September 12, 2022 • 47 mins
There’s more to life than your job. It’s something people say, but don’t really internalize until tragedy or crisis strikes. What if we could reach that realization, sans crisis? Jen’s on a mission to get women off the hamster wheel and into a life that lights their soul.
Jen Silbert is sharing her wisdom as a life coach, confidence coach and all around adventure seeking bad ass. It was a lot of fun to hear the back story of my internet friend and her army counter intelligence that I had no clue about.
In this episode, we chat about:
1. Learning to celebrate our achievements and ourselves.
2. Recognizing our conditioning
3. Creating a life for yourself outside your job.
Go here for full show notes and links!
Resources: Want to know 7 things you can do today to make leaving corporate easier? Grab it here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
So I submitted a proposal. And Sharon, I was
(00:04):
thinking about what am I goingto charge for my hourly rate?
Like I had no idea what I wasworth monetarily. Yeah, I knew
what my salary was, but I had noidea how are you going to price
yourself out when you factor innow I'm gonna have my own health
care and have to get I'm gonnahave not a lot of overhead as a
consultant, but I'm definitelygoing to want to earn more to
make this worth my while. Whatother expenses? I had no
(00:27):
experience in that area. So Ijust got out and started
Googling and talking withpeople. And at the time, I
offered myself up with a certainrate said, Here's my proposal,
and then they countered, hesaid, We think you're worth
more. We're gonna give you 20more dollars an hour. How does
that sound? More
Jamie Stephens (00:45):
than countered with more?
Unknown (00:46):
Yes. Yes,
Jamie Stephens (00:49):
I have never had that happen. Yeah, good job. I
know. Thanks for tuning in toanother episode of Breaking up
with corporate each week I chatwith everyday women that ditch
their nine to five to bet onthemselves. We break down their
journey into entrepreneurship,unpack the lessons learned and
create the vision of how thislife gets to be if you're
(01:11):
willing to get uncomfortable andstep into your potential. I'm
your host, Jamie Renee, to timecorporate escapee and coach to
burnout women looking to plantheir escape. Let's go.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Breaking up
with corporate today I have myfriend Jen silver on and Jen
(01:35):
lives in Maryland, and she is aconfidence and success coach.
Welcome to the show, Jen.
Unknown (01:41):
Hey, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me,
Jamie, you, you've got a greatshow. A great thing going on
your podcast.
Jamie Stephens (01:49):
Thank you so much. It's been so fun. And it's
really just kind of blown mymind about all the amazing women
I've been able to meet this yearand speak with and learn from
and I am just totally geekingout on everything that I learned
from everybody. Because it'sjust the the downside of that is
it does give me a little bit ofa like squirrel squirrel, you
(02:11):
know, to where I'm like, Oh,that's a good idea. Because I
just hear so much from women andtheir brilliance. And I just
love to share it. And I just,it's very inspiring for me. So
and I am so glad that you arehere to join us as well.
Unknown (02:25):
Thank you. I've been listening to a number of your
podcasts. And I've been veryimpressed with many of them when
first time thinking Where do youfind all these women? You know,
they could we've all got theirown individual stories and
experiences and wisdom to share.
And I mean, you are collecting amother lode. Really some amazing
women. So yay, on you.
Jamie Stephens (02:48):
Yay, yay, yay.
I'll accept that.
Unknown (02:51):
Celebrate that win.
Yeah. All right,
Jamie Stephens (02:53):
Jen, why don't you tell us your corporate story
and kind of how you came to be acompetence and success coach.
And we'll kind of start withcorporate and then jump into the
journey of leaving that and gofrom there. So you can just kick
us off?
Unknown (03:08):
Yeah, well, it's a squirrely path. But that's my
trademark. I rarely ever take astraight line, you know, toward
where I'm going, at least thatwas my history. Now I feel like
I know who I am and what I wantto do. So I think it will maybe
evolve, you know, a little butnot as dramatically as it has.
So yeah, I, I love telling thestory. And it was great to
(03:31):
revisit it. So I appreciate theopportunity to do that. Because
by looking back at where you'vebeen, you get to really want to
see how far you've come. Andthen celebrate that. And I think
that that area of celebration iswhere I find we don't sit very
often we're always looking atokay, what else can I do? And
(03:51):
we're in that pattern of gettingbetter learning more. You know,
analyzing our decisions, do wemake the right one and that so
just sitting here celebratingthe progress that I made, and
saying, Hey, I survived. Right?
It's a bit it's a big deal. Isurvived. And I got to where I'm
(04:12):
at. So yeah, especially since asI revisited my story, I realized
that some of the shifts I madereally weren't all the they
might have seemed foolish at thetime because they really have a
plan. Yeah, really have a plan.
So I took some notes to remindmyself because it was a
(04:32):
squirrely path. But I was reallyin the the military industrial
complex. You know, I got intothe military out of school. And
then I spent about eight yearsin the military and I landed in
Washington DC. And so this isthe hub for so many military
contractors. So if you have asecurity clearance, you are in
(04:55):
the military, you're pretty muchguaranteed a great job in the
Industrial Complex. And and Idid and I don't know how I got
there. But it was, again, justhappenstance that I even got
this job in military but I camein as a counterintelligence
agent, like straight fresh offthe street. So by the time I
Jamie Stephens (05:16):
know hearing this story, this is crazy. idea
you're in the military, likewhy?
Unknown (05:23):
Yeah. Well listen, if you're on Wisconsin, who is from
a small town, anyone from theMidwest, and you don't have
enough money to get to college?
I mean, I was working three jobstrying to get myself through
community college seriously. Andmy parents had no money to give
me I was burnt out. And I waslooking through the classified
(05:46):
ads, and I saw this job for acommunication specialist and in
the army, and I'm like, I was sonaive. I was like, Oh, I did
really well in communicationsclass in high school. Isn't the
job for me. Little did I knowthat it was gonna be like laying
line, you know, out in the fieldfor communications unit. You
(06:06):
know what I mean? Yeah. Wasn'tit wasn't me speaking Tandy,
buddy? Yeah, your cable nowmight vary in cable, right? So
thank God, I didn't get thatjob. But I got through all of
the tests, physical tests andthe written tests. Then they
match up what jobs areavailable. And so there was this
(06:28):
counterintelligence agent jobsthat hate, you know, this MOS
that has just become available.
And all the recruiters are like,ooh, this sounds like James Bond
style. Looks that and I'm like,all I wanted to know was when I
get to Germany, because now Iwill say that for myself, I had
a vision, which was I wanted togo to Germany, because my mom's
(06:50):
German, I'd been there beforewanted to trial. They said, Oh,
yeah, we can do we'll do all wecan promise you anything. And
then they said, Well, yourschooling would be at Fort
Huachuca in Arizona, like, Inever been to Arizona. Sounds
good. So there, I was not havingany idea what I'd be doing. But
(07:14):
I did do eight years in themilitary, they got me to Germany
came back to Washington, DC. Andthen at the time, to realist
would have meant I had to goback to Italy, they were going
to send me there. And I said,Nah, I got a boyfriend now. So
that guided my decision to stay,which I don't think anyone
(07:37):
listening, although I don'tknow, sometimes we make our
decisions based on ourattachment to some romantic
liaison, right? You're like, No,I'm in love with this person.
And if I went for what I wanted,it would mean I'd have to leave
them behind. And I don't know,I'm gonna stay. Well, that
(07:59):
relationship did not work out.
It was a disaster, actually. ButI almost almost went bankrupt
and bad. But I did end uplanding my first contractor job
with an outfit outside ofWashington, DC, and I got to
wear a suit. And I felt like Iwas, you know, I was I was in
corporate now. And then that wasmy journey, jumping from one ABC
(08:21):
company to another, justflitting, I mean, I, I lucked
out. And I will say I probablyhad the privilege of being a
female, at which it was apredominantly male space. And I
think they dug the idea ofhaving a female in the space
plus, it was I always openspace, I felt comfortable. And
(08:46):
so I took on the whole masculinepersona. Yeah. And you probably
hear a lot of stories from womenwho ended up subscribing to
that, because that's how we'reconditioned.
Jamie Stephens (08:58):
Yeah, that's the norm. Like, that's what it means
to be in corporate MBM. But, youknow, I automatically go to my
lower voice, you know, even it'slike I leave, that's just the
expectation until we change it.
You know, I mean, that's, that'sthe difference is what we see as
norms and the things that wesubscribe to are just because
whenever all of these thingswere built, like we weren't part
(09:21):
of that discussion as women likewe weren't even a consideration.
And so now that we are I mean,it's like that. That's the
challenge is not justsubscribing to it as that's the
best way. That's just the onlyway that we've seen because we
weren't part of theconversation. So yeah, I get
that.
Unknown (09:43):
Yeah, I did train myself to lower my voice,
because I either inherently orafter being led to believe that
I could be more authoritativewith my lower voice. I did take
on that lower boys. But as Ilook back and celebrate this
(10:06):
space where I did step into myown authentic self, I defied the
norm in that environment, whichwas to show up with my power
suit in one of three colors, youknow what those three colors
should be?
Jamie Stephens (10:22):
Red, White and Blue.
Unknown (10:27):
It shouldn't be, that would be more, you know, that
was seem the case when you'reworking for the military
industrial complex, but it wasthat light gray and navy, black,
gray navy. Okay, so those werethe power suits of the
institution. And I did work witha few women, the successful
(10:48):
women who got into the pocketsof the leaders, were wearing
those colors on a job, but notme. I was either too naive, or
just because I was in art, I hadan artistic self. And that's an
important part of the story.
Because I was reconditioned tobecome a person I was not
because it's it's like you'reswimming with the fish. And you
(11:12):
eventually got to like stay inline in order to stay with the
school while you're moving. Andso I, I was conditioned to
eventually buy into that wholepresence. All right, he's that
whole person. But it was after Ikept getting into trouble for
trying to be my own self. So Iwore bright colored suits, and I
(11:35):
wear big, clunky jewelry. Andthat was my way of expressing my
creative side. But I was verynaive when I jumped into this
whole business. Because when youget into the military, we get
into that whole world, you're inWashington, DC, there's not
really a lot of space forcreativity. But I, I eventually
(11:55):
got in line after beingcounseled a number of times to
kind of tone it down, like pullback. Don't be that South. If I
kept going forward, I found thatI was getting rewarded. And I
was moving from one company tothe next as a contractor. So the
way that environment works is ifhe lifts, let's say you get a
(12:20):
job with a large contractor youusually out on subcontract jobs.
And oftentimes that can meanyou're going to work physically
at the location of yoursubcontractor. There were just
other ABC companies. But I'veworked with the likes of like
Boeing and Lockheed and GE andthey probably all merged and
(12:41):
become different companies now.
But eventually, I landed a jobwith a large company who
contracted me out to twodifferent places. And I enjoyed
that. And I developed a goodrelationship with the
subcontractors because I workedhard. I mean, I, I worked hard,
(13:05):
and I celebrate that. And Ifound little places where I
could be creative, but now itwas more along the lines of
information and how I canmanipulate information to create
plans. And that's why today Istill see myself as like the
queen of roadmaps and systemsand for me was because they came
(13:27):
from this and it was my space tobe creative. Yeah, I was doing
fine until I got put into aposition of my first managerial
job. I ended up in a positionwhere I had to oversee a small
group of people, were theywomen? No, they were men. Okay.
(13:51):
So it was interesting. Therewere a few men I work with who
didn't have any problem workingfor me. But first off, I was new
and feeling my way around. Andby that I was I had a great
relationship with a contractor.
So I felt I was on solidfooting. I knew what they
wanted. And then I wouldtranslate that to my little
team. But there were a few menwho had a hard time working for
(14:14):
me. And so apparently, they wentback to complain to my parent
company. But my parent companydidn't really see me day to day
in the workspace. Yeah, theyknew that they knew the customer
was happy, but they didn't seeme become performance review
time. They shit on me. I'msorry. There's no other way of
(14:37):
saying it, but they shut on me.
And largely because these menhad gone back to complain about
my style. So with
Jamie Stephens (14:50):
that just rubs me
Unknown (14:54):
free right now. I mean, seriously? Yeah. i
Jamie Stephens (14:59):
You just I mean, like, I automatically hear all
of the labels, and all of thelabels that I've heard over my
career, all of the labels thatyou hear about other women or
women in politics, or you know,it's like, you're always too
much or not enough. You're tooshrill. You're too loud. You're
too bossy. You're too, you know,whatever. You're too passionate.
(15:23):
I've been told that before,like, simmer down, like, like,
why don't you care about this?
You know, I mean, that wasalways like, but yeah, all of
those labels, I just hear themall. Immediately, I'll just come
up, and they just make my bloodboil with like, I hate that
shit. I'm like, oh, sorry. Goahead. I'm
Unknown (15:43):
glad those feelings.
But that be a reminder, shouldwe ever be tempted to go back
into that environment? Yeah,they kind of shit on me, it was
a terrible performance review.
And I didn't really have muchspace to rebut it. I don't
recall the circumstances. Butbasically, I really didn't get a
(16:04):
chance. And I think they put meon some kind of probation, that
if things didn't improve, within90 days, that there was some
other consequence that I wasgoing to face. So I went back
and I can you imagine me wantingto work with the same guys
anymore. I mean, this is what'sreally cool, I look back. And I
(16:28):
am inspired to advocate for goodpeople as a result of this,
because I fortunately had a fewmanagers, other leaders from
other companies who advocatedfor me at the time. And so I
have a number of like nuggets ofwisdom to take away from my
(16:49):
story. And one of those is tojust show up and do the best you
can no matter where it is justno matter what anyone else says,
just show up, keep doing thebest you can. And there will
always be the you know, thenaysayers, there will always be
the people are going to try tobeat you up. But just keep going
(17:11):
with that. And apparently, I hadearned a good reputation. And
the work I was doing at thetime, was part of a team with a
like an integrated team withcontractors and all kinds of
companies. And what we weredoing at the time was, I worked
in both like the satellite andin the aerospace arena. So I was
(17:36):
a security consultant. And so Ihelped to write security policy.
But I also got into SystemSecurity Engineering. So I'd
work with engineering teams. SoI had my hands in a lot of
things. That's also not badwisdom, too, is just don't put
all your eggs in one basket,right? Like we're getting in
with a variety of people learn abunch of skills, and get
(17:59):
testimonials, all these thingshelp on a resume anyways. So
I'm, I'm I worked with thisintegrated team and these other
leaders found out about thisperformance review. And they
came to advocate for me andsaid, Listen, they let me know
that they were very happy withmy work, and very pressed cuz
few females in that industry. SoI thought about what they said.
(18:24):
And then I just made thiscommand decision, which was very
foolish at the time, but it ledme on another path, which is I'm
not dealing with the shipanymore. I'm quitting. I'm not
working for you guys. I have noplan. I have no job. I don't
know what I'm gonna do. But Ican't sustain this. I can't work
for these people. Yeah. Youknow, who wants to be in a
(18:44):
relationship with someone whodoesn't value and respect you?
Jamie Stephens (18:48):
Right? Yeah. And for them to just assume that
whatever they said was accurateversus like checking with
anybody else. It's just, itdoesn't matter what you say, you
know, in that, yeah, he
Unknown (19:00):
was a young guy that I worked for was my reviewer at
the time. And I think his socialskills were kind of weak,
underdeveloped, and trying to bekind. Yeah, his social skills
were just stocked and he was onthe career ladder. I mean, it
(19:20):
was his job me. Yeah. Didn'teven bother asking, you know,
when it just nothing made sense.
But I knew that I couldn't workfor so much slike being in a
relationship with anyone, youknow, whether it's in your
marriage and dating life, butwho wants to be with someone who
doesn't value and respect you?
And that's, that was one of myother nuggets here was to know
(19:44):
your worth and that plays a rolein the next part of my story.
And I'm proud of myself forknowing that I was worth more
than the the way that I wasbeing treated. Now what wasn't
too smart to just leave about aplay. But here's how the story
(20:08):
went. I was subsequently offereda position with the parents
subcontractor company. And thisis how amazing this story goes.
It was on my terms. Apparently,they were so enamored with what
I was doing, they didn't want tolose me. And they so they
offered me the opportunity tocreate my own terms. It's like,
(20:29):
we'll take you wherever youwant. You want to be a part time
employee, you want to be a fulltime employee, you want to be
consultant work for yourself,and like, oh, I work for myself,
Jamie Stephens (20:38):
like ding, ding, ding, that sounds enticing. I
have no idea what
Unknown (20:43):
that involves. But I said, who I like the idea of
being a consultant and workingfor myself. And I don't want to
work full time, because I couldsee potential that I can then
contract out to other companies.
And so I can have multiplecontracts, same time. And so I
submitted a proposal and shareand I was thinking about what am
I getting charged for my hourlyrate. Like I had no idea what I
(21:04):
was worth monetarily. Yeah.
Okay, I knew what my salary was.
But I had no idea how are yougoing to price yourself out when
you factor in now I'm going tohave my own health care of in
Africa, I'm going to have not alot of overhead as a consultant,
but I'm definitely going to wantto earn more to make this worth
my while. What other expenses? Ihad no experience in that area.
(21:26):
So I just got on and startedGoogling and talking with
people. And at the time, Ioffered myself up with a certain
rate said here's my proposal,and then they countered. He
said, We think you're worthmore. We're gonna give you 20
more dollars an hour. How doesthat sound?
Jamie Stephens (21:44):
More than countered with more?
Unknown (21:46):
Yes. Yes,
Jamie Stephens (21:49):
I have never had that happen. Yeah, good job. I
know looks like like she isgonna figure out that she is the
way underbid herself and begone. Yeah.
Unknown (21:59):
i So in hindsight, I think that they had when they
were to submit their ownproposals to the government, and
they're going to charge ratesfor their own people, they had
to charge a certain rate, theycouldn't just get away with
charging what I was offering.
And I think at the time, whichwas many years ago, was 35 bucks
an hour. Okay, so they upped itto 55 bucks an hour, which in
(22:21):
today's throw would probably beabout 100 bucks an hour, or
whatever. And, and so I think itwas smart on their part. They
knew the numbers I didn't butI'm like, Yeah, sure. So then I
segwayed into self employmentfor the first time now I was a
consultant. So yeah,
Jamie Stephens (22:40):
well, that is an interesting journey. I mean,
that is a meandering,meandering, I don't know how to,
I don't know what I'm saying.
But yeah,
Unknown (22:49):
in indirect path to where I am now. So it got me
into the position of working formyself and getting used to
setting my own hours. But it wasonly then when I worked for
myself, that I started thinkingabout what what mattered to me,
what would my ideal schedulelook like? Yeah. And it wasn't
working the hours that I wasworking. And suddenly, I started
(23:11):
seeing beyond that, andrealizing that life was bigger
than just this job. Yeah, I hadbeen. So I'm such a high
achiever and very driven that Igave everything to my job. And
it was my that was my sociallife. That was my work life. And
now that I was self employed, Icould set my own terms, I
started realizing that, youknow, I'd really like to do
(23:33):
other things and like to haveother experiences. Like to get
out of this field. And then soI, I, I set my own hours, I
started working just part timenow was really digging that. And
then at the time I was married.
And the short of that story isthat I had a tragedy happened, I
had a brother who was diagnosedwith leukemia, and we did the
(23:58):
whole year up and down, up anddown remission. And then you
know, regression remissionregression. Then he passed away
and my family fell apart. Andthat's when I had my first
spiritual awakening. So somepeople have that sooner, you
know, where they thinkintentionally about, who am I
what do I really want? Am Ireally on the right path?
Jamie Stephens (24:22):
I think it takes a crisis for most people. Or
some sort of, I'm into Jesus,like, I am broken. Yeah. You
know, like, yeah,
Unknown (24:32):
I really admire anyone who's able to live intentionally
and get off of the hamster wheeloff of life on autopilot and be
intentional about what theywant. But I agree, I think for
the most part, it's it's thepink slip. It's the health
(24:53):
crisis. It's the divorce, that'ssomeone gets sick in the family
and We have that awakening andthen so that this kind of, can I
just lead into quickly, like,ask me where I'm at. Okay, just
so I, I want women to know, whenI talk about helping them find
refine their purpose andpassion. Well, when they have
(25:14):
that awakening, whether it'safter a tragedy or kids grow up,
and then they move on, is whenyou realize that this isn't all
there is, what do you do next?
Like how do you decide whereyou're going to go? What you're
going to do, and I didn't have aplaybook at the time. And so I
thought, Well, I'm gonna go backto high school. And when I
graduated, what did I reallywant to do? I meant to go right.
(25:36):
And I took a left. And Irealized that I always was an
artsy creative type. And I endedup going down this path of this,
and I developed my analyticalself, which, yeah, me, I found I
had it in me, but that's notwasn't really in my nature. And
it required, I think, a lot moreenergy to try to keep up than
(25:58):
just being in alignment with whoI naturally was.
Jamie Stephens (26:03):
Yeah. I mean, the whole upstream versus
downstream.
Unknown (26:08):
Yeah, I paddled upstream. paddle upstream.
Definitely. Yeah. So that thatawakening and got me thinking,
what I want to do when I got outof high school, and I wanted to
be making people happy, I wantedto sing, I wanted to be on
stage. And so I went back, andI'm a grown up. And now I'm
going back and I'm doing vocalcoaching and tap lessons and
(26:31):
improvisational acting with theShakespeare Theatre in
Washington, DC.
Jamie Stephens (26:35):
So how old were you at this time? Can I ask
that?
Unknown (26:39):
Yeah, at that time, it was probably my mid 30s.
Jamie Stephens (26:42):
That's their fun, like to just be like,
that's what I'm doing now. Yeah,but yeah, I
Unknown (26:49):
was fun. I think there's another bit of wisdom
there is, is the topic of agingand feeling like you're too old.
Yeah, to try something new. AndI think that that can hold us
back to when we realize, afterhaving a full career in one
field or full marriage, and nowwe have this awakening is like,
I'm too old to go back and dothat. Well, you know, you're
(27:10):
never too old to do that. It's amatter of you dealing with the
fact that yeah, if you go backfor I can't even say anything I
did, would be filled with aclass of kids. But if let's say
I wanted to go back in our willor Karate and self defense and
something like that, um, yeah,there might be a lot of young
(27:32):
kids in the class. But hey,there's a place for grant.
There's a place for a second momin there. But you'll get over
yourself, you know, be yourself.
Jamie Stephens (27:43):
Yeah, I think it's that dropping of the ego
and what other people will thinkof your journey and what other
people's opinions are, that tendto hold us back. You know, I
think once you learn that, noneof that actually matters. And
most of the time, people arejust thinking about themselves
anyway. You know, I mean, like,once you just kind of
(28:06):
internalize that, like, anythingelse just becomes a lot easier,
because you're not constantlycomparing it to this version
that you think people arejudging you against, or the
scorecard or whatever.
Unknown (28:18):
Yeah, well, the it's human nature to want to fit in,
right. And it's a very strongabiding desire to belong
somewhere. So I understand thepower of that attachment to
other people's opinions. Butit's also hard when you want to
(28:39):
break free and do what you want,and not believe you're
disappointing anyone else? Andthen I would ask, why would you
rather disappoint yourself?
Right, then someone else?
Jamie Stephens (28:53):
Well, because we're taught that thinking of
ourselves first as selfish. Andyeah, really, it's like, if
you're not filling up your owncup, I mean, this is like, we're
just gonna be pouring on thewisdom drops here. But you know,
if you're not filling your owncup, you can't fill anybody
else's.
Unknown (29:09):
It was just after I had gone back to what I wanted to do
when I got to high school. And Ithink that that is the I think,
intuitively that was thedirection I knew I needed to go
to just figure out who do I wantto be? What do I want to be
because I don't like where I'mgoing anymore. Yeah. And now, if
(29:31):
I fast forward to what I do as alife coach, like and many of us
who decided to get into thisbusiness of life coaching, it's
because we've walked that walk.
We've dealt with all thestumbling blocks and falling
down and getting up and now wecan bring our own lived
experiences to the table. Isaid, Well, I think I can use my
(29:51):
old skill of creating formulasand plans and roadmaps and Even
though much of the journey tofinding the real you specially
in midlife, specially afteryou've had a path and your
career, and now you want to makea shift, some of this has to be
an intuitive a lot of it has tobe an intuitive effort. The
(30:16):
first step I recommend is justgetting to know who you are. And
sometimes that means taking timeoff taking like a gap year, like
when you graduate from highschool. Yeah. And you take that
time, one of our kids did that.
And I thought, oh, man, you'regonna lose time, you know, the
other ones going off to college,got a pathway. But one of the
(30:40):
wisest things he ever did was totake a gap year after high
school. So I think, financially,we can afford to take literally
that time off. But I think, inthat space, when I had a gap
year, I also just took on oddjobs to just explore what might
(31:00):
be out there for me, you know,like, I knew I wanted to work
for myself and have more controlover my schedule. But I did
stuff like substitute teaching,which I will never again, I
think I'm not cut out fordealing with all the way about
(31:23):
teaching at all. It's aboutmanaging behavior.
Jamie Stephens (31:29):
Yeah. Oh, thank you. No, yeah,
Unknown (31:32):
I did all kinds of odd jobs, though. I hooked up with
people instead of just jumpingout and grabbing what I could.
At the time, I had the luxury ofalso having jobs that maybe, you
know, they didn't have benefits.
I didn't need the benefits atthe time. If you need the
benefits, you're in a wholedifferent ballgame. But I did
(31:52):
things like washing eggs at alocal farm. Alright, because I
love chickens. And I figure itall right. I like being
outdoors. I like being at thefarm. I like the smell of manure
and all that stuff. So it's alot
Jamie Stephens (32:09):
of poop. Like your Midwest roots are like, I'm
gonna go Where are you gonnafarm?
Unknown (32:14):
Yeah, I picked up all kinds of odd jobs. And then I
ended up discovering that what Iwant to do is to coach other
women. So I started as a lifecoach. And it's some words, I
guess, some of my nuggets that Iwant to maybe end with. If if
anyone has any starts feeling atthe first sign of
(32:38):
dissatisfaction in your job, onyour career, in your marriage, I
think right away, right away,you need to be intentional about
exploring that and not justoverlook it and keep going on
business as usual. Becauseshould this will lead to a major
decision for you. You need atleast a year, two years, maybe
(33:02):
even three years to really knowfor sure that this is the right
thing for you. And that you'reon a path where if it's a matter
of a new job, where you're in anew field, where you're going to
make substantial money on yourown, some speaking more just
from the entrepreneurialjourney, and I think you can
(33:23):
speak to this too. Takes damnlong time to make enough money.
Jamie Stephens (33:27):
Yeah. Well, longer than you think. A lot
longer
Unknown (33:31):
than you think. So when you hear all of the six figure
people going out there to pickyours. And all I did is tweak
this, and I found the secretformula. And you know, within
the first year, that's what Iwas doing, I'd say pushing,
Jamie Stephens (33:44):
push, those are all the people that must have
spent their whole journeyleading up to that moment in
personal development. Yeah,right. Because that's the shit
that trips you up. It's not likenecessarily the strategy or what
you're doing or like figuringthings out. It's the internal
(34:04):
work to be able to do all thatstuff and receive and know your
worth, then, right? Feel thatyou have a valid point or that
you're you know, that you addvalue to the conversation, all
of those things, like keeppeople from not reaching them.
And it's not that like, I'm notgoing to reach that, like I know
(34:28):
I will. It's just taking longerthan I anticipated.
Unknown (34:31):
Yeah. Well, you nailed it. And you came up with a great
program yourself, which wouldhelp women who wanted to make
the leap to go from corporate,to employee to entrepreneur,
right, is to work on theinternal stuff. And I tend to
wonder if women in that space,really recognize the importance
(34:57):
of that, that they really knowthat That's what they had to do.
I don't know, if we just have tofind out for ourselves, and we
have to fall and get back up.
And then we can look back andgo, You know what she was?
Right? Yeah, that's what I needto do. But that's hard.
Jamie Stephens (35:14):
Because it's, you know, words don't teach. But
you know, as far as like thelessons that we really
internalize, or that we have to,I think that once you realize
some things are like the waythings work, that you can apply
that to other areas, and thenyou can learn the lessons from
those words, but until you have,like that crisis falling down
(35:37):
flat on the face, you know, allof those moments, I think, some
of these lessons, you just haveto go through them.
Unknown (35:45):
Yeah, you know, I think maybe one of the first
attraction messages that we gotoward is the the money part. In
Play. We're like, Okay, I know,I want to make a switch. I know,
I don't like this anymore. Thiscoach promises that she can help
me earn X amount of money. Andso I'm gonna do this, she's got
(36:08):
a system, I'm just gonna buyinto the system, it's plug and
play. I mean, I bought into anumber of those myself, yeah,
I'm going to save time, I'm justgoing to make that leap. And
immediately, I'm going to justuse the system, and I'm gonna
start with the money. Alright,so this is this kind of constant
messaging and myself buying intodollars, dozens of these
(36:32):
programs over the past fouryears, as I've been a coach, I
finally came to terms with thereality that, yes, it is, your
success financially will dependon your personal development
journey, and how much and thecapacity that you have to
(36:56):
embrace this. But even if ittakes a while for you to make
your first $5, I say celebratethat first $5, because you're
better off than many who have ahard time making any money at
all, because the majority of uscannot make money in the
coaching realm. When we firststart off, there's all kinds of
(37:18):
things to consider. What modelare you going to choose? Are you
going to do one to one coaching?
And do you feel confident enoughis a one to one coach, and how
do you properly coach you know,there's, there's just a whole
lot of untangling, we need tofor example, I'm the oldest of
five kids, I've always had amore of a light fire on your
butt, kind of a mothering and aparenting, Nellie, well, that
(37:42):
doesn't go over as well, in thecoaching realm. Okay, he kind of
let people figure things out forthemselves. Yeah. So if you're
just spoon feeding or if you'relighting fire, and they're
feeling bad about themselves,you're not going to get rehired?
Jamie Stephens (37:59):
Yeah, well, also, that just puts all of the
work on you, right? Part of itis just learning to light your
own fire learning to you know,do the things that get you
motivated, because they'redifferent for everybody. So
yeah, I mean, like, you don'twant to just create those same
(38:20):
situations for people and likeunderstanding how your role in
plays out in that. And like thethings that you have to learn
for yourself. There's just somany layers upon layers of like
things to unpack
Unknown (38:33):
layers upon layers. So as I have evolved in the
coaching realm, and by far, I'mnot financially where I would
like to be, but, you know, weall need to have a vision. And
it has to be strong enough forus to keep dealing with the
stumbling blocks. And that Ifind the stumbling blocks is the
(38:57):
end people in the space ofstumbling. That's the space I
want to work with, with women,because I've been there. I know
a lot of those stumbling blocks.
I'm not yet your six figurecoach who's going to be going
yeah, I might get you sixfigures. But I bought into a lot
of six figure coach programs.
(39:17):
They worked with me during mystumbling blocks, right? If I
couldn't keep up, they mighteven lead me to believe that I
had mindset problems. And sothey kind of abandoned me so
that I fall back.
Jamie Stephens (39:32):
I think we're both familiar with that coach
you're talking about?
Unknown (39:35):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jamie Stephens (39:37):
I mean, it's, you know, different strokes for
different folks, I suppose. But
Unknown (39:41):
yeah. So so they're I love to work with women who are
in this space. So I work bothwith women and again, we spoke
earlier, I did do a bit of oneto one coaching with a few men.
And I kind of enjoyed thatbecause they came to me with
relation Ship issues. So I gotto kind of be the voice of the
(40:04):
woman. And of course, I didn'ttell them what to think. But I
knew enough that there were bothsides and story. And I gotta
give a guy credit, if he'sstepping up to ask for help.
Yeah, so for sure how it didbad, but I am meeting right now
with women because I didn'treally work a lot with women in
(40:25):
my past, I didn't have sisters Iworked in a male dominated field
gets kind of cathartic for me toalso surround myself with more
feminine energy and balance offand that's part of my journey is
cultivating more of myfemininity and my feminine
energy, and then the nurturingand the beauty and just the the
(40:49):
sisterhood. Yeah, so I'm lovingthat space. And that's why now I
specialize in coaching women,particularly those who,
typically they're in midlife,because that's usually where we
have our Inner Awakenings.
Right. And I want to helpnavigate you through the
uncertainty of where you'regoing by specially love working
(41:11):
in a space with women who'vemade the decision that they want
more from this outs, they wantto tap into their fullest
potential, which means thatthey're going to either start up
that new business, they're goingto make a major shift. They're
ready to deal with the stumblingblocks. And I want to be there
(41:33):
for you with what else aformula.
Jamie Stephens (41:40):
Yeah, exactly.
All right. Well, Jen, do youwant to tell people where they
can find you find more aboutyour programs, your sisterhood,
all of those things?
Unknown (41:51):
Thank you. Well, I'm most of what I do, I've
consolidated onto my website atJenn silbert.com. And that will
let you know my major pathwaysof connection to work together
with you would be either one toone coaching, which I love to
(42:11):
do, but I'm actually enjoyingmoving more into in group
coaching now where I can workwith a specific group of women
on specific issues. Because whatI love community, yeah. And so I
created the Met for more successcommunity or just a birthing
that. And we have a system, wework on a theme every single
(42:33):
month of a different success,pillar, confidence and purpose
and boys and self care andcourage. And that's something
that's bringing me joy rightnow. And then the other is
something I'm about to launch atthe end of August, which is my
woman speak heart and soul ofpublic speaking program. Those
(42:54):
are women. So this is for womenwho really want to learn how to
cultivate their, their strongestvoice, and learn how to overcome
the fear of sharing it, andstepping into a confident self,
public speaking, whether it'sjust in a small crowd, whether
(43:14):
it's on stages, but it's atransformational program to get
you comfortable with speaking infront of other people. So, so
excited to launch that I
Jamie Stephens (43:24):
love that you're gonna put all your Shakespearean
skills into effect.
Unknown (43:31):
It's definitely a system. It's specifically geared
toward women, the founder ofthis program has been training a
lot of women who go on to do TEDtalks, and she was a speaker in
front of the United Nationsspeaking specifically for women.
But you think about that,looking at our history, we've
worked in a male dominated fieldand just not really learned how
(43:54):
to cultivate a more feminineway, is sharing our message. So
we can be impactful and not feelafraid of the showing up as the
manly self. It's feeling inalignment with your feminine
energy. So that's also on mywebsite. So link to that is, is
(44:14):
there as well.
Jamie Stephens (44:15):
Awesome. And I will put all of that in the show
notes as well. So thank you somuch, Jen.
Unknown (44:21):
Thank you, Jamie. I wish you all the luck too. Thank
you so much for producing such agreat podcast. You know,
speaking of voice, thank you somuch for having a platform for
women to share their voice.
You're doing a job.
Jamie Stephens (44:33):
Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thanks to Jan
for being on the show. It wasfun to hear some of the stories
that have shaped the woman Iknow today. It also offers us an
opportunity to reflect on someof the ways our journey has
shaped us. There's always justso many layers when we're ready
to look and it's part of thereason I love this work so much.
(44:54):
So some of the key takeawaysfrom this episode are number one
celebrate we He gets so busyalways thinking about what's
next that we forget to pause andcelebrate how far we've come.
Challenge yourself to celebratethe wins, big and small. Number
two, notice your conditioning.
As a woman in corporate, you canend up making reflexive micro
adjustments to your authenticself without even noticing.
(45:18):
Whether it's the change in yourvoice, your choice of clothing,
or the way he respond inmeetings, it's important to look
at these things with curiosity.
Number three, f all the labels,you will always be too much for
some people and not enough forothers. So here's your
permission slip to be 100% youand let people have their
(45:40):
opinions, people are going tothink and believe what they
want. And that is just fine.
Number four, just show up and dothe best you can. As long as
you're living life with thatkind of integrity, you can
disregard the people that arethere to just try to undermine
you and bring you down. Thingsmay not go exactly how you'd
like them to, but you'll knowthat you've done your best.
Number five, know your worth.
(46:03):
And don't underestimateyourself. This is about more
than money. How are you beingtreated in your work and other
relationships? Is it worth it?
Knowing your worth andrecognizing where there's an
imbalance can lead to a bigchange. Number six, there's more
to life than your job. There'slife to live places to see and
so much more to who you are thanyour career. Kudos to those that
(46:24):
can learn to step off thehamster wheel and start living
intentionally without a crisis.
But unfortunately, that'susually what it takes for people
to wake up to what they reallywant. Number seven, upstream or
downstream. When you're paddlingupstream, fighting against your
nature, it takes a lot ofenergy. What happens if you
(46:45):
reevaluate and make changes thatallow you to live in the
downstream effortless flow moreof the time. Number eight, give
yourself a gap year, if you cantake some time to figure out
what you like to do. If you wereto drop the ego and perceived
expectations, what would youwant to do or explore it takes
time to reconnect with yourselfand figure this stuff out?
(47:08):
Number nine different coach fordifferent folks. There are all
kinds of mentors and coaches outthere. Remember that you get to
seek out the kind of coach thatworks for you and your needs.
Okay, thank you friend. That isit for this week. Thanks to Jen
for joining me on the show andsharing her wisdom drops with
us. You can find all the linksin the show notes. And if you're
(47:29):
feeling like a rock star, goahead and send this episode to a
friend or leave a review so morewomen can find this show. Until
next time find me on Instagramat Jamie Renee
So I submitted a proposal. And Sharon, I was
(00:04):
thinking about what am I goingto charge for my hourly rate?
Like I had no idea what I wasworth monetarily. Yeah, I knew
what my salary was, but I had noidea how are you going to price
yourself out when you factor innow I'm gonna have my own health
care and have to get I'm gonnahave not a lot of overhead as a
consultant, but I'm definitelygoing to want to earn more to
make this worth my while. Whatother expenses? I had no
(00:27):
experience in that area. So Ijust got out and started
Googling and talking withpeople. And at the time, I
offered myself up with a certainrate said, Here's my proposal,
and then they countered, hesaid, We think you're worth
more. We're gonna give you 20more dollars an hour. How does
that sound? More
Jamie Stephens (00:45):
than countered with more?
Unknown (00:46):
Yes. Yes,
Jamie Stephens (00:49):
I have never had that happen. Yeah, good job. I
know. Thanks for tuning in toanother episode of Breaking up
with corporate each week I chatwith everyday women that ditch
their nine to five to bet onthemselves. We break down their
journey into entrepreneurship,unpack the lessons learned and
create the vision of how thislife gets to be if you're
(01:11):
willing to get uncomfortable andstep into your potential. I'm
your host, Jamie Renee, to timecorporate escapee and coach to
burnout women looking to plantheir escape. Let's go.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Breaking up
with corporate today I have myfriend Jen silver on and Jen
(01:35):
lives in Maryland, and she is aconfidence and success coach.
Welcome to the show, Jen.
Unknown (01:41):
Hey, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me,
Jamie, you, you've got a greatshow. A great thing going on
your podcast.
Jamie Stephens (01:49):
Thank you so much. It's been so fun. And it's
really just kind of blown mymind about all the amazing women
I've been able to meet this yearand speak with and learn from
and I am just totally geekingout on everything that I learned
from everybody. Because it'sjust the the downside of that is
it does give me a little bit ofa like squirrel squirrel, you
(02:11):
know, to where I'm like, Oh,that's a good idea. Because I
just hear so much from women andtheir brilliance. And I just
love to share it. And I just,it's very inspiring for me. So
and I am so glad that you arehere to join us as well.
Unknown (02:25):
Thank you. I've been listening to a number of your
podcasts. And I've been veryimpressed with many of them when
first time thinking Where do youfind all these women? You know,
they could we've all got theirown individual stories and
experiences and wisdom to share.
And I mean, you are collecting amother lode. Really some amazing
women. So yay, on you.
Jamie Stephens (02:48):
Yay, yay, yay.
I'll accept that.
Unknown (02:51):
Celebrate that win.
Yeah. All right,
Jamie Stephens (02:53):
Jen, why don't you tell us your corporate story
and kind of how you came to be acompetence and success coach.
And we'll kind of start withcorporate and then jump into the
journey of leaving that and gofrom there. So you can just kick
us off?
Unknown (03:08):
Yeah, well, it's a squirrely path. But that's my
trademark. I rarely ever take astraight line, you know, toward
where I'm going, at least thatwas my history. Now I feel like
I know who I am and what I wantto do. So I think it will maybe
evolve, you know, a little butnot as dramatically as it has.
So yeah, I, I love telling thestory. And it was great to
(03:31):
revisit it. So I appreciate theopportunity to do that. Because
by looking back at where you'vebeen, you get to really want to
see how far you've come. Andthen celebrate that. And I think
that that area of celebration iswhere I find we don't sit very
often we're always looking atokay, what else can I do? And
(03:51):
we're in that pattern of gettingbetter learning more. You know,
analyzing our decisions, do wemake the right one and that so
just sitting here celebratingthe progress that I made, and
saying, Hey, I survived. Right?
It's a bit it's a big deal. Isurvived. And I got to where I'm
(04:12):
at. So yeah, especially since asI revisited my story, I realized
that some of the shifts I madereally weren't all the they
might have seemed foolish at thetime because they really have a
plan. Yeah, really have a plan.
So I took some notes to remindmyself because it was a
(04:32):
squirrely path. But I was reallyin the the military industrial
complex. You know, I got intothe military out of school. And
then I spent about eight yearsin the military and I landed in
Washington DC. And so this isthe hub for so many military
contractors. So if you have asecurity clearance, you are in
(04:55):
the military, you're pretty muchguaranteed a great job in the
Industrial Complex. And and Idid and I don't know how I got
there. But it was, again, justhappenstance that I even got
this job in military but I camein as a counterintelligence
agent, like straight fresh offthe street. So by the time I
Jamie Stephens (05:16):
know hearing this story, this is crazy. idea
you're in the military, likewhy?
Unknown (05:23):
Yeah. Well listen, if you're on Wisconsin, who is from
a small town, anyone from theMidwest, and you don't have
enough money to get to college?
I mean, I was working three jobstrying to get myself through
community college seriously. Andmy parents had no money to give
me I was burnt out. And I waslooking through the classified
(05:46):
ads, and I saw this job for acommunication specialist and in
the army, and I'm like, I was sonaive. I was like, Oh, I did
really well in communicationsclass in high school. Isn't the
job for me. Little did I knowthat it was gonna be like laying
line, you know, out in the fieldfor communications unit. You
(06:06):
know what I mean? Yeah. Wasn'tit wasn't me speaking Tandy,
buddy? Yeah, your cable nowmight vary in cable, right? So
thank God, I didn't get thatjob. But I got through all of
the tests, physical tests andthe written tests. Then they
match up what jobs areavailable. And so there was this
(06:28):
counterintelligence agent jobsthat hate, you know, this MOS
that has just become available.
And all the recruiters are like,ooh, this sounds like James Bond
style. Looks that and I'm like,all I wanted to know was when I
get to Germany, because now Iwill say that for myself, I had
a vision, which was I wanted togo to Germany, because my mom's
(06:50):
German, I'd been there beforewanted to trial. They said, Oh,
yeah, we can do we'll do all wecan promise you anything. And
then they said, Well, yourschooling would be at Fort
Huachuca in Arizona, like, Inever been to Arizona. Sounds
good. So there, I was not havingany idea what I'd be doing. But
(07:14):
I did do eight years in themilitary, they got me to Germany
came back to Washington, DC. Andthen at the time, to realist
would have meant I had to goback to Italy, they were going
to send me there. And I said,Nah, I got a boyfriend now. So
that guided my decision to stay,which I don't think anyone
(07:37):
listening, although I don'tknow, sometimes we make our
decisions based on ourattachment to some romantic
liaison, right? You're like, No,I'm in love with this person.
And if I went for what I wanted,it would mean I'd have to leave
them behind. And I don't know,I'm gonna stay. Well, that
(07:59):
relationship did not work out.
It was a disaster, actually. ButI almost almost went bankrupt
and bad. But I did end uplanding my first contractor job
with an outfit outside ofWashington, DC, and I got to
wear a suit. And I felt like Iwas, you know, I was I was in
corporate now. And then that wasmy journey, jumping from one ABC
(08:21):
company to another, justflitting, I mean, I, I lucked
out. And I will say I probablyhad the privilege of being a
female, at which it was apredominantly male space. And I
think they dug the idea ofhaving a female in the space
plus, it was I always openspace, I felt comfortable. And
(08:46):
so I took on the whole masculinepersona. Yeah. And you probably
hear a lot of stories from womenwho ended up subscribing to
that, because that's how we'reconditioned.
Jamie Stephens (08:58):
Yeah, that's the norm. Like, that's what it means
to be in corporate MBM. But, youknow, I automatically go to my
lower voice, you know, even it'slike I leave, that's just the
expectation until we change it.
You know, I mean, that's, that'sthe difference is what we see as
norms and the things that wesubscribe to are just because
whenever all of these thingswere built, like we weren't part
(09:21):
of that discussion as women likewe weren't even a consideration.
And so now that we are I mean,it's like that. That's the
challenge is not justsubscribing to it as that's the
best way. That's just the onlyway that we've seen because we
weren't part of theconversation. So yeah, I get
that.
Unknown (09:43):
Yeah, I did train myself to lower my voice,
because I either inherently orafter being led to believe that
I could be more authoritativewith my lower voice. I did take
on that lower boys. But as Ilook back and celebrate this
(10:06):
space where I did step into myown authentic self, I defied the
norm in that environment, whichwas to show up with my power
suit in one of three colors, youknow what those three colors
should be?
Jamie Stephens (10:22):
Red, White and Blue.
Unknown (10:27):
It shouldn't be, that would be more, you know, that
was seem the case when you'reworking for the military
industrial complex, but it wasthat light gray and navy, black,
gray navy. Okay, so those werethe power suits of the
institution. And I did work witha few women, the successful
(10:48):
women who got into the pocketsof the leaders, were wearing
those colors on a job, but notme. I was either too naive, or
just because I was in art, I hadan artistic self. And that's an
important part of the story.
Because I was reconditioned tobecome a person I was not
because it's it's like you'reswimming with the fish. And you
(11:12):
eventually got to like stay inline in order to stay with the
school while you're moving. Andso I, I was conditioned to
eventually buy into that wholepresence. All right, he's that
whole person. But it was after Ikept getting into trouble for
trying to be my own self. So Iwore bright colored suits, and I
(11:35):
wear big, clunky jewelry. Andthat was my way of expressing my
creative side. But I was verynaive when I jumped into this
whole business. Because when youget into the military, we get
into that whole world, you're inWashington, DC, there's not
really a lot of space forcreativity. But I, I eventually
(11:55):
got in line after beingcounseled a number of times to
kind of tone it down, like pullback. Don't be that South. If I
kept going forward, I found thatI was getting rewarded. And I
was moving from one company tothe next as a contractor. So the
way that environment works is ifhe lifts, let's say you get a
(12:20):
job with a large contractor youusually out on subcontract jobs.
And oftentimes that can meanyou're going to work physically
at the location of yoursubcontractor. There were just
other ABC companies. But I'veworked with the likes of like
Boeing and Lockheed and GE andthey probably all merged and
(12:41):
become different companies now.
But eventually, I landed a jobwith a large company who
contracted me out to twodifferent places. And I enjoyed
that. And I developed a goodrelationship with the
subcontractors because I workedhard. I mean, I, I worked hard,
(13:05):
and I celebrate that. And Ifound little places where I
could be creative, but now itwas more along the lines of
information and how I canmanipulate information to create
plans. And that's why today Istill see myself as like the
queen of roadmaps and systemsand for me was because they came
(13:27):
from this and it was my space tobe creative. Yeah, I was doing
fine until I got put into aposition of my first managerial
job. I ended up in a positionwhere I had to oversee a small
group of people, were theywomen? No, they were men. Okay.
(13:51):
So it was interesting. Therewere a few men I work with who
didn't have any problem workingfor me. But first off, I was new
and feeling my way around. Andby that I was I had a great
relationship with a contractor.
So I felt I was on solidfooting. I knew what they
wanted. And then I wouldtranslate that to my little
team. But there were a few menwho had a hard time working for
(14:14):
me. And so apparently, they wentback to complain to my parent
company. But my parent companydidn't really see me day to day
in the workspace. Yeah, theyknew that they knew the customer
was happy, but they didn't seeme become performance review
time. They shit on me. I'msorry. There's no other way of
(14:37):
saying it, but they shut on me.
And largely because these menhad gone back to complain about
my style. So with
Jamie Stephens (14:50):
that just rubs me
Unknown (14:54):
free right now. I mean, seriously? Yeah. i
Jamie Stephens (14:59):
You just I mean, like, I automatically hear all
of the labels, and all of thelabels that I've heard over my
career, all of the labels thatyou hear about other women or
women in politics, or you know,it's like, you're always too
much or not enough. You're tooshrill. You're too loud. You're
too bossy. You're too, you know,whatever. You're too passionate.
(15:23):
I've been told that before,like, simmer down, like, like,
why don't you care about this?
You know, I mean, that wasalways like, but yeah, all of
those labels, I just hear themall. Immediately, I'll just come
up, and they just make my bloodboil with like, I hate that
shit. I'm like, oh, sorry. Goahead. I'm
Unknown (15:43):
glad those feelings.
But that be a reminder, shouldwe ever be tempted to go back
into that environment? Yeah,they kind of shit on me, it was
a terrible performance review.
And I didn't really have muchspace to rebut it. I don't
recall the circumstances. Butbasically, I really didn't get a
(16:04):
chance. And I think they put meon some kind of probation, that
if things didn't improve, within90 days, that there was some
other consequence that I wasgoing to face. So I went back
and I can you imagine me wantingto work with the same guys
anymore. I mean, this is what'sreally cool, I look back. And I
(16:28):
am inspired to advocate for goodpeople as a result of this,
because I fortunately had a fewmanagers, other leaders from
other companies who advocatedfor me at the time. And so I
have a number of like nuggets ofwisdom to take away from my
(16:49):
story. And one of those is tojust show up and do the best you
can no matter where it is justno matter what anyone else says,
just show up, keep doing thebest you can. And there will
always be the you know, thenaysayers, there will always be
the people are going to try tobeat you up. But just keep going
(17:11):
with that. And apparently, I hadearned a good reputation. And
the work I was doing at thetime, was part of a team with a
like an integrated team withcontractors and all kinds of
companies. And what we weredoing at the time was, I worked
in both like the satellite andin the aerospace arena. So I was
(17:36):
a security consultant. And so Ihelped to write security policy.
But I also got into SystemSecurity Engineering. So I'd
work with engineering teams. SoI had my hands in a lot of
things. That's also not badwisdom, too, is just don't put
all your eggs in one basket,right? Like we're getting in
with a variety of people learn abunch of skills, and get
(17:59):
testimonials, all these thingshelp on a resume anyways. So
I'm, I'm I worked with thisintegrated team and these other
leaders found out about thisperformance review. And they
came to advocate for me andsaid, Listen, they let me know
that they were very happy withmy work, and very pressed cuz
few females in that industry. SoI thought about what they said.
(18:24):
And then I just made thiscommand decision, which was very
foolish at the time, but it ledme on another path, which is I'm
not dealing with the shipanymore. I'm quitting. I'm not
working for you guys. I have noplan. I have no job. I don't
know what I'm gonna do. But Ican't sustain this. I can't work
for these people. Yeah. Youknow, who wants to be in a
(18:44):
relationship with someone whodoesn't value and respect you?
Jamie Stephens (18:48):
Right? Yeah. And for them to just assume that
whatever they said was accurateversus like checking with
anybody else. It's just, itdoesn't matter what you say, you
know, in that, yeah, he
Unknown (19:00):
was a young guy that I worked for was my reviewer at
the time. And I think his socialskills were kind of weak,
underdeveloped, and trying to bekind. Yeah, his social skills
were just stocked and he was onthe career ladder. I mean, it
(19:20):
was his job me. Yeah. Didn'teven bother asking, you know,
when it just nothing made sense.
But I knew that I couldn't workfor so much slike being in a
relationship with anyone, youknow, whether it's in your
marriage and dating life, butwho wants to be with someone who
doesn't value and respect you?
And that's, that was one of myother nuggets here was to know
(19:44):
your worth and that plays a rolein the next part of my story.
And I'm proud of myself forknowing that I was worth more
than the the way that I wasbeing treated. Now what wasn't
too smart to just leave about aplay. But here's how the story
(20:08):
went. I was subsequently offereda position with the parents
subcontractor company. And thisis how amazing this story goes.
It was on my terms. Apparently,they were so enamored with what
I was doing, they didn't want tolose me. And they so they
offered me the opportunity tocreate my own terms. It's like,
(20:29):
we'll take you wherever youwant. You want to be a part time
employee, you want to be a fulltime employee, you want to be
consultant work for yourself,and like, oh, I work for myself,
Jamie Stephens (20:38):
like ding, ding, ding, that sounds enticing. I
have no idea what
Unknown (20:43):
that involves. But I said, who I like the idea of
being a consultant and workingfor myself. And I don't want to
work full time, because I couldsee potential that I can then
contract out to other companies.
And so I can have multiplecontracts, same time. And so I
submitted a proposal and shareand I was thinking about what am
I getting charged for my hourlyrate. Like I had no idea what I
(21:04):
was worth monetarily. Yeah.
Okay, I knew what my salary was.
But I had no idea how are yougoing to price yourself out when
you factor in now I'm going tohave my own health care of in
Africa, I'm going to have not alot of overhead as a consultant,
but I'm definitely going to wantto earn more to make this worth
my while. What other expenses? Ihad no experience in that area.
(21:26):
So I just got on and startedGoogling and talking with
people. And at the time, Ioffered myself up with a certain
rate said here's my proposal,and then they countered. He
said, We think you're worthmore. We're gonna give you 20
more dollars an hour. How doesthat sound?
Jamie Stephens (21:44):
More than countered with more?
Unknown (21:46):
Yes. Yes,
Jamie Stephens (21:49):
I have never had that happen. Yeah, good job. I
know looks like like she isgonna figure out that she is the
way underbid herself and begone. Yeah.
Unknown (21:59):
i So in hindsight, I think that they had when they
were to submit their ownproposals to the government, and
they're going to charge ratesfor their own people, they had
to charge a certain rate, theycouldn't just get away with
charging what I was offering.
And I think at the time, whichwas many years ago, was 35 bucks
an hour. Okay, so they upped itto 55 bucks an hour, which in
(22:21):
today's throw would probably beabout 100 bucks an hour, or
whatever. And, and so I think itwas smart on their part. They
knew the numbers I didn't butI'm like, Yeah, sure. So then I
segwayed into self employmentfor the first time now I was a
consultant. So yeah,
Jamie Stephens (22:40):
well, that is an interesting journey. I mean,
that is a meandering,meandering, I don't know how to,
I don't know what I'm saying.
But yeah,
Unknown (22:49):
in indirect path to where I am now. So it got me
into the position of working formyself and getting used to
setting my own hours. But it wasonly then when I worked for
myself, that I started thinkingabout what what mattered to me,
what would my ideal schedulelook like? Yeah. And it wasn't
working the hours that I wasworking. And suddenly, I started
(23:11):
seeing beyond that, andrealizing that life was bigger
than just this job. Yeah, I hadbeen. So I'm such a high
achiever and very driven that Igave everything to my job. And
it was my that was my sociallife. That was my work life. And
now that I was self employed, Icould set my own terms, I
started realizing that, youknow, I'd really like to do
(23:33):
other things and like to haveother experiences. Like to get
out of this field. And then soI, I, I set my own hours, I
started working just part timenow was really digging that. And
then at the time I was married.
And the short of that story isthat I had a tragedy happened, I
had a brother who was diagnosedwith leukemia, and we did the
(23:58):
whole year up and down, up anddown remission. And then you
know, regression remissionregression. Then he passed away
and my family fell apart. Andthat's when I had my first
spiritual awakening. So somepeople have that sooner, you
know, where they thinkintentionally about, who am I
what do I really want? Am Ireally on the right path?
Jamie Stephens (24:22):
I think it takes a crisis for most people. Or
some sort of, I'm into Jesus,like, I am broken. Yeah. You
know, like, yeah,
Unknown (24:32):
I really admire anyone who's able to live intentionally
and get off of the hamster wheeloff of life on autopilot and be
intentional about what theywant. But I agree, I think for
the most part, it's it's thepink slip. It's the health
(24:53):
crisis. It's the divorce, that'ssomeone gets sick in the family
and We have that awakening andthen so that this kind of, can I
just lead into quickly, like,ask me where I'm at. Okay, just
so I, I want women to know, whenI talk about helping them find
refine their purpose andpassion. Well, when they have
(25:14):
that awakening, whether it'safter a tragedy or kids grow up,
and then they move on, is whenyou realize that this isn't all
there is, what do you do next?
Like how do you decide whereyou're going to go? What you're
going to do, and I didn't have aplaybook at the time. And so I
thought, Well, I'm gonna go backto high school. And when I
graduated, what did I reallywant to do? I meant to go right.
(25:36):
And I took a left. And Irealized that I always was an
artsy creative type. And I endedup going down this path of this,
and I developed my analyticalself, which, yeah, me, I found I
had it in me, but that's notwasn't really in my nature. And
it required, I think, a lot moreenergy to try to keep up than
(25:58):
just being in alignment with whoI naturally was.
Jamie Stephens (26:03):
Yeah. I mean, the whole upstream versus
downstream.
Unknown (26:08):
Yeah, I paddled upstream. paddle upstream.
Definitely. Yeah. So that thatawakening and got me thinking,
what I want to do when I got outof high school, and I wanted to
be making people happy, I wantedto sing, I wanted to be on
stage. And so I went back, andI'm a grown up. And now I'm
going back and I'm doing vocalcoaching and tap lessons and
(26:31):
improvisational acting with theShakespeare Theatre in
Washington, DC.
Jamie Stephens (26:35):
So how old were you at this time? Can I ask
that?
Unknown (26:39):
Yeah, at that time, it was probably my mid 30s.
Jamie Stephens (26:42):
That's their fun, like to just be like,
that's what I'm doing now. Yeah,but yeah, I
Unknown (26:49):
was fun. I think there's another bit of wisdom
there is, is the topic of agingand feeling like you're too old.
Yeah, to try something new. AndI think that that can hold us
back to when we realize, afterhaving a full career in one
field or full marriage, and nowwe have this awakening is like,
I'm too old to go back and dothat. Well, you know, you're
(27:10):
never too old to do that. It's amatter of you dealing with the
fact that yeah, if you go backfor I can't even say anything I
did, would be filled with aclass of kids. But if let's say
I wanted to go back in our willor Karate and self defense and
something like that, um, yeah,there might be a lot of young
(27:32):
kids in the class. But hey,there's a place for grant.
There's a place for a second momin there. But you'll get over
yourself, you know, be yourself.
Jamie Stephens (27:43):
Yeah, I think it's that dropping of the ego
and what other people will thinkof your journey and what other
people's opinions are, that tendto hold us back. You know, I
think once you learn that, noneof that actually matters. And
most of the time, people arejust thinking about themselves
anyway. You know, I mean, like,once you just kind of
(28:06):
internalize that, like, anythingelse just becomes a lot easier,
because you're not constantlycomparing it to this version
that you think people arejudging you against, or the
scorecard or whatever.
Unknown (28:18):
Yeah, well, the it's human nature to want to fit in,
right. And it's a very strongabiding desire to belong
somewhere. So I understand thepower of that attachment to
other people's opinions. Butit's also hard when you want to
(28:39):
break free and do what you want,and not believe you're
disappointing anyone else? Andthen I would ask, why would you
rather disappoint yourself?
Right, then someone else?
Jamie Stephens (28:53):
Well, because we're taught that thinking of
ourselves first as selfish. Andyeah, really, it's like, if
you're not filling up your owncup, I mean, this is like, we're
just gonna be pouring on thewisdom drops here. But you know,
if you're not filling your owncup, you can't fill anybody
else's.
Unknown (29:09):
It was just after I had gone back to what I wanted to do
when I got to high school. And Ithink that that is the I think,
intuitively that was thedirection I knew I needed to go
to just figure out who do I wantto be? What do I want to be
because I don't like where I'mgoing anymore. Yeah. And now, if
(29:31):
I fast forward to what I do as alife coach, like and many of us
who decided to get into thisbusiness of life coaching, it's
because we've walked that walk.
We've dealt with all thestumbling blocks and falling
down and getting up and now wecan bring our own lived
experiences to the table. Isaid, Well, I think I can use my
(29:51):
old skill of creating formulasand plans and roadmaps and Even
though much of the journey tofinding the real you specially
in midlife, specially afteryou've had a path and your
career, and now you want to makea shift, some of this has to be
an intuitive a lot of it has tobe an intuitive effort. The
(30:16):
first step I recommend is justgetting to know who you are. And
sometimes that means taking timeoff taking like a gap year, like
when you graduate from highschool. Yeah. And you take that
time, one of our kids did that.
And I thought, oh, man, you'regonna lose time, you know, the
other ones going off to college,got a pathway. But one of the
(30:40):
wisest things he ever did was totake a gap year after high
school. So I think, financially,we can afford to take literally
that time off. But I think, inthat space, when I had a gap
year, I also just took on oddjobs to just explore what might
(31:00):
be out there for me, you know,like, I knew I wanted to work
for myself and have more controlover my schedule. But I did
stuff like substitute teaching,which I will never again, I
think I'm not cut out fordealing with all the way about
(31:23):
teaching at all. It's aboutmanaging behavior.
Jamie Stephens (31:29):
Yeah. Oh, thank you. No, yeah,
Unknown (31:32):
I did all kinds of odd jobs, though. I hooked up with
people instead of just jumpingout and grabbing what I could.
At the time, I had the luxury ofalso having jobs that maybe, you
know, they didn't have benefits.
I didn't need the benefits atthe time. If you need the
benefits, you're in a wholedifferent ballgame. But I did
(31:52):
things like washing eggs at alocal farm. Alright, because I
love chickens. And I figure itall right. I like being
outdoors. I like being at thefarm. I like the smell of manure
and all that stuff. So it's alot
Jamie Stephens (32:09):
of poop. Like your Midwest roots are like, I'm
gonna go Where are you gonnafarm?
Unknown (32:14):
Yeah, I picked up all kinds of odd jobs. And then I
ended up discovering that what Iwant to do is to coach other
women. So I started as a lifecoach. And it's some words, I
guess, some of my nuggets that Iwant to maybe end with. If if
anyone has any starts feeling atthe first sign of
(32:38):
dissatisfaction in your job, onyour career, in your marriage, I
think right away, right away,you need to be intentional about
exploring that and not justoverlook it and keep going on
business as usual. Becauseshould this will lead to a major
decision for you. You need atleast a year, two years, maybe
(33:02):
even three years to really knowfor sure that this is the right
thing for you. And that you'reon a path where if it's a matter
of a new job, where you're in anew field, where you're going to
make substantial money on yourown, some speaking more just
from the entrepreneurialjourney, and I think you can
(33:23):
speak to this too. Takes damnlong time to make enough money.
Jamie Stephens (33:27):
Yeah. Well, longer than you think. A lot
longer
Unknown (33:31):
than you think. So when you hear all of the six figure
people going out there to pickyours. And all I did is tweak
this, and I found the secretformula. And you know, within
the first year, that's what Iwas doing, I'd say pushing,
Jamie Stephens (33:44):
push, those are all the people that must have
spent their whole journeyleading up to that moment in
personal development. Yeah,right. Because that's the shit
that trips you up. It's not likenecessarily the strategy or what
you're doing or like figuringthings out. It's the internal
(34:04):
work to be able to do all thatstuff and receive and know your
worth, then, right? Feel thatyou have a valid point or that
you're you know, that you addvalue to the conversation, all
of those things, like keeppeople from not reaching them.
And it's not that like, I'm notgoing to reach that, like I know
(34:28):
I will. It's just taking longerthan I anticipated.
Unknown (34:31):
Yeah. Well, you nailed it. And you came up with a great
program yourself, which wouldhelp women who wanted to make
the leap to go from corporate,to employee to entrepreneur,
right, is to work on theinternal stuff. And I tend to
wonder if women in that space,really recognize the importance
(34:57):
of that, that they really knowthat That's what they had to do.
I don't know, if we just have tofind out for ourselves, and we
have to fall and get back up.
And then we can look back andgo, You know what she was?
Right? Yeah, that's what I needto do. But that's hard.
Jamie Stephens (35:14):
Because it's, you know, words don't teach. But
you know, as far as like thelessons that we really
internalize, or that we have to,I think that once you realize
some things are like the waythings work, that you can apply
that to other areas, and thenyou can learn the lessons from
those words, but until you have,like that crisis falling down
(35:37):
flat on the face, you know, allof those moments, I think, some
of these lessons, you just haveto go through them.
Unknown (35:45):
Yeah, you know, I think maybe one of the first
attraction messages that we gotoward is the the money part. In
Play. We're like, Okay, I know,I want to make a switch. I know,
I don't like this anymore. Thiscoach promises that she can help
me earn X amount of money. Andso I'm gonna do this, she's got
(36:08):
a system, I'm just gonna buyinto the system, it's plug and
play. I mean, I bought into anumber of those myself, yeah,
I'm going to save time, I'm justgoing to make that leap. And
immediately, I'm going to justuse the system, and I'm gonna
start with the money. Alright,so this is this kind of constant
messaging and myself buying intodollars, dozens of these
(36:32):
programs over the past fouryears, as I've been a coach, I
finally came to terms with thereality that, yes, it is, your
success financially will dependon your personal development
journey, and how much and thecapacity that you have to
(36:56):
embrace this. But even if ittakes a while for you to make
your first $5, I say celebratethat first $5, because you're
better off than many who have ahard time making any money at
all, because the majority of uscannot make money in the
coaching realm. When we firststart off, there's all kinds of
(37:18):
things to consider. What modelare you going to choose? Are you
going to do one to one coaching?
And do you feel confident enoughis a one to one coach, and how
do you properly coach you know,there's, there's just a whole
lot of untangling, we need tofor example, I'm the oldest of
five kids, I've always had amore of a light fire on your
butt, kind of a mothering and aparenting, Nellie, well, that
(37:42):
doesn't go over as well, in thecoaching realm. Okay, he kind of
let people figure things out forthemselves. Yeah. So if you're
just spoon feeding or if you'relighting fire, and they're
feeling bad about themselves,you're not going to get rehired?
Jamie Stephens (37:59):
Yeah, well, also, that just puts all of the
work on you, right? Part of itis just learning to light your
own fire learning to you know,do the things that get you
motivated, because they'redifferent for everybody. So
yeah, I mean, like, you don'twant to just create those same
(38:20):
situations for people and likeunderstanding how your role in
plays out in that. And like thethings that you have to learn
for yourself. There's just somany layers upon layers of like
things to unpack
Unknown (38:33):
layers upon layers. So as I have evolved in the
coaching realm, and by far, I'mnot financially where I would
like to be, but, you know, weall need to have a vision. And
it has to be strong enough forus to keep dealing with the
stumbling blocks. And that Ifind the stumbling blocks is the
(38:57):
end people in the space ofstumbling. That's the space I
want to work with, with women,because I've been there. I know
a lot of those stumbling blocks.
I'm not yet your six figurecoach who's going to be going
yeah, I might get you sixfigures. But I bought into a lot
of six figure coach programs.
(39:17):
They worked with me during mystumbling blocks, right? If I
couldn't keep up, they mighteven lead me to believe that I
had mindset problems. And sothey kind of abandoned me so
that I fall back.
Jamie Stephens (39:32):
I think we're both familiar with that coach
you're talking about?
Unknown (39:35):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jamie Stephens (39:37):
I mean, it's, you know, different strokes for
different folks, I suppose. But
Unknown (39:41):
yeah. So so they're I love to work with women who are
in this space. So I work bothwith women and again, we spoke
earlier, I did do a bit of oneto one coaching with a few men.
And I kind of enjoyed thatbecause they came to me with
relation Ship issues. So I gotto kind of be the voice of the
(40:04):
woman. And of course, I didn'ttell them what to think. But I
knew enough that there were bothsides and story. And I gotta
give a guy credit, if he'sstepping up to ask for help.
Yeah, so for sure how it didbad, but I am meeting right now
with women because I didn'treally work a lot with women in
(40:25):
my past, I didn't have sisters Iworked in a male dominated field
gets kind of cathartic for me toalso surround myself with more
feminine energy and balance offand that's part of my journey is
cultivating more of myfemininity and my feminine
energy, and then the nurturingand the beauty and just the the
(40:49):
sisterhood. Yeah, so I'm lovingthat space. And that's why now I
specialize in coaching women,particularly those who,
typically they're in midlife,because that's usually where we
have our Inner Awakenings.
Right. And I want to helpnavigate you through the
uncertainty of where you'regoing by specially love working
(41:11):
in a space with women who'vemade the decision that they want
more from this outs, they wantto tap into their fullest
potential, which means thatthey're going to either start up
that new business, they're goingto make a major shift. They're
ready to deal with the stumblingblocks. And I want to be there
(41:33):
for you with what else aformula.
Jamie Stephens (41:40):
Yeah, exactly.
All right. Well, Jen, do youwant to tell people where they
can find you find more aboutyour programs, your sisterhood,
all of those things?
Unknown (41:51):
Thank you. Well, I'm most of what I do, I've
consolidated onto my website atJenn silbert.com. And that will
let you know my major pathwaysof connection to work together
with you would be either one toone coaching, which I love to
(42:11):
do, but I'm actually enjoyingmoving more into in group
coaching now where I can workwith a specific group of women
on specific issues. Because whatI love community, yeah. And so I
created the Met for more successcommunity or just a birthing
that. And we have a system, wework on a theme every single
(42:33):
month of a different success,pillar, confidence and purpose
and boys and self care andcourage. And that's something
that's bringing me joy rightnow. And then the other is
something I'm about to launch atthe end of August, which is my
woman speak heart and soul ofpublic speaking program. Those
(42:54):
are women. So this is for womenwho really want to learn how to
cultivate their, their strongestvoice, and learn how to overcome
the fear of sharing it, andstepping into a confident self,
public speaking, whether it'sjust in a small crowd, whether
(43:14):
it's on stages, but it's atransformational program to get
you comfortable with speaking infront of other people. So, so
excited to launch that I
Jamie Stephens (43:24):
love that you're gonna put all your Shakespearean
skills into effect.
Unknown (43:31):
It's definitely a system. It's specifically geared
toward women, the founder ofthis program has been training a
lot of women who go on to do TEDtalks, and she was a speaker in
front of the United Nationsspeaking specifically for women.
But you think about that,looking at our history, we've
worked in a male dominated fieldand just not really learned how
(43:54):
to cultivate a more feminineway, is sharing our message. So
we can be impactful and not feelafraid of the showing up as the
manly self. It's feeling inalignment with your feminine
energy. So that's also on mywebsite. So link to that is, is
(44:14):
there as well.
Jamie Stephens (44:15):
Awesome. And I will put all of that in the show
notes as well. So thank you somuch, Jen.
Unknown (44:21):
Thank you, Jamie. I wish you all the luck too. Thank
you so much for producing such agreat podcast. You know,
speaking of voice, thank you somuch for having a platform for
women to share their voice.
You're doing a job.
Jamie Stephens (44:33):
Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thanks to Jan
for being on the show. It wasfun to hear some of the stories
that have shaped the woman Iknow today. It also offers us an
opportunity to reflect on someof the ways our journey has
shaped us. There's always justso many layers when we're ready
to look and it's part of thereason I love this work so much.
(44:54):
So some of the key takeawaysfrom this episode are number one
celebrate we He gets so busyalways thinking about what's
next that we forget to pause andcelebrate how far we've come.
Challenge yourself to celebratethe wins, big and small. Number
two, notice your conditioning.
As a woman in corporate, you canend up making reflexive micro
adjustments to your authenticself without even noticing.
(45:18):
Whether it's the change in yourvoice, your choice of clothing,
or the way he respond inmeetings, it's important to look
at these things with curiosity.
Number three, f all the labels,you will always be too much for
some people and not enough forothers. So here's your
permission slip to be 100% youand let people have their
(45:40):
opinions, people are going tothink and believe what they
want. And that is just fine.
Number four, just show up and dothe best you can. As long as
you're living life with thatkind of integrity, you can
disregard the people that arethere to just try to undermine
you and bring you down. Thingsmay not go exactly how you'd
like them to, but you'll knowthat you've done your best.
Number five, know your worth.
(46:03):
And don't underestimateyourself. This is about more
than money. How are you beingtreated in your work and other
relationships? Is it worth it?
Knowing your worth andrecognizing where there's an
imbalance can lead to a bigchange. Number six, there's more
to life than your job. There'slife to live places to see and
so much more to who you are thanyour career. Kudos to those that
(46:24):
can learn to step off thehamster wheel and start living
intentionally without a crisis.
But unfortunately, that'susually what it takes for people
to wake up to what they reallywant. Number seven, upstream or
downstream. When you're paddlingupstream, fighting against your
nature, it takes a lot ofenergy. What happens if you
(46:45):
reevaluate and make changes thatallow you to live in the
downstream effortless flow moreof the time. Number eight, give
yourself a gap year, if you cantake some time to figure out
what you like to do. If you wereto drop the ego and perceived
expectations, what would youwant to do or explore it takes
time to reconnect with yourselfand figure this stuff out?
(47:08):
Number nine different coach fordifferent folks. There are all
kinds of mentors and coaches outthere. Remember that you get to
seek out the kind of coach thatworks for you and your needs.
Okay, thank you friend. That isit for this week. Thanks to Jen
for joining me on the show andsharing her wisdom drops with
us. You can find all the linksin the show notes. And if you're
(47:29):
feeling like a rock star, goahead and send this episode to a
friend or leave a review so morewomen can find this show. Until
next time find me on Instagramat Jamie Renee
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