October 20, 2023 • 33 mins
As the Hostages Crisis is happening in Israel, Psychologist Dr.Emily Bashah and I had this important conversation where we discussed :
- How can a parent implement the idea of restorative justice versus retributive justice as they handle sibling fights?
- Is the American citizens (children) immune to extremism?
- How to speak with your kids about tragedies happening in the world?
Dr.Bashah is the author of the book "Additive Ideologies" and a licensed psychologist with a private practice in Scottsdale, Arizona. She is an expert witness in criminal, immigration, and civil courts, she has worked on high-profile cases covering issues of domestic terrorism capital offenses, and first-degree murder.
Dr. Bashah was awarded the Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues Policy Fellowship and served within the American Psychological Association’s Public Interest Government Relations Office in Washington, D.C. A frequent expert guest in media, Dr. Bashah clinically specializes in mental illness, personal and collective trauma, addiction and grief and loss, as well as family and relationship dynamics.
Relevant links:
The Optimistic American Podcast
#38 How to prevent extremism from childhood? with Dr.Emily Bashah PART A
#35 Consequences: The Magic of Natural and Logical Consequences In Parenting
As a certified parent coach, I aim to help you set boundaries with compassion.
So grab your FREE Compassionate Parenting Guides now!
You can also:
- Join an ONLINE workshop
- Contact me
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- Learn how I can help you.
Remember to treat yourself and your children with compassion and curiosity. 🫶
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:00):
In your book, you have something
that I really resonate with.
You talk aboutrestorative justice.
versus punitive justice inthe context of countries.
But I to ask you, when itcomes to sibling fights, how
do you implement that ideato help, parent be a better
Dr.Bashah (00:20):
parent?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:20):
Yeah, this
Dr.Bashah (00:21):
is a great topic.
yeah, I did a lot of
Tammy Afriat, (00:24):
research and work
Dr.Bashah (00:25):
on this, throughout my education,
and it's, really relevanteven today with our, like,
global politics andwhat's happening in the Middle
East.
retributive justice isthe notion of, revenge.
equated
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:41):
that.
It's an
Dr.Bashah (00:42):
eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
You hurt me, I'm going to hurtyou more.
So youlearn from it and you learn your
lesson.
we really don't see thatthere's a lot of benefit
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:52):
long term
Dr.Bashah (00:53):
because
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:54):
aren't
Dr.Bashah (00:54):
learning
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:56):
what.
Dr.Bashah (00:56):
what, they did wrong.
prevent.
being punished.
and so it's not reallydeveloping their emotional
intelligence or those pro socialnorms that I was describing
earlier.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:09):
restorative
Dr.Bashah (01:10):
justice really,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:12):
versus
Dr.Bashah (01:13):
retributive justice.
You have to rise above theemotion.
And so, We will not find theideal other than
in our minds and inour thoughts, but really, we,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:25):
we
Dr.Bashah (01:26):
should search for the ideal.
So platonic idealismpoints out that the
ideal that exists in our mindis more true than the shadows
we see here on earth.
So justice.
Has many roles to play and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:41):
one of
Dr.Bashah (01:41):
the roles, as I said, retributive is
that punishment to theindividual as well as removing
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:46):
threat from
Dr.Bashah (01:47):
society.
, the other role couldbe more restorative
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:51):
in nature,
Dr.Bashah (01:52):
which is to restore the
dignity, the civility, thecourage of a community
or an individualand to fulfill that promise.
Each life has.
To another, and this should
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:04):
especially
Dr.Bashah (02:05):
considered as it relates to minors where
restoration could offer a meansto shape, inform, teach, model,
and correct the offensivebehavior.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:17):
So
Dr.Bashah (02:17):
I have
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:18):
example.
I
Dr.Bashah (02:19):
was recently approached by parents.
And they,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:22):
they
Dr.Bashah (02:22):
have a child in school who was being,
bullied.
It was
Tammy Afriat, (02:26):
relational bully.
Dr.Bashah (02:28):
It wasn't a physical bully,
but it was very, manipulative,emotional bullying.
and this other.
minor was trying
Tammy Afriat, CP (02:38):
really control
Dr.Bashah (02:40):
and through threatening, and,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:43):
and
Dr.Bashah (02:43):
scare tactics to, um, get this other child to
do everything thatthey're saying, and
they're wanting,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:49):
So
Dr.Bashah (02:49):
without disclosing too much information,
I know thatseems quite vague, but
it's, it's a form ofrelational bullying.
So the
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:56):
came
Dr.Bashah (02:56):
in very concerned.
What should we do?
We want to pull our child
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:00):
out
Dr.Bashah (03:00):
of school and just move
them to another school, remove
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:03):
threat
Dr.Bashah (03:03):
completely.
and that way my child is safe.
and that's what we want to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:08):
And I said,
Dr.Bashah (03:09):
well, I don't operate on that model.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:12):
You
Dr.Bashah (03:12):
know, what are you teaching your child?
You're teachingyour child that that
you don't believe that they have
Tammy Afriat, CP (03:17):
skills and the
Dr.Bashah (03:18):
ability and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:18):
strength to
Dr.Bashah (03:19):
really handle it on their own.
And what we can do in terms ofpsychological
intervention is reallyarm your child with the
skills to set boundariesand limits and, to really
confront that otherchild head on.
and they, theycould still actually
preserve a relationship
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:38):
through that, but they're also learning how
Dr.Bashah (03:42):
to engage.
In that difficult
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:46):
with
Dr.Bashah (03:46):
their behaviors, with their words, with their actions,
rather than beingsaved and rescued by
, Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:51):
parental
Dr.Bashah (03:52):
figures,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:53):
and
Dr.Bashah (03:53):
it sends the message that the child is
capable and that youtrust them to be
able to do that.
And how powerful isthat even for the other child,
rather than just,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:05):
like,
Dr.Bashah (04:05):
being removed and the, you know,
then the conflict is.
Tammy Afriat, CP (04:08):
like resolved.
Dr.Bashah (04:09):
but what is that other
child learned that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:12):
they can
Dr.Bashah (04:12):
get
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:13):
with it
Dr.Bashah (04:13):
Really?
I mean, where's the justice inthat?
And so, you know, byarming the other child
who's like, essentially beingbullied in the situation
to be able to defend,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:24):
oneself.
uh, also
Dr.Bashah (04:26):
shape and inform and educate the other child
because it's sayinglike, okay, you can't
get away with this.
I'm not going to let you.
And here's why.
And here's the consequences,but Hey, I also care about
you and I worry about you
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:40):
and
Dr.Bashah (04:40):
I don't
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:41):
where
Dr.Bashah (04:41):
you're going.
And, you know, we used to befriends and now I'm seeing this
turn and change in you andI'm, concerned about you, that
there's this other, like
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:51):
the
Dr.Bashah (04:51):
shared humanity that we were talking about
earlier.
And so
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:55):
what
Dr.Bashah (04:55):
a powerful learning experience
and opportunity for boththe children involved
to be transformed and.
Tammy Afriat, (05:00):
to be transformed And
Dr.Bashah (05:02):
the beauty is It's an experiment.
It's all experimental.
We have no idea how
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:06):
this is
Dr.Bashah (05:06):
going to go.
We hope it goeswell, but it might not.
it could, it could get
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:11):
before
Dr.Bashah (05:11):
it gets better.
And sometimes, you know, inthe state of world politics,
that's what happens.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:16):
so, you know, what
Dr.Bashah (05:17):
better stage than a playground to
really learn these skillsat and,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:22):
you
Dr.Bashah (05:22):
know, to, to, also support our children.
It was interestingover the weekend, my
husband and I, we were having aconversation about, power
struggles with our,she's, she's, two, but she's
going to be turning three.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:36):
And
Dr.Bashah (05:36):
so his
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:38):
was,
Dr.Bashah (05:38):
well,
, Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:40):
you
Dr.Bashah (05:40):
know, I want to step in
as the authority.
I want her to respect me
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:43):
the
Dr.Bashah (05:44):
authority.
I want her to know that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:46):
my love is
Dr.Bashah (05:47):
conditional.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:48):
And I'm like, well, what
Dr.Bashah (05:48):
are you teaching her that?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:50):
That
Dr.Bashah (05:50):
your love is conditional
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:52):
based
Dr.Bashah (05:52):
on her following your orders
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:56):
directions.
What is that
Dr.Bashah (05:57):
actually
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:57):
teaching
Dr.Bashah (05:58):
her?
And you're, you'realso engaging in
this power struggle with her.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:03):
And
Dr.Bashah (06:04):
because you're saying, I'm going to win.
Like,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:07):
going to be
Dr.Bashah (06:07):
my way or no way.
And
Tammy Afriat, (06:09):
you want to fight me on
Dr.Bashah (06:10):
it, I'll just prolong the suffering.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:13):
What
Dr.Bashah (06:13):
is she learning through that process?
What are you teaching her?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:16):
And
Dr.Bashah (06:17):
so I had a similar situation
later in the day whereshe was engaging in a
power struggle with me.
We were going to her friend'shouse to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:26):
for
Dr.Bashah (06:26):
a play date.
Andimmediately when we got there,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:29):
started
Dr.Bashah (06:29):
screaming.
Screaming andthrowing a tantrum,
I wanna go home.
no.
No,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:34):
no, no.
And I was
Dr.Bashah (06:35):
embarrassed and my friend is there with a baby.
Her baby starts crying.
'cause mymy daughter's scream screaming
and throwing a tantrum.
Like, ah, okay.
So you know, I
Tammy (06:45):
said, well, let me just.
Take a
Dr.Bashah (06:47):
couple steps backward.
Let me not engage in thatpower struggle with her.
So I took her back
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:54):
the car.
Dr.Bashah (06:55):
I put her back in the car seat.
I buckled her in.
I started to give her
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:59):
of her
Dr.Bashah (07:00):
favorite things in the car and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:02):
to talk to her.
Dr.Bashah (07:03):
I left the door open.
So she started to come down and
Tammy Afria (07:06):
she felt secure and
Dr.Bashah (07:07):
safe in her car seat.
and my friend endedup coming outside with her baby.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:12):
we
Dr.Bashah (07:12):
had a little
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:13):
group
Dr.Bashah (07:14):
meeting and play date outside.
And, , you know, it tookabout maybe 20 minutes,
maybe 15, 20 minutes.
We're talking outside.
My daughter starts calming down.
Now
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:26):
kind
Dr.Bashah (07:26):
of curious about the other baby.
Now she's curious aboutthe conversations and
what's happening outside.
Then she's getting hungry.
So she starts asking for icecream.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:36):
So
Dr.Bashah (07:36):
eventually she's Willingly She now
wanted to go insideinto the house.
We stayed another two hours.
We had
Tammy Afriat, CP (07:44):
wonderful play
Dr.Bashah (07:45):
date.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:45):
was playing
Dr.Bashah (07:46):
with the dogs, playing catch
Tammy Afriat, CP (07:48):
with the ball.
And
Dr.Bashah (07:49):
she had so much fun.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:51):
And
Dr.Bashah (07:51):
at the end of the day, I
taught her, you see,you know, you were,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:55):
were
Dr.Bashah (07:55):
afraid and uncomfortable in the
beginning, but you know,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:58):
just had
Dr.Bashah (07:58):
to take our time and go back And
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:01):
Feel
Dr.Bashah (08:01):
comfortable.
And then we were ableto have a wonderful time and see
if
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:06):
hadn't stayed, you would, you
Dr.Bashah (08:07):
would, have missed
Tammy Afriat, (08:09):
all of that fun.
And, and wasn't
Dr.Bashah (08:11):
that
Tammy Afriat, (08:11):
much fun with the
Dr.Bashah (08:11):
dogs and the baby?
And, you know,so she, she's learning,
but I think there's so many
Tammy Afriat, (08:17):
lessons in there.
Dr.Bashah (08:18):
Like so much of the
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:19):
time
Dr.Bashah (08:19):
we want to engage in these power struggles.
And not just with ourchildren, with
other adults we're having
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:25):
with that we
Dr.Bashah (08:26):
ideologically disagree on.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:28):
we
Dr.Bashah (08:28):
want to win the
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:30):
because we
Dr.Bashah (08:31):
want to show that we're in control,
we want to feel we're incontrol.
but it's a
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:35):
lose
Dr.Bashah (08:35):
situation.
Sometimes we have to, acquiesce.
It
Tammy Afriat, (08:38):
necessarily mean
Dr.Bashah (08:39):
surrendering, but I like
Tammy Afriat, C (08:42):
think of it as, you know,
Dr.Bashah (08:44):
I come around the other
side, and I'm approachingthe problem with them rather
than against them ina power struggle.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:52):
Yeah, it's, it's trying to get to the
truth together rather thanproving that I have the truth.
Like, what areyou talking about?
Like, I know So, it's adifferent approach, and I
also find it so much moreeffective when we kind
of, research together.
And so we get to maybe somenew conclusion, maybe not,
(09:13):
which is also okay, but atleast we have the option to
have a real dialogue and nota monologue, like two people
having just a mock one.
So I totally whatthey're saying.
And I wanted to go back withthe thing about sibling fights
and parent actually embracing.
their restorativejustice versus, you know,
punishing the child.
(09:34):
So what I'm hearing he's saying,rather than having the, parents
be the judge, quote unquote,he needs to more coach his
children, kind of navigatethe situation, understand what
the other person or the othersibling really wanted and what
led him to behave the way hedid, and so they can be more.
(09:57):
I like to call it effective intheir communication because,
you know, with siblings,you'll have them forever.
So you have a great interestto learn to live with them.
So, that's what I wassensing when you talked about
those two kind of justiceand I love the idea of it.
So thank you so much forsharing that.
Dr.Bashah (10:17):
Yeah.
Coaching is a great way topreface it.
Absolutely.
Like your role as aparent is not
to, go in and be the judge and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (10:25):
definitive
Dr.Bashah (10:26):
authority and, and, to punish like,
Tammy Afriat, CP (10:28):
okay, you time
Dr.Bashah (10:29):
out, you give this person
that it's like reallyequipping them.
with resolving theconflict together on
their own and helping
Tammy Afriat, (10:38):
see, okay, well,
Dr.Bashah (10:38):
what are the consequences if
Tammy Afri (10:40):
we change places and
Dr.Bashah (10:42):
I was them,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (10:43):
how would
Dr.Bashah (10:43):
I feel about the situation?
So there's
Tammy Afriat, C (10:45):
appreciation of theory of mind.
And,
Dr.Bashah (10:49):
you know, what is a fair outcome?
What does even fairness mean?
How do you assess fairness?
and sometimes you haveto give something to win
something.
What is a win win look likefor both parties rather
than a win lose situation foreither one?
and helping them develop theskills to negotiate that
together is Very powerful.
(11:11):
Very, very powerful.
Yeah.
I commend you on
Tammy Afriat, CPC (11:13):
that work.
It is,
Dr.Bashah (11:15):
it is, It can be exhausting.
It takes so much pauseand presence and patience.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (11:22):
Yeah, I you know, as a parent
coach, I'm familiarwith the drama triangle.
And I love to use it just asan effective way, to handle
kiddos, let them to advocate forthemselves, stand up themselves.
And actually home is a lab.
It's like they'reexperimenting all those kinds
of scenarios in the house.
So let them do that.
(11:43):
And so they can learnthose skills and can it
out of the house when theybe bullied outside.
, as you said, you are morepowerful when you can advocate
for yourself and solve the,the situation, which circle
back to being an agency, right?
Because when you choose, evenif you had bad experiences,
(12:05):
when you choose the goodover the evil, then you have
the power, like you get thatyou have the power to change
whatever you want, you know,to envision for yourself.
Does that make sense?
Dr.Bashah (12:19):
Absolutely.
.
Yes.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:20):
And, in this way you are, you're
Dr.Bashah (12:23):
raising leaders,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:24):
You know, you're raising
Dr.Bashah (12:25):
children to be free thinkers,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:28):
to have
Dr.Bashah (12:28):
a moral
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:29):
compass,
Dr.Bashah (12:30):
to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:31):
them with
Dr.Bashah (12:32):
ego strength.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:33):
teaching them that
Dr.Bashah (12:35):
they're not so fragile,
that they, they're strong.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:39):
You
Dr.Bashah (12:39):
believe
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:39):
their, in their capability to
handle whatever coming.
In their way, I totallyunderstand that and , I want
to ask you We see extremismfar away, it's in the Middle
East, do you think that theAmerican citizen, specifically
also are immune to extremism?
Dr.Bashah (13:00):
Yeah, I mean, youth and Children are vulnerable
and impressionable population
Tammy Afriat, (13:06):
because of where
Dr.Bashah (13:07):
they're at developmentally.
And
Tammy Afriat, (13:09):
absolutely, they
Dr.Bashah (13:10):
are susceptible also to becoming extremist.
And it's
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:16):
just as
Dr.Bashah (13:17):
adults, you know, when you have a simple
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:20):
solution
Dr.Bashah (13:21):
or a simplified
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:24):
for a complex problem, it becomes easier to
Dr.Bashah (13:28):
wrap your head
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:29):
it
Dr.Bashah (13:29):
and then the solution becomes oversimplified.
Like just blame them.
You know,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:35):
this
Dr.Bashah (13:36):
is the good guy.
This
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:37):
the bad
Dr.Bashah (13:37):
guy.
This
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:38):
the enemy,
Dr.Bashah (13:39):
and, it's hard to really deconstruct that.
and the tendency is itstarts to reduce our fear and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:46):
because
Dr.Bashah (13:47):
we want to.
Experience a sense
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:49):
control in a
Dr.Bashah (13:50):
world that we feel is unpredictable,
especially when we have,you know, there, there
is like this anticipatory
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:58):
We
Dr.Bashah (13:58):
don't know what's going to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:59):
tomorrow.
Dr.Bashah (14:00):
Who's going to try to attack us again
tomorrow?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:02):
Who's
Dr.Bashah (14:03):
attacking Western democracy tomorrow?
You know, what, what are wehere for?
Like, how long do we have
Tammy Afriat, CP (14:09):
preserve this?
, if we really
Dr.Bashah (14:11):
allowed ourselves to be confronted with
that dilemma
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:16):
and
Dr.Bashah (14:16):
that cognitive dissonance I was
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:18):
about
Dr.Bashah (14:18):
earlier, you have to do deeper
work, and there'sdeeper questions that are there.
And so I thinkit's fruitful to have
those conversations with.
Tammy Afriat, (14:27):
adolescents, and that
Dr.Bashah (14:29):
are age appropriate, developmentally appropriate
to help educate them and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:34):
them
Dr.Bashah (14:35):
with really understanding and doing that
deeper level questioningand grappling with it.
Tammy Afr (14:42):
So gravitating toward addicting ideologies.
Comes more to the adolescent,not as early as the toddler, but
there is work that we mentionedthat can be done to avoid, our
kiddos that might be trappedinto those kind of extremism.
behaviors, right?
(15:02):
Yes.
Dr.Bashah (15:03):
Yeah.
I think, you know, there'sthe radicalization and
extremism groups that, youknow, really prey upon the
awkwardness andinsecurities of adolescence.
But,
Tammy Afriat, (15:15):
you know, we saw
Dr.Bashah (15:15):
these experiments,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (15:17):
with
Dr.Bashah (15:18):
children where, a teacher was trying
to really understand andreplicate what happened
in Nazi Germany.
And she separated herclass between the blue eyes.
And the brown eyes.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (15:30):
And she
Dr.Bashah (15:31):
said, okay, if you have these colored eyes,
you are better and smarter andmore superior than
the group with theother colored eyes.
and and you see like within aday.
Yeah, they were
Tammy Afriat, (15:44):
aggressive to the
Dr.Bashah (15:45):
other groups.
Theystarted to gravitate towards
Tammy Afriat, (15:48):
with the same eye
Dr.Bashah (15:49):
color as them.
And this is
Tammy Afriat, CPC (15:51):
you
Dr.Bashah (15:51):
know, an artificial experiment.
You couldn't do that today,obviously, but this
teacher, like it, was amazing.
She documented it, shefilmed it and, and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:01):
was
Dr.Bashah (16:01):
able to.
Radicalize these
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:05):
children
Dr.Bashah (16:06):
based on the color of their eyes.
And so if
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:09):
think
Dr.Bashah (16:10):
about that, you know, the,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:12):
the inherent
Dr.Bashah (16:14):
of separateness that things that separate
us into groups and things thatre gravitate towards
in in a way that justifies
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:22):
dehumanizes
Dr.Bashah (16:23):
dehumanizes the other group
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:26):
makes us
Dr.Bashah (16:26):
us.
hateful, makes us angry, makesus
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:30):
to
Dr.Bashah (16:30):
defend ourselves against these other out groups.
This
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:33):
dangerous.
Dr.Bashah (16:34):
And toddlers are just as susceptible to this.
Again, it's a verysimple, it's not complex.
and I think we're allnot immune to it.
And it's.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:44):
It's all
Dr.Bashah (16:45):
possible.
There's so much propaganda
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:47):
and
Dr.Bashah (16:48):
distorted content on social media.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:52):
It's hard
Dr.Bashah (16:52):
to know, like, what
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:54):
trustworthy
Dr.Bashah (16:55):
news, what is fake news.
There'sso many conspiracy theories
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:58):
that
Dr.Bashah (16:58):
are out there.
you know, so it's atime of paranoia and distrust.
And so I think, you know, wealso have
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:04):
be careful
Dr.Bashah (17:04):
as adults, what we expose ourselves to, and looking
at multiple media sources andsearching for credible news and
information that isn't so factdistorting or conspiracy driven.
the other thing, you know, Iwant to mention for kiddos,
especially, and also for adults,that there's this
amygdala hijack.
(17:27):
what what
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:28):
means
Dr.Bashah (17:29):
means is that people who
want to influence us,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:31):
if they
Dr.Bashah (17:32):
give us information
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:33):
makes
Dr.Bashah (17:33):
us feel terrorized or,
create an existential crisis,we stop
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:39):
our frontal lobe because
Dr.Bashah (17:41):
now our limbic
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:42):
is activated.
It's a primitive
Dr.Bashah (17:44):
part of our brain.
We go intothis fight, flight, freeze
response system, andwe can't necessarily
think rationally.
About
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:53):
happening or
Dr.Bashah (17:53):
think about, consequences, and we act more
impulsively because we don't
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:58):
that
Dr.Bashah (17:59):
behavioral disinhibition or ability to
see rationallyor logically or way
scientific evidence.
And so,that is a tactic, that media
uses that radicalizers use.
so I think it's important just
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:13):
being aware of when that's
Dr.Bashah (18:16):
employed when we feel that way.
That we should probablyreally step away,
do some self care activities,really ground and root ourselves
and come back and reallythink very critically
about the issue ratherthan just responding,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:32):
out
Dr.Bashah (18:32):
of habit or reactivity or impulsively
because that's what we'rereally.
Giving up our power and controlover the situation so
we can also teachour kiddos that
adults have tantrums too.
I seen it.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:47):
it.
I don't,
Dr.Bashah (18:48):
politicians have temper tantrums.
Adults have
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:51):
tantrums.
Dr.Bashah (18:51):
Leaders have temper tantrums.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:53):
Oh, I liked what you said about the
amygdala hijack, because itcircles back again to being
a parent and teach yourchild how to consume content.
It's, I also callit the content diet.
So I love how you said.
you know what?
When you see something andit kind of makes you really
(19:13):
fear, and you know, you canactually it in your brain when
it activates you and then yourbrain is just in a circle.
I feel it like, like youhave to run away, run away.
You know, that's what I,when I see such things,
I'm like, it's impossible.
It's impossible.
That makes me, that's likethe sign for me to say no.
That's not something Iwant to engage anymore.
(19:34):
want to stop that and thenI need to take some time
to, regulate myself, maybe?
And I can continue and mayberesearch that topic and be
more educated about it, butwith a lot of conscious and
awareness of how do I get the...
Data, you know, the factsand asking Even before
(19:58):
I'm, Google searching.
I'm asking myself, whatare the things that I want
to get the answer for?
So I'm not going to beinto this rabbit hole.
of people fitting me withstuff that they want to
fit me with the propaganda.
So, I like your note aboutbe aware of the content.
Even as an adult that you'reconsuming and learn to control
(20:19):
that for yourself and alsoteach your child, coach
your child to do the same.
So thank you for this tip.
tip.
It's great.
I love it.
Yeah.
And speaking of social media,with everything that's going
on with Hamas in Israel,there are many of Horrible
videos, horrible pictures.
I think for an adultit's so hard to process.
(20:41):
I would love to hear your advicearound how do you talk about
those things with your children.
Also, how early do youstart talking about those
things and how do youpresent the topic at all?
Dr.Bashah (20:54):
Yeah, yeah, I was
Tammy Afriat, C (20:55):
to my family in
Dr.Bashah (20:57):
Israel.
and also my cousins and,It's challenging.
I think children do.
Pick up onwhat's happening, even
if they don't understandit, they might overhear
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:10):
some
Dr.Bashah (21:10):
conversations as parents are
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:13):
the
Dr.Bashah (21:13):
news, maybe hearing,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:15):
the
Dr.Bashah (21:16):
anger or
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:17):
Even, oh no! Mm
Dr.Bashah (21:21):
unsure what's happening Like.
Like, why why
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:25):
my mom
Dr.Bashah (21:25):
crying?
Why, why is my dadgetting angrier?
And he seems to be moreirritable and
temperamental these days.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:33):
they
Dr.Bashah (21:33):
may not be able to draw the
conclusions themselves.
And so I think
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:38):
the
Dr.Bashah (21:38):
biggest thing is, protecting
children, but you don't have
Tammy Afriat, (21:42):
entirely shelter
Dr.Bashah (21:43):
them.
I think, there's noright or wrong answer.
And I just want to say, youknow, every child is different
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:49):
and,
Dr.Bashah (21:50):
Different ages
Tammy Afriat, CP (21:51):
children, very
Dr.Bas (21:52):
developmentally, there's just so much variability
that's out there.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:55):
and so
Dr.Bashah (21:56):
for parents, you really should.
Trust your intuitionon this one.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:00):
and
Dr.Bashah (22:00):
not force anything onto your Children.
but really maybe create a spacea safe place for them to ask you
questions
Tammy Afr (22:09):
about what's going on
Dr.Bashah (22:10):
and just say, there are some things going on
in the world today.
Is there anything that you'veheard or maybe was mentioned
at school or maybe you heardShades of Noir You know,
mommy and I talkingabout what have you heard?
Is there anyconcerns that you have?
And so,just asking them so that they,
it's more like their own.
inquiry that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:31):
really
Dr.Bashah (22:31):
leading the information.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:33):
So
Dr.Bashah (22:33):
you're not just giving them lots
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:35):
information
Dr.Bashah (22:36):
that they then can't process.
The most important thingis that your children feel safe,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:41):
that school
Dr.Bashah (22:41):
is safe,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:43):
home
Dr.Bashah (22:43):
is safe.
And really creating that, that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:46):
of
Dr.Bashah (22:46):
safety and security for them,
emotionally and physically,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:50):
and
Dr.Bashah (22:50):
knowing that their parents are
going to be constant,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:53):
and they
Dr.Bashah (22:53):
can rely on that constancy,
from caregivers.
It could
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:57):
any,
Dr.Bashah (22:57):
any of their caregivers.
And so I think that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:01):
is
Dr.Bashah (23:01):
so important,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:03):
to keep them
Dr.Bashah (23:04):
mentally and emotionally
healthy, you know, so.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:08):
Some
Dr.Bashah (23:08):
of my cousins who've, you know, I've asked
Tammy Afria (23:11):
about this approach
Dr.Bashah (23:12):
and because they're not, so
removed from thesituation and we have
family in Israel, sothey, may show certain things.
Like one of my cousins decided
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:22):
going
Dr.Bashah (23:22):
to show the Biden speech about Israel.
So Biden, you
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:25):
will
Dr.Bashah (23:25):
mention words like war and.
Identifying Hamas as a terroristorganization that we will fight
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:31):
protect
Dr.Bashah (23:32):
Israel.
We will defend Israelagainst their enemies.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:35):
so
Dr.Bashah (23:35):
not condoning anything about these
attacks with referenceto attacks.
So there's things that arein his speech, but it's also.
Supportive.
It's also, comforting to hearlike, okay,
America is an ally to Israel.
They're not going to, allowthem, to be harmed.
They're going tosupport them as an
ally, and that will help to givethem.
(23:57):
confidence andhope and optimism.
and so,you know, it might be something
like that, that you watchwith them and then be there
to see their reaction.
Let them
Tammy Afriat, CP (24:06):
you questions.
Dr.Bashah (24:07):
you know, again, developmentally appropriate.
Mycousin decided to do this with
her son,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:12):
12 years
Dr.Bashah (24:13):
old and, has already
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:15):
You
Dr.Bashah (24:15):
know, has understanding
of, things that arehappening so I think that's
important.
We, you know, wecertainly don't want
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:21):
raise
Dr.Bashah (24:21):
the children in,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:22):
an
Dr.Bashah (24:22):
over sheltered bubble so that they
can learn from theseexperiences, but the most
important that they feel
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:27):
feel
Dr.Bashah (24:28):
safe, they know
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:29):
family is
Dr.Bashah (24:29):
safe,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:30):
basically to say, you are safe, you're safe,
in school, although something,is happening in the world.
and.
Not to bombard them withfacts only if they're asking
And last thing is , tosummer it up with some kind
of an optimistic statement.
Dr.Bashah (24:48):
Yeah, Yeah, you know, I was, seeking community
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:52):
my
Dr.Bashah (24:53):
own grief and, uh, we, there were gatherings
and, candlelighting for Shabbatand, it was very powerful
for me to feel that strength.
Tammy Afriat, (25:02):
in community, but
Dr.Bashah (25:03):
also be able
Tammy Afria (25:04):
grieve collectively
Dr.Bashah (25:05):
with community,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:06):
and
Dr.Bashah (25:06):
I think that's a wonderful
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:07):
for
Dr.Bashah (25:08):
Children, to attend and to participate in
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:12):
be a part
Dr.Bashah (25:12):
of, And I think, you know.
There's a holocaust survivor whosaid we will never
show them defeator fear because we
are not afraid, we are strong,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:22):
and we
Dr.Bashah (25:22):
will always, overcome.
Tammy Afriat, (25:24):
And it's just so
Dr.Bashah (25:25):
powerful to hear, survivors.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:28):
Speak from
Dr.Bashah (25:29):
that place of strength.
And I think we must honor them.
And there's, beautiful,powerful Jewish saying
had the opportunity to hear manysurvivors speak
over the weekend.
People
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:39):
were
Dr.Bashah (25:40):
in Israel
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:41):
who had
Dr.Bashah (25:41):
witnessed, the, the attacks or, had
witnessed stories retoldof the attacks from
survivors perspectives and.
one commontheme that really came out was,
there were so many heroes.
And
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:57):
they
Dr.Bashah (25:58):
asked the heroes, like,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:59):
did you
Dr.Bashah (25:59):
go into those pillaging
fires and saving peopleand risking your life to go
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:06):
save
Dr.Bashah (26:06):
another?
and they said, well, if not me,then who?
And I think that'sjust such a powerful,
statement and it'sembedded in the identity
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:15):
of the
Dr.Bashah (26:16):
Jewish people.
Like,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:17):
if I'm
Dr.Bashah (26:18):
not going to save
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:18):
who's going
Dr.Bashah (26:19):
to save me, you know, if not me, then
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:22):
who's going
Dr.Bashah (26:22):
to be there for us.
And, there is the sense of,family and solidarity and unity
and, and collectiveness andthat we come together, despite,
you
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:33):
well, because
Dr.Bashah (26:34):
of our collective trauma.
that we are unitedas a result of it and stronger
as a result of it.
And I, think.
You know, even if you'renot Jewish, like these, like
learning from that, comingtogether
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:47):
rather
Dr.Bashah (26:48):
than grieving alone, seeking and building
and fostering a
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:52):
of
Dr.Bashah (26:52):
identity and cohesion and community,
that helps you to bestronger in a pro social way,
that,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:00):
that is so
Dr.Bashah (27:01):
incredibly important.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:02):
it's again, choosing the good
and choosing to move on in apositive way and not choosing
to take that resentmentor hateness into more violence.
Mm-hmm.
.So I think that'sthe real heroes are.
yeah.
(27:23):
Do you have anything elseyou would like to share with
us or, tips you want to givethe parents as they raise
their children and cope with.
with Nowadays, challengeswith these horrific,
Tragedies that's going on.
Yeah,
Dr.Bashah (27:38):
I think, you know, really maintaining
the hope and Tammy, justas you and I are doing
and even our owngrief and suffering,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:47):
we're finding
Dr.Bashah (27:48):
meaning and doing these podcasts.
We're findingmeaning and educating.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:53):
the
Dr.Bashah (27:53):
public.
We're finding meaning in beingactive, not passive.
And, I really encourage othersto do the same and finding
what resonates with themand what they feel is going
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:05):
be
Dr.Bashah (28:05):
meaningful and purposeful for them so
that they don't feelso helpless.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:10):
think
Dr.Bashah (28:10):
a common thing that I'm hearing across people is.
Um, just not knowing whatto do, feeling so helpless.
And so Ithink going more into that
active mobilizingrole is going to help people,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:23):
process,
Dr.Bashah (28:24):
through their grief and grow stronger.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:27):
as
Dr.Bashah (28:27):
a result of what has happened, I do want to say we
do have a podcast.
It's the OptimisticAmerican, and if
you go there, we do
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:37):
a
Dr.Bashah (28:37):
lot of different tips and strategies
that we've pulled out of thebook Addictive Ideologies
and made separate podcastson them, so there are
a lot of tools that we like toequip people with, using
psychological, principles,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:52):
And
Dr.Bashah (28:53):
there's
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:54):
that
Dr.Bashah (28:54):
we created as well for , parents,
raising children.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:59):
you know
Dr.Bashah (28:59):
of somebody or loved one that's fallen,
trapped to theseaddictive ideologies,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (29:04):
you can
Dr.Bashah (29:04):
do to help them.
So there's a lot of, thingsand resources there that
we like to give away.
Tammy Afriat, (29:10):
benefit people's
Dr.Bashah (29:11):
lives, and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (29:12):
we're happy
Dr.Bashah (29:13):
to help.
So please reach out if
Tammy Afriat, (29:15):
anything further
Dr.Bashah (29:16):
that we can do.
Tammy Afria (29:17):
This This is great.
And I appreciate a lot the bookthat you wrote it's so powerful
and really gives, I think,it's point that each person has
the choice and you help peoplemake let's say, the.
positive over their life.
So thank you so much for takingthe time being with me today,
(29:40):
sharing your own familyexperiences and from your
psychological background, andso I was really honored to
have you with me, thank you somuch.
Oh, the pleasure
Dr.Bashah (29:52):
and honor is all mine, Tammy.
Thank you Thank you so
Tammy Afriat, CPC (29:55):
much.
Last thing forour listeners, all
the links to yourpodcast and website.
it will be on the show notes.
so go ahead and look into that.
Dr.Bashah (30:05):
Great.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Our book can bebought on Amazon.
It's online.
Paul and I also dictate it.
And, uh, you'll also hear mymother's voice on there as well.
If you wantto hear the audio book.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (30:17):
Oh, that's amazing.
I didn't know thatI've read the book.
I didn't, I didn'tlook for the audio.
So I'm going to think if I wantto do a read here right now.
Thank you so much, Tammy.
Dr.Bashah (30:31):
You're amazing.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (30:32):
appreciate
Dr.Bashah (30:33):
you and all the work You're doing.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (30:35):
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
Thank you.
In your book, you have something
that I really resonate with.
You talk aboutrestorative justice.
versus punitive justice inthe context of countries.
But I to ask you, when itcomes to sibling fights, how
do you implement that ideato help, parent be a better
Dr.Bashah (00:20):
parent?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:20):
Yeah, this
Dr.Bashah (00:21):
is a great topic.
yeah, I did a lot of
Tammy Afriat, (00:24):
research and work
Dr.Bashah (00:25):
on this, throughout my education,
and it's, really relevanteven today with our, like,
global politics andwhat's happening in the Middle
East.
retributive justice isthe notion of, revenge.
equated
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:41):
that.
It's an
Dr.Bashah (00:42):
eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
You hurt me, I'm going to hurtyou more.
So youlearn from it and you learn your
lesson.
we really don't see thatthere's a lot of benefit
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:52):
long term
Dr.Bashah (00:53):
because
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:54):
aren't
Dr.Bashah (00:54):
learning
Tammy Afriat, CPC (00:56):
what.
Dr.Bashah (00:56):
what, they did wrong.
prevent.
being punished.
and so it's not reallydeveloping their emotional
intelligence or those pro socialnorms that I was describing
earlier.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:09):
restorative
Dr.Bashah (01:10):
justice really,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:12):
versus
Dr.Bashah (01:13):
retributive justice.
You have to rise above theemotion.
And so, We will not find theideal other than
in our minds and inour thoughts, but really, we,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:25):
we
Dr.Bashah (01:26):
should search for the ideal.
So platonic idealismpoints out that the
ideal that exists in our mindis more true than the shadows
we see here on earth.
So justice.
Has many roles to play and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:41):
one of
Dr.Bashah (01:41):
the roles, as I said, retributive is
that punishment to theindividual as well as removing
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:46):
threat from
Dr.Bashah (01:47):
society.
, the other role couldbe more restorative
Tammy Afriat, CPC (01:51):
in nature,
Dr.Bashah (01:52):
which is to restore the
dignity, the civility, thecourage of a community
or an individualand to fulfill that promise.
Each life has.
To another, and this should
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:04):
especially
Dr.Bashah (02:05):
considered as it relates to minors where
restoration could offer a meansto shape, inform, teach, model,
and correct the offensivebehavior.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:17):
So
Dr.Bashah (02:17):
I have
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:18):
example.
I
Dr.Bashah (02:19):
was recently approached by parents.
And they,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:22):
they
Dr.Bashah (02:22):
have a child in school who was being,
bullied.
It was
Tammy Afriat, (02:26):
relational bully.
Dr.Bashah (02:28):
It wasn't a physical bully,
but it was very, manipulative,emotional bullying.
and this other.
minor was trying
Tammy Afriat, CP (02:38):
really control
Dr.Bashah (02:40):
and through threatening, and,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:43):
and
Dr.Bashah (02:43):
scare tactics to, um, get this other child to
do everything thatthey're saying, and
they're wanting,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:49):
So
Dr.Bashah (02:49):
without disclosing too much information,
I know thatseems quite vague, but
it's, it's a form ofrelational bullying.
So the
Tammy Afriat, CPC (02:56):
came
Dr.Bashah (02:56):
in very concerned.
What should we do?
We want to pull our child
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:00):
out
Dr.Bashah (03:00):
of school and just move
them to another school, remove
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:03):
threat
Dr.Bashah (03:03):
completely.
and that way my child is safe.
and that's what we want to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:08):
And I said,
Dr.Bashah (03:09):
well, I don't operate on that model.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:12):
You
Dr.Bashah (03:12):
know, what are you teaching your child?
You're teachingyour child that that
you don't believe that they have
Tammy Afriat, CP (03:17):
skills and the
Dr.Bashah (03:18):
ability and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:18):
strength to
Dr.Bashah (03:19):
really handle it on their own.
And what we can do in terms ofpsychological
intervention is reallyarm your child with the
skills to set boundariesand limits and, to really
confront that otherchild head on.
and they, theycould still actually
preserve a relationship
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:38):
through that, but they're also learning how
Dr.Bashah (03:42):
to engage.
In that difficult
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:46):
with
Dr.Bashah (03:46):
their behaviors, with their words, with their actions,
rather than beingsaved and rescued by
, Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:51):
parental
Dr.Bashah (03:52):
figures,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (03:53):
and
Dr.Bashah (03:53):
it sends the message that the child is
capable and that youtrust them to be
able to do that.
And how powerful isthat even for the other child,
rather than just,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:05):
like,
Dr.Bashah (04:05):
being removed and the, you know,
then the conflict is.
Tammy Afriat, CP (04:08):
like resolved.
Dr.Bashah (04:09):
but what is that other
child learned that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:12):
they can
Dr.Bashah (04:12):
get
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:13):
with it
Dr.Bashah (04:13):
Really?
I mean, where's the justice inthat?
And so, you know, byarming the other child
who's like, essentially beingbullied in the situation
to be able to defend,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:24):
oneself.
uh, also
Dr.Bashah (04:26):
shape and inform and educate the other child
because it's sayinglike, okay, you can't
get away with this.
I'm not going to let you.
And here's why.
And here's the consequences,but Hey, I also care about
you and I worry about you
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:40):
and
Dr.Bashah (04:40):
I don't
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:41):
where
Dr.Bashah (04:41):
you're going.
And, you know, we used to befriends and now I'm seeing this
turn and change in you andI'm, concerned about you, that
there's this other, like
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:51):
the
Dr.Bashah (04:51):
shared humanity that we were talking about
earlier.
And so
Tammy Afriat, CPC (04:55):
what
Dr.Bashah (04:55):
a powerful learning experience
and opportunity for boththe children involved
to be transformed and.
Tammy Afriat, (05:00):
to be transformed And
Dr.Bashah (05:02):
the beauty is It's an experiment.
It's all experimental.
We have no idea how
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:06):
this is
Dr.Bashah (05:06):
going to go.
We hope it goeswell, but it might not.
it could, it could get
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:11):
before
Dr.Bashah (05:11):
it gets better.
And sometimes, you know, inthe state of world politics,
that's what happens.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:16):
so, you know, what
Dr.Bashah (05:17):
better stage than a playground to
really learn these skillsat and,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:22):
you
Dr.Bashah (05:22):
know, to, to, also support our children.
It was interestingover the weekend, my
husband and I, we were having aconversation about, power
struggles with our,she's, she's, two, but she's
going to be turning three.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:36):
And
Dr.Bashah (05:36):
so his
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:38):
was,
Dr.Bashah (05:38):
well,
, Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:40):
you
Dr.Bashah (05:40):
know, I want to step in
as the authority.
I want her to respect me
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:43):
the
Dr.Bashah (05:44):
authority.
I want her to know that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:46):
my love is
Dr.Bashah (05:47):
conditional.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:48):
And I'm like, well, what
Dr.Bashah (05:48):
are you teaching her that?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:50):
That
Dr.Bashah (05:50):
your love is conditional
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:52):
based
Dr.Bashah (05:52):
on her following your orders
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:56):
directions.
What is that
Dr.Bashah (05:57):
actually
Tammy Afriat, CPC (05:57):
teaching
Dr.Bashah (05:58):
her?
And you're, you'realso engaging in
this power struggle with her.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:03):
And
Dr.Bashah (06:04):
because you're saying, I'm going to win.
Like,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:07):
going to be
Dr.Bashah (06:07):
my way or no way.
And
Tammy Afriat, (06:09):
you want to fight me on
Dr.Bashah (06:10):
it, I'll just prolong the suffering.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:13):
What
Dr.Bashah (06:13):
is she learning through that process?
What are you teaching her?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:16):
And
Dr.Bashah (06:17):
so I had a similar situation
later in the day whereshe was engaging in a
power struggle with me.
We were going to her friend'shouse to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:26):
for
Dr.Bashah (06:26):
a play date.
Andimmediately when we got there,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:29):
started
Dr.Bashah (06:29):
screaming.
Screaming andthrowing a tantrum,
I wanna go home.
no.
No,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:34):
no, no.
And I was
Dr.Bashah (06:35):
embarrassed and my friend is there with a baby.
Her baby starts crying.
'cause mymy daughter's scream screaming
and throwing a tantrum.
Like, ah, okay.
So you know, I
Tammy (06:45):
said, well, let me just.
Take a
Dr.Bashah (06:47):
couple steps backward.
Let me not engage in thatpower struggle with her.
So I took her back
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:54):
the car.
Dr.Bashah (06:55):
I put her back in the car seat.
I buckled her in.
I started to give her
Tammy Afriat, CPC (06:59):
of her
Dr.Bashah (07:00):
favorite things in the car and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:02):
to talk to her.
Dr.Bashah (07:03):
I left the door open.
So she started to come down and
Tammy Afria (07:06):
she felt secure and
Dr.Bashah (07:07):
safe in her car seat.
and my friend endedup coming outside with her baby.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:12):
we
Dr.Bashah (07:12):
had a little
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:13):
group
Dr.Bashah (07:14):
meeting and play date outside.
And, , you know, it tookabout maybe 20 minutes,
maybe 15, 20 minutes.
We're talking outside.
My daughter starts calming down.
Now
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:26):
kind
Dr.Bashah (07:26):
of curious about the other baby.
Now she's curious aboutthe conversations and
what's happening outside.
Then she's getting hungry.
So she starts asking for icecream.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:36):
So
Dr.Bashah (07:36):
eventually she's Willingly She now
wanted to go insideinto the house.
We stayed another two hours.
We had
Tammy Afriat, CP (07:44):
wonderful play
Dr.Bashah (07:45):
date.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:45):
was playing
Dr.Bashah (07:46):
with the dogs, playing catch
Tammy Afriat, CP (07:48):
with the ball.
And
Dr.Bashah (07:49):
she had so much fun.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:51):
And
Dr.Bashah (07:51):
at the end of the day, I
taught her, you see,you know, you were,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:55):
were
Dr.Bashah (07:55):
afraid and uncomfortable in the
beginning, but you know,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (07:58):
just had
Dr.Bashah (07:58):
to take our time and go back And
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:01):
Feel
Dr.Bashah (08:01):
comfortable.
And then we were ableto have a wonderful time and see
if
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:06):
hadn't stayed, you would, you
Dr.Bashah (08:07):
would, have missed
Tammy Afriat, (08:09):
all of that fun.
And, and wasn't
Dr.Bashah (08:11):
that
Tammy Afriat, (08:11):
much fun with the
Dr.Bashah (08:11):
dogs and the baby?
And, you know,so she, she's learning,
but I think there's so many
Tammy Afriat, (08:17):
lessons in there.
Dr.Bashah (08:18):
Like so much of the
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:19):
time
Dr.Bashah (08:19):
we want to engage in these power struggles.
And not just with ourchildren, with
other adults we're having
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:25):
with that we
Dr.Bashah (08:26):
ideologically disagree on.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:28):
we
Dr.Bashah (08:28):
want to win the
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:30):
because we
Dr.Bashah (08:31):
want to show that we're in control,
we want to feel we're incontrol.
but it's a
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:35):
lose
Dr.Bashah (08:35):
situation.
Sometimes we have to, acquiesce.
It
Tammy Afriat, (08:38):
necessarily mean
Dr.Bashah (08:39):
surrendering, but I like
Tammy Afriat, C (08:42):
think of it as, you know,
Dr.Bashah (08:44):
I come around the other
side, and I'm approachingthe problem with them rather
than against them ina power struggle.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (08:52):
Yeah, it's, it's trying to get to the
truth together rather thanproving that I have the truth.
Like, what areyou talking about?
Like, I know So, it's adifferent approach, and I
also find it so much moreeffective when we kind
of, research together.
And so we get to maybe somenew conclusion, maybe not,
(09:13):
which is also okay, but atleast we have the option to
have a real dialogue and nota monologue, like two people
having just a mock one.
So I totally whatthey're saying.
And I wanted to go back withthe thing about sibling fights
and parent actually embracing.
their restorativejustice versus, you know,
punishing the child.
(09:34):
So what I'm hearing he's saying,rather than having the, parents
be the judge, quote unquote,he needs to more coach his
children, kind of navigatethe situation, understand what
the other person or the othersibling really wanted and what
led him to behave the way hedid, and so they can be more.
(09:57):
I like to call it effective intheir communication because,
you know, with siblings,you'll have them forever.
So you have a great interestto learn to live with them.
So, that's what I wassensing when you talked about
those two kind of justiceand I love the idea of it.
So thank you so much forsharing that.
Dr.Bashah (10:17):
Yeah.
Coaching is a great way topreface it.
Absolutely.
Like your role as aparent is not
to, go in and be the judge and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (10:25):
definitive
Dr.Bashah (10:26):
authority and, and, to punish like,
Tammy Afriat, CP (10:28):
okay, you time
Dr.Bashah (10:29):
out, you give this person
that it's like reallyequipping them.
with resolving theconflict together on
their own and helping
Tammy Afriat, (10:38):
see, okay, well,
Dr.Bashah (10:38):
what are the consequences if
Tammy Afri (10:40):
we change places and
Dr.Bashah (10:42):
I was them,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (10:43):
how would
Dr.Bashah (10:43):
I feel about the situation?
So there's
Tammy Afriat, C (10:45):
appreciation of theory of mind.
And,
Dr.Bashah (10:49):
you know, what is a fair outcome?
What does even fairness mean?
How do you assess fairness?
and sometimes you haveto give something to win
something.
What is a win win look likefor both parties rather
than a win lose situation foreither one?
and helping them develop theskills to negotiate that
together is Very powerful.
(11:11):
Very, very powerful.
Yeah.
I commend you on
Tammy Afriat, CPC (11:13):
that work.
It is,
Dr.Bashah (11:15):
it is, It can be exhausting.
It takes so much pauseand presence and patience.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (11:22):
Yeah, I you know, as a parent
coach, I'm familiarwith the drama triangle.
And I love to use it just asan effective way, to handle
kiddos, let them to advocate forthemselves, stand up themselves.
And actually home is a lab.
It's like they'reexperimenting all those kinds
of scenarios in the house.
So let them do that.
(11:43):
And so they can learnthose skills and can it
out of the house when theybe bullied outside.
, as you said, you are morepowerful when you can advocate
for yourself and solve the,the situation, which circle
back to being an agency, right?
Because when you choose, evenif you had bad experiences,
(12:05):
when you choose the goodover the evil, then you have
the power, like you get thatyou have the power to change
whatever you want, you know,to envision for yourself.
Does that make sense?
Dr.Bashah (12:19):
Absolutely.
.
Yes.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:20):
And, in this way you are, you're
Dr.Bashah (12:23):
raising leaders,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:24):
You know, you're raising
Dr.Bashah (12:25):
children to be free thinkers,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:28):
to have
Dr.Bashah (12:28):
a moral
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:29):
compass,
Dr.Bashah (12:30):
to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:31):
them with
Dr.Bashah (12:32):
ego strength.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:33):
teaching them that
Dr.Bashah (12:35):
they're not so fragile,
that they, they're strong.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:39):
You
Dr.Bashah (12:39):
believe
Tammy Afriat, CPC (12:39):
their, in their capability to
handle whatever coming.
In their way, I totallyunderstand that and , I want
to ask you We see extremismfar away, it's in the Middle
East, do you think that theAmerican citizen, specifically
also are immune to extremism?
Dr.Bashah (13:00):
Yeah, I mean, youth and Children are vulnerable
and impressionable population
Tammy Afriat, (13:06):
because of where
Dr.Bashah (13:07):
they're at developmentally.
And
Tammy Afriat, (13:09):
absolutely, they
Dr.Bashah (13:10):
are susceptible also to becoming extremist.
And it's
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:16):
just as
Dr.Bashah (13:17):
adults, you know, when you have a simple
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:20):
solution
Dr.Bashah (13:21):
or a simplified
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:24):
for a complex problem, it becomes easier to
Dr.Bashah (13:28):
wrap your head
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:29):
it
Dr.Bashah (13:29):
and then the solution becomes oversimplified.
Like just blame them.
You know,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:35):
this
Dr.Bashah (13:36):
is the good guy.
This
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:37):
the bad
Dr.Bashah (13:37):
guy.
This
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:38):
the enemy,
Dr.Bashah (13:39):
and, it's hard to really deconstruct that.
and the tendency is itstarts to reduce our fear and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:46):
because
Dr.Bashah (13:47):
we want to.
Experience a sense
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:49):
control in a
Dr.Bashah (13:50):
world that we feel is unpredictable,
especially when we have,you know, there, there
is like this anticipatory
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:58):
We
Dr.Bashah (13:58):
don't know what's going to
Tammy Afriat, CPC (13:59):
tomorrow.
Dr.Bashah (14:00):
Who's going to try to attack us again
tomorrow?
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:02):
Who's
Dr.Bashah (14:03):
attacking Western democracy tomorrow?
You know, what, what are wehere for?
Like, how long do we have
Tammy Afriat, CP (14:09):
preserve this?
, if we really
Dr.Bashah (14:11):
allowed ourselves to be confronted with
that dilemma
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:16):
and
Dr.Bashah (14:16):
that cognitive dissonance I was
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:18):
about
Dr.Bashah (14:18):
earlier, you have to do deeper
work, and there'sdeeper questions that are there.
And so I thinkit's fruitful to have
those conversations with.
Tammy Afriat, (14:27):
adolescents, and that
Dr.Bashah (14:29):
are age appropriate, developmentally appropriate
to help educate them and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (14:34):
them
Dr.Bashah (14:35):
with really understanding and doing that
deeper level questioningand grappling with it.
Tammy Afr (14:42):
So gravitating toward addicting ideologies.
Comes more to the adolescent,not as early as the toddler, but
there is work that we mentionedthat can be done to avoid, our
kiddos that might be trappedinto those kind of extremism.
behaviors, right?
(15:02):
Yes.
Dr.Bashah (15:03):
Yeah.
I think, you know, there'sthe radicalization and
extremism groups that, youknow, really prey upon the
awkwardness andinsecurities of adolescence.
But,
Tammy Afriat, (15:15):
you know, we saw
Dr.Bashah (15:15):
these experiments,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (15:17):
with
Dr.Bashah (15:18):
children where, a teacher was trying
to really understand andreplicate what happened
in Nazi Germany.
And she separated herclass between the blue eyes.
And the brown eyes.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (15:30):
And she
Dr.Bashah (15:31):
said, okay, if you have these colored eyes,
you are better and smarter andmore superior than
the group with theother colored eyes.
and and you see like within aday.
Yeah, they were
Tammy Afriat, (15:44):
aggressive to the
Dr.Bashah (15:45):
other groups.
Theystarted to gravitate towards
Tammy Afriat, (15:48):
with the same eye
Dr.Bashah (15:49):
color as them.
And this is
Tammy Afriat, CPC (15:51):
you
Dr.Bashah (15:51):
know, an artificial experiment.
You couldn't do that today,obviously, but this
teacher, like it, was amazing.
She documented it, shefilmed it and, and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:01):
was
Dr.Bashah (16:01):
able to.
Radicalize these
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:05):
children
Dr.Bashah (16:06):
based on the color of their eyes.
And so if
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:09):
think
Dr.Bashah (16:10):
about that, you know, the,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:12):
the inherent
Dr.Bashah (16:14):
of separateness that things that separate
us into groups and things thatre gravitate towards
in in a way that justifies
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:22):
dehumanizes
Dr.Bashah (16:23):
dehumanizes the other group
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:26):
makes us
Dr.Bashah (16:26):
us.
hateful, makes us angry, makesus
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:30):
to
Dr.Bashah (16:30):
defend ourselves against these other out groups.
This
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:33):
dangerous.
Dr.Bashah (16:34):
And toddlers are just as susceptible to this.
Again, it's a verysimple, it's not complex.
and I think we're allnot immune to it.
And it's.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:44):
It's all
Dr.Bashah (16:45):
possible.
There's so much propaganda
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:47):
and
Dr.Bashah (16:48):
distorted content on social media.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:52):
It's hard
Dr.Bashah (16:52):
to know, like, what
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:54):
trustworthy
Dr.Bashah (16:55):
news, what is fake news.
There'sso many conspiracy theories
Tammy Afriat, CPC (16:58):
that
Dr.Bashah (16:58):
are out there.
you know, so it's atime of paranoia and distrust.
And so I think, you know, wealso have
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:04):
be careful
Dr.Bashah (17:04):
as adults, what we expose ourselves to, and looking
at multiple media sources andsearching for credible news and
information that isn't so factdistorting or conspiracy driven.
the other thing, you know, Iwant to mention for kiddos,
especially, and also for adults,that there's this
amygdala hijack.
(17:27):
what what
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:28):
means
Dr.Bashah (17:29):
means is that people who
want to influence us,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:31):
if they
Dr.Bashah (17:32):
give us information
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:33):
makes
Dr.Bashah (17:33):
us feel terrorized or,
create an existential crisis,we stop
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:39):
our frontal lobe because
Dr.Bashah (17:41):
now our limbic
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:42):
is activated.
It's a primitive
Dr.Bashah (17:44):
part of our brain.
We go intothis fight, flight, freeze
response system, andwe can't necessarily
think rationally.
About
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:53):
happening or
Dr.Bashah (17:53):
think about, consequences, and we act more
impulsively because we don't
Tammy Afriat, CPC (17:58):
that
Dr.Bashah (17:59):
behavioral disinhibition or ability to
see rationallyor logically or way
scientific evidence.
And so,that is a tactic, that media
uses that radicalizers use.
so I think it's important just
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:13):
being aware of when that's
Dr.Bashah (18:16):
employed when we feel that way.
That we should probablyreally step away,
do some self care activities,really ground and root ourselves
and come back and reallythink very critically
about the issue ratherthan just responding,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:32):
out
Dr.Bashah (18:32):
of habit or reactivity or impulsively
because that's what we'rereally.
Giving up our power and controlover the situation so
we can also teachour kiddos that
adults have tantrums too.
I seen it.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:47):
it.
I don't,
Dr.Bashah (18:48):
politicians have temper tantrums.
Adults have
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:51):
tantrums.
Dr.Bashah (18:51):
Leaders have temper tantrums.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (18:53):
Oh, I liked what you said about the
amygdala hijack, because itcircles back again to being
a parent and teach yourchild how to consume content.
It's, I also callit the content diet.
So I love how you said.
you know what?
When you see something andit kind of makes you really
(19:13):
fear, and you know, you canactually it in your brain when
it activates you and then yourbrain is just in a circle.
I feel it like, like youhave to run away, run away.
You know, that's what I,when I see such things,
I'm like, it's impossible.
It's impossible.
That makes me, that's likethe sign for me to say no.
That's not something Iwant to engage anymore.
(19:34):
want to stop that and thenI need to take some time
to, regulate myself, maybe?
And I can continue and mayberesearch that topic and be
more educated about it, butwith a lot of conscious and
awareness of how do I get the...
Data, you know, the factsand asking Even before
(19:58):
I'm, Google searching.
I'm asking myself, whatare the things that I want
to get the answer for?
So I'm not going to beinto this rabbit hole.
of people fitting me withstuff that they want to
fit me with the propaganda.
So, I like your note aboutbe aware of the content.
Even as an adult that you'reconsuming and learn to control
(20:19):
that for yourself and alsoteach your child, coach
your child to do the same.
So thank you for this tip.
tip.
It's great.
I love it.
Yeah.
And speaking of social media,with everything that's going
on with Hamas in Israel,there are many of Horrible
videos, horrible pictures.
I think for an adultit's so hard to process.
(20:41):
I would love to hear your advicearound how do you talk about
those things with your children.
Also, how early do youstart talking about those
things and how do youpresent the topic at all?
Dr.Bashah (20:54):
Yeah, yeah, I was
Tammy Afriat, C (20:55):
to my family in
Dr.Bashah (20:57):
Israel.
and also my cousins and,It's challenging.
I think children do.
Pick up onwhat's happening, even
if they don't understandit, they might overhear
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:10):
some
Dr.Bashah (21:10):
conversations as parents are
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:13):
the
Dr.Bashah (21:13):
news, maybe hearing,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:15):
the
Dr.Bashah (21:16):
anger or
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:17):
Even, oh no! Mm
Dr.Bashah (21:21):
unsure what's happening Like.
Like, why why
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:25):
my mom
Dr.Bashah (21:25):
crying?
Why, why is my dadgetting angrier?
And he seems to be moreirritable and
temperamental these days.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:33):
they
Dr.Bashah (21:33):
may not be able to draw the
conclusions themselves.
And so I think
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:38):
the
Dr.Bashah (21:38):
biggest thing is, protecting
children, but you don't have
Tammy Afriat, (21:42):
entirely shelter
Dr.Bashah (21:43):
them.
I think, there's noright or wrong answer.
And I just want to say, youknow, every child is different
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:49):
and,
Dr.Bashah (21:50):
Different ages
Tammy Afriat, CP (21:51):
children, very
Dr.Bas (21:52):
developmentally, there's just so much variability
that's out there.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (21:55):
and so
Dr.Bashah (21:56):
for parents, you really should.
Trust your intuitionon this one.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:00):
and
Dr.Bashah (22:00):
not force anything onto your Children.
but really maybe create a spacea safe place for them to ask you
questions
Tammy Afr (22:09):
about what's going on
Dr.Bashah (22:10):
and just say, there are some things going on
in the world today.
Is there anything that you'veheard or maybe was mentioned
at school or maybe you heardShades of Noir You know,
mommy and I talkingabout what have you heard?
Is there anyconcerns that you have?
And so,just asking them so that they,
it's more like their own.
inquiry that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:31):
really
Dr.Bashah (22:31):
leading the information.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:33):
So
Dr.Bashah (22:33):
you're not just giving them lots
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:35):
information
Dr.Bashah (22:36):
that they then can't process.
The most important thingis that your children feel safe,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:41):
that school
Dr.Bashah (22:41):
is safe,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:43):
home
Dr.Bashah (22:43):
is safe.
And really creating that, that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:46):
of
Dr.Bashah (22:46):
safety and security for them,
emotionally and physically,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:50):
and
Dr.Bashah (22:50):
knowing that their parents are
going to be constant,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:53):
and they
Dr.Bashah (22:53):
can rely on that constancy,
from caregivers.
It could
Tammy Afriat, CPC (22:57):
any,
Dr.Bashah (22:57):
any of their caregivers.
And so I think that
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:01):
is
Dr.Bashah (23:01):
so important,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:03):
to keep them
Dr.Bashah (23:04):
mentally and emotionally
healthy, you know, so.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:08):
Some
Dr.Bashah (23:08):
of my cousins who've, you know, I've asked
Tammy Afria (23:11):
about this approach
Dr.Bashah (23:12):
and because they're not, so
removed from thesituation and we have
family in Israel, sothey, may show certain things.
Like one of my cousins decided
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:22):
going
Dr.Bashah (23:22):
to show the Biden speech about Israel.
So Biden, you
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:25):
will
Dr.Bashah (23:25):
mention words like war and.
Identifying Hamas as a terroristorganization that we will fight
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:31):
protect
Dr.Bashah (23:32):
Israel.
We will defend Israelagainst their enemies.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (23:35):
so
Dr.Bashah (23:35):
not condoning anything about these
attacks with referenceto attacks.
So there's things that arein his speech, but it's also.
Supportive.
It's also, comforting to hearlike, okay,
America is an ally to Israel.
They're not going to, allowthem, to be harmed.
They're going tosupport them as an
ally, and that will help to givethem.
(23:57):
confidence andhope and optimism.
and so,you know, it might be something
like that, that you watchwith them and then be there
to see their reaction.
Let them
Tammy Afriat, CP (24:06):
you questions.
Dr.Bashah (24:07):
you know, again, developmentally appropriate.
Mycousin decided to do this with
her son,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:12):
12 years
Dr.Bashah (24:13):
old and, has already
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:15):
You
Dr.Bashah (24:15):
know, has understanding
of, things that arehappening so I think that's
important.
We, you know, wecertainly don't want
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:21):
raise
Dr.Bashah (24:21):
the children in,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:22):
an
Dr.Bashah (24:22):
over sheltered bubble so that they
can learn from theseexperiences, but the most
important that they feel
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:27):
feel
Dr.Bashah (24:28):
safe, they know
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:29):
family is
Dr.Bashah (24:29):
safe,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:30):
basically to say, you are safe, you're safe,
in school, although something,is happening in the world.
and.
Not to bombard them withfacts only if they're asking
And last thing is , tosummer it up with some kind
of an optimistic statement.
Dr.Bashah (24:48):
Yeah, Yeah, you know, I was, seeking community
Tammy Afriat, CPC (24:52):
my
Dr.Bashah (24:53):
own grief and, uh, we, there were gatherings
and, candlelighting for Shabbatand, it was very powerful
for me to feel that strength.
Tammy Afriat, (25:02):
in community, but
Dr.Bashah (25:03):
also be able
Tammy Afria (25:04):
grieve collectively
Dr.Bashah (25:05):
with community,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:06):
and
Dr.Bashah (25:06):
I think that's a wonderful
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:07):
for
Dr.Bashah (25:08):
Children, to attend and to participate in
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:12):
be a part
Dr.Bashah (25:12):
of, And I think, you know.
There's a holocaust survivor whosaid we will never
show them defeator fear because we
are not afraid, we are strong,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:22):
and we
Dr.Bashah (25:22):
will always, overcome.
Tammy Afriat, (25:24):
And it's just so
Dr.Bashah (25:25):
powerful to hear, survivors.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:28):
Speak from
Dr.Bashah (25:29):
that place of strength.
And I think we must honor them.
And there's, beautiful,powerful Jewish saying
had the opportunity to hear manysurvivors speak
over the weekend.
People
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:39):
were
Dr.Bashah (25:40):
in Israel
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:41):
who had
Dr.Bashah (25:41):
witnessed, the, the attacks or, had
witnessed stories retoldof the attacks from
survivors perspectives and.
one commontheme that really came out was,
there were so many heroes.
And
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:57):
they
Dr.Bashah (25:58):
asked the heroes, like,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (25:59):
did you
Dr.Bashah (25:59):
go into those pillaging
fires and saving peopleand risking your life to go
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:06):
save
Dr.Bashah (26:06):
another?
and they said, well, if not me,then who?
And I think that'sjust such a powerful,
statement and it'sembedded in the identity
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:15):
of the
Dr.Bashah (26:16):
Jewish people.
Like,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:17):
if I'm
Dr.Bashah (26:18):
not going to save
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:18):
who's going
Dr.Bashah (26:19):
to save me, you know, if not me, then
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:22):
who's going
Dr.Bashah (26:22):
to be there for us.
And, there is the sense of,family and solidarity and unity
and, and collectiveness andthat we come together, despite,
you
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:33):
well, because
Dr.Bashah (26:34):
of our collective trauma.
that we are unitedas a result of it and stronger
as a result of it.
And I, think.
You know, even if you'renot Jewish, like these, like
learning from that, comingtogether
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:47):
rather
Dr.Bashah (26:48):
than grieving alone, seeking and building
and fostering a
Tammy Afriat, CPC (26:52):
of
Dr.Bashah (26:52):
identity and cohesion and community,
that helps you to bestronger in a pro social way,
that,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:00):
that is so
Dr.Bashah (27:01):
incredibly important.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:02):
it's again, choosing the good
and choosing to move on in apositive way and not choosing
to take that resentmentor hateness into more violence.
Mm-hmm.
.So I think that'sthe real heroes are.
yeah.
(27:23):
Do you have anything elseyou would like to share with
us or, tips you want to givethe parents as they raise
their children and cope with.
with Nowadays, challengeswith these horrific,
Tragedies that's going on.
Yeah,
Dr.Bashah (27:38):
I think, you know, really maintaining
the hope and Tammy, justas you and I are doing
and even our owngrief and suffering,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:47):
we're finding
Dr.Bashah (27:48):
meaning and doing these podcasts.
We're findingmeaning and educating.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (27:53):
the
Dr.Bashah (27:53):
public.
We're finding meaning in beingactive, not passive.
And, I really encourage othersto do the same and finding
what resonates with themand what they feel is going
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:05):
be
Dr.Bashah (28:05):
meaningful and purposeful for them so
that they don't feelso helpless.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:10):
think
Dr.Bashah (28:10):
a common thing that I'm hearing across people is.
Um, just not knowing whatto do, feeling so helpless.
And so Ithink going more into that
active mobilizingrole is going to help people,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:23):
process,
Dr.Bashah (28:24):
through their grief and grow stronger.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:27):
as
Dr.Bashah (28:27):
a result of what has happened, I do want to say we
do have a podcast.
It's the OptimisticAmerican, and if
you go there, we do
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:37):
a
Dr.Bashah (28:37):
lot of different tips and strategies
that we've pulled out of thebook Addictive Ideologies
and made separate podcastson them, so there are
a lot of tools that we like toequip people with, using
psychological, principles,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:52):
And
Dr.Bashah (28:53):
there's
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:54):
that
Dr.Bashah (28:54):
we created as well for , parents,
raising children.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (28:59):
you know
Dr.Bashah (28:59):
of somebody or loved one that's fallen,
trapped to theseaddictive ideologies,
Tammy Afriat, CPC (29:04):
you can
Dr.Bashah (29:04):
do to help them.
So there's a lot of, thingsand resources there that
we like to give away.
Tammy Afriat, (29:10):
benefit people's
Dr.Bashah (29:11):
lives, and
Tammy Afriat, CPC (29:12):
we're happy
Dr.Bashah (29:13):
to help.
So please reach out if
Tammy Afriat, (29:15):
anything further
Dr.Bashah (29:16):
that we can do.
Tammy Afria (29:17):
This This is great.
And I appreciate a lot the bookthat you wrote it's so powerful
and really gives, I think,it's point that each person has
the choice and you help peoplemake let's say, the.
positive over their life.
So thank you so much for takingthe time being with me today,
(29:40):
sharing your own familyexperiences and from your
psychological background, andso I was really honored to
have you with me, thank you somuch.
Oh, the pleasure
Dr.Bashah (29:52):
and honor is all mine, Tammy.
Thank you Thank you so
Tammy Afriat, CPC (29:55):
much.
Last thing forour listeners, all
the links to yourpodcast and website.
it will be on the show notes.
so go ahead and look into that.
Dr.Bashah (30:05):
Great.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Our book can bebought on Amazon.
It's online.
Paul and I also dictate it.
And, uh, you'll also hear mymother's voice on there as well.
If you wantto hear the audio book.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (30:17):
Oh, that's amazing.
I didn't know thatI've read the book.
I didn't, I didn'tlook for the audio.
So I'm going to think if I wantto do a read here right now.
Thank you so much, Tammy.
Dr.Bashah (30:31):
You're amazing.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (30:32):
appreciate
Dr.Bashah (30:33):
you and all the work You're doing.
Tammy Afriat, CPC (30:35):
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
Thank you.
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