern for
us at a paranormal event, you know, and, and leaving.
(39:42):
So you don't want to take anything home with you, right.
But what if that thing, that physical thing, I mean, I think
John Zapis has made a career here, you know, in, in his
paranormal museum as well. And it's collections.
He keeps these things and takes them from people.
We, we found them the monkey that David now has at his office
that David Armini or their teammate, you know, came from a,
(40:04):
a resident in the local area whoreally was having issues with
and, you know, asked us if we could take it for him.
So I, I certainly believe, I, I definitely believe that things
can become, can absorb the energy of someone if that's, if
it's that strong for him, absolutely.
(40:25):
Bert's comment here. If residual can be left in a
building, why not an object? Absolutely.
So I totally agree. Well, and, and you know the
other, the other part of this istransmigration.
The Jewish thought of transmigration believes that
everything has a spirit, like soeven an inanimate object can
(40:47):
have a spirit of some sort. A rock, Capri.
I mean, I guess trees don't technically inanimate, but you
know, you know, rocks and and water, like it all has spirits
and that. And that's sort of going back to
a Native American belief too. You know why?
You know that that box is made of trees.
(41:09):
So, you know, it all ties together, doesn't it?
You know? With us and you know, there's
we, we, we go back to the superstition episode way back,
you know, there. The reason we knock on wood is
that we are trying to get a blessing from the, the spirit of
the trees to help us get past something, you know, that we're
(41:32):
afraid of. So, or don't want something
negative to happen to us. We knock on wood.
There wasn't, you know, there were more trees than there were
furniture back then. So I'll go outside and hit, you
know, knock on the, on the Mapletree.
So, yeah, I, I totally understand that.
And it makes sense. Yeah.
(41:53):
So, well, I, I, I've asked a lotof questions, but where are you
here then? What do you think?
I'm I'm very skeptical on this one.
Do I Do I think it it's a possibility, but I'm pretty
skeptical. Well, I think that's us in
(42:13):
general, right? Like we are skeptical on it.
Not every, not everything is paranormal, first of all, you
know, and we want to find normalthings first that it could be
and then take those away and then what's left would be the
paranormal. So I think there's further
investigation or further study, you know, being in the
possession of of Zach Baggins, I'm sure it's in good hands and
(42:36):
we know where it is. So, you know, road trip to
Vegas, right? You know, I, I was out there for
work a little while back and over a year ago and I had some
free time, but I chose not to goonly because I, I, I don't have
an issue with Zac Bagans. I want to be clear on this.
(42:57):
I don't at all. I mean, I make fun and I carry
on. I think everybody does to some
degree because of the bombastic nature that he works with, you
know, his, his persona. But you know, I don't have a
problem supporting his business and things like that.
I just, there were so many otherthings to do in Vegas, you know,
especially I was at the bottom of the strip, it's at the top of
(43:17):
the strip, etcetera. So I just never made it, made it
up there. And it was so when the F1 was
there, which totally disrupted everything like, yeah, the whole
9 yards of that and the strip was closed, literally, I could
have found my way if I wanted to, kind of like really wanted
to. But it does.
You know, my thought was next time I'm back and I'm sure I'll
get back eventually, I will definitely want to check this
(43:39):
out. Knowing that the boxes are gives
me a greater reason to do so. But you know it, it's
interesting like to have to havethese all this physical stuff in
a space. I mean, you have to think
something's going on and, you know, the note of, of opening
the box and, you know, having activity happening around the
museum after, shortly after, therefore of it.
(44:00):
You know, how do you know it's not something else that's there
too, like an interaction thing? Yeah, it's, it's, it's mad thing
to think it's just, I mean, I guess wrong words.
It's kind of wonky, you know, like how, how can you separate
it from this one thing versus all this other stuff that's
there? Another, another antidote with
that in and actually Post Malone, I guess Post Malone
(44:24):
visited shortly after it was opened or whatever and Zach was
touching the box and Post Malonewas touching Zach.
So he wasn't touching the boxingdirectly, but he then had
several months of bad luck afterthat and you know, so he
attributes it to the divot box, so.
(44:44):
Well, you know, let's let's as Ikeep calling back on one
episode, you know, the episode of Robert the doll, you know,
believed to be possessed child'sdoll.
You know, if you disrespect him at the museum where the West
Matteo Museum and down in Key West, you know, if you go in
there and you just be disrespectful for him, you don't
(45:06):
ask for permission to take his picture.
You know, all of these things. And I read those stories in the
episode of people who wrote letters back saying I'm sorry,
you know, and try to apologize and get forgiveness from him
because they'd be, you know, badthings happen to them.
Shortly after leaving, a woman had an issue.
As soon as she stepped past the threshold of the museum to
leave, you know, she started having health issues.
So I mean, it's, it's possible. It really is.
(45:29):
Do you know how many believe this?
Right? That episode is one that we had
done that I had done a TikTok preview.
For yes, yes. Do you know how many comments we
got? I do, I remember.
For looking at into his eyes. Yep.
So yeah, there there was quite afew.
(45:49):
I, I recall I was, well, I'm notsurprised because again, you
know, it, it's, it's a superstition thing, right?
You know, even if you're safe than sorry, right.
Exactly. And and therefore you do what
you, you know, you do the, the, the you request forgiveness and
it, it certainly doesn't hurt. So.
(46:10):
Oh, Robert boy. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm
definitely on the skeptical on this.
So you know, it's a cute story. I mean, the guy admitted and
created it, right? That's that's the catch to me.
Like, you know, he doesn't have a need to tell us that.
And, you know, in in the story and like, because that's the
(46:31):
crafting, the craftiness of a good story is the fact that it
could be possible, you know, andthat tells you that you've done
it well. And we're here.
We're here all these years laterdiscussing this, like it could
still be possible, you know, Butthen why take the magic out of
it and the Mystic out of it by just, you know, kind of coming
(46:53):
up on three years later. Yeah, Yeah.
Here we are. So I'd like to believe it.
I think it's fascinating, you know, but in the same sense, you
know, I, I once, once that's done, you can't unhear it, you
can't Unsee it, whatever it is, you know, the evidence to prove
against it. So it's tough.
Yeah. Unless.
(47:15):
Unless a divot came to him and told him he had to say that.
See, now you're putting a whole new spin on it, Jamie.
Bam, there you go. Now I'm completely lost.
Maybe so so anyway, but I, I actually found some of the, the,
(47:39):
the kabbalistic beliefs really interesting.
Definitely would like to research that more.
Not that I'd turn it into an episode, but just sort of how
some of it matches some of my personal beliefs of, of life and
death and the spirit world. So.
Oh my gosh, you know how many times we've come across topics
here that have led to further investigation of our own on our
(48:01):
own time, you know, like for thefor the reading, there's always
more material out there and, youknow, evident more, more
material, more evidence, whatever it is keeps coming
forward, you know, so it's you never really done with the
topic. I think that's really cool.
That's the field, you know, we, we keep trying to learn more and
(48:22):
experience more and report back more so you know that others can
understand and grow with it as well.
So I mean, it's the beauty of the paranormal.
I think it's the beauty of anything, you know, really.
Another good, another example ofthat is one that you're actually
going to be investigating soon. Wilson Castle.
Yeah. Physically.
A lot, a lot of new, a lot of new information has been
(48:44):
discovered since we did our episode on that a while ago.
So maybe it's time to do a refresher on that one, huh
Jamie? Maybe.
Well, we're certainly going to talk about it.
I can't argue that. So, all right, here's a lengthy
post from Heather and see if we can get all this.
(49:04):
I guess it all shows up there, she says.
My father recently passed away as a child.
My first memory of him was sitting at a desk tying flies
for fly fishing. I was visiting my stepmom today
and she gave me a very small a very old small box that had tiny
hand tied fly that my dad did. I could tell it was from when I
(49:25):
was little. I could feel him so strongly
that I when I was holding it andthat in my hand started shaking.
My hand started shaking. Sorry.
Definitely residual energy can be in objects.
He put a lot of time and energy into them and I completely
understand that very well, said Heather.
(49:45):
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that,
Heather. That was really cool, OK.
You have timing too, like yeah. Well, exactly.
And that's how it always works. You know, we, you know, I think
back to, you know, being a kid with my grandparents, you know,
the things that that my grandpa,he was a Carpenter and things he
made, you know, I know we have things here, you know, from
(50:08):
Grant other grandparents, such grandparents, you know, also a
Carpenter Craftsman. There are some some fantastic
things here. So, you know, like those then,
if nothing else, they have the sentimental value that they were
made by a loved 1, you know, andthat energy is is, you know,
maybe that's a projected energy of you, us, whoever we are, you
know, for that thing that it is energy coming from it.
(50:31):
But we don't we again, it goes back to the point you made.
Well, well, a well made point earlier is like, could it be
that we're creating these thingstoo?
Possibly. Amazing.
It's a really good subject, Sir.Thank you.
Yeah, yeah. And this is one that I'm like,
I'm not going to get an hour outof this.
(50:51):
And you know, here we are. We're getting there right So.
All right. Well, you ready to move on?
Sure. Yeah, let's let's jump to what's
coming up. Sure thing.
So upcoming episodes next week, next next week, Oh my gosh, put
s s at the end. Everything we're I'm going to
tackle Men in black and the weekafter on June 3rd.
(51:13):
Jamie, I would not recommend tackling the Men in Black.
Not a good idea. I want to, I want to tell you
something. Yeah, I've this this has been on
the books for us for a while. You know, it's only been on the
screen for last week or two. But every time I start looking
at this, I cannot get the hook of the song Men in Black out of
my head. And I'm waiting for next week to
(51:35):
be over so I can finally releaseit, you know, like, so not that
I don't like it, but it's like, you know, you know, it's as
heavy. June 3rd, Jet's going to tackle
Menahune. I'm saying tackle again like
you're going to tackle Manahune.I don't think you're going to.
We're going to explore Manahune.The week after, I'm going to
(51:56):
explore the Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary.
And in a very cool episode that I'm looking forward to, Jed's
going to talk about the hauntings of his childhood home.
And then as we are getting over closer to July 4th, we're going
to tackle Gettysburg. I'm going to take on Gettysburg,
PA and, and a lot of the stuff that's going on there over all
(52:17):
these years since the Civil War.So, and then we're going to wrap
up season 1, believe it or not, July 1st.
So holy cow, Season 2, sorry, Season 2, July 1st.
So things coming up in the next couple weeks.
Have you started thinking about what your favorite episodes are,
Jamie? They're all my favorite.
Sorry, you can't. It's like kids, you can't pick
(52:37):
one. Yeah, you got to narrow it down.
We can't talk about all all of all 40, some of them, almost 50
of them in in one one night. Fine, fine.
All right, I'll get you a little.
Bit you have time to think aboutit.
I do. I do.
You know what I'm going to do? Like 10 minutes before we come
on, I'll be looking at the setlist.
(52:58):
No, I'm kidding. Well, we have a couple more to
go so that you know. I know right?
I can't pick 1 yet. I got to wait and every, every
week, every week I have a favorite, you know, like,
because this, I just, this is somuch fun to do.
And I, you know, I learned something in the, the, the stuff
(53:18):
that I do the search and sort and so forth.
And I learned something from youwhen you present as well.
You know, it's, it's, it's and if, if we weren't having fun
doing this, we wouldn't still bedoing it.
I know that. But you know, and again, there's
so much stuff to learn and so many perspectives of it that are
out there in the world, so it's really cool.
Yeah, definitely. All right, so investigations, so
(53:42):
not an investigation in June forus at the brewery, but we are
going to head out on June 28th to the haunted Crescent
Sanatorium in prison. They're Paracon.
It's a Paracon in horror. So it's going to be a little bit
interesting. So come out to see us at that
day at Crescent Sanatorium out in mid state.
I believe it is 11 to 5 I'm not mistaken ticketed event if I'm
(54:03):
not mistaken there as well I. Think that'll be on the next
screen so. OK, Well, good.
OK. Good, I think maybe.
Then I believe there is also a way to get a ticket for the
evening investor nighttime investigation after the
Powercon, which should be very, very interesting.
Such a such a cool place as you know and all of the folks who
will be there that day. If everyone sticks around that
will a lot of fun. Plus the guests.
So super cool and I've lost my mouse.
(54:27):
So hold on one second, but July 26th we'll be back at Booby's
Brewery in Mount Joy, PA along with August 16th.
And I think the July 26th episode or episode investigation
is, is a pair of unity event, ifyou're not mistaken.
Again, it maybe, maybe, maybe. We we don't have, I haven't
heard any as who's coming yet, but we're talking.
(54:50):
About time. We have plenty of time to figure
that one out. There's the mouse.
All right, so again, August 16th, September 27th, spooky
season is officially underway then and then October 11th and
18th, the double dip on that month right before Halloween.
So and some tickets. These events are actually
starting to sell a while too, soyou know plenty of time to get
(55:10):
tickets, but don't wait if you know you want to make it to
these events just to be safe. That way you're covered.
I mean, I noticed, you notice, but, Bird said.
And we enjoy watching and participating.
Oh, thanks for like having you here too.
So Chucks all right. And well, I double clicked, Dang
it. And here's the slide for the
(55:31):
horror and Paracon out at Crescent, the haunted Crescent
sanatorium again. That is coming up on June 26th.
Oh, it's 12 to six. My mistake.
So I was thinking 11 to 5. I guess I wanted to get get
there sooner and get done sooner.
I don't know, but there will there will be a lot of vendors
there, US included, of course, alot of cool things to see.
I'm not sure about personalities, if any, but
(55:53):
probably not what. We're all personalities, right?
I was going to say we all have personality.
Not that I'm a personality or either of us, but you know,
we're just us. But we all have personalities.
Some of us have multiples. This is true all.
Right, so get your tickets now and come out and hang out with
us. That'll be a lot of fun that
(56:13):
day. We'll have stickers so if
nothing else. If nothing else, Jotnick's
paranormal stickers and paranormal stickers so
absolutely. I finally got my Jotnick sticker
this weekend. I was so excited.
It's all my bag now. Yeah, Yep, I saw it.
Yep, looks good. All right, and then how to find
us. You know, we're here every
(56:34):
Tuesday night at 9 on Facebook and YouTube.
So you know, feel free to jump in anytime.
But you know, if you're not catching this year, we're out
there in the world on all of thestreaming services the next day
on Wednesday, sometime in the early afternoon, I'm sure it
seems to be a noon between noon and one.
But Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, few others.
We're on TikTok, Instagram as well.
(56:57):
And then there's a new thing in there somewhere.
We're at the very top. At the very top we have we have
our website up. It's not completely complete,
but it's up and it's usable. So WWW because old.
I always say that first, but jotNicks, jot dash
nicksparanormal.com, J OTT-NY XPARA parameter spell
(57:19):
paranormal, anywhere you want tofind it.
And then that's it. So lots of stuff, lots of ways
to connect, you know, feel free to leave us comments, especially
how much I bumble and mumble through all of the stuff I
should know very well by now. But any episode comments or any
thoughts to a something an episode you'd like us to do or
(57:40):
see something from us? And we're always open to
suggestion. We self produce so we can move
that schedule you saw around at the beginning.
Any way we want to just need a little time to investigate it
and research a little bit and just make sure we do it justice.
But we're always happy to tackleand do some listener submission
work, so. And let us and let us know what
(58:00):
your favorite episodes from the past season have been.
Yeah, absolutely. Or the past two seasons for that
matter. Yeah, there's 104 episodes back
there somewhere behind us. So, you know, there's lots of
choices. So.
All right, Sir, I, I think we covered this.
Thank you so much for this topic.
Again, it was brought a lot of thought.
(58:21):
And, you know, I know I I guess it's probably a settled thing
based on the information provided by by Kevin, Amanda
Smith. I guess that means it's settled.
But is it really? Yeah.
I don't know. Like you said, the dipik made me
do it. I mean, I mean, he was praying.
(58:49):
So it could very well have been a spiritual, you know.
Moment. He had a moment, right?
So all right, well, on that note, I want to say thank you to
everybody for for sticking with us for the another hour every
time you come out and join us. We appreciate it.
And whether you're listening to us live or whether you were
coming and catching the restreamthe next day.
(59:09):
We we really appreciate it. So thank you.
All right, thank you. And we will see you next week.
Same place, same time. Watch out for Jamie Tackle and
Men in Black. See you then.
All right, Good night. If I was ready to go, we'd be
ready to go.
The. Good evening and welcome to the
Paranormal Lens podcast presented by Jatnix Paranormal.
I'm here Chad Thomas, your host with my Co host, Jamie Wagner.
(00:55):
How are you tonight, Jamie? Chad, I'm wonderful.
How are you doing? I'm doing doing great except for
the little intro being the wrong1.
You know, I guess that means you're up with the the.
Yeah, I got to do it again. All right, fine, I'll do.
I'll do more Estremel all over. That's a cool place.
I'm happy to. It sounds like it I'm I'm, you
know, definitely want to get there so.
(01:16):
Well, you know, what you guys don't get to see on on the back
end with us is that when you know, the stuff starts, there's
there's like a kind of like a start up page.
And as it was coming in, the slide popped up for the, you
know, the cover slide popped up and Chad was that's the wrong 1.
And it took all I had not just to bust out laughing while we
come in because we're right behind it.
(01:37):
So how it happens? Welcome to live theater right
here. Exactly.
Yeah, so. Oh well.
So you know, I can still do my topic though, and maybe people
don't. It is yet so, but anyway.
How was it? How was?
How was your week, Jamie? It's been good.
It's been really good. You know things.
Time is flowing by once again and we're back.
So we did. We had some fun Saturday evening
(02:00):
at that booby's brewery with ourpublic investigation and our
Power Unity event. We have a trainee in the house,
so we got to do some on, on thaton that, some outside drive.
Well, I could do indoor driving,but got to get out and do some
driving Yesterday my, my knuckles finally have stopped
being white for dear life. But yeah, she did good.
(02:23):
So good. We get there sooner than later,
I'm sure of it. So what about you?
I've been, I took some time off work from Friday through today.
So I'm, wow, I wish I could say,you know, rested and relaxed
because I'm not, but I've been off work so it's sort of been
(02:44):
nice. So that's one less thing.
But yeah, we were at the, we were at the brewery the other
night and it was an interesting night.
It was a little bit different. We've we were trying some new
things and it was definitely funhaving another group there with
us. We had some, some good
interaction. We had some great clients and
(03:05):
made it a lot of fun so. Absolutely, yeah, Gary and Gary
and Stacey with Landon Legend Paranormal.
We're we're blessed to have Thanks for, you know, again.
Thanks guys. We've said this to you, you
know, so many times that night. But thanks for coming out and
and jumping in, you know, both feet coming off a long day being
at the Paracon down at Amherst. Amherst yeah, that just totally
(03:27):
escaped me. I want to say Crescent because I
know we're going to Crescent, but they're Paracon.
But you know that that energy helped a lot and some really
interesting folks as far as, youknow, mixed bag of experience,
you know, with the individuals who joined us and we had a full
house packed, sold out event. So that really.
Everybody showed up. Everybody, yeah, everybody got
there. Gosh.
(03:49):
So, you know, and that's, that'snot unusual, of course, because
if you pay for a ticket, you, you know, you come.
But sometimes then we do see some drop offs, I guess.
But but you know, and as always,by the end of the night, folks
are, you know, waning because, you know, we, we go into the,
you know, after we go after midnight, some folks never see
any, you know, about 59. So it's always funny when we
(04:10):
start with, you know, how long we're going to be here.
You see people's eyes pop, you know, you know, the ones that
have a 9:00 bedtime not far fromthat.
But I think, you know, we as faras equipment, we had stuff
happening with all of her stuff,which was great.
And you and I got to team together with Kirsten.
So which was really cool becauseI don't investigate with her
(04:32):
very often. And Alex?
And Alex, right, I didn't finish, you know, the energy
that that she brings is, is uniquely different because we're
used to each other. We, we spend a lot of time
together and we investigate together a lot.
We do this together, you know, So having her spin on things and
then Alex is a wild card. You know, he he is sensitive, a
sensitive individual. So he can pick up on things that
(04:55):
that we don't and has a, you know, the youthful energy that
we don't. So but yeah, when in the the bar
area was was really interesting and the dead bell never fails.
So, you know, we just kept having great activity around
that. And.
Yeah, the S no device was reallyhelpful.
That's the first time I've had that work in quite a long time
(05:17):
and and it was just popping the whole time.
So outstanding. Good night.
Yeah, it was good to work with Kirsten because she will be
stepping away for a little bit. Best of luck to her.
Taking on the the new role of mom, what he's doing so best
best with everything there when we're going to miss you and
we'll see you back soon though. So Jim has a comment here.
(05:39):
He said we need to do it behind the paranormal.
I think paranormal lens documentary.
That would be the most I I thinkpaint drying documentaries are
more fun than that. We're more interesting either
way. And good evening to Bert, so
good to see you so. Hey, Bert.
Good evening, Jim. Thanks for the comment.
We'll, we'll, we'll have our people look into that.
(06:02):
Yep. So, all right, well, anything
else Jamie, before we dive into this one?
No, let's do it. Let's get.
Let's get to it. What is the let's get?
I guess I got to start the Morris Jamal.
I got to find my my material from last time.
Hold on a second. No, no, no, Let me, let me, let
me, let me. Tonight, I'm working on
(06:25):
something that has a little bit of a level of controversy.
If you remember back to season 2, episode 35, Jamie, you shared
paranormal hoaxes, right? Yes.
So we are doing the, sorry, throwing the slides up here.
We're going to look at the box which may fall into that
(06:49):
category as well. Sorry, I'm trying to get
everything set up here. So we're going to look at the
origin of the Dipic in the Jewish culture, what connection
there is between this and the Dipic box and finally the
specific case of the Kevin Mannibic box and come to a
(07:09):
conclusion whether or not it is a paranormal artifact or modern
hoax. So are you, Are you ready,
Jamie? What do you think?
I'm going to have some popcorn for all this.
This is this is thrilling. I don't know if it's thrilling,
but we'll get started anyway. So to start, we need to look at
some Jewish mysticism. Merriam Webster's dictionary
(07:29):
defines the word dibbic as a wandering soul believed in
Jewish folklore to enter and control a living body until
exercised by a religious right. The word comes from the Yiddish
word DIBEK, dibbic, and before that the Latin word DIBBUQ, also
(07:50):
dibbic. But the word as we know it first
was used in print around 1903. If you look at Jewish folklore,
it is believed that the dibic isan evil spirit that enters into
a living person and cleaves to its soul.
The spirit would cause mental illness, talk through the mouth
of the person, and act as a separate personality to the
(08:11):
person. When looking at the Talmudic
text and studying the Kabbalah, the word dibic in its roots are
never used. The attachment of an evil or
unclean spirit can be found in these texts though, and the word
cleaved is used quite often. So taking a step further back,
let's look into the Kabbalistic belief of the soul and spirits.
(08:34):
While this is a subject is fascinating and we can spend
hours on ideas that have been put forth for this discussion,
we will narrow it down a bit. Kabbalah believes that the soul
goes through transmigration. This is to allow different
levels of experience for the soul and to learn on each of
these levels. This may include starting out as
a rock, becoming a plant and then an animal, and then next to
(08:56):
human. Each of these steps may take
several iterations. The goal is to learn with each
experience here on earth and eventually to be able to return
to the divine Spirit. This is how Judaism describes
heaven, which is reuniting with the source energy of God.
If a spirit has done something in one of these experiences that
(09:16):
God cannot forgive without distancing, distancing
themselves for a period of time,the spirit is considered to be
sent to hell. This is typically for a period
of time believed to be one year.The material I read suggested
thinking of it as a parent giving a child a time out.
Once the period is over, you're released with the expectations
(09:39):
of doing better. If the sin was committed that
God cannot forgive at all, such as mass murder or genocide, then
the soul cannot be reunited withGod.
At this point, the soul is not going to be reincarnated.
Instead, it will be sentenced topurgatory, or what is described
as wandering the earth as a ghost.
(10:01):
There's another way that souls can become wandering spirits.
If someone dies before their time or there are other issues
pulling them back to the physical world, the soul can
cause ghosts or poltergeist activity.
This can happen when a trapped soul feels it has something
unresolved or something unfinished in this lifetime
holding them in the earthly realm.
(10:22):
Other souls have wasted their time on earth not finishing a
lifetime's duty and objective. Soul possession can happen when
a lost soul is seeking any meansto get a body to house itself
in, especially in the case of premature death.
A soul can attach itself to a person, object, animal, or
place. These possessions can be
(10:43):
harmless and or destructive. If it becomes destructive and
exorcism have to be performed. So the Kabbalah believes there
are two types of soul attachment.
The first one is when spirits can take control of the bodies
of an unwilling host. It is based on the Kabbalah
concept of the of gilgul or transmigration found in the
(11:06):
Zohar and other such medieval sources.
The second one which I find interesting is Ibur Nashama soul
impregnation. It is a is a related concept
also found in the Kabbalistic sources.
It refers to the penetration of a Kabbalist soul by an
additional soul of an ancient sage who aids him in a spiritual
(11:28):
quest. Ibborn Nashama was a valued as a
positive, highly prized form of possession.
Now we're not going to be dealing with that tonight at
all, but I find that that could be really an interesting
subject. At some point.
We're going to look at transmigration today.
It is this attachment that involves civic.
(11:48):
An interesting theory that I found was that most attachment
happens to females, that the diebics had a connection within
their life and it is believed that most diebics were males.
When a diebic attaches itself toa human, an exorcism needs to be
performed to release the spirit.This is usually done by a great
rabbi who is typically a cabalist.
(12:11):
This ability to exercise dybbicsand to deal with in general with
possessions was first found among the Kabbalists of Safed,
land of Israel, and was disseminated through ha
geographical story collections and Kabbalistic texts.
The first recorded account of the Safed exorcism was in the
Maize Bunk, published in Basel in 16 O2.
(12:32):
There's also a Yiddish manuscript from Prague, dating
from the first half of the 17th century, giving a brief
description of three exorcisms performed by Yitzhak Benish in
1647. These historical texts describe
many rituals of exorcism, which is a complex process.
The process is different from the better known Catholic
(12:54):
exorcism, where a trained exorcist can rely on the
miraculous, the miraculous efficacy of the right itself.
Jewish lore requires the practitioner to negotiate with
the evil spirit and convince it to depart.
Not only do they have to convince the spirit to depart,
they need to convince it to leave the body between the big
(13:14):
toe and its nail to avoid permanent damage to the
possessed person. Then the exorcist must issue a
form firm warning to the spirit not to enter anyone else.
There's no place for the There is no place for the world of the
dead in the abode of the living,is the quote that they use.
So if a dybot can't enter a living being, then what can it
(13:36):
do other than wander? Well, that brings us to the
dibic box itself. The dibic box in question is
believed to be an antique wine box.
It first came to light in 2000 in a 2003 eBay auction listing
by Kevin Mannus. Kevin was a writer and owned a
furniture business in which he restored and sold many types of
furniture. The eBay listing when cut and
(13:59):
pasted into a Google doc and 11 point type single spacing is 4
pages long. I'm not going to read it here,
but you can do a Google search and find it in the Skeptoid
podcast #428 Brian Dunning paraphrased the listing well, so
I'm going to use that here. He says, and this he's talking
(14:21):
about man is here. His story goes, and I want to
emphasize that this is all just a story attached to an item
listed for sale, is that he bought it at a yard sale a few
years previously. And the family told him that
Grandma had brought it back fromPoland while escaping the
Holocaust and that she never andshe told them never to open it,
but they were quite anxious thathe should take it away, and if
(14:42):
they were, they were glad to getrid of it.
He took it back to his furnitureshop where it frightened away an
employee. The light bulbs had all
shattered and there was an inexplicable odor of cat urine.
Manus offered no explanation of why either he or the employee
attributed these events to the presence of the box, but no
matter, he opened it and found that it contained the following
(15:03):
items. I mean, of course this box was
said never to be opened. And what's he do?
Opens it. So it had. 1/19/28 US Wheat
Penny 11925 US Wheat Penny One small lock of blonde hair bound
with string. One small lock of black brown
(15:24):
hair bound with string. One small granite statue
engraved and gilded with Hebrew letters.
I have been told that the letters spelled out the word
Shalom. 1 dried rosebud. 1 gold wine cup.
One very strange black cast ironCandlestick holder with octopus
legs. He then cleaned it up and gave
(15:46):
it to his mother as a gift and then she immediately suffered a
stroke and was able to write hima note saying hate gift.
The implication was that his mother attributed the stroke to
the gift, so he gave it to his sister, who returned it with a
complaint that his doors wouldn't stay shut.
He gave it to his brother, who returned it saying it smelled
(16:07):
like urine. His girlfriend didn't want it
either, so he finally decided tosell it in the shop he'd bought
it for. It was found returned a few days
later at the door with a note saying This has a bad darkness.
Manus's tail went on to say he took it home only to have a
nightmare about an ugly old hag and when his family, when he
(16:28):
told his family about it, his brother, sister and girlfriend
all reported the same dream. His story concluded with the
following appeal. I would destroy this thing in a
second, except I really don't have any understanding of what I
may or may not be dealing with. I am afraid, and I do mean
afraid that if I destroy the cabinet, what it is, whatever it
(16:51):
is that seems to have come with me, the cabinet may just stay
here with me. I've been told that there are
people who shop on eBay that with that understand these kinds
of things and that specifically look for these kinds of items.
If you were one of these people,please, please buy this cabinet
and whatever you do with a thinglike this and do whatever you do
with a thing like this, help me.So like I said, that was
(17:15):
paraphrased down. It went into a little more
detail. Then there were also like 10 or
15 subnotes saying, you know, I'm not a religious person and
like going through a whole bunchof other stuff.
The auction closed in June of 2003, and for $140.00, Josef
Netsky became the proud owner ofthe wine cabinet.
(17:37):
I want to note at this point, the word dibic has not been
introduced into the conversation.
He eventually relisted the item on eBay 8 months after
purchasing it. He said that he blogged about
his experience with the box thatmade him want to get rid of it,
but I couldn't find such a blog in his listing.
He mentioned that after acquiring the box, his college
roommates had insomnia and illness, but it was likely
(18:00):
coincidental. He also mentioned needing car
repairs after he'd purchased thebox, as well as strong odors in
his house, a bug infestation, now functioning electronic
devices, and sort of like large vertical dark blurs in my
peripheral vision. It was at this point that he
that the item was listed as a haunted divot box.
(18:21):
He also ended in a similar plea as Manus.
That said, anyhow, for personal reasons, I verily, strongly do
not want this box anymore. I hope there's someone on eBay
that will take this thing off myhands.
I would just throw it in the woods or something, but I know
there has been some interest here in the past.
His plea worked and Nitsky made $280, doubling his investment.
(18:46):
The item was purchased by Jason Haxton.
Haxton was the director of the Museum of Osteopathic Medicine
at AT Still University in Missouri.
He also collects religious items.
Haxton was the professor to one of the roommates that was
affected by the box while it wasowned by Netsky and this is how
he had originally heard about the box.
(19:06):
Haxton claims that on the day after he received the box at his
office, he woke up looking like his right eye had been poked at
this at. As time went on, he developed
other symptoms including fatigue, metallic taste in his
mouth, and constant nasal congestion and a cough around
the house, Haxton says he occasionally smelled the
(19:27):
signature odors of cat urine andflowers.
My San Antonio News quotes Haxton as saying.
The day it arrived, I put my hands on it and it almost feels
like the thing collapsed into a liquid state.
I feel like a knife is coming into my gut.
I'm paralyzed in pain when I go to bed.
I have terrible dreams of a hag that seems to come with the box.
(19:50):
Being a researcher, Haxton dug into learning more about the
box. Haxton was aided by Rebecca
Etterey, an Orthodox Jewish bookkeeper who lives in Brooklyn
and whose father studied Kabbalah.
It was Etterey who helped uncover the purpose of the box.
The 2 doors on the outside open up just like a holy closet.
(20:10):
Or Aran Hakadesh, a receptacle for Torah scrolls.
Edward Lee says this particular size is used when going to
comfort the family of the deceased.
Edri says she was convinced the box was sacred and had
intentionally and had been intentionally stuffed with some
sort of spirit. This was done deliberately for a
(20:31):
specific purpose. She believes that to put an end
to the misfortune, the box needed a formal Jewish burial
involving A10 man, minion or prayer group.
If you look at what was found inthe box, it definitely has items
that would be considered fishes or keepsakes.
Pennies with one's birth year and locks of hair are common
(20:53):
traditions for preserving a keepsake of a dead family
member. These things would incorporate a
memory and possibly a tie to some part of the spirit world.
Haxton went on to write a book in the Dypic Box.
In 2011 he published the book The Divot Box, and in 2012 the
film The Possession was released, based on the story of
the Divot Box. He also maintained the Divot Box
(21:16):
website for many years, though it is no longer online.
I've tried to search for it and it's not there.
One source states that eventually he saw it Religious
and paranormal help to have the entity sealed in the box, at
which point he buried it. He kept the location hidden for
years until he could figure out the truth or find the right
(21:38):
person to help it out. Or maybe he was just waiting for
the right offer to come in. Apparently, he donated the box
to Zic Baggins in 2016. During his four hour live
Halloween special in 2018, Zac planned on opening the box live
on television. Ultimately, he didn't end up
(22:01):
opening it on the show. He said that his production
began to fall apart as the scheduled time arrived.
On April 7th, 2020, Zach and histeam started recording an
episode about the Dibic box as he planned on opening it.
You have to remember we are now in in lockdown time frame.
(22:22):
Once they took the glass lid offthe Dibic box, the team started
feeling anxious and I'll they ended up leaving it that way
overnight with security cameras running.
They left for the night. That night, Baggins claims to
have had two nightmares, one involving his his pet and the
other one involving getting sickwith COVID.
(22:46):
The cameras activated at camera focused on the box activated at
4:53 AM. The footage captured, according
to Baggins, shows a mist escaping out-of-the-box.
In looking at the footage myself, I'm not convinced that
it was a mist. I've that sort of looks to me
like some sort of light crossingthe screen.
(23:06):
Baggins says that in a single frame, he sees eyes that
resemble a 19th century illustration of a demon.
On April 8th, he opened the box.As he opened it, he said he felt
as though something exited the box and went into the museum.
They used several devices and got 2 words.
The first was Kevin, they think backing going back to the
(23:28):
original owner, and the second was evil.
They then caught a sound on a parabolic microphone that they
claimed was a child's voice. To me, it sounded like a cat
meowing. The team did measure a change in
temperature as the box was opened, rising from 86° to 91
degrees. So that's a fairly big jump for
(23:50):
just opening this box. Using an SLS camera, they
recorded an abnormality that supposedly exited the box.
Of course, they all felt sick asthey walked it through the
museum. Aaron passed out and had a
disembodied voice threatening him.
Typical Ghost Adventures fashion.
They then started yelling and losing control.
(24:13):
I don't think that there was much more in this episode that
was worth watching. So that's where I stopped.
And everything I've read says they didn't find anything else
after that. Now, we need to keep in mind
that this was in the middle of the COVID pandemic.
So somebody passing out could have been a lot of different
things. So who knows?
The box is still on display at Baggins Museum.
(24:35):
So typically, this is where we might say, Jamie, do you think
it is haunted or not? But this story has a footnote.
In 2021, Kevin Maness admitted to writer Charles Moss the box
was his of his own creation. Anna said.
I'm a creative writer. The Dibic Box is a story that I
(24:59):
created, and the Dibic Box storyhas done exactly what I intended
it to do when I posted it 20 years ago.
When asked what his attention was, he said it was to become an
interactive Horror Story in realtime.
He said that he bought the cabinet at a yard sale.
He carved the back, created the distance and added the tokens to
(25:20):
the box, and then fabricated thestory for his eBay post.
When one researcher reached out to two of his Kevin's friends,
Kurt Morris and Matthew Shaggy Christensen, who worked with
Manus at a bar called Club Underground in Beaverton, OR at
the time, they said the hair in the divot box, That was my hair.
(25:41):
Christensen confesses. Kevin is one of the most
brilliant people that I've ever met.
Morse tells me over the phone specific box was Kevin at a low
point needing some money and in his brilliant mind came up with
an incredible story that he knewwould sell and it became the
phenomenon that it is now. Now, not one interesting point
here is Kevin didn't really makemuch off of this, the story of
(26:06):
this, if you want to, if we believe everything so far, he
basically made $140 and that's where his prophet ended.
Now Kevin said it wasn't the money that made him do it, but
relationship problems with the girlfriend and a host of other
bad luck events. He says he channeled all of that
(26:27):
negative energy into his tall tale.
At the time. I created the the, the Dybek
box. It was during Yom Kippur and the
Day of Atonement. I created the box while praying
and asking for forgiveness for all of the sins that I had
committed, that I knew about, and perhaps even more important,
the sins I hadn't committed thatI didn't know about, says Manus.
(26:48):
Apparently not everything was totally made-up.
He did give the box to his mother on Halloween and she did
have a stroke. Manus claims that he did tell
Yosefnitsky the story was a fabrication, but that he never
told Haxton. Some believe that the two of
them may have worked together tofurther the story, but both
adamantly deny collusion. In fact, Haxton still believes
(27:12):
that there is truth in the story.
His theory is that the powers ofthe box are real and that maybe
Manus himself using Kabbalah. The story keeps growing.
The term divot box didn't even exist before Manus came up with
it. As he embellished his story over
the years, Kenny Biddle investigated the box and found
(27:33):
the exact same box for sale. He also found this Facebook post
from Manus dated October 24th, 2015.
So this is before some of these other things have come about.
I am the original creator of thestory of the Dybuk box which
appeared as one of the My eBay posts back in 2003.
The idea that the Dybuk boxes have some kind of history prior
(27:55):
to my story, and the idea that aDybuk box could contain anything
other than a Dybuk, along with any deviation to the type of its
contents I created to be inside the dibic box is laughable at
best. How about this?
If you or anyone else can find any reference to a dibic box
(28:16):
anywhere in history prior to my eBay post, I'll pay you $100,000
in. Tattoo your name on my forehead.
So another thing that I found interesting is that Yusuf Netsky
has never been found for an interview.
Is this another part of the fabrication?
One thing that we do know do know is that Manus created
(28:37):
something that went from a storyto folklore to big business.
You can buy haunted divot boxes online.
Find tons of YouTube's video YouTube videos of people opening
them. If you want to take a road trip
to Las Vegas, spend $54. You can see the original divot
box at the Haunted museum. So that's where I got what I've
(29:01):
got. Here are some sources for my
research. thehauntedmuseum.com. inverse.com. back slash Input.
Neon reviewjournal.com. Los Angeles Times It Jinx in a
Box by Leslie Gorstein, July 25th, 2004.
San Antonio News Story of haunted boxes isn't Just a Tale
(29:24):
dreamed up in Hollywood. By Jessica Velasco September
21st, 2012 jewishvirtuallibrary.org
medium.com The Cabal, The Kabbalistic Afterlife By Sherry
Larch So Jamie, what do you think?
(29:44):
Wow, you know, it starts out sounding so possible and then,
you know, like anything else, when people get time to think
and talk, they over, they tell you everything you know, like
that's so you know, you kind of have to believe perhaps that the
truth really is that it's a yardsale find and you know, a great
(30:08):
story. I I, I took some notes here as
we went. So I have a couple things I
would like to talk through. I, I find it interesting and I,
we came across this and I forgetwhere in the past, but the one
year of possession was the, the assumption, you know, for the,
for the divot to take over someone should it come into your
(30:30):
body. And I think that's really like,
why one year, right? Because it's signed a lease, you
know, what's the deal? Like?
Is it a contract that has to getout?
Well, the one year that I was referring to is the time that
God needed to be separated from.That wasn't a divot, that was
if. You were going to.
Hell yeah. But but yes, I have heard that
before as well. I've heard, I've heard that one
(30:52):
year window of in, in other areas as well.
And it's like in back in the olden days, we'll call it that,
a year was a very long time, youknow, so, and it still is.
I mean, 365 days no matter what,what year where you are in time,
it's the same thing but didn't change.
But it just seems like it's, it was a different thing where a
year was like this big window oftime where now we think
(31:15):
differently. Life expectancies were shorter.
So maybe yours were differently that way.
Maybe. And then the other thing is, you
know, as our friends Tony Rathman and and those guys, time
is a human construct. Yes.
So why would why would a spiritual thing be tied to a
(31:38):
human construct? That's all a whole mother rabbit
hole to go down. But anyway, right, So very.
Fair. Interesting that there were the
female attachments by male spirits.
So, you know, it's just, to me, it was just another way of men
controlling women. Well.
You know, like there weren't women controlling men because
(32:01):
that would never happen, right? You know, like a SO.
But there there was more, there was more that there about how
that would cause confusion, likeinternal confusion between a
male spirit and a female body. And then in that, although they
talked about how possession and Salem witch trials and other
(32:26):
witch trials throughout history pointed to a mental mental
illness, right. So, you know, but yes, I found
that interesting as well that so.
Yeah, and you know, with the, the spirit exiting the body
between the on the big toe, between the toe and the nail,
you know, aren't, aren't there better ways to go out than
(32:47):
there? I mean that.
Apparently that was the safest place for it to we.
Have actual ways of of, you know, releasing things
physically than that. So.
Yeah. All right.
Very strange. Very, very strange.
I learned something from Kevin Manis, though.
(33:08):
I did. And that's when grandma tells
you not to open something. You don't freaking open it.
Exactly. You know, and you know,
absolutely the curiosity that I think anybody would have when
someone tells you not to do something, what's the first
thing you want to do? Exactly that.
So now there there is some expansion of the story saying
(33:33):
that there are 10 dip boxes out there and you know, this is 1 of
10 and you know, the, the apparently the second one now is
at the Haunted Museum as well. It's, you know, it's just more
mojumbo there, Jamie, I think. Zack, Zack Baggins.
Yeah. All right, Sure, sure.
(33:56):
I I one thing I did find interesting though, and, and the
things that were inside, you know, the wheat pennies, you
know, for even even if he were going to go back like 20 years,
you know, into the early 2000s, wheat pennies were valued.
We knew that. So why put them in there and not
have them as savings? You know, like to, to spend
them. Why select wheat pennies versus
(34:18):
a common property of any kind ofthat same year?
You know, that's just you. That's rather unique of a choice
and to have them. Well, I think, I think in the
years that they were, if they were tied to somebody's birth
year that those were the only pennies there were like we they
wouldn't have had a regular penny of a 1921 or 1920.
(34:38):
Five. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
I was thinking they were, they were, they were special edition
ones. But you're right.
Back then they were not OK, but just just odd.
They were wheat pennies. Like why not just pick a penny
from like the 40s or 30s? But there it was weird that they
were called out as wheat penniestoo.
Those like specifically. Yeah, so.
It was a it was an odd call to to make and and again, if it's a
(35:01):
hoax, that's just that's, you know, intentional.
So he really put some thought tothat to use those.
Maybe maybe it's because it well, like for the story, it got
my attention. So maybe that's the case.
You know, all of this, though, all of this brought to mind the
the treasures that you couldn't find, you can find at antique
(35:24):
stores and flea markets and thrift shops and, you know, all
kinds of places where people don't know what they have and
they've done whatever they want to do to either donate it to the
save the thrift stores and such or obviously sell it or consign
it. Whatever may be at the other
shops or flea markets or what not.
(35:45):
I don't remember who has this but I know someone in our team
at one point, whether it's someone still with our team or
not. Found at the Burning Bridge
antique store in Columbia, PAA. Very small violin case, a
miniature case that went open. Had basically a vampire
(36:06):
prevention kit inside. Stains and a hammer and a vial
of, you know, what would be holywater across.
Not what you'd expect. Like, you know, you expect to
open up and find it a musical instrument, but everything had a
little pockets and it was a veltbelt felt felt or velvet, you
know, I forget which one interior.
So it was meant to be, you know,pretty.
(36:29):
But you know, like that's one ofthe you never know.
And that's why you open everything too, I guess.
But you know then, and there wasa store in New Holland, I think
it's now closed, at least temporarily, where they had all
kinds of interesting droves of things.
So, you know, it's, you just gotto get out there and look around
for some stuff and you will findsome cool things.
(36:49):
This box, regardless of what it it might be on the paranormal
side, is still a pretty cool thing.
You know, when it was open and then when the original slides,
you know, it's got the glassware, it's got the bottles
inside of it. It's just like a mini liquor
cabinet. Like who doesn't want that?
You know, you can hide your stuff away, but, you know,
whatever, maybe, you know, get out there and get out there and
(37:10):
shop and look at these places and, and see what kind of magic
you can find. It's pretty cool.
Yeah. And I'll, I'll say one more
thing about I'm, I've always been a fan of these places.
So I grew up, you know, in Columbia, so we always have, we
have a ton of antique stores. I just like the niche here.
So, you know, just wandering through the stores, you know,
you always see these really coolthings and like being a kid
(37:32):
here, I never had any money, youknow, But you know, now as I'm
an adult, I'm like, how much forthis, you know, Then then the
next question is, do I really need it?
And that's where the the no comes in, of course.
But I can't say I've never picked up some stuff just
because I thought it was cool. This box fits that.
Yeah. So with with the last part of
(37:56):
it, the belief for the the premise that there may be 10
total boxes out there somewhere.What where did the where does
this come from? The 10 like what that what makes
that number? I think, I think that is what
Manus kept adding to his story over the years.
(38:17):
Like he kept embellishing the story and I don't know if he
created more than which is where, where where the one.
I'm sorry, I'm horrible, horrible remembering names.
The the the professor is wondering if he actually did
(38:37):
create, did create this and put it in, you know, using like
curse the boxes themselves. Yeah, OK.
And that you know that it goes back to that theory.
Can we create paranormal by putting energy and thought into
something? Well, that's that's actually
(39:00):
Bert's comment here. Love antique stores, but be
careful what you bring home. You know, I think there is
something in that I do and you know, with, with respects to
that too, the the energy of someone who owned it and really
cherish something and loved it. You know, as their, their, their
(39:21):
most, some things are their mostprized possession.
We just don't know, you know, because we're honest.
They're not there, but if someone else had done the same,
you know, I can believe that their energy would have stayed
with it, you know, and that we, we see this with stuff, you
know, we, we see attachments allthe time, you know, like that,
that term comes up commonly. And that's usually a concern for
us at a paranormal event, you know, and, and leaving.
(39:42):
So you don't want to take anything home with you, right.
But what if that thing, that physical thing, I mean, I think
John Zapis has made a career here, you know, in, in his
paranormal museum as well. And it's collections.
He keeps these things and takes them from people.
We, we found them the monkey that David now has at his office
that David Armini or their teammate, you know, came from a,
(40:04):
a resident in the local area whoreally was having issues with
and, you know, asked us if we could take it for him.
So I, I certainly believe, I, I definitely believe that things
can become, can absorb the energy of someone if that's, if
it's that strong for him, absolutely.
(40:25):
Bert's comment here. If residual can be left in a
building, why not an object? Absolutely.
So I totally agree. Well, and, and you know the
other, the other part of this istransmigration.
The Jewish thought of transmigration believes that
everything has a spirit, like soeven an inanimate object can
(40:47):
have a spirit of some sort. A rock, Capri.
I mean, I guess trees don't technically inanimate, but you
know, you know, rocks and and water, like it all has spirits
and that. And that's sort of going back to
a Native American belief too. You know why?
You know that that box is made of trees.
(41:09):
So, you know, it all ties together, doesn't it?
You know? With us and you know, there's
we, we, we go back to the superstition episode way back,
you know, there. The reason we knock on wood is
that we are trying to get a blessing from the, the spirit of
the trees to help us get past something, you know, that we're
(41:32):
afraid of. So, or don't want something
negative to happen to us. We knock on wood.
There wasn't, you know, there were more trees than there were
furniture back then. So I'll go outside and hit, you
know, knock on the, on the Mapletree.
So, yeah, I, I totally understand that.
And it makes sense. Yeah.
(41:53):
So, well, I, I, I've asked a lotof questions, but where are you
here then? What do you think?
I'm I'm very skeptical on this one.
Do I Do I think it it's a possibility, but I'm pretty
skeptical. Well, I think that's us in
(42:13):
general, right? Like we are skeptical on it.
Not every, not everything is paranormal, first of all, you
know, and we want to find normalthings first that it could be
and then take those away and then what's left would be the
paranormal. So I think there's further
investigation or further study, you know, being in the
possession of of Zach Baggins, I'm sure it's in good hands and
(42:36):
we know where it is. So, you know, road trip to
Vegas, right? You know, I, I was out there for
work a little while back and over a year ago and I had some
free time, but I chose not to goonly because I, I, I don't have
an issue with Zac Bagans. I want to be clear on this.
(42:57):
I don't at all. I mean, I make fun and I carry
on. I think everybody does to some
degree because of the bombastic nature that he works with, you
know, his, his persona. But you know, I don't have a
problem supporting his business and things like that.
I just, there were so many otherthings to do in Vegas, you know,
especially I was at the bottom of the strip, it's at the top of
(43:17):
the strip, etcetera. So I just never made it, made it
up there. And it was so when the F1 was
there, which totally disrupted everything like, yeah, the whole
9 yards of that and the strip was closed, literally, I could
have found my way if I wanted to, kind of like really wanted
to. But it does.
You know, my thought was next time I'm back and I'm sure I'll
get back eventually, I will definitely want to check this
(43:39):
out. Knowing that the boxes are gives
me a greater reason to do so. But you know it, it's
interesting like to have to havethese all this physical stuff in
a space. I mean, you have to think
something's going on and, you know, the note of, of opening
the box and, you know, having activity happening around the
museum after, shortly after, therefore of it.
(44:00):
You know, how do you know it's not something else that's there
too, like an interaction thing? Yeah, it's, it's, it's mad thing
to think it's just, I mean, I guess wrong words.
It's kind of wonky, you know, like how, how can you separate
it from this one thing versus all this other stuff that's
there? Another, another antidote with
that in and actually Post Malone, I guess Post Malone
(44:24):
visited shortly after it was opened or whatever and Zach was
touching the box and Post Malonewas touching Zach.
So he wasn't touching the boxingdirectly, but he then had
several months of bad luck afterthat and you know, so he
attributes it to the divot box, so.
(44:44):
Well, you know, let's let's as Ikeep calling back on one
episode, you know, the episode of Robert the doll, you know,
believed to be possessed child'sdoll.
You know, if you disrespect him at the museum where the West
Matteo Museum and down in Key West, you know, if you go in
there and you just be disrespectful for him, you don't
(45:06):
ask for permission to take his picture.
You know, all of these things. And I read those stories in the
episode of people who wrote letters back saying I'm sorry,
you know, and try to apologize and get forgiveness from him
because they'd be, you know, badthings happen to them.
Shortly after leaving, a woman had an issue.
As soon as she stepped past the threshold of the museum to
leave, you know, she started having health issues.
So I mean, it's, it's possible. It really is.
(45:29):
Do you know how many believe this?
Right? That episode is one that we had
done that I had done a TikTok preview.
For yes, yes. Do you know how many comments we
got? I do, I remember.
For looking at into his eyes. Yep.
So yeah, there there was quite afew.
(45:49):
I, I recall I was, well, I'm notsurprised because again, you
know, it, it's, it's a superstition thing, right?
You know, even if you're safe than sorry, right.
Exactly. And and therefore you do what
you, you know, you do the, the, the you request forgiveness and
it, it certainly doesn't hurt. So.
(46:10):
Oh, Robert boy. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm
definitely on the skeptical on this.
So you know, it's a cute story. I mean, the guy admitted and
created it, right? That's that's the catch to me.
Like, you know, he doesn't have a need to tell us that.
And, you know, in in the story and like, because that's the
(46:31):
crafting, the craftiness of a good story is the fact that it
could be possible, you know, andthat tells you that you've done
it well. And we're here.
We're here all these years laterdiscussing this, like it could
still be possible, you know, Butthen why take the magic out of
it and the Mystic out of it by just, you know, kind of coming
(46:53):
up on three years later. Yeah, Yeah.
Here we are. So I'd like to believe it.
I think it's fascinating, you know, but in the same sense, you
know, I, I once, once that's done, you can't unhear it, you
can't Unsee it, whatever it is, you know, the evidence to prove
against it. So it's tough.
Yeah. Unless.
(47:15):
Unless a divot came to him and told him he had to say that.
See, now you're putting a whole new spin on it, Jamie.
Bam, there you go. Now I'm completely lost.
Maybe so so anyway, but I, I actually found some of the, the,
(47:39):
the kabbalistic beliefs really interesting.
Definitely would like to research that more.
Not that I'd turn it into an episode, but just sort of how
some of it matches some of my personal beliefs of, of life and
death and the spirit world. So.
Oh my gosh, you know how many times we've come across topics
here that have led to further investigation of our own on our
(48:01):
own time, you know, like for thefor the reading, there's always
more material out there and, youknow, evident more, more
material, more evidence, whatever it is keeps coming
forward, you know, so it's you never really done with the
topic. I think that's really cool.
That's the field, you know, we, we keep trying to learn more and
(48:22):
experience more and report back more so you know that others can
understand and grow with it as well.
So I mean, it's the beauty of the paranormal.
I think it's the beauty of anything, you know, really.
Another good, another example ofthat is one that you're actually
going to be investigating soon. Wilson Castle.
Yeah. Physically.
A lot, a lot of new, a lot of new information has been
(48:44):
discovered since we did our episode on that a while ago.
So maybe it's time to do a refresher on that one, huh
Jamie? Maybe.
Well, we're certainly going to talk about it.
I can't argue that. So, all right, here's a lengthy
post from Heather and see if we can get all this.
(49:04):
I guess it all shows up there, she says.
My father recently passed away as a child.
My first memory of him was sitting at a desk tying flies
for fly fishing. I was visiting my stepmom today
and she gave me a very small a very old small box that had tiny
hand tied fly that my dad did. I could tell it was from when I
(49:25):
was little. I could feel him so strongly
that I when I was holding it andthat in my hand started shaking.
My hand started shaking. Sorry.
Definitely residual energy can be in objects.
He put a lot of time and energy into them and I completely
understand that very well, said Heather.
(49:45):
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that,
Heather. That was really cool, OK.
You have timing too, like yeah. Well, exactly.
And that's how it always works. You know, we, you know, I think
back to, you know, being a kid with my grandparents, you know,
the things that that my grandpa,he was a Carpenter and things he
made, you know, I know we have things here, you know, from
(50:08):
Grant other grandparents, such grandparents, you know, also a
Carpenter Craftsman. There are some some fantastic
things here. So, you know, like those then,
if nothing else, they have the sentimental value that they were
made by a loved 1, you know, andthat energy is is, you know,
maybe that's a projected energy of you, us, whoever we are, you
know, for that thing that it is energy coming from it.
(50:31):
But we don't we again, it goes back to the point you made.
Well, well, a well made point earlier is like, could it be
that we're creating these thingstoo?
Possibly. Amazing.
It's a really good subject, Sir.Thank you.
Yeah, yeah. And this is one that I'm like,
I'm not going to get an hour outof this.
(50:51):
And you know, here we are. We're getting there right So.
All right. Well, you ready to move on?
Sure. Yeah, let's let's jump to what's
coming up. Sure thing.
So upcoming episodes next week, next next week, Oh my gosh, put
s s at the end. Everything we're I'm going to
tackle Men in black and the weekafter on June 3rd.
(51:13):
Jamie, I would not recommend tackling the Men in Black.
Not a good idea. I want to, I want to tell you
something. Yeah, I've this this has been on
the books for us for a while. You know, it's only been on the
screen for last week or two. But every time I start looking
at this, I cannot get the hook of the song Men in Black out of
my head. And I'm waiting for next week to
(51:35):
be over so I can finally releaseit, you know, like, so not that
I don't like it, but it's like, you know, you know, it's as
heavy. June 3rd, Jet's going to tackle
Menahune. I'm saying tackle again like
you're going to tackle Manahune.I don't think you're going to.
We're going to explore Manahune.The week after, I'm going to
(51:56):
explore the Brushy Mountain State Penitentiary.
And in a very cool episode that I'm looking forward to, Jed's
going to talk about the hauntings of his childhood home.
And then as we are getting over closer to July 4th, we're going
to tackle Gettysburg. I'm going to take on Gettysburg,
PA and, and a lot of the stuff that's going on there over all
(52:17):
these years since the Civil War.So, and then we're going to wrap
up season 1, believe it or not, July 1st.
So holy cow, Season 2, sorry, Season 2, July 1st.
So things coming up in the next couple weeks.
Have you started thinking about what your favorite episodes are,
Jamie? They're all my favorite.
Sorry, you can't. It's like kids, you can't pick
(52:37):
one. Yeah, you got to narrow it down.
We can't talk about all all of all 40, some of them, almost 50
of them in in one one night. Fine, fine.
All right, I'll get you a little.
Bit you have time to think aboutit.
I do. I do.
You know what I'm going to do? Like 10 minutes before we come
on, I'll be looking at the setlist.
(52:58):
No, I'm kidding. Well, we have a couple more to
go so that you know. I know right?
I can't pick 1 yet. I got to wait and every, every
week, every week I have a favorite, you know, like,
because this, I just, this is somuch fun to do.
And I, you know, I learned something in the, the, the stuff
(53:18):
that I do the search and sort and so forth.
And I learned something from youwhen you present as well.
You know, it's, it's, it's and if, if we weren't having fun
doing this, we wouldn't still bedoing it.
I know that. But you know, and again, there's
so much stuff to learn and so many perspectives of it that are
out there in the world, so it's really cool.
Yeah, definitely. All right, so investigations, so
(53:42):
not an investigation in June forus at the brewery, but we are
going to head out on June 28th to the haunted Crescent
Sanatorium in prison. They're Paracon.
It's a Paracon in horror. So it's going to be a little bit
interesting. So come out to see us at that
day at Crescent Sanatorium out in mid state.
I believe it is 11 to 5 I'm not mistaken ticketed event if I'm
(54:03):
not mistaken there as well I. Think that'll be on the next
screen so. OK, Well, good.
OK. Good, I think maybe.
Then I believe there is also a way to get a ticket for the
evening investor nighttime investigation after the
Powercon, which should be very, very interesting.
Such a such a cool place as you know and all of the folks who
will be there that day. If everyone sticks around that
will a lot of fun. Plus the guests.
So super cool and I've lost my mouse.
(54:27):
So hold on one second, but July 26th we'll be back at Booby's
Brewery in Mount Joy, PA along with August 16th.
And I think the July 26th episode or episode investigation
is, is a pair of unity event, ifyou're not mistaken.
Again, it maybe, maybe, maybe. We we don't have, I haven't
heard any as who's coming yet, but we're talking.
(54:50):
About time. We have plenty of time to figure
that one out. There's the mouse.
All right, so again, August 16th, September 27th, spooky
season is officially underway then and then October 11th and
18th, the double dip on that month right before Halloween.
So and some tickets. These events are actually
starting to sell a while too, soyou know plenty of time to get
(55:10):
tickets, but don't wait if you know you want to make it to
these events just to be safe. That way you're covered.
I mean, I noticed, you notice, but, Bird said.
And we enjoy watching and participating.
Oh, thanks for like having you here too.
So Chucks all right. And well, I double clicked, Dang
it. And here's the slide for the
(55:31):
horror and Paracon out at Crescent, the haunted Crescent
sanatorium again. That is coming up on June 26th.
Oh, it's 12 to six. My mistake.
So I was thinking 11 to 5. I guess I wanted to get get
there sooner and get done sooner.
I don't know, but there will there will be a lot of vendors
there, US included, of course, alot of cool things to see.
I'm not sure about personalities, if any, but
(55:53):
probably not what. We're all personalities, right?
I was going to say we all have personality.
Not that I'm a personality or either of us, but you know,
we're just us. But we all have personalities.
Some of us have multiples. This is true all.
Right, so get your tickets now and come out and hang out with
us. That'll be a lot of fun that
(56:13):
day. We'll have stickers so if
nothing else. If nothing else, Jotnick's
paranormal stickers and paranormal stickers so
absolutely. I finally got my Jotnick sticker
this weekend. I was so excited.
It's all my bag now. Yeah, Yep, I saw it.
Yep, looks good. All right, and then how to find
us. You know, we're here every
(56:34):
Tuesday night at 9 on Facebook and YouTube.
So you know, feel free to jump in anytime.
But you know, if you're not catching this year, we're out
there in the world on all of thestreaming services the next day
on Wednesday, sometime in the early afternoon, I'm sure it
seems to be a noon between noon and one.
But Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, few others.
We're on TikTok, Instagram as well.
(56:57):
And then there's a new thing in there somewhere.
We're at the very top. At the very top we have we have
our website up. It's not completely complete,
but it's up and it's usable. So WWW because old.
I always say that first, but jotNicks, jot dash
nicksparanormal.com, J OTT-NY XPARA parameter spell
(57:19):
paranormal, anywhere you want tofind it.
And then that's it. So lots of stuff, lots of ways
to connect, you know, feel free to leave us comments, especially
how much I bumble and mumble through all of the stuff I
should know very well by now. But any episode comments or any
thoughts to a something an episode you'd like us to do or
(57:40):
see something from us? And we're always open to
suggestion. We self produce so we can move
that schedule you saw around at the beginning.
Any way we want to just need a little time to investigate it
and research a little bit and just make sure we do it justice.
But we're always happy to tackleand do some listener submission
work, so. And let us and let us know what
(58:00):
your favorite episodes from the past season have been.
Yeah, absolutely. Or the past two seasons for that
matter. Yeah, there's 104 episodes back
there somewhere behind us. So, you know, there's lots of
choices. So.
All right, Sir, I, I think we covered this.
Thank you so much for this topic.
Again, it was brought a lot of thought.
(58:21):
And, you know, I know I I guess it's probably a settled thing
based on the information provided by by Kevin, Amanda
Smith. I guess that means it's settled.
But is it really? Yeah.
I don't know. Like you said, the dipik made me
do it. I mean, I mean, he was praying.
(58:49):
So it could very well have been a spiritual, you know.
Moment. He had a moment, right?
So all right, well, on that note, I want to say thank you to
everybody for for sticking with us for the another hour every
time you come out and join us. We appreciate it.
And whether you're listening to us live or whether you were
coming and catching the restreamthe next day.
(59:09):
We we really appreciate it. So thank you.
All right, thank you. And we will see you next week.
Same place, same time. Watch out for Jamie Tackle and
Men in Black. See you then.
All right, Good night. If I was ready to go, we'd be
ready to go.
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Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com