Patriots Unfiltered 6/1: Biggest Observations from Wednesday's OTA

Tune-in as we discuss what stood out from Wednesday's Patriots OTA. We discuss who was in attendance and who was missing. Plus, a wide variety of listener generated topics.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
The World's a bigeon podc Welcome to Patriots Unfiltered.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
She's the report.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
He has sixteen days to pay it.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Like, what when you come up with sixteen days or what?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Somebody for the NFL comes and breaks his fingers collection
I swear and all this wholyvy money next week. That
wasn't the deal.

Speaker 5 (00:30):
I'll be back tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Don't make me a juggle.

Speaker 6 (00:32):
Oh my god, my stepdad was so funny yesterday.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Oh you guys, I watched this movie. It's really old,
but I think you'll like it. It's about Nike and
Michael Jordan. I'm like, that's not an old movie. I've
just finished. He's like, what do you mean all the
cars were from the eighties. I thought it was from me.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Just get old cars and put them in and make it.
Look at Mike turned it to Jackie Mason.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
You want them to.

Speaker 7 (00:54):
Tam was on one leg.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm not doing this because soft like just sock and I.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Get an sometimes with some of the cliches that everybody
leans on.

Speaker 6 (01:02):
That Miami team is an absolute Cochran because they have dogs.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
We do not.

Speaker 8 (01:07):
I got Patriots this year's Super Bowl. All right, it's
too early, but I got us winning the baby.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
But all right, I just.

Speaker 6 (01:13):
Can't get on this level of optimism today.

Speaker 9 (01:15):
This is Patriot's Unfiltered, fueled by Dunking.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
All right, welcome to Patriots Unfiltered. It is Thursday here
at the Last Stadium, and it's video day.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
Surprise.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Return just walks right, not expecting what I make the start.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, and I had a doctor's appointment eleven fifteen and
I'm here, Wow, wow, get all checked out? Yeah, I'm
all set.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
All right, obviously you did a lot of lying if
they let you out.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
No, No, I had like I've had like ringing in
my ear for the last couple of years. Yeah no,
and I blame Paul. And it's gotten a couple of years.
Well yeah, and it's gotten worse. And so they disapeared.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Frity chance that it started in nineteen ninety nine. Now
I'm fine, okay that I'm okay, deuce.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Uh but you know, so I just wanted to get
a checked out.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah all right, yeah, all right, I got my I
had a flat tire situation and I nailed, didn't have it.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
I had to go get a fix there. So you know,
getting you didn't have the bridge? Don't run flat tires,
That's what I was looking for. No, I did not.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
And by the way, if you call town for again
next week, like I don't I need a car like
you know, so.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
It took a local place. Yeah, bang it out? Okay, good?

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Thanks?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
You know what kind of tires did you get?

Speaker 3 (02:22):
I didn't have to get new tires, luckily, they just
they just plugged her up and they plugged her up.

Speaker 6 (02:26):
Anything from you, Paul, any hard chips?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
You know?

Speaker 4 (02:29):
Evan, you know, serious football people like you and I
were really more interested in the OTA. Yes, right, but
I guess we had to wait till the.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Right I guess we'll talk about that. It's Duce, it's Evan,
it's Paul, it's myself. We'll be here until two o'clock
talking patriots and whatever else. But yes, the big topic
is we had our first and mind you which just
our first full look at practice with the OTAs yesterday,
and so let's you know, whoever wants to jump in

(02:57):
give us your thoughts.

Speaker 6 (02:58):
I'm ready to overreact.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
All right, let's overrehacb. I know you love to not
be afraid. Thornton's your man right now, right, I just
like receivers.

Speaker 6 (03:05):
Who doesn't.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, he looked good.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
He caught a lot of balls. Well, I mean, why
don't we start with just mac. I mean, I would
just say overall, I thought it just looked like he
said normal.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I felt normal.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
I liked how we talked in the post practice interview.
We just seemed a little bit like he's growing up
a little bit as shoot as he should, especially.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Going through last season.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
So I thought I thought he had a pretty good
day overall.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
On the field.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Off the field, it was it was nice for an Ota,
and I think I.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Only saw a little bit of it because I had
a meeting, So I saw like the first fifteen minutes,
it looks like he had a good bounce in a step. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, Hey, he was engaged, and I mean none of
the stuff from last year what I wrote.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, Paul wrote it too, so you know it's true. Yeah, yeah, yep, that.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Seemed like a shot.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
You only write true things.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Seems like a bit of a shot there.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I don't know what it is.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
I'm going to figure it.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Out later and if I had just come from Mars
and someone said, well, who's the starting quarterback in this team?
I'd say that number ten over there. Yeah, well definitely
not really Cunningham without question.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, yeah, I know there was some.

Speaker 10 (04:04):
There was.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
There was some talk yesterday with some of the recaps
from from our colleagues. Oh and Bailey's Appy getting his
share of first team reps and yeah, more than one really,
And it wasn't on the radio. It was people on
the radio talking about what individuals had written. And yeah,
I would say that Bailey's Appy was throwing the ball

(04:26):
to what we would consider to be starters at times.
But Mac Jones was clearly clearly like, no, there was
nothing gray in any way. Mac was clearly the guy yesterday.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
And you know who wasn't the guy was mcsorlely because
he was just throwing They should just.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
Play that song, the McSorley song. But he it was, Yeah,
he struggled.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
He's small, trace McSorley is pretty small.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
That was a takeaway from that. But I do agree
with the way the way Mike said it with just
the overall operation to me, and this is I understand
it's a little nebulous and sometimes people that really analyze
the stuff they want more something concrete to sort of,
you know, solidify what you're talking about. And I don't

(05:15):
have that for you. I'm just telling you.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
When I watched, I felt like there was a Christmas
to the.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Way that everything operated. Yeah, you know, they were calling
the plays, they were breaking the huddle. There was no no, no, no, no,
Kendrick Boyne, you need to come. You're not in that slot.
You're in a slot on this that.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
There was none of that.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
The plays just ran. And I understand that they're all designed.
I will go back to the first ota. In the
second ota we had last spring, the offense looked excellent.
The offense didn't look like a disaster until training camp.
So these I understand, these practices are designed for the
ball not to hit the ground a lot. That's the

(05:53):
way it's supposed to look. But I just felt like
the way it looked was different than last year, if
that makes any sense at all. And I understand if
you want to call me a fraud and say, well,
you're just saying that because Bill O'Brien's theater and you
never thought, you never gave Matt, but you're right.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
I didn't think it was gonna work last year, and
I do think it will work this year. That said,
I just felt like it looked different.

Speaker 6 (06:14):
Yeah, looked like a professional practice. It looked like a
professional practice. It looked like offensively, people knew what they
were doing, knew where they were supposed to be going. Obviously,
we can talk about some of the dressing up of
the plays that Bill O'Brien was doing, which I thought
was exciting, and overall, it just it ran a lot
like a Josh McDaniel's practice would have ran a couple

(06:36):
of years ago or other experiences. And the other thing
I think that really stood out Paul just kind of
mentioned it. There was there wasn't a whole lot of
coaching in between plays, and like it wasn't like Bill
O'Brien was standing in the middle of the field while
everything was going on around him and correcting guys every
single time out. He was actually on the sideline for

(06:59):
a lot of the team drill portions, calling the plays in,
rating the plays in with the walkie talkie and with
him and Bill were very hands off. You know, Bill
didn't really say anything to anybody.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, so let me ask a question. You know, so
they've had how many practices before this?

Speaker 6 (07:15):
Not very many?

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Right, yes, week too? How like, how did they get
on the same page so quickly?

Speaker 6 (07:23):
I think that there's a combination of things, like the
carryover from McDaniels. I think, is there for a lot
of the guys that were here in twenty one, So
you're talking about a lot of the guys that were
out there honestly, you know, Kendrick Bourne Mac obviously some
of the offensive linemen were there in twenty one. So
I think there was a little bit of that going on.
That the language and the lingo was pretty similar to

(07:46):
what they were used to. But overall that was what
stood out to me from an operation standpoint, was this
just the cleanliness of the whole thing. And also second
to that, just the fact that there wasn't a whole
lot of in between coaching going on and not usually
when we get yeah corrections and when we get into

(08:06):
training camp, that's usually what they do Towards the end
of practice. They'll always basically make it a game situation
where the coaches go to the sideline, you know, Bill
kind of give waves a flag and is like, hey,
we're not good let's let him go well, you know,
and it were still there's already stuff like that going on.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Do you think there's any chance that as early as
February these iPads have been you know, have been populated
and it's been made clear that by the time you
get here, we expect you to know a certain a
certain amount and it's it's all on your iPad. Start
studying now, even though we can't get together officially, and

(08:43):
here's what you're gonna you know, and maybe that part
of it is more buttoned up than it was last
year when you had two guys who were probably still
working on figuring it out on the fly.

Speaker 8 (08:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, that's I mean maybe hard to say.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
I mean, I think we'll find out we get to like,
you know, mini camp a little bit, maybe amp the
voltage a tiny bit, but that'll be really training camp,
I think when you really figure out how much they're
all on the same page. But just to highlight a
couple of guys, I mean Thornton. We talked a lot
about him last couple of days. He caught a lot
of balls, looked good. Douglas was very active. I mean,
I think that was a little bit juju, not being there,
getting getting a chance time Montgomery just you know, continues

(09:19):
to be effective and they get the ball to him.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
He works with the receivers a little bit, he works
with a running back.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
So I thought he was going to be a big
part of it last year and I think it'll be
a big part of it.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
And Ivan has said Fears, who's still hanging around.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
He was there.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
He's very high on time Montgomery. Yeah, yeah, you can
do a lot. So it was encouraging. No Trump Brown.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
So you get a little bit of a look at
the offensive line City South playing a little tackle at times,
and you know, just these little things you kind of
get a feel for where they're working guys in. I
don't think it's, you know, something you can overreact to
too much. But offensively, it's nice to see Kasiki too.
He's a big, long guy. I mean he's got a
unique body type. Those kind of things jump out to
you when you finally get on the field and you
see what these guys actually look like standing amongst other

(09:59):
football player or so. I'm intrigued by no Gonzales but no,
I should say though. There were pictures from the last
two ots which I think goes back to last week.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Picture of Gonzalez there, picture of Barmore there.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
Obviously we have the most famous by history of PEPs.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Shuster was there.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
So just some guys that weren't there yesterday have been
around it.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
But we don't get any injury reports. No, No, we're
not thinking that he might have been in and out. No,
it could have been college related. Yeah, it could have
been college.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
He might have had something that he needed to finish up,
or actual graduation itself.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
That's that we've seen, actually graduation next week next week.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
So yeah, I mean it could be a lot of reasons.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Maybe you had to pick up his gown.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
You know your question Fred about you know, did they
maybe install more you know quicker. I mean the two
things that I would I don't know, we we all,
none of us know. The two things I would fall
back on is what Evan said about sort of I
think more of a base familiarity with what they're doing,
going back probably to something closer to what they've done.

(11:00):
That helps everybody. And just the fact that I think
I don't I'm not trying to be mean and disrespectful,
but the coach knows what he's doing. Yeah, and they
were learning Patricia and Judge were learning what they were
doing last year. So you can't possibly be as up
to speed when you have your coaches learning what they're
doing along with the players as you would be if

(11:21):
the coach absolutely knows what he's doing. And Mac talked
about they absolutely have brought some Alabama terminology to the table,
and we saw some RPO type action yesterday. Just I'm
talking formationally, I'm not talking necessarily execution wise. Obviously you
can't run the ball with any degree. They did have
some carries yesterday, but you're not going to learn anything

(11:43):
but what they're doing with no pads on. But I
do think there was some carryover to what they're doing,
and I think they're probably from mentally most of the
players are at a level further along than they were
last year.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, I thought one interesting moment. I don't know how
much you guys heard or watched of Bill Ryan. He'd
definitely hear his voice at times, But there was, you know,
one play, I think they went down the field and
he was very like positive, like that's what we're looking for,
you know. Just that was what kind of stood out
to me. I was kind of waiting for him to
yell at somebody or you know, get fired up. But
it seemed like he was I don't want to speak
say he was happy with the practice, but it just

(12:16):
it seems like things were going the.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Way he wanted them to.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
He wasn't getting agitated, and neither were the players, and
that's you know, it all feeds into it. So I
just overall, you got that feeling when we first heard
from Bill O'Brien this offseason, of like this guy's got
some head coach mojo, and you know, to Paul's point,
he knows what he wants and the players are clearly
understanding what he wants, and so it's a good start.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
It's a good start.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
You don't want to overreact, but I.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Think it was.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
It was encouraging to see any kicker updates. Well, Ryland
had a pretty Yeah, Ryland. Ryland probably would have hit
what five of the last.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
Six He hit five in a row into the skinny uprights,
and then he missed one that would have been good
in the regular uprights, and then he missed one like that.

Speaker 6 (12:55):
He can control the ball a lot better than the
last kicker they drafted, certainly, so I think Eric, but
I think that's the biggest thing, Like, I'm not looking
at can he make a sixty yard field like I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
But looking at the way the ball gets kicked.

Speaker 6 (13:08):
Yeah, a lot of really like football. Actually, you can
tell that he's got control of the football and he can.
It's I'm trying to hit the hit this. I'm going
to hit it here.

Speaker 11 (13:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
It's not like going like like I've never seen, never seen.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
I've seen kickers in college do that, and I used
to go to Northeastern games.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
I saw that a lot. With the ball going sideways.
I haven't seen it ever in.

Speaker 6 (13:31):
The There was a lot of barringer hype too.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (13:34):
Yeah, the ball coming off his foot, you know, really
make a sound.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
I think the other guy kicked the ball pretty good too.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Corliss Weight his last name, minutes.

Speaker 6 (13:44):
Some good hanging times. Yeah, out there stop.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
I didn't read any of that.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I did read some of that.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
With the Zappi first team thing, any.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Indication that they're already practicing.

Speaker 6 (13:57):
Drills with the new rule, the new UH kickoff fair
catch rule and kickoffs, I don't think are you allowed
to do kickoffs this time of year? I don't know
if you're allowed to.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
Mean, I don't know if you can cover. I mean,
I don't know if you can cover. Yeah, they were
just kind of punting to guys catching the ball. They
didn't have anybody actually covering them. But in terms of
special teams, noteworthy is Joe Judges exclusively working with special teams.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
At least loudly. Now. He spent almost whatever Bill tells
him to do whatever.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
But they were on a on an opposite field for
the most part, right, wouldn't you say that they were
on that that that right field, you know, the right
side from our perspective, And he was, you know, his
typical boisterous self. And then Matthew Slater actually talked about
it after practice. You know, obviously Slater loved having him

(14:55):
as a special teams coach and he's looking forward to
getting back into that. He was quick to say, you know,
with Cam and Joe Houston, you know, not wanting to
ruffle any feathers there, but I think it's it's pretty
clear that he is going to be a special team.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Speaking of Slater and ruffling feathers, he had.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
A fantastic, fantastic possible.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
To say about the league, just you know, this is
not about safety in his mind, you know, they have
a lot of opportunities to do that and they haven't
done it. This is more he thinks getting rid of
the play.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Well, I just love the way he said this has
nothing to do with player safety, and he went through
a lot of different things that would show you that
they're not concerned. And then he came flat out and
said it. It's basically and I'm paraphrasing what he actually
said about the league, but it's it's for you. It's
so they can show you and the fans that they

(15:51):
that they're interested. He's basically called him fraud.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
You know, I was thinking about the player safety thing
and until they get rid of Thursday night games, everything
they say.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Is but he had a lot like he goes that's
low hill. I know, I know, but he versus class.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
What would you think about on Thursday night games only
twelve minute quarters?

Speaker 4 (16:10):
Fred always wants to split the shorten it up, just
you know, get rid of the games at that point.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Twelve minute quarters.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
If you really want Thursday night football, there's a way
to do it without making it a strain on the players,
and you just lead into every Thursday night game the
teams are coming off a bye. But can you do
that for all eighteen weeks? No, but you can do
it from like week four through week sixteen.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
And then and then they don't play until after. Yeah,
just like now, well now, but now you're saying this
kind of like a mini buy before and after. Yeah,
well that would be the weird part. You'd have a buye.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
You'd have a buye before and then you'd have the
regular what you have now after No one ever plays
Thursday and then Sunday.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
No, right, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, they'd have I mean the buye would you'd have
a week off, then you have another, so I mean
it would be kind of in an eye in there
in the middle.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
So like if let's say by start in week five, right,
so you have two teams on a bye in week five.
In a week six they play on Thursday night, So
now they had the proper rest to get into that game. Yeah,
it doesn't work perfectly because you can't have a game
every week. And I understand it's all about money for them,
and then they would never do it. But if you
really wanted Thursday night football and you wanted to try

(17:23):
to make it a little bit better for the players,
less wear and tear.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
That there is a way to do it.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
You should never have any Thursday game.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
But Goodell, as mad Dog likes to call him Goodell,
he tells me that there's no data that suggests that
that injury is at any more significant on Thursday nights.
And I would just say, does that data include guys
that don't play in the game because they're not ready
after a Sunday game to play. They can't post on
Thursday night.

Speaker 6 (17:47):
Isn't it also just like the quality of the play right,
because these guys are just worn down, so it's not
the same.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
It just doesn't.

Speaker 6 (17:54):
You can just tell it esthetically.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
It doesn't look it. Spoken from a guy who's never
played football at that level and takes to play football
at that level, it's disrespectful.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
And unfortunately he had and I know I think the
Kelsey brothers have both said that they love Thursday nights
because it's it's perfect the way it's set up. You
play on Sunday, you have walkthroughs, no pads, it's you know,
you just you play in the game on Thursday and
then you get a mini buy after it. And as
long as there's enough people like that that that speak

(18:23):
that way, they're gonna they're gonna get away with it, Yeah,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
But good for I mean, he's a good voice to
say all those things too, just as a I mean,
at this point, is he the longest tenure veteran in
the league.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I mean, he's got to be close to it. So
that's good.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah, God was he good though, listening to him talk
like that, Like he was so measured. It wasn't a rant.
It was so measured and thoughtful that you couldn't help
but take it, you know, take it to the bank.
And and I don't have a problem with the touchback rule,
but I do have a problem with them saying that
it's in the name of player safety, right, yeah, Like
that's and that I think that's where where Slater's coming from.

Speaker 6 (19:00):
The returner on the Cowboys, I can't remember his name
at the top of my head. He was the pro
bowler in the NFC for returners last year. He was like,
I'm not fair catching it, Like that's my chance to shine,
Like I'm not you know, he said that they had
the same rule in college and he never fair caught
it in college. So I'm still waiting to see. I
know there's a lot of we get questions every week
in the mailbag, what's this mean? What's this going to

(19:21):
mean for roster building? Bill was asked about it yesterday.
I'm still waiting to see how many guys are actually
going to fair catch it in season before we overreact,
because like Marcus Jones, do you want him to fair
catch it or do you want him to return it?
I want him to return it.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
I think I think what it's done is it's probably
taken away the you know, the chip kickoff, Like we're
gonna just skyt as high as we can, try to
land it at the ten yard line, because that's gonna
get it.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
If the guy's got a good enough leg where he
can get hang time and put it inside the ten,
you're gonna have to fair catch it.

Speaker 6 (19:51):
But that's difficult to do off a tea. Like it's
one thing to punt it like that, but to do
it off the tee that's harder. And guy, you know,
a guy like cord All Patterson, he think he's fair
catching it. No, he's he's gonna try to take it
to the house like and that's what I That's why
I let's see, like if we'll see what the fair
catch rate is now pre rule, and then let's see

(20:12):
what the fair catch rate was this season and how
much of it. If it's a five percent difference, then
we're not even gonna tell like it's not even we're
not even going to really feel it.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
And then Slater having the information too, you know, like
the injuries were one fewer than one percent, like nine
over ninety nine percent no injuries.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, all right. And then Bill had his press conference
before practice and he was asked about the lost OTAs.
But that's all in the past.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
That's already in the past. Yeah, no need to talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
He took well, I mean he need to take responsibility
when pressed a little bit.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
But yeah, as expected.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
I mean Tommy Curry went right at and was like,
you know, should we blame Joe Judges for this?

Speaker 2 (20:51):
And I mean it's kind of just blame me, But yeah,
we're off.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
We're off with the uh with the Bill press conferences
at everything. Give a nice weights to the camera. I
saw that that at the beginning.

Speaker 6 (21:00):
The beginning was as that was as much smiling as
I I think I've seen him a long time. Maybe
it's the off season, you know, it's no pressure right
now with games and.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Stuff like, Can I bring up one more thing though?
I just I got to say something about as many
things you want, we can't make court because I just
feel like, all of a sudden, he's got like like
a monitor, Like I feel like it's one of those
situations about it, yeah, like and now and now, well
we're gonna Now you've got to be under this guy, like,
I don't know, I just wonder what his what his
headspace is like right now, because it's got to be
a tough position to be in where you've been running
the show for a couple of years and now you've

(21:31):
got a big personality. I'll say, you know, kind of
looks like back in that won't fold running things.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
He'll be running the offense by by week three.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
But I I do wonder that.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
And uh, and just the defense, I mean, we haven't
really talked about the defense at all. Havn't Yeah, I
want to, I'll set I'll from Maphu gushing too, But
I thought that their depth just stood out in the
secondary to me, Like we've without Devin, They've.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Got some experienced guys back there. I know, nobody wants
to hear.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
You know, Miles Bryant is out there starting, but you know,
look he's played a few years here.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
He knows what he's doing.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
So I think even without you know, without Marcus Jones there,
without Christian Gonzalez there, they were still able to you know,
roll some starters out there, had a rotation going on
at the free safety spot. I'll let Evan talk about Mapu,
but I just interesting to meet key On White playing
outside linebacker, standing standing up a lot, yeah, which which
is interesting to me. I I kind of envisioned him
more as you know, hand down guy, move him up around,

(22:24):
and but if he's able to play on the edge
and stand up a little bit and they can put
him down, they can stand him up. My my excitement
a little bit.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
And my initial thought was, like, we keep talking about
the potential Dietrich Wise replacement for him. Well, I don't
recall many times, if any at all, of Dietrich Wise
standing up like just the cupping, you know, right, just yeah,
there might be like a specific call that you know,
we're gonna try to get him, you know, this defensive
end because what we're doing, he's got to drop into

(22:53):
his zone over there. But I thought Keon White was
more linebacker yesterday than defense. Well, you know, it's it's
interesting because you know which I wasn't expecting.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
You know, they've done this a lot in this spring,
like just to see what a guy looks like cerebrally
in a different position. We know we can play inside,
we know we can play hand in the dirt outside.
Let's see what he looks like and how he reacts.
A great point to this position.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Great great point, especially with what he's trying to do,
which is playing on two feet and how natural does
he look? I mean they praised how smart he is,
but is he comfortable?

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Is the athletic?

Speaker 3 (23:21):
I mean, how how good is it? Is it a
guy that or he can occasionally drop when we need
him or is he know this could be a real
tool for us to build.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Off of and use.

Speaker 6 (23:29):
Yeah, I'll say with with Keon, like, it'd be interesting
to see what technique he's rushing from when he stands up,
because they'll use a lot of fronts where you're still
inside the tackle, but you're standing up and so he's
not necessarily doing anything differently than he would with his
hand in the dirty other than just a stance, So
how far out does he really go? Like, I don't

(23:49):
think we're gonna see Keon White as a wide nine,
Like it's going to be more closer inside into the tackle.
So it'd be interesting. But yeah, it would say June first,
it's one OTA practice and I'm our ready to call
it with Marty Mapoo? Okay, arety ready to call it?
And why they got a player here? Two reasons main
reason out there very first rep of seven on seven
next to Juwan Bentley, which tells me that the coaches

(24:11):
see it. Also not just you know what we saw
out on the field. They have plans for Marty Mapoo
that go beyond core special teamer and things like that.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
He's injured, right.

Speaker 6 (24:21):
He's in a non contact jersey, but still participating in
some of the stuff that they were doing. And it
just you can't help but stand out to you and
at these types of things when they break the huddle
for the very very first seven on seven rep with
Jonathan Jones and Juan Bentley and the starting defensive line
and the rookie linebacker is right next to Bentley, like that,

(24:42):
not Mac Wilson, not one of these other guys that's
been around to five whatever it was Marty Mapoo. And
I think the biggest thing all this is passing right there.
You don't do any real running in these camps. And
his eye discipline, like he doesn't look like he's panicked
or like not knowing things are coming from him. And
from a route coverage standpoint, and he was on the ball,

(25:05):
like his eyes were always in the right place.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
He looked calm, and you could tell that from where
you were standing.

Speaker 6 (25:10):
Oh yeah, yeah, you can see like you know, with
his his it's really his head gear, right, his whole head,
Like you can tell, Okay, he's seeing the crossing route
coming here, then he's passing that off, and then he's
picking up the next receiver in the succession of his
basic basically a progression, but from his point of view.
And then when he sees where the ball comes out,

(25:30):
that trigger is like immediate. And I I just from
where I was sitting, I could see it right away,
and I think he's they got something.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Could he be that sideline to sideline linebacker I crave.

Speaker 6 (25:42):
I think he certainly can be that in passing situations.
I don't know if he's going to be an every
down linebacker as a rookie, but in those sub packages
as a coverage guy that comes in on second and long,
third down things like that. I think that's the plan
for sure, and that's what this time of year is,
when you really start to work that out. Yeah, ready
to call it.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, it looked light.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
I mean, he looks thin. I mean he doesn't look
like their usual kind of guy.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I don't care about that.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
Small yeah, but yeah, I agree with his presence. And
that was one of the most noteworthy things I saw
on defense. I don't I don't get into any of
this other stuff at this time of year, you know,
I kind of am looking at individual players and what
they look like. Like Mike I thought you talked about
Mike ka SICKI earlier. Yeah, you get to see he's
he is long, you know, and you know I've seen

(26:28):
Hi play from Miami.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
You kind of know.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
But now you see him kind I don't know why,
Maybe it strikes you a little bit different the kind
of I thought key On White, same kind of thing,
like whoa, he fills out the uniform. You know, I
met him in person.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
He's scary, dude.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
He's a big guy, you know, so that's the kind
of stuff I thought we we kind of talked about
in some other individuals Kevin Harris, I think the three
of us all agree. We thought he looked a little svelt,
looked like he dropped a few LB's. He's listed exactly
the same as he was last year. We'll see if
we get updates as the summer goes on with some
of those numbers. But I thought he was was quick

(27:01):
and looked uh and looked quick, looked good.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I got.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
I thought he looked quick, you know, just not talking
about performance because I think a lot of this and
this is why and this is not to take a
shot at Evan here with with MAPU, because I think
it is absolutely noteworthy. And I concluded my blog too
that he was out there with Bentley right away. Clearly
they have designs on him beyond the special teams thing
that I think he'll end up being. But I think

(27:27):
a lot of this stuff that they do with this
time of year is very scripted, and I'm not like,
that's why I'm not. Bill says all the time, it's
not for evaluation, you know, it's it's all it's all teaching.
And the other thing that Fred brought up earlier with
you know how Bill likes to start guys doing different things.
I think you know that that's certainly a possibility for

(27:49):
Keon White, certainly a possibility for Citi Sao. You know, like,
I'm pretty sure he could play guard. Let's let's see
if he can actually play tackle, you know whatever. We'll
line him up out there and do some of those things.
And then Bill yesterday, when he talked to us before
he went out there, he really specifically said, how much
you know, changing and mixing and matching they're gonna do.
You know, guys might be out there together for one play,

(28:10):
might be five plays. Don't don't read anything into it.
So I'm trying to listen to him. I always say,
go by what he does and not by what he says,
but I'm trying to do both at this time of year.
But without question, what Evan's talking about with Mapu is
it was noteworthy, just because I think exacerbated by the
fact that he's wearing a red non contact jersey, so

(28:32):
he you know, he's not even fully cleared yet, would
be my guess. And they want to get him out there,
tells me they want to get him as much reps
and experience just to get him up the speed as
they can.

Speaker 6 (28:44):
He just moved well. And I'm not like looking at like,
oh he made.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
This tackle past breakout.

Speaker 6 (28:49):
I didn't say, but I think mentally like they all
all the players, you know, talking to Juwan Bentley a
lot yesterday after practice, he said, this is it's all
about mental reps this time of year, right, like what
what are we supposed to be doing? What are our keys,
what are our reads? You know, what are we looking at?
And I think with Mapu, you could tell that his
eyes were in going to the right places and his

(29:10):
body was going in the right directions. And that's not
always the case, Like sometimes you get out there and
these guys are lost or they're just covering grass and
they're not actually influencing the play at all. And I
didn't think that that was the case at all with him.
But the biggest thing was was that he was out
there and how involved he was in the top package
of the defense already at this time of year is

(29:31):
usually very telling, especially for a rookie.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Hope he's healthy.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
So I kind of I kind of did that that
sort of disclaimer because at this time he hit the
three of us, you know, we kind of get inundated
with you know what about Trey Nixon last year, Like,
I totally get it. I understand, we understand what this
time of year is. We're just trying to tell you
what we saw yesterday, you know, and these are some

(29:55):
of the guys that stood out for us yesterday.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
In Max post practice press conference, he used the phrase
we're on the same page at least once, maybe more.
I don't think that's any coincidence normal, I think.

Speaker 6 (30:11):
One, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:12):
My takeaway was the word trust yeah four times. Yeah,
there was three trusts and a trustworthy. I went back
and looked because that that kept bringing my ear and
I think I think the message that he was trying
to portray yesterday was that he's trying to earn back
the trust of the locker room and the coaching staff.

(30:34):
And in turn, I believe he's also saying, and I
need to learn how to trust them because I didn't
last year.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
It's a two way street, two way street.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
The clean slate is a two way street, a bad relationship.
You've got to learn to trust again, right, we've all
been through that.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
So well, Mike, what are you trying to say so.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
As a result, sports illustrators come out and said that
the Patriots are going to win the age. I know,
Connor or let's go see that.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Let's go guy special.

Speaker 6 (31:03):
If Ota practices translated, and then then maybe, yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
At least our quarterback is out there. The Jets quarterback
hasn't even out there yet.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
It's too busy going to Taylor Swift Booty just a
quick comp. I mean, we saw a lot of Douglas yesterday,
not a lot of Booty.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (31:20):
And I would also like temper the expectations for to
Mario Douglas for the time being. The people that he
was out there with is important as much as the
fact that he was out there. It's great that he
was out there and that he was involved and they
were trying to get him up to speed in certain
things that he's gonna maybe be doing down the road.
But let me just say this, when you're out there

(31:42):
with Roley Webb and that's and that's who you're going
through the rep with like that, that I think is
an indicator that let's let's tap the brakes a little bit.
Like if you want to get excited, get excited about Taekwon,
like the you know, a guy like to Mario Douglas
for right now, is still in that O T a
rookie o T for me.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
We didn't get to see Roley Webb last year because
he came in the middle of the year. But my
reaction was like, oh, he's a receiver. Like I had
no idea. He was like, like it was so funny
because if.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
You're looking to ensure your home car road, I mean,
that's what it is.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
The other thing though, I just wanted to say though,
is uh, you know, maybe the experience at the Shrine
Bowl helped Douglas a little bit. Yeah, and like he
just has a little bit more of a grasp of
what's going on at this point because I did see
some good things out of out of Booty just in
some of you know, we catch some of the videos
and after practice the things you might have missed. But
it was weird because a long long portion like we're

(32:33):
seeing a lot of Douglas out there, but what Booty
been we haven't.

Speaker 6 (32:35):
Really I don't know.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
If you're a hot person, Yeah, that's another potential factor too. Yeah,
all the Lambines were trying to like negotiate around a practice.

Speaker 6 (32:43):
Of injuries, and you know, no, look, I thought that Douglas.
Douglas did what they asked him to do. That It
wasn't like he went out there and you were like,
oh my god, this guy's going to be a star.
But he he he was where he was supposed to
be and he caught the ball right, And I think
the one thing that we knew he was small. But
I wonder if you know, sort of like a slot

(33:04):
like almost like how they're envisioning using time Montgomery, like
that might end up being where he is long term,
is more of like a slot, a gadget, maybe even
out of the backfield a little bit. I do wonder
with his size if he's ever going to develop into
a true down the field receiver in the NFL like

(33:25):
he was in college. But he still got that juice
to be able to add some things underneath the defense
that might be important, Like if you get him matched
up in space against a linebacker like coming out of
the backfield, like he's gonna win that matchup.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
So I will see.

Speaker 6 (33:39):
I'm intrigued. But I would just mentioned with the receivers,
they only have like six guys out there right now
because Juju wasn't there, so Roley Webb has to take
reps at receiver. They're a little thin there, and I
know everybody's gonna go to DeAndre Hopkins and be like, well,
we might not be thin there, right, But I think

(34:00):
that even just adding another body there for training camp
is in play. I think they only have like seven
guys on the roster right now at that spots. They're
a little light there.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Were you counting Elie Cunningham as a receiver?

Speaker 6 (34:11):
I guess we are now, But like, are we counting
Malie Cunningham as a receiver because that's actually the plan,
right or because they just don't have any receivers, Like
they really don't have a ton of wide receivers for
this time of year.

Speaker 4 (34:22):
That could be another one of you with things ready, Yeah,
Malie Cunningham, you know they probably think he's going to
be perfect for a scout team quarterback, right, Yeah, Let's
see if he can give you anything as a receiver.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
That seems like the theme that we're kind of tying
all together is now is the time to just kind
of put guys in positions.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
It always has Why not? Why are they going to
stop now? They have always done it.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
The Eugene Wilson year. You know he played and I
always forget which is which first, but he played corner
in college and then and they I mean safety in
college and they put him at corner in the spring
and completely switched it when the season started.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
So it's like, what which of these things are going
to stick?

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Because we know you can do what Brandon Merriweather was
the same thing. You played both and then you figure
it out. You know what's what he's more valuable at?

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, all right, eight five to five Pats five hundred
is the A sticket hotline, web radio at Patriots dot
com is the email address. Let's get to some of
the phone calls here. We'll start with Patty and agawam.
What's up Patty, top gentlemen.

Speaker 12 (35:25):
So I wanted to touch on a couple of things.
First thing, heavan could corroborate this because I said this
two weeks ago on Catch twenty two, and I'm not
overreacting to it from what I read yesterday, but I
did predict Mac Jones to be the breakout player of
this year the Patriots team. Okay, and Paul you kind
of touched on what he was saying last year, and

(35:47):
one of the things he said last year about the
coaching staff was we're all learning together, which is you know,
kind of dominos if you think about it, and just
hearing him talk and talking about right, how he there
is trust and everyone seems to be on the same page.
I mean, it's refreshing.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
There's a clear delineation. Now Bill O'Brien will be the
teacher and you will be learning.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
Well, that didn't take his press briefing as being as
hopefully positive as everybody, because a lot of other people
did to put it out.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Matt mac jones.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
I thought the first thing he said to he was
referencing like, you know, oh, it's normal now, like he's
still talking.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
That's positive, still talking about last year.

Speaker 13 (36:26):
I know.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
But if he thinks it's normal and if he's happy,
that's that's half the job. I don't know.

Speaker 6 (36:30):
They don't want him to talk about next last year,
then maybe the head coach would stopped talking about last year.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
Well the head coach said that's in the past, said
it about seven times yesterday.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
It actually was like yesterday, you know.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
What they say, happy QB, happy life, right, I Patty,
I don't know what you do.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
I mean that's yeah, the whole like breakout thing. I
think mac Jones will be much better than he was
last year. Like, does that qualify as a breakout.

Speaker 6 (36:57):
If he was better than twenty one?

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Are we saying that.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
He's going to I was going to break out his
four thousand yards and over thirty touchdowns.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
Or or emerging as one of the better quarterbacks in
the league. Yeah, Like yeah, yeah, Like I think if
he returns.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
To what he was, really a breakout.

Speaker 6 (37:12):
But he did mention, and I think the best part
about the presser for him was that he did mention
that he's going to be a sponge and that O'Brien
has been to all these different stops. And he put
O'Brien with Steve Sarkisian and Lane Kiffin and like some
of the other, you know, really big time offensive coordinators.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Because he respected Yeah he didn't.

Speaker 6 (37:32):
He was talking about Alabama at the time, so he
didn't mention McDaniels, but I'm sure he would put McDaniels
in the same dable. It was another one, Mike Loski,
who's a big time offensive offensive coach. So he mentioned
all these guys with the same breath of Bill O'Brien.
So I do think he totally is embracing an understanding
like I'm not going to be coaching anybody this year,

(37:52):
Like I'm not going to be telling anybody what to
do like this.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
That's how I took him. Yeah, well, you just think
as a quarterback, you take normal for granted sometimes that
you're offensive coordinator knows what he wants to do, has
a vision for the offense. He can tell every player
what they're supposed to do, want to play, Versus you
come into a year where you're like, I don't think
our coaches have a vision for what they want us
to do. So I think from that perspective, it puts
a little bit more into perspective for me.

Speaker 6 (38:17):
He also mentioned that Bill O'Brien commands the room and
like the way he runs the room is impressive.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
There's nobody who's going to like screw up route space.
Ye bill O'Brien's watch.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
Yeah, you know, speaking of that, I thought Kendrick Bourne
was was much more active yesterday too.

Speaker 6 (38:33):
Did drop a ball up the scene?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah he did, Yeah he did with no contact. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
You just I just wonder, you know, what's going to
carry over footsteps.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Let's go to Todd, North Carolina. What's up Todd?

Speaker 14 (38:46):
Hey, guys, I know it's a silly season, and you
know everybody's predicting every different thing, and everybody's kind of, you.

Speaker 15 (38:52):
Know, got something strained. So I just want to hear
who deuces most current man crushes on the field.

Speaker 12 (38:59):
He has one every year.

Speaker 15 (39:00):
I think for Evan it's my poo. I'm not sure
who you know, Fred.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Would have, and I do have him crush on the Patriots.
I had to think about that.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah, I don't pick one in O t A s
because I because I have a defense guy and he
pads to come on before I can, you know, of course,
not the cost. I just that was when I just
felt in my heart, you know, I knew.

Speaker 6 (39:22):
That's not that's not a great example.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
That was my my first year here here, my first
year year. That was who I got painted to.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
But I think probably at this point on White, but
I'm definitely.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
I think I think yes, he filled out. I was
going to say, you know, key On White could be
the guy he's got to earn my crush, but.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
Sure he's going home to work.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Right right now. I would say Christian bar More. I
thought about him too.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
I mean, he wasn't there, but I just a guy
that could really provide a boost that I don't think
people are really.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
So now we're talking about players like ability. Yeah, I
think he's talking about like Derek.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Stupid, like a stupid player. Who am I attracted to? Actually?

Speaker 3 (40:02):
I can I amend Mike?

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Can I amend this? Can I put it?

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Ma a b Bearinger with the glasses I'm all, I
think this is hil bothered. We got one, we got
a punner with glasses on.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
I'm ready to go.

Speaker 7 (40:12):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
You know, Brandon Spike's not here anymore.

Speaker 6 (40:16):
So I like athletic people. I like people that move well.
Me too, and that's why Mapu and Taekwon gave me
a little little Taekwon yesterday.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
The dynamic element is what I I'm attracted to too.
But yeah, you know, I thought the two second year
running backs, both of them Harris and Pierre Strong too.
Pierre Strong caught a number of passes yesterday in different formations,
some screens.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
A lot of screens, say woman, would you think of
an overall yesterday? It's just what the offense was working
on because it seemed like a lot of misdirection, a
lot of like you know, wide receiver screens, you know,
just not like conventional kind of stuff just seemed like
more so special in.

Speaker 6 (40:58):
The interest of not giving too much away, So Bill
O'Brien doesn't get mad at me. I think the biggest
thing that you saw was the screen periods that they
were working on. We're clearly working on building those foundational
elements because they're going to have compliments off of those plays.
So my guess is that some of the screens that
we saw yesterday are going to be attachments to RPOs

(41:19):
and then they're probably going to then once you get
the pads on and you add the offensive line to it,
and you add the run game to it, now that's
where it all starts to build out from there. The
other thing that I think really stood out was the
amount of motion that they were using, not shifting, but
motion at the snap more than enough times where they
were motioning guys using that orbit motion when the player

(41:42):
goes behind the quarterback and then coming out through the
other side of the formation, which obviously creates stress on
the defense. You know, you go from this is the
two receiver sides, now it's a three receiver side and
how are we going to cover that and react to that.
There was some play action, some under center play action
going on, but it was screen. It was quick game,
it was under center play action. And that's what we

(42:03):
all want to see, I think from this offense. I
think we want to see those three things. Get the
ball out, take your calculated shots down the field. But
I think one of the biggest differences between this practice
and practices that we saw last year. There wasn't a
whole lot of holding the football, like the quarterback wasn't
patting the baby in the pocket, staring like looking around
like this. And then you know how many times did

(42:23):
mac Jones throw the ball away in practice?

Speaker 3 (42:26):
And that's a really good point too.

Speaker 6 (42:27):
In practice, you're throwing the ball away.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
Earlier in the show, I had mentioned that I thought
the offense looked looked, you know, pretty good last spring too.
But that's one area that was different is I think
a lot of those deep balls to Trade Nixon that
we talked about were plays that we all kind of
looked at. I'm not sure they would have been There
wasn't really any of that yesterday. Now, there wasn't anything
really down the field. They had one deep seam route

(42:52):
to Thornton. I think that it took a little time
to develop, but I agree with Evan. I didn't think
the quarterbacks were holding the ball, padding it a lot,
and you know, having a hard time finding someone. They
did occasionally, but not like last year. I think that
might have been a difference between the actual execution of
the plays from this year to last year.

Speaker 6 (43:13):
Yeah, they had one play in particular, the one that
you were talking about earlier, where Bill O'Brien was applauding
what was happening and they motioned Taekwon over to that
side of the field, And what I think he was
applauding was that the routes got up the field and
they were covered, but they they brought the gravity right.
They brought those guys up the field, and instead of

(43:34):
sitting there and waiting and waiting and waiting to see
if the routes down the field we're going to develop,
Mac just dumped it off into the flat to Taekwon,
who had space with just one guy over there that
he could make somebody miss and turn up the field.
And that the timing of the play and the spacing
of the routes were what I think Bill O'Brien was applauding.
You know, that's what we're looking for.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
That's what we want to do.

Speaker 6 (43:54):
Even if the downfield shot isn't there, We're not going
to hold the ball for four seconds waiting for it
to happened. We're just gonna kind of survive the play.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
And we did stop.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
We did see a lot of you know, the two
tight end stuff too. Again, not wanting to get into
what they were actually doing with that, but maybe more
than we saw last year with with Henry and in Smith.
I think there was maybe a little bit more Henry
Kasiki than we saw last year. We'll see if that continues.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Christian rites in from North Carolina. Evan is still suffering
from recency bias. Let's not overreact to the Taekwon looking
good as we can remember train Nixon look like Randy Moss,
hoping he does improve this year. But let's relax on
the hype of Thornton. I'm seeing through Twitter. Can you
just enjoy it?

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Like there's nothing wrong with at this point.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
But this is why I offered the disclaimer, because I'm
waiting for this. Yeah, because last year when we went
to practice, we told you what we.

Speaker 6 (44:55):
Saw just like we did that Tykwon Thornton was catching
passes all over the place yesterday.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
What else am I supposed to say the show? We're like, well,
Tay Kwong was really good yesterday, But I don't know.

Speaker 6 (45:06):
When I wrote about it yesterday.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
I used.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
Murray's Harris was my big one in twenty nineteen, my
first year covering the team all year, you know, first
the OTA, first Mini camp, all that stuff. I fell
in love with Murray's Harris. I was like, you know,
this guy's going to be a player for this team.
Brady's like dapping him up after play.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
I thought it was definitely going to make the team.
Ye'll tell you that.

Speaker 6 (45:29):
Yeah, And then like in August, he gets cut, like
not even first, he didn't even get close.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
So I get it.

Speaker 6 (45:36):
But with Taekwon, like that's the fiftieth overall pick in
the draft, Like, that's not Maurice Harris. That's not some
like cast off that you're trying to make something out of.
This is a guy that you are drafting high in
the draft, with real talent, like, with real tools at
his disposal. And it wasn't so much like the results
of the plays. It was how they were getting him open,

(45:58):
like how they were using him in a different ways,
that they were incorporating his speed into the offense. It's
not like, Okay, yeah, he caught a deep post in
seven on seven. I'm not like gushing about that. I'm
just saying that the fact that they are getting him
as open as he was on like, I never saw
that last year. I never saw a guy five yards
behind the defense and nobody within ten yards of him,

(46:20):
Like that was not happening as often last year. And
in one practice we saw him get open, probably more
than we saw all down the stretch last year.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
And so Evan and Micha will make fun of me
because I got excited about one play. They just maant,
like the most routine twelve yard out that you've seen
every football practice you've ever attended at any level. They
run that play, and I just think that's perfect for him,
Like he has to make the cornerback backpedal with his speed. Yeah,
So instead of trying to like see if we can

(46:51):
outrun five guys going across the field potentially getting lit up,
why not just get a guy on the outside and
take the easy first down throws, you know, the drive
starters that that they used to have back in the
day with Brandon Lafel and the guys, you know, Brandon Lloyd.
Even even though I couldn't stand Brandon Lloyd, he had

(47:11):
a pretty productive season that year. I liked the idea
of incorporating that, you know, if he can catch twenty
of those, you know, and then eventually you beat him
with double moves and stuff like that, off of that,
you don't have to send him across the middle all
the time.

Speaker 6 (47:28):
Yeah, that was I think what was the whole thing
about the offense was you could see how these foundational
plays that they're installing in the spring, the things that
they could then evolve off of that in six months,
you know when it really gets real. And that's I
think something that I that we never saw last year,
Like there was no sequencing, sequencing, rhyme or reason, no structure,

(47:50):
and now you can see sort of the bones of
all right, this is what they're gonna fall back on,
and then we're gonna build off of that.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Ray and Saint Louis says, let's have for react. Yeah,
I'm excited to see all the different reports coming from OTAs.
I really liked how Mac talked yesterday. He sounds more
like a leader, Like he has more swagger and I'm
excited to see the guy's rally around him. How did
Kendrick Bourne look?

Speaker 3 (48:13):
Yeah, he was active, Yeah, active. I mean I think
with Mac too. It's just I mean, I was expecting
that this would happen because he's just a kid. I mean,
he's gonna mature and obviously the experience he had last
year is something that can mature you pretty quick. But
he just it didn't feel like he was constantly running
everything through the Is it okay to say this?

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Can I say?

Speaker 3 (48:32):
You know, like he just was conversational. He made fun
of Tommy Kern's hat a little bit, like, you know,
just you didn't really get that stuff last year. He
was just more so in it, so, you know, concerned
with making sure he didn't say the wrong thing or
you know, so he wasn't at all.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Just to see him get away.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
From that and kind of just be calm and you know,
responding to questions and having a little repartee with the reporters.
You know, I don't know what's gonna mean. I still don't.
I still have, you know, questions about the performance in
runch time with him, and you know, but I have
some positive juice going right now, and that's you know,
all you can ask at this point. I mean, I
you don't feel somewhat positive about your team at this point,

(49:08):
I think you're gonna be miserable.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
All.

Speaker 4 (49:10):
You have to have some sort of enthusiasm at least
for the newness of it.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
All, especially with like these young kids who I mean,
like you know Thornton. I know he's the second year guy,
but there's still a lot of potential there. I mean,
he's you know, a kid who can play, and you know,
to see that player. I mean, if there's one player
you said, who's one guy that you think if you
really popped in an OTA practice you'd pick it to be,
it probably be him.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Just that's what they need.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Everybody's clamoring still for you know, DeAndre Hopkins, and you know,
all of a sudden, Hey, maybe if you've got a
guy here that you found last year in the draft
that I mean, that's that's way better than going out
and getting old.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Assunder And it's one thing you can see when they're
in short to speed. You know, when a guy's fast,
he stands out I go back to that Bethel Johnson
when he first got here and returning kicks and you know,
zero to sixty, like he was just different than everybody else.

Speaker 6 (49:54):
Yeah, the clip that we posted on Twitter of the
bomb to Thornton is getting some negative feedback, to say
the least, because it looks like there was nobody covering
him and so it looks like it's against air, so
that we're hyping up a play against air. It was
in seven on seven and he ran by everybody, right,
and in these types of practices, if he wasn't doing

(50:15):
those types of things, that would be a major concern
because he is a four two eight guy that should
be doing those types of things when there is no
pads and there's no real contact. So if he what
do you want us to say, Like, if he was
getting covered and everybody was all on top of him
all the time, all practice long, that would have been
a bad sign. The fact that he was actually getting
open means that we're at least on that baseline, like

(50:37):
we were at least past that eye test.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Well, you saw him dust Jack Jones once off the line.

Speaker 6 (50:42):
Yeah, Yeah, the lateral movement off the line looked good yesterday.
You know, just his press releases and his ability to
get off the line of scrimmage. When I thought the
route that Paul was talking about, it was, you know,
that had some dressing on it and some seizing and
on it. You know, it wasn't just like, oh, I'm
just going to get to the top around and like
lazily come through this break and running out. It was

(51:03):
I'm gonna set up the out in the stem and
then I'm gonna snap it off and I'm gonna create separations,
spun the corner around. So those are the types of
things that you just want to see this time of year.
Let's see what it looks like when the pads come on,
no doubt about it. But it's encouraging.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Rusty's in arlin, He says. I genuinely am glad we're
back to the overly positive coverage of OTAs Like before,
I think the wide receiver position will be the most
interesting watch unfold, and especially with Cunningham effectively being a
wide receiver from what I've read when Edelman was here initially,
what was he doing in camp? Is there a chance

(51:37):
one of these rookies or Thornton shows enough to push
Parker or Borne off the roster. Just seems like a
bit of a log jam if Cunningham or Booty shows enough.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
So Evan just said they don't have enough receivers in camp,
and now we have a long cham.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
No, I don't.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
I don't think either of those guys can.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
And Edelman was a wide receiver in his first camp.
Now he mostly handled punts. He was returning a lot
of punts early on in his career, but he was
a receiver immediately.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Yeah, go watch his football life. He talks a lot
about that those initial days in camp. What builds like
first things saying to him, it's good stuff.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
We just we get a lot of that about like
getting rid of Devonte Parker or Kendrick Bourne, Like that's
like the big question is, oh, like if this rookie
receiver pops, like, is that going to push these guys
off the roster? And I just I don't think the
Patriots are in the position to be casting off playable
receivers like Devonte Parker might not be specially might not
be a true number one, but he can play in

(52:34):
the league, like in Kendrick Bourne the same thing. So
are the Patriots really in the position to just say like, actually,
we're too good now for you. Kendrick Bourne like no,
like they don't have that kind of receipt.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
I was the thing kind of reviewing some of the
games again, was that the Parker was really probably the
only guy last year that made I mean, and I
know he was hurt, and you know he's in and out,
but but he throughout the year made some big plays.
You know, there weren't a lot of them, but I
think a large majority were made by him.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
I think they hang on to him. Chris in Denmark
wants to know why does it always sound like there's
a truck backing up in the background, because there is
a lot of times there's a lot of construction going
on around here. Concerts, setups not surprising. Let's see somebody
had an Ota comment where it was, oh here it is.

(53:18):
Rick writes in from Dallas. I love that they're using
Mapu at linebacker at least for now, and hope he
stays there too. I'm kind of disappointed cunning him spend
most of his time catching passes like Evan. I was
hoping they'd use him as a developmental third string quarterback.
Well he did get it some development three. I love
that Mac, at least on the first day, was the

(53:39):
clearcut quarterback. Remember it's the first day for us. Yeah,
they've had they've been out there A question why keep
Joe Judge? I know Bill thinks he brings a lot
to the table, and I'm sure his knowledge would be beneficial.
But if the players have such a negative opinion of him,
doesn't that negate his contribution. A leader can't lead if
no one follows. Doesn't Bill risk losing the locker room

(54:00):
completely by keeping him on the staff? I hate calling
for a person's job, but the Patriots motto has always
been the team comes first. This point, is Bill really
putting the team first by keeping him? Well?

Speaker 3 (54:11):
I think Bill believes that he's a really good coach.
I mean, I think you'd have to ask the players.
You'd have to truly get a sense of is their
lingering resentment towards him? And is his presence even on
special teams this season, is still going to affect people
like Mac Jones and Kendrick Bourne and those kind of guys.
But I think Bill has too much respect for Joe

(54:31):
Judge and is going to keep him in the fold
because he thinks he thinks he helps.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
All right, Paul's food is here, so we'll take a break,
and when we get back, more calls and emails here
on Patriots.

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so head to the app now and check it out
if you haven't tried it yet. Fantasy football is easy

(01:02:19):
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Patriots fans, you'll want to check out the replay on
this one. Pat the Patriot is stealing the show tonight
with his Bank of America mobile banking app.

Speaker 13 (01:03:08):
That's right, folks, So here we see Pat cheering and
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Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Some of the content of Patriots On and now Great
Moments in.

Speaker 8 (01:05:07):
History.

Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
I wasn't I wasn't born for for eighty five obviously,
but you know, my dad, my uncle's, you know, grandfathers,
they would tell me about stories about that Super Bowl,
and they were just happy to beat in that Super Bowl,
and they knew they were going to get their doors
blown off by the eighty five Bears. Like there was
there was no conversation of whether or not they were

(01:05:29):
going to win that game. But the Packers Super Bowl,
they they probably should have won the game just the
way that the game unfolded. And to me, Parcels is
much to blame I mean Reggie White, like, can we
we don't put a tight end over there, chip them
like do something.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
This is all retroactive because how old were you in
ninety six four?

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
He's so mad, like you're kicking off the dem.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Little baby Evan getting mad, whipping his blanket.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
That's another great moment from.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
All right back here on Patriots on Filter at eight
five five pass five hundred is the ace take a
hotline web radio at Patriots dot com. It's the email address,
it's Deuce, it's Evan, it's Paul, it's myself, Matt and
the booth. We're here until two o'clock and then it's
catch twenty two. Evan and Alex will react even more.
How did Barth take out yesterday's thing?

Speaker 11 (01:06:22):
You know?

Speaker 6 (01:06:24):
Pretty good? I think you know he's sometimes is a
little bit more tepid around this time of year, doesn't
get quite as excited as I do, believe it or not.
But yeah, yesterday, I you know, they're on Reddit, the
Patriots reddit. There's just like tweets like from practice and
stuff that it goes goes crazy and there's like a
couple of things I was showing Barth of like well

(01:06:46):
even works for Patriots dot Com. Now, so like, can
we really take his analysis seriously? Like, you know, he's
on the payroll and I all that kind of stuff.
So maybe maybe maybe that influences me. Maybe it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Who knows, Andrew and l He still hasn't gotten his
T shirt Matt. Yeah, so Matt, Matty can take a
part a part of rocket Launcher and put it back together,
but he can't put a T shirt in the mail.
For sure. He got his sent out to him. Oh
oh okay, all right, well he says he still hasn't
gotten it. So I have a question.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Yeah, yes, So on catch twenty two, do we have
catch fourteen today?

Speaker 13 (01:07:21):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Oh, I.

Speaker 6 (01:07:25):
Was smart numbers. I'm going to use that now.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
I'm wicked smart.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Yeah, use that now?

Speaker 6 (01:07:29):
We are we are going to do like twenty minutes
on the rookie Specialists.

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
I'm sure I am going to go back and have
my friend rise now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Paul's food bearing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
I'm sure the YouTube crowd is all over it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Oh they are. Ryan in Situate writes in There's been
a lot of talk about the linebackers, in particular some
of the faster guys such as Wilson Mapu and McMillan.
My question is, with McMillan going to season ending IR,
does that open up a spot for mac Wilson. People
speculated that if Maphu got some run at linebacker, maybe

(01:08:04):
that pushes Wilson off the roster. Curious of your thoughts. Possibly,
I mean he was out there with with McMillan out again, yeah,
where he blew his achilles. I think last weeks he's
done for the year, So yeah, that's done.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
I think mac Wilson still kind of has an inside
track just for depth and special teams. But you know,
maybe somebody like Chris Bard beats him out, but he
was mac Wilson was playing a little bit on defense yesterday,
so I don't think you can totally, you know, write
him off. I think they already have plans for Maphu
anyway that probably were unrelated. But Devai's in that mix too.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Cameron writes in He's from Franklin said, what what what
was up with Bill Belichick yesterday? Nothing? Nothing new? H
And also what are some positive differences from this year's
first o TA compared to last year's where we talked
about it. I mean, it just looked a lot smoother everybody,
as Max said, was on the same page. They were

(01:08:57):
ready to go. It looked like a NFL off from
the get go. Not that at this time last year
it didn't, you know, because we had really no idea.
But you saw Bill O'Brien. There wasn't any questions about, well,
who's got the radio? You know it was Bill O'Brien.
He's calling the offense. It's gonna be his offense. There's
no doubt about it. Everybody's on the same page that way.

Speaker 6 (01:09:20):
That was refreshing, not like having to go into the
practice and be like, who's calm plays? He was doing this,
He was doing that, and like finding all the coaches,
like you just knew where everybody was supposed to be
and that's where they were.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
So there was a no huddle, back up and run
it again.

Speaker 6 (01:09:33):
Yeah, no, David Andrews in the middle of the offensive
huddle screaming at people.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Kobe writes in you guys all know way more about
football than I ever will. But last show, when you
were talking defensive strategy and personnel, I couldn't help but
wonder what Belichick would think if he listened to an episode.
I kind of know what he would say, would he
think you are morons who have no idea about what
you're talking about, or would you say, wow, these guys

(01:10:02):
make a lot of sense in the things they say
are accurate.

Speaker 6 (01:10:05):
Probably the first one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Yeah. But it's also I mean, like it's just football.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
It's not like this is like it is just organic
chemistry that you know, you're like there's routes that you
run and timing well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Even Bill tells a story that you know, like people
call them this defensive genius and his father wants a genius.
All you do is walk up and down the sideline.
I mean that's his father that said that.

Speaker 10 (01:10:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Yeah, no, I mean I think I mean that's you know,
obviously a passion for Evan and it certainly not as
much for me, but but but a passion then something
that was in you know, a motivator for me to
get involved because I just wanted to know more about
the game. But I think you can know more about
the game without being able to like break down a
playbook and tell you everything there is to know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
But you know, you start to pick up what.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
Different coverages are, and you know, like you know field
and boundary and you know the strategy that goes behind
those kind of things, and you know, I just I
think it's fun. You learn every year. I mean that
was you know, I think what was fun last year
about having Evan come aboard is you know, you look
at things a little bit differently, maybe you learn some things,
and you know, it's just just a.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
One of the great things about football, but also the
toughest to evaluate individual players is none of us know
really what the assignment is on every play. You know,
from the look of it, you can kind of guess,
but you don't know, like if it tackles all of
a sudden blocking no One, that might not necessarily have
been his fault, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Kind of just been a mess up on the protection call,
but it looks that wrong way.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
It looks that way, you know. But we don't always
know what the blocking assignments were, what a receiver was
really supposed to do, want to give and play? Why
two receivers ended up in the same place, Well, whose
fault is that? We don't We don't know. We can guess,
but yeah, you know, we don't really know.

Speaker 6 (01:11:45):
I try my best not to place like blame on
players as much as I can because of that exactly
like I you don't know. Now I could tell you,
like what the defensive structure looks like it should have been,
or what the route looks like it should have been,
and or if it was successful like that, which is
much more fun. I can tell you why it was successful.
But I'm not gonna say, oh, you know, Miles Bryant

(01:12:09):
blew his zone here, or you know Jack Jones blew
it here. And let's say if it's Manton Many, he
gets beat, he gets beat right, right. But in terms
of the nuances, yeah, that's but that's what makes football
so cool.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
Well, that's and that's why there can be what fifty
people out there covering practice yesterday, and everybody's you know,
I mean a lot of the things, a lot of overlap.
I'm sure people are reading other things.

Speaker 4 (01:12:29):
But you know, and there's ninety guys out there, and
sometimes you're watching something different and someone will say, well
I thought so and so look good doing this, and
you're like, wow, really, I really didn't even notice that
guy because you didn't. You didn't you weren't watching something
that he did.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Yep, eight five five past five hundred disease take an outline.
Let's go to Dan and Florida. What's up, Dan? Hey?

Speaker 21 (01:12:53):
Can you guys hear me?

Speaker 8 (01:12:54):
Yes, we can.

Speaker 21 (01:12:56):
Hey.

Speaker 22 (01:12:56):
How's it going?

Speaker 10 (01:12:57):
How you doing to good?

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Hey?

Speaker 22 (01:13:00):
So I got three things for you guys.

Speaker 21 (01:13:02):
I want you guys, get you guys.

Speaker 10 (01:13:03):
To stop on these three things. First thing is, did
you guys hear about Remondre Stevenson being named to the
All All I think it was the they called it.
He was named to they All Breakout team for twenty
twenty three?

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Who's Who's whose list is this? Uh?

Speaker 10 (01:13:22):
This is on Patriots Country?

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Patriots Country? Okay, okay, they're really going on on the list.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
I mean that's a very I love me some.

Speaker 4 (01:13:31):
Romondre Stevenson, the guy did rush for a thousand yards
last year and caught for like another five hundred, like
four and change. Anyway, like they got him.

Speaker 22 (01:13:40):
They got him listed for one thousand and forty yards
and five touchdowns on the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Season.

Speaker 6 (01:13:47):
In other words, what he did last year he only
has five touchdowns in this offense is in trouble?

Speaker 22 (01:13:52):
Yeah, I think he I like Vermondre. And then the
other two things, what do you what do you guys
think about the new title? And Anthony I don't pronounce
his last name, for sure, for sure, for sure. What
do you what do you guys think about him kind
of using him like how Josh mcdagiels did with the
with the fullback.

Speaker 21 (01:14:12):
But I don't want him to be a traditional fullback.

Speaker 22 (01:14:15):
I want him to be like I don't know if
you guys, Yeah, like Kyle used Check with the forty
nine ers, how they use him in the passing game, kind.

Speaker 21 (01:14:24):
Of go out there on some screen, maybe some bubble
blaze block a little bit. But also because I don't
want it to be predictable where every time we have
a fullback out of every team in NF I was like, Okay,
they're gonna go run, So I wanted to kind of
like mix it up. They throw him out on some
bubble screens and they get him out there going outside
kind of basically being like a Kyle us Check.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
I don't think he's as good as Kyle Check.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
I don't think they're gonna I think he's a depth
I think he's a death guy. I think if he's playing,
it's it's probably a bad sign. Thanks Danicky and Thornton
and those guys and Douglas. But he does have a
little bit of a full back background. So III gets
hurt or gets hurt in camp and you need an
extra body.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
He might He's probably the next guy up over Matt
Sokal or Scotty Washington or.

Speaker 6 (01:15:07):
They did use that at Alabama. They did use last year,
like a full back slash h back player. Bars would
know the guy's name, he's uh, yeah, you know, I
can ask him later, but yeah, he he uh. They
did use that player. And I think one of the
things that they were maybe doing yesterday maybe they weren't,

(01:15:28):
but they.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Is this clinical uh.

Speaker 6 (01:15:32):
They they were motioning players into the blocking structure on screens, right,
so it was adding on blockers onto the screen. And
maybe maybe that is something that that first her first
could do better than then Hunter Henry and Kisiki. Maybe

(01:15:55):
I'm getting ahead of myself.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
That one Vancouver with Paul, Hey, Fred, how you doing today?
Good bit?

Speaker 15 (01:16:04):
Okay, I want to I want to ask you a
couple questions. I want to get to my question today.
But you know, with the retire with the retirement of
Devin mccordy, it's an interesting fact about the Patriots roster
now that we have zero first round, second round, a
third round pick signed to a second contract on that

(01:16:27):
roster right now, like our own pick, not a single one.
And I find that really quite interesting in a roster
building thing. And I actually managed to find a study
on the internet about this kind of thing. Who resigned
second contract? What are those percentages? I found out that

(01:16:48):
for first round draft picks, thirty one percent sign with
their own team and fifty percent sign with a different team.
The second round is twenty four percent, forty three for
a different one, and round three sixteen. So when I'm
kind of thinking about, you know, I always just wanted
the Patriots to build a new core of players. So

(01:17:10):
here's my question, what current players do you want to resign?
And what do you think is a likelihood Bill will
do it? Because I look at a player like gosh
oo J. I don't agree with Evan that these that
quote elite pass rushers. I believe he's good, and I
do agree with Evan that you need somebody a specialist

(01:17:32):
like that with that kind of skill in today's game.
But I have no hope that Bill is going to
match what the market's going to pay for those guys.
So yeah, that's good, And is there any reason you
think they really should have kept those are my questions.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
Okay, football, I would say Kyle Duggar will be my
pick for his answer. Yeah, I think it's probably between
Dugger and new j But yeah, for the reasons that
I do agree, and I think that's kind of what it's.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
I hope bak on, you know, I hope Barbour gives
them a reason.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Yeah, I agree undred percent on that, and I mean
i'd put him almost near the top. I mean, I
think he's got the potential to be like that true disruptive.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
And the reason it's zero right now is very easy
to go back and just look, they've missed on draft picks, right,
It's not like a lot of the guys that they
didn't sign the second contracts are dominating around the league, right,
you know. They they missed on you know, Nikhil Harry.
You know, I mean, Isaiah Win just signed for peanuts

(01:18:32):
to compete in Miami, and he was available for a
long time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
Like Sony Michelle's been like kicking around team.

Speaker 6 (01:18:39):
Even him and Nikkil Harry are both not on a
deep So.

Speaker 4 (01:18:42):
Those whatever eighteen nineteen drafts, like those are the guys
that should be on second contracts now. And we'll see
the twenty twenty draft. When you dugger och are all candidates,
we'll see it's get retained.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
I mean that call is just the heart of the
matter of why they are where they are right now.
They don't have they didn't draft those players.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
And again the difference here is it's not a matter
of the Patriots simply not resigning guys. And like Paul said,
then they go on and it's a miss rightly, so
they haven't felt they should resign him, and they were right,
but that begs you know that the problem is they
haven't drafted.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
Well now, if you want to go back further than that,
but at this point, those guys would be cycled out.
I think they were opportunities to sign guys that they
didn't like Trey Flowers, that'd be a good example.

Speaker 6 (01:19:37):
Yeah, Trey Flowers comes to mind. He didn't necessarily go
to to have a great well.

Speaker 4 (01:19:43):
Yeah, but he's good. I mean he signed a big
money contract.

Speaker 6 (01:19:46):
The only guy that on this team. I mean, Jowan
Bentley did sign a second contract just to be fair.
I know he's the only one, but like just it's
not zero.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
He was a fifth round pick. Yeah, so he said
he was only going the top three rounds.

Speaker 6 (01:19:59):
Okay, all right, I didn't hear that part. And also
with j uh, the league pays for sacks, like whether
they're there sacks against Arizona or there's sacks against whoever.

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
That's what I think his point, Yeah, Paul, right, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:20:12):
The league is gonna pay if he has another double
digit sax season, he's gonna get double digit money in
the open market. So that's just the way it works.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
And then you just wonder what another team thinks about
him because he's doing kind of the same thing he
did here in college. Is there really any reason for
another team to think we can we can play we
can pay him a.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Lot and we can play him a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
No, But I think Evan's right. You don't have to
envision him having a bigger role. But I envisioned him
getting double digit sacks as that guy for me, like
a closer, kind of like jeh Miller, Like I mean
probably not I mean that good, but that role, right,
that's what you're hoding.

Speaker 6 (01:20:46):
Some some teams, though, like especially for three, teams have
that like designated pass rusher role that's on the field
all the time. So it's not here you're asked to
set the edge like that's a big part of that
at S.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Barrett Right, it's a example. Yep. Let's go to Joe
in Connecticut. Hey Joe, Oh, hey guys, Hi Joe.

Speaker 23 (01:21:08):
I got a quick kind of off season question his
personal opinion from all you guys, how how else do
you personally feel the team handled Brady's departure? Are you
happy with how that went? Because personally I wasn't. I
think we had, you know, the greatest quarterback of all time, and.

Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
Yeah, I feel I think, I think we've been I
think we've been over this for a couple of years
worth of shows at this point. But I think, yeah,
I felt, and I think Fred agreed with me at
the time that I understand that from a logical standpoint,
what the Patriots did made sense, Fred, and I wanted
to see an exception made I just felt like this

(01:21:55):
is a guy who had done so much he deserved
to continue to play until he showed obvious signs of
not being able to play anymore in writing his own
story on the way out. And we weren't happy, right
am am, I speaking for you, Fred.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Yeah, I wasn't happy, you know, like, but like I
felt at the time, it was inevitable, like Brady wasn't
going to get you. Brady wasn't going to get the
respect he felt he deserved. And you know Bill and Robert,
you know, both felt okay, let's let him go. Now.
Remember you know Robert made that agreement that he wasn't

(01:22:30):
going to franchise. I mean, yeah, put the tag on him.
And I think that was a big concession. That was
That was his way of saying, thank you, I'm not
going to force you. I'll never trade you. He said
that openly, and I'm not going to put a tag
and you'll be able to leave a free man. And
I think that was Robert's give goodbye gift to him.

(01:22:51):
But yeah, it wasn't good. I mean, and obviously you
know now hindsight's twenty twenty, it was the wrong one.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
Yeah, And I'm not going off of what he did, right,
I'm going at the time. At the time, I think
Fred and I both said, I mean, how can you know,
why would you pull the plug on this era any
earlier than you needed to? And look, there were signs
in nineteen I don't I understand that they didn't have
a great offense. We've gone over all the personnel issues
that they had in twenty nineteen, Tom Brady didn't play.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
Very well with what he had. He didn't play very well.

Speaker 4 (01:23:23):
I don't think he was Yeah, I don't think he
was really all in emotionally and all the things that
he normally did. So I understand where the Patriots were
coming from. I just disagreed with it, that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
I just felt like by twenty nineteen the ship had
kind of sailed like it had already been kind of written,
like it was too late. Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
I think.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
I think the groundwork had been laid before.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
Five years.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
Five years of groundwork.

Speaker 6 (01:23:47):
He calls in to talk about something that happened three
years ago and then they hang out.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
No, not the first one, not the first one to
tire of us, listen, you know. I just think at
the time, the rift between Bill and Tom was just
too great. Like Bill was never gonna, like all of
a sudden, say all right, Tom, you're our guy for
the next three years, and we're gonna give you thirty
million dollars a year, and we're gonna give you a
you know, a wr one and all that. That's that

(01:24:12):
just wasn't gonna happen. If it had happened, I think
Brady would have been back all in. I think he
would have been back here, and I think he would
have you know, been re energized. But that was never
gonna happen, So I think the split had to come.

Speaker 3 (01:24:26):
Yeah, you know, I just think it's weird how they
won a super Bowl in twenty eighteen, like and and
and at that point it wasn't quite like this is
getting to be the end, But they won a super
Bowl even when things were kind of falling out. Just say.
The only thing I do wonder, and it's been brought
up a ton, but had they not missed on the
Nikhil Harry pick, had they drafted a receiver that Brady

(01:24:46):
was like, hell, yeah, I'm reinvigorated. This is fun throwing
to AJ Brown or Deebo Samuel.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
You know, may changed, it might have a little bit could,
but they still needed to pay him. They still needed
to pay them.

Speaker 4 (01:24:59):
The reason for his pissiness in nineteen was less about
Nikhil Harry, right as it was about what they had
done to him before that. Right, It's like, I won
another super Bowl and it's still not enough for this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
You can't give me a you know, a relatively long
contract for market money. You're you're not willing to do
that after all that I've proven for you. I get it,
I get it. You know. I also get you know,
the age and all that stuff. But like, this guy's different,
he's different. Could we play a little game what happens? Happened?

Speaker 6 (01:25:33):
We still have not moved on from them.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
Would you like to play a game?

Speaker 8 (01:25:37):
What?

Speaker 11 (01:25:37):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
What do you like?

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Let's just play it out like what happens twenty twenty
or twenty sorry whatever. February twenty twenty, they move on
from the coaching staff. They say, we're going to keep
Tom Brady. We're putting just everything into Tom Brady. We're
going to bring in a new from.

Speaker 4 (01:25:50):
Their coaching staff.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
Like, let's just they chose Tom. I didn't see that
coming in twenty you know, after twenty.

Speaker 6 (01:25:55):
I feel like Josh McDaniels would have been the coach.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
Okay, sure, I mean that's where're playing, that's's what we're playing.
But you know this, well, how does that play out?
Brady's got three more years? You know, do they get
back to the super Bowl?

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
You think? Or do they you know, Brady anything's possible. No,
I'm serious, Yeah, No, I like it is. You know,
it's just an interesting sliding doors re energized Brady like
they did.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
You did this for me the twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Who's Honor, Who's your on her, your family's honor? Andy
brought that up yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Yeah, I don't know, it's like a sliding doors kind
of thing of what they would have done with three
more seasons. I mean, even after that twenty nineteen team.
It's just I mean, we all know what the twenty
twenty team felt. Look like, you know, like, was there
any way that they could have somehow made it work
a little bit?

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
You know, it was hard. It would have been really hard.
You had two very I don't know, I want to
say stubborn, but set in their ways, get people, and
Brady and Bill you know they you know, and it
just wasn't gonna work.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
To mere Bird wouldn't have moved in Brady's need.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:26:56):
Yeah, it's hard to imagine that's getting on what we
saw personnel wise in nineteen. It's hard to imagine that
team getting to the super Bowl in twenty with Brady. Now,
the other thing you can look at what actually did happen.
You know, twenty we had to reset everything, you know
we were, so would that have been a reset year?

(01:27:16):
Even more exacerbated by the fact that you had to
resign Brady and give him twenty five million, which reportedly
was what he was looking for. And so no, I
don't think they would have but I agree with it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
Just twenty five million, that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
Oh God, Neil and New Brunswick. I caught a little
of the playbook with guest hosts Sean from Vancouver and
Todd from Todd from North Carolina. Sean I thought did great.
He was honest, not afraid to give his opinion, even
had some jokes. Todd was Todd the Eric of callers.
Oh wow, we liked the caller on Caller Crome. We
do to that way, we don't have to do it.

(01:27:53):
I was quite surprised by Fred on Tuesday defending Joe
Judge so much. Can't we just say thank you to
him like we were instructed by Fred on Matt Patricia
and move on the giants? Did you a huge favor
taking this guy from you and you bring him back?
Why we talk about Bill trending towards players who would
be suited for the NFL game twenty years ago. Does

(01:28:15):
he have the same flaw with coaches?

Speaker 6 (01:28:17):
I think for me, the thing with Joe Judge with
Bill is that, like you said yesterday, Joe Judge knows
football like Jojudg is a good football coach in the
respect of he understands x's and o's, he knows techniques
like he knows the game, and he's experienced in that regard.
I think the one disconnect that I think we all

(01:28:39):
see with Joe Judge that maybe they don't agree with
or just don't think is true or whatever, is that
he like the people person like he's not. It's a
personality thing, it's a relationships thing. No one's denying that
he knows that Joe Judge is an experienced good football
He's been coaching football at the NFL level for fifteen years.

(01:29:01):
Like no one's saying that that's not the case. I
just you wonder about him. And yesterday I admit like
hearing him barking out orders and stuff like that, again,
I was like like, I don't know, Like that's just
not it's just not really. You look at how the
other other coaches do it, even just on this team.

(01:29:21):
You just don't hear that type of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
I don't know. Special teams has always been that way.
You know, they get their moment, you know, okay, seventh
and seven then special you know, and they have to
make no they honestly, they have to make the most.

Speaker 6 (01:29:34):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
They have to make the most out of that time.
And it's always like one guy barking and I will I.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
Will say this for Fred that's a fresh point, brilliant
for special teams just by definition, it's more spread out,
so you do kind of have to have a little
bit of a louder voice. But I also think whatever's
talking about is true. It's like there's a difference between
like Brad Seal you are, you know, you need to
know who to block, Like you could hear his voice

(01:29:59):
ringing through the stadium right with Joe Jadgson just always seems.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
Like he's screaming at somebody and like it's just it's
about everything. Like it's one thing to just say like hey,
you guys said no tomatoes. You know, it's just like
he's yelling at everybody all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
Uh spiing fres Now for each of you, what one
feature of Max game is most important to improve if
he's to notably exceed his rookie season performance. What one
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
Performance under pressure.

Speaker 6 (01:30:29):
Yeah, i'd agree with that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:31):
I would too, pocket presence, slash games.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
On the line, I would say with that comes to recognition,
you know, like under pressure, are you recognizing what's happening?

Speaker 6 (01:30:45):
So you're talking about like clutch yeah, but but just that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
But also it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
Doesn't even have to be like game running drives. It
just has to be like, look, the tenor of the
game right now is that your team needs to drive.

Speaker 4 (01:30:54):
Like the four quarters of you know, like Minnesota last year,
great and then nothing in the fourth quarter, you know,
four quarters of high level.

Speaker 6 (01:31:02):
I just wanted to take because I also think that
performance literally under pressure is something that he could be
a lot better at. So I just wanted to clarify
the line.

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
I think like, look, you know, and maybe he's looking
for like arm strength or you know, like those kind
of like technical like you know, physical actutes. I don't
none of it matters, Like its just performers. Like he
throws the ball well enough, he has enough you know,
athletic talent to play in He can in this league.
Mac can play in this league, he throws the ball well,
he can play in this league.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
I'll say that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
If he's given the structure around him, he throws the
ball well enough to get the job done. Now can
he do if it breaks down? I don't think he
has that skills.

Speaker 6 (01:31:39):
I think, like when you look at guys like Kirk
Cousins or Jimmy G or Derek Carr, Like, I think
Mac is in the same physical ballparks as those types
of guys. But you know, those types of guys don't
always have what Deuce is looking for, right, they don't
always have the moxy.

Speaker 4 (01:31:56):
Yeah, I would say, uh, though, I think that's a
pretty good group that you just came up with off
the top of your head. I would say, just player
for player. I would put Jimmy G and Carr athletically
ahead of Cousins and Mac, and I would probably put
Mac fourth on that list in terms of overall skill set. Now,

(01:32:18):
where he makes up for it, hopefully, where Tom will
see it, you know, is with his aptitude and in
his ability to understand what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
And that's the thing. If that's a superpower, let's see
it now under pressure, what's his decision making.

Speaker 4 (01:32:31):
For as inconsistent as some of those guys have been. Now,
I don't think Cousins has been great under the gun.
Now he has some like last second wins under his belt,
but not big game wins under his Maybe the one
against the Patriots is the biggest one, right, Derek Carr
is a guy who has been pretty good in tough
spots at times, just not consistently enough. Jimmy, it's all

(01:32:55):
Health's a that's a different I.

Speaker 6 (01:32:57):
Just wonder like, and this is it could be a
question for the panel, like if Mac, let's say Mac
ends up being Kirk Cousins, Like that's would you rather
ten years of Kirk Cousins or would you rather keep
trying for the Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen?

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
Right, Well, the thing is, you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:33:15):
Know what I think if Kirk Cousins had Bill Belichick
as his head coach, would he have had I won
a championship right now?

Speaker 6 (01:33:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
Then I then I want to keep I.

Speaker 6 (01:33:25):
Don't know if you would have won a championship, And
I don't know if you would have would win a championship,
But I think Bill with Kirk Cousins is a playoff
team every year like I think you're I mean, the
Vikings are a playoff team almost every year with Kirk Cousins,
So I just I.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
Want championships, you know. I want a quarterback who's good
enough to you know, he doesn't have this guy I
want to. I want a quarterback who can win US
a championship.

Speaker 6 (01:33:49):
And I am assuming the panel thinks that Kirk Cousins
can is not capable.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
No, I'm not disagreeing.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
I'm just saying.

Speaker 4 (01:33:54):
I'm saying I'm saying if he's I think I'm probably
lower on Cousins than the panel.

Speaker 2 (01:33:58):
If Bill can win a championship of them, that I'm
okay with Kirk Cousins.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
But you're saying, no, I've got Recncy bias, like I
always do. But Kirk Cousins played out of his mind
against Patriots last year, so I have I just watch
against other teams.

Speaker 6 (01:34:10):
That's the thing, though, is like, and the reason why
I bring up Kirk Cousins. I think that there giants
in the playoffs at home. He's a pretty volatile quarterback.
I think you either really think he stinks or you
think that he's better than people think. And I don't
necessarily know if I think he's better than people think.
But I think he's good enough. And I just look
at Mac and I think that he can be.

Speaker 4 (01:34:29):
You're probably right about Cousins. He's probably good enough.

Speaker 6 (01:34:32):
Yeah, especially when you're thrown to Justin Jefferson, Like, you know,
I'm okay, but.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
He's probably just my stubbornness aside. He's probably good enough.
I just think he's one of those guys that what
do I need him for? If I have everything else,
I can put anybody in there, right, and I would
say anybody's good enough, you know, short of like Zach Wilson.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
I mean, he's the poster child for this kind of quarterback.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
You know, just like he used to be.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
Andy Dalton, the minimum acceptable guy that you can talk
yourself into that maybe we have a chance to know.

Speaker 4 (01:35:01):
Andy Dalton's another great one. You know, those Bengals teams
that he inherited his first three four years excellent, excellent teams,
and everybody was like, he's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
I fell into it. Yeah, So I'm not even making
fun of anybody. I'm making fun of myself. I thought
he was part of that.

Speaker 4 (01:35:20):
Now the rest of his career has told us he
was along for the ride, like based on what he's
done since he's not had that kind of ability around him.
And I think justin Jefferson's a probably.

Speaker 6 (01:35:31):
Because I tend to lean, you know, into the mactruther
side of things, like I tend to be on Max
side on a lot of things. But even I can
recognize two years in that is Mac ever going to
be a generational, like elite MVP caliber quarterback Like I
don't think so that's going to be the reason you
win right now. You can put it that way too,

(01:35:54):
and you might say, that's okay, I don't need my
quarterback to be the version I win.

Speaker 3 (01:35:57):
That's I think Bill would probably subscribe. I can't talk
myself into that, But what I could talk myself into
is that maybe it just all clicks and they get
the right offensive coordinator. They might not have a number one,
but they've got enough variation in their receivers and backs
and weapons and all that stuff to make it and
you know that it all clicks at once and there's
nobody who's the superstar. But you know, I still think

(01:36:18):
that that is possible. But I honestly I question it
now in this league with you know, guys like Mahomes,
and you know, just the talent level at the quarterback
position and how quickly teams can score. And I mean,
it's just it feels like if you don't honestly go
into the playoffs feeling like our team could maybe score
it any minute if they had to, like they were
a play away to score, Like I don't. It's hard

(01:36:38):
to win in the league this year.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
If you don't feel that way, you don't have that.
David writes in it's the off season, so it's the
only time to ask these questions. Fred is a laptop
in front of him, and it looks like Evan has
a mouse and keyboard in front of him. Whatnot? Right now,
I was just wondering what those were for. I'm reading
your email, That's what it's for. Another note, maybe you
should give Mike a keyboard so we can stop unscrewing
that pen.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
Dude, I'm so conscious of like I fiddle, I fiddle
with this, yeah, fiddle with this.

Speaker 6 (01:37:04):
I guess my phone was a mouse. Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
Oh yeah, I kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:37:10):
I could see with the Death Star, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
Yeah, I try.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
I like to have my just a roster so I
have like a visual queue of guys.

Speaker 6 (01:37:17):
You're a print out guy.

Speaker 3 (01:37:19):
Just that's all I need in front of me in
case I'm trying to think of like somebody's like what player,
and then I can.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
I don't like to have stuff to get to big.
I'm with Mike.

Speaker 4 (01:37:25):
I'm big on having the stuff in front of me
when there are specific things that I feel will come
up on printouts, and I have that, and I have
a read Sometimes this Grandpa needs Grandpa needs the readers. Yeah,
so sometimes you know this. I knew today we were
just gonna be talking about what we saw yesterday, so
I didn't know it's all up in this that's in

(01:37:46):
the steel trap. And I asked me about it in
three weeks forget about it gone. You asked me about
what happened in two thousand t A.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
I mean that was great.

Speaker 4 (01:37:53):
You shot Baker, the touchdown maker. I'll tell you about him.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
The phones are stacked up eight five five pats five hundred.
Let's go to the UK where Claire is on the phone.
What's up Claire? Everyone? He girl, Fred friend, have you
read out my emails because I've missed a.

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
Little bit in between no emails?

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
Is that plural?

Speaker 14 (01:38:16):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
I haven't read you just one, just one.

Speaker 10 (01:38:20):
Basically, I need to agree with Deuce on Bearringer.

Speaker 22 (01:38:22):
I think he's like, Yeah, he's my guy.

Speaker 8 (01:38:24):
He's kind of sneaky sexy.

Speaker 15 (01:38:26):
I think he's the thing this year.

Speaker 10 (01:38:27):
I'm really excited about that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
You like guys and glasses.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):
Well, Claire, you know I do have my readers back
in my office.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
Cheky monkey.

Speaker 8 (01:38:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:38:45):
Well, when Vixy was on my show, we talked about it,
and I hinted that I think might be barrangary, sneaky sexy,
and he may be an adult movie star.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
Oh. I took a turn.

Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
And Jimmy psa Bearing Bearinger?

Speaker 6 (01:39:03):
What's Bearringer? That's the thing, right, It's like a company
or something.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
I knew a kid, but yeah, just I'm just telling
for everybody.

Speaker 8 (01:39:10):
My question was, there's no time coach on staff on
like patrios dot com website, and I just wondered if
you'd heard anything about it.

Speaker 6 (01:39:17):
Will the beings will lying lying then? Today?

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
Yeah? Yeah, he's a young dude too. He's like I
seemed like he's fresh off college or something. But yeah, no,
he's there. Well, Joe Judge will be the officially.

Speaker 10 (01:39:34):
On the website.

Speaker 15 (01:39:34):
I mean, he's definitely the tiant coach.

Speaker 5 (01:39:36):
That he's out there.

Speaker 6 (01:39:38):
Yeah, well, they said, Bill said yesterday, you know, very
nice of him to let us know that they'll get
around to announce coaching staff soon, so maybe one of us.

Speaker 3 (01:39:47):
In all serious he did add something along the lines
that we're.

Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
Still working through some things, right, which maybe was just
a throwaway line that didn't have any meaning. But I
don't think he has a lot of those.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:40:00):
I think usually when he says something well, no, no,
not about tight ends, just about the titles and the staff.
You just keep your tight end infatuation in check.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Yeah, it drives PR crazy because they need to print
the media guide and they they that's always the last
thing they're waiting for.

Speaker 6 (01:40:20):
I imagine there's one person in PR in particular.

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
Oh yeah, thanks Claire. Good to hear from you. Dan
in Virginia and Michigan.

Speaker 14 (01:40:28):
What's up, Dan, I wanted to say congratulations to Pull
on his boy graduating. I'll go mine's coming up next year,
so I know there's a lot of work that goes
into that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
You can get Dusty though, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (01:40:44):
Of course. It's the most beautiful week, most beautiful week.
Of weather we've had so far this season. But that's
all going to come to a screeching halt evidently on Saturday,
when it's going to be fifty eight, rainy and windy. Yeah,
we have read so when I have one hundred people
coming to my.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
House, still got the pool open them? You have a
graduation party at your house? Yeah, that's just for family,
though not for his friends to oh, boy, ready for that?
And it's just my friend many Ray.

Speaker 4 (01:41:11):
No, I'd be ready for it. On a day like today,
we'd be fine. But what I'm hearing about Saturday, I
have no idea what Beth and I are going to
do in my house is not big enough for the
amount of people that will be there.

Speaker 2 (01:41:22):
Got a heat?

Speaker 4 (01:41:23):
I don't. I don't have your estate.

Speaker 2 (01:41:27):
Okay, I don't have a pool anymore, Paul, you have
a pool? Still hear about Freda Pelooza.

Speaker 4 (01:41:32):
Freda were legendary, good times, good times. Uh, don't hang up.

Speaker 14 (01:41:40):
You were discussing. You're discussing coaching shortcomings before you know,
Patricia Judge and so forth, And it seems a big
part of their vailue to to you know, go anyway
with their other teams and This goes all the way
back to McDaniels and something even Bill let Brown is
that it's the people skills. It's not the football skills.
It really seem to be that these guys just don't

(01:42:01):
do well with people. And does that make sin? That
was even part of Bill's problem back in Cleveland was
that he just didn't didn't go uh, didn't get along
well with people?

Speaker 22 (01:42:11):
Is that?

Speaker 10 (01:42:12):
You know?

Speaker 14 (01:42:13):
Is that something particular to New England that we've got
a lot of guys that just don't play well with others?

Speaker 2 (01:42:19):
Org, Yeah, I mean it's it's tough. Well, when you're
a young coach like McDaniels was when he went to
Denver and you make big changes like he did at
the quarterback position, it's tough. It better work he's doing
it again. Yeah, it better work or you know, you

(01:42:40):
lose some guys, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:42:41):
But I would never characterize Josh as a guy who
is not personable.

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):
No, no, mao.

Speaker 4 (01:42:48):
You know a lot of the coaches and it's like,
I don't think of Bill O'Brien is not being personal.
But you know, but I think Joe Judge has that
reputation being a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
And Patricia, you know famously went to Detroit and with
the sprinting and you know, telling people they don't have
any rings, and he's got rings and all that.

Speaker 4 (01:43:05):
But again that's I think that's an error in leadership,
not necessarily a personality. Like I think that the similar
mistake that a lot of the guys have made is
they've all tried to emulate Bill. They've all tried to
be ruling from above with an iron fist. One problem,
you don't have the rings that validate that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
If Bill, you know, Bill couldn't do it in Cleveland,
you know, and yeah, Bill, and if two thousands.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
I mean, that's a great point.

Speaker 4 (01:43:37):
Like Bill was probably no different personality wise in Cleveland
than he is now. Right, But he's able to succeed
now without being the most personable person that we've seen
because he's one, right, and they they, I mean, you
hear the guys talk about it like he's one of
the best. He's done this, he's done that, and his
track record speaks for itself. Yeah, So this is like

(01:43:59):
a madic respect that's attached to that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
I think Rabel's an interesting person because he's got like,
you know, like he's a ballbuster, but like this person
deering about him, and you know, it's just I think
there's a lot of different ways to do it. They'll
bottom line is like, here's your team, gonna listen to
you and buy into it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:14):
You're in charge of fifty three guys, you know, plus
practice squats, the coaches, and they need to think that
you know what you're talking about, because if they don't
think you know what you're talking about, you just lose
the room, you know. Uh So you have to have
that gravitas. And if you don't have it right away,

(01:44:35):
then you better know what you're talking about and eventually
get results or people just they want to win.

Speaker 3 (01:44:41):
Yeah, you know, well that's what you hear, Like, you know,
young coaches talk about young coaches who are you know,
thrown into a room maybe with guys that are that
are older than you as a coach. And I've heard
some you know, people just saying like they just the
players just want to know that you're putting them in
positions to succeed, that you're helping them be successful.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
By listening to you, I'll get yeah, and we'll win.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
And if they do, they start to earn the trust
and then it builds and.

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
Ye thanks, Dan, appreciate the call. Let's go to Willem
and philam, what's up? William? Nice?

Speaker 12 (01:45:10):
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:45:11):
How you doing good?

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:45:14):
Uh have a question for for Evan or not? Evan? So,
are you familiar with the quarterback from the USC named
Caleb Williams and lost thing's name?

Speaker 22 (01:45:24):
Correct?

Speaker 6 (01:45:25):
You are?

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
Yes? You never heard of him.

Speaker 3 (01:45:29):
As the other day?

Speaker 6 (01:45:32):
What's up?

Speaker 8 (01:45:33):
Just here my take on it, Evan. Don't be sucking
your teeth and row your eyes and you always.

Speaker 11 (01:45:41):
Like that?

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:45:43):
So look, so let's say the pictures, you know, they're
like they go eight and nine again or nine to
eight whatever though, man just can't get us over the hump, right,
And that's just another loss on Bill too. On top
of it, do you do you see a scenario where
Bill just said, you know what, I just makes it forget.
You know, let's just going for the number one drastick

(01:46:06):
and try and trade up and just you know it
might say three first round taste the couple of dude,
I don't want three feat your stulf. I don't know,
but do you see I guess the Bill would do
something like that.

Speaker 6 (01:46:17):
No, I don't see a scenario. Then you guys can
disagree with me where Bill would give up significant draft
capital for one player.

Speaker 4 (01:46:27):
Ever, so we're eight to nine picking around fourteen, that's
hard to get up high enough for that, I would agree.

Speaker 3 (01:46:36):
I think the only way to get him is that
you stink, stink, you lose a couple.

Speaker 4 (01:46:40):
You don't have to stink. You can instead of going
eight to nine, if you you know, even seven six,
get you top ten. Now I'm not closing that door.
I agree with Evan. Fifteen to one, that's a lot. Well,
but if it's like eight to one, maybe that might
be something a little bit more palatable.

Speaker 6 (01:47:00):
The Panthers what they were right around that, like eight
or nine to one. And as for Bryce Young, who
is nowhere near the prospect that Caleb Williams is. So
to get that guy, I like, I don't know, I'm
going to have to give up you know, a real.

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
Like the whole farm.

Speaker 8 (01:47:20):
Yeah, so what so what do you do? I mean
I heard you talking about Kirk Cousins, and I'm like,
he's been hearing the NFL pocket. No, he's not dancing. No,
so you want to you want something better than that
or even Kirk cousins. But my question to you, I mean,
you know, you the football analyst and everything, so you know,
I'm just trying to get your what did we do?
We went eight and nine?

Speaker 1 (01:47:42):
Again?

Speaker 8 (01:47:43):
Bill can't do whatever again, So that's a strike on Bill.
You know, mister krafft be pissed off because you didn't
make the playoffs?

Speaker 11 (01:47:50):
What do we do?

Speaker 6 (01:47:51):
I think you know my opinion only, and then you
guys can all again disagree. If I were the Patriots
at that point, I'd be going for a veteran quarterback.
I just I don't really have any interest in going
back into the rookie well again in trying to at best,
what you're trying to do is what you're trying to
do now, which is like win with all the other

(01:48:12):
parts and all and you know, everybody pulling together and
not just the quarterback. Like a trade for another or
a move for a veteran. There's always one veteran that
moves in the offseason. This year was Aaron Rodgers, last
year was Russell Wilson. Like whoever that ends up being that,
that's what I especially if Bill's gonna still be the coach,
I don't really have much interest in Bill trying to

(01:48:35):
groom another young quarterback because the time he doesn't have
the time. And he also just I don't know if
he connects with this generation well enough. Because as much
as you can call Mac Jones a baby, and you
can call Mac Jones, you know, his pouting and his
tantrums like guess what, like, that's a lot of athletes

(01:48:55):
are gonna be wired.

Speaker 3 (01:48:56):
That way nowadays.

Speaker 6 (01:48:57):
And if they get Caleb Williams here, they get Drake
may here or one of these kJ Jefferson and it
doesn't go well right out of the gate and there's
some friction there. It's going to be the same story.
So I just have really no interest in going back
in the draft for a quarterback. I would at that
point try to maximize the last two or three years
that Bill has with a proven veteran guy.

Speaker 8 (01:49:20):
That's just me though, Just one more thing and then
I'm out Theel Wallie and whatnot. I'll just try to
put this all in one though. Well, in terms of
fight for Matt Jones, though, I get it, you know,
the punt and all that deal. But the man wants
to win. I think that's that's his frustration. He really
wants to win and you see how things is and
he could see it from his perspective as a quarter there.

(01:49:44):
I know they was gonna say. I ain't saying that
Max should be in a stame page with them, but
I don't know. They just need to come together the
pictures also, they're just too much in the news. Is
always that they've been in like twenty twenty season, and
it was always something the page is this the I mean,
y'all was telling us everything from all up in there
and then we are again starting off on a bad

(01:50:07):
foot with over Joe Judge. He can't even be nowhere
to need to pa. But I'm gonna leave that alone though.
But but I'll leave it at jfros. But you know,
I just want to know what would we do with
that's all them? But have a good one next weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
Okay, it's tough question.

Speaker 3 (01:50:23):
I mean in some ways, it's just I mean, it's
like we've always talked about it's hardest to be in
the middle, Like it's the decisions are easy when you're
a three four win team or or a three or
four wins lost team.

Speaker 2 (01:50:32):
If it was easy, every team would do and keep.

Speaker 3 (01:50:34):
Blasting out eight win season after eight win season, you
know what, eventually you're gonna have to say, Look, we
might have to bite the bullet and take a half
step back to you know, get past this mediocrity that
we've had a few I.

Speaker 2 (01:50:43):
Think William's point is it's that or you bite the
bullet and sell the farm to get that guy.

Speaker 3 (01:50:48):
Yeah, you know, no, I don't. I mean, if you
get to that point, I wouldn't. I mean, I wouldn't
be against it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:54):
Alan in Texas, I've been listening to the show for
eight or more years, and I really enjoyed the football
information as well as the entertain When Andy left, I
was a bit concerned and who would provide the entertainment?
He seemed to be able to start an argument over
any topic. That being said, the new lineup is fantastic.
Deuce has the fanboy energy that is contagious, and Evans's
knowledge is very informative. Man Fred, your humor at times

(01:51:16):
is subtle, genius. Paul has the knowledge and the Italian
attitude that I grew up with. My question is this,
how much of being a coordinator is an art form?
That's kind of a segue. How much is knowledge of
the game, which do you think is more important? Is
the art form harder to teach? And is that what
separates a good coordinator from a mediocre one. Well, Andy

(01:51:39):
always said that calling plays is more of an art sure,
while a lot of the other stuff is science, you know.
And that's the thing, like we've always I've always talked
about coordinator. Different teams have different roles for that title,
Like there's the architect of the offense, there's the guy
who comes in with the game plan, and then the
guy who calls the plays. And sometimes it's all the same,

(01:52:02):
and that's a true coordinator, you know, somebody who does
all three things. But as we've seen, that's not always
the case on all teams, Like sometimes the guy calling
the plays isn't necessarily the guy architecting the offense.

Speaker 1 (01:52:16):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:52:16):
And some teams don't even have the architect of the
offense on staff, like us, what do you mean it's
Josh McDaniels didn't design that offense. Bill O'Brien didn't design that.

Speaker 15 (01:52:29):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:52:29):
But I'm just talking about the architect of heaven who
this edition of the offense this year's off Yeah, yeah,
but I'm just talking about, like who's in charge of
the offense this year, like the overall, like, this is
what our offense is going to look like this year.
It's Bill O'Brien. Yes, it's Bill O'Brien.

Speaker 6 (01:52:46):
And that's what I've always like wanted. And Josh was
this through and through like the head coach of the offense,
Like so you're not the head coach of the whole
team like Bill, but Bill O'Brien is the head coach
of the Offense's it's his vision, it's his play sheet,
it's it's his group like that, And that's I think
what when this team has thrived, it's been Charlie Weiss,

(01:53:08):
it's been Josh McDaniels, it's been Bill O'Brien, it's been
when they've had totally agree that guy.

Speaker 4 (01:53:13):
Right, And I think most teams have that. There are
some like Kansas City that Andy Reid who's the head coach,
but he's that guy, he's the head coach of the offense, yea.
But most teams have a guy.

Speaker 2 (01:53:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:53:25):
I do think the question is interesting though, just the
different philosophy kind of on the offensive side of the
ball versus the defensive side.

Speaker 2 (01:53:30):
Of the ball.

Speaker 3 (01:53:31):
Jokes aside, I mean, I would. I would think it
was probably a very interesting interview just to talk to
Matt Patricia about the different mindset of offensively trying to
be creative and trying to you know, put the defense
in a pickle. You can't really be creative in play calling,
Like I think the creativity and defense is probably set
up before the game. But you know, it's almost the
level of anticipation that you have to have on the defense.

Speaker 4 (01:53:53):
That's what I think Bill now still to this day,
I think that's.

Speaker 2 (01:53:56):
Bill seeing what's going on out there, seeing.

Speaker 3 (01:53:59):
Well, adjusting to what's going on.

Speaker 4 (01:54:01):
Many times you see them go the other team goes
right down the field on it, and then all of
a sudden he chunes back to the field for like
the next two minutes. He talks to the defensive players
and they come out and it's like totally right.

Speaker 2 (01:54:12):
But you know, going back to like, you know, young coaches,
if I were to give, you know, advice to any
young coach, I'd say, don't be afraid to hire coordinators
who are smarter than you. You know, if it's your
first time being a head coach, you know, focus on
that and not being the architect of the defense. Higher
really strong coordinators, you know, and eventually maybe you don't

(01:54:36):
need them. Then then you can start you know, while
you have these you know, experienced guys, you're grooming young
guys to eventually take their place. But get people around
you that are have more experience than you do so
that you can focus on being a head coach.

Speaker 6 (01:54:51):
Yeah. I don't know if they had more experience than Bill.
But like some of the staffs that the Patriots have
had in the dynasty run, like are just ridiculous. Look
back at like the twenty fourteen and really twenty sixteen
when Scarman came back. I mean it's crazy. It's like
Brian Dabele was coaching tight ends on that staff. You know,
it's and you go down the whole list. These guys
that are are now coming up to being like co

(01:55:14):
head coaching candidates were like low level assistants on those
staffs like that, those types of staffs, you can tell
why they were so successful. But he loaded.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
But even when Bill came here, you know, he had
Romeo Crenell, Yeah, Charlie Weiss, he had you know, Brad Seely,
I don't know when Seely was here, brat the Audio Starve. Yeah,
these are all guys that a lot of experience, and
so by having those guys, the young guys could learn
under that.

Speaker 4 (01:55:40):
To Evan's point, Josh McDaniels and Brian Dable were coaching assistants. Yeah,
and they lat Patricia was a coaching assistant those guys. Yeah,
that's how they learned.

Speaker 2 (01:55:49):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:55:49):
You're speaking to another point of you know, they've lost
a lot of those guys, and now are these young
guys that have been kind of added over the last
couple of seasons, Evan Rothsteins, like, are those guys going
to develop into those those kind of caliber.

Speaker 4 (01:56:01):
The most recent exodus forced some of the coaching assistant
types into positional roles probably before they were ready for them.
And I think that's been part of I mean, I'm
not saying it's like an underrated part because people talk
about it a lot, but I do think it is
a big part of the struggles. You know, it's not
just Tom Brady left, their frauds, It's not Nothing is

(01:56:23):
ever that simple.

Speaker 3 (01:56:24):
It's an opportunity for like Mayo Covington, you know, those
kind of guys that you know are now really starting
to get noticed around the way.

Speaker 4 (01:56:30):
Do you think Steve Belichick is a much better coach
today than the guy who went in front of the
safeties and said, yeah, I know coaching safety. Like of
course he's grown into that.

Speaker 2 (01:56:41):
Raisin Washington will finish up the show with your call.
What's up? Ray?

Speaker 8 (01:56:46):
So I'm wondering with Evan posted something on his Twitter
earlier that was throwing match at a bomb to Taekwon
and I want to know how far that one.

Speaker 6 (01:56:55):
Above forty yards?

Speaker 3 (01:56:56):
I would say in the air.

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
Yeah, yeah, the play itself was about would have been
a touchdown. Yeah, nobody there. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:57:04):
Badar just retweeted it, by the way and said this
was not against air.

Speaker 2 (01:57:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:57:08):
I know nobody's hating, but I think that he's probably
he's on my back backing us up because he's probably listening.

Speaker 6 (01:57:14):
Yeah, Hey, everybody's hating. It's just a it's a it's
a clip from the spring, all right, we don't we
don't need to. No one's saying they're winning the Super
Bowl because Mac completed to pass the Taekwon thoron on
May thirty. First, thank you, thanks for the call, all right, Ray,
thanks for the call.

Speaker 2 (01:57:29):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 19 (01:57:30):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:57:31):
This guy that's gonna be it for this edition of
Patriots Unfiltered. Stay tuned for Catch twenty two with Evan
and Alex more overreaction to the OTA. We'll be back
next week. We'll see you next Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (01:57:47):
Thank you for downloading this podcast.

Speaker 9 (01:57:49):
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Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
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