June 8, 2025 • 23 mins
Amy Downs - Hope is a Verb
Join us on Peaceful Life Radio as we delve into the extraordinary story of Amy Downs, a survivor of the Oklahoma City bombing. In this episode, Amy shares her transformation from a 355-pound couch potato to an Ironman triathlete, from a flunkout to earning an MBA, and from a bank teller to the CEO of the very credit union devastated by the bombing. Listen as Amy discusses the principle of intentional living, the power of breaking down goals into little steps, and the concept of 'hope as a verb.' Amy's resilience and determination are sure to inspire as she recounts her journey of self-improvement and empowerment. Don't miss this compelling episode!
00:00 Introduction to Amy Downs
01:26 Surviving the Oklahoma City Bombing
05:40 Embracing a Second Chance at Life
09:08 Transforming Through Small Steps
10:33 Physical and Professional Transformations
15:34 Writing 'Hope is a Verb'
18:21 Living Intentionally in the Second Half of Life
21:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Downs (00:00):
Hope is the belief that your future can be better
(00:03):
and brighter than your past, andthat you actually play a role in
making that happen.
David Lowry (00:08):
That was Amy Downs, our guest today on Peaceful Life
Radio.
She was one of the lastsurvivors to be pulled from the
rubble following the OklahomaCity bombing.
You're listening to PeacefulLife Radio.
I'm David Lowry, and my buddyDon Drew's with us today, Don.
Don Drew (00:23):
Hello, David.
David Lowry (00:24):
Hey, why don't you introduce our guest and get us
started?
Don Drew (00:28):
Absolutely.
Amy and I have known each other,I think for about 25 years now.
She's an old friend.
As way of introducing her, Ijust wanna mention that in 1995,
she, as you said, David was oneof the last survivors pulled
from the rubble of the OklahomaCity bombing, and 168 people
were killed there including 18of her, 33 coworkers at the
Federal employees Credit Union.
(00:50):
Embracing her second chance atlife, amy launched a campaign of
self-improvement andempowerment.
She went from a 355 pound couchpotato to completing a full
Ironman triathlon.
From flunking out of math classto earning her master's degree
in business administration.
From a teller to CEO of the samecredit union nearly destroyed in
the bombing.
(01:10):
Amy is now a full-time speakerand author of the book, Hope is
a Verb, which is available onAmazon.
Most recently, Amy was featuredin two documentaries produced by
National Geographic and Netflix.
Amy, welcome to Peaceful LifeRadio.
Amy Downs (01:24):
I'm glad to be here.
What an honor.
Don Drew (01:26):
Amy, I know you're asked a lot about what happened
to you and so many of yourfriends on April 19th, 1995.
Everything changed for you onthat day, didn't it?
Amy Downs (01:34):
Yes, it did.
Don Drew (01:35):
Can you tell us a little bit about that
experience?
Amy Downs (01:37):
Sure, absolutely.
I was 28 years old and workingat a little financial
institution, a credit union inthe Murra Federal Building in
downtown Oklahoma City.
And I might add, by the way,that.
I know you're an educator.
I know that you value education,Dawn.
I did not at that time in mylife, and I had flunked outta
(01:59):
math class.
The remedial math class incollege, not even the one you
get credit hours for.
So I was struggling a little bitin trying to figure out what I
wanted to be when I grew up andcollege didn't seem to be an
option.
So I ended up with my amazingmath skills, applying for a job
at this little financialinstitution to work as a teller.
(02:19):
I had been there for about sevenyears, and on the morning of
April 19th, I was running aroundthat morning, super excited
because I was getting ready tobuy my first house and I was
talking to everybody about thehouse chitchatting.
I remember looking at my watchand thinking, oh my gosh, it's
almost nine o'clock and I hadnot done any work.
I better get to work or I'mgonna get in trouble, and I run
(02:41):
down the hall to, to sit down atmy desk and.
One of my coworkers, who wasseven months pregnant, was
sitting right beside me waitingto ask me a question, and when I
turned to ask her what sheneeded, I'm not sure if the
words ever made it outta mymouth or not.
That's when the bomb went off.
And I remember just hearing thisincredible roaring noise in my
(03:04):
head that was so loud that myfirst thought was I had been
shot in the head.
That was the only thing I.
Could possibly cause that.
When you work for a financialinstitution, you're always a
little bit worried aboutrobbery, so that's why I think I
immediately thought, maybe arobbery had gone wrong and I
could hear people screaming.
(03:25):
And then I also was feeling thisfalling sensation like I was
falling.
I found out later that I wasfalling.
I fell three floors.
I was still in my desk chair,upside down, buried under about
10 feet of rubble.
So shortly after, I hear thisroaring and all this screaming
and this falling feeling.
All of a sudden everything goescompletely quiet and I can't
(03:48):
move and I cannot see.
It's very hard to breathe andextremely hot, and I have no
idea what has happened.
No clue.
And I thought for a second Ithought, am I dead?
Did something happen and I'mnot, and I'm dead.
Then I could hear a siren goingoff in the distance.
And I decided, okay I'm, I muststill be alive.
(04:09):
I can hear this siren.
But it was about 45 minutesbefore I heard men's voices.
And when I heard them, of courseI started screaming and they
found their way to me.
But you know, I'm completelyburied other than my right hand
is sticking out the side of therubble pile.
And when they get to me, theyget to my hand.
I think they're getting ready topull me out.
(04:31):
But it was at that time thateveryone started yelling,
there's another bomb.
There's another bomb.
We need everybody out now.
And so my rescuers had to leaveme, and it was during this time
that I experienced what a lot ofpeople describe as life flashing
before your eyes.
And I had a lot of regrets for.
(04:53):
Not having lived my life, likejust feeling like I had
squandered my life and I justbegged God for a second chance.
Anything, just a second chance.
I just to, if I could just makeit out and, this whole, that
whole experience was about 45minutes as well waiting, for
this bomb to go off.
It never did, and they came backand they continued working to
(05:15):
get me out.
It took them about six and ahalf hours to get me out alive
that day.
David Lowry (05:20):
Wow, what a story! I've heard about the Murah
bombing for all these years now,and we celebrated in Oklahoma
City with a marathon and amemorial museum to remember all
of the people who unfortunatelydied that day and all of our
brave heroes as well.
But it had a profound impact onyour life.
You made some changes in yourlife and, I guess we might say
(05:43):
you learn to live moreintentionally, and I'd like for
you to tell us how you definethis term intentional living.
Amy Downs (05:51):
Well, the life flashing before my eyes, the
realizing that I was gettingready to die and I had really
not even lived has stayed withme.
It just it, it made a lastingimprint.
And I remember when they put meon the gurney and they took me
outta the back of the federalbuilding that day, taking those
first breaths of fresh air andpromising God, I'll never live
my life the same.
(06:12):
Now I'd like to tell you, youknow, cue the rocky music, I
went running out of the hospitaldown the steps and I changed my
life.
It didn't exactly work that way.
But the thought.
The knowing in my heart that Iwanted to change was there, and
I didn't quite know how, but Iknew that I wanted to do things
(06:32):
different.
Well, the little credit unionthat I worked for lost 18 of the
33 employees and all, almost allmanagement, all supervisors were
gone.
So with a handful of traumatizedemployees, we were trying to
reopen and having to reinventourselves and.
It actually turned out to be areally good diversion, I think
(06:53):
for me, because I focusedactually on that at first
helping rebuild this creditunion.
That's what I put my energytoward.
Now through that, okay, Ilearned how to set goals.
I learned how to break reallybig things down into very small
steps, and that was huge becauseas I kept learning in business
(07:15):
how to accomplish things.
And there was this littleframework that emerged, which
was started.
My boss asked me one day, if youhad a magic wand, what would you
do?
And then she, and then backinginto that, basically given your
current situation, your currentlimitations, what are the
smallest steps that you can taketo work toward that?
And just repeating that sameprocess over and over again.
(07:35):
One day I thought, you know, Iwonder if this would work in my
personal life.
It felt like I was a rock starat work, but my personal life
was in a mess, is in, was in amess, and so I thought, I wanna
go back to college.
That really bothered me that Ihad flunked outta college, that
I had squandered thatopportunity.
And so I wrote on a little notecard.
(07:56):
I wrote, I wanna go back toschool.
And my very first step,'cause Iwould always make my first step
so small that they weren'toverwhelming and I would not
procrastinate'em.
So my first step was literallyjust to find the phone number to
LSUS so I could get mytranscript.
And then once I got mytranscript, then it was.
Research and find a college thatwould be willing to accept my,
(08:19):
okay.
Dawn, close your ears.
A 0.5, zero grade point average,like nothing in front of the
decimal.
So I had to find a college thatwould be willing to take it and
literally, just take the, I waslike, my goal was to take basket
weaving till I could get mygrade point average up high
enough to go to a little bitmore reputable college and so
forth.
(08:39):
Well, anyway, fast forward, Iended up graduating with my
degree and then kept going andgot my master's in business.
So that was the first thing, thefirst really big, big, big
transformation in my life wasgoing back to school, getting
that degree.
When I say big transformation, Imean that took time.
Like something that took time.
There were some things I changedin my life immediately like
prayer like knowing I needed Godin my life.
(09:01):
There were things that changedimmediately, but some of the
other things in my life took alot of time, like the going back
to school and that took severalyears.
David Lowry (09:08):
I wanna hear more about breaking things down into
little steps.
That sounds like something allof us could use no matter what
stage of life we're in.
Amy Downs (09:16):
Oh, absolutely.
And, and I love learning fromother people too.
So, there's books like TinyHabits and lots of people who
have written about this.
And I listen to all of them andthen figure out which pieces
seem to work for me.
And so for me, what I do is Ifirst ask myself the question,
if I had a magic wand.
What would I want?
(09:38):
And I really dig into what doesthat look like and the why.
What and why what am I reallywanting?
And then I say, okay, given mycurrent situation I'll take my
weight.
For example, I was 355 pounds,given my current situation, my
current limitations.
I love me some food.
Okay.
I love to eat.
And I've joined Weight Watchers,50 million times and I'm not
(10:00):
losing weight.
So given my current situation,my current limitations, what can
I do, what are the smalleststeps?
And that first step was toliterally just Google, just
research what weight lossoptions are out there, like
what's actually out there, Idon't know.
And so starting that small andthen just building the next
step.
Consistency really is the key.
(10:23):
Over time, taking small stepsreally does lead to big
transformation, and so everysingle goal I set starts with
something really ridiculouslysmall.
Don Drew (10:33):
Let me ask you about your physical transformation as
it continued.
I know you're a cyclist.
You and your friends and yourhusband have cycled all over
well all over.
And ultimately you ended upcompeting in an Ironman contest
and succeeded at it.
Can you tell us about thatadventure?
Amy Downs (10:50):
Absolutely.
So I ended up having a weightloss surgery, so that's my path.
Ended up taking me to weightloss surgery.
But the doctor basically told meit's not gonna stick or last
unless you change your life, youhave to do something.
So, my next goal was to find abicycle.
With a big enough seat and bigenough tires that would hold me
and to start riding a bike.
(11:10):
So the first bike ride was fiveminutes.
I mean that small, and then Ikept building on it.
My sister liked to ride a bike.
And so we started going longerdistances and I found out about
a ride across Oklahoma that washappening every year.
And we did that.
And then I was working thefinish line, you were talking
about the marathon at thebeginning of the show.
The marathon that honors thelives of the 168 people that
(11:31):
were killed.
I was passing out medals at thefinish line, and that is a
dangerous place to be, thefinish line of a marathon
because it tricks you, you'rewatching all these people.
With disabilities older thanyou, like other limitations and
they're crossing the finishline.
So it tricks you into thinkingyou can do it too.
So I tell everybody I'm gonnarun next year and honor my
(11:53):
friend Sonya that was killed.
And then I discover I can't runmore than 10 seconds without it
sounding like you need to call 91 1.
But anyway one mile at a time,right?
One, one step at a time.
And I do this marathon.
Then somebody tells me, youknow, if you learn how to swim,
you could do this thing called atrilon.
So I hire a swim coach'cause Idon't know how to swim.
I can only dog paddle and Ilearn how to swim.
(12:14):
And I start doing these littlemini triathlons, at a gym where
you just get on a spin bike andyou swim in their pool and and
then I kept doing longerdistance ones.
And then when I turned 50 Isaid, okay, I gotta do something
serious.
I'm 50.
And so I had heard about IronMan, it's a 2.4 mile swim.
Followed by 112 mile bike rideand ending with a 26.2 marathon.
(12:36):
It all has to be done in timecuts, and the whole thing has to
be finished within 17 hours tobe declared an Iron Man.
So I decided to do it.
I went to Tempe, Arizona.
We did not have an Iron Man atthat time in Oklahoma, so I went
to Arizona and I'm doing thisIron Man.
I get to the run portion of theIron Man.
I just, after three miles mybody starts shutting down.
(12:58):
I'm cramping, I'm walking likeit's not good.
And I look at my watch and I'mthinking, I.
My coach tells me she comes,she's volunteering at the event.
She comes and finds me and shesays, Amy, you're doing really
good.
And I'm like, no, I'm not.
I can't finish.
And she said, remember, it was aself seated swim start, which
means we didn't all line up.
(13:19):
1, 2, 3 on your mark.
You gets that go like.
You got in according to how longit took you to swim.
So I probably got in the waterat seven 15, which then meant I
had till 15 minutes aftermidnight and I had not accounted
for that.
So the minute she told me that,I was like, oh, and I'm trying
to do the math and I'm realizingI can finish.
And it's true.
If you think you can or youcan't, they're both true,
(13:41):
whichever one you think.
And so all a sudden I startpicking up my pace and I'm
thinking I can do this.
And I'm almost to the finishline.
I'm almost there and I can seethe lights of the stadium and
the golf cart.
A golf cart with some young guyscome up beside me and they said,
ma'am, do you still have yourtiming chip?
And what that means is they'regetting ready to take me off the
(14:01):
course.
And I said yes I do.
And my coach was still there andshe tells them, Hey, she's not
the last one.
There's people behind her andshe starts trying to educate
them, that we have more time.
And they said well, I'm sorry,she's the last person.
Now we've cleared the course.
So, man, I pick up pace'causeI'm trying really hard to finish
and I'm getting closer.
(14:22):
They come up again and theysaid, ma'am, what's your number?
And I said, 1798.
And they pick up a megaphone andthey yelled at Mike Riley, the
voice of Iron Man through themegaphone.
And they say our final finisher,Amy Downs is coming in.
And I heard Mike re tell thecrowd, let's let Amy hear you.
Let's bring her home, make somenoise.
She's gonna do it.
(14:43):
I hear this roar come up fromthe stadium and all of a sudden
I'm in the shoot and I see thejumbotron and there I am and I'm
just like oh my gosh.
And all these people, are highfiving me over the railing.
And I thought, well, I'm last,I'm gonna take a minute here and
high five people, who cares, soI'm dancing to the music, high
fiving, come across the finishline and Mike Ri says, Amy
(15:04):
Downs, you are an Iron Man.
And it was one of the moments inmy life that is the most
special.
Don Drew (15:10):
That's a physical transformation.
But you've also had aprofessional transformation.
My goodness, you started out asa teller at Federal Employees
Credit Union.
Later that would becomeAllegiance Credit Union, which
is the name is known by today.
And you made it pretty high upin the organization as I hear.
Amy Downs (15:26):
I did I worked in almost every department, a lot
of different positions, andended up becoming CEO from
teller to CEO.
David Lowry (15:34):
Amy, I wanna know about your book, Hope is a Verb.
There's gotta be a story aboutthat title.
Amy Downs (15:40):
There is, there absolutely is.
Well, first I gotta tell you Iworked on this book for years
and years, and I struggled with.
I don't want this book to be allabout me.
Like it's about the audience,the person reading it.
Like how can I help the, how canwhat I have been through help
somebody else?
And so I was on severaldifferent iterations and
discussing it with my nephew whoturns out I just knew he was an
(16:02):
attorney.
I.
And I didn't know he also had amaster's in creative writing.
So when I discover that man, Istart twisting his arm hard,
like, he's gonna help me.
He needs to help me.
So he agrees to help me, and heand I write this book of his
verb, but we don't know the nameof it yet.
We're working on it.
We're trying to figure out thename.
(16:23):
And he and I both read a bookcalled Hope Rising and Hope
Rising by Chan Hellman.
And there's another author, andI'm blanking on the name right
now, but in this book, hopeRising, they describe hope is
the belief that your future canbe better and brighter than your
past, and that you actually playa role in making that happen.
(16:44):
And oftentimes I think, I alwaysthought of hope as like, I hope
you have a good day.
Almost like a wish, like it'syou, hope you wish, and this
described it differently.
It's action.
It's actually the action.
You have agency over the actionsteps for a goal that you've set
for yourself.
And that's actually the thingthat sparks this hope inside of
you.
And that really resonated.
(17:04):
And so we reached out to theauthor of the book and said,
Hey, we're really thinking aboutgoing with a hope title because
you've inspired us.
And we credit their book at theend of our book.
But that's how the title cameabout with hope is a verb.
Don Drew (17:17):
You used the phrase in the book, the Power of Authentic
Hope, I believe, and you talkabout how it can transform
somebody from a victim to achampion.
But you write about others andyou write about, authentic hope.
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Amy Downs (17:30):
Yes.
Yes.
So I grew up in so I grew up inthe na it claimant era.
Okay.
I grew up in the, in a in a,religious setting where
sometimes I think, maybe itwasn't intentional, but you
know, God became the genie inthe bottle.
If you wanted something, you'rejust gonna pray hard enough or
believe hard enough it's gonnahappen.
And there I never saw action on.
(17:52):
On the person's part.
Often it was just, I'm gonnaname it, claim it.
I'm gonna believe God for it,but I don't do anything.
So to me this idea that like, Iam actually involved in this
too, and that I own a piece.
I, I mean, yes I believe thatGod, grants favor and there's
blessings that happen to usabsolutely.
But this idea that me, that I amactually going to work towards
(18:15):
something myself and bring thathope about just really resonated
with me.
David Lowry (18:21):
Amy, our program focuses on the second half of
life and it's no surprise tomany people that a lot of people
give up as they get older.
Just like, what's the point?
There's a lot of thingshappening to our bodies we're
having to adjust to.
There's all kinds of things thatare normal and natural, but are
a bit disquieting disturbing.
(18:41):
I'd like to hear you talk to usin the second half of life about
some things you've learned andhow you intend to apply that in
the second half of life.
Amy Downs (18:50):
Absolutely.
So I'm 58 years old and I'vebeen experiencing all the
wonderful things that everybodywarned me.
What happened after you turned50?
And so now here's what thislooks like for me.
So when I'm setting goals andI'm thinking to myself, okay,
I'll give you an example.
So, I retired from the creditunion this year and I have a
full-time speaking career and Imoved to a different town.
(19:13):
So I'm try, I'm in thistransition part of life, right?
And I'm trying to figure outwhat does exercise look like for
me.
And I wanted to include like I,the things that are important to
me are doing good in mycommunity.
Connection with other people andmovement being out in nature,
blah, blah.
So I find something where I'mlike, okay, here's what we're
(19:35):
gonna do.
We're gonna go outside and we'regonna pick up trash.
We're gonna go outside and pickup trash because I'm out in
nature.
I'm moving my body.
I get my husband to go with me.
So it's almost like a date.
We're chatting, we're picking uptrash, and that's how it
started.
It started with let's just gopick up some trash, like 20
minutes.
We're gonna walk down thestreet, pick up trash, and then
(19:56):
it extended.
And then it was, you know what,we need a golf cart with a
pickup bed so we can load all ofour trash bags and our gear.
And now it's a whole thing.
Now we take our weed eater, oureverything, and we're cleaning
up the town.
So, it's, it started with alittle bitty small step, given
my current situation.
Limitations, I've had doubleknee replacement.
I'm not riding my bike as muchas I used to.
(20:18):
I'm not, my body is, I'm notable to do physically some of
the things I used to do, but Istill wanna be active.
So, okay, let's look at itdifferently.
Now it's very rewarding.
It's very different.
Picking up trash is, maybe notdoing an Iron Man, but I'm
having the time of my life.
So I think you just have tore-look at what does this look
(20:39):
like for me now, given mycurrent situation, limitations,
what can I do now?
I'm loving hiking, things that Imaybe didn't have the time for
because hikes took a long time.
I've got the time for some ofthat, and it's, it's, I'm just
having the time of my life.
It's fun.
Don Drew (20:56):
That's been evident that you've had an active hope
not just a wish, but an act ofhope that you can be stronger
physically, that you can advanceyour career, that you can
actually learn, maybe even learna little math.
Amy, I wanna go back to the CEOpart just for a minute here.
You became the chief ExecutiveOfficer of the credit union
where he had worked for, howmany years was it?
Amy Downs (21:17):
I worked for the credit union 37 years, and the
last seven and a half were asCEO.
Don Drew (21:23):
Wow.
that's an incredible journey.
It's incredible for anybody.
Every once in a while you readabout the private eventually
becomes a general in the army orthe Air Force, and that's a lot
of work to have accomplished.
You really took your mission tolive intentionally, seriously.
Amy Downs (21:40):
Yes.
Don Drew (21:40):
Amy Downs, whose life could have been solely defined
by being a survivor of the Murahbombing has found so much more
from that.
Her life has grown to includebeing a motivational speaker, an
author, chief Executive Officer,and even an Ironman.
Amy, it's been inspirationalhaving you with us today on
Peaceful Life Radio.
(22:01):
We wanna thank you for beingwith us.
Hope is the belief that your future can be better
(00:03):
and brighter than your past, andthat you actually play a role in
making that happen.
David Lowry (00:08):
That was Amy Downs, our guest today on Peaceful Life
Radio.
She was one of the lastsurvivors to be pulled from the
rubble following the OklahomaCity bombing.
You're listening to PeacefulLife Radio.
I'm David Lowry, and my buddyDon Drew's with us today, Don.
Don Drew (00:23):
Hello, David.
David Lowry (00:24):
Hey, why don't you introduce our guest and get us
started?
Don Drew (00:28):
Absolutely.
Amy and I have known each other,I think for about 25 years now.
She's an old friend.
As way of introducing her, Ijust wanna mention that in 1995,
she, as you said, David was oneof the last survivors pulled
from the rubble of the OklahomaCity bombing, and 168 people
were killed there including 18of her, 33 coworkers at the
Federal employees Credit Union.
(00:50):
Embracing her second chance atlife, amy launched a campaign of
self-improvement andempowerment.
She went from a 355 pound couchpotato to completing a full
Ironman triathlon.
From flunking out of math classto earning her master's degree
in business administration.
From a teller to CEO of the samecredit union nearly destroyed in
the bombing.
(01:10):
Amy is now a full-time speakerand author of the book, Hope is
a Verb, which is available onAmazon.
Most recently, Amy was featuredin two documentaries produced by
National Geographic and Netflix.
Amy, welcome to Peaceful LifeRadio.
Amy Downs (01:24):
I'm glad to be here.
What an honor.
Don Drew (01:26):
Amy, I know you're asked a lot about what happened
to you and so many of yourfriends on April 19th, 1995.
Everything changed for you onthat day, didn't it?
Amy Downs (01:34):
Yes, it did.
Don Drew (01:35):
Can you tell us a little bit about that
experience?
Amy Downs (01:37):
Sure, absolutely.
I was 28 years old and workingat a little financial
institution, a credit union inthe Murra Federal Building in
downtown Oklahoma City.
And I might add, by the way,that.
I know you're an educator.
I know that you value education,Dawn.
I did not at that time in mylife, and I had flunked outta
(01:59):
math class.
The remedial math class incollege, not even the one you
get credit hours for.
So I was struggling a little bitin trying to figure out what I
wanted to be when I grew up andcollege didn't seem to be an
option.
So I ended up with my amazingmath skills, applying for a job
at this little financialinstitution to work as a teller.
(02:19):
I had been there for about sevenyears, and on the morning of
April 19th, I was running aroundthat morning, super excited
because I was getting ready tobuy my first house and I was
talking to everybody about thehouse chitchatting.
I remember looking at my watchand thinking, oh my gosh, it's
almost nine o'clock and I hadnot done any work.
I better get to work or I'mgonna get in trouble, and I run
(02:41):
down the hall to, to sit down atmy desk and.
One of my coworkers, who wasseven months pregnant, was
sitting right beside me waitingto ask me a question, and when I
turned to ask her what sheneeded, I'm not sure if the
words ever made it outta mymouth or not.
That's when the bomb went off.
And I remember just hearing thisincredible roaring noise in my
(03:04):
head that was so loud that myfirst thought was I had been
shot in the head.
That was the only thing I.
Could possibly cause that.
When you work for a financialinstitution, you're always a
little bit worried aboutrobbery, so that's why I think I
immediately thought, maybe arobbery had gone wrong and I
could hear people screaming.
(03:25):
And then I also was feeling thisfalling sensation like I was
falling.
I found out later that I wasfalling.
I fell three floors.
I was still in my desk chair,upside down, buried under about
10 feet of rubble.
So shortly after, I hear thisroaring and all this screaming
and this falling feeling.
All of a sudden everything goescompletely quiet and I can't
(03:48):
move and I cannot see.
It's very hard to breathe andextremely hot, and I have no
idea what has happened.
No clue.
And I thought for a second Ithought, am I dead?
Did something happen and I'mnot, and I'm dead.
Then I could hear a siren goingoff in the distance.
And I decided, okay I'm, I muststill be alive.
(04:09):
I can hear this siren.
But it was about 45 minutesbefore I heard men's voices.
And when I heard them, of courseI started screaming and they
found their way to me.
But you know, I'm completelyburied other than my right hand
is sticking out the side of therubble pile.
And when they get to me, theyget to my hand.
I think they're getting ready topull me out.
(04:31):
But it was at that time thateveryone started yelling,
there's another bomb.
There's another bomb.
We need everybody out now.
And so my rescuers had to leaveme, and it was during this time
that I experienced what a lot ofpeople describe as life flashing
before your eyes.
And I had a lot of regrets for.
(04:53):
Not having lived my life, likejust feeling like I had
squandered my life and I justbegged God for a second chance.
Anything, just a second chance.
I just to, if I could just makeit out and, this whole, that
whole experience was about 45minutes as well waiting, for
this bomb to go off.
It never did, and they came backand they continued working to
(05:15):
get me out.
It took them about six and ahalf hours to get me out alive
that day.
David Lowry (05:20):
Wow, what a story! I've heard about the Murah
bombing for all these years now,and we celebrated in Oklahoma
City with a marathon and amemorial museum to remember all
of the people who unfortunatelydied that day and all of our
brave heroes as well.
But it had a profound impact onyour life.
You made some changes in yourlife and, I guess we might say
(05:43):
you learn to live moreintentionally, and I'd like for
you to tell us how you definethis term intentional living.
Amy Downs (05:51):
Well, the life flashing before my eyes, the
realizing that I was gettingready to die and I had really
not even lived has stayed withme.
It just it, it made a lastingimprint.
And I remember when they put meon the gurney and they took me
outta the back of the federalbuilding that day, taking those
first breaths of fresh air andpromising God, I'll never live
my life the same.
(06:12):
Now I'd like to tell you, youknow, cue the rocky music, I
went running out of the hospitaldown the steps and I changed my
life.
It didn't exactly work that way.
But the thought.
The knowing in my heart that Iwanted to change was there, and
I didn't quite know how, but Iknew that I wanted to do things
(06:32):
different.
Well, the little credit unionthat I worked for lost 18 of the
33 employees and all, almost allmanagement, all supervisors were
gone.
So with a handful of traumatizedemployees, we were trying to
reopen and having to reinventourselves and.
It actually turned out to be areally good diversion, I think
(06:53):
for me, because I focusedactually on that at first
helping rebuild this creditunion.
That's what I put my energytoward.
Now through that, okay, Ilearned how to set goals.
I learned how to break reallybig things down into very small
steps, and that was huge becauseas I kept learning in business
(07:15):
how to accomplish things.
And there was this littleframework that emerged, which
was started.
My boss asked me one day, if youhad a magic wand, what would you
do?
And then she, and then backinginto that, basically given your
current situation, your currentlimitations, what are the
smallest steps that you can taketo work toward that?
And just repeating that sameprocess over and over again.
(07:35):
One day I thought, you know, Iwonder if this would work in my
personal life.
It felt like I was a rock starat work, but my personal life
was in a mess, is in, was in amess, and so I thought, I wanna
go back to college.
That really bothered me that Ihad flunked outta college, that
I had squandered thatopportunity.
And so I wrote on a little notecard.
(07:56):
I wrote, I wanna go back toschool.
And my very first step,'cause Iwould always make my first step
so small that they weren'toverwhelming and I would not
procrastinate'em.
So my first step was literallyjust to find the phone number to
LSUS so I could get mytranscript.
And then once I got mytranscript, then it was.
Research and find a college thatwould be willing to accept my,
(08:19):
okay.
Dawn, close your ears.
A 0.5, zero grade point average,like nothing in front of the
decimal.
So I had to find a college thatwould be willing to take it and
literally, just take the, I waslike, my goal was to take basket
weaving till I could get mygrade point average up high
enough to go to a little bitmore reputable college and so
forth.
(08:39):
Well, anyway, fast forward, Iended up graduating with my
degree and then kept going andgot my master's in business.
So that was the first thing, thefirst really big, big, big
transformation in my life wasgoing back to school, getting
that degree.
When I say big transformation, Imean that took time.
Like something that took time.
There were some things I changedin my life immediately like
prayer like knowing I needed Godin my life.
(09:01):
There were things that changedimmediately, but some of the
other things in my life took alot of time, like the going back
to school and that took severalyears.
David Lowry (09:08):
I wanna hear more about breaking things down into
little steps.
That sounds like something allof us could use no matter what
stage of life we're in.
Amy Downs (09:16):
Oh, absolutely.
And, and I love learning fromother people too.
So, there's books like TinyHabits and lots of people who
have written about this.
And I listen to all of them andthen figure out which pieces
seem to work for me.
And so for me, what I do is Ifirst ask myself the question,
if I had a magic wand.
What would I want?
(09:38):
And I really dig into what doesthat look like and the why.
What and why what am I reallywanting?
And then I say, okay, given mycurrent situation I'll take my
weight.
For example, I was 355 pounds,given my current situation, my
current limitations.
I love me some food.
Okay.
I love to eat.
And I've joined Weight Watchers,50 million times and I'm not
(10:00):
losing weight.
So given my current situation,my current limitations, what can
I do, what are the smalleststeps?
And that first step was toliterally just Google, just
research what weight lossoptions are out there, like
what's actually out there, Idon't know.
And so starting that small andthen just building the next
step.
Consistency really is the key.
(10:23):
Over time, taking small stepsreally does lead to big
transformation, and so everysingle goal I set starts with
something really ridiculouslysmall.
Don Drew (10:33):
Let me ask you about your physical transformation as
it continued.
I know you're a cyclist.
You and your friends and yourhusband have cycled all over
well all over.
And ultimately you ended upcompeting in an Ironman contest
and succeeded at it.
Can you tell us about thatadventure?
Amy Downs (10:50):
Absolutely.
So I ended up having a weightloss surgery, so that's my path.
Ended up taking me to weightloss surgery.
But the doctor basically told meit's not gonna stick or last
unless you change your life, youhave to do something.
So, my next goal was to find abicycle.
With a big enough seat and bigenough tires that would hold me
and to start riding a bike.
(11:10):
So the first bike ride was fiveminutes.
I mean that small, and then Ikept building on it.
My sister liked to ride a bike.
And so we started going longerdistances and I found out about
a ride across Oklahoma that washappening every year.
And we did that.
And then I was working thefinish line, you were talking
about the marathon at thebeginning of the show.
The marathon that honors thelives of the 168 people that
(11:31):
were killed.
I was passing out medals at thefinish line, and that is a
dangerous place to be, thefinish line of a marathon
because it tricks you, you'rewatching all these people.
With disabilities older thanyou, like other limitations and
they're crossing the finishline.
So it tricks you into thinkingyou can do it too.
So I tell everybody I'm gonnarun next year and honor my
(11:53):
friend Sonya that was killed.
And then I discover I can't runmore than 10 seconds without it
sounding like you need to call 91 1.
But anyway one mile at a time,right?
One, one step at a time.
And I do this marathon.
Then somebody tells me, youknow, if you learn how to swim,
you could do this thing called atrilon.
So I hire a swim coach'cause Idon't know how to swim.
I can only dog paddle and Ilearn how to swim.
(12:14):
And I start doing these littlemini triathlons, at a gym where
you just get on a spin bike andyou swim in their pool and and
then I kept doing longerdistance ones.
And then when I turned 50 Isaid, okay, I gotta do something
serious.
I'm 50.
And so I had heard about IronMan, it's a 2.4 mile swim.
Followed by 112 mile bike rideand ending with a 26.2 marathon.
(12:36):
It all has to be done in timecuts, and the whole thing has to
be finished within 17 hours tobe declared an Iron Man.
So I decided to do it.
I went to Tempe, Arizona.
We did not have an Iron Man atthat time in Oklahoma, so I went
to Arizona and I'm doing thisIron Man.
I get to the run portion of theIron Man.
I just, after three miles mybody starts shutting down.
(12:58):
I'm cramping, I'm walking likeit's not good.
And I look at my watch and I'mthinking, I.
My coach tells me she comes,she's volunteering at the event.
She comes and finds me and shesays, Amy, you're doing really
good.
And I'm like, no, I'm not.
I can't finish.
And she said, remember, it was aself seated swim start, which
means we didn't all line up.
(13:19):
1, 2, 3 on your mark.
You gets that go like.
You got in according to how longit took you to swim.
So I probably got in the waterat seven 15, which then meant I
had till 15 minutes aftermidnight and I had not accounted
for that.
So the minute she told me that,I was like, oh, and I'm trying
to do the math and I'm realizingI can finish.
And it's true.
If you think you can or youcan't, they're both true,
(13:41):
whichever one you think.
And so all a sudden I startpicking up my pace and I'm
thinking I can do this.
And I'm almost to the finishline.
I'm almost there and I can seethe lights of the stadium and
the golf cart.
A golf cart with some young guyscome up beside me and they said,
ma'am, do you still have yourtiming chip?
And what that means is they'regetting ready to take me off the
(14:01):
course.
And I said yes I do.
And my coach was still there andshe tells them, Hey, she's not
the last one.
There's people behind her andshe starts trying to educate
them, that we have more time.
And they said well, I'm sorry,she's the last person.
Now we've cleared the course.
So, man, I pick up pace'causeI'm trying really hard to finish
and I'm getting closer.
(14:22):
They come up again and theysaid, ma'am, what's your number?
And I said, 1798.
And they pick up a megaphone andthey yelled at Mike Riley, the
voice of Iron Man through themegaphone.
And they say our final finisher,Amy Downs is coming in.
And I heard Mike re tell thecrowd, let's let Amy hear you.
Let's bring her home, make somenoise.
She's gonna do it.
(14:43):
I hear this roar come up fromthe stadium and all of a sudden
I'm in the shoot and I see thejumbotron and there I am and I'm
just like oh my gosh.
And all these people, are highfiving me over the railing.
And I thought, well, I'm last,I'm gonna take a minute here and
high five people, who cares, soI'm dancing to the music, high
fiving, come across the finishline and Mike Ri says, Amy
(15:04):
Downs, you are an Iron Man.
And it was one of the moments inmy life that is the most
special.
Don Drew (15:10):
That's a physical transformation.
But you've also had aprofessional transformation.
My goodness, you started out asa teller at Federal Employees
Credit Union.
Later that would becomeAllegiance Credit Union, which
is the name is known by today.
And you made it pretty high upin the organization as I hear.
Amy Downs (15:26):
I did I worked in almost every department, a lot
of different positions, andended up becoming CEO from
teller to CEO.
David Lowry (15:34):
Amy, I wanna know about your book, Hope is a Verb.
There's gotta be a story aboutthat title.
Amy Downs (15:40):
There is, there absolutely is.
Well, first I gotta tell you Iworked on this book for years
and years, and I struggled with.
I don't want this book to be allabout me.
Like it's about the audience,the person reading it.
Like how can I help the, how canwhat I have been through help
somebody else?
And so I was on severaldifferent iterations and
discussing it with my nephew whoturns out I just knew he was an
(16:02):
attorney.
I.
And I didn't know he also had amaster's in creative writing.
So when I discover that man, Istart twisting his arm hard,
like, he's gonna help me.
He needs to help me.
So he agrees to help me, and heand I write this book of his
verb, but we don't know the nameof it yet.
We're working on it.
We're trying to figure out thename.
(16:23):
And he and I both read a bookcalled Hope Rising and Hope
Rising by Chan Hellman.
And there's another author, andI'm blanking on the name right
now, but in this book, hopeRising, they describe hope is
the belief that your future canbe better and brighter than your
past, and that you actually playa role in making that happen.
(16:44):
And oftentimes I think, I alwaysthought of hope as like, I hope
you have a good day.
Almost like a wish, like it'syou, hope you wish, and this
described it differently.
It's action.
It's actually the action.
You have agency over the actionsteps for a goal that you've set
for yourself.
And that's actually the thingthat sparks this hope inside of
you.
And that really resonated.
(17:04):
And so we reached out to theauthor of the book and said,
Hey, we're really thinking aboutgoing with a hope title because
you've inspired us.
And we credit their book at theend of our book.
But that's how the title cameabout with hope is a verb.
Don Drew (17:17):
You used the phrase in the book, the Power of Authentic
Hope, I believe, and you talkabout how it can transform
somebody from a victim to achampion.
But you write about others andyou write about, authentic hope.
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Amy Downs (17:30):
Yes.
Yes.
So I grew up in so I grew up inthe na it claimant era.
Okay.
I grew up in the, in a in a,religious setting where
sometimes I think, maybe itwasn't intentional, but you
know, God became the genie inthe bottle.
If you wanted something, you'rejust gonna pray hard enough or
believe hard enough it's gonnahappen.
And there I never saw action on.
(17:52):
On the person's part.
Often it was just, I'm gonnaname it, claim it.
I'm gonna believe God for it,but I don't do anything.
So to me this idea that like, Iam actually involved in this
too, and that I own a piece.
I, I mean, yes I believe thatGod, grants favor and there's
blessings that happen to usabsolutely.
But this idea that me, that I amactually going to work towards
(18:15):
something myself and bring thathope about just really resonated
with me.
David Lowry (18:21):
Amy, our program focuses on the second half of
life and it's no surprise tomany people that a lot of people
give up as they get older.
Just like, what's the point?
There's a lot of thingshappening to our bodies we're
having to adjust to.
There's all kinds of things thatare normal and natural, but are
a bit disquieting disturbing.
(18:41):
I'd like to hear you talk to usin the second half of life about
some things you've learned andhow you intend to apply that in
the second half of life.
Amy Downs (18:50):
Absolutely.
So I'm 58 years old and I'vebeen experiencing all the
wonderful things that everybodywarned me.
What happened after you turned50?
And so now here's what thislooks like for me.
So when I'm setting goals andI'm thinking to myself, okay,
I'll give you an example.
So, I retired from the creditunion this year and I have a
full-time speaking career and Imoved to a different town.
(19:13):
So I'm try, I'm in thistransition part of life, right?
And I'm trying to figure outwhat does exercise look like for
me.
And I wanted to include like I,the things that are important to
me are doing good in mycommunity.
Connection with other people andmovement being out in nature,
blah, blah.
So I find something where I'mlike, okay, here's what we're
(19:35):
gonna do.
We're gonna go outside and we'regonna pick up trash.
We're gonna go outside and pickup trash because I'm out in
nature.
I'm moving my body.
I get my husband to go with me.
So it's almost like a date.
We're chatting, we're picking uptrash, and that's how it
started.
It started with let's just gopick up some trash, like 20
minutes.
We're gonna walk down thestreet, pick up trash, and then
(19:56):
it extended.
And then it was, you know what,we need a golf cart with a
pickup bed so we can load all ofour trash bags and our gear.
And now it's a whole thing.
Now we take our weed eater, oureverything, and we're cleaning
up the town.
So, it's, it started with alittle bitty small step, given
my current situation.
Limitations, I've had doubleknee replacement.
I'm not riding my bike as muchas I used to.
(20:18):
I'm not, my body is, I'm notable to do physically some of
the things I used to do, but Istill wanna be active.
So, okay, let's look at itdifferently.
Now it's very rewarding.
It's very different.
Picking up trash is, maybe notdoing an Iron Man, but I'm
having the time of my life.
So I think you just have tore-look at what does this look
(20:39):
like for me now, given mycurrent situation, limitations,
what can I do now?
I'm loving hiking, things that Imaybe didn't have the time for
because hikes took a long time.
I've got the time for some ofthat, and it's, it's, I'm just
having the time of my life.
It's fun.
Don Drew (20:56):
That's been evident that you've had an active hope
not just a wish, but an act ofhope that you can be stronger
physically, that you can advanceyour career, that you can
actually learn, maybe even learna little math.
Amy, I wanna go back to the CEOpart just for a minute here.
You became the chief ExecutiveOfficer of the credit union
where he had worked for, howmany years was it?
Amy Downs (21:17):
I worked for the credit union 37 years, and the
last seven and a half were asCEO.
Don Drew (21:23):
Wow.
that's an incredible journey.
It's incredible for anybody.
Every once in a while you readabout the private eventually
becomes a general in the army orthe Air Force, and that's a lot
of work to have accomplished.
You really took your mission tolive intentionally, seriously.
Amy Downs (21:40):
Yes.
Don Drew (21:40):
Amy Downs, whose life could have been solely defined
by being a survivor of the Murahbombing has found so much more
from that.
Her life has grown to includebeing a motivational speaker, an
author, chief Executive Officer,and even an Ironman.
Amy, it's been inspirationalhaving you with us today on
Peaceful Life Radio.
(22:01):
We wanna thank you for beingwith us.
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