Building a Profitable Podcast Strategy for Businesses – PCI 429 - Podcast Insider

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Ask the question, what are you trying to
do with the show? And I'd say there's
no wrong thing. Just know what it is
that you're trying to do. If you just
don't wanna mess with the world other than
Nevada, guess what you do, Todd?
You do
ready for this? A Nevada real estate show.
You're listening to podcast insider hosted by Mike
Dell, Todd Cochran, and Mackenzie Bennett from the
Blueberry team,

(00:20):
bringing you weekly insights, advice, and insider tips
and tricks to help you start, grow, and
thrive through podcasting,
all with the support of your team here
at Blueberry Podcasting.
Welcome. Let's dive in.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to Podcast Insider special edition.
I am a longtime friend, Paul Culligan. I

(00:41):
can actually say that because we've known each
other for
at least
in person for at least 18 years, haven't
we, Paul? Yeah. It's been a wild ride,
to be honest with you, and you were
saying something before we got started that,
you've been podcasting 20 years, but what was
only 5 of it profitably? Yeah. 5 of
them profitably. 5 of them profitably. A little

(01:02):
bit more than that. But yeah.
But, you know, I mean, that's the industry.
When you handed me that book at Nome
Dex about podcasting that
didn't even make mention of the idea that
Apple might at some point integrate with this.
Yeah. Takes a little while to, you know,
make a few bucks in the process, but
it's been it's been a fun ride. It's
it's been an interesting ride. How about that?

(01:22):
And the reason I wanted to talk to
you today and, you know, what our goal
here is is
I wanna get people that are been in
the weeds
actually doing
Good. And not talking.
Lot of lot of people talk. Well, not
a lot of people do. That's well, it's
podcasters.
That's what we do by default. Yes. I

(01:42):
and, you know, you've been working
almost, I I would say,
exclusively with businesses for probably about as long
as I can remember. How how long has
it been now that you've been working with
businesses?
Well, I've been working with businesses, again, how
much of it profitably, you know, since day
1. I always saw this as a business
opportunity.
And as a matter of fact, my origin

(02:04):
story you you know, you gotta love those
people who say I've been podcasting for 30
years. Yeah.
You know, no. No. You haven't.
But my origin story actually goes back to
2,000
when I met the CEO of Audible,
and he gave me a vision. I still
owe him for that vision. It's fantastic vision.
I want it in. I want it in

(02:25):
bad. I was actually about to release my
first audio product at the time,
and I knew that if I could do
it on Audible, I'd kill. And at the
time, Audible was half a 1000000 to get
in, and they got 70%, and you got
30%. And I don't know about your numbers
over at blueberry, but that wasn't gonna work
with what I was doing. That's right. And
so I walked away kinda defeated.

(02:45):
So when podcasting popped up, I saw it
from day 1
as a chance to be audible.
You know? And you know me, man. Hardcore
nerd. You know, we've got gnome decks. Come
on. Yep. You know? But I always saw
it as I can play
audible,
and, you know, and businesses play audible. And
you can you don't you're not beholden to

(03:06):
nobody, and you don't have to fork out
that half million.
Yeah. It's even better now. It's even better
now. And the funny thing is not only
is it better, but we can click a
button, and we could be on Audible in
5 minutes. That's right. And most people don't
know what Audible even was before
Yep. The company that owns it owns it.
Yeah. Audible, I was I was all excited
because it was like, oh, 87% of all
the m p 3 players did Audible. A

(03:27):
100% of all the m p
A 100% of all the m p 3
is through podcasting. So it got That's right.
It got better, it got cheaper, it got
cooler, it got funner.
And, you know, for those of you that
are just tuning in, again, there's a lot
of history in podcasting, a lot. And we're
not gonna go over that today. That's that
that would take 5 hours. Not in this
hour. No. Not not it'd be impossible. But

(03:48):
the really, the focus is,
you know,
I want those of you who have a
business to understand
really the
true absolute value of having a podcast
as part of their content strategy.
We we saw a lot of people during
COVID add podcasting,
but not a lot of people completely leaned

(04:09):
in. It was kind of like this thing
that they did for a little while. COVID
was over, then they, you know, they kind
of undiversified
from the amount of content they were creating.
And in today's age and with everything that's
going on with search and with AI and
all the stuff that's gonna change the landscape
for businesses globally,
You gotta have podcasts right now. So

(04:30):
I guess we'll start out with the the
the base question. You know, why,
besides what I just said, does a business
need a podcast?
Well,
any real business
solves a problem.
You know? Blueberry,
where do I put my podcast?
You know? Yep. You know, the podcast partnership.

(04:51):
How do I make business sense out of
podcasting? Any real business
solves
a problem,
and people
are attracted to businesses because they solve the
problem. Now the problem could be I'm driving
down the freeway with my screaming kids,
and the business is McDonald's. You you know,
it could be I'm about to buy a
house in Portland. The business is real estate.

(05:11):
It could be whatever,
but any real business solves a problem,
and
we want to integrate with the business. We
go with businesses that we like. We want
the stories of that business. We want the
answers to that business. We want the solution
to that business.
And podcasting is an amazing way to do
it because
unlike well, let's go back to McDonald's. You

(05:33):
know,
one day McDonald said, you know what? We
can serve breakfast at 2 o'clock in the
afternoon, and everybody freaked out. And it's like,
you know, no. You could totally serve breakfast.
It's the same eggs at 10 o'clock in
the morning instead of 2 o'clock in the
afternoon. The customer's right. That's right. And so
podcasting,
instead of, well, I could fit you in
Tuesday at 2 to hear about what we
do.
With podcasting, I can fit you in when

(05:54):
you want,
where you want, on the device that you
want. And as a matter of fact, if
I talk too slow, you can speed me
up to 2 x, 3 x. You know,
it's entirely in your terms.
So as you communicate your problem solving process
to your client base,
if you make it easier for them
on their terms, you're gonna be at a
better place. You just can't be. And I

(06:15):
got some raw numbers for you, really fun
one. Financial planner, who
our big thing is what do you want
the show to do and how we know
the show is doing it. That's it.
He want the the phone to ring. Great.
How we know the show is doing it?
Ready for this? Put a phone number on
the show. It really wasn't that complicated. And
we found that
the people who called as a result of
his normal marketing,

(06:37):
1 out of every 10 bought a service.
People who called as a result of the
show,
1 out of 3 bought a service.
That's a huge difference.
It's a huge difference, but here's the fun
part. We can be
we can pontificate on the power of podcasting
and how the individual storyteller
changed the narrative, blahdy blahdy blahdy blah, or

(07:00):
he's a financial planner.
And before you give your financial planner your
money, you wanna make sure the guy's not
nuts. And you wanna trust him and Yeah.
You gotta trust him. The people who went
out of every 10 knew nothing about the
guy.
The people who knew one out of every
3 had listened
to 8, 12, one had even listened to
20 episodes.
And because they consumed this guy

(07:22):
on their terms, on their device, you know,
they were able to go, yeah. I wanna
sign up with this guy. So the conversion
act numbers actually
it's the same conversion. It's the amount of
time spent, but the time was spent with
the show
as opposed to the time spent with him.
You know, I I remember going back to
before podcasting when I was looking for a

(07:42):
financial planner, and
I I I really didn't have a clue
who'd I knew what I wanted. I wanted
someone that was
a little aggressive
and not too aggressive,
but was conservative enough that he would get
me across the finish line with some money.
Right? That was kinda my and so that
was kinda in my head,
and when I talked to people,

(08:04):
I never told them what my goal was.
I said, well, how do you you know,
how are you gonna do this for me?
And the person that was so aggressive, I
said, I'm not gonna trust him with my
money. Yep. Yep. The person was too conservative.
I'm like, oh my god. He's not gonna
make me any money. And the person, it
was kinda like the, you know, Goldilocks story.
Right? It was the it was the it
was the worst. It was, you you know
and and so in the middle, I kind

(08:24):
of found
the person, and they they've done me well,
but
that took a long time.
Yeah.
And imagine if you could have done that,
2 weeks worth of your driving to and
from work. Right.
Instead of spending an hour on the phone
with somebody that was a more salesman
than they were Yeah. Tell me what their

(08:46):
how they were gonna get me there. Yeah.
And mister overaggressive,
you probably would have figured that out about
the first five minutes of the show. So
you hit stop, and you play the next
show. You know, you don't have to to
wheel your way out of the meeting or
come up with a fake emergency or that
kind of thing. Yes. So it's just so
much easy. So much easier. You said something
earlier that really hit home across all podcast

(09:08):
was,
I talked to so many content creators today.
They don't have a goal. So what is
the gosh. What is the goal of your
show?
And Todd, our entire business is 4 questions.
It's just 4 questions, Todd.
And it's so funny because everybody's like, why
are you giving this away? It's just 4
questions, and nobody's answering them. Number 1, what
do you want the show to do?

(09:30):
Yep. Number 2,
how will you know that the show's doing
it?
Number 3, this is crazy, Todd,
is the show doing it?
And then number 4,
how do we do it better? So let's
go back to that financial planner. Yeah. What
do you want the show to do? Make
the phone ring. Great. That's the goal. Number
2, how we know if the show's doing

(09:52):
it? I asked him. I said, now are
your sales guys, are they the type of
guys who are going right for the sale
and they're not gonna find out why they
called? Or or do you have, like, this
methodical process that some of the salespeople have?
Oh, no. No method. These guys go right
for the sale. I go, well, you can
have a problem because you don't know who's
calling from what.
Todd,
I bought him a $30 cell phone on
our corporate account. I sent him the cell

(10:13):
phone. Yeah. Number on the show is the
cell phone. Yeah.
I said, give us your best sales guy.
Yeah. And I'll tell you the best sales
guy, if the landline's ringing and the cell
phone's ringing, he picks up the cell phone
because that closes. Right. So now here's the
great and by the way by the way,
Todd and and I love these numbers. Like,
I could not ask for these numbers. But
enough,

(10:33):
a client's worth 3 grand,
they convert out of 1 out of every
3. You know what this means, Todd? Every
time the phone rings,
it's worth $1,000.
That's right.
So what do you want the show to
do to make the phone ring? Mhmm. How
many of the show's doing it? We're tracking
it. Number 3, is it doing it? Yeah.
How do we do better? At that point
now, boy, you talk about I can't afford
to advertise my podcast. If I can afford

(10:55):
to advertise that show
in such a way that it costs me
less than $1,000 to make the phone ring,
I can afford to advertise that show. If
it takes me $1500 to make that phone
ring, I cannot afford to advertise that show.
Guess what? At $1,000 to make the phone
ring, I can pay to advertise that show.
Now it's very niche. It's very specific. Most
episodes, he gets less than a 1,000 downloads.

(11:16):
But his CPM, Todd, is 87,600
and something. Like, it's just insane,
you know, because of those four questions. What
do you want it to do? How do
we know that's doing it? Is it doing
it? How do we do it better? The
show on itself is the best SEM
money can buy, but at the same time
Yeah. Then you target SEM against that content,
and it's it's a force multiplier. It's it's

(11:37):
beautiful.
Yeah. Well and and and there's SEM on
2 levels. A, you get all the keywords.
You get all the content, that kind of
stuff. But, you know, I mean, when you
were looking for your money guy, one of
the things you were like, is he here
for the long term? Mhmm. Well, when you
look up for a money guy
and you see that he has 250 episodes,
question answered. You know, you know, you might

(11:57):
not even have to listen to a sing.
This guy's got 250. He knows what he's
talking about. I'm gonna go visit his office.
So there's SEM by default. There's also just
in the context. Yeah? Yeah. And, you know,
business now,
whether we like it or not, I always
get kinda a giggle. People ask me, well,
where where's your market? I'm like, well,
80% United States, break it out Canada, UK,

(12:18):
and then the rest of the world.
And they kinda look at me kinda funny.
I said, yeah. I'm a I'm a global
business.
Not all
folks that are having a business today are
global nor do they want to be, nor
can they do business globally.
But if they're just looking to drive revenue
and ROI,
do you

(12:39):
think the and this is probably a harder
question to ask. So you've got the financial
adviser. He can he can talk to you
from anywhere.
But what about the person that is the
the real estate agent that's only licensed in
Nevada?
And they're they they're gonna have to be
able to
sell homes in Nevada, and they were gonna

(13:00):
target people that wanna buy a home in
Nevada. That's not gonna help them if someone
wants to buy a home in
in New York.
So
where then does that fall in? Is there
referral opportunities? How how does that work when
someone is not licensed to do
business in

(13:20):
the area you're looking for
that contact. I guess that's I don't know
if that's the best way to say it
or not. No. No. No. No. It's great.
It's great, and and it's a great question.
And here's the funny thing is
with the way you just phrased it, Todd,
you now ask the questions before.
See, I used to get phone calls where
they'd ask me what kind of microphone should
I buy Yeah. You know, or that type

(13:41):
of thing. Now I get phone calls what
I'm trying to do. So
ask the question, what are you trying to
do with the show? And I'd say there's
no wrong thing. Just know what it is
that you're trying to do. If you just
don't wanna mess with the world other than
Nevada, guess what you do, Todd?
You do
ready for this? A Nevada real estate show
Right. Because it automatically
filters. The guys are looking to buy a
home in Dallas are not going to listen

(14:03):
to the Nevada real estate. Right. Right. So
if you wanna be just Nevada real estate,
you do the Nevada real estate show or
maybe even the Vegas. Mhmm. The state show.
I see. They're super focused. Yeah. Yeah. Let
Now
if you're like, I wanna be the top,
you're gonna laugh, but I wanna be the
Joe Rogan of real estate.
You you know, well, then how are you
gonna know if you're the Joe Rogan of
real estate? Forget those stats. And, you know,

(14:25):
I I mean, maybe your thing is everybody
in Nevada, I'm gonna sell. Everybody else, I'm
gonna sell leads. Great. What's the infrastructure for
that? Do you have that in play? What
are you trying to do? You'd you know,
I would say I'll tell you this. I
don't wanna listen to a real estate show.
I wanna listen to the Tigard Oregon Real
Estate Show.
You know? And so I would build the
show that way. But but what is it
is it that you're trying to do? Now

(14:46):
another financial planner,
really interesting guy.
Big radio background,
TV background. He did that type of thing
where back in the old days, he would
buy, you know, the hour on Saturday afternoons
on the local UHF station. So the guy
had all the training, all the everything was
great. And so we did a bunch of
shows. What do you want the show to
do? You know, bring in new leads. Now

(15:07):
he was the type of financial planner, and
he he had the type of, business, or
he was the type of guy who likes
to, bring the gift to the kid's graduation
that he goes to because he loves that
person so much. So he had no desire
to get clients
anywhere other than,
you know, a 30 mile external radius.

(15:27):
So the show got great accolades. The show
got great views. The show got great downloads.
The topics he covered people were into. It
got everything, but at the end of the
year,
they went to all the new customers,
and they said, hey. We just wanna make
sure we're doing everything right. How did you
come to us? And despite the thousands and
thousands of downloads,

(15:49):
nobody came as a result of the podcast.
Oh.
You know? Because people were outside, you know,
he was doing great to people in Portland.
He was doing great to people in Texas,
but just not people in Right. You know?
And I appreciate this. As fun as the
show was to kill, I said, either we'd
spend what we're doing with the show or
we killed the show, and we killed the
show
because it wasn't doing what we wanted to
show. Right. Right. Or you have to rebrand,

(16:11):
relook at the content.
Again, but it and I think those narrow
I think if you're a business
or let's say you're a car dealer in
my town, k, and you're trying to drive
people to walk into the car dealer, I
think you just better go to FM 100
and buy radio spots. I agree. I agree.
You know, or buy something on Facebook. I
don't think unless you're in a big enough

(16:33):
metro.
Now if you're in Columbus,
if you're in Dallas, you're in LA, you're
in a big enough metro area where you
can get the volume of people to listen,
then then it probably makes sense. If you're
a plastic surgeon in Miami
and you're world renowned,
the of course, the world is your onion.
Right?
So
I think some of the

(16:55):
businesses
are is the goal usually purely
ROI on
being able to deliver new customers, or is
there another
ROI model that you're seeing that Great. Great
question, Todd. I love this. So, you know,
what do you want the show to do?
Establish me as the preeminent authority on the

(17:16):
topic of x is usually something that people
say. Yep. Great.
How would you know that the show is
establishing you? This is the question number 2.
How would that the show is establishing you
as the preeminent expert on x?
And there was, well, I get good reviews.
You know? You had 25,000 downloads. 3 people
gave you a review. You know? What about
the other 24,000? Right. You know? Oh, downloads.

(17:38):
If a 1000000 people download your show and
they hang up 5 minutes in,
you know, you're not the preeminent expert. Right.
Now hardcore history, Dan Carlin,
3 and a half hour episodes, multiple parts.
They listen all the way to the end.
Dan is one of the preeminent history guys
on the world as a result of that
shout. So if you wanna establish yourself as

(17:59):
the expert,
then how long do they listen?
Do they sign up for the newsletters? Do
they buy the books? You know, do they
buy more? Is this you know? Do you
get invited to events to speak? Do you
are you
those are the metrics you wanna look at.
Yeah. And and then you write them down.
I wanna be invited to,
you know, 10 events. And by the way,

(18:21):
a lot of people don't know that this
is even an option.
Sometimes despite
the UNIs in the industry that seem, you
know, almost scary to approach,
Some people think podcasters are unapproachable. Mhmm. You
you need to make it in the process.
Like, tell a story about how you spoke
at an event. Yeah.
You know, talk about how you love to
get in front of groups,

(18:41):
how you do consulting contracts, how you have
coaching clients.
You make that part of the topic and
say, oh, he has coaching clients just like
me. You know, the the original goal of
my show was to get a press pass
to CES.
And did it work? It worked. Did it
work? It did. I used the content to
be able to get the invite, but then
the goal become make money. So the goal
can change over time. Absolute.

(19:02):
Oh, that those four questions, you can change
them every week. Right. I just don't want
you recording this week's show to last week's
answers. You know? And, but yeah. So so
I wanna become the expert. You know,
you know, the old great radio guys, you
know,
what they wanted out of it was to
write off their wine habit.
You know? And they did it. They wrote
off their wine habit. You know? And so

(19:25):
whatever
you know, the goal could be minimal, but
just just be honest with the goal. You
know, a lot of people are like
you know, they say their goal is, I
wanna just pursue my passion. We're really their
goal is, I wanna quit my day job
and become the next Joe Rogan.
You know? And the problem is pursuing your
day passion. That's easy, but you're not gonna
become the next Joe Rogan That's right. Doing
that. Yeah. You you know? And so, yes,

(19:47):
the thing is, you you know, you could
just you know, I wanna
I wanna force myself to get up every
Saturday morning and do the research it takes
to get this topic out the door so
that in 1 year, I'm an expert. That's
a great reason. You know, the You know,
how I know that I'm doing it? Did
I get up every morning and do my
research? That's that's a big statement there because
people often wanna take it take the easy

(20:09):
way. And I understand there's lots of tools
now to help us with research, and thank
goodness we have those. It makes it easier.
The web, you know, perplexity, all these different
tools we can use now for research.
The
but that doesn't make you
an expert. So are you seeing most of
these business shows
doing interviews with other people? Are they solo

(20:30):
shows? How is the mix on that?
Well, Tom, great question. First of all, a
lot of people, you know, part of what
they wanna do
consciously or subconsciously
is they wanna work as as little as
it's humanly possible. They don't wanna do the
research. They don't wanna do the perplexity thing,
so they get guests.
Yep. And then there's this magic that the
guest is gonna, like, tell you about their

(20:50):
audience, or you could tell their audience about
your interview. You know? And then all of
a sudden, you're gonna get with a 1000000
people. So, a, you didn't have to work
for your episode. And then, b, that person
introduced you to a 100000 new downloads. No.
Doesn't look that way. Yeah. Exactly. Neither's true.
Now you can become an expert
by asking questions of other experts. Mhmm. If

(21:12):
that's your model, I wanna interview the 52
smartest people I can convince to come on
my show. Yep. That's a great strategy. Yep.
It's a great strategy, but you gotta be
clear to what it is. You know? And
and now,
I had a client in the health and
fitness space.
A top

(21:32):
but a big one, New York Times bestseller,
multiple books, been on Oprah, the whole nightmares.
And she calls me, and she says, Paul,
the podcast is killing me. What do I
do? Oh, actually, I can talk about this
because, JJ Virgin, you can put this in
the show notes. I got a medium article
about this, JJ Virgin.
She said, the show's killing me. I hate

(21:53):
the interviews because they were celebrity docs. You
know, they had all these requirements. You know,
they wanted to review everything. They wanted the
air touch pictures. They wanted all this stuff.
It was in your life. Here's the funny
thing, Todd. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I think
she'd agree.
When
she did those shows,
the interviews,
consumption was 40%,

(22:14):
which is the average consumption for an interview
show.
So when she did these shows,
and for those of you who are listening
to the audio version of this, we're we're
pointing a finger gun to our necks. Yes.
When you do when she did the interview
shows, the one she hated,
people hung up before they were halfway through
it. Yeah. They came for her, not the

(22:34):
guest.
She started creating new content that was just
her. When it was just her creating content,
people would stay through to the end. Yeah.
So the show that she
hated doing
because she thought that's what the industry expected
of her, saw terrible results, took a lot
of work, and gave her a headache.
The show that was off the top of
her head, and and you and Rob do

(22:56):
this brilliantly,
we started the show called ask the health
expert. People have health questions. You talked about
SCM.
People would say they you know, JJ, is
it true that a glass of orange juice
has the same amount of sugar as a
Coca Cola? Like, that would be an episode.
She would do it live,
on a live stream because some people love
the live stream.

(23:16):
So she'd answer 30 questions on a live
stream, and then the editor would shot those
up as 7 minute episodes that came out
5 days a week. See, that's I was
gonna ask you about the repurposing. So right
there, you've A 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
so she did what she loved.
She got the social. Man, social podcasters. One
thing for podcasters
They're horrible at it. One of those beautiful
things about podcasting is you don't have to

(23:37):
social what you had for lunch. Yeah. You
can actually social what your new episode is.
That's right.
So I'm going live for those of you
who like live.
I'm gonna record the episodes for those of
you who can't. I had, boy, in college.
I'm gonna date myself here, but
I, as dumb luck, I had a friend
who used to write for Johnny Carson.

(23:57):
So I went to school. UC Santa Barbara
about an hour and a half from Burbank.
So I could take dates to go see
Carson get taped. I didn't even have to
stand in the line. You know? Beautiful.
Yeah. Come on. Go. Let's go see Johnny.
Sure. Which which which kids ask your parents.
Yeah. And
but what's beautiful was the the show to
see Johnny get taped

(24:19):
was very different than when it went on
the air. Mhmm. You know? And and so
you can
cross purpose. You can cross promote. You you
know, you can do all these things, but
you can also realize they are they are
different things.
And so the live show was one thing.
You know you know you know, I never
had a date that said, why would I
go to a live taping?
I can watch it on TV tonight.

(24:40):
You know, it's just 2 different things. Now
a lot more people watched it on TV
than went to the live taping, obviously. But
now here's the other thing. When Carson was
in front of an audience,
energy.
That's right. The average podcaster, I'm gonna record
my episode eventually.
Yep. If you tell the world you're recording
it live
Tuesday at 5 You gotta be there. Show
up Tuesday at 5. That's right. And even

(25:02):
if nobody else shows up Tuesday at 5,
you go live because at 505, somebody might
pop in. And if you're not 5 minutes
of the episode, you're gonna look like an
idiot to the one person who popped in.
So it instantly turns on you know? Yeah.
It it's just fantastic stuff. So
Live Yes. Live was able and, again, we're
talking about podcasting, but this all kinda ties
in with the way things are right now.

(25:22):
Live got me, number 1, kept me excited
about podcasting
Yeah. As I recorded the tape, still live.
Made me a better podcaster, number 2, because
there's not as many mistakes as you can
make. Number 3, it opened up
opportunities.
I started getting called by BBC and a
variety of different says, hey. We'd love to
have you come on, and BBC Asia needs

(25:43):
a a 3 minute at 2 o'clock in
the morning. We're gonna talk about this. Yep.
I'll be there. Call me. So
it it opened up
more doors.
The audience was
very tiny,
very tiny. Threes and fours and fives and
tens were watching
live.
So, again, it doesn't take a lot

(26:03):
to make the show more interesting. If you
get thirties, forties, fifties, and hundreds, that's even
better.
So on the repurposing then,
what do you feel for an average business
show? How many segments can be repurposed? Is
it
every show is different. They're like, she did
this show on
on orange juice and how much sugar is

(26:23):
in it. I I would imagine there were
probably was, based on additional questions, maybe 8,
9, 10 segments you could cut out and
use that in social promotion?
Yeah. Well, the the design was ask the
health experts. So people would come on. They'd
ask JJ through chat. Yep. And JJ was
smart enough to take take a pause.
You know? And so some people are like,
oh, q and a. You know? I mean,

(26:44):
the AMAs are huge. People love AMAs.
And so it's basically an AMA, but she
was smart enough to give it a little
pause. And by the way, you have a
good editor. You don't even necessarily have to
have you know? We can slice really thinly.
And we knew that we were recording 7
segments.
Mhmm. Now the cool thing was she didn't
say after each that's a good question.
Hey. This is JJ. Welcome to the Ask
the Health Experts show where we answer questions.

(27:04):
Like, we we would chop that and we
would edit that in later,
you know, and that kind of thing. But,
yeah, she knew what was going on. The
audience knew what was going on. And let's
face it. Let's face it. Saturday night live
is really just recording your YouTube videos in
front of a live audience.
You know? The Tonight Show now really is
just recording your YouTube segments in front of
a live audience. What? Like like like, the

(27:24):
world's going there anyway. Yeah. What's beautiful about
this in podcasting
is you all of a sudden have a
multichannel strategy just by doing
the podcast. If you do it live, do
it recorded, whatever. You fill your Instagram
bit. You've been able to if you're still
on x, you can still post on x.
You got your Facebook clips. You've got your

(27:45):
YouTube shorts. You've got the YouTube long. You've
got the podcast delivered on every distribution channel
you can do.
One one and done. And you've got almost
everything filled in your social now people will
say, oh, Todd, you can do that on
YouTube
and get all that.
Maybe.
But you can't do that on Instagram. You're

(28:05):
not a one and done on Instagram. You're
not a one and done
in
x. But Now here's the dirty little so
what everything that you said is true.
Everything you said is true. However,
I'll tell you it's hard to get Heidi
and I to go to the movies anymore
because movie theaters are just a mess and
and, you know, the price and, you know,
my my entertainment center keeps getting better and

(28:26):
better. But Sure. Here's what happens when you
go to the movie.
Hey. We say we really don't need to
get there at 8 because it's gonna be
30 minutes of commercial. That's right. Don't wanna
We end up there at 8 anyway for
some reason. Yep.
Then it becomes time for the trailers. So
trailer 1 rolls,
and Heidi says,
yeah. Not for me.
Trailer 2 rolls, and Heidi goes, I just

(28:49):
saw the whole movie. I don't need to
see that movie. That's right. Now what happens
is a lot of people
take a 2 minute concept,
try to stretch
a 3 hour podcast out of it. Mhmm.
Then they put the 2 minute concept as
a reel,
and then they don't know why it's not
directing people to the podcast. That's right.

(29:11):
Because people have And so it's back to
to
what do you want the long form to
do? Yeah. How we know the long form
is doing it. It is the long form
doing it. Now the long form might be,
hey. I don't know where that minute and
a half of goodness is, so I'm gonna
record for 2 hours, and then I'm gonna
let somebody find the hour the minute and
a half of goodness. Great. Just don't expect

(29:31):
anybody to do the long form. Yeah.
You know? And and it might be a
great way. I'll tell you. Even I think
I think you would it might have I
can't remember if it was you or somebody
else, but, you know, how long does it
take you to write a blog? Forever. How
long does it take to record a 5
minute video? 5 minutes. Yep. You know? And
so and the whole thing is is if
you record a 5 minute video and somebody
only takes a minute out of it, still

(29:51):
time well spent. Yep.
So
if you're gonna do all these things, you
have to have good long form content. That's
the key too. Always.
Right. Well, it is. You'd be surprised. People
just think, well, you know how you get
long form content? By talking for 2 hours.
No.
You have long form content by having long
form content.
Sometimes, you know, when Rob and I go,

(30:14):
you know, we're an hour 15, I'm like,
Rob, we're just talking to ourselves. Let's go.
Let's get out of here. We're wasting people's
time.
And sometimes we go an hour and 45
minutes. It's like, hey. We need to cut
it off so people can get out. Yeah.
And sometimes and this is the beauty of
podcasting.
Boy, it's time about the know, like, and
trust thing. You know, everybody asks how how
long should my podcast episode be? You know?

(30:35):
And it's a good question. I appreciate it.
Yeah. Great thing is is is we can
flip the because it's anytime, any place, anywhere,
any device
any any place, anywhere, I guess, is the
same thing. Yeah. Because it's all these things,
we can say,
how long does this episode need to be?
Yep.
Sometimes you only got 5 minutes. Man, you
wanna get an audience to know, like, and

(30:55):
trust you? Give 5 minutes to your 5
minute topic.
If JJ tried to do
a 2 hour video
on does orange juice have the same amount
of sugar as Coca Cola? Zero views. You
know? Yeah. It's a 5 listens. Right. Exactly.
So, you know, so you can repurpose
if you build

(31:17):
for repurposing. Do you feel this idea that,
like and I don't know if anybody sponsors
anybody's shows, so I wanna be careful with
gaming. But there are there are AIs now
that will take your, long form video
and get segments for you. Well, if the
long form video is crap, the segments are
crap. That's right.
And if the segments are crap, then, you

(31:37):
know, the list is gonna be crap. And
if the list is crap, then the algorithm
is not gonna push you, and you're actually
be doing more damage than you are good.
I I recorded a show the other day.
I shouldn't have recorded. I was half sick.
And I think, oh, man. That's it's it's
just bad. You know, I almost kinda, like,
hug my head like a dog. It's like,
oh, I shouldn't put this out. I did
because I felt guilty. And in hindsight, I

(31:57):
probably shouldn't have put it out. Let me
ask
you a question about
building a brand. I'm I'm a big brand
builder.
Do you do you feel
that businesses
are using podcast to help build their brand?
And if they are,
when? Are they is it new
business, existing, trying to reach new what what
are they what's

(32:18):
where does that fall in? Yeah.
So have you ever read Building a StoryBrand
by Donald Knorr? Oh, no.
Oh, fantastic. Fantastic.
Don used to be a local Portland boy,
so I I knew him before he was
cool and moved to Nashville.
But so he he you know? And here's
the basic premise of the book, and I'll
tell you this. You're like, now you're really
gonna read it. You know how everybody says,

(32:38):
use story in your marketing, use story in
your marketing, use story in your marketing, but
then they never tell you how to use
story in your
marketing. Building a story brand is actually a
7 step process for building a story brand.
Crazy. And you could actually follow those 7
steps.
And so we launched the podcast for the
book
18 months before the book came out.

(32:59):
Now here's what's cool.
So do we build a brand? Definitely. And
this is back you know you know, again,
kids, ask your parents, but there was a
time when there was this thing called Itunes,
and you type in a name, and it
would show you the books, and it would
show you the shows. It would show you
the movies, and it would show you the
apps, and it would show you the podcast.
Well, the cool thing was now we could
put in building a story brand. And if
you wanted to buy the book, the book

(33:19):
was there. If you wanna listen to the
podcast, the podcast was there. But it was
a 7 step process. Step, it's either 2
or 3 of the process or maybe 3
or 4. One of the one of the
steps in their process is you're not the
hero the client is. This is key. So
Don has connections, and one of the connections
he has is this little unknown podcaster named
Dave Ramsey before we talk about repurposing content.
Yeah. So Dave Ramsey is the king. And

(33:42):
for those of you watching at home on
video, that's the book. And he actually Tati,
he actually just released version 2.0, like, a
couple of weeks ago. Oh, awesome. Expanded. It's
the same stuff. It doesn't change. It's just
more. Yeah. Dave Ramsey is king
of making the client the hero. You know,
they come on the show. They do the
financial freedom scream. It's it's part of the
whole shtick that Dave does. So Don
gets

(34:03):
Dave on a show to talk about making
the client the hero,
which Dave is king at, Dave spends an
hour talking about
how brilliant Don was for making that part
frigging look.
So then we go to Apple, and we
say, hey. How would you like to have
an episode with Dave Ramsey where he's not
talking about money? Dog bites man, not a

(34:25):
story. Man bites dog, that's a story. You
know, Dave Ramsey talking to finance is not
a story. Dave Ramsey talking anything other than
finances is a story. Bam. We tell Apple.
Apple puts it on the front page of
Itunes.
Again, kids, ask your parents. That's right.
And so,
yes, the brand was built for the show.
Now the whole reason I told that story
was he has a concept called caveman. Okay?

(34:47):
This is the concept of caveman. Caveman should
look
at your show, caveman should grunt,
and caveman should know what your show is
about. Exactly.
Okay? Now
I have a client, and he gives me
permission to talk about this. Name's Joe Polish.
Joe has a show called I love marketing.

(35:07):
Can't get more caveman than that. That's right.
It's about marketing.
The love means it's playful.
And if you look at the logo
for the artwork, it's it's, it's a play
on the old Iheart New York thing. So
anybody our age, again, kids, ask your parents,
anybody our age knows that this wasn't done
by a 23 year old.
So it's the perfect caveman show. Joe has

(35:27):
a mastermind group called the Genius Network, and
he has a show called the Genius Network
Show.
Nobody knows what a Genius Network is. You
know, guess which show gets 10 times the
downloads of the other show? You know, so
branding is really, really powerful.
And but and branding really, really helps because
the thing is if I search the Internet,
Now, Todd, you could pull up screens right

(35:48):
now. Let let's do something for the video
version of this. Sure. Let's see how many
podcasts there are called Thinking Out Loud. Let's
do one page at a time here. Thinking
out.
Thinking out loud. Everybody says, oh, I'm just
gonna do a podcast where it's me just
thinking out loud. Now one of the things
about thinking out loud is that, of course,
you have no idea what the show is
about, so you didn't answer question number 1.
Therefore, you didn't answer question number 2. So

(36:09):
thinking out loud. Well well well, go to
Apple. Go to Apple. Go to Apple. Okay.
Yeah. You gotta see the pages. This is
so good. And, for those of you listening
at home or on the audio version of
this,
we'll we'll go look at the I do
it right here. Podcast where it has yeah.
Yeah. And then search thing out loud. There
we go.
So good that we can do this on
the web now. Yeah. Okay. So he's typing
in Thinking Out Loud on Apple Podcast now.

(36:31):
Now now type shows.
Now so there's page 1 of shows called
Thinking Out Loud,
and then you can go page after page
after page. There are, like, 18 pages of
shows called Thinking Out Loud Yeah. At Apple
Podcasts.
How do you get that? Not very cable.
That's right. No cable. You know? And so

(36:53):
you can
you
can brand the show if it's branded intelligently.
But if it's branded, you know, as cool
as Todd Cochran is, as cool as Paul
Collegan is, you notice our shows aren't called
the Paul Collegan show. No. And our shows
aren't called the Todd Cochran. No. Because that's
not the branding that we're trying to No.

(37:14):
And so you can brand the show. And
the great thing is I love marketing. It's
a show about marketing, and people would love
it. Who would wanna join that? People who
don't care about marketing. And guess what? His
audience is people who care about marketing. Yep.
We talked earlier about the Nevada
Real Estate Show. You know who doesn't want
that? Oregonians. Great. That's right. He doesn't want
Oregonians listening to it.
You know? Because when your metric is you're
helping people find their home in Nevada, you

(37:34):
don't worry about the downloads. Yep.
You know? And the win is not. You
know? You know? I'll tell you, man. My
little client with his $3,000
conversions, one out of every 3 with less
than a 1,000 downloads per episode,
he's making so much more money than any
other major podcasters are,
and
he's not worried about the numbers or at
least those numbers, the download numbers, if you

(37:54):
will. I know that. Had a client you'll
love this. A guy calls
me.
He says, so my show is getting about
a 1000000 downloads per episode. Uh-huh. I mean,
no. It isn't.
No. It isn't.
And he he said, yes. It is. Let
me show you the stats. We both we
we had to both had the same reaction.
Yeah. Yeah. We log on to the no.
It isn't.
We log on to the stats, and he's

(38:15):
got a 1000000 downloads.
Well,
999,500
some odd downloads
are coming from Bangladesh.
Oh, wow. Great market. And
I said, dude, they're all coming from Bangladesh.
He goes, yeah. Totally. Yeah. I'm like, what
do you mean? He goes, well, we're working
with this conservative radio network

(38:36):
who is worried about being censored, so they've
moved everything offshore. Uh-huh.
Like, yeah. That's not the way podcast stats
work.
You know? And his thing is well, that's
not what my podcast guy says. Right? Just
go with your podcast guy. Sure. God, just
go.
You know? And, but but yeah. So so
you can brand. And the thing is nobody

(38:57):
wants to listen to I mean,
you know, Joe Rogan is an anomaly.
Yeah. You
know? And, you know, even, you know, some
of the other anomalies out there I don't
even wanna give names because we'll date this.
I think so far everything we've talked about
is is is pretty pretty timeless.
But, you know, there are anomalies out there
that
but you're not gonna win on the anomaly.

(39:18):
But if you win on what you're about,
you know and that's part of the branding.
So brand, but brand caveman.
You know, our mutual friend, you know, Daniel
Lewis. Daniel Lewis had this thing called the
Ramen Noodle. Yeah. It was a clean comedy
podcast. The Ramen Noodle was an homage to
the days when all he could afford was
ramen. That's right.
You know you know who looks up shows

(39:38):
called the ramen noodle? Japanese food enthusiasts. That's
right. You don't have any Japanese food enthusiasts
to get a clean comedy show, they hang
up.
Yeah. You know, he just added the ramen
noodle semicolon,
a clean comedy podcast. Personally, I told me,
just go to clean comedy podcast.
You know, it's,
we had
a top guy in the world that was,

(40:01):
I'm pulling a a blank here, but he
was a surgeon, a neurologist.
K. And he was top. He was, like,
probably top 50, and he had a little
neurologist podcast.
Thousand neurologists listened to that show.
And,
man, the offers just came like crazy.
So it also goes into having

(40:23):
if you if you are the niche,
this is this is a huge
opportunity if you are actually the the business
niche, if you're the expert, if you are
if you are that man or woman,
the opportunity to actually truly monetize,
then, is probably far and exceeds maybe what
your business is making. Now his business was

(40:45):
very successful. I had a
bunch of doctors,
and but he was getting $20,000
an episode. And his partner said,
you have to stop doing the podcast because
we don't have enough write offs for the
money that you're making on the show. So
he walked away he walked away from $80,000
a month,

(41:05):
because it was causing a problem tax wise
for his business. Now isn't that a nice
problem to have? I think I'd have figured
out how to pay, the Yeah. Yeah. Find
a guy.
I'd I'd figured out how to get some
taxi dutch and then and paid uncle Sugar
his due.
But I think
businesses also have to understand that if if
you are the leader,
if you are the king of the hill,

(41:28):
you you best have a podcast. And then
it doesn't have to be about selling.
Right? It has to be about
educating and make them wanting to work with
you because none of us wanna sit through,
infomercial.
Of the problem they solve. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
You know,
if you did a show
that was expertly produced, that was filled with

(41:49):
the top experts, that was amazing people
about how to educate your homeschooled child
so they make it to Harvard,
you wouldn't sell a lot of blueberry as
a result.
Right. Like,
you know
and I ask people, what do you want
the show to do? Well, I want I
want people to come to my business. Well,
how are they gonna come to your business?

(42:09):
Well, you know, they're gonna hear about me.
Walk where are they gonna hear about you
on my show? Well, are you gonna talk
about it? No.
We gotta connect the That's right. It has
to be a connected audience. Yeah. Yeah. You
have to you you know, what are you
trying to do this for? Yeah.
And then and then I'd say, you know,
and it's funny that success you said with
that neurosurgeon, Todd, a lot a lot of
people like it.
You know? And and the thing is, you
know, your podcast is doing really, really well.

(42:30):
Maybe figure out how
to capitalize on that as opposed to shutting
it down out of panic. Yeah. And, you
know, and it believe me, it it hurt
me a lot because I got 30% of
that 20 k. You know? So
Ouch.
One show. You know? You know? Those are,
you know, those again are those
unicorns.
In his own right, he was the Joe
Rogan of his niche. You know? Again, what

(42:54):
do you, you know, what do you tell
folks then on production? Alright. Because, you know,
this has got to be the hardest part
of the discussion
is
alright. We have a goal. We're gonna shape
the content to meet the goal. What is
your production best practice
advice to a business?
Well, it's all based on how would the
production
help you with the goal of the show.

(43:16):
Yeah. You know? So let's go back to
that real estate example. Your real estate
agent
drives a beamer
because they wanna show you Mhmm. How successful
they are because they're gonna be successful in
selling your show. It's a prop. They might
be rented. Yeah.
Yeah. Rented totally, but they still you know,
rent your studio. I mean, not rented, but
least. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know? But

(43:37):
the thing is, you you know you know,
it's so
you gotta have a show that reflects what
it is that you're trying to tell people.
Yep.
You know? You you you you know?
If if Blueberry doesn't have a bunch of
gear in the background and they're positioning themselves
as one of the top in the space,
are they? You know, you
know, if it's it's a phone that he's

(43:57):
holding and just shaking up and down because
he's telling people how important tripods are,
You know, that's not gonna work. Exactly. And
so you gotta have a show that matches
what it is that you're doing. Yeah. And
then it's it's back to that whole thing.
And and and, again, that's why I ask
you know, the question they ask, of course,
after what kind of microphone they should buy
is what kind of camera should you buy?
You know, what do you want the show

(44:18):
to do?
You know, just ask yourself, what's gonna be
required for the show to do that?
Now one of the top business shows,
in in in the more marketing entrepreneur world,
the guy like, hey. To be successful,
you you kinda gotta show this in the
video, and you gotta show it and that

(44:38):
kind of stuff. And, he agreed, and so
you know what he did? He killed the
video podcast version. It's just the audio version.
And and the paradigm for the show, the
model for the show was,
I'm gonna hit the record button on my
phone,
and I'm gonna record the podcast on the
way to work.
And so you went for the car with
this guru.
And, you know, and the great thing because
there were no pictures, it could have been

(44:58):
a Tesla. It could have been a, you
know, a beat up 52 4. You you
know, it could have been anything.
And, yeah, you just gotta match
what it is that you're trying to do
with with the presentation that you're trying to
do. Now,
Joe Polish, I love marketing.
Joe has an episode
with
Joe, I swear, was on an analog phone

(45:19):
line in the tunnel under New York.
I swear that was his microphone. Yeah. Yeah.
His assistant was using Wi Fi back when
Wi Fi wasn't as serious as solid as
it is today. But Still is it? They
had on the show
Tony Robbins,
who was bragging
about how far Tony was

(45:41):
from his house in Fiji on the beach
recording this thing via Skype. The audio is
painful.
It's painful. No matter how much we try
to clean it up, no matter how much
we try to, it is painful.
But
the storytelling
of Joe with a bad connection and, you

(46:01):
you know Yeah. Yeah. The Wi Fi and
then Tony on the beach and try what
did Tony say? But here's the thing. Now
Tony there Tony's not without podcast content. But
here's the thing. Tony's always on book.
They got Tony
off book. They got Tony to tell the
truth. They got Tony to tell it like
it is.
Very few recordings out there of Tony off
book.

(46:22):
As a result, that whole painful, terribly produced
podcast
is one of their most popular episodes
because it's a thing they couldn't get elsewhere,
and Tony talks about really why he loves
marketing.
You know? And so, I love revisionist history.
And there's this moment in revisionist history where
he he has a clip from George Will,
and the audio is crap. The audio is
just crap, and that guy has a huge

(46:42):
budget. He's doing amazingly well. And then after
the quote from George Will, he goes,
if you wonder why George Will sounded like
he was recorded on an Olympus $30 recorder
that I bought at Thrifty
off of my really cheap cell phone,
you know, on speaker mode, it's because
it was recorded on Olympus device from my
speakerphone because when George Will calls,

(47:03):
you don't tell him to call back when
you get the audio right. Right. And so
it went from bad audio
to the storytelling.
Now you have this vision of Malcolm Gladwell
by the side of the road holding his
Olympus quarter while he's talking to George. Well,
it becomes fun. Yeah. So the production has
to match the story that you're telling. If
it does that, you're fine. You know, we're
getting ready to do some new series, and

(47:25):
I've got one of my team members. We're
building up his motif in his studio, and
I've been like, we gotta change the wall.
Gotta get you some lights, and we gotta
make sure the camera's good.
20 years ago, all we cared about was
the audio. But now
Yeah. You know, the video better be clear.
The audio better be clear. People will forgive
you for

(47:46):
on most times. They'll forgive you if your
video is a little bad, but if the
audio is bad,
they'll they'll punch out unless you say there's
something so compelling.
Why the audio is bad? Yeah. Yeah. And
what and why happened in, you know, the
backstory then it becomes cute and it's part
of the story. So
I I I agree with you.
Let me give my favorite video camera hack.
Most of the planet is iPhone. Yeah. You

(48:08):
might not be. You you still Android? I
have both.
Yeah. Okay. There we go. Smart. Smart. Actually,
I'm both too. Just the one I carry
in my pocket. IPhone. The iPhone now has
a thing called
continuity camera,
where if your phone is on the same
network and is the same login as your
Mac is Oh, it can be in the
your iPhone. Becomes
the camera. Yep.

(48:28):
And it's fantastic.
And you can link to this in show
notes. I did a just to test this,
like, 3 years ago. I just wanted to
see how good it was. So I literally
ran the screen recorder while I was testing
it. Mhmm. Like, holy crap. This is amazing.
The video is called, like, just how good
is continuity camera or something like that. And
it's what I use now. So this camera
here is an SC 2 from, like, what,
5 or 6 years ago. And, you know,

(48:49):
I was on the phone with a potential
client sales call, and he goes, one day,
we can afford you, you know, which I
kinda like because it it keeps my rates
high. But he goes, in one day, we
can afford cameras like the one you're using
right now.
Like, dude, this is a $200
Yeah. IPhone SE that you probably have in
your drawer.
So, yes, deck it out, make it nice,

(49:11):
but, man, leverage the tech that you got
right now. Let me clean it. Yes. Yes,
Todd. The bad audio thing, you know, I
did this just hit me. And we've been
saying this for years, but here's the thing
that's even worse than bad audio.
We could fix bad audio now with a
couple of clicks with AI.
So if I'm telling you I'm so important
that I can't spend 30 seconds clicking a
button to clean up my audio for you,

(49:32):
you know, I'm not that important. That's right.
You know, it's just like this studio motif.
Most people that maybe are watching this first
time don't know that about,
May of this year, I was not on
any fault of my own. I lost my
lease in my studio.
So I had to relocate everything to my
home,
and people say, oh my god. You gotta
you you had to build a studio in

(49:53):
your home. Well, this is just a 10
by 10 area
and just enough room to keep the camera
from seeing what is out on the sides,
and it it works great.
It's it's lit with non expensive,
lights.
You know, there's a little bit of tech
here that's a little expensive, but

(50:13):
you don't need to have
this expensive tech anymore. You look at some
of the stuff that's out there. It's it's
pretty amazing. Paul, we've covered a lot of
ground here. Is there anything that I've missed
that's pertinent for a business to consider
in doing a podcast?
Well, I'll tell you.
These four questions
are
I don't care who you go with.

(50:35):
Todd, you know, you know, one of the
things I love about you, Todd, is is
just just, you know, sometimes it's your fault.
You care more about the industry of podcasts
than you even necessarily do, Blueberry.
Oh, I care about the industry a lot.
Yeah. You do.
And
ask yourself the 4 questions.
And, obviously, question number 3 and question number
4, you can't ask until a couple of
episodes have gotten out the door. Mhmm. But

(50:57):
question, what do you wanna do with the
show and how we know the show is
doing it?
If you can't
find
help
through consulting
or through how to books or videos or
whatever
that can answer these questions, you know, run
away now. Yeah. When we started you know,
I mean, Todd literally handed me a book.

(51:18):
It was this thick
on how to
put a podcast on my iPad.
Things have gotten a little bit easier. You
know? And, Paul, I was asked to to
write that about
6 weeks after pulling a microphone up to
my face for the first time. Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly. Exactly. You know? And and it was
a common book. It's still there. It's all
it's all. Yeah. But but but, you know

(51:39):
you know, to put this in perspective, people,
I have a book
I had some You've got one too. Called
I have a book called the beginner well,
no. I'm not sure. Yeah. But there's my
book. Yeah.
I have a book called the beginner's guide
to the Internet. Right? It's like it's like
4 inches thick.
Here's the funny thing, Todd. There's 3 whole
pages about this new coming thing called the

(51:59):
web.
This is a book back in the Archie
days, so now you can't ask your grandparents
on that one. Yeah.
Archie and Gopher and that kind of thing.
So Newsnet news and It's
a it's a historical moment, my friend. But
Yeah. It just it's gotten easier. It's gotten
easier. Back then, we could barely
we could barely figure out how to tell
people what a podcast was. Paul's being shy.

(52:20):
Paul has a few books under his own
name in podcasting. Books under my own. Yeah.
Yeah. I did one. You did multiple.
If you want those 4 questions, there there
there's a book called never go shopping when
you're hungry. Oh, that's true. Those 4 questions.
Yeah. And
but the thing is, if if you can't
answer those 2 questions,
stop.

(52:41):
It's not about the microphone.
It's not about the set. You know, all
these things are subbed. You you Right. Right.
Right. Right. What kind of microphone you need.
And it's it's for oh, Tom, my my
my wife,
she's actually getting her counseling. She's getting her
counseling masters, and they're in the they're in
the process now where they're where they're working
with students and stuff.

(53:01):
This is this is Joe for podcasters. Guess
what? You know, a lot of the people
who record these sessions bought Blue Yetis. You
know? They don't know how to use them.
So even in the psychology arena, the the
the microphone is hurting us. Yes. I have
a prop somewhere back there. Never used it.
A prop. Exactly. A prop.
Not a tool. It's a prop. No. It's
a prop. And
those questions

(53:21):
go
first. And what's neat
is
if you don't have the answers to those
questions,
it's one of 2 things.
A, podcasting is not for you, and there
are some people who podcasting is not for.
I haven't met him yet, but I'm sure
there's somebody out there.
Or, b, ask the questions again.
You know? I had a client, Todd. Oh

(53:43):
my goodness.
We went through the whole process,
and we have a whole process.
And he goes, this sounds great, Paul. I'm
gonna totally go with you. But first
Mhmm. He bought I kid you not. He's
he bought a punch card.
I bought a punch card of 200 episodes
that I have to use first.
So some event somewhere, he was able to

(54:04):
buy a punch card where he got 200
episodes for, I'm sure, really cheap price because,
you know, he's not gonna record more than
3. Right.
You you know what? At at that kind
of rate. But, like like, you're not like,
dude, you're not gonna come back. Mhmm. You
know, you're gonna get burned out so fast.
The reason that we always talk about pod
fading, we would talk about how you you
know, podcasts don't last because they don't know
what they're doing. And they don't plan. They

(54:25):
don't have a They don't they don't know
what they're doing. They don't plan. They don't
know why they're doing it. Yep. You know,
all the all the anchor podcasts, you know,
the 1 point whatever 1000000 anchor podcast I
think it's about 3,000,000. One was Yeah. Test
clicking on the microphone.
Does this work? Does this work?
You know, come back because, you know, I
kinda like the fact that that you charge
because, you know, the only people nobody's gonna
go on just kicking the tires. They're they're

(54:46):
actually gonna be, you know, happy about this.
Mhmm. But, yeah, answer those questions first.
You know? And it doesn't have to be
me who fixes it. It doesn't have to
be, you know, it doesn't have to be
Blueberry where you host it. It doesn't have
to be any of these things, but just
answer those questions because when you're done,
you could be at a good place. And
let me give you one one final.
Had a client,

(55:06):
really interesting situation. He was dealing with it
was also financial management, but it was financial
management
in the last days. Oh. And his average
client was literally over the age of 70.
And the question was, how much do the
70 year olds listen to the podcasting on
their iPhones? You know? And this was a
while ago.

(55:27):
And
I said, that's a good question.
It's a legitimate question.
But we asked the show, what do you
wanna what do you wanna do with the
show? I wanna educate my audience on what's
possible. Great.
How do the show is doing it? Will
they get educated and they come back to
me? Great.
So I said, what about this?
What if we took these episodes,

(55:47):
and what if we burned them on a
CD? Because whoever came to your office, they
came in a car that had a CD
player. That's right.
And you gave them a copy of the
CD and the content you've already produced.
You know, and ask them if they got
a podcast. Great. If not, here's a CD
that's got all the answers to it. So,
yeah, they didn't become a big podcast, but
they produced
3 CDs back to the repurposing question. They

(56:08):
produced 3 CDs worth of content that they
could send everybody home with. Right. And if
you get past that podcast I remember I
was in a hotel room
trying to make sense of Stitcher. The fact
that Stitcher died, anybody in the industry is
not surprised.
But I was trying to make sense of
Stitcher, and I was listening to somebody talking
about Stitcher on Stitcher.

(56:28):
And the podcaster said, if you're listening to
my show on Stitcher, I don't want you
to be listening to my show, which was
weird because I was listening on Stitcher, and
you don't have to put it on Stitcher.
So there's a whole bunch of questions there.
But
it's your content that's important. Podcasting is just
a really easy way to deliver it. It.
It is.
You know? So what do you want the

(56:49):
show to do?
How will you know that the show is
doing it? Now once you've been doing it
for a little while, is the show doing
it? And then how do you do it
better? And by the way, you know, if
it's ads, you know, it, you know, if
I wanna catch enough people in this industry
that I can sell ads, great.
You guys like Blueberry that'll set you up.
You know? You're at a good place.

(57:10):
I'll tell you,
it is easier
to make money selling your own stuff than
it is to sell other people's stuff. That's
right. What about Joe Rogan?
Joe Rogan. So I got here here's a
fun Joe Rogan fact. You might not know
this one. There's a company that paid us
some consulting money to, investigate a possibility of
having an alternative podcasting event
because you and I both you know, the

(57:30):
events are there, but they're not necessarily what
they could be. And so there's this expiration
of the event. One of the things was,
you know, what would it take to get
the keynote that would bring everybody over? Well,
the keynote that would bring everybody over would
be Joe Rogan.
So yeah. Exactly. So some time well, here's
the thing, Todd. He won't do a keynote
about podcasting.
Makes sense. You know why? You know why?
Because he doesn't consent. He can go to

(57:51):
that same town, he can go to whatever
venue he wants. He could sell out the
whole room, and he can keep 90% of
the tickets,
you know, which makes a lot more money
than any keynote on podcast. That's right. Does.
I think if we go back to the
beginning,
if you're a business
today,
number 1,
obviously,
Paul's got a great company at podcast partnership.

(58:12):
We'll let Paul share his information here in
a minute. But
whoever you hire,
be very, very
careful and vet them
thoroughly
because, sadly, what ends up happening
at least
5 out of 10 times, I'm coming in
and rescuing your show because

(58:32):
some so called consultant
hadn't a clue
about anything. And while you created great content
so be careful
of who you hire and, you know, talk
to Paul.
You know, I trust Paul. I've known Paul
for many, many years. There's others out there,
but I think those of you that have

(58:53):
been with us today can understand Paul's mentality
and where he goes. I I think it'd
be great for any businesses to look into
truly grow a podcast and reach the goal
they wanna reach. How can they reach you,
Paul?
Podcast partnership.com.
All the stuff's there.
You know, the idea and and part of
it is partnership. We don't sell punch cards.

(59:14):
You know, you're not gonna drop files into
a Dropbox folder. We're gonna make a podcast
out the other side. That's not how we
work. You know, it starts with ready for
this conversation about what you want the show
to do, how you'll know the show is
doing it, you know, and then what it
is like to build a team that figures
out how to do the rest. But podcast
partnership.com
has everything you need. And for the record,
Paul and I have no financial relationship,
just so you know that. Paul's gonna suggest

(59:35):
you go where he's gonna suggest you to
go. This video is for those of you
thinking about doing a business podcast.
We'd love to have you over on blueberry.com.
Obviously, that would be great. But,
the main thing is we want businesses to
get started, and we hope that you will
too. Any final thoughts? Is there an email
address or anything?
Podcast partnership@gmail.com.
Awesome. We we try to make it really,

(59:57):
really easy. You know, and what Todd said
about, you know, you know, go with somebody
who's going,
It's funny. I I started joking about this,
but it's become
almost, almost a bit of a nightmare. You
know, I used to joke that there were
companies who were in it for the sweet,
sweet podcast money,
and

(01:00:18):
it's just become more true than ever. You
know?
When you talk to a podcast consultant, you
know, should have some successes. You know? Guys,
for the record, our clients have seen 1,000,000
of downloads, have been 1,000,000 of dollars. Our
shows have been on,
Colbert,
have been on The Daily Show, have been
on you know, we know how to get
our clients reach.

(01:00:38):
For hosting,
you might wanna find somebody who's been around
for a while.
Todd, how long has Blueberry been around? 19
years going on 20. Exactly. So, you know,
you know, and it makes sense, man. You
don't wanna hire a fat fitness coach. You
know, you don't wanna hire a poor financial
adviser. You know, you don't wanna buy a
home for a real estate agent who drives
a a broken down VW van by the

(01:01:00):
river. Take that same logic to podcast. If
somebody tells you podcasting is different, run away.
The worst Even if they're at the podcasting
show. The worst call my tech support folks
get is someone calls, like, hey. I'm a
podcast consultant for show x y z, and
they just Yeah. There's almost a mute button
that they have because they know it's not
gonna be usually a good call. So hire
wisely. Oh, oh, Todd. Oh, you should have

(01:01:23):
you should put this in the website now.
Like, have the podcast consultant line.
Podcast consultant that need help, then give them
to the to the new person, you know,
that kind of stuff again. We we have
a podcast consultant course coming, but we'll be
have more on that soon. Oh, very good.
Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, we're we're trying
to help podcasters.
Yeah. And and it doesn't matter if their
business or independence, but we are we're out

(01:01:45):
of time. We don't wanna waste your time,
so thanks for being here, Paul. And and
Thanks for having me talk. Yeah. And, for
those of you that have been, watching or
listening, reach out to me, todd@blueberry.com,
if you have any questions and, reach out
to Paul if you're a business and or
anything else. Paul's a great dude from he's
got the history. He's got the bone. So
thanks for spending this hour with him. Hey,
Todd.

(01:02:05):
Thanks for joining us. Come back next week.
And in the meantime,
head to podcast insider.com
for more information.
To subscribe, share, and read our show notes,
check out the latest suite of services, and
learn how Blueberry
can help you leverage your podcast. Visit blueberry.com.
That's Blueberry without the e's because it can't

(01:02:27):
afford the e's.

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