February 26, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode of Persistence in Prayer, host Kylie Hein is joined by Margaret Schay, a devoted daughter of God, wife, and mother, who integrates the rich teachings of Catholic psychology into her coaching work.
Margaret shares her journey from experiencing depression in college as she found herself striving, to discovering the transformative power of therapy and personal growth, drawing from John Paul II's Theology of the Body. She emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and understanding the different parts of ourselves, particularly our striving and achiever parts, to cultivate a holistic and peaceful interior life.
The conversation delves into the concept of "parts work," a psychological approach that resonates with Catholic anthropology, encouraging listeners to embrace and integrate all aspects of their personalities for a more fulfilled and spiritually aligned life. The episode concludes with a reflective discussion on Psalm 34, highlighting the importance of feeling our emotions and trusting in God's presence during our suffering.
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Connect with Margaret
- On IG @margaretschay
- Coaching and Free Downloads HERE - Get 30% off all coaching packages booked by March 31st, 2025.
Connect with Kylie
- Book a free Confidence and Clarity Call HERE or email info@kyliemhein.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Samson Q2U Microphone (00:01):
Do you struggle with being content?
Do you often find yourselfstriving for more?
Chasing achievement, yet neverfeeling truly at peace?
If so, you're not alone.
In this episode, we are going totalk a little bit about
psychology and how through theconcept of parts work, an
(00:23):
approach that aligns beautifullywith our Catholic teaching, we
can recognize and integratethese beautiful, striving,
achieving parts of ourselves.
And learn to love them in apeaceful, spiritually grounded
way that draws us closer to theLord rather than leaving us in
shame and discontentment.
(00:45):
So with that, grab your favoritedrink, cozy up, and let's dive
in.
Hello, beautiful souls, andwelcome to the Persistence in
Prayer podcast hosted byCatholic Mindset coach, wife,
mother, educator, and speaker,Kylie Hine.
Kylie is passionate abouthelping you deepen your
relationship with God throughthe power of prayer.
(01:07):
This podcast is a space for highachievers who want to do it all,
but also want to prioritizetheir spiritual life and grow in
faith.
Join us as we explore the beautyof persistence in prayer and the
transformative impact it canhave on our lives.
Get ready to discover practicaltips, insights, and inspiration
to help you develop a dailyprayer practice and cultivate a
(01:30):
deeper sense of trust in God'splan for your life.
Let's journey together towards amore fulfilled and faithful life
as we invite the Holy Spirit in.
Let's begin.
Hello, everyone, and welcomeback to another episode of
Persistence in Prayer.
Today, I am joined by a dearfriend, Margaret Shea.
(01:51):
She is a beloved daughter ofGod, wife and mother to three
children on earth and four inheaven.
During college, she discoveredthe transformative beauty of
Catholic psychology, sparking alifelong journey to integrate
her heart, mind, body, and soul.
With extensive education in JohnPaul II's Theology of the Body,
Margaret incorporates its richteachings into all of her work.
(02:12):
She is the executive director.
For right to life in Louisville,where the mission is to build a
community that values women forwho they are, helping women to
thrive and embrace their uniquepotential while being supported
and choosing life for unbornchildren.
Margaret is passionate about allthings, French food and
fellowship.
She delights in sharing herstory and knowledge, walking
(02:34):
alongside others in theirjourney toward greater interior
peace and a flourishing humanformation.
Margaret, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be on.
Yes.
We've had some awesomeconversation leading into this
off air.
And so I'm excited to see whatthe Holy Spirit is going to
guide today for all of ourawesome listeners.
(02:56):
And.
Margaret, I skipped over part ofyour bio intentionally because I
really just want to hear it fromyou.
Will you tell everyone yourpersonal journey to coaching?
Kind of what were you lookingfor and what did you find?
Well, I love this questionbecause, since I was really
young, I had this kind of partof me that just wanted to,
(03:19):
develop and Do better.
And, and it was always just thiskind of constant striving.
And so, when I was in college, Iwas experiencing very acute
depression.
And, I don't think I even knew.
Knew that exactly.
I don't think I would havecalled it that I wasn't
knowledgeable enough.
(03:39):
I certainly knew that I wasstruggling.
And so anyway, I reached out forhelp and providentially in the
most amazing way that only Godcan orchestrate.
I was connected with aphenomenal Catholic, therapist
in, in the area where I was inschool.
And she really helped me overthe course of two years.
And I really started to, in mywords, how I put it was kind of
(04:02):
untangle my thoughts.
I had a lot of, beliefs and,difficulties that I had kind of
internalized and Those thingswere really weighing me down.
And so, so that kind of likeopened this door.
And I remember when I finishedthat therapy and thinking like,
I'm done.
I'm great.
(04:23):
Life's good.
I'm good for it.
I'm good.
Like I'm done.
I've done this.
Well, fast forward, marriage andkids and moves and job losses
and financial stress, and then,uh, miscarriages.
I ended up, realizing, okay,wait a second, this is ongoing.
This is ongoing.
(04:43):
This is not a one and done.
So I went back to therapy and,then over the years I've gone in
and out as needed to kind oftreating it really like physical
therapy.
Right.
So we, you know, hurt our kneeand we go and we get that
better.
And then maybe we trip again orhave a, something goes out
again.
And so we need to strengthenthat muscle again.
(05:03):
So I've really developed thisrelationship with therapy and
personal growth and personaldevelopment.
over the years where I've justmade the growth a constant and
then, I used therapy as needed.
And so that eventually led meto, Metanoia Catholic, their
podcast.
I started listening to them.
I really enjoyed their work.
(05:24):
And I'd always wanted to becomea therapist.
I never have yet.
That's still on my to do listwhen my kids are grown.
Cause it's quite a.
Quite a time investment.
But I thought, okay, well, look,I could do this coach
certification.
That would be really phenomenal.
So I started looking into thatand I had a phenomenal
opportunity to do that.
And, I got that certification.
(05:45):
I finished that in October of2023.
And, through there I wasintroduced to other modalities,
other ways of working with yourHealing and emotions, ways that
I hadn't experienced intraditional therapy.
And that just really had a hugeimpact on me and I found success
(06:06):
and results in things that I hadstruggled with on and off for
17, 16 years, uh, aware that Iwas struggling with.
I should say that, that, youknow, a lot of these things
predated even when I begantherapy, but just a lot of the
relationship I had with.
With myself and how I wouldhandle my emotions and, look at
(06:27):
myself and then how that wouldimpact my relationship with
others.
I want to just draw attention toa couple things.
First of all, you said you wereconstantly striving and you
always had this part of you thatfelt the need.
Yes.
And I think that so many of usrelate to this, especially the
women who listen to thispodcast.
(06:49):
It's like, there's this holethat we're trying to fill, and
we think that we're going tofill it by doing more, and doing
it better than is probablyfeasible or realistic,
especially because we're takingon, at least in my case, I was
taking on all of the things, notjust one thing that I wanted to
(07:11):
do better, but all of thethings.
And just like you said, theconstant striving, and it leads
to this very Muddled anddistorted relationship with
ourselves and that relationshipwith ourselves obviously affects
relationships with other peopleand it therefore also affects
(07:37):
our relationship with Godbecause our lens of God is
distorted through our lens ofourself and the relationships
that we have with other peopleand so I just wanted to
highlight that for a minutebecause I think that that's so
important and That is one of thebiggest transformations that I
see with coaching when peoplecome to work with me, and I'm
(07:59):
sure you see this when womenwork with you as well, is as
their relationship with theirself changes, they see
tremendous gains in therelationships with their
children and with their spousesor their co workers.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
They stop reacting from a placeof having to prove and having to
(08:24):
earn, and achieve so much.
And it's more, from a holisticintegrated place of peace.
But I think it's reallyimportant here to acknowledge
that those.
Those of us who have those partswithin us, maybe like a
developer part or restorativepart.
(08:46):
I'm using kind of Gallupstrengths language here.
We could use any kind of termthat comes to mind.
Your achiever part, you know,whatever you call that, that
really strong striving part.
That's good.
Like that's a, that's a really.
valid, beautiful part of you.
And, I will never forgetChristmas day 2018.
(09:11):
We just lost our second child tomiscarriage.
In November and I was stillgrieving significantly from this
loss.
It was our son Ben and he wasabout 17 weeks along so it was
very traumatic.
Um, very shocking not expectedat all very traumatic birth and
I remember we had some familymembers over for Christmas
(09:31):
dinner And we had a very lovelytime and We had like these
little fun questions at ourseats or something.
And there was some questionabout, goals And one of my
family members commented, um,something to the effect of like.
She was, like, really content,like, she didn't feel this,
constant urge to keep doingbetter, she had values and
(09:53):
everything that she wouldpursue, but she, she
experienced, a lot ofcontentment.
And I just remember sittingthere and thinking, what is she
talking about?
Like, what, what?
There are people, there arepeople who, who have that?
Like, people that I know?
What is this?
What is she talking about?
And I really wrestled with that.
And it made, obviously it made ahuge impression.
(10:14):
I still remember it.
And I remember after they leftand I was literally sitting
there by myself thinking, whatis that?
and I should be like that.
And I, I should be content likethat.
And I shouldn't have thisdriving.
And I was so harsh on myself andfast forward several years.
And I look back and I go, Oh,okay.
(10:36):
That was actually okay.
I had the striving driving partof me.
I still do.
Right?
And, and there's a reason forthat.
There's a gift in that.
And if I can relate to thatpart, instead of judge that part
or compare that and that familyrelative could have, you know,
obviously different.
different aspects of herpersonality or parts, however
(10:57):
you want to call it, that sherelates to, right?
And so I just thought, wait asecond.
We're so, we're so quick tojudge ourselves.
We're so quick to compareourselves.
We're so quick to say, I knowI'm a high achieving, striving
person.
I shouldn't be.
And actually what if we said, Iknow I'm a high achieving,
(11:18):
striving person.
Hey, let me look inside.
Let me learn about that.
What is that part trying to tellme?
What is the value here?
And, how do we bring these kindof aspects of our personality or
parts within us?
How do we kind of bring thesetogether?
And instead of pushing themaway, instead of trying to do
(11:40):
some habit formation around themor mindset trick around them,
how do we say like, Hey, littleachieving part.
What are you, what are we, whatare you looking for?
What's going on?
What are you afraid will happenif, if we don't achieve?
I think that's a really goodquestion.
What am I afraid is going tohappen if I don't strive?
(12:01):
And then we can kind of listenand, and tune in.
And when we get that feedback,when we relate to ourselves in
that way, it's just completelydifferent and much more
effective because I'm going totell you.
Until I started getting intoparts work, which is what I've
been referencing, it really wasjust kind of pushing through,
white knuckling, I gotta be likethat family member.
(12:22):
This Achiever in me is bad, youknow, I'm not content, that's
wrong, so.
I am so glad that you sharedthat story because I had a
similar journey.
I remember taking theStrengthsFinder test, and number
one was Achiever, and at thesame time I was going through
Spiritual Direction, and mySpiritual Director was just
constantly highlighting, you arenot a human doing, you are a
(12:45):
human being.
The Lord wants you to just Learnhow to be and that is a
beautiful thing, but then Istarted thinking, how do I turn
off this Achiever part becauseit is stressing me out.
I am stressed and overwhelmedbecause I go from this high,
high point where I feel like Ican do everything in the world
to this low, low crash where I'mlike, there's so much going on
(13:09):
and I'm so stressed and I'm notsleeping because I can't go to
sleep until I finish everything.
And then so several years downthe road, I was like, man, I've
made so much growth with theLord.
I took that StrengthsFinderagain at a different job and you
know what, Achiever came upagain as my number one and I was
so mad because I thought, ah, Ithought I learned how to like
(13:32):
temper that and turn it off.
And I was still struggling withjust seeing this as a beautiful
gift that the Lord had given me.
And instead of looking at itthrough the lens of, you know,
we have these beautiful saints.
Some of them definitely hadAchiever parts or Developer
parts or Restorative parts likeyou talked about.
Right.
That is what helps them tobecome Saints, that resilience
(13:56):
and perseverance and wanting toalways be better.
But of course there has to be abalance, and so I'm really
excited about this conversation.
We talked about, again, lovingthese get it all done parts that
we have within us.
Can you just break down for us,when we're talking about parts,
(14:17):
What is parts work?
What does that mean for anyonewho doesn't know?
Yeah, I think it's really,really simple.
It's, you know, when I, when I'mgoing, to some of the doctor
appointments I'll go to, I willpass by this.
delicious ice cream store that Ilove.
And I don't know how you feelabout like purchasing ice cream.
(14:39):
Some people are really stronglyopinionated on this, like that
that is like such a luxury to goout and just, you know, spend 10
on an ice cream cone.
I don't do it a lot, but I haveto say it's like one of my
favorite treats.
And I guarantee you every time Idrive past there, there is a
part of me that says, Ooh, Iwonder.
If I should stop.
(14:59):
Oh, I wonder like, uh, thatwould be so good.
Oh, do I have time?
Can I do this?
Like how many points do I havein my ice cream app and then I'm
like, okay, well I can, or Ican't, you know, I should, or I
shouldn't, I got to go.
I don't have to go, you know, Ihave this appointment or do it
on my way home.
I won't do it.
And so we have these.
Experiences in our day to daylife, whether it's with ice
cream or getting out of bed orwhat task to do first, I mean,
(15:23):
whatever it is, there's a partof us that wants to do something
or is interested or intrigued.
And then there's another part ofus that's like, maybe not.
Maybe we shouldn't.
How much money do we have in ourbank account?
What is our time schedule?
Right?
So we experience this all thetime, all the time.
Every single one of us does.
And really what parts work is,is it saying, okay, we have
(15:46):
these kind of elements, we couldcall them, sub personalities.
I mean, there's different wordswe can use.
And we're not saying apersonality disorder.
I always have to give thatdisclosure.
We're not saying that, but wehave these kinds of parts within
us that make up our wholeperson.
Make up the parts of ourpersonality.
And, These parts have their ownkind of desires and goals, and
(16:10):
they always mean well for us.
They're always trying to helpus, protect us and guide us.
And then we have our inmostself.
Now, our inmost self is not apart.
Our inmost self is the child ofGod within, the image of God.
So God saw all that he had made,and he saw that it was good,
right?
(16:31):
And so, I mean, this is like, tome, very theology of the body.
Very, based in, of course, ourchurch's teachings on the person
made in the image and likenessof God, so we have our inmost
self, which is this, perfect,truly perfect image of God
within us, right?
(16:51):
Not a part.
And the inmost self is supposedto lead and guide that system of
parts.
And if that sounds a littlecrazy, I think one of the
easiest way to explain this, isjust to think about the Trinity.
We know that the Trinity is aneternal exchange of love, where
(17:12):
you have the love.
Between God, the Father and God,the Son is the Holy Spirit.
And there's this eternal givingand receiving of love.
And so if we believe, as we do,that we are made in God's image
and likeness, and God saw allthat he had made and he saw that
it was good, it makes sense thatthe person would also have an
(17:35):
eternal, internal relationshipwithin.
That we would not be amonolithic whole.
If we're made in God's image andlikeness, And God isn't a
monolithic whole, right?
He's a union of persons.
Then we too would reflect thatin some way.
And so the verse we always lookto for this is, when Jesus says
(17:59):
the greatest commandment is tolove the Lord your God with all
your heart, with all your soul,and to love your neighbor as
yourself.
To love your neighbor asyourself.
So from there, we gather that weare to love ourself.
Now, if I'm supposed to lovemyself, Again, I can't be a
(18:23):
monolithic whole love requires agiver and a receiver, right?
Just like in the Trinity, therehas to be a giver and there has
to be a receiver.
You can't have, you know, a rockcan't love itself.
So we have to have this abilityto love.
And so, so who, who is the loverwho loves, right?
So our inmost self is that,image of God within us.
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That has been given to everysingle one of us, every single
one of us made in his image andlikeness, the human person,
every single one of us has aninmost self.
This doesn't come at baptism.
The inmost self is part of ourhumanity being made in his image
and likeness.
And so that inmost self gets toknow those parts, gets to love
(19:12):
those parts, gets to see, hearand affirm those parts.
And then those parts Kind oflook to the inmost self as like
the Good Shepherd who then leadsthem to the Father and the Son
and the Holy Spirit.
It's very much a reflection, amirroring of Jesus and his work
(19:33):
here, right?
So he gives us this inmost selfto guide us.
And the goal is that we listento those parts that sometimes
misbehave.
Sometimes our parts, we can sendthrough our parts, we can have
parts that act out like crazyteenagers or toddlers or all
kinds of different things.
It's, it's not any excuse for asin or something.
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So we have these parts that aregood and they mean well, but
just like any teenager ortoddler or adult, they can
misbehave.
And we might have, a reallyinsecure part.
Um, who is.
Really doubting themselves andin that doubt, they are
impatient and react orsomething, right?
We hurt somebody and we'reunkind.
And so the goal would be thento, for the inmo self, to talk
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to that part, to lead that part,to ask what's going on, and to
help understand and guide themjust like a parent would with
their child.
Does that make sense?
Or does that seem a little No,the inmost self reminds me of
the inner dwelling of theTrinity that St.
Elizabeth of the Trinity talksabout.
It's like this inner chamber,this inner cell where the Lord
(20:38):
resides, right?
And that is the image.
That's what you're talkingabout.
So different saints usedifferent words to describe
that.
But again, theology of the body,we are made in the image of God.
And I just want to highlightlove of self because if you read
Particular writings.
There's a lot of talk about thecrucifixion of the self, the
(21:02):
dying of self, self love is theroot of all evil, right?
There's all of these things, butwe're talking about a proper
love of self.
And that is different than alove of our fleshly desires and
passions, right?
It's a loving of, like you saidthat in most self, of the
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Trinity that is within us.
Is that worded correctly?
Yeah.
I mean, people do get a littleuncomfortable with this,
especially Catholics.
I think we go, wait a second.
What are we saying?
Self love?
What?
And I think we could just besuper practical and just ask
ourselves this.
Can you think of a time whereyou were, where you were
corrected in a harsh, shamefulor critical way and you felt
(21:48):
terrible and you tried to dobetter, but you felt so
discouraged you didn't really dobetter.
And it was just really awkwardand uncomfortable and painful.
And then can you think of a timewhere somebody really genuinely
loved you and saw you in yourpain and suffering?
Maybe held you in your sin.
Maybe you were talking aboutsomething you've done that you
(22:10):
felt really bad about and youjust received so much mercy,
that you were inspired to dobetter.
Right?
We've all had that experience inour life where we've been shamed
and felt worse about somethingwe've done or struggled with or
we've been Affirmed and valuedand given mercy and we've been
transformed and that's reallywhat we're talking about here
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that that that Relationship withthe parts that love of self is
the parts of Having what wewould call in the psychology
world, a secure attachment tothe self in the same way that a
child needs a secure attachmentwith their parents, our little
parts need a secure attachmentto our inmost self.
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So that's what we mean by inmostby loving the inmost self.
And then, of course, I can'tgive what I don't have.
So if I don't love myself, ifI'm always going back to that
example of shaming and beratingand criticizing, if I'm always
shaming, berating, andcriticizing my parts or myself,
or, you know, beating myself upinside, well, that's going to
come out, it's going to come outof my parenting.
(23:17):
It's going to come out in myworking relationships and my
marriage and my prayer and how Irelate to God.
So it all, I think it just kindof resonates with the human
experience.
Yes.
Yes.
This.
Foundational piece of lovingourselves as the Lord loves us,
like not hiding, right?
(23:37):
Because in shame, we hide theday we're recording on
Valentine's Day and thatscripture today at mass was of
the fall.
So this is perfect, right?
But not hiding, not hiding inshame, but seeing who we are
right now, all of theseimperfect pieces, these
unfinished parts.
(24:00):
That maybe just haven't growninto the fullness and the
perfection of what they will oneday become and first and
foremost is the attachment thatin most self are attachment to
the Lord versus attachment toother things.
Yeah, and that we reallyactually, and this is where you
(24:21):
know, some listeners might go,Kylie, did you vet her?
We really have to love ourselffirst.
That's actually not.
A false teaching.
Okay.
So if we do understand that ourself is actually the indwelling
of the Holy Spirit within us,then we actually have to love
(24:43):
ourselves first and then we loveGod and then we love others.
And this is really, something weget very, very uncomfortable
with, very uncomfortable with,but it is grounded in our
churches teachings in ourunderstanding of.
(25:04):
Our call to sanctity and tounification with the Lord.
And we look at Aquinas and hesays, grace builds on nature.
And so that, that experience ofthe inmost self, which is again,
let me very, very clear here.
The inmost self is not a minordeity.
We're not saying we're littlegods.
I think this is where internalfamily systems can take it too
(25:25):
far.
They can, they can go a little,um.
different kind of eastern spiritreligion kind of approach.
We do not at all subscribe tothat.
So we can take the best frominternal family systems, which
is the parts work founded by DrRichard Schwartz.
We can take the best from thereand put that through our
(25:47):
catholic anthropology and lensand then, discard what is not
relevant, what is not helpful.
And so, IFS might say that we dobecome like little gods, right?
But of course we would not saythat at all, but we'd say the
Lord is within us, just like yousaid, Elizabeth of the Trinity.
So, and Teresa of Avila writesabout this, um, Teresa Blaseur,
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I mean, not in the same wordswe're using today, but this
whole concept of being thatlittle child and Loving the Lord
who's within us loving lovingthe indwelling of the Holy
Spirit in us.
That really is our foundation.
And then from there, we get tolove our father and our heavenly
mother and others, right?
(26:28):
Um, but that love of.
Self, the indwelling of the HolySpirit, the inmost self is
actually the foundation.
I'm so glad that you broughtsome of this up because one, I
think that we can't grow withoutbeing uncomfortable.
And so when we feel resistance.
to things even within our ownfaith.
(26:51):
For some of us, our naturalinclination is to just run away
from it, to ignore it, or toautomatically discredit it.
And so I think just allowingourselves, and this can happen
with everyday occurrences too,right?
Like when we are uncomfortable,it's hard to sometimes just sit
with the Lord.
We want to distract ourselvesfrom it.
So just allowing ourselves tosit in the discomfort and ask
(27:11):
the Lord to reveal to us what istrue.
And I'm so grateful that youbrought up Whenever we are
looking at psychology or justreally anything in the world to
just pray to be awake, St.
Ignatius always talks aboutthis, be awake, be aware.
So just be aware, you justmentioned internal family
systems sometimes can, can gotoo far, but there are really,
(27:34):
really great and incredibleCatholic psychologists who Oh
yes, phenomenal.
Can again, root this back insome of the teachings of the
saints, they can root it back inscripture.
They can bring the fullness ofour Catholic faith together to
give us a really beautiful humanformation.
(27:54):
And God is the ultimate healer.
But we can also approach thingsfrom different aspects to help
us find that full healing.
Yes, yes, definitely.
And we have such a richtradition in the church of doing
this.
I mean, Augustine referencedPlato a lot, and Aquinas
referenced Aristotle a lot,right?
(28:17):
So these are both You know,pagan philosophers who predated
Christ, but we take, we take thetruth from what we have,
wherever it comes from, and thendiscard the parts that aren't
true or aren't relevant oraren't, conducive to our faith.
Absolutely.
Okay.
So can you give our audiencesome tangible takeaways of
(28:41):
Recognizing these parts that wehave and how can we learn to
love them and help them worktogether?
Yeah, I think it's, it really isfirst just, it's that, it's that
awareness.
And we kind of experience thatawareness in the resistance you
mentioned.
We'll feel uncomfortable withsomething.
(29:02):
I mean, this could be, I walkinto my kitchen and, it's a
mess.
You know, somebody hasn'tfinished their job or somebody
left their, shoes in thedoorway.
Or a, a coworker didn't respondpromptly or politely to an
email, whatever it is, whetherit's at work at home and church
(29:23):
in our prayer life, when weexperience some type of internal
frustration or reaction, we cankind of look at that, as a part
and just kind of turn inwardjust acknowledge that.
Just acknowledge that.
And again, when we go back toour own human experience, we all
know that those moments in ourlife where we've just been
(29:45):
acknowledged in our suffering,not dismissed, not given some
little happy quote, but justacknowledge like that hurts.
Hey, I see you in new pain,right?
That just really calms, calms,um, the part down, calms
ourselves down and helps tobegin that relationship.
(30:08):
The first thing is awareness,acknowledgement of the part
there that's, that's probablyspeaking up that you're
experiencing in that tension orfrustration of some level.
So much of this is, again, justtaking me to St.
Ignatius of Loyola, be aware,understand, and take action is
what he always says, and I'mgoing to have to do some
(30:31):
research because I'm fascinatedto hear how the parts work kind
of meshes with movements of thespirits, good spirits and bad
spirits.
I think that's beyond the scopeof this podcast, but that's
where my mind is going.
But I'm just hearing you sayingwe need to feel our feelings.
And just recognize that they arehappening, not trying to
suppress them and shove themdown.
(30:53):
That image that I think is useda lot in psychology is like the
beach ball in the water, wherewe're trying to push it down and
we push it under the water, butwe know, the harder we push it
down, it's gonna explode back upin our face.
Right.
You just have to, to feel whatwe are feeling.
Recognize it.
It doesn't mean we have to takea negative action, but feelings
(31:13):
are neutral.
Yeah, and it's excruciatinglypainful.
Let's just be really honest withthe human condition here.
It is so so So painful.
You know, we think about painand we think of childbirth or
wisdom, teeth removal orsurgeries, whatever, the result
(31:36):
after, running a marathon,whatever we think of those kinds
of things.
But I honestly think, on a dailybasis, the pain of actually
feeling our emotions is sosignificant that most of us tend
to numb those in some form orcapacity.
And I certainly don't say thatto incur shame or, or, uh, guilt
(31:58):
anybody, but to say, you know,when I, I, so I have this, I
have a bit of a fierytemperament and, there's a part
of me that can get, can be, Icall her my, I call it my feisty
protector.
So I can have this kind of partthat can get really upset really
easily.
And the more I just noticed thatpart and just.
(32:21):
allow myself to sit there andfeel the pain.
You know, it's like when you'regetting like a blood draw at the
doctor and you just have to sitthere and breathe through it and
you can't run away.
You can't stop it.
And you know that if you likesit there and grit your teeth,
it's going to feel worse.
You just have to breathe throughit.
And I find that when I just feelthat pain of the uncomfortable,
Emotion that the part that'sacting up and I don't say
(32:44):
anything to take it out onsomebody.
I don't do a cognitive exercise.
I don't ask myself what I'mlearning from this.
I don't do some type of, mentaljujitsu.
It's it's just just be with it.
Don't don't ask yourself whatthe blessing in it is.
(33:07):
Don't do anything.
It's and it's verycounterintuitive.
Because our natural reaction isto make it go away.
If I eat, I'll make it go away.
If I scroll, I'll make it goaway.
If I yell, I'll make it go away.
If I, go for a run, I'll make itgo away.
Some of these things can bereally good things.
(33:28):
You know, if I exercise, I'llmake it go away.
What if we first just sat withit?
Like Jesus with the woman at thewell, he meets her in her sin.
He meets her in her mess.
He meets her in like the heightof her emotional lows, right?
She's built this whole lifearound her sinful lifestyle.
(33:49):
She now goes to the well at theworst time of day, the most
uncomfortable time of day.
And he meets her in that.
He doesn't meet her.
On her way to the well, hedoesn't meet her after the well,
he meets her at the well.
And I think that's a greatmessage to us.
In the moment of our sin, of ourstruggle, of our resistance, of
(34:14):
our emotional pain, we just haveto be there with it.
First.
The self with the parts, right?
We don't even have to worryabout, I want to say this really
carefully.
Our, our life can be a prayer,right?
So we don't even have to like,stop and quote, pray, like just
(34:35):
accompanying our parts ismodeling exactly what the good
shepherd did for us does for us.
Just like Jesus accompanied thewoman at the well and everyone
he accompanied.
So that in most self is like theshepherd for our parts.
Thanks.
Truly is the guide.
(34:57):
And it's so uncomfortable.
We just have to own that.
Because I hate it when I getreally upset when that feisty
protector comes out.
I mean, I will literally,sometimes just be like, I'm just
gonna lay down on the floor justso my body can feel all the
parts of the floor on it.
Not on my bed, on the floor, andjust, just feel it.
That's it.
Just feel it.
Like a blood draw.
(35:17):
That's what I think about allthe time.
Yeah, I love that.
I'm not as familiar with partswork.
I'm Exploring it more, but I'vetalked about the four
temperaments a lot on thispodcast and the choleric quick
reactor in me.
Yes.
It comes out and we talk about alot that this can often come out
as anger or frustration.
(35:39):
Normally for me, it's interiorfrustration, often with myself,
but this quick reactor came outin me the other day because I
made a mistake.
And.
That shouldn't be a big deal,right?
We all make mistakes, weoverlook things, but because it
affected someone else, I justimmediately felt shame and
terrible about myself.
And it was nighttime, and justlike you said, I wanted to avoid
(36:02):
that feeling so badly.
I want to go eat some chocolate,I want to just open up a book on
my phone and read a good book,like, a story to take me out of
what I'm feeling, but Like yousaid, just sitting and feeling,
I was about to pray my nightlyexam and so I sat there, I
didn't do a lot of reflectingfor me, you know, like you said,
(36:26):
we don't necessarily have to usewords, but for me, my simple
prayer was Lord, this is souncomfortable.
Just help me to embrace thediscomfort and that was like,
just sit here and the quicker wecan just sit in it.
Actually, the faster it goesaway, really, it's because it's
that acknowledgement.
Mm hmm.
(36:47):
Because when we try to shove itdown, it just sticks with us.
And it's like it festers andgrows bigger.
Absolutely, it does.
And when we don't acknowledge,those parts, they really do
freak out.
I mean, I think about this allthe time, especially as a
mother.
You know, we all have.
experiences with our children,especially when they're younger
and they want something.
(37:07):
Maybe like they're a toddler andthey're nagging for something.
Maybe we're in the midst ofmaking dinner and we, brush it
aside and go just a minute, justa minute, just a minute, just a
minute.
And then they start freaking outeventually, throwing things, I
don't know, you know, having anaccident in their pants,
whatever happens, right.
They freak out and, and.
That's really what happens withus, you know, so eventually the
parts are just like, wow.
(37:28):
And so, when we attune toanother in the same way, when we
attune to those parts within us,they feel seen and heard and
they calm down and, it, it doeswork and it does make a
difference.
And it is very different thanthat kind of top down approach
of like thought emotion action,I think and then I have a
feeling because of that thoughtand then I act.
(37:50):
That's, that's a very, differentapproach.
This is more kind of tuning inmore to our body, and listening
there and understanding our bodyis this way that God
communicates with us.
John Paul II tells us in thetheology of the body that the
body and it alone is capable ofrevealing the divine.
(38:10):
And the physical, right?
So we know that the Lordcommunicates to us through our
bodies and he himself saved usthrough his body.
He didn't save us.
Through an angel, he didn't saveus through, like, he didn't have
to save us through his son,right?
He could have just saved us bysnapping his fingers.
He could have saved us any wayhe wanted to.
And yet he saved us through, thehumanity and divinity of Jesus
(38:35):
Christ.
And I think that tells us a lotthat how important it is to
integrate our body into ourhealing.
Absolutely.
I love that.
as we get near to wrapping up,how have you found this part's
work has impacted your spirituallife?
That's a really, that is areally interesting question
(38:59):
because it has had a hugeimpact.
I would say that the parts workhas really impacted my spiritual
life and my, my relationshipwith God, especially God, my
father.
It's had a huge impact becauseas I have kind of Attuned to
myself to go into my interiorcastle is Teresa of Avala would
(39:21):
say, and kind of be there andget to know my parts.
I've gotten to see the ways thatsome of my parts within me, you
know, sometimes we use thislanguage of like our inner child
or something like that.
We could say some of our partscarry these burdens, these
fears, these experiences ormemories where They really
(39:43):
struggle with something, maybesomething from our childhood,
something that was reallydifficult and, what I've seen is
that when I have helped my partsattune to my inmost self, to the
indwelling of the Holy Spiritwithin me, and when I've, from
my inmost self, guided them andseen them and loved them and not
(40:08):
shamed them, they have Been ableto see that that is actually the
way my father in heaven lovesme.
We hear all of these thingsgrowing up, especially in our
Sunday school and, Catholicschool, wherever you are about,
you know, Jesus loves you andGod loves you and you're unique
(40:31):
and you're unrepeatable.
And of course, all of that'strue and beautiful, but so often
it's something that's in ourhead and it's not at all in our
heart.
We say that a lot.
And so I think the parts workhas really helped to bring
things that intellectually Ibelieved, but emotionally and
physically I didn't feel orbelieve.
And it's helped to bring thosethings home.
I mean, we, we actually have tohave a felt.
(40:54):
Sense of safety and love.
It is not enough for any one ofus.
This is a fundamental principleof psychology.
It is not enough for any one ofus to simply intellectually know
that I am loved or safe or caredfor.
I have to actually feel that inmy body.
I have to feel that in my body.
(41:15):
This is wiring from God, right?
I have to know that.
I mean, that's, that's why hecame in bodily form.
Very, very tangible.
And so, we have to have thatexperience.
And when we can have thatexperience in our inner system,
that's what we call like therelationship between our self
and our parts.
(41:36):
Then I think that does have ahuge impact on our faith and I
know it has for me and it's beena very gradual journey I've had
my own wounds and feeling ofneglect and, different
experiences and, and things likethat.
And so when my parts have cometo trust my inmost self, they've
also been able to open up totrusting my heavenly father,
(42:00):
which has made a big difference.
That is beautiful.
It's so beautiful to just lookat how the Lord has taken you
from your head into your heart,which is so important.
That's what we talk about in mySpiritual Direction classes.
Our goal is as a director to letthe Holy Spirit lead the
(42:22):
directee from the head into theheart, because the heart is
where the Lord operates.
And we see that over and overagain in Scripture.
So just like you said, manypeople know intellectually or
can believe intellectually, forexample, the Eucharist, that
that is the body, blood, soul,and divinity of God.
(42:43):
But if they have neverexperienced that in their heart,
then They miss that miracle thatoccurs at mass.
It's kind of going through themotions type of thing is how I
think of it.
Oh, absolutely.
And we think about this in allour relationships.
I mean, you can't just, your kidcan't just know you love him.
He has to feel it, right?
(43:05):
And same with your spouse.
And, we can't live life justgoing through the motions.
There has to be a relationalpiece, a felt sense of safety
and love.
It's key.
Absolutely.
I want to highlight a couple ofother things that you said
before we get to our closing.
I love this question that yousaid at the beginning, is asking
ourselves, what is the fear?
(43:25):
What will happen if I don'tachieve?
What will happen if I stopstriving?
And just sit with that question.
Take that to the Lord in prayer.
The significance of allowing ourparts to be seen.
Our inner, if our inner part ishaving a toddler tantrum and
meltdown, just acknowledge that.
(43:47):
And then most importantly, Ithink just sitting in the
discomfort, even when it'spainful, allowing ourselves to
feel our feelings.
Yes.
Yeah.
We have to feel to heal.
We can't go around it, under it,over it, you know, I mean, I
love that book, Going on a BearHunt.
It's a classic children's book,and they have to go through it.
(44:09):
They can't go over it, theycan't go under it.
Oh, that just took me tochildhood memory.
My mom used to do that with usall the time.
Yeah, it's a great book.
Okay, I always end every episodewith a prayer tip or a scripture
verse.
You gave me Psalm 34.
This is a longer one, but I'mgoing to read it because I just
think it is so powerful.
(44:30):
In the very first line, I'm partof the Legion of Mary and It
just takes me back to the partof the prayer we always say,
You, O Lord, will open my mouthand my tongue shall announce
your praise.
And this phrase just goes in myhead all the time, especially
when I feel anxious aboutspeaking, or anything like that.
(44:50):
And it's like, no, the Lord,just let the Lord speak.
And he takes care of it.
So Psalm 34, I will bless theLord at all times.
His praise shall always be in mymouth.
My soul will glory in the Lord.
Let the poor hear and be glad.
Magnify the Lord with me, andlet us exalt his name together.
(45:12):
I sought the Lord, and heanswered me, delivered me from
all my fears.
Look to him and be radiant, andyour faces may not blush for
shame.
This poor one cried out, and theLord heard him, and from all his
distress he saved him.
The angel of the Lord encampsaround those who fear him, and
(45:35):
he saves them.
Taste and see that the Lord isgood.
Blessed is the stalwart one whotakes refuge in him.
Fear the Lord, you his holyones.
Nothing is lacking to those whofear him.
The rich grow poor and gohungry.
But those who seek the Lord lackno good thing.
(45:57):
Come, children, listen to me.
I will teach you to fear theLord.
Who is the man who delights inlife, who loves to see the good
days?
Keep your tongue from evil, yourlips from speaking lies.
Turn from evil and do good.
Seek peace and pursue it.
The eyes of the Lord aredirected toward the righteous
(46:20):
and his ears toward their cry.
The Lord's face is againstevildoers to wipe out their
memory from the earth.
The righteous cry out, the Lordhears, and he rescues them from
all their afflictions.
The Lord is close to thebrokenhearted.
He saves those whose spirit iscrushed.
(46:42):
Many are the troubles of therighteous, but the Lord delivers
him from them all.
He watches over all his bones,not one of them shall be broken.
Evil will slay the wicked, thosewho hate the righteous are
condemned.
The Lord is the redeemer of thesouls of his servants.
And none are condemned who takerefuge in him.
(47:09):
Such a beautiful psalm.
I think I could sit with anyverse from that and just sit
with it.
Like, that's, that's a holy hourright there, just a single
phrase.
Yes.
Yes.
And I just want to reallyquickly acknowledge that that
is, it's a Psalm I love.
It's also a Psalm that greatlychallenges many of my parts
(47:32):
because some of my parts go,wait, what do you mean?
The Lord is close to the brokenhearted, like where was he when
I hurt, when I was suffered.
And so I just want to just sayfor your audience, you know, if
you're reading that or readingany prayer or any Psalm, and
you're, you're wrestling withthat.
That's okay.
So we can just sit with thatpart.
So a lot of times when I praythat song, which is one of my
favorites is I sit with thoseparts that go, okay, where were
(47:57):
you?
Because that is such a validquestion.
You know?
I mean, that's what, that's whatthey asked.
Jesus, when Lazarus died, wherewere you?
And so we have these parts oftenthat ask that and can we sit
with those parts that come up invarious prayers when we talk
about the Lord's goodness and wehave these little parts that go,
what do you mean?
(48:18):
What do you mean he's good?
Look what happened to my family.
That's okay to sit with them andto ask, where were you and to
tell him how you feel about it?
Like, Lord, I don't feel likeyou were there and it makes me
angry or it makes me sad, or hedoes reveal to you where he was
and we might not like it.
Yeah.
We can tell him those things.
It's important to tell him thosethings.
(48:40):
Yes, and even before that, liketo listen to those parts that
tell you, let's first hear whatthe parts have to say, what are
they upset about?
Amen.
And then we can bring that tohim.
Yeah.
This has been so good, Margaret.
I'm so grateful for you to bringin, for bringing this to me
because parts work was somethingI did struggle with a little bit
and I really had to.
(49:01):
Right.
Through it.
Yes.
You had parts that were like,well, I just, I didn't know
enough.
And it was honestly, I did alittle bit of reading and a
little bit of listening and itreally just lifted all of those
resistances that I had to it.
But again, it's just thatpraying to be aware.
And it's not a bad thing to haveresistance.
(49:23):
It's a good thing, right?
It's a good thing in our faithto not just openly accept
anything and everything.
Oh, absolutely.
And we, we do have to be aware.
And I'm so grateful for all ofthe Catholic communities and all
of these men and women who areso diligent in Taking human
(49:44):
formation and these beautifulpractices and going back and
showing how they are rooted inour faith and in the saints and
in scripture.
It's incredible and it'sbeautiful and these are all just
different avenues, I think, toapproach that human formation
that can help lead us from thehead to the heart.
So if this doesn't fit with you,that is okay.
(50:07):
There are other avenues, but Ijust pray that for someone
listening, if this Resonateswith you.
Then go explore more.
Do you have any favoriteresources, Margaret, on Hearts
work?
I, I love the Souls and Heartscommunity.
So Souls and hearts.com, that'sDr.
Peter Malinowski and Jerry Creterun that.
(50:29):
Dr.
Jerry Cree wrote the book,litanies of the Heart, published
by Sophia Institute Press.
That came out in January of.
2024, that's a phenomenalCatholic, approach to parts.
And he has a very helpfulcriticism of, Dr.
Richard Schwartz, his book, nobad parts, um, his book on IFS.
(50:50):
And so Dr.
Jerry kind of takes us through.
Parts work from a Catholicperspective and discarding the
parts of IFS that aren't helpfulor good.
So those are like some of myfavorites.
Of course, there's the InteriorIntegration for Catholics
podcast.
That's Dr.
Peter Malinowski's podcast onparts.
So that's kind of where I hangout a lot.
(51:11):
And then, of course, I work withpeople helping them with parts.
I really integrate that intoeverything that I do in my
coaching.
I coach leadership groups,parishes, staff, and then I do
individual, and I offer bookstudies and things like that.
Always bringing a lot of stuffback through the parts lens.
And Margaret is an excellentcoach.
(51:31):
I've been coached by her.
We went through certificationtogether and also just stayed
connected and we coach eachother from off and on just
training coaching.
I think it's always wonderfuljust to get coached by different
people and let their gifts thatGod has given them shine
through.
We experience different things.
So I'm so grateful for you,Margaret, and for being here and
(51:54):
I still remember last June, Ithink you and I had had a
conversation, and we weretalking about parts work prior
to this, and I went to aspiritual direction, kind of
formation thing, and we had aCatholic therapist there, and I
sat with him at lunch, and I waslike, tell me what you know
about parts work, because I justreally wanted to be open to it,
(52:17):
and I think that kind of Kind ofbroke that, resistance that I
had and brought me, furtheraround.
So I'm excited to continue withit.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
It's been life changing for me.
It really has.
So thank you again.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Beautiful souls, thank you againfor journeying with me.
(52:39):
If you have been blessed by thisepisode, it would mean the world
to me if you would leave areview.
Be sure to screenshot it, shareit on your social media stories,
and don't forget to tag me onInstagram or Facebook at Kylie
M.
Hine.
Stay persistent in prayer,protect your peace, and as
always, share the light ofChrist with everyone around you.
Do you struggle with being content?
Do you often find yourselfstriving for more?
Chasing achievement, yet neverfeeling truly at peace?
If so, you're not alone.
In this episode, we are going totalk a little bit about
psychology and how through theconcept of parts work, an
(00:23):
approach that aligns beautifullywith our Catholic teaching, we
can recognize and integratethese beautiful, striving,
achieving parts of ourselves.
And learn to love them in apeaceful, spiritually grounded
way that draws us closer to theLord rather than leaving us in
shame and discontentment.
(00:45):
So with that, grab your favoritedrink, cozy up, and let's dive
in.
Hello, beautiful souls, andwelcome to the Persistence in
Prayer podcast hosted byCatholic Mindset coach, wife,
mother, educator, and speaker,Kylie Hine.
Kylie is passionate abouthelping you deepen your
relationship with God throughthe power of prayer.
(01:07):
This podcast is a space for highachievers who want to do it all,
but also want to prioritizetheir spiritual life and grow in
faith.
Join us as we explore the beautyof persistence in prayer and the
transformative impact it canhave on our lives.
Get ready to discover practicaltips, insights, and inspiration
to help you develop a dailyprayer practice and cultivate a
(01:30):
deeper sense of trust in God'splan for your life.
Let's journey together towards amore fulfilled and faithful life
as we invite the Holy Spirit in.
Let's begin.
Hello, everyone, and welcomeback to another episode of
Persistence in Prayer.
Today, I am joined by a dearfriend, Margaret Shea.
(01:51):
She is a beloved daughter ofGod, wife and mother to three
children on earth and four inheaven.
During college, she discoveredthe transformative beauty of
Catholic psychology, sparking alifelong journey to integrate
her heart, mind, body, and soul.
With extensive education in JohnPaul II's Theology of the Body,
Margaret incorporates its richteachings into all of her work.
(02:12):
She is the executive director.
For right to life in Louisville,where the mission is to build a
community that values women forwho they are, helping women to
thrive and embrace their uniquepotential while being supported
and choosing life for unbornchildren.
Margaret is passionate about allthings, French food and
fellowship.
She delights in sharing herstory and knowledge, walking
(02:34):
alongside others in theirjourney toward greater interior
peace and a flourishing humanformation.
Margaret, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be on.
Yes.
We've had some awesomeconversation leading into this
off air.
And so I'm excited to see whatthe Holy Spirit is going to
guide today for all of ourawesome listeners.
(02:56):
And.
Margaret, I skipped over part ofyour bio intentionally because I
really just want to hear it fromyou.
Will you tell everyone yourpersonal journey to coaching?
Kind of what were you lookingfor and what did you find?
Well, I love this questionbecause, since I was really
young, I had this kind of partof me that just wanted to,
(03:19):
develop and Do better.
And, and it was always just thiskind of constant striving.
And so, when I was in college, Iwas experiencing very acute
depression.
And, I don't think I even knew.
Knew that exactly.
I don't think I would havecalled it that I wasn't
knowledgeable enough.
(03:39):
I certainly knew that I wasstruggling.
And so anyway, I reached out forhelp and providentially in the
most amazing way that only Godcan orchestrate.
I was connected with aphenomenal Catholic, therapist
in, in the area where I was inschool.
And she really helped me overthe course of two years.
And I really started to, in mywords, how I put it was kind of
(04:02):
untangle my thoughts.
I had a lot of, beliefs and,difficulties that I had kind of
internalized and Those thingswere really weighing me down.
And so, so that kind of likeopened this door.
And I remember when I finishedthat therapy and thinking like,
I'm done.
I'm great.
(04:23):
Life's good.
I'm good for it.
I'm good.
Like I'm done.
I've done this.
Well, fast forward, marriage andkids and moves and job losses
and financial stress, and then,uh, miscarriages.
I ended up, realizing, okay,wait a second, this is ongoing.
This is ongoing.
(04:43):
This is not a one and done.
So I went back to therapy and,then over the years I've gone in
and out as needed to kind oftreating it really like physical
therapy.
Right.
So we, you know, hurt our kneeand we go and we get that
better.
And then maybe we trip again orhave a, something goes out
again.
And so we need to strengthenthat muscle again.
(05:03):
So I've really developed thisrelationship with therapy and
personal growth and personaldevelopment.
over the years where I've justmade the growth a constant and
then, I used therapy as needed.
And so that eventually led meto, Metanoia Catholic, their
podcast.
I started listening to them.
I really enjoyed their work.
(05:24):
And I'd always wanted to becomea therapist.
I never have yet.
That's still on my to do listwhen my kids are grown.
Cause it's quite a.
Quite a time investment.
But I thought, okay, well, look,I could do this coach
certification.
That would be really phenomenal.
So I started looking into thatand I had a phenomenal
opportunity to do that.
And, I got that certification.
(05:45):
I finished that in October of2023.
And, through there I wasintroduced to other modalities,
other ways of working with yourHealing and emotions, ways that
I hadn't experienced intraditional therapy.
And that just really had a hugeimpact on me and I found success
(06:06):
and results in things that I hadstruggled with on and off for
17, 16 years, uh, aware that Iwas struggling with.
I should say that, that, youknow, a lot of these things
predated even when I begantherapy, but just a lot of the
relationship I had with.
With myself and how I wouldhandle my emotions and, look at
(06:27):
myself and then how that wouldimpact my relationship with
others.
I want to just draw attention toa couple things.
First of all, you said you wereconstantly striving and you
always had this part of you thatfelt the need.
Yes.
And I think that so many of usrelate to this, especially the
women who listen to thispodcast.
(06:49):
It's like, there's this holethat we're trying to fill, and
we think that we're going tofill it by doing more, and doing
it better than is probablyfeasible or realistic,
especially because we're takingon, at least in my case, I was
taking on all of the things, notjust one thing that I wanted to
(07:11):
do better, but all of thethings.
And just like you said, theconstant striving, and it leads
to this very Muddled anddistorted relationship with
ourselves and that relationshipwith ourselves obviously affects
relationships with other peopleand it therefore also affects
(07:37):
our relationship with Godbecause our lens of God is
distorted through our lens ofourself and the relationships
that we have with other peopleand so I just wanted to
highlight that for a minutebecause I think that that's so
important and That is one of thebiggest transformations that I
see with coaching when peoplecome to work with me, and I'm
(07:59):
sure you see this when womenwork with you as well, is as
their relationship with theirself changes, they see
tremendous gains in therelationships with their
children and with their spousesor their co workers.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
They stop reacting from a placeof having to prove and having to
(08:24):
earn, and achieve so much.
And it's more, from a holisticintegrated place of peace.
But I think it's reallyimportant here to acknowledge
that those.
Those of us who have those partswithin us, maybe like a
developer part or restorativepart.
(08:46):
I'm using kind of Gallupstrengths language here.
We could use any kind of termthat comes to mind.
Your achiever part, you know,whatever you call that, that
really strong striving part.
That's good.
Like that's a, that's a really.
valid, beautiful part of you.
And, I will never forgetChristmas day 2018.
(09:11):
We just lost our second child tomiscarriage.
In November and I was stillgrieving significantly from this
loss.
It was our son Ben and he wasabout 17 weeks along so it was
very traumatic.
Um, very shocking not expectedat all very traumatic birth and
I remember we had some familymembers over for Christmas
(09:31):
dinner And we had a very lovelytime and We had like these
little fun questions at ourseats or something.
And there was some questionabout, goals And one of my
family members commented, um,something to the effect of like.
She was, like, really content,like, she didn't feel this,
constant urge to keep doingbetter, she had values and
(09:53):
everything that she wouldpursue, but she, she
experienced, a lot ofcontentment.
And I just remember sittingthere and thinking, what is she
talking about?
Like, what, what?
There are people, there arepeople who, who have that?
Like, people that I know?
What is this?
What is she talking about?
And I really wrestled with that.
And it made, obviously it made ahuge impression.
(10:14):
I still remember it.
And I remember after they leftand I was literally sitting
there by myself thinking, whatis that?
and I should be like that.
And I, I should be content likethat.
And I shouldn't have thisdriving.
And I was so harsh on myself andfast forward several years.
And I look back and I go, Oh,okay.
(10:36):
That was actually okay.
I had the striving driving partof me.
I still do.
Right?
And, and there's a reason forthat.
There's a gift in that.
And if I can relate to thatpart, instead of judge that part
or compare that and that familyrelative could have, you know,
obviously different.
different aspects of herpersonality or parts, however
(10:57):
you want to call it, that sherelates to, right?
And so I just thought, wait asecond.
We're so, we're so quick tojudge ourselves.
We're so quick to compareourselves.
We're so quick to say, I knowI'm a high achieving, striving
person.
I shouldn't be.
And actually what if we said, Iknow I'm a high achieving,
(11:18):
striving person.
Hey, let me look inside.
Let me learn about that.
What is that part trying to tellme?
What is the value here?
And, how do we bring these kindof aspects of our personality or
parts within us?
How do we kind of bring thesetogether?
And instead of pushing themaway, instead of trying to do
(11:40):
some habit formation around themor mindset trick around them,
how do we say like, Hey, littleachieving part.
What are you, what are we, whatare you looking for?
What's going on?
What are you afraid will happenif, if we don't achieve?
I think that's a really goodquestion.
What am I afraid is going tohappen if I don't strive?
(12:01):
And then we can kind of listenand, and tune in.
And when we get that feedback,when we relate to ourselves in
that way, it's just completelydifferent and much more
effective because I'm going totell you.
Until I started getting intoparts work, which is what I've
been referencing, it really wasjust kind of pushing through,
white knuckling, I gotta be likethat family member.
(12:22):
This Achiever in me is bad, youknow, I'm not content, that's
wrong, so.
I am so glad that you sharedthat story because I had a
similar journey.
I remember taking theStrengthsFinder test, and number
one was Achiever, and at thesame time I was going through
Spiritual Direction, and mySpiritual Director was just
constantly highlighting, you arenot a human doing, you are a
(12:45):
human being.
The Lord wants you to just Learnhow to be and that is a
beautiful thing, but then Istarted thinking, how do I turn
off this Achiever part becauseit is stressing me out.
I am stressed and overwhelmedbecause I go from this high,
high point where I feel like Ican do everything in the world
to this low, low crash where I'mlike, there's so much going on
(13:09):
and I'm so stressed and I'm notsleeping because I can't go to
sleep until I finish everything.
And then so several years downthe road, I was like, man, I've
made so much growth with theLord.
I took that StrengthsFinderagain at a different job and you
know what, Achiever came upagain as my number one and I was
so mad because I thought, ah, Ithought I learned how to like
(13:32):
temper that and turn it off.
And I was still struggling withjust seeing this as a beautiful
gift that the Lord had given me.
And instead of looking at itthrough the lens of, you know,
we have these beautiful saints.
Some of them definitely hadAchiever parts or Developer
parts or Restorative parts likeyou talked about.
Right.
That is what helps them tobecome Saints, that resilience
(13:56):
and perseverance and wanting toalways be better.
But of course there has to be abalance, and so I'm really
excited about this conversation.
We talked about, again, lovingthese get it all done parts that
we have within us.
Can you just break down for us,when we're talking about parts,
(14:17):
What is parts work?
What does that mean for anyonewho doesn't know?
Yeah, I think it's really,really simple.
It's, you know, when I, when I'mgoing, to some of the doctor
appointments I'll go to, I willpass by this.
delicious ice cream store that Ilove.
And I don't know how you feelabout like purchasing ice cream.
(14:39):
Some people are really stronglyopinionated on this, like that
that is like such a luxury to goout and just, you know, spend 10
on an ice cream cone.
I don't do it a lot, but I haveto say it's like one of my
favorite treats.
And I guarantee you every time Idrive past there, there is a
part of me that says, Ooh, Iwonder.
If I should stop.
(14:59):
Oh, I wonder like, uh, thatwould be so good.
Oh, do I have time?
Can I do this?
Like how many points do I havein my ice cream app and then I'm
like, okay, well I can, or Ican't, you know, I should, or I
shouldn't, I got to go.
I don't have to go, you know, Ihave this appointment or do it
on my way home.
I won't do it.
And so we have these.
Experiences in our day to daylife, whether it's with ice
cream or getting out of bed orwhat task to do first, I mean,
(15:23):
whatever it is, there's a partof us that wants to do something
or is interested or intrigued.
And then there's another part ofus that's like, maybe not.
Maybe we shouldn't.
How much money do we have in ourbank account?
What is our time schedule?
Right?
So we experience this all thetime, all the time.
Every single one of us does.
And really what parts work is,is it saying, okay, we have
(15:46):
these kind of elements, we couldcall them, sub personalities.
I mean, there's different wordswe can use.
And we're not saying apersonality disorder.
I always have to give thatdisclosure.
We're not saying that, but wehave these kinds of parts within
us that make up our wholeperson.
Make up the parts of ourpersonality.
And, These parts have their ownkind of desires and goals, and
(16:10):
they always mean well for us.
They're always trying to helpus, protect us and guide us.
And then we have our inmostself.
Now, our inmost self is not apart.
Our inmost self is the child ofGod within, the image of God.
So God saw all that he had made,and he saw that it was good,
right?
(16:31):
And so, I mean, this is like, tome, very theology of the body.
Very, based in, of course, ourchurch's teachings on the person
made in the image and likenessof God, so we have our inmost
self, which is this, perfect,truly perfect image of God
within us, right?
(16:51):
Not a part.
And the inmost self is supposedto lead and guide that system of
parts.
And if that sounds a littlecrazy, I think one of the
easiest way to explain this, isjust to think about the Trinity.
We know that the Trinity is aneternal exchange of love, where
(17:12):
you have the love.
Between God, the Father and God,the Son is the Holy Spirit.
And there's this eternal givingand receiving of love.
And so if we believe, as we do,that we are made in God's image
and likeness, and God saw allthat he had made and he saw that
it was good, it makes sense thatthe person would also have an
(17:35):
eternal, internal relationshipwithin.
That we would not be amonolithic whole.
If we're made in God's image andlikeness, And God isn't a
monolithic whole, right?
He's a union of persons.
Then we too would reflect thatin some way.
And so the verse we always lookto for this is, when Jesus says
(17:59):
the greatest commandment is tolove the Lord your God with all
your heart, with all your soul,and to love your neighbor as
yourself.
To love your neighbor asyourself.
So from there, we gather that weare to love ourself.
Now, if I'm supposed to lovemyself, Again, I can't be a
(18:23):
monolithic whole love requires agiver and a receiver, right?
Just like in the Trinity, therehas to be a giver and there has
to be a receiver.
You can't have, you know, a rockcan't love itself.
So we have to have this abilityto love.
And so, so who, who is the loverwho loves, right?
So our inmost self is that,image of God within us.
(18:49):
That has been given to everysingle one of us, every single
one of us made in his image andlikeness, the human person,
every single one of us has aninmost self.
This doesn't come at baptism.
The inmost self is part of ourhumanity being made in his image
and likeness.
And so that inmost self gets toknow those parts, gets to love
(19:12):
those parts, gets to see, hearand affirm those parts.
And then those parts Kind oflook to the inmost self as like
the Good Shepherd who then leadsthem to the Father and the Son
and the Holy Spirit.
It's very much a reflection, amirroring of Jesus and his work
(19:33):
here, right?
So he gives us this inmost selfto guide us.
And the goal is that we listento those parts that sometimes
misbehave.
Sometimes our parts, we can sendthrough our parts, we can have
parts that act out like crazyteenagers or toddlers or all
kinds of different things.
It's, it's not any excuse for asin or something.
(19:54):
So we have these parts that aregood and they mean well, but
just like any teenager ortoddler or adult, they can
misbehave.
And we might have, a reallyinsecure part.
Um, who is.
Really doubting themselves andin that doubt, they are
impatient and react orsomething, right?
We hurt somebody and we'reunkind.
And so the goal would be thento, for the inmo self, to talk
(20:17):
to that part, to lead that part,to ask what's going on, and to
help understand and guide themjust like a parent would with
their child.
Does that make sense?
Or does that seem a little No,the inmost self reminds me of
the inner dwelling of theTrinity that St.
Elizabeth of the Trinity talksabout.
It's like this inner chamber,this inner cell where the Lord
(20:38):
resides, right?
And that is the image.
That's what you're talkingabout.
So different saints usedifferent words to describe
that.
But again, theology of the body,we are made in the image of God.
And I just want to highlightlove of self because if you read
Particular writings.
There's a lot of talk about thecrucifixion of the self, the
(21:02):
dying of self, self love is theroot of all evil, right?
There's all of these things, butwe're talking about a proper
love of self.
And that is different than alove of our fleshly desires and
passions, right?
It's a loving of, like you saidthat in most self, of the
(21:24):
Trinity that is within us.
Is that worded correctly?
Yeah.
I mean, people do get a littleuncomfortable with this,
especially Catholics.
I think we go, wait a second.
What are we saying?
Self love?
What?
And I think we could just besuper practical and just ask
ourselves this.
Can you think of a time whereyou were, where you were
corrected in a harsh, shamefulor critical way and you felt
(21:48):
terrible and you tried to dobetter, but you felt so
discouraged you didn't really dobetter.
And it was just really awkwardand uncomfortable and painful.
And then can you think of a timewhere somebody really genuinely
loved you and saw you in yourpain and suffering?
Maybe held you in your sin.
Maybe you were talking aboutsomething you've done that you
(22:10):
felt really bad about and youjust received so much mercy,
that you were inspired to dobetter.
Right?
We've all had that experience inour life where we've been shamed
and felt worse about somethingwe've done or struggled with or
we've been Affirmed and valuedand given mercy and we've been
transformed and that's reallywhat we're talking about here
(22:33):
that that that Relationship withthe parts that love of self is
the parts of Having what wewould call in the psychology
world, a secure attachment tothe self in the same way that a
child needs a secure attachmentwith their parents, our little
parts need a secure attachmentto our inmost self.
(22:55):
So that's what we mean by inmostby loving the inmost self.
And then, of course, I can'tgive what I don't have.
So if I don't love myself, ifI'm always going back to that
example of shaming and beratingand criticizing, if I'm always
shaming, berating, andcriticizing my parts or myself,
or, you know, beating myself upinside, well, that's going to
come out, it's going to come outof my parenting.
(23:17):
It's going to come out in myworking relationships and my
marriage and my prayer and how Irelate to God.
So it all, I think it just kindof resonates with the human
experience.
Yes.
Yes.
This.
Foundational piece of lovingourselves as the Lord loves us,
like not hiding, right?
(23:37):
Because in shame, we hide theday we're recording on
Valentine's Day and thatscripture today at mass was of
the fall.
So this is perfect, right?
But not hiding, not hiding inshame, but seeing who we are
right now, all of theseimperfect pieces, these
unfinished parts.
(24:00):
That maybe just haven't growninto the fullness and the
perfection of what they will oneday become and first and
foremost is the attachment thatin most self are attachment to
the Lord versus attachment toother things.
Yeah, and that we reallyactually, and this is where you
(24:21):
know, some listeners might go,Kylie, did you vet her?
We really have to love ourselffirst.
That's actually not.
A false teaching.
Okay.
So if we do understand that ourself is actually the indwelling
of the Holy Spirit within us,then we actually have to love
(24:43):
ourselves first and then we loveGod and then we love others.
And this is really, something weget very, very uncomfortable
with, very uncomfortable with,but it is grounded in our
churches teachings in ourunderstanding of.
(25:04):
Our call to sanctity and tounification with the Lord.
And we look at Aquinas and hesays, grace builds on nature.
And so that, that experience ofthe inmost self, which is again,
let me very, very clear here.
The inmost self is not a minordeity.
We're not saying we're littlegods.
I think this is where internalfamily systems can take it too
(25:25):
far.
They can, they can go a little,um.
different kind of eastern spiritreligion kind of approach.
We do not at all subscribe tothat.
So we can take the best frominternal family systems, which
is the parts work founded by DrRichard Schwartz.
We can take the best from thereand put that through our
(25:47):
catholic anthropology and lensand then, discard what is not
relevant, what is not helpful.
And so, IFS might say that we dobecome like little gods, right?
But of course we would not saythat at all, but we'd say the
Lord is within us, just like yousaid, Elizabeth of the Trinity.
So, and Teresa of Avila writesabout this, um, Teresa Blaseur,
(26:07):
I mean, not in the same wordswe're using today, but this
whole concept of being thatlittle child and Loving the Lord
who's within us loving lovingthe indwelling of the Holy
Spirit in us.
That really is our foundation.
And then from there, we get tolove our father and our heavenly
mother and others, right?
(26:28):
Um, but that love of.
Self, the indwelling of the HolySpirit, the inmost self is
actually the foundation.
I'm so glad that you broughtsome of this up because one, I
think that we can't grow withoutbeing uncomfortable.
And so when we feel resistance.
to things even within our ownfaith.
(26:51):
For some of us, our naturalinclination is to just run away
from it, to ignore it, or toautomatically discredit it.
And so I think just allowingourselves, and this can happen
with everyday occurrences too,right?
Like when we are uncomfortable,it's hard to sometimes just sit
with the Lord.
We want to distract ourselvesfrom it.
So just allowing ourselves tosit in the discomfort and ask
(27:11):
the Lord to reveal to us what istrue.
And I'm so grateful that youbrought up Whenever we are
looking at psychology or justreally anything in the world to
just pray to be awake, St.
Ignatius always talks aboutthis, be awake, be aware.
So just be aware, you justmentioned internal family
systems sometimes can, can gotoo far, but there are really,
(27:34):
really great and incredibleCatholic psychologists who Oh
yes, phenomenal.
Can again, root this back insome of the teachings of the
saints, they can root it back inscripture.
They can bring the fullness ofour Catholic faith together to
give us a really beautiful humanformation.
(27:54):
And God is the ultimate healer.
But we can also approach thingsfrom different aspects to help
us find that full healing.
Yes, yes, definitely.
And we have such a richtradition in the church of doing
this.
I mean, Augustine referencedPlato a lot, and Aquinas
referenced Aristotle a lot,right?
(28:17):
So these are both You know,pagan philosophers who predated
Christ, but we take, we take thetruth from what we have,
wherever it comes from, and thendiscard the parts that aren't
true or aren't relevant oraren't, conducive to our faith.
Absolutely.
Okay.
So can you give our audiencesome tangible takeaways of
(28:41):
Recognizing these parts that wehave and how can we learn to
love them and help them worktogether?
Yeah, I think it's, it really isfirst just, it's that, it's that
awareness.
And we kind of experience thatawareness in the resistance you
mentioned.
We'll feel uncomfortable withsomething.
(29:02):
I mean, this could be, I walkinto my kitchen and, it's a
mess.
You know, somebody hasn'tfinished their job or somebody
left their, shoes in thedoorway.
Or a, a coworker didn't respondpromptly or politely to an
email, whatever it is, whetherit's at work at home and church
(29:23):
in our prayer life, when weexperience some type of internal
frustration or reaction, we cankind of look at that, as a part
and just kind of turn inwardjust acknowledge that.
Just acknowledge that.
And again, when we go back toour own human experience, we all
know that those moments in ourlife where we've just been
(29:45):
acknowledged in our suffering,not dismissed, not given some
little happy quote, but justacknowledge like that hurts.
Hey, I see you in new pain,right?
That just really calms, calms,um, the part down, calms
ourselves down and helps tobegin that relationship.
(30:08):
The first thing is awareness,acknowledgement of the part
there that's, that's probablyspeaking up that you're
experiencing in that tension orfrustration of some level.
So much of this is, again, justtaking me to St.
Ignatius of Loyola, be aware,understand, and take action is
what he always says, and I'mgoing to have to do some
(30:31):
research because I'm fascinatedto hear how the parts work kind
of meshes with movements of thespirits, good spirits and bad
spirits.
I think that's beyond the scopeof this podcast, but that's
where my mind is going.
But I'm just hearing you sayingwe need to feel our feelings.
And just recognize that they arehappening, not trying to
suppress them and shove themdown.
(30:53):
That image that I think is useda lot in psychology is like the
beach ball in the water, wherewe're trying to push it down and
we push it under the water, butwe know, the harder we push it
down, it's gonna explode back upin our face.
Right.
You just have to, to feel whatwe are feeling.
Recognize it.
It doesn't mean we have to takea negative action, but feelings
(31:13):
are neutral.
Yeah, and it's excruciatinglypainful.
Let's just be really honest withthe human condition here.
It is so so So painful.
You know, we think about painand we think of childbirth or
wisdom, teeth removal orsurgeries, whatever, the result
(31:36):
after, running a marathon,whatever we think of those kinds
of things.
But I honestly think, on a dailybasis, the pain of actually
feeling our emotions is sosignificant that most of us tend
to numb those in some form orcapacity.
And I certainly don't say thatto incur shame or, or, uh, guilt
(31:58):
anybody, but to say, you know,when I, I, so I have this, I
have a bit of a fierytemperament and, there's a part
of me that can get, can be, Icall her my, I call it my feisty
protector.
So I can have this kind of partthat can get really upset really
easily.
And the more I just noticed thatpart and just.
(32:21):
allow myself to sit there andfeel the pain.
You know, it's like when you'regetting like a blood draw at the
doctor and you just have to sitthere and breathe through it and
you can't run away.
You can't stop it.
And you know that if you likesit there and grit your teeth,
it's going to feel worse.
You just have to breathe throughit.
And I find that when I just feelthat pain of the uncomfortable,
Emotion that the part that'sacting up and I don't say
(32:44):
anything to take it out onsomebody.
I don't do a cognitive exercise.
I don't ask myself what I'mlearning from this.
I don't do some type of, mentaljujitsu.
It's it's just just be with it.
Don't don't ask yourself whatthe blessing in it is.
(33:07):
Don't do anything.
It's and it's verycounterintuitive.
Because our natural reaction isto make it go away.
If I eat, I'll make it go away.
If I scroll, I'll make it goaway.
If I yell, I'll make it go away.
If I, go for a run, I'll make itgo away.
Some of these things can bereally good things.
(33:28):
You know, if I exercise, I'llmake it go away.
What if we first just sat withit?
Like Jesus with the woman at thewell, he meets her in her sin.
He meets her in her mess.
He meets her in like the heightof her emotional lows, right?
She's built this whole lifearound her sinful lifestyle.
(33:49):
She now goes to the well at theworst time of day, the most
uncomfortable time of day.
And he meets her in that.
He doesn't meet her.
On her way to the well, hedoesn't meet her after the well,
he meets her at the well.
And I think that's a greatmessage to us.
In the moment of our sin, of ourstruggle, of our resistance, of
(34:14):
our emotional pain, we just haveto be there with it.
First.
The self with the parts, right?
We don't even have to worryabout, I want to say this really
carefully.
Our, our life can be a prayer,right?
So we don't even have to like,stop and quote, pray, like just
(34:35):
accompanying our parts ismodeling exactly what the good
shepherd did for us does for us.
Just like Jesus accompanied thewoman at the well and everyone
he accompanied.
So that in most self is like theshepherd for our parts.
Thanks.
Truly is the guide.
(34:57):
And it's so uncomfortable.
We just have to own that.
Because I hate it when I getreally upset when that feisty
protector comes out.
I mean, I will literally,sometimes just be like, I'm just
gonna lay down on the floor justso my body can feel all the
parts of the floor on it.
Not on my bed, on the floor, andjust, just feel it.
That's it.
Just feel it.
Like a blood draw.
(35:17):
That's what I think about allthe time.
Yeah, I love that.
I'm not as familiar with partswork.
I'm Exploring it more, but I'vetalked about the four
temperaments a lot on thispodcast and the choleric quick
reactor in me.
Yes.
It comes out and we talk about alot that this can often come out
as anger or frustration.
(35:39):
Normally for me, it's interiorfrustration, often with myself,
but this quick reactor came outin me the other day because I
made a mistake.
And.
That shouldn't be a big deal,right?
We all make mistakes, weoverlook things, but because it
affected someone else, I justimmediately felt shame and
terrible about myself.
And it was nighttime, and justlike you said, I wanted to avoid
(36:02):
that feeling so badly.
I want to go eat some chocolate,I want to just open up a book on
my phone and read a good book,like, a story to take me out of
what I'm feeling, but Like yousaid, just sitting and feeling,
I was about to pray my nightlyexam and so I sat there, I
didn't do a lot of reflectingfor me, you know, like you said,
(36:26):
we don't necessarily have to usewords, but for me, my simple
prayer was Lord, this is souncomfortable.
Just help me to embrace thediscomfort and that was like,
just sit here and the quicker wecan just sit in it.
Actually, the faster it goesaway, really, it's because it's
that acknowledgement.
Mm hmm.
(36:47):
Because when we try to shove itdown, it just sticks with us.
And it's like it festers andgrows bigger.
Absolutely, it does.
And when we don't acknowledge,those parts, they really do
freak out.
I mean, I think about this allthe time, especially as a
mother.
You know, we all have.
experiences with our children,especially when they're younger
and they want something.
(37:07):
Maybe like they're a toddler andthey're nagging for something.
Maybe we're in the midst ofmaking dinner and we, brush it
aside and go just a minute, justa minute, just a minute, just a
minute.
And then they start freaking outeventually, throwing things, I
don't know, you know, having anaccident in their pants,
whatever happens, right.
They freak out and, and.
That's really what happens withus, you know, so eventually the
parts are just like, wow.
(37:28):
And so, when we attune toanother in the same way, when we
attune to those parts within us,they feel seen and heard and
they calm down and, it, it doeswork and it does make a
difference.
And it is very different thanthat kind of top down approach
of like thought emotion action,I think and then I have a
feeling because of that thoughtand then I act.
(37:50):
That's, that's a very, differentapproach.
This is more kind of tuning inmore to our body, and listening
there and understanding our bodyis this way that God
communicates with us.
John Paul II tells us in thetheology of the body that the
body and it alone is capable ofrevealing the divine.
(38:10):
And the physical, right?
So we know that the Lordcommunicates to us through our
bodies and he himself saved usthrough his body.
He didn't save us.
Through an angel, he didn't saveus through, like, he didn't have
to save us through his son,right?
He could have just saved us bysnapping his fingers.
He could have saved us any wayhe wanted to.
And yet he saved us through, thehumanity and divinity of Jesus
(38:35):
Christ.
And I think that tells us a lotthat how important it is to
integrate our body into ourhealing.
Absolutely.
I love that.
as we get near to wrapping up,how have you found this part's
work has impacted your spirituallife?
That's a really, that is areally interesting question
(38:59):
because it has had a hugeimpact.
I would say that the parts workhas really impacted my spiritual
life and my, my relationshipwith God, especially God, my
father.
It's had a huge impact becauseas I have kind of Attuned to
myself to go into my interiorcastle is Teresa of Avala would
(39:21):
say, and kind of be there andget to know my parts.
I've gotten to see the ways thatsome of my parts within me, you
know, sometimes we use thislanguage of like our inner child
or something like that.
We could say some of our partscarry these burdens, these
fears, these experiences ormemories where They really
(39:43):
struggle with something, maybesomething from our childhood,
something that was reallydifficult and, what I've seen is
that when I have helped my partsattune to my inmost self, to the
indwelling of the Holy Spiritwithin me, and when I've, from
my inmost self, guided them andseen them and loved them and not
(40:08):
shamed them, they have Been ableto see that that is actually the
way my father in heaven lovesme.
We hear all of these thingsgrowing up, especially in our
Sunday school and, Catholicschool, wherever you are about,
you know, Jesus loves you andGod loves you and you're unique
(40:31):
and you're unrepeatable.
And of course, all of that'strue and beautiful, but so often
it's something that's in ourhead and it's not at all in our
heart.
We say that a lot.
And so I think the parts workhas really helped to bring
things that intellectually Ibelieved, but emotionally and
physically I didn't feel orbelieve.
And it's helped to bring thosethings home.
I mean, we, we actually have tohave a felt.
(40:54):
Sense of safety and love.
It is not enough for any one ofus.
This is a fundamental principleof psychology.
It is not enough for any one ofus to simply intellectually know
that I am loved or safe or caredfor.
I have to actually feel that inmy body.
I have to feel that in my body.
(41:15):
This is wiring from God, right?
I have to know that.
I mean, that's, that's why hecame in bodily form.
Very, very tangible.
And so, we have to have thatexperience.
And when we can have thatexperience in our inner system,
that's what we call like therelationship between our self
and our parts.
(41:36):
Then I think that does have ahuge impact on our faith and I
know it has for me and it's beena very gradual journey I've had
my own wounds and feeling ofneglect and, different
experiences and, and things likethat.
And so when my parts have cometo trust my inmost self, they've
also been able to open up totrusting my heavenly father,
(42:00):
which has made a big difference.
That is beautiful.
It's so beautiful to just lookat how the Lord has taken you
from your head into your heart,which is so important.
That's what we talk about in mySpiritual Direction classes.
Our goal is as a director to letthe Holy Spirit lead the
(42:22):
directee from the head into theheart, because the heart is
where the Lord operates.
And we see that over and overagain in Scripture.
So just like you said, manypeople know intellectually or
can believe intellectually, forexample, the Eucharist, that
that is the body, blood, soul,and divinity of God.
(42:43):
But if they have neverexperienced that in their heart,
then They miss that miracle thatoccurs at mass.
It's kind of going through themotions type of thing is how I
think of it.
Oh, absolutely.
And we think about this in allour relationships.
I mean, you can't just, your kidcan't just know you love him.
He has to feel it, right?
(43:05):
And same with your spouse.
And, we can't live life justgoing through the motions.
There has to be a relationalpiece, a felt sense of safety
and love.
It's key.
Absolutely.
I want to highlight a couple ofother things that you said
before we get to our closing.
I love this question that yousaid at the beginning, is asking
ourselves, what is the fear?
(43:25):
What will happen if I don'tachieve?
What will happen if I stopstriving?
And just sit with that question.
Take that to the Lord in prayer.
The significance of allowing ourparts to be seen.
Our inner, if our inner part ishaving a toddler tantrum and
meltdown, just acknowledge that.
(43:47):
And then most importantly, Ithink just sitting in the
discomfort, even when it'spainful, allowing ourselves to
feel our feelings.
Yes.
Yeah.
We have to feel to heal.
We can't go around it, under it,over it, you know, I mean, I
love that book, Going on a BearHunt.
It's a classic children's book,and they have to go through it.
(44:09):
They can't go over it, theycan't go under it.
Oh, that just took me tochildhood memory.
My mom used to do that with usall the time.
Yeah, it's a great book.
Okay, I always end every episodewith a prayer tip or a scripture
verse.
You gave me Psalm 34.
This is a longer one, but I'mgoing to read it because I just
think it is so powerful.
(44:30):
In the very first line, I'm partof the Legion of Mary and It
just takes me back to the partof the prayer we always say,
You, O Lord, will open my mouthand my tongue shall announce
your praise.
And this phrase just goes in myhead all the time, especially
when I feel anxious aboutspeaking, or anything like that.
(44:50):
And it's like, no, the Lord,just let the Lord speak.
And he takes care of it.
So Psalm 34, I will bless theLord at all times.
His praise shall always be in mymouth.
My soul will glory in the Lord.
Let the poor hear and be glad.
Magnify the Lord with me, andlet us exalt his name together.
(45:12):
I sought the Lord, and heanswered me, delivered me from
all my fears.
Look to him and be radiant, andyour faces may not blush for
shame.
This poor one cried out, and theLord heard him, and from all his
distress he saved him.
The angel of the Lord encampsaround those who fear him, and
(45:35):
he saves them.
Taste and see that the Lord isgood.
Blessed is the stalwart one whotakes refuge in him.
Fear the Lord, you his holyones.
Nothing is lacking to those whofear him.
The rich grow poor and gohungry.
But those who seek the Lord lackno good thing.
(45:57):
Come, children, listen to me.
I will teach you to fear theLord.
Who is the man who delights inlife, who loves to see the good
days?
Keep your tongue from evil, yourlips from speaking lies.
Turn from evil and do good.
Seek peace and pursue it.
The eyes of the Lord aredirected toward the righteous
(46:20):
and his ears toward their cry.
The Lord's face is againstevildoers to wipe out their
memory from the earth.
The righteous cry out, the Lordhears, and he rescues them from
all their afflictions.
The Lord is close to thebrokenhearted.
He saves those whose spirit iscrushed.
(46:42):
Many are the troubles of therighteous, but the Lord delivers
him from them all.
He watches over all his bones,not one of them shall be broken.
Evil will slay the wicked, thosewho hate the righteous are
condemned.
The Lord is the redeemer of thesouls of his servants.
And none are condemned who takerefuge in him.
(47:09):
Such a beautiful psalm.
I think I could sit with anyverse from that and just sit
with it.
Like, that's, that's a holy hourright there, just a single
phrase.
Yes.
Yes.
And I just want to reallyquickly acknowledge that that
is, it's a Psalm I love.
It's also a Psalm that greatlychallenges many of my parts
(47:32):
because some of my parts go,wait, what do you mean?
The Lord is close to the brokenhearted, like where was he when
I hurt, when I was suffered.
And so I just want to just sayfor your audience, you know, if
you're reading that or readingany prayer or any Psalm, and
you're, you're wrestling withthat.
That's okay.
So we can just sit with thatpart.
So a lot of times when I praythat song, which is one of my
favorites is I sit with thoseparts that go, okay, where were
(47:57):
you?
Because that is such a validquestion.
You know?
I mean, that's what, that's whatthey asked.
Jesus, when Lazarus died, wherewere you?
And so we have these parts oftenthat ask that and can we sit
with those parts that come up invarious prayers when we talk
about the Lord's goodness and wehave these little parts that go,
what do you mean?
(48:18):
What do you mean he's good?
Look what happened to my family.
That's okay to sit with them andto ask, where were you and to
tell him how you feel about it?
Like, Lord, I don't feel likeyou were there and it makes me
angry or it makes me sad, or hedoes reveal to you where he was
and we might not like it.
Yeah.
We can tell him those things.
It's important to tell him thosethings.
(48:40):
Yes, and even before that, liketo listen to those parts that
tell you, let's first hear whatthe parts have to say, what are
they upset about?
Amen.
And then we can bring that tohim.
Yeah.
This has been so good, Margaret.
I'm so grateful for you to bringin, for bringing this to me
because parts work was somethingI did struggle with a little bit
and I really had to.
(49:01):
Right.
Through it.
Yes.
You had parts that were like,well, I just, I didn't know
enough.
And it was honestly, I did alittle bit of reading and a
little bit of listening and itreally just lifted all of those
resistances that I had to it.
But again, it's just thatpraying to be aware.
And it's not a bad thing to haveresistance.
(49:23):
It's a good thing, right?
It's a good thing in our faithto not just openly accept
anything and everything.
Oh, absolutely.
And we, we do have to be aware.
And I'm so grateful for all ofthe Catholic communities and all
of these men and women who areso diligent in Taking human
(49:44):
formation and these beautifulpractices and going back and
showing how they are rooted inour faith and in the saints and
in scripture.
It's incredible and it'sbeautiful and these are all just
different avenues, I think, toapproach that human formation
that can help lead us from thehead to the heart.
So if this doesn't fit with you,that is okay.
(50:07):
There are other avenues, but Ijust pray that for someone
listening, if this Resonateswith you.
Then go explore more.
Do you have any favoriteresources, Margaret, on Hearts
work?
I, I love the Souls and Heartscommunity.
So Souls and hearts.com, that'sDr.
Peter Malinowski and Jerry Creterun that.
(50:29):
Dr.
Jerry Cree wrote the book,litanies of the Heart, published
by Sophia Institute Press.
That came out in January of.
2024, that's a phenomenalCatholic, approach to parts.
And he has a very helpfulcriticism of, Dr.
Richard Schwartz, his book, nobad parts, um, his book on IFS.
(50:50):
And so Dr.
Jerry kind of takes us through.
Parts work from a Catholicperspective and discarding the
parts of IFS that aren't helpfulor good.
So those are like some of myfavorites.
Of course, there's the InteriorIntegration for Catholics
podcast.
That's Dr.
Peter Malinowski's podcast onparts.
So that's kind of where I hangout a lot.
(51:11):
And then, of course, I work withpeople helping them with parts.
I really integrate that intoeverything that I do in my
coaching.
I coach leadership groups,parishes, staff, and then I do
individual, and I offer bookstudies and things like that.
Always bringing a lot of stuffback through the parts lens.
And Margaret is an excellentcoach.
(51:31):
I've been coached by her.
We went through certificationtogether and also just stayed
connected and we coach eachother from off and on just
training coaching.
I think it's always wonderfuljust to get coached by different
people and let their gifts thatGod has given them shine
through.
We experience different things.
So I'm so grateful for you,Margaret, and for being here and
(51:54):
I still remember last June, Ithink you and I had had a
conversation, and we weretalking about parts work prior
to this, and I went to aspiritual direction, kind of
formation thing, and we had aCatholic therapist there, and I
sat with him at lunch, and I waslike, tell me what you know
about parts work, because I justreally wanted to be open to it,
(52:17):
and I think that kind of Kind ofbroke that, resistance that I
had and brought me, furtheraround.
So I'm excited to continue withit.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
It's been life changing for me.
It really has.
So thank you again.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Beautiful souls, thank you againfor journeying with me.
(52:39):
If you have been blessed by thisepisode, it would mean the world
to me if you would leave areview.
Be sure to screenshot it, shareit on your social media stories,
and don't forget to tag me onInstagram or Facebook at Kylie
M.
Hine.
Stay persistent in prayer,protect your peace, and as
always, share the light ofChrist with everyone around you.
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