Scenic Products, Model Shows, and Bases Shop Talk: Episode 138

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
The Voice of Bob (Bair) (00:12):
Welcome to Plastic Model Mojo, a
podcast dedicated to scalemodeling, as well as the news
and events around the hobby.
Let's join Mike and KentuckyDave as they strive to be
informative, entertaining andhelp you keep your modeling mojo
alive.

Mike (00:42):
Well, mojovia, welcome to episode 138 of Plastic Model
Mojo and brought to you livefrom Soggy Bottom Kentucky.

Kentucky Dave (00:49):
God yes.

Mike (00:51):
Kentucky, dave, how you doing.

I'm doing good.
Everything is damp, that's anunderstatement.

Mike (00:58):
Yeah Well, we're not alone tonight.
We got Mr Jeff Groves, theinch-high guy, in the third
chair, jeff, how you doingtonight?
Hey, I'm good, mike.
Hi, got Mr Jeff Groves, theinch high guy, in the third
chair, jeff, how?

Jeff Groves (01:04):
you doing tonight?
Hey, I'm good Mike, Hi Dave, Hieverybody out in Mojovia, I'm
still keeping the head abovewater here in the mighty state
of Indiana.

Mike (01:13):
Well, how's things where you are?
Is it wet up there too?

It has been wet for the last couple of days.
The mighty White River hasjumped its banks, but we aren't
underwater yet, so we're stilldoing okay.
Hopefully you live on a hillAbove the water level in the
river, that's for sure.

Mike (01:30):
Well, good, well, we're going to start with you, jeff.
What's been up in your modelsphere of late?

Well, my model sphere of late just today was
pretty darn enjoyable Went tothe.
Ipms Roscoe Turner show inIndianapolis.

You're killing me dude.

Well, you know, if that big red patch of radar
wasn't sitting on you thismorning, it would have been
great to have you guys up there.

Mike (01:56):
Well, I was out from the beginning, but I was sad to hear
that Dave had to bail.
But go ahead.
I interrupt.

No, no, that's great.
It was every bit of a good show.
As you remember from ever beingthere, they had 120 vendor
tables.
I never did get an entry count,but I would put it a little
north of 600 models on the table.
Yeah, they have a good policy.
It's $10 to get in the door andas many models as you want to
bring with you.

(02:24):
The guy in line ahead of me had18.

Mike (02:27):
Well, I mean, you have, I brought five.
I only brought five.
Okay, Well, that's not badeither.
It's more than I've everbrought to a model show.

It was a good time.

Mike (02:38):
Four years work for me.
Well good.
I'm glad you had a good time.
Was the crowd good, despite theweather?
I don't know how the weather uptoward Indianapolis has been, I
would imagine not a whole lotdifferent.

Looking in the parking lot I thought, oh man,
there's been a lot of guys thatare held up, but they all showed
up.
Yeah, and it filled up.
It filled up, nice.
There were three estates in thevendor room where guys were

(03:12):
liquidating from modelers we'velost.

One of those was our special agent 003, Brandon
Jacobs.

Okay, texas.

Yeah, from Texas.
He and a friend went up andbought a 1700 kit collection.

They were there, I'm telling you.
They were blowing them out.
They were trying to not go homewith piles of stuff and it
showed.

Speaking of that, did you buy some stuff?
You sent me some pictures.

Oh, dave, I tell you I was a bad boy.
I've been feeling guiltybecause the Spru brothers had a
pretty good discount.
I think it was 30% off if youbought over a certain limit.
So of course I got to thatlimit and got my 30% off and I
thought, okay, I'm done buyingand that that lasted until this
show.

Mike (04:00):
Oh, for a minute you had me thinking they were at the
show.

Oh, no, no, no, that was a mail order thing.
But they had a lot of fine moldkits that you rarely find, let
alone find on sale, and they hadmarked them down.
But I sent Dave a box of 72ndscale mostly Japanese stuff.
That was $10 a kit and it wasstuff you don't see all the time
.

Now there was 148 scale kit in there.
What the heck was wrong withthat?

Well, you just can't filter them all out.
You know, it's just that kindof thing.
And then at the end of it I waswalking through and a vendor
had $10 on a bunch of DragonArmor for $10 each and they said
everything on the table's halfoff and I thought, oh man.

Everett McCallum would have been going hog wild.

Yeah, so I wound up with probably a dozen kits
altogether and I didn't needthem.
Let me put it that way.

Man, there were a couple of those in that box.
You sent me that I would havebeen fighting you for.

Well, I thought if you wanted them I could have
picked you up.
I picked up a couple out ofthat box for me and if you need
that, kate, I've got eight ofthem on my shelf right now.

I've got more Kates than I know what to do
with.
But there was that inline nose,judy.
Oh yeah, those are tough tocome by.

There were lots of just everywhere you looked was a
good deal and the vendors werewilling to deal and they did
stick around.
You know a lot of shows whenlunch hits they start packing up
and most of these guys I'd say80% of them stayed after lunch
and right to the end.

Well, we will talk about that later in our
shop talk because that's asubject of discussion and
concern.

Yes, absolutely.

Mike (05:41):
So one more question, Jeff , regarding the Roscoe Turner
show.
Did it rain while you werethere?
Yes, absolutely so.
One more question, Jeff,regarding the Roscoe Turner show
.

Did it rain while you were there?
Yes, yes, it came and went, andthen by the time we left it got
pretty heavy.
So the drive home was prettyheavy.
But I only live an hour fromthere, so an hour that's not too
much.

Mike (05:57):
Always thought when we were there in the new place out
there in Lebanon actually, thatif it rained hard it'd almost be
deafening inside those polebarns.

It wasn't terrible, but yeah, I know what you mean.

They had no way to record when it's fallen on
that pole barn like that.

No, you would have had trouble recording definitely
.

Mike (06:17):
Dave, what's up in your model sphere?

My model sphere is disappointing because I was
all set to grab Skippy and to goup to the show.
I got a last minute reprievewhere I could run up.
Everything was hitting on allcylinders and then yesterday
they were predicting bad weatherhitting Louisville around three

(06:44):
o'clock in the morning, so itlooked like it was going to be
the worst was going to be overby.
You know, 6 am about the timeI'd be getting up and getting
ready and all that stuff.
And then it just kept hoveringand hovering and the bad stuff
was always just to the west andnorth of us and basically I got

(07:09):
a hold of Skippy about 630.
And I'm like dude, I don'tthink with the amount of water
and everything else, nobodyelse's home.
I got a bail and so I textedwith Skippy and then I texted
Inch to let him know I waslooking.
There were a lot of guys I waslooking forward to seeing,

(07:30):
including Brandon and Agent 001.
And it just really disappointing, really disappointing, stacked
on top of the fact that I'vebeen a bachelor for the last
four days and I was planning ongetting a lot of modeling done,
but then my dog ate my internet,which screwed up my work,

(07:54):
messed up my work from homesituation.
And when I say the dog ate myinternet, I mean my dog.
One of my dogs went outside.
The cable that runs into thehouse that brings the internet
into the house had fallen downclose to the ground and he
decided it was a chew toy and soit killed.

(08:15):
Wednesday night it killed myinternet and I didn't get it
restored till Friday.
Just one thing after another.
So I did not get nearly as muchmodeling done as I planned to.
So I'm still coming off thehigh of HeritageCon, but I'm a
sad puppy as far as the amountof modeling I've gotten done and

(08:39):
that I missed the indie show.
But on the plus side I do havea Jeff Groves-inspired batch
build going on and that's movingalong really well.
We'll talk about that later.

Mike (08:52):
Mike, how about you?
Well, it's been an interestingweek.
A couple of weeks I've beenwell.
Of course we got back fromHeritageCon.
We're about what are we a weekor two weeks past that?

now.

Mike (09:03):
Two weeks past.
I'm losing track of time.

It's crazy weather.
I thought today was Sunday.

Mike (09:11):
Well, we've picked up Kit Mask as a sponsor.

Yes.

Mike (09:14):
And that'll roll out starting in May.
But we're doing somebehind-the-scenes stuff that's
really fun with Janelle andKevin, yes, and really looking
forward to launching that andhelping them support their
business while they help ussupport the podcast.
So that's taken up a littletime, yeah, other than that, not
a lot.
I mean that's been most of mymodeling, or modeling adjacent

(09:37):
podcast, adjacent kind of stuff.

Well, your work has been busy too, yeah.

Mike (09:41):
I've been busy at work, but that's okay, it's good.
It's good to be busy at work.
Yes, busy enough, busy enough.
Well, I mean, that's prettymuch my model sphere.
I'm just trying to get all thatgoing and thinking ahead a
little bit for our schedulingand getting our guests into
April and May lined up, andwe've got some good stuff coming

(10:02):
folks, so stay tuned well, weare recording an episode, and
that means modeling fluid.

And why don't we start off with jeff?
Because I know this is kind ofspecial modeling fluid for him
yeah, well, every modeling fluidspecial, isn't it to?
Some degree to true enough.

so True enough Some more than others, some more
than others.

So what do you got?

I'm going to see if I can do the Kentucky Dave's
signature bottle open here.

Okay.

Did it come through ?
Yeah, there we go.
I am having a Blue Moon BelgianWhite Great choice.
Yeah, Probably one of myfavorite beers, if not the
favorite First beer I've had inseveral months.
I've been fighting some healthissues so I've had to lay off

(10:54):
the beer on the recommendationof my physician, and he did say
I could cheat once in a while sothis is my cheat beer, all
right.

Mike (10:59):
Well, thanks for cheating with us, yeah.

What about you, Mike?

Mike (11:01):
What do you got?
I've got a little bullet,kentucky bourbon, whiskey, nice.
I've abstained pretty much.
Well, not quite sinceHeritageCon we had one last
episode, but since last episodeI've not had much of anything.
And I went and got thisThursday night and actually went
for Russell's tenure and theydidn't have it again and I told

(11:24):
the clerk about that.

You've made it too popular.

Mike (11:27):
I guess I have.

You personally have made that a popular one.

Mike (11:30):
Folks are catching on.

That's right.

Mike (11:32):
I went for the economy and I picked up the bullet.
Folks know.
Folks know what I think aboutthat.

Oh yeah, what about you, Dave?
Well, I think I've done thisone once before.
I've actually got a cocktailtonight.

Mike (11:47):
I have a Lime, rickey.
Ah, you have done that.

That was a long time ago A long time ago A Lime
Rickey at least.
The way you get a bunch ofvariations is gin, tanqueray, in
this case Limeade, or ItalianLime Soda, which you can get at
Trader Joe's, a little sweetlime concentrated, sweet lime

(12:12):
juice and simple syrup over ice.
It's kind of a cousin of a TomCollins.
If you like a Tom Collins whichis lemon-based, you'll like a
Lime Ricky which is lime-based.
So I already know I'm going tolike this by the end of the show
, but we'll wrap it up at theend.

Mike (12:33):
We got to get you up to a Hendrick or a botanist or
something.

Well, I like it.
I'll tell you, I like aviationJim, but my wife is a Tanqueray
fan.
That's the Jim, so you know.

Mike (12:46):
That's the gin.
Beam of gin.

Exactly.

Mike (12:50):
That is exactly what it is .
Well, I don't know, that mightbe Beefeater, might be the gin
beam of gin.

Yeah, this might be Tanqueray's one step up.

Mike (13:00):
Sorry, steve.
You said Well, we've got somelistener mail, dave, not a Steve
.
You stood Well, we've got somelistener mail, dave.
Not a lot, disappointingly.
Folks need to step it up.
That's what they need to do.

Yep.
Email us in.
Let us know what you like, whatyou don't like.
Submit wheel questions.
Submit topics.
Keep it coming because, as Mikehas said, that's the most
enjoyable part of the show forus.

Mike (13:27):
It is, and a lot of these are announcements.
Okay, which I guess is okay.
Yeah, absolutely There'll beone at the end.
That's not, which is kind ofcool, but we'll go from there.
First up, our friend KristenGurney, with Bases by Bill.
They've got a new productannouncement and some of our
listeners might have heard aboutthis on the Plastic Posse
podcast because Christian was aguest on there very, very

(13:49):
recently, like earlier this week.
Yes, they've got a new line ofbases that actually inset their
carrier deck textured panelsinto a hardwood or decorative
wood base.
Yes, it makes for a really nicedisplay.

Plus, they're adding new textured bases,
concrete, and, I think, one ortwo other ones that he was
talking about.
One of the things I like aboutbases by Bill is they are so
innovative.
They sit there and they thinkand they go.
Oh well, this would be good,and you're just amazed that
nobody else has thought of it.

No, that would be very versatile.
I think that's a good idea todress those bases up.

Mike (14:32):
Yep Really makes it sharp, I agree.

Yeah, I agree.

Mike (14:36):
So folks check out Bases by Bill and see what they got
going on with these new insetcarrier deck bases.
Well, our friend Michaelaelpoland down in knoxville I can't
believe this has been a yearalready because brandon was at.
Brandon jacob was at roscoeturner show at his big, big pile
of kit collection.

(14:56):
Yeah, by happenstance hehappened to be at the knoxville
smoky mountain model con lastyear when I took a detour on a
trip down to see my folks withmy youngest son, we dodged into
Knoxville and took in about anhour of the show last year and
they were part of the model showspotlight last year for this
show.
So it's coming up again, man,saturday May 31st from 9 to 4 at

(15:22):
the gym at the KnoxvilleCatholic High School.
This is a new high school.
This was a really really coolvenue, really nice venue, and
unfortunately this year I'mgoing to be away that weekend so
I'm not gonna be able to to goagain.
I'd like to because it lookedlike a great show, but they've
adding a few more vendor tablesand I don't know.
They just want to want us tohelp promote it.

(15:44):
So we're going to do thatbecause they supported the show
in the past and we wish them allthe success.

It's a great show and I just want you to know
Agent 003 is everywhere.
You never know where or whenyou're going to run into Brandon
Jacobs.
He's everywhere.

Mike (16:02):
Well, I hope that Mrs 003 didn't say, yeah, you can buy
those, you're just not cominghome.
They're all gone.

Hey, Brandon, I'd be interested to know if she
even knew about it.

Mike (16:15):
Well, and then finally, dave, from the email side of
things, back from a long hiatus,is Michael Karnalka from New
York City.
Oh good, I want Michael'squestion.
Well, Michael wants to knowhave we ever sought out or hoped
that there was a model kit of acar that you or your parents
once owned, or a plane that youflew on, et cetera?

(16:37):
He has AMT's 76 AMC Gremlinthat his dad drove for longer
than he should have.

Oh God.

Mike (16:45):
Which was about 20 minutes .
Yes, during the late 70s, early80s.
He has no immediate desire toconstruct it, but one day, one
day, he's going to do this.
So, jeff, is there anythinglike that that you can think of?

The only things with cars are.
I've occasionally thought theywould make a good gift for
somebody.
If you know, one of yourbuddies really, really, really
got into one of his cars.
You know that kind of thing,but not not for me.
I mean, a car to me is is autilitarian thing, you know
point A to point B.

(17:21):
Yeah, um.
Now if was like you and had amodel railroading past, I might
be inspired to build one of myhouses back on a hill somewhere.
You know something like that, apiece of scenery that you know
this was the house I grew up inInteresting.
The thing about that stuff,though, is you will know that
once you get to measuring outyour house, you know that thing

(17:42):
turns into a monster as a model.
You don't think of it as thatbig, but you put it on a layout
or something, and it takes up alot of space.
What about you?

Dave, well, both I've done both I think you've
got one.
Yeah Right, I've got a 94 Supraand I've got to me a kit of it.
I built it once and I want tobuild it again.
In addition, do either of youremember an airline called
Piedmont?

Mike (18:08):
Yes, absolutely.

Based in Charlotte, flew all over my part
of the country when I wasgrowing up.
Now this is sometime between1964 and 1970.
So this is all before airlinederegulation and all of that.
Piedmont was a small regionalairline that covered the
Carolinas, kentucky, tennessee,virginia, etc.

(18:34):
And we were living in Richmond,virginia, at the time.
But both my mother and fathergrew up here in Louisville and
both of our families were here,both of their parents were here,
and I distinctly rememberflying on Piedmont on a Fokker

(18:59):
F-27, which, if you've ever seenit, is a high-wing twin-turbo
prop aircraft which there's akit of which I have, and this is
the way airlines were in theold regulated days.
The flight went from Richmondto Norfolk to maybe

(19:24):
Charlottesville, virginia.
Then it went into theTri-Cities in Tennessee Yep,
that's my home airport, yeah.
Then it went into, I think,nashville, lexington and
Louisville.

Mike (19:36):
Is this a general comment or a Dave's?
This is what happened to Davecomment.

No, this is the flight that I took.
It was like riding on aGreyhound bus that flew because
it stopped in every littleairport.

Mike (19:56):
When did they deregulate?
Because everything ever flew onPiedmont went to Charlotte.
It's like flying Delta toAtlanta.

Right.
Well, they deregulated airlines, thanks to Herb Kelleher and
Southwest Airlines.
The deregulation started afterthe Supreme Court case in 75 or
76.

Mike (20:18):
And deregulation Almost 10 years before I'm talking about.

Right Deregulation really kicked in
with the Reagan administrationin the early 80s.

Were there any chickens or livestock on your
flight at all?

But it really was that.
It was that vibe.
If somebody had come on with acouple of chickens it would in
no way have been unusual.
Literally it was like it wasflying on a bus with wings.
Today you wouldn't find.
You might find a directLouisville-Richmond flight on

(20:55):
some smaller airline.
I mean, this stopped in everysmall town between Richmond and
Louisville.
It was amazing and I rememberthe flight and what I
particularly remember was flyinginto Tri-City Airport in
Tennessee because, of course, onits wing to make the approach

(21:16):
for or at least it seemed thatway to somebody who was seven or
eight years old.
But because of that, believe itor not, I remember that flight
as if it occurred yesterday.

(21:38):
Oh yeah, and I really one daywant to do that kit in Piedmont
markings.
Can you get them?
I'm sure somebody makesPiedmont markings for that.

Mike (21:50):
Yeah, I flew that same airframe from Tri-Cities to
Atlanta when I went to Europe.

Oh, did you?
Yeah, yeah, that was not acomfortable airplane.

Mike (22:00):
It wasn't bad.
It's better than what we flewback.
Well, I've got one too Okay andthe kit is out.
There-ish sort of Folks comingthrough the back catalog know my
Volvo proclivities and I'veowned V70 XCs which were the
first cross-country Volvo wagonsin the late 90s and up to 2000,

(22:25):
.
98, 99, 2000.
And these cars were based onVolvo's P80 platform which
started about 90, I don't knowfour or five or six, with the
850 wagons which to me actuallykits an 850 wagon.

Yeah.

Mike (22:42):
So the it's almost there, but things like the front grille
and the XC70s had a little bittaller wheelbase and the roof
rack was different and thegrille was different.
I would like to do one of those.

I wonder if somebody makes a resin
conversion body for that kit.

Mike (23:00):
Well, I've looked.
I've looked for STL files tomake the conversion.
There's just nothing out there.
The Tamiya 850 wagon kit iskind of hard to find and there
it's like it's a.
It's a curbside kit, whichmeans there's not a lot to it.
Right, right, a hundred, ahundred bucks, wow, wow.
So yeah, I don't want it thatbad.
That'll buy a couple of armorkits that I'd probably rather

(23:24):
build.
So interesting question.
It was yeah.

So thank you, mr Karnaca, we appreciate it.

Mike (23:32):
And welcome back.
Well, Dave, what's going on onthe direct message from Facebook
?

Well, I've got several.
Number one you mentionedChristian Gurney.
Well, christian and Billactually went down to the Roscoe
Turner Show, not to vend but toparticipate, and Christian DMed
me to tell me that Bill tookseveral models down there and
won several awards.

(23:57):
Not good for him.
Oh, congratulations,congratulations, bill of Bases
by Bill.
Congratulations, bill of Basesby Bill.
Bob Bayer, the voice of Bob.
You know, we talked lastepisode about dropping parts and
finding parts and parts gettingcaught in your clothes and all,
and Bob had an interestingsuggestion, which is modeling in

(24:22):
shorts.
Which is just one step removedfrom modeling in your underwear,
which is just what?

never mind, now, we're not going to go there I'd
have so much stuff super gluedto my legs, it would not be
funny that was my thought too.

Either that or I would drop an exacto and catch
myself in the in the artery thatruns down the inner thigh.
That would be bad.
Fellow club member and listener, lee Fogle sent Mike and I a
really, really, really nice gift.
He sent us each a whiskeytumbler that was engraved as if

(25:03):
it was a modeling fluidprescription.
And they're really nice,they're really classy.
He sent one to Mike and one tome, and I know Mike has already
broken his in.
He posted that on the dojo.

Mike (25:19):
I'm drinking out of it right now, in fact.

Are you really?
You'll have to take a pictureof that and post that on the
dojo.
I'll need to put it back up,lee, thank you.
That was a very kind gesture.
He appreciates the podcast andthat's why he did it, and I
can't tell you how much weappreciate that level of support
.
To let us know how much youenjoy it.

Mike (25:43):
Well, it's interesting because the line on this glass
for the dose is if you assume noice, it's a three-finger pour
yes, yeah, I don't want to dotoo many of those.

That's a full boat prescription.

Mike (25:57):
That'll cure what ails you .

Yes.

Mike (26:00):
Except the headache.

One of the things I did miss by not going to Indy
was seeing our special agent001.
Michael Rasky.
Michael Rasky, who had offeredto pick up he has in the past
picked up from Patties ofJamaica some Jamaican beef
patties that Mike and I bothjust absolutely love and he had

(26:24):
offered again since he had heardI was coming up, and thank gosh
, I didn't tell him to get thembecause it turns out I would be
having to make a special trip upthere to get them.
Because, those things are good,man, and we got to get back to
Roscoe Turner.
We got to do it.

Mike (26:42):
We do.
Unfortunately, it's reallyclose to HeritageCon.

Yes, it is.

Mike (26:48):
Well, this time wasn't terribly close.

No, we could have done it, like I said, if it was
not for a freak lot of reallybad weather.

Mike (26:56):
I had other things to do today, I know, yes, the weather
got you and hopefully next yearwon't be that way.

Right.
Finally, ethan Idenmill DM'd usabout two matters.
One in regard to we weretalking about tweezers and all,
and he was talking about the GodHand tweezers.
Now, god Hand is a company outof Japan that makes really
high-end tools, out of Japanthat makes really high-end tools

(27:30):
, and I swear by their God HandNippers or guillotine cutters,
hand cutters, and, frankly, itis my single favorite modeling
tool and the one I would not dowithout.
He has their tweezers and, asyou would expect, their quality
is just really, really great.
So he recommends those if youneed a really fine set of

(27:50):
tweezers.
He also said on a recent flight, he tried peanut butter whiskey
.
Oh no, and he liked it.
So peanut butter whiskey isapparently never going away and
we will constantly be hearingabout it, which, frankly, is

(28:11):
endlessly entertaining to me,because none of that was in any
way, shape or form, planned.
It was a happy accident, and Ihave heard about it ever since
incident and I have heard aboutit ever since.
Well, you have a happy and inthat it stimulated a whole lot
of listener reaction andfeedback.
The stuff itself wasundrinkable, but that's that's

(28:36):
neither here nor there well, butthat's.

Mike (28:38):
I think dave morris has it right, though we need to move
on yeah yeah, right all right.

Well, that's all there is from the, from the dms
folks.

Mike (28:48):
We appreciate the email.
A little light this month so Ihope you guys are busy.
Maybe be less busy in thecoming month.
If you're less busy in thecoming month, you can send us an
email at plastic model mojo atgmailcom.
That's the email side of things.
Or you can direct messagethrough facebook or you can use
the feedback web link in theshow notes of this and every
episode.
So we've got like three avenuesof contact for for listener

(29:12):
mail now and we really love thissegment.
It's a little light this month,unfortunately, but that's the
way it goes sometimes, Dave.

Yeah.

Mike (29:19):
Hopefully we'll make up for it in the coming coming
month or so.

Folks, when you're done listening to this
episode, if you have not alreadydone so, please go and rate the
episode on whatever podcast appyou're listening to.
Also, please recommend us toyour friends.
The best way for us to continueto gain new listeners and we
are continuing to gain newlisteners is for you to tell a

(30:04):
friend who doesn't listen topodcasts or doesn't listen to
this podcast.
Recommend us, help them if theyneed help, to show them how to
begin.
And we continue to grow, andyou all are the reason why.

Mike (30:18):
Well, in addition to rating us through your podcast
app, we have a new way to dothat as well.
Not just an email link, we havea ratings web link.
You can also find the shownotes to this episode and every
episode.
You can use that link to leavea review and rate us one through
five stars.
We appreciate five stars, weappreciate a text review of the
podcast, and all that helps usachieve the things that Dave

(30:39):
just mentioned.
Once you've rated the podcast,please check out the other
podcasts out in the model sphere, and you can do so by going to
wwwmodelpodcastcom.
It's model podcast plural.
It's a consortium website setup with the help of Stuart Clark
from the Scale Model Podcast upin Canada.
He's aggregated all the bannerlinks to all the podcasts in the
model sphere, so you've got aone-stop shop there to go check

(31:01):
out all the other great contentin the model sphere.
We've also got a lot of blogand YouTube friends.
We've got Model Airplane Maker,mr Chris Wallace, a great
YouTube channel, a great blog,mostly 48-scale aircraft.
Go check that out.

Yeah, he just dropped a new video Evan
McCallum Panzermeister36.

Mike (31:21):
If you want to know about weathering and building armor,
that's going to be a good placefor you to go.
And the occasional HO scalerailroad car as well.
Happy birthday, evan.
It's Evan's birthday.
Happy birthday, evan.
In addition to that, you cancheck out SpruPi with Fred
Stephen Lee A great blog, longand short form content, 70
second scale centric and alittle model railroad stuff

(31:42):
there as well.
Steve's always got somethinggood going on, so please check
that out.
And we got Dr Paul Budzik ScaleModel Workshop.
Always some good philosophy,always some good build content
with what Paul's doing.
You can find that at Patreonand on YouTube, so please check
out Paul's Scale Model Workshop.
And finally, jeff, we're goingto let you talk about the Inch.

(32:03):
I Got blog and what's going on.
What's up over there?

Well, I had a milestone.
A couple of weeks ago I got myone millionth blog visit.
Took six years to get there.
I don't know if this is a goodthing or a bad thing, but I
finally crossed the one millionvisits.

That's pretty good.
So what have you recently beenfeaturing?

Well, I had one this week that got a lot of
attention.
I was a little surprised.
I did it as kind of a researchpost for somebody that asked a
specific question.
But I started researching themarkings for the Japanese
carrier aircraft that raidedPearl Harbor and how to decipher
those Right and I thought thatwas a little more well-known

(32:48):
than it turned out it was, and Igot a lot of really positive
feedback and a lot of interestfor that post.

What's nice is you're right, that information's
out there, but, to be honestwith you, it's scattered around.
And what you did was you verynicely summarized in a very
short blog post everything youneed to know to do any
particular aircraft off anyparticular carrier, and at least

(33:18):
what the you know tail codesand such should be for it.

Yeah, the Japanese had a system that was pretty
straightforward once you have itexplained what it consisted of,
but they had markings thatidentified the carrier division,
that the aircraft was assignedto the individual carrier, and
it's one of those things that'sright there in front of your
face.
Once you know what's going on,you can see it and you can look

(33:44):
at that plane and say, yeah,that's from the Akagi or Zuakaku
or I'll get it out eventuallyany of those, and it generated a
lot of interest.
So that was what was on theblog this week.
That kind of resonated.

Mike (33:59):
Well, that's great.
Where can folks find your blogagain?

Inch High Guy at WordPress.
Yep, just Inch High Guy atWordPress.

Yep, just Google Inch, high Guy, and you will
find it immediately.
Yeah.

And we'll link it.

Yes.
Finally, if you are not amember of your national IPMS
organization, please join thenational organizations.
Do a lot for modelers in theircountries, much of it invisible
to the naked eye, and it's allvolunteer modelers who are
giving up part of their modelingtime to try and make modeling

(34:35):
better.
Also, if you are a armormodeler or post-1900 figures
modeler, amps, the ArmorModeling Preservation Society,
is a great organization.
Mike and I have been attendingsince almost the beginning, with
some big gaps in there.

(34:56):
We were able to attend lastyear at their national and we've
already got plans to attend thenational this year.
Highly recommend it and greatgroup of guys.
So join the organization if youhave any interest in that.

Plastic Model Mojo is brought to you by
Model Paint Solutions, yoursource for harder and steam back
airbrushes, david Union powertools and laboratory-grade
mixing, measuring and storagetools for use with all your
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Check them out atwwwmodelpaintsolutionscom.

Mike (35:40):
Well, folks, it's Shop Talk time again, and it's nice
to have you, Jeff, in the thirdchair.

Well, thanks for having me.

Mike (35:46):
Well, you're welcome.
We've got some topics here andlooking forward to this because
I know, especially since you'vejust been to a show, we've got
some stuff to talk about thatcoming up, but lots of good
stuff here, so we'll get rollinghere in just a second.
Well, the first topic I want toget in on and I'm sure Dave

(36:07):
does too oh yes, Some recentstuff that went down Modern
weathering and scenery productsand our experiences with those
and kind of what we think ofthem at a high level, even a
detailed level, I don't care.
There's a lot of this stuff outthere.
Some of it's really good, Someof it's really good, Some of it
is maybe not.
And have we used it?

(36:29):
Have we not used it?
Let's just talk about it.
So who are we starting with?
Dave?

Well, let me start way back in the olden
times, when dinosaurs roamed theearth, roamed the earth and any
groundwork was done withcellulose clay and static grass

(36:58):
and that's basically all therewas in the world and dirt from
your yard and dirt from youryard and maybe some roots
repurposed as trees and therewas dioramas were not nearly as
popular as they are now.
Groundwork bases were notnearly as popular and a big part
of that probably had to do withhow difficult it was to pull

(37:20):
off, because if you wanted to dogroundwork, you really were
doing a lot of it with stuffthat was repurposed for making
that groundwork.
Now, as I've said, we live inthe golden age of modeling and

(37:42):
that includes diorama products.
There are all sorts of productsto replicate any particular
type of soil or groundwork orstones and instead of just
static grass, there are thesescenery products with pre-done

(38:02):
tufts, scenery products withpre-done tufts, with flowers,
with all pre-made, so that youcan generate a really, really
nice groundwork scene with much,much less effort, maybe a
little more expense, because youhave to buy all these products.
Now I recently, with theMoosaroo, had some experience

(38:26):
for the first time with a coupleof them, with a couple of the
AK Groundwork products and Iwill tell you they are really,
really good products.
They work as advertised up to apoint.
It takes some experimentation,just like anything else in
modeling does, but they do workas they're advertised to work,

(38:49):
other than the drying times thatthey tell you on the products.
At least in the experience withboth the beach sand and the
transparent water that Iutilized and then, talking to
John Bonanni, he had a similarexperience with their resin

(39:10):
water product the drying timesare massively longer than what
they say on the jars.
They say 18 to 24 hours and Iput on thin layers of both the
beach product and thetransparent water.

(39:32):
The transparent water took afull six or seven days to dry
completely.
Wow.
Now, when it did, it driedcompletely clear, just as
advertised.
It works just as advertised.
You can build it up in layers,you can make waves, there's all
sorts of things you can do withit, but do not believe that

(39:56):
you're going to be able to do itas quickly as the product says.
I think that's probably truefor a lot of these things is.
They tell you on theinstructions what they believe,
but you've got to experiment andsee what actually works, and

(40:18):
you know these groundworkproducts are going to make you
get better quicker, but it's notgoing to make you night shift,
overnight.
You still have to spend thetime.

Mike (40:31):
Jeff, you use any of this stuff, either weathering or any
of these effects.

I do some weathering stuff.
I don't get into the specificproducts as much.
It's like the old saw about thepaint.
Everybody's got a paint line.
It seems like everybody's gotmud and everybody's got rust and
everybody's got a jar of stuffthey swept up off their garage
floor.
I don't know where they'regetting this stuff, but
everybody will sell you jarafter jar of this stuff.

(40:56):
I don't use a lot of it.
I mean, dave was going backinto the prehistoric times and
I'll go back to theneopaleolithic.
When I was in middle school myschool library got the old model
railroader magazine.
Yeah, and I'm sure everybodymike you probably still have
them all.
But I went to the schoollibrary and I'd read those

(41:18):
things cover to cover and one ofthe staples in there was the
Woodland Scenics product linewhich is still out there and
still available and you can gettheir layout box which has
enough different foams andfoliage and grass products and
earth products and stuff to do.
I think it's a four by eightsheet of plywood for a layout

(41:40):
and I've got one of those boxesand I will never run out of that
stuff.
So if I want a tree, I'll I'lldo the trick of strands of wires
and make my tree and and beefit up a little bit and put the
the leaf foam on that and thegrass and that is perfectly
convincing in 72nd scale forjust about any scene you want to

(42:04):
do as far as ground work forarmor or base for an aircraft or
that kind of thing.
Outside of that I weather withsome very basic products.
I use oils, I use the TamiyaPaneline colors I've got some of
those.
I've got some AK mud effectsfor dirtying up tracks and that
sort of thing.
And I have some cheap dollarstore mascara pens and eyeliners

(42:30):
and stuff and that is reallygreat for making rust streaks or
oil streaks or that kind ofthing.
And if you're doing it over agloss base and you mess up, you
get some mineral spirit and youcan thin it out and you can draw
the streak out or you can eraseit entirely with any of those
products.
So they're very forgiving andyou can perfect your techniques

(42:52):
a little bit with that kind ofthing.
You can also use it to shadepanels.
I've seen no need to get yetanother paint drawer full of
once a month use kind ofmaterial.

Now with those Tamiya panel liners, do you use
them straight from the bottle ordo you dilute them at all?

I shake them up good and then I let them sit a
little bit, so they're kind ofself-diluting.
And then, when you get down towhere the brush just hardly
won't reach anymore, you've gota very thick mixture and you can
thin it.
At that point you have to makesure that you're not using a
very aggressive thinner on that,or you'll just wipe your paint
back off again.
Exactly.
Yeah, it's something to watch.

(43:31):
I've made that mistake morethan once.

We all go through negative modeling.
If you don't go throughnegative modeling, you're not
modeling enough.

Yeah, and learning how to correct your negative
modeling.
The guys that throw their modelaway when they screw it up
never get to the decal stage, sothey never get to learn the
joys of decaling.
But, you've and my myphilosophy is you've almost got
to finish a model once you'vestarted it with very rare
exceptions or use it as alearning experience of nothing

(44:01):
else.

Right, I agree.

What about you?

Mike (44:05):
Mike, I've not used a lot of the scenery products, but I
got into the MIG ammo.
I think they're the splattereffects which are essentially
really heavily pigmented enamelpaints and I really like using
them and I think they're likeyou said you've got an undercoat
gloss or satin of some kind andyou're using these enamel

(44:29):
products and mineral spirits ontop of that, so they're very
forgiving.
Where these things drive menuts and part of it's the
product and, admittedly, part ofit is the rate at which I
complete models.

I know where you're going.

Mike (44:45):
These things just dry up in those little plastic jars
faster than anything I've everexperienced.
I've got 40-year-old Pactra and40-year-old Humble paint in my
collection of materials that isas good as the day it was made
and they're metal tens orthey're little glass bottles or

(45:07):
plastic bottles with good lidson them, hard plastic bottles,
but these things in theirpolyethylene or polypropylene
bottles with their little snapring caps on them and stuff.
Once you open those things yougot maybe six months on some of
those before it's just this rockhard and maybe you can
reconstitute it with mineralspirits.

(45:27):
I don't know.
I think probably at some pointyou could, you could do that.
But once, once you go down thatroad, it's never going to be
the same as it was designed.
You know, right came, came outof the bottle, right, it's going
to be something thinner orthicker than that, depending on
how much you dilute it.
That's kind of been my peevewith some of those things is
that their shelf life is justnon-existent.

Right, and I've heard some of the same thing
regarding some of the sceneryproducts, some of the different
types of mud or whatever, fromthe different manufacturers, and
I'm not singling anyone outthat once you open them, that
they don't, they don't stay inthe same state for very long.

(46:16):
So it's either a use it or loseit.
Proposition.

Mike (46:21):
Now, some of that stuff I'm sure you could open up and,
you know, spritz some water inthere or whatever and humidify
it Right.
But you know who wants, whowants to manage to manage their
stock, their paint and finishstock.
I mean, really it's hard enoughto manage your kit collection
and your current projects.

Yeah.

Mike (46:39):
I don't think that's a route most folks want to take
and admittedly, again, that's,you know, some of the problem is
my pace.
So, realizing that, I wouldrecommend not buying that stuff
on a whim Right that you mightyou, you, you might use it.

Right.
Buy it only when you have aproject and you are at the phase
where you need that product.

Mike (47:03):
Yeah, or very near the, the, the finished phase, where
you're going to use it.
So you know I'm working on thisKV-85.
We'll get into it a little bitlater but you know I don't know
that any of the stuff I've gotfor these MIG splashes products
are going to be any good to use.
If I want to use that kind ofstuff, I'm going to go buy them
again, which is a littledisappointing, but you know I

(47:26):
could always build faster.

Yes, you, it's a little disappointing, but I
could always build faster.
Yes, you can talk to Jeff aboutthat after the show.

He can explain to you how that works.
Well, it is frustrating, though, and if you do anything to
alter that at all, you riskopening a pencil eraser the next
time it's going to be onegelled mass down there and
totally unusable.

Mike (47:48):
Well, that's true as well.
That's why I never pour thinpaint back into the bottle.

Yeah, no, never.
You just don't know what'sgoing to.

Mike (47:57):
Well, I know what's going to happen.
It's not going to be good.

The one exception I have found to that, mike, is if
you're using Mr Color and youuse nothing but Mr Color,
thinner.

Yes.

Yeah.

That stuff seems to last in its thin state for
six, eight months.

That's the only brand of paint, the only paint
line I've ever personally usedand admittedly I haven't used
them all, but that's the onlyone that I get to see the bottom
of that bottle clear at the endof that bottle.
I've used every drop out ofthat I can get out of it and I
think the trick is the unicorntears.
You just always thin with thatand if you have mixed just that

(48:36):
and nothing else in there, youcan put it back in that bottle
and it doesn't affect it in anynegative way at all.

It just once thinned, it stays thinned
without having any negativeeffects, as opposed to enamel
paint.
Once you thin it, it staysthinned without having any
negative effects, as opposed toenamel paint.
Once you thin it either turnsit into jelly or you get a rock,
a separation with a rock hardbottom.
So yeah, no, I completelyendorse that.

In the old testers model master line.
I don't know what it was, butthey do something in their blue
pigment specifically.
If you open that bottle and gotany on the lip where the
threads are and tighten it backdown again, you need channel
locks to open that thing again.
If you can open that bottleever again, it is super glue.
For some reason it glues thatsucker shut.

Mike (49:32):
I cracked a couple of bottles trying to open them with
channel locks.
Yes, so for me my bench, I'mnot like deeply invested in any
of this stuff.
I'd be curious what ourlisteners have done and what
your experiences are.
Honestly, I'm a littlereluctant to to get deeply
invested.
I think the the better approachis to get it when you know
you're going to use it.
Yeah, yeah.

I would agree.

Mike (49:50):
Unless you have a planned experiment that you're going to
use it before then, which I'vedone.
I did that quite a bit with oneof my little Airfix Bofors and
Morris truck we keep talkingabout.
That won't go away.
I spent a lot of timedeveloping the scenery
formulation for that little base.
I put it on but you know I'mnot so sure that was bought

(50:13):
product anyway, I think I cameup with all that on my own.

Well, and that is one thing I would urge you
Again, don't buy the producttill right before you need it,
because you never know howquickly it's going to go bad.
You never know how quickly it'sgoing to go bad.
But additionally, before youactually use it.
If this is the first time youhave used that product,
experiment, I mean I'll go backto what Steve tells us all the

(50:40):
time.
He spends 50% of his timeexperimenting before doing
something to make sure that heknows how to do it when he does
it for the actual modelingapplication.
So I would urge you, if you'regoing to use one of these
products you've never usedbefore, experiment with it when

(51:03):
you get it.

Mike (51:05):
Well at risk of a tangent here, when you get it Well at
risk of a tangent here.
Jeff, do you experiment much.
You build a lot.

I have some test panels from some old kits that
are misshapen, let's put it thatway, that were never quite
right, and I will test my paintsand that sort of thing on it.
My build rate is such that Ikind of am in the groove because

(51:32):
I've just airbrushed last monthto do the last group and that
sort of thing.
The one time where I reallyfelt it is when I did the
Akitsushima the sea plane tenderthat I did.
I really got out of practicebecause that build drug out so
long.
It was kind of novel toairbrush again and I did have to
learn how to tune up theairbrush and tune up the paint
mixture and tune up thepressures and all that.

(51:53):
So yeah, if I see the skillswaning in anything, I always
have a test panel before I do anairbrush session to dial in
that particular color, thetemperature of the house that
day, the paint mixture, all thethings that the guys that have
formulas will tell you to do.
I find it so subjective I haveto do it each time to dial that

(52:15):
airbrush in.
So I test in that situation.
If I'm doing a new sceneryproduct in particular, I will do
a small one-by-one panel orsomething like that.
But most of this stuff I prettymuch know how it's going to
behave.
I use the Mr Color paint.
I know how they're going toreact to things.
I use Mr Surfacer primer.

(52:37):
I know how that's going toreact.
So that stuff's all in myrelatively recent experience and
I don't have to experiment Now.
I do want to do some watereffects.
I've got a couple things comingup that projects in the back of
my mind that I really want toget good at and that I will
probably do half a dozendifferent variations.

(53:01):
I've got a transparent colorthat I want to put on some A5M
clods they had this clear goldenvarnish on the dash fours in
that series and I have got, Ithink, three different products
that I bought this week to teston test panels to see which one

(53:21):
gives me that golden sheen thatI'm looking for.
So if it's something I've neverdone before no experience yeah
I'll test that.
If it's something that's verysubjective, like getting your
airbrush mixture just right forthat little loofah squiggle or
whatever, absolutely I will behitting a test panel on that

(53:41):
before I even get near mysubject.
But for the most part I'm in apattern with products I'm used
to using and I may not testeverything every time.

Mike (53:54):
Well, that makes perfect sense.

Yeah.

Mike (53:56):
I think that's pretty much in line with his philosophy.

Lesson is build faster.

Well, there's no substitute for practice,
Practice practice, practice,that is absolutely true.

Substitute for practice Practice, practice,
practice.
That is absolutely true.

Mike (54:12):
Well, this one ought to be timely, and we've talked about
this offline At least Dave and Ihave and I think you and Dave
have Kind of the current stateof model shows, particularly in
the United States, becausethat's the ones we're familiar
with and I think mostly ourexperience is in our region.
Dave and I are going to some ofthe bigger shows with podcasts,
but I'm not sure where we wantto take this one other than Dave

(54:36):
.
I'll let you start off withthis one.

This whole subject came about when Inch and
I were at the show in Columbusand we were standing in the
lobby of the show at about ohright after one o'clock.
We had hit the vendor rooms, wehad hit the model rooms.

(54:58):
We'd had some really niceconversations with a couple of
modelers in the model roomsprior to them closing it for
judging in the model rooms,prior to them closing it for
judging, and we went to lunch.
We came back and it was just alittle after one and the vendors

(55:20):
were already starting to packup.
And Inch and I have bothnoticed that at a lot of shows
now you're seeing vendors who'llget there right as the show
opens at nine, but they're notgoing to hang around till three

(55:40):
or four when the judgingfinishes and awards come, and it
almost seems like they areleaving earlier and earlier.
And, in addition, we weretalking about these shows that
have the model room closed forjudging as opposed to open while
judging is occurring and thedifferent effects that it has,

(56:03):
discussing having display-onlytables and people having access
to their models throughout theshow.
So if you were doingdisplay-only and wanted to leave
early you know 2 o'clock orwhatever that you could go in,
get your stuff, have access toit, and that might encourage

(56:25):
more participation and thatmight encourage more
participation.
So Inch and I had just a reallygreat conversation at Columbus,
just 15 or 20 minutes, on thissubject year.
We have seen more and moreshows going to an open judging

(56:49):
system with gold, silver andbronze, with no categories
really and no limits on theawards that are given and the
pluses and minuses of that aswell.
So basically I wanted to openit up to a discussion of all of
those topics.
Let's start with vendors Now.

(57:20):
It's interesting that you noted, jeff, that at Indianapolis you
didn't see quite as manyvendors leaving quite as early.

Yeah, and that was noteworthy because it was an
exception.
You generally do see that, andat this show maybe it was a rain
, I don't know.

I was wondering if, maybe, if it was the rain.

Yeah, and it may have been that there were, like
I said, there were three guysthere with estates and they had
four or five tables each andthey were full of models and
those guys probably didn't wantto take that stuff home.
So they're trying to move asmuch of that as they can, but I
would say probably at the indieshow at least 80% of the vendors
hung in there until the end ofjudging, and that's an exception

(57:58):
anymore.

That is.
That really is Because atColumbus they were streaming out
by 115, 120.
You know, and a related thingis, you know, a number of years
ago we had the individual orcompany that was coming in and
buying all of the kits on somevendors' tables early.

Yes, yes, they would clean the vendor's room
out for you before 10 o'clock.

And luckily, because that particular person
stopped doing that for whateverreason, and nobody else seems to
have taken that up, thatproblem seems to have gone away.

Mike (58:40):
Everett, the attorney.

I'm not going to say things that will get us in
trouble.

If you read the vendor's I don't know the
vendor's statement from theindie show, it said that they
will enforce not selling yourtables before noon and if you
did sell your tables, you wouldnot be welcome back to any more
of their shows.

As a vendor, yeah , and that's about the only
sanction, that, because a showcan't prevent a willing buyer
and a willing seller from makingthat transaction whenever they
want.
So, yeah, that is really allthey can do is say if you do
that you're not going to bewelcome back, we're not going to
sell you tables in the futurenow?

Mike (59:22):
do they have the same, the same situation for folks who
just didn't sell out but justpack up and leave when they feel
like it?
Not to my knowledge.

No, you're.
You're free to pack up andleave whenever you want.
Now, obviously that kind ofmakes the guys who put on the
show unhappy if their vendorsare leaving early.

Mike (59:43):
It should Right, especially during the judging
time, especially if you haveclosed judging Exactly.
We'll get that in a minute.
But you know, in my militarycollecting hobby I haven't in
the last couple of years butI've been a frequent attender,
or almost perennial attender, tothe Ohio Valley Military

(01:00:03):
Society Show of Shows.
It's in Louisville, kentucky.
It's a huge military show.
The vendor tables, it's you,you know, it's north of a
thousand, it's a a big, big show, right, yeah, and this, the
vendor tables sell out everyyear and there's a waiting list
and their method of enforcementis if you pack up and leave

(01:00:25):
before 3 pm on saturday now theshow is vendor set up on
Wednesday and there's somehaggling, buying and trading
with the OVMS, membership lifemembers et cetera, on Wednesday,
A little bit, not much.
And then Thursday, thursdaymorning is the show but the
general public doesn't get inuntil I want to say Friday

(01:00:47):
morning, I don't know if that'sright or not and then there's
Saturday and then there's Sunday.
Sunday is kind of the lastvestiges of folks who have a lot
of tables, who want to taketheir time to pack out and get
out of there on their ownschedule.
But the table sellout if youpack up and leave before 3 pm on
Saturday, because they'veadvertised this show nationwide

(01:01:08):
that it's going to be openduring these hours Right Now.
This is a lot bigger thing thanthe IPMS Invitational, but I
think some of this could stillbe put into play.
What I'm getting at is, if youdon't honor that agreement, the
tables sell out every year.
There's a waiting list.
Every year you lose yourautomatic renewal privilege for
the next year.

(01:01:29):
If you leave before threeo'clock, you go, you go the back
of the line.
Wow, you may.
You may or may not get a table.
Yeah, you know, because theydon't want the the negative
impact on the society of folkscoming in who are not
necessarily members or memberscan only come for one day.
Coming in there on saturday andyou know 25, 30, 40, 50% of the

(01:01:51):
tables have already packed upand left Right.
It's not a good look.
So I understand what RoscoeTurner is doing there.
I just wonder if it how itspills over into folks just
packing up and leaving when theywant.

Jeff Groves (01:02:03):
Yeah Well, we've seen something similar.
I've seen this at several shows, where you will get a member of
the public, usually a mother,and she has three small boys in
tow and she shows up to the showafter lunch at one o'clock.
Now we all have in our flyersand everything said that the
show is from nine to four, rightto four, right, Yep, I mean,

(01:02:25):
that's the typical hours.
If you look at any of theseflyers they'll say nine to four
or nine to three or somethinglike that.
The mother with the kids thatshows up at one o'clock.
What has she got?
She sees the vendors packing upin a closed model floor.

Kentucky Dave (01:02:42):
Yeah.

Mike (01:02:42):
Where's the show?
Which brings us to the nextpart of this is the closed model
floor.

Yeah, I understand why it's done.
You know people talk about howpeople never change their minds,
that once you have a belief,it's always a belief.
I'm coming to change my mind ona number of things.
Oh well, I'm not going to gofull Jim Bates and say that we
ought to eliminate contests andjust do display-only shows.

(01:03:12):
I do think emphasizing displayover competition would probably
be a good thing.
I don't want to eliminate thecompetition.
People like it, people enjoydoing it, but I think there is
growing room for people who notleast I mean just the crowds

(01:03:49):
themselves are a problem.
But then you have the problemof the guy who wants to hover
around while you judge his modeland then wants to take issue
with whatever criticism was madeof it.
And so I understand why closedjudging has been done, but I do
think it has to die.
I really think that, to combatboth vendors leaving early and

(01:04:17):
the problem Inch talks about,about people coming later and
then not really having access tothe show I think that the
judges are going to have tosimply sack up and understand
we're going to judge with peoplearound us and we're just simply
going to have to deal with it.

(01:04:38):
Slash, ignore it.
We went to HeritageCon.
Heritagecon, not only were thetables not sealed off during
judging, the crowds wereenormous, enormous to the point
where it was hard to get downthe aisles at times, until later
in the afternoon.

(01:04:59):
But they managed to get theirjudging done with the crowds
there and they seem to have noproblem doing it.

Mike (01:05:08):
So I am more we had at least a handful of friends who
were judging yes, who offered nocomplaints about the crowd
encouraging on what they'retrying to do Exactly.
So the existence theorem isthere that that will work, and
if somebody says it's not, it'sjust not true.

Right.
Well, and, like I said, Iunderstand why it was done,
because you have the occasionalpain in the butt person who
hovers while you judge theirstuff.

Now at HeritageCon.
It worked in Canada andCanadians are well known to be
at least 20% less pains in thebutts than Americans, so that
may have been a fact.

Well, but there are a fair number of Americans
at HeritageCon.

Mike (01:05:59):
The handful of friends were almost universally
Americans.

Americans, that's true.
Maybe my thesis is void.

Mike (01:06:08):
I don't know if it's void, but it's subject to challenge.
There you go.

And, like I said, I think that we can't make life
miserable for everybody to dealwith the people who are being
to fight the judges because hedidn't get his little piece of
plastic, you know, or plaque orwhatever.

(01:06:32):
It's not worth making everybodyelse's experience worse to deal
with that person.

The first lesson of going to a model contest is the
contest.
Judging is subjective.

Exactly.
Well, that's a whole notherthing that people don't want to
deal with.

I have personally taken models to shows that have
not placed in the category andthe next show have gotten one of
the higher awards for the showwith that same model, doing
nothing to it in the interim.
It's just the competition wasbetter at the first one, or the
judge saw a flaw at the firstone that the guys at the second
didn't, and you got to take thehighs with the lows.

Exactly, exactly.
And I think also that, if youto segue into what Mike and I
have been talking about with thejudging system, well, hang on.

Mike (01:07:28):
I wanted to make one more point.
Go ahead.
Maybe you remember but it waspre-Plastic Model Mojo, but it
was at a Cincinnati show, wewere both at that somebody was
trying to influence the judgesfrom outside the closed barrier
of the model room.
Yes, so it doesn't necessarilywork that way.
Yes absolutely true.

(01:07:49):
If you got one, if you got thatguy at your show, he's going to
be a pain in the ass, no matterwhat.
Closing the model area is notgoing to isolate you from the
duress of folks who want to makesure.

You know he painted the dials on his
Focke-Wulf 190 or whatever,Whatever brother sure you know
he painted the dials on hisFocke-Wulf 190 or whatever.
But I do want to segue into thejudging system issue one, two,
three versus an open system,because I do think that an open
system lends itself a littlemore to judging, with the model

(01:08:28):
room being open because of thefact that judging can begin as
soon as models hit the table,that judging teams can be out
there as models are being placedout earlier.
And it has a dual effect.
One, a lot of judging can takeplace before the crowds get

(01:08:48):
there, so you don't have quitethe concern about hoverers.
But also because a lot of stuffgets judged before the end of
entry, you can actually holdentry open later, which may give
more people an incentive tocome to your show if they think

(01:09:11):
that they can make it and makeit and get their model entered
before registration closes.
And in addition, it helps onthe other end in that your
judging is done quicker becauseyou've already judged 90% of the
stuff on the table, or 75% orwhatever percentage, pick your

(01:09:33):
number You've judged thatpercentage of the stuff on the
table before registration closed.
So instead of doing a promisingawards at 3.30 and not starting
them till 4 and not gettingthem done till 4.30,.
You can wrap up judging by 2.30, actually get the awards

(01:09:59):
started at 3 and people can beout the door by 3.30.
And you know again, if you makeyour show more accessible by
holding registration openearlier and finishing judging
and awards earlier, that expandsthe circle of miles that people

(01:10:24):
can travel to your show andstill get the maximum level of
enjoyment out of it.

I'd agree with that .

So, and I don't, I'll be honest with you, I have
no particular preference of one,two, three over open, as far as
I don't really care whatjudging system is used.
I mean, they're both, they'reall subjective and they each
have their pluses and minuses.
But you know, I do think Mikeand I are seeing I think Mike

(01:10:55):
would agree a general trendtoward open system shows I don't
know what it is.

Mike (01:11:01):
I don't know if there are more of these shows that existed
that we've been just luckinginto when we do the model show
spotlights.
That's possible.
It is possible.
I don't know that I believe it.
Or are more folks convertingthis?
We've been in the podcast.
Now we're in our fifth season,so a lot of this could have come

(01:11:24):
about in the time we've beendoing the podcast.

I'm trying to think if anybody in Region 4 does an
open system.

Well, I know Pittsburgh does, they have
forever.

Okay.

Louisville used to, but does not anymore.

Well, that's an interesting thing to explore.

Mike (01:11:42):
What do you think, Jeff?
Do you have a preference?

I've never been judged or participated in an
open system venue.
That's why I'm trying to rackmy brain.
If I've ever actually seen itin practice, I think that the
judges, the people in charge ofjudging, should probably have
final say.
If there is such a prevalenceof people interfering in

(01:12:05):
whatever way, then I think theyneed to be shielded from that
while they're trying to look atthe models.
Definitely.
The downside, of course, is youare basically in one sense
ending the display half of theshow at noon, because you never
get that back.
Once they announce awards,everybody floods a room and the
models go back in the cases andthe parking lot empties.

(01:12:27):
Likewise at noon, the vendorsarea.
Fortunately at Roscoe Turner itdidn't, but often it starts
shutting down right around lunchsometime as well, and I was
wondering if there might be room, and Dave kind of hit on this.
The European shows have a wholeother hall full of special

(01:12:48):
interest groups.
They're either modelers withshared interests that converge
on the show and they're allinterested in Japanese aviation.
So you get guys from fourdifferent clubs that show up and
they all have one big longtable and they bring all their
Japanese subjects or whatever.
Or you know Stoogs and now youhave a table full of Stoogs and
there's three guys back theretalking Stoogs.
And now you have a table fullof Stoogs and there's three guys

(01:13:09):
back there talking Stoogs allday and you know that's the Evan
McCallum table and everybodyhangs out there.
But if there's anything at allthat could you know, cause,
let's face it, after one o'clock, maybe two, even if the vendors
are there, you've seen, you'vebeen through the vendors room

(01:13:29):
three or four times the modelroom's still closed.
You're kind of hanging out andthere's a lot of people staring
at their phone or talkingamongst themselves or whatever.
I went to the show with MichaelSmith, a good friend of mine
from Muncie.
He's the curator for theAcademy of Model Aeronautics
Museum, which is an RC aircraftmainly organization, and he

(01:13:53):
asked me.
He said who would I talk to toget some tables for an
informational display about RCmodeling?
And I thought you know, there'ssomething to take up some of
that time and give someinteresting content for people
while they're waiting for thejudging to be over and while the
vendors are packing up and allthat.

(01:14:14):
So there's a whole otheropportunity of special interest
groups or somebody you knowgiving seminars or putting on
displays of some kind.
I don't know, you'd need moreroom for that, so there's a
problem there you'd need moreroom for that.

So there's a problem there, and that is
another thing that has gone awayfrom.
Back in the 80s and 90s, whenyou attended a model show, there
was almost always at aninvitational clearly at a
regional, which back then was atwo-day affair but even at many
invitationals there was one ormore seminars that were put on

(01:14:53):
on different subjects,everything from painting figures
or armor, weathering techniquesor whatever the anatomy of the
tiger tank or whatever ithappened to be.
Now, keep in mind I think a lotof that disappeared because of
YouTube.
That it used to be.

(01:15:15):
The only modeling tips youcould get were from pre-internet
days, were for members of yourown club, what you read in
magazines.
And then when you went to amodeling show in another city,
sitting in on the presentationthat was given, almost no matter
what it was, even if it wasn'tparticularly the thing that was

(01:15:40):
of interest to you, becausethose were the only channels to
learn new stuff, where now youcould go on YouTube and start
watching modeling videos andnever stop for the rest of your
life.

How do we know that , Dave?

Yeah, I'm guilty of that and, believe me, you're
not the only person to pointthat out, and, believe me,
you're not the only person topoint that out.
But I do think that doesn'tmean that having a presentation
at a show, having some sort oflive presentation, isn't still a
valuable thing to do, becausethe one thing that you don't get

(01:16:23):
with the Internet and YouTubeis interaction.

Yeah.

So if somebody's putting a presentation on and
they say, well, I do this thisway, you have the opportunity to
say why, or have you tried this, or does this work better than
doing that?
You have the interactivenesswhich isn't available from just

(01:16:49):
a pure YouTube presentation.
Now there are some live streamsthat actually do that, even in
modeling, but I don't think that.
I think we've given up thepresentation at the model show
too easily and I would like tosee it come back.

Mike (01:17:10):
Well, I want to go back and talk about the display only
a little bit.
Okay, I think it's great and,dave, you mentioned Jim's show
and his philosophy on that,which is it's all cool.
Whether we agree with itentirely or not, this is Mike's
opinion.
This Tiger Meat thing they'vestarted at Madison.
That's going to carry on now,right, and well, it's going to

(01:17:33):
be at Hampton and it's going tobe.
Hopefully we'll keep carryingon Fort Wayne and whatever's
next after that.
Honestly, it's good.
I don't debate that, but theconsternation around having to
provide essentially a secondvenue, right Right, to do this

(01:17:54):
is unnecessary.
Yes, completely agree.
If a contestant wanted to saythis is for display only, not to
be judged, all you need is adifferent colored piece of paper
under that model on the regularcontest table that the judges
would simply just pass it by.

Instead of an entry form, which is white with
all of the writing on it, youjust have a green piece of paper
with no writing on it oranything that sits under that
model, and the judges know.
Display only.
Yeah, display only, it doesn'thave to say anything.

Mike (01:18:30):
Yeah, and you know, admittedly that works until
they're inundated with displayonlys, right, and then you have
a different problem.
But but in the current, thecurrent flavor of things, I
think that works.
I, I completely, and you don't.
You don't need this, becausethe the, the beef that a lot of
folks have with this is thatthey're relegated to this

(01:18:53):
obscure corner of the show spacethat nobody's going to.
Maybe the lighting's not asgood or it's not getting the
traffic.
Yeah, and those are legitimatebeefs.

Yep, no, I completely agree, and I haven't
been to a national yet where thetables were so utterly full
that you couldn't have haddisplay models on there because
you were completely out of room.
Now they came a little close inSan Marcos, but even then there
was space on the tables fordisplay-only models.

Mike (01:19:30):
Madison could have easily absorbed what was in the
breakout area for Tiger Meat inthe main contest room.

Exactly, and I think it would have been better.
I mean not that they didn'thave a beautiful.
Frankly, the area where thedisplay models were which looked
out onto the lake was just.
It was tons more, tons moreattractive and well, it had a
lot more natural light.

Mike (01:19:55):
but exactly, but were folks going through there at the
same rate?
They're going through the modelroom?
Probably not.
I think that's thedifferentiator there, and I
right, and I think what Isuggest is one possible solution
to fix that and not have to ohGod, we have to have this other
area with all these extra tablesfor this.
No, you don't, no, you don't,you just put them with

(01:20:18):
everything else, just put themon the table.
And you have an indicator as towhat they are.

Anything that brings more models enhances the
show.

Mike (01:20:26):
Yeah, absolutely.

And I would love to see you guys do a great job.
At Louisville you allow sweeps,which I know some people just
hate the idea of one guy killinga category, but that encourages
everybody to bring multiples inthat category.

Yeah.

And you get more models on the table.
And you know Roscoe Turner hada flat fee.
It was 10 bucks to get in asmany models as you wanted to
bring and, like I said, the guyahead of me brought 18.
So you got to see 18 modelsfrom just that one guy and you
want as much of that as you can.
You want your model count to beup.
In my opinion, you want to goto a show with 900 models on the

(01:21:06):
table show with 900 models onthe table.

Yeah Well, and, by the way, taking that back to
an open system, if you go to anopen system as opposed to a
1-2-3, you don't have to worryabout sweeps versus no sweeps,
right Because each model isbeing judged on its own, and if
Steve Hustad's supermodelershows up with models in the

(01:21:30):
category that you normally enter, you don't have to worry about
whether it's a we're havingsweeps or no sweeps.

Well, if Steve Hustad shows up.

That solves your display-only problem right there
, because everybody else isdisplay-only at that point yeah
well, but you know I do is thatis something to consider.
I I would encourage everybodywho's putting on a model show.
There tends to be a situationwhere, once you start running a

(01:22:04):
successful model show and doingit year after year, you don't
ever think about changing itbecause it's working and the
attitude becomes it's working,why mess with it?
I would encourage every clubout there who is in that
situation.

(01:22:25):
When you come to do your nextmodel show, put everything on
the table.
Ask yourself, how are we goingto handle vendors?
Ask yourself, are we going toclose off the model room during
judging?
Ask yourself do we want to goto an open system versus one,
two, three, two, three?

(01:22:54):
Ask all of those questions,keeping in mind.
You want to make the model showas pleasant and fulfilling an
experience for your customers aspossible, and so any change you
can make to make theirexperience better's something
you should consider.

And I would include in that not only customers, as
the modelers, us guys thatalways go to the shows, but,
like I said earlier, the motherthat's bringing four potential
new modelers to see the modelshow for the first time and
shows up at one o'clock, yep,and what is her experience and

(01:23:31):
what is the experience of thosefour kids?
Yep, you know a closed modelroom and vendors pushing carts
out.

Yep, anything you can do to avoid that.

Yeah, and we have all said that the model shows
there till four.

Mike (01:23:48):
Well, we're going to get some feedback on that topic, for
sure.

Oh yes, Well good , that's what we want.
Healthy discussion Discussionis good.

That's right.

Mike (01:23:57):
Well, our third topic tonight comes from Steve
Anderson's A Guided Journal forModelers, and it's our thoughts
on bases and it's prettyopen-ended.
So we can talk about anythingabout bases that we want to talk
about.
So, Dave, I'm going to startwith you.

Oh well, let me, let me give you the one golden
rule If it's not a really welldone base, don't put it on a
base.
Okay, a a crappy base distractsfrom a model and I know
numerous examples that I couldcite of really, really nicely

(01:24:37):
done models where the modelermounted it on a piece of foam
core some last minute, half,whatever, ass yeah, I didn't
want to say it Display, and itactually detracts from the model
.
If you're not going to do areally well done base, don't put

(01:25:03):
a base down at all.
Put the model on the table.
Now, if you're going to put amodel on a base, make sure it's
a well-done base.
And you've got two choices.
You've got a terrain-style basewhere you know the aircraft is
sitting on a runway or a dirtrevetment or whatever.

(01:25:24):
Or you have the display basethat is not attempting to
replicate any natural terrainfeatures but is simply a
well-done, well-polished, evenlyfinished, complementary,
colored display base so that themodel sitting on it is enhanced

(01:25:46):
by the finished, thecompletedness of the base, just
raising it up, making it easierto handle if the model is
attached to the base.
So those are Dave's two laws.
Jeff, do you put you, don't putmost of your models on a base.

I, by the time I'm done with whatever batch I'm
working on, I've got the nextbatch is knocking at the door.
I kind of want to get on to thenext one.
A lot of times I do like bases.
I like the looks of them, Ilike the ability to put a figure
on the base to give the wholemodel scale.
What I see it shows.

(01:26:35):
That, I think, is the biggestproblem with bases is you have a
tendency for people to putwhatever subject they're putting
there and then they want tofill every square inch of the
rest of that base with somethinga discarded helmet, a discarded
weapon, a motorcycle, anothervehicle and you get these
unrealistic prime targets foryour artillery support or
whatever.
To take out eight tanks at oncebecause they're parked next to
each other.

(01:26:55):
You know that sort of thingParticularly.

You have that where somebody is doing a
diorama, so they're doing a basewith a purpose, and what many
modelers tend to do is they wantto just keep piling more and
more stuff on that base.
You know, more and more visualinterest.

(01:27:22):
Well, you know, let's put ahelmet here, let's put a bucket
there, a bucket there, and atsome point you reach not only
diminishing returns but youactually ease over into.
Every additional added itemdetracts from the model which is

(01:27:42):
supposed to be the main subjectof the diorama.

Yeah Well, the scene should be, I think, a lot
of times inspired by a picture,or at least typical of the
pictures that you're seeing tobe put back in.
Or you may see a mechanicworking on something on top of a
barrel, but you don't see threeCorsairs stacked next to each

(01:28:12):
other and a tow truck and a tankand scattered weapons laying
around in the dirt and that sortof thing.
But you can see that at a show.

Not to name check Mr Hustad again, which we're
going to have to start payinghim royalties if we continue to
reference him.
He works from photographs and Ithink one of the reasons he
does that is specifically toavoid the problem you're talking
about, because he's workingfrom a specific reproducing, a

(01:28:46):
specific photograph.
He knows, naturally, he's notgoing to have that problem.
Now, I don't think you have toalways work from a photograph,
but you ought to at leastfamiliarize yourself with a lot
of photographs of yourparticular main subject to
understand what the environmentaround them looks like.

Yeah, and what you're modeling should be
typical of what you're seeing inthe average photograph in my
mind.

Right yeah.

Mike (01:29:16):
Not the outlier, not the outlier Right Right.

Exactly, exactly.

Mike (01:29:21):
Dave, we talk bases amongst our chat group with our
Canadian modeler friends.
Yes, and we've had thisconversation a lot.

Endlessly on car rides.
For some reason, when we'retraveling to a show, this one
always comes up.

Mike (01:29:38):
So I'll get the big one out of the way, the easy one out
of the way first.
It's the elephant on a postagestamp.
Yes, you don't see this muchwith aircraft as you do with
armor Right.

Yes, you don't see this much with aircraft as
you do with armor Right, With anarmor subject.

Mike (01:29:51):
If you have running gear hanging off the edges of the
base, your base is too small.

Well now keep in mind what was it.
Shep Payne always emphasizedpeople not making the base so
much larger than the subject,Right, and I think people took
that advice and ran with it,maybe a little too far.

Mike (01:30:14):
I mean, if the track run up to the drive struggle or the
idler is hanging off the baseand the fenders are hanging off
a little, or the gun barrelshanging off the edge, that's
usually okay, right, that's theedge of where you ought to be.
Usually okay, right, that's theedge of where you ought to be.
But when you've got the firstroad wheel stations or the last
road wheel station hanging intospace yeah, this is my opinion

(01:30:39):
it does not look good.
You've got an elephant on athimble.

Right.

Mike (01:30:44):
That's the best analogy I can think of An elephant in a
little ballerina tutu standingon one toe on a thimble.
It's like Dumbo right, Right.
It just doesn't work.
It doesn't work.

Now and I do think Chep Payne was right you
don't want to go to the otherextreme where you see, these
people have a model that's maybeeight inches by eight inches
and they put it on a base that's16 inches by 16 inches.
So you've got the model in themiddle or somewhere around there
, but a whole lot of empty space.

Mike (01:31:20):
That's the opposite problem, that creates the exact
same problem, and I will grantthat I think aircraft models are
at a disadvantage here, becauseto get the entire airplane on
the base you're already too big.

Well, you should look at the footprint of the
wheels.
The wheel footprint should fitneatly on the base and the base
should act as a frame.

Mike (01:31:47):
Yeah, that's where I was going.
That's that that shouldestablish.
If it's not a diorama, if it'sjust a scenic base, that's kind
of where you want to be.
Yep, if it's, if it's wingtipto wingtip and and spinner to
tail, it's all on the base.
Man, that's a lot of base.

I see nothing wrong with the wings overhanging the
edge of the base, as long as allthe wheels are there and you
know, put your chocks on and putyour pilot standing in front of
it, and it's a nice lookingdisplay.

Almost every time , Right and well and keep in
mind keep in mind the subject.
If you've got a 72nd scalesingle engine fighter, you can
do a base that's wingtip towingtip and nose to tail or not
exactly nose to tail, butfirewall to tail and it'll look
perfectly fine.
If you've got a four-enginebomber or a 32nd-scale jet

(01:32:42):
fighter, if you do a base thatencompasses the entire
physicality of the aircraft,it's just going to get too
honking big, too quick.

Yeah, the base can detract from the whole display.

Yes, that's my point.
You mentioned that you don't domany bases because by the time
you get done with the modelyou're on to the next one and
you're already tired of it.
I think that is the majorcontributor to bad bases out
there.
Oh, I think you're right.
People finish the model andthey are tired of it, but they

(01:33:17):
feel like they've got to do abase and so they don't put the
effort that's needed to make ita good base and just make it a
good base and just make it slapsomething together.
And to me this is an argumentfor non-terrain bases.
For a lot of aircraft models youcan have a standard.

(01:33:38):
If you build 72nd scaleaircraft, you can have 72nd
scale single engine aircraft.
You can have a standard base.
This is the Jeff Grovesstandard base and you can have
four or five of those.
And then whenever you go to anyshow, you can put whatever

(01:34:01):
model you've recently finishedon that base and that base is
already a nice display style.
It's not terrain style but adisplay style base that presents
your model well.
Then when you're done at thatcontest, you put the models away
, you put the bases away andyou'll reuse those bases for the

(01:34:21):
next time with whatever new youfinish.

Well, and I will submit that what you and Mike
were discussing at the beginningof this episode with the bases
by Bill and their trim thing,they have done that for you.
I've got two of the Japanesecarrier bases sitting on my desk
as we speak.
They're the six-inch footprintand they happen to be Japanese
bases.
Any Japanese carrier aircraftcan fit on that base and look

(01:34:48):
perfectly at home right out ofthe box.

And you are exactly correct.
That's one of the reasons.
I think that what they're doingwith that inset now is
fantastic.
It will allow you, with almostno effort, to have a polished
presentation that will make yourmodel look better and more

(01:35:12):
visually interesting.
But the one thing that itreally does is it doesn't
detract from the model.
And that's the worst thing thatyou can commit.

You put one flight crew member standing in front of
it with his hand on the propand it's polished.
It's done.

Mike (01:35:28):
Yeah, and I'm like you I like having a single figure for
scale if I could only paintfigures better yeah, you and me,
but you and me both on thissame vein, one thing that's been
a I don't know if I call it apeeve or not, but it's just
something I wish I would seeless of.
There's some folks out therewho build some amazing models

(01:35:51):
and they build a lot of models,so typically the model itself is
not based.
So at home they have a displayor shelves or whatever full of a
lot of singular models that arenot on a base, but when they go
to the show they have a basethey put the model on.
That's a crappy base and thatmodel base is not to the same

(01:36:16):
caliber that the model has beenbuilt to.
Yep, absolutely, and kudos tothe judging teams who can look
past that.
I could not, yeah.

They're supposed to.
Technically they're supposed to.
They're not supposed to judgethe base.

Mike (01:36:31):
If you got a base that's got unpainted static grass on it
and that's your airfield basefor your entry, you could do
better.
Yes, your model is way betterthan that into two or three
really well done scenic basesthat have some bare patches,

(01:36:51):
some bare earth or some wheelchocks or something.

Yeah.

Mike (01:36:57):
That you can put any model on and have it look as good as
the model you put on it Right,would just go a whole lot
further to furthering your, yourentire presentation at a show.

Right, you've put so much effort into the model,
why hurt the visual appearanceyou want?
To make it attractive to theeye.

Mike (01:37:19):
It looks better.

Right.

Mike (01:37:21):
That's the whole point of it.
You've got this base.
You've put 35, 40, maybe anhour into Right, and this plane
you've got 108 hours in.
It's not a big.
It's that big a stretch to putconsummate time into the base.
It's just not Right.

And you don't have to do that every time.
Again, if you have a standardbase, either a presentation
style or a terrain style, youonly have to have a few of those
Right, exactly, so you don'thave to for every model you
finish.
Unlike Jeff Groves finishes abatch build of eight models, he
doesn't have to do eight newbases.

Mike (01:38:03):
Unless he takes them all to the same show.

Yeah, well, that's true, that's true.

Yeah, you're going to allow sweeps, I'm going to
need at least three for eachcategory.
Right there you go To have ashot at the sweep I don't know
if you do or not.
Yeah, and then you don't placewith any of them, so you're 0
for 3.

Mike (01:38:23):
So I just think bases it's like this constant thing.
It shows the ones that are toobig, the ones that are way too
small and the ones that detractfrom the subject that they're
presenting.

A.
We want your input on thissubject.
You do what you do with bases.
Take some pictures of just thebases and put them on the dojo
to let us see what you all aredoing and what you think about
what we've talked about.

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(01:39:25):
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Mike (01:39:44):
Well, guys, this is the Benchtop Halftime Report.
I hope we've all been buildingsomething.

I think we have.
I think we have.
Yes, we have.

Mike (01:39:58):
We're going to start with Jeff.
Jeff.
What's the current batch build?
What's the current Inch HighGuy blog post build going on
right now?

Well, as my typical style, I have managed to fill
the bench from one end to theother.
I've got eight japanese, mostlynaval subjects on the bench.
I've got a comparison build ofthree clods of fujimi, who who
out fine molds and no, no, uh,clear prop is the newest oh,

(01:40:31):
that's right.

Clear prop fujimi and aoshima nichimo, nichimo,
that's right nichimo.

When was the last time you heard that word nichimo
in the 80s?
Yeah, they're.
They're all a5m4s, right, right, the Nichimo.
I did this intentionally.
The Nichimo kit was released in1964.

Yeah.

The Fujimi was 91 and Clear Prop was 2022,
something.

It's a very recent kit, yeah.

To me it was interesting to compare how
things have evolved during thatperiod.
I mean, the Nichimo kit isalmost as old as I am and I was
shocked when I got to looking atthat thing.
It has got recessed panel linesand recessed rivets in 1964.

I was going to say for the time it was very
advanced.
It was not your typical 1964Frog or Airfix kit.

Yeah, now it's not finessed.
It doesn't have a cockpit, theengine looks like a washer that
you put your dishwasher togetherwith or something like that.
A lot of the details are kindof improvised and I don't know
if they just didn't have goodreferences then or not.
It's not nearly as finessed asthe later ones, but I was

(01:41:54):
surprised at what was there.
As far as surface detail goes,the Fujimi kit from 91 goes
together very well.
It's still a quality kit.
The ClearProp, of course, isjust incredible.
It's one of thestate-of-the-art kits.
It's got PE, it's got masks.
Surface detail is justincredible.
It's one of thestate-of-the-art kits.
It's got PE, it's got masks.
Surface detail is justexquisite.
The fit is some of the best fitI've ever seen on a kit.

(01:42:17):
But it's interesting to comparethose three.

Although the downside of the ClearProp kit is
the cost.

The cost and the complexity.
There are more parts in thecockpit of the ClearProp kit
than the entire box of the othertwo.

Mike (01:42:35):
Wow so mildly enjoyment for the dollar.

Well, that's one way to look at it.
I think there's a balancebetween ease of build,
buildability and detail Ease ofbuild, buildability and detail.
And I think you can go too farwith the detail at times,
especially when you startgetting into PE switches and
levers in your cockpit thatyou'll never see again, and you

(01:43:01):
know there's more of them in mycarpet than are in that cockpit.
I'll tell you that.

I hear you.

Yeah, I've also got two roof zero float Float
Planes on the bench.
They're the Hasegawa kit.
Hasegawa makes a great kit,everything you'd expect.
Those are coming along.
I've got two Fujimi Jills fromthe 1980s and you guys were
talking about the Albatross kitsin your last episode.
I have two of those kits, bothof which were Shelf of Doom kits

(01:43:29):
at one time or another.
I have no idea how old theoldest one is.
What I do remember distinctly isI broke the canopy on it and
had no way to fix or replacethat, so it was back in the box,
foul up, I scratch.
Built a cockpit and I managedto get it the wrong size and not

(01:43:49):
quite accurate.
I was going off some three viewwell, some perspective views in
McKesh's Japanese cockpit orJapanese aircraft interiors and
I could not wrap my head aroundwhat I was seeing.
You don't see the whole thingat once, but he's got it from
both sides.
And then you've got somepictures and I could not

(01:44:10):
reconcile the differences thereand I made a dog's dinner out of
that and got frustrated.
So it had to go away for awhile.
But I've ripped that cockpitout, built another one.
I'm back on the road again withthat At the last minute.
I added just one more, as I tendto do, and it's the Japanese

(01:44:32):
copy of the Kellett Autogyro.
Yes, the Kyuba Kyaba.
I'm not sure how theypronounced it, but it's an
interesting kit.
It's a fine molds kit, aninteresting subject.
It was actually used by theJapanese Army as an artillery
spotter and it flew off aJapanese Army aircraft carrier

(01:44:54):
in the anti-submarine role.

Can you explain to me why the Japanese Army has
an aircraft carrier and is doinganti-submarine work?

Well, it's kind of the situation the US found
itself in at the beginning ofthe war, the situation the US
found itself in at the beginningof the war.
The submarine problem hadgotten to the point where it was
so out of hand that anythingthat could carry anti-submarine
ordnance or serve in anobservation role was being
pressed into service.
I mean, we did the same thingwith the B-18 and various other
obsolete types, and if you're ina non-challenged aerial

(01:45:26):
environment you can get awaywith obsolete types looking for
submarines.

Well, and I was surprised at how many of those
were built and used by theJapanese.
I thought it was very, veryniche and there were a lot more
of those built than I hadthought.

Yeah, and the Japanese Army had developed a
landing ship that's very akin tothe LHAs and LHDs of today.
They had a floodable well deck.
They had a roll-off ramp thatcould be lowered down onto a
pier.
The floodable well deck couldhold, I think, 22 of the

(01:46:04):
14-meter Daihatsu landing craft.

Yep.

And it was made for amphibious assault.
Meter Daihatsu landing craft.
Yeah, and it was made foramphibious assault and the
aircraft deck was anafterthought and very useful for
light aircraft and theautogyros to conduct the
anti-submarine mission off of.
So it was basically a landingship.
Now most references willcategorize it as an aircraft
carrier, as an escort carrier ofsome type, but it was actually

(01:46:30):
originally intended as a landingship and had a well deck in it.
So that's my bench.

By the way, we do need somebody to do a new Judy
series.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

So, Mike, how about you.

Mike (01:46:43):
I've been working on a couple of things.
Man, the little flak panzer,yep, I've reprinted the fenders
for that.
I've got them on.
I've got them.
I've got the whole thing primedagain.
The lower basic hull assemblyhas been primed again.
I'm a prince for the thefenders.
I got some mold lines.
I'm trying to go back and use alot of dilute, mr surfacer 1500

(01:47:04):
yeah to to kind of mitigate someof that, and I'm only on my
second application of that.
It's working out pretty well.
We'll see if I can fill up thedefects, how much detail I have
left.
That'll be the challenge.
I think it's going to work outthough.
On the KV-85, it's all the justdetail work.

(01:47:25):
I've been working on the wholefront, the glacis and the front
fenders.
I've got the front fendersupports installed.
I've been working on the wholefront, the glacis and the front
fenders.
I've got the front fendersupports installed.
I've got a bunch of weld seamwork I've done on the bracketing
for the front fender supports.
It's just going to be aprogression, working from the
nose of the tank all the way tothe back to add all this stuff.

(01:47:48):
Tj Howler was giving me somegrief about not having it done
for amps.
It's not going to be done foramps and this is why it's just
all this tedium to get throughthis thing that you know it's a
typical project of my past, ifthat makes sense to you, dave.
It's a lot of work and it'sjust going to have to take my

(01:48:11):
time and work my way through it,but it's going to be the model
I want in the end.
You know, amps 2025, be damned,it's just going to.
It's going to get done when itgets done.

But it will be there for amps 2026.

Mike (01:48:23):
I'm not going to say that.

Oh yeah, you're good, you're building faster.
No, you are going to buildfaster.

Mike (01:48:33):
You're going to build faster, you've finished one this
year already, maybe I am Idon't know.

You're going to get some stuff done faster, so
am I.
That's part of how we getbetter, maybe.

Mike (01:48:43):
Yeah, that's my bench top.
What's yours doing, dave?

Well, mine is filled with a trio of F8Fs that
are all together it's a miniinch high build.
Trying to get at least two ofthese done for the nationals,
for our group display, theSeptember's group display.
The kits are together.
Now doing some, I'm going back.
I told Mike I was going superold school.

(01:49:10):
I was going back with somelight gray enamel and doing some
dry brushing which I know,which I haven't done in years
just to try and pop a little.
So you can't see anything inthis cockpit and once I put the
canopy on you really won't beable to see anything on it.
But I wanted to do something topop it a little bit.

(01:49:35):
So I've started dry brushingthe cockpit areas on.
Put my kit masks, f8f kit maskson Thank you, kevin, for
getting me those at HeritageConand then the sucker will be

(01:50:03):
ready to paint.
I did get my bottle of Mr ColorGlossy Blue in the mail today
and so the project's movingalong really well.
And I will say so the project'smoving along really well.
And I will say Inch is correctwhen he talks about batch
building really addingefficiency.
Now you have to be organized.

Mike (01:50:18):
No, back up, Hang on.
You said your bottle of glossyblue.

Yes, One single bottle should paint all three of
these oh yeah, easily, yeah,yeah.

No, it won't.
Yeah, it will.

Yeah, yeah, easily.

Yeah, yeah, no, I won't.

Yeah, I will, yeah, sure will.

Mike (01:50:32):
Yeah, sure will Jeff.
Yes, for you it would, yeah,hey.

I guess it depends on how much of it you're
planning on wearing before theend of your airbrush.

We'll see.

We'll see.

Mike (01:50:45):
We had this conversation earlier this week.
That's the one thing I don'tlike about Mr Keller is the
sample size bottle Size bottlethey sell everything in.

I do wish that they were.

Mike (01:50:55):
Tamiya.
I like the big fat Tamiyabottles, but those are hard to
find too.

Yes, I know they're just going away from so
F8Fs moving along Inch.
I really appreciate all theinput you've given me and you
are correct regarding theefficiencies, but the key is you
have to be organized.

Yeah, that is the key, but I am so proud of you
for doing a batch build.

Well, we'll see.
That's my first one.
You'll get hooked and thesekits are perfect for that Not
for anybody to think that I'veforgotten are perfect for that.
Not for anybody to think thatI've forgotten.
The SAM is back on the benchand I have started doing the
tube oil treatment to theunderside.
I had already completed it onthe top side when I had stopped

(01:51:41):
to work on the Moosaroo.
I'm hoping by the end of Aprilthat the SAM is done, but it's
really close and that's what mybench looks like.

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So, guys, the pace of new kits has slowed down
.
We're not, you know, the firstthree months of the year you get
all of these releases announced.
And, man, it was a fire hosethis year, but it slowed down,
but there are still new kitsbeing announced.

(01:52:39):
So, mike, do you have somefaves and yawns?
We'll rotate around between thethree of us.

Mike (01:52:48):
You start I got one fave Okay, because again it's been
light, yeah Well, my first favecomes from Gecko Models and
surprisingly it's not a VietnamWar subject this time.
They're coming up, coming outwith a new British truck that's
becoming real popular right now,one that IBG has not done yet.

(01:53:09):
This is a Bedford OYD truckThree ton, four by two wood
cargo body.
It looks like a good, solidmedium truck.
It's going to be useful to alot of people.
Gecko, their parent or daughteris somebody Right?
I can't remember who it is.
Somebody will let us know.
I want to say Bronco, but Ican't remember who it is.

(01:53:29):
Somebody will let us know.
I want to say Bronco, but Idon't know if that's true.
Maybe If it is true, it's goingto have a lot of parts.
I know that.
But it's a British soft skinthree-ton truck.
We're living in the best oftimes when you can get something
like this right.

Yep, Then you get your 35th scale Princess
Elizabeth figure and you canhave her there working on the
vehicle there.

Mike (01:53:58):
you go who's?

next, I'll go next.
I have three faves.
My first fave is our goodfriends at SBS.

Mike (01:54:10):
Yeah, in.

Hungary.
From Hungary, they haveannounced a 72nd scale
Supermarine S4, which was theSchneider Trophy aircraft
predecessor to the very famousSupermarine S6, the one that
finally clinched the SnyderTrophy.

(01:54:32):
But SBS, without even seeingthe kit, I can heartily
recommend it because their stuffis just so good and I can't
wait to see it.
So good and I can't wait to seeit, even if it's not a
particular area of interest.

It's still going to be a great kit, jeff.
Okay, I've got a few myself.
My first one is in my cart atHannan's.
I had backordered it.
It is the Micromir Caproni B-72Type B, and I struggle to
describe this accurately.
It's like a wing section withtwo engines on two floats.
It was a proposed design as aItalian torpedo boat.

(01:55:26):
It was never meant to fly.
It was a wing and ground effectaircraft, so you would
effectively get I don't know ahundred knot speed boat.
That was a torpedo bomber.
I struggled to think how topaint this thing, but it is just
so cool looking and it wouldgive me a chance to practice

(01:55:47):
some water effects as this thingis zipping along at whatever
speed it can get up to on a flatsea it would be worthless in
any kind of sea state, obviously.
But it is a unique aircraft ortorpedo boat, depending on what
you want to call it and itticked a lot of boxes for me.
Plus, it'll give me a chance topractice water effects.

(01:56:08):
Mike, do you have another one?

Mike (01:56:11):
Not other than noticing that Quintus Studios has entered
the 3D print sphere.
They've got a lot of machineguns, mostly 48 scale at this
point, but machine guns and whatelse They've got a well, in
72nd scale they got a US Navydeck tractor.

Yeah, there you go.
That could be useful that couldbe very useful.

Mike (01:56:34):
So it's going to be interesting to see what they do.
You know they've mostly beenknown for their 3D printed or 3D
textured decals for cockpitinteriors.
So I would be real curious whatthis stuff's going to look like
, because their cockpit stuff'sbeen pretty dang good.
So you know, hopefully it'sgoing to be some good stuff.
And you know these machine guns48 scale are they going to get

(01:56:57):
a 72nd?
That'd be really interesting.

Yes, it would.
Yeah Well, my next one is thecompany First to Fight.
Oh, good company.
The company First to Fight in72nd scale has announced a
French light tank, an AMR-35,which the French used, and I
believe the Poles might have hada few, and it's your funky

(01:57:25):
pre-war tankette type thing andI just love all those.
I don't know why it'sunreasonable, but I just
absolutely love them first offights released a lot of stuff.

Lately a lot of really obscure stuff yes, they
have.

Mike (01:57:43):
Well, what's their format?
Is it injection molded, or isit?

yeah, they're they're injection molded.
They're're somewhat simplified.
Usually if a tank you getrunning gear that is already all
molded as one piece.

Okay.

I like the subject.
That's cool.

Mike (01:57:59):
Jeff, you got another one.

Yep.
On the topic of obscuresubjects, rare Birds, models out
of Estonia has a 3D printcoming out and I'm going to
butcher this name La Ticore La.

Ticore 631.
Guess what was on my list.
That was on your list.

Okay, yeah, absolutely.
I'm going to wait and see ifthis turns out to be printed
well, but it is a six engineflying boat.
The French had one operationalbefore the invasion.
The Germans took it over.
It was strafed intononexistence.
They built another one afterthe war, but by that time, of

(01:58:40):
course, the commercialtransatlantic six-engine flying
boat market had died.
This thing has a 188-footwingspan, so that's two and a
half feet in 72nd scale, roughly.

I have seen one of the not one of these kits.
There was a vacuform of thisaircraft and I saw it at a show
once and it was one of the mostimpressive things I have.

In fact, it might have been indie a few years ago
well, if these guys can pullthis off, I I may have to spring
for one of these because thisthing is huge it is absolutely
huge, and both the pre-warcivilian scheme and the captured
scheme are both cool.

I mean, yeah, that tickles all the right, but
at the size of it I want to knowhow you do that in 3d print.
Obviously I think they'll do itin sections, but they'd have
I'm.
I'm just not sure how you get awing that big and that thin

(01:59:51):
that doesn't have significantstructural problems.

Yeah, you'd have a warpage issue with the resin,
obviously, and a brittlenessissue with anything that's 3D
printed.
I'd have to see if they couldpull it off before I'd spring
for it, but it's such aninteresting subject.

You and me both.
That was one of mine as well,so good on you.
Well what else you got, dave?
Oh well, that was my last.
One was the Latacor.
By the way, did you know thatLatacor still exists as a
company and they don't make fullairplanes but they make

(02:00:35):
airplane parts for Boeingaircraft?
And I only found that outrecently when there was the
subject of all of the foreigninputs into Boeing aircraft and
Laticor, I think they made geardoors or actually fuselage doors
for some of the Boeing aircraft, which was weird.
So, Jeff, do you have anotherfave or a yawn?

I've got one of each, if you want them both.

I can do both.
You give us both.

All right.
The last fave I've got is theEdward MiG-21 is being
re-released as a dual combo.
It has the masks, it has thecolored PE, it has a decal sheet
with 10 different schemes 25pounds, which is roughly $30
American, for two of these.
Now, I've built the MIG-21, theEdward MIG-21 before and it is

(02:01:39):
a beautiful kit.
It falls together, yeah, andthey are offering the decal
sheet, the masks and the colorPE all as part of that package
for two kits for $30.

And try to beat that, and if I didn't have six
unbuilt Edward MIG-21s, I'd behopping on that big time.

Well, I'm going to pull the trigger on that again
because it was such a wonderfulexperience to build the first
two I built.

Mike (02:02:05):
Dave will hop on it anyway .

I will too.
Yes, Give us your yawn two Ibuilt.

Dave will hop on it anyway, I will too.
Yes, give it.
Give us your yawn.
Okay, my yawn is a platz fa27.
Now you might ask what an fa27is, and being platz is a
japanese manufacturer.
You're not going to besurprised to learn that it is an
anime type subject.

Yep and it's cool looking.

It is unusual and you get a keychain with this
boxing and it is inspired by afive-episode anime called Battle
Ferry Yukikaze and I did notmake that up.
Imperial Japanese Navy fanswill know Yukikaze was the name
of a destroyer that was supposedto be the luckiest ship in the

(02:02:52):
IJN.
It fought in every major battleand was never hit.
The battle ferry thing I'm notquite sure what that's all about
, but the premise is aliens areinvading through some portal in
Antarctica and everybody's goingto fight the aliens.

(02:03:12):
And this hero pilot and his AI,platts FA-27 are the stars of
the show and they go fight thealiens.
So I cringe whenever amanufacturer that is able to
produce a quality kit such asPlatts, they are every bit in
the tamaya league, in my opinion.
I've built their, their x47ucast, which was the navy drone

(02:03:37):
bomber that got phased out forreasons that still mystify me.
But yeah, it was beautiful.
It was a box shaker, beautifulaircraft, beautiful kit.
I just don't get why they'redoing something that's so fringe
and it's obviously the Japanesemarket.

Yeah, I was going to say clearly home market.
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (02:04:01):
I don't have any more fans .
We're done.
This is a week month for atleast 35th scale armor releases,
so I'm not going to dog onanything, just to dog on it.
All right, this is a weak monthfor at least 35th scale armor
releases, so I'm not going todog on anything, just to dog on
it.
All right, fair enough.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we're almost at the
end of the episode and I'm atthe bottom of my modeling fluid,
and the Limekey neverdisappoints.
It's a very refreshing drink.
It is particularly refreshingin the summer months while
you're sitting out by the pool,you could drink those like

(02:04:46):
you're drinking lemonade orlimeade.
It's just awesome.
So no disappointments for me.
Jeff, how was the beer?

The Blue Moon Belgian White is just exquisite.
I have to really be carefulwith these.
They are so good and it's verytempting to go to the fridge and
get another one, but I'm goingto limit myself to one.
It is a smooth beer, veryrefreshing.
I could have these for the restof the evening and be quite
content.

Mike (02:05:12):
Mike, it's a bullet man, it's good.

Yeah, really, Is there anything more to say other
than go get yourself a bottle?
Now we're really at the end ofthe episode.
I want to do shout outs Ifyou've got a shout out to any
person or group or anything, andI'll start.

(02:05:36):
I want to do a shout out to theguys at Roscoe Turner.
I'm glad you had an extremelysuccessful show.
Sorry, last minute I wasn'table to make it.
Mike and I really want to getback to it.
That show means a lot to ussentimentally because it's the
first place we ever took PlasticModel Mojo and went and

(02:05:58):
recorded and it's got a specialplace in our heart and I'm glad
to see the show in the new venuecontinues to be nothing but a
success.
Jeff, do you have a shout out?

Well, I'll second the shout out to Roscoe Turner
Always a great show and I wantto shout out to you and Mike for
putting on this show everyother week.
It's like having a couple ofguys sitting in your modeling
room with you as you're workingat the bench and I've listened
to everyone.
It gets better and better.
It continues to grow and you'reproviding a great service to

(02:06:33):
the modeling community.
So kudos to both of you.

Mike (02:06:36):
Thank you very much.

Oh shucks, All right, Mike.

Mike (02:06:43):
Well, guys, my final shout out of the night is to all
those great folks out there whohave chosen to contribute to
plastic model mojo through theirgenerosity.
We really appreciate that.
It really helps us bring theshow to you, offsets a lot of
our costs and it helps us movethings forward with the work
we're doing on the new website.
So we really appreciate it.
If you'd like to be like thesefolks, we've set up several ways
that you can contribute to theshow.
We've got a Patreon link, a BuyMe a Coffee.

(02:07:06):
You can contribute throughPayPal.
You can find the links to allthose avenues of support in the
show notes to this and everyepisode, and we appreciate it
very, very much.
Thank you.

Yes, you really have helped and we are in the
midst of doing some upgrades andwe would not be able to do
those upgrades without yoursupport.

Mike (02:07:25):
Well, folks, we're at the end of this episode and, dave,
as we always say, so many yoursupport.
Well, folks, we're at the endof this episode and, dave, as we
always say, so many kits, solittle time.
Dave, jeff, thanks for joiningus for this episode.
It's been a pleasure having youhere.

My pleasure, my pleasure Thoroughly enjoyable.

Mike (02:07:39):
Sad we didn't get to meet you up at Indy, but I'm sure you
had a good time.

Yes, yeah.
Well, I hope we can all meet uptogether at the next one and
definitely try to makeLouisville this year, if nothing
else.

Mike (02:07:51):
Well, guys, we'll see you next time and maybe we'll see
you at our show, jeff.

Absolutely All right, don't miss it.

Mike (02:07:58):
Thanks for joining us, thanks for having me.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Scenic Products, Model Shows, and Bases Shop Talk: Episode 138

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Scenic Products, Model Shows, and Bases Shop Talk: Episode 138

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