March 13, 2025 • 57 mins
Dr. Jessica Tullar Caroom returns to the podcast to discuss the evolution of her community food systems work and the importance of building meaningful connections through growing and sharing food.
• Growing Together Texas supports gardeners, growers, and cooks as three interconnected parts of a healthy food ecosystem
• Creating an online farmers market (LBK Grown) that helps local producers collaborate rather than compete
• Offering subscription produce boxes with seasonal vegetables and recipe guides that consistently sell out
• Starting small is key to garden success whether at home or in community settings
• Approaching plant growing by difficulty level - begin with herbs (easiest), then leafy greens, roots, and finally tomatoes/peppers
• Community gatherings like "Garden Guardians" provide vital support and knowledge sharing among garden leaders
• Finding meaning in the process of gardening and community building, not just in the harvest
• Building resilient local food systems by diversifying beyond the conventional market
Join Jessica's Garden Guardians events and learn more about subscribing to local produce boxes at growingtogetherTX.com or follow @GrowingTogetherTX on Facebook and Instagram.
As always, thanks so much for listening! Subscribe, rate, and review Planthropology on your favorite podcast app. It helps the show keep growing and reaching more people! As a bonus, if you review Planthropology on Apple Podcasts or Podchaser and send me a screenshot of it, I'll send you an awesome sticker pack!
Planthropology is written, hosted, and produced by Vikram Baliga. Our theme song is "If You Want to Love Me, Babe, by the talented and award-winning composer, Nick Scout. Midroll tunes are by Rooey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up?
Plant people it's time oncemore for the Plantthropology
Podcast, the show where we diveinto the lives and careers of
some very cool plant people tofigure out why they do what they
do and what keeps them comingback for more.
I'm Vikram Baliga, your hostand your humble guide in this
journey through the sciences and, as always, my friends.
I'm so excited to be with youtoday, and one of the reasons
I'm so excited is I get to talkto an old friend of the show, dr
(00:22):
Jessica Tuller-Caroom, and ifyou're a longtime listener, if
you're one of the OGs, as itwere, you may remember that way
back in March of 2020, oh, yes,that March of that 2020, you
know the one.
(00:42):
You remember it, maybe fondly,probably not.
Jessica came on to talk abouther community garden efforts, to
talk about what do we do, whatdo we do in the midst of a
global shutdown and foodshortages and all of those
things and some themes thatwe're kind of dealing with today
in some ways, and so Jessicaand I, community building and
(01:08):
the food production everythingelse that goes into a healthy
food economy is as important ormore important now than it has
ever been, as it has ever been,and this is just such a fun
conversation.
We get shockingly philosophicaland introspective through the
whole thing and maybe notshockingly.
(01:29):
I think that actually lendsitself well to the space of
those things today through foodefforts, through community
gardens, through school gardens,through working with local
producers, and has just such acool story.
(01:50):
So, without belaboring itanymore, grab a carrot or your
favorite piece of garden produce, send a text to your community
garden friends and yourneighbors and get ready for
episode 114 of thePlantthropology Podcast with Dr
Jessica Tuller-Caroom.
Jessica, welcome back Thanks.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Thanks, Vikram, for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
It's been five years.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
That is a little shocking.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Does that upset you too?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I may have told someone about recording this and
said oh yeah, I talked to himfive years ago, in 2000.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's not.
It's not OK.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And she said that's 25 years.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And I said oh, I know that I know I'm in 2020.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I'm in 20.
Just kidding, sorry, that's howold I am.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Well for one.
From my perspective, the factthat people are still listening
to this podcast five years lateris a little bit bonkers for me.
Yeah.
Good job, thank you.
Thank you, I'm giving myself asticker, but the fact that it
feels like we blinked and wewent through a whole lot while
we blinked.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Because we recorded.
I think we recorded in March of2020.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, which was right after it was right as it was
shut down.
I remember, because I rememberthe themes around that were
about like, what do we do, howdo we do this?
And, like my thought, mythinking was very insular and
closed Finding the joy then, andnow it's.
We're not all at home at all,but there is some work to
finding the joy again, so that'sokay.
(03:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, there's some rhythms and themes in our life
that are circling back, circlingback, yeah, for sure.
In terms of food and like a lotof things, a lot of things.
Yes, and so that's one of thereasons that I wanted to have
you on today and we'll get intothis as we go.
But talking, I think thisseason is largely going to be
built around community.
How do we build community infood practice and just in
(04:08):
general, and that's somethingthat you do very well.
I want to talk about, like the,your new things that you've
started since then and whatyou've learned through that
process and how people that wantto do similar things can start
it.
But first, why don't you justquickly reintroduce yourself,
tell us about you and where youcome from, all that stuff?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Okay, so I am born and raised in Texas.
I've lived all over Texas andmy husband's work brought us to
West Texas.
If you'd asked me years ago, Iwould not, would have predicted
that we would be here.
And here we are and I havealways.
I didn't even realize throughline of growing something.
I have always.
I didn't even realize throughline of growing something.
It wasn't something I wasnecessarily.
(04:47):
I never I'm not trained inhorticulture.
My undergraduate was in biology.
My graduate work was in publichealth.
I have a PhD in epidemiologyand I was doing population
health and occupational health,interested in those kinds of
areas, and my husband had amedical, traumatic medical
situation that luckily resolvedand he had that in 2014.
(05:14):
And yeah, and after that I justcouldn't.
My work in public healthresearch, I don't know, it was
just much.
It wasn't as meaningful to me,which is kind of funny.
Actually, my dissertation wason meaningful work.
My title of my dissertation wasaround a program called Sacred
(05:35):
Vocation, anyway.
So I did all that, studyingabout meaningful work and
talking about meaningful workand getting meaningful new work,
and then I was doing my stuffwhich I guess didn't realize at
the time, I wasn't finding verymeaningful, and so it's kind of
funny, right, yeah, anyway, andso and I was like I don't know,
I want to do something different.
(05:55):
I'm going to go part time andI'm going to start a garden at
my kid's school and I'd beengrowing in my backyard but I
kind of wanted to share thatwith others and do something
together.
It's a whole other animal tothink about growing in community
, to think about teachingsomeone, to think about having
grace for each other, learningfrom each other.
That's like a.
I mean you have to be in theright headspace.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Sure, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
To do any of that Versus you in your backyard.
Make all my own decisions.
This is how I want to do it,whatever.
So I started to garden at mykid's school.
It's a private school.
I basically became the bestvolunteer ever and was there all
the time and I loved it.
I was happy.
Maybe it wasn't balanced, but Iwas definitely getting a lot of
(06:40):
meaning out of it and I learneda lot.
I learned a lot, a lot, a lot.
So that was really great.
I had a lot of support fromother parents and teachers and
staff and that was great.
And on that process I met youand was talking about starting
gardens and you said whateveryou do, start small, and I tried
to bring that back, but myversion of small is perhaps not
(07:00):
what's relative.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It's all relative right, not what's relative.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It's all relative right.
So I'll remind everyone that'slesson number one start small,
but at any rate, I got to apoint especially around 2020,
where I was wondering I've donethis great work at this one
school I'd been working on, I'dalready been making connections
with other school and communitygardeners.
How do other people do this?
I'm not from here.
Teach me what in the?
(07:25):
What am I doing?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
wrong.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
What do you grow here ?
Because I was trying to figurethings out with Instagram and
Googling things and watchingYouTube and whatever, and so I
realized around 2019, 2020, thatI needed to start a nonprofit
that supported school andcommunity gardens, because there
wasn't anything here for ourarea for this, for this kind of
(07:47):
work, and so that's kind of whatled me to here.
So it's a kind of windy roadfrom public health but I like to
say it's public health researchto public health practice yeah
because my meaning ultimatelyI'm not.
I'm learning about the flowersand native plants and whatever
else, but honestly, my ultimatelike motivation motivator from
(08:10):
all this was eating more plants.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
How to eat more plants and doing it in an edible
way edible landscaping,whatever that is and so, yeah,
that was a public healthpractice side.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That's an interesting thought too, because I think,
especially today in general, wehave to, I think, contextualize
the work we do differently insome ways right, whether we're
in the sciences or whether we'rein a strictly basic research
field or an applied researchfield.
Everything is currently in flux.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yes, for many reasons .
So many reasons, so manyreasons yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And being able to sort of like redefine value in
your work is important.
Yeah, and I think, as peoplestress out which I think a lot
of us are right there's a lot ofanxiety of what am I going to
do?
What if I lose my job?
Being able to recontextualizeis really important and that's a
learned skill, maybe.
Maybe that comes with maturity,maybe that comes with
(09:06):
experience, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Uncertainty is high right now.
I think I heard somethingrecently that like there's like
somebody has developed a measureof uncertainty and it's like
its highest level.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh, that's depressing .
I don't want to Sorry there wasa measurement, someone measured
it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I know us nerdy nerds , so so yeah, and I think,
having re, re remindingourselves why, why do I do what
I do, can I find another way todo that If this changes?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And, as a nonprofit person, we do that all the time.
We figure out another way.
Okay, that's not going to workanymore, let's try something
else.
What was?
Why are we doing this?
Oh, right, to get people to eatmore plants.
Okay, how do we do that again?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah, Keeping the main, I guess, staying
mission focused right, Keepingthe big picture.
One of my colleagues said themission doesn't change the
things that we are trying toaccomplish with our students,
with our communities.
It doesn't change.
We may have to approach themdifferently.
We may have to approach themdifferently.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
We may have to talk about them differently, but our
goals don't change Absolutely,absolutely, and we can still
have those goals.
There can be lots of changesand we can still have our same
goals.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, that doesn't stop.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So okay, in the last five years then, as I guess a
response to some of these thingsthat you were interested in
that, you found, I guess, apassion in or some meaning in
potentially what's come out ofthat, because you've started a
whole lot of new things, you doa lot of things.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Some would say too many, but not me.
No, I'm kidding.
The nonprofit Growing TogetherTexas has three focuses
gardeners, growers and cooks.
I see these to be interrelated.
I see them to be.
If you imagine a three-leggedstool, you need all three for
that thing.
So gardeners need cooks to beable to cook there.
(10:51):
If it's not themselves, someoneelse cook their vegetables.
They also need growers, I wouldargue, because I think that we
can learn from each other.
You can learn from growers.
If you go to Farmish Market,ask them questions, you can
learn what is it, what is thevariety you're planting that
looks so good, because my stufflooks like crap.
So I mean, like those are greatquestions to ask.
I've asked, I've learned about,like, how do you get these
(11:11):
stupid carrots to germinate?
Oh, you have a seed mat on top.
Oh, no wonder.
Okay, now I'm figuring out whatyou do that helps keep your
moisture consistent so that youcan then have that germination,
consistent germination forcarrots.
So, like those kinds of thingsyou learn by asking.
And who better to ask thansomeone that's doing it
hopefully for their livelihood?
I mean, they're doing it on amassive scale.
(11:32):
Not everything's going to work,but it's a great, that's a
great source.
So and then growers need cooks,because who is going to eat
their food unless we know how tocook it?
It does us no good to grow afield of turnips if nobody knows
how they like turnips Right.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I don't know how I like turnips.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I have ideas so.
So, yeah, I see them as allinterrelated and feeding into a
larger piece about food access,and a lot of my work is honestly
about food access and I, whileI'm interested in, like I said,
pretty gardens and pretty thingsand all the things, ultimately
(12:09):
it's about.
It's about food and hopefullynutritious food.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So yeah, so that led you to.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
so did that lead you first, I guess, to growing
together, texas, or so I yeah, Iwanted a nonprofit that
supported that supported schooland community gardens, so that
was the okay.
I wanted a nonprofit thatsupported school and community
gardens, so that was the okay.
I'm going to do GrowingTogether, texas.
I also wanted to supportgrowers, so that's where I came
up with this like whatever mylike trilogy gardeners, growers
and cooks.
And so to do that, some of theprograms that we've done things
(12:39):
have evolved over time, so I mayhave started out one time like
like for cooks, for a reallyfocused project for cooks.
I used to do during actually2021, very early on.
I did these meal bags and itwas an idea, kind of like Green
Chef is a thing I used a whileago, but people have like meal
prep companies that bring it toyour door.
(13:00):
And I figured if I could usethat and that's helpful, surely
everyone could use this.
And so we sold, like I don'tknow, 12, 15 bags, very small
amount, not like a.
This isn't a large thing, butit was like, okay, I can find
enough produce for this many,and then I would buy also like a
box of pasta or whatever elseto round out the recipe.
(13:21):
And $5 of your bag that youbought went towards a bag for
someone in need.
And so then I did a version fora bag of someone in need
because it wouldn't be the exactsame time.
I had to kind of like do thosefunds and then do the next one,
and we paired that with comingout to a community garden and
also hopefully like harvesting,some kind of trying to connect
further in that way.
(13:42):
Those I no longer do.
Those meal bags, I know peopleloved them.
My customers are like, well, wemissed the meal bags.
Yeah, it's a lot of work and megoing around to multiple
grocery stores buying like eightboxes of pasta here and four
boxes of pasta there, it's kindof nonsense.
And yes, I could order themonline or whatever else.
That would require planning.
I was not that planful.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
No, it's a lot of work.
Anything like that is a lot ofwork.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, and so what I started to do instead?
The last two years it's evolvedinto a subscription box and so
we offer that.
So my support of growers hasevolved and I got a grant to
start an online farmer's marketand that online farmer's market
is called LBK Grown, so you cantype in lbkgrowncom, and at this
(14:25):
one moment we are not open, buthopefully, maybe by the time
this releases we will be liveagain.
There's not enough produce inthe winter, winter months, it's
really hard to have enoughproduce to be able to open up.
So, and there's also I feellike I joke, it's like that
ground equipment where it's in acircle.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
They probably take them out because they're super
dangerous.
No, not a merry-go-round.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The kind that you like if you're on it and
someone's like running.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Oh, you like, hold on for dear life.
Yes, for dear life.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, and you're like jumping in and people probably
I'm sure there's many injuriesoff this thing there's got to
bring to us.
So I'm trying not to do that.
I'm trying to have enough thatorders would be big enough that
(15:17):
it would make sense for peopleto collaborate and come together
and bring their order together.
So, at any rate, one of thethings we added on to this
online farmer's market was asubscription program, just like
a magazine subscription, and soyou would order for 10 weeks at
a time, eight weeks at a time,and you would get a box of
vegetables we have priced boxpriced at $25, and then a box
(15:38):
priced at 30 that has nochemical produce.
That's what we're calling it.
None of our farmers areorganically certified.
That's like a wholeconversation, so I won't get
into all the details, but that'sa whole thing.
And so our farmers have agreedto a terminology they call
chemical-free, which involves noonly organic certified
chemicals.
(15:58):
According to the USDA right.
If you have to use but little aspossible.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Right sure.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And so those are the inputs.
Okay, and so that was.
A request from our customerswas to create a chemical-free
option, and so we've done that.
I have to charge a little bitmore because those things often
cost more number one and I needto be able to have enough room
in the box to still kind of makeit worth people's while but, we
(16:28):
have sold out the box everytime I never I.
I have more people.
I think I could sell 100 boxesand I don't have 100 shares of
radishes every week kind ofthing, so I can't do that.
I've had lots of compliments onwhat we put in the box.
We always have a range ofthings.
I'm not going to put five headsof lettuce in it and that takes
(16:49):
some nuance there.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
That takes some decision making and sometimes
some creative thinking around.
What do you have?
What could we do to round thisout?
And then I have two recipes inthe box.
I'm no longer doing any extrasof pasta or tortillas or
whatever, it's just the produce,but I'll give you an idea.
So if I put turnips in the box,I have a recipe for turnips.
(17:13):
If I put a spaghetti squash, Ihad a recipe card that had a QR
code you could scan.
That would show you a video notmy video I've got time to make
that but a video of someone'svideo of how to cut a spaghetti
squash.
Also, people have made thesethings.
I'm just making it that mucheasier so you can just boop all
right, cool, that's how you cutit Done and our customers have
(17:36):
loved it and they've really beenvery appreciative.
I almost feel guilty because,like I said, I have more people
interested than I have produce,and so I literally have friends
who are like every time you sendme a note, it's already sold
out by the time I look.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I'm like I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I disappointed you once again.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
That's a good problem to have.
It's a good problem to have.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Well, and I think so on like the community business
side that should be showingpeople growers, producers.
Yes, that there's room in themarket.
Yes, I think people have thisweird idea around here that oh,
you can't grow food here.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Oh right For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
There's also the idea that people don't want fresh
produce here Absolutely, whichis a?
Weird concept to me.
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I disagree and I have these conversations with my
growers, with our community.
Anytime I have something aboutthat, I'm like, yeah, those
people aren't our people, I'mnot worried about it.
Yeah, we're going to keeptalking about what we do.
We're going to keep and guesswhat?
It's fine.
We're selling as much as, andnobody's upset about the price,
(18:39):
nobody's upset about the.
They're upset they can't get in.
So that's that's that speaks tothe market, that speaks to the
to the demand is absolutelythere and it shows.
I think that's what had beenone of the revelations for my
growers.
I luckily have a fantasticfarmer advisory board.
I have four farmers that I bringdecisions to.
(18:59):
I'm like okay, what are wegoing to charge for X, Y, Z?
What are we going to do aboutthis?
How many weeks do you want?
Whatever, it is okay.
Those conversations are withfarmers.
It's not Jessica Brando Gardnermaking these decisions, and
I've learned so much from them,and one of the things that
they've learned from each otheris the trust in each other that
(19:22):
there is more demand in themarket than they could ever meet
, and so they're actually bettertogether.
They've actually gotten to apoint where they're specializing
more.
So it's like you're really goodat growing.
I'm going to let you do that,I'm not going to do that.
It doesn't make any sense forme, and so that is the mark of
like.
(19:42):
We have ratcheted up a foodsystem where people are trusting
each other to do some of thosethings.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And I think you use that word exactly right.
What you're doing is building afood system.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And a lot of times.
I think you have hit on a verykey component of, I think, what
we'll discuss a lot of the restof the episode, and what one of
the big challenges is is findinghow these pieces fit together.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Right, because I think a lot of these local and
I've been doing this a longtime- here too.
We've worked together on thisfor I mean more than 10 years at
this point More than a decade,yeah.
And what we see over and overin these local food efforts is
(20:28):
kind of what you're talkingabout, that everyone's like oh,
I have to grow all the thingsbecause I need to take all the
things to the farmer's marketand I need to compete with Bobby
over here, and so we get ninepeople growing tomatoes and
lettuce and whatever right,whatever it is.
Instead of saying you know whatI really hate growing tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I hate picking okra yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, you're itching for days.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'd prefer not do okra ever again.
If I could not do okra, exactlyGreat.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
But somebody else is really good at it, yes, and so I
think finding these pieces andthe ways that all these like
gears turn together to make amachine that actually runs is
super important.
And that is I hear this frompeople all the time Like I've
worked in again the food spacefor quite a while, the food
production, local foodproduction space for a while is
that, oh, these systems don'twork, they can't work together,
(21:11):
they can't like there's.
I hear it, I've heard it at alllevels.
I was in a meeting in DC abouteight years ago for this like
southern region food productionthing and I had like eight
people say that it doesnproduction thing and I had like
eight people say that it doesn'twork.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Okay, but it has to work.
So here's the thing theexisting system doesn't work, so
either build a new system orfix it Like that's.
I mean, I talk about this whenI'm dealing with any new project
or any whatever.
There's certain people in ourlives.
I call them no bots.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You just once, and once you have that term, I don't
know it helps me.
I'm like oh hi, you're a no bot, that's definitely good.
Good.
So like you can, I mean it doesnot matter what I say to you,
because you're uninterested infinding a solution.
I either need to go around you,I need to go above you, but
(22:10):
we're like that, and then notwasting my time.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Who's got time?
Nobody's got time for that I'mdone.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So yeah, once I figure out oh you're a no bot,
oh it's like it's freeing.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, and I think, I think, being honest, that and
that's really an interestingthought too that we have to be
honest about the systems inwhich we work.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Some of them don't work.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Some of them don't work.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, but what's the alternative I'm going to have?
We have growers in our systemand we all know this.
Okay, the age of the averageage of farmer is super high.
There's not as much food beingproduced in the U?
S I'm not stating new knowledgeso how do you get there?
I would argue that if youalready have someone growing
(22:56):
something on a small scale, it'sa lot easier for me to
hopefully come alongside them.
There is demand out there.
They're doing all the thingshopefully help meet a little bit
more of that demand and helpthem grow bigger in a safe and
sustainable way.
Let's all take care of ouremployees.
Let's do this in a way thatprotects the soil.
(23:17):
I'm in no way sacrificing that.
There's reasons why we havethose friction points, but that
doesn't mean we can't envision anew way.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right, absolutely so the pieces of, I guess, your
overall.
I'm going to use the word brandyeah, we had a conversation
about this not long ago.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, the pieces of your overall brand.
I'm going to use the word brand.
We had a conversation aboutthis not long ago.
Oh my gosh, yeah the pieces ofyour overall brand.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So you have Growing Together Texas, which is, I
guess, the collaborative piecebetween the farmers, or is that
more school and communitygardens?
Yes or yes, both, yes, both.
All of the above yes.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So gardeners, growers and cooks, and then under
growers is where I have LBKGrown.
Yes and for now LBK Grown is acommunity business run by the
nonprofit.
It is a nonprofit itselfbecause if I were first of all,
I'm losing money.
If I were to make money, itwould be reinvested anyway.
So whatever.
But eventually I do envisionthat to be something I spin off
(24:15):
and it becomes a farmer owned afarmer co-op owned whatever
situation.
But right now it's notsomething a farmer could take on
because it's a loss.
Yeah, sure, and so like eitherit doesn't happen at all.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Or it happens and we invest in the system to
hopefully get us somewhere.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, building infrastructure for sure, Right,
I like that a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That's really interesting and I think that the
nonprofit space is not for thefaint of heart just in general,
yeah.
It's a challenge at the best oftimes and in the best of
circumstances.
Yes yes, but I think that we'veseen the need for those kinds of
efforts in our space, right Inour societies.
(24:57):
In general, yeah, butespecially in the food space,
because there's a lot that's notworking about with, again, our
traditional food system and thisis not a and I don't want
people to think that this isintended to be a knock against
conventional markets because weneed them.
They're integral to our way oflife.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Going back to.
We are not open right now forthe online farmer's market.
So, yeah, I'm buying my carrotsat Costco this week, like
that's what it is, because it'swhere they are.
So, yeah, so we need ourconventional growers.
Maybe it looks different, maybeI would like it to look
different, but I think I'm notsaying that I want to exit that
completely.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
No, it's just a different one a diversification
of the market.
I think what we've seen in 2020,for sure, yeah, for sure, yeah,
and now again, for again a lotof reasons is that it's as big
as the system is, it's notresilient and it's fragile,
right, and we've got foodrotting in fields and places.
We have things that are grownand can't be harvested.
We've got we're going into a LaNina year, so we're going to
(26:03):
have water shortages across thecountry, especially through the
South and the West, where all ofour produce is grown.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Not all.
Most of our produce is grownand so we have to think about
okay, we have this big system,but how do we also regionalize
it a little bit to addresilience to the ecosystem, the
food ecosystem, right?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I heard someone say we have built networks.
We've built for efficiency andthat served a purpose, but, like
you said, our network is notresilient and now we really need
as many connections as possible, more of a web, because that's
going to be strengthened whensomething hits it and so it's a
nice I don't know.
It helped me think about like Idon't have to be thinking about
(26:46):
the most efficient way.
If I build a connection,there's still something my
online farmer's market so it'sprimarily aimed at bigger orders
, so restaurants or even thosein food service, like we had
some schools ordering this yearthanks to some funding, so
that's great.
Some rural school districts andI was joking, I was talking
(27:06):
about my farmers earlier todayand I was like you cannot
understate the value of beingable to go online, click a bunch
of things, put it in your cartand be able to, like, purchase
it that way.
That doesn't mean that I'm thatI don't want someone to have a
phone call and say, hey, how arethose things looking, or do you
have two more pounds?
I know you listed this many.
(27:26):
Absolutely I want both.
And because those connections,that community, that I mean
that's how we continue to growand build, and so it doesn't
take the place.
And I mean that's how wecontinue to grow and build, for
sure, and so it doesn't take theplace and in no ways it's
coming alongside if that makesany sense.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, well,
and I think that leads us wellinto our next topic of
conversation.
I want to take a quick breakand talk to the people about
whatever things I say during themid-roll and then we'll come
back, and I want to talk reallyabout community, community
building.
For the back half of this, okay, great, we'll come right back.
Well, hey there, welcome to themid-roll.
How are you doing?
How are your houseplants?
Tell them I said hi.
Especially if you have a fiddleleaf fig, they get like real
(28:02):
lonely sometimes and all oftheir leaves fall off.
If you want more informationabout that, go back to the Q&A
episode from last time.
But thank you so much for you,thanks to the Texas Tech
Department of Plant and SoilScience for all of the support,
thanks to the Davis College ofAgricultural Science and Natural
Resources as well, but mostlythank you the listener.
(28:24):
I have done this for again, aswe were talking about in this
episode more than five years,and some of you have been with
me since the very beginning, andthat means the world to me.
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(28:46):
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(29:07):
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(29:27):
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(29:48):
What do you really enjoy aboutthe show?
Those things just make me feelwarm and fuzzy inside, but it
also helps me know what to focuson.
As far as Jessica's information,you'll hear a lot more in the
second part of the episode, butshe's got some great events
coming up, from Garden Guardiansto grower gatherings and all
kinds of other things, and soI'll have dates for that.
(30:09):
If you're in the Lubbock Texasarea and are interested in these
food systems we discussed andyou want to be a part of it,
come, join up, follow her onsocial media.
But, generally speaking, justbuild community.
If you want to know what youcan really do for me, just build
community, just be in community.
It's really important.
Okay, time for the second half.
(30:29):
Thanks, bye-bye.
Okay, well, we are back.
So a couple of things I want todiscuss.
One I want to talk about someof the actual garden efforts
that you're a part of, thatyou've built over time or that
have been built over time.
I think I give you a lot ofcredit.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I appreciate that.
But you're absolutely right,there was already interest in
community gardens, there wasalready interest in school
gardens and I definitely hopethat I have helped to make
Lubbock more green, like moregrowing spaces.
I hope I've supported that.
I know I have I shouldn't say Ihope.
I know I've supported that.
But also this couldn't be doneby just me.
In fact, that's my pinch pointnow, honestly, is trying to
(31:05):
figure out how, where do I hire?
Whether that's a person that'sgoing to run a community garden
workday, whether that's a personthat's going to go provide some
maintenance at a school garden.
So that's been in the last yearor so.
It's been like trying, like, ohright, I should be, I can.
(31:26):
Actually I don't have to be atevery single workday and in fact
it's probably better for thesystem if I pay someone else to
do that, because, number one,I've trained someone else to do
the things I hope in a way thatwould help those places grow.
Number two, there's more peoplethat know what we're doing.
There's more it's spread outagain back to that resilience If
(31:47):
something horrible happens tome where I'm like, there's
people that know how to do this.
So so yeah, that's been thelast year or so of growth was
like, oh right, I need to besharing that load and creating
even an economy for gardeners.
Yeah, so helping pour into that.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And that piece of handing things away is hard.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's so hard.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And it's and yes, there's some ego.
I'm going to acknowledgethere's some ego.
I'm not great aboutacknowledging that there is, but
also like it's just.
Also my heart is like I love tobe there.
That's what I want to do, ofcourse.
I want to be there.
I'm also exhausted.
What?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And it's less than two days, whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And it's no good to anyone if I do that Right.
So so anyway, for all thereasons, yeah, no listen, you
know what.
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I do I do but so okay .
So let's start off with some ofthe garden projects.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Because I think there have been.
I know you've learned a lotthrough this process and I've
learned a lot kind of workingthrough some of this with you.
Yes, there's several around ourcommunity that are up and
running School gardens,community gardens, et cetera.
Like what are your thoughts onhow to develop something like
this?
Are there?
What are some of your successstories and maybe what are some
of the pitfalls that you foundalong the way?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I have.
So, yeah, just like no bots.
I have several other mottos.
One is we don't need moregardens, we need more gardeners.
And not to say that I don't loveputting in a new garden
Obviously I do, I can't not loveit but there's so many places
around our town that someone puta ton of resources, a ton of
(33:24):
energy into and so supportingthose spaces and making sure
they're still as thriving aspossible is hugely important.
And I think that people, whenthey're thinking pie in the sky
I love another word, forgive me,it might be slightly
inappropriate when someone saysyou should, you should go do
this, I'm like stop shitting onme, please.
(33:45):
Yeah, no, it's good and it'shelpful because when you're in
this space and you're in anonprofit or whatever else like,
people think that they want toshare all their special ideas
with you, and I love it.
But also I'm already doing abunch of these things.
So what is it I'm going to takea replace of, and so, anyway,
(34:07):
all that to say there are, I didcreate, I have on my website a
map of school and communitygardens for Lubbock.
You can, it's a Google map soyou can click on the location
where possible.
I have contact information, andso that's something I created a
long time ago because, again, Ihad started my one garden and
was like everyone needs a garden.
I love it, all the gardens.
And now I'm like, oh crap,there's a lot of gardens, guys,
(34:31):
are all these being maintainedor are we growing things?
Are we are?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
they active.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, they are not.
No, they are not.
And so that's one of my lessonsis we need more gardeners, and
and I think a community gardenis a great place to come and be
a novice gardener, even ifyou're not even taking ownership
just come hang out for one ofthe work days, whether that's at
the heart of Lubbock or rootsBooker to Washington Community
Garden.
They will show you what to do.
(34:56):
You don't need any information,you don't need any education.
They will teach you how to doit.
So I just share that.
To say for sure, come out, be anovice gardener and, honestly,
you might learn something youtake back to your home garden,
your patio, whatever.
So that's one of my.
The other mantra I have,especially in growing in
community settings, is always beplanting, especially in schools
(35:18):
.
That's my very favorite sayingfor schools, because I mean
schools are the knob, they'reall novices, they're novices at
everything.
I mean all the things.
And so this isn't my story, thestory I heard, but I love it so
I'll share it.
And that said a school garden.
They sent out the fourthgraders to go pick all the
cucumbers and they came backfrom the garden and they were
(35:41):
like look, look we, this is whatwe got and and the teacher says
oh, that's not cucumbers, andthat was the year they had no
watermelons oh yeah and so like,because baby watermelons for
anybody who's new to this, theylook like cucumbers kind of
they're pretty similar.
(36:02):
So always be planting, becauseyou, if you're gardening in
community, it could be a dog.
We've had one of our schoolgardens.
A dog gets inside the fence anddigs up their freshly planted
garlic.
Thanks guys, it doesn't have tobe a child's mistake, it's
gardening community.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And so there's anything can happen.
So always be planting, and Itry when I can.
Another gardening mantra is Idon't have to be good at
everything, I don't.
Spoiler alert, I do not starttomatoes and peppers from seed.
That's just not a thing thathas gotten to the height of my
(36:41):
to-do list, because I can buygreat transplants, whether
that's at a local nursery orfrom one of my farmers, and
that's what I would recommend isto buying from those two
sources first, if at allpossible, because those places
are generally going to begrowing things that are better
for our area versus our big boxstores.
Okay.
So I've had people say to melike how come the plants I'm
(37:04):
buying at Home Depot aren'tdoing like they used to do?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
And I'm like well, it's not North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
So here's a step.
Here's a step is to go to alocal nursery.
Go to a farmer at a farmer'smarket.
Ask them where they, where theyor if they're growing any
transplants.
Ask them if they could growsome for you.
If they're not selling themalready, ask why not.
So that's my, that's one of mylessons.
I don't start those.
There's things I do because Ieither know how to do it already
and there's like one or two newthings I take on every year to
(37:31):
learn.
That's that just everything isits own.
It could be its own book.
You have a whole book oncarrots, and so if I, there's no
way you're going to know how togrow all the things in one year
.
So, just like pick one or twothings, do that and then add on.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
So yeah, I think that is such a good piece of advice
because people get scared aboutstarting gardens.
They get scared about beingpart of some of these efforts,
because it's like I don't knowGood.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Fine yeah, we love it .
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Come on Sometimes there's less to unlearn.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yes, oh my gosh, because we get into these ruts
of like I have to grow thesethings.
It's like do you like thosethings?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,okay, stop, don't grow that
thing.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
That's a lot of work.
You'll spend $1,000 to get fourtomatoes, exactly, and you
don't even like tomatoes, oh my.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
God.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
That would be the worst.
Everyone wants to grow tomatoes.
That's another piece of gettinginto this space, and I'm
stealing this from anotherinfluencer online person, but
Gardenary.
She's great.
Check out her Instagram.
She's got a lot of greatlessons.
So I've followed her for a verylong time and one of the things
she talks about is howdifferent plants are different
(38:43):
levels of difficulty.
So your tomatoes, your peppers,those are like a marathon.
No one starts out running amarathon, and if you do good for
you but not many of us can juststart out doing that, okay,
most of us have to go to thecouch to 5K first time.
Okay.
So, like and your couch to 5K isgoing to be your leaves,
(39:07):
because we think about plantsand how they grow.
That's the first thing thathappens, so it's a shorter thing
.
So lettuces and cilantro andlike leafy green things.
Okay, those are your shorterthings.
Your next level of and I wouldsay even easier than that, maybe
it's just your walk around theblock and on a couch to 5k is
you buy herbs.
From wherever you're going tobuy herbs, I don't care if you
(39:30):
buy at the store, the big boxstore.
Buy an herb and put it in a potor put it in your raised bed
and keep it alive.
That's great.
That is level one.
And then level two is maybethose leafy greens, and then
you've got roots.
That's like your level three,and then maybe you finally might
get to like tomatoes andpeppers.
So yeah, but a lot of peoplewant it.
(39:51):
They want that summer tomato.
It's so alluring.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, no, and it's wonderful, and like I don't want
to diminish it because like Ithink there's people that do
that really well, sure.
And there's people that areactually A-OK with spending a
bunch of money and time to growa handful of tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
They get meaning out of it and that's great, good,
good for you Love it.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
But, but I think that more people end up discouraged
by that than than actually findjoy in the small return on that
investment.
But but, like you're right,there is no almost like, from a
vegetable standpoint, freshveggie standpoint like being
able to go out and pick cherrytomatoes off the the bush and
eat them is just like the bestthing, it's joy.
(40:31):
It's the best.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Absolutely, and they're so good yes.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
But that is sort of a second, third, tier.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, because it's a lot of work, and so if you want
to experience that, please comejoin a community garden in
August.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
In September, maybe even better, a school or
community garden, because theywill probably have a cherry
thing.
That's going crazy and youdon't have to do it yourself and
you can still have some of thatjoy.
So there's ways of stillenjoying that.
That's how I see the gardenerspace and supporting those
spaces.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Absolutely, which I guess I think sort of leads me
into our last point of the keyhere, I think, to this whole
thing it's not the plants, it'snot the infrastructure, it's the
community that builds anddevelops to support those things
, to develop those things, tooperate those things.
And it sounds weird, but in anylike I think, everything is
(41:26):
ecology and I say this to mystudents Everything is ecology,
yeah, ecology, and I say this tomy students, everything is
ecology, whether it's ourpersonal ecosystems, where the
more good things we sort of putinto our ecosystem the more
resilient we are from food toexercise, like all of those
things.
But then, like when somethinggoes wrong, there are
interventions you can likevaccines and medicine.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yes, that's why we have medicine.
Yes, so we intercede in theecosystem when we need to Right
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
But then we look at the community and it operates,
in my mind, very much like anecosystem.
It has all of these differentparts and all of these parts
have a role to play in that theyhave a niche in that ecosystem
and then, when you start to losethose parts, the ecosystem does
not function as well, our foodwebs are that way, our economies
(42:15):
are that way.
Everything goes back to ecologybecause we are part of the
ecosystem of the planet.
Right In that, I think we do alot of work in ecosystem
restoration, and how do werebuild these ecosystems where
they fall apart?
And I think that's somewherethat you have been very
successful, whether you did itintentionally or with this.
You've been very successful inbuilding this community, as
(42:39):
you've sort of, and you'veanswered this a little bit, but,
like, the question I reallyhave is, as you've started
pulling all these very diversegroups of people together, like
I don't even know how to ask thequestion Like what, how, how
did you do it?
Because that's something that Ithink is so hard to replicate
sometimes, but I think that ifyou have like tips, tricks,
(43:02):
things that you have found thatare like, hey, this was a really
good way that the or my growers, I don't know glommed onto, or
they really hated this, I'm notdoing that again.
Like do you have like practicalpieces of advice in that
community building?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, so I think one piece of advice which I haven't
thought about this in a meta wayis that some of these things I
inherited.
I inherited a gathering.
It was part of a coalition ofpeople addressing hunger, and so
that gathering name was hungerand horticulture, and that was
(43:36):
both growers and school andcommunity gardens.
And I just started I, I joke,don't act interested in
something, I'll put you incharge of it.
I, I wanted to be, I wanted togo see the places and I wanted
to do the things.
Next thing, I know I'm the oneinviting people and like doing
things, and so, right, and sohere we go, and I would say,
(43:57):
with 2020, that ended and aswe've kind of rebooted in our
gatherings, it's actuallyspecialized, and so now I have
meetings, I have growergatherings I call them with
growers, and we've done that atfarms.
We've done that at restaurants,usually, hopefully, restaurants
that are either currentlybuying local produce from us or
(44:19):
we're hoping to encourage themto start buying and meet the
farmer.
And here you go, we're comingto your place of business and
giving you business, et cetera.
Right, and so those are growergatherings that we've done off
and on.
My goal would be to be moreconsistent I would like to be,
but that hasn't been, hasn'tbeen achieved last year at least
anyway.
And then next is school andcommunity garden gatherings, and
(44:40):
so I'm calling that as of lastyear I renamed it as garden
guardians okay and so the ideais that school and community
gardens gardening community is awhole other thing and I wanted
to think but if you care aboutit, then you are guarding that
space Like you are taking careof that space and so like
thinking about that.
So that's opportunity for me.
(45:01):
I try and make sure quarterlyto obviously advertise and host
it.
We're going to have our nextone on March 22nd at 10 am at
Roscoe Wilson Magic Garden.
It's a school garden.
That's one of the oldest, Ithink the oldest school garden
that we have here in Lubbock andI always try at these places to
make sure that's a chance forme to bring seeds, transplants,
(45:25):
soil if I have it supplies tocome alongside these people that
are gardening in communityBecause I know firsthand how
exhausting it is to be in chargeof that are gardening in
community because I knowfirsthand how exhausting it is
to be in charge of that, andthat's part of what I remember
and I remind myself is it's it's.
It can feel pretty alonesometimes if you're the one
making all those decisions onyour own about that community
(45:45):
garden space, and so this is achance to like how do you do
that?
What's that about?
I, as far as tips, I do thisout of self-interest.
I like these are my people, solike I want to see these people.
And I get a little in my headsometimes like, oh, I want to
get perfect and I haven't sentan invitation and whatever,
whatever, I don't have the rightsupplies.
(46:07):
But honestly, we need to.
We need to get over ourimperfections.
We just host the gathering.
Host it.
Is there a group of people thatyou want to build community
with?
There's some overlap.
There's something you'recurious about?
Let's do it and don't worryabout that.
You don't have it perfect.
Pick two things.
Like I know a location, I got atime.
I got at least two people thatwant to come Check and just go
(46:29):
out on a limb and see if wecan't do it, cause I think the
the value is in the gathering,it's not in the the little
things I made for it, themuffins or whatever like that
the values in the gathering.
And so and I never know whatI'm going to get- at the
gathering.
We never.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
I can't predict it, it's always valuable it is, and
I think it is.
I see a secondary benefit too,and I'm trying to figure out the
right way to say this, but Ithink that there's value in the
primary gathering right, gettingpeople there to whatever.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah.
Have snacks hang out talk aboutoh my God, the squash beetles
are so bad this year.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Whatever it is Right, but you're also teaching
community, teaching the I don'tknow ethos of community.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
So, more than just this, there's this gathering
today, and I understand how thatfeels too, because sometimes
it's like, well, there were twopeople here today, but those two
people are learning community.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Sure For sure.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
They can build their own Again, if we're building a
web, right A wheel and spokes.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yes, they're the next spokes.
They're the next.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Right, and so I think that it sounds weird, as a
species that very much hasevolved and was built for
community, that we don't knowhow to do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Like we don't know how to do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Like we don't, yeah Cause I think we used to know
how to do it.
I think we have, as a society,fallen out of community there's
over the past 50 years orwhatever.
There's some.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I just saw something on some major news network and
they had somebody did a studyabout, like, how many parties
people go to and like it waslike that like the average
number of parties like hasreally decreased over the past
40, 50 years, and so I do.
I have a another person Ifollow.
Yes, I'm following a lot ofpeople.
(48:23):
Whatever, it's fine.
How to gather.
She wrote a book called how togather.
I'm blanking on her name, butshe is amazing and her instagram
is amazing because she doesgive you those.
The thing I said.
I stole it from her.
I was like don't you don't haveto be perfect, just invite
people over.
You could have a build my Ikeafurniture party, like I mean.
And for my gardens, I hope tohave my garden guardians like,
(48:47):
okay, at this session we'regoing to build a compost sifter,
I'm going to bring some scrapwood and some.
Whatever, we're gonna do ittogether.
I don't have to have it madeyeah whatever it is, gather
around something that is your.
You are excited to talk tothose people.
That's that.
That is, that's the recipe I.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I think you're absolutely right and I again I'm
.
It makes I I feel old sayingthings like this, but I grew up
running around the neighborhooduntil the streetlights came on.
Yes, and slightly past.
Absolutely In the summer we'dstay out and enjoy the cooler
weather.
Yes, and I don't know if it'sthese.
(49:32):
If do know it's, it's fear,often from whatever the source
of that fear is that keeps usfrom community and drives wedges
into that to those communities.
But you know, what'sinteresting is I see it sounds
so weird, but like Gen Z throwsPowerPoint parties.
Have you seen these?
Speaker 2 (49:50):
No.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Like everyone will make a powerpoint about a topic
and they go over to someone'shouse.
Oh wait, I have seen this andit's like, not like it's, it can
be important.
Yeah, a lot of times it's notyeah but it's like, here's a
funny way to spare us to share aspecial interest, right, yeah,
like I think we, we findcommunity where we can, but I I
really like this idea thateverything doesn't have to be
(50:12):
Instagrammable.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Your house doesn't have to meet the aesthetic for
the algorithm when your friendscome over?
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yes, I don't have any .
I don't have many friends thatare going to go take a picture
of the clutter in the corner ofthe kitchen and post on.
There's one I can think of thatI'm like you're such a jerk.
Sure, yes, and we all have thatcorner and it's okay, it's.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Let's normalize that sometimes we're going to have a
little clutter on the like.
Okay, that doesn't mean weshouldn't gather.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
The value of it is so much larger and whether that's
in your kitchen or on the farmor whatever, like the clutter is
part of being human yes, Ithink also that our habits
habits are.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
if we don't have a thing that's drawing us out or a
scheduled thing.
Our habits are, they make us,and so I think about our
children, I think about ourdigital lives.
It's not as to why don't I, whydon't I have a glass of wine on
the patio with my neighbor?
You know, and it's because I'm,I just didn't think about it.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
And it's not my habit to do it.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
My habit is to watch a show with my kids and go to
bed.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
So like.
But we, I think we benefit, wewill have some real growth if we
stretch ourselves in this way,and it is a, it is a thing to to
work, and I think that allthese things take time.
We didn't talk about this alittle bit, but changing our
habits takes time.
It takes time to garden.
It does, but we, we getsomething out of that.
(51:40):
We benefit from that time.
We've talked about it before,but the I mean the mental health
benefits of gardening, physicalbenefits of gardening.
Yes, I want you to eat morevegetables, but guess what, Like
all the stuff along the way,it's the, it's the path, it's
not the end goal.
You didn't get any tomatoes.
Well, you know what you did get.
You were trying, you hadvitamin D from when you went
outside, you had your fingers inthe soil.
(52:00):
You're getting beneficialmicrobes, Like I mean, like
there was a lot of things thatwere happening along the way
that were still benefiting you,and so it's I, and so it's.
I say this, please do not hearme throwing.
I live in a glass house and I'mnot throwing stones.
(52:21):
I'm calling, I'm calling usforward to try and have better
habits, including my own.
Yeah, I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
I think we encourage people as we go and we encourage
each other as we go and we walkthrough.
You know, I don't know who saidit, but someone said that all
struggles are connected and Ithink about that a lot, because
as we struggle to learn togarden, as we struggle to learn
to be in community, like allthose things are connected and
there's no reason to strugglealone.
(52:44):
Right, we walk together.
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
And if I ever another tip if you want a tip about
this and about whether it'shabits or growing or whatever is
, if you are struggling withsomething, the first thing that
helps me is calling a friend.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
The first thing and I've done.
I, I literally will.
I've texted you before I know I, I will text another friend of
mine.
She actually is the director ofthe or the, whatever, the
parent in charge of the RoscoeWilson Magic Garden and I'll be
like hype me up, hype me up forthis.
I need a little like help meout.
Help me out Because I'm in myhead about it.
(53:20):
I want to make it perfect andshe's like dude, we're going to
have so much fun.
It's going to be great, likejust.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, take a deep breath.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Yes, and having those people in your corner, guess
what it feels good that youcalled them.
You're not in position.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
They felt good about that.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
And then when I hear like that's the gathering I want
to go to, I want to talk tothese other people.
You know who these people are.
I want to talk to these peoplethat are running community
gardens.
I want to learn how they didtheir signage.
I want whatever it is so like,sometimes I need, we need that
for each other and we, we, wecan, we can share and we can
serve each other.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
That's awesome.
Normally, I close theseepisodes by asking for like a
piece of life advice, but Ithink you've given a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I may have just done that.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
So I think you did pretty good.
I think you've covered all thebases.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
I don't know how to realize I was going to get so
philosophical.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
It's good.
What do you have coming up?
Is there stuff you want to plug?
Tell us where to find you allthe different things.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yes, so coming up, as I mentioned, we have Garden
Guardians and we're going to dothose once a season-ish, so
you'll see announcements forthat on my socials.
So I am at GrowingTogetherTX onboth Facebook and Instagram.
I do have a TikTok, but it'snot active.
Anyway, bear with me, I'm old,so and then I have a website, so
(54:39):
I do have some updates and somegeneral information, like the
maps of school gardens there, soit's really helpful.
You can obviously findlbkgrowncom, and we not only
have subscriptions, like I said,that sell out really quickly as
soon as I post them, but wealso offer custom orders.
It's $40 minimum so you can goin and put together whatever
there is available.
(54:59):
So I highly recommend.
We had some great customersthat were doing custom orders
last year, and so it's a midweekpickup.
It's a great way to getvegetables in the middle of the
week, not just have to go to thefarmer's market.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
And if someone out there listening is a grower or
an interested grower who wantsto get plugged in through the
website, is there a better like?
Is there an intake form?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (55:18):
So you can reach out to me at growingfairtexas at
gmailcom, and there's also acontact information on
lbkgrowncom, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Very cool.
Well, thank you for coming totalk to me again.
Yeah, that was fun five yearslater.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
I know, thanks for having me.
We're not strangers, so.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
I'm not going to say, don't be a stranger.
Yeah, no, we're not.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
But yes, thank you for having me again.
I appreciate it.
I look forward.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Y'all.
If there's one thing you takeaway from this whole season of
Plantthropology, I really hopethat it's.
Community is important, thatbuilding community is, in my
opinion, the way forward and theway through.
So many things, so many things.
Thanks so much to Jessica forbeing on and for her wisdom and
her knowledge and just for herwork in community building and
in the food space.
Thanks again to you, thelistener.
(56:07):
You know that I do this for youand I'm so glad that you're on
this journey with me.
Thanks once more to the TexasTech Department of Plant and
Soil Science and the DavisCollege of Agricultural Science
and Natural Resources.
Plantthropology is hosted,produced, recorded, edited and
all the things by yours truly.
Our theme music is by theaward-winning composer, nick
(56:30):
Scout, and all the listening isdone by you.
Thanks for being a part of it.
Keep being kind to one another.
If you have not been kind toone another, find a community
and be kind to them.
Be safe, be good and keep beingreally cool plant people you.
What is up?
Plant people it's time oncemore for the Plantthropology
Podcast, the show where we diveinto the lives and careers of
some very cool plant people tofigure out why they do what they
do and what keeps them comingback for more.
I'm Vikram Baliga, your hostand your humble guide in this
journey through the sciences and, as always, my friends.
I'm so excited to be with youtoday, and one of the reasons
I'm so excited is I get to talkto an old friend of the show, dr
(00:22):
Jessica Tuller-Caroom, and ifyou're a longtime listener, if
you're one of the OGs, as itwere, you may remember that way
back in March of 2020, oh, yes,that March of that 2020, you
know the one.
(00:42):
You remember it, maybe fondly,probably not.
Jessica came on to talk abouther community garden efforts, to
talk about what do we do, whatdo we do in the midst of a
global shutdown and foodshortages and all of those
things and some themes thatwe're kind of dealing with today
in some ways, and so Jessicaand I, community building and
(01:08):
the food production everythingelse that goes into a healthy
food economy is as important ormore important now than it has
ever been, as it has ever been,and this is just such a fun
conversation.
We get shockingly philosophicaland introspective through the
whole thing and maybe notshockingly.
(01:29):
I think that actually lendsitself well to the space of
those things today through foodefforts, through community
gardens, through school gardens,through working with local
producers, and has just such acool story.
(01:50):
So, without belaboring itanymore, grab a carrot or your
favorite piece of garden produce, send a text to your community
garden friends and yourneighbors and get ready for
episode 114 of thePlantthropology Podcast with Dr
Jessica Tuller-Caroom.
Jessica, welcome back Thanks.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Thanks, Vikram, for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
It's been five years.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
That is a little shocking.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Does that upset you too?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I may have told someone about recording this and
said oh yeah, I talked to himfive years ago, in 2000.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's not.
It's not OK.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And she said that's 25 years.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And I said oh, I know that I know I'm in 2020.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I'm in 20.
Just kidding, sorry, that's howold I am.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Well for one.
From my perspective, the factthat people are still listening
to this podcast five years lateris a little bit bonkers for me.
Yeah.
Good job, thank you.
Thank you, I'm giving myself asticker, but the fact that it
feels like we blinked and wewent through a whole lot while
we blinked.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Because we recorded.
I think we recorded in March of2020.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, which was right after it was right as it was
shut down.
I remember, because I rememberthe themes around that were
about like, what do we do, howdo we do this?
And, like my thought, mythinking was very insular and
closed Finding the joy then, andnow it's.
We're not all at home at all,but there is some work to
finding the joy again, so that'sokay.
(03:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, there's some rhythms and themes in our life
that are circling back, circlingback, yeah, for sure.
In terms of food and like a lotof things, a lot of things.
Yes, and so that's one of thereasons that I wanted to have
you on today and we'll get intothis as we go.
But talking, I think thisseason is largely going to be
built around community.
How do we build community infood practice and just in
(04:08):
general, and that's somethingthat you do very well.
I want to talk about, like the,your new things that you've
started since then and whatyou've learned through that
process and how people that wantto do similar things can start
it.
But first, why don't you justquickly reintroduce yourself,
tell us about you and where youcome from, all that stuff?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Okay, so I am born and raised in Texas.
I've lived all over Texas andmy husband's work brought us to
West Texas.
If you'd asked me years ago, Iwould not, would have predicted
that we would be here.
And here we are and I havealways.
I didn't even realize throughline of growing something.
I have always.
I didn't even realize throughline of growing something.
It wasn't something I wasnecessarily.
(04:47):
I never I'm not trained inhorticulture.
My undergraduate was in biology.
My graduate work was in publichealth.
I have a PhD in epidemiologyand I was doing population
health and occupational health,interested in those kinds of
areas, and my husband had amedical, traumatic medical
situation that luckily resolvedand he had that in 2014.
(05:14):
And yeah, and after that I justcouldn't.
My work in public healthresearch, I don't know, it was
just much.
It wasn't as meaningful to me,which is kind of funny.
Actually, my dissertation wason meaningful work.
My title of my dissertation wasaround a program called Sacred
(05:35):
Vocation, anyway.
So I did all that, studyingabout meaningful work and
talking about meaningful workand getting meaningful new work,
and then I was doing my stuffwhich I guess didn't realize at
the time, I wasn't finding verymeaningful, and so it's kind of
funny, right, yeah, anyway, andso and I was like I don't know,
I want to do something different.
(05:55):
I'm going to go part time andI'm going to start a garden at
my kid's school and I'd beengrowing in my backyard but I
kind of wanted to share thatwith others and do something
together.
It's a whole other animal tothink about growing in community
, to think about teachingsomeone, to think about having
grace for each other, learningfrom each other.
That's like a.
I mean you have to be in theright headspace.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Sure, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
To do any of that Versus you in your backyard.
Make all my own decisions.
This is how I want to do it,whatever.
So I started to garden at mykid's school.
It's a private school.
I basically became the bestvolunteer ever and was there all
the time and I loved it.
I was happy.
Maybe it wasn't balanced, but Iwas definitely getting a lot of
(06:40):
meaning out of it and I learneda lot.
I learned a lot, a lot, a lot.
So that was really great.
I had a lot of support fromother parents and teachers and
staff and that was great.
And on that process I met youand was talking about starting
gardens and you said whateveryou do, start small, and I tried
to bring that back, but myversion of small is perhaps not
(07:00):
what's relative.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It's all relative right, not what's relative.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It's all relative right.
So I'll remind everyone that'slesson number one start small,
but at any rate, I got to apoint especially around 2020,
where I was wondering I've donethis great work at this one
school I'd been working on, I'dalready been making connections
with other school and communitygardeners.
How do other people do this?
I'm not from here.
Teach me what in the?
(07:25):
What am I doing?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
wrong.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
What do you grow here ?
Because I was trying to figurethings out with Instagram and
Googling things and watchingYouTube and whatever, and so I
realized around 2019, 2020, thatI needed to start a nonprofit
that supported school andcommunity gardens, because there
wasn't anything here for ourarea for this, for this kind of
(07:47):
work, and so that's kind of whatled me to here.
So it's a kind of windy roadfrom public health but I like to
say it's public health researchto public health practice yeah
because my meaning ultimatelyI'm not.
I'm learning about the flowersand native plants and whatever
else, but honestly, my ultimatelike motivation motivator from
(08:10):
all this was eating more plants.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
How to eat more plants and doing it in an edible
way edible landscaping,whatever that is and so, yeah,
that was a public healthpractice side.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That's an interesting thought too, because I think,
especially today in general, wehave to, I think, contextualize
the work we do differently insome ways right, whether we're
in the sciences or whether we'rein a strictly basic research
field or an applied researchfield.
Everything is currently in flux.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yes, for many reasons .
So many reasons, so manyreasons yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And being able to sort of like redefine value in
your work is important.
Yeah, and I think, as peoplestress out which I think a lot
of us are right there's a lot ofanxiety of what am I going to
do?
What if I lose my job?
Being able to recontextualizeis really important and that's a
learned skill, maybe.
Maybe that comes with maturity,maybe that comes with
(09:06):
experience, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Uncertainty is high right now.
I think I heard somethingrecently that like there's like
somebody has developed a measureof uncertainty and it's like
its highest level.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh, that's depressing .
I don't want to Sorry there wasa measurement, someone measured
it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I know us nerdy nerds , so so yeah, and I think,
having re, re remindingourselves why, why do I do what
I do, can I find another way todo that If this changes?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And, as a nonprofit person, we do that all the time.
We figure out another way.
Okay, that's not going to workanymore, let's try something
else.
What was?
Why are we doing this?
Oh, right, to get people to eatmore plants.
Okay, how do we do that again?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah, Keeping the main, I guess, staying
mission focused right, Keepingthe big picture.
One of my colleagues said themission doesn't change the
things that we are trying toaccomplish with our students,
with our communities.
It doesn't change.
We may have to approach themdifferently.
We may have to approach themdifferently.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
We may have to talk about them differently, but our
goals don't change Absolutely,absolutely, and we can still
have those goals.
There can be lots of changesand we can still have our same
goals.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, that doesn't stop.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So okay, in the last five years then, as I guess a
response to some of these thingsthat you were interested in
that, you found, I guess, apassion in or some meaning in
potentially what's come out ofthat, because you've started a
whole lot of new things, you doa lot of things.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Some would say too many, but not me.
No, I'm kidding.
The nonprofit Growing TogetherTexas has three focuses
gardeners, growers and cooks.
I see these to be interrelated.
I see them to be.
If you imagine a three-leggedstool, you need all three for
that thing.
So gardeners need cooks to beable to cook there.
(10:51):
If it's not themselves, someoneelse cook their vegetables.
They also need growers, I wouldargue, because I think that we
can learn from each other.
You can learn from growers.
If you go to Farmish Market,ask them questions, you can
learn what is it, what is thevariety you're planting that
looks so good, because my stufflooks like crap.
So I mean, like those are greatquestions to ask.
I've asked, I've learned about,like, how do you get these
(11:11):
stupid carrots to germinate?
Oh, you have a seed mat on top.
Oh, no wonder.
Okay, now I'm figuring out whatyou do that helps keep your
moisture consistent so that youcan then have that germination,
consistent germination forcarrots.
So, like those kinds of thingsyou learn by asking.
And who better to ask thansomeone that's doing it
hopefully for their livelihood?
I mean, they're doing it on amassive scale.
(11:32):
Not everything's going to work,but it's a great, that's a
great source.
So and then growers need cooks,because who is going to eat
their food unless we know how tocook it?
It does us no good to grow afield of turnips if nobody knows
how they like turnips Right.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I don't know how I like turnips.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I have ideas so.
So, yeah, I see them as allinterrelated and feeding into a
larger piece about food access,and a lot of my work is honestly
about food access and I, whileI'm interested in, like I said,
pretty gardens and pretty thingsand all the things, ultimately
(12:09):
it's about.
It's about food and hopefullynutritious food.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So yeah, so that led you to.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
so did that lead you first, I guess, to growing
together, texas, or so I yeah, Iwanted a nonprofit that
supported that supported schooland community gardens, so that
was the okay.
I wanted a nonprofit thatsupported school and community
gardens, so that was the okay.
I'm going to do GrowingTogether, texas.
I also wanted to supportgrowers, so that's where I came
up with this like whatever mylike trilogy gardeners, growers
and cooks.
And so to do that, some of theprograms that we've done things
(12:39):
have evolved over time, so I mayhave started out one time like
like for cooks, for a reallyfocused project for cooks.
I used to do during actually2021, very early on.
I did these meal bags and itwas an idea, kind of like Green
Chef is a thing I used a whileago, but people have like meal
prep companies that bring it toyour door.
(13:00):
And I figured if I could usethat and that's helpful, surely
everyone could use this.
And so we sold, like I don'tknow, 12, 15 bags, very small
amount, not like a.
This isn't a large thing, butit was like, okay, I can find
enough produce for this many,and then I would buy also like a
box of pasta or whatever elseto round out the recipe.
(13:21):
And $5 of your bag that youbought went towards a bag for
someone in need.
And so then I did a version fora bag of someone in need
because it wouldn't be the exactsame time.
I had to kind of like do thosefunds and then do the next one,
and we paired that with comingout to a community garden and
also hopefully like harvesting,some kind of trying to connect
further in that way.
(13:42):
Those I no longer do.
Those meal bags, I know peopleloved them.
My customers are like, well, wemissed the meal bags.
Yeah, it's a lot of work and megoing around to multiple
grocery stores buying like eightboxes of pasta here and four
boxes of pasta there, it's kindof nonsense.
And yes, I could order themonline or whatever else.
That would require planning.
I was not that planful.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
No, it's a lot of work.
Anything like that is a lot ofwork.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, and so what I started to do instead?
The last two years it's evolvedinto a subscription box and so
we offer that.
So my support of growers hasevolved and I got a grant to
start an online farmer's marketand that online farmer's market
is called LBK Grown, so you cantype in lbkgrowncom, and at this
(14:25):
one moment we are not open, buthopefully, maybe by the time
this releases we will be liveagain.
There's not enough produce inthe winter, winter months, it's
really hard to have enoughproduce to be able to open up.
So, and there's also I feellike I joke, it's like that
ground equipment where it's in acircle.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
They probably take them out because they're super
dangerous.
No, not a merry-go-round.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The kind that you like if you're on it and
someone's like running.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Oh, you like, hold on for dear life.
Yes, for dear life.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, and you're like jumping in and people probably
I'm sure there's many injuriesoff this thing there's got to
bring to us.
So I'm trying not to do that.
I'm trying to have enough thatorders would be big enough that
(15:17):
it would make sense for peopleto collaborate and come together
and bring their order together.
So, at any rate, one of thethings we added on to this
online farmer's market was asubscription program, just like
a magazine subscription, and soyou would order for 10 weeks at
a time, eight weeks at a time,and you would get a box of
vegetables we have priced boxpriced at $25, and then a box
(15:38):
priced at 30 that has nochemical produce.
That's what we're calling it.
None of our farmers areorganically certified.
That's like a wholeconversation, so I won't get
into all the details, but that'sa whole thing.
And so our farmers have agreedto a terminology they call
chemical-free, which involves noonly organic certified
chemicals.
(15:58):
According to the USDA right.
If you have to use but little aspossible.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Right sure.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And so those are the inputs.
Okay, and so that was.
A request from our customerswas to create a chemical-free
option, and so we've done that.
I have to charge a little bitmore because those things often
cost more number one and I needto be able to have enough room
in the box to still kind of makeit worth people's while but, we
(16:28):
have sold out the box everytime I never I.
I have more people.
I think I could sell 100 boxesand I don't have 100 shares of
radishes every week kind ofthing, so I can't do that.
I've had lots of compliments onwhat we put in the box.
We always have a range ofthings.
I'm not going to put five headsof lettuce in it and that takes
(16:49):
some nuance there.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
That takes some decision making and sometimes
some creative thinking around.
What do you have?
What could we do to round thisout?
And then I have two recipes inthe box.
I'm no longer doing any extrasof pasta or tortillas or
whatever, it's just the produce,but I'll give you an idea.
So if I put turnips in the box,I have a recipe for turnips.
(17:13):
If I put a spaghetti squash, Ihad a recipe card that had a QR
code you could scan.
That would show you a video notmy video I've got time to make
that but a video of someone'svideo of how to cut a spaghetti
squash.
Also, people have made thesethings.
I'm just making it that mucheasier so you can just boop all
right, cool, that's how you cutit Done and our customers have
(17:36):
loved it and they've really beenvery appreciative.
I almost feel guilty because,like I said, I have more people
interested than I have produce,and so I literally have friends
who are like every time you sendme a note, it's already sold
out by the time I look.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I'm like I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I disappointed you once again.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
That's a good problem to have.
It's a good problem to have.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Well, and I think so on like the community business
side that should be showingpeople growers, producers.
Yes, that there's room in themarket.
Yes, I think people have thisweird idea around here that oh,
you can't grow food here.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Oh right For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
There's also the idea that people don't want fresh
produce here Absolutely, whichis a?
Weird concept to me.
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I disagree and I have these conversations with my
growers, with our community.
Anytime I have something aboutthat, I'm like, yeah, those
people aren't our people, I'mnot worried about it.
Yeah, we're going to keeptalking about what we do.
We're going to keep and guesswhat?
It's fine.
We're selling as much as, andnobody's upset about the price,
(18:39):
nobody's upset about the.
They're upset they can't get in.
So that's that's that speaks tothe market, that speaks to the
to the demand is absolutelythere and it shows.
I think that's what had beenone of the revelations for my
growers.
I luckily have a fantasticfarmer advisory board.
I have four farmers that I bringdecisions to.
(18:59):
I'm like okay, what are wegoing to charge for X, Y, Z?
What are we going to do aboutthis?
How many weeks do you want?
Whatever, it is okay.
Those conversations are withfarmers.
It's not Jessica Brando Gardnermaking these decisions, and
I've learned so much from them,and one of the things that
they've learned from each otheris the trust in each other that
(19:22):
there is more demand in themarket than they could ever meet
, and so they're actually bettertogether.
They've actually gotten to apoint where they're specializing
more.
So it's like you're really goodat growing.
I'm going to let you do that,I'm not going to do that.
It doesn't make any sense forme, and so that is the mark of
like.
(19:42):
We have ratcheted up a foodsystem where people are trusting
each other to do some of thosethings.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And I think you use that word exactly right.
What you're doing is building afood system.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And a lot of times.
I think you have hit on a verykey component of, I think, what
we'll discuss a lot of the restof the episode, and what one of
the big challenges is is findinghow these pieces fit together.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Right, because I think a lot of these local and
I've been doing this a longtime- here too.
We've worked together on thisfor I mean more than 10 years at
this point More than a decade,yeah.
And what we see over and overin these local food efforts is
(20:28):
kind of what you're talkingabout, that everyone's like oh,
I have to grow all the thingsbecause I need to take all the
things to the farmer's marketand I need to compete with Bobby
over here, and so we get ninepeople growing tomatoes and
lettuce and whatever right,whatever it is.
Instead of saying you know whatI really hate growing tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I hate picking okra yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, you're itching for days.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'd prefer not do okra ever again.
If I could not do okra, exactlyGreat.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
But somebody else is really good at it, yes, and so I
think finding these pieces andthe ways that all these like
gears turn together to make amachine that actually runs is
super important.
And that is I hear this frompeople all the time Like I've
worked in again the food spacefor quite a while, the food
production, local foodproduction space for a while is
that, oh, these systems don'twork, they can't work together,
(21:11):
they can't like there's.
I hear it, I've heard it at alllevels.
I was in a meeting in DC abouteight years ago for this like
southern region food productionthing and I had like eight
people say that it doesnproduction thing and I had like
eight people say that it doesn'twork.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Okay, but it has to work.
So here's the thing theexisting system doesn't work, so
either build a new system orfix it Like that's.
I mean, I talk about this whenI'm dealing with any new project
or any whatever.
There's certain people in ourlives.
I call them no bots.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You just once, and once you have that term, I don't
know it helps me.
I'm like oh hi, you're a no bot, that's definitely good.
Good.
So like you can, I mean it doesnot matter what I say to you,
because you're uninterested infinding a solution.
I either need to go around you,I need to go above you, but
(22:10):
we're like that, and then notwasting my time.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Who's got time?
Nobody's got time for that I'mdone.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
So yeah, once I figure out oh you're a no bot,
oh it's like it's freeing.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, and I think, I think, being honest, that and
that's really an interestingthought too that we have to be
honest about the systems inwhich we work.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Some of them don't work.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Some of them don't work.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, but what's the alternative I'm going to have?
We have growers in our systemand we all know this.
Okay, the age of the averageage of farmer is super high.
There's not as much food beingproduced in the U?
S I'm not stating new knowledgeso how do you get there?
I would argue that if youalready have someone growing
(22:56):
something on a small scale, it'sa lot easier for me to
hopefully come alongside them.
There is demand out there.
They're doing all the thingshopefully help meet a little bit
more of that demand and helpthem grow bigger in a safe and
sustainable way.
Let's all take care of ouremployees.
Let's do this in a way thatprotects the soil.
(23:17):
I'm in no way sacrificing that.
There's reasons why we havethose friction points, but that
doesn't mean we can't envision anew way.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right, absolutely so the pieces of, I guess, your
overall.
I'm going to use the word brandyeah, we had a conversation
about this not long ago.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, the pieces of your overall brand.
I'm going to use the word brand.
We had a conversation aboutthis not long ago.
Oh my gosh, yeah the pieces ofyour overall brand.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So you have Growing Together Texas, which is, I
guess, the collaborative piecebetween the farmers, or is that
more school and communitygardens?
Yes or yes, both, yes, both.
All of the above yes.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So gardeners, growers and cooks, and then under
growers is where I have LBKGrown.
Yes and for now LBK Grown is acommunity business run by the
nonprofit.
It is a nonprofit itselfbecause if I were first of all,
I'm losing money.
If I were to make money, itwould be reinvested anyway.
So whatever.
But eventually I do envisionthat to be something I spin off
(24:15):
and it becomes a farmer owned afarmer co-op owned whatever
situation.
But right now it's notsomething a farmer could take on
because it's a loss.
Yeah, sure, and so like eitherit doesn't happen at all.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Or it happens and we invest in the system to
hopefully get us somewhere.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, building infrastructure for sure, Right,
I like that a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That's really interesting and I think that the
nonprofit space is not for thefaint of heart just in general,
yeah.
It's a challenge at the best oftimes and in the best of
circumstances.
Yes yes, but I think that we'veseen the need for those kinds of
efforts in our space, right Inour societies.
(24:57):
In general, yeah, butespecially in the food space,
because there's a lot that's notworking about with, again, our
traditional food system and thisis not a and I don't want
people to think that this isintended to be a knock against
conventional markets because weneed them.
They're integral to our way oflife.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Going back to.
We are not open right now forthe online farmer's market.
So, yeah, I'm buying my carrotsat Costco this week, like
that's what it is, because it'swhere they are.
So, yeah, so we need ourconventional growers.
Maybe it looks different, maybeI would like it to look
different, but I think I'm notsaying that I want to exit that
completely.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
No, it's just a different one a diversification
of the market.
I think what we've seen in 2020,for sure, yeah, for sure, yeah,
and now again, for again a lotof reasons is that it's as big
as the system is, it's notresilient and it's fragile,
right, and we've got foodrotting in fields and places.
We have things that are grownand can't be harvested.
We've got we're going into a LaNina year, so we're going to
(26:03):
have water shortages across thecountry, especially through the
South and the West, where all ofour produce is grown.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Not all.
Most of our produce is grownand so we have to think about
okay, we have this big system,but how do we also regionalize
it a little bit to addresilience to the ecosystem, the
food ecosystem, right?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I heard someone say we have built networks.
We've built for efficiency andthat served a purpose, but, like
you said, our network is notresilient and now we really need
as many connections as possible, more of a web, because that's
going to be strengthened whensomething hits it and so it's a
nice I don't know.
It helped me think about like Idon't have to be thinking about
(26:46):
the most efficient way.
If I build a connection,there's still something my
online farmer's market so it'sprimarily aimed at bigger orders
, so restaurants or even thosein food service, like we had
some schools ordering this yearthanks to some funding, so
that's great.
Some rural school districts andI was joking, I was talking
(27:06):
about my farmers earlier todayand I was like you cannot
understate the value of beingable to go online, click a bunch
of things, put it in your cartand be able to, like, purchase
it that way.
That doesn't mean that I'm thatI don't want someone to have a
phone call and say, hey, how arethose things looking, or do you
have two more pounds?
I know you listed this many.
(27:26):
Absolutely I want both.
And because those connections,that community, that I mean
that's how we continue to growand build, and so it doesn't
take the place.
And I mean that's how wecontinue to grow and build, for
sure, and so it doesn't take theplace and in no ways it's
coming alongside if that makesany sense.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, well,
and I think that leads us wellinto our next topic of
conversation.
I want to take a quick breakand talk to the people about
whatever things I say during themid-roll and then we'll come
back, and I want to talk reallyabout community, community
building.
For the back half of this, okay, great, we'll come right back.
Well, hey there, welcome to themid-roll.
How are you doing?
How are your houseplants?
Tell them I said hi.
Especially if you have a fiddleleaf fig, they get like real
(28:02):
lonely sometimes and all oftheir leaves fall off.
If you want more informationabout that, go back to the Q&A
episode from last time.
But thank you so much for you,thanks to the Texas Tech
Department of Plant and SoilScience for all of the support,
thanks to the Davis College ofAgricultural Science and Natural
Resources as well, but mostlythank you the listener.
(28:24):
I have done this for again, aswe were talking about in this
episode more than five years,and some of you have been with
me since the very beginning, andthat means the world to me.
If you want to supportPlantthropology, the best thing
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Find someone who loves plantsor who you think should love
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(28:46):
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(29:07):
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(29:27):
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Tell me what your favoriteparts of episodes.
(29:48):
What do you really enjoy aboutthe show?
Those things just make me feelwarm and fuzzy inside, but it
also helps me know what to focuson.
As far as Jessica's information,you'll hear a lot more in the
second part of the episode, butshe's got some great events
coming up, from Garden Guardiansto grower gatherings and all
kinds of other things, and soI'll have dates for that.
(30:09):
If you're in the Lubbock Texasarea and are interested in these
food systems we discussed andyou want to be a part of it,
come, join up, follow her onsocial media.
But, generally speaking, justbuild community.
If you want to know what youcan really do for me, just build
community, just be in community.
It's really important.
Okay, time for the second half.
(30:29):
Thanks, bye-bye.
Okay, well, we are back.
So a couple of things I want todiscuss.
One I want to talk about someof the actual garden efforts
that you're a part of, thatyou've built over time or that
have been built over time.
I think I give you a lot ofcredit.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I appreciate that.
But you're absolutely right,there was already interest in
community gardens, there wasalready interest in school
gardens and I definitely hopethat I have helped to make
Lubbock more green, like moregrowing spaces.
I hope I've supported that.
I know I have I shouldn't say Ihope.
I know I've supported that.
But also this couldn't be doneby just me.
In fact, that's my pinch pointnow, honestly, is trying to
(31:05):
figure out how, where do I hire?
Whether that's a person that'sgoing to run a community garden
workday, whether that's a personthat's going to go provide some
maintenance at a school garden.
So that's been in the last yearor so.
It's been like trying, like, ohright, I should be, I can.
(31:26):
Actually I don't have to be atevery single workday and in fact
it's probably better for thesystem if I pay someone else to
do that, because, number one,I've trained someone else to do
the things I hope in a way thatwould help those places grow.
Number two, there's more peoplethat know what we're doing.
There's more it's spread outagain back to that resilience If
(31:47):
something horrible happens tome where I'm like, there's
people that know how to do this.
So so yeah, that's been thelast year or so of growth was
like, oh right, I need to besharing that load and creating
even an economy for gardeners.
Yeah, so helping pour into that.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And that piece of handing things away is hard.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's so hard.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And it's and yes, there's some ego.
I'm going to acknowledgethere's some ego.
I'm not great aboutacknowledging that there is, but
also like it's just.
Also my heart is like I love tobe there.
That's what I want to do, ofcourse.
I want to be there.
I'm also exhausted.
What?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And it's less than two days, whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And it's no good to anyone if I do that Right.
So so anyway, for all thereasons, yeah, no listen, you
know what.
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I do I do but so okay .
So let's start off with some ofthe garden projects.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Because I think there have been.
I know you've learned a lotthrough this process and I've
learned a lot kind of workingthrough some of this with you.
Yes, there's several around ourcommunity that are up and
running School gardens,community gardens, et cetera.
Like what are your thoughts onhow to develop something like
this?
Are there?
What are some of your successstories and maybe what are some
of the pitfalls that you foundalong the way?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I have.
So, yeah, just like no bots.
I have several other mottos.
One is we don't need moregardens, we need more gardeners.
And not to say that I don't loveputting in a new garden
Obviously I do, I can't not loveit but there's so many places
around our town that someone puta ton of resources, a ton of
(33:24):
energy into and so supportingthose spaces and making sure
they're still as thriving aspossible is hugely important.
And I think that people, whenthey're thinking pie in the sky
I love another word, forgive me,it might be slightly
inappropriate when someone saysyou should, you should go do
this, I'm like stop shitting onme, please.
(33:45):
Yeah, no, it's good and it'shelpful because when you're in
this space and you're in anonprofit or whatever else like,
people think that they want toshare all their special ideas
with you, and I love it.
But also I'm already doing abunch of these things.
So what is it I'm going to takea replace of, and so, anyway,
(34:07):
all that to say there are, I didcreate, I have on my website a
map of school and communitygardens for Lubbock.
You can, it's a Google map soyou can click on the location
where possible.
I have contact information, andso that's something I created a
long time ago because, again, Ihad started my one garden and
was like everyone needs a garden.
I love it, all the gardens.
And now I'm like, oh crap,there's a lot of gardens, guys,
(34:31):
are all these being maintainedor are we growing things?
Are we are?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
they active.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, they are not.
No, they are not.
And so that's one of my lessonsis we need more gardeners, and
and I think a community gardenis a great place to come and be
a novice gardener, even ifyou're not even taking ownership
just come hang out for one ofthe work days, whether that's at
the heart of Lubbock or rootsBooker to Washington Community
Garden.
They will show you what to do.
(34:56):
You don't need any information,you don't need any education.
They will teach you how to doit.
So I just share that.
To say for sure, come out, be anovice gardener and, honestly,
you might learn something youtake back to your home garden,
your patio, whatever.
So that's one of my.
The other mantra I have,especially in growing in
community settings, is always beplanting, especially in schools
(35:18):
.
That's my very favorite sayingfor schools, because I mean
schools are the knob, they'reall novices, they're novices at
everything.
I mean all the things.
And so this isn't my story, thestory I heard, but I love it so
I'll share it.
And that said a school garden.
They sent out the fourthgraders to go pick all the
cucumbers and they came backfrom the garden and they were
(35:41):
like look, look we, this is whatwe got and and the teacher says
oh, that's not cucumbers, andthat was the year they had no
watermelons oh yeah and so like,because baby watermelons for
anybody who's new to this, theylook like cucumbers kind of
they're pretty similar.
(36:02):
So always be planting, becauseyou, if you're gardening in
community, it could be a dog.
We've had one of our schoolgardens.
A dog gets inside the fence anddigs up their freshly planted
garlic.
Thanks guys, it doesn't have tobe a child's mistake, it's
gardening community.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And so there's anything can happen.
So always be planting, and Itry when I can.
Another gardening mantra is Idon't have to be good at
everything, I don't.
Spoiler alert, I do not starttomatoes and peppers from seed.
That's just not a thing thathas gotten to the height of my
(36:41):
to-do list, because I can buygreat transplants, whether
that's at a local nursery orfrom one of my farmers, and
that's what I would recommend isto buying from those two
sources first, if at allpossible, because those places
are generally going to begrowing things that are better
for our area versus our big boxstores.
Okay.
So I've had people say to melike how come the plants I'm
(37:04):
buying at Home Depot aren'tdoing like they used to do?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
And I'm like well, it's not North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
So here's a step.
Here's a step is to go to alocal nursery.
Go to a farmer at a farmer'smarket.
Ask them where they, where theyor if they're growing any
transplants.
Ask them if they could growsome for you.
If they're not selling themalready, ask why not.
So that's my, that's one of mylessons.
I don't start those.
There's things I do because Ieither know how to do it already
and there's like one or two newthings I take on every year to
(37:31):
learn.
That's that just everything isits own.
It could be its own book.
You have a whole book oncarrots, and so if I, there's no
way you're going to know how togrow all the things in one year
.
So, just like pick one or twothings, do that and then add on.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
So yeah, I think that is such a good piece of advice
because people get scared aboutstarting gardens.
They get scared about beingpart of some of these efforts,
because it's like I don't knowGood.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Fine yeah, we love it .
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Come on Sometimes there's less to unlearn.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yes, oh my gosh, because we get into these ruts
of like I have to grow thesethings.
It's like do you like thosethings?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,okay, stop, don't grow that
thing.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
That's a lot of work.
You'll spend $1,000 to get fourtomatoes, exactly, and you
don't even like tomatoes, oh my.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
God.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
That would be the worst.
Everyone wants to grow tomatoes.
That's another piece of gettinginto this space, and I'm
stealing this from anotherinfluencer online person, but
Gardenary.
She's great.
Check out her Instagram.
She's got a lot of greatlessons.
So I've followed her for a verylong time and one of the things
she talks about is howdifferent plants are different
(38:43):
levels of difficulty.
So your tomatoes, your peppers,those are like a marathon.
No one starts out running amarathon, and if you do good for
you but not many of us can juststart out doing that, okay,
most of us have to go to thecouch to 5K first time.
Okay.
So, like and your couch to 5K isgoing to be your leaves,
(39:07):
because we think about plantsand how they grow.
That's the first thing thathappens, so it's a shorter thing
.
So lettuces and cilantro andlike leafy green things.
Okay, those are your shorterthings.
Your next level of and I wouldsay even easier than that, maybe
it's just your walk around theblock and on a couch to 5k is
you buy herbs.
From wherever you're going tobuy herbs, I don't care if you
(39:30):
buy at the store, the big boxstore.
Buy an herb and put it in a potor put it in your raised bed
and keep it alive.
That's great.
That is level one.
And then level two is maybethose leafy greens, and then
you've got roots.
That's like your level three,and then maybe you finally might
get to like tomatoes andpeppers.
So yeah, but a lot of peoplewant it.
(39:51):
They want that summer tomato.
It's so alluring.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, no, and it's wonderful, and like I don't want
to diminish it because like Ithink there's people that do
that really well, sure.
And there's people that areactually A-OK with spending a
bunch of money and time to growa handful of tomatoes.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
They get meaning out of it and that's great, good,
good for you Love it.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
But, but I think that more people end up discouraged
by that than than actually findjoy in the small return on that
investment.
But but, like you're right,there is no almost like, from a
vegetable standpoint, freshveggie standpoint like being
able to go out and pick cherrytomatoes off the the bush and
eat them is just like the bestthing, it's joy.
(40:31):
It's the best.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Absolutely, and they're so good yes.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
But that is sort of a second, third, tier.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, because it's a lot of work, and so if you want
to experience that, please comejoin a community garden in
August.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
In September, maybe even better, a school or
community garden, because theywill probably have a cherry
thing.
That's going crazy and youdon't have to do it yourself and
you can still have some of thatjoy.
So there's ways of stillenjoying that.
That's how I see the gardenerspace and supporting those
spaces.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Absolutely, which I guess I think sort of leads me
into our last point of the keyhere, I think, to this whole
thing it's not the plants, it'snot the infrastructure, it's the
community that builds anddevelops to support those things
, to develop those things, tooperate those things.
And it sounds weird, but in anylike I think, everything is
(41:26):
ecology and I say this to mystudents Everything is ecology,
yeah, ecology, and I say this tomy students, everything is
ecology, whether it's ourpersonal ecosystems, where the
more good things we sort of putinto our ecosystem the more
resilient we are from food toexercise, like all of those
things.
But then, like when somethinggoes wrong, there are
interventions you can likevaccines and medicine.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yes, that's why we have medicine.
Yes, so we intercede in theecosystem when we need to Right
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
But then we look at the community and it operates,
in my mind, very much like anecosystem.
It has all of these differentparts and all of these parts
have a role to play in that theyhave a niche in that ecosystem
and then, when you start to losethose parts, the ecosystem does
not function as well, our foodwebs are that way, our economies
(42:15):
are that way.
Everything goes back to ecologybecause we are part of the
ecosystem of the planet.
Right In that, I think we do alot of work in ecosystem
restoration, and how do werebuild these ecosystems where
they fall apart?
And I think that's somewherethat you have been very
successful, whether you did itintentionally or with this.
You've been very successful inbuilding this community, as
(42:39):
you've sort of, and you'veanswered this a little bit, but,
like, the question I reallyhave is, as you've started
pulling all these very diversegroups of people together, like
I don't even know how to ask thequestion Like what, how, how
did you do it?
Because that's something that Ithink is so hard to replicate
sometimes, but I think that ifyou have like tips, tricks,
(43:02):
things that you have found thatare like, hey, this was a really
good way that the or my growers, I don't know glommed onto, or
they really hated this, I'm notdoing that again.
Like do you have like practicalpieces of advice in that
community building?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, so I think one piece of advice which I haven't
thought about this in a meta wayis that some of these things I
inherited.
I inherited a gathering.
It was part of a coalition ofpeople addressing hunger, and so
that gathering name was hungerand horticulture, and that was
(43:36):
both growers and school andcommunity gardens.
And I just started I, I joke,don't act interested in
something, I'll put you incharge of it.
I, I wanted to be, I wanted togo see the places and I wanted
to do the things.
Next thing, I know I'm the oneinviting people and like doing
things, and so, right, and sohere we go, and I would say,
(43:57):
with 2020, that ended and aswe've kind of rebooted in our
gatherings, it's actuallyspecialized, and so now I have
meetings, I have growergatherings I call them with
growers, and we've done that atfarms.
We've done that at restaurants,usually, hopefully, restaurants
that are either currentlybuying local produce from us or
(44:19):
we're hoping to encourage themto start buying and meet the
farmer.
And here you go, we're comingto your place of business and
giving you business, et cetera.
Right, and so those are growergatherings that we've done off
and on.
My goal would be to be moreconsistent I would like to be,
but that hasn't been, hasn'tbeen achieved last year at least
anyway.
And then next is school andcommunity garden gatherings, and
(44:40):
so I'm calling that as of lastyear I renamed it as garden
guardians okay and so the ideais that school and community
gardens gardening community is awhole other thing and I wanted
to think but if you care aboutit, then you are guarding that
space Like you are taking careof that space and so like
thinking about that.
So that's opportunity for me.
(45:01):
I try and make sure quarterlyto obviously advertise and host
it.
We're going to have our nextone on March 22nd at 10 am at
Roscoe Wilson Magic Garden.
It's a school garden.
That's one of the oldest, Ithink the oldest school garden
that we have here in Lubbock andI always try at these places to
make sure that's a chance forme to bring seeds, transplants,
(45:25):
soil if I have it supplies tocome alongside these people that
are gardening in communityBecause I know firsthand how
exhausting it is to be in chargeof that are gardening in
community because I knowfirsthand how exhausting it is
to be in charge of that, andthat's part of what I remember
and I remind myself is it's it's.
It can feel pretty alonesometimes if you're the one
making all those decisions onyour own about that community
(45:45):
garden space, and so this is achance to like how do you do
that?
What's that about?
I, as far as tips, I do thisout of self-interest.
I like these are my people, solike I want to see these people.
And I get a little in my headsometimes like, oh, I want to
get perfect and I haven't sentan invitation and whatever,
whatever, I don't have the rightsupplies.
(46:07):
But honestly, we need to.
We need to get over ourimperfections.
We just host the gathering.
Host it.
Is there a group of people thatyou want to build community
with?
There's some overlap.
There's something you'recurious about?
Let's do it and don't worryabout that.
You don't have it perfect.
Pick two things.
Like I know a location, I got atime.
I got at least two people thatwant to come Check and just go
(46:29):
out on a limb and see if wecan't do it, cause I think the
the value is in the gathering,it's not in the the little
things I made for it, themuffins or whatever like that
the values in the gathering.
And so and I never know whatI'm going to get- at the
gathering.
We never.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
I can't predict it, it's always valuable it is, and
I think it is.
I see a secondary benefit too,and I'm trying to figure out the
right way to say this, but Ithink that there's value in the
primary gathering right, gettingpeople there to whatever.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah.
Have snacks hang out talk aboutoh my God, the squash beetles
are so bad this year.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Whatever it is Right, but you're also teaching
community, teaching the I don'tknow ethos of community.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
So, more than just this, there's this gathering
today, and I understand how thatfeels too, because sometimes
it's like, well, there were twopeople here today, but those two
people are learning community.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Sure For sure.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
They can build their own Again, if we're building a
web, right A wheel and spokes.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yes, they're the next spokes.
They're the next.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Right, and so I think that it sounds weird, as a
species that very much hasevolved and was built for
community, that we don't knowhow to do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Like we don't know how to do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Like we don't, yeah Cause I think we used to know
how to do it.
I think we have, as a society,fallen out of community there's
over the past 50 years orwhatever.
There's some.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I just saw something on some major news network and
they had somebody did a studyabout, like, how many parties
people go to and like it waslike that like the average
number of parties like hasreally decreased over the past
40, 50 years, and so I do.
I have a another person Ifollow.
Yes, I'm following a lot ofpeople.
(48:23):
Whatever, it's fine.
How to gather.
She wrote a book called how togather.
I'm blanking on her name, butshe is amazing and her instagram
is amazing because she doesgive you those.
The thing I said.
I stole it from her.
I was like don't you don't haveto be perfect, just invite
people over.
You could have a build my Ikeafurniture party, like I mean.
And for my gardens, I hope tohave my garden guardians like,
(48:47):
okay, at this session we'regoing to build a compost sifter,
I'm going to bring some scrapwood and some.
Whatever, we're gonna do ittogether.
I don't have to have it madeyeah whatever it is, gather
around something that is your.
You are excited to talk tothose people.
That's that.
That is, that's the recipe I.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I think you're absolutely right and I again I'm
.
It makes I I feel old sayingthings like this, but I grew up
running around the neighborhooduntil the streetlights came on.
Yes, and slightly past.
Absolutely In the summer we'dstay out and enjoy the cooler
weather.
Yes, and I don't know if it'sthese.
(49:32):
If do know it's, it's fear,often from whatever the source
of that fear is that keeps usfrom community and drives wedges
into that to those communities.
But you know, what'sinteresting is I see it sounds
so weird, but like Gen Z throwsPowerPoint parties.
Have you seen these?
Speaker 2 (49:50):
No.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Like everyone will make a powerpoint about a topic
and they go over to someone'shouse.
Oh wait, I have seen this andit's like, not like it's, it can
be important.
Yeah, a lot of times it's notyeah but it's like, here's a
funny way to spare us to share aspecial interest, right, yeah,
like I think we, we findcommunity where we can, but I I
really like this idea thateverything doesn't have to be
(50:12):
Instagrammable.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Your house doesn't have to meet the aesthetic for
the algorithm when your friendscome over?
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yes, I don't have any .
I don't have many friends thatare going to go take a picture
of the clutter in the corner ofthe kitchen and post on.
There's one I can think of thatI'm like you're such a jerk.
Sure, yes, and we all have thatcorner and it's okay, it's.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Let's normalize that sometimes we're going to have a
little clutter on the like.
Okay, that doesn't mean weshouldn't gather.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
The value of it is so much larger and whether that's
in your kitchen or on the farmor whatever, like the clutter is
part of being human yes, Ithink also that our habits
habits are.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
if we don't have a thing that's drawing us out or a
scheduled thing.
Our habits are, they make us,and so I think about our
children, I think about ourdigital lives.
It's not as to why don't I, whydon't I have a glass of wine on
the patio with my neighbor?
You know, and it's because I'm,I just didn't think about it.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
And it's not my habit to do it.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
My habit is to watch a show with my kids and go to
bed.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
So like.
But we, I think we benefit, wewill have some real growth if we
stretch ourselves in this way,and it is a, it is a thing to to
work, and I think that allthese things take time.
We didn't talk about this alittle bit, but changing our
habits takes time.
It takes time to garden.
It does, but we, we getsomething out of that.
(51:40):
We benefit from that time.
We've talked about it before,but the I mean the mental health
benefits of gardening, physicalbenefits of gardening.
Yes, I want you to eat morevegetables, but guess what, Like
all the stuff along the way,it's the, it's the path, it's
not the end goal.
You didn't get any tomatoes.
Well, you know what you did get.
You were trying, you hadvitamin D from when you went
outside, you had your fingers inthe soil.
(52:00):
You're getting beneficialmicrobes, Like I mean, like
there was a lot of things thatwere happening along the way
that were still benefiting you,and so it's I, and so it's.
I say this, please do not hearme throwing.
I live in a glass house and I'mnot throwing stones.
(52:21):
I'm calling, I'm calling usforward to try and have better
habits, including my own.
Yeah, I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
I think we encourage people as we go and we encourage
each other as we go and we walkthrough.
You know, I don't know who saidit, but someone said that all
struggles are connected and Ithink about that a lot, because
as we struggle to learn togarden, as we struggle to learn
to be in community, like allthose things are connected and
there's no reason to strugglealone.
(52:44):
Right, we walk together.
Oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
And if I ever another tip if you want a tip about
this and about whether it'shabits or growing or whatever is
, if you are struggling withsomething, the first thing that
helps me is calling a friend.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
The first thing and I've done.
I, I literally will.
I've texted you before I know I, I will text another friend of
mine.
She actually is the director ofthe or the, whatever, the
parent in charge of the RoscoeWilson Magic Garden and I'll be
like hype me up, hype me up forthis.
I need a little like help meout.
Help me out Because I'm in myhead about it.
(53:20):
I want to make it perfect andshe's like dude, we're going to
have so much fun.
It's going to be great, likejust.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, take a deep breath.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
Yes, and having those people in your corner, guess
what it feels good that youcalled them.
You're not in position.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
They felt good about that.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
And then when I hear like that's the gathering I want
to go to, I want to talk tothese other people.
You know who these people are.
I want to talk to these peoplethat are running community
gardens.
I want to learn how they didtheir signage.
I want whatever it is so like,sometimes I need, we need that
for each other and we, we, wecan, we can share and we can
serve each other.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
That's awesome.
Normally, I close theseepisodes by asking for like a
piece of life advice, but Ithink you've given a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I may have just done that.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
So I think you did pretty good.
I think you've covered all thebases.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
I don't know how to realize I was going to get so
philosophical.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
It's good.
What do you have coming up?
Is there stuff you want to plug?
Tell us where to find you allthe different things.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yes, so coming up, as I mentioned, we have Garden
Guardians and we're going to dothose once a season-ish, so
you'll see announcements forthat on my socials.
So I am at GrowingTogetherTX onboth Facebook and Instagram.
I do have a TikTok, but it'snot active.
Anyway, bear with me, I'm old,so and then I have a website, so
(54:39):
I do have some updates and somegeneral information, like the
maps of school gardens there, soit's really helpful.
You can obviously findlbkgrowncom, and we not only
have subscriptions, like I said,that sell out really quickly as
soon as I post them, but wealso offer custom orders.
It's $40 minimum so you can goin and put together whatever
there is available.
(54:59):
So I highly recommend.
We had some great customersthat were doing custom orders
last year, and so it's a midweekpickup.
It's a great way to getvegetables in the middle of the
week, not just have to go to thefarmer's market.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
And if someone out there listening is a grower or
an interested grower who wantsto get plugged in through the
website, is there a better like?
Is there an intake form?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (55:18):
So you can reach out to me at growingfairtexas at
gmailcom, and there's also acontact information on
lbkgrowncom, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Very cool.
Well, thank you for coming totalk to me again.
Yeah, that was fun five yearslater.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
I know, thanks for having me.
We're not strangers, so.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
I'm not going to say, don't be a stranger.
Yeah, no, we're not.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
But yes, thank you for having me again.
I appreciate it.
I look forward.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Y'all.
If there's one thing you takeaway from this whole season of
Plantthropology, I really hopethat it's.
Community is important, thatbuilding community is, in my
opinion, the way forward and theway through.
So many things, so many things.
Thanks so much to Jessica forbeing on and for her wisdom and
her knowledge and just for herwork in community building and
in the food space.
Thanks again to you, thelistener.
(56:07):
You know that I do this for youand I'm so glad that you're on
this journey with me.
Thanks once more to the TexasTech Department of Plant and
Soil Science and the DavisCollege of Agricultural Science
and Natural Resources.
Plantthropology is hosted,produced, recorded, edited and
all the things by yours truly.
Our theme music is by theaward-winning composer, nick
(56:30):
Scout, and all the listening isdone by you.
Thanks for being a part of it.
Keep being kind to one another.
If you have not been kind toone another, find a community
and be kind to them.
Be safe, be good and keep beingreally cool plant people you.
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