October 10, 2024 • 60 mins
Ever wondered how a small business can disrupt an entire market? Anna pulls back the curtain on how Wundersie is shaking up the knitting accessory scene with sustainable products, including eco-friendly needle cases made from vegan "leather paper." Her personal brand on Instagram is a vibrant showcase of these unique creations and a lesson in conscious consumerism. Listen as Anna discusses the challenges of starting a business in Germany and the importance of focusing on one's strengths to drive growth. With a partnership with renowned needle producer Addi, Wundersie is gearing up for even greater things.
https://www.instagram.com/anna.allers/
https://linktr.ee/anna.allers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you hear the word marketing, do you
disassociate and run for thehills?
Do you bury your head in thesand and post another story on
Instagram and be done with it?
You are not the only one, butsharing what you have with
others spoiler, that's all it isisn't that hard.
In fact, even the experts arejust winging it.
(00:22):
So relax, spoiler winging it isthe definition of marketing.
At the end of May, I visitedthe Berlin Wedding Wool Weekend,
which had nothing to do withanyone's wedding.
It is actually a part of Berlinwhere the event was happening.
I met and interviewed somewonderful fiber business owners
(00:45):
there and I shared that reportin episode 84.
One of the businesses there wasWundersee and it is run by Anna
und Heiderun.
I'm saying Anna und Heiderun,Anna and Heiderun, and I
immediately spotted theirconsistent branding, their style
, their unique products.
Spotted their consistentbranding, their style, their
(01:07):
unique products.
And when I talked to Anna, Iwas intrigued by her answers and
found out she's got abackground in marketing that
explained a lot.
Her knowledge and insights areclearly visible from her website
, newsletters and social media.
Naturally, I scheduled a longerconversation with her to find
out more.
So how can we learn more aboutmarketing well, without getting
(01:41):
the heebie-jeebies?
Here's Anna, Anna, I'm so gladyou're here.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Welcome to the Patent Shift podcast.
Hi, Saskia.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Thank you for inviting me to your podcast.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Your brand just stood out to mein Berlin and I really had to
talk to you and learn a littlebit more than just the short
conversation we had in Berlin.
So how about we start off witha little bit of a kind of a
quick fire short questions sothat we can get to know you a
little bit?
Okay, okay, what has your daybeen like so far?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Very busy.
I usually need till very lateat night and then I wake up
something like 6.30 because Ihave to wake up my kids, bring
them to school, and then I startmy day, my work something like
(02:35):
9, 10 am, and I'll give you asentence with some empty parts
in it.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I'll first say the sentence and then I'll ask you
to fill in the parts.
So I help people dot dot, dotbecause, or so that they dot dot
, dot dot.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I help people to be proud of their craft, of their
knitting, of what they can dowith their hands.
I help people to start knittingbecause it's worth sharing.
(03:20):
You should be proud of what youdo with your hands, of what you
can need for yourself, andbecause knitting is really like
a meditation to me and it'sworth, yeah, trying to switch
off from your smartphone and dosome knitting.
You know, change theperspective and slow down, yeah,
(03:43):
slow down, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So is your business your main occupation, or do you
have family?
You mentioned your family.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yes, of course Family is my another occupation, but
in the context of business, I doWundersee well full-time, but I
also parallel to do my.
I have my clients.
Well, I have one client at themoment whom I support with
(04:12):
marketing, with social mediamarketing, right yes, um, that
immediately makes it so clearwhy you stand out so much.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Uh, how many years have you been in business?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
in this.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Wundersee business.
Well, almost a year, almost ayear, very short.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, very short, like from the moment we
registered our company.
It's been almost a year, but ofcourse we started, you know,
prototyping before, so maybe twoyears now, yes, right, yeah,
and so far, what do you consideryour biggest success?
(04:53):
oh well that we.
We started from scratch and weare it's, it's.
You know, we are not therewhere I imagined us or wished us
to be, but we are growingorganically.
At the moment, from months tomonths, we are growing in terms
of figures, um and that's, and,and that's my biggest
(05:18):
achievement, because it's notjust the figures for me, it's
the way I do it, the way I openup, I go online, I do social
media, I show myself, you know,and it's a lot about mindset as
well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Just quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
You say we because it's you and your mother-in-law,
right, my mother-in-law weregistered together as equal
partners, but we also have myhusband who supports us with our
B2B clients, right, and we alsohave a designer and a person
(05:57):
who supports me with the content, with the cut in the content.
So I have a small team.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Wow, yeah, so quickly .
A team already, but, like afamily, is a team in itself and
if they are willing toparticipate, there you are,
there's your team.
It's a great support.
Yeah, yeah, sounds amazing.
So we talked about your biggestsuccess.
I think that's a big successand anything that has been that
(06:29):
you can label a failure or, if afailure is a little bit too
much, a disappointment, so farthat you are willing to share.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh, I love sharing disappointments.
I love sharing disappointments.
Well, maybe the decision.
I made a decision at thebeginning of this year to do
Wundersee full time.
Like I said, I don't want tohave any more clients, you know,
(07:02):
I want to completelyconcentrate on our brand.
I don't see it as a failure,but I think it was maybe a bit
of a rash decision, because Iimagined us having a much more
um how do you say it?
Umsats in english revenue, yeah, yeah, but it's not the case.
And so I had to go back to myclients because I need to earn
something.
I'm not, you know, we are.
(07:23):
Everything we earn with funda,zv reinvest in this business.
I'm not, you know, everythingwe earn with Wunderse, we
reinvest in this business.
So I need my, you know, to livefor something, and that's why I
had to go back.
But it's, I think it's part ofthe process, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Oh, and your business is still young.
I mean yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, it's like.
That's why I'm saying it's notquite a, but I always rush
things and I want right now,everything what I dream of and
that's what I learned don't rush, yeah, it will be.
You will be there where youwant to be.
Just you know, do your thingconstantly, day to day, and you
(08:05):
will be there yeah, that's kindof.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
The next question is what?
What took you years to learn?
Well, maybe this didn't takeyou years to learn, but it's
definitely a big thing to learnto trust the process and take it
one step at a time.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yes, I I mean, I was, uh, I've been freelancing like
I'm doing this whole.
You know my own business sincethree years.
Before I was working in anoffice, I was working in a big
American company and I was anauditor or a revisor.
I was employed and I wasgetting my salary, and these
(08:42):
three years I'm freelancing andI'm doing marketing.
It's been so transformationaland the big thing I learned is
to trust the process, not torush the things.
Yeah, this was my big learning.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Is there any part of runningyour business so far that you
absolutely, absolutely adore andlove and want to do all of it
all of the time?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, yeah, I mean creating a product, doing those
all cute, beautiful things forour shop.
Yeah, the wool, the products weproduce ourselves or the
products we buy somewhere elseand then sell in our shop all
this cute stuff.
Yeah, I really like it notcreating this also in my house,
(09:34):
where I live with my family.
It's a beautiful thing we didinside.
That's what I love.
That's what I love creatingthis atmosphere, this coziness
we say in the Netherlands,gezellig and that's what I do in
my business on our online shop.
(09:55):
It's very aesthetical and that'swhat brings me a lot of joy
packing the product, doing itall really beautiful nicely, so
that the person who unpacks itlike wow, and like this is so
beautiful, and then you have abig, a better mood.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
You're like you're chill up and, yeah, this yeah,
it's an experience, and a verypositive experience for you as
well as the customer by thesound of it.
Last quick question and thenwe'll just start conversing um
anything you absolutely do notlike about running a business of
(10:37):
course.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Of course you have so much like accounting.
I mean, even though I used tobe an auditor.
There are things you must do.
You, you know we receive ingermany, we receive, especially
when you just registered.
There are things, you haveinsurance.
There are so many things youhave to deal, like all those
(10:58):
bureaucratic papers, accounting,doing the books and yeah, this
all.
Yeah, I have to do it and nomatter how I feel I have to do
it and that's and I do it.
You know, I like to do it whenI'm in a mood for it, yeah, but
you have to do it till thequarter end and it doesn't
(11:21):
matter if you're sick or tiredor you want to need.
You have to do these things andthat's what I hate.
The questions that I receivesometimes from the others who
dream of doing a small businessis like anna, how did you
register?
You know, like those, yeah,yeah, those you know, especially
in germany.
You know, because you, if youmake a mistake, they will not be
(11:44):
nice to you.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
No, no, but that's why I think it's I mean for me
personally and I think for a lotof people, especially if you
get that like tight feeling inyour throat when you talk about,
when we talk about these things, one of the best things that
you can do is, as soon as youcan afford to pay somebody to do
it, just to hand it over andlet somebody take care of it.
(12:10):
That one knows what they'redoing and two doesn't mind doing
it because they are gettingpaid for it.
But almost all of the time youhave to do these things yourself
in the beginning, and of courseI did and I of course I know
what to do, but I feel like I'mnot the person to teach you
(12:30):
those kinds of things, and thatis somewhere else I can do the
marketing, the branding, thecommunication, the soulful
connection to what you need, allof that.
And uh, I leave.
Uh, I leave the rest to.
But we, we do talk about money,but in other ways yeah, yeah,
(12:50):
but.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
But.
But bookkeeping is anyway whereit depends on the country
you're located in yes,definitely, that's also a big
part of it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Absolutely, yeah, um, so well, I think we got to know
you a little bit from this.
We know your likes, yourperhaps dislikes, how long
you've been on this path, thefact that you're doing pretty
well and your wishes for thefuture.
You still have enough to wishfor.
What we didn't mention is whatis the unique thing about
(13:23):
Wundersee?
What do you offer yourcustomers?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
well, we, we, we want to sorry maybe it sounds a bit
big but modernize, transformthis market, because I'm
personally I'm tired of productswhich, yeah, which I just made
just to be sold.
Like plastic, you know, wool,that is mainstream.
(13:49):
Um, some accessories forknitting, that I just not like,
not nice, they just the.
The market is flooded with with, with stuff which you know,
like if you work on amazon, likeyou will got this project bags
or something you like, what Iwill never want it for myself.
(14:12):
I want something nice, I want,I want to, you know, get it out
of my bag when I'm in a trainmeeting and I want to have it a
nice thing and be proud of itand show it, have something
elegant, um, and not some crapso I'm hearing you say uh,
design material, uh, theconscious thinking of what you
(14:40):
pick out with what you need,because we, we don't.
We also we started selling woolin our shop, but not just any
mainstream wool.
We really we really pick thebrands we will sell.
Like we have an italian wool,that is really something special
, because I want you know I'mlearning as well myself where
(15:02):
this wool is coming from and Ialso wish that the others would
also think okay, where is myyeah, where are my materials
coming from?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Okay, and so the main product that most people know
you for the type of products areneedle cases and accessories,
and they're made of quite quitean exceptional, interesting
material.
Can you tell us, talk to us alittle bit about that?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
yes, the material is called um leather paper in
german.
If we compare it to the liliesjeans label yeah, I think they
also.
They do it now from thismaterial as well.
It's not leather anymore, it'sright leather paper, so it's
(15:51):
really a stable, robust material.
You can wash it in, even in awashing machine, but it's not
leather, so it's vegan and it'salso sustainable.
And it's sustainable because webuy this material in Germany in
a small fabric which you knowthey would otherwise burn it
(16:14):
because it has some smallimperfections and they cannot
ship it to their final customers.
But we buy this paper withsmall imperfections.
We cut our products, you know,without, of course, those
imperfections, but we save thispaper, which is an amazing
material, yeah, and we produceour, our knitting needle
(16:38):
organizers out of it again,right, like we are trying to not
to create more damage with ourbusiness where we can yeah, and
the look of them.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Of course, people, we will.
We'll give you all the contactinformation.
You can go ahead.
And actually, why don't youmention your instagram right now
?
Because people that arelistening might want to just
have a little bit of a view asthey're listening yeah, well, my
I'm that's my name Anna, pointpoint alerts.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So that's all for our Instagram, because I'm sort of
a personal brand behind ourbrand and that's why we that's
also where our business isrunning on my page, on my
account yeah, so that's uh a n?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
n?
A dot a l l e r s exactly.
Thank you okay.
That's it okay.
So, going back to the look ofthem, I would describe them as,
um, almost like an origamifolding technique, and when you
are looking at a shape like atriangle and then you fold it
(17:52):
open, in one movement it becomesa rectangle, and the rectangle
on the left-hand side has acircle stitched on it, and also
on the right-hand side, and thecircles are stitched with
crosses, and so that gives youlittle pockets where you can put
in your circular needles andalso your sock needles I think
(18:16):
they'll fit as well and some,maybe some small items, and you
fold it together and thennothing drops out exactly and
you can have this.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You can.
You can have it on yourbookshelf, you know it's it
stands it stands upside, andthen you have the different
colors.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
So there's uh, paper, brown, snazzy, uh almost
lacquered lilac, which I'mespecially wearing my lilac
t-shirt today, because it's onbrand and what else do you have?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
we have black, we have gray.
Uh, then the the best sellingcolor is, of course, natural is
the neutral one.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
yeah, yeah, cool, um yeah.
So that's definitely one ofyour unique selling points, is
that those products yeah, theuniqueness of them, the
innovative design is yes,definitely.
There's nothing like that on themarket Not that I've seen in
(19:21):
any way and the way they'reproduced and the way they look,
all of it together makes for aunique product.
I love them.
It's great.
It is because and this kind oflands us into the realm of
values it is because I have somany needle cases that I would
have to throw away reallywell-functioning items that I do
(19:44):
love.
Otherwise I would just if I'dhave crap or things I really
didn't like, or if I was readyfor an upgrade, I would totally
make a bookcase with thembecause they're so pretty and
useful and great.
So, values you already talked alittle bit about thinking about
the environment.
(20:05):
Is there anything about yourbusiness that you particularly
are?
What are particular things thatyou think are important in
running a business, in dealingwith customers?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
yes, it's.
It's a good question, likebecause we are all competing, to
be honest, we are all competingwith amazon, right?
Honest, we are all competingwith Amazon, right?
Mm-hmm, all small.
So we have to be personal, wehave to bear for our customers,
because I cannot write to amazonand ask my questions, but my
(20:40):
customers can write to me and Iwill always help them to pick up
the wool for the project orpick up the right case for the
needles.
So this is the most importantfor small business to be like,
reachable, and that's why wehave, we try to have a telephone
number, email everywhere andcommunicate everywhere you can
(21:01):
contact us and that's whatpeople do write us an email, ask
us we are there for you, yeah,and and you're also very visible
on your website and on socialmedia.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I think that I think that's one of the interesting
things, that I want to go alittle bit deeper to talk to you
about this, because what Iexperience with my clients a lot
of the time is they are too shyto show their faces and what
you then get is going back tothe Amazon thing is that you
land on a website and you don'tsee your face and you just see
(21:39):
products and it feels verybusinessy and you miss the kind
of connection that you couldhave made with your customers,
and I think you're doing areally good job with that.
But you're also heavy, heavy onthe social media.
What would you say to peoplewho are not comfortable in being
on social media as much?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Well, what helps me is doing it together with my
mother-in-law.
She's one of the shy person.
She didn't want to do videoswith me and we did this together
and I was supporting her and ithelped me also.
Well, it's sort of I had to doit because, if you know, if
(22:25):
she's shy, there is somebodyfrom us who needs to be a face,
who needs to be there because,exactly like it's a small
business, this is the biggestand one of the yeah, one of the
biggest advantages you have isthat you are a person and that's
why people buy from you,because you are there.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So you have to show yourself wow, and I think you
can do it, and there's a wholespectrum from not showing
yourself to being a full contentcreator.
There's everything in betweenfind your format exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I never like.
I started YouTube a couple ofmonths ago and I never thought
it would be so easy for me.
You know there is anothersocial media like LinkedIn,
which is a text.
It's it not really for usrelevant for businesses like us,
it's more, you know, b2b.
But I was also on LinkedIn fora while for my freelancing and
(23:23):
it was really difficult for mebecause it's a lot of text.
It's not my format.
I like a video.
I just sit down and I chat andI talk, yeah, and then just
working on my mindset, workingwith the coach who helped me to
believe in me that you know I'mworse, what I'm telling and
(23:43):
whatever barriers I have in mymind, I worked on them.
So it was also a process for meto, step by step, open up and
now I do YouTube and I'm like,wow, I really like it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So did you decide on working with a coach for that
reason specifically?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Well, I was freelancing and I changed
basically my profession fromauditing to marketing and I had
a lot of like, if I could mindfucks, yeah, you can say that.
Yeah, a lot of things like I'mnot good enough.
Yeah, I changed.
I'm like, I'm not asexperienced as anybody else on
(24:31):
the market.
A lot of things in my mind.
That's why I went to the coach.
But you know, working on thosethings, you of course clear out
some other mindfucks you had.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Helps you to go to be visible on social media.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, I loved working with a coach.
I mean, it's an investment, butyou are investing in yourself
and in your business and itdoesn't have to be like super,
super expensive.
But I think sometimes we forgetthat in order to make money,
sometimes you also have toinvest money, not always, but,
and there's other ways to goabout it, like good chats with
(25:13):
friends will help you as well,as long as you're willing to
take their advice yes, yes,sharing with your family your
difficulties, because my husband, he was always, he's still
telling me Anna, you can do it,uh, and you know she's like,
he's showing me the things I cando, good, and it helps.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
It helps.
It also, like you know, givesme confidence.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And if you know Woundersy and Anna and what she
does online, you would never Iwould have never thought that
you asked for help with this,because this is not how you come
across.
You come across as genuine andas a loving, kind person with a
lot of feeling for aestheticsand enjoying what you do.
(26:08):
That's what I'm seeing, and I'malso seeing somebody who takes
a lot of effort in selling theirproducts in a way that kind of
feels good to you.
It's not like yucky selling,but you're definitely selling
your product.
You're not selling yourlifestyle and hoping that
somebody will buy your product,and I think some people get a
(26:31):
little bit confused about it.
Their whole idea of marketing isjust having an Instagram
account and, of course, choosingyour channel is one step and
then figuring out how much ofyou you want to share, because
what I said earlier on thatscale from not being visible at
(26:53):
all to being a full contentcreator.
You cannot be a full contentcreator because that's a job in
itself.
You have to have enough time todo the things and make the
decisions that bring yourbusiness forward, and that's
such a bulk, such a it is Likeeven you know, even making the
stories on instagram is a workthat you have to schedule in
(27:17):
your house you have to scheduletime for it.
It's not like you see, you knowand stop, if you're, if your
block of work time is over, anddo something else.
Yeah, I'm seeing your eyes go.
Yeah, I should do more of thatlike, like you mean, block the
time if you, if you, yeah, yeah,it's just or say, like Monday
(27:41):
is uh content creation day andthe rest of the week, um, maybe
I will react to whatever I haveposted on Wednesday for half an
hour and then I'll do the otherstuff.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, I like every day I have a time scheduled for
stories.
Or if I know I have some newproducts and we have to, you
know, do the storytellingannounce the launch, then I
definitely schedule the storiesand I schedule like maybe even
one hour, because it's not, youknow.
(28:15):
You see that my stories and itseems so easy and easygoing and
natural, but it really takes metime and really takes me effort
sometimes to do them, you know,because I'm a woman and I have
my circles, you know, I have myyeah, yeah, so, um, and I also
(28:36):
schedule, like today's aThursday, and I and I, on
Thursdays, I do my YouTubevideos and I schedule them.
Uh, and I stick to the schedule.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I do that.
I need that too.
I need it just just for thebasic fact of um doing a little
bit more effort on putting onlipstick and having freshly
washed hair, all of that.
If I had to do it on the goevery single time, I try that,
(29:06):
but then I don't feel great.
Or I feel great because I'mlike I'm supernatural and it's
fine.
People can see me like rightout of bed, but I don't always
feel like that.
So it's kind of finding thebalance of and this is the work
around boundaries how much ofyourself are you willing to give
?
How much is self?
(29:27):
How much is business?
Where do you plan it?
And with all of that togetheryou can find a balance that
works for you and that works foryour business.
But it's it's consciousthinking, yes, it's conscious
thinking.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's constant working .
Yeah, just this, constantlydoing it, like from day to day,
sticking to your schedule andnot dropping the ball.
You know, this is what.
Yeah, this is what brings youthere where you want to be.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, and it's yeah, that that has been an
interesting, um, an interestingthing for me.
We talked about it in thecommunity with our monthly, we
have a monthly uh wins and woesuh meetup where we talk about
our wins and our woes.
And, um, I talked about thismonth.
(30:22):
Um, I've been having a hardtime showing up in my
newsletters, being there everyother week, uh, because I've not
been fit, I've been sick andit's been hard.
And how much are you going tobeat yourself up about it and
how much can you just keep thata little bit more loosely in
(30:44):
your hand?
Because all the marketing gurusonline say you have to show up
consistently, otherwise you'lllose.
Consistently, otherwise you'lllose.
I'm a little bit less strictabout that, not just because, uh
, I'm in a position where I havesome things with my health, but
also for everybody else it'snot healthy.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean, like just this week, I always I also
committed doing a newsletteronce per week.
It usually comes out on Friday,but also this week I did my
wisdom tooth.
I know no, but it's alsosomething complicated yeah so
that's why this week I said,okay, um, I, I skipped the
(31:27):
newsletter tomorrow.
Yeah, this week, because, yes,I have yesterday I had to take
care of myself and I can't today, you know, do the plan like I
can't jump over my head.
So I do the newsletter nextweek and that's okay.
It's the same, like you do withsport, with, you know, with the
(31:48):
diet.
It's the same process.
You just you commit to yourself, you do it, you try to keep it
constantly, but it's okay if you, if you, one time you just you
skip it.
You know you have a reason.
You're human, so you go nextweek.
It's not like the way ofthinking where you oh, my
(32:10):
newsletter, I'm doing it forthree months and I still have 10
subscribers Okay, whatever, I'mnot going to do it.
And I still have 10 subscribersokay, whatever, I'm not gonna
do it anymore.
No, keep going.
But think of how can you getyour subscribe.
You know the new subscribers.
What can you do else?
Because probably what you'redoing is just not maybe the
right thing, but don't you know,don't stop it completely,
(32:31):
because it's just not workingright now, and so when you make
your content for social media, Imostly have seen Instagram and
I've also seen one YouTube video.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
When people land there, how do you direct what's
the next place you want them togo there?
How do you direct what's thenext place you want them to go?
Are you trying to sell them, togo and buy something on the
spot?
Are you, do you want them tocome back to instagram?
Do you want them to sign up forthe newsletter?
(33:10):
Do you have thoughts, ideasabout that?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
yes, and it's well.
It's not it, it depends on the.
It's really well when we talkabout social media.
First, you know, for me it's Ihave, like now we are on
Instagram, we are on Pinterest,like we are pinning every day,
we are on youtube with a weeklyvideo.
(33:35):
On youtube, instagram, we dodaily, we do all say newsletter,
and also we do a blog like onan online shop, um and that, and
, and I also want to do linkedinand I want to do youtube in
russian, and so I think that youhave to be everywhere, like you
have to develop your socialmedia step by step so that you
(33:58):
are really, if you want morecustomers, you have to be on a
lot of platforms, and then it'slike it's a constant movement
around the channels that we have.
The main goal is to bring themto our online shop.
So it's either from Instagram,from Reel, from Stories or from
(34:20):
YouTube, it doesn't matter, butthe goal is to have traffic in
our online shop.
Right, do you?
Do you?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
know where most of your customers come from.
And let's not forget the, thefairs and the festivals and the
markets oh yeah, the markets.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
We do as well.
Uh, and we, you know, alsothere is and and when we go to
the market, of course, we sellon the spot, for now it's
actually the best workingplatform for us to be, that's
market.
That's where we sell the most.
But then I also inform peoplethat we have Instagram and I
bring them to the Instagram andthen to the online shop.
(35:01):
Like, I try to get themsubscribed to any of our
channels, from where they go toour online shop so that they
stay with us for a longer time.
They go to our online shop sothat they stay with us for a
longer time.
So we don't have to get all thenew people every time, but we
nurture the people that wealready have so that they come
all over and over to us.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
And why not put the emphasis on a newsletter so that
they don't directly have to buy, but they're in your kind of
bubble, a little bit more closeto you, a little bit more
information, compared toInstagram, where they give you a
little heart and they love itand they give a little heart and
(35:43):
then they move on.
Is there anything?
Do you have any plans orthoughts around that?
You mean focus, rather havefocus on one platform on getting
people to your newsletter, sosay you're on a fair or market
to to first of all get them onthe newsletter rather than focus
(36:04):
first on instagram like for me,I started on instagram, like my
whole journey started oninstagram like six years ago.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
So for me, instagram is a key.
That's what I do the best.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, you're comfortable.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And I know how to how with my stories and with my
storytelling.
How, then, to you know from thestories to bring people where I
want them to go.
So for me, instagram is like astarting point and when we're on
the market, yes, I try to bringpeople to Instagram, not to our
(36:43):
newsletter, because, from myexperience, subscribing to a
newsletter takes you much moreeffort than subscribing to
somebody's instagram, becausenewsletter is a bigger
commitment, you know you haveemails in your mailbox.
Not everybody wanted.
But to subscribe to instagramis much less commitment and I
(37:07):
know how to bring them frominstagram to newsletter like.
Like you know, I accumulatethis.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
And then I do a drop and I bring them to newsletter
and I see a race of mysubscribers on my newsletter
Like because I plan newsletter.
I think, okay, what can I like?
Which content I do fornewsletter which sort of
motivates Instagram followers togo and subscribe to my
(37:35):
newsletter?
So that that's, that's my wayof strategy of thinking.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, that's what I was after.
What the?
What you're thinking and yourstrategy behind it is yeah,
sounds great, yeah, so, um, haveyou started to measure things?
Like, as I was saying before,do you know where most of your
customers come from?
Do you know if they arereturning customers?
(38:02):
How much of that kind of thingdo you do?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
well, and yeah, we still do not enough, I think.
But and it's also not alwayseasy to track with new
guidelines, are you?
We don't always see in our shopwhere the person is coming from
and we see a lot of like.
If I compare, if I takepinterest and I see the outgoing
clicks from pinterest and thenI compare them with the incoming
clicks on our online shop, thenumber will not match, don't
match Like, really, it's likenot even close.
(38:39):
So it's really difficult totrack.
But we, what we do, we I wish Iwas doing it on a weekly basis,
but I don't.
I can't do it.
It's not like.
I track the numbers on on ouronline shop and also I check
this google how do you call iton google?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I forgot to google.
Yeah, but see, but I'm notdoing it.
But they're making it socomplicated and then they're
changing everything around likeand, and that's why I think a
lot of small businesses arescared of tracking numbers.
But it could be super simple.
It could be you've had afestival then.
(39:19):
How much more did your sales goup in the next few weeks, or
not?
Did you get more newsletters,subscribers, those kinds of
things can be simple to track,but tell you a lot yeah, yeah,
like on on the scale we we donow we can it's called google
analytics google analytics, buton a scale like we are now, it's
(39:41):
not, you know that biggerfigures, that I.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I know where the what works, where the people are
coming from, and some I, and wehave a lot of returning
customers because I know themall from Instagram.
I see them all over andsometimes our Shopify shows us
as well.
This one is coming from YouTubeon.
Yeah, so I do.
(40:05):
I do track the numbers on ourShopify and I have an Excel
where I record them.
That's actually what I want todo weekly.
Like you record the revenue,you record how much you spend on
your ads.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, don't forget about those apps.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You record whatever else you do, like how much you
spend on Pinterest, how much youspend on YouTube or on
Instagram, and then how muchrevenue you got.
Then, yeah, you track those.
This simple table I have inExcel.
All the other figures I haveeither in my head because I know
the business, because it's notat that big scale, or I check
(40:48):
them in Shopify.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, yeah, so I also have.
This is, by the way, not anadvertisement.
I should really reach out tothem because I'm always Shopify,
shopify.
I've had Shopify website foryears and I've been very happy
with it.
When I was in my shop, I alsostarted to use the POS point of
(41:12):
sale system and whenever I havea moment, I will try to convince
my clients that when you're ona market and you have a website
that can record, you can selland get it out of your website
at the same moment and recordwhat happens.
(41:34):
It just blows my mind that not alot of people use that, that
they're in their hotel roomswriting down what they've sold
so that then the next week orsomething, they can process it.
Well, all of that can be fullyautomated.
Process it well, all of thatcan be fully automated.
And of course, it costs alittle bit money, but it takes
(41:55):
away so much of the work andthat kind of thinking where you
think about working smarter and,as you're saying, you have this
whole marketing mix of allthese different platforms that
you.
It's a lot of time, it's a lotof commitment.
So how much of automation, evenAI, do you use in your business
(42:21):
?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
oh, I use AI for texts.
I use daily for all my content,everywhere I useplexity, if I
can mention them.
I love this AI and I also likenow we are just finished
automating our B2B process, howour B2B customers buy from us,
(42:45):
because before it was verymanual and now I know an IT
person I know why people arestruggling with it.
He used like five softwareprograms to build this
automation from us.
But now it's a portal where ourB2B customers log in and then
they see our product catalog andthen they can place an order
(43:07):
all automated.
And then they log in again andthey see a placed order and then
they see an invoice.
All that before was donemanually and also all the orders
.
We are keep tracking them nowin another portal, like we are
building our crm system.
Basically, you know yeah, yeahyeah b2b crm system.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Those are big words, people.
B2b crm system.
B2 are big words, people.
B2b CRM system.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
B2B is when we sell to our end customers via our
online shop, but we also sell toother shops, like yarn shops.
We sell our products our cases.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yes, thank you.
And CRM, what is it?
Customer RelationshipManagement.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes, drm.
What is it?
Customer RelationshipManagement?
Yes, like for us, it's where wekeep track of our B2B customers
, like whom we want to acquire,like whom we already contacted
and send an offer, whom wealready have, and we also keep a
track there of the orders likepro customer.
You know we don't have thatmany yet, um, but it's.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
That's the best thing about it, if you're willing to
learn new things within yourbusiness and you start when you
don't have, when the need is nothuge then you can slowly grow
into it.
And the other way around it canwork as well.
I I have canceled my CRM systembecause it was doing too many
things.
I didn't need it, so I just putit into a Notion page.
(44:38):
And another thing is mynewsletter system.
I was totally invested ingetting the best newsletter
system and it was so complicatedthat I got it, but it wasn't
fun anymore.
So for that reason and this isa little bit of an advert I have
(45:00):
a little discount for you inthe show notes.
But that's the reason why Iwent to Flowdesk because it
looks great, it's easy to use,they have everything you need
and sometimes you don't needanything more complicated.
But what happens is that peopleget intimidated and they freeze
(45:23):
and they think nevermind, I'lljust do Instagram.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, and I suffer from it as well.
I, I quite.
You know, whenever somethingnew I want to start, I so much
over complicate it in my headthat, when, and you know, like,
okay, that's enough, anna, youjust start right now and just
start like whatever, just dowith one simple step.
Yeah, start doing it.
(45:50):
And I'm like my God, why areyou overcomplicating it?
Exactly exactly, and you askedme at the beginning about my
failures, and that's sort of oneof them.
At the beginning, I was also.
You know, I get the best, thebest social media system so that
when I post the content it getposted everywhere, you know,
(46:12):
like butterflies.
And then it costed me a lot ofmoney per month and at some
point I cancelled it because,like, anna, come on, you you're
not there yet.
Yeah, oh, you can do it.
You can post on Instagram andthen you post on YouTube.
You can, you know, plan it.
Maybe you post on YouTube onemonth and a half those shots.
(46:33):
You know, you don't have to doit, daily, at least.
But you don't need a supercomplicated, expensive system
for it or software.
Now, at least you don't.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah and this is what I'm doing right now.
So we are recording the audio,but also the video, because I'm
thinking about I have beenthinking about for a while now
to also show this on YouTube,but I'm still not sure, because
that means if, even if I do mysolo things as well, people are
just looking at me in this frameand if it's a conversation,
(47:07):
that's different, that's that'slike more lively.
So what you just try it, youknow.
Yeah, so that's what I'm doing.
I'll just try it and see how itgoes, and I'll put some
lipstick in the drawer of mydesk and I'm ready to go.
So, yeah, trial and error andjust, and basically that goes.
And I've said this before.
(47:28):
One of the the coolest things II've learned is that, especially
when it comes to marketing,marketing in itself is a trial
and error what works for yourcustomer and of course, you can
do some pre-work and talk tothem and ask them questions, but
you still have to figure outwhat works.
And is the market changing orare the platforms changing?
(47:52):
Then you kind of need to feelinto that and change and do that
as well, like the kind of weirdapps and the weird things that
I've tried that I don't evenremember the name of, but some
things stick, some things don't.
But make sure that you haveenough energy and enough time to
do the things you know areeffective, but also where you
(48:14):
feel good and relaxed.
And if you're not great andgood and relaxed, then find that
peace where you can feel likethat and where you can be
authentic and it's totallypossible to be yourself and also
kind of step a little bitoutside of that comfort zone.
That's also part of running abusiness.
(48:35):
It's just part of the deal.
Yeah, so that was a total solorant.
Sometimes I get into it, yeah.
So, oh, my gosh, we talkedabout so much.
It also almost always goes alot to social media, but I think
(48:57):
that you have told us a storyof it's not just social media
and being mindful of the choicesyou make around your product,
your branding, your marketingchoices you make around your
product, your branding, yourmarketing, your contact with
your customers super importantand automating some things so
(49:18):
that you have a little bit moretime to do all of those things.
So last question do you use anyspecific planning systems, any
specific planning systemscalendars, journaling?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I don't know.
I don't like surprises.
I have to plan weeks ahead.
I use Notion for my dailybusiness, to do's, yeah, for
everything.
Notion is is all my life.
If I lose excellent access tonotion, I will cry.
(49:59):
Yeah, yeah, I use, yeah, I planI have a journal handwritten.
I also have notion um.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
so, and when you?
Is that more personal or alsofor business?
When you journal with pen andpaper, it's a mix, it's a mix
yeah, it's a mix.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Well, I don't use Google Calendar, I don't like
online calendars, but you know Iput in the journal.
But you know I put in thejournal.
I have my meetings yeah, I havethem in a journal, but I also
have them in my notion what theyweekly to do, where I tick a
(50:40):
box if it's done.
And in my journal I have I havelike meetings, business and
personal, but also family stuff.
You know, and and whatever myinspirational thoughts, whatever
ideas I have, I put them almostalways I first write them with
a with it on a paper and then Ibring them to notion where I
(51:03):
structure and organize better ifI really think we should stick
to it, if it's really an idea Iwant to do right now, but all my
plans, like social mediacontent plans, everything is, in
Notion, very organized.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I'm yeah, I force myself to becoming that person
and it's very useful, yeah, sofor me, obviously, I use Bullet
Journal and Notion as well, aswell as digital calendars,
because for things that I dowith my family and making sure
that things don't overlap withwork.
So it's a matter of choosingwhat works for what thing.
(51:47):
Sometimes pen and paper is thebest and there's nothing like it
, and sometimes you just want adigital thing that goes beep,
beep, you're on, yeah, yeah.
Thank you, anna.
Thank you so much.
I think I got great insights inhow you work and what are the
(52:07):
plans for the near future.
Anything new coming, anythingyou want to share with an
audience.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
We have always plans.
We do launches of new products,like not every.
I was like never months maybe,because it's always also a test
and trial, what you know, whatit will stick.
So we Christmas is coming Imean we have huge plans.
We even do a collaboration witha needle producer Ruben.
(52:35):
It is needles producer.
This will be big and it will besomething which people can do
as a gift.
You know, like they will haveour case which is sustainable,
beautiful, very practical, notlike you see on the market all
those you know, asia-made stuffand then with really good
(52:56):
needles inside.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
This sounds really exciting.
Okay, so people sign up for thenewsletter so you will not miss
the Instagram posts.
Sign up for the newsletter.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Sign up so go to the website, which is, and you can
also find that in the show yeah,go to instagram, and in my link
you know be your link there isa link to sign up for newsletter
not just hover on instagram.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Sign up for the newsletter as well, promise,
yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
That's where we have all the links.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Yeah, that's where you are sure people will not
miss, or a little bit more sure.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah, a little more sure.
Yeah, they shouldn't miss.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
And just be on Instagram for funsies, for
funsies, just for cool.
Thank you, anna.
Thank you so much for your time, your stories, and I hope to
see you in Berlin or somewhereelse again soon, oh yeah, we
will.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
We are planning a lot of markets next year, thank you
, thank you for having me here.
Thank you, saskia.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Hi, this is editing Saskia here.
It was so amazing to talk toAnna of Wunderzee and it's been
a while.
Actually, we recorded thisinterview the 5th of September,
which is more than a month ago.
I have been away to the UK inthe meantime and I've also been
(54:31):
struggling a lot, honestly, withmy energy levels.
I've had COVID and then I hadwhooping cough.
I didn't even know I could getthat anymore because I was
vaccinated as a kid, butapparently as an adult you still
can get it as a kid, butapparently as an adult you still
(54:54):
can get it and so I've beenbasically recovering and having
a very low energy and also kindof low mood, honestly.
But I'm getting there, I'mgetting back.
My voice is weird.
In some of this interview itsounds like I'm super emotional,
but I promise you I wasn't.
I just had a little bit of acreak in my voice because of you
.
It sounds like I'm superemotional, but I promise you I
wasn't.
I just had a little bit of acreak in my voice because of all
(55:15):
the coughing that I've beendoing for the last four months,
believe it or not.
So the summer break has been abit longer than usual and I
finally feel like I'm slowlygetting back to somewhat of a
normal energy level.
I feel like I've been reallysusceptible to all kinds of
(55:40):
things, like I've had colds ontop of it and everything.
So the last couple of monthsactually, I've been taking some
more time for me.
I've been crafting more, I'vebeen reading more and
prioritizing my health and mywell-being, because I'm not fun
(56:04):
to be around if I'm exhausted.
I can tell you that much.
But things are looking up.
Things are looking up and it'sa nice crispy fall autumn day
out here in Rotterdam and I'menjoying the weather and hanging
out in the garden with thechickens.
I've been knitting mytrachtenjacke for my husband and
(56:25):
it's endless rows of garterstitch.
I've been sewing ski pants formyself with my sewing teacher
because I mean, it's kind ofcomplicated but, I'm doing that.
What else have I been doing?
I've been spinning.
I also help Lisette fromSchappendraak at the Breidaere,
(56:49):
so I was there for a day Afterthat.
I was utterly exhausted.
I can tell you I am not used tostand for a whole day anymore.
Ever since I closed the shop,that kind of ability went down
quickly, and I'm doing it againthis Friday as I'm helping her
again at another festival.
(57:10):
It again this Friday as I'mhelping her again at another
festival.
Oh, and I wanted to mention thatAnna was talking about working
together with a needle producerand ever since we recorded this
interview, she has talked abouton Instagram what needle
producer this is, and I thoughtit was a big deal, so let me
share this with you.
The Wundersee needle cases nowalso come with Addi needles, so
(57:38):
it's a German brand, produced inGermany, really good quality,
and you can get a whole needleset with the Wundersee needle
case and the Addi needles.
So that's amazing.
Congratulations, anna.
Okay, I will talk to you nexttime, or no?
Yeah, I will.
(57:58):
I will be talking to you andhopefully you will be listening.
Thank you, bye.
When you hear the word marketing, do you
disassociate and run for thehills?
Do you bury your head in thesand and post another story on
Instagram and be done with it?
You are not the only one, butsharing what you have with
others spoiler, that's all it isisn't that hard.
In fact, even the experts arejust winging it.
(00:22):
So relax, spoiler winging it isthe definition of marketing.
At the end of May, I visitedthe Berlin Wedding Wool Weekend,
which had nothing to do withanyone's wedding.
It is actually a part of Berlinwhere the event was happening.
I met and interviewed somewonderful fiber business owners
(00:45):
there and I shared that reportin episode 84.
One of the businesses there wasWundersee and it is run by Anna
und Heiderun.
I'm saying Anna und Heiderun,Anna and Heiderun, and I
immediately spotted theirconsistent branding, their style
, their unique products.
Spotted their consistentbranding, their style, their
(01:07):
unique products.
And when I talked to Anna, Iwas intrigued by her answers and
found out she's got abackground in marketing that
explained a lot.
Her knowledge and insights areclearly visible from her website
, newsletters and social media.
Naturally, I scheduled a longerconversation with her to find
out more.
So how can we learn more aboutmarketing well, without getting
(01:41):
the heebie-jeebies?
Here's Anna, Anna, I'm so gladyou're here.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Welcome to the Patent Shift podcast.
Hi, Saskia.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Thank you for inviting me to your podcast.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Your brand just stood out to mein Berlin and I really had to
talk to you and learn a littlebit more than just the short
conversation we had in Berlin.
So how about we start off witha little bit of a kind of a
quick fire short questions sothat we can get to know you a
little bit?
Okay, okay, what has your daybeen like so far?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Very busy.
I usually need till very lateat night and then I wake up
something like 6.30 because Ihave to wake up my kids, bring
them to school, and then I startmy day, my work something like
(02:35):
9, 10 am, and I'll give you asentence with some empty parts
in it.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I'll first say the sentence and then I'll ask you
to fill in the parts.
So I help people dot dot, dotbecause, or so that they dot dot
, dot dot.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I help people to be proud of their craft, of their
knitting, of what they can dowith their hands.
I help people to start knittingbecause it's worth sharing.
(03:20):
You should be proud of what youdo with your hands, of what you
can need for yourself, andbecause knitting is really like
a meditation to me and it'sworth, yeah, trying to switch
off from your smartphone and dosome knitting.
You know, change theperspective and slow down, yeah,
(03:43):
slow down, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So is your business your main occupation, or do you
have family?
You mentioned your family.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yes, of course Family is my another occupation, but
in the context of business, I doWundersee well full-time, but I
also parallel to do my.
I have my clients.
Well, I have one client at themoment whom I support with
(04:12):
marketing, with social mediamarketing, right yes, um, that
immediately makes it so clearwhy you stand out so much.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Uh, how many years have you been in business?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
in this.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Wundersee business.
Well, almost a year, almost ayear, very short.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, very short, like from the moment we
registered our company.
It's been almost a year, but ofcourse we started, you know,
prototyping before, so maybe twoyears now, yes, right, yeah,
and so far, what do you consideryour biggest success?
(04:53):
oh well that we.
We started from scratch and weare it's, it's.
You know, we are not therewhere I imagined us or wished us
to be, but we are growingorganically.
At the moment, from months tomonths, we are growing in terms
of figures, um and that's, and,and that's my biggest
(05:18):
achievement, because it's notjust the figures for me, it's
the way I do it, the way I openup, I go online, I do social
media, I show myself, you know,and it's a lot about mindset as
well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Just quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
You say we because it's you and your mother-in-law,
right, my mother-in-law weregistered together as equal
partners, but we also have myhusband who supports us with our
B2B clients, right, and we alsohave a designer and a person
(05:57):
who supports me with the content, with the cut in the content.
So I have a small team.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Wow, yeah, so quickly .
A team already, but, like afamily, is a team in itself and
if they are willing toparticipate, there you are,
there's your team.
It's a great support.
Yeah, yeah, sounds amazing.
So we talked about your biggestsuccess.
I think that's a big successand anything that has been that
(06:29):
you can label a failure or, if afailure is a little bit too
much, a disappointment, so farthat you are willing to share.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh, I love sharing disappointments.
I love sharing disappointments.
Well, maybe the decision.
I made a decision at thebeginning of this year to do
Wundersee full time.
Like I said, I don't want tohave any more clients, you know,
(07:02):
I want to completelyconcentrate on our brand.
I don't see it as a failure,but I think it was maybe a bit
of a rash decision, because Iimagined us having a much more
um how do you say it?
Umsats in english revenue, yeah, yeah, but it's not the case.
And so I had to go back to myclients because I need to earn
something.
I'm not, you know, we are.
(07:23):
Everything we earn with funda,zv reinvest in this business.
I'm not, you know, everythingwe earn with Wunderse, we
reinvest in this business.
So I need my, you know, to livefor something, and that's why I
had to go back.
But it's, I think it's part ofthe process, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Oh, and your business is still young.
I mean yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, it's like.
That's why I'm saying it's notquite a, but I always rush
things and I want right now,everything what I dream of and
that's what I learned don't rush, yeah, it will be.
You will be there where youwant to be.
Just you know, do your thingconstantly, day to day, and you
(08:05):
will be there yeah, that's kindof.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
The next question is what?
What took you years to learn?
Well, maybe this didn't takeyou years to learn, but it's
definitely a big thing to learnto trust the process and take it
one step at a time.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yes, I I mean, I was, uh, I've been freelancing like
I'm doing this whole.
You know my own business sincethree years.
Before I was working in anoffice, I was working in a big
American company and I was anauditor or a revisor.
I was employed and I wasgetting my salary, and these
(08:42):
three years I'm freelancing andI'm doing marketing.
It's been so transformationaland the big thing I learned is
to trust the process, not torush the things.
Yeah, this was my big learning.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Is there any part of runningyour business so far that you
absolutely, absolutely adore andlove and want to do all of it
all of the time?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, yeah, I mean creating a product, doing those
all cute, beautiful things forour shop.
Yeah, the wool, the products weproduce ourselves or the
products we buy somewhere elseand then sell in our shop all
this cute stuff.
Yeah, I really like it notcreating this also in my house,
(09:34):
where I live with my family.
It's a beautiful thing we didinside.
That's what I love.
That's what I love creatingthis atmosphere, this coziness
we say in the Netherlands,gezellig and that's what I do in
my business on our online shop.
(09:55):
It's very aesthetical and that'swhat brings me a lot of joy
packing the product, doing itall really beautiful nicely, so
that the person who unpacks itlike wow, and like this is so
beautiful, and then you have abig, a better mood.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
You're like you're chill up and, yeah, this yeah,
it's an experience, and a verypositive experience for you as
well as the customer by thesound of it.
Last quick question and thenwe'll just start conversing um
anything you absolutely do notlike about running a business of
(10:37):
course.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Of course you have so much like accounting.
I mean, even though I used tobe an auditor.
There are things you must do.
You, you know we receive ingermany, we receive, especially
when you just registered.
There are things, you haveinsurance.
There are so many things youhave to deal, like all those
(10:58):
bureaucratic papers, accounting,doing the books and yeah, this
all.
Yeah, I have to do it and nomatter how I feel I have to do
it and that's and I do it.
You know, I like to do it whenI'm in a mood for it, yeah, but
you have to do it till thequarter end and it doesn't
(11:21):
matter if you're sick or tiredor you want to need.
You have to do these things andthat's what I hate.
The questions that I receivesometimes from the others who
dream of doing a small businessis like anna, how did you
register?
You know, like those, yeah,yeah, those you know, especially
in germany.
You know, because you, if youmake a mistake, they will not be
(11:44):
nice to you.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
No, no, but that's why I think it's I mean for me
personally and I think for a lotof people, especially if you
get that like tight feeling inyour throat when you talk about,
when we talk about these things, one of the best things that
you can do is, as soon as youcan afford to pay somebody to do
it, just to hand it over andlet somebody take care of it.
(12:10):
That one knows what they'redoing and two doesn't mind doing
it because they are gettingpaid for it.
But almost all of the time youhave to do these things yourself
in the beginning, and of courseI did and I of course I know
what to do, but I feel like I'mnot the person to teach you
(12:30):
those kinds of things, and thatis somewhere else I can do the
marketing, the branding, thecommunication, the soulful
connection to what you need, allof that.
And uh, I leave.
Uh, I leave the rest to.
But we, we do talk about money,but in other ways yeah, yeah,
(12:50):
but.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
But.
But bookkeeping is anyway whereit depends on the country
you're located in yes,definitely, that's also a big
part of it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Absolutely, yeah, um, so well, I think we got to know
you a little bit from this.
We know your likes, yourperhaps dislikes, how long
you've been on this path, thefact that you're doing pretty
well and your wishes for thefuture.
You still have enough to wishfor.
What we didn't mention is whatis the unique thing about
(13:23):
Wundersee?
What do you offer yourcustomers?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
well, we, we, we want to sorry maybe it sounds a bit
big but modernize, transformthis market, because I'm
personally I'm tired of productswhich, yeah, which I just made
just to be sold.
Like plastic, you know, wool,that is mainstream.
(13:49):
Um, some accessories forknitting, that I just not like,
not nice, they just the.
The market is flooded with with, with stuff which you know,
like if you work on amazon, likeyou will got this project bags
or something you like, what Iwill never want it for myself.
(14:12):
I want something nice, I want,I want to, you know, get it out
of my bag when I'm in a trainmeeting and I want to have it a
nice thing and be proud of itand show it, have something
elegant, um, and not some crapso I'm hearing you say uh,
design material, uh, theconscious thinking of what you
(14:40):
pick out with what you need,because we, we don't.
We also we started selling woolin our shop, but not just any
mainstream wool.
We really we really pick thebrands we will sell.
Like we have an italian wool,that is really something special
, because I want you know I'mlearning as well myself where
(15:02):
this wool is coming from and Ialso wish that the others would
also think okay, where is myyeah, where are my materials
coming from?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Okay, and so the main product that most people know
you for the type of products areneedle cases and accessories,
and they're made of quite quitean exceptional, interesting
material.
Can you tell us, talk to us alittle bit about that?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
yes, the material is called um leather paper in
german.
If we compare it to the liliesjeans label yeah, I think they
also.
They do it now from thismaterial as well.
It's not leather anymore, it'sright leather paper, so it's
(15:51):
really a stable, robust material.
You can wash it in, even in awashing machine, but it's not
leather, so it's vegan and it'salso sustainable.
And it's sustainable because webuy this material in Germany in
a small fabric which you knowthey would otherwise burn it
(16:14):
because it has some smallimperfections and they cannot
ship it to their final customers.
But we buy this paper withsmall imperfections.
We cut our products, you know,without, of course, those
imperfections, but we save thispaper, which is an amazing
material, yeah, and we produceour, our knitting needle
(16:38):
organizers out of it again,right, like we are trying to not
to create more damage with ourbusiness where we can yeah, and
the look of them.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Of course, people, we will.
We'll give you all the contactinformation.
You can go ahead.
And actually, why don't youmention your instagram right now
?
Because people that arelistening might want to just
have a little bit of a view asthey're listening yeah, well, my
I'm that's my name Anna, pointpoint alerts.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So that's all for our Instagram, because I'm sort of
a personal brand behind ourbrand and that's why we that's
also where our business isrunning on my page, on my
account yeah, so that's uh a n?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
n?
A dot a l l e r s exactly.
Thank you okay.
That's it okay.
So, going back to the look ofthem, I would describe them as,
um, almost like an origamifolding technique, and when you
are looking at a shape like atriangle and then you fold it
(17:52):
open, in one movement it becomesa rectangle, and the rectangle
on the left-hand side has acircle stitched on it, and also
on the right-hand side, and thecircles are stitched with
crosses, and so that gives youlittle pockets where you can put
in your circular needles andalso your sock needles I think
(18:16):
they'll fit as well and some,maybe some small items, and you
fold it together and thennothing drops out exactly and
you can have this.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
You can.
You can have it on yourbookshelf, you know it's it
stands it stands upside, andthen you have the different
colors.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
So there's uh, paper, brown, snazzy, uh almost
lacquered lilac, which I'mespecially wearing my lilac
t-shirt today, because it's onbrand and what else do you have?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
we have black, we have gray.
Uh, then the the best sellingcolor is, of course, natural is
the neutral one.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
yeah, yeah, cool, um yeah.
So that's definitely one ofyour unique selling points, is
that those products yeah, theuniqueness of them, the
innovative design is yes,definitely.
There's nothing like that on themarket Not that I've seen in
(19:21):
any way and the way they'reproduced and the way they look,
all of it together makes for aunique product.
I love them.
It's great.
It is because and this kind oflands us into the realm of
values it is because I have somany needle cases that I would
have to throw away reallywell-functioning items that I do
(19:44):
love.
Otherwise I would just if I'dhave crap or things I really
didn't like, or if I was readyfor an upgrade, I would totally
make a bookcase with thembecause they're so pretty and
useful and great.
So, values you already talked alittle bit about thinking about
the environment.
(20:05):
Is there anything about yourbusiness that you particularly
are?
What are particular things thatyou think are important in
running a business, in dealingwith customers?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
yes, it's.
It's a good question, likebecause we are all competing, to
be honest, we are all competingwith amazon, right?
Honest, we are all competingwith Amazon, right?
Mm-hmm, all small.
So we have to be personal, wehave to bear for our customers,
because I cannot write to amazonand ask my questions, but my
(20:40):
customers can write to me and Iwill always help them to pick up
the wool for the project orpick up the right case for the
needles.
So this is the most importantfor small business to be like,
reachable, and that's why wehave, we try to have a telephone
number, email everywhere andcommunicate everywhere you can
(21:01):
contact us and that's whatpeople do write us an email, ask
us we are there for you, yeah,and and you're also very visible
on your website and on socialmedia.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I think that I think that's one of the interesting
things, that I want to go alittle bit deeper to talk to you
about this, because what Iexperience with my clients a lot
of the time is they are too shyto show their faces and what
you then get is going back tothe Amazon thing is that you
land on a website and you don'tsee your face and you just see
(21:39):
products and it feels verybusinessy and you miss the kind
of connection that you couldhave made with your customers,
and I think you're doing areally good job with that.
But you're also heavy, heavy onthe social media.
What would you say to peoplewho are not comfortable in being
on social media as much?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Well, what helps me is doing it together with my
mother-in-law.
She's one of the shy person.
She didn't want to do videoswith me and we did this together
and I was supporting her and ithelped me also.
Well, it's sort of I had to doit because, if you know, if
(22:25):
she's shy, there is somebodyfrom us who needs to be a face,
who needs to be there because,exactly like it's a small
business, this is the biggestand one of the yeah, one of the
biggest advantages you have isthat you are a person and that's
why people buy from you,because you are there.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
So you have to show yourself wow, and I think you
can do it, and there's a wholespectrum from not showing
yourself to being a full contentcreator.
There's everything in betweenfind your format exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I never like.
I started YouTube a couple ofmonths ago and I never thought
it would be so easy for me.
You know there is anothersocial media like LinkedIn,
which is a text.
It's it not really for usrelevant for businesses like us,
it's more, you know, b2b.
But I was also on LinkedIn fora while for my freelancing and
(23:23):
it was really difficult for mebecause it's a lot of text.
It's not my format.
I like a video.
I just sit down and I chat andI talk, yeah, and then just
working on my mindset, workingwith the coach who helped me to
believe in me that you know I'mworse, what I'm telling and
(23:43):
whatever barriers I have in mymind, I worked on them.
So it was also a process for meto, step by step, open up and
now I do YouTube and I'm like,wow, I really like it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So did you decide on working with a coach for that
reason specifically?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Well, I was freelancing and I changed
basically my profession fromauditing to marketing and I had
a lot of like, if I could mindfucks, yeah, you can say that.
Yeah, a lot of things like I'mnot good enough.
Yeah, I changed.
I'm like, I'm not asexperienced as anybody else on
(24:31):
the market.
A lot of things in my mind.
That's why I went to the coach.
But you know, working on thosethings, you of course clear out
some other mindfucks you had.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Helps you to go to be visible on social media.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, I loved working with a coach.
I mean, it's an investment, butyou are investing in yourself
and in your business and itdoesn't have to be like super,
super expensive.
But I think sometimes we forgetthat in order to make money,
sometimes you also have toinvest money, not always, but,
and there's other ways to goabout it, like good chats with
(25:13):
friends will help you as well,as long as you're willing to
take their advice yes, yes,sharing with your family your
difficulties, because my husband, he was always, he's still
telling me Anna, you can do it,uh, and you know she's like,
he's showing me the things I cando, good, and it helps.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
It helps.
It also, like you know, givesme confidence.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And if you know Woundersy and Anna and what she
does online, you would never Iwould have never thought that
you asked for help with this,because this is not how you come
across.
You come across as genuine andas a loving, kind person with a
lot of feeling for aestheticsand enjoying what you do.
(26:08):
That's what I'm seeing, and I'malso seeing somebody who takes
a lot of effort in selling theirproducts in a way that kind of
feels good to you.
It's not like yucky selling,but you're definitely selling
your product.
You're not selling yourlifestyle and hoping that
somebody will buy your product,and I think some people get a
(26:31):
little bit confused about it.
Their whole idea of marketing isjust having an Instagram
account and, of course, choosingyour channel is one step and
then figuring out how much ofyou you want to share, because
what I said earlier on thatscale from not being visible at
(26:53):
all to being a full contentcreator.
You cannot be a full contentcreator because that's a job in
itself.
You have to have enough time todo the things and make the
decisions that bring yourbusiness forward, and that's
such a bulk, such a it is Likeeven you know, even making the
stories on instagram is a workthat you have to schedule in
(27:17):
your house you have to scheduletime for it.
It's not like you see, you knowand stop, if you're, if your
block of work time is over, anddo something else.
Yeah, I'm seeing your eyes go.
Yeah, I should do more of thatlike, like you mean, block the
time if you, if you, yeah, yeah,it's just or say, like Monday
(27:41):
is uh content creation day andthe rest of the week, um, maybe
I will react to whatever I haveposted on Wednesday for half an
hour and then I'll do the otherstuff.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, I like every day I have a time scheduled for
stories.
Or if I know I have some newproducts and we have to, you
know, do the storytellingannounce the launch, then I
definitely schedule the storiesand I schedule like maybe even
one hour, because it's not, youknow.
(28:15):
You see that my stories and itseems so easy and easygoing and
natural, but it really takes metime and really takes me effort
sometimes to do them, you know,because I'm a woman and I have
my circles, you know, I have myyeah, yeah, so, um, and I also
(28:36):
schedule, like today's aThursday, and I and I, on
Thursdays, I do my YouTubevideos and I schedule them.
Uh, and I stick to the schedule.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I do that.
I need that too.
I need it just just for thebasic fact of um doing a little
bit more effort on putting onlipstick and having freshly
washed hair, all of that.
If I had to do it on the goevery single time, I try that,
(29:06):
but then I don't feel great.
Or I feel great because I'mlike I'm supernatural and it's
fine.
People can see me like rightout of bed, but I don't always
feel like that.
So it's kind of finding thebalance of and this is the work
around boundaries how much ofyourself are you willing to give
?
How much is self?
(29:27):
How much is business?
Where do you plan it?
And with all of that togetheryou can find a balance that
works for you and that works foryour business.
But it's it's consciousthinking, yes, it's conscious
thinking.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It's constant working .
Yeah, just this, constantlydoing it, like from day to day,
sticking to your schedule andnot dropping the ball.
You know, this is what.
Yeah, this is what brings youthere where you want to be.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, and it's yeah, that that has been an
interesting, um, an interestingthing for me.
We talked about it in thecommunity with our monthly, we
have a monthly uh wins and woesuh meetup where we talk about
our wins and our woes.
And, um, I talked about thismonth.
(30:22):
Um, I've been having a hardtime showing up in my
newsletters, being there everyother week, uh, because I've not
been fit, I've been sick andit's been hard.
And how much are you going tobeat yourself up about it and
how much can you just keep thata little bit more loosely in
(30:44):
your hand?
Because all the marketing gurusonline say you have to show up
consistently, otherwise you'lllose.
Consistently, otherwise you'lllose.
I'm a little bit less strictabout that, not just because, uh
, I'm in a position where I havesome things with my health, but
also for everybody else it'snot healthy.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean, like just this week, I always I also
committed doing a newsletteronce per week.
It usually comes out on Friday,but also this week I did my
wisdom tooth.
I know no, but it's alsosomething complicated yeah so
that's why this week I said,okay, um, I, I skipped the
(31:27):
newsletter tomorrow.
Yeah, this week, because, yes,I have yesterday I had to take
care of myself and I can't today, you know, do the plan like I
can't jump over my head.
So I do the newsletter nextweek and that's okay.
It's the same, like you do withsport, with, you know, with the
(31:48):
diet.
It's the same process.
You just you commit to yourself, you do it, you try to keep it
constantly, but it's okay if you, if you, one time you just you
skip it.
You know you have a reason.
You're human, so you go nextweek.
It's not like the way ofthinking where you oh, my
(32:10):
newsletter, I'm doing it forthree months and I still have 10
subscribers Okay, whatever, I'mnot going to do it.
And I still have 10 subscribersokay, whatever, I'm not gonna
do it anymore.
No, keep going.
But think of how can you getyour subscribe.
You know the new subscribers.
What can you do else?
Because probably what you'redoing is just not maybe the
right thing, but don't you know,don't stop it completely,
(32:31):
because it's just not workingright now, and so when you make
your content for social media, Imostly have seen Instagram and
I've also seen one YouTube video.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
When people land there, how do you direct what's
the next place you want them togo there?
How do you direct what's thenext place you want them to go?
Are you trying to sell them, togo and buy something on the
spot?
Are you, do you want them tocome back to instagram?
Do you want them to sign up forthe newsletter?
(33:10):
Do you have thoughts, ideasabout that?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
yes, and it's well.
It's not it, it depends on the.
It's really well when we talkabout social media.
First, you know, for me it's Ihave, like now we are on
Instagram, we are on Pinterest,like we are pinning every day,
we are on youtube with a weeklyvideo.
(33:35):
On youtube, instagram, we dodaily, we do all say newsletter,
and also we do a blog like onan online shop, um and that, and
, and I also want to do linkedinand I want to do youtube in
russian, and so I think that youhave to be everywhere, like you
have to develop your socialmedia step by step so that you
(33:58):
are really, if you want morecustomers, you have to be on a
lot of platforms, and then it'slike it's a constant movement
around the channels that we have.
The main goal is to bring themto our online shop.
So it's either from Instagram,from Reel, from Stories or from
(34:20):
YouTube, it doesn't matter, butthe goal is to have traffic in
our online shop.
Right, do you?
Do you?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
know where most of your customers come from.
And let's not forget the, thefairs and the festivals and the
markets oh yeah, the markets.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
We do as well.
Uh, and we, you know, alsothere is and and when we go to
the market, of course, we sellon the spot, for now it's
actually the best workingplatform for us to be, that's
market.
That's where we sell the most.
But then I also inform peoplethat we have Instagram and I
bring them to the Instagram andthen to the online shop.
(35:01):
Like, I try to get themsubscribed to any of our
channels, from where they go toour online shop so that they
stay with us for a longer time.
They go to our online shop sothat they stay with us for a
longer time.
So we don't have to get all thenew people every time, but we
nurture the people that wealready have so that they come
all over and over to us.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
And why not put the emphasis on a newsletter so that
they don't directly have to buy, but they're in your kind of
bubble, a little bit more closeto you, a little bit more
information, compared toInstagram, where they give you a
little heart and they love itand they give a little heart and
(35:43):
then they move on.
Is there anything?
Do you have any plans orthoughts around that?
You mean focus, rather havefocus on one platform on getting
people to your newsletter, sosay you're on a fair or market
to to first of all get them onthe newsletter rather than focus
(36:04):
first on instagram like for me,I started on instagram, like my
whole journey started oninstagram like six years ago.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
So for me, instagram is a key.
That's what I do the best.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, you're comfortable.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And I know how to how with my stories and with my
storytelling.
How, then, to you know from thestories to bring people where I
want them to go.
So for me, instagram is like astarting point and when we're on
the market, yes, I try to bringpeople to Instagram, not to our
(36:43):
newsletter, because, from myexperience, subscribing to a
newsletter takes you much moreeffort than subscribing to
somebody's instagram, becausenewsletter is a bigger
commitment, you know you haveemails in your mailbox.
Not everybody wanted.
But to subscribe to instagramis much less commitment and I
(37:07):
know how to bring them frominstagram to newsletter like.
Like you know, I accumulatethis.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
And then I do a drop and I bring them to newsletter
and I see a race of mysubscribers on my newsletter
Like because I plan newsletter.
I think, okay, what can I like?
Which content I do fornewsletter which sort of
motivates Instagram followers togo and subscribe to my
(37:35):
newsletter?
So that that's, that's my wayof strategy of thinking.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, that's what I was after.
What the?
What you're thinking and yourstrategy behind it is yeah,
sounds great, yeah, so, um, haveyou started to measure things?
Like, as I was saying before,do you know where most of your
customers come from?
Do you know if they arereturning customers?
(38:02):
How much of that kind of thingdo you do?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
well, and yeah, we still do not enough, I think.
But and it's also not alwayseasy to track with new
guidelines, are you?
We don't always see in our shopwhere the person is coming from
and we see a lot of like.
If I compare, if I takepinterest and I see the outgoing
clicks from pinterest and thenI compare them with the incoming
clicks on our online shop, thenumber will not match, don't
match Like, really, it's likenot even close.
(38:39):
So it's really difficult totrack.
But we, what we do, we I wish Iwas doing it on a weekly basis,
but I don't.
I can't do it.
It's not like.
I track the numbers on on ouronline shop and also I check
this google how do you call iton google?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I forgot to google.
Yeah, but see, but I'm notdoing it.
But they're making it socomplicated and then they're
changing everything around likeand, and that's why I think a
lot of small businesses arescared of tracking numbers.
But it could be super simple.
It could be you've had afestival then.
(39:19):
How much more did your sales goup in the next few weeks, or
not?
Did you get more newsletters,subscribers, those kinds of
things can be simple to track,but tell you a lot yeah, yeah,
like on on the scale we we donow we can it's called google
analytics google analytics, buton a scale like we are now, it's
(39:41):
not, you know that biggerfigures, that I.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I know where the what works, where the people are
coming from, and some I, and wehave a lot of returning
customers because I know themall from Instagram.
I see them all over andsometimes our Shopify shows us
as well.
This one is coming from YouTubeon.
Yeah, so I do.
(40:05):
I do track the numbers on ourShopify and I have an Excel
where I record them.
That's actually what I want todo weekly.
Like you record the revenue,you record how much you spend on
your ads.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, don't forget about those apps.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You record whatever else you do, like how much you
spend on Pinterest, how much youspend on YouTube or on
Instagram, and then how muchrevenue you got.
Then, yeah, you track those.
This simple table I have inExcel.
All the other figures I haveeither in my head because I know
the business, because it's notat that big scale, or I check
(40:48):
them in Shopify.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, yeah, so I also have.
This is, by the way, not anadvertisement.
I should really reach out tothem because I'm always Shopify,
shopify.
I've had Shopify website foryears and I've been very happy
with it.
When I was in my shop, I alsostarted to use the POS point of
(41:12):
sale system and whenever I havea moment, I will try to convince
my clients that when you're ona market and you have a website
that can record, you can selland get it out of your website
at the same moment and recordwhat happens.
(41:34):
It just blows my mind that not alot of people use that, that
they're in their hotel roomswriting down what they've sold
so that then the next week orsomething, they can process it.
Well, all of that can be fullyautomated.
Process it well, all of thatcan be fully automated.
And of course, it costs alittle bit money, but it takes
(41:55):
away so much of the work andthat kind of thinking where you
think about working smarter and,as you're saying, you have this
whole marketing mix of allthese different platforms that
you.
It's a lot of time, it's a lotof commitment.
So how much of automation, evenAI, do you use in your business
(42:21):
?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
oh, I use AI for texts.
I use daily for all my content,everywhere I useplexity, if I
can mention them.
I love this AI and I also likenow we are just finished
automating our B2B process, howour B2B customers buy from us,
(42:45):
because before it was verymanual and now I know an IT
person I know why people arestruggling with it.
He used like five softwareprograms to build this
automation from us.
But now it's a portal where ourB2B customers log in and then
they see our product catalog andthen they can place an order
(43:07):
all automated.
And then they log in again andthey see a placed order and then
they see an invoice.
All that before was donemanually and also all the orders
.
We are keep tracking them nowin another portal, like we are
building our crm system.
Basically, you know yeah, yeahyeah b2b crm system.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Those are big words, people.
B2b crm system.
B2 are big words, people.
B2b CRM system.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
B2B is when we sell to our end customers via our
online shop, but we also sell toother shops, like yarn shops.
We sell our products our cases.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yes, thank you.
And CRM, what is it?
Customer RelationshipManagement.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yes, drm.
What is it?
Customer RelationshipManagement?
Yes, like for us, it's where wekeep track of our B2B customers
, like whom we want to acquire,like whom we already contacted
and send an offer, whom wealready have, and we also keep a
track there of the orders likepro customer.
You know we don't have thatmany yet, um, but it's.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
That's the best thing about it, if you're willing to
learn new things within yourbusiness and you start when you
don't have, when the need is nothuge then you can slowly grow
into it.
And the other way around it canwork as well.
I I have canceled my CRM systembecause it was doing too many
things.
I didn't need it, so I just putit into a Notion page.
(44:38):
And another thing is mynewsletter system.
I was totally invested ingetting the best newsletter
system and it was so complicatedthat I got it, but it wasn't
fun anymore.
So for that reason and this isa little bit of an advert I have
(45:00):
a little discount for you inthe show notes.
But that's the reason why Iwent to Flowdesk because it
looks great, it's easy to use,they have everything you need
and sometimes you don't needanything more complicated.
But what happens is that peopleget intimidated and they freeze
(45:23):
and they think nevermind, I'lljust do Instagram.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, and I suffer from it as well.
I, I quite.
You know, whenever somethingnew I want to start, I so much
over complicate it in my headthat, when, and you know, like,
okay, that's enough, anna, youjust start right now and just
start like whatever, just dowith one simple step.
Yeah, start doing it.
(45:50):
And I'm like my God, why areyou overcomplicating it?
Exactly exactly, and you askedme at the beginning about my
failures, and that's sort of oneof them.
At the beginning, I was also.
You know, I get the best, thebest social media system so that
when I post the content it getposted everywhere, you know,
(46:12):
like butterflies.
And then it costed me a lot ofmoney per month and at some
point I cancelled it because,like, anna, come on, you you're
not there yet.
Yeah, oh, you can do it.
You can post on Instagram andthen you post on YouTube.
You can, you know, plan it.
Maybe you post on YouTube onemonth and a half those shots.
(46:33):
You know, you don't have to doit, daily, at least.
But you don't need a supercomplicated, expensive system
for it or software.
Now, at least you don't.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah and this is what I'm doing right now.
So we are recording the audio,but also the video, because I'm
thinking about I have beenthinking about for a while now
to also show this on YouTube,but I'm still not sure, because
that means if, even if I do mysolo things as well, people are
just looking at me in this frameand if it's a conversation,
(47:07):
that's different, that's that'slike more lively.
So what you just try it, youknow.
Yeah, so that's what I'm doing.
I'll just try it and see how itgoes, and I'll put some
lipstick in the drawer of mydesk and I'm ready to go.
So, yeah, trial and error andjust, and basically that goes.
And I've said this before.
(47:28):
One of the the coolest things II've learned is that, especially
when it comes to marketing,marketing in itself is a trial
and error what works for yourcustomer and of course, you can
do some pre-work and talk tothem and ask them questions, but
you still have to figure outwhat works.
And is the market changing orare the platforms changing?
(47:52):
Then you kind of need to feelinto that and change and do that
as well, like the kind of weirdapps and the weird things that
I've tried that I don't evenremember the name of, but some
things stick, some things don't.
But make sure that you haveenough energy and enough time to
do the things you know areeffective, but also where you
(48:14):
feel good and relaxed.
And if you're not great andgood and relaxed, then find that
peace where you can feel likethat and where you can be
authentic and it's totallypossible to be yourself and also
kind of step a little bitoutside of that comfort zone.
That's also part of running abusiness.
(48:35):
It's just part of the deal.
Yeah, so that was a total solorant.
Sometimes I get into it, yeah.
So, oh, my gosh, we talkedabout so much.
It also almost always goes alot to social media, but I think
(48:57):
that you have told us a storyof it's not just social media
and being mindful of the choicesyou make around your product,
your branding, your marketingchoices you make around your
product, your branding, yourmarketing, your contact with
your customers super importantand automating some things so
(49:18):
that you have a little bit moretime to do all of those things.
So last question do you use anyspecific planning systems, any
specific planning systemscalendars, journaling?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I don't know.
I don't like surprises.
I have to plan weeks ahead.
I use Notion for my dailybusiness, to do's, yeah, for
everything.
Notion is is all my life.
If I lose excellent access tonotion, I will cry.
(49:59):
Yeah, yeah, I use, yeah, I planI have a journal handwritten.
I also have notion um.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
so, and when you?
Is that more personal or alsofor business?
When you journal with pen andpaper, it's a mix, it's a mix
yeah, it's a mix.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Well, I don't use Google Calendar, I don't like
online calendars, but you know Iput in the journal.
But you know I put in thejournal.
I have my meetings yeah, I havethem in a journal, but I also
have them in my notion what theyweekly to do, where I tick a
(50:40):
box if it's done.
And in my journal I have I havelike meetings, business and
personal, but also family stuff.
You know, and and whatever myinspirational thoughts, whatever
ideas I have, I put them almostalways I first write them with
a with it on a paper and then Ibring them to notion where I
(51:03):
structure and organize better ifI really think we should stick
to it, if it's really an idea Iwant to do right now, but all my
plans, like social mediacontent plans, everything is, in
Notion, very organized.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I'm yeah, I force myself to becoming that person
and it's very useful, yeah, sofor me, obviously, I use Bullet
Journal and Notion as well, aswell as digital calendars,
because for things that I dowith my family and making sure
that things don't overlap withwork.
So it's a matter of choosingwhat works for what thing.
(51:47):
Sometimes pen and paper is thebest and there's nothing like it
, and sometimes you just want adigital thing that goes beep,
beep, you're on, yeah, yeah.
Thank you, anna.
Thank you so much.
I think I got great insights inhow you work and what are the
(52:07):
plans for the near future.
Anything new coming, anythingyou want to share with an
audience.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
We have always plans.
We do launches of new products,like not every.
I was like never months maybe,because it's always also a test
and trial, what you know, whatit will stick.
So we Christmas is coming Imean we have huge plans.
We even do a collaboration witha needle producer Ruben.
(52:35):
It is needles producer.
This will be big and it will besomething which people can do
as a gift.
You know, like they will haveour case which is sustainable,
beautiful, very practical, notlike you see on the market all
those you know, asia-made stuffand then with really good
(52:56):
needles inside.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
This sounds really exciting.
Okay, so people sign up for thenewsletter so you will not miss
the Instagram posts.
Sign up for the newsletter.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Sign up so go to the website, which is, and you can
also find that in the show yeah,go to instagram, and in my link
you know be your link there isa link to sign up for newsletter
not just hover on instagram.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Sign up for the newsletter as well, promise,
yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
That's where we have all the links.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Yeah, that's where you are sure people will not
miss, or a little bit more sure.
Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah, a little more sure.
Yeah, they shouldn't miss.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
And just be on Instagram for funsies, for
funsies, just for cool.
Thank you, anna.
Thank you so much for your time, your stories, and I hope to
see you in Berlin or somewhereelse again soon, oh yeah, we
will.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
We are planning a lot of markets next year, thank you
, thank you for having me here.
Thank you, saskia.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Hi, this is editing Saskia here.
It was so amazing to talk toAnna of Wunderzee and it's been
a while.
Actually, we recorded thisinterview the 5th of September,
which is more than a month ago.
I have been away to the UK inthe meantime and I've also been
(54:31):
struggling a lot, honestly, withmy energy levels.
I've had COVID and then I hadwhooping cough.
I didn't even know I could getthat anymore because I was
vaccinated as a kid, butapparently as an adult you still
can get it as a kid, butapparently as an adult you still
(54:54):
can get it and so I've beenbasically recovering and having
a very low energy and also kindof low mood, honestly.
But I'm getting there, I'mgetting back.
My voice is weird.
In some of this interview itsounds like I'm super emotional,
but I promise you I wasn't.
I just had a little bit of acreak in my voice because of you
.
It sounds like I'm superemotional, but I promise you I
wasn't.
I just had a little bit of acreak in my voice because of all
(55:15):
the coughing that I've beendoing for the last four months,
believe it or not.
So the summer break has been abit longer than usual and I
finally feel like I'm slowlygetting back to somewhat of a
normal energy level.
I feel like I've been reallysusceptible to all kinds of
(55:40):
things, like I've had colds ontop of it and everything.
So the last couple of monthsactually, I've been taking some
more time for me.
I've been crafting more, I'vebeen reading more and
prioritizing my health and mywell-being, because I'm not fun
(56:04):
to be around if I'm exhausted.
I can tell you that much.
But things are looking up.
Things are looking up and it'sa nice crispy fall autumn day
out here in Rotterdam and I'menjoying the weather and hanging
out in the garden with thechickens.
I've been knitting mytrachtenjacke for my husband and
(56:25):
it's endless rows of garterstitch.
I've been sewing ski pants formyself with my sewing teacher
because I mean, it's kind ofcomplicated but, I'm doing that.
What else have I been doing?
I've been spinning.
I also help Lisette fromSchappendraak at the Breidaere,
(56:49):
so I was there for a day Afterthat.
I was utterly exhausted.
I can tell you I am not used tostand for a whole day anymore.
Ever since I closed the shop,that kind of ability went down
quickly, and I'm doing it againthis Friday as I'm helping her
again at another festival.
(57:10):
It again this Friday as I'mhelping her again at another
festival.
Oh, and I wanted to mention thatAnna was talking about working
together with a needle producerand ever since we recorded this
interview, she has talked abouton Instagram what needle
producer this is, and I thoughtit was a big deal, so let me
share this with you.
The Wundersee needle cases nowalso come with Addi needles, so
(57:38):
it's a German brand, produced inGermany, really good quality,
and you can get a whole needleset with the Wundersee needle
case and the Addi needles.
So that's amazing.
Congratulations, anna.
Okay, I will talk to you nexttime, or no?
Yeah, I will.
(57:58):
I will be talking to you andhopefully you will be listening.
Thank you, bye.
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