Floods, Crashes, and Models Unscathed: Bruce McRae's Epic Journey

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
"The Voice of Bob" Bair (00:11):
Welcome to Plastic Model Mojo, a
podcast dedicated to scalemodeling, as well as the news
and events around the hobby.
Let's join Mike and KentuckyDave as they strive to be
informative, entertaining andhelp you keep your modeling mojo
alive.

Mike (00:45):
Mojovia.
Welcome to episode 145 ofPlastic Model.
Mojo Dave, how are you doing?

Kentucky Dave (00:58):
I'm doing okay.
Well, again, how can we bedoing bad if we're on the way to
the nationals?
And by the time people arelistening to this, we should be
on our way to the nationals.

Mike (01:06):
And it doesn't get better than that.
No, what's up in your modelsphere?

Well, the model sphere's been hectic and
scattered.
As I mentioned last time.
We've had some family stuffthat has taken a lot of time.
Then my wife had to travel,unfortunately, for a funeral for
a cousin.
Then her birthday was yesterdayand we had a nice party with

(01:35):
friends and neighbors andunfortunately you weren't able
to come, but I understand that,given you're moving two college
kids this weekend.
But I have been.
I mean, I've been gettingmodel-related stuff going.
I've been packing for theNationals, which I've got to
tell you and maybe we'll do thisas a shop talk or something.

(01:57):
Packing for the Nationals hasnow actually become a thing.
Used to be back when I washeaded to the Nationals the
night before I'd open up asuitcase, I'd throw some stuff
in there.

Mike (02:11):
There was socks and underwear.

Right socks, underwear and a couple of
convention t-shirts and I wasoff to the races.
It's actually become a thingthat, okay, I gotta remember
this, I gotta take this for thisguy, I've gotta yeah.

Mike (02:30):
I mean, it's really been become a thing so you know we
were probably gonna go out, atleast one.
We'll go out for dinnervirtually every night oh yeah,
um, but usually we end up,especially with the minnesota
twins.
Yeah, uh, we end up, uh,especially with the the
Minnesota twins.
Uh, we end up going probablyone place, it's, you know, nicer
than the others.

I won't say something that you don't wear.
Want to wear shorts and at-shirt?

Mike (02:55):
shorts in your uh Canada IPMS t-shirt.

Yeah, the sweating beaver t-shirt, yes,
which I am bringing again.
I mean, even if we have fewerCanadians at this year's
nationals, I'm still going to berepresenting IPMS Canada.

Mike (03:11):
You need to get the logo and print a new one.

Yeah, well, they actually reissued it.

Mike (03:16):
You can buy them now.
You can buy them again.
You need to retire that one.

But I've got an original that still fits me from
1986.
Have you seen that insurancecommercial where the guy tells
his daughter.
He bought all these clotheswhen he was in boot camp.

(03:43):
Yes, boot camp, that's it.
That's me, man.
Is that how that shirt'sfitting?
No, it actually still fitspretty well.

Mike (03:52):
All right, just kidding you, man.

Yeah, I know.
So what's your model spherebeen?

Mike (03:56):
like Same kind of thing Gathering our wares, all our
gear to have at the table.
Making sure we've got freshbatteries and everything.
Making sure the rechargeablestuff's recharged.
Make sure I have the rechargers, all the cables.

Oh, I've got to remember my microphone.

Mike (04:12):
All the mic stands, the microphone.
We really should just buyanother one so we don't have to
have that issue anymore.

Yeah, I know.
Well, I haven't screwed that upso far.

Mike (04:20):
No, you haven't.

So, but it'll happen some point.

Mike (04:25):
Well, you can pack it after the after tonight.
Yes, that's exactly what I'mgoing to do Take it down and
pack it up.
Yep, yeah, I'm just getting allthat stuff together.
Make sure the swag we've got onhand is packed, just stuff like
that.
And another thing I've beenworking on is at some point
between we were, we did a videogoing through st louis.

(04:47):
So it's when we're going toomaha sometimes.
Since that national convention,facebook changed something that
you cannot facebook live inlandscape format and we haven't
been able to do it because youput the phone on the stand in
the car and if it it's inportrait format it's not wide
enough to see both Right.

(05:08):
I found a hack for that.
Oh good, I've got an app thatruns above all the other apps on
the phone and forces everythingyou turn that sucker on and
landscape is the only thingit'll do.

Yeah.

Mike (05:22):
And I've tested it.
It looks like it's going towork.
It's the only thing it'll do.
Yeah, and I've tested it.
It looks like it's going towork.
Folks, you may see a short testvideo early this week tomorrow
or Monday me driving around townor something, giving this thing
a test drive to make sure itworks.
But if it does keep your phoneclose during your travel
journeys, you might see Mike andKentucky Dave in the front seat
of the car.

I'm looking forward to that.
I'm looking forward to that.
I have actually commiseratedwith several listeners on
Facebook about different thingsFacebook has been doing that
they do without notice andseemingly for no sensible reason
.
And then you've got to likethat AI chat bot.

Mike (06:01):
It's all sensible for them .

Yeah, well, exactly.
Or well, the thing in the dojowhere every once in a while
it'll mark a member's post, apotential spam, and it's like
there's no rhyme or reason forthis.
Why are you doing this?
So there's a fix we go in andwe whitelist people so that that
doesn't happen.
But it's a pain in the butt.

(06:25):
Come on, Facebook, get ittogether.

Mike (06:28):
Well, hopefully we'll be able to do this again, because I
always enjoyed those.

Those were fun.

Mike (06:33):
It's fun.
So that's my model spheretrying to get everything ready
to go.
Man, trying to get ready tohave you roll up sometime before
6 am.

Oh, I'm going to be there.

Mike (06:44):
Wednesday morning, because it's ass and seat at 6 am baby.

Yeah, that's right.

Mike (06:48):
And we're rolling out.

Well, Mike, since we're recording, I'm assuming
you've got a modeling fluid.

Mike (06:55):
I do Dave.

What do you have?

Mike (06:57):
It's Russell's Reserve, 10-year, but unfortunately it's
a bottle I thought I was buyingto take to Nationals.
It hasn.
It's a bottle I thought I wasbuying to take to nationals, so
it hasn't survived the weekend.
Oh no, so I'll bring what'sleft.
I was going to go get somethingelse anyway, yeah.
Yeah, I just was winding downlast night.
Like you mentioned earlier, mywife and I have moved my two

(07:21):
sons to their respective newaccommodations here in town for
the start of the next collegeyear, and man, I'm beat like a
dirty rug.

You're not as young as you used to be.
That furniture moving in your20s was a whole lot easier
wasn't it?

Mike (07:36):
Well, yeah, it was Well.
Part of that was because IBMand Lexmark paid a local mover
to move me all the time.
Nice that was kind of nice.
Because IBM and Lexmart paid alocal mover to move me all the
time.
Nice, that was kind of nice,but yeah, I tapped into this and
, I don't know, by the end ofthe weekend it's going to be
down quite a bit.
I'm going to have to getanother one of these, and one
more, to have with us on thetrip.

Yeah, we'll probably have some modeling
fluid while we're in Hampton.

Mike (08:00):
What about you?
What do you got?

Well, I have Texas's favorite soft drink, Dr
Pepper.
There's a reason for this.

Mike (08:11):
Are you constipated?
What?
No, yeah, I swear that naturalingredient they have on there is
prune juice.
I swear it is.

Oh, if you heat it up it tastes like warm prune
juice.
But again, there's a reason forthis.
It has nothing to do with mycolon.
We got the Nats coming up, theMinnesota Twins are coming in,
we're going to see plenty of ourlisteners and so, kind of to
rest and recuperate prior to theNationals, I thought tonight,

(08:50):
instead of a modeling fluid, I'mgoing to have a soft drink.
Take it easy on Mr Liver, lethim kind of get ready so that
when we get to the Nationals wewill be able to enjoy whatever
modeling fluids are available atthe Nats.
So here's a Dr Pepper.

(09:10):
It is also the drink that youand I take on the road when we
travel.

Mike (09:16):
Yeah, it is.

That's one of the reasons I have it is because
we're going to have these.
I bought a bunch of them, sowe're going to have them for the
road.

Mike (09:24):
Enjoy it, Dave.

I will.

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Mike (09:52):
Well, dave, we had modeler Bruce McRae back for another
interview and some storytelling,just in time for folks' journey
to the IPMS National Convention.

This could not be a more relevant interview for
folks who are listening to thisepisode as you travel to the
Nationals.
It was a fun interview.
It was a great story, eventhough at the time, Bruce
probably wasn't enjoying itwhile things were happening to
him.
But it's a good story.
We got to talk to him not onlyabout his misadventures, but

(10:31):
also about the shows that heattended.
It was a really good time.

Mike (10:35):
Everyone out there who's had a TSA incident, a minor
accident on the way to a modelshow, had to have something
canceled because of weather orwhatever this Bud's for you show
had to have something canceledbecause of weather or whatever
this Bud's for you.
Well, dave, it's been a minutesince we've had tonight's guest
on.
I was looking back.

(10:58):
It's been a year and a monthsince we've had our favorite
professional modeler retired, mrBruce McRae on the show.
Bruce, how are you doing?

Bruce MacRae (11:02):
I'm doing fine, just nice.
It's always hoops we get tojump through to make this thing
connect.

Mike (11:07):
You know well, our good friend John Miller, dr
Strangebrush, has similarproblems, and so we keep this
backup plan B up our sleeve forsuch events, because sometimes
it's just easier to cut to theother one, the other option and
hopefully it works out.
And it and it worked out again.

(11:28):
It was easy, anybody could doit.
Well, bruce, we had a, had Johnbefore and we talked a lot
about your career and your, yourstart in the hobby, and then
last year well, that's how wemet you.
Actually, you were on your, oneof your whirlwind model show
tours.

Yeah, yeah.

Mike (11:41):
That's all great and grand , and you've done it again this
year, yes, and this year we'rejust going to leave with that
and we'll talk about some otherstuff later.
But I tell you what, man, whenyou sent me that email, I'm not
sure Merle Haggard could havewritten a better song.
You talk about reading like acountry song.

All you needed was a steel guitar.

Mike (12:11):
And a dog.
Yeah, dog and a dog.
Oh, add dogs.
There's dogs in the snow.
That's right, two golden.
Good man, we've got a golden.

Oh got that, we got that in common.

Mike (12:16):
you're of the body, then we are.
Well, listen, you know, daveand I've both had model show
mishaps.
I've had stuff broken intransit.
Dave was involved in a minorcar accident once and some stuff
got damaged.
We've got a host of friends inour podcast friend circle.
We've all had TSA issuestraveling to international shows

(12:39):
via even domestic shows viaaircraft.
But I tell you, I've neverheard anything quite like the
story you emailed me about, andthe fact that you even finished
the mission was pretty amazing.
So for the folks who are we'regoing to drop this, like right
before everybody startstraveling to the IPMS, yeah, I

(13:01):
was good.
So this is going to be some goodentertainment, hopefully for
those folks who folks trying tofigure out what they're going to
do for the next seven hours.

Yes, this is also not a challenge for somebody to
up me.
Let's this one be the worst,okay.

Mike (13:20):
I hope it's all downhill for you, but let's start with
what the initial plan was, andthen you just go.

Well, like the initial plan kind of like combat
initial plan goes to hell assoon as you meet the enemy.

Mike (13:31):
Yes.

And kind of what happened here.
We had a nine-week trip planned.
We were going to hit four modelshows, let's see.
One was in Pennsylvania, that'dbe the Amps Nationals, Florida.
There was a dual Amps and afigure show, and one in Texas,
model Mania, and the last onewas in Ohio.

(13:53):
So the plot was we'll hit thoseshows, we finish in Ohio, which
is about four weeks, and thenwe will go to the East Coast and
see some of the museums andbattlefields, like New York and
down to Tennessee.
And I even wanted to stop andsee the what's the museum, the

(14:14):
Smithsonian that has theaircraft.

Udvar-Hazy.

Yes, I wanted to see that again because they
finished building the Heinkel219.
Yes, I've always loved thatmodel.

I got to loved that model.
I got to see that as it wasbeing restored.

Me too.
Yeah, about 17,.
I saw that, and now it's allthere.
Also, I wanted to visit mymodel displays that are in the
Smithsonian and the AerospaceMuseum again.
Never hurts to look at those.

Yeah.

Mike (14:43):
Make sure they're taken care of.

Yeah, yeah, they're taken care of.
Yeah, yeah, they're kind ofhigh up, you can't really touch
them.
So that was the plan.
Okay, nine days into the trip.
Now, where did you start from?
Oh, from Las Vegas.
In what, and with who?
With the wife, my two goldenretrievers, the Baron and

(15:05):
Nimrodel, and we have a SUVthat's big enough for all of us.
In the back seat, in three tubs, are my models very carefully
packed I'm really a master atpacking for shows.
Now, and then we had ourtrailer, which is we will use
campsites, sure and camp and dothat Gotcha.

(15:26):
So, leaving from Vegas, heading, I think, around the 10 for the
most of it no, I'm sorry, the40.
And we get into Louisiana.
We parked the camper at acampsite and we unhitched, and
then the next day we went intotown and kind of looked around.

(15:47):
There was a really cool airmuseum there, kind of one of
those little private ones.
So, it had all kinds ofinteresting stuff stuffed into
corners and kind of one of thosedusty ones.

I have to interrupt and ask you For
campers, just a classic fifthwheel or no, no, it's sort of
one step down.

It's got one axle, two wheels and the front and
back fold out for your, forthese, for the, for the beds.

Oh, okay, Kind of like a teardrop or a one of
those mini campers.

Yeah yeah, it's big enough you can stand and
walk around.
It's a little tight, especiallywith two Goldens, and one side
the front side opens down andmakes beds and that's for the
kids and the other side is forus and there's a little dining
room table which I can set up acomputer and we can read and
chat and eat Gotcha.

(16:44):
So we anyway.
The thing is that this was aWednesday and it was raining on
and off all day and at one pointreally really hard, hard enough
where you pull over because youcan't see a thing.
In fact, when I was coming backto the car from lunch, I
started to get into the wrongcar.

(17:05):
Our vehicle's white.
There are no other whitevehicles, right yeah.
And it was starting to rainhard and I went to the first
white car and opened the door.
I'm so glad there's nobody init, but I'm like this isn't my
oh crap.
Close the door.
Oh, there's my car.

(17:25):
I ran over there Meanwhile.
I'm becoming soaked.
So anyway, we get back.
We stopped at a hobby shop.
That was kind of fun and we gotback a little later than we
intended, and of course I liketo hook up the trailer when we
get back and drive out firstthing in the morning.
Well, it was getting dark andwe were both tired, so I said

(17:46):
we'll just do it in the morning.
That was the first mistake.
It rained hard all night,thunder, lightning to points
where the vehicle shook andwakes you up.
I didn't get a lot of sleep,5.30 in the morning, finally
asleep.
My wife wakes me up and saysBruce, get dressed now.
And there was an urgency in hervoice.
Okay, up I come.

(18:08):
What's going on?
Look out the window.
It is pitch black out there,except for just a few lights on
some of the buildings in thedistance, and it was reflecting
water.
What the hell?
There's water out.
Wait a minute.
There was no water.
We're in a lake, holy mackerel.
I can see what the land risesout in the distance.

(18:28):
And so I said, okay, yeah, let'sget dressed.
We gotta figure out what'sgoing on here.
And when she noticed the waterhad just come up to the folded
down steps, by the time I got mypants and shoes on, I noticed
there's water on the floor andshoes on, I noticed there's
water on the floor by the time Igot my shoes tied.
The mats on the floor arefloating.

(18:49):
We got about two inches ofwater now and we were like, okay
, we have a problem.
So we got our leashes on ourkids and our harnesses, we
grabbed our backpacks, we movedanything low up high and at that
point the water is now ankledeep in the trailer within
really a couple minutes.

(19:09):
And so I was like, yeah, Iguess I better get out of here,
because you know who knows howdeep this is going to get or if
the trailer might roll overright or float away and, like a
jelly sandwich, it always landsface down right Pretty much.
Like the door.
Yeah, so we open the door andwater flowed in.

(19:31):
Now it's about shin deep and Igoes.
Well, I hate soggy, wet shoes,but well, we're already there,
so what the hell?
So the kids jumped out.
Oh boy, we can swim.
It's a swimming pool.

Hey, Goldens right, they thought it was an
adventure.

This is fun, yeah, hey, great, let's do this every
day.
So wife steps out and she'swaist deep.
I step out it's about highthigh on me and of course it's
still raining.
So we sort of carefully plodour way towards the higher
ground, which is about 100 yardsaway, and we get to the shore

(20:11):
and your head's just swimmingwith.
What the hell Will my car work?
What's going on?
Are my models safe?
And we get to the high ground,which is, of course, where the
ranger cabin was on the highground.
Hmm, smart man.
Anyway, it's now 6 am, it'sstill dark and I'm looking at my
vehicle in a swimming—it's likea swimming pool.

(20:34):
The fortunate thing is thewater didn't rush in like a
tidal wave which would haveprobably moved the trailer or
even knocked it over.
It just filled it up like abathtub.
And as I looked at it, thewater was already up to the,
just starting to go over thehubcaps of the car.

(20:55):
And as time went on to the nexthour, the tires of the car were
totally covered.
And yeah, that was a special dayand the horse was sopping wet.
Dogs don't seem to care, andyou know.
So.
Now it's about 10 o'clock, therain stops and it appears the

(21:15):
water is receding slowly.
And anyway, what happened wasMarzen has contacts from the SCA
in Florida and contacted afriend named Carrie, and she
contacted other people and weeventually found somebody where
we were staying in Louisiana orswimming and they managed to

(21:41):
come, get us and the dogs andtake us back to their place so
at least we could dry off.
And about 4 o'clock they droveus back over there where the
water had recessed to about 12inches deep and we were saying
can we move our car?
And the car was stone cold dead.

Mike (22:01):
I imagine the water that high.

Not even that.
You know, no, nothing.
One of those electric cars Imean not an electric car, but
there's too many electronics inour cars, now, right, and so we
folded up the trailer and wemoved stuff out, starting with
my models which were not in thewater.
The water did enter the car,but up to just below the seats,

(22:28):
and my models were in tubs ontop of the back seat, so they
were dry.
The also funny, fun part wasyou've probably heard of Mike
McFadden.

Mike (22:39):
Yep.

And Mike had said Bruce, could you take for me my
beautiful scratch-built Germanflagship to Texas, where I will
meet you, and then I don't haveto worry about transporting it
there.
And I says I can do that.
Yeah, it was in the car.
I was like, oh great.

I know that model .

Yes, yes, I says well, at least it's a ship.
You know, I probably could havepushed out and pushed it across
the lake.
No, no, no, no, no, I didn't dothat.
So anyway, all the models werefine, we pulled them out and
that's just sort of cut thestory.
At the end of this, about 10o'clock at night, a tow truck

(23:20):
showed up with our car.
They towed it out and thetrailer showed up with our car.
They towed it out and thetrailer, the car.
Now we deal with the insuranceand I have a show in two days in
Florida.
My wife manages, with thesesame friends, to get me and my
models to the show, spend thenight there and then shuttle me

(23:42):
back while Marsden worked outthe insurance.
I did very well at the show,yay.

Mike (23:49):
That would be no doubt.
Mike McFadden probably thoughthe was playing it safe sitting
with you.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, because you know PSA, you know
they love to trash your models.
Right, you don't have to worryabout it.
Yeah, so, by the way, I didn'ttell him what had happened
because I know he would worry,though I know his model was fine
, and so, once we were ablesorry, they totaled the car,

(24:14):
they totaled the trailer.

Mike (24:16):
I'm sure.

It took.
It was an enormous amount ofeffort to get them to rent us a
car big enough for us, the dogs,the models and whatever we
could salvage out of our trailer.
We did eventually get one andpacked it to the gills.
I mean you couldn't have gottena shoehorn in there, but it was

(24:38):
enough room for everything, andwe were able then to drive to
Texas at the model mania show.

At this point you didn't just call it a day and
go back home.
You decided we're going topersevere.

Well, yeah, and really what happened was we went
, what do we do?
And I said, look, we're alreadyhere, you know, and we're on
the right side of the country tohit the shows.
And I hate to go home going.
Well, see dead car, deadtrailer, no show.
Yeah, no.
I said well, let's see dead car, dead trailer, no show, yeah,

(25:15):
no.
I said well, let's do the shows.
And then we saw the $3,000rental for the car.
That pretty much eliminates thesecond half of our trip.
So if we do the show, theamount we would have spent on
the second half of the tripwould be equal to basically what
the rental was.
So it'll still cost about thesame.
By the way, I had a friend tellme it might have been Mike and

(25:36):
he says that shit, mcrae, youended up a flood, fire, car
crashes, I'll get to that next.
And you still go to the show.
Nothing can stop you.
He says that's about right.
So I met Mike.
We had a great day the daybefore, going to hobby shops and
his bottle was safe and I gavehim the whole story.

(25:58):
He blanched and turned pale,but he saw his bottle was OK.
I was afraid to open it, Ididn't want to look inside and
we had a great time at the show.
I'll tell you about the Manialater.
That's a very interesting show,and so we did our shows.
I did the Nationals.
I was disappointed you guysweren't there, so were we?

(26:18):
Yeah, yeah, where are these?
Oh damn, what is it?

Amps is a great show.
The Amps Nationals is justwonderful.
It was a wonderful show,Absolutely.

I've got stuff about that for you later.
So anyway, we did the shows.
I did Ohio.
Ohio was magnificent, Funnystuff there.
And we're on our way home andwe're taking pretty much a
direct route out.
Now you both have grown up withBugs Bunny and you remember his
famous quote I should haveturned left at Albuquerque.

(26:51):
Bugs was right, we should haveturned left at Albuquerque.
We had stopped in the morningat Albuquerque at the Costco to
get gas.
We got a hot dog lunch.
We came out.
We were at the red light.
We went into the light.
Go green, Goes green.
We make a right-hand turn.

(27:11):
As we get just into our turnsmash.
A car crashes into us, Plasticflying everywhere.
It was a van.
He ran the red light.
I thought they only did that inVegas.

Mike (27:26):
Apparently not.
They do it in Kentucky too.

Yeah, I guess the guys who do it in kentucky are
usually uninsured and theirlicenses have been suspended oh
good, I'll remember that.

So it turns out the guy hits us and he he hit
the, the front driver quarterfrom like the front wheel up and
destroyed it.
It was just pieces all over theplace and the vehicle could not
move.
I'm like, great, this is nice.
Now what?
His car, his van, had a nicedent in it.

(28:01):
I wish it was bigger, but hiscar was drivable.
And I heard him talking to hisboss saying oh, these people hit
my car.
How did we hit your car whenyou came from behind us?
How does that work out?
Anyway, what was fun with thatis we had to deal with getting a

(28:24):
hold of the rental company andthen the cars total.
So we got to get a vehicle totake it away.
We have to empty the vehicle.
I remember with everything wehad in there.

Mike (28:36):
Probably, at this point, more than you've left with.

Oh yes, there was like 500, I'm sorry, five carts
I filled from the parking lotjust to get our stuff out, plus
our dogs, plus my models, plusme, and then Marzen took Uber to
go to find us another vehicle.
Five hours later she showed up.
You know, by the way, that timeof year sitting in Costco

(29:02):
parking lot it's very hot andthere's not much shade, so that
was special.
Anyway, we get the car back andwe get another car, get
everything in it and the nextmorning we have four hours at
the police station to file theirpolice report and then we can
go home.
I just couldn't wait to gethome before somebody hits this
car.
So that was that.

(29:26):
I hope nobody can beat thatstory.
That was a pretty lousy trip.
That was not good hope nobodycan beat that story.

That was a pretty lousy trip.
That was not good.

Mike (29:31):
Well, I tell you that's not the only thing hard to beat.
I tell you something elsethat's hard to beat is the
patience and perseverance ofyour wife.

Yes, you are clearly married to an angel.

Clearly.
Yes, I don't know how I couldhave dealt with it, but I'm just
sort of the artist guy in thefamily, but she's the tough one
and she got us together onlinehere.
I couldn't have done that.
Yeah, well, throw that in too,but you know, there was ample

(30:08):
opportunities for a.
We're going home, bruce.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yes,definitely.

Definitely.
Hey, Mike, when you go to rentthe car for the Nats, look for a
picture.
Do not rent to this man Apicture of Bruce.
I bet you that's in everyrental car counter in the
country.

Well, you know it was funny is that when we were
dealing with the next car fromthe same company, they were
trying to tell us oh, you didn'twant the collision insurance,
baloney.
We didn't.
Of course we did.
They were playing someinteresting.
Then they said oh, you rented aLincoln.
No, we didn't, we had a USV.
I mean, it's totally different.
They even had the serial numberof the license plates wrong.

(30:54):
What are you guys doing?
Luckily, I had a photo of ourlicense plates.
No, no, this is the car we had.
You rented it to us, so it wasjust fun, fun, fun.

Well, the last car Mike rented didn't have a
license plate.
Yeah, we got one without it.

Mike (31:13):
Well, no, we got one with the temporary plate, yes, and by
the time we got to San Marco,texas, it had blown off.

Yeah, that happened to us too.
Yeah, oh, by the way, thatvehicle was seven months old,
yeah.

Mike (31:28):
Didn't live very long, did it.

No, it didn't.
No, it didn't, it certainly didwell, oh, by the way, no model
was damaged.

That's amazing, that's great, that is amazing,
it was amazing.

Mike (31:41):
Most of those don't survive too many car crashes.

I was going to say you need to do a seminar on
how to pack your models fortransport.
I could do that.
If on how to pack your modelsfor transport, I could do that.
If you manage to survive both aflood and an auto accident, you
know what you're doing.

Well, you know, the funny part is with the flood
is I had them in those clearplastic bins.
They're kind of large and I canput like two Xerox boxes inside
and if the water had come up itwould have had to come up, like
well, over the top of thewindow because you know they

(32:17):
were closed, sealed, and ifanything they would have been
floating inside.
So they were pretty good.
The only thing I did do is toget extra room.
I bungeed two Xerox boxes tothe top of the bins.
Now, those would have gottenwet.

You didn't have any hassle with your insurance
company getting your claims paid.

No, no, we didn't, In fact, just to cut back.
We also got pretty much all ofour money from the campsites we
couldn't go to.
We got refunded and there wasone that told us that well,
we're going to have to cancelthe campsite because we've been
flooded.
That would have been bad.

(33:05):
Yeah, I imagine, but it was adifferent campsite and it was
like weeks later.

Mike (33:11):
Well, glad to hear you survived all that.

Yeah, I take it nobody was injured in the
accident.

No, no, that's right, because we weren't hit
that hard.
But gee, cars are made ofplastic, so there's just crap
flies everywhere.

Yeah.

I was glad he didn't hit us directly from
behind, because the dogs wereback there.
Yeah, I was glad he didn't hitus directly from behind because
the dogs were back there, yeah.
And he might not have survivedme if he had hurt my dogs.

Mike (33:36):
I can certainly appreciate that.

I'm sure they just thought it was a grand
adventure, oh yeah.

Yeah, they didn't think the parking lot got boring
after an hour.

Mike (33:45):
Yeah, Well, let's talk about some of these shows.

Definitely.
Let me talk first about theTexas show, Model Mania.
It was a nice big show.
It was just south of Houston.

Okay.

Yeah, now, I can't think of the name of the town
Houston, but it was just southof Houston.
Yeah, now I can't think of thename of the town Houston, but it
was just south of Houston.
Yeah, okay, and some sub-suburb.
It was a nice built, nice bigplace.
It was like a convention hall.
There was tons of parking, thetable, the room between the
tables was nice and they had Icounted about 500 models there.

Nice.

And they said, at the time when I asked them, they
had about 190 people enteringand there were still more coming
in.
This is an IPMS show and whatthey did was they did an open
system.

Mike (34:47):
Yeah, that's getting more popular.

Yes, it is.
And so Mike and I, since wewere together, we judged
together, we did armor, we didabout half of the armor.
The other side of the table wasanother team and what they did
is they gave you a score sheetthat was with each end entry,
and we would fill those out andthey would stay with the entry.

(35:11):
So the entrant would come backand could see oh, I got this
score and these are the notesthat they liked and these are
the notes that I need to improveon.
And it was kind of cool and aperfect score would be a 21.
And what made it really nicewas when you're dealing with

(35:33):
best of category, best ship,best tank, best plane, you just
start looking at the highestscores.
So we say, are there any 21shere?
No, any 20s, I have three ofthem.
Okay, which one?
Now we judge?
Those Makes it easy, and ifthere's only one with the
highest score, like a 21, bingo,it's real easy, right, I mean.

(35:57):
So it takes really no time atall so what's was this?

your first time at this show?
Oh yeah oh yes.

Yes, not my first time at texas, but first time at
that show now was the firsttime they'd run this judging
format.
I think it is the only thingthat they did, something that
was kind of neat and then theykind of screwed up on it.
They said that we will give youtwo bonus points.
So 20 is a perfect score.

(36:25):
But a bonus point would be, ifit's like you went way over the
top, the wow factor.
You know he scratch built thiswhole thing out of a potato peel
and it looks amazing.
That would be wow factor, okay.
The other was documentation.
They say we want we will giveyou a point for documentation

(36:48):
and they just want to see thatyou did some research on your
model.
And so Mike and I we did docson all of our stuff and in fact
he forgot his stuff so he had totype them out fresh.

Apparently, from what we understand from our
Australian friends, that's verycommon in Australia.
Oh, is it?

Okay, yes, I know Amstead is here.

Mike (37:19):
Yes, they do.
It's like a half point orsomething for that.
It's a half point, yeah.

So here's the part that they blew is that, as I
was in the judging meeting withMike, they're explaining how
we're going to do things andhere's the sheet.
And I looked at the sheet goingoh, I see a checkbox for did
you get the wow factor point,but there's no checkbox for the
documentations.
What are you guys going to doabout that?

(37:45):
Oh well, just write docs andput a point if it gets it.
So it wasn't a negative if youdon't get it.
It would be a bonus if you do.
Well, it wasn't on it and wenoticed that nobody put a doc
point for anything.
So I have people doing it andnobody got credit for it.

(38:06):
Ah, sigh.

Mike (38:09):
Well, I'm sure they'll amend that the next time.

Yeah, it just matters putting a little box
there, you know.

Mike (38:16):
It's amazing what slips through the cracks.
I'm sure to someone's chagrin,the big challenge coin they had
made for the Madison NationalConvention last year had Madison
spelled wrong on it.

Yes, did it really ?
Yeah, that's good, that's rich,that's rich, I like that, I
like that.
So let's see.
Oh, by the way, the show.
They put out coins first,second, third place gold, silver
, bronze for the models and theyput them out.
They had a guy just droppingthem out as he would go through

(38:50):
before the award ceremony.

Mike (38:52):
Okay.

So basically, people got a chance to see what
won.

Mike (38:56):
Okay.

Or how did I do, what beat me, or you know
whatever.
And that was nice because youcould actually see it.
They saved the best of awardsfor the ceremony, which took a
whole half an hour.

That shortens the awards ceremony up
significantly.
Oh, big time yeah.

And I think this is better because people get to
actually see rather than sayingwell, the Mustang took first
place, which won, which won?

Yeah.

You know, and Bob Bozo took first place.
Who's that?
I don't know.
You don't have a chance.
By the way, the diorama tablewas kind of nice.
It was very long, it wenthalfway down the hall and they
were able to put the dioramasinstead of shoehorning them in
against the wall.
They were on the tables, youcould be on either side to view

(39:46):
them and they were all in asingle file all the way down the
length of the table.
So it was really easy to look atthem.
Yeah, it was a bitch if becausethe tables are so long that if
you want to see it on the otherside and you're in the middle
either direction get a long walkto get around the other side.
Oh well, you know.

Mike (40:06):
But well, at least you could get to it instead of being
against the wall.
Yeah.

Against the wall, you can't see the back.
Something that I've been doingnow is many of my pieces I will
put on a Lazy Susan.
Okay, and I put a little signthat says rotate please, and it
gives people permission torotate and it's nice seeing them
do it, especially judges going.
Well, I don't have to pick yourmodel up, I can rotate this and

(40:30):
look at it.

Mike (40:31):
That's an interesting idea .

Yeah, I think that might become popular.

It might.
I've seen that done before and,yeah, that makes great sense,
oh it does Well since we've beendoing the show spotlights to
help promote these shows beforethey actually happen.

Mike (40:47):
especially in the last year or so, there's been several
going to this format and itseems to be pretty well received
.
What did you think, just at ahigh level?
Did you think of this?

I found that personal.
I think that the open system iswonderful because it supports
the model maker.
It helps him, which isn't thatwhy we're having shows.
It kind of helps people learnand grow and improve their
skills.
Well, with our typical one, two, three system, is that if

(41:21):
there's, you know, 20 models inthe category and there's one,
two, three, well, were youfourth place or 20th?

Mike (41:28):
Right.

And and why didn't you place?
Well, they found something theydidn't like about your piece
and for the most part you'llnever know.
So you have no way the modelmaker of learning and improving
what we were doing, as we'vedone with the amps too I've now
judged at both at the last twonationals and a separate amps
show now and you look over themodel and the whole construction

(41:55):
, finish and all, and you say,oh, the left wheel is slightly
askew and what you'll write downis left wheel third, back,
slightly askew.
Knock you half a point.
Okay, now the guy can go backand say, oh, he's right, look at
that.
Well, I need to do better.

(42:15):
Or there's a little, you know,shiny glue bit showing, and this
way the modeler can learn whathe did right.
But, just as important, he canlook at the sheet and cause, at
least at AM and Mike and I didit in the Mania show you write
down something positive.
So the guy knows hey, we loveyour weathering.

(42:37):
Oh, okay, good, I did somethingright.
This helps the modeler.

Did you judge at the AMP show as well?
Yes, I did.
I was going to ask you tocompare the Model mania judging
experience to the amps, becausethey're both open systems right.

But not all systems are equal, as this right
other than the paperwork or thenumber break can be different.
And for amps they have theirstyle right and this one.
They had a one to twenty pointsand it broke down in
construction and finishing,weathering and some other stuff.

(43:18):
I did save some of those sheetsand the the.
The difference is that at ampsyou have a two-hour shift and
you get to sit down in a chairwith a light and the models on a
Lazy Susan.
It doesn't get better than this.

Right, it's not judged on the table.
It's judged back in the judgingroom.

And of course here we were.
You know standing A-lanesquatting.
By the way, don't tell anybody,but I've often stole a folding
chair and I drag it with me so Ican sit in it and look at the
model at eye level, and then Idrag it down to the next model.
Don't tell anybody that.

Mike (44:00):
Fair enough, fair enough.
What was the next stop in themodel show adventure?
The next stop?

let's see.
Oh well, let me.
Actually.
The first stop was Florida.
Okay, we skipped one.
We say, yeah, I took a straightstraight to Texas, Florida.
I was there on my own, I didn'tknow anybody when in Florida.
Where in Florida?
It was just above Pensacola, soin a place called Milton.

Milton, yeah, I grew up in Pensacola in the
summer.

There you go.

My sister's a University of West Florida grad.
Ah, I know where Milton is.

I was there last fall and finally got to see that
naval museum there.

Ah the best aviation museum I've ever been
to it is?

It certainly is.

Mike (44:50):
Now I'm looking here.
They call this the Blue AngelModel Fest.
Does that ring a bell?

No, this show was interesting.
This was an Amps show.

Mike (44:58):
Oh, an Amps show Okay.

Yeah, it was called Armageddon.

Mike (45:03):
I was wondering if it won when we had featured before, but
no.

I don't think so.
What they did it was a whenCOVID hit the Amps, people, you
know, had to stop.
And there was a second groupthere that was a model figure
group and they were called thePanhandle Miniature Figure
Society.
Their shows were small.

(45:26):
When they were able to comeback, because COVID was canceled
, finally they went hey, boththeir shows are small.
Why don't we combine our showsin the same venue?
Maybe we'll draw more people?
Okay, sounds good.
So they did so.
Literally there were twodifferent contests in the same
venue that day.

(45:47):
Interesting, so there was aminiature side and there was the
amp side.

And though it was thin, I think there were less
than 100 pieces.

Interesting.
It helped.
Having judged at AMS the yearbefore at the Nationals, I had
kind of a clue.
But it is interesting that eachset of four guys kind of has
their own flavor of what theyjudge and how.
For difficulty, how difficultwas the build?
So you could give a guy a wholepoint if this was like.
You know, this was a toughmodel to make rather than a
model that had three parts.
That one's probably pretty easy.
So he's probably not going toget it.

(46:42):
And our table captain, he toldus that just give everybody a
point, the full one point forthe difficulty of construction,
because you know, guys still hadto build the model and paint it
and decal it and all that.
So there's been some talk aboutchanging that point or altering

(47:05):
it in some way.
Maybe make it a bonus pointrather than if you don't get it
you've lost 10 of your scoreright there.
So yeah, so anyway, we wentthrough the models and it was a
small show, small vendors, butit was kind of nice because it
was kind of cozy and tight.
You know, you really got tochat with people and point and

(47:28):
poke and look at stuff, and itwas the first time in my life,
I've ever taken a Best of Showand two People's Choice Awards.

Mike (47:40):
Well, that's cool.
Congratulations.

How can you take two People's Choice?
Because there were twodifferent shows and I'm like,
okay, I see yeah.

Okay, pensacola is heaven on earth, so yeah,
anytime you have an excuse tovisit there and get in a model
show, that's fantastic.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
By the way, I'm not real keenabout Louisiana anymore.

Mike (48:08):
Yeah, stay upstate.
Yeah, stay upstate.
You know, stay upstate.

Yeah, stay upstate , you know, or at least just
don't stop, just keep goingacross the 10 to get out the
other side.

Hey, at least when the rain started the gators
didn't come.
That would have made it muchmore adventurous.

Well, you know, marzen told me much, much later,
like on the way home, says youknow we were fortunate there was
no wildlife in the water as wewere waiting to the high ground
yeah, it's true but I have tosay this I was so angry, so
pissed and so full adrenalinethat if, if, if some gator came
by to take a chop, I would, Iwould have ripped him in half.

Mike (48:49):
And a new pair of shoes.
You are so dead.

Do your jaws fold all the way back around the
other side.
Yeah yeah, they even didn'twant any part of me.
Our third show was the Amps.

Mike (49:03):
Nationals.
Well, hang on just a second,we'll get to that, but just a
quick comment.
So you went Louisiana toFlorida, texas yes To
Pennsylvania.

Yes.

Mike (49:15):
Okay.

And we end up in Ohio.

Mike (49:19):
Yeah, this isn't a circuit , folks.
This is.

Right, no, we tried.

Mike (49:22):
This is a tennis match.

It was a bit of a tennis match On the way.
We had like a week and a halffrom Texas to Pennsylvania it
doesn't take you that long todrive there so we had some
battlegrounds and museums and,of course, hobby shops.

Mike (49:41):
Oh sure, I mean.

I looked up several of those.

Mike (49:44):
With the days, with other things to fill up, it makes a
lot more sense.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, and a couple of train museums.

Mike (49:52):
Okay, which ones?

Oh, I knew you'd ask me that.
I'm sorry I can't remember now.

Mike (49:58):
Oh, that's fine, that's fine.
Well, tell us what we missed atAMPS.

Well, at AMPS.
I like getting there a dayearly to kind of spot everything
out and know where it is, so ifby some chance I had the wrong
information, I don't show upthat morning going oh it's not
here, what?
So I always come a day earlyand also it gives me a chance to

(50:24):
go through my stuff, make sureeverything is good, nothing's
broken.
I had one thing that did happen.
I have a diorama called Moo andit's a German, hanomag, and the
crew has bailed and they're upagainst the wall looking nervous
.
They're on a road with kind ofa hillside and there's a ruined

(50:46):
abbey above them and they hearsomething and they're all like
what the hell was that?
And they're all nervous andthere's where they can't see.
Up above them is a cow, youknow, and it's got a cord around
his neck that he chewed out, sohe's loose.
And you know hello.
And they heard a noise andthey're all scared to death.

(51:06):
A figure in the half track anofficer is pointing up in the
direction where the cow is,though he cannot see it.
Well, the figure, because ofthe 40, which is very bumpy, of
2,000 miles of bumpy road.
He was on a pin and he sort ofjiggled loose so he kind of
pivoted and one of his handsfell off.

(51:27):
Now it's not a problem.
When I got to the amps Iremembered that.
So I set the model up and Ipositioned.
The hand is on a pin so I putit back in and it can pivot so
it rests just right on theshoulder of the guy in front of
him.
It's kind of a tricky pose, butkeeping it loose allows it to
fit perfectly.

(51:48):
And he's pointing.
Well, what they do normally iswhen you enter your model at
amps and this is unique to ampsis that your model doesn't go
onto the display room, it goesinto a whole judging room, yep,
and the models are stacked up inqueue.
Once they're judged andphotographed, then they're taken
out to the floor and displayedRight.

(52:10):
Well, they told us, put thedioramas on the table, don't?
Don't, we're not going to stackthem up, because they're big
and we'll probably come out andjudge them there.
That makes sense.
Guess what they?
They carry that.
They carried all the dioramasin.
Well, they put them on a nicelittle cart and the cart rolls
and it's cushioned and itvibrates, but itates.

(52:34):
And what happened was they tookMu in and it vibrated, the man
out of position and, of course,the hand fell off.
And a judge came to me later,like the next day or so and are
you, bruce?
Yes, mu, this is your diary.
Yes, it is.
I need to say something to youabout this Now.

(52:58):
I noticed just an hour before Imet the guy, the figure was out
of position and the hand was off.
So I just put it all back andhe says well, your diorama is
magnificent, everything is great, the story direction,
construction is beautiful.
But it was getting knockedbecause this guy is pointing off

(53:18):
into another direction, likewhat is this, what is this about
?
And his hand wasn't there, likeand?
And he thought about going.
This kind of quality this modelmaker would never make this kind
of mistake.
I mean, it's impossible tothink about that.
Something's happened and Iexplained to him oh so what he

(53:40):
does.
He went back and he changed hisscore sheet where he had
knocked me a point for thefigure not lining up and he took
that off.
A couple of the judges didn't,but I still managed to get a
gold out of it.
The funny part was I read theircriticisms.
Two of them said well, theHanamag wheels were towed in and

(54:02):
so we took half a point off ofthat.
Well, the Hanamags are alltowed in.
That's how they are, and itkilled me to think these weren't
aircraft judges.
These are armored judges andthey didn't know that.

And that is the downside A of all judging.
Yes, but particularly in thattype of judging system you have,
if there's something unusual onyour model, you have to spell
it out for them.
Yeah, you have to spell it outfor them.
Yeah, you know, you get threeguys who build modern armor and

(54:40):
have never seen a Hanamag intheir life.

I think I had those three guys.

Yeah, I mean that happens at all, shows, no
matter the system, just becauseyou're dealing with human beings
, they can't know everything.

Well, one of the judge sessions that I did there
I did three sessions and we wereall looking at a modern tank I
don't remember what it was andone had a comment like well, I
don't think this one had thethingamajiggy there and he says
does anybody know about this?
I don't know anything about it.
And so we all realized none ofus really know.

(55:21):
Therefore, give the modeler theshadow of a doubt because he
built it.
He probably knows more than wedo.
So we would tend to lean thatway and I thought that's a good
way to go.

Mike (55:33):
Well, generally it was a show, well attended and vendors
were hopping and all that.
We missed the whole thing,unfortunately.

Yes, Vendors were very good.
Of course, Squadron was therewith a huge display.
I'm sure, oh, Squadron didsomething else that was neat.
They were passing out theselittle pins with their logo
saying something like great joband they were placing them with
some of the models.
I got two of them, Sorry, three.
Moo got one.

(56:02):
Oh, somebody else fun, thathappened there Steve Mussel of
Value Gear.
He had a display and when Icame in I brought my nine-scale
motorcycle sidecar and the dog.
By the way, I brought mynine-scale motorcycle sidecar
and the dog.
By the way, I've called the dogSchnapps, so I tend to call the
whole thing Schnapps now.

Mike (56:23):
Okay, that was the one that was on IPMS Journal cover
right.
Yes, that was on the cover, thefell gendarme.

Now, I hadn't seen this yet because I was on the
road.

Mike (56:33):
Okay.

And Bob Lomazaro had told me that you know this
is coming out.
I was hoping it would show upin the mail before I left town
but it did not.
So when I get to the show, mikesorry, yeah, he gives me kind
of a funny look and says comehere, bruce.
I says what is it?
And he holds up the IFMS issuewith my model on the cover and

(56:58):
he holds up the ifms issue withwith my model on the cover.
Oh, there it is.
Yeah, it's like, can I borrowthat?
Yeah, sure, here.
So I went on corner read itlike it was an excellent article
.
They got bob, got everythingright on it and and mike said,
hey, why don't you put it downnext to your model on the table,
you know?
And so I did and that was kindof.
So it was kind of fun to seethe article, see the photos.

Mike (57:17):
They all came out great, I was very, very impressed.
It's an impressive piecebecause it's so large there was
a dealer there.

I did not buy any tank models.
I know that's a sin, but I didsee, thinking I wasn't going to
buy any kits.
And then there was a guy thathad figure kits like DML and
Tamiya and stuff and he wasblowing them out for $2 each and

(57:48):
so if you buy six they're $2each.
I went I can use this one andthis one, and actually I found
six that I can use, so I pulledthose out.
The show was.
I think they said they had allover 600 entries, so I think
this might have been more thanlast year's.

Mike (58:07):
Okay, yeah, I don't remember what last year's was,
but it was.
It was in that area.
It was a nice number of entries.
So glad to hear that it was inthat area.
It was a nice number of entries.
So glad to hear that.

It was.
The show ran smooth and on time.
I did manage to go to a coupleof the seminars.
I did one with Rob Rives fromModel Insanity.

Mike (58:30):
Yeah.

He did one on PhotoEdge Yep, how to solder it,
and I learned so much from him.
It was a great bit.
And he had a display, marvelousdisplay, of a dozen of his
pieces, all armor, tons of photoetch, no paint, so you could

(58:51):
see the work.
I was so impressed with that.

Mike (58:56):
He's phenomenal with the photo edits.
He's renowned for it.
I hate I missed that.
Maybe he'll do it again at afuture show.

He could be talked into that.
I learned a lot.
Some of my fears of it wentaway.
That's good.
I took one also with the guythat was showing you how to use
the extruded foam to make wallsand bases.

Mike (59:16):
Okay.

And I took the class and I did what he showed
me and I realized I much preferthe foams that I use, the rigid
foam and the balsa foamespecially.
Okay, his stuff was too muchwork.

Mike (59:32):
Foams you're using are made to do what you're doing to
them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah and I marvel at, at
, at how he can he, he can makethem sing and dance the way he
wants them to.
But like, oh, it's a lot ofwork it's a lot.

Mike (59:47):
It's a lot cheaper though oh it is.

Oh god, it is so cheap.
I can see why people use it anda lightweight lightweight yeah.
Yeah, it was.
A show went well and you knowwhat was nice about it A little
different than IPMS Because it'ssmaller.
You get more of kind of acamaraderie with the people
there.

Mike (01:00:05):
Yes, yeah, that's something we took away from the
South Bend show last yearExactly.
It's much more of a fraternalkind of feel to it, just because
everybody's kind of into thesame thing, everybody speaks the
same language, all the vendorsare skewed in one direction.
Primarily, and it's just thewhole thing, is it's an armor
show.

Kentucky Dave (01:00:26):
The smaller size, it's more intimate in many ways
.
Yeah, it is, and that's not acriticism, it's just.
I mean, the AMPS National isdifferent from the IPMS National
.
They're two differentexperiences, both of them great.
Both of them great, but they'retwo different experiences.

Mike (01:00:48):
They're back in South Bend next year, so hopefully we can
get our act together in 2026 andactually get to some model
shows.

We are going to be there, mike, come heck or
high water yeah that's what wesaid this year.

Bruce MacRae (01:00:59):
I'll tell you about water?

Mike (01:01:02):
And high water at that, high water and stop me.

One thing I thought was very interesting
about the AMPS awards and I'vebeen to enough IPS awards, but
the AMPS it was interesting.
The room could have been biggerbecause they're literally
people standing lining the walls.

Yeah.

A little short there, but what happened was you
got a sense of everyone wasexcited for the people winning
and they do give you all of yourawards.
At the time they put them allin a envelope with your papers
and they handed it to you.
Then they call out the best ofsand there was such a sense of

(01:01:42):
everyone is sincerely happy foreveryone else.

Mike (01:01:45):
Well, that just adds to the whole fraternal feel, to the
whole thing it did a lotLooking forward to the next time
we can get to AMPS again.
Oh yeah, well, after AMPS youhad one more stop.

Yes, we can get to AMPS again.
Oh yeah, well, after AMPS youhad one more stop.
Yes, we went to Ohio, and thatwas the great name ModelCon.
Where in Ohio?
Oh, someplace I'd never heardof before, what part of the
state Roughly center, just alittle to the east, yeah, kind
of above Columbus, I think.

Mike (01:02:16):
IPMS website is saying Perrysburg.

That's it, perrysburg.
Yes, okay, thank you.

Mike (01:02:22):
Yeah, that's not one I've been to.
What did you say mid-state?

Yeah, mid-state, just maybe about 10 o'clock from
the center, and it was a nicelittle show.
We were a little squeezed forspace.
Tables were quite full.
I did have an interestingmoment.
I like to do all my paperworkin advance, so all I have to do
is hand it in.
I don't want to fill anythingout.

(01:02:46):
There's enough to do, and I'vealways feel a little pressed
trying to put everything down,get everything right, because I
always judge and that means Ihave to get the models entered
on the table.
I take my personal photographs,see what's for sale that I
can't live without all in thethree hours, and then judge,

(01:03:07):
because once the judging is done, basically the show's over.
And then talk to everyone I talkto.
So what happens?
As I'm entering, I put down aschnapps in the large military
vehicle category, okay, and I'mgetting stuff set up and the guy
who's running the show says I'mgoing to have to ask you to

(01:03:28):
move that into diorama, really.
He says, yeah, well, you knowit's, you know the base is, you
know it's got, you know it's gota road and grass and leaves and
ruts, and yeah, so we don'tjudge the base if we only judge
the piece.
And he says, well, your figureand the dog, they're looking off

(01:03:48):
in a direction you know, likethey're looking at something
together.
And he tells a story.
Doesn't every figure on a modellook somewhere that would be
off the table?
I mean really, anyway, Icouldn't talk him out of it.
It's his show, so I moved it.
So it has to go in diorama.
Against my Nazis, quit diorama.
You can only take one award, soautomatically one is going to

(01:04:11):
lose.
I'm like, oh, damn it.
And it's like, okay, well,whatever.
And I noticed there were noentries in large military
vehicle.
It was now empty.
It took the only one that wasin it.
And so the head judge comes tome and says I'm going to have to
ask you to move that.

(01:04:32):
That is not a diorama thatneeds to go over here.
I'd be happy to.
So I'm.
I'm a rate, luckily everythingin pencil.
I erased it, rewrote thenumbers on dang.
So something kind of weirdhappened is that when it it took
first in this category but itdid not schnapps, did not take

(01:04:52):
best armor, it was a Shermantank.
It was beautifully done.
When the awards happened, ittook people's choice and best of
show.
Like how can I take best ofshow if it didn't take best
military vehicle?
I've never seen that.

Mike (01:05:09):
I don't know, unless they're spreading the wealth.
I don't know.
But I tell you dioramas hasbeen a category that is well.
Well, my story is where was it?
I think it was in charlotte,north carolina.
I was at a show very early inmy modeling life and I've got
this tiger tank.
I'd built the old school way toget a late version.

(01:05:31):
You take the old tamiya kit andyou kit bash it with the Nakimo
late tiger, put the steelwheels on it, put the cast
cupola on it and all that andmake a late tiger.
And I'd done one that was onthe cover of one of the old
Osprey books and it was justcrew in the hatches rumbling
down a road.
But I'd put this little chickenwith his wings spread and

(01:05:54):
running out, trying to run outfrom under the front of the tank
and not get run over right.

Oh, sure, yeah.

Mike (01:05:59):
Perfect.
It was this little tiny detail,right, and I had not had it in
dioramas, so they put it indioramas and now it gets beat
out.
Now, mind you, I'm 17 years old, right, right?
So it gets beat out by a troopof dwarves pushing a siege
cannon Right, it's a fantasydiorama.

(01:06:20):
That was beautiful.
But you know, that's kind ofwhere this, I would say it
leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Maybe it does, but it's wherethings kind of get gray and it's
just inconsistent show to showsometimes.

Well, when dioramas started this was back
in the 70s I really kind ofpushed that category because I
liked doing them, and there wasno diorama category, it was just
other.
And what happened was whendiorama started to show up.
Well, then it became a diorama.
What is a diorama?
And there were some that were,literally, if you, if you just
poured dirt on top of a flatpiece of wood and put the tank

(01:06:59):
on it, that's a diorama.
That's it.
That doesn't tell the story.
No, and there are people whoare like that, nuts, for for it.
And then we eventually evolvedinto a place where, well, we
went, maybe we should need largeand small diorama.
So yours would have been asmall diorama, or what they call
a vignette.
Yeah, so it doesn't competeagainst, you know, the invasion

(01:07:23):
of Normandy with 6,000 figures.
I mean that would be nuts,right?
So then then then now there'sthis other feel of a vignette is
I think this comes from thesoldier people it's a scene that
doesn't have a story.
So you could have the typicalthree guys standing next to a

(01:07:45):
tank, everybody looking off in adifferent direction.
There's no story, but it'sstill a scene.
And then they're calling thosevignettes now, still a scene and
then they're calling thosevignettes now and therefore
we're going to show the skill ofthe painting and the assembly,
but there's no story.

If you want to start a fight, go to the IPMS
Nationals, go into the judgingroom when they're doing the
judge's brief and ask for thedefinition of a diorama and then
ask for clarity onout-of-the-box basic kit build
oh my, yeah, or don't yeah, ordon't yeah yeah, go to the bar

(01:08:24):
and have a beer instead exactlyno, no, no.
Those have been.
Those have been areas ofcontention for as long as
there's been model contests.

Mike, dave is right.
What you do is it's likethrowing a grenade in a room and
leaving.
That's right, yeah, and thenwatch them fight.
Oh, yeah, yes, yeah, we've hadsome.
The thing about competitions isthat, as I've heard people go
on about, well, you know,competition is not good.

(01:08:56):
We should just all displaythings.
No, we should compete.
And I think, coming from myearliest IPMS days, I realized
that competition pushes skills.
They raise everyone's skilllevel.
You know, hey, I did this goodand you win.
Well, I need to do somethingbetter next time, because Bob
over here is going to do thisand everyone's skill improves,

(01:09:18):
kind of like what happens.
Like aviation World War II.
Look what competition did withthat.
In the 30s they still hadbiplanes and then they were in
jet fighters at the end of thewar.
Right, I mean competition.
So in that way I like to seethe competition, but of course I
like to also see people sharetheir knowledge.

(01:09:40):
Boy, how did I get off on thatone?

That's okay.
So now has your wife forbiddenyou from traveling ever again?
Oh no, you're now simply stuckat home and you're not going to
any more model contests.
There'll be no more drivingcross-country, none of that
right.

Mike (01:10:00):
No, well, that's a good segue.
What is in store for 2026?

She loves to travel.
We bought a new trailer.
We got a lot of money back onthat truck, and so we bought a
new trailer, one that's a littlebigger, which I might actually
be able to work on a model in it.

Mike (01:10:18):
Has it got pontoons?

No, but we could probably attach them.
I'm going to be sure that everytime we by the way, that site
that flooded, that half of thesite flooded and that if we had
camped on the other half, thatwas all above water.
Oh well we still probably gothit by that car.
But you know, probably, but youknow it would have been our car

(01:10:44):
then.
But, um, but yeah, so no, no,she's like, oh, no, no, we're
still traveling.
She loves to travel and she'sloves taking me to shows and I
love going to them.
Uh yo, that was a thing Iwanted to mention.
The mike had made not like dave, had made an interesting remark
.
I was listening to your showyesterday, number 144.

(01:11:06):
Okay, you had said the internetis like drinking water from a
fire hose yep you know, it justblasts all over you.
And I said, yes, I laughed verygood, I almost spit up my milk.
Anyway, what was fun was that?
And yet you think about that,and from the days before we had

(01:11:29):
an internet, and we all rememberthat today I say, I'm working
at my bench, what is the colorof an American World War II
canteen cup?
The screw the cap, what is it?
And I go to the computer, Itype in that, I look it up, I
look for photos.
I get dozens and dozens ofpictures of canteens where it

(01:11:50):
looks like most of them areblack plastic, with a few are
aluminum, unpainted.
Interesting.
We couldn't do that 30 yearsago.

No.

And also the fact that we can see other people's
work and talk to model makersaround the world and make new
friends.

Yep.

And that is we couldn't do that without this.

Oh yeah, I cannot imagine hopping in a time
machine, going back to the late80s, early 90s and telling my
much younger modeler self thatyou're going to know and
interact with modelers fromAustralia and England and

(01:12:34):
Finland.
Yeah, I mean not muchinteracting with Russia right
now.

At the moment, yeah, at the moment Finland.

Yeah, but it is.
It is so completely different aworld.
It's almost not the same hobbyin many respects.

Yeah, and you know , as we've seen from well from
our days before the empire ofyou know, pe and 3D printing and
, of course, all the types ofpaint chemicals that we're using
now that we didn't have backwhen, when it was only enamel
done.
But you've got to wonder what'sit going to look like in the

(01:13:16):
next 10 or 20 years?
What will kits look like?

Mike (01:13:21):
We're going to have to wait and find out, Bruce.

Well, yeah, yeah.
But you've seen how a model kit.
I just picked up a kit fromlast year from Wichita.
It was an old Revell, 1955.
The long, pointy nose thing,experimental X3 stiletto, and I
remember seeing it as a kid.
The guy wanted 10 bucks, it wasall theirs.

(01:13:45):
I bought it just for nostalgiaand I was looking at how simple
the model is, how few parts.
And then I've got one today,ather and 48 scale.
I don't know what the companyis come some company never heard
of sort of s?
U s t a something and the partsso many, full interior, 48

(01:14:09):
scale and the details are socrisp.
And it just like you know inthat time how we've gone with
computers to be able tobasically cut the tools instead
of a guy by hand doing it Come along way.

Mike (01:14:25):
A long way.
Well, do you have shows you gotin mind next year?
I do you coming back east again.

I am, I am, I am, I am, I am looking at probably
not going to do the amps thistime next year, but I'm thinking
about the nationals.
Okay, cookies hit several,several shows and at the moment

(01:14:58):
we're going to test out our newtrailer a long way from water
and we're going to go to a showin leavenworth, because that's
kansas, yeah, yeah, and there'san ipima show there, and then we
will slide down from there to,yes, another Amps show in Texas.
I think it's Good, some GoodWill, good All.

(01:15:22):
It's a small town betweenAustin and Houston.

Mike (01:15:27):
Okay.

It's kind of a small place, but they've got an
Amps show there and then we'llcome back and as we return,
October for me there will befour shows in four weekends, so
we'll do those two.
When I come home, I'm planningon going back to the AVG show in
Antelope Valley, Lancaster.
I think they call themselvesthe Desert Classic.

(01:15:49):
I always like the AVG, theirAntelope Valley group, and the
last one will be I want to goback to the one in Arizona,
Model Zona.

Mike (01:16:02):
Model Zona.
Yeah, we've got several friendsthat attend that one every year
.

So that's Mike's hometown.
Okay, yep, I'm planning to hitthose.
The one little thing that Ihave just finished is one for my
wife to hit those.
The one little thing that Ihave just finished is one for my
wife, if you remember 1975.
Tamiya M3 US Half Track Greatkid in its day, not so good
today.
Well, she grew up watching theRat Patrol, as most of us did,

(01:16:32):
so you made this one as a Germanvehicle?
Yes, really, I guess.
So yeah, well, the funny partis that we were married and
we're watching the Rat Patroland she said hey, there's one of
those German half-tracks, Isaid, no, no, honey, that's an
American half-track.
No, no, this is a Germanhalf-track.
It's got a cross on the hood.

(01:16:53):
No, it's actually an M3.
And the other one there's anM16.
They just repainted.
See, honey, there are noHanamags available to Hollywood
in 1960s, but lots of UShalf-tracks.
So she's like oh really, yeah,no, really, really, no, no
Hanamags, no handbags.
So that's been our running joke.

You need to sit her down and watch Battle of the
Bulge with her.
Oh yes.

Yes, that's right.
That's right.
Then she can look at M47s.
And painted rocks and paintedrocks yes, so anyway, she bought
me this kit and had me paint itin AfriCorps.

Mike (01:17:32):
Well, good for you, man.
Yeah, for all she's put up with, that's the least you could do.

That's right.
So I found out inLeavensworth's show that there
is a category for as seen on TV.

Mike (01:17:47):
Yeah.

Perfect, there you go.

Mike (01:17:50):
You've already got your entry done.
I got one for that All right.
Bruce, it's been a joy talkingto you again, a lot of fun.
I'm sorry all that bad stuffhappened to you, but I'm just
super impressed you still madeit, made it to all your shows
and, man, that's a great storythank you, yeah, I'm.

I'm sorry, it had to be a great story next.

Next time we're on, I expect you to have set it
to music country preferably.

Oh yeah, oh, absolutely yeah.

Have you seen the ballad of the washed out
modeler?

There it is, and yet he couldn't be stopped.
There you go.
If I had to float those modelsout, I was going to.
I was really at one pointdebating in that early morning
do I have to rescue my models?
Because it means I got to wadethrough waist deep water, carry
one tub out at a time.
It'll be at least three tripsand hopefully I don't slip and

(01:18:46):
fall in the water.

Mike (01:18:48):
All right.
Well, we hope to see you at thenational convention next year,
bruce, and until then, we'll bewatching out for your work and
post some stuff on the dojo, ifyou don't mind.

I'll do that.
In fact, what I'll do is, whenI get up, when I start coming
with a list of things back East,I'll let you know where I'm
going to be at.
Who knows?

Mike (01:19:06):
right, thank you.

We'll keep an eye out.
What state are you guys in?

Mike (01:19:10):
Kentucky.

Kentucky, Both of you, yes.
How can it if Kentucky's longkind of where?

on it.
Well, Mike's in Lexington andI'm in Louisville.
We're about 65 miles apart.

Mike (01:19:24):
But we're in the probably the eastern third of the state,
the eastern third God, okay,thank you.
Thank you.
So it's kind of bulbous on oneend and I'm right in the middle
of that.

And then he's just due west of me and in
between where Mike lives and Ilive, 90% of the world's bourbon
is made.

Oh, perfect.
Well, I'm actually having DietCoke on the rocks.
Oh yeah, by the way, if I'm andI may well be coming through
that area someday if I'm comingby your area, I'll stop.

Mike (01:19:54):
Let us know, reach out.
I'll stop by.
Let us know, reach out.
I'll say hi and we'll give youthe Kentucky hospitality I'll
take you to a really good hobbyshop.

Now you're talking , by the way.
Just one last comment is thatone thing that was fortunate for
me as a kid is that I grew upin walking distance of three
hobby shops.

Mike (01:20:16):
Yeah, that helps.

How many kids do we know that?
You know, mom had to drive thema half an hour to get to one.

Yeah.

And I was walking distance to three of them
Awesome.

Mike (01:20:27):
That explains a lot.
It does.

It does.

Well, it was good to talk to you, man.

Great to talk to you guys.
Thank you very much.

Mike (01:20:35):
Oh, you're welcome.

Y'all come back now, yeah.

Mike (01:20:42):
Dave, I tell you what, man .
I hope we have a lot of thingshappen at the IPMS National
Convention and I hope absolutelynone of it is any of that stuff
.

Amen, I kind of felt bad, laughing about it as
he was telling the story, butthe fact that he has, with some
time and distance.
Now he can look back and seethe, a country music song, or
sell it as the next NationalLampoon's vacation movie,

(01:21:21):
because it would work either way.

Mike (01:21:24):
And salute to his wonderful wife too.

Yes man, what an angel.

Mike (01:21:29):
A lot of love and wisdom right there, so he's a lucky guy
.

Yes, he is.

Mike (01:21:34):
I'm glad he made it home safe.

"The Voice of Bob" Bair (01:21:35):
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you by Squadron.
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accessories, all at a greatprice and with great service.
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(01:21:58):
Squadron adding to the stashsince 1968.

Mike (01:22:05):
Well, that's a relevant ad .

Yes, it is.

Mike (01:22:08):
I know what's up on your bench.
You had to lean on Brandon andcompany to bail you out of some
negative modeling.
Dave, what is up on your bench?

Well, as everyone knows, I'm rushing to get some
stuff for a group entry done,some Bearcats for a group entry
done for the Nats, and I was ontrack.
Everything was going good.
And then I had a minor maskingslash decal disaster that

(01:22:37):
sidetracked me because somedecals got destroyed due to some
masking pulling up that I sureas heck didn't think was going
to pull up.
And the problem is, despitehaving the world's largest decal
stash, I did not have areplacement for one of the kit

(01:23:00):
decals that I needed and therewas no other way to fix it or
replace it at least not quicklyother than to go on Squadron's
website, find it.
They had it.
They had it in stock becausetheir website is dynamically
updated.
I knew it was actually in stock.

(01:23:21):
I was able to order it.
I was able to order it and shippriority mail, as much as it
hurt my heart to do so, becauseI needed this thing ASAP.
It arrived today.
So between now and oh dark 30 onWednesday morning, when I hop

(01:23:43):
in my car and head to your houseto arrive before six o'clock,
I'm going to at the benchmodeling trying to get stuff
done for the Nats so that I can.
Well, I've already got oneentry done for the group build

(01:24:05):
for the Nats, but this isanother one and bound to
determine that I'm going tofinish it and it's going to be
on the display table at the Nats.
Well, good, and that's it forme, Other than I want to get
back to the Sam.
I had to move the Sam out ofthe way as I was finishing this
project and I looked at it andreminded me how much I like what

(01:24:27):
I've done on it.
So as soon as we get back fromthe Nats, I am back on the Sam
because I'm going to finish thatsucker.

Mike (01:24:35):
Yeah, y'all need that.
Y'all need to have a hardconversation about the 2026 show
yeah, I know I I mean for you,man, but between the dark time
and the time you got to spend onthese group build projects, for
these group builds you do withthe september's gang.
You only have like four monthsout of the year.
You're doing your own stuff.

Yep, I know, I know.

Mike (01:24:58):
And.
I don't know From this seat.
That's not cool.

Well, I'm hoping we pick a topic for next year
the conversations have alreadystarted where I already have
items built previously that willfit in the group build, so that
then I don't have to come upwith anything new.

(01:25:21):
But we'll see, I'll let you,I'll report back in episode 146.

Mike (01:25:27):
Well, I'll lobby for you.
Hopefully they can do somethingaround Imperial Japanese Army
aircraft yes or Navy high-visfighters.

Or Japanese, you know what?
Japanese catapult float planeswould be a great group build.
You could participate.
For me I was going to say youcould participate.

Mike (01:25:46):
Yeah, I could.

How about your bench?
Well, I kind of know what yourbench looks like.

Mike (01:25:51):
Well, I've been posting a bunch of stuff on the dojo,
that's what I was going to say.

Everybody in the all the listeners who are on the
dojo know what you've beendoing.
You've been cranking it out onthat KV-85.

Mike (01:26:03):
Well, it's not really hypersonic yet, but it's moving
forward.
I've got all the lifting eyeson the engine and transmission
deck, I've got the transmissionaccess hatches in place and I've
got the armor-shrouded exhauston it.
I'm still stuck.

(01:26:23):
I don't have the mesh I wantfor the radiator intake or
outtake.

You know where a great place to find mesh might
be, where the IPMS NationalsMaybe Not what I'm looking for,
though.
Well, not not what I'm lookingfor.
Well, you never know.
I mean you never know you'll be.
You'll be, you'll be pawingthrough a box under a vendor's
table and you'll come acrosssome old piece of aftermarket

(01:26:48):
that works absolutely great foryou.

Mike (01:26:53):
And I have three different sizes of nylon mesh in my save
for later eBay cart, so we'llsee.
With that though, and I alsofinished the dome hatch.
I haven't glued it on yet.
The center engine hatch I don'tknow if I've talked about that
or not Made some rings out offine solder the lift rings for
that, because it has really bigones on it.

(01:27:13):
I think I did talk about that.
We won't talk about that.
It's definitely on the dojo inthe interim.
This radiator screen thing hasgot me a little worried.
You're gonna be able to seeinto them now.
Those screens on the real tankwere pretty, a pretty fine weave
mesh for what they were rightstill, though, if, if you can

(01:27:34):
see down in there, it's obviousthere's nothing under there,
which, if it's dark and youcan't see anything, that's fine,
but if you can, it's kind of adistraction right after a lot of
internet work, I finally founda photograph from aberdeen
proving grounds.

Oh the soviets sent a kv-1 to both boffington
camp and aberdeen ProvingGrounds.

Mike (01:27:54):
Oh, the Soviets sent a KV-1 to both Boffington Camp and
Aberdeen during the war.

Yeah.

Mike (01:28:01):
And it's still the tank that's in the American
collection, the KV, but it'swith the.
The photographer was standingon the turret.
The turret's rotated 90 degreesso it's not overhanging the
engine deck.
And then all the engine andtransmission covers are off.
I don't mean just the hatches,the entire plate above them.

Yeah.

Mike (01:28:22):
And you can see the tops of the radiators that are
adjacent to the engine, and itwas just enough detail that I
made some quick Fusion 360 CADgeometry and I've test printed
them.
And I'm wondering now, though,if I get if I get the mesh right
maybe a little bigger out ofscale, just a little bit to
where I can like.
It looks like these things arekind of like the tops of the

(01:28:47):
radiators or maybe aluminum,natural aluminum, and then, you
know, the radiator banksthemselves were probably
unpainted as well.
Paint these in some lightergrays and things that if the
mesh was big enough, you couldactually see these under them
right so that's where I'm goingnow and the thing is, you're not
trying to replicate no finedetail.

all you want is an impression so that if
somebody's looking at it fromthe right angle, they can see it
.
They can see that there'ssomething there that looks
vaguely approximately, correct?

Mike (01:29:23):
So that's anything else up on my bench.
No, that's pretty much it Now.
You mentioned the float plane.
We'll see how our loadout lookslike when we pack up on
Wednesday, but I'm thinkingabout bringing the float plane
and two of the Moose Rookentries and put those in the
Tiger Meat display area.

Yeah, yeah.

Mike (01:29:43):
I've got no reason to enter any of those in the main
contest, just don't want to.

Right.

Mike (01:29:50):
But I'd like folks to see them.

Yeah, well, you know what I've actually thought
that there are one or two itemsI may bring for display only, as
well as the couple items I'mbringing for the group build.

Mike (01:30:05):
Well, let's talk about it.
Maybe we can do a Mojo displayat the Tiger Meet.
That would be a good idea.

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(01:30:34):
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Mike (01:30:57):
Well, folks, thanks for enduring this truncated episode
of Plastic Model Mojo.
We hope everybody has a safetrip to and from the National
Convention.

Yep.

Mike (01:31:07):
And really looking forward to it, dave, hope we have a
good time.
I know we have a good time.
Hope we have a really, reallygood time.

Yes, we're going to have a great time For all the
listeners, everybody who'slistening to this.
We have a table in the vendorroom and we want you to stop by
say hi, talk with us about anepisode, about something on the
dojo, about what you brought tothe Nationals.

Mike (01:31:39):
We really that is the single biggest enjoyment that
mike and I get out of thenationals, and if it's your
first time, make sure you telldave yes, absolutely well, dave,
I will see you bright and early, or dark and early, on
wednesday morning.

My friend, you will, you will, I will not be
late.
I guarantee that.

Mike (01:31:55):
Good luck on your Bearcat.
Getting that wrapped up Anothergood reason for a truncated
episode.

You got a little more modeling time.
That's right.

Mike (01:32:04):
All right, man.
Until then.
So many kits, dave.

So little time, mike, see you soon.

Mike (01:32:09):
See you in a few days.

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