October 16, 2025 • 43 mins
We sit down with Erich Walters, VP of Enterprise Sales at Loopio, to dig into hiring for mindset over process, measuring clock speed under pressure, and making decisive calls when the quarter is on the line. We also explore AI handoffs, long-game recruiting, and why relationships still matter.
• Erich’s path from Gartner mentorship to team-building philosophy
• hiring great talent as the leader’s top priority
• mindset versus process and how to test it
• resilience, purpose and clock speed in interviews
• the P-Club interview question
• preparation as a filter for enterprise credibility
• outbound talent nurturing and memorable outreach
• relationships as leverage in an AI-first world
• automating AE-to-AM handoffs
Check out the Linkedin Post that inspired the episode HERE
Music by Ben Cina & Ayler Young
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Pillar Talk where we build thefoundations of sales leadership
success and attempt to createclarity in terms of what good
looks like for current andaspiring leaders.
Just a quick review of thepillars.
We talk about talentidentification and attraction.
(00:36):
Both are difficult.
We talk about the operatingrhythm with which the leader
runs the team, which is measuredin my mind by motivation,
engagement, and accountability.
We talk about business planning,which is planning for the future
rather than reacting to thethings that are happening to
you.
It's actually pretty difficultto do the former and easy to do
the latter.
Mastering the craft, which iscoaching the team and helping
(00:59):
them win.
Communication and ownership.
Today we are fortunate to haveEric Walters as our guest.
Eric is the VP of EnterpriseSales at Lupio.
He leads the strategy, he'sdoing hiring, he's doing tons of
coaching, he's executing at avery high level on large
enterprise deals across theentire company.
Prior to that, Eric was the VPof sales at Wise Systems.
(01:22):
He led go-to-market efforts andenterprise sales there.
And in addition to hisimpressive sales leadership
background, Eric is anentrepreneur.
And outside of just doing theSaaS leadership thing, he runs
and founded Timely Souls, acurated luxury watch and also
sneaker venture that he launchedin 2023.
(01:43):
Eric, thank you for joiningPillar Talk.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
Hey, thanks so much for the invite, Rick, and great
to see you again.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Eric, what did sales leadership and just the world
we're living in today teach youthat helped you build the
confidence to actually go launchyour own entrepreneurial
endeavor?
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Yeah.
So I, you know, my career insales started really, I think,
when I was a kid.
I always had like a passion foruh convincing my parents to let
me do something.
I was that kid that was not likegetting kicked out of school,
but getting in trouble atschool.
(02:21):
And so I had to work my waythrough different privileges
with my parents and convincethem that they should trust me
to do something when maybe myactions hadn't said otherwise at
school.
So that ability to influence wassomething that I had to really
learn quickly as a kid if Iwanted to actually do anything.
And um, and as I grew up, um, Istarted collecting cards and
(02:42):
like kind of alternativeinvestment stuff.
So sports memorabilia, baseballcards.
That eventually evolved into uhsneakers, which evolved into
watches as well.
I'm now into like kind of carsnow as well.
So big into alternative assetsprimarily because I always got
super bored by watching uhinvestments grow on a computer
(03:02):
uh spreadsheet or whatever,right?
Just like there's nothing thatappealed to me about investing
in a company and watching thestock grow.
I would prefer to actuallyexperience the assets that can
also appreciate and value.
And so um I think sneakers arehorrible investments.
I don't recommend anybody try toinvest in sneakers, but you can
(03:24):
actually invest in luxurywatches and do pretty well.
And you can wear them on yourwrists, they're great networking
tools, uh, and they're also ahedge against inflation, and
they do uh trend with the priceof gold.
So, you know, a lot of veryimportant current uh themes in
today's world.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Awesome.
Uh Eric, we had uh, you know, Ihad the good fortune of been
able to work with you in thepast.
I observed as a sales leader uhsome of the attributes that made
you effective is just sort ofone discipline always observed
you being consistent and youknow your work ethic and
consistency of just being on topof things and creating the right
(04:01):
environment.
Um and then recently I saw thatyou posted on LinkedIn about
hiring.
And so you are in a time rightnow where you're trying to bring
new people into theorganization.
We know how leveraged of a betthat is.
And you posted about here arethe 11 questions that I ask in
every interview.
What was the background on howthat came together?
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
So uh I've actually been in thefortunate position um at Lupio
this year where I actually havebeen actively hiring.
There's not a lot oforganizations out there that are
hiring as much as we are rightnow.
So it's a really fortunateposition.
And as as I've been involved inhiring so consistently this
year, it compelled me to kind ofput this post out on LinkedIn
(04:45):
and share some of uh what Ithink is working uh in the
process.
But where this all came from wasum really kind of back to my
days at Gartner.
So uh Gartner um researchadvisory company, it was my
first uh role in management, inleadership, and they had some
outstanding training there.
(05:07):
And I also had some outstandingmentors in that business as well
that really has influenced how Ihire, retain, coach, develop
talent since then.
And one of the mostinspirational leaders that I
worked with, um, a guy namedPeter Prasico, he was the uh
managing vice president for theNortheast.
(05:28):
And um, I remember uh Peterecruiting me to be a manager.
Um I initially declined becauseI was so excited about the
upcoming year as an individualcontributor and what I could
contribute there, the money Icould make there, uh, but he
eventually convinced me tobecome a manager.
Uh so I want to give Pete thatshout out.
Um, you know, look at me now.
(05:50):
Uh but one of the things thatPete always uh always talked to
me about, like first andforemost, it's always about
hiring great talent.
Always about hiring greattalent.
And and I actually worked foranother manager uh before I
became uh a leader at Gartner,his name was Scott Rose.
And um he I thought was the bestmanager I've ever seen at being
(06:16):
able to hire and assemble just arecord-breaking team.
And I and I remember talking tomy wife uh and just observing
like Scott's work habits.
And Scott wasn't afraid to takea vacation, he wasn't afraid to
take a little bit of time offbecause he trusted his team.
(06:36):
And I remember my wife alwayspointing that out to me.
She's like, Eric, you can take aweek off of work and not feel
about it, not feel bad about it,right?
Look at what Scott does.
And and so I didn't quiteconnect the dots on that because
I was such a young manager.
I felt like I had to be in thebusiness every day, like getting
my hands dirty, being the supermanager to prove that I belonged
(06:59):
in the management position tothe people that I hired.
Um, and as I've matured as amanager, um, that that has
changed and it's also influencedthe way that I hire so that I
actually create my own teams nowthat are modeled after that
incredible team that Scott Rosebuilt and uh inspired by just
(07:22):
the importance of hiring greattalent that I learned from Pete
Prisco uh back, you know, 10 or12 years ago, uh, maybe a little
bit more.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
So what were some of the things you observed that
Pete and Scott you know did?
What are some of the earlytakeaways?
Because it's hard to justcopy-paste.
Like you'd learn some things,and then of course you're gonna
have to stumble a bit along yourway and learn some of the
lessons through experience.
SPEAKER_02 (07:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the the most importantlesson that I learned from them
was that getting to the numbersis first and foremost about
getting the right people on yourteam.
And I remember Pete uh pullingme into an office.
He says, Eric, what's the mostimportant thing that you do as a
manager?
My response was, Pete, get to myquota, of course.
(08:06):
And he's like, Yeah, you'reright, but that's actually not
the most important thing thatyou do.
The most important thing you dois you hire great talent.
And he would always sit downwith me and be like, Eric, rank
me, rank your team to me.
Who's who's first?
Who's number one in your team?
Who's last on your team?
And whoever's last on your team,are you performance managing
them?
Are you looking for the nextnumber one guy?
(08:26):
Right?
So the conversations with himwere not always about this deal,
the forecast, the quarter.
It was, Eric, tell me about yourteam.
What do you like about them?
How are you coaching them today?
How do you stack rank them?
And how can I help you?
Right.
Um, that was really uh inspiringto me and kind of set me on the
(08:50):
trajectory of I was still a veryyoung manager, so I didn't quite
understand it.
But as I've matured, it's becomesomething that I constantly
think back to and tap into in myown hiring practices and as I
shape my team here at Lupio.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
All right, so how do we connect the idea that like as
a manager, it is about the team,the team that you assemble, the
team that you manage along theway.
What about those lessons aroundhow to actually build that team?
Is the go out and find thetalent proactively?
Is it assessment around it?
Obviously, it's probably a bitof both.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
Like yeah, it's certainly a bit of both.
I mean, you you've got to havethe experience uh to get the
interview, but but to actuallyget the job, um, you've got to
demonstrate uh the right traitsand behaviors that um I know
when you come into anenvironment uh and you are
(09:44):
coachable, uh, that I can enableyou to thrive and to be
successful.
So, you know, first andforemost, it really comes down
to mindset, growth mindset isthe most important thing.
And actually, this is a questionthat I ask every candidate that
I meet with.
I ask them, I say, what's moreimportant?
Mindset or process?
(10:07):
Um I I won't automaticallydisqualify a candidate if they
say process, um, but it's gonnabe an uphill battle for them to
win my favor if they thinkprocess is more important,
because I'm I so passionatelybelieve that success, not only
in sales, but generally in life,is about your mindset.
(10:27):
And that 90% of every outcomethat you're working towards,
it's it's your attitude towardsit.
And if you've got that mindsetthat uh allows you to be
coachable and to um reflect onlike your experiences and know
that you can shape those andthat you can control what you
can control.
You've got the right attitude,the confidence, the conviction,
(10:49):
the courage, the grit, theresilience, like all those
ingredients that go into awinning mindset.
Um, you can be successfulanywhere.
You just need to be in the rightenvironment.
You need to have the rightleader to like unleash that
talent to be successful.
So I'm always pleased whencandidates immediately answer
mindset, and I will tell themthat I think that's the right
(11:12):
answer.
And they kind of give me theirexplanation for why.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
And hopefully there's a story around that as
well, like an example of howthat mindset has been a part of
whether it be adversity ordifficult deals in the past, if
we're talking about a salescapacity or that type of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a there's always astory that goes with it.
It's typically some type of lossuh that they learned from.
Uh, because I think in sales,uh, we lose a lot more uh than
we win.
And our success over the longrun is our response to that
loss.
Um uh my manager Scott Roseactually told me something that
(11:51):
I still tell my team today.
Spend five minutes in victoryand spend five minutes in
defeat.
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
It's difficult to spend five minutes in defeat and
five minutes in victory, butthat's five minutes in victory
is easy, five days in defeat iseasy as well.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
I know, I know, but but you gotta but you gotta
learn from from thoseexperiences and and those
losses, and that that issomething that uh that I
definitely expect.
And and something else that'sreally important here is that
like if you think about it thisway, right?
So like um most organizationshave a sales process, and if
they don't, I'm sure they'reworking on building one.
And so like you have 10 repsthat are all following the same
(12:28):
sales process, then why are thelevels of performance different,
right?
So like they all know theprocess.
Why is one guy or galoverachieving while one guy or
gal is is underachieving?
I I'm extremely confident it'sjust their mindset.
And you know, are they adaptableto certain situations?
Are are they reflective in thelosses?
(12:48):
How quickly do they rebound fromthe losses?
How can they bring convictionand enthusiasm to every
conversation, no matter howthey're feeling that day?
Um, you know, how how muchenergy they bringing on Monday
mornings, like those are thedifference makers to me that
they're gonna set your topperformers apart from everybody
else.
And that's what I really try tolook for in the interview
(13:10):
process is you know, the folkswith those types of traits that
uh knowing that um you knowtough times don't last, but
tough people do.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
And let's dig into those traits a bit.
I mean, you just talked aboutwhat I would describe as
resilience, you talked aboutenergy, which is a bit of that
charisma, and you know, being alittle bit more, I always say be
more memorable, um, which is away of you know doing that.
What are some of the just if wego down into that mindset that
you're looking for, what aresome of the attributes that are
most important to you?
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
Yeah, I I think that uh resilience and perseverance
is extremely important.
That's right at the top of mylist, right?
So like I will always ask aquestion centered around like,
what are your long-term goals?
And then tell me the last timethat you didn't achieve a goal.
What did you do?
(13:59):
And it it's a it's aninteresting kind of flip in the
interview process because wespend a few minutes talking
about long-term goals that thecandidate has set for
themselves, and we're talkingabout the positive, the
aspirational, the future.
And then I immediately reversethe psychology on.
I say, well, when's the lasttime you missed a goal?
(14:19):
What did you do?
How did you adapt?
What did you learn?
And in that is uh, I think oneof the most important questions
that I asked in the interviewprocess because it gives me a
sense of like, A, are theyactually real about setting
goals?
And B, um, how painful are theexperiences that they've had
(14:42):
when they've missed something?
And how quickly are they able toaccount for uh that miss?
And how accurately are they ableto describe uh what they learn
from that experience?
So like I'm measuring the gritand the resilience in that
question, but I'm also measuringthe clock speed of the candidate
(15:03):
as well.
Um, because I think clock speedis extremely important,
especially enterprise sellersworking with large multinational
organizations, engaging withexecutives, you better be quick,
you better be um you better beable to ask the right questions,
you better be able to challenge,you better be able to reflect in
(15:23):
the moment.
And so that clock speed in thesetypes of questions is also
something that's important forme to measure because every
engagement that I'm having withthem in the interview process,
I'm I'm imagining how are theyhow is this going to translate
into an actual deal.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
And by clock speed, you mean like the pace with
which they're reacting andanswering your question?
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Correct.
Yeah, correct.
So think about Jeopardy, right?
Like you got you got what, likethree seconds to answer the
question in Jeopardy, right?
So like the the clock speed,precisely.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Got it.
Because you're picturing them infront of an executive that's
impatient and is going to switchoff and you know, credibility
out the window if that clockspeed doesn't match theirs.
SPEAKER_02 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah.
We we have to be able to make uhstrong impressions quickly, and
we've got to be sharp.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
Um, do you view long-term goals as prerequisite
for performance in an enterprisesales capacity?
I find that many don't havestrong long-term goals.
What are you looking for there?
SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
Wow.
So um, yes, I think it's hugelyimportant.
And this actually comes down tosomething else that I haven't
brought up yet, but but it's agreat question.
Um sense of purpose, right?
So resilience in grit isn't areaction in and of itself, it
has to be founded and grown outof something.
(16:46):
And that something is yourpurpose, right?
So um my purpose is to make surethat my, you know, what when I
was a kid, my dad always saidthat he wanted to have X, Y, Z.
He couldn't give it to us.
So here I am, I've got thisamazing sales career and this
(17:08):
amazing opportunity.
I can actually find anopportunity, give that to my
family.
And that's what I tap into.
And my goal is to be able to getthere and achieve that.
And so like I want to understandthrough the interview process to
tap into the why behind themotivations.
Because like what when I like aquestion that I ask even before
(17:28):
the long-term goal one is like,hey, sales is really tough.
Like, what do you tap into tokeep going?
Right?
How do you do that?
And if I get like reallysurface-level question or
answers to that question, I'llI'll always double-click on it
because I really want tounderstand what it is.
And then I try to understand,okay, well, this is the purpose
they tap into.
Are they actually able to attachtheir long-term goals to that
(17:50):
purpose?
And and I have found um, youknow, with with the uh you know,
the recent hires that we've madehere at Lupio that everybody was
able to answer that question uhvery, very directly uh and with
the right amount of detail thatI would expect.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
So it isn't necessarily the goals in and of
themselves, it's the clarity foryou and understanding what's
motivating people, what is theirdriver, what is their purpose.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right.
Because back to the originalpoint, I hire on the behaviors
and I hire on how well thiscandidate's mindset is tuned,
and the the sense of purpose andhaving a recognition for what
that for what that sense ofpurpose is uh to get you through
(18:37):
the tough times is reallyimportant for me to be able to
identify that they haveidentified it.
Because when they have that,that's going to be something
that inevitably it's gonna bewe're gonna run into some
difficulty when we're workingtogether.
How is that person, or what isthat person gonna tap into to
(18:57):
keep going?
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
I mean, I imagine that the answer is often some
type of like to provide for myfamily, support my family type
of variant.
Is that typically what you see?
SPEAKER_02 (19:07):
It is, and it and and I don't, I, I, I don't
accept that.
I I I dig further because thatis not an acceptable answer.
And I say, and I in the way thatI reply to that, I say, look,
um, everybody says that.
Everybody obviously wants toprovide for their family, um,
everybody wants to go buy ahome, right?
(19:27):
But what what what is the what'sthe why behind that?
Like, why is that so important?
And when you start to dig in andyou can do it in a you know very
diplomatic, curiosity-driventype of way, candidates don't
get offended by it, but theyappreciate your interest in
learning more about theirsituation.
(19:49):
And I think that in theinterview process, they're
assessing you just as much asyou're assessing them.
And in your ability to bringthis level of cure, genuine
curiosity to the interview issomething that they'll reflect
on uh at the end.
And I think these 11 questionsthat I posted on LinkedIn, this
is actually a way for you as aninterviewer to distinguish
(20:13):
yourself from the othercompanies that are that this
candidate may be may be meetingwith.
Because I'll tell you, nearlyevery time I finish going
through these questions with acandidate interview, they nearly
always say, I've never hadanybody ask me those types of
questions in an interviewbefore.
And um and I love and enjoy theconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
Yeah, it I mean, a lot of what this is about is
getting past the surface level.
A lot of it is about getting tothe real sort of drivers and
motivators and um behaviors ofsomebody, and you're in a
position to understand whatthat's gonna be like for them in
a role, and you're trying tosort of get the real of like how
who they are so that you can putthem in that context and see is
(20:57):
that gonna be a win foreverybody?
Because it's not just aboutbeing a win for the company,
it's about being a win for theindividual.
Getting a bad hire is not onlybad for your company and your
job, it's bad for the person.
Like everybody loses in thattype of context.
So the stakes are super high.
Um, you you you when you'relooking for, you know, you
talked about the question aroundum they didn't achieve a goal.
(21:18):
Is the is the the motivationthere around authenticity and
just sort of self-awareness?
Like, like what are you lookingfor there?
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Yeah, it it is, it is for sure.
You know, I I I want to makesure that the candidate isn't
isn't the type of person thatcomes off and says, hey, I've
never missed a goal.
It's it's like the candidatethat and and I've talked to some
candidates that have actuallydone this where you ask them,
like, hey, tell me about a dealthat you lost and and what did
(21:46):
you learn from it?
And and they actually can't eventhink of one.
And I'm like, What do you meanyou can't think of a deal that
you lost?
Like, I I literally stillremember my most painful deals
from 15 years ago.
Those are my favorite stories.
Yeah, yeah, totally, right?
So, like, I you you you gottahave an answer to that question
uh so that you're able to um youknow show that like you're
(22:08):
reflective and and mostimportantly, you're somebody
that um learns from mistakes,right?
So I think all of thesesituations are ones where
there's been um some type ofmistake or some type of lesson
learned.
And and those are the mostpowerful moments in your career,
which come after the losses, andhow do you adapt yourself and
(22:28):
your business after the loss tobe able to uh adapt and win in
the future?
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
Yeah.
So it's it's about not only arewe going into that resilience
area, but it's about that growthmindset and continuing to learn
from it so we don't repeat thesame mistakes again and that
type of thing.
Um, so all right, we've we'vewe've hit a couple of those
questions, and of course, I'llshare um you know the link to
the post so that anybody can seethem.
But what are some of the onesthat stand out here that are
like the things you get the mostexcited to drill into the
(22:57):
conversations with candidates?
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So my my favorite question isone.
So I was actually in a I was inlike a manager mentoring program
at Gartner, and and I got pairedup with um a manager in Sweden,
and uh, and I had like uhbi-weekly just mentor calls with
(23:19):
him, and uh and I was doing alot of hiring at the time, so I
was like curious, I was like,all right, what do they do in
Sweden to interview sales guysand gals, right?
And I was like, you know, tellme what you do, what are some of
the questions that you ask?
And the the question that heshared with me remains like my
favorite interview question tothis day.
(23:40):
And so it it's a scenario whereit's going to make any candidate
squirm and uh and think deeplyabout how they want to answer
this question.
So here's the question, right?
So it's it's the final day ofyour fiscal year, and you have a
deal that's gonna get you to PClub, and it's gonna get your
(24:03):
company to plan.
Okay.
So it's the only deal left.
And you're on the phone withyour prospect, and they tell
you, hey, I can get this dealdone now, but the pressure that
you're placing on us, it'sactually gonna put the
relationship on the rocks fromthe start.
So my question to the candidateis like, do you press for the
(24:24):
deal or do you let it move intothe new fiscal year to save the
relationship?
And I pause.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Hold on.
Yeah, all right, good, good,because I'm I'm gonna attempt to
answer this.
Okay, great.
Yeah, playful about it.
But I'm gonna be candid here fora minute.
I'm getting that damn deal,Eric.
That's the right answer.
That's the right answer.
And Rick, you you would be Imean, it's an uncomfortable,
(24:51):
like, I feel almost bad in theway that you framed it, but it's
like, well, listen, it's puttingit a little bit on the rocks,
but like, we're gonna get thisdone.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Yeah, look, 100% that's the right answer.
And I'll tell you, the the bestsalespeople I've hired,
immediately like, I get thedeal.
But I I find the vast majorityof candidates are not that
decisive in the answer to thatquestion.
And and so they're like, well,the the the answer that I get
(25:21):
most of the time is it depends.
It really just depends, and youknow, the the relationship is
important, and you never want tostart off on the wrong foot.
And I tell them, and I let themkind of think it out and play it
out, and then I and then Iultimately will kind of share
like my perspective on it.
But yeah, it's like, look, youyou you are you're in sales,
(25:41):
you're paid to get the deal,you're paid to close business.
So get the deal, and you have atleast a year to fix the
relationship, probably two orthree years to fix the
relationship, right?
So that that's the correctanswer.
And um, I would say probably 30%of candidates that I talk to
(26:06):
will say, yes, I get the deal.
Uh, probably 60% are like itdepends, and they waffle and
they don't give me a straightanswer, and then the remaining
percent are um, no offense, um,service-based sellers that
should probably go into CS.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
Um, well, I'm thankful.
I'm feeling good no matter what.
Oh, yeah.
That like I've, you know, thatis a well-framed, and you make
it comfortable for the responderto that question to not say get
the deal.
And so you're looking forsomeone that's like, yeah, yeah,
I get that there's all thisstuff going on.
(26:46):
We got a deal to go get, like,and the the sort of tunnel
vision and the urgency that'srequired in order to like it's
sales, is especially enterprisesales, is pushing the boulder
uphill every single day.
And I always joked around thatenterprise sales, you only close
the deal when all the joy isgone.
Only when all the joy ispossibly gone, is it now set up
(27:09):
for the deal to win?
And so if you don't have themindset of like go get the deal,
nothing in here was ethicallychallenging.
It's just like, hey, it's justgonna be tough.
Like, yeah, um, that is a great,great question.
So um, which leads to anotherone, which is like, how much do
you know about me?
Which is about preparation anddoing your research.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
And now anybody that's gonna interview with in
the future, they you've giventhe answers to the test here,
well, what's funny is um I postso I posted this uh uh post on
LinkedIn, and right as I was inthe midst of interviewing a lot
of candidates, and there were Ithink two that actually read the
(27:54):
post and kind of knew where Iwas gonna be going with my
questions, but nobody else has,right?
So it's actually it actually isa little bit surprising because
one of the first questions thatI ask everybody is like, how
much do you know about me?
Right?
And and I asked that becauselike how could you show up to an
(28:15):
interview without knowing yourinterviewer and at least
spending a little bit of time toget to know them beyond the you
know rapport building stuff?
Because you know what, if that'stheir approach to an interview
with me, what are they gonna dowhen they're preparing for that
C-level meeting?
It's gonna be the same approach.
And it's like, dude, you're it'sprobably not gonna work out here
(28:36):
if you're not actually evendoing your research on me.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, all right, we're not gonnahit every single one of them.
I think that was a fantasticsort of overview of some key
ones and what you're thinkingabout.
I'm gonna sort of incorporatesome of these into my uh
interviewing.
I wanted to ask you a little bitjust about hiring.
How much time are you spendinggoing outbound and attempting to
get candidates that fit aprofile that you're interested
(29:02):
in versus you know, receivingthe inbound flow of candidates?
And how do you find balancebetween your pursuit of because
you can, you know, like you cango and find people that have
maybe it's industry experience,maybe it's like sales
background, but you also can getyou pull up host a job these
days and you're going to get alot of applications.
What's your balance between thetwo?
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, look, I mean, in today'smarket, there's no shortage of
candidates and um and resumesthat you're gonna see.
So I I I'm fortunate enoughwhere I've been working with my
people partner um for for solong.
She's extremely skilled infiltering through the candidates
(29:43):
and actually putting in front ofme um candidates that she thinks
are going to be close enough tothe bullseye.
And and we've actually, I thinkthe best thing that a people
manager can do is that, right,in terms of a recruiting
partner.
Not wasting people's time withcandidates that just aren't
going to hit.
So it's really been a lot ofinbound lead flow, but I will
(30:06):
say that it's it's extremelyimportant to always be
developing your networkproactively, even when you're
even when you don't have a jobopening.
And that's actually one thingwhere there's been a really um
healthy crossover between mywatch posts that I put on
LinkedIn and my SAS salesposition.
I get so many inbound DMs fromreally successful salespeople
(30:32):
that are like, hey, Eric, I'mthinking about buying my next
watch.
I saw that you might knowsomething about watches.
Like, would you mind connectingand we can talk about watches
and we can talk about sales?
And the guys that are planningon buying luxury watches with
their sales commissions, they'reactually doing something right.
They're actually closingbusiness and hitting their
quotas, and they want torecognize and celebrate that.
(30:54):
So, like, I actually have foundthis really unique and
interesting way to develop apipeline of really successful
software sales guys just byposting about watches.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Yeah, that's super interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I've tried to challenge myselfuh recently to do outbound on uh
candidate profiles, even ifwe're not immediately hiring.
Uh, and I think there's a bitmore importance on this in a
vertical SaaS context versus ahorizontal one, because you
know, you have a huger pool inwhich you could be selling your
(31:24):
solutions into many industries.
Um, and so there's a you know abigger universe of potential of
potential enterprise salesprofessionals.
And uh, you know, it is truethat you in vertical SaaS, you
don't necessarily need to be uhan expert in that vertical to
succeed in role, but itcertainly helps.
And you need a balance betweengetting folks from inside
(31:47):
industry and developing theskill set from folks along the
way.
Um but when you are in a youknow a specific vertical where
there's a lot more taxonomy,there's a lot more sort of
technical requirements on deals,and the learning curve is just
simply longer from someoneoutside of that zone, um, it's a
bit easier to go fishing.
And what I mean by that is it'sa bit easier to go identify the
(32:09):
folks that are relevant,certainly directly relevant from
a direct competitor standpoint,but also like tangential type of
companies.
And so in this context, I viewit as almost malpractice to not
be nurturing some of those anddeveloping some of those
relationships.
And so, you know, whether it'seven at an event or a
(32:31):
conference, but also just likeLinkedIn being such a great
source, it's like reaching outto a handful of individuals
every week as a discipline.
And not all of them are gonna,you know, connect with you.
But I find that if you know I'ma chief revenue officer or I'm a
you know senior sales leaderversus a talent acquisition
person, the response rate willbe higher.
And then entering thatconversation with like, let me
(32:53):
deliver some value to thatperson.
And even if now is not the time,like I still remember
conversations I've had in 2024with individuals that like it
might be 2026 when the starsalign, but I've fostered and at
least initiated therelationship.
Um, I remember whether or not inthe way they engaged, whether I
wanted to continue.
Now I can incorporate some ofyour questions into that in the
(33:14):
future.
So I'm just trying to, you know,I've been thinking more about
that balancing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah.
It's it's extremely important.
And I think it as you noted,especially in like kind of a
vertical environment where thatspecialist uh expertise is going
to be somewhat scarce.
Um and uh and I think it makes alot of sense to be outbounding
uh as a result.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah.
I do the outbound, super simple.
Like, don't overthink it.
It's more about the execution.
You don't need the perfectmessage.
Um, I put together like a bit oflike a candidate pitch deck,
which is like, I want this to bevaluable for them.
I want to educate them on likewhat we have going on, what's
our org chart look like?
What are the big priorities forthe year and the big goals?
What are the challenges theywould face in a role, and then
turn that into like what aretheir experiences with those
(33:59):
same things so I can learn aboutthem while educating on what
it's about here?
Uh, even talk a little bit aboutlike personal values and things
like that.
And then I just say, hey, theseare the types of things we're
looking for.
Like, do you want to pursue thistype of conversation or you just
want to stay in touch?
It's like a very safe type ofthing.
But I I do view just like yousaid, as like, I want to be
memorable.
I want to make sure that theydidn't feel like I'm just
(34:21):
transactional.
I'm just like, hey, are youlooking for a job now?
Like, oh no, all right, bye.
Like, no, like this is we'replaying the long game here.
Um, and I don't find people doenough of that.
I actually try to uh advocate inmany other areas that like
they're out there, they're easyto find.
Like, spend it's worth the timeto go in and do that small
amount of work, and you willstand out because not many are
(34:44):
doing it.
SPEAKER_02 (34:45):
Yeah, it it's it's entirely true, and it's a
principle for life, in fact,right?
So I actually to weave in thewatches again, I I wrote a post
this week about how to develophow to get like how do the guys
that walk into the roleexpertise boutique um how are
the guys that spend nothing andwalk away with a blue dial
(35:06):
skydor or a panda daytona, andthen the guy that spends$100,000
walks in and doesn't getanything good.
It really comes down to are areyou like a good human being and
are you trying to develop arelationship with your AD, your
Rolex A D?
And what can you offer from anetworking standpoint for that
(35:26):
individual that's gonna benefitthem just as much as they're
trying to benefit you?
What can you educate them on,right?
The guy that goes in is like,hey, can you put me on a list
and can uh and give me a callnext time you get one of these
is never gonna get a call and isyou know probably not gonna go
on the list.
But I actually I have a friendwho's uh who I sourced a watch
(35:49):
from.
Uh, he told me that um he uh heowns a restaurant chain in uh
the northern area just north ofAustin.
And every every Friday um hegives complimentary catering to
the Rolex boutique that he getshis watches from.
(36:09):
He's like, hey guys, I got youfor lunch every Friday, the
second Friday of every month.
They lunch comes in.
Does that guy get a call everytime a Daytona comes in?
SPEAKER_01 (36:18):
I mean, that's fantastic.
Of course.
What's so interesting is like itused to be sales were so
relationship driven.
Remember, like the you know,you're in the challenger sale
was all about like therelationship person is the type
of person that you think is likegoing to be the successful
seller.
No, it turns out that like thebuddy and the friend is not
necessarily like the rightprofile.
And so no, you need to be like achallenger and you need to like
be disruptive and you need to belike an industry expert and you
(36:41):
need you know process driven.
And it's like, well, no, yes,all of that is true, but like
relationships still do matter,they have not gone away.
SPEAKER_02 (36:48):
Especially in this uh age of AI, right?
I mean, like what do we ashumans still possess?
We still possess like theability to have a relationship
and the ability to have empathyand emotion.
And I mean, what we we stillhave that.
We're always gonna have that,and that's never gonna go away.
SPEAKER_01 (37:05):
Yeah.
Um, Eric, to close out here,anything interesting, any
innovations that you've likebrought to market recently that
you're like, or something you'reexperimenting with now to try to
either add productivity or to dosomething new and different,
what do you see in?
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I I actually publishedsomething on LinkedIn about this
uh, I think a month or two ago.
But um, you know, just if youthink about in your
organization, any meeting thatis strictly information based,
um, how can you actually justchurn that into an AI summary,
right?
So uh, for example, uh when webring in new business deals,
(37:38):
there's an information exchangebetween the account executive
and the account management team.
It's just strictly informationexchange.
And and what we know is that theAEs don't like filling out the
forms that they have to, thatthey have, that the account
management team's looking for.
And the account management teamdoes not like looking up to look
or uh showing up to a first callunprepared and not knowing the
(38:00):
context behind the sale, right?
So what we've actually startedto do here at Lubio is we have
integrations with Gong uhthrough Salesforce, and then we
are uh bringing all of so we'rebringing all of the previous
call notes uh from Gong andusing Gong AI to import that
into a Word doc.
And then we're bouncing Geminiuh off of off of the uh
(38:23):
summaries against a templatethat is the most common
questions that the accountmanagement team wants to know
about that new customer.
And we've fully automated thatprocess with AI using Gong AI
and Gemini.
So to now we don't actually needto have these information
transfer meetings again betweenaccount executives and between
(38:44):
account managers.
It's now fully automated.
And it's I think a great use ofAI where it's like, hey, do we
really need this meeting on thecalendar where it's just an
information exchange and we canjust fill out a template and
give you what you want, and theneverybody's happy and we save
some time.
SPEAKER_01 (38:58):
We're talking about the handoff from a new deal from
the sales team to theimplementation team.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Common set of questions, theseare the things we need to know.
Now AI goes in, reviews everysort of interaction historically
around it, answers it.
There can still be someconnection if maybe you know the
small percentages that weren'tcovered need to be still
covered, but we can get toeither 100% or mostly down the
(39:21):
road without.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Anything else that you'reexcited about that haven't tried
yet?
SPEAKER_02 (39:28):
Uh I mean, I I've been hearing a lot of things
about tools like clay.
Um, you know, we we just boughta um uh an AI coaching tool that
I'm I'm really excited to to bejumping into so that we can
scale coaching uh using uh usingAI across the business.
So that those are all things I'mreally excited to start
(39:48):
experimenting with and learningmore about.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Well, the time flies, Eric, it's always great
to see you.
Thank you for spending some timewith us today.
Um and we will see you nexttime.
Awesome.
Thanks, Rick.
Appreciate it.
Reflecting on the conversationwe had with Eric Walters, I
think the first thing that stoodout for me was when we started
(40:11):
talking about the assessment ofcandidates.
Eric leaned into the idea ofattitude and mindset over
process.
And the point he made toemphasize this was that many
established organizations have aprocess that folks adhere to and
yet do not get uniform results.
They get high variability inresults.
(40:32):
And Eric attributed that tomindset and attitude.
And so he tests for that.
And it's a great reminder forus.
Eric talked about these 11questions uh that he focuses on
in an interview process forenterprise sales talent,
something that he's developedover many years.
And we went into some examplesof that uh that have some
(40:52):
thoughtfulness behind them as itrelates to getting the right
team built, which is obviouslycritical for the success of the
business.
Um, there was lots ofinteresting ones that I don't
normally hear about, clock speedbeing a great example of that.
He's thinking about not just thecontent of the answers coming
in, but the credibility of theindividual in keeping up with
(41:14):
the pace of an executive thatthey might have to be selling to
in the future.
So clock speed, a reallyinteresting and different one
that stood out for me.
I like how he pursuedauthenticity, uh talking about
deals that are lost.
That's something people aren'tgenerally comfortable doing.
Um, I love that deal uh where,you know, the sales leader in
Sweden had uh set up thatquestion, and it was really
(41:35):
about delivering on killerinstinct and getting folks that
are going to drive urgency anddrive deals to close and not be
in a position where things aregoing to happen to them, but
they are the ones that are goingto make things happen.
Uh, really enjoyed that.
And it really does amaze me inour conversation about the lack
of preparation that happens inthe interview world.
And of course, that relaysperfectly and correlates to uh
(41:59):
preparation and lack thereof inthe sales world.
And so when you find the folksthat come prepared, like that is
a you know significant, valuableattribute to come across.
Eric has many more.
Um, I'll be sharing the post uhyou know in my Substack
following the release of thisepisode.
(42:19):
Um, and lastly, I just enjoyedour conversation around how
relationships still matter.
You know, if I think about theevolution of SaaS sales and
technology sales, it used to behighly relationship-driven more
than 20 years ago, heavyreliance on the seller to be
educated.
Now there's so much informationout there, we need to be more
prescriptive and identifyproblems that are worth solving
(42:40):
and become a bit moreprocess-oriented.
And there's Challenger sale andmany other ways to be
consultative and value-basedsellers.
Like, I totally get it, butrelationships still matter.
Um, and so when we talked aboutthis dynamic of um, you know,
how to be more memorable.
And, you know, he gave theexample of like who gets the
(43:01):
best watches from the Rolexdealer.
It just reminded me that perhapswe've over-indexed on process
and that, you know, people beingtheir individual cells still has
high relevance.
And that's good because, youknow, I'd like to think I'm a
bigger personality type guy.
Uh, thank you to Eric forjoining.
Thank you all to listening.
Thanks to Ari Smolin forproducing, Sons of Summer for
the tunes.
It was a lot of fun.
(43:21):
We will see you next time onIllinois.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Pillar Talk where we build thefoundations of sales leadership
success and attempt to createclarity in terms of what good
looks like for current andaspiring leaders.
Just a quick review of thepillars.
We talk about talentidentification and attraction.
(00:36):
Both are difficult.
We talk about the operatingrhythm with which the leader
runs the team, which is measuredin my mind by motivation,
engagement, and accountability.
We talk about business planning,which is planning for the future
rather than reacting to thethings that are happening to
you.
It's actually pretty difficultto do the former and easy to do
the latter.
Mastering the craft, which iscoaching the team and helping
(00:59):
them win.
Communication and ownership.
Today we are fortunate to haveEric Walters as our guest.
Eric is the VP of EnterpriseSales at Lupio.
He leads the strategy, he'sdoing hiring, he's doing tons of
coaching, he's executing at avery high level on large
enterprise deals across theentire company.
Prior to that, Eric was the VPof sales at Wise Systems.
(01:22):
He led go-to-market efforts andenterprise sales there.
And in addition to hisimpressive sales leadership
background, Eric is anentrepreneur.
And outside of just doing theSaaS leadership thing, he runs
and founded Timely Souls, acurated luxury watch and also
sneaker venture that he launchedin 2023.
(01:43):
Eric, thank you for joiningPillar Talk.
SPEAKER_02 (01:45):
Hey, thanks so much for the invite, Rick, and great
to see you again.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Eric, what did sales leadership and just the world
we're living in today teach youthat helped you build the
confidence to actually go launchyour own entrepreneurial
endeavor?
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Yeah.
So I, you know, my career insales started really, I think,
when I was a kid.
I always had like a passion foruh convincing my parents to let
me do something.
I was that kid that was not likegetting kicked out of school,
but getting in trouble atschool.
(02:21):
And so I had to work my waythrough different privileges
with my parents and convincethem that they should trust me
to do something when maybe myactions hadn't said otherwise at
school.
So that ability to influence wassomething that I had to really
learn quickly as a kid if Iwanted to actually do anything.
And um, and as I grew up, um, Istarted collecting cards and
(02:42):
like kind of alternativeinvestment stuff.
So sports memorabilia, baseballcards.
That eventually evolved into uhsneakers, which evolved into
watches as well.
I'm now into like kind of carsnow as well.
So big into alternative assetsprimarily because I always got
super bored by watching uhinvestments grow on a computer
(03:02):
uh spreadsheet or whatever,right?
Just like there's nothing thatappealed to me about investing
in a company and watching thestock grow.
I would prefer to actuallyexperience the assets that can
also appreciate and value.
And so um I think sneakers arehorrible investments.
I don't recommend anybody try toinvest in sneakers, but you can
(03:24):
actually invest in luxurywatches and do pretty well.
And you can wear them on yourwrists, they're great networking
tools, uh, and they're also ahedge against inflation, and
they do uh trend with the priceof gold.
So, you know, a lot of veryimportant current uh themes in
today's world.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Awesome.
Uh Eric, we had uh, you know, Ihad the good fortune of been
able to work with you in thepast.
I observed as a sales leader uhsome of the attributes that made
you effective is just sort ofone discipline always observed
you being consistent and youknow your work ethic and
consistency of just being on topof things and creating the right
(04:01):
environment.
Um and then recently I saw thatyou posted on LinkedIn about
hiring.
And so you are in a time rightnow where you're trying to bring
new people into theorganization.
We know how leveraged of a betthat is.
And you posted about here arethe 11 questions that I ask in
every interview.
What was the background on howthat came together?
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
So uh I've actually been in thefortunate position um at Lupio
this year where I actually havebeen actively hiring.
There's not a lot oforganizations out there that are
hiring as much as we are rightnow.
So it's a really fortunateposition.
And as as I've been involved inhiring so consistently this
year, it compelled me to kind ofput this post out on LinkedIn
(04:45):
and share some of uh what Ithink is working uh in the
process.
But where this all came from wasum really kind of back to my
days at Gartner.
So uh Gartner um researchadvisory company, it was my
first uh role in management, inleadership, and they had some
outstanding training there.
(05:07):
And I also had some outstandingmentors in that business as well
that really has influenced how Ihire, retain, coach, develop
talent since then.
And one of the mostinspirational leaders that I
worked with, um, a guy namedPeter Prasico, he was the uh
managing vice president for theNortheast.
(05:28):
And um, I remember uh Peterecruiting me to be a manager.
Um I initially declined becauseI was so excited about the
upcoming year as an individualcontributor and what I could
contribute there, the money Icould make there, uh, but he
eventually convinced me tobecome a manager.
Uh so I want to give Pete thatshout out.
Um, you know, look at me now.
(05:50):
Uh but one of the things thatPete always uh always talked to
me about, like first andforemost, it's always about
hiring great talent.
Always about hiring greattalent.
And and I actually worked foranother manager uh before I
became uh a leader at Gartner,his name was Scott Rose.
And um he I thought was the bestmanager I've ever seen at being
(06:16):
able to hire and assemble just arecord-breaking team.
And I and I remember talking tomy wife uh and just observing
like Scott's work habits.
And Scott wasn't afraid to takea vacation, he wasn't afraid to
take a little bit of time offbecause he trusted his team.
(06:36):
And I remember my wife alwayspointing that out to me.
She's like, Eric, you can take aweek off of work and not feel
about it, not feel bad about it,right?
Look at what Scott does.
And and so I didn't quiteconnect the dots on that because
I was such a young manager.
I felt like I had to be in thebusiness every day, like getting
my hands dirty, being the supermanager to prove that I belonged
(06:59):
in the management position tothe people that I hired.
Um, and as I've matured as amanager, um, that that has
changed and it's also influencedthe way that I hire so that I
actually create my own teams nowthat are modeled after that
incredible team that Scott Rosebuilt and uh inspired by just
(07:22):
the importance of hiring greattalent that I learned from Pete
Prisco uh back, you know, 10 or12 years ago, uh, maybe a little
bit more.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
So what were some of the things you observed that
Pete and Scott you know did?
What are some of the earlytakeaways?
Because it's hard to justcopy-paste.
Like you'd learn some things,and then of course you're gonna
have to stumble a bit along yourway and learn some of the
lessons through experience.
SPEAKER_02 (07:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the the most importantlesson that I learned from them
was that getting to the numbersis first and foremost about
getting the right people on yourteam.
And I remember Pete uh pullingme into an office.
He says, Eric, what's the mostimportant thing that you do as a
manager?
My response was, Pete, get to myquota, of course.
(08:06):
And he's like, Yeah, you'reright, but that's actually not
the most important thing thatyou do.
The most important thing you dois you hire great talent.
And he would always sit downwith me and be like, Eric, rank
me, rank your team to me.
Who's who's first?
Who's number one in your team?
Who's last on your team?
And whoever's last on your team,are you performance managing
them?
Are you looking for the nextnumber one guy?
(08:26):
Right?
So the conversations with himwere not always about this deal,
the forecast, the quarter.
It was, Eric, tell me about yourteam.
What do you like about them?
How are you coaching them today?
How do you stack rank them?
And how can I help you?
Right.
Um, that was really uh inspiringto me and kind of set me on the
(08:50):
trajectory of I was still a veryyoung manager, so I didn't quite
understand it.
But as I've matured, it's becomesomething that I constantly
think back to and tap into in myown hiring practices and as I
shape my team here at Lupio.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
All right, so how do we connect the idea that like as
a manager, it is about the team,the team that you assemble, the
team that you manage along theway.
What about those lessons aroundhow to actually build that team?
Is the go out and find thetalent proactively?
Is it assessment around it?
Obviously, it's probably a bitof both.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
Like yeah, it's certainly a bit of both.
I mean, you you've got to havethe experience uh to get the
interview, but but to actuallyget the job, um, you've got to
demonstrate uh the right traitsand behaviors that um I know
when you come into anenvironment uh and you are
(09:44):
coachable, uh, that I can enableyou to thrive and to be
successful.
So, you know, first andforemost, it really comes down
to mindset, growth mindset isthe most important thing.
And actually, this is a questionthat I ask every candidate that
I meet with.
I ask them, I say, what's moreimportant?
Mindset or process?
(10:07):
Um I I won't automaticallydisqualify a candidate if they
say process, um, but it's gonnabe an uphill battle for them to
win my favor if they thinkprocess is more important,
because I'm I so passionatelybelieve that success, not only
in sales, but generally in life,is about your mindset.
(10:27):
And that 90% of every outcomethat you're working towards,
it's it's your attitude towardsit.
And if you've got that mindsetthat uh allows you to be
coachable and to um reflect onlike your experiences and know
that you can shape those andthat you can control what you
can control.
You've got the right attitude,the confidence, the conviction,
(10:49):
the courage, the grit, theresilience, like all those
ingredients that go into awinning mindset.
Um, you can be successfulanywhere.
You just need to be in the rightenvironment.
You need to have the rightleader to like unleash that
talent to be successful.
So I'm always pleased whencandidates immediately answer
mindset, and I will tell themthat I think that's the right
(11:12):
answer.
And they kind of give me theirexplanation for why.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
And hopefully there's a story around that as
well, like an example of howthat mindset has been a part of
whether it be adversity ordifficult deals in the past, if
we're talking about a salescapacity or that type of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a there's always astory that goes with it.
It's typically some type of lossuh that they learned from.
Uh, because I think in sales,uh, we lose a lot more uh than
we win.
And our success over the longrun is our response to that
loss.
Um uh my manager Scott Roseactually told me something that
(11:51):
I still tell my team today.
Spend five minutes in victoryand spend five minutes in
defeat.
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
It's difficult to spend five minutes in defeat and
five minutes in victory, butthat's five minutes in victory
is easy, five days in defeat iseasy as well.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
I know, I know, but but you gotta but you gotta
learn from from thoseexperiences and and those
losses, and that that issomething that uh that I
definitely expect.
And and something else that'sreally important here is that
like if you think about it thisway, right?
So like um most organizationshave a sales process, and if
they don't, I'm sure they'reworking on building one.
And so like you have 10 repsthat are all following the same
(12:28):
sales process, then why are thelevels of performance different,
right?
So like they all know theprocess.
Why is one guy or galoverachieving while one guy or
gal is is underachieving?
I I'm extremely confident it'sjust their mindset.
And you know, are they adaptableto certain situations?
Are are they reflective in thelosses?
(12:48):
How quickly do they rebound fromthe losses?
How can they bring convictionand enthusiasm to every
conversation, no matter howthey're feeling that day?
Um, you know, how how muchenergy they bringing on Monday
mornings, like those are thedifference makers to me that
they're gonna set your topperformers apart from everybody
else.
And that's what I really try tolook for in the interview
(13:10):
process is you know, the folkswith those types of traits that
uh knowing that um you knowtough times don't last, but
tough people do.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
And let's dig into those traits a bit.
I mean, you just talked aboutwhat I would describe as
resilience, you talked aboutenergy, which is a bit of that
charisma, and you know, being alittle bit more, I always say be
more memorable, um, which is away of you know doing that.
What are some of the just if wego down into that mindset that
you're looking for, what aresome of the attributes that are
most important to you?
SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
Yeah, I I think that uh resilience and perseverance
is extremely important.
That's right at the top of mylist, right?
So like I will always ask aquestion centered around like,
what are your long-term goals?
And then tell me the last timethat you didn't achieve a goal.
What did you do?
(13:59):
And it it's a it's aninteresting kind of flip in the
interview process because wespend a few minutes talking
about long-term goals that thecandidate has set for
themselves, and we're talkingabout the positive, the
aspirational, the future.
And then I immediately reversethe psychology on.
I say, well, when's the lasttime you missed a goal?
(14:19):
What did you do?
How did you adapt?
What did you learn?
And in that is uh, I think oneof the most important questions
that I asked in the interviewprocess because it gives me a
sense of like, A, are theyactually real about setting
goals?
And B, um, how painful are theexperiences that they've had
(14:42):
when they've missed something?
And how quickly are they able toaccount for uh that miss?
And how accurately are they ableto describe uh what they learn
from that experience?
So like I'm measuring the gritand the resilience in that
question, but I'm also measuringthe clock speed of the candidate
(15:03):
as well.
Um, because I think clock speedis extremely important,
especially enterprise sellersworking with large multinational
organizations, engaging withexecutives, you better be quick,
you better be um you better beable to ask the right questions,
you better be able to challenge,you better be able to reflect in
(15:23):
the moment.
And so that clock speed in thesetypes of questions is also
something that's important forme to measure because every
engagement that I'm having withthem in the interview process,
I'm I'm imagining how are theyhow is this going to translate
into an actual deal.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
And by clock speed, you mean like the pace with
which they're reacting andanswering your question?
SPEAKER_02 (15:42):
Correct.
Yeah, correct.
So think about Jeopardy, right?
Like you got you got what, likethree seconds to answer the
question in Jeopardy, right?
So like the the clock speed,precisely.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Got it.
Because you're picturing them infront of an executive that's
impatient and is going to switchoff and you know, credibility
out the window if that clockspeed doesn't match theirs.
SPEAKER_02 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah.
We we have to be able to make uhstrong impressions quickly, and
we've got to be sharp.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
Um, do you view long-term goals as prerequisite
for performance in an enterprisesales capacity?
I find that many don't havestrong long-term goals.
What are you looking for there?
SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
Wow.
So um, yes, I think it's hugelyimportant.
And this actually comes down tosomething else that I haven't
brought up yet, but but it's agreat question.
Um sense of purpose, right?
So resilience in grit isn't areaction in and of itself, it
has to be founded and grown outof something.
(16:46):
And that something is yourpurpose, right?
So um my purpose is to make surethat my, you know, what when I
was a kid, my dad always saidthat he wanted to have X, Y, Z.
He couldn't give it to us.
So here I am, I've got thisamazing sales career and this
(17:08):
amazing opportunity.
I can actually find anopportunity, give that to my
family.
And that's what I tap into.
And my goal is to be able to getthere and achieve that.
And so like I want to understandthrough the interview process to
tap into the why behind themotivations.
Because like what when I like aquestion that I ask even before
(17:28):
the long-term goal one is like,hey, sales is really tough.
Like, what do you tap into tokeep going?
Right?
How do you do that?
And if I get like reallysurface-level question or
answers to that question, I'llI'll always double-click on it
because I really want tounderstand what it is.
And then I try to understand,okay, well, this is the purpose
they tap into.
Are they actually able to attachtheir long-term goals to that
(17:50):
purpose?
And and I have found um, youknow, with with the uh you know,
the recent hires that we've madehere at Lupio that everybody was
able to answer that question uhvery, very directly uh and with
the right amount of detail thatI would expect.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
So it isn't necessarily the goals in and of
themselves, it's the clarity foryou and understanding what's
motivating people, what is theirdriver, what is their purpose.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right.
Because back to the originalpoint, I hire on the behaviors
and I hire on how well thiscandidate's mindset is tuned,
and the the sense of purpose andhaving a recognition for what
that for what that sense ofpurpose is uh to get you through
(18:37):
the tough times is reallyimportant for me to be able to
identify that they haveidentified it.
Because when they have that,that's going to be something
that inevitably it's gonna bewe're gonna run into some
difficulty when we're workingtogether.
How is that person, or what isthat person gonna tap into to
(18:57):
keep going?
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
I mean, I imagine that the answer is often some
type of like to provide for myfamily, support my family type
of variant.
Is that typically what you see?
SPEAKER_02 (19:07):
It is, and it and and I don't, I, I, I don't
accept that.
I I I dig further because thatis not an acceptable answer.
And I say, and I in the way thatI reply to that, I say, look,
um, everybody says that.
Everybody obviously wants toprovide for their family, um,
everybody wants to go buy ahome, right?
(19:27):
But what what what is the what'sthe why behind that?
Like, why is that so important?
And when you start to dig in andyou can do it in a you know very
diplomatic, curiosity-driventype of way, candidates don't
get offended by it, but theyappreciate your interest in
learning more about theirsituation.
(19:49):
And I think that in theinterview process, they're
assessing you just as much asyou're assessing them.
And in your ability to bringthis level of cure, genuine
curiosity to the interview issomething that they'll reflect
on uh at the end.
And I think these 11 questionsthat I posted on LinkedIn, this
is actually a way for you as aninterviewer to distinguish
(20:13):
yourself from the othercompanies that are that this
candidate may be may be meetingwith.
Because I'll tell you, nearlyevery time I finish going
through these questions with acandidate interview, they nearly
always say, I've never hadanybody ask me those types of
questions in an interviewbefore.
And um and I love and enjoy theconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
Yeah, it I mean, a lot of what this is about is
getting past the surface level.
A lot of it is about getting tothe real sort of drivers and
motivators and um behaviors ofsomebody, and you're in a
position to understand whatthat's gonna be like for them in
a role, and you're trying tosort of get the real of like how
who they are so that you can putthem in that context and see is
(20:57):
that gonna be a win foreverybody?
Because it's not just aboutbeing a win for the company,
it's about being a win for theindividual.
Getting a bad hire is not onlybad for your company and your
job, it's bad for the person.
Like everybody loses in thattype of context.
So the stakes are super high.
Um, you you you when you'relooking for, you know, you
talked about the question aroundum they didn't achieve a goal.
(21:18):
Is the is the the motivationthere around authenticity and
just sort of self-awareness?
Like, like what are you lookingfor there?
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Yeah, it it is, it is for sure.
You know, I I I want to makesure that the candidate isn't
isn't the type of person thatcomes off and says, hey, I've
never missed a goal.
It's it's like the candidatethat and and I've talked to some
candidates that have actuallydone this where you ask them,
like, hey, tell me about a dealthat you lost and and what did
(21:46):
you learn from it?
And and they actually can't eventhink of one.
And I'm like, What do you meanyou can't think of a deal that
you lost?
Like, I I literally stillremember my most painful deals
from 15 years ago.
Those are my favorite stories.
Yeah, yeah, totally, right?
So, like, I you you you gottahave an answer to that question
uh so that you're able to um youknow show that like you're
(22:08):
reflective and and mostimportantly, you're somebody
that um learns from mistakes,right?
So I think all of thesesituations are ones where
there's been um some type ofmistake or some type of lesson
learned.
And and those are the mostpowerful moments in your career,
which come after the losses, andhow do you adapt yourself and
(22:28):
your business after the loss tobe able to uh adapt and win in
the future?
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
Yeah.
So it's it's about not only arewe going into that resilience
area, but it's about that growthmindset and continuing to learn
from it so we don't repeat thesame mistakes again and that
type of thing.
Um, so all right, we've we'vewe've hit a couple of those
questions, and of course, I'llshare um you know the link to
the post so that anybody can seethem.
But what are some of the onesthat stand out here that are
like the things you get the mostexcited to drill into the
(22:57):
conversations with candidates?
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So my my favorite question isone.
So I was actually in a I was inlike a manager mentoring program
at Gartner, and and I got pairedup with um a manager in Sweden,
and uh, and I had like uhbi-weekly just mentor calls with
(23:19):
him, and uh and I was doing alot of hiring at the time, so I
was like curious, I was like,all right, what do they do in
Sweden to interview sales guysand gals, right?
And I was like, you know, tellme what you do, what are some of
the questions that you ask?
And the the question that heshared with me remains like my
favorite interview question tothis day.
(23:40):
And so it it's a scenario whereit's going to make any candidate
squirm and uh and think deeplyabout how they want to answer
this question.
So here's the question, right?
So it's it's the final day ofyour fiscal year, and you have a
deal that's gonna get you to PClub, and it's gonna get your
(24:03):
company to plan.
Okay.
So it's the only deal left.
And you're on the phone withyour prospect, and they tell
you, hey, I can get this dealdone now, but the pressure that
you're placing on us, it'sactually gonna put the
relationship on the rocks fromthe start.
So my question to the candidateis like, do you press for the
(24:24):
deal or do you let it move intothe new fiscal year to save the
relationship?
And I pause.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Hold on.
Yeah, all right, good, good,because I'm I'm gonna attempt to
answer this.
Okay, great.
Yeah, playful about it.
But I'm gonna be candid here fora minute.
I'm getting that damn deal,Eric.
That's the right answer.
That's the right answer.
And Rick, you you would be Imean, it's an uncomfortable,
(24:51):
like, I feel almost bad in theway that you framed it, but it's
like, well, listen, it's puttingit a little bit on the rocks,
but like, we're gonna get thisdone.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Yeah, look, 100% that's the right answer.
And I'll tell you, the the bestsalespeople I've hired,
immediately like, I get thedeal.
But I I find the vast majorityof candidates are not that
decisive in the answer to thatquestion.
And and so they're like, well,the the the answer that I get
(25:21):
most of the time is it depends.
It really just depends, and youknow, the the relationship is
important, and you never want tostart off on the wrong foot.
And I tell them, and I let themkind of think it out and play it
out, and then I and then Iultimately will kind of share
like my perspective on it.
But yeah, it's like, look, youyou you are you're in sales,
(25:41):
you're paid to get the deal,you're paid to close business.
So get the deal, and you have atleast a year to fix the
relationship, probably two orthree years to fix the
relationship, right?
So that that's the correctanswer.
And um, I would say probably 30%of candidates that I talk to
(26:06):
will say, yes, I get the deal.
Uh, probably 60% are like itdepends, and they waffle and
they don't give me a straightanswer, and then the remaining
percent are um, no offense, um,service-based sellers that
should probably go into CS.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
Um, well, I'm thankful.
I'm feeling good no matter what.
Oh, yeah.
That like I've, you know, thatis a well-framed, and you make
it comfortable for the responderto that question to not say get
the deal.
And so you're looking forsomeone that's like, yeah, yeah,
I get that there's all thisstuff going on.
(26:46):
We got a deal to go get, like,and the the sort of tunnel
vision and the urgency that'srequired in order to like it's
sales, is especially enterprisesales, is pushing the boulder
uphill every single day.
And I always joked around thatenterprise sales, you only close
the deal when all the joy isgone.
Only when all the joy ispossibly gone, is it now set up
(27:09):
for the deal to win?
And so if you don't have themindset of like go get the deal,
nothing in here was ethicallychallenging.
It's just like, hey, it's justgonna be tough.
Like, yeah, um, that is a great,great question.
So um, which leads to anotherone, which is like, how much do
you know about me?
Which is about preparation anddoing your research.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
And now anybody that's gonna interview with in
the future, they you've giventhe answers to the test here,
well, what's funny is um I postso I posted this uh uh post on
LinkedIn, and right as I was inthe midst of interviewing a lot
of candidates, and there were Ithink two that actually read the
(27:54):
post and kind of knew where Iwas gonna be going with my
questions, but nobody else has,right?
So it's actually it actually isa little bit surprising because
one of the first questions thatI ask everybody is like, how
much do you know about me?
Right?
And and I asked that becauselike how could you show up to an
(28:15):
interview without knowing yourinterviewer and at least
spending a little bit of time toget to know them beyond the you
know rapport building stuff?
Because you know what, if that'stheir approach to an interview
with me, what are they gonna dowhen they're preparing for that
C-level meeting?
It's gonna be the same approach.
And it's like, dude, you're it'sprobably not gonna work out here
(28:36):
if you're not actually evendoing your research on me.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, all right, we're not gonnahit every single one of them.
I think that was a fantasticsort of overview of some key
ones and what you're thinkingabout.
I'm gonna sort of incorporatesome of these into my uh
interviewing.
I wanted to ask you a little bitjust about hiring.
How much time are you spendinggoing outbound and attempting to
get candidates that fit aprofile that you're interested
(29:02):
in versus you know, receivingthe inbound flow of candidates?
And how do you find balancebetween your pursuit of because
you can, you know, like you cango and find people that have
maybe it's industry experience,maybe it's like sales
background, but you also can getyou pull up host a job these
days and you're going to get alot of applications.
What's your balance between thetwo?
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, look, I mean, in today'smarket, there's no shortage of
candidates and um and resumesthat you're gonna see.
So I I I'm fortunate enoughwhere I've been working with my
people partner um for for solong.
She's extremely skilled infiltering through the candidates
(29:43):
and actually putting in front ofme um candidates that she thinks
are going to be close enough tothe bullseye.
And and we've actually, I thinkthe best thing that a people
manager can do is that, right,in terms of a recruiting
partner.
Not wasting people's time withcandidates that just aren't
going to hit.
So it's really been a lot ofinbound lead flow, but I will
(30:06):
say that it's it's extremelyimportant to always be
developing your networkproactively, even when you're
even when you don't have a jobopening.
And that's actually one thingwhere there's been a really um
healthy crossover between mywatch posts that I put on
LinkedIn and my SAS salesposition.
I get so many inbound DMs fromreally successful salespeople
(30:32):
that are like, hey, Eric, I'mthinking about buying my next
watch.
I saw that you might knowsomething about watches.
Like, would you mind connectingand we can talk about watches
and we can talk about sales?
And the guys that are planningon buying luxury watches with
their sales commissions, they'reactually doing something right.
They're actually closingbusiness and hitting their
quotas, and they want torecognize and celebrate that.
(30:54):
So, like, I actually have foundthis really unique and
interesting way to develop apipeline of really successful
software sales guys just byposting about watches.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Yeah, that's super interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I've tried to challenge myselfuh recently to do outbound on uh
candidate profiles, even ifwe're not immediately hiring.
Uh, and I think there's a bitmore importance on this in a
vertical SaaS context versus ahorizontal one, because you
know, you have a huger pool inwhich you could be selling your
(31:24):
solutions into many industries.
Um, and so there's a you know abigger universe of potential of
potential enterprise salesprofessionals.
And uh, you know, it is truethat you in vertical SaaS, you
don't necessarily need to be uhan expert in that vertical to
succeed in role, but itcertainly helps.
And you need a balance betweengetting folks from inside
(31:47):
industry and developing theskill set from folks along the
way.
Um but when you are in a youknow a specific vertical where
there's a lot more taxonomy,there's a lot more sort of
technical requirements on deals,and the learning curve is just
simply longer from someoneoutside of that zone, um, it's a
bit easier to go fishing.
And what I mean by that is it'sa bit easier to go identify the
(32:09):
folks that are relevant,certainly directly relevant from
a direct competitor standpoint,but also like tangential type of
companies.
And so in this context, I viewit as almost malpractice to not
be nurturing some of those anddeveloping some of those
relationships.
And so, you know, whether it'seven at an event or a
(32:31):
conference, but also just likeLinkedIn being such a great
source, it's like reaching outto a handful of individuals
every week as a discipline.
And not all of them are gonna,you know, connect with you.
But I find that if you know I'ma chief revenue officer or I'm a
you know senior sales leaderversus a talent acquisition
person, the response rate willbe higher.
And then entering thatconversation with like, let me
(32:53):
deliver some value to thatperson.
And even if now is not the time,like I still remember
conversations I've had in 2024with individuals that like it
might be 2026 when the starsalign, but I've fostered and at
least initiated therelationship.
Um, I remember whether or not inthe way they engaged, whether I
wanted to continue.
Now I can incorporate some ofyour questions into that in the
(33:14):
future.
So I'm just trying to, you know,I've been thinking more about
that balancing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah.
It's it's extremely important.
And I think it as you noted,especially in like kind of a
vertical environment where thatspecialist uh expertise is going
to be somewhat scarce.
Um and uh and I think it makes alot of sense to be outbounding
uh as a result.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah.
I do the outbound, super simple.
Like, don't overthink it.
It's more about the execution.
You don't need the perfectmessage.
Um, I put together like a bit oflike a candidate pitch deck,
which is like, I want this to bevaluable for them.
I want to educate them on likewhat we have going on, what's
our org chart look like?
What are the big priorities forthe year and the big goals?
What are the challenges theywould face in a role, and then
turn that into like what aretheir experiences with those
(33:59):
same things so I can learn aboutthem while educating on what
it's about here?
Uh, even talk a little bit aboutlike personal values and things
like that.
And then I just say, hey, theseare the types of things we're
looking for.
Like, do you want to pursue thistype of conversation or you just
want to stay in touch?
It's like a very safe type ofthing.
But I I do view just like yousaid, as like, I want to be
memorable.
I want to make sure that theydidn't feel like I'm just
(34:21):
transactional.
I'm just like, hey, are youlooking for a job now?
Like, oh no, all right, bye.
Like, no, like this is we'replaying the long game here.
Um, and I don't find people doenough of that.
I actually try to uh advocate inmany other areas that like
they're out there, they're easyto find.
Like, spend it's worth the timeto go in and do that small
amount of work, and you willstand out because not many are
(34:44):
doing it.
SPEAKER_02 (34:45):
Yeah, it it's it's entirely true, and it's a
principle for life, in fact,right?
So I actually to weave in thewatches again, I I wrote a post
this week about how to develophow to get like how do the guys
that walk into the roleexpertise boutique um how are
the guys that spend nothing andwalk away with a blue dial
(35:06):
skydor or a panda daytona, andthen the guy that spends$100,000
walks in and doesn't getanything good.
It really comes down to are areyou like a good human being and
are you trying to develop arelationship with your AD, your
Rolex A D?
And what can you offer from anetworking standpoint for that
(35:26):
individual that's gonna benefitthem just as much as they're
trying to benefit you?
What can you educate them on,right?
The guy that goes in is like,hey, can you put me on a list
and can uh and give me a callnext time you get one of these
is never gonna get a call and isyou know probably not gonna go
on the list.
But I actually I have a friendwho's uh who I sourced a watch
(35:49):
from.
Uh, he told me that um he uh heowns a restaurant chain in uh
the northern area just north ofAustin.
And every every Friday um hegives complimentary catering to
the Rolex boutique that he getshis watches from.
(36:09):
He's like, hey guys, I got youfor lunch every Friday, the
second Friday of every month.
They lunch comes in.
Does that guy get a call everytime a Daytona comes in?
SPEAKER_01 (36:18):
I mean, that's fantastic.
Of course.
What's so interesting is like itused to be sales were so
relationship driven.
Remember, like the you know,you're in the challenger sale
was all about like therelationship person is the type
of person that you think is likegoing to be the successful
seller.
No, it turns out that like thebuddy and the friend is not
necessarily like the rightprofile.
And so no, you need to be like achallenger and you need to like
be disruptive and you need to belike an industry expert and you
(36:41):
need you know process driven.
And it's like, well, no, yes,all of that is true, but like
relationships still do matter,they have not gone away.
SPEAKER_02 (36:48):
Especially in this uh age of AI, right?
I mean, like what do we ashumans still possess?
We still possess like theability to have a relationship
and the ability to have empathyand emotion.
And I mean, what we we stillhave that.
We're always gonna have that,and that's never gonna go away.
SPEAKER_01 (37:05):
Yeah.
Um, Eric, to close out here,anything interesting, any
innovations that you've likebrought to market recently that
you're like, or something you'reexperimenting with now to try to
either add productivity or to dosomething new and different,
what do you see in?
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I I actually publishedsomething on LinkedIn about this
uh, I think a month or two ago.
But um, you know, just if youthink about in your
organization, any meeting thatis strictly information based,
um, how can you actually justchurn that into an AI summary,
right?
So uh, for example, uh when webring in new business deals,
(37:38):
there's an information exchangebetween the account executive
and the account management team.
It's just strictly informationexchange.
And and what we know is that theAEs don't like filling out the
forms that they have to, thatthey have, that the account
management team's looking for.
And the account management teamdoes not like looking up to look
or uh showing up to a first callunprepared and not knowing the
(38:00):
context behind the sale, right?
So what we've actually startedto do here at Lubio is we have
integrations with Gong uhthrough Salesforce, and then we
are uh bringing all of so we'rebringing all of the previous
call notes uh from Gong andusing Gong AI to import that
into a Word doc.
And then we're bouncing Geminiuh off of off of the uh
(38:23):
summaries against a templatethat is the most common
questions that the accountmanagement team wants to know
about that new customer.
And we've fully automated thatprocess with AI using Gong AI
and Gemini.
So to now we don't actually needto have these information
transfer meetings again betweenaccount executives and between
(38:44):
account managers.
It's now fully automated.
And it's I think a great use ofAI where it's like, hey, do we
really need this meeting on thecalendar where it's just an
information exchange and we canjust fill out a template and
give you what you want, and theneverybody's happy and we save
some time.
SPEAKER_01 (38:58):
We're talking about the handoff from a new deal from
the sales team to theimplementation team.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Common set of questions, theseare the things we need to know.
Now AI goes in, reviews everysort of interaction historically
around it, answers it.
There can still be someconnection if maybe you know the
small percentages that weren'tcovered need to be still
covered, but we can get toeither 100% or mostly down the
(39:21):
road without.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Anything else that you'reexcited about that haven't tried
yet?
SPEAKER_02 (39:28):
Uh I mean, I I've been hearing a lot of things
about tools like clay.
Um, you know, we we just boughta um uh an AI coaching tool that
I'm I'm really excited to to bejumping into so that we can
scale coaching uh using uh usingAI across the business.
So that those are all things I'mreally excited to start
(39:48):
experimenting with and learningmore about.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Well, the time flies, Eric, it's always great
to see you.
Thank you for spending some timewith us today.
Um and we will see you nexttime.
Awesome.
Thanks, Rick.
Appreciate it.
Reflecting on the conversationwe had with Eric Walters, I
think the first thing that stoodout for me was when we started
(40:11):
talking about the assessment ofcandidates.
Eric leaned into the idea ofattitude and mindset over
process.
And the point he made toemphasize this was that many
established organizations have aprocess that folks adhere to and
yet do not get uniform results.
They get high variability inresults.
(40:32):
And Eric attributed that tomindset and attitude.
And so he tests for that.
And it's a great reminder forus.
Eric talked about these 11questions uh that he focuses on
in an interview process forenterprise sales talent,
something that he's developedover many years.
And we went into some examplesof that uh that have some
(40:52):
thoughtfulness behind them as itrelates to getting the right
team built, which is obviouslycritical for the success of the
business.
Um, there was lots ofinteresting ones that I don't
normally hear about, clock speedbeing a great example of that.
He's thinking about not just thecontent of the answers coming
in, but the credibility of theindividual in keeping up with
(41:14):
the pace of an executive thatthey might have to be selling to
in the future.
So clock speed, a reallyinteresting and different one
that stood out for me.
I like how he pursuedauthenticity, uh talking about
deals that are lost.
That's something people aren'tgenerally comfortable doing.
Um, I love that deal uh where,you know, the sales leader in
Sweden had uh set up thatquestion, and it was really
(41:35):
about delivering on killerinstinct and getting folks that
are going to drive urgency anddrive deals to close and not be
in a position where things aregoing to happen to them, but
they are the ones that are goingto make things happen.
Uh, really enjoyed that.
And it really does amaze me inour conversation about the lack
of preparation that happens inthe interview world.
And of course, that relaysperfectly and correlates to uh
(41:59):
preparation and lack thereof inthe sales world.
And so when you find the folksthat come prepared, like that is
a you know significant, valuableattribute to come across.
Eric has many more.
Um, I'll be sharing the post uhyou know in my Substack
following the release of thisepisode.
(42:19):
Um, and lastly, I just enjoyedour conversation around how
relationships still matter.
You know, if I think about theevolution of SaaS sales and
technology sales, it used to behighly relationship-driven more
than 20 years ago, heavyreliance on the seller to be
educated.
Now there's so much informationout there, we need to be more
prescriptive and identifyproblems that are worth solving
(42:40):
and become a bit moreprocess-oriented.
And there's Challenger sale andmany other ways to be
consultative and value-basedsellers.
Like, I totally get it, butrelationships still matter.
Um, and so when we talked aboutthis dynamic of um, you know,
how to be more memorable.
And, you know, he gave theexample of like who gets the
(43:01):
best watches from the Rolexdealer.
It just reminded me that perhapswe've over-indexed on process
and that, you know, people beingtheir individual cells still has
high relevance.
And that's good because, youknow, I'd like to think I'm a
bigger personality type guy.
Uh, thank you to Eric forjoining.
Thank you all to listening.
Thanks to Ari Smolin forproducing, Sons of Summer for
the tunes.
It was a lot of fun.
(43:21):
We will see you next time onIllinois.
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