May 29, 2024 • 36 mins
LGBTQIA+ members of Austin’s music scene talk about how proposed bans on drag performances, and laws outlawing gender-affirming care for minors are impacting their work and their lives. You’ll hear from co-owner of Cheer Up Charlies Maggie Lea. Plus you’ll hear from Austin musicians Caleb de Casper, Lizzy Lehman, Pelvis Wrestley’s Jammy Violet, and writer/musician […]
The post How laws targeting LGBTQIA+ Texans are impacting Austin’s live music scene appeared first on KUT & KUTX Studios -- Podcasts.
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Episode Transcript
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Elizabeth McQueen (00:01):
I'm Elizabeth McQueen.
Miles Bloxson (00:03):
And I'm Myles Bloxson.
And you're listening to
Pause play.
A podcast about live
music, why it matters
and what comes next.
Elizabeth McQueen (00:13):
This season,
we're exploring
some changes that are
impacting Austin's
live music scene.
Miles Bloxson (00:18):
In the last episode,
we looked at how the
Texas abortion ban
was affecting women
working in the Austin
music ecosystem.
Elizabeth McQueen (00:25):
And in this episode,
we're taking a look
at how proposed
bans on drag
performances and
laws outlawing
gender affirming
care for minors
are impacting
LGBTQIa plus
members of our
music community.
Miles Bloxson (00:37):
In the last legislative
session, two bills
were signed into law.
One was SB 12, aka
the drag ban.
Elizabeth McQueen (00:44):
We asked our friend Sergio,
who's a national correspondent
for NPR and who
you heard in the last
episode to help
us understand SB
12.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (00:52):
This bill
in particular
would ban
drag shows
that are
explicit in
front of minors.
What explicit
means? I
think that's part of
the question.
Right. And one of the things
that critics have said
is going against
their First Amendment
rights, because
what we've heard is that,
you know, initially Republicans
were pushing
(01:13):
almost to ban
all drag shows
in front of minors.
But then they had to make
this classification
of, you know, if it's
too sexual in
nature, if
there's,
fake breasts
or this
exaggeration
of body parts
to sexualized
a character,
then in that case,
that cannot happen
in front of minors,
which means that
(01:34):
drag queens
or drag kings
would not be able
to perform
at a parade,
or would not be able
to perform
at a birthday
where there might be kids.
Right? Because
of of this
law.
Elizabeth McQueen (01:45):
Even though SB 12
was signed into law,
it was blocked by a
federal judge for
being unconstitutional.
So the drag ban
is not in effect
in Texas.
Miles Bloxson (01:54):
But a lot of
musicians and performers,
especially those who
identify as queer,
were involved in the
movement to stop the
passage of SB 12.
Elizabeth McQueen (02:03):
In that same
legislative session,
the Texas Legislature
also passed a ban
on gender affirming
care for minors.
Miles Bloxson (02:09):
We ask Sergio to walk
us through the bill
and what gender
affirming care really
means.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (02:15):
Yeah, so for each
state that
is different
and that looks different.
In Texas in particular,
we're talking about
a prohibition
on gender
affirming care, which
means hormone
therapy or
puberty blockers
or surgery
like top surgery
to remove breasts
on transgender
men if you
are under 18
(02:35):
years old. So
that means that
if you are
a minor, you cannot
access this
type of
therapy.
Elizabeth McQueen (02:42):
In his reporting,
Sergio talked to
both trans people
who oppose the bill
and Republicans
who supported it.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (02:48):
I've talked to many folks
who have said that
as adults now,
they transition when
they were younger,
and they've said that having
access to these
medical treatments
were life saving
for them
because they
were clear that they wanted
to transition. But
Republicans in the
legislature, who have
been the ones pushing
for for
this type of legislation,
they've said that,
you know,
kids don't
(03:08):
fully know
what they want
to do with their
lives, that
their brains take longer
to develop,
and that, doing
this type of therapy
on them earlier,
it's equivalent
to abuse. That's
what they've said. And so
they've said that they
really don't want
kids to have access
to these. Yet.
Miles Bloxson (03:25):
We wanted to know how
SB 12 and SB 14
have been affecting
members of our LGBTQIa
plus community.
Elizabeth McQueen (03:32):
One person we spoke
to was Maggie.
Yeah.
Maggie Lea (03:35):
My name is Maggie Lea.
I, co-own chair of
Charlie's, music
venue, bar, LGBTQ
space downtown and,
program stuff there, and
just general community
organizer, I guess.
Elizabeth McQueen (03:50):
We've talked to Maggie
a lot in this
podcast, especially
during the pandemic.
You should go back and
listen to those episodes
if you want to know what
things were like for
Austin venue
owners during the most
intense Covid
times, Chair.
Miles Bloxson (04:02):
Of Charlie's has always
put on a mix of live
shows, drag shows and
dance parties, and
Maggie saw the signs
that the legislature
might be trying to
restrict drag pretty
early on.
Maggie Lea (04:14):
I got word of
it right when I think
Equality Texas.
I made a post about it
so pretty early because
they did come out with
it really, really ahead
of other folks.
And then, my dog sitter
works at the at the
legislature.
It was kind of like I
had heard the rumblings
about all these
different, anti
(04:35):
LGBTQ bills
that were that were
about to be released.
And, I
think, like, you know,
because I caught wind of
it, I,
I remember I made a post
about it on cheer.
I was kind of just
telling the community,
like, hey, we need to
gather and, get
(04:55):
together.
And this is possibly
going to be a bigger
fight than we think.
Elizabeth McQueen (05:00):
Maggie and her
partner Tamara,
who also owns
Cheer Up Charlie's,
did spend some
time at the legislature.
They actually signed
up to testify
against the drag
ban, but were
never called to speak.
But mostly they
support. The seen
through holding drag
shows.
Maggie Lea (05:15):
So one of my really good
friends is as Bridget
Bandaged.
Miles Bloxson (05:18):
Bridget abandoned is
a drag queen who in
some ways became the
face of the fight
against the drag ban.
Maggie Lea (05:24):
She's like both probably
talked to her throughout
the whole day. We're like
really great friends.
And I, to be frank,
like, it would be funny
if she heard this, but I
honestly was sort of
afraid to,
decrease any of our drag
programing.
She would have just had
a fit and yell at all of
us. Part of protesting,
I think, for all of us,
(05:44):
was to,
just go on about
business as we normally
would. And we were kind
of in a period where we
were having more drag
shows as it was.
And actually the drag
shows were bringing in
more people, because
people coming to drag
shows was kind of their
way of, of, you know,
(06:04):
participating in the
activism.
So the drag shows were
actually packed out.
They were more packed
out than our dance
parties, way more packed
out than when we were
just booking, like some
live music for whatever
reason. You know, drag
was the thing.
Last summer, everybody
wanted to book a drag
show. It was like
a lot of non queer owned
(06:24):
spaces were booking drag
shows, hotel lobbies.
I mean, every place was
a drag show.
It felt like last
summer, like pool parties.
So yeah, I mean we
kind of increased
our shows.
It was it was like a few
like maybe 3 or 4 fold.
It was a protest.
It was a fight against
(06:46):
what was going on in the
legislature.
But he was
kind of. Sometimes I
think the the best way
to stand up to
something is just to be
like, well, I'm actually
having a great time
doing it. I'm not going
to think about what
might happen
if you guys decide this
is illegal for whatever
(07:06):
reason.
And I really did think
it would be pretty hard
for them to decide
that being yourself was
illegal.
Elizabeth McQueen (07:14):
But Maggie told
us it wasn't all
fun.
Maggie Lea (07:17):
You know, one dark sort
of shadow side of last
year was that while we
were putting on all these
drag shows and having a
lot of fun doing it,
I could tell, you know,
folks in our community
were super burnt out.
There was very
just a looming sense
of,
(07:38):
not knowing if we would
have our spaces that,
you know, we consider
spaces that we can be
free to be ourselves.
I saw a lot of, like,
infighting, competition
within our community,
like, really high level
kind of hateful things.
I felt like within the
community, folks were
(07:58):
just burnt out.
They were tired.
I mean, there were there
was a scarcity
mindset that really did
just really sink in.
By the end of December.
It was it was actually
tough to put on drag
shows, you know, as a
venue producer.
And I just know for a
fact I talked to a lot
of folks in our industry.
(08:19):
It was oversaturated
because there were so
many,
non queer owned spaces
that were kind of
replicating.
I think they were replicating
what we were all doing
in support, but I didn't
I don't know that they
realized that they were
actually just it became
like a lot of performers
were like physically,
you know, the physical
(08:40):
labor part of it was
like full on burnout for
them. And,
the spaces that started
these, like queer events
and parties were just
left empty.
Miles Bloxson (08:51):
By the end of 2023.
Sheriff Charlie's was
in a tough place.
Maggie Lea (08:56):
Yeah, we almost we
almost closed.
I mean, we had to, like,
re pivot.
Right? Right before
South. By this year, I
spent sort of the winter
months like, okay, we
have drag shows but I'm
spreading them out.
I'm bringing back live
music, I'm bringing back
our dance parties and
all kinds of other stuff
like comedy events and
stuff, just to sustain
the business.
Elizabeth McQueen (09:16):
And Maggie told
us it wasn't just
the legislation
aimed at her community
that made 2023 a
hard year for cheer
ups.
Miles Bloxson (09:23):
Chair ups is an outdoor
venue, and like we
talked about in our
episode about climate
change last summer
with its record
breaking heat, was
tough on a lot of
outdoor venues.
Maggie Lea (09:34):
It was terribly hard
to, like, process all
this that was going
on in the legislature
and try to have events
at your space and be hit
by pretty much just
unending heat.
Miles Bloxson (09:46):
And there were other
factors as well.
Maggie Lea (09:49):
I haven't totally
processed it. It was
such a it's such a
difficult year for us,
and we were struggling
financially the entire
time because it was also
sort of the year that
any venue, queer
programing or not, was
coming out of
the pandemic like that,
them three year mark
or 2 or 3 year mark,
where our folks were
(10:09):
like, oh my gosh, it's
time to pay back my
loans. It's time to, you
know, and now, like all
the inflation was
happening and now like,
you know, everything I,
all the money I thought
I had in my bank account
is actually going back
towards, loan payments
or so. A lot of places
closed last year.
I mean, this year as
well.
(10:30):
It was just already a
financially difficult
year. And to add layer
of like, the community,
the friendships, the
politics, state
of Texas politics, all
of it. It was very hard.
Elizabeth McQueen (10:50):
We also wanted to
know what this time
was like for musicians
like Caleb.
Caleb de Casper (10:54):
I'm Caleb de
Casper.
I am a local
musician and I
guess political
activist. Now.
Miles Bloxson (11:02):
Caleb uses elements
of glam rock in drag
in his act. And when
he first heard about
the bill seeking to
ban drag shows in
Jinja affirming care,
he didn't really think
it would go anywhere.
Elizabeth McQueen (11:13):
But then
something changed.
Caleb de Casper (11:15):
I guess when I started
to see other people
in the community also.
Like speaking on it
and posting about
it. I was like, maybe
this is a little bit more
serious than what I
thought.
Specifically, I
saw, like, Maggie
from Cheer UPS was
starting to post about
it.
And so that's a person
who owns a business.
So it's like they're not
(11:36):
going to.
Go on a ledge for
something that's not real,
you know?
Then I saw, my
friend Brigitte.
Bandit, who was.
Really well known
in the drag community
and not really well
known globally because
of, you know, her
part in all of this.
And so those are people
that I trusted
(11:57):
their judgment.
And I started to look
into it more. And I
was like,
yeah, this actually
might might happen.
Miles Bloxson (12:05):
Caleb started going
to the legislature
every day.
He even testified
about SB 12.
Caleb de Casper (12:11):
Welcome.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (12:11):
Introduce yourself
and your testimony.
Caleb de Casper (12:13):
Hi there.
It looks like I'm going
to bring this thing home.
I'm Caleb the
Casper, and I've
been a resident of Austin
for seven years.
I am opposed to
both of the bills,
SB 12 and
the, reading
to cats, drag
queens, reading the kids
bill.
I'm a well-known and
(12:34):
successful musician
across Central Texas,
and I wear both male
and female clothing
on and off stage.
I hope that me talking
to you today will show
you that drag
encompasses more
than you think.
First off, as a citizen,
I'm deeply concerned
with the amount of anti
LGBTQ plus bills
making their way through this
legislative session
when issues of homelessness
and mental illness
(12:55):
illegal, illegal
our state and we
seem to have a problem
with keeping the lights
on in the winter.
It doesn't feel appropriate
to be concerned with
drag queens at this
time.
As a small business
owner, I have a
concern that if
this bill goes through
the fact that I wear
high heels and makeup
on stage, just like
Kiss or Motley Crew
two would severely
limit my options
(13:15):
for doing business
in the state.
I wouldn't be booked
for festivals such
as ACL, or I could
be arrested if
there are children in
the audience at
music festivals.
And it reads to me
like, South Bay
happened a couple of weeks
ago and I was
booked at storefronts
and I was booked at
corporate events.
If there were children
there, I could have been
arrested for making
(13:36):
art because I wear
high heels and lipstick
when I perform with my
band.
Elizabeth McQueen (13:39):
But Caleb told us
that all this time
at the Capitol,
it really took a toll.
Caleb de Casper (13:45):
I, I guess the best
way to describe it
is after.
This session. I
took six months off
from my life.
So I had a lot of
other stuff going on
because I always have stuff
going on, but that
every single day
(14:05):
was so much.
And the things that I
learned and the people
that I met and the
things that I heard
were just outrageous.
And so much to
process day to day.
And one thing that we
were told by Equality
Texas when we're
there is that
like, you need to
take time for yourself
or you will burn out,
(14:25):
which I did
because.
You don't know if
people there want
to hurt you.
You don't know if
there are mentally
unwell people there.
You're.
On a spotlight
while you're there, especially
if you're a person that people
are listening to.
And we did encounter
(14:46):
people who are on
these like pseudo
news podcast
like Infowars
and whatnot.
And I watch them
instigate
altercations with
people so they
could film it and say,
look at what these
horrible people did.
So the whole time you're
there, you're like
burning through
(15:07):
your adrenaline and
you're burning through all
those chemicals in
your body. So you go home
at the end of the day and you
are just totally wiped
out.
Elizabeth McQueen (15:15):
And Caleb thinks
there was an unintended
consequence to
these bills.
Caleb de Casper (15:19):
When you and ty
things, you make them
really cool.
So right now, going
to a drag show or
supporting a queer
band, it's more
than just watching
music. You're like
showing people what
you think and who
you are.
And they did that
eventually.
Miles Bloxson (15:37):
Like we said, both
the drag ban in the
ban on gender
affirming care pass
the drag ban would go
on to be ruled
unconstitutional.
And Caleb said the
whole process will
definitely make its
way into his art.
Caleb de Casper (15:50):
My first album was
like finding myself
as an artist and as
a queer person, and
that translated well
to like all people.
And that was a very
Salvatore.
And, a celebratory,
anthem Bass Lake
album.
Very positive.
Self-Empowerment.
(16:11):
But my next album.
Is a little bit darker.
Because this is what
I've experienced
now.
So I'm trying to find ways
to write about.
Realistic things
without pessimism,
and it's going to be different.
Unidentified (16:38):
Inside of my head.
They made it to my
snow party to see me
all red.
Elizabeth McQueen (16:48):
Coming up after the
break, we speak
to more LGBTQIa
plus artists
about how proposed
restrictions on drag
shows and the ban
on gender affirming
care for minors
have impacted their
life and art.
Miles Bloxson (17:01):
Welcome back to Paul's
Play, a podcast about
live music, why it
matters and what
comes next.
Earlier, you heard
from venue owner
Maggie Lee and
musician Caleb the
Casper about how
recent anti-LGBTQ
laws have affected
them.
Elizabeth McQueen (17:16):
We also spoke to
Austin musicians
Lizzy and Jamie.
Lizzy Lehman (17:19):
My name is Lizzy Lehman,
and I'm a musician and
artist here in Austin,
Texas, and I've been
here since 2011 and
very excited to be here
today.
Jammy Violet (17:30):
My name is Jammy
Violet. My band is
called Pelvis Wrestley
and I'm also happy to
be here today.
Miles Bloxson (17:36):
How long have you
lived in Austin,
Jamie?
Jammy Violet (17:39):
Well, I grew up in
Austin, was raised in
Oak Hill until I
turned 18 and just
couldn't wait to get out of
here.
And then I went to
Seattle for a while,
and then I couldn't wait
to get out of there.
So I came back in fall
of 2016, and I've been
here since then.
Elizabeth McQueen (17:55):
And Lizzy, you said you
got here in 2011.
Where did you come from?
Lizzy Lehman (17:59):
I was in Austin in
2009 and then
went back to Portland,
and then came back to
Austin in 2011.
But I'm originally from
Evanston, Illinois,
outside of Chicago.
Elizabeth McQueen (18:09):
So you guys have
been in Austin for
a while. You both
have chosen to
live in Austin,
but things have changed,
you know, recently,
especially in this last
year with the legislative
session. How did
you kind of feel
when you saw that
that was happening,
like at the very beginning
when you saw that the legislature
was starting to float
these anti gender
affirming care
and anti drag
(18:30):
bills.
Lizzy Lehman (18:32):
Really discouraged and
honestly afraid.
Both of us spent a
good amount of time at
the Capitol this past
year, protesting,
you know, a few things
that they have passed.
And it was just it was
a very scary time and
really exhausting.
And it has made living
here feel more
(18:52):
difficult and
personally, for me and
my spouse, feel like
maybe it's time to go.
Jammy Violet (18:57):
I found out about the
earliest versions of
the drag ban bill on
Thanksgiving of 2022.
I was about to go,
have have Thanksgiving
lunch with my with my
family. A lot of my
family is very conservative.
A lot of my family
isn't.
But it was just
extremely disregulated
to go and sit down and
try to have a nice
dinner. And then just
(19:18):
like I begged you guys
to pay attention to this
stuff, and I know that
you want me here, but
now I got to go.
Miles Bloxson (19:25):
Lizzie told us that
these laws affect how
they feel about performing
live, which is a huge
part of being a musician
in Austin.
Lizzy Lehman (19:33):
I am not playing out
these days.
I'm recording and
releasing music and
writing, but it feels
it feels,
scary to want to to
get up and and perform
and in a public space,
even here in Austin.
One thing that's interesting
is I feel like a lot
of people are like, oh, Austin,
you know, it's really liberal
and it's it's great
(19:53):
there. But it's become
increasingly,
increasingly more
conservative.
And we hear about
more and more hate
crimes happening.
And it just feels
there's a general
sense of unease for a
lot of,
my friends and for
myself, for those who
(20:13):
are in the LGBTQ
community.
Elizabeth McQueen (20:15):
This feeling that
you're feeling, does
it make its way into
the actual art
that you make?
Lizzy Lehman (20:20):
Oh, 100%.
The album that I put
out that Jamie was a
part of, it's called Technicolor
Love. It's really
about queer visibility
and saying, you know,
we've always been here. We
will always be here.
This is a scary thing
for us to to come out
and say, but it has to
be said, you know, at
this point, I don't
think that I could write
about anything else
except for what is
happening. And in my
(20:40):
life and in the world
I don't want to live
in. A monochrome world
with only swirly boys
and dainty girls
rows and rows of
identical.
Only people who are
not alone.
Unidentified (21:00):
I believe, I believe
Technicolor love.
I mean, I mean
Technicolor.
Jammy Violet (21:09):
To Lizzie's point
about like performing
live it, it becomes
this never ending
minefield. Because
when you are a performer,
you're not only a performer,
you're a promoter.
Being non-binary,
queer, trans artists,
visibility is danger.
So our job is to
actively put ourselves
in more and more
danger without fail.
(21:31):
Whenever pelvis wrestling
has a like a higher
visibility moment,
like even being
artist. Not that cuts.
It turns into spending
days combing comment
threads, removing the
death threats.
It becomes this very
strange thing where
it's like, I really
want my project to do
well, and I really want
people to hear this art
that I care so much
(21:51):
about, but also I
don't.
And it's really difficult
to fully want to
succeed when it comes
at such a high cost
and such a high risk.
Miles Bloxson (21:59):
And Jamie has a
really good metaphor
to describe how this
feels.
Jammy Violet (22:04):
Okay, so I used to
have this front yard,
when I was out there
one day, I saw this
just very normal Texas
chameleon. Do you know
the anoles?
And this, like, this
little lizard was
perched on a like,
faded fencepost, and
it was shining bright
green at a
circumstance where it
should, for safety
reasons, be brown.
Gray. Right.
(22:25):
And this was just like
the most gorgeous,
queerest little
dangerous lizard.
And I was just like.
Hey, my little sister.
It's nice to see you.
Visibility is danger.
Lizzy Lehman (22:39):
Absolutely.
You sacrifice a lot to
show and be who you
really are.
Miles Bloxson (22:44):
There's a lot of
people who would hear
what Jamie and Lizzie
are saying and think,
why don't they just
leave?
Elizabeth McQueen (22:50):
Yeah. I mean,
people are leaving.
We heard that in
our last episode
when we talked about the
abortion ban.
And, you know, staying
can be complicated.
Lizzy Lehman (23:00):
It's a combination of
of the heat and
feeling unsafe.
You know, it's two
things that feel
really hard to want to
stay with them.
You know, one of the
most recent songs I've
been working on is
basically talking about,
like, you know, these laws
are telling me I don't
belong here.
I shouldn't feel safe
here. I need to go.
But then all of my
closest friends are
(23:20):
here, and so that's
what makes it so hard.
It's the attachments
and the routes that we've
all set down.
It just makes it that
much harder.
Jammy Violet (23:28):
Okay, I'll get worked
up about this for a
minute. One of the
like, clear goals of
this kind of legislation
is to purify the
populations of certain
states.
It's strategic to get
us out of here.
So Texas is like it's
a very purple state.
It's like one district
readjustment away from
turning blue. That's
one of my, like, more
(23:49):
feet planted.
Come and take it.
If I have a motherland,
this is it.
I love this land so
much. Like I love the
hill country and like
granite.
It's, you know, it's
live oaks and the
country is.
There's nothing.
There's really nothing
like it.
I saw.
To show I'm good to be
(24:10):
alone.
But you can.
Unidentified (24:11):
Hang.
More said and done
even when I.
Until.
Jammy Violet (24:29):
To live comes.
I'm gonna keep on
running.
Elizabeth McQueen (24:33):
Maggie, Caleb,
Jamie and Lizzy.
They're staying
in Austin, but a
lot of people in
their community are
choosing to leave the
city, in part, at
least because of
the laws we've been talking
about.
Like Jack.
Jack Kaulfus (24:46):
My name is Jack Kaulfus
I've lived in Austin
for about 20 years.
I'm a musician and a
writer, and my band
is called Brand New
Quay, wear a queer
Americana band, and
we've been together, we've
been playing for about
ten years.
Elizabeth McQueen (25:00):
Jack told us how
they felt when the legislature
started putting these
laws out there.
They also heard
about these laws
from Equality Texas.
Jack Kaulfus (25:08):
I think that I was
super upset.
More upset than I
thought that I would be.
I think a lot of queer
people, we just sort
of live.
Our lives.
Thinking, you know,
when's the next shoe going
to drop? You know,
they gave us marriage,
but but after
that, like, we were,
we kind of live
prepared for retaliation
(25:29):
in some way.
Like, if we get something,
if we win something,
then there's going to be some
sort of retaliation.
And so, I was
extremely upset one,
because I at the time
was working at a high
school here in Austin,
and we just have a lot
of trans youth at that
school. They're at
every school. But at
(25:49):
that school, they felt
comfortable being out.
They felt comfortable
forming, clubs,
doing activism,
speaking about their
truth, even, pursuing
if they wanted to
gender affirming care.
And they were really supported
in that atmosphere.
And so it was really
difficult to.
(26:09):
To watch them become
afraid because they
grew up in a lot of
them, grew up in Austin
to thinking that we
are this really
beautiful.
Progressive.
Bubble.
And if you just find
your people, then you
can be safe.
But, but
this rhetoric that was
coming out of the legislature
really scared them.
(26:32):
We still did what we
could. But, I mean, as
a teacher and as a
mentor there, I wasn't
able to explain it
away, and I wasn't
able to protect them
from everything they
were hearing on the
radio and on the TV
and from their uncle
at Thanksgiving, you
know.
Miles Bloxson (26:48):
Jack told us they
were initially pretty
surprised by the drag
ban, especially given
how mainstream drag
has become because of
RuPaul's Drag Race.
Jack Kaulfus (26:57):
And so that one was a
big surprise.
But the way that was
worded, the way that
it was originally worded,
it would have come after
trans people, two
trans people who
haven't had every
single surgery,
you know, you know,
and a lot of trans people
don't want all
surgeries, you know.
A lot of us don't.
So, so
(27:18):
that was scary for me
because all of a sudden,
if I was performing on
stage the way that I
dress and just by
existing in this body,
all of a sudden I
could be perceived as
being like, sexually
prurient.
I could have been perceived
as that.
And so I just
immediately like it
just immediately started
(27:39):
a waterfall of
what that would mean
for my band.
Right. We're all
queer in some way, but
I'm the only trans
person, you know, in
the band.
Elizabeth McQueen (27:50):
So could you tell
us a little bit about,
like, where that
waterfall went?
Jack Kaulfus (27:55):
Yeah. So.
Bars already
are having a hard
time, especially
smaller bars, and the
ones that are independently
owned have a hard
time. Just like staying
open. A lot of the
time, it's difficult
to, attract
enough people enough
nights of the week in
order to stay solvent.
(28:16):
And so what I was
thinking was that.
If they book us and
we're just an out
queer band, right.
And and I'm trans and
non-binary and I'm
really open about that
and out,
which is really important
to me, which was really
important to the rest of
the band to where all
out. If there was any
(28:38):
possibility of
somebody just calling
and being like, you know
what? I think you've,
I think you've booked one
of those sexually provocative
bands and sexually
provocative people
because this is a trans
person and we know all
trans people are drag
artists or whatever.
I just believe that,
like any disruption,
either someone calls
the cops or just complains
(28:59):
or gets people not to
go.
I could just see bars,
just not willing to
risk it anymore.
I might as well book
someone who is not
queer and out and.
Avoid that altogether.
So I could just see
bars. Kind of
not not the super
queer bars. Of course
(29:19):
not. Not Cheer Up
Charlies or any of
those great supportive
places, but just, you
know, the band, the,
the bars that pay, you
know, and especially
in the country music
arena, like,
you know, we want to
play at country bars.
Miles Bloxson (29:35):
Jack decided about a
year ago that they
wanted to leave Texas,
and they told us it
wasn't just the laws
we've been talking about
that are prompting
their move.
It's the abortion ban
and the governor's militarization
of the border.
Elizabeth McQueen (29:49):
They also talked about
climate change,
which as we heard
about in a previous
episode, a lot of
people in Austin are
concerned about.
Miles Bloxson (29:56):
And affordability
also plays a role in
their exit from Texas
after the pandemic
hit and rent got
really high.
They had to move
because they couldn't afford
the neighborhood
they've been living
in for 15 years.
Elizabeth McQueen (30:09):
Jack decided to
move to Albuquerque,
New Mexico.
New Mexico is a
state that has laws
that are like
mirror images of
the laws that we have
here in Texas.
Miles Bloxson (30:19):
For instance, there's
House Bill seven.
They got signed into
law and prohibits any
public governments
are agencies from
restricting reproductive
or gender affirming
health care.
Elizabeth McQueen (30:29):
But there's something
else that's pulling
Jack to
Albuquerque.
Jack Kaulfus (30:33):
Okay, this is just
maybe an old person
thing, but I will say
it just reminds me so
much of Austin in the
90s.
There's there's weird
stuff going on
everywhere, and it's.
And no, it's maybe not
even being advertised,
you know.
You know, you walk
around the corner and
there's, a weird
little festival that,
(30:54):
wasn't on Instagram,
wasn't anywhere.
You know, maybe some
Redditors put it up
there or something, but,
and there's still a
lot of, independent
art there, and there's
still a lot of
independent stores
there. So it kind of
feels like walking
back in time,
which at this point in
my life,
(31:16):
I think I feel like I
do need to slow down a
little bit.
And it's really
beautiful there.
The people are have
been super welcoming.
And the queer community
and in the community
at large, every place
has its problems.
I'm not saying it's
perfect. It's not a
perfect place.
I'm sure I will.
Run into lots of problems
as soon as I get involved
(31:36):
in the community, but,
I'm excited to learn
more about that.
It's just the end of
the story, not the
end of life.
Not the barrel of a
shotgun or the wrong
end of a knife.
Talking like I leave
the valley.
Like I got some secret
(31:57):
rope training on my
messed up memories.
One way to get out.
Unidentified (32:02):
Because I'm a star.
I'm not.
Jack Kaulfus (32:07):
I'm not.
Miles Bloxson (32:08):
You, Jack.
We wish you all the
best on your next
adventure.
Now that,
when we interview people,
we always ask if
there's anything they
want to say that we
didn't ask them about.
And we wanted to share
what Caleb said to
us.
Caleb de Casper (32:26):
I just feel like talking
about a lot of these
things can be very
negative.
And I feel like there's like
this dark cloud
over them. But
that's not the point.
Like, the point is
like going through
life. I mean,
people in the
Middle Ages used to
get stabbed walking
down the road, just
like there's always
been things that
(32:47):
you have to
experience in life.
This is our thing
to experience.
So don't get caught
up in there.
The negativity of
it.
Try to figure out what
you can do to help.
Reach out to your
community.
(33:08):
And whatever that is
for you.
Realize.
Then everything is
for entertainment
value at this point
in time.
And take it. Take
it for what it is.
Miles Bloxson (33:23):
And how can people
that maybe like never
thought about supporting
the LGBTQi community?
How can they step in
and play a role or
play their part?
Caleb de Casper (33:36):
Hmhm.
I'm trying to think of like.
I shouldn't have to think
about that that much.
But I want like, the real
answer, not the like,
performative answer.
Right.
Like.
Just I showing
up.
I'd say yeah,
that's a big thing.
Like.
(33:57):
Show up and support
people trying to do
things in your community.
Show up and cheer
on a queer musician
or a drag queen
and be there and
and watch and make
sure there's no
crazy person in the
audience, you know,
because that's what
you can do.
Unidentified (34:19):
Brother. Love a
lovely, lovely.
Miles Bloxson (34:36):
In the next episode
of Pause Play, we'll
be talking about
changes in ticketing
and how that's
impacting Austin's
live music scene.
Elizabeth McQueen (34:47):
Cosplay is a
listener supported
production of CT
and CT Studios in
Austin, Texas.
Miles Bloxson (34:53):
It is reported
produced and hosted
by me, Myles Bloxham.
Elizabeth McQueen (34:56):
And me Elizabeth
McQueen and you
can support our work
by becoming a sustaining
member at support
This Podcast
dawg.
Our executive producer
is Matt Riley.
Miles Bloxson (35:06):
Zachary Crim helps
write, record and
edit this episode.
Production assistants
by his signature.
Elizabeth McQueen (35:12):
Jake Perlman and
Matt Largey also
helped with editing
and audio production.
Miles Bloxson (35:16):
Stephanie Federico is
our digital editor.
Michael Manasi is our
multimedia editor.
Elizabeth McQueen (35:21):
Special thanks to
Todd Callahan and
Peter Babb for their
technical support
and guidance.
Miles Bloxson (35:26):
Original music for
this episode was
created by the talented
Jaron Marshall.
I'm Elizabeth McQueen.
Miles Bloxson (00:03):
And I'm Myles Bloxson.
And you're listening to
Pause play.
A podcast about live
music, why it matters
and what comes next.
Elizabeth McQueen (00:13):
This season,
we're exploring
some changes that are
impacting Austin's
live music scene.
Miles Bloxson (00:18):
In the last episode,
we looked at how the
Texas abortion ban
was affecting women
working in the Austin
music ecosystem.
Elizabeth McQueen (00:25):
And in this episode,
we're taking a look
at how proposed
bans on drag
performances and
laws outlawing
gender affirming
care for minors
are impacting
LGBTQIa plus
members of our
music community.
Miles Bloxson (00:37):
In the last legislative
session, two bills
were signed into law.
One was SB 12, aka
the drag ban.
Elizabeth McQueen (00:44):
We asked our friend Sergio,
who's a national correspondent
for NPR and who
you heard in the last
episode to help
us understand SB
12.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (00:52):
This bill
in particular
would ban
drag shows
that are
explicit in
front of minors.
What explicit
means? I
think that's part of
the question.
Right. And one of the things
that critics have said
is going against
their First Amendment
rights, because
what we've heard is that,
you know, initially Republicans
were pushing
(01:13):
almost to ban
all drag shows
in front of minors.
But then they had to make
this classification
of, you know, if it's
too sexual in
nature, if
there's,
fake breasts
or this
exaggeration
of body parts
to sexualized
a character,
then in that case,
that cannot happen
in front of minors,
which means that
(01:34):
drag queens
or drag kings
would not be able
to perform
at a parade,
or would not be able
to perform
at a birthday
where there might be kids.
Right? Because
of of this
law.
Elizabeth McQueen (01:45):
Even though SB 12
was signed into law,
it was blocked by a
federal judge for
being unconstitutional.
So the drag ban
is not in effect
in Texas.
Miles Bloxson (01:54):
But a lot of
musicians and performers,
especially those who
identify as queer,
were involved in the
movement to stop the
passage of SB 12.
Elizabeth McQueen (02:03):
In that same
legislative session,
the Texas Legislature
also passed a ban
on gender affirming
care for minors.
Miles Bloxson (02:09):
We ask Sergio to walk
us through the bill
and what gender
affirming care really
means.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (02:15):
Yeah, so for each
state that
is different
and that looks different.
In Texas in particular,
we're talking about
a prohibition
on gender
affirming care, which
means hormone
therapy or
puberty blockers
or surgery
like top surgery
to remove breasts
on transgender
men if you
are under 18
(02:35):
years old. So
that means that
if you are
a minor, you cannot
access this
type of
therapy.
Elizabeth McQueen (02:42):
In his reporting,
Sergio talked to
both trans people
who oppose the bill
and Republicans
who supported it.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (02:48):
I've talked to many folks
who have said that
as adults now,
they transition when
they were younger,
and they've said that having
access to these
medical treatments
were life saving
for them
because they
were clear that they wanted
to transition. But
Republicans in the
legislature, who have
been the ones pushing
for for
this type of legislation,
they've said that,
you know,
kids don't
(03:08):
fully know
what they want
to do with their
lives, that
their brains take longer
to develop,
and that, doing
this type of therapy
on them earlier,
it's equivalent
to abuse. That's
what they've said. And so
they've said that they
really don't want
kids to have access
to these. Yet.
Miles Bloxson (03:25):
We wanted to know how
SB 12 and SB 14
have been affecting
members of our LGBTQIa
plus community.
Elizabeth McQueen (03:32):
One person we spoke
to was Maggie.
Yeah.
Maggie Lea (03:35):
My name is Maggie Lea.
I, co-own chair of
Charlie's, music
venue, bar, LGBTQ
space downtown and,
program stuff there, and
just general community
organizer, I guess.
Elizabeth McQueen (03:50):
We've talked to Maggie
a lot in this
podcast, especially
during the pandemic.
You should go back and
listen to those episodes
if you want to know what
things were like for
Austin venue
owners during the most
intense Covid
times, Chair.
Miles Bloxson (04:02):
Of Charlie's has always
put on a mix of live
shows, drag shows and
dance parties, and
Maggie saw the signs
that the legislature
might be trying to
restrict drag pretty
early on.
Maggie Lea (04:14):
I got word of
it right when I think
Equality Texas.
I made a post about it
so pretty early because
they did come out with
it really, really ahead
of other folks.
And then, my dog sitter
works at the at the
legislature.
It was kind of like I
had heard the rumblings
about all these
different, anti
(04:35):
LGBTQ bills
that were that were
about to be released.
And, I
think, like, you know,
because I caught wind of
it, I,
I remember I made a post
about it on cheer.
I was kind of just
telling the community,
like, hey, we need to
gather and, get
(04:55):
together.
And this is possibly
going to be a bigger
fight than we think.
Elizabeth McQueen (05:00):
Maggie and her
partner Tamara,
who also owns
Cheer Up Charlie's,
did spend some
time at the legislature.
They actually signed
up to testify
against the drag
ban, but were
never called to speak.
But mostly they
support. The seen
through holding drag
shows.
Maggie Lea (05:15):
So one of my really good
friends is as Bridget
Bandaged.
Miles Bloxson (05:18):
Bridget abandoned is
a drag queen who in
some ways became the
face of the fight
against the drag ban.
Maggie Lea (05:24):
She's like both probably
talked to her throughout
the whole day. We're like
really great friends.
And I, to be frank,
like, it would be funny
if she heard this, but I
honestly was sort of
afraid to,
decrease any of our drag
programing.
She would have just had
a fit and yell at all of
us. Part of protesting,
I think, for all of us,
(05:44):
was to,
just go on about
business as we normally
would. And we were kind
of in a period where we
were having more drag
shows as it was.
And actually the drag
shows were bringing in
more people, because
people coming to drag
shows was kind of their
way of, of, you know,
(06:04):
participating in the
activism.
So the drag shows were
actually packed out.
They were more packed
out than our dance
parties, way more packed
out than when we were
just booking, like some
live music for whatever
reason. You know, drag
was the thing.
Last summer, everybody
wanted to book a drag
show. It was like
a lot of non queer owned
(06:24):
spaces were booking drag
shows, hotel lobbies.
I mean, every place was
a drag show.
It felt like last
summer, like pool parties.
So yeah, I mean we
kind of increased
our shows.
It was it was like a few
like maybe 3 or 4 fold.
It was a protest.
It was a fight against
(06:46):
what was going on in the
legislature.
But he was
kind of. Sometimes I
think the the best way
to stand up to
something is just to be
like, well, I'm actually
having a great time
doing it. I'm not going
to think about what
might happen
if you guys decide this
is illegal for whatever
(07:06):
reason.
And I really did think
it would be pretty hard
for them to decide
that being yourself was
illegal.
Elizabeth McQueen (07:14):
But Maggie told
us it wasn't all
fun.
Maggie Lea (07:17):
You know, one dark sort
of shadow side of last
year was that while we
were putting on all these
drag shows and having a
lot of fun doing it,
I could tell, you know,
folks in our community
were super burnt out.
There was very
just a looming sense
of,
(07:38):
not knowing if we would
have our spaces that,
you know, we consider
spaces that we can be
free to be ourselves.
I saw a lot of, like,
infighting, competition
within our community,
like, really high level
kind of hateful things.
I felt like within the
community, folks were
(07:58):
just burnt out.
They were tired.
I mean, there were there
was a scarcity
mindset that really did
just really sink in.
By the end of December.
It was it was actually
tough to put on drag
shows, you know, as a
venue producer.
And I just know for a
fact I talked to a lot
of folks in our industry.
(08:19):
It was oversaturated
because there were so
many,
non queer owned spaces
that were kind of
replicating.
I think they were replicating
what we were all doing
in support, but I didn't
I don't know that they
realized that they were
actually just it became
like a lot of performers
were like physically,
you know, the physical
(08:40):
labor part of it was
like full on burnout for
them. And,
the spaces that started
these, like queer events
and parties were just
left empty.
Miles Bloxson (08:51):
By the end of 2023.
Sheriff Charlie's was
in a tough place.
Maggie Lea (08:56):
Yeah, we almost we
almost closed.
I mean, we had to, like,
re pivot.
Right? Right before
South. By this year, I
spent sort of the winter
months like, okay, we
have drag shows but I'm
spreading them out.
I'm bringing back live
music, I'm bringing back
our dance parties and
all kinds of other stuff
like comedy events and
stuff, just to sustain
the business.
Elizabeth McQueen (09:16):
And Maggie told
us it wasn't just
the legislation
aimed at her community
that made 2023 a
hard year for cheer
ups.
Miles Bloxson (09:23):
Chair ups is an outdoor
venue, and like we
talked about in our
episode about climate
change last summer
with its record
breaking heat, was
tough on a lot of
outdoor venues.
Maggie Lea (09:34):
It was terribly hard
to, like, process all
this that was going
on in the legislature
and try to have events
at your space and be hit
by pretty much just
unending heat.
Miles Bloxson (09:46):
And there were other
factors as well.
Maggie Lea (09:49):
I haven't totally
processed it. It was
such a it's such a
difficult year for us,
and we were struggling
financially the entire
time because it was also
sort of the year that
any venue, queer
programing or not, was
coming out of
the pandemic like that,
them three year mark
or 2 or 3 year mark,
where our folks were
(10:09):
like, oh my gosh, it's
time to pay back my
loans. It's time to, you
know, and now, like all
the inflation was
happening and now like,
you know, everything I,
all the money I thought
I had in my bank account
is actually going back
towards, loan payments
or so. A lot of places
closed last year.
I mean, this year as
well.
(10:30):
It was just already a
financially difficult
year. And to add layer
of like, the community,
the friendships, the
politics, state
of Texas politics, all
of it. It was very hard.
Elizabeth McQueen (10:50):
We also wanted to
know what this time
was like for musicians
like Caleb.
Caleb de Casper (10:54):
I'm Caleb de
Casper.
I am a local
musician and I
guess political
activist. Now.
Miles Bloxson (11:02):
Caleb uses elements
of glam rock in drag
in his act. And when
he first heard about
the bill seeking to
ban drag shows in
Jinja affirming care,
he didn't really think
it would go anywhere.
Elizabeth McQueen (11:13):
But then
something changed.
Caleb de Casper (11:15):
I guess when I started
to see other people
in the community also.
Like speaking on it
and posting about
it. I was like, maybe
this is a little bit more
serious than what I
thought.
Specifically, I
saw, like, Maggie
from Cheer UPS was
starting to post about
it.
And so that's a person
who owns a business.
So it's like they're not
(11:36):
going to.
Go on a ledge for
something that's not real,
you know?
Then I saw, my
friend Brigitte.
Bandit, who was.
Really well known
in the drag community
and not really well
known globally because
of, you know, her
part in all of this.
And so those are people
that I trusted
(11:57):
their judgment.
And I started to look
into it more. And I
was like,
yeah, this actually
might might happen.
Miles Bloxson (12:05):
Caleb started going
to the legislature
every day.
He even testified
about SB 12.
Caleb de Casper (12:11):
Welcome.
Sergio Martínez-Beltrán (12:11):
Introduce yourself
and your testimony.
Caleb de Casper (12:13):
Hi there.
It looks like I'm going
to bring this thing home.
I'm Caleb the
Casper, and I've
been a resident of Austin
for seven years.
I am opposed to
both of the bills,
SB 12 and
the, reading
to cats, drag
queens, reading the kids
bill.
I'm a well-known and
(12:34):
successful musician
across Central Texas,
and I wear both male
and female clothing
on and off stage.
I hope that me talking
to you today will show
you that drag
encompasses more
than you think.
First off, as a citizen,
I'm deeply concerned
with the amount of anti
LGBTQ plus bills
making their way through this
legislative session
when issues of homelessness
and mental illness
(12:55):
illegal, illegal
our state and we
seem to have a problem
with keeping the lights
on in the winter.
It doesn't feel appropriate
to be concerned with
drag queens at this
time.
As a small business
owner, I have a
concern that if
this bill goes through
the fact that I wear
high heels and makeup
on stage, just like
Kiss or Motley Crew
two would severely
limit my options
(13:15):
for doing business
in the state.
I wouldn't be booked
for festivals such
as ACL, or I could
be arrested if
there are children in
the audience at
music festivals.
And it reads to me
like, South Bay
happened a couple of weeks
ago and I was
booked at storefronts
and I was booked at
corporate events.
If there were children
there, I could have been
arrested for making
(13:36):
art because I wear
high heels and lipstick
when I perform with my
band.
Elizabeth McQueen (13:39):
But Caleb told us
that all this time
at the Capitol,
it really took a toll.
Caleb de Casper (13:45):
I, I guess the best
way to describe it
is after.
This session. I
took six months off
from my life.
So I had a lot of
other stuff going on
because I always have stuff
going on, but that
every single day
(14:05):
was so much.
And the things that I
learned and the people
that I met and the
things that I heard
were just outrageous.
And so much to
process day to day.
And one thing that we
were told by Equality
Texas when we're
there is that
like, you need to
take time for yourself
or you will burn out,
(14:25):
which I did
because.
You don't know if
people there want
to hurt you.
You don't know if
there are mentally
unwell people there.
You're.
On a spotlight
while you're there, especially
if you're a person that people
are listening to.
And we did encounter
(14:46):
people who are on
these like pseudo
news podcast
like Infowars
and whatnot.
And I watch them
instigate
altercations with
people so they
could film it and say,
look at what these
horrible people did.
So the whole time you're
there, you're like
burning through
(15:07):
your adrenaline and
you're burning through all
those chemicals in
your body. So you go home
at the end of the day and you
are just totally wiped
out.
Elizabeth McQueen (15:15):
And Caleb thinks
there was an unintended
consequence to
these bills.
Caleb de Casper (15:19):
When you and ty
things, you make them
really cool.
So right now, going
to a drag show or
supporting a queer
band, it's more
than just watching
music. You're like
showing people what
you think and who
you are.
And they did that
eventually.
Miles Bloxson (15:37):
Like we said, both
the drag ban in the
ban on gender
affirming care pass
the drag ban would go
on to be ruled
unconstitutional.
And Caleb said the
whole process will
definitely make its
way into his art.
Caleb de Casper (15:50):
My first album was
like finding myself
as an artist and as
a queer person, and
that translated well
to like all people.
And that was a very
Salvatore.
And, a celebratory,
anthem Bass Lake
album.
Very positive.
Self-Empowerment.
(16:11):
But my next album.
Is a little bit darker.
Because this is what
I've experienced
now.
So I'm trying to find ways
to write about.
Realistic things
without pessimism,
and it's going to be different.
Unidentified (16:38):
Inside of my head.
They made it to my
snow party to see me
all red.
Elizabeth McQueen (16:48):
Coming up after the
break, we speak
to more LGBTQIa
plus artists
about how proposed
restrictions on drag
shows and the ban
on gender affirming
care for minors
have impacted their
life and art.
Miles Bloxson (17:01):
Welcome back to Paul's
Play, a podcast about
live music, why it
matters and what
comes next.
Earlier, you heard
from venue owner
Maggie Lee and
musician Caleb the
Casper about how
recent anti-LGBTQ
laws have affected
them.
Elizabeth McQueen (17:16):
We also spoke to
Austin musicians
Lizzy and Jamie.
Lizzy Lehman (17:19):
My name is Lizzy Lehman,
and I'm a musician and
artist here in Austin,
Texas, and I've been
here since 2011 and
very excited to be here
today.
Jammy Violet (17:30):
My name is Jammy
Violet. My band is
called Pelvis Wrestley
and I'm also happy to
be here today.
Miles Bloxson (17:36):
How long have you
lived in Austin,
Jamie?
Jammy Violet (17:39):
Well, I grew up in
Austin, was raised in
Oak Hill until I
turned 18 and just
couldn't wait to get out of
here.
And then I went to
Seattle for a while,
and then I couldn't wait
to get out of there.
So I came back in fall
of 2016, and I've been
here since then.
Elizabeth McQueen (17:55):
And Lizzy, you said you
got here in 2011.
Where did you come from?
Lizzy Lehman (17:59):
I was in Austin in
2009 and then
went back to Portland,
and then came back to
Austin in 2011.
But I'm originally from
Evanston, Illinois,
outside of Chicago.
Elizabeth McQueen (18:09):
So you guys have
been in Austin for
a while. You both
have chosen to
live in Austin,
but things have changed,
you know, recently,
especially in this last
year with the legislative
session. How did
you kind of feel
when you saw that
that was happening,
like at the very beginning
when you saw that the legislature
was starting to float
these anti gender
affirming care
and anti drag
(18:30):
bills.
Lizzy Lehman (18:32):
Really discouraged and
honestly afraid.
Both of us spent a
good amount of time at
the Capitol this past
year, protesting,
you know, a few things
that they have passed.
And it was just it was
a very scary time and
really exhausting.
And it has made living
here feel more
(18:52):
difficult and
personally, for me and
my spouse, feel like
maybe it's time to go.
Jammy Violet (18:57):
I found out about the
earliest versions of
the drag ban bill on
Thanksgiving of 2022.
I was about to go,
have have Thanksgiving
lunch with my with my
family. A lot of my
family is very conservative.
A lot of my family
isn't.
But it was just
extremely disregulated
to go and sit down and
try to have a nice
dinner. And then just
(19:18):
like I begged you guys
to pay attention to this
stuff, and I know that
you want me here, but
now I got to go.
Miles Bloxson (19:25):
Lizzie told us that
these laws affect how
they feel about performing
live, which is a huge
part of being a musician
in Austin.
Lizzy Lehman (19:33):
I am not playing out
these days.
I'm recording and
releasing music and
writing, but it feels
it feels,
scary to want to to
get up and and perform
and in a public space,
even here in Austin.
One thing that's interesting
is I feel like a lot
of people are like, oh, Austin,
you know, it's really liberal
and it's it's great
(19:53):
there. But it's become
increasingly,
increasingly more
conservative.
And we hear about
more and more hate
crimes happening.
And it just feels
there's a general
sense of unease for a
lot of,
my friends and for
myself, for those who
(20:13):
are in the LGBTQ
community.
Elizabeth McQueen (20:15):
This feeling that
you're feeling, does
it make its way into
the actual art
that you make?
Lizzy Lehman (20:20):
Oh, 100%.
The album that I put
out that Jamie was a
part of, it's called Technicolor
Love. It's really
about queer visibility
and saying, you know,
we've always been here. We
will always be here.
This is a scary thing
for us to to come out
and say, but it has to
be said, you know, at
this point, I don't
think that I could write
about anything else
except for what is
happening. And in my
(20:40):
life and in the world
I don't want to live
in. A monochrome world
with only swirly boys
and dainty girls
rows and rows of
identical.
Only people who are
not alone.
Unidentified (21:00):
I believe, I believe
Technicolor love.
I mean, I mean
Technicolor.
Jammy Violet (21:09):
To Lizzie's point
about like performing
live it, it becomes
this never ending
minefield. Because
when you are a performer,
you're not only a performer,
you're a promoter.
Being non-binary,
queer, trans artists,
visibility is danger.
So our job is to
actively put ourselves
in more and more
danger without fail.
(21:31):
Whenever pelvis wrestling
has a like a higher
visibility moment,
like even being
artist. Not that cuts.
It turns into spending
days combing comment
threads, removing the
death threats.
It becomes this very
strange thing where
it's like, I really
want my project to do
well, and I really want
people to hear this art
that I care so much
(21:51):
about, but also I
don't.
And it's really difficult
to fully want to
succeed when it comes
at such a high cost
and such a high risk.
Miles Bloxson (21:59):
And Jamie has a
really good metaphor
to describe how this
feels.
Jammy Violet (22:04):
Okay, so I used to
have this front yard,
when I was out there
one day, I saw this
just very normal Texas
chameleon. Do you know
the anoles?
And this, like, this
little lizard was
perched on a like,
faded fencepost, and
it was shining bright
green at a
circumstance where it
should, for safety
reasons, be brown.
Gray. Right.
(22:25):
And this was just like
the most gorgeous,
queerest little
dangerous lizard.
And I was just like.
Hey, my little sister.
It's nice to see you.
Visibility is danger.
Lizzy Lehman (22:39):
Absolutely.
You sacrifice a lot to
show and be who you
really are.
Miles Bloxson (22:44):
There's a lot of
people who would hear
what Jamie and Lizzie
are saying and think,
why don't they just
leave?
Elizabeth McQueen (22:50):
Yeah. I mean,
people are leaving.
We heard that in
our last episode
when we talked about the
abortion ban.
And, you know, staying
can be complicated.
Lizzy Lehman (23:00):
It's a combination of
of the heat and
feeling unsafe.
You know, it's two
things that feel
really hard to want to
stay with them.
You know, one of the
most recent songs I've
been working on is
basically talking about,
like, you know, these laws
are telling me I don't
belong here.
I shouldn't feel safe
here. I need to go.
But then all of my
closest friends are
(23:20):
here, and so that's
what makes it so hard.
It's the attachments
and the routes that we've
all set down.
It just makes it that
much harder.
Jammy Violet (23:28):
Okay, I'll get worked
up about this for a
minute. One of the
like, clear goals of
this kind of legislation
is to purify the
populations of certain
states.
It's strategic to get
us out of here.
So Texas is like it's
a very purple state.
It's like one district
readjustment away from
turning blue. That's
one of my, like, more
(23:49):
feet planted.
Come and take it.
If I have a motherland,
this is it.
I love this land so
much. Like I love the
hill country and like
granite.
It's, you know, it's
live oaks and the
country is.
There's nothing.
There's really nothing
like it.
I saw.
To show I'm good to be
(24:10):
alone.
But you can.
Unidentified (24:11):
Hang.
More said and done
even when I.
Until.
Jammy Violet (24:29):
To live comes.
I'm gonna keep on
running.
Elizabeth McQueen (24:33):
Maggie, Caleb,
Jamie and Lizzy.
They're staying
in Austin, but a
lot of people in
their community are
choosing to leave the
city, in part, at
least because of
the laws we've been talking
about.
Like Jack.
Jack Kaulfus (24:46):
My name is Jack Kaulfus
I've lived in Austin
for about 20 years.
I'm a musician and a
writer, and my band
is called Brand New
Quay, wear a queer
Americana band, and
we've been together, we've
been playing for about
ten years.
Elizabeth McQueen (25:00):
Jack told us how
they felt when the legislature
started putting these
laws out there.
They also heard
about these laws
from Equality Texas.
Jack Kaulfus (25:08):
I think that I was
super upset.
More upset than I
thought that I would be.
I think a lot of queer
people, we just sort
of live.
Our lives.
Thinking, you know,
when's the next shoe going
to drop? You know,
they gave us marriage,
but but after
that, like, we were,
we kind of live
prepared for retaliation
(25:29):
in some way.
Like, if we get something,
if we win something,
then there's going to be some
sort of retaliation.
And so, I was
extremely upset one,
because I at the time
was working at a high
school here in Austin,
and we just have a lot
of trans youth at that
school. They're at
every school. But at
(25:49):
that school, they felt
comfortable being out.
They felt comfortable
forming, clubs,
doing activism,
speaking about their
truth, even, pursuing
if they wanted to
gender affirming care.
And they were really supported
in that atmosphere.
And so it was really
difficult to.
(26:09):
To watch them become
afraid because they
grew up in a lot of
them, grew up in Austin
to thinking that we
are this really
beautiful.
Progressive.
Bubble.
And if you just find
your people, then you
can be safe.
But, but
this rhetoric that was
coming out of the legislature
really scared them.
(26:32):
We still did what we
could. But, I mean, as
a teacher and as a
mentor there, I wasn't
able to explain it
away, and I wasn't
able to protect them
from everything they
were hearing on the
radio and on the TV
and from their uncle
at Thanksgiving, you
know.
Miles Bloxson (26:48):
Jack told us they
were initially pretty
surprised by the drag
ban, especially given
how mainstream drag
has become because of
RuPaul's Drag Race.
Jack Kaulfus (26:57):
And so that one was a
big surprise.
But the way that was
worded, the way that
it was originally worded,
it would have come after
trans people, two
trans people who
haven't had every
single surgery,
you know, you know,
and a lot of trans people
don't want all
surgeries, you know.
A lot of us don't.
So, so
(27:18):
that was scary for me
because all of a sudden,
if I was performing on
stage the way that I
dress and just by
existing in this body,
all of a sudden I
could be perceived as
being like, sexually
prurient.
I could have been perceived
as that.
And so I just
immediately like it
just immediately started
(27:39):
a waterfall of
what that would mean
for my band.
Right. We're all
queer in some way, but
I'm the only trans
person, you know, in
the band.
Elizabeth McQueen (27:50):
So could you tell
us a little bit about,
like, where that
waterfall went?
Jack Kaulfus (27:55):
Yeah. So.
Bars already
are having a hard
time, especially
smaller bars, and the
ones that are independently
owned have a hard
time. Just like staying
open. A lot of the
time, it's difficult
to, attract
enough people enough
nights of the week in
order to stay solvent.
(28:16):
And so what I was
thinking was that.
If they book us and
we're just an out
queer band, right.
And and I'm trans and
non-binary and I'm
really open about that
and out,
which is really important
to me, which was really
important to the rest of
the band to where all
out. If there was any
(28:38):
possibility of
somebody just calling
and being like, you know
what? I think you've,
I think you've booked one
of those sexually provocative
bands and sexually
provocative people
because this is a trans
person and we know all
trans people are drag
artists or whatever.
I just believe that,
like any disruption,
either someone calls
the cops or just complains
(28:59):
or gets people not to
go.
I could just see bars,
just not willing to
risk it anymore.
I might as well book
someone who is not
queer and out and.
Avoid that altogether.
So I could just see
bars. Kind of
not not the super
queer bars. Of course
(29:19):
not. Not Cheer Up
Charlies or any of
those great supportive
places, but just, you
know, the band, the,
the bars that pay, you
know, and especially
in the country music
arena, like,
you know, we want to
play at country bars.
Miles Bloxson (29:35):
Jack decided about a
year ago that they
wanted to leave Texas,
and they told us it
wasn't just the laws
we've been talking about
that are prompting
their move.
It's the abortion ban
and the governor's militarization
of the border.
Elizabeth McQueen (29:49):
They also talked about
climate change,
which as we heard
about in a previous
episode, a lot of
people in Austin are
concerned about.
Miles Bloxson (29:56):
And affordability
also plays a role in
their exit from Texas
after the pandemic
hit and rent got
really high.
They had to move
because they couldn't afford
the neighborhood
they've been living
in for 15 years.
Elizabeth McQueen (30:09):
Jack decided to
move to Albuquerque,
New Mexico.
New Mexico is a
state that has laws
that are like
mirror images of
the laws that we have
here in Texas.
Miles Bloxson (30:19):
For instance, there's
House Bill seven.
They got signed into
law and prohibits any
public governments
are agencies from
restricting reproductive
or gender affirming
health care.
Elizabeth McQueen (30:29):
But there's something
else that's pulling
Jack to
Albuquerque.
Jack Kaulfus (30:33):
Okay, this is just
maybe an old person
thing, but I will say
it just reminds me so
much of Austin in the
90s.
There's there's weird
stuff going on
everywhere, and it's.
And no, it's maybe not
even being advertised,
you know.
You know, you walk
around the corner and
there's, a weird
little festival that,
(30:54):
wasn't on Instagram,
wasn't anywhere.
You know, maybe some
Redditors put it up
there or something, but,
and there's still a
lot of, independent
art there, and there's
still a lot of
independent stores
there. So it kind of
feels like walking
back in time,
which at this point in
my life,
(31:16):
I think I feel like I
do need to slow down a
little bit.
And it's really
beautiful there.
The people are have
been super welcoming.
And the queer community
and in the community
at large, every place
has its problems.
I'm not saying it's
perfect. It's not a
perfect place.
I'm sure I will.
Run into lots of problems
as soon as I get involved
(31:36):
in the community, but,
I'm excited to learn
more about that.
It's just the end of
the story, not the
end of life.
Not the barrel of a
shotgun or the wrong
end of a knife.
Talking like I leave
the valley.
Like I got some secret
(31:57):
rope training on my
messed up memories.
One way to get out.
Unidentified (32:02):
Because I'm a star.
I'm not.
Jack Kaulfus (32:07):
I'm not.
Miles Bloxson (32:08):
You, Jack.
We wish you all the
best on your next
adventure.
Now that,
when we interview people,
we always ask if
there's anything they
want to say that we
didn't ask them about.
And we wanted to share
what Caleb said to
us.
Caleb de Casper (32:26):
I just feel like talking
about a lot of these
things can be very
negative.
And I feel like there's like
this dark cloud
over them. But
that's not the point.
Like, the point is
like going through
life. I mean,
people in the
Middle Ages used to
get stabbed walking
down the road, just
like there's always
been things that
(32:47):
you have to
experience in life.
This is our thing
to experience.
So don't get caught
up in there.
The negativity of
it.
Try to figure out what
you can do to help.
Reach out to your
community.
(33:08):
And whatever that is
for you.
Realize.
Then everything is
for entertainment
value at this point
in time.
And take it. Take
it for what it is.
Miles Bloxson (33:23):
And how can people
that maybe like never
thought about supporting
the LGBTQi community?
How can they step in
and play a role or
play their part?
Caleb de Casper (33:36):
Hmhm.
I'm trying to think of like.
I shouldn't have to think
about that that much.
But I want like, the real
answer, not the like,
performative answer.
Right.
Like.
Just I showing
up.
I'd say yeah,
that's a big thing.
Like.
(33:57):
Show up and support
people trying to do
things in your community.
Show up and cheer
on a queer musician
or a drag queen
and be there and
and watch and make
sure there's no
crazy person in the
audience, you know,
because that's what
you can do.
Unidentified (34:19):
Brother. Love a
lovely, lovely.
Miles Bloxson (34:36):
In the next episode
of Pause Play, we'll
be talking about
changes in ticketing
and how that's
impacting Austin's
live music scene.
Elizabeth McQueen (34:47):
Cosplay is a
listener supported
production of CT
and CT Studios in
Austin, Texas.
Miles Bloxson (34:53):
It is reported
produced and hosted
by me, Myles Bloxham.
Elizabeth McQueen (34:56):
And me Elizabeth
McQueen and you
can support our work
by becoming a sustaining
member at support
This Podcast
dawg.
Our executive producer
is Matt Riley.
Miles Bloxson (35:06):
Zachary Crim helps
write, record and
edit this episode.
Production assistants
by his signature.
Elizabeth McQueen (35:12):
Jake Perlman and
Matt Largey also
helped with editing
and audio production.
Miles Bloxson (35:16):
Stephanie Federico is
our digital editor.
Michael Manasi is our
multimedia editor.
Elizabeth McQueen (35:21):
Special thanks to
Todd Callahan and
Peter Babb for their
technical support
and guidance.
Miles Bloxson (35:26):
Original music for
this episode was
created by the talented
Jaron Marshall.
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