December 26, 2022 • 20 mins
Episode 24 -We speak with Mick Hamilton Director of Collegiate NIL at Icon Source
Mick talks about his journey to landing his dream job at Icon Source and how the platform is digitizing the Sports Marketing Space and changing the dynamics of how Brands, Agents and Athletes can take advantage of NIL in both college & professional sports.
Icon Source is The Win/Win Platform for Athletes and Brands to interact, contract, monetize endorsements and build partnerships that work for all parties involved.
About Icon Source:
The Athlete Sponsorship Platform
Authentic Athletic Endorsements Start with Icon Source, Athletes and Agents. Get discovered and approached with powerful partnerships with Brands that fit you.
For Athletes:
Create an Account:
Let brands know who you are by creating a free profile on our platform in minutes, filling in things like your interests, sport, and social media profiles. All potential brand deals can be viewed in your dashboard.
Negotiate Contracts:
After creating an account, potential brand partners can view your profile and you can browse their available campaigns. After a brand finds you, or you find them, either party can reach out to start a conversation.
Sign and Execute:
All potential deals can be viewed in your dashboard, where you can negotiate contract terms. After negotiation, simply sign and receive payment through our secure platform. Once you are paid, you are free to execute the terms of your deal.
Learn More:
Icon Source is run by some of the best in the athlete marketing business. Read more about their story and how they have built the best athlete sponsorship platform.
https://iconsource.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Play the King (00:00):
This podcast is sponsored by OMI, the company
that makes CRM work.
And I'm here today with MickHamilton, Director of NIL for
Icon Source, NIL I know whatthat means because I somewhat
follow collegiate sports orsports in general.
Can you tell us what it means?
Like why is this important rightnow?
Yeah,
Mick Hamilton (00:18):
So NIL stands for name, image and likeliness.
And obviously the pro sidesalways had that! You're able to
get sponsorships or endorsementdeals or, you know, being on a
commercial.
But in college sports, you werenever allowed making any
dollars.
You know, alumni can never comeand buy you a hamburger at the
store on campus that was an NCAAviolation.
So I think it's around 120 yearsmaybe that the NCAAs existed.
(00:42):
That has been illegal.
And as of July 1st, 2021, itturned into being legal thanks
to a few states that pressurethe NCAA.
And they passed some state lawsto three days before July 1st
when I think Florida and Georgiaand a few other states were
gonna go legal, the NCAA cameout and said, Hey, everybody's
allowed making NIL now.
So, hey, every college athletecan make money off of
(01:04):
sponsorship, an endorsement if abusiness around the corner wants
you to make a TikTok forum for$500, you can do that and make
that money.
So, that's what NILstands fornow in college sports.
Play the King (01:15):
And so, okay, this may be a really basic
question, but the differencebetween an image and a likeness,
the image would be like, okay, aphoto of a football player on a
billboard, right?
But the likeness would be likean adaptation of that person in
like a video game environmentkind of thing.
Is that, is that sort of how tothink about the difference
between those two?
Mick Hamilton (01:31):
In a sense, yeah.
So in a sense, like the image,yeah, you nailed it.
Using it for, you know, abillboard or a social media
post, promote the business.
The likeliness is really, youknow, the likeliness of the
people following or, you know,the hardcore fans around campus
who know who this athlete is.
And so these athletes have alikeness now that they can
capitalize on.
And because of their name,they're able to make dollars for
(01:54):
themselves, for their families,and be able to use it as they
please now.
Play the King (01:57):
Gotcha.
So tell me how you came intothis position.
I'm always curious to hear howpeople get where they're, and I
know you moved, you were inCincinnati, you moved to
Atlanta.
Take us through like how do youarrive at a job like this?
Mick Hamilton (02:08):
Yeah, I, I didn't see it coming.
So, you know, I started fromCincinnati.
I went to a school called MullerHigh School.
It's an all boys Catholicschool.
Played different sports.
I've always loved sports growingup.
So I played football and soccer.
It's mainly soccer.
And I picked up rugby andfootball actually, my last two
years at Muller.
I decided to go to anotherschool, i t's called a O hio
(02:29):
University.
And, a fter that i t wasn't theright fit.
So I came back and my rugbycoach at the time in high school
w as actually the director ofplayer personnel a t Cincinnati.
His name's Doug F eld, he'sactually currently the assistant
head coach for the Bengals i n Zach Taylor.
From there it was Luke Ficklesfirst year and it was Marcus
Freeman's first year as a truestandalone defensive coordinator
(02:49):
in college football CoachFickles now at Wisconsin.
Coach Freeman is now the headcoach at Notre Dame and really
worked as a student assistantfor him, coach Freeman and
eventually, was lucky enough tosurround myself with so many
successful and determined peoplewhere within my, I think third
year in, we were able to startrecruiting at Cincinnati and
(03:09):
there was something called theNasty Boys, and it was from the
1990 Reds Relief pitchers.
The Nasty Boys were myself, MaxSteiner, who is now officially
the director of player Personnelat Wisconsin.
Caleb Davis, who is now a NotreDame analyst.
Chad Bowen, director ofrecruiting at Notre Dame.
And Pat Lambert who is now thedirector of recruiting at
(03:30):
Wisconsin.
And we're able to break a decentamount of records there and
we're just really passionate andhardworking.
And when that ended uphappening, coach Freeman went to
Notre Dame and I had to reallymake a decision because my team
kind of split apart.
And this opportunity at IconSource came through and I
actually just solely asked justfor an internship for six months
for, for free.
(03:50):
I was kind of bluffing andcouldn't really afford it.
And luckily enough, two weeksin, I got a full-time
opportunity, so packed my bagsup, put the degree to the side
and stumbled into Icon Sourcewhere this was prior to the
legalization of NIL and once NILday one happened, I got to be a
part of the first ever deal inNIL history, i n New York City
Times Square with, t hese girlscalled t he Cavender Twins and,
(04:12):
a nd B oost M obile alongside as I actually set up the first e
ver HBCU deal at 12:01 AM with aJackson State athlete a nd a
black o wned business b ased out o f Cincinnati actually.
And that was just an awesomeopportunity and from there we've
really taken off and I k ind ofpinched myself because t ime's
flown by now I t hink we'realmost about to encompass two
years i n i nto NIL, which iscrazy.
Play the King (04:33):
is, it's
so funny.
Coming from soccer backgroundinto, you know, in now you're
just sort of really in mesh inthe world of college football.
Is football sort of the, theleading, you know, I guess what
is the hierarchy in terms ofjust like most coveted, you
know, sports athletes, from thatyou see from brands?
Mick Hamilton (04:50):
Yeah, that's a really good question because I
think if you asked anybody whowas really as into it or at
least follows in on Twitter andsocial media, they would say the
starting quarterback would makethe most amount of dollars at
all these schools.
They're the top dog.
We're, the star basketballplayer at a big school like
Kansas or Kentucky.
Obviously those are still bigtime athletes who are making a
(05:11):
lot of money, but really thepeople who are making the most,
and I think in my own opinion inthe future, are gonna be the
content creator esque athletes,right?
Maybe the people that youhaven't paid too much attention
to, but they have a massivefollowing on social media
because what we've learned isthat those athletes, especially
female athletes, have way moreengagement rates.
They have those true followersand then the football players
(05:34):
and on the other hand have a lotof those recruiting followers
who follow'em, the fans, butthey're not as engaged in a
sense.
They're really just there forsupport, show the love that
they, you know, they follow'em,they're like their pictures.
So really it's interesting, thehierarchy is really those, those
big time athletes alongside thecontent creators that the
everyday sports fan might noteven know of.
But you know, the younger kidsand the kids growing up and
(05:54):
wanting to find those heroes,they're big fans and those are
their superstars in their eyes.
So it's kind of two-way factor,but both sides are great and
it's a little bit different thanmost people, I guess.
See.
Play the King (06:05):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I remember seeing a story in theNew York Times a couple weeks
ago about that.
I think she's a gymnast at LSUand they were talking about just
this new Okay, I, yeah, like yousaid, I was expecting, you know,
the quarterback, whatever, youknow, that's sort of the
traditional, I guess, moneymaker.
Um, okay, cool.
And now I want to hear aboutyour platform, Icon Source,
(06:25):
right?
It's super interesting becausewhen I go onto the site, the law
I think is just a littledifferent in every state.
And so you actually have thisreally useful breakdown of like
, you know, and like,what is possible, how do you
navigate this in your state?
And I imagine this is helpfulnot just for, you know, the
brands that are coming andwanting to use Icon Source, but
also, you know, the athletes whoare using it.
(06:46):
It's a, I mean, it's a two-waymarketplace, right?
So you have both sides who are,who are wanting to participate
and it's just seems really,really complicated, but you guys
do a great job of breaking itdown.
Mick Hamilton (06:56):
Yeah, so I, we started actually on the pro side
four years ago, our CEO ChaseGarrett, he was running, global
Red Bull Sports Marketing, andreally wanted to digitize the
sports marketing space.
So other than the Red Bulls, theGatorades, the Nikes of the
world, he wanted everybody tohave the opportunity to be able
to jump into sports marketing.
So, you know, we offeredtemplate contracts, direct
contact to either the athlete orthe agent, whoever's running
(07:19):
their account.
The social demographics of, youknow, who's following somebody a
lot of brand love saying, Hey,you know, if we're gonna work
with this athlete, you know, dothey have the right followers
for where we're wanting totarget our marketing campaigns
at, alongside the paymentprocessing and the tax reporting
that college athletes arelearning about.
But yeah, it's super interestingjust because, kinda like what I
said before, Florida really, thestate of Florida passed a law
(07:42):
and so did California and a fewothers to really press the NCAA
to make a decision really fast.
So when that happened, it kindof opened up the gates.
And NCAA has lost a lot ofcontrol where every state has a
different NIL law and differentpolicies and the more confusing
part of it, George is not justthe state, but you know, for
example, Ohio State hascompletely different laws in
(08:03):
Cincinnati and then they havecompletely different laws than
the University of Dayton andthen the Ohio University.
And so they all have thesedifferent policies just because
of where the NCAA really placedall these goals in the situation
everybody's in currently.
So that's where a lot of brandsfind a lot of success.
One of, knowing we have a teamthat we can help them navigate
the right rules, make surethey're not using marks and
(08:24):
logos according to the schoolpolicies or laws or, you know,
maybe some schools want theirathletes to disclose as in, Hey,
I got a deal, you'll need toknow about it.
So it's not illegal.
These are a lot of things thatour team works with and it's
really interesting too because,you know, we're marketing a lot
to college athletes.
I think within the first year,maybe a little bit less, and we
really stopped because a lot ofathletes started doing deals and
(08:44):
then they're, they probably wentand told their ath their friends
in the, in the locker room or,or their friends, they went to
high school with, Hey, you needto sign up on Icon Source
because it's a trusted place,everything's done right.
Um, and so that's really like,it's kind of become a safe haven
for brands, athletes and eventheir agents to really reel in
deals and especially for theagent side, keep their clients
happy.
Play the King (09:04):
So if you could just really briefly from an
agency point of view or youknow, an advertiser point of
view, how does it work?
What do you, what do you do youcome in, sign up and what
happens then?
Mick Hamilton (09:12):
Yeah, so you can sign up and, and there's
different plans.
So our lowest one's the bronzeplan, it's$500 a month, there's
a transaction fee on top around15% and you have access to the
site.
So a big thing that we reallypreach is that you have to
follow the rules as a athleteagent to even just be seen on
the platform.
So we really want those trueusers on our platforms so the
(09:35):
brands can reach out.
So they're able to do that.
They're also able to, you know,work off subscription plans
where they can work with theircustomer success management team
and they're able to help reallyuse their expertise match with
the right and authenticathletes.
But in general, let's say youjust did the bronze plan, you're
on your own, you're able to goin there, scroll through
thousands and thousands ofathletes on the college and the
(09:56):
pro sides filter so you can findthe right and authentic brand.
So, you know, maybe you're ahealth and wellness company and
you're based outta Georgia.
You could filter out of Georgia,you could say college pro type
in health and wellness.
You can even go down from maleto female and then you can find
those right athletes that mightmake it fit and, and work
perfect for your company.
So from there you would sendthem a deal through our
(10:17):
templated contracts, we ask youthe same questions for you
basically just to fill in, um,numerically of what a sports
market at Nike or Gatorade wouldask you, if that makes sense.
So from there you're able tosend a deal directly to the
athlete or the agents.
The only time you're able tocontact them, I always like to
say, when there's money on thetable and from there you're able
to actually message back andforth, you're able to negotiate
(10:37):
and if anything needs to getchanged in the contract, it
takes about five seconds forthat to be changed.
And once the both of the partiesfind, you know, an agreement,
they're able to sign itdigitally through our platform.
And you're off to the races fromthere.
Once actually, the athlete doeswhat's asked, so maybe it's a
social media post, they'reactually supposed to click pay
now from then they already havetheir payment information hand
their tax reporting informationin the brand can see it on their
(11:01):
side go, Hey, they followed allthe rules, this was in the
contract, everything's statedperfectly, and the money's
actually sitting in escrow.
When they click payout, thefunds get released to the other
party and they're onto the nextdeal in a sense.
So it's really, really cool.
It's really changed the platformsince I've started and it's
gotten more detailed, more hightech in a sense.
(11:21):
Um, and we've really gotta get alot of referrals from our
clients of, Hey, what, what canwe fix?
What, what do you need?
Since you're the ones who arereally using this that we might
not be able to see.
And that's where we've seen thebest success from our side.
Play the King (11:32):
Now, from the athlete's point of view, you
know, I'm sure you have figureson like, oh, this many, you
know, this number of dollarswent to college athletes in
2021, you know, whatever it wasin 2022.
I guess I'm more interested inanecdotally, do you have any,
any stories or any anecdotesjust about how this has changed,
you know, a college athlete'slife or someone, someone's life,
(11:53):
life, just being able to make alittle more, you know, a little
money on the side, not nothaving to necessarily get a job
that's gonna take'em away fromtheir studies or their training.
I don't know, just anything cometo mind there?
Mick Hamilton (12:03):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And really, I was explainingthis Rowan, NIL took place, got
a lot of people saying, well,they're already, you know,
making enough money from, youknow, see it cost of attendance
checks, which is completelyuntrue.
And really, I think my angle andwhat I do is, I came from a
coaching background.
I was around the athletes.
I actually lived with a lot ofthe football players because
they're my age and was aroundthem and you know, you'd see
kids take their COA checks andsend it back to mom to keep the
(12:26):
lights on for their siblings andit was heartbreaking.
And that's just the situationthey're in now.
And so with NILthey're able tomake a little bit more dollars
off of, you know, what they dobest.
You know, especially infootball, you're putting your
body on the line every singleday and you know, God forbid one
kid can change your life.
So, you know, I've talked to afew kids who I just wanted to
check in on'em, I've gotta builda great relationships.
I know they're doing tons ofdeals on our platform, they're
(12:49):
super active and, you know, hadone athlete and they'll keep
their name out of it just fortheir own privacy sake.
But, you know, said, Hey man,this, this has been amazing for
me.
I don't tell a lot of people, alot of people don't know, but I
actually have a son at home andyou know, my mom gets to take
care of him just because I'vebeen, I'm so busy with my, you
know, my sports and trying toget to the next level where I
take my money and I get to sendmom back diaper money and food
(13:09):
money and help take care of mychild because she's n ot, you
know, she's obviously has towork on her own too.
There's stuff like that.
You know, there's anotherinteresting status, actually our
top three earners on Icon Sourceis female athletes.
A lot of people always think themales are going to make a lot of
the money and female athleteshave made so many dollars.
There's one girl named ReniaJones and she's made thousands
(13:29):
and thousands and thousands ofdollars just on Icon Source
because of her personality andkind of really what she shows in
her brand and you know, howpeople can relate to it.
So it's really, really coolseeing these kind of scenarios
play and getting to meet a lotof athletes who, you know, come
from different environments ordifferent standpoints where, you
know, they're not just on theirown, they gotta help out other
(13:49):
people and their family and thisjust creates an opportunity,
which is just so cool to be apart of,
Play the King (13:54):
You know.
Can we stay with her for aminute?
You mentioned a woman who's beensuccessful.
Yeah.
What let's, let's like zero inon that.
What does that look like?
What kind of brands are findingher?
How, you know how is that likeYeah, tell me the story of of of
how she's been successful onthis platform.
Mick Hamilton (14:07):
Yeah, so she actually started off as a first
ever female in the state ofFlorida to do an NIL deal.
We gotta put it together with acompany called Miller
Technologies.
So it's actually a printingcompany.
So a lot of people are like, whyare they doing NIL deals?
Well, you know, unfortunately asCEO they lost some, he lost his
son in a drowning accident.
So we're very passionate about,you know, working with YMCA,
helping out inner citycommunities.
(14:29):
So Renia on the first day I wasable to sign deal with them, got
to go to a YMCA, hang out withkids, you know, k ind o f have a
mini p ress conference andreally be, be along with t he
ride.
And from there, you know, otherbrands s aw i t and she actually
got to do a, a deal with a bankat UCF.
She's a star track runner at UCFand it's called Addition
Financials.
So she's gotta shoot Olympickind of commercials on tv.
(14:50):
She's gotta do financialliteracy with the executives of
the bank, which is unreal.
I wish I could have had that,still wish I can have that.
Um, podcasts, different thingslike that.
So there's so many creative waysthat businesses can get involved
and they can get involved insolely just promoting their own
company or they can get involvedin working with another outside
nonprofit and kind of do acollaboration with, you know, a
(15:13):
an athlete and, and help out notjust their company, but you
know, even the community aroundthem.
Play the King (15:17):
That's great.
I love that.
What would you say to someonewho's maybe, you know, wants to
do their toe in the water, youknow, coming into maybe coming
into college, how do you getstarted here?
What, what, what are the thingsto look out for?
What are the things to maybe toavoid?
How do you do this successfully?
Mick Hamilton (15:31):
You know, I think one, because this is, this is a
big topic just because mybackground recruiting and seeing
how it's kind of going with NIL,it's obviously completely
changed the way College F orcesis done now.
I think one focus on your craft still focus on your
sport.
You know, the NIL deals willcome at t he end of the day,
they won't come if you can'tproduce once you get to that
school because a lot of athletesforget you could h ave been the
(15:54):
man or the female at your schooli n high school, but once you
get to the next level, it'sdifferent, right?
And so don't chase the NILdollars, find somewhere where
they can develop you, w herethey can turn you into the
athlete, where you can go makethe real dollars at the next
level.
But I'd say from high school,start posting alot.
Understand, you know, what areyour values?
What is your brand?
(16:14):
You know, what are, what's allabout you?
You know, why would, why dopeople follow you?
Post that kind of stuff and stayaway obviously, especially in
high school, any pictures whereyou kind of scratch your head
and say, is this a good look onme?
Um, because brands really dolook at that, you'd be
surprised, you know, I'd go on aSprouts farmer's market, we
wanted to do 50 deals withfemale athletes and we gave them
(16:35):
around 150 names and we went,dropped down back down to like
20 because it said, no, no, no,there was something we didn't
like.
There was a caption we didn'tlike.
It was all these things.
So it's really putting yourselfup, representing yourself as a
professional, um, because you'renot obviously representing just
your team now, yourself and yourfamily, but it can be a brand.
So I think one, focus on yourcraft, focus on all that kind of
(16:56):
stuff on the side.
Figure out what you like, postconstantly about it.
Don't care what people, mightmake fun of you for constantly
posting because at the end ofthe day, you're gonna be the one
who makes most of the dollarsand the people who don't want to
post, they're shy, they're toogood for it.
Just because they're a footballplayer or a good athlete doesn't
mean they're gonna get a lot ofmoney in NIL because they don't
necessarily bring that valueback to the brand.
Play the King (17:15):
Gotcha.
That's interesting.
Really.
That's good advice.
All right.
We talked about how agents, youknow, agencies, agents can get
involved.
I guess when I say agency, Ithink of like an advertising
agency.
I guess you have agents like whoare actually like actual agents
of these athletes you who arehelping out, right?
Mick Hamilton (17:31):
We work with both .
Play the King (17:33):
Yeah.
What would you leave us with?
We've talked about how each ofthese different entities can
sort of get involved.
I don't really see a downside todoing so what else would you say
here just to, to leave us with?
Mick Hamilton (17:44):
Yeah, I think, you know, one, I think a lot of
brands are trying to figure outhow to do this and even
marketing agencies where theyhave a few people who, you know
they know somebody at CAA andthey go to CAS and they go, Hey,
here's all of our athletesthat'll work.
Let's make it work.
And the big thing is that alltheir athletes might not be
(18:04):
perfect.
They might have one athlete,Rock Nation might have one
athlete, you know, Rosenhausmight have one athlete WME might
have another perfect athlete.
Instead of just going to oneperson who's trying to get all
their athletes paid with the onebrand, why not work with
professionals in a sense,especially with us, you know,
where we work with the tons ofmarketing agencies and we work
with, we have 600 plus sportsagents who utilize our platform
(18:26):
that is crazy.
So we can go and say, Hey, youknow, they might have the
perfect athlete, but maybe thatisn't necessarily the right one
too.
Because there's somebody overhere that can make sense.
Really, at the end of the day,our goal at Icon Source is to
amplify these campaigns, makesure the brands are happy and
they have the resources to beable to do marketing deals and
not be limited to it.
And that's our bread and butter.
(18:47):
That's what we're passionateabout, that's what we do.
And we're really, you know,we're not in it for the NIL
game.
We started on the pro side.
We're really in it to digitizethe entire sports marketing
space.
And really, I think it'd be coolseeing everybody, you know, even
a local kid in South Georgia, hehas his own, you know,
supporting a local business.
He grew up going to that kind ofstuff where those brands now
have the capabilities to workwith professionals, use a
(19:11):
platform with the resources andtechnology to help you succeed
and reach those goals.
Because this isn't easy and NILis so young, it is not easy.
And a lot of brands come to usafter they got really burnt and
we have everything checked off,all the boxes, and this is what
we do.
So,
Play the King (19:27):
Love it.
It's been really a pleasurespeaking with you.
Thank you for your passion forthis is really comes through
knowledge too.
Thank you.
So thanks for yeah, thanks forspending time with me and wish
you the best of luck.
Mick Hamilton (19:37):
Yeah, thanks George.
This was awesome.
I really appreciate it.
And looking forward to talkingto y'all after.
Play the King (19:43):
And, where can someone's listening to this and
wants to get involved with ifthey're interested, where can
they go to learn more and signup?
I know it's free for athletes,so there's no reason not to,
where do they go?
Mick Hamilton (19:53):
Yeah, it's an absolute no-brainer for
athletes.
They can go sign up on the app,just type in Icon Source on the
app store, either on Google Playor Apple store.
And it's completely free.
We don't take a single pennyfrom the college athlete.
And on the brand side, just goto iconsource.com, click sign up
.
You'll see brand plus marketing,you can create an account.
From there you can check it out,you can pick a plan.
(20:16):
If not, you can reach out to ourteam and we can have a further
discussion, see if this makessense, see what your goals are
and see if we can accomplishthem.
So we're really passionate.
Our group of people, you know,the college athletes are excited
to get onto our platform and wejust love bringing value to
everybody.
So feel free to reach out to us.
This podcast is sponsored by OMI, the company
that makes CRM work.
And I'm here today with MickHamilton, Director of NIL for
Icon Source, NIL I know whatthat means because I somewhat
follow collegiate sports orsports in general.
Can you tell us what it means?
Like why is this important rightnow?
Yeah,
Mick Hamilton (00:18):
So NIL stands for name, image and likeliness.
And obviously the pro sidesalways had that! You're able to
get sponsorships or endorsementdeals or, you know, being on a
commercial.
But in college sports, you werenever allowed making any
dollars.
You know, alumni can never comeand buy you a hamburger at the
store on campus that was an NCAAviolation.
So I think it's around 120 yearsmaybe that the NCAAs existed.
(00:42):
That has been illegal.
And as of July 1st, 2021, itturned into being legal thanks
to a few states that pressurethe NCAA.
And they passed some state lawsto three days before July 1st
when I think Florida and Georgiaand a few other states were
gonna go legal, the NCAA cameout and said, Hey, everybody's
allowed making NIL now.
So, hey, every college athletecan make money off of
(01:04):
sponsorship, an endorsement if abusiness around the corner wants
you to make a TikTok forum for$500, you can do that and make
that money.
So, that's what NILstands fornow in college sports.
Play the King (01:15):
And so, okay, this may be a really basic
question, but the differencebetween an image and a likeness,
the image would be like, okay, aphoto of a football player on a
billboard, right?
But the likeness would be likean adaptation of that person in
like a video game environmentkind of thing.
Is that, is that sort of how tothink about the difference
between those two?
Mick Hamilton (01:31):
In a sense, yeah.
So in a sense, like the image,yeah, you nailed it.
Using it for, you know, abillboard or a social media
post, promote the business.
The likeliness is really, youknow, the likeliness of the
people following or, you know,the hardcore fans around campus
who know who this athlete is.
And so these athletes have alikeness now that they can
capitalize on.
And because of their name,they're able to make dollars for
(01:54):
themselves, for their families,and be able to use it as they
please now.
Play the King (01:57):
Gotcha.
So tell me how you came intothis position.
I'm always curious to hear howpeople get where they're, and I
know you moved, you were inCincinnati, you moved to
Atlanta.
Take us through like how do youarrive at a job like this?
Mick Hamilton (02:08):
Yeah, I, I didn't see it coming.
So, you know, I started fromCincinnati.
I went to a school called MullerHigh School.
It's an all boys Catholicschool.
Played different sports.
I've always loved sports growingup.
So I played football and soccer.
It's mainly soccer.
And I picked up rugby andfootball actually, my last two
years at Muller.
I decided to go to anotherschool, i t's called a O hio
(02:29):
University.
And, a fter that i t wasn't theright fit.
So I came back and my rugbycoach at the time in high school
w as actually the director ofplayer personnel a t Cincinnati.
His name's Doug F eld, he'sactually currently the assistant
head coach for the Bengals i n Zach Taylor.
From there it was Luke Ficklesfirst year and it was Marcus
Freeman's first year as a truestandalone defensive coordinator
(02:49):
in college football CoachFickles now at Wisconsin.
Coach Freeman is now the headcoach at Notre Dame and really
worked as a student assistantfor him, coach Freeman and
eventually, was lucky enough tosurround myself with so many
successful and determined peoplewhere within my, I think third
year in, we were able to startrecruiting at Cincinnati and
(03:09):
there was something called theNasty Boys, and it was from the
1990 Reds Relief pitchers.
The Nasty Boys were myself, MaxSteiner, who is now officially
the director of player Personnelat Wisconsin.
Caleb Davis, who is now a NotreDame analyst.
Chad Bowen, director ofrecruiting at Notre Dame.
And Pat Lambert who is now thedirector of recruiting at
(03:30):
Wisconsin.
And we're able to break a decentamount of records there and
we're just really passionate andhardworking.
And when that ended uphappening, coach Freeman went to
Notre Dame and I had to reallymake a decision because my team
kind of split apart.
And this opportunity at IconSource came through and I
actually just solely asked justfor an internship for six months
for, for free.
(03:50):
I was kind of bluffing andcouldn't really afford it.
And luckily enough, two weeksin, I got a full-time
opportunity, so packed my bagsup, put the degree to the side
and stumbled into Icon Sourcewhere this was prior to the
legalization of NIL and once NILday one happened, I got to be a
part of the first ever deal inNIL history, i n New York City
Times Square with, t hese girlscalled t he Cavender Twins and,
(04:12):
a nd B oost M obile alongside as I actually set up the first e
ver HBCU deal at 12:01 AM with aJackson State athlete a nd a
black o wned business b ased out o f Cincinnati actually.
And that was just an awesomeopportunity and from there we've
really taken off and I k ind ofpinched myself because t ime's
flown by now I t hink we'realmost about to encompass two
years i n i nto NIL, which iscrazy.
Play the King (04:33):
Coming from soccer backgroundinto, you know, in now you're
just sort of really in mesh inthe world of college football.
Is football sort of the, theleading, you know, I guess what
is the hierarchy in terms ofjust like most coveted, you
know, sports athletes, from thatyou see from brands?
Mick Hamilton (04:50):
Yeah, that's a really good question because I
think if you asked anybody whowas really as into it or at
least follows in on Twitter andsocial media, they would say the
starting quarterback would makethe most amount of dollars at
all these schools.
They're the top dog.
We're, the star basketballplayer at a big school like
Kansas or Kentucky.
Obviously those are still bigtime athletes who are making a
(05:11):
lot of money, but really thepeople who are making the most,
and I think in my own opinion inthe future, are gonna be the
content creator esque athletes,right?
Maybe the people that youhaven't paid too much attention
to, but they have a massivefollowing on social media
because what we've learned isthat those athletes, especially
female athletes, have way moreengagement rates.
They have those true followersand then the football players
(05:34):
and on the other hand have a lotof those recruiting followers
who follow'em, the fans, butthey're not as engaged in a
sense.
They're really just there forsupport, show the love that
they, you know, they follow'em,they're like their pictures.
So really it's interesting, thehierarchy is really those, those
big time athletes alongside thecontent creators that the
everyday sports fan might noteven know of.
But you know, the younger kidsand the kids growing up and
(05:54):
wanting to find those heroes,they're big fans and those are
their superstars in their eyes.
So it's kind of two-way factor,but both sides are great and
it's a little bit different thanmost people, I guess.
See.
Play the King (06:05):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I remember seeing a story in theNew York Times a couple weeks
ago about that.
I think she's a gymnast at LSUand they were talking about just
this new Okay, I, yeah, like yousaid, I was expecting, you know,
the quarterback, whatever, youknow, that's sort of the
traditional, I guess, moneymaker.
Um, okay, cool.
And now I want to hear aboutyour platform, Icon Source,
(06:25):
right?
It's super interesting becausewhen I go onto the site, the law
I think is just a littledifferent in every state.
And so you actually have thisreally useful breakdown of like
navigate this in your state?
And I imagine this is helpfulnot just for, you know, the
brands that are coming andwanting to use Icon Source, but
also, you know, the athletes whoare using it.
(06:46):
It's a, I mean, it's a two-waymarketplace, right?
So you have both sides who are,who are wanting to participate
and it's just seems really,really complicated, but you guys
do a great job of breaking itdown.
Mick Hamilton (06:56):
Yeah, so I, we started actually on the pro side
four years ago, our CEO ChaseGarrett, he was running, global
Red Bull Sports Marketing, andreally wanted to digitize the
sports marketing space.
So other than the Red Bulls, theGatorades, the Nikes of the
world, he wanted everybody tohave the opportunity to be able
to jump into sports marketing.
So, you know, we offeredtemplate contracts, direct
contact to either the athlete orthe agent, whoever's running
(07:19):
their account.
The social demographics of, youknow, who's following somebody a
lot of brand love saying, Hey,you know, if we're gonna work
with this athlete, you know, dothey have the right followers
for where we're wanting totarget our marketing campaigns
at, alongside the paymentprocessing and the tax reporting
that college athletes arelearning about.
But yeah, it's super interestingjust because, kinda like what I
said before, Florida really, thestate of Florida passed a law
(07:42):
and so did California and a fewothers to really press the NCAA
to make a decision really fast.
So when that happened, it kindof opened up the gates.
And NCAA has lost a lot ofcontrol where every state has a
different NIL law and differentpolicies and the more confusing
part of it, George is not justthe state, but you know, for
example, Ohio State hascompletely different laws in
(08:03):
Cincinnati and then they havecompletely different laws than
the University of Dayton andthen the Ohio University.
And so they all have thesedifferent policies just because
of where the NCAA really placedall these goals in the situation
everybody's in currently.
So that's where a lot of brandsfind a lot of success.
One of, knowing we have a teamthat we can help them navigate
the right rules, make surethey're not using marks and
(08:24):
logos according to the schoolpolicies or laws or, you know,
maybe some schools want theirathletes to disclose as in, Hey,
I got a deal, you'll need toknow about it.
So it's not illegal.
These are a lot of things thatour team works with and it's
really interesting too because,you know, we're marketing a lot
to college athletes.
I think within the first year,maybe a little bit less, and we
really stopped because a lot ofathletes started doing deals and
(08:44):
then they're, they probably wentand told their ath their friends
in the, in the locker room or,or their friends, they went to
high school with, Hey, you needto sign up on Icon Source
because it's a trusted place,everything's done right.
Um, and so that's really like,it's kind of become a safe haven
for brands, athletes and eventheir agents to really reel in
deals and especially for theagent side, keep their clients
happy.
Play the King (09:04):
So if you could just really briefly from an
agency point of view or youknow, an advertiser point of
view, how does it work?
What do you, what do you do youcome in, sign up and what
happens then?
Mick Hamilton (09:12):
Yeah, so you can sign up and, and there's
different plans.
So our lowest one's the bronzeplan, it's$500 a month, there's
a transaction fee on top around15% and you have access to the
site.
So a big thing that we reallypreach is that you have to
follow the rules as a athleteagent to even just be seen on
the platform.
So we really want those trueusers on our platforms so the
(09:35):
brands can reach out.
So they're able to do that.
They're also able to, you know,work off subscription plans
where they can work with theircustomer success management team
and they're able to help reallyuse their expertise match with
the right and authenticathletes.
But in general, let's say youjust did the bronze plan, you're
on your own, you're able to goin there, scroll through
thousands and thousands ofathletes on the college and the
(09:56):
pro sides filter so you can findthe right and authentic brand.
So, you know, maybe you're ahealth and wellness company and
you're based outta Georgia.
You could filter out of Georgia,you could say college pro type
in health and wellness.
You can even go down from maleto female and then you can find
those right athletes that mightmake it fit and, and work
perfect for your company.
So from there you would sendthem a deal through our
(10:17):
templated contracts, we ask youthe same questions for you
basically just to fill in, um,numerically of what a sports
market at Nike or Gatorade wouldask you, if that makes sense.
So from there you're able tosend a deal directly to the
athlete or the agents.
The only time you're able tocontact them, I always like to
say, when there's money on thetable and from there you're able
to actually message back andforth, you're able to negotiate
(10:37):
and if anything needs to getchanged in the contract, it
takes about five seconds forthat to be changed.
And once the both of the partiesfind, you know, an agreement,
they're able to sign itdigitally through our platform.
And you're off to the races fromthere.
Once actually, the athlete doeswhat's asked, so maybe it's a
social media post, they'reactually supposed to click pay
now from then they already havetheir payment information hand
their tax reporting informationin the brand can see it on their
(11:01):
side go, Hey, they followed allthe rules, this was in the
contract, everything's statedperfectly, and the money's
actually sitting in escrow.
When they click payout, thefunds get released to the other
party and they're onto the nextdeal in a sense.
So it's really, really cool.
It's really changed the platformsince I've started and it's
gotten more detailed, more hightech in a sense.
(11:21):
Um, and we've really gotta get alot of referrals from our
clients of, Hey, what, what canwe fix?
What, what do you need?
Since you're the ones who arereally using this that we might
not be able to see.
And that's where we've seen thebest success from our side.
Play the King (11:32):
Now, from the athlete's point of view, you
know, I'm sure you have figureson like, oh, this many, you
know, this number of dollarswent to college athletes in
2021, you know, whatever it wasin 2022.
I guess I'm more interested inanecdotally, do you have any,
any stories or any anecdotesjust about how this has changed,
you know, a college athlete'slife or someone, someone's life,
(11:53):
life, just being able to make alittle more, you know, a little
money on the side, not nothaving to necessarily get a job
that's gonna take'em away fromtheir studies or their training.
I don't know, just anything cometo mind there?
Mick Hamilton (12:03):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And really, I was explainingthis Rowan, NIL took place, got
a lot of people saying, well,they're already, you know,
making enough money from, youknow, see it cost of attendance
checks, which is completelyuntrue.
And really, I think my angle andwhat I do is, I came from a
coaching background.
I was around the athletes.
I actually lived with a lot ofthe football players because
they're my age and was aroundthem and you know, you'd see
kids take their COA checks andsend it back to mom to keep the
(12:26):
lights on for their siblings andit was heartbreaking.
And that's just the situationthey're in now.
And so with NILthey're able tomake a little bit more dollars
off of, you know, what they dobest.
You know, especially infootball, you're putting your
body on the line every singleday and you know, God forbid one
kid can change your life.
So, you know, I've talked to afew kids who I just wanted to
check in on'em, I've gotta builda great relationships.
I know they're doing tons ofdeals on our platform, they're
(12:49):
super active and, you know, hadone athlete and they'll keep
their name out of it just fortheir own privacy sake.
But, you know, said, Hey man,this, this has been amazing for
me.
I don't tell a lot of people, alot of people don't know, but I
actually have a son at home andyou know, my mom gets to take
care of him just because I'vebeen, I'm so busy with my, you
know, my sports and trying toget to the next level where I
take my money and I get to sendmom back diaper money and food
(13:09):
money and help take care of mychild because she's n ot, you
know, she's obviously has towork on her own too.
There's stuff like that.
You know, there's anotherinteresting status, actually our
top three earners on Icon Sourceis female athletes.
A lot of people always think themales are going to make a lot of
the money and female athleteshave made so many dollars.
There's one girl named ReniaJones and she's made thousands
(13:29):
and thousands and thousands ofdollars just on Icon Source
because of her personality andkind of really what she shows in
her brand and you know, howpeople can relate to it.
So it's really, really coolseeing these kind of scenarios
play and getting to meet a lotof athletes who, you know, come
from different environments ordifferent standpoints where, you
know, they're not just on theirown, they gotta help out other
(13:49):
people and their family and thisjust creates an opportunity,
which is just so cool to be apart of,
Play the King (13:54):
You know.
Can we stay with her for aminute?
You mentioned a woman who's beensuccessful.
Yeah.
What let's, let's like zero inon that.
What does that look like?
What kind of brands are findingher?
How, you know how is that likeYeah, tell me the story of of of
how she's been successful onthis platform.
Mick Hamilton (14:07):
Yeah, so she actually started off as a first
ever female in the state ofFlorida to do an NIL deal.
We gotta put it together with acompany called Miller
Technologies.
So it's actually a printingcompany.
So a lot of people are like, whyare they doing NIL deals?
Well, you know, unfortunately asCEO they lost some, he lost his
son in a drowning accident.
So we're very passionate about,you know, working with YMCA,
helping out inner citycommunities.
(14:29):
So Renia on the first day I wasable to sign deal with them, got
to go to a YMCA, hang out withkids, you know, k ind o f have a
mini p ress conference andreally be, be along with t he
ride.
And from there, you know, otherbrands s aw i t and she actually
got to do a, a deal with a bankat UCF.
She's a star track runner at UCFand it's called Addition
Financials.
So she's gotta shoot Olympickind of commercials on tv.
(14:50):
She's gotta do financialliteracy with the executives of
the bank, which is unreal.
I wish I could have had that,still wish I can have that.
Um, podcasts, different thingslike that.
So there's so many creative waysthat businesses can get involved
and they can get involved insolely just promoting their own
company or they can get involvedin working with another outside
nonprofit and kind of do acollaboration with, you know, a
(15:13):
an athlete and, and help out notjust their company, but you
know, even the community aroundthem.
Play the King (15:17):
That's great.
I love that.
What would you say to someonewho's maybe, you know, wants to
do their toe in the water, youknow, coming into maybe coming
into college, how do you getstarted here?
What, what, what are the thingsto look out for?
What are the things to maybe toavoid?
How do you do this successfully?
Mick Hamilton (15:31):
You know, I think one, because this is, this is a
big topic just because mybackground recruiting and seeing
how it's kind of going with NIL,it's obviously completely
changed the way College F orcesis done now.
I think one focus on your craft
sport.
You know, the NIL deals willcome at t he end of the day,
they won't come if you can'tproduce once you get to that
school because a lot of athletesforget you could h ave been the
(15:54):
man or the female at your schooli n high school, but once you
get to the next level, it'sdifferent, right?
And so don't chase the NILdollars, find somewhere where
they can develop you, w herethey can turn you into the
athlete, where you can go makethe real dollars at the next
level.
But I'd say from high school,start posting alot.
Understand, you know, what areyour values?
What is your brand?
(16:14):
You know, what are, what's allabout you?
You know, why would, why dopeople follow you?
Post that kind of stuff and stayaway obviously, especially in
high school, any pictures whereyou kind of scratch your head
and say, is this a good look onme?
Um, because brands really dolook at that, you'd be
surprised, you know, I'd go on aSprouts farmer's market, we
wanted to do 50 deals withfemale athletes and we gave them
(16:35):
around 150 names and we went,dropped down back down to like
20 because it said, no, no, no,there was something we didn't
like.
There was a caption we didn'tlike.
It was all these things.
So it's really putting yourselfup, representing yourself as a
professional, um, because you'renot obviously representing just
your team now, yourself and yourfamily, but it can be a brand.
So I think one, focus on yourcraft, focus on all that kind of
(16:56):
stuff on the side.
Figure out what you like, postconstantly about it.
Don't care what people, mightmake fun of you for constantly
posting because at the end ofthe day, you're gonna be the one
who makes most of the dollarsand the people who don't want to
post, they're shy, they're toogood for it.
Just because they're a footballplayer or a good athlete doesn't
mean they're gonna get a lot ofmoney in NIL because they don't
necessarily bring that valueback to the brand.
Play the King (17:15):
Gotcha.
That's interesting.
Really.
That's good advice.
All right.
We talked about how agents, youknow, agencies, agents can get
involved.
I guess when I say agency, Ithink of like an advertising
agency.
I guess you have agents like whoare actually like actual agents
of these athletes you who arehelping out, right?
Mick Hamilton (17:31):
We work with both .
Play the King (17:33):
Yeah.
What would you leave us with?
We've talked about how each ofthese different entities can
sort of get involved.
I don't really see a downside todoing so what else would you say
here just to, to leave us with?
Mick Hamilton (17:44):
Yeah, I think, you know, one, I think a lot of
brands are trying to figure outhow to do this and even
marketing agencies where theyhave a few people who, you know
they know somebody at CAA andthey go to CAS and they go, Hey,
here's all of our athletesthat'll work.
Let's make it work.
And the big thing is that alltheir athletes might not be
(18:04):
perfect.
They might have one athlete,Rock Nation might have one
athlete, you know, Rosenhausmight have one athlete WME might
have another perfect athlete.
Instead of just going to oneperson who's trying to get all
their athletes paid with the onebrand, why not work with
professionals in a sense,especially with us, you know,
where we work with the tons ofmarketing agencies and we work
with, we have 600 plus sportsagents who utilize our platform
(18:26):
that is crazy.
So we can go and say, Hey, youknow, they might have the
perfect athlete, but maybe thatisn't necessarily the right one
too.
Because there's somebody overhere that can make sense.
Really, at the end of the day,our goal at Icon Source is to
amplify these campaigns, makesure the brands are happy and
they have the resources to beable to do marketing deals and
not be limited to it.
And that's our bread and butter.
(18:47):
That's what we're passionateabout, that's what we do.
And we're really, you know,we're not in it for the NIL
game.
We started on the pro side.
We're really in it to digitizethe entire sports marketing
space.
And really, I think it'd be coolseeing everybody, you know, even
a local kid in South Georgia, hehas his own, you know,
supporting a local business.
He grew up going to that kind ofstuff where those brands now
have the capabilities to workwith professionals, use a
(19:11):
platform with the resources andtechnology to help you succeed
and reach those goals.
Because this isn't easy and NILis so young, it is not easy.
And a lot of brands come to usafter they got really burnt and
we have everything checked off,all the boxes, and this is what
we do.
So,
Play the King (19:27):
Love it.
It's been really a pleasurespeaking with you.
Thank you for your passion forthis is really comes through
knowledge too.
Thank you.
So thanks for yeah, thanks forspending time with me and wish
you the best of luck.
Mick Hamilton (19:37):
Yeah, thanks George.
This was awesome.
I really appreciate it.
And looking forward to talkingto y'all after.
Play the King (19:43):
And, where can someone's listening to this and
wants to get involved with ifthey're interested, where can
they go to learn more and signup?
I know it's free for athletes,so there's no reason not to,
where do they go?
Mick Hamilton (19:53):
Yeah, it's an absolute no-brainer for
athletes.
They can go sign up on the app,just type in Icon Source on the
app store, either on Google Playor Apple store.
And it's completely free.
We don't take a single pennyfrom the college athlete.
And on the brand side, just goto iconsource.com, click sign up
.
You'll see brand plus marketing,you can create an account.
From there you can check it out,you can pick a plan.
(20:16):
If not, you can reach out to ourteam and we can have a further
discussion, see if this makessense, see what your goals are
and see if we can accomplishthem.
So we're really passionate.
Our group of people, you know,the college athletes are excited
to get onto our platform and wejust love bringing value to
everybody.
So feel free to reach out to us.
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