The Jenn Lewis Interview: easy ways to increase your sales averages and much more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Mowbray (00:06):
Recorded live from Cheryl's she shed. It's the
photo happy hour

Unknown (00:11):
podcast.

Hey, and welcome everybody come on in and
grab a seat at the bar. I'm yourphoto happy hour. bartender
Michael Mowbray and I'm servingup icy bottles of photography bs
today. Joining me behind the barare Dan Frievalt. And Carl
Caylor. Say Hey, guys,

Dan Frievalt (00:33):
Hey, what's up everyone?

Carl Caylor (00:35):
I was waving in case you didn't hear that.

Wave waving always works in audio. Yeah,
exactly. Yes. To make more noisewhen you wave. Shoulder to pop a
little bit. There we go.

Now we don't want to do that anymore.

So what do you guys drinking today?

very disappointed Chardonnay. And I'm thinking of

don't always go together.

Think I'm gonna break and grab a whole garden
beer. It's kind of fall so

fancy. What do you got Carl? Oh, well, let me
guess. Tennessee whiskey. Youbetcha. We're just gonna skip
over you from now on this

variety. Well, in case I do have something else,
you know, I'll let you know.

It's turning into like the chicken nuggets of
what we're drinking. Exactly.
And I'm having a 10 Year OldPort Charlotte. scotch, very
peaty.

Ooh, and you have that custom cube thingy in
there. Again,

react. I've got my granite in there. It's from
brancati.

God bless you.

Brooklyn.
brewery you're not brewerydistillery in Scotland. So
anyway, if you're joining us forthe first time, we're off to a
rip and rip barn starts so far.
You're joining us for the firsttime. We are three professional
photographers who have beenaround for a while. And we'd
like to get together and have afew drinks. And the more we
drink, the more we know. And themore bs we spill. So spiel.

so spicy spiel?
Yeah, let's go with it.

So every week we typically have a topic, but
for this week, we do not. Wehave a guest. Our guest. You
guys know who our guest is?

I do. I'll tell you I could. Yeah, I could see her.

Unknown (02:20):
She's right. underneath you there.

Oh, she's here.
Um, our guest this week is JanLewis. A photographer from is it
pronounced kleem owns t mons.

Jenn Lewis (02:33):
So close. Clemens.

Unknown (02:35):
Oh, God.
That's so good to see that.
It makes them so happy Dan. Thepoop

emoji has already been fired today. So
anyway, Jan is a photographer inClemens, North Carolina. And she
specializes mostly in seniorsand headshots, and has a passion
about the business side ofphotography, especially sales.
So we're gonna talk about somebusiness. We'll talk about some

(03:07):
sales will go off about 14different tangents and then in
about an hour from now, we'lltry to figure out what the hell
we talked about.

Drink and and as you mentioned, sales like three
quarters of people just skip tothe next episode. Not because of
you, Jen. But just you know,yeah, whatever sales comes up.
It's the least sexy topic thatthere is right?

Unknown (03:34):
I know taking amazing photos is sexy, but making money
i think is pretty sexy, too.

I agree with that.

I think spending money is pretty sexy myself.
That's still hard to do. Butit's spending that I could I
have a blast with that man.

Next year spending somebody else's money.
Ooh,

that's true. Let's talk about that. Banking again.
Somebody else's money,

which is why it's so easy to refer more like gear
to everyone. Right.

Unknown (04:14):
Small Yes.

Just a few of those.

I think you might have collections. You
need. You need one of those newthose new LED ones that do
multiple colors.

Unknown (04:29):
Multiple of those led ones in multiple colors. I am I
did not remember you sayinganything about that. And then I
saw the post on Facebook and I'mpretty freakin excited. Well,
you know, I had the LC 500 justlike the regular one. I love it.
So yeah, I want I like makingthings colors. So

I didn't say anything because I forgot that I
had ordered them and then theyshowed up. Oh yeah,

Unknown (04:54):
well, you should probably like send me one and
forget that you sent me one andthen send me another one. No.

All right, let's try

Unknown (05:04):
next. You gotta

get the picture at the end of the episode after his
his scotch is kicked in a littlebit more. Yeah,

Unknown (05:12):
everybody gets one, you should
refill that glass Michael.
bottle. I'm excited. There itis. Yeah,

I can't get up and go over to the bar, I bring
my bottle with me.

He brings the bar with him.

So Jen, you gave yourself a kind of an
interesting challenge lately?

Unknown (05:32):
I did.

And tell us about that. What is it and why?

Unknown (05:36):
So I for the last like six I've been
renting in the studio that I'vebeen renting here for Well, not
the studio, but two differentspots in the same building for
almost seven years. And for thelast like six years, I just look
periodically and see what kindof properties or commercial
properties are for sale. And forthe first time in six years, I

(05:59):
actually found one that wasinteresting enough to go look
at. So I went to look at it theother day, it's an old, it's not
an old gas station, although itkind of looks like it. But it's
an old like mechanic's garage.
And I wanted something unique,like all the properties that are
for sale around here are alllike, you know, medical offices,

(06:19):
buildings that were built in,like the 70s. And they all look
the same. And they all have likeugly carpet and eight foot
ceilings. And you know, the samething, which is not really my
vision for a studio. So, soyeah, I just kind of look
periodically, and with COVIDgoing on, I've been looking a
little more often, um, justbecause I thought you know, with
people in situations now, orthey may be selling buildings or

(06:42):
something like that. Soobviously, good time to look in
the interest rates are low, butreally, really terrible time to
try to buy because, you know,volumes down quite a bit from
where it normally is this timeof year. And so anyway, I found
it and went to look the otherday, and I was really hoping I
would hate it. That was likethat would have been the easiest

(07:02):
thing is if I went in and waslike, Oh, this is terrible. It's
not gonna work. Nevermind. Butthat's not what happened. I
think it's got a ton ofpotential. I sent Dan photos the
other day. So he's seen thephotos from it, think it's got a
lot of potential, it does needsome work, but mostly cosmetic.
Um, and anyway, so I'm meetingwith a banker on Monday, to see
what my financial options are togo ahead and proceed with like

(07:26):
making an offer. So that'swhat I mean.
It's very adulty for me, so I'ma little nervous.

Yeah, it's very adulty for you. One thing that
just occurred to me, and this isgonna get, you know, way too dry
in business, see, if it was aformer, like mechanics place
where the work in cars and such,you want to probably make sure
that that site is been clearedand doesn't have to be bio
remediated because of oilleakage and toxic things into

(07:54):
the ground because you wouldn'twant to buy the property. And
then the EPA comes in says, Hey,you got to spend $300,000 to bio
remediate this ground. Yeah, belike, yeah, I didn't talk. I
didn't toxify the ground.
Somebody else. I know people whothey don't care.

Yeah, right. I know, people that have happened
to them.

It's it's the first thing I tell her when she
sent the photos. Yeah. So it'skind of funny. And her friend
said the same thing. So so good,that good. Yeah, that I didn't
realize when I looked at abuilding, but apparently it is
quite common. And she alreadyknew and stuff. So it's funny
that you said that right away?
Absolutely. laughing like, Ah,

well, we have good friends that that's their
company. They go to all theseSuperfund sites, and they're an
engineering company that goes inand, and fixes all that stuff.

Carl, is that, you?
Know, it's my boy, Colin. Butyes, it was me.

Unknown (08:50):
No, it wasn't you calling Carl. Thank you. This is

the reason why we do the podcast like this
because I get four differentaudio feeds that I can just say
kids and just turn it off. LikeI do most things.

That's, that's a good thing. You know, it's a
good thing to have.

Unknown (09:07):
So yeah, the challenge though, for So what I'm doing is
because I'm not really in aposition to go buy a building
right now. I'm down about 50 kfrom what I normally am this
time of year. And so normalyears, I would just say Wouldn't
it be a no brainer if I wantedit, you know, but this year is a
little different. So I've givenmyself a 25,030 Days Challenge.

(09:31):
So my goal is to raise

35,000 in 30 day, so how many years is that?
25 3030

Unknown (09:43):
days, so my birthday is October 23. So that's my goal is
to get the extra 25,000 for tohelp with a down payment by my
birthday.

That's 68 years by the way.

Unknown (09:58):
Thank you

Do the math.

Unknown (10:00):
I appreciate that.

Damn Daniel. And he did math again.

Did math go drink? We do math. We have to do
drink.

Unknown (10:08):
Yeah. Well, you know, you guys know basically a five
year old. So

I know. Next time we will just make you have
alligator bites again.

Unknown (10:16):
Oh, gosh. Yeah.

My favorite Gen Ed alligator with us and didn't
like it. We don't know wherewe're at Indus River.

Unknown (10:26):
Yeah, Roberta.
Yeah.
Yeah. And that was awful. And Ialmost gagged and vomited. But I
didn't. So your walk

you had a you didn't have a pleasant look on
your face. I was enjoying it.
But

so so what's your plan of action? Yeah, what's

thousand dollars here?

Unknown (10:47):
So, um, yeah, I'm, like, go.
Carl's gonna take care of that.
For me, we should take my idea.
We mentioned sales earlier beingkind of my jam. So I always like
to give myself sales challenges.
So my sales average for seniorsis 4500. And my sales average

(11:08):
for families is typically aroundthe same, sometimes a little
higher. I don't do as manyfamily so um, but it's usually
around 5000. But again, I don'tdo as many of those and a lot of
my families currently are likeone child families. So those
averages won't be as highbecause I'm not doing separate

(11:30):
Walmart for each kid, you know,for kids or whatever. So, um,
but anyway, yeah, so I'm, I'mpushing family sessions more
than I normally do. Um, I amfollowing up with seniors, I'm
gonna be doing a workshop herein the studio, I am going to
offer I'm presenting to my, mynetworking group, which I do,

(11:52):
I'm huge on the networkinggroups. So I'm really involved
in my networking group andactually present to them a week
from Wednesday. So when Ipresent to them, I'm going to do
a headshot offer and a and acommercial video offer because I
do commercial video as well. SoI'm going to do offers for
those. And it'll be a like youhave to book and pay within a

(12:16):
week, but then you're going toget this special deal. And
that'll be good till the end ofthe year or something like that.
So anyway, yeah, so I've got Ihave a list in my office of,
like, you know, basically myplan outlined is to as far as
like the families that I knowwill book that have been wanting
to book and I'm like, okay,now's the time, it's October,
almost, it's beautiful weatheroutside, like, it's finally not,

(12:38):
I'm in North Carolina. So it'slike, you know, 987% humidity
normally, and you know, 112degrees and all that. And it's
finally cooled down into the70s. And, you know, the well,
humidity, it's raining today.
But humidity is not quite as badand that kind of thing. So I'm
like, this is the time let's doit. I'm doing my family

(13:00):
sessions, I'm giving them anextra I'm giving them $100 print
credit, if they book on aweekday, so I'm trying to fill
up the weekdays like that withthat hundred dollar print
credit. And, and if for youguys, I don't know if you guys
know, I know Dan does. But withmy seniors I actually do if they
book a senior experience, whichis what I'm most known for, if
they book is SR experience, theyget a free family session. So I

(13:23):
don't charge for the familysession, I just give that to
them. And they can buy what theywant. There's no minimum
purchase or anything. However,they're qualified clients,
because they've already done asession with me, I already know
they're spending four or $5,000with me, for a senior, they're
going to do that with a senior,they're typically going to do
that with a family as well, orat least do very well with it.
The sessions are like 45 minutesor an hour typically the family

(13:44):
so it's a lot less time youknow, and still make a good
amount of money. So if I canline those up, and like I said,
throw in the extra hundreddollar print credit in there for
a week day bookings and thatkind of thing. I think. I think
I can pull it together.

So you're you're not gonna do the the mini
session idea. I had no.

Unknown (14:03):
Sessions $50 Mini sessions, and I only
need about $500,000Yeah, it's math once once more.
So it's just a couple days inthe park. Come on.

Yeah, a couple days.

Unknown (14:20):
I can't even imagine,

as I say you bring up a good point that we
mentioned many episodes ago, Ibelieve I'm stretching my
memory. But you know, we havepre qualified clients. And you
know, if you've been in businessfor a year or more, you know,
those past clients, you can goback and and just ask them, Hey,
do you want a free familysession because you're a past

(14:43):
client like mine, or is set upto be taken advantage of in
October. But that doesn't mean Ican't go back and be like, Hey,
I'll still honor that. So ifthere's ever a time of need or
her like cash flow problems, youjust go back to the wild because
like you said they're prequalified and I think A lot of
people get caught up in how do Iget new clients? How do I get
new? How do I get new? And it'sjust like, Hey, you know, you're

(15:06):
not pestering those, the youknow, they probably were like,
oh, my goodness, yes. I alwayswanted to do that. Thank you for
reminding me. Let's get it done.
You know, and

Unknown (15:15):
yeah, definitely. And my clients that I have right
now, like my current seniors, soI the first ones, I've already
emailed my 2020, Senior parents,to offer it to them to remind
them, because I've alreadytalked to all of them about it.
So the ones that haven't done ityet, I'm reminding them. And
also, I'm my 2021 seniors, whenthey come in, I tell them, we do

(15:37):
senior photos in the fall andfamily photos in the spring,
because I'm slower in thespring. And that's when I do the
families. Of course, I was shutdown all of spring this year. So
I didn't get to do my 2020seniors, families in the spring.
And then also because I'm slowerright now than I normally AM.
And all my weekends aren'tbooked like they normally are.
I'm letting them know, like, youdon't have to wait till spring,

(15:58):
if you guys want to go ahead anddo your family session, if you
want to fall family session.
Let's schedule it. So I toldthem, I've been telling them all
that I'm trying to book thoseout for October. So yeah, trying
to get that trying to get hithit my goal, you know, but it's
the goal, I think I can hit thegoal without a problem. But even
if I can't, I'll come close. Andeven if I don't buy the
building, I'll have extra moneyin my account. So I figured, you

(16:18):
know, can't lose that situation.

So just because I think that's a great idea. And a
great goal, too, by the way,that whether we're trying to get
a building and how we can allmake these kinds of goals. But
for the family things, stay onthis topic for a minute. Always.
Are you really going to pushmore for people that were here
last year in the year before andthe year before that, compared

(16:44):
to the seniors who justphotograph this summer? And the
reason I ask is that, by us, Imean, I've a couple times now
they take advantage Oh, you gota free session with, you know,
fairly senior portrait over$1,000. But then they are like,
well, you already you alreadygot a couple thousand dollars
from us. And we don't have anymoney to spend on the family

(17:05):
stuff. So maybe we'll just do aChristmas cards right now. And
then maybe in a year or two,we'll order a wall portrait,
which you know, they never will.
So I guess my thought is, do wereally target more people from
two or three years ago? Is thata better goal or a better
thought?

Unknown (17:21):
For me? I am. My clients don't tend to give me
that blind like honestly, likethey just they know they had a
great experience. And honestly,the more recent the experiences,
the more it's fresh in theirmind. And the more they they're
excited about doing it again,the ones in my experience that
are from a couple of years ago,because I still follow up with
them if they didn't book it. Butthe ones from a couple of years

(17:43):
ago, they tend to put it offmore because they haven't done
it yet. And they're like, Oh,yeah, we'll do it. We'll get
around to it or whatever. Butthe ones that have a more recent
experience, say it's such agreat time they want to do it
again. Because usually the momcomes at the senior and not
always for me because I don'trequire a parent to be there.
It's different. I'm a girl, so Ican get away with that. But
oh, no, no, no, no.

(18:09):
Anyway, but so yeah, so theywant to have that experience
again. And so it's so for me,it's easier to book more recent
people and none of them haveever, you know, said anything,
like we already gave you all ourmoney, but also whenever they
book Originally, I let them knowwhen they're booking during the
consultation that they also geta free family session. And I can

(18:29):
gauge really well then onwhether they're like, Oh my god,
she asked, we haven't had afamily portraits, and she was
four. And we need to update thatbefore she leaves. And I always
tell him like, if you've hadkids who have gone to college,
you know, once they leave, it'sreally hard to get them to come
back to do a family portrait. Soyou got to do it before they
leave. And if they do come backhome for a weekend, they're
coming to go to a concert withtheir friends, they're not

(18:50):
coming for family portraits. SoI always try to get them of
course right now, no concertsgoing on, it might be a little
easier. Yeah, the kids aregetting sent home from college
anyway. So, um, but you know,it's time to do family
portraits. That's exactly whatI'm telling them to, because a
lot of my kids have already beensent home, my 2020 kids, half of
them have already been senthome. So they're home, now

(19:12):
they're doing school online, I'mlike, we could do it a weekday,
you know, start at 530 and bedone in an hour. And you know,
make it nice and easy for them.
So

I think a lot of it comes down to then the
demographics that you're in,because I mean, by us and the
reason I brought this up is alot of our seniors, the people
that are telling me this there'sbeen like a 10th of their
household income on their seniorportraits. And it's not that

(19:40):
they didn't have a greatexperience or don't want to
believe in the product. Theyjust don't have the money to do
it. And so that's why I'mthinking for those in my
situation, you know, to go backa year to when they they're
already recouping a bit on thatmoney, you know, getting letting
those accounts get a little bitbuilt back up again. So

Unknown (20:00):
Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all. I just I don't
have I don't know, my clients.
My clients are not like, youknow, super wealthy people,
they're mostly small businessowners that just do really well
for themselves. And, you know,so they're, you know, they're
not flashy big man to not mostof them. I do have a handful
like that. But, you know, it's,uh, but you know, they're cool
down to earth people, and theyjust like working with me. And

(20:22):
so I'm hoping to get most ofthem scheduled. And I think it's
good for them too, because mostof the clients that I have come
in, they haven't had a familyportrait since the kids were
like, tiny. It's like the sameanswer every single time. It's
very rare that I'll hear Oh, wehad it done when she was 12.
Like, that's recent, compared tomost of the answers. Usually,
it's like when they weretoddlers, and it was at the

(20:43):
beach for a weekend or somethinglike that. So I think it's good
for the parents, too. As aparent of teenagers, that's
something I think is reallyimportant.

And one thing, Carl, maybe a suggestion, if
that is happening is do somesort of, Okay, well, I'll do X
amount off their Christmascards. If you order the portrait
today, you know, day kind ofthing, you know, or what I would
do, it's a, it's 100, eventhough the family sessions free,

(21:14):
they have to put $100 down tohold that date, that then goes
towards the order. And that Yep,kind of helps with some of those
objections. And some of thethings Jen was saying, too, it's
like, hey, now's the time. And Idon't maybe it doesn't happen as
often for me, because I reallydon't push Christmas cards at
all. You know, I'm saying, Hey,get the family portrait. And,

(21:38):
you know, you can get, that'swhere I will sell a digital file
for, for release, because Idon't want to screw around with
with Christmas cards, I'd rathersell the file to them. Even if
it's only $100 a file, they getthree, four files. I don't have
to mess with it. I don't have toworry about printing or typos or
delivering them on Christmasmorning because they didn't come

(22:01):
in and the lab wasn't there. Andyeah, all that stuff. It's

Unknown (22:05):
typos. Especially Dan, right.

Yeah, I'm even.
I'm kind of known for my typos.

Unknown (22:12):
No,

we haven't talked about that multiple
times.

No, K and o w. So john, you just remind me of
something, by the way, for thefamilies another incentive,
because you mentioned, likemyself, a lot of the people that
I have that I work with, arebusiness owners are small
business owners in the area. AndI always remind them, why don't

(22:37):
you remind me say, so you'regoing to display some of these
family portraits in your studioor in your in your business,
right? And they're like, What doyou mean, I said, Well, your
business can buy these. And youcan, you know, write it off in
your business. And because itis, you know, you're promoting
your marketing, that you're afamily person that this is our

(22:58):
family. And so really, if theydisplay these in their in their
place of business, which helpsus to, they can use it as a
write off on their business aswell. So make sure you mention
that because it might attractmore the small business owners
in your area as well.

Unknown (23:13):
That's a great idea. I like that idea a lot.

So what's the number one mistake that many
newer photographers or evenphotographers who have been
around for a while, what's thenumber one mistake they make
when it comes to sales?

Unknown (23:29):
Oh, gosh, number one, because
I think, you know, the challengethat I see most of them facing
is not valuing themselves, andbasing their cost or their
pricing or their sales model onother people in their area. Like

(23:49):
that is it kills me or, youknow, I mean, and obviously, I
hear a lot of, especially fromCarl like, well in my area, but
it's you know, but you can sellyou can really sell anywhere.
And I know photographers who arein tiny, depressed towns who
still do really well with sales,you know, they may get there the
majority of their clients fromyou know, the town 3030 minutes

(24:11):
or an hour away, but they can doreally well. But yeah, I think I
think looking at theircompetition and saying, Oh,
well, all these people in myarea are doing this. So I can't
be more expensive than them, youknow, they're good. They're, you
know, whatever. And they're allselling for $200 for a session
with a file. So that's what Ihave to do too. So I think not

(24:32):
valuing you know, because it'swe offer so much more than just
the session and the files andjust you know, a quick shoot I
mean, I'm you know, I put a lotmore effort into my clients but
I also only have to shoot 40 peryear to be able to make a good
living with it. And so the way Ilook at it, you know, I'm, you
know, I'm a lot more expensive,but as long as I have people

(24:53):
knocking on my door, I'm doingsomething right, you know, so
and I still have clients linedup and even though he had Even a
time like this when people wouldyou know, everybody's like, oh,
no COVID Do I have to drop myprices? You know, do I need to?
And no, I mean, I didn't makeany changes at all. And so I
think, I think just comparingyourself to other people,

(25:14):
especially because you don'tknow if those other people are
even profitable, nine exam arts,so you can compare your cost of
doing business is going to bedifferent, your you know,
they're not profitable, youdon't want to follow their sales
model and you don't know andeven if you ask them 90% of the
time, they either don't knowthey're not profitable, or
they're not going to admit thatthey're not profitable. So, like
stop basing your business onother people's businesses.

So let's get back to this building thing,
Jen. So what else can you tellus about that? Because I think
that's intriguing.

Unknown (25:43):
Uh, yeah, it's a it's a pretty cool space. The Bay where
they used to work on the cars, Iguess it's like, my entire
studio could fit just in thatpart. So it's a pretty cool
space. Um, I walked across thestreet to meet a business owner.
Um, that was that was across thestreet. She was a friend of my

(26:04):
friend that was with me. So wewalked over there and started
chatting with her. And we weretelling her that I was looking
at the building. And she said,Oh, you're looking at the the
old service station. She saidthat guy that was in there
before. He was a guy from upnorth. And he was a
counterfeiter. And apparently,like, he took off in the middle

(26:26):
of the night like disappeared,he left behind the printers, the
plates to print the money sheetsof uncut $20 bills, and like
level three,

get your 25 and that's where you get your money.
Jen, got your answer rightthere. That's what,

Unknown (26:40):
that's what Dan said.
I'm like, I'm gonna have to goopen up all the walls and
everything and see if he leftany souvenirs behind. But uh,
yeah, apparently the FBI andwhoever like what other
detectives and stuff they werelike all over that building
after he disappeared and theystill have not found him.

So he's in Mexico. He's living a good life.

Unknown (27:00):
Yeah, he's not in the US anymore. I guarantee that
but,

man, Dan keeps talking about like, what's that?
Was that beach again?
Chupacabra? Is that the beach or

say water? Nao? I think that's what you're talking
about. The beach from the movie

about the stuff or the stuff

for the place for them to jail and he broke out
and he went there and

Dan, Yeah, you did. You did? You did? Yeah.
You're just making

Shawshank Redemption. Thank you for
watching our last episode formore details about the Shawshank
Redemption.

Well, listen, we do flashbacks. Yeah, we bring
it all back. So

maybe if the EPA does come it might actually be a
benefit. It's gonna cost youlike 20 grand to remove this
oil, but they're gonna find youknow, who knows, you know,
dollars.

Some remains of bodies or something. Right?

Unknown (28:06):
My fear is that like, somebody is coming after him.
And they're gonna show up andI'm gonna be in the studio and
be like, I swear, I don't know.
I don't know where the money ishidden. But yeah. Pretty crazy
story though. Like, I'm like,that's kind of cool. It's a
little scary, but it's kind ofcool. So

boskie

Unknown (28:28):
they had the they had the windows like they had
sprayed that fog stuff on thewindows and everything so people
couldn't see in and so you cantell they've been like working
on scraping all that off. So

so but by no most people in the neighborhood know
about that a?

Unknown (28:43):
Yeah, I guess so. The lady across the street. There's
not like a lot of it's kind ofit's downtown, but it's on a
street that doesn't have a ton.
There's like one building acrossthe street like caddy corner
that has like maybe threebusinesses in it. And that's
about it. Like right immediatelyright there. Everything else is
at least couple blocks down so

you should was it play out? That was the previous
owner's name Frank Abigail.

Unknown (29:13):
I don't I don't know.
Dan, let me look that up foryou. Who is that?
You guys I don't watch anything.

It's from it's a movie quotes. Yeah, movie
reference. I should say thatmovie. The crappy Oh, and Oh,
what's this? Tom Hanks TomHanks.

Unknown (29:36):
Thanks. Yeah,

yeah. Catch me. If you can. Yes. Yeah.

But no, seriously, I would I would really play off
of that a little bit and say,you know, because everyone
thought your nose there was acounterfeiter there. You should
name your studio like the realdeal or something like that. You
know, this is a real thing. Imean, it would be a play. I
mean, if I see if you can findphotographs of if you still if
the if the money if the placeYou're still on there the
printing machines take picturesof them and post those

Unknown (30:06):
Yeah, sure took all that stuff away. Well as

well, instead of having your striped wall you're
gonna have a wall which is like20s in the hundreds place
plaster

Unknown (30:18):
money bank.

I can make you some some overlays, like my
music sheets are the money's

Unknown (30:25):
like with money like the ceiling.
Yeah.

Cool.

Instead of Giveaways camera dress we can do
hundred dollar bill dress.

Unknown (30:37):
Yeah.
She don't normally finance that.

Yeah, I'll get right on that. Pants. You know,
it's in the pockets. Hurricanecannon? Yeah, we have all kinds
of stuff. It's like a you everyweek, Dan usually is the one
that creates new words andstuff. But Jen, I gotta ask you.
I know you. First of all youreferenced up north. And I'm

(31:03):
like, Yeah. What are you? Thereis no up north in North
Carolina. First of all, andsecond of all, catty corner.
caddy corner or kitty corner. Doyou mean it's like diagonal
across the street? That's kittycorner night. I mean, we say
kitty corner don't we guys?
caddy corner.

I have heard caddy corner. I mean you say side by
each? I do. So side by side.

Unknown (31:31):
Water bubbler or side by each fountain.

See, there you go.
Okay.

It's a water bubbler in Wisconsin because the
original maker call it that it'skind of like Coca Cola is a
brand or a Tommy next. Yeah.
Zero. No, no, I pop. It's a it'slike a brand name. Oh, brand
name. Yeah. Yeah. So inWisconsin is one of the only
places where you hear bubbler,bubbler. Yeah. And everyone else

(32:00):
is like what? bubbler what

it's a waterphone.
You know it drink some h2o.
That's the thing.

Quality at

Unknown (32:11):
speaking.

He was from North Carolina was me. Anyway,
um, this is the time when we doour guest appearance

sales. I don't know where we're talking about.

word association. Oh, yeah. So we go

forth tangent we got tend to go. Oh, yeah.

So with every guest we do word association. So
I throw a word out at you. Andyou tell us what it means to
you. Ready? Moscato.

Unknown (32:40):
The best wine ever.

All right, Michigan. Oh,

Unknown (32:51):
I guess the look on my face.

She looked she looked very happy for those.

If you don't know by now, Jen is a graduate of

Unknown (33:06):
the Oh, are you a graduate from the night I
was gonna correct.

While she attended,

Unknown (33:17):
I attended, I did not graduate. I got kicked out

at a girl.

Unknown (33:24):
Not to my father's dismay, I got kicked out. So
yeah,

so why why Ohio State.

Unknown (33:32):
Um, I was I graduated from high school. When I was
living in England. My dad wasAir Force. And so we were in
England and I started collegeover there on the Air Force
Base. They had like a Universityof Maryland had a division there
on the Air Force Base. So youcould take classes on base. And
I did that. And then when my dadgot stationed back in the
States, we ended up in Ohio. Andhe said, You need to pick a

(33:56):
college. And I was like, Ididn't want to go to the one in
town. And Dayton because it wastoo close to home. I didn't want
to live at home. I wanted anexcuse to move away and go like
live in a dorm. So I was likeI've heard of Ohio State. I was
like that's literally how Ipicked the school. And but you

(34:17):
can't attend Ohio State and notbecome a huge fan of their
sports teams. And I likefootball and stuff anyway, so
I've always been into sports butyou can't go there and not and
not just you just kind of falland all that so so yeah, became
a huge fan. I went there whenEddie George was in school there
and Orlando pace and yeah, wehad some we had some talented

(34:40):
guys on the team for sure.

So you're a big Buckeye fan.

Unknown (34:47):
That's how you pronounce it.
So close.
Okay, but yeah, next good stuff.

Next word, Gator.

Unknown (34:56):
Gross.

Okay, next word. Jordan. Your best friend
Jordan. Oh, that's took

Unknown (35:08):
me a minute. You guys say a different name every
single time. Oh, Joshua. Dancalls him Jared.
Jared. Oh, Tara. Like,wow, that's funny.

Okay, last one.
Thin Mints.

Unknown (35:25):
Oh, they are the best.
My favorite.

Yeah. You have a Girl Scout hookup down there.
Um

Unknown (35:33):
that sounds so creepy when you say

can't disagree with her there guys that did some
pretty creepy.

Unknown (35:44):
Thank you. I was like you
are the bomb. You must have beenon my main den page on my
website. You

know, I'm not there, right? Yeah.

When I worked at Martini bar, we had a drink
called the dirty girl scout,which is Yeah,

that's, that's worse than what I said.

Yeah, it is. It was it was popular drink.

Unknown (36:14):
So there was

in the man's cream vodka crushed up, like chocolate
Oreos on the rim? Yeah. Oh, wow.

Unknown (36:23):
That sounds amazing.
You should make that for me nexttime I see you. Um, there is
like, there was a guy. When Iworked at one of my old jobs.
When I was working in a callcenter. There was a guy there
that told me one time he said,and he was okay. I should
preface by saying he was shorterthan me. You know, pretty

(36:45):
overweight, you know, that kindof thing. And he was like, I
have the body of a supermodeland I was like, okay, and he was
like, I keep it in my freezer.
The same again. I'm like, he'dalways creeped me out before but
when he said that, and he justwalks away. And I'm like, know

(37:08):
if I should report this. Or, orwhat? Anyway, so yeah, there you
go. Whoa, Michael. I can tell.

We live in the land of Jeffrey Dahmer. So

Unknown (37:22):
he went to my car wash

it in the freezer?

Exactly. It says in the freezer, it's still fresh. A
jenica question for you. What?
Why? How did you? Where did youcome up with sales? I mean,
where did you learn sales?
What's your background fromthat? Because did you get it
from Ohio? It was it was a Dan.
Hello, Dan.

Unknown (37:44):
everything I know about everything in life that's
valuable came from Dan Frievalt.
So

but but not directly. She took everything I
did and did the opposite of

Unknown (37:56):
actually, that's true.
It works better. What can I say?
Uh, yeah, I guess. Um, so Ithink a lot of it, um, came as
far as like, wanting to, youknow, learn more. And when I
started teaching, it was becauseI wanted to be somebody that I

(38:18):
didn't have when I was learningeverything. And I like giving
people the cliffnotes like,Don't make all the dumb mistakes
I made just do this. And it'sgoing to work, you know, and I
wish I'd had somebody who couldhave taught me that and convince
me of that when I was startingout. But it's been a passion of
mine, because I started out 13years ago, shooting burning for

(38:40):
$55 a session,

I was just gonna ask you, what was your
pricing back then? So that's thelesson for everybody. You know,
we all started Wow, I don't knowif all of us did, but I started
pretty cheap. You started cheap.
So how do we get what we getnow? We figured crap out. And we
raise the price, right?

Unknown (38:58):
Yeah. I mean, you either burn out or you figure it
out. And so we figured it out.
You know? Because like it didn'tyou know, I was my kids were a
little then. So my, my youngestis 14. So he was a year old when
I started my business. And youknow, my other boys are 18 to
19. So they were young and I wasmissing soccer games and missing
time with them and

all that.
That's okay. That's actuallyokay. soccer games.

Unknown (39:28):
I used to love watching them play soccer. My oldest
though he got embarrassedbecause I would always yell at
him when he was like, go Jake,and he's like, Mom, please just
shut up.

That's okay. My wife always yells at the kids.

Unknown (39:41):
My baby.

Oh gosh. Oh my gosh, like sit other places in
the bleachers have

Unknown (39:47):
Yeah, I would have to my gosh, that's funny. Um, but
yeah, I think, you know, youkind of figure out that you're
not making anything so Iremember being like going from
55 to $75 for a session. Theybeing scared to death that
people wouldn't think I wasworth it. And you know, that
kind of thing. And, you know,went from that to 100. And then
you know, 125. And every singletime I made those tiny jumps

(40:10):
that seemed ridiculous. Now, Iwas terrified that it wasn't
going to work that people weregoing to stop booking me that,
you know, because there's alwayssomebody who will do it cheaper,
even when you're $55, orsomebody will do it cheaper. And
when you're in that kind ofprice range, people are booking
you, they're not booking you,because of the experience you
give them. They're not bookingyou, even for your talent,

(40:30):
they're booking you becauseyou're cheap. And they might be
booking you because you'redecent, and you're cheap, but
they're booking you becauseyou're cheap. And so if somebody
comes along who's you know, gotthe same skill level, and there
are $20 cheaper, they're gonnago book them, like they're, you
know, their Bay, they're bookingbased on price alone. So I was
always nervous and ended up atan after dark and took a class

(40:53):
with David and Whitney Scott.
And I, that changed my life,like, I went home, and at the
time I was doing, I was doing350. So it was like $75 for a
session, and they could buy theCD for 350. Or they could order
from my online gallery, whichthey never did. And if they did,
they spent like $85. So myaverage is 350. Because most of
them got the CD at that point.

(41:15):
And so I went and took thisclass on in person sales, and I
honestly didn't know anythingabout it. Um, everybody I knew
were selling digital images,everybody, I didn't know anybody
who was doing in person sales.
So I went and sat in this class,because it talked about being
able to make more money. Andthat always sounds good. And I
didn't do just like what Dan, Ido, like,

you and two other people were in that class. Why?
While 50 other people werewatching this? Yeah. Cuz that
was the sexy part. Right?

Unknown (41:48):
Yeah, it was a very small class. That is true, for
sure. But the but you know, Idid the same thing with you
know, that I did a few yearsback with Dan, I learned from
them. And then I did thingsdifferent, because I felt like
you know, what would fit mebetter or whatever. So for one
you don't always have now thereare some parts and sales that
are really important that you dothe same. You know, there are

(42:10):
certain things but like, youknow, Dan is successful a sales,
I'm successful a sales, we don'tdo it the same way. So it
doesn't have to it can be whatfits you and your clients and
everything better. But there arecertain things and whenever I
teach about it, I always pointout like now this part you have
to do just like this, or it'snot going to work. You know,
this part you have to do justlike this. The other stuff you
can tweak, you know, you cantweak your prices a little bit,

(42:32):
you can tweak what products youoffer, you know you can do,
there are a couple things youcan do differently. But some of
the processes are stuff thathave to stay there.

Yeah. Speaking of which, what do you feel? Like if
someone? What would be thenumber one tip that people
that's a fail? Like a fail safe?
Number one thing you wouldrecommend that would instantly
increase their sales? overnight?
put you on the spot? BecauseYeah, I always say

Unknown (43:05):
I mean, increasing the sales overnight.
I think I think a lot of it iswhen I jumped from like 25, I
was at 2300 or so sales average.
And then my sales averageimmediately went up to about
4000. When I realized I was notthe products that I was selling

(43:28):
at the prices I was selling themat, I was not going to be able
to hit a higher sales averagebecause they could get
everything they wanted for20 $300. Why are they going to
spend more, so you have to makesure that you are charging. And
you know, because people arelike I was like I know people
get four or $5,000 averages. ButI didn't know why I wasn't. And

(43:48):
a friend of mine who's not evena photographer is the one that
said, well, when they spend20 $300. What are they getting?
I'm like, wow, they get, youknow, an album, they get
Walmart, and then they get someprints. And he's like, well,
where are they going to spendmore than 2300 then, and I'm
like, Oh, so I added productsthat I wasn't offering before
which actually at the time itwas digital images, not that I
wasn't offering them but I addedthem in a different way to make

(44:10):
them more appealing. And so Iadded the digital images and I
raised my prices across theboard. And my sales average
immediately went from 2300 ishto 4000 with it I mean like
every sales session after thatwas over 2300 just about so

I think you've got a shorter answer

Unknown (44:34):
that nothing I say is ever short.
I say that on the radio What arewe

just like being on cable TV, you know?

And and not that that isn't a great tip that is
and but some people listeningmight be Oh, I die for a 20 $300
average. So you're thinkingbigger, which is good and where
you were at that

Unknown (44:57):
and that can apply No matter if they're if they're
trying to go from you know havepeople come to me for the like
one on one mentoring and they'relike, you know, my sales average
is only, you know, $600, what doI do so it doesn't matter where
your sales averages you have tomake sure. Client education is
number one for me, you have toeducate your client from the
very first time they find you,before they even contact you. If

(45:18):
they find you on social media.
If you go on my social mediaright now, if you go on my
Instagram, you guys are busy. Sodon't go on there yet. But if
you go on my Instagram and lookat my Instagram stories, you'll
see now I have client orderpickup today. And I have
pictures of my clients lookingthrough their albums and my you
know, my girl that bought theygot an album and four pieces of
wall art. And you see herholding her Waller in for all
four pieces and looking throughher album. So I'm constantly

(45:41):
educating my clients on productsand the value of products and
that kind of thing, even wheneven the stuff that they'll find
before they ever contact me. Andthen if they go to my website,
they're gonna see all the stuffI have on there about products.
If they talk to a client, myclient is not going to say, Oh,
look at these Digital's she'sgoing to say look at this wall
art, look at this album, thatkind of thing. So no matter how

(46:04):
they find me, they know I'm allabout, you know, printed
products. And then every step ofthe process is also all about
that, Dan, I'm sorry, I'm nevershort winded, you know that for
long enough to know that.

I was just gonna say if you're doing an online
gallery, or digital files, ifyou switch to in person sales,
that will that's one of the keysand like, and there's very few
things I guarantee or be like,Hey, this is gonna double your
sales overnight. Like thatalways sounds like oh, blah,
blah, blah or fishy or salesy,but it is like that, in person

(46:42):
sales, like you said, no one wasdoing that. And then you you
implement a minute you implementsomething like that, you take
away, so many of their excusesnot to purchase, and you're
there helping them through theprocess, and the excitement is
there. And like you said, a lotof people are like, well, I
would kill for a $5,000 average,when you look at their products

(47:02):
and what they're offering, it'slike they could buy everything
in the house and only be at$1,000. Well, how are you ever
gonna get a $5,000? You willaverage and or if you have
packages, like you have setpackages? Well, most people,
human nature is gonna kind of goin the middle, you know. So if
you have packages, which I don'trecommend, but we won't get into

(47:24):
that, if packages work, butmaybe, maybe you just add two
more packages that are theWhopper items all sudden, you
have a $10,000 package. Wellguess what? Now people are gonna
kind of go a little bit lower inyour average is gonna increase
just by adding, like, I haveproducts that no one ever buys.

(47:46):
But guess what? They look at itand be like, someone must get
that. It's this and I shouldn'tsay no one ever buys because
every couple years, somebodybuys it. And I bought fall off
my chair. I'm like, Whoa, okay,let

Unknown (47:58):
me know if I can still.
Yeah. Okay.
Going off of my, my productsmany the other day, because I
had a client came who came inand was like, Oh my gosh, I love
that. And I only sold them maybeonce a year. And anyway, I am. I
was pulling it up on the websitelater for something and they're

(48:19):
gone. And I was like, Oh, Ican't even get it anymore. So
anyway, she hadn't ordered ityet. She was in for a consult.
But I was like, oh, man, so andthat was the big one that I
didn't sell very often. But, um,but yeah, I totally agree with
you, Dan. So that was a hugechange. For me going home, I
went home from afterdark. I hada client who knew she could buy
the CD for 350 or order online.
And I got home and I called herand I said, Hey, Kathy, I want

(48:41):
to let you know your images areready, because that was back
when I was still retouchingeverything before they saw them.
And I said your images areready, I can go ahead and put
them on an online gallery, likeyou know, like we talked about,
or if you'd prefer someassistance in ordering, you're
welcome to come over. And we cango through them together and I
can help you with your order.
And she was like, Oh, you woulddo that. Okay, that sounds

(49:04):
great. And I'm like, All right.
So she came over. And because Ihad a cup, I didn't have a lot.
I didn't have any clients samplework. But I had pictures of my
kids on my wall. So I had acanvas and like a fine art metal
mural, which is the thing that Ijust lost, being able to order
and then like a couple mountedprints of my own kids in my
living room. She came to myhouse. I didn't have a studio. I

(49:26):
hear that a lot too. You know,like, Oh, well, I don't have a
studio and there's so manyoptions besides having a studio
but I did it for three yearswithout a studio. But she you
know, so we went through I wasshowing her she was able to see
the couple of things that I hadof my kids on the walls and
sizes and things like that. Andher order was 1100 and $50. And
this is coming straight out of350 for every single sale and

(49:48):
she spent 1100 and 50 and myfirst thought was as my daddy
would say she's got more moneythan she's got sense and you
know, she must just be rich orsomething. I was like, but it
intrigued me enough to do itagain. So I did that with my
next two clients who Iphotographed all of them before
I'd left for that conference.
And so they all knew theiroptions. And I said the exact

(50:11):
same thing to all of them. Mynext two sales were 1550 and
1850. And I nearly died. I waslike, I don't know what's going
on. But I like it. And then itjust kind of went from there. I
mean, it's amazing. But Dan'sexactly right, just doing things
in person when you're there toguide them. And I think so many
people I hear so often like, butI'm not a salesperson, I'm not

(50:32):
good at sales. I don't want tobe like that greasy used car
salesman, sorry, if any used carsalesmen are listening. But like
people don't want to, you know,they don't want to feel like a
hard You know, hard pushsalesperson. So, but I'm like,
we're not salespeople. I'm not asalesperson. I know whenever I
say that, nobody believes me.
But I'm not I am the expert, Iam the guidance. If I'm going to
remodel a kitchen, I'm not gonnajust go on like diy.com and

(50:56):
start ordering random kitcabinets and countertops. I
don't know jack about thatstuff. I want to sit down with
somebody who can say, Oh, youlike this, then this is the kind
you're like, oh, then you'reprobably going to want this
height, this will fit in yourhome really well. That's what
we're looking for. And that'swho we're supposed to be. So
we're the expert guiding themthrough this process. We are not
salespeople, I don't look atthat guy helping me pick stuff

(51:19):
out from my kitchen and thinkman, he must be making a
killing. I'm like, thank you forhelping me because I didn't know
jack about remodeling kitchens.
And I couldn't have done this onmy own and you know, made it
look as good at the end. So thatis what we are two people, we
have to remember, for ourclients, this is an extra
service we're providing this isnot just about us trying to like

(51:40):
make more money and gouge ourclients on every penny they
have, which is you know, a lotof people who are starting out
their shooting burn, and theyhear what kind of, you know,
money I bring in for sales.
That's what they assume they'relike, Oh, my gosh, you're just
ripping your clients off. And,and I'm like, No, I am working
my butt off to provide anamazing experience for them. And
you know, and then I take careof everything for them. And they

(52:01):
hug me for it. And they tell meThank you. And it's the best job
ever.

So so for. So for people who don't have a
studio, or they work from home,and they don't really have a
space or now in the time ofCOVID where they don't want
people may be coming into theirhome for an hour or two to do an
IPS. What can people do? I know,well, there's plenty out there.

Unknown (52:27):
If they if they don't want to, because of COVID you'll
have to ask Michael about doingzoom appointments, I am an in
person person. I am. I'm notscared of anything. So I just
keep going about I mean, I haveone person in here at a time or
one family in here at a time. Idon't sweat that because I'm
really low volume. But as far asjust not having a space. Again,
I worked out in my living roomfor the first three years once

(52:50):
and it actually really took thatlong before I started building
up to where somebody wasn't afriend of a friend where I felt
fairly comfortable having themin my home so that you know,
after you get outside of youryou know, two circles deep or
something, you're going to wantto be meeting them in a public
place don't just invite allkinds of random strangers, but
everybody who booked me for thatfirst couple of years was a

(53:11):
friend of a friend you know, atmost, and so I felt safe doing
that. So I did them in my homefor the for the first few years.
And but when I started gettingoutside of that circle, I would
meet them at a coffee shop, Iwould meet them in a hotel lobby
if you have a friend who has asmall business that maybe has
some sort of a backroom or ameeting room or room they don't

(53:32):
use very often or anything likethat barter with them, you know
offer to do some promotionalphotos for them and exchange for
letting you know use their spaceyou know to meet with them they
don't need you don't need a lotof space for a meeting room.
Showing them those productsthough is super important. So
that's why I'm so big on inperson because I want them to
not just see the products I alsowant them to be able to feel

(53:54):
them feeling the weight of myalbums is a huge huge seller. So
anytime that they feel theweight of the albums I have this
thing that I do when the kidsare sitting in there my it's
usually like you know a littletiny senior girls and they're
like sitting in there and I holdthe album because I have like
the big album my next album is a15 by 10 and it's got the custom

(54:15):
metal cover on it and I'll justhold it just like three inches
above their lap and drop it alittle bit of an impact there
don't tell people I do that. Butyou know I'll just do that and
I'm like oh careful Lindsay thatalbums heavier than you are
that's all it takes because theygo oh wow this is heavy. Oh wow.
These pages are thick. It's justenough to make them notice. I

(54:36):
never heard them I haven'tinjured anybody no bruises or
anything you know, just a coupleinches. But like the impact of
the way of that album they knowit's not you know, other cheap

company. You've probably never seen my wedding
sample album my head made thenit's 16 by 20 Wow. 25 pounds.

It comes with a wheelbarrow Yeah.

coffee table book. That could be a coffee
table. Yeah. Oh,

Unknown (55:05):
my gosh.

There's a Seinfeld reference right there.

I told you he was wacky,

wacky. So here's one for you. You just talked
about, we need to educate theclients and in sales. I'm, we're
old. I'm old. I've been inbusiness for a long time. And
before I was, I was with otherstudios that were really old. So

(55:32):
in person is all I've everknown. You know, there was no
such thing as you know, do anonline because there was no
online back then. So, I know I'mold

electricity back then.

Yeah, I mean, we use gunpowder for flash. Yeah.
Yeah, they say optional. Yeah.
But, uh, so back to those days,even people would come in and
say, Well, you know, we want abig eight by 10 for our wall. So
it's been around forever. Butlike you said, until, until we

(56:05):
show it educate, they don'tknow. They just don't know, they
don't understand the fact thatthey purchased a Terry redlin
imprint from some, you know, NRAbanquet or something. And it's a
40 inch print behind theircoach, yet they want an eight by
10 or their kid and they can'tunderstand why, Oh, geez, how
come they're not the same? Well,because you're picking the wrong

(56:27):
size. But people just don't knowit, because they don't do it
every day. And that's why theincrease in sales is so
important. It's not that likeyou mentioned, and I absolutely
agree with you. We're not Imean, some people sell and we
kind of are selling to but wedon't, we don't have to sell our
work sells itself, if we justexplained what makes it best for
the person in their home. So aslong as

a guy does, and it doesn't matter, I'm gonna back
you up with this. And thenbecause there's gonna be a lot
of people making excuses like,Well, my backup isn't good
enough yet. Well, let me tellyou something, like, get get

Unknown (57:05):
Dan, when he sells his work. So

yeah, if they hired you, they're pre
qualified, they love you, or youwork, it doesn't matter what
your work is, they love you, andwhatever you show them and they
love their kids. So they'regonna buy from you don't think
your work isn't good enough?
Because they've right they'vealready invested in you. So
don't have that excuse. Andthen, you know, you just lead

(57:33):
them through the process like,like you guys are both saying or
if you there's so many greatsoftware's out there now, that
are essentially a salesperson,because they are showing sizes
and showing things on walls andshowing clusters and helping put
images side by each card. Thereyou go. I was gonna say side by
side, or if the woman's caddycorner from Yeah, can you hear

(57:57):
the corner? This one and thisone and put those side by each?
You know? Yeah. And if you getthirsty, I have a bubbler in the
in the studio. Oh, yeah. Fordrink.

We'll never know because of COVID. But we have
bottled water because of it. So

Oh, yeah. The bubbler shut

down the bypass.
No. Yeah, yeah. But that's justit. And you know what, the funny
thing about that, like you said,the software, then it even add
more to that. It's it's almostlike a crutch in that the guest
is always would say, Well, whatcan we do this? And this instead
of this? Let me see. Well, no,because see right here,
according to this my price menu,because like I said, we're

(58:39):
educated based on what we wantpeople to do. Well, seeing the
menu here, it says we can onlydo this. So guide your guests,
where you want to go with rulesor with the software, the
software says QuickBooks says wecan't do this, it has to be
ordered in pairs or whatever, Idon't know. But come up with you

(58:59):
know, find the rules and stickby the rules and use the rules
as part of your push towardswhere you want people to go.

Yeah, and I think that is another downfall that a
lot of creatives run into is youbuild this relationship you feel
like friends, and then you letpeople take advantage of you.
And I've done it, you know, I'mlike, okay, and you know, or,
you know, if you have packagesand I'm gonna jump on that
bandwagon. It's like I wassubstituting things all the
time. Yeah, so it's like thenawesome. They left them like oh

(59:33):
man, because I didn't know mydidn't know that information. Or
if I substitute this or that andrealize later Well, I just lost
money. Yeah, so doing like acreative collection or things. I
know what what everything costs,and this is why it goes
together. And here's youroptions and I can't substitute
because it's just, it's just notfair. Or if you want something

(59:55):
different. I have this option.
It's going to cost you more sothen prices, letting them
decide, okay, I'm going thisroute, you're not forcing them
into that route. They're makingthat decision on their own. So

Carl Caylor (01:00:08):
don't write. You'll love you play guitar and stuff.
I know you like guitars and alot of people out there are on
the guitar bandwagon becauseguitar sales are up. Absolutely
astronomical. Right now, I'vebeen hearing in all different
all the different brands, but Iwas looking at, over the years I
love, I can't play with thecrap, I love listening to
guitars. But I love a goodcraftsman. The craftsmanship of

(01:00:32):
a good guitar, I just like theartistic value of the product
itself. And so I was looking atlike Martin guitars and tailor
made and all that retailer. Andif you look at those, the
craftsmanship that goes intothose, and there's some that are
like, way above our pay grade,you know, 1012 $14,000 for a

(01:00:54):
guitar, and then there's somethat are still really nice, and
they're about 40 $200. And thenyou can go to the guitar sales
center or Supercenter and get atailor for or a Martin for 250
bucks. It's not the samecraftsmanship at all. But they
have those values. And Iguarantee you they saw more of

(01:01:16):
the 4200 than anything else.
Because they're getting thepeople that still want
craftsmanship still want the artof it and the quality level of
tailor. They can't afford the 12or $20,000 version. And they
don't want the $200 version. Andthat's the client same kind of
clientele that we're lookingfor. I mean, we're looking for

(01:01:37):
guests that can afforddiscretionary a luxury item,
like what we provide. And if youprice it at, you know too low,
then they're not going to wantyou anyhow.

Michael Mowbray (01:01:54):
Does anybody have to have senior portraits?

No, not anymore?

Dan Frievalt (01:01:59):
No, no. And I'm gonna back up what you said,
Carl, and something that Jensaid earlier about price. And,
you know, there's always goingto be someone less expensive,
yes, and don't get on socialmedia and look at that stuff and
get worked up. Number two isthere's always going to be
someone doesn't matter if youcharge $1 or $100, it's going to
say that, that you're tooexpensive. So again, you can't

(01:02:21):
get they just don't value it.
They could have you know, it'sfunny when I like talk to
mentors, or someone from otherindustries are like, Oh, you
should be here because there'sall you know, there's doctors
and there's these, these mediumincome is 500,000, blah, blah,
blah, what they don't understandis in our industry, it's not
about how much money you make iswhat value you put on that

(01:02:42):
luxury item. I we all had thatexperience someone pulls in they
have extremely expensive car,they well to do nice clothes,
everything is my lowest saleever, you know, someone else
rolls in and, and it's likethey're gonna save that rescue
pickup, they're saving, they'repaying, they're pulling cash

(01:03:02):
out, they're doing whatever theycan, because family is important
to them. And that's what weprovide. It's not about the
imagery, really. I mean, it doesmake our images is do you make
it? But it's the experience,like Jen was saying to that
really is what we're selling.
They know what we provide, howwe make them feel. like Michael

(01:03:24):
said, Do you really need sr?
Does anyone need seniorpictures? Yeah, I don't know.

So, Bob, time to wrap it up. Do you have any
parting shots? JOHN, anythoughts you want to leave
people with but keep it under 15minutes?

Unknown (01:03:39):
That's really challenging, Michael. I don't
know. Um, yeah, I think, youknow, I think the biggest thing
is, make the change, it doesn'tmatter exactly how you're doing
it, it doesn't matter if youdon't feel ready. But whether
it's changing from shootingburned in person sales, or you
know, or raising your prices, oryou know, looking for a mentor

(01:04:01):
can help you. They're worththeir weight in gold. And you
know, it's I think, you know,just jumping and I've always
been a jumper I've never been Idon't I mean, I second guessed
things, but it's after I'vealready done it. So I've never,
I don't hesitate. I don't thinkabout it a whole lot before I do
it. I'm like, you know, Hey, youknow what this is working for?

(01:04:23):
You know, Dan Frievalt like hejokes a lot about I did like he
and I talked sales for so long.
And then you know, I was doingsomething kind of similar to him
there for a while and then I waslike, This isn't working. This
is crap. I'm gonna change it.
The truth is it works for a lotof people. It works for Dan, it
works for a lot of people. Butthen, you know, I have a
different system that I'm supercomfortable with. And we still

(01:04:45):
talk and Dan learned stuff forme sometimes do. But it's you
know, he looked he looked really

he does he did we do we all learn. Well,

that's all for this week. Give me

your red hen and the grammar I learned a lot from
you for

Unknown (01:05:06):
all of your spelling, spelling

in the best. Wait real quick. The best is Karl ad
sync when he had the the Biblepassage is a typo. He goes,

Unknown (01:05:17):
I copied and pasted that I swear

Bible passage.

Unknown (01:05:30):
Oh,

that's the ultimate right there, folks.

So, every week we have a sponsor and this week,
we're sponsored by buffalo snotbeer from Mount Rushmore
brewing. The perfect blend ofhops malt in subtle esters on
the nose. Light bodied, crisp,clean and refreshing with a very
balanced finish. A common orlager like blonde Ale, designed

(01:05:54):
for balance in all respects. Nottoo sweet. Not too bitter. Not
too hoppy. Not too multi. Thisbeer will have you saying to
Tonka after three or four more.
Buffalo stop beer from MountRushmore Brewing Company. All
right. That's all for this week,guys, till next time, cheers to

(01:06:15):
you.

Cheers. Cheers.

Unknown (01:06:20):
Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.
That's a wrap last call.

You've been listening to the photo happy
hour podcast. Be sure to hitthat subscribe button to not
miss a single action packedepisode. And join our photo
happy hour Facebook group wherewe'll post links to the stuff we
all talk about. You can find myMoLight gear
online@www.molight.com that'sGio. Mo Li gh t calm. You can

(01:06:53):
find the Facebook page underMoLight store and I also run the
Godox flash help group onFacebook. You can find Dan SR
unlocked website at www dotseniors unlocked.com that
seniors with an S at the endunlocked.com and the Facebook
group under seniors unlocked andyou can find Carl's coaching
corner@www.cc photo coach commcc photo coach.com Till next

(01:07:19):
time, cheers to you.

Unknown (01:07:36):
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want.
If you want me to pay you tosubscribe, I can tell you I
don't have money. But what I dohave are a very particular set
of skills, skills I haveacquired over a very long career
skills that make me a nightmarefor people like you. If you

(01:07:58):
subscribe now, that won't be theend of it. I will not look for
you. I will not pursue you. Butif you don't, I will look for
you. I will find you and I willannoy you

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Jenn Lewis Interview: easy ways to increase your sales averages and much more

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

The Jenn Lewis Interview: easy ways to increase your sales averages and much more

On Purpose with Jay Shetty