February 28, 2025 • 40 mins
SUMMARY
Social media keeps shifting, but email? It’s still one of the most reliable ways to connect with your audience—without fighting algorithms or creepy tech billionaires. In this episode, I talk about how I’m simplifying my own email strategy and how you can make email work for you. From essential sequences to making email feel fun instead of overwhelming, this is your permission slip to ditch the stress and start using email in a way that fits your business and your life. Need help? I also introduce the Email Power Hour—a focused session to get your email strategy on track.
FULL SHOW-NOTES WITH TAKEAWAYS + LINKS
BEST QUOTE FROM THE EPISODE
“Find an email strategy that works for you. If it’s not fun or easy, you won’t do it.” – Saskia de Feijter
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, welcome back.
This is Saskia De Feiter atPattern Shift Podcast.
This is actually editing Saskiacoming in to give you a clearer
intro than I initially recorded.
I'm away on a holiday and I'mediting the episode in our
cottage, and I noticed that Iwas doing a lot of yapping, and
(00:24):
so I just wanted to start offwith saying what this actually
is about.
This is typically a Saskiastyle episode, so, just right
from the start, letting you knowthat this is going to be about
building a better strategyaround your connection to your
(00:45):
audience and using your emaillist to do it.
I'm going into different stepsin how you are going to do that.
The easy way, the really,really easy way.
So grab submitting and I hopeyou'll enjoy my yapping.
And if you want to learn aboutthis a little bit more
(01:06):
constructively, then please goto patternshiftfm, find the blog
, and there's going to be a blogpost there that has everything
in a kind of a step-by-step.
So the podcast is all about thekind of chaotic me, and then
I'll also offer you the reallyorganized part of myself that is
(01:28):
also there and that will helpyou to get more of a structural
view on this.
Well, let's get on with theshow and have fun.
Hey there and welcome to PatternShift, the podcast where
creative business owners likeyou learn to build a business
(01:50):
that's inspiring, fun andsustainable.
I'm Saskia de Veyter, abusiness strategist, guide maker
and all-around creativeentrepreneur.
I help business owners in theneedle and fiber craft world,
just like you, navigate allthose icky words, branding,
marketing and strategy in a waythat actually works for your
(02:12):
creative brain.
Here we talk about everythingfrom running a values-driven
business to simplifying yourmarketing without burning out.
Whether you're just startingout or looking to refine your
business, you're in the rightplace, so settle in, grab a cup
of tea, coffee or, you know,bruchladich you do you and let's
(02:34):
get started.
I think we ended up in a space,in a spot, where we have been
feeling uneasy about socialmedia for a while now, but we
don't want to miss out on makingconnections, having our friends
there, all of that.
You can do that if you want to,but we need to be realistic.
(02:59):
Like it's changed, right?
There's some really creepypeople that are pulling the
shots.
They were there before, butmore and more, we are aware of
what that means and how actuallyhow creepy they are.
I'm just going to offer youalternatives, and I'm going to
(03:20):
talk to you about doing thingsthat you've probably already
done before, but you really needto do them a little bit better,
a little bit more organized,have a little bit of a strategy
in mind things that you've beenputting to the side and I think
today, now, is the time to makethat change.
(03:44):
Our small businesses are smalland we're just like tiny little
parts of this whole machine, butwe still have some power, and
that is the power of consciouschoice and not letting yourself
get overwhelmed by where to gonext, because that's what I'm
(04:06):
here for.
That's where other businessowners come in and we can do our
own thing and do it much betterthan hanging around in spaces
and places where we kind of feelwe don't want to be anymore.
So before it was aboutengagement, dropping algorithms
that keep shifting, just puttingin more and more time for less
(04:29):
and less effect.
That's definitely been a thing.
But now, if I'm looking atmyself, it has been about the
creepy businessman.
Basically, we're renting landfrom landlords that are super
creepy and we're doing all thiswork, putting in all this time,
(04:53):
and we have no control over anyof it at a certain point.
So I really want you to takeback some control over how you
communicate with your audience,your customers, your clients.
So first of all, I want to talka little bit about the mindset
of being on these platforms.
(05:15):
What we tell ourselves is thatit's a free space and everybody
is there.
We don't have to pay anything.
But of course, we're paying.
We're paying with a lot of timeand effort, we're paying with
information.
We're paying with the fact thatwe don't own this land.
Somebody else owns the land.
They want us to spend money onmaking ads or they want us to
(05:40):
buy from the other people thatmake the ads.
But we are thinking about thisas a community in a way, a place
where we can hang out togetherand chat with the person you met
on that yarn festival at thatone time, like a decade ago, and
you're still in touch on thisplatform, which is amazing.
But that's not what this isabout.
(06:03):
That's what we're tellingourselves that this is about.
So I think we need to be alittle bit more clear on where
the social part and where thebusiness part comes in.
And if you wanna protect yoursmall business, we're gonna do
it in another way.
We're gonna focus on you'veguessed it your email, your
(06:25):
email list and the way youcommunicate to your audience,
your clients, your people.
We kind of already know this.
Right, it's not news.
But we also know that we coulddo more.
We could do it differently, wecould do it better in whatever
that means for you.
(06:45):
My favorite thing is to talk toother business owners and to
listen to them and to hear howthey're communicating to their
audience, and a lot of the time,what comes up is, oh yeah, the
newsletter.
People usually don't talk abouttheir list, but they talk about
(07:06):
the newsletter, which issomething that we'll talk about
too.
They feel like they want tosend it out more.
They don't really have an ideaof what to send, they're not
consistent with it and theythink they should really be
consistent with it.
And it feels like it's so mucheasier on social media because
(07:28):
it's short and a newsletter,especially in the form of a
newsletter, almost like it's anewspaper, it feels like it's
overwhelming.
You feel like you either needto write more or you feel like
you've written too much andpeople are not going to read it,
and there's all this insecuritysurrounding what should it
(07:50):
actually be, and this is whyemail has taken a step back from
social media, because socialmedia was, at the beginning,
very easy to use and in a lot ofways, still is, depending on
what type of person you are Like.
For me, social media is supereasy.
I can.
(08:10):
It sounds really weird, but I'mjust going to say it anyway.
I can take a picture ofanything and just come up with a
story and share it at anymoment.
In fact, I've been trying to bemore organized about it so I am
not so reactive to it, becausethat's my brain will just start
thinking in social mediasentences and I don't want that.
(08:33):
So I'm trying to do organizedposts, but for me that's hard
and for other people it's theother way around.
So it really depends on who youare, how you work and how you
can find a way that really workswell for you.
And sometimes you really don'tknow what that is, because you
(08:54):
have a certain idea of what itshould look like and you're kind
of pushing yourself into thatshape where, like you're around
what was it?
Round, peg, square form, kindof thing.
So yeah, that's not where wewant to be.
Coming back to the fact thatthese platforms seem free to
(09:15):
small businesses.
Free is good because it doesn'tcost any money, but there's so
much that we're forgetting aboutthat.
So the email.
But there's so much that we'reforgetting about that.
So the email.
If it has felt overwhelming orcomplicated to you, stick with
me.
It's not as hard as it seems.
I'm here to help.
Let's dive in.
So social media alone is justnot good anymore and we should
(09:41):
really move on from that.
But how?
It is the mindset shift thatcomes first, the pattern shift.
If you will deciding thatyou're going to add to your box
of tools no need to move awayfrom anything, that's fully up
to you.
But I would strongly advise orinform or inspire you to really
(10:07):
build something that is yoursand that is something that you
can take with you.
If you decide to move somewhereelse and take it to another
platform and you can do thatwith email you can take all your
contacts with you to anotherplatform and I've done that a
bunch of times.
(10:28):
I've been on MailChimp, I'veused the Blue.
What was that Blue?
Something that was really.
I did so much research for thatone and I felt like I needed
something that was superprofessional, because I was
ready for that and in terms ofyears in the business, yes, in
(10:49):
terms of knowledge, yes, but interms of how I work and what I
need, that was just not a goodmatch.
It was too complicated, toomany moving parts, too many
buttons and in the end, I didn'tuse it and I stopped sending
email.
So, yeah, it's definitelyimportant to find the right
(11:12):
spaces and we're going to comeback to that.
For me, what's most importantand I'm at this moment actually
simplifying my own emailstrategy because I want it to
feel easy, natural, useful, funfeel easy, natural, useful, fun.
(11:34):
I'm also all about it lookinggood, pretty aesthetically
pleasing.
I want to build a connectionwith people and not have it be
hard.
And what I've noticed in thelast couple of years when my
business has evolved and shifted, is that I've collected a bunch
of different lists.
(11:55):
So, if you're not familiar withthe terms, you kind of have
boxes with different groups ofpeople in them.
So I have an email list that isabout sending emails to tell
you guys that there's a newepisode out, and that's just
that.
Then there was an email aboutcrafting in general and my
(12:17):
crafting journey and consciousdecisions around making your own
wardrobe.
That was one.
Then I had the bullet journalgroup and then I had the
business group and it was toomuch.
I wasn't able to consistently.
And I'm doing air marks nowbecause I feel like the
(12:39):
marketing bros are telling us tobe consistent and like every
week, every other week, everywhatever, but it doesn't work
like that for everyone.
It certainly doesn't work likethat for me, but I have found
different ways to navigate thatand I can share that with you as
well.
But at this moment I feel likeI need to simplify.
(13:01):
The year 2025 for me issimplifying everything about my
business so that it is so mucheasier for me to do things, and
this is why I've started towrite a blog post first and then
turn it into a podcast episodeand then take from that, and
(13:23):
it's just kind of like so mucheasier to do because I work on
these.
I have peaks of beingproductive and then I have
trenches of being super meh, andin the peaks of productiveness
I want to kind of do everythingand finish everything, because
(13:49):
if I don't finish it, it's sohard for me to go back to
something to finish it.
So I have figured out that forme it really works to find a
topic that really makes meexcited, like this one, and then
I start writing a blog about itand from that blog I will then
(14:09):
turn it into a podcast episode.
So if you want to read aboutall of this this is the yapping
part If you want to have like areally consistent piece of text
with step-by-steps, then go overto the blog and you can read it
there.
It's not the show notes, it'sactually really a blog, and I'm
(14:33):
not.
I don't have that kind of ablog with all the I hate that so
much with all theadvertisements and that you
cannot, that you can't see whatis actually the information and
what is an advertisement.
So I don't have any of that.
It's all about giving you thisfree information and hoping that
at one point you will want somesupport, some extra support,
and you'll reach out to me.
That's how I like to work.
(14:55):
So I lost my train of thoughtthere.
Oh yeah, so I was talking aboutsimplifying.
Here we go simplifying my ownemail strategy.
I'm working on that in thebackground.
So if you're on my list, youwill probably at any moment or
you've already gotten it get anemail telling you that I'm
(15:16):
bringing, merging together allmy lists into one list and
making it more of a festival ofdifferent things, different
things.
So why is email so powerful?
I think you might already knowthe answer, but in case you
(15:41):
don't, it doesn't hurt to hearit again.
It is.
Let me use a kind of a metaphorthat's always helpful for me.
If social media is like tryingto hold somebody's attention in
a crowded, noisy room, email islike sitting down with somebody
to have a coffee and do someknitting and have a conversation
.
So this is why it's so good itlands directly in your
(16:01):
audience's inbox, so there's nocrazy algorithm guessing if
they'll ever see it or not.
Of course they can still decideif they want to open it or not,
but it will be there and youcan trust that it's there.
So if they want to hear fromyou, if they're interested, all
(16:22):
they have to do is click andthey see everything you want to
share with them.
An email builds actual, realtrust.
Over time they get to know you.
So there's a little bit of thatis about how you show up in
your email and that's the kindof work that I can do with you
(16:44):
and grow yeah, grow trust andget to know somebody, and
sometimes I forget all thethings that I share, and then
people talk to me and they say,oh, how's this and this going?
And I feel like, but yeah,people kind of know me because I
talk about these things.
(17:04):
Email also doesn't demandconstant engagement.
They don't disappear after afew hours, so somebody can
choose when they want to read itand when they want to open it,
and you can choose when you wantto send it.
I remember getting an email onSunday morning newsletter every
(17:27):
Sunday morning from somebodythat I really thought did really
wonderful things and I wasreally looking forward to being
in bed with my cup of coffee onSunday morning and reading her
newsletter.
It became part of my Sundaymorning, and that is not
something that we can do withmost social media platforms
(17:48):
anymore.
I guess YouTube, but I don'tknow if I would.
Youtube is actually not whatI'm talking about.
I'm talking mostly aboutInstagram, because most of us in
our industry are focused onInstagram.
So that's what I'm mostlytalking about.
Another thing that is why it'sso good is that just a simple
(18:12):
email sequence.
So a sequence is a couple ofemails that are sent out on
different times and they have aconnection together.
They can sell without feelingsleazy, without feeling icky,
but also that has something todo with your tone of voice, with
the way you talk about this,and, yeah, you can learn those
(18:36):
things.
So it's just a really good wayof connecting with your audience
.
And the best part, the best,best, best part about this is
this is basically what my wholemarketing plan is based on.
You don't need a huge list foremail to work, so you don't need
(18:59):
what we call in social media,vanity numbers.
I have so many thousandfollowers yes, that's great, but
do they actually buy from youor are they just there for your
ego?
And I don't mean anything nastywith that.
This is just how we work, right, we love.
It's great to feel appreciatedby people, but as a business,
(19:22):
you want to sell, and so a smallengaged email list will
outperform a big passiveaudience any day.
So just take that in for awhile A small engaged email list
will always outperform a bigpassive audience audience.
(19:45):
So if you find a way to sendyour emails that really connects
to who you are, who yourbusiness is, and communicate in
a way that people find engaging,showing what you have to offer
(20:15):
them to solve their problem orto make their day a little bit
better, then that will sell somuch easier and more than the
fleeting messages on Instagram.
And, by the way, if you'reactually actively selling on
Instagram, good for you, keepdoing it.
I'm not here to tell youotherwise, I just feel like I
have to keep repeating that.
Yes, but then email feels sohard sometimes, doesn't it?
(20:38):
As I said before, it can feeldraining and overwhelming.
You don't know what to write atall.
Like what am I writing about?
We've got a new color of thisand this yarn, or you've got one
.
Let's say, you're a patterndesigner and you've got one
pattern out, but the next one'snot going to be ready for months
(21:00):
.
So what are you going to writeabout?
Well, it's a conversation.
It's like you're writing to afriend.
Like in the olden days we wouldhave written a letter and then
we started writing like actualemails to your friends.
And then we got the smartphone.
So we stopped doing that andnow we're just sending text
(21:21):
messages a few characters at atime.
But think about that.
Go to that vibe where you feellike you're sitting down.
If you want to go all JaneAusten and light a candle, put a
fountain pen in front of you,pretend like you're using that
and start a conversation withthe person on the other end.
(21:44):
That's one way to startthinking about it.
Then the next thing is I don'thave time.
Well, you don't need a lot oftime.
Actually.
If you want to start by sendingone email per month, that is
great.
Nobody's telling you to do itevery week.
You should just find a way thatworks for you and that's doable
(22:07):
for you, and in the moment, forme, that feels like I need to
simplify a lot, otherwise Iwon't send it out.
And that's going on for me atthe moment, which is also the
big inspiration of talking toyou about this, because there's
definitely sometimes adifference between knowing how
(22:29):
to do things and actually doingthem.
So you don't have time, it'snot a big deal.
Just don't send as many.
And if you don't want to do itevery month or every week, then
you do it whenever it feels good.
You do it whenever it feelsgood.
(22:55):
I would, however, say try notto have any large gaps, and if
you feel like that might happen,then there's something else
going on, and then you eitherneed to simplify, like I'm doing
, or perhaps work in bulk.
So have a moment where you feellike energized and you have a
lot going on that you can talkabout and then do a few and plan
(23:18):
them out over time.
And then another thing thatpeople always say is I don't
want to be salesy, like socialmedia kind of easily goes into
that.
This is my new yarn.
This is my dog.
Here's the new outfit that mykid is wearing, with the new
yarn, with the new dog in thebackground.
(23:40):
That doesn't feel as salesy forsome reason.
But there's two things that Iwant to say about that.
First of all, this is yourbusiness.
You're supposed to be salesy,but you can still do it in a way
that feels good for you.
And there's just also aboutthat whole idea of you're not
pushing things onto people.
(24:02):
They can make their owndecisions.
You are offering them a way tohelp to enrich their lives,
something that they might finduseful or amazing, and it's your
job to show them that you'rethere with the solution to their
problem or with something thatwill make them feel really good.
(24:24):
And then it's up to them.
So you're never supposed tolike push it right.
You can share insights, stories, things that your audience
actually want to hear, make itinteresting.
Go back to that idea that I wassaying just before now actual
(24:45):
letter writing.
What is going on with you,what's going on with your life?
How is the new dog and how doesit reflect to your business?
We're actually thinking ofgetting a dog.
We're actually already on.
We're going to get a new dog.
It's coming and it's going toimpact our lives and it's going
(25:09):
to impact the way I run mybusiness, because I'm not going
to be able to sit behind mycomputer hours and hours on end.
This is also one of the reasonsthat we're actually getting a
dog.
So, yeah, you can just talkabout that, and there's so many
ways that you can share thingsin a newsletter.
(25:30):
It could be a weekly image withalmost nothing else like a
close-up of your latest design.
You are creative and there areendless creative ways of doing
that.
Yeah, it should feel good andnot another task on your to-do
(25:50):
list.
I am absolutely positive thatyou can find a way to do that.
So how do you then start orrestart your email list without
overthinking it?
Let's just say for this, tothis point, that your email list
(26:12):
has been sitting therecollecting dust or you haven't
started one yet.
We're making this super, supereasy.
You pick a simple platform.
Now, I personally love Flowdesk.
I told you before I've used awhole bunch of them.
Flowdesk is, first of all,aesthetically super pleasing,
(26:32):
design focused, which I think isreally important in our
industry and you can stillchange it up to match your brand
.
So it's not gonna.
It doesn't have to look likeall the other emails.
It can still look like it'syour email, but they just offer
really nice way of building youremail and it's so pretty.
(26:56):
It's just so pretty and it'seasy to use.
And this is something that Ifound out that my brain really
needs, something that I'm eagerto start working with because
it's fun and beautiful.
My brain wants that kind ofthing and that's why the blue
(27:18):
what was it?
Let me just Google it for a sec.
Well, I just can't find itanymore.
Anyway, it was too complicated.
I just felt overwhelmed.
Another thing that's reallysimple about Flowdesk is they
just have one price.
So where you're working to growyour list and then at some
(27:38):
point your list grows and thenyou have to pay more, that is
just super demotivating,unmotivating, what's the word, I
don't know.
With Flowdesk, that is justreally clear.
I think it's really affordable.
I think if you have a smallbusiness.
(27:58):
You should be able to affordthis because it's such an
important part of yourcommunication and your sales and
everything.
I do have a 50% off link foryou in the show notes and in my
blog post, which I only dobecause I've used it for so long
and I'm so happy about it andit works so well for me.
(28:18):
I'm not going to even say moreabout that because I don't want
to start feeling like this isall based around selling this
flow desk thing for you.
That's not it.
It's about the topic and if youdecide to use this, I have a
discount for you.
So for the first year is 50%off.
(28:39):
That gives you enough time tostart using and learning if it
works for you for a great price.
So there we go, that's it.
That's step one.
Pick a simple platform and it'scalled an email service provider
.
If you want to go and do someresearch, then you set up a
(28:59):
basic welcome sequence justthree to four emails introducing
yourself and what people canexpect.
Now this is new for a lot ofpeople.
People think we're just sendingout these newsletters and
that's it.
But there's a little bit moreto it and it doesn't have to be
hard.
In Flowdesk.
(29:19):
They have templates for that.
I actually teach it in myprogram, but you could just copy
the templates in your ownlanguage and then you're done.
So a sequence, as I said before,is a series of emails that have
a certain goal.
So this is a.
(29:39):
We're talking now about awelcome sequence, which lets
your new subscribers know whoyou are and what you're about.
And then also you have salessequences, which are something
that these are different from.
A nurturing sequence, which isan email that you send out on
(30:01):
the regular and that has asimilar topic every time.
A sales sequence is reallythere to help you sell a certain
product or a certain could be afestival, if you're a festival
organizer or a pattern or aworkshop I know that a lot of
you that are listening mighthave a local yarn shop and then
(30:28):
it doesn't feel like you needall the different things, and
that's right.
You can choose.
You can choose what you want todo.
That's all about figuring outwhat your best, what your best
strategy is Now.
Three simple start was pick asimple platform.
Two was set up a basic welcomesequence.
(30:48):
Number three give people areason to sign up.
Perhaps you give them a freePDF, a free worksheet, some
exclusive insights, a video tourof your shop or just some
really good emails, which isgreat.
You don't always have to givepeople stuff, but it's good to
(31:11):
know that not everybody wants togive you their email address
easily.
Sometimes it helps to give themsomething in return.
The whole step stack idea islike the merging of a Patreon,
an email list and a community.
For me at this point it's superoverwhelming.
(31:32):
I don't really grasp all of ityet.
I might at some point.
You might want to think aboutthat, and you can try different
things out.
I had the best thing that I didwas a pop-up on my homepage
that offered a wall planner, andthat was really successful.
A lot of people signed up formy list because of that, and I'm
(31:56):
not sure if it was because itwas a wall planner or because it
was a pop-up on my homepage,because both of those things
were new.
So I have to now test that withanother pop-up, or putting the
wall platter somewhere else,which doesn't make sense because
it's February already.
Anyway, fourth step, last stepcommit to a low stress schedule.
(32:21):
Now, this is one that's reallyimportant for me.
Just be okay with once a month,and if you miss one, it's fine.
It would be great if peoplestart mailing you like how are
you doing?
What's going on?
I've missed it, but usuallythey're doing their thing and
you don't have to stress aboutit.
Don't go with all that marketing, bro blah, where they say every
(32:46):
week, or it doesn't, it isn'teffective.
Not doing it, that's noteffective.
So, yeah, that's my 50 cents.
Two cents, how many cents is it?
It's a bunch of cents, man.
50 cents is a rap artist.
If you say rap artist, doesthat make you old Rapper?
(33:08):
Makes you feel old?
Now I'm thinking of a candywrapper.
Okay, stop thinking.
Where am I?
So, yeah, don't overthink it.
Just make it fun to do so thatyou will do it more often.
Have a little bit of a strategy,a plan.
Put some time in to think aboutwhat you want to communicate to
(33:32):
whom, and then make it fun andeasy and pretty, and this is how
you do it and this is how youstart, and from there you will
evolve and you will makedifferent kinds of sequences and
all that.
I'm totally giving youpermission to keep it really
easy, because I'm doing the samething.
The biggest takeaway from allof this is start now and keep it
(33:59):
simple.
It's not about perfection, it'sabout connection.
Write that down like embroiderit.
Hang it up on your wall.
Show up in a way that feelsgood for you and valuable for
your audience.
That's another key part Make itvaluable for your audience and
(34:20):
valuable is about a lot ofthings.
Don't start sending emails forthe sake of sending emails.
If you have nothing to say atsome point, then you have
nothing to say.
But at the same time, don'tthink that you have nothing to
say because you do Right.
(34:41):
Does that make sense?
If you want help to make thisprocess feel easy, there are
ways to get support.
Of course, you can join ourcommunity and talk to other
business owners and see how theydo it, talk about it, what
platforms they use and learnwhat's so annoyed by the whole
(35:10):
Musk Zuckerberg situation that Ihave come up with the email
power hour, then the blog andthis podcast episode.
So now I offer what I'veactually always offered is an
hour of support.
But the email power hour is justabout email and really
(35:33):
structured into one thing.
So I connected the price to thefact that it's really focused
on one thing.
If you want to do that, I'llhave a questionnaire ready for
you so that I can come preparedand that we don't waste a minute
of that hour where we start towork on a strategy and a way
(35:55):
that really works for you andthat you feel happy and eager to
start communicating to yourcustomers and your audience.
So if you need help, I'm here.
Reach out, go to my websitepatternshiftfm or ja-volcom, and
go to the work with me andyou'll find it there.
(36:18):
Yeah, social media will keepshifting and email hasn't
shifted in a bunch of decadesnow.
So let that sink in.
It has been there for a longtime and it will stay there, and
I think it's really time togive it a little bit more
(36:38):
respect and start using it sothat you can immediately start
making back that money thatyou've paid me to help you.
Send it out, if that makessense, right?
Thank you so much.
I wanted to end with a littlebit of a call to action.
This is something that isreally cool if you put that in
(36:58):
your email as well.
A CTA, a call to action.
If this resonates with you, Ilove to hear your thoughts.
I love to hear your thoughts.
You can reply to this episode'sshow notes, to the email I send
out to let you know thatthere's a new episode.
You can go to the website.
(37:19):
There's a button there whereyou can leave a voice message on
the show notes.
There's so many ways to get intouch with me, but I really want
to hear about you, even if youare not booking the email power
hour.
Just let me know what's goingon with you.
And yeah, that's how we learn,isn't it?
We just share and we help eachother out.
(37:40):
So that's it for today.
Thank you so much for hangingout.
I hope I made a little bit ofsense in all my rambling,
because sometimes I talk and Ithink at the same time, and I
really don't know what it'llsound like until I do the
editing, and then it's justgonna have to be good enough.
That's just what it's like alot of the time.
(38:02):
I just I'm not doing it again.
It's just gonna be have to begood enough.
Anyway, thank you so much foryour time and I hope to catch
you on the next one.
Bye.
Hey there, welcome back.
This is Saskia De Feiter atPattern Shift Podcast.
This is actually editing Saskiacoming in to give you a clearer
intro than I initially recorded.
I'm away on a holiday and I'mediting the episode in our
cottage, and I noticed that Iwas doing a lot of yapping, and
(00:24):
so I just wanted to start offwith saying what this actually
is about.
This is typically a Saskiastyle episode, so, just right
from the start, letting you knowthat this is going to be about
building a better strategyaround your connection to your
(00:45):
audience and using your emaillist to do it.
I'm going into different stepsin how you are going to do that.
The easy way, the really,really easy way.
So grab submitting and I hopeyou'll enjoy my yapping.
And if you want to learn aboutthis a little bit more
(01:06):
constructively, then please goto patternshiftfm, find the blog
, and there's going to be a blogpost there that has everything
in a kind of a step-by-step.
So the podcast is all about thekind of chaotic me, and then
I'll also offer you the reallyorganized part of myself that is
(01:28):
also there and that will helpyou to get more of a structural
view on this.
Well, let's get on with theshow and have fun.
Hey there and welcome to PatternShift, the podcast where
creative business owners likeyou learn to build a business
(01:50):
that's inspiring, fun andsustainable.
I'm Saskia de Veyter, abusiness strategist, guide maker
and all-around creativeentrepreneur.
I help business owners in theneedle and fiber craft world,
just like you, navigate allthose icky words, branding,
marketing and strategy in a waythat actually works for your
(02:12):
creative brain.
Here we talk about everythingfrom running a values-driven
business to simplifying yourmarketing without burning out.
Whether you're just startingout or looking to refine your
business, you're in the rightplace, so settle in, grab a cup
of tea, coffee or, you know,bruchladich you do you and let's
(02:34):
get started.
I think we ended up in a space,in a spot, where we have been
feeling uneasy about socialmedia for a while now, but we
don't want to miss out on makingconnections, having our friends
there, all of that.
You can do that if you want to,but we need to be realistic.
(02:59):
Like it's changed, right?
There's some really creepypeople that are pulling the
shots.
They were there before, butmore and more, we are aware of
what that means and how actuallyhow creepy they are.
I'm just going to offer youalternatives, and I'm going to
(03:20):
talk to you about doing thingsthat you've probably already
done before, but you really needto do them a little bit better,
a little bit more organized,have a little bit of a strategy
in mind things that you've beenputting to the side and I think
today, now, is the time to makethat change.
(03:44):
Our small businesses are smalland we're just like tiny little
parts of this whole machine, butwe still have some power, and
that is the power of consciouschoice and not letting yourself
get overwhelmed by where to gonext, because that's what I'm
(04:06):
here for.
That's where other businessowners come in and we can do our
own thing and do it much betterthan hanging around in spaces
and places where we kind of feelwe don't want to be anymore.
So before it was aboutengagement, dropping algorithms
that keep shifting, just puttingin more and more time for less
(04:29):
and less effect.
That's definitely been a thing.
But now, if I'm looking atmyself, it has been about the
creepy businessman.
Basically, we're renting landfrom landlords that are super
creepy and we're doing all thiswork, putting in all this time,
(04:53):
and we have no control over anyof it at a certain point.
So I really want you to takeback some control over how you
communicate with your audience,your customers, your clients.
So first of all, I want to talka little bit about the mindset
of being on these platforms.
(05:15):
What we tell ourselves is thatit's a free space and everybody
is there.
We don't have to pay anything.
But of course, we're paying.
We're paying with a lot of timeand effort, we're paying with
information.
We're paying with the fact thatwe don't own this land.
Somebody else owns the land.
They want us to spend money onmaking ads or they want us to
(05:40):
buy from the other people thatmake the ads.
But we are thinking about thisas a community in a way, a place
where we can hang out togetherand chat with the person you met
on that yarn festival at thatone time, like a decade ago, and
you're still in touch on thisplatform, which is amazing.
But that's not what this isabout.
(06:03):
That's what we're tellingourselves that this is about.
So I think we need to be alittle bit more clear on where
the social part and where thebusiness part comes in.
And if you wanna protect yoursmall business, we're gonna do
it in another way.
We're gonna focus on you'veguessed it your email, your
(06:25):
email list and the way youcommunicate to your audience,
your clients, your people.
We kind of already know this.
Right, it's not news.
But we also know that we coulddo more.
We could do it differently, wecould do it better in whatever
that means for you.
(06:45):
My favorite thing is to talk toother business owners and to
listen to them and to hear howthey're communicating to their
audience, and a lot of the time,what comes up is, oh yeah, the
newsletter.
People usually don't talk abouttheir list, but they talk about
(07:06):
the newsletter, which issomething that we'll talk about
too.
They feel like they want tosend it out more.
They don't really have an ideaof what to send, they're not
consistent with it and theythink they should really be
consistent with it.
And it feels like it's so mucheasier on social media because
(07:28):
it's short and a newsletter,especially in the form of a
newsletter, almost like it's anewspaper, it feels like it's
overwhelming.
You feel like you either needto write more or you feel like
you've written too much andpeople are not going to read it,
and there's all this insecuritysurrounding what should it
(07:50):
actually be, and this is whyemail has taken a step back from
social media, because socialmedia was, at the beginning,
very easy to use and in a lot ofways, still is, depending on
what type of person you are Like.
For me, social media is supereasy.
I can.
(08:10):
It sounds really weird, but I'mjust going to say it anyway.
I can take a picture ofanything and just come up with a
story and share it at anymoment.
In fact, I've been trying to bemore organized about it so I am
not so reactive to it, becausethat's my brain will just start
thinking in social mediasentences and I don't want that.
(08:33):
So I'm trying to do organizedposts, but for me that's hard
and for other people it's theother way around.
So it really depends on who youare, how you work and how you
can find a way that really workswell for you.
And sometimes you really don'tknow what that is, because you
(08:54):
have a certain idea of what itshould look like and you're kind
of pushing yourself into thatshape where, like you're around
what was it?
Round, peg, square form, kindof thing.
So yeah, that's not where wewant to be.
Coming back to the fact thatthese platforms seem free to
(09:15):
small businesses.
Free is good because it doesn'tcost any money, but there's so
much that we're forgetting aboutthat.
So the email.
But there's so much that we'reforgetting about that.
So the email.
If it has felt overwhelming orcomplicated to you, stick with
me.
It's not as hard as it seems.
I'm here to help.
Let's dive in.
So social media alone is justnot good anymore and we should
(09:41):
really move on from that.
But how?
It is the mindset shift thatcomes first, the pattern shift.
If you will deciding thatyou're going to add to your box
of tools no need to move awayfrom anything, that's fully up
to you.
But I would strongly advise orinform or inspire you to really
(10:07):
build something that is yoursand that is something that you
can take with you.
If you decide to move somewhereelse and take it to another
platform and you can do thatwith email you can take all your
contacts with you to anotherplatform and I've done that a
bunch of times.
(10:28):
I've been on MailChimp, I'veused the Blue.
What was that Blue?
Something that was really.
I did so much research for thatone and I felt like I needed
something that was superprofessional, because I was
ready for that and in terms ofyears in the business, yes, in
(10:49):
terms of knowledge, yes, but interms of how I work and what I
need, that was just not a goodmatch.
It was too complicated, toomany moving parts, too many
buttons and in the end, I didn'tuse it and I stopped sending
email.
So, yeah, it's definitelyimportant to find the right
(11:12):
spaces and we're going to comeback to that.
For me, what's most importantand I'm at this moment actually
simplifying my own emailstrategy because I want it to
feel easy, natural, useful, funfeel easy, natural, useful, fun.
(11:34):
I'm also all about it lookinggood, pretty aesthetically
pleasing.
I want to build a connectionwith people and not have it be
hard.
And what I've noticed in thelast couple of years when my
business has evolved and shifted, is that I've collected a bunch
of different lists.
(11:55):
So, if you're not familiar withthe terms, you kind of have
boxes with different groups ofpeople in them.
So I have an email list that isabout sending emails to tell
you guys that there's a newepisode out, and that's just
that.
Then there was an email aboutcrafting in general and my
(12:17):
crafting journey and consciousdecisions around making your own
wardrobe.
That was one.
Then I had the bullet journalgroup and then I had the
business group and it was toomuch.
I wasn't able to consistently.
And I'm doing air marks nowbecause I feel like the
(12:39):
marketing bros are telling us tobe consistent and like every
week, every other week, everywhatever, but it doesn't work
like that for everyone.
It certainly doesn't work likethat for me, but I have found
different ways to navigate thatand I can share that with you as
well.
But at this moment I feel likeI need to simplify.
(13:01):
The year 2025 for me issimplifying everything about my
business so that it is so mucheasier for me to do things, and
this is why I've started towrite a blog post first and then
turn it into a podcast episodeand then take from that, and
(13:23):
it's just kind of like so mucheasier to do because I work on
these.
I have peaks of beingproductive and then I have
trenches of being super meh, andin the peaks of productiveness
I want to kind of do everythingand finish everything, because
(13:49):
if I don't finish it, it's sohard for me to go back to
something to finish it.
So I have figured out that forme it really works to find a
topic that really makes meexcited, like this one, and then
I start writing a blog about itand from that blog I will then
(14:09):
turn it into a podcast episode.
So if you want to read aboutall of this this is the yapping
part If you want to have like areally consistent piece of text
with step-by-steps, then go overto the blog and you can read it
there.
It's not the show notes, it'sactually really a blog, and I'm
(14:33):
not.
I don't have that kind of ablog with all the I hate that so
much with all theadvertisements and that you
cannot, that you can't see whatis actually the information and
what is an advertisement.
So I don't have any of that.
It's all about giving you thisfree information and hoping that
at one point you will want somesupport, some extra support,
and you'll reach out to me.
That's how I like to work.
(14:55):
So I lost my train of thoughtthere.
Oh yeah, so I was talking aboutsimplifying.
Here we go simplifying my ownemail strategy.
I'm working on that in thebackground.
So if you're on my list, youwill probably at any moment or
you've already gotten it get anemail telling you that I'm
(15:16):
bringing, merging together allmy lists into one list and
making it more of a festival ofdifferent things, different
things.
So why is email so powerful?
I think you might already knowthe answer, but in case you
(15:41):
don't, it doesn't hurt to hearit again.
It is.
Let me use a kind of a metaphorthat's always helpful for me.
If social media is like tryingto hold somebody's attention in
a crowded, noisy room, email islike sitting down with somebody
to have a coffee and do someknitting and have a conversation
.
So this is why it's so good itlands directly in your
(16:01):
audience's inbox, so there's nocrazy algorithm guessing if
they'll ever see it or not.
Of course they can still decideif they want to open it or not,
but it will be there and youcan trust that it's there.
So if they want to hear fromyou, if they're interested, all
(16:22):
they have to do is click andthey see everything you want to
share with them.
An email builds actual, realtrust.
Over time they get to know you.
So there's a little bit of thatis about how you show up in
your email and that's the kindof work that I can do with you
(16:44):
and grow yeah, grow trust andget to know somebody, and
sometimes I forget all thethings that I share, and then
people talk to me and they say,oh, how's this and this going?
And I feel like, but yeah,people kind of know me because I
talk about these things.
(17:04):
Email also doesn't demandconstant engagement.
They don't disappear after afew hours, so somebody can
choose when they want to read itand when they want to open it,
and you can choose when you wantto send it.
I remember getting an email onSunday morning newsletter every
(17:27):
Sunday morning from somebodythat I really thought did really
wonderful things and I wasreally looking forward to being
in bed with my cup of coffee onSunday morning and reading her
newsletter.
It became part of my Sundaymorning, and that is not
something that we can do withmost social media platforms
(17:48):
anymore.
I guess YouTube, but I don'tknow if I would.
Youtube is actually not whatI'm talking about.
I'm talking mostly aboutInstagram, because most of us in
our industry are focused onInstagram.
So that's what I'm mostlytalking about.
Another thing that is why it'sso good is that just a simple
(18:12):
email sequence.
So a sequence is a couple ofemails that are sent out on
different times and they have aconnection together.
They can sell without feelingsleazy, without feeling icky,
but also that has something todo with your tone of voice, with
the way you talk about this,and, yeah, you can learn those
(18:36):
things.
So it's just a really good wayof connecting with your audience
.
And the best part, the best,best, best part about this is
this is basically what my wholemarketing plan is based on.
You don't need a huge list foremail to work, so you don't need
(18:59):
what we call in social media,vanity numbers.
I have so many thousandfollowers yes, that's great, but
do they actually buy from youor are they just there for your
ego?
And I don't mean anything nastywith that.
This is just how we work, right, we love.
It's great to feel appreciatedby people, but as a business,
(19:22):
you want to sell, and so a smallengaged email list will
outperform a big passiveaudience any day.
So just take that in for awhile A small engaged email list
will always outperform a bigpassive audience audience.
(19:45):
So if you find a way to sendyour emails that really connects
to who you are, who yourbusiness is, and communicate in
a way that people find engaging,showing what you have to offer
(20:15):
them to solve their problem orto make their day a little bit
better, then that will sell somuch easier and more than the
fleeting messages on Instagram.
And, by the way, if you'reactually actively selling on
Instagram, good for you, keepdoing it.
I'm not here to tell youotherwise, I just feel like I
have to keep repeating that.
Yes, but then email feels sohard sometimes, doesn't it?
(20:38):
As I said before, it can feeldraining and overwhelming.
You don't know what to write atall.
Like what am I writing about?
We've got a new color of thisand this yarn, or you've got one
.
Let's say, you're a patterndesigner and you've got one
pattern out, but the next one'snot going to be ready for months
(21:00):
.
So what are you going to writeabout?
Well, it's a conversation.
It's like you're writing to afriend.
Like in the olden days we wouldhave written a letter and then
we started writing like actualemails to your friends.
And then we got the smartphone.
So we stopped doing that andnow we're just sending text
(21:21):
messages a few characters at atime.
But think about that.
Go to that vibe where you feellike you're sitting down.
If you want to go all JaneAusten and light a candle, put a
fountain pen in front of you,pretend like you're using that
and start a conversation withthe person on the other end.
(21:44):
That's one way to startthinking about it.
Then the next thing is I don'thave time.
Well, you don't need a lot oftime.
Actually.
If you want to start by sendingone email per month, that is
great.
Nobody's telling you to do itevery week.
You should just find a way thatworks for you and that's doable
(22:07):
for you, and in the moment, forme, that feels like I need to
simplify a lot, otherwise Iwon't send it out.
And that's going on for me atthe moment, which is also the
big inspiration of talking toyou about this, because there's
definitely sometimes adifference between knowing how
(22:29):
to do things and actually doingthem.
So you don't have time, it'snot a big deal.
Just don't send as many.
And if you don't want to do itevery month or every week, then
you do it whenever it feels good.
You do it whenever it feelsgood.
(22:55):
I would, however, say try notto have any large gaps, and if
you feel like that might happen,then there's something else
going on, and then you eitherneed to simplify, like I'm doing
, or perhaps work in bulk.
So have a moment where you feellike energized and you have a
lot going on that you can talkabout and then do a few and plan
(23:18):
them out over time.
And then another thing thatpeople always say is I don't
want to be salesy, like socialmedia kind of easily goes into
that.
This is my new yarn.
This is my dog.
Here's the new outfit that mykid is wearing, with the new
yarn, with the new dog in thebackground.
(23:40):
That doesn't feel as salesy forsome reason.
But there's two things that Iwant to say about that.
First of all, this is yourbusiness.
You're supposed to be salesy,but you can still do it in a way
that feels good for you.
And there's just also aboutthat whole idea of you're not
pushing things onto people.
(24:02):
They can make their owndecisions.
You are offering them a way tohelp to enrich their lives,
something that they might finduseful or amazing, and it's your
job to show them that you'rethere with the solution to their
problem or with something thatwill make them feel really good.
(24:24):
And then it's up to them.
So you're never supposed tolike push it right.
You can share insights, stories, things that your audience
actually want to hear, make itinteresting.
Go back to that idea that I wassaying just before now actual
(24:45):
letter writing.
What is going on with you,what's going on with your life?
How is the new dog and how doesit reflect to your business?
We're actually thinking ofgetting a dog.
We're actually already on.
We're going to get a new dog.
It's coming and it's going toimpact our lives and it's going
(25:09):
to impact the way I run mybusiness, because I'm not going
to be able to sit behind mycomputer hours and hours on end.
This is also one of the reasonsthat we're actually getting a
dog.
So, yeah, you can just talkabout that, and there's so many
ways that you can share thingsin a newsletter.
(25:30):
It could be a weekly image withalmost nothing else like a
close-up of your latest design.
You are creative and there areendless creative ways of doing
that.
Yeah, it should feel good andnot another task on your to-do
(25:50):
list.
I am absolutely positive thatyou can find a way to do that.
So how do you then start orrestart your email list without
overthinking it?
Let's just say for this, tothis point, that your email list
(26:12):
has been sitting therecollecting dust or you haven't
started one yet.
We're making this super, supereasy.
You pick a simple platform.
Now, I personally love Flowdesk.
I told you before I've used awhole bunch of them.
Flowdesk is, first of all,aesthetically super pleasing,
(26:32):
design focused, which I think isreally important in our
industry and you can stillchange it up to match your brand
.
So it's not gonna.
It doesn't have to look likeall the other emails.
It can still look like it'syour email, but they just offer
really nice way of building youremail and it's so pretty.
(26:56):
It's just so pretty and it'seasy to use.
And this is something that Ifound out that my brain really
needs, something that I'm eagerto start working with because
it's fun and beautiful.
My brain wants that kind ofthing and that's why the blue
(27:18):
what was it?
Let me just Google it for a sec.
Well, I just can't find itanymore.
Anyway, it was too complicated.
I just felt overwhelmed.
Another thing that's reallysimple about Flowdesk is they
just have one price.
So where you're working to growyour list and then at some
(27:38):
point your list grows and thenyou have to pay more, that is
just super demotivating,unmotivating, what's the word, I
don't know.
With Flowdesk, that is justreally clear.
I think it's really affordable.
I think if you have a smallbusiness.
(27:58):
You should be able to affordthis because it's such an
important part of yourcommunication and your sales and
everything.
I do have a 50% off link foryou in the show notes and in my
blog post, which I only dobecause I've used it for so long
and I'm so happy about it andit works so well for me.
(28:18):
I'm not going to even say moreabout that because I don't want
to start feeling like this isall based around selling this
flow desk thing for you.
That's not it.
It's about the topic and if youdecide to use this, I have a
discount for you.
So for the first year is 50%off.
(28:39):
That gives you enough time tostart using and learning if it
works for you for a great price.
So there we go, that's it.
That's step one.
Pick a simple platform and it'scalled an email service provider
.
If you want to go and do someresearch, then you set up a
(28:59):
basic welcome sequence justthree to four emails introducing
yourself and what people canexpect.
Now this is new for a lot ofpeople.
People think we're just sendingout these newsletters and
that's it.
But there's a little bit moreto it and it doesn't have to be
hard.
In Flowdesk.
(29:19):
They have templates for that.
I actually teach it in myprogram, but you could just copy
the templates in your ownlanguage and then you're done.
So a sequence, as I said before,is a series of emails that have
a certain goal.
So this is a.
(29:39):
We're talking now about awelcome sequence, which lets
your new subscribers know whoyou are and what you're about.
And then also you have salessequences, which are something
that these are different from.
A nurturing sequence, which isan email that you send out on
(30:01):
the regular and that has asimilar topic every time.
A sales sequence is reallythere to help you sell a certain
product or a certain could be afestival, if you're a festival
organizer or a pattern or aworkshop I know that a lot of
you that are listening mighthave a local yarn shop and then
(30:28):
it doesn't feel like you needall the different things, and
that's right.
You can choose.
You can choose what you want todo.
That's all about figuring outwhat your best, what your best
strategy is Now.
Three simple start was pick asimple platform.
Two was set up a basic welcomesequence.
(30:48):
Number three give people areason to sign up.
Perhaps you give them a freePDF, a free worksheet, some
exclusive insights, a video tourof your shop or just some
really good emails, which isgreat.
You don't always have to givepeople stuff, but it's good to
(31:11):
know that not everybody wants togive you their email address
easily.
Sometimes it helps to give themsomething in return.
The whole step stack idea islike the merging of a Patreon,
an email list and a community.
For me at this point it's superoverwhelming.
(31:32):
I don't really grasp all of ityet.
I might at some point.
You might want to think aboutthat, and you can try different
things out.
I had the best thing that I didwas a pop-up on my homepage
that offered a wall planner, andthat was really successful.
A lot of people signed up formy list because of that, and I'm
(31:56):
not sure if it was because itwas a wall planner or because it
was a pop-up on my homepage,because both of those things
were new.
So I have to now test that withanother pop-up, or putting the
wall platter somewhere else,which doesn't make sense because
it's February already.
Anyway, fourth step, last stepcommit to a low stress schedule.
(32:21):
Now, this is one that's reallyimportant for me.
Just be okay with once a month,and if you miss one, it's fine.
It would be great if peoplestart mailing you like how are
you doing?
What's going on?
I've missed it, but usuallythey're doing their thing and
you don't have to stress aboutit.
Don't go with all that marketing, bro blah, where they say every
(32:46):
week, or it doesn't, it isn'teffective.
Not doing it, that's noteffective.
So, yeah, that's my 50 cents.
Two cents, how many cents is it?
It's a bunch of cents, man.
50 cents is a rap artist.
If you say rap artist, doesthat make you old Rapper?
(33:08):
Makes you feel old?
Now I'm thinking of a candywrapper.
Okay, stop thinking.
Where am I?
So, yeah, don't overthink it.
Just make it fun to do so thatyou will do it more often.
Have a little bit of a strategy,a plan.
Put some time in to think aboutwhat you want to communicate to
(33:32):
whom, and then make it fun andeasy and pretty, and this is how
you do it and this is how youstart, and from there you will
evolve and you will makedifferent kinds of sequences and
all that.
I'm totally giving youpermission to keep it really
easy, because I'm doing the samething.
The biggest takeaway from allof this is start now and keep it
(33:59):
simple.
It's not about perfection, it'sabout connection.
Write that down like embroiderit.
Hang it up on your wall.
Show up in a way that feelsgood for you and valuable for
your audience.
That's another key part Make itvaluable for your audience and
(34:20):
valuable is about a lot ofthings.
Don't start sending emails forthe sake of sending emails.
If you have nothing to say atsome point, then you have
nothing to say.
But at the same time, don'tthink that you have nothing to
say because you do Right.
(34:41):
Does that make sense?
If you want help to make thisprocess feel easy, there are
ways to get support.
Of course, you can join ourcommunity and talk to other
business owners and see how theydo it, talk about it, what
platforms they use and learnwhat's so annoyed by the whole
(35:10):
Musk Zuckerberg situation that Ihave come up with the email
power hour, then the blog andthis podcast episode.
So now I offer what I'veactually always offered is an
hour of support.
But the email power hour is justabout email and really
(35:33):
structured into one thing.
So I connected the price to thefact that it's really focused
on one thing.
If you want to do that, I'llhave a questionnaire ready for
you so that I can come preparedand that we don't waste a minute
of that hour where we start towork on a strategy and a way
(35:55):
that really works for you andthat you feel happy and eager to
start communicating to yourcustomers and your audience.
So if you need help, I'm here.
Reach out, go to my websitepatternshiftfm or ja-volcom, and
go to the work with me andyou'll find it there.
(36:18):
Yeah, social media will keepshifting and email hasn't
shifted in a bunch of decadesnow.
So let that sink in.
It has been there for a longtime and it will stay there, and
I think it's really time togive it a little bit more
(36:38):
respect and start using it sothat you can immediately start
making back that money thatyou've paid me to help you.
Send it out, if that makessense, right?
Thank you so much.
I wanted to end with a littlebit of a call to action.
This is something that isreally cool if you put that in
(36:58):
your email as well.
A CTA, a call to action.
If this resonates with you, Ilove to hear your thoughts.
I love to hear your thoughts.
You can reply to this episode'sshow notes, to the email I send
out to let you know thatthere's a new episode.
You can go to the website.
(37:19):
There's a button there whereyou can leave a voice message on
the show notes.
There's so many ways to get intouch with me, but I really want
to hear about you, even if youare not booking the email power
hour.
Just let me know what's goingon with you.
And yeah, that's how we learn,isn't it?
We just share and we help eachother out.
(37:40):
So that's it for today.
Thank you so much for hangingout.
I hope I made a little bit ofsense in all my rambling,
because sometimes I talk and Ithink at the same time, and I
really don't know what it'llsound like until I do the
editing, and then it's justgonna have to be good enough.
That's just what it's like alot of the time.
(38:02):
I just I'm not doing it again.
It's just gonna be have to begood enough.
Anyway, thank you so much foryour time and I hope to catch
you on the next one.
Bye.
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