May 18, 2025 • 26 mins
Ever wondered if you can truly be a friend and a leader at the same time? In this candid exploration of the friendship-leadership dynamic, we dive into the beautiful complexities and potential pitfalls of building your empire alongside those you love most.
The science is fascinating—when women engage in meaningful conversation with emotional bonding, our brains release oxytocin, literally calming our nervous systems and creating biological resilience. We're wired for connection, which makes the idea of building businesses with our besties so appealing. But as we discover through conversations with various entrepreneurs, this blending requires intentionality and clear boundaries to truly thrive.
From Olivia who champions the "two people against one problem" approach that's revolutionized her business partnership with her bestie, to Shelly who maintains a firm "hard pass" on mixing friendship with leadership roles, we hear diverse perspectives that illuminate both the rewards and risks. The magic happens in the middle ground—where trust and role clarity meet, where honest conversations happen without a heavy hand, and where supporting each other's success becomes the foundation rather than an afterthought.
For my recovering people-pleasers, this episode offers a powerful wake-up call. Leadership gets complicated when you're wired to keep the peace and ensure everyone's happiness at your own expense. Friendship in business can become a hiding place—a reason to avoid necessary conflict or tolerate misaligned behavior. But hear this: sacrificing your standards to protect someone's feelings isn't kindness; it's self-abandonment in disguise. You deserve to lead with both love and boundaries, creating spaces where everyone can rise authentically.
Ready to build relationships that fuel your mission rather than drain your energy? Listen now, and remember—protecting your peace isn't disloyal. That's leadership.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
hey, friend, it's steph your mojo.
Maven here and welcome topocket full of mojo, where we
don't do fluff, we do fire.
This is your weekly wake-upcall to ditch the doubt, own
your power and strut into yournext level.
In today's episode we'retalking friendship and
leadership power combo orticking time bomb.
(00:33):
So welcome you, lovely creature.
You've come for the mojo andyou want to stay for the
takeaways.
So, without further ado, let'slet it up you legend.
Let's let it up you legend.
We are in the boss babe era ofthe world and birthing more lady
leaders than ever before.
(00:53):
Leading with feminine energy isshocker kind of new.
So this trailblazing is fun andexhilarating.
We love the idea of buildingwith our besties, leading with
love and creating magic withpeople we actually like.
We bit of a pivot from the oldpatriarchy man's club I know I
grew up in.
(01:14):
But real talk, mixing friendshipand leadership, can be tricky
territory.
The lines blur, feelings getinvolved and if you're not
careful you'll find yourselfbabysitting egos instead of
leading boldly.
In this convo, we're unpackingthe risks, the rewards and how
to protect your peace and yourpower when relationships and
(01:34):
roles collide.
So let's talk about somethingthat no one really prepares you
for when you start chasing bigdreams?
What happens when friendshipand leadership mix Sounds dreamy
right.
Build your empire with yourbesties, lead a team that feels
like family, create connectionsthat fuel your fire and listen.
(01:55):
When it works, it's magic.
There's trust, there's laughter, there's a shorthand, there's
I've got your back energy thatmakes everything fun and
smoother.
And here's a fun fact I learnedon the old internet when women
talk to each other and have likemeaningful conversation and
there's an emotional bond, thathappens.
The brain releases oxytocin,which means female friendships
(02:19):
are literally calming yournervous system, because oxytocin
is linked to feelings of trustand connection and safety and
emotional regulation.
It's the same hormone releasedduring physical touch or
breastfeeding and childbirth,literally wired into our biology
to create calm and connection.
(02:40):
And for my queens in particular, this is extra significant.
There's some research that theydid at UCLA where they found
that women under stress are morelikely to engage, what's called
a tend and befriend response.
Think fight or flight, butgentle.
They instinctively seek outconnection, comfort and
(03:03):
community as a way to regulatetheir nervous system and cope
with challenges.
We're better as a tribe.
So when you're talking with atrusted friend, sharing your
truth and laughing and ventingand bitching and supporting each
other.
Cheerleading, you're not justbonding emotionally.
You're lowering your cortisollevels, which helps to regulate
(03:26):
your nervous system, and itboosts your resilience.
You get back on your feetfaster and it just improves your
overall emotional health.
So the takeaway here is thatfemale friendships aren't a
luxury.
They're a biological bomb.
They're healing, they'regrounding and literally helping
us hold it all together, becauseyou know we'd be doing that.
(03:48):
People who hype each other upare a different kind of magic.
This episode is a call out toget yourself a circle that
doesn't just see you glow, theyamplify it.
Those are your people.
But let's get real for a second.
When boundaries blur, the rolesget muddy and expectations
aren't clear, and it can turninto this messy soup of
(04:11):
miscommunication, resentment andjust drama that you didn't sign
up for.
So today we're unpacking thepros and cons, the traps, the
triumphs, the what to actuallylook out for when friendships
and leaderships come together.
So let's start by unpacking thepros, because when it's good,
it's gold.
When I first started writingthis episode, it was only going
(04:34):
to be about friendship, but theidea evolved after I went to
this networking event earlierthis week.
It's this really uniqueframework for networking and
it's called small talks and it'slike networking that kind of
looks like speed dating.
So you sit with oneentrepreneur, chat for 10
minutes on the specific subjectthis month it was leadership and
then a bell rings and you movealong to the next entrepreneur.
(04:56):
One stays put, one moves along,brilliant right.
So I'm navigating this eventand talking to these powerful,
insightful entrepreneurs and itdawned on me that we're living
in this really interesting timein our history where we're
creating and navigating personaland professional relationships
differently than we ever havebefore, on a scale we've never
(05:17):
seen.
Now, the last time I was aleader of a team, I was fully
entrenched, in the height of mypeople-pleasing abilities and
just wanted everyone to like meand my role was to keep everyone
happy, keep the peace.
And since I've come a long wayfrom that place, I wanted to
take my query to the streets andtalk to people who are leading
(05:37):
their businesses and discoverwhat's the relationship between
friendship and leadership.
And boy did I get some juicyinsights Like take my new friend
Olivia, for example.
She's in graphic design and shetook the bold badass babe move
to start her own thing.
And the only thing better thanone badass babe with a vision is
(05:58):
two of them.
So she launched her own showwith her bestie.
Now, olivia was a huge inspo forthis episode because she really
had her finger on the pulse ofhow to make it work, and the
impression that she gave me wasthat she couldn't even imagine
leading any other way.
So I naturally asked her what'sthe secret?
(06:19):
And here's what she said.
She came in hot when I askedwhat's the biggest impact of
having a business with yourbestie and her answer was trust.
Trust is built in she's likeyou know each other, you've been
in the trenches and that cancreate this rock solid
foundation for collaboration andcreative flow.
Now, when she mentioned trust, Iimmediately leaned in, because
(06:42):
what I know for sure is thattrust is really built when
things are hard and not whenthey're easy.
So I asked what's the secret?
And her answer actuallysurprised me.
She said that trust is built byhaving the courage to have the
hard conversations and becauseit's with someone that you love
and respect and admire and youwant them to win and you want
(07:06):
them to win with you.
There's extra motivation andsolid framework for what that
looks like and I was like, okay,what does that look like and
she talked about that when therewas a problem or a failure or a
conflict, that they shoulder ittogether.
They share the load.
That's two people against oneproblem was how she put it.
(07:27):
I just thought that was sogreat because it takes all the
emotion out of it and they finda solution twice as fast.
No hard feelings, no mentalityof your problem, you fix it.
That creates the divides andthe isolation.
True collaboration, free of egoand competition.
So healthy, so 2025.
And she shared thatcommunication actually can be
(07:50):
easier.
How's that for a mindset shift?
She told me about how there'sthis shorthand, this shared
language, this willingness tocut through the bullshit and the
fluff, but also she kept sayingthat you can say hard things
without a heavy hand.
And she just she acted out thisperfect example, like if
(08:11):
something tricky needed to becommunicated or somebody fucked
up or there was anaccountability gap.
The approach wasn't like, hey,what the fuck?
Like, what about this?
Or not saying anything at all,which is even perhaps worse.
Is she just kind of?
You know, you walk into theoffice and you're like, hey, you
(08:31):
got a minute, there's thisthing, we got to talk about this
thing, and then you just createthis container of respect and
love so that the information canbe properly heard and not
clouded by emotions or createpain from a lack of respect,
something that you don't have tolook too hard to find in a more
(08:52):
traditional work setting.
Truth is, people are morelikely to hear you when they
aren't threatened by the waythat it's being said.
Find a better example ofleading with feminine energy.
I'll wait Now.
Olivia talked about how thisbusiness friendship is actually
their superpower and theyactively see it that way.
She talked about how itinfluences how they show up for
(09:15):
themselves as well as each other, because, let's be honest, it
feels good when your bestie iswinning.
That's got to be a universaltruth, right, like it feels even
better when you're both on thepodium.
Let's not pretend it doesn't,or that there has to be drama or
hardship in order to win.
What if we didn't have drama?
(09:36):
I'm not saying it wouldn't flowwithout challenge, but I'm
realistic about what that wouldlook like.
But there's something deeplysatisfying about succeeding
alongside people you love andfailing know that you're going
to continue to be lovedunconditionally.
And what Olivia shared with mewas that when they both have a
vested interest in success, it'slike you've doubled down on
(09:58):
your intent to succeed and thereare two of you working in the
same direction with the fullsupport of each other, and
there's an inherent confidencebuilt into that plan.
Now maybe you're listening tothis and your instincts are more
like Shelly's.
Shelly was the next stop on thisnetworking circuit and let me
tell you she is here to pointout the cons.
(10:19):
Shelly was a hard no and reallylaid it out for me what it can
look like when things get tricky.
So after I asked Shelly whatshe thought about the
relationship between friendshipand leadership, she couldn't
have been more resolved, hardpass, and I love a queen with a
firm point of view.
So I dug in further.
When I asked her to tell memore, she couldn't have been
(10:40):
more clear.
It's too messy.
Boundaries blur.
Are you the boss or the bestie,the collaborator, the confidant
?
It gets murky really fast.
Now I could tell right away.
This girl could lead a masterclass in boundaries, and she
said it was a lesson that shelearned early from her dad,
interestingly enough, thatbusiness and friendship do not
(11:03):
mix.
As a boss, I don't care thatyour dog is sick and that's why
you're two hours late for work,but as a friend I want to know
is little Rusty doing?
Okay, you know, and don't getit twisted.
Shelly backed up her stance byclarifying that a good work
environment can still be humaneand friendly and compassionate,
but role clarity is queen whenyou're working with Shelly.
(11:26):
She warned that when workingwith friends, the feedback gets
filtered.
Sometimes we don't say the hardthing because we don't want to
hurt someone we care about.
You hear me, people pleasersand that's how mediocrity sneaks
in and trust quietly erodes andthen everyone's got a whole
different story in their headand expectations get unspoken
(11:48):
and assumptions replace actualconversations.
And we all know whatassumptions do.
And if you're not careful,resentment builds Ugh.
Resentment is a hard bell tounring.
If one person is carrying moreweight or not feeling heard, it
doesn't take long before thingsget heavy.
You can't fly as high whenyou're carrying extra weight,
(12:11):
especially when that weight'snot yours.
And this doesn't just pop upwhen we're working directly with
our friends.
Sometimes we want to collaboratewith our friends and our
colleagues or hire them for ashort-term project to show
support.
But we can get caught in thisweird spot if we keep our friend
blinders on, like would youhire them if you didn't know
(12:31):
them.
Do they have testimonials andproof that they can solve the
problem that you're trying toconquer?
Maybe, maybe not, but I've seenmore than one friendship get
strained or fall into a weirdplace because they didn't know
how to navigate the toughconversations or were
necessarily prepared forfeedback and insights that
(12:52):
weren't on the contract.
So then the bell rings andturns out the next conversation.
I had added even moreperspective to this particular
conundrum, so I moseyed on overto sit with my girl Megan, an
exceptional leader and colleague, and I was excited to get her
tick and then, surprisingly, Igot more of a proceed with
(13:12):
caution, vibe.
So I keep talking with her andshe had a really good grip on
some of these common traps thatcan pop up when you're working
closely with a friend.
So here's what she said Workingwith friends without role
clarity is like building abusiness on quicksand.
Just because you vibe doesn'tmean they're right for the role
or that they respect you as aleader.
(13:33):
Perception can be really trickyand when there's friendship
involved and history to lean on,there can be assumptions and
projections.
Maybe they're valid, maybethey're not, but if you don't go
into the nitty-gritty black andwhite, everything from A to Z
create the right framework forcommunication, things can get
(13:54):
really muddy really fast.
She said and I love this ifregular check-ins and
communication is not normalized,then every conversation becomes
a tough conversation, becausebusiness conversations can sound
and feel a lot different thanthe chats that you have when
you're going for a walk or goingfor a coffee.
So that foreign feeling cancause us to defer or deflect and
(14:18):
avoid any conversation.
That sounds too formal becausethat's not the kind of
communication you've had in thepast, and this can lead to
overgiving.
You go into friend mode.
You start rescuing, fixing,making too many exceptions,
ignoring your own needs, andthis can lead to overgiving.
You go into friend mode.
You start rescuing, fixing,making too many exceptions,
ignoring your own needs, andthis can be a normal instinct
for wanting to do what's rightand keep the peace, even if it
(14:39):
takes you out of your lane,because you're doing it from the
intention of support, like youwould for a friend.
Right, that's not leadership,though.
Right, that's not leadership,though, that's self-abandonment,
with a smile on for a paycheck,and it's the slow road to get
where you want to go.
(14:59):
And she said it'll show up whenyou're avoiding tough
conversations, when you see thatopportunity to talk about the
thing and then you don't say itbecause it's not a good time and
all that other thing justhappened and eventually the
business is going to suffer Likethat's pretty much a guarantee,
and by nature, of the undefinedrelationship.
If you haven't defined therelationship, you're going to
find yourself expecting loyaltyover performance because you had
(15:22):
their back so many times.
But friendship isn't asubstitute for follow through.
You need both and both of youneed to be super clear on what
it looks like and what role eachof you play in making that
happen.
She said get specific about itand do it early Now.
We can also look at friendshipand leadership from a different
(15:42):
angle.
What if we're not workingdirectly with our friends but
they're an ally in our ventures?
How does this impact our path?
Which takes me to theconversation I had with my girl,
kelsey.
She almost fell out of herchair with enthusiasm at the
idea that friendship andcommunity is everything when it
(16:02):
comes to entrepreneurship.
She said it's at the heart andsoul of everything.
She talked about how havingsomeone to reflect where you are
back to you is so insightfuland to have someone in your
corner loving youunconditionally.
Just having someone else whowants you to win.
(16:22):
That kind of cheerleading forher was so important, especially
as a solopreneur, because I cantell you it can get lonely and
isolating and you're working ina vacuum and you're chasing
after likes as some kind of ameasurement of where you're at.
But having those real humansupports and people in your life
who are going to love you, winor lose, that is priceless.
(16:46):
She also said that sometimes wecome across the people who
support us in ways that we don'tnecessarily ask for, like the
friend we want to vent to aboutsomething, but instead of
listening, they come in hardwith a solution when all we
really want is to be heard, youknow.
So yeah, that's.
It's a kind of a rich anglebecause when your friends aren't
(17:07):
directly in the trenches withyou but they're still
emotionally invested, cheeringyou on, offering feedback,
sharing your wins and yourcontent, being supportive and
sometimes unexpectedlycomplicated, so when friends are
allies, not partners, here'swhat it means for your path.
(17:28):
When you've got friends thataren't employees, teammates,
business partners, but they'restill in your corner, you've got
a powerful support system.
These are the people who shareyour posts.
They clap the loudest when youwin.
They believe in your vision,even if they don't fully
understand it.
That is gold.
It's emotional fuel for thelong haul journey.
(17:50):
But I got to be honest, it canalso come with some unexpected
emotional hurdles that you kindof have to have a heads up for.
But let's first look at therewards, because you get that
unfiltered encouragement right.
They're easier to impress,there's not a lot of logistics
involved and it's like justgenuine hype, like there's no
strings, there's just support.
And now you've got this safespace Because they're not
(18:15):
tangled in the business itself,they don't have a horse in the
race.
So you can vent, you canbrainstorm or just talk out loud
and have someone bounce ideasoff of you without worrying if
it'll affect operations.
And it gives you an outsideperspective.
They see your blind spot, theyremind you who you are when the
world gets loud and you forget.
(18:35):
And they're your friends.
So you've got shared values.
Often the friends who show upin this way are really aligned
with your mission.
So their support feels real andfeels rooted.
But here comes the PSA.
There's going to be some risksand some hurdles.
So this is your heads up sothat you can get ahead of it
before it gets sticky.
Okay, so these are some of therisks and hurdles, because one
(18:58):
of the things that you're goingto potentially come across is
the expectation versus theentitlement.
So, like this would be, whenfriends expect special treatment
like discounts and shout outsand behind the scenes access
without actually asking for it,because they've been supporting
you, if they feel entitled foryou to like, make it up to them,
(19:21):
even if it's not, that's not,that's not, that's not the jam,
that's not the agreement whichmight actually cause that
support to shift.
So maybe they were ride or dieat first, but now they're
quieter and that silence canfeel really loud and it's very
tempting to take it personally,especially if you're someone who
(19:41):
gives a lot.
We often cheer the way we wantto be cheered for, and you'll
also want to be aware ofsomething that's called
emotional over-resilience,because it's tempting to turn a
supportive friend into anunofficial coach or sounding
board for absolutely everything,especially if they're really
good at it.
So the caution here is thatthat can quietly exhaust them.
(20:04):
They may want to talk to youabout something else at some
point and they're your friend,so they're going to be slow to
tell you.
But if you leave this unchecked, it can skew the friendship
dynamic and that's hard to winback.
Ooh, and one more pothole tolook out for and it's not cute
but it's real.
There can be some unspokenjealousy or comparison,
(20:25):
especially if they're also kindof doing what you do like if
you're a couple of entrepreneurs, of doing what you do like.
If you're a couple ofentrepreneurs, if either one of
you experiences growth or goesviral or, you know, pops your
cherry on your latest goal, itmight change the vibe.
Your wins might triggersomething in them and if it's
unspoken, there might be tension.
(20:46):
There might be something unsaid, there might be a little vibe
that's off, just something toput on the radar.
So this is just what you wantto watch out for and how to keep
it clean.
You want to first check yourexpectations.
Does anyone but you know whatthey are?
Are you expecting them to showup like a team member when
they're just a cheerleader?
(21:06):
Because that's a mismatch.
You're going to want to bemindful of the emotional labor.
Is this friend becoming yourtherapist, your strategist, your
spiritual hype woman all in one?
They might need a littlebreathing room.
Be sure to schedule a work-freebreakfast date or a no business
allowed night out and frame itas self-care and just nurture
(21:28):
the root of your relationship,the friend part.
Give the leader a night off.
And the next key celebrate,don't compete.
Keep the friendship sacred byremoving the scoreboards.
Stop keeping track of the titfor tat.
Not everyone claps loudly andthat doesn't mean that they
don't care.
You made a post and they didn'tlike it.
(21:49):
That has to be okay with you.
Remind yourself all the otherways that they show up for you
and, of course, lead withgratitude.
Right Like a quick thanks forbeing in my corner goes a long
way.
A little handwritten note buythem a Slurpee.
Friends aren't obligated to showup for your business, but when
they do, that can be magic.
(22:09):
So to wrap up, friendshipdoesn't have to be entangled in
your business to be impactful.
When you honor the role yourfriends play, without
overloading or underappreciating them, you get to
experience leadership andconnection without the messy
bits, you know, but I got timefor that.
Because when you're clear,honest and boundaried, you can
(22:31):
create a team culture that'srooted in respect and connection
.
You can build partnerships thatgrow with you, not ones that
quietly resent your success, andyou can create space for
everyone to rise, not just you.
That's powerful leadership.
So be on the lookout.
Look for people who don't justlike you but respect you.
(22:53):
Look for friends who can handlehonest feedback and give it too
.
Pair up with teammates you wantto win with.
So at the end of the day,business is personal, but it
can't be too personal.
Leadership isn't about choosingbetween being kind and being
clear.
It's about being both.
(23:14):
Your higher self already knowswhen something's out of
alignment.
You just have to be braveenough to listen and bold enough
to speak.
So the next time you'reblending friendship with
leadership, just ask yourself isthis serving my mission, my
growth and my integrity?
And if it's a yes, go, build anempire together.
(23:35):
If it's a no, bless and releasewith love, because protecting
your peace is not disloyal.
That's leadership, and remembermy recovering people pleasers.
Leadership gets complicated whenyou're wired to keep the peace,
avoid conflict and make sureeveryone else is okay, often at
(23:55):
your own expense.
Friendship in business can feelsafe, but it can also become a
hiding place, a way to avoidhard conversations, a reason to
tolerate behavior that doesn'talign.
You might find yourselfoverextending, undercharging,
taking on extra emotional laboror bending your boundaries just
(24:16):
to keep the vibe good, but hearthis sacrificing your standards
to protect someone's feelingsisn't kindness, it's
self-abandonment in disguise.
And no mission, no brand, nobusiness can thrive if you're
constantly choosing comfort overclarity.
So when you're leading from thehigher self and not the fear of
(24:37):
being misunderstood, everythingshifts.
You stop managing otherpeople's emotions and start
managing your own energy.
You get to be honest andcompassionate, firm and kind,
boundaried and deeply respected.
Friendship and leadership canabsolutely thrive together, but
(24:59):
only when your people know howto handle the whole you, not
just the agreeable version.
So lead with love, not withguilt.
And remember you weren't madeto be palatable, you were made
to be powerful.
And just like that you've got alittle bit more insight, a
(25:22):
little bit more clarity and yourvery own pocketful of mojo.
You can carry it with youbecause now you're on a path to
a life you love, so that you canlove the life you live.
So here's our tiny but mightychallenge for the week.
My friends Reach out to afriend that helps regulate your
nervous system just by being inyour life.
Let them know that kind ofconnection.
(25:44):
It's more precious than gold.
Nurture it, buy them flowers,buy them chocolates, handwrite a
note, feed it.
So until next time, keepleading with love.
Stay rooted in your truth andremember you don't have to have
it all together to be powerful.
You just need Mojo.
Remember Mojo Reno's.
(26:08):
Our time on this planet isfinite, but the love we can have
and share and experience, babe,that's infinite.
Go spend it wildly.
Check out the show notes formore ways to tap into your mojo.
Thank you for all your reviewsand subscriptions.
So until next time, I couldjust kind of get you to stay
fabulous, stay kind and put lovein everything you do.
Ciao for now.
hey, friend, it's steph your mojo.
Maven here and welcome topocket full of mojo, where we
don't do fluff, we do fire.
This is your weekly wake-upcall to ditch the doubt, own
your power and strut into yournext level.
In today's episode we'retalking friendship and
leadership power combo orticking time bomb.
(00:33):
So welcome you, lovely creature.
You've come for the mojo andyou want to stay for the
takeaways.
So, without further ado, let'slet it up you legend.
Let's let it up you legend.
We are in the boss babe era ofthe world and birthing more lady
leaders than ever before.
(00:53):
Leading with feminine energy isshocker kind of new.
So this trailblazing is fun andexhilarating.
We love the idea of buildingwith our besties, leading with
love and creating magic withpeople we actually like.
We bit of a pivot from the oldpatriarchy man's club I know I
grew up in.
(01:14):
But real talk, mixing friendshipand leadership, can be tricky
territory.
The lines blur, feelings getinvolved and if you're not
careful you'll find yourselfbabysitting egos instead of
leading boldly.
In this convo, we're unpackingthe risks, the rewards and how
to protect your peace and yourpower when relationships and
(01:34):
roles collide.
So let's talk about somethingthat no one really prepares you
for when you start chasing bigdreams?
What happens when friendshipand leadership mix Sounds dreamy
right.
Build your empire with yourbesties, lead a team that feels
like family, create connectionsthat fuel your fire and listen.
(01:55):
When it works, it's magic.
There's trust, there's laughter, there's a shorthand, there's
I've got your back energy thatmakes everything fun and
smoother.
And here's a fun fact I learnedon the old internet when women
talk to each other and have likemeaningful conversation and
there's an emotional bond, thathappens.
The brain releases oxytocin,which means female friendships
(02:19):
are literally calming yournervous system, because oxytocin
is linked to feelings of trustand connection and safety and
emotional regulation.
It's the same hormone releasedduring physical touch or
breastfeeding and childbirth,literally wired into our biology
to create calm and connection.
(02:40):
And for my queens in particular, this is extra significant.
There's some research that theydid at UCLA where they found
that women under stress are morelikely to engage, what's called
a tend and befriend response.
Think fight or flight, butgentle.
They instinctively seek outconnection, comfort and
(03:03):
community as a way to regulatetheir nervous system and cope
with challenges.
We're better as a tribe.
So when you're talking with atrusted friend, sharing your
truth and laughing and ventingand bitching and supporting each
other.
Cheerleading, you're not justbonding emotionally.
You're lowering your cortisollevels, which helps to regulate
(03:26):
your nervous system, and itboosts your resilience.
You get back on your feetfaster and it just improves your
overall emotional health.
So the takeaway here is thatfemale friendships aren't a
luxury.
They're a biological bomb.
They're healing, they'regrounding and literally helping
us hold it all together, becauseyou know we'd be doing that.
(03:48):
People who hype each other upare a different kind of magic.
This episode is a call out toget yourself a circle that
doesn't just see you glow, theyamplify it.
Those are your people.
But let's get real for a second.
When boundaries blur, the rolesget muddy and expectations
aren't clear, and it can turninto this messy soup of
(04:11):
miscommunication, resentment andjust drama that you didn't sign
up for.
So today we're unpacking thepros and cons, the traps, the
triumphs, the what to actuallylook out for when friendships
and leaderships come together.
So let's start by unpacking thepros, because when it's good,
it's gold.
When I first started writingthis episode, it was only going
(04:34):
to be about friendship, but theidea evolved after I went to
this networking event earlierthis week.
It's this really uniqueframework for networking and
it's called small talks and it'slike networking that kind of
looks like speed dating.
So you sit with oneentrepreneur, chat for 10
minutes on the specific subjectthis month it was leadership and
then a bell rings and you movealong to the next entrepreneur.
(04:56):
One stays put, one moves along,brilliant right.
So I'm navigating this eventand talking to these powerful,
insightful entrepreneurs and itdawned on me that we're living
in this really interesting timein our history where we're
creating and navigating personaland professional relationships
differently than we ever havebefore, on a scale we've never
(05:17):
seen.
Now, the last time I was aleader of a team, I was fully
entrenched, in the height of mypeople-pleasing abilities and
just wanted everyone to like meand my role was to keep everyone
happy, keep the peace.
And since I've come a long wayfrom that place, I wanted to
take my query to the streets andtalk to people who are leading
(05:37):
their businesses and discoverwhat's the relationship between
friendship and leadership.
And boy did I get some juicyinsights Like take my new friend
Olivia, for example.
She's in graphic design and shetook the bold badass babe move
to start her own thing.
And the only thing better thanone badass babe with a vision is
(05:58):
two of them.
So she launched her own showwith her bestie.
Now, olivia was a huge inspo forthis episode because she really
had her finger on the pulse ofhow to make it work, and the
impression that she gave me wasthat she couldn't even imagine
leading any other way.
So I naturally asked her what'sthe secret?
(06:19):
And here's what she said.
She came in hot when I askedwhat's the biggest impact of
having a business with yourbestie and her answer was trust.
Trust is built in she's likeyou know each other, you've been
in the trenches and that cancreate this rock solid
foundation for collaboration andcreative flow.
Now, when she mentioned trust, Iimmediately leaned in, because
(06:42):
what I know for sure is thattrust is really built when
things are hard and not whenthey're easy.
So I asked what's the secret?
And her answer actuallysurprised me.
She said that trust is built byhaving the courage to have the
hard conversations and becauseit's with someone that you love
and respect and admire and youwant them to win and you want
(07:06):
them to win with you.
There's extra motivation andsolid framework for what that
looks like and I was like, okay,what does that look like and
she talked about that when therewas a problem or a failure or a
conflict, that they shoulder ittogether.
They share the load.
That's two people against oneproblem was how she put it.
(07:27):
I just thought that was sogreat because it takes all the
emotion out of it and they finda solution twice as fast.
No hard feelings, no mentalityof your problem, you fix it.
That creates the divides andthe isolation.
True collaboration, free of egoand competition.
So healthy, so 2025.
And she shared thatcommunication actually can be
(07:50):
easier.
How's that for a mindset shift?
She told me about how there'sthis shorthand, this shared
language, this willingness tocut through the bullshit and the
fluff, but also she kept sayingthat you can say hard things
without a heavy hand.
And she just she acted out thisperfect example, like if
(08:11):
something tricky needed to becommunicated or somebody fucked
up or there was anaccountability gap.
The approach wasn't like, hey,what the fuck?
Like, what about this?
Or not saying anything at all,which is even perhaps worse.
Is she just kind of?
You know, you walk into theoffice and you're like, hey, you
(08:31):
got a minute, there's thisthing, we got to talk about this
thing, and then you just createthis container of respect and
love so that the information canbe properly heard and not
clouded by emotions or createpain from a lack of respect,
something that you don't have tolook too hard to find in a more
(08:52):
traditional work setting.
Truth is, people are morelikely to hear you when they
aren't threatened by the waythat it's being said.
Find a better example ofleading with feminine energy.
I'll wait Now.
Olivia talked about how thisbusiness friendship is actually
their superpower and theyactively see it that way.
She talked about how itinfluences how they show up for
(09:15):
themselves as well as each other, because, let's be honest, it
feels good when your bestie iswinning.
That's got to be a universaltruth, right, like it feels even
better when you're both on thepodium.
Let's not pretend it doesn't,or that there has to be drama or
hardship in order to win.
What if we didn't have drama?
(09:36):
I'm not saying it wouldn't flowwithout challenge, but I'm
realistic about what that wouldlook like.
But there's something deeplysatisfying about succeeding
alongside people you love andfailing know that you're going
to continue to be lovedunconditionally.
And what Olivia shared with mewas that when they both have a
vested interest in success, it'slike you've doubled down on
(09:58):
your intent to succeed and thereare two of you working in the
same direction with the fullsupport of each other, and
there's an inherent confidencebuilt into that plan.
Now maybe you're listening tothis and your instincts are more
like Shelly's.
Shelly was the next stop on thisnetworking circuit and let me
tell you she is here to pointout the cons.
(10:19):
Shelly was a hard no and reallylaid it out for me what it can
look like when things get tricky.
So after I asked Shelly whatshe thought about the
relationship between friendshipand leadership, she couldn't
have been more resolved, hardpass, and I love a queen with a
firm point of view.
So I dug in further.
When I asked her to tell memore, she couldn't have been
(10:40):
more clear.
It's too messy.
Boundaries blur.
Are you the boss or the bestie,the collaborator, the confidant
?
It gets murky really fast.
Now I could tell right away.
This girl could lead a masterclass in boundaries, and she
said it was a lesson that shelearned early from her dad,
interestingly enough, thatbusiness and friendship do not
(11:03):
mix.
As a boss, I don't care thatyour dog is sick and that's why
you're two hours late for work,but as a friend I want to know
is little Rusty doing?
Okay, you know, and don't getit twisted.
Shelly backed up her stance byclarifying that a good work
environment can still be humaneand friendly and compassionate,
but role clarity is queen whenyou're working with Shelly.
(11:26):
She warned that when workingwith friends, the feedback gets
filtered.
Sometimes we don't say the hardthing because we don't want to
hurt someone we care about.
You hear me, people pleasersand that's how mediocrity sneaks
in and trust quietly erodes andthen everyone's got a whole
different story in their headand expectations get unspoken
(11:48):
and assumptions replace actualconversations.
And we all know whatassumptions do.
And if you're not careful,resentment builds Ugh.
Resentment is a hard bell tounring.
If one person is carrying moreweight or not feeling heard, it
doesn't take long before thingsget heavy.
You can't fly as high whenyou're carrying extra weight,
(12:11):
especially when that weight'snot yours.
And this doesn't just pop upwhen we're working directly with
our friends.
Sometimes we want to collaboratewith our friends and our
colleagues or hire them for ashort-term project to show
support.
But we can get caught in thisweird spot if we keep our friend
blinders on, like would youhire them if you didn't know
(12:31):
them.
Do they have testimonials andproof that they can solve the
problem that you're trying toconquer?
Maybe, maybe not, but I've seenmore than one friendship get
strained or fall into a weirdplace because they didn't know
how to navigate the toughconversations or were
necessarily prepared forfeedback and insights that
(12:52):
weren't on the contract.
So then the bell rings andturns out the next conversation.
I had added even moreperspective to this particular
conundrum, so I moseyed on overto sit with my girl Megan, an
exceptional leader and colleague, and I was excited to get her
tick and then, surprisingly, Igot more of a proceed with
(13:12):
caution, vibe.
So I keep talking with her andshe had a really good grip on
some of these common traps thatcan pop up when you're working
closely with a friend.
So here's what she said Workingwith friends without role
clarity is like building abusiness on quicksand.
Just because you vibe doesn'tmean they're right for the role
or that they respect you as aleader.
(13:33):
Perception can be really trickyand when there's friendship
involved and history to lean on,there can be assumptions and
projections.
Maybe they're valid, maybethey're not, but if you don't go
into the nitty-gritty black andwhite, everything from A to Z
create the right framework forcommunication, things can get
(13:54):
really muddy really fast.
She said and I love this ifregular check-ins and
communication is not normalized,then every conversation becomes
a tough conversation, becausebusiness conversations can sound
and feel a lot different thanthe chats that you have when
you're going for a walk or goingfor a coffee.
So that foreign feeling cancause us to defer or deflect and
(14:18):
avoid any conversation.
That sounds too formal becausethat's not the kind of
communication you've had in thepast, and this can lead to
overgiving.
You go into friend mode.
You start rescuing, fixing,making too many exceptions,
ignoring your own needs, andthis can lead to overgiving.
You go into friend mode.
You start rescuing, fixing,making too many exceptions,
ignoring your own needs, andthis can be a normal instinct
for wanting to do what's rightand keep the peace, even if it
(14:39):
takes you out of your lane,because you're doing it from the
intention of support, like youwould for a friend.
Right, that's not leadership,though.
Right, that's not leadership,though, that's self-abandonment,
with a smile on for a paycheck,and it's the slow road to get
where you want to go.
(14:59):
And she said it'll show up whenyou're avoiding tough
conversations, when you see thatopportunity to talk about the
thing and then you don't say itbecause it's not a good time and
all that other thing justhappened and eventually the
business is going to suffer Likethat's pretty much a guarantee,
and by nature, of the undefinedrelationship.
If you haven't defined therelationship, you're going to
find yourself expecting loyaltyover performance because you had
(15:22):
their back so many times.
But friendship isn't asubstitute for follow through.
You need both and both of youneed to be super clear on what
it looks like and what role eachof you play in making that
happen.
She said get specific about itand do it early Now.
We can also look at friendshipand leadership from a different
(15:42):
angle.
What if we're not workingdirectly with our friends but
they're an ally in our ventures?
How does this impact our path?
Which takes me to theconversation I had with my girl,
kelsey.
She almost fell out of herchair with enthusiasm at the
idea that friendship andcommunity is everything when it
(16:02):
comes to entrepreneurship.
She said it's at the heart andsoul of everything.
She talked about how havingsomeone to reflect where you are
back to you is so insightfuland to have someone in your
corner loving youunconditionally.
Just having someone else whowants you to win.
(16:22):
That kind of cheerleading forher was so important, especially
as a solopreneur, because I cantell you it can get lonely and
isolating and you're working ina vacuum and you're chasing
after likes as some kind of ameasurement of where you're at.
But having those real humansupports and people in your life
who are going to love you, winor lose, that is priceless.
(16:46):
She also said that sometimes wecome across the people who
support us in ways that we don'tnecessarily ask for, like the
friend we want to vent to aboutsomething, but instead of
listening, they come in hardwith a solution when all we
really want is to be heard, youknow.
So yeah, that's.
It's a kind of a rich anglebecause when your friends aren't
(17:07):
directly in the trenches withyou but they're still
emotionally invested, cheeringyou on, offering feedback,
sharing your wins and yourcontent, being supportive and
sometimes unexpectedlycomplicated, so when friends are
allies, not partners, here'swhat it means for your path.
(17:28):
When you've got friends thataren't employees, teammates,
business partners, but they'restill in your corner, you've got
a powerful support system.
These are the people who shareyour posts.
They clap the loudest when youwin.
They believe in your vision,even if they don't fully
understand it.
That is gold.
It's emotional fuel for thelong haul journey.
(17:50):
But I got to be honest, it canalso come with some unexpected
emotional hurdles that you kindof have to have a heads up for.
But let's first look at therewards, because you get that
unfiltered encouragement right.
They're easier to impress,there's not a lot of logistics
involved and it's like justgenuine hype, like there's no
strings, there's just support.
And now you've got this safespace Because they're not
(18:15):
tangled in the business itself,they don't have a horse in the
race.
So you can vent, you canbrainstorm or just talk out loud
and have someone bounce ideasoff of you without worrying if
it'll affect operations.
And it gives you an outsideperspective.
They see your blind spot, theyremind you who you are when the
world gets loud and you forget.
(18:35):
And they're your friends.
So you've got shared values.
Often the friends who show upin this way are really aligned
with your mission.
So their support feels real andfeels rooted.
But here comes the PSA.
There's going to be some risksand some hurdles.
So this is your heads up sothat you can get ahead of it
before it gets sticky.
Okay, so these are some of therisks and hurdles, because one
(18:58):
of the things that you're goingto potentially come across is
the expectation versus theentitlement.
So, like this would be, whenfriends expect special treatment
like discounts and shout outsand behind the scenes access
without actually asking for it,because they've been supporting
you, if they feel entitled foryou to like, make it up to them,
(19:21):
even if it's not, that's not,that's not, that's not the jam,
that's not the agreement whichmight actually cause that
support to shift.
So maybe they were ride or dieat first, but now they're
quieter and that silence canfeel really loud and it's very
tempting to take it personally,especially if you're someone who
(19:41):
gives a lot.
We often cheer the way we wantto be cheered for, and you'll
also want to be aware ofsomething that's called
emotional over-resilience,because it's tempting to turn a
supportive friend into anunofficial coach or sounding
board for absolutely everything,especially if they're really
good at it.
So the caution here is thatthat can quietly exhaust them.
(20:04):
They may want to talk to youabout something else at some
point and they're your friend,so they're going to be slow to
tell you.
But if you leave this unchecked, it can skew the friendship
dynamic and that's hard to winback.
Ooh, and one more pothole tolook out for and it's not cute
but it's real.
There can be some unspokenjealousy or comparison,
(20:25):
especially if they're also kindof doing what you do like if
you're a couple of entrepreneurs, of doing what you do like.
If you're a couple ofentrepreneurs, if either one of
you experiences growth or goesviral or, you know, pops your
cherry on your latest goal, itmight change the vibe.
Your wins might triggersomething in them and if it's
unspoken, there might be tension.
(20:46):
There might be something unsaid, there might be a little vibe
that's off, just something toput on the radar.
So this is just what you wantto watch out for and how to keep
it clean.
You want to first check yourexpectations.
Does anyone but you know whatthey are?
Are you expecting them to showup like a team member when
they're just a cheerleader?
(21:06):
Because that's a mismatch.
You're going to want to bemindful of the emotional labor.
Is this friend becoming yourtherapist, your strategist, your
spiritual hype woman all in one?
They might need a littlebreathing room.
Be sure to schedule a work-freebreakfast date or a no business
allowed night out and frame itas self-care and just nurture
(21:28):
the root of your relationship,the friend part.
Give the leader a night off.
And the next key celebrate,don't compete.
Keep the friendship sacred byremoving the scoreboards.
Stop keeping track of the titfor tat.
Not everyone claps loudly andthat doesn't mean that they
don't care.
You made a post and they didn'tlike it.
(21:49):
That has to be okay with you.
Remind yourself all the otherways that they show up for you
and, of course, lead withgratitude.
Right Like a quick thanks forbeing in my corner goes a long
way.
A little handwritten note buythem a Slurpee.
Friends aren't obligated to showup for your business, but when
they do, that can be magic.
(22:09):
So to wrap up, friendshipdoesn't have to be entangled in
your business to be impactful.
When you honor the role yourfriends play, without
overloading or underappreciating them, you get to
experience leadership andconnection without the messy
bits, you know, but I got timefor that.
Because when you're clear,honest and boundaried, you can
(22:31):
create a team culture that'srooted in respect and connection
.
You can build partnerships thatgrow with you, not ones that
quietly resent your success, andyou can create space for
everyone to rise, not just you.
That's powerful leadership.
So be on the lookout.
Look for people who don't justlike you but respect you.
(22:53):
Look for friends who can handlehonest feedback and give it too
.
Pair up with teammates you wantto win with.
So at the end of the day,business is personal, but it
can't be too personal.
Leadership isn't about choosingbetween being kind and being
clear.
It's about being both.
(23:14):
Your higher self already knowswhen something's out of
alignment.
You just have to be braveenough to listen and bold enough
to speak.
So the next time you'reblending friendship with
leadership, just ask yourself isthis serving my mission, my
growth and my integrity?
And if it's a yes, go, build anempire together.
(23:35):
If it's a no, bless and releasewith love, because protecting
your peace is not disloyal.
That's leadership, and remembermy recovering people pleasers.
Leadership gets complicated whenyou're wired to keep the peace,
avoid conflict and make sureeveryone else is okay, often at
(23:55):
your own expense.
Friendship in business can feelsafe, but it can also become a
hiding place, a way to avoidhard conversations, a reason to
tolerate behavior that doesn'talign.
You might find yourselfoverextending, undercharging,
taking on extra emotional laboror bending your boundaries just
(24:16):
to keep the vibe good, but hearthis sacrificing your standards
to protect someone's feelingsisn't kindness, it's
self-abandonment in disguise.
And no mission, no brand, nobusiness can thrive if you're
constantly choosing comfort overclarity.
So when you're leading from thehigher self and not the fear of
(24:37):
being misunderstood, everythingshifts.
You stop managing otherpeople's emotions and start
managing your own energy.
You get to be honest andcompassionate, firm and kind,
boundaried and deeply respected.
Friendship and leadership canabsolutely thrive together, but
(24:59):
only when your people know howto handle the whole you, not
just the agreeable version.
So lead with love, not withguilt.
And remember you weren't madeto be palatable, you were made
to be powerful.
And just like that you've got alittle bit more insight, a
(25:22):
little bit more clarity and yourvery own pocketful of mojo.
You can carry it with youbecause now you're on a path to
a life you love, so that you canlove the life you live.
So here's our tiny but mightychallenge for the week.
My friends Reach out to afriend that helps regulate your
nervous system just by being inyour life.
Let them know that kind ofconnection.
(25:44):
It's more precious than gold.
Nurture it, buy them flowers,buy them chocolates, handwrite a
note, feed it.
So until next time, keepleading with love.
Stay rooted in your truth andremember you don't have to have
it all together to be powerful.
You just need Mojo.
Remember Mojo Reno's.
(26:08):
Our time on this planet isfinite, but the love we can have
and share and experience, babe,that's infinite.
Go spend it wildly.
Check out the show notes formore ways to tap into your mojo.
Thank you for all your reviewsand subscriptions.
So until next time, I couldjust kind of get you to stay
fabulous, stay kind and put lovein everything you do.
Ciao for now.
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