March 19, 2025 • 50 mins
⛏️ Paranormal Lens Podcast - Season 2, Episode 34: The Mystery of the Tommyknockers 👻
Deep beneath the earth, whispers of the Tommyknockers echo through the dark tunnels of mining lore. Are they protectors or sinister spirits?
In this episode of Paranormal Lens, host Jamie Widener takes us down the Tommyknocker rabbit hole—uncovering the eerie legends of these mysterious mine-dwelling spirits. From their origins in Cornish folklore to modern-day encounters, Jamie explores whether Tommyknockers are mischievous helpers or ominous omens of doom.
Co-host Chad Thomas joins the discussion as they dig into chilling firsthand accounts from miners and the strange, unexplained sounds that have left many questioning what truly lies beneath.
🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and all major streaming platforms!
Prepare to descend into the shadows—are the Tommyknockers watching? 🪓👻⛏️
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:33):
The. Good evening.
Welcome to this week's episode of Paranormal Lens presented by
Jotnick's Paranormal. I am Jamie Widener, and I have
no idea where Jed Thomas went. He was right here, I swear, just
(00:55):
a second ago. So I'm hopefully he's going to
catch up with us in a second, but I'll get it started.
Why not? Hey, there we are.
I told you I had things all messed up, Jamie.
Well, you know. That's all it takes is to press
1 wrong button and. And I'm on the wrong side,
aren't I? I Oh my gosh, someone's going to
tell us about that. I know.
But that's OK. Let's do something different.
(01:16):
Let's. Let's be bold, right?
Sure. Why not?
We can do this. We'll figure it out.
Oh, my gosh. Well, it's Tuesday, Sir.
How are you? I am tired and I'm fighting
allergies. It's it was a long weekend.
Right. It's been a long week.
You know, we both had a theater event this weekend.
(01:36):
That's correct. Which was you had a lot more of
it than I did, of course, but a couple, many, many shows to see
between Thursday and Saturday. 5/5 shows, 6456.
I don't know. I've I saw one, that's all.
There were four, OK. And the two Saturday I guess is
there Thursday and Friday. But anyway, great presentation
by the Penn Manor School district with a big fish.
(01:58):
The scholastic version. Fantastic.
Really really good story. I've always enjoyed the story.
I saw it as a movie many many years ago.
If you haven't yet, I do recommend it.
Ewan McGregor pre pre Star Wars,back when he was a dramatic
actor and not just cool as you know AF, but really, really good
story. Neat story and the kids brought
(02:19):
it to life wonderfully so. Great acting, great stage set,
lighting everything. So really, really.
And if you get out to see it. But the movie's cool, too.
Yeah, this show was great. Like you said, they did a good
job. I hadn't seen it before so I
waited till I seen. Four times.
And not just once, because. I only actually saw the show
(02:41):
once so but it was good so but want to say hi to Todd and
Carmela. There they are, Jim.
There you are too. Good evening.
And Jim says it's good to switchthings up.
And Burke's here. So we're, we're glad everybody's
here. Thank you for dealing with us
last week when we had the issuesand had to start over.
And you know, we fixed it all onpost.
(03:03):
If you watched it on the, on thestreaming services streaming
services, you probably didn't even know there was an issue.
So. Yeah, that's why I just said
this to Chad before we came on. You know, like for those who
didn't know and seeing it elsewhere, hearing it elsewhere,
you're like, what is he talking about?
Like the issues, you know, we literally dropped out
completely, you know, and, and came back in, of course had to
(03:25):
restart because nothing kept andit was, it was a problem with
the the server at our sponsor company.
So luckily we were able to get back and you all stayed with us
and thank you. Just shared it always as always.
And Heather's here and Frankie'shere.
So, Heather? Man, I'll tell you what.
We were talking about what we had last week, Jamie, but we
(03:47):
also have a big trip on Thursday.
We're going to Penn State with Zoe to to see.
Accepted senior day or accepted student day?
Holy cow, Yeah. How do we get here?
So and decisions has to come. So, and hopefully I have a voice
by then, so Zoe may be happy if I don't, I don't know.
(04:08):
I'm not complaining if he don't all of a sudden, you know, I
hope you feel better soon. It's, it's no, this is no fun.
This time of year just stinks, you know, and it's only going to
get worse, sadly. You know, I think more things
bloom. You know, it's gotten warm
finally here and at least in South Central Pennsylvania was
like 65 and just absolutely gorgeous.
Today I take my my lunch break as a walk around the the
neighborhood where my office is.And I didn't want to go back.
(04:31):
I just didn't, you know, so I did.
So, you know, I have to eat and,you know, pay bills.
But if I didn't have to do that,I don't know where I would have
went. But definitely stayed out for a
while. Well, I'll sit here and be quiet
and let you let you talk about the topic for tonight, which?
Let's get to it. So tonight we're going to talk
about Tommy Knockers and, and no, no, no, it's not going to be
(04:54):
the Stephen King novel from backin the day, although it was it
was entertaining and fantastical.
It is really about aliens as opposed to what true Tommy
Knockers are, which you know, I'll default to our, our friends
over at Merriam Webster and theysimply state any knocker is the
ghost of a man killed in a mine.That's it.
(05:17):
Now, I, I'm going to expand on that and I think we're going to
find out there's far more than that to it.
So first of all, tummy knockers have many names and depending on
where you are, you, wherever youare in the world, you might find
them is something else. So in Wales and tummy knockers
are generally from Cornwall and Cornish descendants, but in
Wales, in the UK they might be called the cobbly.
(05:40):
Now in Ireland, something you may have heard of before, check
called a leprechaun maybe in Kent, also in the Uka cloaker.
And around the rest of England and Scotland they're also called
the brownie and not those delicious treats that we're so
familiar with. Definitely not something there.
But going out of the country, out of the UK, Germans have a
(06:02):
some history there as well, and they call them the burgeister,
which means little miners because generally speaking,
these creatures are said to be about two feet tall or about 60
centimeters and wear traditionalmining clothes.
They also have long white whiskers and beards, adding to
their supernatural aura once they're seen in in a cave or
mine. Most reports suggest that they
(06:24):
are mischievous, but not in a harmful way as they would hide
unattended tools, take a bite out of someone's snap or lunch
and extinguish lights occasionally.
And nothing, nothing more fun than having your light
extinguished when you're in total darkness afterwards.
So you know, trying to find yourway over to it.
And especially in an era withoutflashlights or cell phones to to
give you that extra boost to getback to your Lantern.
(06:46):
This was true total darkness andbelieve they would lead you to a
rich seam of deposit, so certainly not a bad mischief.
Is it Tommy Knockers or the spirits of former miners who
died underground who are watching over and protecting
those who are still working in the mines, The brethren Spirit?
(07:08):
Some believe they are of a more malicious spirit or nature where
they cause cave insurance or collapses on miners who
disrespect them. As a result, most stories agree
that it would be dangerous to laugh at or ignore the Tommy
Knocker. It is said that to stay on the
good side of the one of one miners leave a bit of their
lunch behind or even have special cakes made as a treat
for them. A lot of time it's saffron.
(07:30):
Others craft clay fig greens in the likeness of the Tommy
Knocker to appease them. Some slides of that as we cycle
through all these. In some lines where the Tommy
Knocker's presence was known to be overwhelmingly malevolent,
the mines were forced to close because of the miners fear of
the spirit. Considering that mining is an
ancient profession and that miners tend to be of a
(07:52):
superstitious lot, it should come as no surprise as stories
of the Tommy Knockers taken to the United States by mine from
Europe when the mines played out.
Legend continues as many said that the Tommy Knockers found
work in the home surrounding theold mine shafts.
Superstition continues that manya family death or disaster was
allegedly foretold by a knockingsound inside the house.
(08:17):
And the coal mines of Pennsylvania were dark and dirty
and deadly. And among the many stories, folk
songs and superstitions of the coal miners comes the legend of
the Tommy knocker there as well.Here's a here's an example.
Late last night and night beforeTommy knockers, Tommy knockers
knocking at the door. I want to go out.
Don't know if I can because I'm afraid of the Tommy Knocker man
(08:40):
or probably Ava Smith Carroll kind of get a little bit of
everything here, right? Like they're, they're, you know,
they're mischievous, they're kind of malevolent at times, you
know? You know, it's basically like a
normal person in a lot of ways. You know, everybody has a good a
bit of a tinge of good and bad depending on their mood.
You know, obviously being underground too, it's, it's a,
(09:03):
you know, a bit sometimes disorienting the unusualness of
it that although I will get to this in a second.
But there are a lot of these folks were seasoned miners who
had lots and lots of hours underground and working in these
conditions. So the fact that how they took
this was was really a tell to their belief.
So it is believed that the Lauraof the Tommy Noxious brought us
(09:23):
in the in the 1820s by Welsh andCornish immigrants who came to
Western Pennsylvania to find work in the coal mines.
They believed the Tommyknockers were sprightly spirits who
dressed like the miners and performed similar duties in the
mines. When the California Gold Rush
began, these experienced Cornishminers were a welcome most
welcome band, often sought afterby mine owners attempting to
(09:44):
recruit more miners. Managers often approached the
immigrants asking if they had any relatives back in England
who might come over to work the mines.
The Cornish miners would reply with something like, well,
because in Jack over in Cornwallwouldn't come.
Could you pay his boat ride? Soon there were many miners who
took the nickname Cousin Jacks formed the core of American
(10:06):
Western mining folk workforce. As such, their superstition of
the Tommy Knockers thrived and spread throughout the mines of
the West. The Tommy Knockers were so
important to the Cornish and Welsh miners that many would
refuse to enter a mine unless the mining company assured them
that the Tommy Knockers were there.
The practice of saying Tommy Knockers were on duty became
(10:26):
commonplace among mine owners. Stories of the Tommy knockers
quickly spread across the UnitedStates, both friend and foe.
Tales of the Tommy knockers wereused to explain the
unexplainable. If a miner's light went out and
they were stranded in total darkness, it was a trick of a
Tommy knocker. Any time a miner narrowly
escaped a tunnel collapse, it was thanks to the Tommy
(10:47):
knockers. So strongly was the belief in
the Tommy Knockers that miners would include the Tommy Knockers
in their strikes. In 1956, the owners of a large
mine in California decided to seal the entrance and close the
mine. In response, a group of miners
circulated the petition, demanding the mine owners open
the entrance and set the Tommy Knockers free so they could go
to work in other mines. Surprisingly, the mine owners
(11:10):
complied. So it's a lot of quick stuff,
but here's some stories that I like to share too.
The 1st one unlucky minor named Eddie became the target of a
Tommy knocker. They drove Tommy knockers.
I'm sorry plural. They drove him crazy, pelting
him with stones, stealing his tools, blowing out his Lantern.
(11:32):
He couldn't figure out why the Tommy knockers had singled him
out, until one day he heard a voice calling to him from the
dark opening of a nearby shaft. Eddie, I want my $5, the Tommy
knocker said. Eddie was so startled he dropped
his tools all over the ground. The voice sounded just like that
of his old friend Joe, who had died in a cave in a few months
back. Eddie had borrowed $5 from Joe
(11:55):
and had never returned it. Eddie went into the shaft and
sure enough there was Joe Joe Trewalny, His ghost shrunk to
the size of a 2 foot dwarf with a big ugly head, large ears and
a crooked nose. He wore a peaked hat, a leather
jacket and water soaked leather boots.
The Tommy Knocker was not pleased to see Eddie.
(12:16):
Give me back my $5, Eddie. The ghost of his old friend
demanded. I don't have any money on me,
Joe. Eddie said, patting his pockets
for emphasis. I've heard that before, said the
Tommy Knocker dryly. I didn't believe it then and I
won't believe it now. The Tommy Knocker disappeared
into thin air, leaving it uneasyEddie to wonder what the ghost
would do next. He soon found out.
(12:39):
All day long Eddie was plagued by the Tommy Knocker.
His ladder was shaken so hard healmost fell.
The loud tapping noise of an invisible drill nearly drove him
mad. He just missed being buried by a
rock fall. And through it all, Joe's voice
would haunt him. Give me back my $5, Eddie.
All right Joe, all right. Eddie finally yelled into the
(12:59):
mouth of the tunnel where his friend had disappeared.
I'll get your bloody $5. Abandoning his work for the day,
Eddie made the long climb to thesurface and took 5 silver
dollars from the Money Box he kept under a loose board in his
bedroom. Then he climbed back down into
the mine and stuck the $5 into acrack in the wall and next to
the place Joe's spirit had appeared to him.
(13:20):
There's your $5, Joe. Eddie shouted, his voice echoing
oddly in the dark tunnel. It's about bloody time.
Joe said, appearing next to him and peering critically into the
crack where the money lay. Are you going to leave me alone
now? Eddie asked.
The Tommy Knocker grinned impishly at Eddie.
Maybe. He said as he scooped up the $5
and disappeared into the dark. Interesting, interesting.
(13:44):
I see. I would have blamed it on his
his coworkers and you know, but you know, not if he saw it.
Well, true. The next this is a little bit
longer spare with me. I've heard a legend about the
Tommy Knockers. It happened nearly 200 years ago
in the hills of Smokeshire, which is in the UK.
There is a gold mine there. I've been to the mine.
(14:07):
I know the mine is abandoned now, though there is still gold
there. No one will mine it because of
the Tommy knockers. They say that three men died
there because they ignored the warning while four others
escaped. The three who died were never
found and the mine was sealed. No one would go back in there to
work. Those who escaped told how they
(14:27):
had been warned hearing the tapping and saw the gnomes as
they race toward the entrance just ahead of the mine,
collapsing for heeded the warning. 3 stayed behind,
mocking the others for their superstition.
They aren't laughing anymore. I don't know how true this is,
but there are many. There may be some truth to it.
The legend of the Tommyknockers has been around for thousands of
(14:48):
years, beginning in the tin mines in the days of the Roman
Empire, when these creatures of the underworld took pity on the
slaves who were forced to work the mines and warned them of
danger and often help them with their mining chores.
Maybe it's all superstition, andagain, maybe it's not.
Sometimes at night, if you sit quietly and listen near the
entrance of this old abandoned mine, you can still hear the
(15:08):
Tommy Knockers at work. You can hear the tapping of
their picks as they mine the gold that was left behind.
Sometimes you can hear the faintecho of their voice beneath the
hills of Smokeshire. And if you are lucky and if you
believe, you may just find a small nugget or two, maybe some
place for gold in the brook thatruns down the hill below the
mine that the Tommy Knockers left behind.
(15:32):
And the last, and I'm going to fully disclose that this is as
intended to be as tongue in cheek as it's going to sound,
and I'll explain why when I'm done.
Tommy Knockers are an invasive species, species that is not
native to the Pikes Peak region.The first recorded notation of
their to their presence in Colorado dates back to the
1860s, when Colorado was the Colorado territory and mining
(15:55):
was all the rage. That's where the species got its
first toehold in the region. Like the cane toad in Australia,
Tommy knockers found a perfect home in the state of Colorado.
Very quickly. With no natural predators and
hundreds of new mines dotting the mountains, Tommy knockers
began to thrive. Caves and mines were the natural
habitat of the the tummy knocker, where they originate
(16:16):
from in Europe. There, Tommy knockers had
several natural predators to keep their population in check.
Not the case in our fair state. You will typically encounter
tommyknockers in caves and abandoned mines.
They are small humanoid creatures that live in the
darker recesses of the caverns. It is very rare to catch sight
of one unless you are deep in a cave system or mine.
So unless you're an experienced spelunker or a very risk loving
(16:39):
explorer, the twain shall not meet.
The most important tip to remember is if you hear the
signature knocking in a cavern, you should exit immediately as a
cave in might be eminent. The actual intention behind the
Tommy knocker sound has been hotly debated for over a
century. Some miners of all believe that
Tommy knockers make the noise tosave humans in the tunnels.
(16:59):
Skeptics believe it is more likely that the knocking is the
sound of the creatures creating a cave in to kill trespassers.
We think it's best to shut up, listen close, and run like heck
if you hear them thumping about.This is from Wildlife of
Colorado, Mischievous Misfit misfits, and they also include
some tongue in cheek descriptions of raccoons,
skunks, bats and tarantulas as well, which I thought were all
(17:21):
very, very funny, but not something for here.
Maybe another episode some otherday.
All right, so. Conclusion.
So the couple things to discuss here and then we'll cover.
Then we'll give you some sourcesfor all of this fun stuff and
then we'll discuss. First of all, I need to note
that we are saying this wrong. The correct Cornish
pronunciation is Tommyknackers instead of knockers.
(17:44):
The term is credited to the influx of Cornish miners and the
change likely came from, you know, as I always say,
Americanizing. The word do their thick accents.
I find it fascinating. The key part of the
Tommyknackers lore is that if you actually see one, you were
going to die. Considering that there are no
confirmed sightings, we must assume this is true.
(18:06):
Given that miners are generally suspicious, it isn't a big
surprise that the folklore of Tommy Knockers was created to
explain the unusualness of working far underground.
Add the high element of danger involved in mining, especially
in the age before safety standards and modern equipment,
it makes sense. The Tommy Knockers came to be
known as a portent for bad things that were about to
happen, and this is something weare not unfamiliar with.
(18:29):
Chad. Many mothers use the fear of
Tommy Knockers to keep their kids in line and hopefully far
away from open mine shafts. Go back to the poem and given
its rich mining history, this isinteresting.
I'm going to call it now Road trip given its rich mining
history. Telluride Co kicks off their 4th
of July celebration every year with a tribute to the Tommy
(18:51):
Knockers. Telluride brings in every 4th of
July with a bang, starting with fireworks at 6:00 AM sharp.
This is an homage to a legend that says the Tominoctos would
set off an explosion in their minds at 6:00 AM as well.
And again, road trip, so I'm calling it.
That's when we can get to. So some sources and there's a
(19:12):
lot. appalachianhistory.net. Americanfolklore.net,
mcm.org.uk, which is the National Coal Mining Museum of
the UK, northcentralpa.com, abctales.com,
legendsofamerica.com, aspentimes.com, mix1o4fm.com,
(19:35):
That's where all the hits are played.
And pikes-peak.com. And finally, transceltic.com.
All right, there's some stuff here, right?
There is. And, and, and the most
interesting thing here to me is that there's a lot of legs on
(19:55):
this, you know, obviously folklore, but it's, it's one
that has gone on and on and on and on.
And even as modernization has come as far back as the 1950s
and we weren't working with picks and shovels anymore, you
know, we had true equipment. So you know the the mining
technology and all the advancements, but the belief
that there was still. The possibility that Tommy
(20:18):
Knocker was helping or hurting, either way, it was really,
really interesting. What do you think?
Well, it's, you know, it's definitely folklore.
I, you know, I'd like to believeit.
I found it interesting. You said at one point that they
used to leave them snacks. And specifically you mentioned
(20:44):
saffron. Yeah, which is a very expensive
spice to use. Yep, I agree.
So, you know, it wasn't just like they were leaving them
bread and and water like this. They they respected them if they
were using saffron. So let's say it this way too.
And, and you know, let's be honest about it. the IT wasn't
(21:05):
the minor who was making the saffron cakes.
It was the missus minor who was really interested in making sure
her husband came home safely every day.
And I think that's an interesting piece as well,
because now it was a family affair to to appease and protect
the and, and gently make happy, you know, the Tommy Knocker.
Right and and the the the story about when they the mine was
(21:28):
striking, they let their tummy knockers go work at another mine
like. Yeah, right.
So they're closing the mine in general eventually, you know,
there, there becomes the the effort of diminishing return in,
in the in the shaft. You know, it's just not worth
the work anymore. And then then, of course, it's
time to move on, find another location, other load.
(21:52):
And Bert has a fairly interesting comment.
Bribery, perhaps for those cakes.
Right. Yeah.
Whatever you want to call it. As long as long as the Tommy
Knocker's happy, I'm good. You know, moving, moving on to
the next shaft. You know, you the idea in that
in one of the second story was that even though that shaft has
been closed or sealed, you know,there's still the belief that
(22:14):
they're in there working. We're moving the last of the
gold or the rest of the gold that wasn't, you know, valuable
enough to hard enough. It was too hard to get.
So for us to get. To the work, right, to do the
work to get it. So you know what, that's an
interesting idea too, you know, and that that's I don't have, I
didn't do the I didn't connect the dots enough on this and I
probably should have. But the idea of the in in
(22:36):
Ireland, them being the leprechaun, you know, instead of
the Tommy knocker, you know, where does the leprechaun get
its pot of gold? That makes sense.
Maybe that's how and that's why it wants to protect it.
He's worked really hard to get it.
Right, so I and this story aboutthe guy.
Resident Irish travellers, the Lynches to tell me about that
(22:58):
right? Perhaps to but not sure, but
that's a curious question for me.
I should have should have connected that dot.
I apologize guys. And the the story about the guy
owing his his his Co worker who had passed $5 and him collecting
it is just, you know, that's, that's intriguing.
So. Sure.
(23:18):
What's it? There's two things that come to
me on that. One is that the the classic
1980s movie Better Off Dead, John Cusick, I want my $2.00.
You know, like he gyps the paperboy.
He chases them all over the place.
He keeps popping up. Want my $2.00 And two, it's kind
of like not in this not as graphic sense in in those
graphic a sense, but it's kind of like the tell tale heart.
(23:40):
You know, he knows he owes this guy money.
So is it really? Is it really the spirit of his
friend? Or is it really this his guilt?
His conscience, yeah. It's racking him.
So either way, it's interesting.True, Yeah, it's more fun, of
course, if it's, you know, the ghost.
But just for being a Tommy, becoming a Tommy Knocker for
that matter, 'cause obviously was not in life.
(24:01):
Right, but but there were there have also been stories of them
leading miners to safety, of course or you know, or is that?
Just got tafron cakes right? Yeah, right.
Or is that just gut instinct like, you know, you when you
work in a mine that yeah, sometimes you, you know what's
what's coming. Yeah, so.
(24:22):
I I just don't know if you showed this, I apologize.
I was going through all of this but Bert had a comment a while
ago about his uncle being a miner for 30.
Years. I didn't get that up, but yeah,
let. Me show this.
So per Bert Lynch, my uncle worked in the coal mines for in
Ohio for over 30 years. He ended up with black lung and
passed in 2016. I'm sorry to hear that, Bert,
but I can say the same. I had four, I have 13 aunts and
(24:43):
uncles and four uncles worked inmines in West Virginia.
And the same idea that, you know, they were down there and
they, they gave it up for quite a while ago.
Obviously they're, they're old now, but you know, they, they
were they would tell stories around the campfire, you know,
the weirdness of being in the mines and all that stuff is
meant to scare us kids, you know, and, and I think anyway,
(25:07):
you know, looking back on it now, I wish, I wish we would
have recorded or documented these along the way.
And unfortunately too, of the stories always change a little
bit every time they told them. So you know that's that's how it
works, but. Were they, were they stories to
scare you, just to scare you, orwere they just scare you to keep
you out of mining so you didn't go into such a a little bit of
(25:28):
both? I think the scare to scare,
especially we was really young, you know, kids, we were, you
know, 57810 whatever, you know, in that young window, the
elementary school age and then later on, I'm sure it was to
divert us. But by then they had all left
that area and then moved up hereinto the Pennsylvania and South
Central PA area as well. So I think I was part of it was
just they don't do it. You know, I guess there's some,
(25:52):
there probably was some opportunity that was lucrative
at a time. But you know, as as time goes on
and the work wears you down, obviously the exposure to the
elements, especially the coal mines, the exposure to the
elements of, of the coal will allow you to get that black lung
or, or cancer in general, you know, and that's certainly not
worth it in the long run. The lynchers are going to next
(26:16):
time over in Ireland, they're going to hunt a leprechaun and
ask him. So I appreciate that guys.
I like I find this common interesting too.
We both want to put it up at thesame time.
Bert's uncle wouldn't talk abouthis time in the mines, Which.
And, and there's probably a reason, you know, and, and I'm,
I mean, obviously can't speculate then I won't.
But you know, there was, there was, it's hard work.
(26:39):
It's serious work. That's what.
Happened and it's like a lot of a lot of soldiers won't talk
about their time in country and like.
Making the same thing, yeah, it's just.
Right and there and that's something to respect and you
know, they're there to do a job and they don't have to want to
relive it so. There there are inherent risks
any time you go away from, you know, broad wide open spaces and
(27:01):
anything underground or you know, even even you know, out
into caverns and such, you know,not mine shafts that are dug,
but even open caves, you know, caverns like that you you always
run inherent risk of having something happen.
You know, collapse. Comes to mind immediately.
But, you know, just kidding. I think of 128 hours, the story
where the guy went hiking without telling anybody.
(27:23):
He slipped, got caught between two rocks and had to, you know,
amputate his arm. You know, like all kinds of
things can happen to you out in the wild and without resources
and connections and people around you, you know, and not
come back. And, you know, you went
underground. You had the risk of that.
Right. You're, you're aware that I do
the summer camp every year and that's out in, you know,
(27:44):
Somerset area. Sure, which is not very far from
the, and I can't remember the name of it.
And I think maybe it's the Deep Creek mine that there was a
collapse several years ago. And we were, we were at the
summer camp when that mine collapse and rescue was
happening. It it, it didn't affect me, but
(28:04):
there were people there who had relatives and and friends who
were in that mine or Q Creek I think it is.
Yeah, that sounds right. I'm I'm recalling this.
I couldn't didn't remember the name, but that sounds that
sounds more correct. Anyway you could tell me
anything too because I can't recall it but.
So, but you know, and I I've driven past where that mine
(28:25):
because it's, you know, it's marked as you know, where the Q
Creek where mine happened, blah,blah, blah.
But I've driven past it several times and it, it, it hits hard
when you realize there's things like that that are that close.
So but well. Here in here at our area and in
southern, we're in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
(28:45):
So South Central Pennsylvania ishome for us.
There is probably about 20 minutes or 30 minutes even from
us. In the southern end of Lancaster
County, there's nickel mines. And I remember being a kid, you
know, we, we were able to go into those and they're not deep
or big or anything like that, but you know, it's, it's, as a
kid, it was huge, you know, and,and kind of scary and spooky at
(29:07):
least, you know, like, you know,and, and it's not like, you
know, you're walking into someone's home where there's
amenities and lights and everything.
I mean, there was string lights and so forth.
And remember, correct, there's probably a rail track on the on
the center of the, you know, pull carts in and out.
But it wasn't anything extraordinary or elaborate, you
know, And that's really what these mines in the era that the
Tommy Knocker was most prevalentwas, you know, it was, it was
(29:29):
hand dug, it was carved, you know, pick axes and shovels and
cart, you know, buckets and such.
And, you know, wooden cribbages,you know, it's to support the
shafts and so forth. And, and that's really where
the, you know, the crackings, the knocking and cracking sound
was a lot of that as well. It wasn't just necessarily
against the rock, it was the stress and pressures against the
lumber. And that's part of the reason to
(29:50):
to put it up in the 1st place obviously of support because you
don't want to collapse, but you know, should something become
over pressured. It was a warning.
It would would give you the the tail of it and therefore you had
hopefully time to move. Right.
There's also an old silver mine in southern Lancaster County.
I believe it's Silver Mine Park.Same, the same thing.
(30:11):
Actually it's a so nickel silvermines like I forget the name of
him, sorry, but you know, it's it's still there.
What's I know the silver mine is, it was a Native American
one, but it's now sealed off. Yeah, you can't go in it anymore
or I would. Well, there's a, there's a in
Mount Joy, right? You know, not too far actually
(30:33):
from from where we are with the brewery on the way to the Mount
Joy Cemetery. If you go up the back way by the
the Votech school, you can turn right before instead of going
left up and around to the to thehilltop where the cemetery is.
There was a cave back in there that I recall being in as a kid
as well supervised. But you know, and that was one
(30:53):
of those ones where, you know, if you went, you could go so far
and then once you started to lose light, then you had to have
some resources, you know, but itwent in a good bit before you
lost light. So, you know, checking it out,
kind of just climbing around, calling around, but not, you
know, I, I'm, I'm adventurous, I'm bold.
I think I'd say that I would, I will go into places, you know,
(31:15):
but I don't know, like some things, you know, without,
without someone being there first.
I, I went to College in Albuquerque, NM at the UNUNM
University of New Mexico and as and studied archaeology and
there is a lot of natural resources and a lot of Native
American sites. One of the things that was most
(31:37):
that reminded me the most of this is there's a thing called
Sandia Cave or Sandia Man cave on the mountain just on, on the
east side of the city. And it, it, you know, it's a
back of the thing and a trek up and around to get to it.
But The Cave is a wide opening. And, and the point is there was
a, a prehistoric man found there, Sandia man because of
Sandia Mountain, Well, back in the 20s or so.
(32:00):
It's a while ago, you know, quite a few years ago now,
decades ago. And, you know, it opens.
It starts as a fairly wide opening, which was a domicile.
You know, someone lived there, this guy, and then hopefully his
family. And then it gets really tight
and really narrow and really lowand you almost have to crawl to
get through and opens again intoa large chamber.
(32:20):
And, you know, if you're claustrophobic or have any at
all fears of tightness, you know, you're, you're probably
not going to go much further. But it is well worth it to go
beyond because you know, there'scave art, there's all kinds of
stuff that's just, you know, nowpreserved.
And it's, you know, it's established place.
You know, you, you certainly get, you get the feel of what it
would have been being in prehistoric times there.
(32:42):
So, so very cool. Not a not a mining situation by
any means. Even there, people are finding
ways, you know, once they once they empowered fire, you know
that made this a liveable place.Right here's a comment that that
Heather put up Burt and I did a tour of pioneer tunnel coal mine
in Ashland Pai could never do that for a living.
(33:03):
It was way too claustrophobic for me My heart was racing just
taking a tour. I'm not I I've I remember taking
a tour of a coal mine as well. It's definitely an experience
that everyone should have that's.
What we that's what we did righthere as kids, though, you know?
Because it's like it's a resource that we all have used
(33:23):
at one point or another in our life, whether we realize it or
not. Because electricity was made
from coal quite often, especially in this area.
Still is, still is. Definitely still, as we saw
Berner Island, you know the coalprocessing facility up in the
Susquehanna, it's still a bit north of us, right?
About Bainbridge and you know, we, there's, you know,
blacksmiths used it, people use it for heating.
(33:45):
I remember my my grandparents talking about the coal shoot
that they had in their basement from the street that.
Absolutely. Well, you you probably got a lot
of it for Christmas through the years, so.
Well, we weren't going to talk about that anyway.
So, so it's definitely worth doing that just to to sense that
(34:05):
temperature change from being onthe surface and realizing that
people had to work in such a dramatic place.
I don't know how else to explainit but.
It's a transition, you know, youknow, whatever, whatever is
happening on the surface, whether it be fair and sunny or
(34:26):
cold and snowy or rainy or whatever, you know, you have no
idea what you're going to walk out into coming up that shaft.
You don't know if it's day or night.
In a lot of ways, you know, these, this is an era of, of not
having Apple Watches and you know, technology.
So they most folks would have had a pocket watch and if it
wound the night before or what not, you know, it stopped.
(34:48):
You don't know even what time itis.
Right. And and we think of an 8 hour
shift, but coal miners has they probably worked a lot more than
that. Because I would, I would think
that's true. And you know, of course, I was
about to say that to extend thatthought too, is that, you know,
mine, mine operators, we're going to, you know, work you as
long as they physically could until you, you know, you weren't
(35:08):
able to go anymore, right? Well, and it was, it wasn't
based on time if I remember correctly, it was more based on
what you produced in the day and.
And that's your benefit this dayas well.
You know you want to go as long as you can as well, just to make
sure you can meet your quota. Right, so.
No pay. Right, Bert said.
Nickel mine is in gaps, silver mine is down the road for them
(35:31):
from them. And then Heather said that she
grew up going to the Peckway silver mines.
She could ride the bike there. The neighbor kids and I would
play in the mines before they close them up.
I can never go far back in them.Burt and I took the kids there
to go hiking and ride bikes a couple of times and I've I've
hiked that trail, taking a lot of pictures back there.
It's it's another gorgeous Lancaster County resource, but
(35:56):
you definitely can't get in the silver mines anymore.
Now, now there's a lot of reasons not to so right.
And you know, actually too, while we're on the the subject
burden comments here, they have a coal stove in the basement of
their home. You know, for the in the
previous owner was used. That's not unusual to find as
well. You know, the, the burner stoves
and stuff was because that was heat, like you said, and you
know, coal shoot, you know, somewhere on the side of the
(36:17):
house where now the oil, you know, if, if you have oil or
your propane or whatever it is, your heating element is other
than electric, whatever that wind source is, is probably
right around where it was because there was already an
opening and they just sealed it up and, and, you know, put in
the, the in pipe, whatever your resource is.
And it's it's interesting because now the Helms can't see
them anymore. I remember when growing up in
(36:39):
Columbia, you know, a lot of homes had had had transition.
But you know, my line of work inthe previous life, I got in to
see a lot of old homes, a lot ofbasements.
And you can always tell where the traps were for the shaft.
You know it, it may look a lot different at the street level,
but inside it really wasn't. There was definitely a slot and
there was definitely a receptacle area where it would,
(36:59):
you know, because a cart would show up, somebody would drop it
in, leave a bill, you know, on their way in the next times.
It was done by wagon. Just so strange.
Yep. And then you had to shovel it
into the stove and yeah. All the manual labor on top of
it. Yeah, and.
Clean up the mess. So anyway, yeah, we're.
Well off point by saying all that, but you know.
So, so Tommy Knockers, yeah. I mean, there is definitely
(37:20):
folklore, history, whether they actually existed or not, you
know, I don't know, but but people believed in them and
that's what was important because it it their, their
beliefs in them saved their lives at times.
Yes, so well. And I, I think, you know, we've
talked enough about folklore through these all these
(37:41):
episodes, you know, and there's,there's a lacing of it through a
lot of this, you know, you do and, you know, more time to
deny. I think folklore is a comfort
part to it. There's a comfort in it, you
know, for you as a person and whether you what whichever way
you believe, you know, either way.
But there's something to it thatyou know allows you to have an
(38:03):
explanation for the unexplained and a connection to the place
that the belief that something is there beyond what you can
physically see or touch. Yeah, we're going to say
something possibly controversialhere, but it's it's it's funny
how, you know what? It's funny how folklore and
religion have a lot of similarities where there's a
(38:23):
belief there. True that.
Not going to worms any more thanthat, but it's.
Just your point. Well, well, made point we all
have, we have to believe for it to be.
Real there. There's something that you have
to believe in yeah. So all right, nice job Jamie.
(38:44):
Again, not as not a topic I had heard of before so I appreciate
being filled in on it SO. Absolutely.
That was a fun one of the research too.
And you know, the, the, the, the, the tongue in cheek tale
of, of Tommy Knockers from Colorado was, was the last thing
I found, one of the last things I found.
And honestly, I laughed as I read it.
(39:05):
So I'm going to have to share this one.
But you know, the, the idea thatthat we have carried on this
tradition of sharing the, the belief for thousands of years.
And you're going back into Romandays with slaves working minds,
you know, to current, you know, we're we're talking eons of
time. And the uniqueness is that the
(39:28):
the story hasn't changed. You know, the idea is the same,
the belief is the same. The the you know, the good, bad
and ugly of it is the same now. So there must be something to
keep going going. So Bird has a comment here about
the same as believing in spiritsand and that's some usually are
your ancestors warn you of danger.
It's a good point. And then here's a, here's a new
(39:52):
one, another one I haven't heardof.
Jamie, do you know anything about this?
Oh, Tommyknockers kind kind of reminds us of the Mehune.
Do you know what they are? I do not.
They are a mythical race of small, skilled people in
Hawaiian folklore, usually building impressive structures
(40:12):
like fish ponds and roads, primarily working at night.
So I think this sounds like another episode we're going to
have to dive into. I think so.
Well, you know, kind of in the sense of it too.
Takes me back to the the Huldufolk as well.
You know the belief that. There is this clan or gathering
of these, you know, subsized people that are doing their own
(40:37):
thing, you know, like they're they're doing things to make
things better. You know the.
Idea that the in the mind. Shaft at least they're working
to help people get, you know, besafe and you know obviously
being a little playful at times,but you know the idea that that
the general belief is that they're there to help you right.
Obviously the holder folk were the same.
The manehun are the same. You know that's fascinating
(41:00):
because we're talking about lotsof different places of the world
that are necessarily connected very commonly.
Jamie, I think we need. To put in the paranormal lens.
Budgeted trip to Hawaii to do some research for the main main.
I blew the budget. On Disney last year, so hot I
mansion episode. So I guess we have to we just
(41:20):
have to, you know, restock the cost for a little bit.
But yeah, I'm in. Let's go.
All right, it's plane trip. That's fine.
Here it is. So why you want a boat trip or
boat trip? Plane trip.
Either way, we'll get there. And Frankie.
'S coming. Let's get, let's go.
(41:43):
And I have to look. I'll have to look for these next
time I'm down in Disney. Yeah, that's coming up, isn't
it? There's a there's a class trip
somewhere. This spring is November.
It's in the fall. In the fall, OK.
Later this year, OK. So perfect.
So, well, there you go. All right, magic of.
Disney, always. Teaching us something so well,
(42:05):
should we? Talk about what's coming up for
us, Jamie. Sure.
All right. Next week I'm going to be
talking about the DIPIC box, which is you may find out will
tie into your next your following week paranormal
hoaxes. So April first.
(42:28):
April first, Jamie. Will be talking about paranormal
hoaxes because of being April Fool's Day, so it's good timing.
The week after that, Trans Allegheny Lunatic Asylum, I'll
be talking about the history on April 8th.
Later that week, we will be packing the car and driving down
to the actual asylum and doing an investigation.
(42:50):
So we will come back on the 15thwith hopefully some experiences,
maybe some other investigators will be able to join us.
We'll see how that goes. And then on April 22nd, we're
going to talk about the DOS House, which is a newer location
in Pennsylvania. Shawna and Danielle Rigsby are
going to come on with us and talk about the DOS House.
(43:10):
So I'm looking forward to that one just to learn about a new
place and find out about maybe atime that we could go there, see
what's going on, let's get it done.
So. There's.
That upcoming investigations, weunfortunately we will not be
having an investigation this weekend, which we thought we
(43:31):
were going to on the 22nd that that was unfortunately
cancelled. But let's see, on April 10th, I
said earlier, we're going to investigate Trans Allegheny
Lunatic Asylum. The 26th, we will be back at the
brewery. Then May 17th, we will be back
at the brewery for our parent Unity event with Landon Legends
(43:55):
Paranormal. Stacey was with us earlier.
So we're looking forward to thatJune 21st public investigation
at Ruby's Brewery, and then June28th you can find a bunch of us
at the Haunted Crescent Sanatorium and Prison Paracon,
which I'll have a slide for thatin a minute.
Yep, we're Rd. tripping. We're Rd. tripping.
(44:17):
And Jamie I. Bet, I think we're going to have
stickers to hand out at the veryleast.
Yeah, we will. So, so join us there.
Like I said, we're going to havethe Peri Unity event with Stacy
and Gary Smith, Landon Legends Paranormal on May 17th.
Join us for that. We're going to, like I said, the
(44:43):
Crescent Haunted Crescent, Paracon and horror show look.
For it online, it's you. Know you do Google search for
paracon and we will we will be there so.
I'm I'm laughing here too. I'm smiling, I'm trying to laugh
out loud. I'm reading some of the comments
that are streaming while we're talking.
(45:04):
But yeah, I'm catching around the corner of my eye.
So Frankie Validates Crescent isamazing.
This is the one place that I have yet to be.
And you know, every time we've been there several times as a
team and every time it's it's sadly, it's mostly been weekdays
for opportunities and I just couldn't get away or can't get
away as easily as others perhaps.
So I haven't found my time thereyet, but I will.
(45:27):
I'm committed. To this so I'm going.
To be there and I believe if I'mnot mistaken, there's some
investigation opportunity after the Paracon.
So there is, yeah, so. You, you're allowed to wander
the buildings while the Paracon is going on and then there's a
separate paid event afterwards. So fantastic.
We're going to have to look into.
That Jamie. Yes, so.
(45:47):
I'm waiting for this for quite awhile, knowing we were doing it,
but I'm waiting for waiting for an opportunity at least to get
back there or out to Crescent. I shouldn't say back, but out to
Crescent. So hey, let's go.
And from Todd and Carmela, FYI, Carmela said she can book to a
trip to Hawaii. So for you and I.
So. OK, where do I sign?
(46:09):
Yeah, so. All right.
And then then there are typical social media where you found us.
We're on Facebook, Tiktok, Instagram, YouTube.
If you have a comment about the show you want to talk complain
about my my voice not being heretonight, I apologize.
E-mail us to Paranormal Lens about its voice When?
It's normal too. That's fine.
(46:31):
That would be paranormal lenspodcast@gmail.com working on
some other e-mail addresses. We were, you know, Jotnix is
working on a website and when that's up, we may have a
paranormal lens at jotnixparanormal.com.
So yeah, see, we're getting there.
We're we're slowly getting thereas usual.
You can ask you something real quick is is that?
(46:52):
You or Maggie squeaking, That isMaggie.
She she's came down with her toy.
So OK, OK, so my voice isn't that bad yet.
Our third. Our third teammate.
Right there, so so. So yeah, check out Link Tree
Paranormal Lens for all our our links and socials and all that
(47:12):
stuff there. So absolutely.
So I just want to thank everybody for joining us again.
I appreciate you spending the the hour with us or you know,
your Tuesday evening. Jamie, any final thoughts?
No, it's it's. It was a.
It was a pleasure to do this episode.
Thank you all. You know, we're always trying to
find, you know, fun things to and unique things to discuss and
(47:34):
share. I should have stopped talking
and said, no, we're done. But here it is, right?
So, Bert, I want to complain. You were on the wrong side.
It took the whole episode, dude.Yeah, Yeah.
Come on. It couldn't have bothered you
that much. All right, we'll get.
We'll be on the right. We'll be on the correct sides of
the right side. We're always on the right side.
(47:54):
The the good side of each other here.
So next time, here we go, just for Bert.
Just for Bert, All right. I knew where that button was.
I'd have pressed. It too.
You know so many things here. But the.
Point I was trying to say is, you know, we're, we're always
trying to find things that, you know, we, we, we find
interesting first, but also things that we, we think you
(48:16):
guys will too. So if there's something that you
are interested in hearing from us or having us do, just reach
out, you know, then the, the e-mail, you know, Facebook,
obviously you can leave a message if you're catching us on
the streaming services, leave a comment.
You know, we're in, we always will be in to, To Do List
listener submission episodes. We've done several already.
We'll do several more, whatever,however many, you know, self
(48:37):
produce, so we can move our schedule around and see a little
time to research it and figure out what to do with it.
And if it's your story, you know, and something you want to
share personally, we can, we canhave you on.
So it's easy, you know, we know how to do that.
So, you know, just feel free to reach out and touch base and,
and keep keep it coming. You know, we're we're here for
you. There's Chris.
(48:57):
Hey. Chris, welcome.
We're we're both clicking buttons again.
I'm gonna I got it. It's free.
Yeah, well, yeah, Chris is. Chris is with the orphanage and
or the Jenny Wade house, I forget exactly which one.
I'm sorry, Chris, but. Part.
Of our team was down there a couple weeks ago and and and had
(49:19):
a good time and I was there before that and Chris is a
wonderful person definitely recommend getting out there.
So, all right, cool looking, looking forward to.
Seeing you in in the in the field soon so.
All right, Jamie, anything else?No, Sir, I think.
I've got it all and and that's my story.
I'm sticking to it. So just thanks everybody for
(49:39):
paying, you know, paying a little bit of your time tonight
with us. You know, we we'll see you next
time and we'll talk about the Dibbuk box.
All right, Sounds good. Thanks everybody.
Good night. Take care.
The. Good evening.
Welcome to this week's episode of Paranormal Lens presented by
Jotnick's Paranormal. I am Jamie Widener, and I have
no idea where Jed Thomas went. He was right here, I swear, just
(00:55):
a second ago. So I'm hopefully he's going to
catch up with us in a second, but I'll get it started.
Why not? Hey, there we are.
I told you I had things all messed up, Jamie.
Well, you know. That's all it takes is to press
1 wrong button and. And I'm on the wrong side,
aren't I? I Oh my gosh, someone's going to
tell us about that. I know.
But that's OK. Let's do something different.
(01:16):
Let's. Let's be bold, right?
Sure. Why not?
We can do this. We'll figure it out.
Oh, my gosh. Well, it's Tuesday, Sir.
How are you? I am tired and I'm fighting
allergies. It's it was a long weekend.
Right. It's been a long week.
You know, we both had a theater event this weekend.
(01:36):
That's correct. Which was you had a lot more of
it than I did, of course, but a couple, many, many shows to see
between Thursday and Saturday. 5/5 shows, 6456.
I don't know. I've I saw one, that's all.
There were four, OK. And the two Saturday I guess is
there Thursday and Friday. But anyway, great presentation
by the Penn Manor School district with a big fish.
(01:58):
The scholastic version. Fantastic.
Really really good story. I've always enjoyed the story.
I saw it as a movie many many years ago.
If you haven't yet, I do recommend it.
Ewan McGregor pre pre Star Wars,back when he was a dramatic
actor and not just cool as you know AF, but really, really good
story. Neat story and the kids brought
(02:19):
it to life wonderfully so. Great acting, great stage set,
lighting everything. So really, really.
And if you get out to see it. But the movie's cool, too.
Yeah, this show was great. Like you said, they did a good
job. I hadn't seen it before so I
waited till I seen. Four times.
And not just once, because. I only actually saw the show
(02:41):
once so but it was good so but want to say hi to Todd and
Carmela. There they are, Jim.
There you are too. Good evening.
And Jim says it's good to switchthings up.
And Burke's here. So we're, we're glad everybody's
here. Thank you for dealing with us
last week when we had the issuesand had to start over.
And you know, we fixed it all onpost.
(03:03):
If you watched it on the, on thestreaming services streaming
services, you probably didn't even know there was an issue.
So. Yeah, that's why I just said
this to Chad before we came on. You know, like for those who
didn't know and seeing it elsewhere, hearing it elsewhere,
you're like, what is he talking about?
Like the issues, you know, we literally dropped out
completely, you know, and, and came back in, of course had to
(03:25):
restart because nothing kept andit was, it was a problem with
the the server at our sponsor company.
So luckily we were able to get back and you all stayed with us
and thank you. Just shared it always as always.
And Heather's here and Frankie'shere.
So, Heather? Man, I'll tell you what.
We were talking about what we had last week, Jamie, but we
(03:47):
also have a big trip on Thursday.
We're going to Penn State with Zoe to to see.
Accepted senior day or accepted student day?
Holy cow, Yeah. How do we get here?
So and decisions has to come. So, and hopefully I have a voice
by then, so Zoe may be happy if I don't, I don't know.
(04:08):
I'm not complaining if he don't all of a sudden, you know, I
hope you feel better soon. It's, it's no, this is no fun.
This time of year just stinks, you know, and it's only going to
get worse, sadly. You know, I think more things
bloom. You know, it's gotten warm
finally here and at least in South Central Pennsylvania was
like 65 and just absolutely gorgeous.
Today I take my my lunch break as a walk around the the
neighborhood where my office is.And I didn't want to go back.
(04:31):
I just didn't, you know, so I did.
So, you know, I have to eat and,you know, pay bills.
But if I didn't have to do that,I don't know where I would have
went. But definitely stayed out for a
while. Well, I'll sit here and be quiet
and let you let you talk about the topic for tonight, which?
Let's get to it. So tonight we're going to talk
about Tommy Knockers and, and no, no, no, it's not going to be
(04:54):
the Stephen King novel from backin the day, although it was it
was entertaining and fantastical.
It is really about aliens as opposed to what true Tommy
Knockers are, which you know, I'll default to our, our friends
over at Merriam Webster and theysimply state any knocker is the
ghost of a man killed in a mine.That's it.
(05:17):
Now, I, I'm going to expand on that and I think we're going to
find out there's far more than that to it.
So first of all, tummy knockers have many names and depending on
where you are, you, wherever youare in the world, you might find
them is something else. So in Wales and tummy knockers
are generally from Cornwall and Cornish descendants, but in
Wales, in the UK they might be called the cobbly.
(05:40):
Now in Ireland, something you may have heard of before, check
called a leprechaun maybe in Kent, also in the Uka cloaker.
And around the rest of England and Scotland they're also called
the brownie and not those delicious treats that we're so
familiar with. Definitely not something there.
But going out of the country, out of the UK, Germans have a
(06:02):
some history there as well, and they call them the burgeister,
which means little miners because generally speaking,
these creatures are said to be about two feet tall or about 60
centimeters and wear traditionalmining clothes.
They also have long white whiskers and beards, adding to
their supernatural aura once they're seen in in a cave or
mine. Most reports suggest that they
(06:24):
are mischievous, but not in a harmful way as they would hide
unattended tools, take a bite out of someone's snap or lunch
and extinguish lights occasionally.
And nothing, nothing more fun than having your light
extinguished when you're in total darkness afterwards.
So you know, trying to find yourway over to it.
And especially in an era withoutflashlights or cell phones to to
give you that extra boost to getback to your Lantern.
(06:46):
This was true total darkness andbelieve they would lead you to a
rich seam of deposit, so certainly not a bad mischief.
Is it Tommy Knockers or the spirits of former miners who
died underground who are watching over and protecting
those who are still working in the mines, The brethren Spirit?
(07:08):
Some believe they are of a more malicious spirit or nature where
they cause cave insurance or collapses on miners who
disrespect them. As a result, most stories agree
that it would be dangerous to laugh at or ignore the Tommy
Knocker. It is said that to stay on the
good side of the one of one miners leave a bit of their
lunch behind or even have special cakes made as a treat
for them. A lot of time it's saffron.
(07:30):
Others craft clay fig greens in the likeness of the Tommy
Knocker to appease them. Some slides of that as we cycle
through all these. In some lines where the Tommy
Knocker's presence was known to be overwhelmingly malevolent,
the mines were forced to close because of the miners fear of
the spirit. Considering that mining is an
ancient profession and that miners tend to be of a
(07:52):
superstitious lot, it should come as no surprise as stories
of the Tommy Knockers taken to the United States by mine from
Europe when the mines played out.
Legend continues as many said that the Tommy Knockers found
work in the home surrounding theold mine shafts.
Superstition continues that manya family death or disaster was
allegedly foretold by a knockingsound inside the house.
(08:17):
And the coal mines of Pennsylvania were dark and dirty
and deadly. And among the many stories, folk
songs and superstitions of the coal miners comes the legend of
the Tommy knocker there as well.Here's a here's an example.
Late last night and night beforeTommy knockers, Tommy knockers
knocking at the door. I want to go out.
Don't know if I can because I'm afraid of the Tommy Knocker man
(08:40):
or probably Ava Smith Carroll kind of get a little bit of
everything here, right? Like they're, they're, you know,
they're mischievous, they're kind of malevolent at times, you
know? You know, it's basically like a
normal person in a lot of ways. You know, everybody has a good a
bit of a tinge of good and bad depending on their mood.
You know, obviously being underground too, it's, it's a,
(09:03):
you know, a bit sometimes disorienting the unusualness of
it that although I will get to this in a second.
But there are a lot of these folks were seasoned miners who
had lots and lots of hours underground and working in these
conditions. So the fact that how they took
this was was really a tell to their belief.
So it is believed that the Lauraof the Tommy Noxious brought us
(09:23):
in the in the 1820s by Welsh andCornish immigrants who came to
Western Pennsylvania to find work in the coal mines.
They believed the Tommyknockers were sprightly spirits who
dressed like the miners and performed similar duties in the
mines. When the California Gold Rush
began, these experienced Cornishminers were a welcome most
welcome band, often sought afterby mine owners attempting to
(09:44):
recruit more miners. Managers often approached the
immigrants asking if they had any relatives back in England
who might come over to work the mines.
The Cornish miners would reply with something like, well,
because in Jack over in Cornwallwouldn't come.
Could you pay his boat ride? Soon there were many miners who
took the nickname Cousin Jacks formed the core of American
(10:06):
Western mining folk workforce. As such, their superstition of
the Tommy Knockers thrived and spread throughout the mines of
the West. The Tommy Knockers were so
important to the Cornish and Welsh miners that many would
refuse to enter a mine unless the mining company assured them
that the Tommy Knockers were there.
The practice of saying Tommy Knockers were on duty became
(10:26):
commonplace among mine owners. Stories of the Tommy knockers
quickly spread across the UnitedStates, both friend and foe.
Tales of the Tommy knockers wereused to explain the
unexplainable. If a miner's light went out and
they were stranded in total darkness, it was a trick of a
Tommy knocker. Any time a miner narrowly
escaped a tunnel collapse, it was thanks to the Tommy
(10:47):
knockers. So strongly was the belief in
the Tommy Knockers that miners would include the Tommy Knockers
in their strikes. In 1956, the owners of a large
mine in California decided to seal the entrance and close the
mine. In response, a group of miners
circulated the petition, demanding the mine owners open
the entrance and set the Tommy Knockers free so they could go
to work in other mines. Surprisingly, the mine owners
(11:10):
complied. So it's a lot of quick stuff,
but here's some stories that I like to share too.
The 1st one unlucky minor named Eddie became the target of a
Tommy knocker. They drove Tommy knockers.
I'm sorry plural. They drove him crazy, pelting
him with stones, stealing his tools, blowing out his Lantern.
(11:32):
He couldn't figure out why the Tommy knockers had singled him
out, until one day he heard a voice calling to him from the
dark opening of a nearby shaft. Eddie, I want my $5, the Tommy
knocker said. Eddie was so startled he dropped
his tools all over the ground. The voice sounded just like that
of his old friend Joe, who had died in a cave in a few months
back. Eddie had borrowed $5 from Joe
(11:55):
and had never returned it. Eddie went into the shaft and
sure enough there was Joe Joe Trewalny, His ghost shrunk to
the size of a 2 foot dwarf with a big ugly head, large ears and
a crooked nose. He wore a peaked hat, a leather
jacket and water soaked leather boots.
The Tommy Knocker was not pleased to see Eddie.
(12:16):
Give me back my $5, Eddie. The ghost of his old friend
demanded. I don't have any money on me,
Joe. Eddie said, patting his pockets
for emphasis. I've heard that before, said the
Tommy Knocker dryly. I didn't believe it then and I
won't believe it now. The Tommy Knocker disappeared
into thin air, leaving it uneasyEddie to wonder what the ghost
would do next. He soon found out.
(12:39):
All day long Eddie was plagued by the Tommy Knocker.
His ladder was shaken so hard healmost fell.
The loud tapping noise of an invisible drill nearly drove him
mad. He just missed being buried by a
rock fall. And through it all, Joe's voice
would haunt him. Give me back my $5, Eddie.
All right Joe, all right. Eddie finally yelled into the
(12:59):
mouth of the tunnel where his friend had disappeared.
I'll get your bloody $5. Abandoning his work for the day,
Eddie made the long climb to thesurface and took 5 silver
dollars from the Money Box he kept under a loose board in his
bedroom. Then he climbed back down into
the mine and stuck the $5 into acrack in the wall and next to
the place Joe's spirit had appeared to him.
(13:20):
There's your $5, Joe. Eddie shouted, his voice echoing
oddly in the dark tunnel. It's about bloody time.
Joe said, appearing next to him and peering critically into the
crack where the money lay. Are you going to leave me alone
now? Eddie asked.
The Tommy Knocker grinned impishly at Eddie.
Maybe. He said as he scooped up the $5
and disappeared into the dark. Interesting, interesting.
(13:44):
I see. I would have blamed it on his
his coworkers and you know, but you know, not if he saw it.
Well, true. The next this is a little bit
longer spare with me. I've heard a legend about the
Tommy Knockers. It happened nearly 200 years ago
in the hills of Smokeshire, which is in the UK.
There is a gold mine there. I've been to the mine.
(14:07):
I know the mine is abandoned now, though there is still gold
there. No one will mine it because of
the Tommy knockers. They say that three men died
there because they ignored the warning while four others
escaped. The three who died were never
found and the mine was sealed. No one would go back in there to
work. Those who escaped told how they
(14:27):
had been warned hearing the tapping and saw the gnomes as
they race toward the entrance just ahead of the mine,
collapsing for heeded the warning. 3 stayed behind,
mocking the others for their superstition.
They aren't laughing anymore. I don't know how true this is,
but there are many. There may be some truth to it.
The legend of the Tommyknockers has been around for thousands of
(14:48):
years, beginning in the tin mines in the days of the Roman
Empire, when these creatures of the underworld took pity on the
slaves who were forced to work the mines and warned them of
danger and often help them with their mining chores.
Maybe it's all superstition, andagain, maybe it's not.
Sometimes at night, if you sit quietly and listen near the
entrance of this old abandoned mine, you can still hear the
(15:08):
Tommy Knockers at work. You can hear the tapping of
their picks as they mine the gold that was left behind.
Sometimes you can hear the faintecho of their voice beneath the
hills of Smokeshire. And if you are lucky and if you
believe, you may just find a small nugget or two, maybe some
place for gold in the brook thatruns down the hill below the
mine that the Tommy Knockers left behind.
(15:32):
And the last, and I'm going to fully disclose that this is as
intended to be as tongue in cheek as it's going to sound,
and I'll explain why when I'm done.
Tommy Knockers are an invasive species, species that is not
native to the Pikes Peak region.The first recorded notation of
their to their presence in Colorado dates back to the
1860s, when Colorado was the Colorado territory and mining
(15:55):
was all the rage. That's where the species got its
first toehold in the region. Like the cane toad in Australia,
Tommy knockers found a perfect home in the state of Colorado.
Very quickly. With no natural predators and
hundreds of new mines dotting the mountains, Tommy knockers
began to thrive. Caves and mines were the natural
habitat of the the tummy knocker, where they originate
(16:16):
from in Europe. There, Tommy knockers had
several natural predators to keep their population in check.
Not the case in our fair state. You will typically encounter
tommyknockers in caves and abandoned mines.
They are small humanoid creatures that live in the
darker recesses of the caverns. It is very rare to catch sight
of one unless you are deep in a cave system or mine.
So unless you're an experienced spelunker or a very risk loving
(16:39):
explorer, the twain shall not meet.
The most important tip to remember is if you hear the
signature knocking in a cavern, you should exit immediately as a
cave in might be eminent. The actual intention behind the
Tommy knocker sound has been hotly debated for over a
century. Some miners of all believe that
Tommy knockers make the noise tosave humans in the tunnels.
(16:59):
Skeptics believe it is more likely that the knocking is the
sound of the creatures creating a cave in to kill trespassers.
We think it's best to shut up, listen close, and run like heck
if you hear them thumping about.This is from Wildlife of
Colorado, Mischievous Misfit misfits, and they also include
some tongue in cheek descriptions of raccoons,
skunks, bats and tarantulas as well, which I thought were all
(17:21):
very, very funny, but not something for here.
Maybe another episode some otherday.
All right, so. Conclusion.
So the couple things to discuss here and then we'll cover.
Then we'll give you some sourcesfor all of this fun stuff and
then we'll discuss. First of all, I need to note
that we are saying this wrong. The correct Cornish
pronunciation is Tommyknackers instead of knockers.
(17:44):
The term is credited to the influx of Cornish miners and the
change likely came from, you know, as I always say,
Americanizing. The word do their thick accents.
I find it fascinating. The key part of the
Tommyknackers lore is that if you actually see one, you were
going to die. Considering that there are no
confirmed sightings, we must assume this is true.
(18:06):
Given that miners are generally suspicious, it isn't a big
surprise that the folklore of Tommy Knockers was created to
explain the unusualness of working far underground.
Add the high element of danger involved in mining, especially
in the age before safety standards and modern equipment,
it makes sense. The Tommy Knockers came to be
known as a portent for bad things that were about to
happen, and this is something weare not unfamiliar with.
(18:29):
Chad. Many mothers use the fear of
Tommy Knockers to keep their kids in line and hopefully far
away from open mine shafts. Go back to the poem and given
its rich mining history, this isinteresting.
I'm going to call it now Road trip given its rich mining
history. Telluride Co kicks off their 4th
of July celebration every year with a tribute to the Tommy
(18:51):
Knockers. Telluride brings in every 4th of
July with a bang, starting with fireworks at 6:00 AM sharp.
This is an homage to a legend that says the Tominoctos would
set off an explosion in their minds at 6:00 AM as well.
And again, road trip, so I'm calling it.
That's when we can get to. So some sources and there's a
(19:12):
lot. appalachianhistory.net. Americanfolklore.net,
mcm.org.uk, which is the National Coal Mining Museum of
the UK, northcentralpa.com, abctales.com,
legendsofamerica.com, aspentimes.com, mix1o4fm.com,
(19:35):
That's where all the hits are played.
And pikes-peak.com. And finally, transceltic.com.
All right, there's some stuff here, right?
There is. And, and, and the most
interesting thing here to me is that there's a lot of legs on
(19:55):
this, you know, obviously folklore, but it's, it's one
that has gone on and on and on and on.
And even as modernization has come as far back as the 1950s
and we weren't working with picks and shovels anymore, you
know, we had true equipment. So you know the the mining
technology and all the advancements, but the belief
that there was still. The possibility that Tommy
(20:18):
Knocker was helping or hurting, either way, it was really,
really interesting. What do you think?
Well, it's, you know, it's definitely folklore.
I, you know, I'd like to believeit.
I found it interesting. You said at one point that they
used to leave them snacks. And specifically you mentioned
(20:44):
saffron. Yeah, which is a very expensive
spice to use. Yep, I agree.
So, you know, it wasn't just like they were leaving them
bread and and water like this. They they respected them if they
were using saffron. So let's say it this way too.
And, and you know, let's be honest about it. the IT wasn't
(21:05):
the minor who was making the saffron cakes.
It was the missus minor who was really interested in making sure
her husband came home safely every day.
And I think that's an interesting piece as well,
because now it was a family affair to to appease and protect
the and, and gently make happy, you know, the Tommy Knocker.
Right and and the the the story about when they the mine was
(21:28):
striking, they let their tummy knockers go work at another mine
like. Yeah, right.
So they're closing the mine in general eventually, you know,
there, there becomes the the effort of diminishing return in,
in the in the shaft. You know, it's just not worth
the work anymore. And then then, of course, it's
time to move on, find another location, other load.
(21:52):
And Bert has a fairly interesting comment.
Bribery, perhaps for those cakes.
Right. Yeah.
Whatever you want to call it. As long as long as the Tommy
Knocker's happy, I'm good. You know, moving, moving on to
the next shaft. You know, you the idea in that
in one of the second story was that even though that shaft has
been closed or sealed, you know,there's still the belief that
(22:14):
they're in there working. We're moving the last of the
gold or the rest of the gold that wasn't, you know, valuable
enough to hard enough. It was too hard to get.
So for us to get. To the work, right, to do the
work to get it. So you know what, that's an
interesting idea too, you know, and that that's I don't have, I
didn't do the I didn't connect the dots enough on this and I
probably should have. But the idea of the in in
(22:36):
Ireland, them being the leprechaun, you know, instead of
the Tommy knocker, you know, where does the leprechaun get
its pot of gold? That makes sense.
Maybe that's how and that's why it wants to protect it.
He's worked really hard to get it.
Right, so I and this story aboutthe guy.
Resident Irish travellers, the Lynches to tell me about that
(22:58):
right? Perhaps to but not sure, but
that's a curious question for me.
I should have should have connected that dot.
I apologize guys. And the the story about the guy
owing his his his Co worker who had passed $5 and him collecting
it is just, you know, that's, that's intriguing.
So. Sure.
(23:18):
What's it? There's two things that come to
me on that. One is that the the classic
1980s movie Better Off Dead, John Cusick, I want my $2.00.
You know, like he gyps the paperboy.
He chases them all over the place.
He keeps popping up. Want my $2.00 And two, it's kind
of like not in this not as graphic sense in in those
graphic a sense, but it's kind of like the tell tale heart.
(23:40):
You know, he knows he owes this guy money.
So is it really? Is it really the spirit of his
friend? Or is it really this his guilt?
His conscience, yeah. It's racking him.
So either way, it's interesting.True, Yeah, it's more fun, of
course, if it's, you know, the ghost.
But just for being a Tommy, becoming a Tommy Knocker for
that matter, 'cause obviously was not in life.
(24:01):
Right, but but there were there have also been stories of them
leading miners to safety, of course or you know, or is that?
Just got tafron cakes right? Yeah, right.
Or is that just gut instinct like, you know, you when you
work in a mine that yeah, sometimes you, you know what's
what's coming. Yeah, so.
(24:22):
I I just don't know if you showed this, I apologize.
I was going through all of this but Bert had a comment a while
ago about his uncle being a miner for 30.
Years. I didn't get that up, but yeah,
let. Me show this.
So per Bert Lynch, my uncle worked in the coal mines for in
Ohio for over 30 years. He ended up with black lung and
passed in 2016. I'm sorry to hear that, Bert,
but I can say the same. I had four, I have 13 aunts and
(24:43):
uncles and four uncles worked inmines in West Virginia.
And the same idea that, you know, they were down there and
they, they gave it up for quite a while ago.
Obviously they're, they're old now, but you know, they, they
were they would tell stories around the campfire, you know,
the weirdness of being in the mines and all that stuff is
meant to scare us kids, you know, and, and I think anyway,
(25:07):
you know, looking back on it now, I wish, I wish we would
have recorded or documented these along the way.
And unfortunately too, of the stories always change a little
bit every time they told them. So you know that's that's how it
works, but. Were they, were they stories to
scare you, just to scare you, orwere they just scare you to keep
you out of mining so you didn't go into such a a little bit of
(25:28):
both? I think the scare to scare,
especially we was really young, you know, kids, we were, you
know, 57810 whatever, you know, in that young window, the
elementary school age and then later on, I'm sure it was to
divert us. But by then they had all left
that area and then moved up hereinto the Pennsylvania and South
Central PA area as well. So I think I was part of it was
just they don't do it. You know, I guess there's some,
(25:52):
there probably was some opportunity that was lucrative
at a time. But you know, as as time goes on
and the work wears you down, obviously the exposure to the
elements, especially the coal mines, the exposure to the
elements of, of the coal will allow you to get that black lung
or, or cancer in general, you know, and that's certainly not
worth it in the long run. The lynchers are going to next
(26:16):
time over in Ireland, they're going to hunt a leprechaun and
ask him. So I appreciate that guys.
I like I find this common interesting too.
We both want to put it up at thesame time.
Bert's uncle wouldn't talk abouthis time in the mines, Which.
And, and there's probably a reason, you know, and, and I'm,
I mean, obviously can't speculate then I won't.
But you know, there was, there was, it's hard work.
(26:39):
It's serious work. That's what.
Happened and it's like a lot of a lot of soldiers won't talk
about their time in country and like.
Making the same thing, yeah, it's just.
Right and there and that's something to respect and you
know, they're there to do a job and they don't have to want to
relive it so. There there are inherent risks
any time you go away from, you know, broad wide open spaces and
(27:01):
anything underground or you know, even even you know, out
into caverns and such, you know,not mine shafts that are dug,
but even open caves, you know, caverns like that you you always
run inherent risk of having something happen.
You know, collapse. Comes to mind immediately.
But, you know, just kidding. I think of 128 hours, the story
where the guy went hiking without telling anybody.
(27:23):
He slipped, got caught between two rocks and had to, you know,
amputate his arm. You know, like all kinds of
things can happen to you out in the wild and without resources
and connections and people around you, you know, and not
come back. And, you know, you went
underground. You had the risk of that.
Right. You're, you're aware that I do
the summer camp every year and that's out in, you know,
(27:44):
Somerset area. Sure, which is not very far from
the, and I can't remember the name of it.
And I think maybe it's the Deep Creek mine that there was a
collapse several years ago. And we were, we were at the
summer camp when that mine collapse and rescue was
happening. It it, it didn't affect me, but
(28:04):
there were people there who had relatives and and friends who
were in that mine or Q Creek I think it is.
Yeah, that sounds right. I'm I'm recalling this.
I couldn't didn't remember the name, but that sounds that
sounds more correct. Anyway you could tell me
anything too because I can't recall it but.
So, but you know, and I I've driven past where that mine
(28:25):
because it's, you know, it's marked as you know, where the Q
Creek where mine happened, blah,blah, blah.
But I've driven past it several times and it, it, it hits hard
when you realize there's things like that that are that close.
So but well. Here in here at our area and in
southern, we're in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
(28:45):
So South Central Pennsylvania ishome for us.
There is probably about 20 minutes or 30 minutes even from
us. In the southern end of Lancaster
County, there's nickel mines. And I remember being a kid, you
know, we, we were able to go into those and they're not deep
or big or anything like that, but you know, it's, it's, as a
kid, it was huge, you know, and,and kind of scary and spooky at
(29:07):
least, you know, like, you know,and, and it's not like, you
know, you're walking into someone's home where there's
amenities and lights and everything.
I mean, there was string lights and so forth.
And remember, correct, there's probably a rail track on the on
the center of the, you know, pull carts in and out.
But it wasn't anything extraordinary or elaborate, you
know, And that's really what these mines in the era that the
Tommy Knocker was most prevalentwas, you know, it was, it was
(29:29):
hand dug, it was carved, you know, pick axes and shovels and
cart, you know, buckets and such.
And, you know, wooden cribbages,you know, it's to support the
shafts and so forth. And, and that's really where
the, you know, the crackings, the knocking and cracking sound
was a lot of that as well. It wasn't just necessarily
against the rock, it was the stress and pressures against the
lumber. And that's part of the reason to
(29:50):
to put it up in the 1st place obviously of support because you
don't want to collapse, but you know, should something become
over pressured. It was a warning.
It would would give you the the tail of it and therefore you had
hopefully time to move. Right.
There's also an old silver mine in southern Lancaster County.
I believe it's Silver Mine Park.Same, the same thing.
(30:11):
Actually it's a so nickel silvermines like I forget the name of
him, sorry, but you know, it's it's still there.
What's I know the silver mine is, it was a Native American
one, but it's now sealed off. Yeah, you can't go in it anymore
or I would. Well, there's a, there's a in
Mount Joy, right? You know, not too far actually
(30:33):
from from where we are with the brewery on the way to the Mount
Joy Cemetery. If you go up the back way by the
the Votech school, you can turn right before instead of going
left up and around to the to thehilltop where the cemetery is.
There was a cave back in there that I recall being in as a kid
as well supervised. But you know, and that was one
(30:53):
of those ones where, you know, if you went, you could go so far
and then once you started to lose light, then you had to have
some resources, you know, but itwent in a good bit before you
lost light. So, you know, checking it out,
kind of just climbing around, calling around, but not, you
know, I, I'm, I'm adventurous, I'm bold.
I think I'd say that I would, I will go into places, you know,
(31:15):
but I don't know, like some things, you know, without,
without someone being there first.
I, I went to College in Albuquerque, NM at the UNUNM
University of New Mexico and as and studied archaeology and
there is a lot of natural resources and a lot of Native
American sites. One of the things that was most
(31:37):
that reminded me the most of this is there's a thing called
Sandia Cave or Sandia Man cave on the mountain just on, on the
east side of the city. And it, it, you know, it's a
back of the thing and a trek up and around to get to it.
But The Cave is a wide opening. And, and the point is there was
a, a prehistoric man found there, Sandia man because of
Sandia Mountain, Well, back in the 20s or so.
(32:00):
It's a while ago, you know, quite a few years ago now,
decades ago. And, you know, it opens.
It starts as a fairly wide opening, which was a domicile.
You know, someone lived there, this guy, and then hopefully his
family. And then it gets really tight
and really narrow and really lowand you almost have to crawl to
get through and opens again intoa large chamber.
(32:20):
And, you know, if you're claustrophobic or have any at
all fears of tightness, you know, you're, you're probably
not going to go much further. But it is well worth it to go
beyond because you know, there'scave art, there's all kinds of
stuff that's just, you know, nowpreserved.
And it's, you know, it's established place.
You know, you, you certainly get, you get the feel of what it
would have been being in prehistoric times there.
(32:42):
So, so very cool. Not a not a mining situation by
any means. Even there, people are finding
ways, you know, once they once they empowered fire, you know
that made this a liveable place.Right here's a comment that that
Heather put up Burt and I did a tour of pioneer tunnel coal mine
in Ashland Pai could never do that for a living.
(33:03):
It was way too claustrophobic for me My heart was racing just
taking a tour. I'm not I I've I remember taking
a tour of a coal mine as well. It's definitely an experience
that everyone should have that's.
What we that's what we did righthere as kids, though, you know?
Because it's like it's a resource that we all have used
(33:23):
at one point or another in our life, whether we realize it or
not. Because electricity was made
from coal quite often, especially in this area.
Still is, still is. Definitely still, as we saw
Berner Island, you know the coalprocessing facility up in the
Susquehanna, it's still a bit north of us, right?
About Bainbridge and you know, we, there's, you know,
blacksmiths used it, people use it for heating.
(33:45):
I remember my my grandparents talking about the coal shoot
that they had in their basement from the street that.
Absolutely. Well, you you probably got a lot
of it for Christmas through the years, so.
Well, we weren't going to talk about that anyway.
So, so it's definitely worth doing that just to to sense that
(34:05):
temperature change from being onthe surface and realizing that
people had to work in such a dramatic place.
I don't know how else to explainit but.
It's a transition, you know, youknow, whatever, whatever is
happening on the surface, whether it be fair and sunny or
(34:26):
cold and snowy or rainy or whatever, you know, you have no
idea what you're going to walk out into coming up that shaft.
You don't know if it's day or night.
In a lot of ways, you know, these, this is an era of, of not
having Apple Watches and you know, technology.
So they most folks would have had a pocket watch and if it
wound the night before or what not, you know, it stopped.
(34:48):
You don't know even what time itis.
Right. And and we think of an 8 hour
shift, but coal miners has they probably worked a lot more than
that. Because I would, I would think
that's true. And you know, of course, I was
about to say that to extend thatthought too, is that, you know,
mine, mine operators, we're going to, you know, work you as
long as they physically could until you, you know, you weren't
(35:08):
able to go anymore, right? Well, and it was, it wasn't
based on time if I remember correctly, it was more based on
what you produced in the day and.
And that's your benefit this dayas well.
You know you want to go as long as you can as well, just to make
sure you can meet your quota. Right, so.
No pay. Right, Bert said.
Nickel mine is in gaps, silver mine is down the road for them
(35:31):
from them. And then Heather said that she
grew up going to the Peckway silver mines.
She could ride the bike there. The neighbor kids and I would
play in the mines before they close them up.
I can never go far back in them.Burt and I took the kids there
to go hiking and ride bikes a couple of times and I've I've
hiked that trail, taking a lot of pictures back there.
It's it's another gorgeous Lancaster County resource, but
(35:56):
you definitely can't get in the silver mines anymore.
Now, now there's a lot of reasons not to so right.
And you know, actually too, while we're on the the subject
burden comments here, they have a coal stove in the basement of
their home. You know, for the in the
previous owner was used. That's not unusual to find as
well. You know, the, the burner stoves
and stuff was because that was heat, like you said, and you
know, coal shoot, you know, somewhere on the side of the
(36:17):
house where now the oil, you know, if, if you have oil or
your propane or whatever it is, your heating element is other
than electric, whatever that wind source is, is probably
right around where it was because there was already an
opening and they just sealed it up and, and, you know, put in
the, the in pipe, whatever your resource is.
And it's it's interesting because now the Helms can't see
them anymore. I remember when growing up in
(36:39):
Columbia, you know, a lot of homes had had had transition.
But you know, my line of work inthe previous life, I got in to
see a lot of old homes, a lot ofbasements.
And you can always tell where the traps were for the shaft.
You know it, it may look a lot different at the street level,
but inside it really wasn't. There was definitely a slot and
there was definitely a receptacle area where it would,
(36:59):
you know, because a cart would show up, somebody would drop it
in, leave a bill, you know, on their way in the next times.
It was done by wagon. Just so strange.
Yep. And then you had to shovel it
into the stove and yeah. All the manual labor on top of
it. Yeah, and.
Clean up the mess. So anyway, yeah, we're.
Well off point by saying all that, but you know.
So, so Tommy Knockers, yeah. I mean, there is definitely
(37:20):
folklore, history, whether they actually existed or not, you
know, I don't know, but but people believed in them and
that's what was important because it it their, their
beliefs in them saved their lives at times.
Yes, so well. And I, I think, you know, we've
talked enough about folklore through these all these
(37:41):
episodes, you know, and there's,there's a lacing of it through a
lot of this, you know, you do and, you know, more time to
deny. I think folklore is a comfort
part to it. There's a comfort in it, you
know, for you as a person and whether you what whichever way
you believe, you know, either way.
But there's something to it thatyou know allows you to have an
(38:03):
explanation for the unexplained and a connection to the place
that the belief that something is there beyond what you can
physically see or touch. Yeah, we're going to say
something possibly controversialhere, but it's it's it's funny
how, you know what? It's funny how folklore and
religion have a lot of similarities where there's a
(38:23):
belief there. True that.
Not going to worms any more thanthat, but it's.
Just your point. Well, well, made point we all
have, we have to believe for it to be.
Real there. There's something that you have
to believe in yeah. So all right, nice job Jamie.
(38:44):
Again, not as not a topic I had heard of before so I appreciate
being filled in on it SO. Absolutely.
That was a fun one of the research too.
And you know, the, the, the, the, the tongue in cheek tale
of, of Tommy Knockers from Colorado was, was the last thing
I found, one of the last things I found.
And honestly, I laughed as I read it.
(39:05):
So I'm going to have to share this one.
But you know, the, the idea thatthat we have carried on this
tradition of sharing the, the belief for thousands of years.
And you're going back into Romandays with slaves working minds,
you know, to current, you know, we're we're talking eons of
time. And the uniqueness is that the
(39:28):
the story hasn't changed. You know, the idea is the same,
the belief is the same. The the you know, the good, bad
and ugly of it is the same now. So there must be something to
keep going going. So Bird has a comment here about
the same as believing in spiritsand and that's some usually are
your ancestors warn you of danger.
It's a good point. And then here's a, here's a new
(39:52):
one, another one I haven't heardof.
Jamie, do you know anything about this?
Oh, Tommyknockers kind kind of reminds us of the Mehune.
Do you know what they are? I do not.
They are a mythical race of small, skilled people in
Hawaiian folklore, usually building impressive structures
(40:12):
like fish ponds and roads, primarily working at night.
So I think this sounds like another episode we're going to
have to dive into. I think so.
Well, you know, kind of in the sense of it too.
Takes me back to the the Huldufolk as well.
You know the belief that. There is this clan or gathering
of these, you know, subsized people that are doing their own
(40:37):
thing, you know, like they're they're doing things to make
things better. You know the.
Idea that the in the mind. Shaft at least they're working
to help people get, you know, besafe and you know obviously
being a little playful at times,but you know the idea that that
the general belief is that they're there to help you right.
Obviously the holder folk were the same.
The manehun are the same. You know that's fascinating
(41:00):
because we're talking about lotsof different places of the world
that are necessarily connected very commonly.
Jamie, I think we need. To put in the paranormal lens.
Budgeted trip to Hawaii to do some research for the main main.
I blew the budget. On Disney last year, so hot I
mansion episode. So I guess we have to we just
(41:20):
have to, you know, restock the cost for a little bit.
But yeah, I'm in. Let's go.
All right, it's plane trip. That's fine.
Here it is. So why you want a boat trip or
boat trip? Plane trip.
Either way, we'll get there. And Frankie.
'S coming. Let's get, let's go.
(41:43):
And I have to look. I'll have to look for these next
time I'm down in Disney. Yeah, that's coming up, isn't
it? There's a there's a class trip
somewhere. This spring is November.
It's in the fall. In the fall, OK.
Later this year, OK. So perfect.
So, well, there you go. All right, magic of.
Disney, always. Teaching us something so well,
(42:05):
should we? Talk about what's coming up for
us, Jamie. Sure.
All right. Next week I'm going to be
talking about the DIPIC box, which is you may find out will
tie into your next your following week paranormal
hoaxes. So April first.
(42:28):
April first, Jamie. Will be talking about paranormal
hoaxes because of being April Fool's Day, so it's good timing.
The week after that, Trans Allegheny Lunatic Asylum, I'll
be talking about the history on April 8th.
Later that week, we will be packing the car and driving down
to the actual asylum and doing an investigation.
(42:50):
So we will come back on the 15thwith hopefully some experiences,
maybe some other investigators will be able to join us.
We'll see how that goes. And then on April 22nd, we're
going to talk about the DOS House, which is a newer location
in Pennsylvania. Shawna and Danielle Rigsby are
going to come on with us and talk about the DOS House.
(43:10):
So I'm looking forward to that one just to learn about a new
place and find out about maybe atime that we could go there, see
what's going on, let's get it done.
So. There's.
That upcoming investigations, weunfortunately we will not be
having an investigation this weekend, which we thought we
(43:31):
were going to on the 22nd that that was unfortunately
cancelled. But let's see, on April 10th, I
said earlier, we're going to investigate Trans Allegheny
Lunatic Asylum. The 26th, we will be back at the
brewery. Then May 17th, we will be back
at the brewery for our parent Unity event with Landon Legends
(43:55):
Paranormal. Stacey was with us earlier.
So we're looking forward to thatJune 21st public investigation
at Ruby's Brewery, and then June28th you can find a bunch of us
at the Haunted Crescent Sanatorium and Prison Paracon,
which I'll have a slide for thatin a minute.
Yep, we're Rd. tripping. We're Rd. tripping.
(44:17):
And Jamie I. Bet, I think we're going to have
stickers to hand out at the veryleast.
Yeah, we will. So, so join us there.
Like I said, we're going to havethe Peri Unity event with Stacy
and Gary Smith, Landon Legends Paranormal on May 17th.
Join us for that. We're going to, like I said, the
(44:43):
Crescent Haunted Crescent, Paracon and horror show look.
For it online, it's you. Know you do Google search for
paracon and we will we will be there so.
I'm I'm laughing here too. I'm smiling, I'm trying to laugh
out loud. I'm reading some of the comments
that are streaming while we're talking.
(45:04):
But yeah, I'm catching around the corner of my eye.
So Frankie Validates Crescent isamazing.
This is the one place that I have yet to be.
And you know, every time we've been there several times as a
team and every time it's it's sadly, it's mostly been weekdays
for opportunities and I just couldn't get away or can't get
away as easily as others perhaps.
So I haven't found my time thereyet, but I will.
(45:27):
I'm committed. To this so I'm going.
To be there and I believe if I'mnot mistaken, there's some
investigation opportunity after the Paracon.
So there is, yeah, so. You, you're allowed to wander
the buildings while the Paracon is going on and then there's a
separate paid event afterwards. So fantastic.
We're going to have to look into.
That Jamie. Yes, so.
(45:47):
I'm waiting for this for quite awhile, knowing we were doing it,
but I'm waiting for waiting for an opportunity at least to get
back there or out to Crescent. I shouldn't say back, but out to
Crescent. So hey, let's go.
And from Todd and Carmela, FYI, Carmela said she can book to a
trip to Hawaii. So for you and I.
So. OK, where do I sign?
(46:09):
Yeah, so. All right.
And then then there are typical social media where you found us.
We're on Facebook, Tiktok, Instagram, YouTube.
If you have a comment about the show you want to talk complain
about my my voice not being heretonight, I apologize.
E-mail us to Paranormal Lens about its voice When?
It's normal too. That's fine.
(46:31):
That would be paranormal lenspodcast@gmail.com working on
some other e-mail addresses. We were, you know, Jotnix is
working on a website and when that's up, we may have a
paranormal lens at jotnixparanormal.com.
So yeah, see, we're getting there.
We're we're slowly getting thereas usual.
You can ask you something real quick is is that?
(46:52):
You or Maggie squeaking, That isMaggie.
She she's came down with her toy.
So OK, OK, so my voice isn't that bad yet.
Our third. Our third teammate.
Right there, so so. So yeah, check out Link Tree
Paranormal Lens for all our our links and socials and all that
(47:12):
stuff there. So absolutely.
So I just want to thank everybody for joining us again.
I appreciate you spending the the hour with us or you know,
your Tuesday evening. Jamie, any final thoughts?
No, it's it's. It was a.
It was a pleasure to do this episode.
Thank you all. You know, we're always trying to
find, you know, fun things to and unique things to discuss and
(47:34):
share. I should have stopped talking
and said, no, we're done. But here it is, right?
So, Bert, I want to complain. You were on the wrong side.
It took the whole episode, dude.Yeah, Yeah.
Come on. It couldn't have bothered you
that much. All right, we'll get.
We'll be on the right. We'll be on the correct sides of
the right side. We're always on the right side.
(47:54):
The the good side of each other here.
So next time, here we go, just for Bert.
Just for Bert, All right. I knew where that button was.
I'd have pressed. It too.
You know so many things here. But the.
Point I was trying to say is, you know, we're, we're always
trying to find things that, you know, we, we, we find
interesting first, but also things that we, we think you
(48:16):
guys will too. So if there's something that you
are interested in hearing from us or having us do, just reach
out, you know, then the, the e-mail, you know, Facebook,
obviously you can leave a message if you're catching us on
the streaming services, leave a comment.
You know, we're in, we always will be in to, To Do List
listener submission episodes. We've done several already.
We'll do several more, whatever,however many, you know, self
(48:37):
produce, so we can move our schedule around and see a little
time to research it and figure out what to do with it.
And if it's your story, you know, and something you want to
share personally, we can, we canhave you on.
So it's easy, you know, we know how to do that.
So, you know, just feel free to reach out and touch base and,
and keep keep it coming. You know, we're we're here for
you. There's Chris.
(48:57):
Hey. Chris, welcome.
We're we're both clicking buttons again.
I'm gonna I got it. It's free.
Yeah, well, yeah, Chris is. Chris is with the orphanage and
or the Jenny Wade house, I forget exactly which one.
I'm sorry, Chris, but. Part.
Of our team was down there a couple weeks ago and and and had
(49:19):
a good time and I was there before that and Chris is a
wonderful person definitely recommend getting out there.
So, all right, cool looking, looking forward to.
Seeing you in in the in the field soon so.
All right, Jamie, anything else?No, Sir, I think.
I've got it all and and that's my story.
I'm sticking to it. So just thanks everybody for
(49:39):
paying, you know, paying a little bit of your time tonight
with us. You know, we we'll see you next
time and we'll talk about the Dibbuk box.
All right, Sounds good. Thanks everybody.
Good night. Take care.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com