October 25, 2025 • 34 mins
I’ve noticed that many smart, creative people avoid coaching because they think it’s only for people who are lost, unsure or corporate CEO's. In this episode of Pattern Shift, I challenge that idea. I share my own stories as both a coach and a client, from working with ADHD and lifestyle coaches on my weightloss journey to helping my clients rediscover joy in their creative work.
With humor, honesty, and a healthy dose of Dutch pragmatism, I explain how coaching differs from consulting, mentoring, and therapy—and why it’s such a powerful way to find clarity when you’re ready to grow. I also talk about how our cultural tendency to “doe maar normaal” can make asking for support feel uncomfortable, even when it’s exactly what we need.
If you’ve ever thought coaching wasn’t “for you,” this episode might shift your perspective.
You know me as a guide, mentor and teacher, but I've also set off on a new adventure, coaching. Coaching gets a bad rep sometimes, but when it's done right, it can be really transformational. As part of my coaching education, I'll soon need to do real coaching sessions. And it could be a really great opportunity for you to experience it at no or low cost. If you've ever been curious about working with me in this way, now's the time. Just send me an email: info@ja-wol.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hey and welcome to Patent Shift.
I'm Saskia, creative life andbusiness coach for fiber-loving
makers, teachers, designers,shop owners, and all-around
creative.
I help you wayfind your nextstep, organize your business to
fit your life, and launch ideaswith joyful action.
Together we'll untangle thetricky bits like branding,
(00:22):
marketing and sales, and buildsomething sustainable, skillful,
and truly you.
Hello and welcome to Pat andShift.
It's the first edition that isactually also on YouTube.
So it's audio and video.
And if you want to see thissupport pickle that is sitting
(00:43):
on my microphone, then hop onover to YouTube and have a
little bit of a view and see ifyou would like to follow the
podcast over on YouTube or dojust the audio.
I just wanted to make itaccessible for more people and
find more people, honestly.
That's why I'm doing this.
(01:03):
I have just recorded almost thewhole podcast and it didn't
load.
So that is something that canhappen.
And it has to do with mycomputer and how old it is and
me just trying to use good toolsthat are good enough to do all
(01:30):
of this.
I have a beautiful laptop overthere, but this is the best
setup for my podcast, and I amso grateful that I am not a
starter, that I'm not just doingthis.
So that I already know that thisshit happens, and that I know
(01:51):
that it doesn't help me one bitto get frustrated or flustered
or overwhelmed.
All I need to do is take abreath, take a sip of water, and
start again.
It's the best way out isthrough, which has a completely
different meaning since Istarted watching Waywards.
(02:12):
If you've seen that series, it'sabout this kind of school that
helps kids in trouble becomebetter versions of themselves.
And I think it's a little bit ofa critique on the self-help and
the guru type of people that areout there.
And that's actually what Iwanted to talk about today.
(02:37):
I'm going to talk about coachingand the beliefs that are
currently there around whatcoaching is and what coaches do.
And it's very interestingbecause I just came up with this
thought about wayward.
And is it wayward?
Yeah, I think it's wayward.
And I'm doing wayfinding, whichis hilarious, but also kind of
(03:00):
great that there's thiscomparison and that I came up
with it after I did record theepisode that kind of just I
don't know, it went into thevoid.
I don't know where it is, it'sgone.
So there's always a good thingabout starting anew, and this
was this was that.
So let's get into it.
(03:20):
So I've noticed this thing thathappens when I tell people that
I am now a coach.
I call myself a creative lifeand business coach because
that's what I do, and you cankind of feel people pausing and
(03:41):
oh, interesting.
And I tend to want to explainmyself and then over-explain
myself, and I'm not helpinganyone with that.
So I thought it was time to do apodcast episode about what
coaching is, what it can be, andwhat it is not, and for whom it
(04:02):
is, and all of that.
So let's go and start there.
So, what it is not, it is not afallback career.
It is a framework for growth foranyone at any stage, and we're
gonna unpack that.
(04:24):
So there's this myth wherepeople think coaching is for
people who either have it allfigured out or have totally lost
it.
And it's not about thoseextremes.
It's actually most of coachingis somewhere in the middle, but
it could be at those extremes.
It can you can definitely getcoaching when you are floating
(04:46):
along and everything is great.
You can still get coaching andit can still really support and
help you.
And when you're in a deepcrisis, you can still get
coaching and it can really stillsupport you.
Most people get coached in themiddle somewhere.
So the reality of the coachingis those middle spaces where
(05:06):
you're navigating change orgrowth or uncertainty.
And I was just want to give youan example of one of my clients,
with permission, of course, andof myself.
Carmen, who's one of my clients,said the following about
(05:28):
coaching.
My most valuable takeaway fromour sessions has been that I can
build my business however I wantto.
Even if I have built updifferent platforms, I can let
them go if they don't serve meanymore.
So this is Carmen, and she'salready made a name for herself
in the creative field.
(05:50):
She is she was feelingoverwhelmed with all the
different platforms doing hermarketing, and it was just a
lot.
She had turned into a contentcreator versus a designer and
was spending most of her timecreating content and kind of in
(06:12):
the midst of all of that, I wantto say forgot, but she didn't
forget, didn't have enough timeor didn't spend enough time
creating and finding that joyfulaction that really was the core
of why she started doing this.
So coaching helped her figurethat out and bring back the
(06:34):
balance.
And however logical that mightseem from a distance, you
probably recognize thatsometimes you're so in the
middle of something that youreally, from your perspective,
you just don't see how you howyou can get out of it, or you're
just going through the samecycle over and over again.
(06:55):
You try something out, somethingdoesn't work, then you go full
into it, and then you trysomething new out, it doesn't
work, then you go full intoanother thing, and you know, the
cycles that happen, and it canbe critical at some points of
some people's journeys.
(07:16):
So sometimes it's critical tokind of cut through it, pause,
bring some space and somereflection so that you can
together with your coach figureout where to go next.
I have been coached by KimWitten and also by and also by
(07:37):
Doga, who is an ADHD coach.
I have been coached by Vicky,who is a lifestyle coach, so
then not a life coach, but alifestyle coach.
That has something to do with myweight loss.
So I've had coaching for mybusiness, for my
(07:58):
neurodivergency, and for weightloss.
And these people have beenreally important in going
through change, navigatingchange.
They have not been therapists,which I will get into later, the
difference between all of that.
(08:41):
It was at first, I just Istarted building.
I'm such a starter.
I just, I just go and I makethings.
And as I do things, I tweak andI think, hmm, this isn't really
working.
I think people need this.
Let me ask them, do theyactually need this?
Yes, they do.
Wait, why aren't they buying it?
(09:03):
Let me ask them.
And so that's kind of how I dothings.
I tweak as I go, and that worksfor me a lot of the time, but I
also had bigger questions andwas struggling with some of it.
And that's where Kim Whitten,who was helping me with my
(09:25):
business at the time, that'swhere she came in and provided
some space for me to think.
She also had really cool toolsthat helped me clarify my
thoughts.
Basically, sh like to stay intheme and use a meth metaphor
(09:45):
that lots of you willunderstand.
I was a skein and she was theball winder and turned the skein
into a ball that I can actuallyuse to knit something with.
So if you let's stick with theskein metaphor, I'm feeling this
(10:05):
is going places.
This can really go somewhere.
Because I wasn't a knottedtangled mess.
I was a skein.
I had the thoughts and theideas, and it was all it was
there, but it needed to beturned into something that was
more aligned, more practical,and more ready for the next
(10:28):
step, aka knitting.
So yeah, that was that.
And then of course I have mylifestyle coach, and she just
basically working with me, andand she doesn't really know it,
but she's also in a way an ADHDcoach because my weight loss is
(10:50):
connected to my ADHD in so manyways.
It is, I'm just figuring all ofit out, and she's doing that
with me.
So we're working together to seewhat is actually helping and
what's not helping.
And what's a practical exampleis that I have a hard time
(11:10):
eating in the morning, but Ihave to eat something.
So, what is something I can eatwhen I'm feeling really tired,
not able to process much?
Then it's just a cracker withcheese and it's okay.
And then when I feel moreenergetic, I can do a more
elaborate, I don't know, recipefor I don't know, oats with
(11:32):
something or eggs.
I can't eat eggs early in themorning.
Anyway, I should be eating a lotof protein and I'm having a hard
time because I don't like theprotein products and I cannot
eat six eggs every time.
So she's helping me figure outwhat works for me.
That's that.
And then we have, of course, Iforgot about Dan, who is my
(11:57):
personal trainerslashphysiotherapist, who is actually
coaching me through movementthat is aligned with losing
weight and building muscle, andis also being super, super
supportive in that part of mylife.
And who else was there?
(12:18):
Oh my god, I have a whole team.
Well, not all at the same time,but it-I mean, everybody needs
support, and that's the thing.
Coaches are great to give yousupport in the moments that you
need it.
Okay, I forgot about one.
Oh, Doga.
She was actually where I amright now.
She was training to become anADHD coach, and she needed
(12:42):
people to practice with, and Iworked with her, and that was
amazingly helpful.
And she was actually also at thesame time modeling what it is
like to be coaching while you'restill learning, which is what
I'm doing right now, and thatwas really helpful for me to
have the confidence to do thatbecause I can already help
(13:04):
people in so many ways, as youheard with the example I just
gave of Carmen.
And yeah, so that's someanecdotes around coaching and
how it can help.
When I started this WayfinderLife Coach training, I'm
training with Marta Beck, who isamazingly brilliant, clever, and
(13:28):
hilariously funny.
I was just reading, wait, let mego back and check the title of
the book.
Finding your way in a Wild NewWorld.
Yes, that's it.
I was just laughing out loud.
I hardly do that when I readbooks.
And this is a book that is aboutpsychology and self-improvement,
(13:48):
all those kinds of things.
And it was really, really funny.
And that is, I think that is soimportant that you could you can
be yourself when you do thiskind of work.
Don't become one of those, yeah,like the marketing bros.
And and with the example of thethe guru from Waywards.
(14:10):
That is, if you're human, ifyou're real, if you are
connecting to actual things inactual life with actual people,
then we can move away from allthe crazy woo and a little woo.
I I'm all for a little woo, butI'm also very Dutch and very
practical, and we'll get intothe Dutch thing next.
(14:31):
So when I started with thisWayfinder life coach training, I
thought I already knew a lotbecause I had been working with
other coaches and I already hada lot of clarity, but a lot of
extra space opened up forreflection because I was
learning about the background ofit, about the tools.
(14:51):
There was a lot of awareness andI got a lot of permission to
change my mind about things alsobecause I was practicing with
other students, I'm still ampracticing with other student
coaches.
And what was really fascinatingis that if I'm practicing with
other student coaches, whathappens is I bring a coachable
(15:13):
problem to the table, which isnot too complicated, so that we
can practice techniques in alittle bit more of a gentle way.
But I started to see patternswith myself from the different
sessions that I had, I sawpatterns that have been
immensely helpful in my owngrowth as a person with those
(15:37):
people that are still training.
And the beauty of it is that youdon't even really need to know a
lot of tools, but just beingthere and listening and asking
some really good questions,that's already part of the huge
(16:00):
part of the magic.
So yeah, amazing.
I love it.
I'm not gonna be shy to say I'ma coach anymore.
I do think this episode isnecessary for some information
about what it is.
I definitely think it'snecessary in the Netherlands,
because here's the next thing.
I'm gonna give you some culturalcontext because I think the
(16:25):
Dutch perspective on coaching isinteresting.
And knowing that you areprobably either Dutch or
American, that's my widestaudience.
And if you're from somewhereelse, let me know.
I'd love to know where you'rewhere you're at.
Just saying that the Dutchperspective is interesting.
It is still relatively younghere, though it is everywhere at
(16:48):
the moment.
It seems like everyone and theirsister, what's the saying?
Everyone and their dog arebecoming a coach.
And that is really a good thing,but people don't think that's a
good thing.
So the Dutch culture oftenvalues practicality and
self-sufficiency.
(17:08):
Do my normal, don't do yourochre genuin.
That's what we say.
Do act normal, that's crazyenough.
That's that's sufficient, and itcan really make us feel like
seeking support feelsunnecessary or indulgent, like
it's not necessary.
You can figure it out byyourself, like don't spend money
on that kind of thing.
(17:30):
But I think it's reallyimportant that we reframe
coaching as a collaborativethinking partnership, which
makes a whole lot more sense.
But that's a little bit, that'sthree words instead of one.
But think about it collaborativethinking partnership makes so
much sense.
In a way, your friend, yourmother, your neighbor could be
(17:53):
that for you, but also no,because they're not neutral,
they have little bit of littlehooks inside.
That sounds weird.
They they're not neutral, so itcan be super helpful to have a
good friend listen to you, butit's even more helpful if they
are neutral and they let youthink and process your thoughts
(18:16):
and turn that skein into a verynice and tidy ball.
So Dutch people are not reallytaught to seek guidance until
something is broken.
But coaching is not aboutfixing, it's about discovering.
And that is a mindset shift or apatent shift, if you will, that
(18:37):
we really need in this creativepurpose-driven work.
Now, let me tell you about whatcoaching really is.
We're talking about coaching,consulting, therapy, mentorship,
and teaching.
Let me explain all those terms.
So, consultants have expertisein a particular industry or
(19:00):
within a particular field, andthey can give specific advice or
assist with strategy.
I do this work as well.
I help people to find a strategythat works for them, find the
tools that work for them, adviseon it.
They will explain what theirsituation is, and I will say,
(19:21):
listen, this is gonna help you.
This is gonna be really thelogical thing to use in this
moment or the logical strategyfor you.
I do that.
Consulting is almost theopposite of coaching.
I tell you what a good idea is,and though that's a natural
state for me, I love that.
(19:41):
Coaching is more and morefeeling like this is the missing
link in all of it.
So going on to mentoring,mentors are responsible for
understanding training,education, certification, career
goals of their mentees.
A mentor's role includesproviding feedback, structure,
(20:04):
and exercises for skilldevelopment and often involves a
sharing of lived experience withsomeone who is newer to a
particular field or profession.
I had to read this offsomething.
I cannot remember that.
So I do mentoring as well.
In our business circlemembership, what I do is I offer
(20:24):
exercises, and the thing that Ireally love myself is making
worksheets where people canfigure out things for them.
I can share my own experienceand what helped for me, but also
all the businesses I'veencountered in my almost two
decades of working in thisfield.
(20:44):
So my expertise is my livedexperience and sharing that.
That's what I do in kind of ahybrid form in the business
circle.
And then there's teaching.
I have my course, my program,and I'm basically just teaching
a step-by-step process of goingfrom what is what are your needs
(21:09):
and your values, and justbuilding that business around
what you need as a person, thenorganizing the business, and
then everything that has to dowith launching.
So that's the marketing and allthe icky things, but then
translate it into a languagethat's not so icky.
That is all teaching.
That is just saying this is howit's done in the way that I do
(21:34):
it.
So it's kind of meant it likeeverything kind of hits each
other and overlaps in differentways.
So it's kind of also mentoring,but not really because it's
separated from a person.
So I'm just offering you thisinformation.
Now, therapy has the mostrecognizable overlap.
And professionals in thesefields, in each field, often use
(21:58):
tools and concepts from acrossthe aisle.
So, for example, within theWayfinder Life Coach training,
we'll work with the fourcategories of human experience,
and that is derived fromconcepts originally developed by
Aaron Beck in cognitivebehavioral therapy.
(22:19):
And we also use ACT tools,acceptance and commitment
therapy, and we work with dreamanalysis and the techniques that
are developed by Carl Jung.
So that said, it's important tobe able to distinguish therapy
from coaching, and there'sseveral ways to do that.
And I think the easiest way tolook at it is restoring versus
(22:42):
enhancing function.
So a coach is to a therapist asa personal trainer is to a
physician.
Medical doctors and therapistsare often trying to restore
function to help an unwellperson become well.
A personal trainer or a coach,on the other hand, is there to
enhance or optimize functioning.
(23:02):
So in my literal example, is I'mworking with my physio to make
the best of the use of my footthat has a little bit of, let's
not get into detail about myfoot, but I have something
that's not really working in theway it could be, and so we're
(23:24):
making the best of it so that Ican exercise and do my walks and
hikes in a pain-free way.
All right, now what's alsoimportant is partnering with the
client.
As a coach, you work togetherwith the client, and of course,
therapists do that as well, butthe information comes more from
(23:48):
the therapist to the client.
Whereas in coaching, it kind ofrefers to the way that the
client wants to, what the clientwants to accomplish in the
overall coaching engagement.
The source of coaching goals anddirections is always the client.
And then the third part to focuson is focusing on the present
(24:12):
and future.
Coaching is present and futurefocused.
It doesn't mean that yourclients, coaching clients, don't
have past or that they don'tcome into the conversation.
They do, and there's lots ofsafe and brave space for that.
There is definitely cryinginvolved.
(24:34):
I mean, definitely there is youlook back, but we're focused
forwards in terms of finding away.
And in therapy, there's morefocus to the past and what has
happened and to heal that.
So that's a difference there.
So now let's talk about myapproach because you want to
(24:59):
work with somebody that isclicking, that feels like it's
your person.
And of course, you can work withlots of different people, but
it's nice if you have a littlebit of extra with the person
that you work with.
So the people that I work withare often the best way to
(25:20):
describe it is multi-passionate.
I work with all kinds of peoplethat are everyone's creative,
but have creativity as a core ofwho they are and what they do,
but also people that want tomake a change in the world, make
a change in their lives, arefocused on making things better
(25:42):
for themselves, but also for theworld around them.
They love to create things thatare meaningful and want to do it
in a way that feels good and notforced.
So we're not about the hustlementality.
We're moving away from the crazymarketing bros and the you
(26:03):
should this, you should have somany followers, and this is what
you do now on YouTube or onInstagram or on TikTok.
And um, although I'm now here onYouTube, it's all about making
informed decisions and makingconscious decisions, and that's
what coaching can help you with.
But so what we do with coachingis that we slow down enough to
(26:28):
notice what's truly working forthem.
We find patterns, we redefinesuccesses and make space for joy
again.
That's an important one.
Lots, and like I said, with theexample with Carmen, we kind of
forget, and there's also anotherclient that I have, but I don't
have their permission, so I willnot name any names, but they
(26:50):
were also saying, wait, I'mactually not spending time on
designing.
And they realized that that wasthat is the core of what they
do, and they build this wholebusiness and this whole frame
around it, but they forgot aboutthe core.
(27:13):
So we, as I said, we make spacefor the joy and what was
originally the reason that youstarted your business.
Or if you want to start abusiness, focus on why you want
to start a business and how doyou envision that in terms of
(27:36):
when the business meets thatpassion and the rest of your
life.
So it's not about becomingsomeone new, it's becoming it's
about coming back to who you'vebeen all along.
All right, so I hope youunderstand what coaching is or
(28:02):
can be, and that there'sdifferent ways to coach as well.
It's different if you're aleadership coach, if you're a
football coach.
The word coach is not aprotected word, and that's why
it was, and it still is soimportant for me to get an
accreditation from a sourcethat's well respected, like
(28:27):
Wayfinder Life Coach trainingwith Martha Beck, but also the
ICF, the coaching, like thebigger organization that is
trying to give coaching a littlebit more structure so that when
you work with a coach, you knowwhat to expect.
So there's a whole there's allkinds of ethics rules that we
(28:50):
are we are learning about and weshould implement.
So that is really important forme.
So I'm focusing on being thatkind of a coach.
I hope you understand now thatcoaching is not a plan B, it is
actually a way forward, and it'sfor anyone who wants to work and
(29:15):
live with more clarity andcourage and creativity.
And if you've been thinkingabout what's next for you, if
you've been coming back to thesame questions or don't even
know what questions to ask toget to your next step, if it's
you whether that's in yourbusiness or your craft or your
(29:36):
life, it's probably acombination of all these things.
As another client I was workingwith realized that they were
focusing on life more thananything else in our sessions
because that needed to be clearfor them before they could start
(29:58):
with the next step.
So if you're ready to pause andreflect and explore that with
me, I'm here and I still havespace for new clients.
You can find all the informationon patentshift.fm, also on
ya-vool.com.
It's actually the same website,just a different way of getting
(30:21):
there.
You don't have to do it alone,and it's not for specific
people, it's for everybody.
And in terms of budget, I stilloffer my low rate because I
haven't finished my educationfrom December onwards.
I will have finished.
So I think this is a greatmoment.
If you're curious, just ifyou're curious, try it out, see
(30:44):
if it's for you, and do it at avery low rate.
So you can join also mynewsletter, The Yavel Journal,
where you find a lot more thanjust coaching.
It's I hope that it embodieswhat I'm trying to offer and
share with you.
(31:04):
That it is a holisticexperience, life and having a
creative business.
And in the Yavel Journal, I showyou all those different aspects
from my life.
It's really about craft, aboutbusiness, about puppies, about
growing flax in short snippetswith pretty pictures.
(31:25):
At least I try to give you somepretty pictures.
So sign up.
You can do that in the shownotes.
And yeah, if you're feeling thatlittle bit of curiosity, the
little bit of the gentle tugpulling and thinking, oh, I need
to shift something.
I need to move in anotherdirection.
I don't know where to go.
Maybe this is your sign.
Maybe just reach out and ask me.
(31:49):
And we can do a free session tostart off with, just for you to
ask any questions that you mighthave after, even after this
episode.
And then we'll take it fromthere.
All right.
I hope you enjoyed this and I'mwishing you a wonderful,
insightful, and aligned.
(32:09):
No, yucky.
I don't know.
Things like journey and alignedand all these words, it's
actually really complicatedbecause I want to move away from
this.
I don't want to have anything todo with the wayward type guru
figure.
I am not anything like that.
(32:31):
I mean that's clear, right?
But what happens is we start touse this kind of vocabulary, and
then it becomes icky, and thenwe start to realize that that's
happening, and then we want touse other words, but it is what
it is, right?
So I shouldn't really overthinkit myself.
(32:51):
Perhaps that is one of thethings that I can get myself
coached on with my practice andjust see what comes up.
How do I use words for things?
How do I even speak?
Luckily, as a coach, you mainlylisten.
Let's hang out again next time.
Bye.
Hey and welcome to Patent Shift.
I'm Saskia, creative life andbusiness coach for fiber-loving
makers, teachers, designers,shop owners, and all-around
creative.
I help you wayfind your nextstep, organize your business to
fit your life, and launch ideaswith joyful action.
Together we'll untangle thetricky bits like branding,
(00:22):
marketing and sales, and buildsomething sustainable, skillful,
and truly you.
Hello and welcome to Pat andShift.
It's the first edition that isactually also on YouTube.
So it's audio and video.
And if you want to see thissupport pickle that is sitting
(00:43):
on my microphone, then hop onover to YouTube and have a
little bit of a view and see ifyou would like to follow the
podcast over on YouTube or dojust the audio.
I just wanted to make itaccessible for more people and
find more people, honestly.
That's why I'm doing this.
(01:03):
I have just recorded almost thewhole podcast and it didn't
load.
So that is something that canhappen.
And it has to do with mycomputer and how old it is and
me just trying to use good toolsthat are good enough to do all
(01:30):
of this.
I have a beautiful laptop overthere, but this is the best
setup for my podcast, and I amso grateful that I am not a
starter, that I'm not just doingthis.
So that I already know that thisshit happens, and that I know
(01:51):
that it doesn't help me one bitto get frustrated or flustered
or overwhelmed.
All I need to do is take abreath, take a sip of water, and
start again.
It's the best way out isthrough, which has a completely
different meaning since Istarted watching Waywards.
(02:12):
If you've seen that series, it'sabout this kind of school that
helps kids in trouble becomebetter versions of themselves.
And I think it's a little bit ofa critique on the self-help and
the guru type of people that areout there.
And that's actually what Iwanted to talk about today.
(02:37):
I'm going to talk about coachingand the beliefs that are
currently there around whatcoaching is and what coaches do.
And it's very interestingbecause I just came up with this
thought about wayward.
And is it wayward?
Yeah, I think it's wayward.
And I'm doing wayfinding, whichis hilarious, but also kind of
(03:00):
great that there's thiscomparison and that I came up
with it after I did record theepisode that kind of just I
don't know, it went into thevoid.
I don't know where it is, it'sgone.
So there's always a good thingabout starting anew, and this
was this was that.
So let's get into it.
(03:20):
So I've noticed this thing thathappens when I tell people that
I am now a coach.
I call myself a creative lifeand business coach because
that's what I do, and you cankind of feel people pausing and
(03:41):
oh, interesting.
And I tend to want to explainmyself and then over-explain
myself, and I'm not helpinganyone with that.
So I thought it was time to do apodcast episode about what
coaching is, what it can be, andwhat it is not, and for whom it
(04:02):
is, and all of that.
So let's go and start there.
So, what it is not, it is not afallback career.
It is a framework for growth foranyone at any stage, and we're
gonna unpack that.
(04:24):
So there's this myth wherepeople think coaching is for
people who either have it allfigured out or have totally lost
it.
And it's not about thoseextremes.
It's actually most of coachingis somewhere in the middle, but
it could be at those extremes.
It can you can definitely getcoaching when you are floating
(04:46):
along and everything is great.
You can still get coaching andit can still really support and
help you.
And when you're in a deepcrisis, you can still get
coaching and it can really stillsupport you.
Most people get coached in themiddle somewhere.
So the reality of the coachingis those middle spaces where
(05:06):
you're navigating change orgrowth or uncertainty.
And I was just want to give youan example of one of my clients,
with permission, of course, andof myself.
Carmen, who's one of my clients,said the following about
(05:28):
coaching.
My most valuable takeaway fromour sessions has been that I can
build my business however I wantto.
Even if I have built updifferent platforms, I can let
them go if they don't serve meanymore.
So this is Carmen, and she'salready made a name for herself
in the creative field.
(05:50):
She is she was feelingoverwhelmed with all the
different platforms doing hermarketing, and it was just a
lot.
She had turned into a contentcreator versus a designer and
was spending most of her timecreating content and kind of in
(06:12):
the midst of all of that, I wantto say forgot, but she didn't
forget, didn't have enough timeor didn't spend enough time
creating and finding that joyfulaction that really was the core
of why she started doing this.
So coaching helped her figurethat out and bring back the
(06:34):
balance.
And however logical that mightseem from a distance, you
probably recognize thatsometimes you're so in the
middle of something that youreally, from your perspective,
you just don't see how you howyou can get out of it, or you're
just going through the samecycle over and over again.
(06:55):
You try something out, somethingdoesn't work, then you go full
into it, and then you trysomething new out, it doesn't
work, then you go full intoanother thing, and you know, the
cycles that happen, and it canbe critical at some points of
some people's journeys.
(07:16):
So sometimes it's critical tokind of cut through it, pause,
bring some space and somereflection so that you can
together with your coach figureout where to go next.
I have been coached by KimWitten and also by and also by
(07:37):
Doga, who is an ADHD coach.
I have been coached by Vicky,who is a lifestyle coach, so
then not a life coach, but alifestyle coach.
That has something to do with myweight loss.
So I've had coaching for mybusiness, for my
(07:58):
neurodivergency, and for weightloss.
And these people have beenreally important in going
through change, navigatingchange.
They have not been therapists,which I will get into later, the
difference between all of that.
(08:41):
It was at first, I just Istarted building.
I'm such a starter.
I just, I just go and I makethings.
And as I do things, I tweak andI think, hmm, this isn't really
working.
I think people need this.
Let me ask them, do theyactually need this?
Yes, they do.
Wait, why aren't they buying it?
(09:03):
Let me ask them.
And so that's kind of how I dothings.
I tweak as I go, and that worksfor me a lot of the time, but I
also had bigger questions andwas struggling with some of it.
And that's where Kim Whitten,who was helping me with my
(09:25):
business at the time, that'swhere she came in and provided
some space for me to think.
She also had really cool toolsthat helped me clarify my
thoughts.
Basically, sh like to stay intheme and use a meth metaphor
(09:45):
that lots of you willunderstand.
I was a skein and she was theball winder and turned the skein
into a ball that I can actuallyuse to knit something with.
So if you let's stick with theskein metaphor, I'm feeling this
(10:05):
is going places.
This can really go somewhere.
Because I wasn't a knottedtangled mess.
I was a skein.
I had the thoughts and theideas, and it was all it was
there, but it needed to beturned into something that was
more aligned, more practical,and more ready for the next
(10:28):
step, aka knitting.
So yeah, that was that.
And then of course I have mylifestyle coach, and she just
basically working with me, andand she doesn't really know it,
but she's also in a way an ADHDcoach because my weight loss is
(10:50):
connected to my ADHD in so manyways.
It is, I'm just figuring all ofit out, and she's doing that
with me.
So we're working together to seewhat is actually helping and
what's not helping.
And what's a practical exampleis that I have a hard time
(11:10):
eating in the morning, but Ihave to eat something.
So, what is something I can eatwhen I'm feeling really tired,
not able to process much?
Then it's just a cracker withcheese and it's okay.
And then when I feel moreenergetic, I can do a more
elaborate, I don't know, recipefor I don't know, oats with
(11:32):
something or eggs.
I can't eat eggs early in themorning.
Anyway, I should be eating a lotof protein and I'm having a hard
time because I don't like theprotein products and I cannot
eat six eggs every time.
So she's helping me figure outwhat works for me.
That's that.
And then we have, of course, Iforgot about Dan, who is my
(11:57):
personal trainerslashphysiotherapist, who is actually
coaching me through movementthat is aligned with losing
weight and building muscle, andis also being super, super
supportive in that part of mylife.
And who else was there?
(12:18):
Oh my god, I have a whole team.
Well, not all at the same time,but it-I mean, everybody needs
support, and that's the thing.
Coaches are great to give yousupport in the moments that you
need it.
Okay, I forgot about one.
Oh, Doga.
She was actually where I amright now.
She was training to become anADHD coach, and she needed
(12:42):
people to practice with, and Iworked with her, and that was
amazingly helpful.
And she was actually also at thesame time modeling what it is
like to be coaching while you'restill learning, which is what
I'm doing right now, and thatwas really helpful for me to
have the confidence to do thatbecause I can already help
(13:04):
people in so many ways, as youheard with the example I just
gave of Carmen.
And yeah, so that's someanecdotes around coaching and
how it can help.
When I started this WayfinderLife Coach training, I'm
training with Marta Beck, who isamazingly brilliant, clever, and
(13:28):
hilariously funny.
I was just reading, wait, let mego back and check the title of
the book.
Finding your way in a Wild NewWorld.
Yes, that's it.
I was just laughing out loud.
I hardly do that when I readbooks.
And this is a book that is aboutpsychology and self-improvement,
(13:48):
all those kinds of things.
And it was really, really funny.
And that is, I think that is soimportant that you could you can
be yourself when you do thiskind of work.
Don't become one of those, yeah,like the marketing bros.
And and with the example of thethe guru from Waywards.
(14:10):
That is, if you're human, ifyou're real, if you are
connecting to actual things inactual life with actual people,
then we can move away from allthe crazy woo and a little woo.
I I'm all for a little woo, butI'm also very Dutch and very
practical, and we'll get intothe Dutch thing next.
(14:31):
So when I started with thisWayfinder life coach training, I
thought I already knew a lotbecause I had been working with
other coaches and I already hada lot of clarity, but a lot of
extra space opened up forreflection because I was
learning about the background ofit, about the tools.
(14:51):
There was a lot of awareness andI got a lot of permission to
change my mind about things alsobecause I was practicing with
other students, I'm still ampracticing with other student
coaches.
And what was really fascinatingis that if I'm practicing with
other student coaches, whathappens is I bring a coachable
(15:13):
problem to the table, which isnot too complicated, so that we
can practice techniques in alittle bit more of a gentle way.
But I started to see patternswith myself from the different
sessions that I had, I sawpatterns that have been
immensely helpful in my owngrowth as a person with those
(15:37):
people that are still training.
And the beauty of it is that youdon't even really need to know a
lot of tools, but just beingthere and listening and asking
some really good questions,that's already part of the huge
(16:00):
part of the magic.
So yeah, amazing.
I love it.
I'm not gonna be shy to say I'ma coach anymore.
I do think this episode isnecessary for some information
about what it is.
I definitely think it'snecessary in the Netherlands,
because here's the next thing.
I'm gonna give you some culturalcontext because I think the
(16:25):
Dutch perspective on coaching isinteresting.
And knowing that you areprobably either Dutch or
American, that's my widestaudience.
And if you're from somewhereelse, let me know.
I'd love to know where you'rewhere you're at.
Just saying that the Dutchperspective is interesting.
It is still relatively younghere, though it is everywhere at
(16:48):
the moment.
It seems like everyone and theirsister, what's the saying?
Everyone and their dog arebecoming a coach.
And that is really a good thing,but people don't think that's a
good thing.
So the Dutch culture oftenvalues practicality and
self-sufficiency.
(17:08):
Do my normal, don't do yourochre genuin.
That's what we say.
Do act normal, that's crazyenough.
That's that's sufficient, and itcan really make us feel like
seeking support feelsunnecessary or indulgent, like
it's not necessary.
You can figure it out byyourself, like don't spend money
on that kind of thing.
(17:30):
But I think it's reallyimportant that we reframe
coaching as a collaborativethinking partnership, which
makes a whole lot more sense.
But that's a little bit, that'sthree words instead of one.
But think about it collaborativethinking partnership makes so
much sense.
In a way, your friend, yourmother, your neighbor could be
(17:53):
that for you, but also no,because they're not neutral,
they have little bit of littlehooks inside.
That sounds weird.
They they're not neutral, so itcan be super helpful to have a
good friend listen to you, butit's even more helpful if they
are neutral and they let youthink and process your thoughts
(18:16):
and turn that skein into a verynice and tidy ball.
So Dutch people are not reallytaught to seek guidance until
something is broken.
But coaching is not aboutfixing, it's about discovering.
And that is a mindset shift or apatent shift, if you will, that
(18:37):
we really need in this creativepurpose-driven work.
Now, let me tell you about whatcoaching really is.
We're talking about coaching,consulting, therapy, mentorship,
and teaching.
Let me explain all those terms.
So, consultants have expertisein a particular industry or
(19:00):
within a particular field, andthey can give specific advice or
assist with strategy.
I do this work as well.
I help people to find a strategythat works for them, find the
tools that work for them, adviseon it.
They will explain what theirsituation is, and I will say,
(19:21):
listen, this is gonna help you.
This is gonna be really thelogical thing to use in this
moment or the logical strategyfor you.
I do that.
Consulting is almost theopposite of coaching.
I tell you what a good idea is,and though that's a natural
state for me, I love that.
(19:41):
Coaching is more and morefeeling like this is the missing
link in all of it.
So going on to mentoring,mentors are responsible for
understanding training,education, certification, career
goals of their mentees.
A mentor's role includesproviding feedback, structure,
(20:04):
and exercises for skilldevelopment and often involves a
sharing of lived experience withsomeone who is newer to a
particular field or profession.
I had to read this offsomething.
I cannot remember that.
So I do mentoring as well.
In our business circlemembership, what I do is I offer
(20:24):
exercises, and the thing that Ireally love myself is making
worksheets where people canfigure out things for them.
I can share my own experienceand what helped for me, but also
all the businesses I'veencountered in my almost two
decades of working in thisfield.
(20:44):
So my expertise is my livedexperience and sharing that.
That's what I do in kind of ahybrid form in the business
circle.
And then there's teaching.
I have my course, my program,and I'm basically just teaching
a step-by-step process of goingfrom what is what are your needs
(21:09):
and your values, and justbuilding that business around
what you need as a person, thenorganizing the business, and
then everything that has to dowith launching.
So that's the marketing and allthe icky things, but then
translate it into a languagethat's not so icky.
That is all teaching.
That is just saying this is howit's done in the way that I do
(21:34):
it.
So it's kind of meant it likeeverything kind of hits each
other and overlaps in differentways.
So it's kind of also mentoring,but not really because it's
separated from a person.
So I'm just offering you thisinformation.
Now, therapy has the mostrecognizable overlap.
And professionals in thesefields, in each field, often use
(21:58):
tools and concepts from acrossthe aisle.
So, for example, within theWayfinder Life Coach training,
we'll work with the fourcategories of human experience,
and that is derived fromconcepts originally developed by
Aaron Beck in cognitivebehavioral therapy.
(22:19):
And we also use ACT tools,acceptance and commitment
therapy, and we work with dreamanalysis and the techniques that
are developed by Carl Jung.
So that said, it's important tobe able to distinguish therapy
from coaching, and there'sseveral ways to do that.
And I think the easiest way tolook at it is restoring versus
(22:42):
enhancing function.
So a coach is to a therapist asa personal trainer is to a
physician.
Medical doctors and therapistsare often trying to restore
function to help an unwellperson become well.
A personal trainer or a coach,on the other hand, is there to
enhance or optimize functioning.
(23:02):
So in my literal example, is I'mworking with my physio to make
the best of the use of my footthat has a little bit of, let's
not get into detail about myfoot, but I have something
that's not really working in theway it could be, and so we're
(23:24):
making the best of it so that Ican exercise and do my walks and
hikes in a pain-free way.
All right, now what's alsoimportant is partnering with the
client.
As a coach, you work togetherwith the client, and of course,
therapists do that as well, butthe information comes more from
(23:48):
the therapist to the client.
Whereas in coaching, it kind ofrefers to the way that the
client wants to, what the clientwants to accomplish in the
overall coaching engagement.
The source of coaching goals anddirections is always the client.
And then the third part to focuson is focusing on the present
(24:12):
and future.
Coaching is present and futurefocused.
It doesn't mean that yourclients, coaching clients, don't
have past or that they don'tcome into the conversation.
They do, and there's lots ofsafe and brave space for that.
There is definitely cryinginvolved.
(24:34):
I mean, definitely there is youlook back, but we're focused
forwards in terms of finding away.
And in therapy, there's morefocus to the past and what has
happened and to heal that.
So that's a difference there.
So now let's talk about myapproach because you want to
(24:59):
work with somebody that isclicking, that feels like it's
your person.
And of course, you can work withlots of different people, but
it's nice if you have a littlebit of extra with the person
that you work with.
So the people that I work withare often the best way to
(25:20):
describe it is multi-passionate.
I work with all kinds of peoplethat are everyone's creative,
but have creativity as a core ofwho they are and what they do,
but also people that want tomake a change in the world, make
a change in their lives, arefocused on making things better
(25:42):
for themselves, but also for theworld around them.
They love to create things thatare meaningful and want to do it
in a way that feels good and notforced.
So we're not about the hustlementality.
We're moving away from the crazymarketing bros and the you
(26:03):
should this, you should have somany followers, and this is what
you do now on YouTube or onInstagram or on TikTok.
And um, although I'm now here onYouTube, it's all about making
informed decisions and makingconscious decisions, and that's
what coaching can help you with.
But so what we do with coachingis that we slow down enough to
(26:28):
notice what's truly working forthem.
We find patterns, we redefinesuccesses and make space for joy
again.
That's an important one.
Lots, and like I said, with theexample with Carmen, we kind of
forget, and there's also anotherclient that I have, but I don't
have their permission, so I willnot name any names, but they
(26:50):
were also saying, wait, I'mactually not spending time on
designing.
And they realized that that wasthat is the core of what they
do, and they build this wholebusiness and this whole frame
around it, but they forgot aboutthe core.
(27:13):
So we, as I said, we make spacefor the joy and what was
originally the reason that youstarted your business.
Or if you want to start abusiness, focus on why you want
to start a business and how doyou envision that in terms of
(27:36):
when the business meets thatpassion and the rest of your
life.
So it's not about becomingsomeone new, it's becoming it's
about coming back to who you'vebeen all along.
All right, so I hope youunderstand what coaching is or
(28:02):
can be, and that there'sdifferent ways to coach as well.
It's different if you're aleadership coach, if you're a
football coach.
The word coach is not aprotected word, and that's why
it was, and it still is soimportant for me to get an
accreditation from a sourcethat's well respected, like
(28:27):
Wayfinder Life Coach trainingwith Martha Beck, but also the
ICF, the coaching, like thebigger organization that is
trying to give coaching a littlebit more structure so that when
you work with a coach, you knowwhat to expect.
So there's a whole there's allkinds of ethics rules that we
(28:50):
are we are learning about and weshould implement.
So that is really important forme.
So I'm focusing on being thatkind of a coach.
I hope you understand now thatcoaching is not a plan B, it is
actually a way forward, and it'sfor anyone who wants to work and
(29:15):
live with more clarity andcourage and creativity.
And if you've been thinkingabout what's next for you, if
you've been coming back to thesame questions or don't even
know what questions to ask toget to your next step, if it's
you whether that's in yourbusiness or your craft or your
(29:36):
life, it's probably acombination of all these things.
As another client I was workingwith realized that they were
focusing on life more thananything else in our sessions
because that needed to be clearfor them before they could start
(29:58):
with the next step.
So if you're ready to pause andreflect and explore that with
me, I'm here and I still havespace for new clients.
You can find all the informationon patentshift.fm, also on
ya-vool.com.
It's actually the same website,just a different way of getting
(30:21):
there.
You don't have to do it alone,and it's not for specific
people, it's for everybody.
And in terms of budget, I stilloffer my low rate because I
haven't finished my educationfrom December onwards.
I will have finished.
So I think this is a greatmoment.
If you're curious, just ifyou're curious, try it out, see
(30:44):
if it's for you, and do it at avery low rate.
So you can join also mynewsletter, The Yavel Journal,
where you find a lot more thanjust coaching.
It's I hope that it embodieswhat I'm trying to offer and
share with you.
(31:04):
That it is a holisticexperience, life and having a
creative business.
And in the Yavel Journal, I showyou all those different aspects
from my life.
It's really about craft, aboutbusiness, about puppies, about
growing flax in short snippetswith pretty pictures.
(31:25):
At least I try to give you somepretty pictures.
So sign up.
You can do that in the shownotes.
And yeah, if you're feeling thatlittle bit of curiosity, the
little bit of the gentle tugpulling and thinking, oh, I need
to shift something.
I need to move in anotherdirection.
I don't know where to go.
Maybe this is your sign.
Maybe just reach out and ask me.
(31:49):
And we can do a free session tostart off with, just for you to
ask any questions that you mighthave after, even after this
episode.
And then we'll take it fromthere.
All right.
I hope you enjoyed this and I'mwishing you a wonderful,
insightful, and aligned.
(32:09):
No, yucky.
I don't know.
Things like journey and alignedand all these words, it's
actually really complicatedbecause I want to move away from
this.
I don't want to have anything todo with the wayward type guru
figure.
I am not anything like that.
(32:31):
I mean that's clear, right?
But what happens is we start touse this kind of vocabulary, and
then it becomes icky, and thenwe start to realize that that's
happening, and then we want touse other words, but it is what
it is, right?
So I shouldn't really overthinkit myself.
(32:51):
Perhaps that is one of thethings that I can get myself
coached on with my practice andjust see what comes up.
How do I use words for things?
How do I even speak?
Luckily, as a coach, you mainlylisten.
Let's hang out again next time.
Bye.
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