October 27, 2020 • 53 mins
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To paraphrase the great philosopher PeeWee Herman, as solo photographers we are loners, Dottie. Rebels. Because most of us work on our own, it's even more important that we reach out to connect with other weird folks like us. That's where the power of the photography community can help. There are many opportunities to connect and share with like-minded folks, and learn from what others have done to grow and improve. This week we chat about this and how you really can't learn everything from YouTube. Of course we get sidetracked along the way -- Dan and Carl tell some killer Dad jokes. And we drop pop culture references like Game of Thrones, Shotskis, Seinfeld, BatDad, and John Denver.
Informative and entertaining, grab your favorite beverage and press "play". And don't forget to subscribe!
Here's your link to see what a Shotski is.
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Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com
Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com
Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner. Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Mowbray (00:07):
Recorded live from the parking lot of Walley
world. Sorry, folks, Parksclosed the moose off function.
It's the photo happy hourpodcast.
Hey, and welcome everybody comeon in and grab a seat at the
bar. I'm your photo happy hour.
bartender Michael Mowbray andI'm serving up some pumpkin
spice liqueur with a cinnamonswirl stick. Ooh, I'm so Anya.
(00:28):
Joining me behind the bar areDan Frievalt. And Carl Caylor.
Say guys.
Carl Caylor (00:35):
Hey, guys,
Dan Frievalt (00:37):
I'm exhausted.
Carl Caylor (00:39):
I chose especially on the eyes. Gotta keep them
open and open.
Unknown (00:45):
Yeah, it's October.
Oh.
Carl Caylor (00:49):
Oktoberfest a
Dan Frievalt (00:50):
Wait, wait, what?
How did it become October?
Alright.
Carl Caylor (00:56):
is just March a little bit ago?
Dan Frievalt (00:58):
We were just locked in the basement like two
days ago. Where is that
Michael Mowbray (01:02):
COVID thing over yet? No,
Carl Caylor (01:04):
no, no. It wasn't a COVID thing. It was all a dream.
It was just like, what was itdynasty or Dallas or whatever it
was that guy like die, but buthe came back next season because
it was all a dream.
Dan Frievalt (01:16):
This is remember that he was there. He was in a
coma?
Carl Caylor (01:19):
Yeah, or something like that. The whole thing was,
we're just dreaming this wholedarn thing. Nothing is really
wrong out there. So tomorrowmorning, we're gonna get up and
we're gonna go back to work likenormal and none of this crap
ever happened. I liked thatideal squat that
Michael Mowbray (01:31):
I've been kind of hoping because this is like
the one year anniversary of theending of Game of Thrones that
they're going to actually launchthe real final episode and just
announced that the other onewas, was hold on a dream.
Dan Frievalt (01:43):
Oh, yeah. Not tease me Don't
Unknown (01:48):
hold on.
Michael Mowbray (01:52):
About a year since you've heard that one.
Right? It is. Anyway, so in caseyou're joining us for the first
time, bless you. The premise ofthis podcast is we are three
professional photographers whohave been around for a while.
And we'd like to get togetherand have a I don't know, a drink
or seven. And when we drink, westart to talk about photography.
(02:17):
And the more we drink we Themore we know or think we do. And
this week we're talking aboutwhat the hell's decided we're
talking about community theimportance of community in
photography doubles. What do wemean? What do we mean? community
in beyond doing socials,
Dan Frievalt (02:33):
which is having a good group of friends that you
can do a shot ski with? Have wementioned a Schottky on this?
Yes, yeah, I think
Michael Mowbray (02:40):
we need to explain what a shot ski is.
Carl Caylor (02:43):
I got to post it on our Facebook. Mostly photo.
Dan Frievalt (02:47):
Schottky Is it a Wisconsin thing? Oh, sure. Well,
no,
Michael Mowbray (02:50):
we'll just claim it
Dan Frievalt (02:52):
will claim. I mean, it has to do with
drinking. It has to originate inWisconsin.
Michael Mowbray (02:58):
It's got a ski at the end. So I figured it's
got to be something
Dan Frievalt (03:03):
here too. Yeah. So you take it either. It's either
a water ski or snow ski and youhave shot glasses glued to it,
you know, anywhere from three tofive. I guess we have to make a
new one for social distancing,you know, yeah.
Michael Mowbray (03:18):
Cross Country skis.
Carl Caylor (03:21):
We'll use we'll use some of those ski jump skis.
They're long
Dan Frievalt (03:25):
jokes. That's it.
I was Yeah. Two by 10s. So youhave a couple of shot glasses
glued on your board full ofshots and everyone gets together
and 123 tip the sea shot ski upand you're down the shot and
there you have yourself a shotski. There you go.
Michael Mowbray (03:46):
Everybody's just gonna rush out to Amazon.
It is Amazon Prime Day whileit's recording this so
everybody's gonna go out toAmazon now and see if they can
buy a shot ski. Like you look atthinking about looking it up and
see if you look at it.
Dan Frievalt (04:00):
I'll give you an affiliate link to my shot ski on
Amazon. I wonder if
Michael Mowbray (04:06):
you guys keep talking. I'm gonna look it up.
Carl Caylor (04:08):
Just do the Google shot ski see if it actually
shows up.
Dan Frievalt (04:12):
Go to my Pinterest page. We'll show you how to make
your very own miljoen CHATZKYwith three easy steps.
Michael Mowbray (04:19):
Amazon as I started typing in shot ski and
it comes up shots keyboard withglasses. I'll be darned. Let me
see. I guess Guess what, whatguess what the first thing that
comes up is I'm going to shipit. I'm going to show it to you
guys made it was very first thegreen thing here. Hang on. You
see what that is? The leafblower it's
Carl Caylor (04:43):
Oh my gosh. There's so off. You saw
Michael Mowbray (04:48):
Oh, there we go. We've got a four person
drinking ski and the person andafford a four person Yeah. Wow.
Dan Frievalt (04:56):
It's called a drink in ski so like a shot
skis. Kind Like a bubbler, youknow, it's branded to what's got
Carl Caylor (05:03):
waterphone?
Dan Frievalt (05:04):
Well, it's branded to Wisconsin. That's true. The
leaf
Michael Mowbray (05:07):
blower was kitty corner away from the shot
ski
Carl Caylor (05:10):
caddy corner as
Michael Mowbray (05:12):
Jen said, anyway, you have to listen
ready.
Carl Caylor (05:17):
All the time on this, it's like a everlasting
cycle. So anyhow, network issociable. The reason we talk
about socials is because we werediscussing, we had a interview
with Angela kerugian, over thereat in the PPA headquarters. And,
and it's amazing how ourconversations about this
(05:38):
industry and even ourinvolvement in PPA or other
groups, and even how we met eachother, comes down to how strong
networking is in our industry,and how much that we are able to
lean on each other in thisindustry, and how it's sad that
some people that aren't part ofour groups, or their local
(06:00):
groups don't have thatopportunity. So we thought, hey,
let's make it a show. So let's,let's chat about that.
Dan Frievalt (06:10):
So that's the show. Great show everyone.
Thanks.
Michael Mowbray (06:12):
Good job, guys.
I feel real good about this one.
Carl Caylor (06:17):
Dan's after this, that's probably just networking.
Michael Mowbray (06:22):
So So if you've listened to a few of these,
you'll, you'll hear that we talkabout different conferences in
different organizations andsuch. And we're all big
believers in that kind ofnetworking, that kind of
learning environments, you know,hands on learning, which is
harder than time of COVID. But,you know, so some of the
(06:42):
conferences we talked about areimaging USA, which is one of the
biggest, if not the biggestphotography conference in the
United States. And that's put onby professional photographers of
America. And that's once a year,usually in January. And then,
you know, we've talked aboutsync, which is, I'm trying
remember what sync stands forsenior youth national
(07:04):
conference,
Dan Frievalt (07:05):
National Conference, and
Michael Mowbray (07:06):
yeah, but it's primarily primarily a senior
photography conference. But youknow, they talk about newborns
and families and stuff, too. Andthat's typically in Florida in
February or March. But there aretons of conferences, if you're
not aware of this, there aretons of conferences around the
country, your state might haveone, your region probably has
(07:27):
one. There are national ones.
And that's where folks like us,we'd like to go hang out and
just talk to other people likeus. I mean, if nothing else, if
we're not, you know, we're notnecessarily learning something,
we're they're just talking toother people who are like us,
and we highly recommend doingthat. Because, yeah, sometimes
your spouse or your significantsignificant other your family
(07:49):
don't really get what it meansto be a photographer. And it's
nice to you know, hang out witha group before other people or
five or 10 or whatever, thatthey're all kind of like you
they all kind of weird like you,you know. You can say aperture
and they know what you'retalking about.
Dan Frievalt (08:11):
You can be you can be eating lunch in this and you
know, awesome like, Oh my Godlook at the light over there on
that person and everyone getsit. It doesn't sound creepy at
all.
Michael Mowbray (08:23):
You'll be you know, like the hotel restaurant
for a conference you saysomething like that. Obviously
you see everybody prairie dogall the heads pop up.
Unknown (08:29):
Yeah. Squirrel.
Dan Frievalt (08:32):
Except right, whichever. I'll never forget the
one time we went It was afterdark in Kansas City and a big
group of us went out to a famousbarbecue place was it's just
kind of a hole in the wall divebar place and we all went we got
ribs and brisket and all thisstuff, you know, and then went
there must have been a good 15of us. We all get our food.
(08:52):
We're all sitting down andeveryone is taking pictures like
get this picture. Get thispicture. Get a picture of us.
Oh, well you guys Hurry up. Iwant to eat my ribs already.
salivating here I've beenworking I've been working all
week long for this and it's likeonly when a group of
photographers used to wait ahalf an hour where everyone gets
their pictures in the lightingset just right before now we can
(09:14):
knock out food Yeah, it's cold
Michael Mowbray (09:17):
well can you guys turn the light on on your
phone and just hold her overhere? I want to skip over the
back of the brisket
Carl Caylor (09:22):
done that many times. In fact is there a call
Michael? Yeah to do thatNashville before I can have my
drink
Unknown (09:28):
young
Michael Mowbray (09:30):
bottle or whatever it was? No, I had a
pretty drink that was that goodrocks place place yeah, dog or
whatever the whole thing wascalled. And my drink was pretty
so we had a lighter properly.
Carl Caylor (09:44):
Yeah, yeah. So I just I just looked at a sink is
in March this this coming yearto one March 5 to the eighth.
Hopefully it's in person. That'sthe only thing that we really do
push. Virtual things are greatin between, but it's so so
important. For us to be inperson at a conferences, you
(10:04):
just don't learn as much ordon't get to know people as
much. Of course, we're differentbecause, you know, the podcast
is that we, we all know eachother, we're very transparent.
That's why the podcast works sowell. But, but in general,
though, you're so much betteroff to be able to get to know
people more and bounce ideas offeach other. And, you know, it's
(10:26):
the things that we hear betweenthe comments and between the
ideas that I think are asimportant as the ideas
themselves. Yeah. Or we learnthe speakers, you know?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Dan Frievalt (10:40):
And before I forget, if I can interrupt just
a second is, I want to throwout, like, my tip for
conferences is to it. Like whenyou go to a bunch of
conferences, next we have, it'seasy to get together with the
same group of people in a, go tolunch and go to dinner and
everything, try and expand thata little bit and go out with a
(11:00):
different group. I know, it'slike, it's nice to meet up with
the friends you've made. Butgoing with different group and
getting around different people,you're going to get a little bit
different points of view, youknow, as well, and also invite
people or just invite someonethat's new and say, Hey, you
want to why don't you come tolunch with us? And they really,
it's like, heck, yeah, like, youknow, you know, welcome them in.
(11:21):
Because, you know, if you go tosomething and you're brand new,
it's very intimidating, becauseit may seem like there's a bunch
of clicks, but it's because allof us We haven't seen each other
in so long and we've become goodfriends because we've gone year
after year, so we want to gettogether and hang out. It
doesn't mean we want to excludeanyone. You know if anyone ever
(11:42):
asks us well, like heck yeah,jump in with us. Or it's like
we're invite people like go outof our way to invite people
because I know how that is. Itcan be intimidating. And we're
not intimidating people. JustYeah, you just might have to buy
us drinks
Michael Mowbray (11:58):
that's a monster. Yeah,
Carl Caylor (11:59):
the shotgun shotgun together
Dan Frievalt (12:03):
at the at the end of law. Yeah. The bill who's got
the this the new guys got thetab.
Michael Mowbray (12:12):
It's like the old Seinfeld thing. It's like
you You order all this food youeat all this food in and then
you're you're full and then theybring the check and you're like,
why am I paying for this? Ialready ate it all.
Carl Caylor (12:24):
It's gone. Through this. It wasn't really here.
Michael Mowbray (12:29):
We got the Gator bites. Jen knows that you
Jen. Jen.
Unknown (12:34):
Jen. Jen, they broke up. Did you
Michael Mowbray (12:37):
see that? What total total side tangent here.
That dad. You know whose? Dad?
They got divorced. Wow. Oh, no,I just I ran across this. Doing
some deep research on somethingreally important. Otherwise
known as mindless scrolling. Ibelieve late at night going oh
(12:58):
my god, we're all gonna die. AndI saw that I found out the bad
dad and Jen got divorced. And Iguess they're staying friendly.
But Wow. Well,
Dan Frievalt (13:10):
yes. Too bad. Was Robin. It was Robin involved
there. They weren't.
Michael Mowbray (13:15):
They weren't saying but okay. Okay. We
Carl Caylor (13:19):
you guys realize we missed something. This episode
already.
Michael Mowbray (13:23):
Set. What are we drinking? While you're
drinking the same damn thing allthe time. So I just quit
Carl Caylor (13:29):
drinking beer today. Oh, wedding and whiskey
because I figured I would runout of whiskey. Will you make a
Dan Frievalt (13:37):
double fist in it?
Carl Caylor (13:38):
It's serious. I'm leaning on one arm and just
setting the glasses down inbetween. So we're taking turns.
Because you know, why not? Dan?
Oh, I see. You have some winethere.
Dan Frievalt (13:49):
Zinfandel for me.
Yes. Yeah.
Michael Mowbray (13:52):
This is the last of the 10 year old euro.
scotch just tried for the firsttime. Wow. The bottle was the
first time I've had insurerscotches. I've tried this a few
times now.
Carl Caylor (14:04):
So did you use real ice or your rock stuff this
time?
Michael Mowbray (14:07):
No, there's no ice that's straight. It's cool
enough. I don't need any ice.
Well, it is October 8. Neat.
Clean. Yes. But the only thingyou may be do sometimes is put a
little drop of water or justspin it. There we go. Perfect.
Carl Caylor (14:23):
Nobody knows your own because no one else is gonna
drink it.
Michael Mowbray (14:26):
Yeah, and the peat in the COVID. Anyway,
Carl Caylor (14:31):
yeah, back back to this whole social networking
thing. It's not socialnetworking, but the networking
within our industry. It is ithas been amazing how many people
we have all met and I know. Youknow from it's been, gosh, more
than a dozen years that I'vebeen on the speaking circuit and
(14:54):
it's, I can confidentlyconfidently say that if I'm
driving across the country Mycar breaks down, I could
probably call in somebody nearbyand crash at their place. And
that's, it's a cool comfort toknow that in fact, we've done
that before.
Dan Frievalt (15:10):
Dan, I've done that was I was gonna say was it?
Yeah, of course,
Carl Caylor (15:14):
we just had to sleep in a bathtub together. But
that's a whole different
Dan Frievalt (15:17):
way. Yeah, we won't go into detail but there
was no hotels.
Michael Mowbray (15:25):
jacuzzi in going on there.
Carl Caylor (15:28):
Actually, it was it was it was, it's fun. I was
driving out to West this, thisfall, and had to do it had to go
myself by person I was gonna gowith wasn't able to. And so at
that, well, your job was off.
I'm gonna stay with anotherfriend of ours. And I thought,
in fact, we'll bring up his nameTrish Trey Schrader was, I was
gonna stay at Rogers placebutton, western Iowa. And then I
(15:51):
thought, you know, if I do staythere, I'm gonna end up an extra
day on my travels, because we'regonna end up talking all night
anyhow. And we're doing whoknows what round up going and
holding a light foam or somedamn thing. Now, I better not do
this, though. So So sometimesyou have to pick and choose
(16:14):
where you're going to staydepending on your schedule,
because it is it is fun. Andit's it's hard. I mean, when we
leave these in personconventions. I don't know about
you guys, but I get home. AndI'm, I'm like, no good for the
next two or three days. BecauseYeah, I wonder on my studio
going, Oh, my gosh, I'm reallyalone. There's no talk here. And
Dan Frievalt (16:38):
we also care. And we may have mentioned this, like
podcast one or two, but can wecan we talk about the
realization that duringquarantine, all of us will be
like, yeah, this is prettytypical. You can normal stuff.
Yeah, this is this is kind ofnormal, especially in our neck
of the woods where like, youknow, March April, May it's you
(17:03):
know, if you're not traveling onthe speaking circuit, which is
speaking circuit, generally twois January, February, March. You
know, there's Texas School alittle things in April, but that
kind of subsides so you're kindof like, yeah, on your own. So
yeah, when you get home fromthese conventions, one after
another, and you kind of lookaround like, Huh, that I kind of
have a one or two day high yet.
And then I like, Oh, I like itdrops off big time. I'm
(17:27):
exhausted. And I'm kind of like,Oh, I miss everyone, you know,
that kind of thing. So. So yeah,we've been conditioned for for
quarantine. We've been training.
Training.
Carl Caylor (17:42):
That was the problem with this quarantine
this for us, though. I mean, formyself, is that it? Like you
said we're always alone thattime of year and but going to
the conventions and seeingeverybody was like, Oh, thank
goodness, somebody. And thisyear, we had none of it. Right?
I mean, after sync, everythinggot canceled. And it was all my
(18:03):
my social age socialization withjust humanity has been gone for,
what? Seven months? You know,
Dan Frievalt (18:13):
yeah, on top of it, like, the fact that you
can't do anything, that kind ofpsychological thing instead of
like, Oh, I can just jump in andgo here. What if we did this?
You know, it's like, nope, wecan't do anything. So. So yeah,
that, you know, and, and theother thing with our industry,
which I think is pretty amazingcompared to any other industry
(18:33):
is, and this is can be good andcan be bad is that there's so
much that people are willing toshare, you know, like there's
other industries, where it'slike, I'm not giving you you
know, all these Yeah, secrets.
And this is that, like, there'sso many people that have big
hearts and want to share and,you know, you reach out to them
(18:53):
or at convention, you talk tothem, they're they're open. You
know, it used to be kind of evenback in the day, a little bit
more like a speaker was on stageand you were kind of
intimidated, to talk to themafter dark kind of broke those
rules where, hey, we're hangingout with you, we're mentors,
we're, you know, we're going totalk we're going to go through
things, we're going to work itout, we're gonna shoot two or
(19:14):
three in the morning, let's gohere. Let's go here. Let's go
there, you know. And that kindof is something that this
industry is it's pretty cool tobe a part of.
Michael Mowbray (19:26):
It wasn't always like that. Because when I
was first breaking into this, Ihad a hell of a time finding
information because it was preYouTube is pre creative live.
And, you know, unless you talkto the right people, their old
timers were kind of tight withtheir info. So you know, I was a
newbie, I was trying to where doyou place stuff that questions
(19:48):
we get now and they were like,we've kind of roll her eyes that
a little bit because like wheredo you place the light? And it's
like, Well, okay, but you know,but when you're starting off you
don't know yet. You don't know,30 degrees 30 degrees from what?
What's 30 degrees? I mean, it'slike so today, you know, all
those kinds of things, how faraway should it be? You don't
(20:10):
understand the relationshipbetween distance and perceived
softness and shadow transitionand things like that. You know,
and, and inverse square law
Dan Frievalt (20:20):
drink everybody Wait, right. Yeah, I was gonna
say, you were hovering the lineof mass. And I was like, I'm
using
Carl Caylor (20:27):
both hands on that one.
Dan Frievalt (20:31):
Please, double fist and Yeah, well, you bring
up a good point, because I wentthrough that to like, you'd ask
questions, and people kind ofgive you like, the cold
shoulder. Who are you? And it'snot. So I told myself, you know,
if I ever get to a level whereI'm speaking and teaching, I'm
gonna stay up, I'm going toanswer everyone's question. And
you know, because I, I rememberthat feeling. It wasn't a good
(20:54):
feeling.
Michael Mowbray (20:54):
No, you feel lost, because you there's no
place to get the answer. I mean,I started to buy books. You buy
the books, and it's like, Ibought this book. And I read the
book. And it didn't tell me theone thing I really needed to
note down. No, I gotta buyanother book. So
Carl Caylor (21:09):
I got all these books think Dart and Dart and
Drake really help break the iceon that. I mean, we've talked
about Dart before, and peoplereally know him. But I was
extremely lucky. I got to knowhim and Scotty dubara at the
same time, because we were onprint crew together during print
competition back in Wisconsin.
And I remember when darton andScotty and fuzzy dunkel really
(21:33):
started getting big, and reallystarted doing programs, in a lot
of places in becoming very, verywell known. Dart and actually
set both of them are all of usthough. And really, and I was
helping helping carry this stuffaround. I was a roadie more or
less and happy to do it. ButDarren, just straight up said,
(21:55):
when we all do this, we don'thold anything back. I mean, I
want to, I want to make surethat that this is that this is a
group of people that shareseverything from from way inside
to, you know, emotional things,to physical things to technical
things. You don't hold anythingback, because we're just like
(22:17):
you, we were just both saying,people shouldn't have to get
part of the message or read abook and then get a hint towards
the next book, that might be theanswer to the next hint. He's he
really wanted to make sure. Andthen there's a lot of people at
that time, Dean Collins isanother one that even before
darton, that good Gosh, I mean,this wealth of information, and
(22:41):
not afraid to hold back. It'sthose people that to me are the
heroes in the world that theycould have kept the quiet and
kept it to themselves, and thentheir own success. But it
elevated, so much more for theindustry and so much for for all
of us, then just what they wouldhave gained as an individual
(23:02):
conquest. And that's, again,that's the most thing most I've
learned about the industry is tocontinue to give back and to
continue to give everything Ipossibly can. Because of those
guys, it's not just theknowledge, or the skill sets
that we're trying to get across.
It's the idea that we want thisindustry to grow, period, we
(23:26):
want it to be more professional,raise the bar, raise the sea,
Michael Mowbray (23:29):
raise the sea and float everybody's boat.
Dan Frievalt (23:32):
Yeah, raise the shot ski, so we can all get
drunk together. mean, I mean, arising tide raises all ships,
something like that. I just, Ijust,
Michael Mowbray (23:44):
I just need something to float my boat.
That's all I know.
Carl Caylor (23:47):
Hey, you just gave me a new, a new a new idea for a
podcast theme is analogies.
Unknown (23:54):
analogies, or is that what we do?
Dan Frievalt (24:01):
Well, and can we talk about the flip side of
information? Now you talkedabout back in the day, you know,
Michael, that there's lessinformation and it's harder now
with Facebook and the internetand virtual learning and zoom
and all these things. I, youknow, just maybe be aware of
(24:22):
where you're getting youreducation from? Because, you
know, like, Michael, you talkedabout where you place the light,
you throw that post up on ourFacebook group, and you're gonna
get all kinds of answers or allkinds of different things. So,
you know, like I mentionedbefore, there's good and bad
with network information, right.
Carl Caylor (24:43):
Choose wisely. I mean, that's another thing we've
talked about before. I don'tknow. I don't know if we talked
about him on the podcast beforebut we've discussed it before.
That there's a lot out on socialmedia right now. And many
different groups, people postingthat. Maybe shouldn't be posting
(25:04):
as education, because a lot ofwhat they're showing is really
not good. Mm hmm. And people areeating it up by the spoonful
sometimes. And so No, no, itdoesn't know what they don't
know until they know it. Right.
However, check, check the math.
I know we need to drink again,as we talk about math, but, you
(25:27):
know, look at people that aresuccessful, and that are
successful time and time again.
And those are the people tolearn from those are the people
to maybe think these are thepeople that I should be
listening to advice and learningfrom, because they're the ones
that are, are successful. Timeand time again. And I know you
(25:49):
guys repeat it, you can repeatit exactly. The guys will
recognize this name. RememberKari Evanson? Mm hmm. Okay,
carries another extremelytalented photographer. And in
Wisconsin, Donna Green Bay Area,won competitions over and over
and over again. And I know onetime she and Darren and Scotty
(26:10):
and fuzzy and we Larson, and Bobbricco. We're all sitting at a
table at the bar afterwards,again, socialize us networking,
so to speak. And somebody cameto the table and made the
comment that, you know, how doyou do so well in competition
(26:30):
each year, and it's, it must bemust be nice to be that lucky.
And I think it was Darden thatkind of practice head over and
said, Yeah, but isn't it funnythat it's the same people, they
get lucky every single year,
Michael Mowbray (26:45):
right? It's not all luck all the time, there
comes a point in time when wecan all open our eyes and see
the people that really havetalent. And those are the people
that you should break barriersdown and not be intimidated by
them, and start asking themquestions and listening to their
answer. And then those are thepeople that watch on social
(27:08):
media to get ideas and thoughtsfrom not just the general
public, because they're postingon Facebook. My mantra has
always been because first thingpeople say is like, Well, you
know, just go look on YouTube.
It's like, well, there's goodstuff on YouTube, there's a lot
of crap on YouTube. So what areyou going to look at? And I
always say, look at the work. Soyou're going to go look at some
(27:31):
videos from somebody who's goingto show you lighting, great,
there's some good stuff, there'ssome bad stuff. If that person
gives their website, on theirchannel, go to their website,
take a look at their work, isthe work consistent? Is it
really good is it also the kindof stuff that you would like to
do? Okay, if all those thingsmarry together, then maybe go
(27:52):
watch some of the videos, but doa little bit of the due
diligence and do a little bit ofthe research, don't just go
watch 20 videos on off cameraflash, because first of all,
you're going to get 20 differentpoints of view. And out of those
20, I'm going to guarantee youat least 12 of them are pretty
much dead wrong from either atechnical or creative
(28:13):
standpoint. So then you're downto eight, now you're going to be
lucky to follow, you know, whichare those that you, you know,
that are correct, or are goingto be doing good work, and that
you can replicate andincorporate into your work. So,
you know, do a little duediligence, take a look at what
work that photographer or thosephotographers are doing. And
then ask yourself, Is thatsomething you want to do? And
(28:35):
then maybe take the next step?
Because even then, doesn't meanthey're good at teaching it
either. It's true, right? So
Dan Frievalt (28:45):
or on top of that I'll add another layer to that
is are they making some sort ofkickback from promoting a
particular item on YouTube,because they're getting the
viewership from YouTube. It's,it's a glorified affiliate link
or something that they'regetting a kickback from. So
(29:06):
they're like, Oh, you need thislight, and you need this, and
you need to do that, and blah,blah, blah. And then here's my
affiliate link, you know, and Ihave affiliate links and some
things I do get a referral fromsome a lot of affiliate links.
Now, it doesn't matter who youare. Everyone has an affiliate
link, because they want tospread it as much as possible.
It's not your, your following,you know, so just be aware of
(29:32):
that, you know, as well.
Michael Mowbray (29:33):
Absolutely.
Good point.
Carl Caylor (29:36):
So another part of networking in the idea that it's
nice to get to know people iswhen you do need help. Not just
like advice, but actual help.
There's people that have yourback. I mean, I've I've
photographed weddings, a coupleof weddings now. We've done
proms for people that have beensick or danza wine, oh yeah. On
Dan Frievalt (30:01):
this episode too much, too much pre podcast
chatter.
Carl Caylor (30:07):
I told you we should hit record right away.
But but really though we have,not only do we have each other's
back in this industry, you know,if something goes wrong, there's
somebody that can a lot of timesfill in for you and help you out
and keep your income coming in.
And beyond that, and we alreadytalked about PPA and being a
part of that association. Theyalso have insurance plans and
(30:31):
indemnification. So in casethings go wrong, that you have a
lot of staff at your, at yourback as well. So there's a lot
of really important networkingsituations with within these
groups, and especially in theprofessional photographers of
America. So something to keep inmind too, as you make your
(30:54):
choices as to what to belong to,or what to maybe pay dues for
sometimes.
Michael Mowbray (31:02):
Well, and maybe I mean, you kind of have a
laundry list of a little bithere, but let's drill down,
because we're all PPA members.
And we all hold PPA degrees. Sowe could talk about that. And we
all participate in printcompetition. And I'm you How
long have you guys been members?
I've been a member since 2005. Ithink? thousand four? 2005?
Dan Frievalt (31:25):
I have no idea.
2008.
Carl Caylor (31:30):
Okay, I'm
Michael Mowbray (31:31):
1073.
Carl Caylor (31:37):
I think my membership for myself is from
1995. And I was a member throughanother studio. Before that, I
think in 1992. Carlos first itprint competition images that
are 10 times
Dan Frievalt (31:50):
your last plate.
Unknown (31:56):
Yeah, well, you
Michael Mowbray (31:58):
did on that.
Yeah.
Dan Frievalt (32:02):
And this is kind of slightly off tangent, but use
print competition us justentering us, hey, I went to this
convention and furthering myeducation as marketing tools.
You don't have to win an award,you know, you. It's like, hey,
break and do on social media.
And I hate to say break. But Iremember I was grown, or we were
(32:23):
taught in our family, not tobreak kind of be humble and
stuff like that. But inbusiness, you have to learn to
somehow break. There's no otherway to say it. But it's
marketing. It's like, Hey, I'mat this convention, I'm learning
new things, I'm furthering myeducation. So your competition
maybe isn't doing that. So thatis something that can kind of
(32:44):
make you stand out, especiallywhen competition or I'm sorry,
when conventions are when maybeyou're not shooting as much. So
maybe your social media is alittle lacking. So it's like,
Hey, you know, and get pictureswith people and show that I'm
doing this and show that I'mlearning and furthering my
education or bring this back.
(33:04):
And if you do win an award greateven more that you can, you can
post and justify your pricing iswhere that comes down to as
well, which we can get in awhole nother tangent, but
there's so many differentlevels, to community and to
these groups, I guess is whatI'm getting at more than just
Hey, we get to get together andhave drinks and have lunch in.
(33:28):
But we
Unknown (33:29):
have to.
Michael Mowbray (33:30):
Yeah, that's very important. I learned that
PR lesson A long time ago,because well, first of all, if
you're not going to do your ownharm, nobody's going to you
know, do it for you.
Unknown (33:43):
But anyway, stop blowing my horn.
Michael Mowbray (33:47):
But um, I think my first print competition, I
got a I got a couple of redribbons, and I think I got a
brown one. And just in case youdon't know, you'll want the blue
ones and the purple ones. So butI got a couple red ribbons and
one of those awards ofexcellence seven there, Carl, I
know they call. I probably havea purple ones, the yellow, the
(34:10):
red ones.
Carl Caylor (34:12):
The red ones.
Remember what they're called.
Michael Mowbray (34:14):
I think it's Award of Excellence is what's
going on in Wisconsin. And so Isent a press release out that I
won a local photographer winseveral awards of excellence
from the Wisconsin professionalphotographers Association. They
ran the story
Carl Caylor (34:31):
ads. So funny you mentioned that because remember
there was another thing thatScotty I talked about Scotty
duper a lot on this because heis one of my original mentors
but he talked us into several ofus in Wisconsin to go with him
to study with Jay stock severalmany years ago. Jay stock if you
(34:51):
don't know the name, Google it,and then do some research. He is
absolutely incredible.
photographer was a wonderfuleducator He passed away this
last year, unfortunately. But Ihad the opportunity to go in and
spend some time with him at afour week with specialized hand
chosen groups, which was a lotof fun. But there was a time
(35:12):
when he usually he didn'tcompete and for years and years
and years, but when he did, hejust would rake it in. So he'd
go to the state and just, youknow, clean up and but he didn't
really say anything, he got backand it was what it was, he never
wrote to the paper, this isbefore social media. But his his
neighboring studio in the sametown that he was in, who got
(35:37):
entered the imaging, like hesaid, got brown ribbon or
whatever, it was like the, youknow, this is your participation
ribbon. And but they mentionedit, they sent a thing to the
paper. And it was all about thisguy that actually did the
article and or sent the in thearticle that he got this
(35:59):
participant he was at Ohio Statephotography convention, he
participated in and got theseall these award winning images
and Jays, like, I want everycategory. But, but nobody knew
because he didn't toot his ownhorn, you know, he didn't, he
didn't market it. And so it wasa good lesson. I mean, it's
(36:21):
probably one of the betterlessons and I mean, I learned a
lot of photography from him. Butthat was probably one of the
best lessons I learned at, youknow, while studying with Jay is
to sometimes you need to reallyget away from the humbleness and
that's really hard for me. Iknow you guys are in the same
boat too. And I think I've beenthinking about that more and
(36:43):
more lately. In that. You know,Dan, you always say hire
somebody to do the things thatyou don't want to do or not good
at? You should actually justhire a I know it sounds really
stupid or bad but hire apublicist.
Dan Frievalt (36:58):
Yeah, this is PR person. Yeah,
Carl Caylor (36:59):
yeah. Cuz I just I really, it's not me. But but but
it's, it's a necessary evil, youknow, because we're not just
creatives, we're a business, tomake money and to get more
people through the door. Andusing our networking and our
status within the industry isprobably a good way to keep that
moving. So Sure.
Michael Mowbray (37:20):
So just to kind of sum that up, if you're, you
know, sitting at home, and youwork by yourself, we're
basically giving you permissionto you know, be there tooting
your own horn anyway as
Carl Caylor (37:32):
you can, right now to listen to this on your radio,
while driving, stay between thelines, don't hit any deer. And
listen to what we say. If youtoot your own horn too much.
Will you go deaf?
Dan Frievalt (37:47):
to your heart in the woods? Anyone
Unknown (37:49):
here? Okay,
Michael Mowbray (37:55):
okay. Culture, man, his own horn in the woods.
Is he still wrong? anyway?
Carl Caylor (38:00):
Yes, I saw I saw that mean, actually, there's a
sign about that. So the signWell, it's at my sister in law's
place. So maybe it's notcompletely true. But
Michael Mowbray (38:11):
so we talk, we talk about organizations,
because, you know, that's what'sreally helped us. And
conferences, it's really helpedus. But there seems to be and we
know this from all theconferences we go to and get
contacted by to go speak, thatthere's fewer and fewer
attendees. Yet, there are moreand more photographers now than
(38:35):
at any other time in history.
What up with that? Why aren'tpeople join him? And what can
what can we do other than thekind of some of the stuff we're
talking about here in thispodcast? What? What can we do
and work and other people'speople's look at other people's
dues? To thank Michael, I know,dude, he gets to get more
(38:56):
participation in local, state,regional whatever. Because I
think a lot of people do relyjust on social media and their
Facebook groups. And that's onlygoing to get you so far.
Dan Frievalt (39:10):
Yeah, you know, I think it's between social media,
YouTube, you know, onlinelearning, and people. There's
more photographers, but I don'tknow if there's as many full
time photographers as back inthe day, there was a lot more
full time photographers and bigstudios. Now I feel like there's
a lot of people doing it parttime and have a full time job
(39:34):
for the benefits and things likethat. So it's a little bit
harder to break away and do inperson conventions and things
like that. So sadly, a lot oflike you said the the local and
stuff are kind of dwindling,because there's just not enough
interest in that, you know, or,you know, part of it is kind of
looked down on as you said,we've been around a while, but
(39:56):
sometimes that's a detriment tous. It's like Oh, the old fuddy
duddy guys, you know you want tothe hip cool, sexy imagery and
all that stuff. And that that iscool as well. So it's just not
as cool, I guess. Uh, hang withus old fuddy duddy. Guys.
Michael Mowbray (40:18):
Let me the way I'm looking at your face as you
say that you visibly aged.
Carl Caylor (40:26):
Well, he was tired.
Dan Frievalt (40:29):
Tired after that, yeah, well remember, for so
many, so many years as likeDan's young guy, he's, we gotta
you know, we got to lean inagain. This young guy like I'm
not young. I'm older. What doyou think I am?
Michael Mowbray (40:41):
You said that to me. Once after a board
meeting at the state ofWisconsin. It's like, Can you
keep calling me the young guy islike, Damn, looking around the
room. In this room, the young
Dan Frievalt (40:54):
so there so so there's a thing. Surround
yourself with people that areolder than you and you're gonna
feel a lot hipper, younger.
Carl Caylor (41:04):
Oh, remember Billy, she always said if you want to
look good, stand next tosomebody that's not good
looking. So she, Emily's anotherone of my mentors.
Michael Mowbray (41:13):
Just went a long time with her. Did she
stand near you a lot?
Carl Caylor (41:17):
Yeah, she does. Um, no, she, she sent us a Christmas
card every year. And the lastyear, she said, I'm getting so
old and so many wrinkles that tomake myself look good. She She
and her studio partner sent acard of toasting with martini
glasses. And right behind him isthe back end of an elephant. So
(41:42):
in the caption, it sayssomething like, No, we are
equals don't look that bad atall compared to what's behind us
or something like that. It'slike that south end of a
northbound elephant. But yeah,she's quite individual. You
know, what do I think that? Youknow, there is less people out
there? because like you said,there are our letters, more
photographers. Absolutely. Andbut there are definitely less
(42:06):
full time. And in there is Iknow, I mean, all my week long
classes, whether it's TexasSchool, or west coast, or
whatever workshop or school thatI'm teaching that most of the
people in that class are parttimers, they're people that
decided or retirees that wantsomething different, or they're
(42:27):
picking up a camera, which iswonderful, that's great. But
each and every one withoutexception, wants to learn more
about this craft. And I followthem after class is out. Even I
have Facebook groups for ourspecific classes. And I still
get the same questions all thetime. And I can see that people
(42:50):
just aren't listening to or justaren't hearing exactly
everything I say. And it's notthe technical things that
they're missing, or the thingsthat I taught them in class, the
thing that I told them thatthey're not listening to, is to
get involved with localorganization, because if they
just did that, their educationwould continue. tenfold year
(43:11):
round. So I mean, it just,they're like, well, I just don't
get this yet. I don't get theset. I know you don't get this
because it takes time. But thetime is shaving off. So
exponentially. I said that withwith after drinking too. By the
way, I was very impressed withmyself for that exponentially
twice. I said it. That is a lotof syllables. If you get
(43:35):
together with people in person,every month, it is amazing how
much quicker you get all thisstuff. It's amazing how much
more the light bulb goes on.
It's amazing how much betteryour work gets faster. Online
just doesn't do it. I mean, it'sa great avenue for a lot of
things and get ideas into to getsome things but you just can't
(43:57):
get everything in photography.
Virtually it just is notpossible. You have to be hands
on and watching people it's likegoing, I just got back from the
mountains in Colorado. And youknow, I didn't want to drag my
camera with me. I mean, I wasthere to go fishing and enjoy
the hikes with my aunt and uncleand my wife and I don't want to
(44:21):
I didn't want to bring a camerabut I brought my iPhone. And I
took pictures of things that forthe for the family, you know,
things that show where we wereand what we were doing and what
we're catching and stuff likethat. And it still didn't do it
justice. Even as I was takingpictures of my iPhone, I was
thinking myself even if I had mygood equipment, you just can't
(44:43):
all 100% of the time capture theamazement of the Colorado,
Colorado Rocky Mountains. Itjust doesn't happen. And virtual
learning of photography comparedto in person is so similar to
that you Just can't get it allyou just it just, there's
nothing you can do to capturewhat you really get when you're
(45:05):
in person with everybody andbumping elbows with some of the
best people in the world, inyour industry that some of its
going to rub off. So I there'sno way of just forcing people
but by Gosh, do yourself a favorif you want to continue to learn
and learn faster in thisindustry. Go get involved with a
local group or a state group ora national group and be there in
(45:28):
person and get involved with itand put something into it so
that you get more back. That'sstraight up.
Michael Mowbray (45:36):
No bullshit on Michael Mowbray and I support
this message.
Dan Frievalt (45:39):
Yeah, Jeff, Jeff to Mike if it means wearing a
hazmat suit so you can bumpelbows and rub up against Hey,
you're still gonna learn more.
Michael Mowbray (45:48):
So parting shots from any of you guys? He
does a pretty good wrap up rightthere.
Dan Frievalt (45:51):
Yeah, I think I think Carl did the My job is
that
Carl Caylor (45:55):
I was on a ranch.
Dan Frievalt (45:58):
Double fist in Colorado, Mike. I heard john
Denver in the background when hewas talking. Colorado, Colorado,
Rocky Mountain.
Carl Caylor (46:09):
I was thinking about that as we were walking a
grass gasping for air at 12,000feet and going I don't know how
the fish breathe up here becauseI can't breathe but Jesus Christ
but Yeah, we did.
Dan Frievalt (46:21):
By the way. Hey, you know where fish go when it's
raining? were under the bridge.
So
Unknown (46:29):
there you go.
Michael Mowbray (46:32):
That's funny, because it's true.
Dan Frievalt (46:36):
What is the fish say when you ran into this event
wall? dam.
Michael Mowbray (46:44):
So these dad jokes in honor of Dan rose
birthday.
Dan Frievalt (46:47):
Yes, it is his birthday today is Deborah's
Carl Caylor (46:51):
birthday. So where does Napoleon keep his armies?
Yeah,
Unknown (46:56):
it is.
Oh,
Michael Mowbray (47:02):
that's actually a little dad jokes. That's my I
told my daughter that when shewas in high school, died.
Carl Caylor (47:09):
Okay, you guys, you'll get a kick out of this.
Speaking of groups, and beingpart of things, my wife. I don't
know how she arranged this. Butshe is now in a group on social
media of stupid dad jokes. Idon't know how she got into it.
(47:30):
People let her in. But she's oncorny dad jokes, and coming up
with all these doozies. But theother one the one that she did
the other day and my brothers.
My brother is a commercial diverwas a commercial diver back in
the day. So this was for him. SoI said, you know, why do scuba
divers always fall backwards outof a boat?
Unknown (47:51):
No,
Carl Caylor (47:52):
because if they fell forward, they'd still be in
the boat.
Unknown (47:56):
It's
Michael Mowbray (47:57):
that's pretty bad. is I'm just wondering Okay.
What did Teresa search for onFacebook groups that she found
is a stupid dad jokes becauseI'm thinking getting started
with stupid dad.
Carl Caylor (48:15):
No, that would be my daughter. Because you know as
a dad if you have a daughteryou're gonna go from stupid to I
love you too. I stupid. You'rethe meanest person in the world
too. I love you. You're so cool.
All within like I don't twominutes. No, I every single day
and I and maybe I'm the only onelike that. But
Michael Mowbray (48:36):
we had that.
That was seventh grade. And thenwent on so then she's been great
ever since. So I want I wantedto you know, sell her off when
she was selling. But afterthat's been great. So and her
birthday this week. Happybirthday, Brianna. So Oh, happy
birthday is halfway to 50 that'swhy we're just I just got caught
here. Yeah. She's like, Wow,thanks. That makes me feel
(49:00):
great. Happy birthday, Dan row,just in case you forgot that. It
was loud enough. It was I don'tknow more than halfway to the
century. I don't know. Anyway,so every week we have a sponsor,
and this week's sponsor ispumpkin dribbling. Pumpkin
dribbling beer from CoronadoBrewing Company in San Diego.
drinks like a warm baked pieceof pumpkin bread with soft
(49:23):
touches of brown sugar, andsmooth vanilla notes followed by
autumns favorite flavors.
Perfect for fall, or even justfalling down. It's pumpkin drum
lick from Coronado brewing.
Dan Frievalt (49:40):
Yeah, I actually that's probably the best one
sounds I think it is. And ifthere's a wines talking to me,
I'm hungry. It's been a longday, but action sounds
delicious. Yeah.
Michael Mowbray (49:50):
Does I've tried pumpkins or different pumpkin
beer before and it was not good.
But this one actually soundsgood.
Dan Frievalt (49:58):
I'm not a fan of pumpkin spice. person but this
thing sound like add spice. Oh,so
Carl Caylor (50:03):
I hope this isn't seasonal because next year when
I'm teaching at West Coastschool in San Diego, maybe we
can go and take a tour of theirplace and get some beer. Oh,
Michael Mowbray (50:12):
yeah, yeah, right there in San Diego. So
look it up.
Carl Caylor (50:16):
So Paul right after my favorite school, so why not?
Michael Mowbray (50:19):
All right.
Well, that's all we got for thisweek, guys. So Till next time,
cheers do
Unknown (50:24):
Cheers. Cheers.
Last call.
Michael Mowbray (50:29):
You've been listening to the photo happy
hour podcast. Be sure to hitthat subscribe button to not
miss a single action packedepisode. And join our photo
happy hour Facebook group wherewe'll post links to the stuff we
all talk about. You can find mymo like gear online at www dot
gomo life.com. That's geo mo Ligh t.com You can find the
(50:51):
Facebook page under MoLightstore and I also run the Godox
flash help group on Facebook.
You can find Dan SR on lockwebsite at www dot seniors
unlocked.com that's seniors withan S at the end unlocked.com and
the Facebook group under seniorsunlocked and you can find Carl's
coaching corner@www.cc photocoach comm cc photo coach.com
(51:13):
Till next time, cheers to you.
Liam (51:34):
I don't know who you are.
I don't know what you want. Ifyou want me to pay you to
subscribe, I can tell you Idon't have money. But what I do
have are a very particular setof skills, skills I have
acquired over a very long careerskills that make me a nightmare
for people like you. If yousubscribe now, that will be the
(51:57):
end of it. I will not look foryou. I will not pursue you. But
if you don't, I will look foryou. I will find you and I will
annoy you
Recorded live from the parking lot of Walley
world. Sorry, folks, Parksclosed the moose off function.
It's the photo happy hourpodcast.
Hey, and welcome everybody comeon in and grab a seat at the
bar. I'm your photo happy hour.
bartender Michael Mowbray andI'm serving up some pumpkin
spice liqueur with a cinnamonswirl stick. Ooh, I'm so Anya.
(00:28):
Joining me behind the bar areDan Frievalt. And Carl Caylor.
Say guys.
Carl Caylor (00:35):
Hey, guys,
Dan Frievalt (00:37):
I'm exhausted.
Carl Caylor (00:39):
I chose especially on the eyes. Gotta keep them
open and open.
Unknown (00:45):
Yeah, it's October.
Oh.
Carl Caylor (00:49):
Oktoberfest a
Dan Frievalt (00:50):
Wait, wait, what?
How did it become October?
Alright.
Carl Caylor (00:56):
is just March a little bit ago?
Dan Frievalt (00:58):
We were just locked in the basement like two
days ago. Where is that
Michael Mowbray (01:02):
COVID thing over yet? No,
Carl Caylor (01:04):
no, no. It wasn't a COVID thing. It was all a dream.
It was just like, what was itdynasty or Dallas or whatever it
was that guy like die, but buthe came back next season because
it was all a dream.
Dan Frievalt (01:16):
This is remember that he was there. He was in a
coma?
Carl Caylor (01:19):
Yeah, or something like that. The whole thing was,
we're just dreaming this wholedarn thing. Nothing is really
wrong out there. So tomorrowmorning, we're gonna get up and
we're gonna go back to work likenormal and none of this crap
ever happened. I liked thatideal squat that
Michael Mowbray (01:31):
I've been kind of hoping because this is like
the one year anniversary of theending of Game of Thrones that
they're going to actually launchthe real final episode and just
announced that the other onewas, was hold on a dream.
Dan Frievalt (01:43):
Oh, yeah. Not tease me Don't
Unknown (01:48):
hold on.
Michael Mowbray (01:52):
About a year since you've heard that one.
Right? It is. Anyway, so in caseyou're joining us for the first
time, bless you. The premise ofthis podcast is we are three
professional photographers whohave been around for a while.
And we'd like to get togetherand have a I don't know, a drink
or seven. And when we drink, westart to talk about photography.
(02:17):
And the more we drink we Themore we know or think we do. And
this week we're talking aboutwhat the hell's decided we're
talking about community theimportance of community in
photography doubles. What do wemean? What do we mean? community
in beyond doing socials,
Dan Frievalt (02:33):
which is having a good group of friends that you
can do a shot ski with? Have wementioned a Schottky on this?
Yes, yeah, I think
Michael Mowbray (02:40):
we need to explain what a shot ski is.
Carl Caylor (02:43):
I got to post it on our Facebook. Mostly photo.
Dan Frievalt (02:47):
Schottky Is it a Wisconsin thing? Oh, sure. Well,
no,
Michael Mowbray (02:50):
we'll just claim it
Dan Frievalt (02:52):
will claim. I mean, it has to do with
drinking. It has to originate inWisconsin.
Michael Mowbray (02:58):
It's got a ski at the end. So I figured it's
got to be something
Dan Frievalt (03:03):
here too. Yeah. So you take it either. It's either
a water ski or snow ski and youhave shot glasses glued to it,
you know, anywhere from three tofive. I guess we have to make a
new one for social distancing,you know, yeah.
Michael Mowbray (03:18):
Cross Country skis.
Carl Caylor (03:21):
We'll use we'll use some of those ski jump skis.
They're long
Dan Frievalt (03:25):
jokes. That's it.
I was Yeah. Two by 10s. So youhave a couple of shot glasses
glued on your board full ofshots and everyone gets together
and 123 tip the sea shot ski upand you're down the shot and
there you have yourself a shotski. There you go.
Michael Mowbray (03:46):
Everybody's just gonna rush out to Amazon.
It is Amazon Prime Day whileit's recording this so
everybody's gonna go out toAmazon now and see if they can
buy a shot ski. Like you look atthinking about looking it up and
see if you look at it.
Dan Frievalt (04:00):
I'll give you an affiliate link to my shot ski on
Amazon. I wonder if
Michael Mowbray (04:06):
you guys keep talking. I'm gonna look it up.
Carl Caylor (04:08):
Just do the Google shot ski see if it actually
shows up.
Dan Frievalt (04:12):
Go to my Pinterest page. We'll show you how to make
your very own miljoen CHATZKYwith three easy steps.
Michael Mowbray (04:19):
Amazon as I started typing in shot ski and
it comes up shots keyboard withglasses. I'll be darned. Let me
see. I guess Guess what, whatguess what the first thing that
comes up is I'm going to shipit. I'm going to show it to you
guys made it was very first thegreen thing here. Hang on. You
see what that is? The leafblower it's
Carl Caylor (04:43):
Oh my gosh. There's so off. You saw
Michael Mowbray (04:48):
Oh, there we go. We've got a four person
drinking ski and the person andafford a four person Yeah. Wow.
Dan Frievalt (04:56):
It's called a drink in ski so like a shot
skis. Kind Like a bubbler, youknow, it's branded to what's got
Carl Caylor (05:03):
waterphone?
Dan Frievalt (05:04):
Well, it's branded to Wisconsin. That's true. The
leaf
Michael Mowbray (05:07):
blower was kitty corner away from the shot
ski
Carl Caylor (05:10):
caddy corner as
Michael Mowbray (05:12):
Jen said, anyway, you have to listen
ready.
Carl Caylor (05:17):
All the time on this, it's like a everlasting
cycle. So anyhow, network issociable. The reason we talk
about socials is because we werediscussing, we had a interview
with Angela kerugian, over thereat in the PPA headquarters. And,
and it's amazing how ourconversations about this
(05:38):
industry and even ourinvolvement in PPA or other
groups, and even how we met eachother, comes down to how strong
networking is in our industry,and how much that we are able to
lean on each other in thisindustry, and how it's sad that
some people that aren't part ofour groups, or their local
(06:00):
groups don't have thatopportunity. So we thought, hey,
let's make it a show. So let's,let's chat about that.
Dan Frievalt (06:10):
So that's the show. Great show everyone.
Thanks.
Michael Mowbray (06:12):
Good job, guys.
I feel real good about this one.
Carl Caylor (06:17):
Dan's after this, that's probably just networking.
Michael Mowbray (06:22):
So So if you've listened to a few of these,
you'll, you'll hear that we talkabout different conferences in
different organizations andsuch. And we're all big
believers in that kind ofnetworking, that kind of
learning environments, you know,hands on learning, which is
harder than time of COVID. But,you know, so some of the
(06:42):
conferences we talked about areimaging USA, which is one of the
biggest, if not the biggestphotography conference in the
United States. And that's put onby professional photographers of
America. And that's once a year,usually in January. And then,
you know, we've talked aboutsync, which is, I'm trying
remember what sync stands forsenior youth national
(07:04):
conference,
Dan Frievalt (07:05):
National Conference, and
Michael Mowbray (07:06):
yeah, but it's primarily primarily a senior
photography conference. But youknow, they talk about newborns
and families and stuff, too. Andthat's typically in Florida in
February or March. But there aretons of conferences, if you're
not aware of this, there aretons of conferences around the
country, your state might haveone, your region probably has
(07:27):
one. There are national ones.
And that's where folks like us,we'd like to go hang out and
just talk to other people likeus. I mean, if nothing else, if
we're not, you know, we're notnecessarily learning something,
we're they're just talking toother people who are like us,
and we highly recommend doingthat. Because, yeah, sometimes
your spouse or your significantsignificant other your family
(07:49):
don't really get what it meansto be a photographer. And it's
nice to you know, hang out witha group before other people or
five or 10 or whatever, thatthey're all kind of like you
they all kind of weird like you,you know. You can say aperture
and they know what you'retalking about.
Dan Frievalt (08:11):
You can be you can be eating lunch in this and you
know, awesome like, Oh my Godlook at the light over there on
that person and everyone getsit. It doesn't sound creepy at
all.
Michael Mowbray (08:23):
You'll be you know, like the hotel restaurant
for a conference you saysomething like that. Obviously
you see everybody prairie dogall the heads pop up.
Unknown (08:29):
Yeah. Squirrel.
Dan Frievalt (08:32):
Except right, whichever. I'll never forget the
one time we went It was afterdark in Kansas City and a big
group of us went out to a famousbarbecue place was it's just
kind of a hole in the wall divebar place and we all went we got
ribs and brisket and all thisstuff, you know, and then went
there must have been a good 15of us. We all get our food.
(08:52):
We're all sitting down andeveryone is taking pictures like
get this picture. Get thispicture. Get a picture of us.
Oh, well you guys Hurry up. Iwant to eat my ribs already.
salivating here I've beenworking I've been working all
week long for this and it's likeonly when a group of
photographers used to wait ahalf an hour where everyone gets
their pictures in the lightingset just right before now we can
(09:14):
knock out food Yeah, it's cold
Michael Mowbray (09:17):
well can you guys turn the light on on your
phone and just hold her overhere? I want to skip over the
back of the brisket
Carl Caylor (09:22):
done that many times. In fact is there a call
Michael? Yeah to do thatNashville before I can have my
drink
Unknown (09:28):
young
Michael Mowbray (09:30):
bottle or whatever it was? No, I had a
pretty drink that was that goodrocks place place yeah, dog or
whatever the whole thing wascalled. And my drink was pretty
so we had a lighter properly.
Carl Caylor (09:44):
Yeah, yeah. So I just I just looked at a sink is
in March this this coming yearto one March 5 to the eighth.
Hopefully it's in person. That'sthe only thing that we really do
push. Virtual things are greatin between, but it's so so
important. For us to be inperson at a conferences, you
(10:04):
just don't learn as much ordon't get to know people as
much. Of course, we're differentbecause, you know, the podcast
is that we, we all know eachother, we're very transparent.
That's why the podcast works sowell. But, but in general,
though, you're so much betteroff to be able to get to know
people more and bounce ideas offeach other. And, you know, it's
(10:26):
the things that we hear betweenthe comments and between the
ideas that I think are asimportant as the ideas
themselves. Yeah. Or we learnthe speakers, you know?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Dan Frievalt (10:40):
And before I forget, if I can interrupt just
a second is, I want to throwout, like, my tip for
conferences is to it. Like whenyou go to a bunch of
conferences, next we have, it'seasy to get together with the
same group of people in a, go tolunch and go to dinner and
everything, try and expand thata little bit and go out with a
(11:00):
different group. I know, it'slike, it's nice to meet up with
the friends you've made. Butgoing with different group and
getting around different people,you're going to get a little bit
different points of view, youknow, as well, and also invite
people or just invite someonethat's new and say, Hey, you
want to why don't you come tolunch with us? And they really,
it's like, heck, yeah, like, youknow, you know, welcome them in.
(11:21):
Because, you know, if you go tosomething and you're brand new,
it's very intimidating, becauseit may seem like there's a bunch
of clicks, but it's because allof us We haven't seen each other
in so long and we've become goodfriends because we've gone year
after year, so we want to gettogether and hang out. It
doesn't mean we want to excludeanyone. You know if anyone ever
(11:42):
asks us well, like heck yeah,jump in with us. Or it's like
we're invite people like go outof our way to invite people
because I know how that is. Itcan be intimidating. And we're
not intimidating people. JustYeah, you just might have to buy
us drinks
Michael Mowbray (11:58):
that's a monster. Yeah,
Carl Caylor (11:59):
the shotgun shotgun together
Dan Frievalt (12:03):
at the at the end of law. Yeah. The bill who's got
the this the new guys got thetab.
Michael Mowbray (12:12):
It's like the old Seinfeld thing. It's like
you You order all this food youeat all this food in and then
you're you're full and then theybring the check and you're like,
why am I paying for this? Ialready ate it all.
Carl Caylor (12:24):
It's gone. Through this. It wasn't really here.
Michael Mowbray (12:29):
We got the Gator bites. Jen knows that you
Jen. Jen.
Unknown (12:34):
Jen. Jen, they broke up. Did you
Michael Mowbray (12:37):
see that? What total total side tangent here.
That dad. You know whose? Dad?
They got divorced. Wow. Oh, no,I just I ran across this. Doing
some deep research on somethingreally important. Otherwise
known as mindless scrolling. Ibelieve late at night going oh
(12:58):
my god, we're all gonna die. AndI saw that I found out the bad
dad and Jen got divorced. And Iguess they're staying friendly.
But Wow. Well,
Dan Frievalt (13:10):
yes. Too bad. Was Robin. It was Robin involved
there. They weren't.
Michael Mowbray (13:15):
They weren't saying but okay. Okay. We
Carl Caylor (13:19):
you guys realize we missed something. This episode
already.
Michael Mowbray (13:23):
Set. What are we drinking? While you're
drinking the same damn thing allthe time. So I just quit
Carl Caylor (13:29):
drinking beer today. Oh, wedding and whiskey
because I figured I would runout of whiskey. Will you make a
Dan Frievalt (13:37):
double fist in it?
Carl Caylor (13:38):
It's serious. I'm leaning on one arm and just
setting the glasses down inbetween. So we're taking turns.
Because you know, why not? Dan?
Oh, I see. You have some winethere.
Dan Frievalt (13:49):
Zinfandel for me.
Yes. Yeah.
Michael Mowbray (13:52):
This is the last of the 10 year old euro.
scotch just tried for the firsttime. Wow. The bottle was the
first time I've had insurerscotches. I've tried this a few
times now.
Carl Caylor (14:04):
So did you use real ice or your rock stuff this
time?
Michael Mowbray (14:07):
No, there's no ice that's straight. It's cool
enough. I don't need any ice.
Well, it is October 8. Neat.
Clean. Yes. But the only thingyou may be do sometimes is put a
little drop of water or justspin it. There we go. Perfect.
Carl Caylor (14:23):
Nobody knows your own because no one else is gonna
drink it.
Michael Mowbray (14:26):
Yeah, and the peat in the COVID. Anyway,
Carl Caylor (14:31):
yeah, back back to this whole social networking
thing. It's not socialnetworking, but the networking
within our industry. It is ithas been amazing how many people
we have all met and I know. Youknow from it's been, gosh, more
than a dozen years that I'vebeen on the speaking circuit and
(14:54):
it's, I can confidentlyconfidently say that if I'm
driving across the country Mycar breaks down, I could
probably call in somebody nearbyand crash at their place. And
that's, it's a cool comfort toknow that in fact, we've done
that before.
Dan Frievalt (15:10):
Dan, I've done that was I was gonna say was it?
Yeah, of course,
Carl Caylor (15:14):
we just had to sleep in a bathtub together. But
that's a whole different
Dan Frievalt (15:17):
way. Yeah, we won't go into detail but there
was no hotels.
Michael Mowbray (15:25):
jacuzzi in going on there.
Carl Caylor (15:28):
Actually, it was it was it was, it's fun. I was
driving out to West this, thisfall, and had to do it had to go
myself by person I was gonna gowith wasn't able to. And so at
that, well, your job was off.
I'm gonna stay with anotherfriend of ours. And I thought,
in fact, we'll bring up his nameTrish Trey Schrader was, I was
gonna stay at Rogers placebutton, western Iowa. And then I
(15:51):
thought, you know, if I do staythere, I'm gonna end up an extra
day on my travels, because we'regonna end up talking all night
anyhow. And we're doing whoknows what round up going and
holding a light foam or somedamn thing. Now, I better not do
this, though. So So sometimesyou have to pick and choose
(16:14):
where you're going to staydepending on your schedule,
because it is it is fun. Andit's it's hard. I mean, when we
leave these in personconventions. I don't know about
you guys, but I get home. AndI'm, I'm like, no good for the
next two or three days. BecauseYeah, I wonder on my studio
going, Oh, my gosh, I'm reallyalone. There's no talk here. And
Dan Frievalt (16:38):
we also care. And we may have mentioned this, like
podcast one or two, but can wecan we talk about the
realization that duringquarantine, all of us will be
like, yeah, this is prettytypical. You can normal stuff.
Yeah, this is this is kind ofnormal, especially in our neck
of the woods where like, youknow, March April, May it's you
(17:03):
know, if you're not traveling onthe speaking circuit, which is
speaking circuit, generally twois January, February, March. You
know, there's Texas School alittle things in April, but that
kind of subsides so you're kindof like, yeah, on your own. So
yeah, when you get home fromthese conventions, one after
another, and you kind of lookaround like, Huh, that I kind of
have a one or two day high yet.
And then I like, Oh, I like itdrops off big time. I'm
(17:27):
exhausted. And I'm kind of like,Oh, I miss everyone, you know,
that kind of thing. So. So yeah,we've been conditioned for for
quarantine. We've been training.
Training.
Carl Caylor (17:42):
That was the problem with this quarantine
this for us, though. I mean, formyself, is that it? Like you
said we're always alone thattime of year and but going to
the conventions and seeingeverybody was like, Oh, thank
goodness, somebody. And thisyear, we had none of it. Right?
I mean, after sync, everythinggot canceled. And it was all my
(18:03):
my social age socialization withjust humanity has been gone for,
what? Seven months? You know,
Dan Frievalt (18:13):
yeah, on top of it, like, the fact that you
can't do anything, that kind ofpsychological thing instead of
like, Oh, I can just jump in andgo here. What if we did this?
You know, it's like, nope, wecan't do anything. So. So yeah,
that, you know, and, and theother thing with our industry,
which I think is pretty amazingcompared to any other industry
(18:33):
is, and this is can be good andcan be bad is that there's so
much that people are willing toshare, you know, like there's
other industries, where it'slike, I'm not giving you you
know, all these Yeah, secrets.
And this is that, like, there'sso many people that have big
hearts and want to share and,you know, you reach out to them
(18:53):
or at convention, you talk tothem, they're they're open. You
know, it used to be kind of evenback in the day, a little bit
more like a speaker was on stageand you were kind of
intimidated, to talk to themafter dark kind of broke those
rules where, hey, we're hangingout with you, we're mentors,
we're, you know, we're going totalk we're going to go through
things, we're going to work itout, we're gonna shoot two or
(19:14):
three in the morning, let's gohere. Let's go here. Let's go
there, you know. And that kindof is something that this
industry is it's pretty cool tobe a part of.
Michael Mowbray (19:26):
It wasn't always like that. Because when I
was first breaking into this, Ihad a hell of a time finding
information because it was preYouTube is pre creative live.
And, you know, unless you talkto the right people, their old
timers were kind of tight withtheir info. So you know, I was a
newbie, I was trying to where doyou place stuff that questions
(19:48):
we get now and they were like,we've kind of roll her eyes that
a little bit because like wheredo you place the light? And it's
like, Well, okay, but you know,but when you're starting off you
don't know yet. You don't know,30 degrees 30 degrees from what?
What's 30 degrees? I mean, it'slike so today, you know, all
those kinds of things, how faraway should it be? You don't
(20:10):
understand the relationshipbetween distance and perceived
softness and shadow transitionand things like that. You know,
and, and inverse square law
Dan Frievalt (20:20):
drink everybody Wait, right. Yeah, I was gonna
say, you were hovering the lineof mass. And I was like, I'm
using
Carl Caylor (20:27):
both hands on that one.
Dan Frievalt (20:31):
Please, double fist and Yeah, well, you bring
up a good point, because I wentthrough that to like, you'd ask
questions, and people kind ofgive you like, the cold
shoulder. Who are you? And it'snot. So I told myself, you know,
if I ever get to a level whereI'm speaking and teaching, I'm
gonna stay up, I'm going toanswer everyone's question. And
you know, because I, I rememberthat feeling. It wasn't a good
(20:54):
feeling.
Michael Mowbray (20:54):
No, you feel lost, because you there's no
place to get the answer. I mean,I started to buy books. You buy
the books, and it's like, Ibought this book. And I read the
book. And it didn't tell me theone thing I really needed to
note down. No, I gotta buyanother book. So
Carl Caylor (21:09):
I got all these books think Dart and Dart and
Drake really help break the iceon that. I mean, we've talked
about Dart before, and peoplereally know him. But I was
extremely lucky. I got to knowhim and Scotty dubara at the
same time, because we were onprint crew together during print
competition back in Wisconsin.
And I remember when darton andScotty and fuzzy dunkel really
(21:33):
started getting big, and reallystarted doing programs, in a lot
of places in becoming very, verywell known. Dart and actually
set both of them are all of usthough. And really, and I was
helping helping carry this stuffaround. I was a roadie more or
less and happy to do it. ButDarren, just straight up said,
(21:55):
when we all do this, we don'thold anything back. I mean, I
want to, I want to make surethat that this is that this is a
group of people that shareseverything from from way inside
to, you know, emotional things,to physical things to technical
things. You don't hold anythingback, because we're just like
(22:17):
you, we were just both saying,people shouldn't have to get
part of the message or read abook and then get a hint towards
the next book, that might be theanswer to the next hint. He's he
really wanted to make sure. Andthen there's a lot of people at
that time, Dean Collins isanother one that even before
darton, that good Gosh, I mean,this wealth of information, and
(22:41):
not afraid to hold back. It'sthose people that to me are the
heroes in the world that theycould have kept the quiet and
kept it to themselves, and thentheir own success. But it
elevated, so much more for theindustry and so much for for all
of us, then just what they wouldhave gained as an individual
(23:02):
conquest. And that's, again,that's the most thing most I've
learned about the industry is tocontinue to give back and to
continue to give everything Ipossibly can. Because of those
guys, it's not just theknowledge, or the skill sets
that we're trying to get across.
It's the idea that we want thisindustry to grow, period, we
(23:26):
want it to be more professional,raise the bar, raise the sea,
Michael Mowbray (23:29):
raise the sea and float everybody's boat.
Dan Frievalt (23:32):
Yeah, raise the shot ski, so we can all get
drunk together. mean, I mean, arising tide raises all ships,
something like that. I just, Ijust,
Michael Mowbray (23:44):
I just need something to float my boat.
That's all I know.
Carl Caylor (23:47):
Hey, you just gave me a new, a new a new idea for a
podcast theme is analogies.
Unknown (23:54):
analogies, or is that what we do?
Dan Frievalt (24:01):
Well, and can we talk about the flip side of
information? Now you talkedabout back in the day, you know,
Michael, that there's lessinformation and it's harder now
with Facebook and the internetand virtual learning and zoom
and all these things. I, youknow, just maybe be aware of
(24:22):
where you're getting youreducation from? Because, you
know, like, Michael, you talkedabout where you place the light,
you throw that post up on ourFacebook group, and you're gonna
get all kinds of answers or allkinds of different things. So,
you know, like I mentionedbefore, there's good and bad
with network information, right.
Carl Caylor (24:43):
Choose wisely. I mean, that's another thing we've
talked about before. I don'tknow. I don't know if we talked
about him on the podcast beforebut we've discussed it before.
That there's a lot out on socialmedia right now. And many
different groups, people postingthat. Maybe shouldn't be posting
(25:04):
as education, because a lot ofwhat they're showing is really
not good. Mm hmm. And people areeating it up by the spoonful
sometimes. And so No, no, itdoesn't know what they don't
know until they know it. Right.
However, check, check the math.
I know we need to drink again,as we talk about math, but, you
(25:27):
know, look at people that aresuccessful, and that are
successful time and time again.
And those are the people tolearn from those are the people
to maybe think these are thepeople that I should be
listening to advice and learningfrom, because they're the ones
that are, are successful. Timeand time again. And I know you
(25:49):
guys repeat it, you can repeatit exactly. The guys will
recognize this name. RememberKari Evanson? Mm hmm. Okay,
carries another extremelytalented photographer. And in
Wisconsin, Donna Green Bay Area,won competitions over and over
and over again. And I know onetime she and Darren and Scotty
(26:10):
and fuzzy and we Larson, and Bobbricco. We're all sitting at a
table at the bar afterwards,again, socialize us networking,
so to speak. And somebody cameto the table and made the
comment that, you know, how doyou do so well in competition
(26:30):
each year, and it's, it must bemust be nice to be that lucky.
And I think it was Darden thatkind of practice head over and
said, Yeah, but isn't it funnythat it's the same people, they
get lucky every single year,
Michael Mowbray (26:45):
right? It's not all luck all the time, there
comes a point in time when wecan all open our eyes and see
the people that really havetalent. And those are the people
that you should break barriersdown and not be intimidated by
them, and start asking themquestions and listening to their
answer. And then those are thepeople that watch on social
(27:08):
media to get ideas and thoughtsfrom not just the general
public, because they're postingon Facebook. My mantra has
always been because first thingpeople say is like, Well, you
know, just go look on YouTube.
It's like, well, there's goodstuff on YouTube, there's a lot
of crap on YouTube. So what areyou going to look at? And I
always say, look at the work. Soyou're going to go look at some
(27:31):
videos from somebody who's goingto show you lighting, great,
there's some good stuff, there'ssome bad stuff. If that person
gives their website, on theirchannel, go to their website,
take a look at their work, isthe work consistent? Is it
really good is it also the kindof stuff that you would like to
do? Okay, if all those thingsmarry together, then maybe go
(27:52):
watch some of the videos, but doa little bit of the due
diligence and do a little bit ofthe research, don't just go
watch 20 videos on off cameraflash, because first of all,
you're going to get 20 differentpoints of view. And out of those
20, I'm going to guarantee youat least 12 of them are pretty
much dead wrong from either atechnical or creative
(28:13):
standpoint. So then you're downto eight, now you're going to be
lucky to follow, you know, whichare those that you, you know,
that are correct, or are goingto be doing good work, and that
you can replicate andincorporate into your work. So,
you know, do a little duediligence, take a look at what
work that photographer or thosephotographers are doing. And
then ask yourself, Is thatsomething you want to do? And
(28:35):
then maybe take the next step?
Because even then, doesn't meanthey're good at teaching it
either. It's true, right? So
Dan Frievalt (28:45):
or on top of that I'll add another layer to that
is are they making some sort ofkickback from promoting a
particular item on YouTube,because they're getting the
viewership from YouTube. It's,it's a glorified affiliate link
or something that they'regetting a kickback from. So
(29:06):
they're like, Oh, you need thislight, and you need this, and
you need to do that, and blah,blah, blah. And then here's my
affiliate link, you know, and Ihave affiliate links and some
things I do get a referral fromsome a lot of affiliate links.
Now, it doesn't matter who youare. Everyone has an affiliate
link, because they want tospread it as much as possible.
It's not your, your following,you know, so just be aware of
(29:32):
that, you know, as well.
Michael Mowbray (29:33):
Absolutely.
Good point.
Carl Caylor (29:36):
So another part of networking in the idea that it's
nice to get to know people iswhen you do need help. Not just
like advice, but actual help.
There's people that have yourback. I mean, I've I've
photographed weddings, a coupleof weddings now. We've done
proms for people that have beensick or danza wine, oh yeah. On
Dan Frievalt (30:01):
this episode too much, too much pre podcast
chatter.
Carl Caylor (30:07):
I told you we should hit record right away.
But but really though we have,not only do we have each other's
back in this industry, you know,if something goes wrong, there's
somebody that can a lot of timesfill in for you and help you out
and keep your income coming in.
And beyond that, and we alreadytalked about PPA and being a
part of that association. Theyalso have insurance plans and
(30:31):
indemnification. So in casethings go wrong, that you have a
lot of staff at your, at yourback as well. So there's a lot
of really important networkingsituations with within these
groups, and especially in theprofessional photographers of
America. So something to keep inmind too, as you make your
(30:54):
choices as to what to belong to,or what to maybe pay dues for
sometimes.
Michael Mowbray (31:02):
Well, and maybe I mean, you kind of have a
laundry list of a little bithere, but let's drill down,
because we're all PPA members.
And we all hold PPA degrees. Sowe could talk about that. And we
all participate in printcompetition. And I'm you How
long have you guys been members?
I've been a member since 2005. Ithink? thousand four? 2005?
Dan Frievalt (31:25):
I have no idea.
2008.
Carl Caylor (31:30):
Okay, I'm
Michael Mowbray (31:31):
1073.
Carl Caylor (31:37):
I think my membership for myself is from
1995. And I was a member throughanother studio. Before that, I
think in 1992. Carlos first itprint competition images that
are 10 times
Dan Frievalt (31:50):
your last plate.
Unknown (31:56):
Yeah, well, you
Michael Mowbray (31:58):
did on that.
Yeah.
Dan Frievalt (32:02):
And this is kind of slightly off tangent, but use
print competition us justentering us, hey, I went to this
convention and furthering myeducation as marketing tools.
You don't have to win an award,you know, you. It's like, hey,
break and do on social media.
And I hate to say break. But Iremember I was grown, or we were
(32:23):
taught in our family, not tobreak kind of be humble and
stuff like that. But inbusiness, you have to learn to
somehow break. There's no otherway to say it. But it's
marketing. It's like, Hey, I'mat this convention, I'm learning
new things, I'm furthering myeducation. So your competition
maybe isn't doing that. So thatis something that can kind of
(32:44):
make you stand out, especiallywhen competition or I'm sorry,
when conventions are when maybeyou're not shooting as much. So
maybe your social media is alittle lacking. So it's like,
Hey, you know, and get pictureswith people and show that I'm
doing this and show that I'mlearning and furthering my
education or bring this back.
(33:04):
And if you do win an award greateven more that you can, you can
post and justify your pricing iswhere that comes down to as
well, which we can get in awhole nother tangent, but
there's so many differentlevels, to community and to
these groups, I guess is whatI'm getting at more than just
Hey, we get to get together andhave drinks and have lunch in.
(33:28):
But we
Unknown (33:29):
have to.
Michael Mowbray (33:30):
Yeah, that's very important. I learned that
PR lesson A long time ago,because well, first of all, if
you're not going to do your ownharm, nobody's going to you
know, do it for you.
Unknown (33:43):
But anyway, stop blowing my horn.
Michael Mowbray (33:47):
But um, I think my first print competition, I
got a I got a couple of redribbons, and I think I got a
brown one. And just in case youdon't know, you'll want the blue
ones and the purple ones. So butI got a couple red ribbons and
one of those awards ofexcellence seven there, Carl, I
know they call. I probably havea purple ones, the yellow, the
(34:10):
red ones.
Carl Caylor (34:12):
The red ones.
Remember what they're called.
Michael Mowbray (34:14):
I think it's Award of Excellence is what's
going on in Wisconsin. And so Isent a press release out that I
won a local photographer winseveral awards of excellence
from the Wisconsin professionalphotographers Association. They
ran the story
Carl Caylor (34:31):
ads. So funny you mentioned that because remember
there was another thing thatScotty I talked about Scotty
duper a lot on this because heis one of my original mentors
but he talked us into several ofus in Wisconsin to go with him
to study with Jay stock severalmany years ago. Jay stock if you
(34:51):
don't know the name, Google it,and then do some research. He is
absolutely incredible.
photographer was a wonderfuleducator He passed away this
last year, unfortunately. But Ihad the opportunity to go in and
spend some time with him at afour week with specialized hand
chosen groups, which was a lotof fun. But there was a time
(35:12):
when he usually he didn'tcompete and for years and years
and years, but when he did, hejust would rake it in. So he'd
go to the state and just, youknow, clean up and but he didn't
really say anything, he got backand it was what it was, he never
wrote to the paper, this isbefore social media. But his his
neighboring studio in the sametown that he was in, who got
(35:37):
entered the imaging, like hesaid, got brown ribbon or
whatever, it was like the, youknow, this is your participation
ribbon. And but they mentionedit, they sent a thing to the
paper. And it was all about thisguy that actually did the
article and or sent the in thearticle that he got this
(35:59):
participant he was at Ohio Statephotography convention, he
participated in and got theseall these award winning images
and Jays, like, I want everycategory. But, but nobody knew
because he didn't toot his ownhorn, you know, he didn't, he
didn't market it. And so it wasa good lesson. I mean, it's
(36:21):
probably one of the betterlessons and I mean, I learned a
lot of photography from him. Butthat was probably one of the
best lessons I learned at, youknow, while studying with Jay is
to sometimes you need to reallyget away from the humbleness and
that's really hard for me. Iknow you guys are in the same
boat too. And I think I've beenthinking about that more and
(36:43):
more lately. In that. You know,Dan, you always say hire
somebody to do the things thatyou don't want to do or not good
at? You should actually justhire a I know it sounds really
stupid or bad but hire apublicist.
Dan Frievalt (36:58):
Yeah, this is PR person. Yeah,
Carl Caylor (36:59):
yeah. Cuz I just I really, it's not me. But but but
it's, it's a necessary evil, youknow, because we're not just
creatives, we're a business, tomake money and to get more
people through the door. Andusing our networking and our
status within the industry isprobably a good way to keep that
moving. So Sure.
Michael Mowbray (37:20):
So just to kind of sum that up, if you're, you
know, sitting at home, and youwork by yourself, we're
basically giving you permissionto you know, be there tooting
your own horn anyway as
Carl Caylor (37:32):
you can, right now to listen to this on your radio,
while driving, stay between thelines, don't hit any deer. And
listen to what we say. If youtoot your own horn too much.
Will you go deaf?
Dan Frievalt (37:47):
to your heart in the woods? Anyone
Unknown (37:49):
here? Okay,
Michael Mowbray (37:55):
okay. Culture, man, his own horn in the woods.
Is he still wrong? anyway?
Carl Caylor (38:00):
Yes, I saw I saw that mean, actually, there's a
sign about that. So the signWell, it's at my sister in law's
place. So maybe it's notcompletely true. But
Michael Mowbray (38:11):
so we talk, we talk about organizations,
because, you know, that's what'sreally helped us. And
conferences, it's really helpedus. But there seems to be and we
know this from all theconferences we go to and get
contacted by to go speak, thatthere's fewer and fewer
attendees. Yet, there are moreand more photographers now than
(38:35):
at any other time in history.
What up with that? Why aren'tpeople join him? And what can
what can we do other than thekind of some of the stuff we're
talking about here in thispodcast? What? What can we do
and work and other people'speople's look at other people's
dues? To thank Michael, I know,dude, he gets to get more
(38:56):
participation in local, state,regional whatever. Because I
think a lot of people do relyjust on social media and their
Facebook groups. And that's onlygoing to get you so far.
Dan Frievalt (39:10):
Yeah, you know, I think it's between social media,
YouTube, you know, onlinelearning, and people. There's
more photographers, but I don'tknow if there's as many full
time photographers as back inthe day, there was a lot more
full time photographers and bigstudios. Now I feel like there's
a lot of people doing it parttime and have a full time job
(39:34):
for the benefits and things likethat. So it's a little bit
harder to break away and do inperson conventions and things
like that. So sadly, a lot oflike you said the the local and
stuff are kind of dwindling,because there's just not enough
interest in that, you know, or,you know, part of it is kind of
looked down on as you said,we've been around a while, but
(39:56):
sometimes that's a detriment tous. It's like Oh, the old fuddy
duddy guys, you know you want tothe hip cool, sexy imagery and
all that stuff. And that that iscool as well. So it's just not
as cool, I guess. Uh, hang withus old fuddy duddy. Guys.
Michael Mowbray (40:18):
Let me the way I'm looking at your face as you
say that you visibly aged.
Carl Caylor (40:26):
Well, he was tired.
Dan Frievalt (40:29):
Tired after that, yeah, well remember, for so
many, so many years as likeDan's young guy, he's, we gotta
you know, we got to lean inagain. This young guy like I'm
not young. I'm older. What doyou think I am?
Michael Mowbray (40:41):
You said that to me. Once after a board
meeting at the state ofWisconsin. It's like, Can you
keep calling me the young guy islike, Damn, looking around the
room. In this room, the young
Dan Frievalt (40:54):
so there so so there's a thing. Surround
yourself with people that areolder than you and you're gonna
feel a lot hipper, younger.
Carl Caylor (41:04):
Oh, remember Billy, she always said if you want to
look good, stand next tosomebody that's not good
looking. So she, Emily's anotherone of my mentors.
Michael Mowbray (41:13):
Just went a long time with her. Did she
stand near you a lot?
Carl Caylor (41:17):
Yeah, she does. Um, no, she, she sent us a Christmas
card every year. And the lastyear, she said, I'm getting so
old and so many wrinkles that tomake myself look good. She She
and her studio partner sent acard of toasting with martini
glasses. And right behind him isthe back end of an elephant. So
(41:42):
in the caption, it sayssomething like, No, we are
equals don't look that bad atall compared to what's behind us
or something like that. It'slike that south end of a
northbound elephant. But yeah,she's quite individual. You
know, what do I think that? Youknow, there is less people out
there? because like you said,there are our letters, more
photographers. Absolutely. Andbut there are definitely less
(42:06):
full time. And in there is Iknow, I mean, all my week long
classes, whether it's TexasSchool, or west coast, or
whatever workshop or school thatI'm teaching that most of the
people in that class are parttimers, they're people that
decided or retirees that wantsomething different, or they're
(42:27):
picking up a camera, which iswonderful, that's great. But
each and every one withoutexception, wants to learn more
about this craft. And I followthem after class is out. Even I
have Facebook groups for ourspecific classes. And I still
get the same questions all thetime. And I can see that people
(42:50):
just aren't listening to or justaren't hearing exactly
everything I say. And it's notthe technical things that
they're missing, or the thingsthat I taught them in class, the
thing that I told them thatthey're not listening to, is to
get involved with localorganization, because if they
just did that, their educationwould continue. tenfold year
(43:11):
round. So I mean, it just,they're like, well, I just don't
get this yet. I don't get theset. I know you don't get this
because it takes time. But thetime is shaving off. So
exponentially. I said that withwith after drinking too. By the
way, I was very impressed withmyself for that exponentially
twice. I said it. That is a lotof syllables. If you get
(43:35):
together with people in person,every month, it is amazing how
much quicker you get all thisstuff. It's amazing how much
more the light bulb goes on.
It's amazing how much betteryour work gets faster. Online
just doesn't do it. I mean, it'sa great avenue for a lot of
things and get ideas into to getsome things but you just can't
(43:57):
get everything in photography.
Virtually it just is notpossible. You have to be hands
on and watching people it's likegoing, I just got back from the
mountains in Colorado. And youknow, I didn't want to drag my
camera with me. I mean, I wasthere to go fishing and enjoy
the hikes with my aunt and uncleand my wife and I don't want to
(44:21):
I didn't want to bring a camerabut I brought my iPhone. And I
took pictures of things that forthe for the family, you know,
things that show where we wereand what we were doing and what
we're catching and stuff likethat. And it still didn't do it
justice. Even as I was takingpictures of my iPhone, I was
thinking myself even if I had mygood equipment, you just can't
(44:43):
all 100% of the time capture theamazement of the Colorado,
Colorado Rocky Mountains. Itjust doesn't happen. And virtual
learning of photography comparedto in person is so similar to
that you Just can't get it allyou just it just, there's
nothing you can do to capturewhat you really get when you're
(45:05):
in person with everybody andbumping elbows with some of the
best people in the world, inyour industry that some of its
going to rub off. So I there'sno way of just forcing people
but by Gosh, do yourself a favorif you want to continue to learn
and learn faster in thisindustry. Go get involved with a
local group or a state group ora national group and be there in
(45:28):
person and get involved with itand put something into it so
that you get more back. That'sstraight up.
Michael Mowbray (45:36):
No bullshit on Michael Mowbray and I support
this message.
Dan Frievalt (45:39):
Yeah, Jeff, Jeff to Mike if it means wearing a
hazmat suit so you can bumpelbows and rub up against Hey,
you're still gonna learn more.
Michael Mowbray (45:48):
So parting shots from any of you guys? He
does a pretty good wrap up rightthere.
Dan Frievalt (45:51):
Yeah, I think I think Carl did the My job is
that
Carl Caylor (45:55):
I was on a ranch.
Dan Frievalt (45:58):
Double fist in Colorado, Mike. I heard john
Denver in the background when hewas talking. Colorado, Colorado,
Rocky Mountain.
Carl Caylor (46:09):
I was thinking about that as we were walking a
grass gasping for air at 12,000feet and going I don't know how
the fish breathe up here becauseI can't breathe but Jesus Christ
but Yeah, we did.
Dan Frievalt (46:21):
By the way. Hey, you know where fish go when it's
raining? were under the bridge.
So
Unknown (46:29):
there you go.
Michael Mowbray (46:32):
That's funny, because it's true.
Dan Frievalt (46:36):
What is the fish say when you ran into this event
wall? dam.
Michael Mowbray (46:44):
So these dad jokes in honor of Dan rose
birthday.
Dan Frievalt (46:47):
Yes, it is his birthday today is Deborah's
Carl Caylor (46:51):
birthday. So where does Napoleon keep his armies?
Yeah,
Unknown (46:56):
it is.
Oh,
Michael Mowbray (47:02):
that's actually a little dad jokes. That's my I
told my daughter that when shewas in high school, died.
Carl Caylor (47:09):
Okay, you guys, you'll get a kick out of this.
Speaking of groups, and beingpart of things, my wife. I don't
know how she arranged this. Butshe is now in a group on social
media of stupid dad jokes. Idon't know how she got into it.
(47:30):
People let her in. But she's oncorny dad jokes, and coming up
with all these doozies. But theother one the one that she did
the other day and my brothers.
My brother is a commercial diverwas a commercial diver back in
the day. So this was for him. SoI said, you know, why do scuba
divers always fall backwards outof a boat?
Unknown (47:51):
No,
Carl Caylor (47:52):
because if they fell forward, they'd still be in
the boat.
Unknown (47:56):
It's
Michael Mowbray (47:57):
that's pretty bad. is I'm just wondering Okay.
What did Teresa search for onFacebook groups that she found
is a stupid dad jokes becauseI'm thinking getting started
with stupid dad.
Carl Caylor (48:15):
No, that would be my daughter. Because you know as
a dad if you have a daughteryou're gonna go from stupid to I
love you too. I stupid. You'rethe meanest person in the world
too. I love you. You're so cool.
All within like I don't twominutes. No, I every single day
and I and maybe I'm the only onelike that. But
Michael Mowbray (48:36):
we had that.
That was seventh grade. And thenwent on so then she's been great
ever since. So I want I wantedto you know, sell her off when
she was selling. But afterthat's been great. So and her
birthday this week. Happybirthday, Brianna. So Oh, happy
birthday is halfway to 50 that'swhy we're just I just got caught
here. Yeah. She's like, Wow,thanks. That makes me feel
(49:00):
great. Happy birthday, Dan row,just in case you forgot that. It
was loud enough. It was I don'tknow more than halfway to the
century. I don't know. Anyway,so every week we have a sponsor,
and this week's sponsor ispumpkin dribbling. Pumpkin
dribbling beer from CoronadoBrewing Company in San Diego.
drinks like a warm baked pieceof pumpkin bread with soft
(49:23):
touches of brown sugar, andsmooth vanilla notes followed by
autumns favorite flavors.
Perfect for fall, or even justfalling down. It's pumpkin drum
lick from Coronado brewing.
Dan Frievalt (49:40):
Yeah, I actually that's probably the best one
sounds I think it is. And ifthere's a wines talking to me,
I'm hungry. It's been a longday, but action sounds
delicious. Yeah.
Michael Mowbray (49:50):
Does I've tried pumpkins or different pumpkin
beer before and it was not good.
But this one actually soundsgood.
Dan Frievalt (49:58):
I'm not a fan of pumpkin spice. person but this
thing sound like add spice. Oh,so
Carl Caylor (50:03):
I hope this isn't seasonal because next year when
I'm teaching at West Coastschool in San Diego, maybe we
can go and take a tour of theirplace and get some beer. Oh,
Michael Mowbray (50:12):
yeah, yeah, right there in San Diego. So
look it up.
Carl Caylor (50:16):
So Paul right after my favorite school, so why not?
Michael Mowbray (50:19):
All right.
Well, that's all we got for thisweek, guys. So Till next time,
cheers do
Unknown (50:24):
Cheers. Cheers.
Last call.
Michael Mowbray (50:29):
You've been listening to the photo happy
hour podcast. Be sure to hitthat subscribe button to not
miss a single action packedepisode. And join our photo
happy hour Facebook group wherewe'll post links to the stuff we
all talk about. You can find mymo like gear online at www dot
gomo life.com. That's geo mo Ligh t.com You can find the
(50:51):
Facebook page under MoLightstore and I also run the Godox
flash help group on Facebook.
You can find Dan SR on lockwebsite at www dot seniors
unlocked.com that's seniors withan S at the end unlocked.com and
the Facebook group under seniorsunlocked and you can find Carl's
coaching corner@www.cc photocoach comm cc photo coach.com
(51:13):
Till next time, cheers to you.
Liam (51:34):
I don't know who you are.
I don't know what you want. Ifyou want me to pay you to
subscribe, I can tell you Idon't have money. But what I do
have are a very particular setof skills, skills I have
acquired over a very long careerskills that make me a nightmare
for people like you. If yousubscribe now, that will be the
(51:57):
end of it. I will not look foryou. I will not pursue you. But
if you don't, I will look foryou. I will find you and I will
annoy you
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