King of Ashes

Y'all, buckle up and hold onto your hats because this week, we're getting our hands dirty in the complicated world of S.A. Cosby's King of Ashes! We're talking about crime, drugs, mayhem, and a murder mystery that twists tighter than a backroad in the South.

Join your hosts as we realize how murky that hero/villian line is and get into some literary analysis that makes us feel like Mr. Cosby just might be a genius!

So, pour yourself a sweet tea (or something stronger), and get ready for a spoiler-filled deep dive into the book that proves that EVERYTHING BURNS. 

Shoot us a text, if you have any recs or comments!

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Hey, hey, hey, book lovers.
Welcome to Plot on the Rock, thepodcast where representation is
crucial and it's always for theplot.

SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
We're your hosts, Alicia, Rikia, and Tia, three
friends dedicated to honoringthe brilliance and the power of
black and PLT authors.

SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
We got some hot take, some spoilers, don't
worry, we'll always warn you,and deep convos on culture,
identity, and everything inbetween.

SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
Each week we dive deep into a new book, share our
unfiltered thoughts, andcelebrate the writers who are
reshaping the literary world onestory at a time.

SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
And fair warning, if you're here for a calm, quiet
book club, this might not bewhat you're looking for.

SPEAKER_03 (00:41):
Grab your favorite drink, curl up with us, and
let's talk books.
The ones that move us, exciteus, and keep us flipping pages
way past our bedtime.

SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
So lower your expectations and let's get into
the plot.

(01:10):
He is a that is what I said.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13):
He's a Crosby.
He's a Crosby.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
You see, I'm country.
Keep that in there.
It's fine.
It's fine, guys.
It's essay.
See, I almost did it again.
It's the country.
It's cut it's the country.
S.A.
Cosby.
From Virginia.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
It's very valid.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
I had it.
I have to swing one way or theother.

SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
Cosby.

SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
If I don't do it specifically.
But yeah.
This was a really good book.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48):
It was good.
I enjoyed it.
My first one by him.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:51):
It was.
I need to get like literally,this is the first time in a very
long time that I've like, I needto get someone's whole
bibliography.
Everything that he has written.
I need it.
It's so good.
And I was when I was onGoodreads, or Reddit, one of the
two, I don't remember.

(02:11):
Someone was like, Oh, did youcatch the nod?
So I think it was his otherbook, All Sinners Bleed, or
something like that.
So I guess there's like a littlelittle Easter eggs from one of
his other books in there too.

SPEAKER_00 (02:25):
I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
So someone named Ike.
I don't know who that was, butthey said referencing someone
named Ike that was in this.
So I need to look at his otherstuff.

SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Yeah, for sure.
Because it was so good.
Um okay, so let's let's just getinto the questions.
Well, first, actually, let melet me just preface this by
saying we do do spoilers here.
So if you haven't read the book,read the book.
Like, you want to go into thisblind.

(02:57):
I promise you.
You want to go into this notknowing what is going on because
it is a ride.
Yes.
Yes.
It is a ride.
So there will be spoilers fromhere on out, but we're just
gonna chat about it.
Um what is everyone drinkingthough?

unknown (03:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
I'm not drinking, I'm having lemonade.

SPEAKER_03 (03:20):
A little lemon taste.
Lemonade.
Yeah, I figured since we werethis book is based kind of in
the country, I got somemoonshine.
It's butter pecan flavored witha little cinnamon just because I
was being extra today.

SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
No, that sounds so good.
That sounds so good.
I have a hard seltzer, it'spineapple flavor, and I got that
for no other reason than I lovepineapples.
It is good.
It ain't it ain't it ain't quiteas pineapple-y as I have wanted
it to be, but you know, nexttime I know to actually get some

(03:54):
pineapple juice to add to it,yeah.
That'll be good, you know.
Yeah.
Oh, I feel left out.
It's okay, friend.
I was sober last show.

SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
That's true.
Yeah, Jeremy had the tea.
Well, I shouldn't have thetequila because last time I had
the tequila, I was kind ofthat's when I like fell every
everything fell off my desk.
So it's probably back to thehouse.

SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
Oh well.
That's okay.
And so to all of our listeners,we we do generally drink pretty
much every time we're recording.
Feel free to drink with us.
Join us, sober living is fine aswell, and we support it.

SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Yes, and just to add, on our TikTok page, we
always do a drink menu for eachbook that we have.
So make a drink from the menu.
We also have a non-alcoholic umdrink as well on there, too.
So you guys can try.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
So this book was a ride, and that ride was set off
by none none other than uh Dantewho we wanted to kill every
moment of the book.
So I guess the first thing isdid y'all have any sympathy for

(05:16):
Dante at any point during this?

SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
I don't want to say I don't want to say I had
sympathy for him, I had empathyfor him.
Because you know, when I wasreading this every step of the
way, I was like, if I was Roman,I would kill him right now.
Because he's too he's too muchof a wild card, like I don't
know what he's gonna do.
Like, I'm sorry, yes, that's ourbrother, but like you gotta go.
But I felt empathy for himspecifically in the like earlier

(05:48):
in the book when Roman sayssomething where they killed a
snake or something like that,and he said Dante got like he
was always a very emotional kid,and he just felt a lot, so he
cried over the snake and allthis other stuff.
So you can see he was such asensitive soul, and I feel like
usually it's the sensitive soulsthat are more tortured than
anyone else.

(06:10):
So, in that aspect, I feltempathy for him.
He still pissed me off.
He needs rehab.
I would have put him in rehab.
Honestly, that's what I wouldhave done because he didn't do
anything the whole book.
Really was Roman making themoney.
So I would you go to rehab, getclean, no phones, no nothing,
stay there until I'm done.

(06:30):
Literally lock it up.

SPEAKER_03 (06:32):
Yeah.
I think for me, mine is kind ofthe opposite.
I didn't feel real empathy forhim till it was more sort of
towards the end of the book,once I realized exactly what he
was carrying, and I felt like hekind of started like the domino
effect of like the bad thingsthat essentially happened in

(06:54):
their life.
Like, if he wouldn't have toldRoman what he saw, then they
wouldn't have confronted themom, and then what happened to
the mom essentially wouldn'thave happened in his mind, and
then I was like, okay, now thatI see what you're actually
carrying, I kind of do see wheresome of that.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:15):
Yeah, I agree.
And like I I did have a littlebit more empathy for him
throughout the book.
Um, and that's probably justbecause of my experiences with
addicts.
Um I have them in my family, andso I know that usually an
addiction like that, that's justso uncontrollable, you don't

(07:37):
know what to do, does stem fromsome kind of trauma.
So even before the the bigreveal at the end, I I kind of
figured it was something likethat.
And so I wasn't like I wasannoyed with him mostly because
of like the terrible freakingdecisions he was making.
But that comes with addiction,you know?

(07:57):
Yeah.
And it was just like, come on,like, bro.
Like he I would have beat hisass if I was Roman.
That's pretty much where I wasat, and he would have deserved
it, whether I feel bad for youor not.
I gotta beat you up.
Like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 (08:12):
He definitely would have caught the hands because it
was just like over and over andover and over again.
Like at some point you have torealize that what you're doing
is not okay.

SPEAKER_00 (08:21):
Yeah.
Like, where's your rock bottom?
Sorry, like everybody shouldlike I know everybody's rock
bottom is gonna be different, Iguess.
But like, damn, how low yougotta go.

SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
Obviously, because like honestly, with the first of
all, that part what happenedwith the mom when she died.
I screamed.
Yeah, I was like I screamedbecause I was not expecting it
at all.
Yeah, and like you said, Ricky,like you now you understand,
like what is it?
He was doing all this stuff todrown everything out, but like,

(08:55):
like you said, like where isrock bottom for you?
Because he he's hit it a coupletimes from what they describe,
but it's like how how can yougo?
How though can you becausesorry?
This is not a song, it is notthe move of the song.

SPEAKER_00 (09:13):
You get what I feel.
I feel you.
Oh, so how do we feel aboutRoman?
Because Roman, he pretty muchcame in and took charge of the
situation immediately.
Yeah.
So, like, do you see him as, Iguess, in light of how the book
ends up, do you see him as ananti-hero, a villain, a bro,

(09:39):
like a hero?
Like, what do you see him as?

SPEAKER_03 (09:48):
Let me see, what what was my thought process for
that?
I feel like towards thebeginning of the book, I saw him
as like the hero.
He really was like the bigbrother to me.
Kind of coming in, swooping upeverybody, doing all the stuff
he's supposed to be doing.
But then towards the end, like,who did he say?

(10:11):
Dante ended up going away fromhere to glory, the daddy went to
glory.
I feel like Nevea, I feel likeshe kind of chose herself, but
you choosing yourself with it'skind of like she's not whole.
She has everything thatessentially happened with their
home, and then again, you guys,yeah, make sure you read the

(10:33):
book.
She did end up killing her dad,so she has to deal with that.
So, like you're going away, butare you really leaving for
peace?
So, what did what did you reallydo?

SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Yeah.
I think that's what made the Ifeel like that's what made this
book so like like impactful,like couldn't stop thinking
about it the whole time becauseit's like, oh my god, this he
went through all of this and forwhat?

(11:06):
Not only for what, but just toend up in a situation where you
worse almost almost than anybodyelse.
Like, all because you couldn'tcommunicate with your sister,
really, is what it was.

unknown (11:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (11:24):
What's stuck in in trauma patterns?

SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
What's that one?
I had to look it up real quick.
With that, now that I have thisidea, it reminds me of that line
from what's the one that has twofaces in it in the dark knight.
Is that dark knight right?
Whichever one has a joker in itbecause I think the joke of
Sheet Letters joke.
Yeah, that one.
Where he says, You either die ahero or you live long enough to
see yourself become the villain.

(11:50):
And to me that's basically whathappened because now now he's
torn and tranquil.
Because now you're in charge ofthis of this cruelty, basically.
Oh boy, this boy's okay.
He is I don't think I don'tthink he's a villain.
I do think he's an anti-hero.
I don't think he's a villain.
I think he could become one.
He could eventually, becausethere's no way you can live that

(12:12):
type of life and still have somemorality.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:19):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
Which is interesting because Torrent and Tranquel,
which one Torrent was the notreally, really crazy one.
Tranquil was like the crazy,crazy one.
Right.
Torrent had his morality when itcame to his pets to his dogs.
That's the only time you everseen him be sweet to anything.

SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
So you have that.
But like, and then of course,like towards the end of the book
where not towards the end of theend of the book, where what's
her face?
Jealousy, girl, you're knockedup.
You're knocked up and nowtalking about I don't want to
lose this life.
I don't now look at now you'restuck.
Look, look at look.
Well, let's let's talk aboutthat.
At least he's rich at that.

SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
That part because I mean, yeah.
Let's talk about that because Iwant to talk about jealousy.
I want to talk about jealousy.
I feel like she is the biggestvictim in this damn book.
Yeah.
She had a deal with herbrothers.
She asked this man straight outseveral times, are you involved

(13:20):
with what they're doing?
He said, No.
He fell in love with her, shefell in love with him, just for
him to now be in the place wherethey were.
Right.
And she's, I mean, she'sessentially, in her mind anyway,
it seemed like, stuck at thispoint.

(13:41):
Like you just walked and saw theman you love who said, I'm not
involved in all that shit.
I'm above boy.

SPEAKER_03 (13:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Um carrying his baby.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
Like that, I my my heart brokefor her.
Because what's she gonna do now?
Really?

SPEAKER_03 (14:03):
I definitely agree with that.
She essentially, I feel like shegot the a smarter version of her
brothers.
And it's like a catch 42 becauseas a woman, like my man, he's
not gonna hurt me, but I knowthat he can hurt you.
And it's like it's gonnacontinue to happen.
And then let's just say Lil BootBoot is a boy.

(14:24):
It's gonna be the same cycle.

SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Oh, I didn't even think about that part.

SPEAKER_03 (14:30):
It'll be the same cycle.

SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
I didn't even think about that.
And I can't even like honestly,like it's fair that you say that
where it's like it's repeatingthe cycle, you're falling for
the same people that you don'twant to be with, but you know
who I love?
Khalil.
He's killing people too, and I'mlike, oh my god.

(14:52):
Roman's doing the same thing,but I'm also like, oh no.
No, let me go for the murderer.

SPEAKER_00 (14:56):
Like he was a criminal mastermind.
And like, let's be real, I feellike the fact that Roman knew
him prior to this should havebeen the red flag for us.
Honestly, yeah.
Yeah.
Now like, what do you mean youhave this man who will come out

(15:17):
the woodworks and shoot niggasdead for you?

SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
Right.
You you have a killer on speeddialer on speed dial number one.

SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Got shooters.
And ask no questions, be like,okay, like and that's what I
liked.
I was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 (15:34):
And speaking of killing too, what was the girl's
name that uh she left and shewasn't supposed to come back and
came back anyway?

SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
And then Cassie, Cassie pissed me off.
Lord, bro.
She deserved it.
I'm sorry.
Sorry, she deserved it.

SPEAKER_03 (15:49):
No, but for real.
Because why did you come back?
Why did you come back?
Like, all you had to do was waittwo more weeks.
Hell, two more days, and youwould have been fine to be
coming back scot-free.
Like, now ashes to ashes, dustto dust.
Like, what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
She made me so mad.
Like, she stressed me outbecause one, we know that what's
his face, Dante was going to goCassie, and how she's annoying.
But yeah, for me, she deservedto die.
Now I know this isn't a schedulequestion a scheduled question
that we have.
Do you think what do you thinkof what Don the only reason why

(16:32):
Dante is dead?
My issue, this is not aquestion, this whole entire
book, and what we have.
Nobody's communicating.
No, nobody is communicating atall.
And this whole entire story.
Nobody from the beginning, likefrom their mom, of course, like
as a parent, like, hey, I'mcheating on your dad.
Like, yeah, there's a differencethere.
But like, I think thenon-communication started when

(16:54):
the mom died, and that's wherethe secrets kind of like just
had a domino effect.
What do you think?
How do you think Dante, knowingwhat we know about Dante, like,
what do you think he would havehow he would have reacted if
Roman just told him whathappened to Cassie?
Because to me, the whole reasonwhy Dante, I think it's Roman's
fault, the whole reason whyDante is dead, because the only
reason why he's dead is becausehe went to this other the other

(17:16):
crew thinking that they're theones that killed her.
So do you think like Danteshould have just told him what
happened?
Because he knew, he said everystep of the way, like this is
what's gonna happen if she comesback.
So how do you think Dante wouldhave reacted?

SPEAKER_03 (17:31):
I felt like if he would have told her, told him
that he actually killed her, hewould have tried to either harm
himself or he would have reallytried to harm Roman.
And either way, excuse me, hewould be it would be the same
result.
He would no longer be here.
But I feel like he startedlosing trust in Dante after a

(17:53):
while.
Because before, like you said,he was telling him, okay, we're
doing this, we doing this, wedoing this.
This last little scheme, which Ifeel like was perfect.
Because I ain't gonna lie, whenthe cop came out and was kind of
like a gotcha, I was like, dang,it'll got my boy.
I know.

SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
No.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (18:09):
So that was good.
So I feel like he couldn't tellhim that.
Cause like you said, he's a wildcar, he just be doing stuff.
He would have came in there andmessed everything up.

SPEAKER_00 (18:18):
Right.
And I think like, like, I wonderwell, I'm not gonna say I think.
I wonder I wonder if Romanthought about this beforehand.
Because Roman knows his brother.
Now, um, I wonder if Romanactually knew like what could

(18:47):
have possibly happened.
Because you gotta think Roman isUber smart.
He is so smart.
Not only that, he thinks fivesteps ahead.
Yeah what if he wanted Dante outthe way?
I don't think we can put it pasthim.

SPEAKER_03 (19:04):
Now, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 (19:06):
I think we can put it past him because if his whole
plan at the end was to be likethe head of this whole thing, he
can't have no loose ends.

SPEAKER_03 (19:19):
Now, if I'm gonna be running a criminal enterprise, I
wouldn't want Dante as my righthand man.

SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
No.
Knowing something about you whenyou sell drugs?
Oh nah.

SPEAKER_03 (19:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
Oh my god.
I didn't even think about that.

SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
It made me wonder because it's like we we already
knew, like, it's not like, Imean, and speaking in context of
the book, not you know, that Ithink sh anybody should die, but
we knew she had to die, right?
She had to, yeah, Cassie.
She had to die because shedidn't listen.
She's riding around town in theman's same car.

(19:58):
I don't know why she would dothat, but she could have caught
an Uber, bro.
Literally, like, rent a car?
Didn't she get so much money?
Like, he gave her so much money,like you could have bought a car
at this point.
Like, it just makes no sense.
Like, he got her papers andeverything.
I just I will never understand.
But anyway, she had to die.

(20:18):
But I yeah, yeah, no, yeah.
That's it.
That's all that's all, yeah.
Yeah, I just like if literally,y'all, like, I'm I'm trusting at
this point, if you've listenedthis far, that you have read the
book because spoilers and stuff,but like if you haven't and

(20:39):
you're just listening and didn'tintend on actually reading it,
please read it.
Because I'm telling you, thisbook has me like in my feelings
still, and I really like Ifinished it a week ago.
Like, what do you what do youthink about the level of guilt
that everybody felt?

(20:59):
Because obviously their mom'sdeath was the beginning of all
the trauma and the beginning ofall of the you know trouble with
them.
So, who do you think of all ofthe siblings had the most guilt
about it?
Like, as far as feeling it,because I think about that.

SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
I don't think Navea had guilt initially because she
didn't know about she had a lotof I think she had anger because
in her mind she had to step upas like now the the mother
figure or whatever.
So I don't think she had guiltuntil the end when she killed
her daddy because that's why sheleft.
Right.
I d I think honestly, I think itwas Dante.

(21:39):
I think Roman felt Roman feltguilty and he he hid his guilt
in his you know dominatrixsexual thing.
Honestly, Sigmund Freud wouldhave a field day with that man
with what he was into.
I'm telling you.
The edible complex is real, sohe did that, but I think I think
it was Dante out of all of them,honestly.

SPEAKER_03 (22:01):
Yeah, I agree with that too.

SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
I agree.

SPEAKER_03 (22:04):
I feel like his was because fixed itself like
everybody else was kind ofskating by, like with Roman,
like he was doing really well.
And then the vehicle, of course,she was struggling, but she was
still she was treading water.
I felt like he was drowning.

SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And I hate that for him becauseI feel like it's all Roman's
fault.
It's all Roman's fault.
Like, at what point, like, and Iknow I know he would tell Dante,
you know, it's not your fault,it's not your fault.
But like, it's almost likePaco's having a field day back

(22:45):
there.
You hate me.

unknown (22:46):
You keep that.

SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
I don't he's literally walking past just
like, hey.
Because there's nothing overhere for him.
But anyways, like, um, yeah,like it's almost like Roman,
it's almost like it was safe forRoman for Dante to be on drugs.
You get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
Because, first of all, who goes from the
beginning, from the verybeginning, I'm like side-eyeing
everything because why are yougoing to the bar with your
brother who you know is anaddict?
You gonna go drink with him?
What?
Yeah, it's not making sense.

(23:34):
And he never, I mean, there's apoints in the book where he
literally hands him a bottle.

SPEAKER_03 (23:40):
Yeah, from the cabinet and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (23:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
I wonder if it's that mentality of like you're
gonna drink, you might as welljust do it with me.
You know what I mean?
Versus like you being out withsomebody else.

SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
I wonder if that was his mentality behind it.
I definitely think that's a partof it because he was so scared
of him saying something, and hekept saying that, and I it's
almost like it was like, Yeah,numb your go continue to numb
yourself out.
But I think that started beforeall of this.
I think that started with themom.
Yeah.

(24:14):
You get what I'm saying?
Because he don't want him totell nobody, he can't.

SPEAKER_03 (24:19):
Because everything would crumble.

SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Which I don't even know, I don't understand the
daddy being like, don't sayanything.
Because I this is just because Iwatched true crime, okay.
I'm not crazy.
I feel like they could have theycould have painted that a
completely different way withthe police.
They did not have to cremate herbody.
They could be like, My sons cameat this particular time, and

(24:43):
then honestly, and this is thisis how we found her.
We found her here with her headcracked open, and then police
are doing the investigation,they find out she's having an
affair, and he that man wasthere.
Dante already knew that man wasthere.
All he had to do was stay home,be like, Oh, I saw my mom with
this man, and now she's dead.
Bam, that man's in jail.
Do I want to in this man to goto jail?

(25:04):
No, but I mean, are they stilllying?
Yes, but it's different.

SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
They they could have gone like about it so many other
ways than the way they did.

SPEAKER_03 (25:16):
But I just had this thought, excuse me, and now I'm
thinking I thought the dad wasjust like mean and selfish the
whole time.
But now I'm thinking, like, as aparent, would he have rather the
whole town thought that hekilled his wife and have his
name sullied opposed to hisson's.

SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
That's a good point.
I just thought about it.
And you know what?
I never thought about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't think about thateither.
Cause also what he's can, Imean, he's carrying the same
thing they are.
And it seems like all of themhave a pattern of hiding from
the trauma versus dealing withit.
So he hid in his silence, in hisaloofness towards them, etc.

(26:04):
Because, well, damn, my childrenjust killed the love of my life.

SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
And then finding out during the investigation, my
wife is cheating on me.

unknown (26:13):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Like, that's a lot.
They all needed therapy.
Everybody in that book neededtherapy.

SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
Every step goes sit down and talk to the everybody,
please literally find her quick.
Because poor Navea, like Naveaneeded therapy very much, okay.
But it's like why why are youstill like even the part where

(26:42):
Roman was trying to get her toleave for a vacation, right?
And she's like fighting, like,should I go?
Girl, your dad is laid up in thehospital.
You don't know what's going onwith your brothers, get out of
there.
Like, of everybody, I'm like, Ihate that she ended up out of
this anger that she had and thissureness that her dad killed her

(27:05):
mom.
I hate that she ended his life.
Yeah.
But at the same time, I am sohappy for her that she got out
of town.
I hate that it took that, butI'm so glad that she got away
from all of that because Roman,it seems his his his MO is to

(27:25):
let people drown so he canfloat.
Damn, so is he a villain?
Maybe banning in this light.
Like the more we're talkingabout it, it he's feeling more
and more villainy.

SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
Yeah, because even there are moments in the when
she's like when she's showinghim the the the files that she
has or whatever, and all hekeeps saying is like he didn't
do it, he didn't do it, and he'slike, Okay, like you're you're
so sure that you keep telling methat he didn't do it.
How do you know?
Right, let me know, but you'renot telling her at all.
So you're still letting herthink that he did this, and

(28:02):
like, yeah, I hate that shekilled her dad, but like to me,
that's Roman's fault too,because nobody is opening their
mouths to say anything.
It's everything's one bigmiscommunication.

SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
Yeah, like we talk to each other, and I and I it's
like I hate to even call it amiscommunication because it's
he's just a straight up liar.
He did nothing but lie theentire book and force his
brother to lie with him.
And his dad, like, damn, like atthis point, this man finna die.

(28:36):
You're not about to let this mandie with dignity, at least to
his daughter.
I mean, you ain't gotta tell theworld if you don't want to, but
like, dang, at least tell yoursister so she can have some
peace.
Lying to jealousy, poorjealousy, Lord have mercy.
Justice for jealousy.

SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
None of I really not like literally for jealousy.
No, but she she was honestlyoutside of Khalil, she was like
the only character I reallyactually liked.

unknown (29:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
That was it.
The dirty talk got me though,and she said, Did didn't she at
one point have like to spit inhis mouth or something like
that?
Oh yeah, they was nastytogether.

SPEAKER_02 (29:20):
They was nasty together.

SPEAKER_01 (29:24):
I mean, even at the end of the book where it's like
where they're talking about therelationship, what was it that
almost made me like throw up inmy mouth?
Because I don't like already.
If you're listening to this, Idon't want to yuck your yum, but
you know, I'm gonna do it.
The scene where he goes in thebedroom in the dark, she's mama,

(29:46):
and he's her dirty boy.

unknown (29:50):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (29:51):
That's what you like, girl.

SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Run, he killed his last mama.

SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
Run.
That's the type of role playingyou like.
Oh gosh.
Good for you, but oh my god.
God's wild ripping.

SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Like it's crazy.
Like, but also let's think aboutthis though, because you telling
me he basically said he ain'tnever been in love before he met
jealousy.
And she he met her, and oh, Ican tell her that I love to be
whipped and shit.

(30:39):
I can tell her.
I can open up myself to her thatI love to call somebody mommy
when I'm I can I can do that.
And now we're in love.

SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
I had to look up what a cat of nine tails was
because I didn't know what itwas.
And I kept repeating.
I was like, what is it?
And I was scared.
I was scared to because listen,y'all, the last time, the last
time I had to Google somethingthat was like sexual, this is
like pre pre-podcast days, andwe were like first trying to try

(31:10):
out.
This is what I'm gonna referencea book again, Butcher and
Blackbird.
When they talked about herpiercings and they kept talking
about her piercings, I was like,what is this?
Like, what's a four for set,whatever it is?
And I was like, I don't want toGoogle this, but I I I want to
know what she was talking aboutbecause I feel what was it?
It's a lot of piercings downthere, and that's a little bit.

(31:32):
Yeah, yeah.
I didn't look at the actualpicture, I looked at like a
drawing, like a drawing picture,like but like when I had a look,
I was so scared to look up a catof ninetales.
I was like, oh no.
But like, yeah, that was thelast time I ever Googled, and I
was like so scared.

(31:52):
But hey, if that's again, hey,they're all dealing with their
mommy trauma in some way.
He has enough money to go to atherapist.
That's what pisses me off.

SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
He does he do not want to be healed.
He loves his trauma, he heloves, he loves it, he revels in
it.
It's what makes him ruthless, Ipromise you.
Because you tell like, and alsolet's also think about the fact
that he was so pissed off thathe put hands on his mama.

(32:27):
That part it started.
So you telling me that's thefirst time we done seen they've
seen uh violent side of him?
I don't know.
Roman might have been crazy thethe entire time and just hit it
well, because you let's just bereal about super rich people.
Most of the time it is becausethey're crazy as hell.

SPEAKER_03 (32:47):
Yes, he's got enough money to cover it up.
That's true.

SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
And he did it for his clients.
They meant he meant to multipletimes that he was doing it, he
would do it for his clients.
And make sure disappear.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
And people, right?
Because he again, because heknew Khalif before all of this.

SPEAKER_03 (33:06):
And I have a question too for y'all.
Do y'all think that he hadsomething to do with those drugs
that Dante had?
Because it was a part in thebook where he first called
Khalil or however you say hisname, and he was like, We have a
problem down here withsomething.
And I was like, is that tryingto allude that he was the one
supplying the drugs?

(33:27):
Do y'all remember that?

SPEAKER_01 (33:30):
No, I think it was one of those things where it was
like he had to speak in likecode, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
And I think like I think Khalil knew what the
problem was because it's like,okay, so now I gotta I can't
explain everything to you overthe phone, so you need to come
down here.
Cause I feel like a conversationlike that is not one you have
over the phone.
Cause I feel like how he alludedto his his not employees, his
clients that he had.
Some of them are probably intosome weird stuff, so maybe his

(33:57):
phone was bugged.
And he couldn't talk aboutcertain things.
So he was like, Okay, I need youto come down here.

SPEAKER_03 (34:02):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
And help me with this.

SPEAKER_03 (34:07):
But okay, that makes sense.
That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 (34:11):
Poor Grady.

SPEAKER_03 (34:12):
Well, no, no, poor Grady, because didn't he rip off
the rip him off?
Yeah, he ripped him off.
Oh, yeah, that's true, that'strue.
I forgot about that.
He did snitch you.

SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
He stole from Dante, Lord.
Why we can't have a black,affluent family with no trauma.

SPEAKER_01 (34:27):
But Roman didn't believe that he stole from
Dante.
He thinks he he kept saying,he's like, I think Dante might
have helped him take some of thedrugs too.

SPEAKER_03 (34:35):
Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_01 (34:36):
So he never had faith in his brother ever.
No, he didn't.

SPEAKER_03 (34:40):
That's very true.

SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
Yeah.
And they were.
But yeah, that that boydefinitely showed it end up
burnt up.

SPEAKER_03 (34:50):
What'd she say?

SPEAKER_00 (34:51):
He did not make it.

SPEAKER_03 (34:52):
Everything burns.
I said, okay.
Everything burns.
Literally.

SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
Everything and everybody, apparently.
Jesus.
The fact that it was casketsmissing like that.
It's like, cause there's likejust think about how, like, and
like he Dante, what killed methrough this book is how not
Dante, how Roman justified whathe was doing.

(35:19):
He's like, oh, this is for myfamily.
This is for my brother.
I always protect my brother.
I always do this.
When in reality, your brotherwas protecting you.
Yes.
From the beginning.
Okay.
But he's doing all thisjustification, all this, and you
know, and not to say, I mean, healready, I mean, we are he kind
of pretty much already alludedto this already, but he was

(35:41):
already a bad person.

SPEAKER_02 (35:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (35:44):
Okay, because he's making people disappear for
clients, he's hiding money inSwiss bank accounts, he knows
how to scam, do all the richpeople's scams with the stock
market and pump and dumps andall of this kind of stuff.
But it's like, you really justwant to do this.
Because he kept talking abouthow much he likes making money.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:03):
And he was like, Oh, it's like it's like, well, you
get your money and so do I.
So what if it was like, what ifhe got like almost a high off of
it?
Because now he's able to do thisstuff and get extra money that
he's not able to do on the legitside back in Atlanta.
You know what I mean?
Like now he's able to like andgo unscathed.

SPEAKER_02 (36:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
Crazy.
Because the cop that was on hisback is now dead.
Chauncey doing the best.
So Chauncey won't shit.
Oh, he was terrible.
Horrible.
I hated him.
I hated him.

SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
And I hate that Nevada got with him.

SPEAKER_00 (36:38):
Yeah.
Cause it seemed like from thedescription, she was a pretty
woman.
Like, you don't have to settlefor that.
But you know, she she wasself-loathing in a lot of ways.
And it just it just really hurtmy heart to see the way that
trauma really messed all themkids up and the daddy.
She was on she was a track star.

(36:59):
She's got all these plans, andnow she's stuck at home taking
care of a daddy.
She thinks she killed her mom.
These vocals.

SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
No, but for real though.

SPEAKER_01 (37:14):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 (37:16):
Like places.

SPEAKER_01 (37:19):
Yeah.
That's another song, too.

SPEAKER_03 (37:23):
Girl, not a singal line.
I can't sing.
I'm so sorry, y'all.
That is not my ministry.
Can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
We got we almost 20 minutes left, so we gotta get to
the other question.

SPEAKER_00 (37:34):
No, we good.
We're good.
We actually like, you go markwhere we're talking about this
right now.
So going back to the incitingincident with the mom, Roman and
Dante, and her ending up dying.
What do you think about thefather's decision to not just
move them away?

(37:55):
Because it seems like that wouldhave been like the easiest, or
not the easiest, but like thecleanest way to remove them from
the situation.

SPEAKER_01 (38:06):
I got two things.
One, I feel like he didn't wantto do it because that might make
him seem even more guilty.

SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (38:15):
Because the people of the town that gossip so it's
oh yeah, of course he moved awaybecause he did X, Y, and Z.
But two, I I don't think hewanted to leave his business.
He put too much into thatbusiness.
And there are multiple timeswhere it's like, oh, he cared
about the business more, blah,blah, blah, and all this other
stuff.
So I don't think he wanted toleave it.

(38:36):
Honestly.

SPEAKER_03 (38:38):
I can definitely do that.

SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
I hate that though.
Cause it's like in that in thatsense, maybe.
Ooh, I'm making a connection.
I'm making a connection.
Hold on.
So like, you know how we weretalking about earlier how it's
like, or I I felt anyway.
I felt like Roman used Dante asalmost like a buoy for himself,

(39:05):
almost as like something to hideall of the pain in.
Because Roman is the one who didit, but Dante is the one who has
to hold everything in and is nowusing drugs to cope with that
information.
What if it's almost like the daddid that same thing to the kids?

(39:26):
And it's just a repeatingpattern.
Because you telling me yourbusiness is this important to
you, that you're gonna sacrificeyour children, knowing people
are gonna are actively sayingthings about you killing their
mom.
Now, if you just if you made thedecision you want to take the
the blame, okay, that's fine.

(39:47):
But y'all are you are leavingthem in that exact same
situation to be treated badly,to be talked about.
Not only that, but live in thesame house.

SPEAKER_03 (39:59):
And then had them working there.
You had both of your sonsworking where they're they hurt
their mom.
Like what?

SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Oh my god, that's why it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Oh my gosh.
It does.
Like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (40:18):
And Naveza couldn't understand it, but no.
No, and Roman never saidanything to her.
Like, whenever she would saysomething, he would be just
like, Yeah.
Cause he knows.
Oh my god.
That's that makes that makessense.
Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 (40:30):
Because there was a quote there, and it was like
Navea saying, Yeah, but how manypeople got a mama who went
missing and a whole town whothinks their daddy burnt them
up?
So, like you said, just hearingthat over and over again.
And my thought was, and not justthem, I feel like a lot of
people would rather to suffersomewhere where they feel

(40:50):
familiar rather than goingsomewhere new with the
uncertainty to thrive.
Like cause Alicia, you know,you're you know, I don't know,
she's from New York or whatever,so she's not New York.
New York or whatever.
But like smaller towns.

SPEAKER_01 (41:11):
That's a good accent.

SPEAKER_03 (41:17):
But like smaller towns are like that.
Like they rather just stayexactly where they were at, or
let's just say you were thefootball star or the basketball
star.
You rather stay in that oneplace where like your glory
years are and just do whateveryou did, or your daddy did, and
your granddaddy did, opposed togoing off somewhere to really

(41:39):
like spread your wings.
And I felt like he was just kindof stuck, and then his kids were
stuck too.
Because they could have had adifferent I feel like they could
have had a different life ifthey would have packed up and
went somewhere else.
Cause like you said, people weretalking about you, but if I
ain't here, I can't hear it.

SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
I think that's what Roman did, because Roman did go
away.
But then he was still he wasstill messed up.
But it's like, but given like ifyou like you said, if he would
have if he would have stayed inJefferson Run, he wouldn't have
been able to do what he's doingor get where he's going.
And I wonder if his siblingsfeel animosity towards him

(42:18):
because of that.
Because he was really the onlyone to get out.

SPEAKER_00 (42:23):
They should have, but I think they gave him a lot
of grace.
And was he the oldest?
He didn't disappear.

SPEAKER_01 (42:31):
Or was Navea the oldest?

SPEAKER_00 (42:33):
Navea, right?
Okay.
Am I tripping?
No.

SPEAKER_03 (42:37):
I feel like he was the oldest.

SPEAKER_01 (42:42):
Yeah, I know Dante's the youngest for sure.

SPEAKER_03 (42:44):
Because she was like off doing track, and then he was
trying to get with some girlwhen all this was happening.

SPEAKER_00 (42:50):
Yeah.
So, like, it's it's that samething.
I think I think they gave him alot of grace to go away.
It's almost like they they wereproud of him for doing that.
But they really he sacrificedthem to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 (43:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
He sacrificed his sister and her happiness.
He he admitted it several times,you know, that he no, he he
wasn't a good brother.
No, he no, he didn't check in asmuch as she should have.
No, he didn't help her as muchas he should have.
And it's like, oh my gosh, he'sso incredibly selfish.

(43:32):
Oh my god.
Jealousy.
Like, I'm just I just keep goingback to the fact, like, girl,
you are stuck with a psychopath.
Because what kind of crazy,like, really, that you can lie
that easy and for that long.
And he he kept lying to himselfat the beginning.
Maybe he did have intention oneventually telling her the
truth.

(43:54):
But like he never did.

SPEAKER_01 (43:57):
And I think when you bring up he's a psychopath, I
think he's even more dangerousthan Torrent and Tranquil.
Because they use violence as away to scare people.
Somebody who is quiet, who's amanipulator, who's a thinker,

(44:17):
heavy calculate stuff.
Yes, that's that's worse to methan some because again, like
you keep you don't see it cominglike the at the end of the book.
Like where you thought the copwas gonna No, he had everything
planned.
Like you don't see it coming.
We didn't see it coming, becauseit's just like we even though we
know the whole entire time he'ssmart, we still don't he was so
many steps ahead.

(44:38):
And I wonder if that's why shefelt the way that she felt,
because again, she didn't see itcoming.
She knows who her brothers are,she knows who her daddy is.
She didn't see him coming at allwith what he was doing.

SPEAKER_03 (44:51):
It's like a constant reminder, too, because what are
you gonna be doing with yourjob?

SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
Run away.
What do you think?
Justice for jealousy.
I I'm really I'm really excitedwith the video.
J4 literally it would be likeNikki, how she put the hashtags
and all of the rant she wasgoing on last week.

SPEAKER_03 (45:17):
She was wilding.

SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Let's not get the barbs on us.
Oh no, no, no.

unknown (45:23):
Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
We like Nikki, okay?
I'm just making a jokey joke.

SPEAKER_03 (45:27):
A little bit, ha ha.
Lighthearted.
We won't know the subject.

SPEAKER_00 (45:37):
We don't want no smoke.
But I'm so excited to see thison film, on screen.
Like, you this is the one that'sgonna be a show, right?

SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
I I think so.
One of his stuff is gonna one ofhis stuff he said got um signed
off for Netflix.
I don't know which I he said itin like a a panel, QA panel, and
I don't remember which one itwas.

SPEAKER_00 (45:58):
Okay, no, it's all sinner's bleed.
Okay, so we have to read that.
Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (46:03):
Yes, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 (46:04):
But I want this to be next.
I need Netflix.
Hello.
Hello, Netflix.
The people are requesting.
I need to see this as a movie, ashow, or something, because this
was like perfect.
I don't know if y'all watched umGhost.
What's the show?
You know Power, yes.

(46:27):
Ugh, power had me on the edge ofmy seat like this.
Like, this is this was so likemmm.
The the ending, like, can I justtell me that I haven't watched
it yet?
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm talking about the ending ofthe book.
But if you have wait, youhaven't watched Power, girl,
watch power.

SPEAKER_01 (46:42):
But everybody might film and watch.
Oh, fun fact, really quickly,being from New York and all
whatever.
Um, they film episodes of poweroutside of my apartment I grew
up in.
They were filming when I wasblack in May.
Yes, there was one time my daddysaid like they were filming and
he he's always singing andhumming.
He's a singer, so he's alwaysdoing stuff.
They told him to stop and bequiet because they were trying.

SPEAKER_03 (47:03):
I live here, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (47:08):
Put him on the show and they have it, Layla.
Literally, he could have beenthe singing man number three.
I know what it's like.
That's rude.
Um, but no, like the ending ofthe book, I mean, not power.

SPEAKER_01 (47:26):
Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
It was I don't I have never I have never read a
book where the ending is sosatisfying in the way that it's
closed, but so subversive towhat you're expecting the
satisfaction to come from.
Yes.
Like I was fully expecting himto get away with everything,

(47:48):
right?
Because I did trust that Romanwas smart enough to do that.
But I didn't expect it to endlike that, but still it was so
satisfying despite it being sucha terrible, terrible situation.
Like so good.
That's what I gotta say aboutthat book.
Like, yeah, like that hit.

SPEAKER_01 (48:06):
And that's how we I want it to be a show because you
know when they make into amovie, they have ways of like
cutting stuff out.
Of a movie, I don't want that.
I need a show.
Yeah, we need all the details15, 16 episodes in detail,
everything.

SPEAKER_03 (48:20):
And you were talking about power.
I think they said his other one,I think it's black top
wasteland.
I'm sorry if I'm messing thatup, but they say that one is
really like power.

SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
Ooh.
I'm gonna try that.
S.A.
Crosby.
Cosby girl.
Cosby.
Sorry, sir.
I'm country.
SA Cosby.
Oh, he's got a book with QuestLove.
Really?
Yeah, like Quest Love, QuestLove.
Oh, that's cute.
I I just we yeah, this this bookwas great.
Like, I want to read all of hisstuff now.

(48:53):
Yes.
Like, this is probably myfavorite book of the year.

SPEAKER_03 (48:57):
It is, it's up there.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 (49:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:02):
What did y'all very much?
Oh, the what's the name?
The names.

SPEAKER_00 (49:09):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
I have my I have my dissertation.

unknown (49:13):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 (49:14):
Share.

SPEAKER_03 (49:15):
Oh, I think I want to hear, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:17):
Okay, okay, okay.
So before for those who arelistening, it's Alicia here.
So I have my master's is inliterary theory and analysis.
So this is like my favoritething to talk about.
So I'm gonna go on like a reallynerdy tangent right now.
So like with each of theirnames, like their names in
accordance to like how they act,which is like what they mean.
Of course, we have Nivea, whichis heaven, which like took me a

(49:40):
minute to get.
I was like, oh, it's like ohgod, duh.
We have Dante and Dante's namemeans enduring and steadfast,
which we know.

SPEAKER_00 (49:50):
But okay, can I just interject?
In one way, he was enduring,okay.
He never told on his brother.
Poor Dante.
Okay, but Dante too.
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (50:00):
He did he never told on his brother.

SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (50:03):
And then, like with Roman, we think about the Roman
Empire, a leader.
And then the Roman Empire didfall, so eventually, whatever.
Um, but as I was reading it andthinking about the name
meetings, I started to buildparallels between King of Ashes
and the Divine Comedy by DanteAlighieri, which is also known

(50:24):
as like Dante's Inferno, likethis the nine seven nine rings
of hell, or whatever.
So in the Divine Comedy, I'mgonna have it so written down,
we have Dante, who is 35 yearsold, pretty much around the same
age as all three of thesesiblings.
And he's like midway through thejourney of his life, and he's in
the dark, these dark woods, andhe's going astray, and that's an

(50:45):
allegory for like astray fromthe right way of living and away
from salvation of where he needsto go.
Because I think this also takesplace on like Good Friday, okay,
up until Easter.
And he goes to climb thismountain, and he's blocked by
three animals.
He's blocked by a leopard, alion, and a she-wolf, and each
is almost like an allegory for adifferent sin.

(51:06):
So we have the leopard whorepresents fraud and malice, we
have the lion who representsviolence and bestiality, and
then we have the she-wolf whorepresents incontinence, and I
think every single sibling hasthat, and incontinence is like
literally a lack ofself-control.

(51:28):
You're you're doing thingsbecause you just you're you're
lacking self-control withoutthinking about the consequences
of everything, and thenbestiality in this sense um is
seen as a degradation ofhumanity, and it's a sin so
heinous they degrade humans to alevel below animals.

(51:49):
And I was looking this up, andRodney Payton, who wrote A
Modern Reader's Guide to Dante'sInferno, said that humans,
because they are the only mortalbeings with reason, we are the
only ones capable of misusingit.
And we see that throughout thewhole entire thing.
So we have that balance, we havethe fraud, because you said
Roman lies all the time.

(52:12):
Nave is lying to herself withshe's in a lustful relationship,
like fraud there.
There's fraud throughout thewhole entire thing, going back
to when the mom is dead.
So you see that follow them thewhole entire time, and then um
the with malice, it's theintention and the desire to do

(52:34):
evil.
So we see that with like Torrentand Tranquil, and I think we
start to see that with Roman,because he's getting a taste for
it throughout it.
And yeah, that's like my littlemy little dissertation that I
found that I thought of.
Because it's like, and there'sfire and everything like that.

(52:56):
And am I saying that SA Cosbywrote it with this?
I don't know, but that's thefirst thing I thought of with
all of this.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (53:04):
Cause like Yeah, I really like that the correlation
and the points that you madebecause when I think same same
thing with Dante's Inferno, Ijust thought it was like
opposite, because like you said,steadfast, supposed to be brave,
total opposite.
Nevea heaven spelt backwards,and quite literally she's full

(53:26):
of pain, and then you got Roman,who essentially the ruler of
all, and then that's essentiallywhat he is now.
He now he runs the game.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:38):
Wow.
Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 (53:40):
I feel like he put some thought, like I feel like
he did put some real thought inbetween.

SPEAKER_00 (53:45):
He maybe put that this man is a writer, okay.
King game crazy capital W.
King Game.

SPEAKER_01 (53:52):
I don't want to know.
SA Call, if you listen to this,did you get inspiration from the
Divine Comedy?

SPEAKER_00 (53:56):
Because we would like to know.
If you want to be interviewed byus, if you would like to come on
the show, we welcome you.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (54:04):
Oh, and with with the degrad the bestiality and
decorate degradation stuff likethat, I see that a correlation
between them and Torrent andTranquil.

unknown (54:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (54:12):
Because again, that's like something so
heinous.
Like you do stuff so bad thatit's like you're less than human
now.
Because there's a part at thewhen all of their crew members
like turn on them.
And I don't remember if it wasthe one that sh that called them
out for shooting that kid or wasthe one who got his hand
smashed, but someone was like,You did this, like who does
that?
Like what like almost what humanbeing does that to another human

(54:33):
being?
And they call them out for theiranimalistic ways.
Because especially Tranquil,he's hot head, he won't write.
Something that right up there,right?
Because he was everybody,everybody was getting it left
and right.
Yeah.
So I feel like that's like a bigthing with them too, because
they were just yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (54:54):
And and to the names point again, I feel like it's
like what you said, Rikia, likehow they ended up opposite of
what their names are.
It also is kind of like likeit's it it shows you like what
their names are anyway, what itcould have been, you know, if

(55:15):
they didn't have it.
Because Roman being as smart ashe is, he would have been
successful either way.
He would have been just fine.
Dante, obviously a sensitivesoul, obviously loves his
family.
Um gosh, who knows what kind oflife he could have had if he
didn't have so much pain that hefelt the need to turn to drugs.

(55:38):
And same for Nevee.
Beautiful girl had track in her,you know, she could have gone to
college.
She wanted to go to college, shedidn't.
She could have led a beautifullife.
Now, jealousy, that's a hell ofa name.

SPEAKER_01 (55:57):
That's a that's a name.
Ironic because she has nothingthat anybody would be jealous
of, honestly.
Not right now.
No, I'm scared for him.

SPEAKER_03 (56:07):
There are some people who do envy that type of
lifestyle.
Some people probably look at itas a big thing.
Oh, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 (56:12):
You're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 (56:13):
Good-looking man, he got money, he got power.
This is what I want.
No.
Like coldest winter ever.
Y'all remember that book?
Bro.

SPEAKER_00 (56:22):
Oh, winter was a mess, bro.

SPEAKER_03 (56:24):
Midnight.
And what was the dude's name whogot her locked up?
Bullet.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:29):
Mmm.
Alicia, have you read it?

SPEAKER_01 (56:32):
No, somebody actually did recommend it though
yesterday in the video that weput for like the previous book
you ever read.

SPEAKER_00 (56:38):
Tia, I have a lot of books, okay?
Nuh-uh.
Read that one next becausethat's a classic.
Not only is it a classic, it's aquick read.
Okay, okay.
But when I tell you, oh mygoodness.
The end that, yeah, that'sdefinitely that's that's a good
one.
I'm glad that somebody suggestedthat because that is absolutely
one of those books where the endthen just had me like, ugh, what
do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 (56:58):
I need well, I'm reading right now the one that
you recommended, Keep It in theFamily.

SPEAKER_00 (57:02):
Oh, yeah.
That book was.

SPEAKER_01 (57:03):
Which I'm 31 pages and I'm already stressed out
because I know some shit's gonnabe.

SPEAKER_00 (57:09):
Um, it's Keep It in the Family.
It's by uh Jimmy.
John Mars?
John Mars.
Okay.
John Mars, like, y'all, we wediscuss a lot of different books
on our social media, but like onthe podcast, we focus more on
black and POC authors.
But John Mars is one white man.
I really like his writing.

SPEAKER_01 (57:30):
Listen, one thing a white man's gonna write is a
thriller, okay?

SPEAKER_00 (57:33):
Yeah.
He did that.
He did that.
And I read um, what's the otherbook I read of his?
The one.
And I am now reading the whatthe the marriage act.

SPEAKER_01 (57:46):
He did that one too?

SPEAKER_00 (57:48):
Yeah.
It's a whole it's a series,actually.
The one, then the marriage act,and then the next one, I think,
is I can't remember the thirdone, so I'm not gonna waste time
on that.
But yeah, it's a series, it'sreally good.
Like amazing.

SPEAKER_03 (58:03):
I need to start keeping in the family.
And that's the thing too,because even with S.A.
Cosby, I feel like men as awhole do really well with like
mystery thrillers.

SPEAKER_01 (58:14):
They do.
Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_03 (58:16):
This was really good.
I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 (58:18):
I wonder why.
I wonder why.
I just honestly, just for likeshits and giggles, I want to
read a romance by a man just tosee.

SPEAKER_00 (58:24):
We should find one.
There is one.
There's one, okay?
I there's one romance author Isee, and he he be around at some
of the um the events, like theromance festivals and stuff like
that.
I have to find him because weshould put him on the list.
Because I'm interested as well.
I've never read a fire by a man.

SPEAKER_03 (58:47):
Like Eric Jerome Dickey, I feel like I was
reading him when I didn't haveno business.
Is his considered romance?
His is like urban urban romance.
Yeah.
So yeah.
I think so.
Okay.
Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (58:59):
Now that you say that.

SPEAKER_03 (59:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (59:02):
Yeah, because when I think about male authors, like I
don't think about romanticstuff.
Like, even like the scene thatthey had in this book where it
was like their little the littletiny sex scene that they had.
I had never read like a sexwritten by a man, so I was like,
oh god.
Hold on, what's this gonna beabout?
But it was just like a littlebaby one, so I was like,
alright, fine.

(59:23):
Oh god.
But thank you guys so much forlistening.
Our next read after this is Ihave the book with me, Family
Lore by Elizabeth Acevedo.
I think I think this might beher first adult novel, actually,
because I think she mainly doesyoung adult stuff.

(59:46):
I think.
I could be completely wrong, butthis will be my first one from
her.
Family lore.
I've seen Poet X.
Like I've seen like the pictureslike on like the bookstores and
stuff, but I never actuallypicked it up.

SPEAKER_00 (59:59):
But Yeah.
Yeah, thanks for um listening inand we'll see you guys next
time.
Peace.
Bye.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
Yes, and all social media at plot on the rocks.