February 17, 2025 • 43 mins
Discover the alarming truth about teen dating violence with Katie Blackburn, executive director of Jana's Campaign, as she shares powerful insights and strategies to combat this pervasive issue. Through the tragic story of Jana Mackey, whose advocacy ignited a movement, Katie outlines how education is key to preventing relationship violence among teens. Get ready to learn how understanding and recognizing early warning signs can empower young people to foster healthy, respectful relationships.
Explore the often-hidden world of emotional abuse in teen relationships, where manipulation and love bombing are more than just buzzwords—they're dangerous patterns that can have lasting impacts. Our conversation sheds light on how early education around consent, boundaries, and healthy communication can disrupt the generational cycle of violence. Katie passionately emphasizes the importance of teaching teens to recognize and reject these harmful behaviors before they can take root.
Technology plays a dual role in teen relationships, offering both connection and potential for harm. Hear how social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok influence teens' interactions, sometimes facilitating abuse through blurred boundaries and cyberbullying. We dive into the critical role adults must play in shaping safe environments and policies, fostering open dialogues about digital safety and respectful relationships. Tune in to understand how comprehensive education and community involvement are crucial in breaking the silence and building a culture that stands firmly against abuse.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The subject matter of this podcast will address
difficult topics multiple formsof violence, and identity-based
discrimination and harassment.
We acknowledge that thiscontent may be difficult and
have listed specific contentwarnings in each episode
description to help create apositive, safe experience for
all listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In this country, 31 million crimes 31 million crimes
are reported every year.
That is one every second.
Out of that, every 24 minutesthere is a murder.
Every five minutes there is arape.
Every two to five minutes thereis a sexual assault.
Every nine seconds in thiscountry, a woman is assaulted by
someone who told her that heloved her, by someone who told
(00:43):
her it was her fault, by someonewho tries to tell the rest of
us it's none of our business andI am proud to stand here today
with each of you to call thatperpetrator a liar.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Welcome to the podcast on crimes against women.
I'm Maria McMullin.
When reflecting on teen dating,thoughts or memories may
gravitate towards love notes andlaughter, school dances,
awkward kisses and constantconnection.
Although those things may existin reality, the teen dating
domain offers a much more grimpicture.
In fact, statistics reveal that1 in 12 teens experience
(01:16):
physical dating violence and 1in 10 teens experience sexual
dating violence.
These numbers are exacerbatedby the ubiquitous nature of
social media, internet accessand the continual glorification
of violence and sexuality withinpop culture.
Unfortunately, many of ourchildren suffer from anxiety and
depression, engage in unhealthyor illegal activity and even
(01:39):
attempt or succeed in committingsuicide due to dating violence.
Our conversation today willcenter around what can be done
to confront and combat theenduring phenomenon of teen
dating violence.
Katie Blackburn is the executivedirector of Jana's Campaign.
In her role, ms Blackburnoversees all internal and
external operations, as well asprovides programming and
(02:01):
training to thousands ofstudents and community members.
She also leads Jana'scampaign's efforts to educate on
the topics of healthy andunhealthy relationships,
ultimately to prevent theviolence before it starts.
Ms Blackburn has been deeplyinvolved in the relationship
violence prevention communitysince 2015 and holds a
bachelor's and master's degreein organizational leadership
(02:23):
from Fort Hayes State University.
Katie, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure we're heretoday to talk about teen dating
violence.
But before we dive into thattopic, tell us about Janice
Campaign and how you got startedworking with youth.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Absolutely.
Janice Campaign is a nationaleducation and violence
prevention organizationdedicated to reducing
relationship violence througheducation and community
engagement.
The organization was founded inhonor of Jana Mackey, a
passionate advocate for women'srights and social justice, who
tragically lost her life todomestic violence perpetrated by
(03:01):
an ex-boyfriend.
Her family and friendsestablished Jana's campaign to
continue her legacy byempowering individuals and
communities to prevent violencebefore it starts.
One of our core focuses is youtheducation, because we know that
early intervention andprevention education is key to
stopping violence before itstarts.
We work directly with middleschools, high schools and
(03:24):
colleges to provideage-appropriate programming on
common warning signs ofunhealthy relationships, healthy
relationship behaviors andbystander intervention
strategies.
As for me, I got involved withthis work at Janice Campaign
about nine years ago aftergraduating from Fort A State
University with my master's, ourco-founders Drs Christie and
(03:45):
Kurt Rengar.
Jana's parents were my collegeprofessors, who I had the
privilege of learning from, andnow I have the privilege of
working with students, educatorsand community leaders to bring
prevention programming intoschools and classrooms across
Kansas, colorado and Nebraska.
Mainly, our goal is to equipyoung people with language
knowledge and skills that theyneed to build healthy,
(04:07):
respectful relationships and torecognize those red flags early.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
That's a great overview.
Thank you for all of thatbackground.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about Jana and what
happened to her?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Sure, I'd be happy to .
So Jana was an amazing,outstanding woman.
She grew up in Kansas andattended the University of
Kansas and was actually firstthere on a music scholarship and
then found her passion ingender and women's studies.
She graduated and then she wasa lobbyist at the Kansas State
(04:40):
Capitol, advocating for women'srights as well as safety, and
decided that law school would bethe best next step to really
create change in her home stateand then beyond.
So she attended law school atKU and it was actually during
her first year of law schoolthat she met him.
They dated throughout the wholefirst year and towards the end
(05:03):
of her relationship she startedto notice some common red flags
and warning signs like extremejealousy, possessiveness and
even stalking.
So she decided to break up withhim.
Because what's really ironicabout Jana's story is not only
was she working, you know, atthe state level, she also was a
volunteer victims advocate, soshe was working firsthand with
(05:23):
victims and survivors, so shewas an expert on these topics.
So she broke up with him andthen three weeks later is when
he murdered her he actually fledthe state of Kansas and they
found him in New Jersey and hewas put in jail and then he took
his own life while he was injail.
And so, because of all of thatand because of who Jana was, her
(05:44):
parents felt like this was thebest thing that they could do.
Her parents were alsoprofessors of leadership and
they felt like, because we teachyoung people that leadership is
about creating change, that'swhere we need to be focusing our
efforts.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
She sounds like an amazing young woman.
I did read a little bit of herstory before you and I got
together today and she was soaccomplished and so
inspirational and I think thatthis is the perfect type of
movement.
She would have really gottenbehind a movement like this had
she never been a victim ofdating violence.
(06:21):
So we're here to talkspecifically about teen dating
violence today and, of course,the education programs that
Jana's campaign presents acrossthe country, and you're
operating on the front lines,interacting with teens directly.
What do you believe are theirmost challenging obstacles when
(06:41):
they are dating?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
You know, I would say one of the biggest challenges
that teens face is understandingwhat a healthy relationship is.
Many young people arenavigating relationships for the
first time and theirunderstanding of love,
boundaries and respect is oftenshaped by peers, the media, as
well as family dynamics, andthey might feel pressure to be
(07:05):
in a relationship.
They might have unrealisticstandards that are set by the
media.
They also might face pressureto engage in behaviors that they
aren't comfortable with or thatthey're inexperienced in.
I think also, jealousy andcontrol can be mistaken as a
sign of love, and so, you know,I think all of those aspects are
(07:25):
obstacles that they face.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And how do they approach those obstacles?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, I think that is a great question, because I
think it's probably differentfor every situation how they are
approaching them.
I don't know, first, if they'reeven aware that they should be,
or, two, that they're relyingon their friends for peer
support.
I know later on there's aquestion that we'll be
(07:54):
discussing regarding supportsystems, and it's not uncommon
that those young people who areexperiencing violence will not
disclose to anyone but theirpeers, and so I think within
themselves they're discussingthese things rather than seeking
help from a trusted adult orother resources that are
(08:14):
available.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, it's a really fear-inducing situation and
teens are already faced with alot of fears, or facing a lot of
their fears, and one of themwould be to out somebody who's
committing these kinds of acts,and especially doing it to your.
Telling your parents would beincredibly terrifying.
You know, if you're a teenager,so I could think there's just
(08:37):
so much fear in the situationthat it can be difficult for
them to even face thoseobstacles.
You know head on Now, abusewithin adult relationships can
look different than those inteen relationships.
Can you share with us some ofthe warning signs of teen dating
violence and maybe within thecontext of what parents should
(08:58):
look for, what educators shouldlook for, what other peers
should look for?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah for sure.
This is actually something thatwe focus on quite a bit is
identifying these common warningsigns extreme jealousy and
possessiveness.
You know constantly checking in, accusing their partner of
flirting or cheating on them, oryou know acting as if they
belong to them, that they ownthem.
Isolation is very common, so apartner may try to cut off their
(09:24):
partner from their friends,their family as well as their
interest in extracurriculars,and they might have mood swings,
so going from affectionate tocruel very quickly, or utilizing
their anger to manipulate andcontrol.
And some of those controllingbehaviors can be telling what
their partner, what they shouldand shouldn't wear and who they
should hang out with and maybehow they should act.
(09:46):
It can also be coercion, sopressuring or pushing a partner
into unwanted physical, sexualor emotional situations.
That could be partying,drinking or doing drugs, etc.
Digital abuse, so constantlytexting, demanding passwords,
monitoring their social mediaaccounts, seeing who's liking
their pictures or utilizingtechnology to harass or
(10:10):
manipulate.
One piece that I really wantedto focus on, because we see this
happen often and young folks, Ithink, aren't always aware that
these behaviors can beunhealthy and are unhealthy.
But emotional abuse, soconstant criticism or put downs,
guilt, tripping andmanipulation in that regard,
(10:34):
self-harm or suicide if therelationship is to end.
We do an activity with youngpeople.
So far.
We've done that for the past 10years with a little over 10,500
middle school and high schoolstudents in Kansas, colorado and
Nebraska and that data showsthat 33% of students that we've
(10:54):
done the activity with say theyor someone they know has
threatened suicide if therelationship were to end.
So we know that these socialissues are really closely tied
and it's extremely important forus to recognize the connection
so we can better prevent themtogether.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's a great list.
I hope people are taking noteson all of those warning signs.
What about love bombing?
Is that a form of abuse?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yes, I would say that would fit underneath the
emotional abuse category.
You know, while my list that Ihad focused on criticism and put
downs, love bombing would bethe opposite.
So, constantly filling them,you know, telling them how
beautiful they are, that theylove them so much, all of these
various things.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Or maybe just wanting to be with them constantly.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yes, right, too serious, too fast, right.
So maybe they say I love youwithin the first week or two
they were dating, so that thepartner that is on the receiving
end of that love you might feelpressure to say it back and
they might not feel the same way.
So, yeah, I definitely thinkthat that can be considered
emotional abuse as well.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Thank you for kind of helping me understand that a
little bit more.
Let's talk about some of thetraits that cause dating
violence.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
For sure.
Dating violence is often aresult of learned behaviors or
social influences, and it can,you know, things that can lead
to those behaviors include lackof healthy relationship,
education Right.
So if teens aren't educated onrespect and boundaries and
(12:30):
consent, they may unknowinglyengage in harmful behaviors.
I think exposure to violence sowitnessing that at home in the
media, like TV shows and moviesand music that they listen to
Maybe their peers normalizecontrolling behaviors as well,
and so they're seeing that intheir friends' relationships and
that exposure makes itnormalized Also, again, peer
(12:55):
pressure, societal norms, somesocial expectations can allow
for these harmful power dynamicsto take place, unfortunately,
naturally.
And then I think also, you know, sometimes because young
people's brains are stilldeveloping, they don't always
have great emotional regulationskills, and so I think that that
(13:17):
can play into some of thesebehaviors becoming normalized or
becoming something that theyengage in regularly without even
again, you know being awarethat their actions are harmful.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, you mentioned consent and I'd love if we could
clarify what consent actuallymeans.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Sure.
So we at Jana's Campaign useconsent and permission
interchangeably.
Consent is a mutual,enthusiastic and ongoing
agreement to participate in anykind of activity and of course
that includes sexual activity.
But it's not solely for sexualactivity and many people, not
just teens, struggle tounderstand exactly what consent
(14:03):
is.
It must freely be given.
It cannot be obtained throughpressure or guilt or threats
even and it can be withdrawn atany time.
So if somebody agreed to onething before, they have the
right to say no at any point andwithdraw that.
I also think it has to bespecific.
So saying yes to one thing,like holding hands or giving a
(14:25):
hug, does not mean that theyhave permission or consent to do
something else, like kissing oreven sexual activity, and it
requires awareness, right.
So if somebody is under theinfluence of drugs or alcohol or
even asleep, they cannot getconsent.
And when we're talking aboutsexual assault specifically,
(14:45):
that occurs when consent isignored or violated, and so
educating teens on boundariesand respect and having clear
communication can help preventthese things from occurring in
the first place.
I think that consent should bepracticed from little kids up
till we're adults.
Asking a young child if theywant to hug, aunt Sally is
(15:09):
asking for consent.
Rather than telling them to hugAunt Sally, they should be able
to make that decision and giveconsent themselves, and I think
that kind of behavior that wecan practice as adults will help
shift into young people belowthe teenage age, as well as
teenagers, better understandwhat consent actually is.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, it really helps them set boundaries for
themselves and that just becomesan important life skill, moving
forward in lots of differentways.
And I like the way that youkind of put the boundaries
around the word consent and whatthe meaning is.
And you know.
Other examples not just sexualactivity, even though that's a
big one would be things likedrinking or, you know, forcing
(15:53):
someone to do drugs with you ifthey don't want to do that or
they don't want to drink or theydon't want to go to a certain
party.
All of those things can becoercive and lead to teen dating
violence, I would think, orabuse in any type of a
relationship.
Now studies about intimatepartner violence in general
(16:14):
uncover that when boundaries arebroken or victimization as a
child occurs, that the chancesit will happen again as that
child matures is greater.
Can you provide some insightinto this concept and share with
us how you see it manifest inthe work that you do?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Sure.
So, like you shared, we knowthat research illustrates that
individuals who experiencechildhood victimization whether
that's through abuse or neglector even exposure to domestic
violence they are at higher riskof experiencing or perpetrating
intimate partner violence laterin life.
And this pattern is often knownor referred to as the
(16:50):
generational cycle of violencebecause it occurs early.
Experiences can shape aperson's understanding of
relationships and power dynamicsand conflict resolution, and we
see this occur in our work inseveral ways.
So teens who struggle torecognize that the behaviors are
unhealthy, so they don'tnecessarily realize that they're
(17:11):
in an abusive relationship orthat their partner has
controlling behaviors becausethey've grown up in environments
where that's the norm or theywere common.
Some teens and young adults arealso unaware of how to set
boundaries.
I would say that would bemyself.
When I was a young person, Iwas very unaware of how to set
boundaries because I neverunderstood what that actually
(17:32):
meant, and so I think that's ahuge learning opportunity for
young people and adults.
And then we also know thatperpetrators who have a history
of trauma while not all abusershave that history themselves
some who grew up witnessingviolence may repeat those
behaviors if they've neverlearned healthy conflict
(17:52):
resolution skills.
We see this as an explanationfor their behavior, but never an
excuse.
The work we do in schools helpsinterrupt that generational
cycle.
So while the history ofchildhood victimization can
increase the future risk, itdoesn't necessarily determine
that person's faith.
So if they have education andsupport and early intervention,
(18:15):
we really believe that we canhelp young people build those
healthy and safe relationshipsand stop that generational cycle
.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, that's a really positive and powerful message
that can come out of this typeof training.
Now I'm curious about how teensperceive healthy versus
unhealthy relationships.
Is this a concept that theyreadily grasp, or do they seem
to hold on to an alreadyestablished narrative in their
(18:42):
own minds about what this means?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, I think that's a great question to ask.
From our experience, or myexperience in providing our
programming, I think some teensimmediately understand the
difference between healthy andunhealthy behaviors or
relationships, and others dohold on to misconceptions that
have shaped their personal viewsand experiences.
So, like we've discussed before, some of that might mean
(19:08):
jealousy means that they care.
So if they're constantlytexting me, that's a good thing,
right, because they always wantto text me and know where I'm
at and who I'm with and what I'mdoing.
But those questions really leantowards jealousy.
Fighting may be seen as anormal part of every
relationship, so they mightthink that constant arguing or
even dramatic breakups are justa part of young dating
(19:30):
relationships and it's not abuseunless it's physical, which I
think is a common misconceptionfor the issue as a whole.
But emotional, verbal anddigital abuse are more common
for young people than thatphysical violence ever is, and
so they might not take it asseriously because it's not
physical violence.
Or maybe they just think that'show relationships work.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, and I think a lot of the things that you point
out are really glamorized infilm and pop culture and music
and on social media.
You see a lot of those themesin films, especially about, you
know, boy meets girl, they fallin love, things fall apart,
(20:13):
she's heartbroken, he's angryand this isn't a new concept in
literature or film.
One of the earliest films Iremember watching along those
themes was when I was a youngkid watching Wuthering Heights,
one of the original versions ofWuthering Heights with Laurence
Olivier, and it was so tragic.
(20:35):
He was such a dark, tragicfigure.
But the whole dynamic throughoutthe movie everyone is abusing
everyone else and it's not funny, but it's just so in your face,
right, and it's everywhere andwe all grew up with it and so
we've had to make consciouschoices about what types of
relationships we want to have,what types of boundaries we want
(20:58):
to set.
So let's talk about the homelife of some teenagers.
So if a teen is growing up inan abusive home, that teen may
think teen dating violence isnormal or it might feel normal
to them that's a normal courseof a relationship.
But as an educator, how do youaddress that?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah.
So I know I briefly spoke alittle bit earlier on some of
these dynamics, but I think thatteens who grow up in abusive
households unhealthy behaviorssuch as control, jealousy and
manipulation or even physicalviolence, can feel normal or
even expected.
As prevention educators, wechallenge.
(21:36):
Our challenge, excuse me, is tohelp these teens recognize that
unhealthy, what is unhealthy,and introduce alternate
relationship models and empowerthem to make different choices.
So we approach this by creatinga safe and judgment-free space.
We focus on building trust andlistening without judgment and
encouraging them to feel heardand respected before we offer
(21:59):
them any guidance or connectthem to a trained advocate, and
that we also want to alwaysreinforce that abuse is never at
the fault of the victim or theperson experiencing that harm.
We also work to help themrecognize patterns of abuse
right, because it's not just aone-time thing.
As humans we have typical humanbehavior like jealousy and
(22:21):
anger, but when those behaviorsare occurring as a pattern, as a
continuous act, that's when wecan identify those as unhealthy
and abusive.
So teens who have witnessedthat abuse at home may not see
verbal put downs or extremejealousy as problematic.
So we utilize interactivediscussions to help them
recognize those red flags,teaching those healthy
(22:43):
relationship behaviors.
So not only focusing on what isunhealthy, but what is a
healthy relationship and whatthat should feel like.
So including respect, trust,good communication, support,
moving at a mutual pace and thenalso having fun.
I think that's an aspect ofrelationships that sometimes
teens can forget about thattheir relationship should be fun
(23:05):
and they should enjoy time withtheir partners.
We also empower teens to, youknow, set those boundaries, and
what does that look like?
Or how can I set boundaries?
And that saying no can maybehelp them feel like they have
more control in theirrelationship and that it's okay
to tell somebody no.
Then we also discuss somedifferent coping mechanisms for
(23:27):
dealing with stress and anxiety,because we also know that's a
crisis that our young people arefacing today is high levels of
of stress and anxiety, and then,of course, connecting them with
support systems.
So, like I shared, we do workin a tri-state area, sometimes
even beyond, and so when weprovide programming, we're not
always around, so we want tomake sure that we are connecting
(23:50):
them with local resources.
So if a teen ever disclosesthat they're experiencing
violence at home or in their ownrelationship, we make sure that
we provide them withinformation to their local
advocacy resources and thenencourage healthy friendships,
mentors and school staffconnections so they can have,
hopefully, a sense of safety andbelonging outside of their home
(24:11):
and within their school as well.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You mentioned alternate relationship models
and I'm curious if you can giveus an example of maybe one of
those.
And then also I'm also curiousabout how teens feel or what
feedback you get from them aboutthis type of education.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Sure.
So an alternate relationshipmodel could simply be comparing
and contrasting an unhealthyrelationship to a healthy
relationship, and that I feellike we really focus on that
through storytelling.
So we share Jana's story and wehighlight all of those red
flags that she identified, andthen we can utilize that as a
(24:51):
comparison.
Okay, if you're identifyingthese types of behaviors, it's
more likely to be unhealthy orabusive, right.
But if we're identifying thesetypes of behaviors like respect
and trust and accountability,right.
So self-accountability andtaking responsibility for one's
own action rather than placingthe blame on their partner, and
so that's one way that we dothat.
(25:14):
We actually have great feedbackfrom young people.
I would say the thing thatsticks out the most is, time and
time again, we have studentscome up to us after we provide
our programming and they willshare.
Thank you so much.
I didn't even know I could talkabout these things.
You've given me language to nowknow that I can share how I've
(25:37):
been feeling, what I've beenexperiencing, all of those types
of things.
So we absolutely believe thatteens are change makers, and so
we love to hear that they feellike that's something that we've
given them is the language thatthey can now express and talk
about the experiences thatthey've had.
Yeah, what a powerful gift.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Right, you can start to name feelings or name
experiences.
Then you can really get towhat's happening and maybe how
to resolve it.
Good for you.
I'm so glad to hear that.
Thank you.
Now we're talking aboutdynamics.
That Now we're talking aboutdynamics and teens.
These days, as you mentioned,they have hundreds of platforms
to rise up or rise againstsomething and to create and
(26:18):
recreate themselves in real time.
How does all of this impacttheir idea of dating?
That can lead to violence.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So I focus my perspective on this regarding
the digital age that we are nowliving in.
You know, teens have platformslike Instagram and TikTok and
all these other various things,and I feel like it has
completely transformed how teensview experience and engage in
(26:50):
life, but also in relationships.
I mean, I think it has bothpositive and negative impacts.
Technology allows and I alwaysthink, too, back to the pandemic
and how it was challenging foreveryone, but I think,
especially for teens.
I think it has just totallyshifted how they connect with
others, shifted how they connectwith others.
(27:15):
But you know, technology, theonline platforms allow for
connection, self-expression andeven advocacy for the things
that they're passionate about,Like politics, like you
mentioned.
I think I've seen, or I feellike I've seen, more teens
getting involved in expressingtheir thoughts and opinions on
political aspects.
But I also think that havingthat platform and access to
(27:35):
information and other people cancreate unique risks that can
contribute to unhealthy dynamicsin a relationship.
One constant connectivitythat's something that past
generations didn't have and thatis something that they're
dealing with all the time.
They're constantly online,whether that's through texting,
and they might not have naturalboundaries set up that way.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, and to that point that being able to reach
someone instantly and then theexpectation that they would
respond to you, it equally isyeah.
And it becomes instantgratification isn't really what
I'm trying to describe.
It's that, yeah, and it becomesinstant gratification.
Isn't really what I'm trying todescribe.
It's that like, where were you,Like what you know, having you
at my fingertips at all times,Right.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
For sure.
Yeah, I would you know?
Add to what I mentioned thatthis is something that this is
their norm as well?
This is a social norm for youngpeople.
That this is their norm as well.
This is a social norm for youngpeople.
So, pressure to send intimateor private photos, cyber
bullying, manipulation,threatening posts like if you
really loved me, you'd prove itby doing this type of thing, I
(28:43):
think.
Describing a couple other formsof technology facilitated abuse
monitoring I mentioned that Onething that I have from
providing programs and havingthe opportunity to have real
conversations with young peopleis you know, this texting piece
is something that's alwaysoccurring, but also pressuring
(29:03):
your partner to FaceTime you allthe time or to fall asleep
while FaceTiming together.
Um, oh wow, I hadn't heard ofthat.
Yeah, young people will, in asafe environment.
Young people will share a lotwith you and I think that's I
really love that, because ithelps us make sure that our
programming is relevant andaccurate to the experiences that
(29:25):
they're having.
Another really common thingthat they have shared is the use
of Snapchat and the map theSnap Map that's on Snapchat to
constantly be monitoring, somaybe you don't get an answer
right away from that textmessage, so you pull up Snapchat
and go to the map to see wherethey're at, because you didn't
get that immediate response.
Wow, and so that you know, frommy experience and my
(29:49):
understanding of stalking, thatis considered a stalking
behavior.
I also think that this is uniqueand something that young people
are doing, unfortunately, ismaybe using fake accounts or
asking their friends to followan ex, to keep tabs on them
after they've broken up and toadd a statistic to the sending
(30:12):
explicit photos from thatactivity that I mentioned
earlier that we implement 51% ofstudents that participated say
they or someone they know hassent, received or asked for an
inappropriate or private photo.
So that's you know around 6,000students that we've worked with
that know somebody who has sent, received or asked for an
(30:33):
inappropriate picture, and thenI think, if those pictures are
out there, there's an additionalcoercive and potentially
threatening behavior of you know, if you don't do this, then
I'll share those pictures out.
So, definitely, technologyfacilitated abuse is something
that is occurring often andsomething we are continuously
learning about, because I thinksome of these behaviors are
(30:56):
fairly new and something that Ididn't have to deal with growing
up because the technologywasn't available at that time.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and AI only complicates this
further.
We haven't even touched on thatand how deepfakes are really
destroying people's lives or atleast their mental health.
When it comes to sharing photosand creating photos that aren't
you but look like you, andthat's probably a whole episode
(31:25):
in and of itself.
I agree, I love that teens feelsafe to disclose information in
this type of a forum.
I'm also curious if it empowersthem to speak up on behalf of
others or at least questiontheir peers or talk to their
peers if they suspect thatthey're experiencing some type
(31:48):
of violence, experiencing sometype of violence.
So let's talk about bystandersyndrome or the bystander effect
, and how teen dating violenceis impacted by that.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Sure, I definitely think the bystander effect plays
a significant role in teendating violence.
They're witnessing andexperiencing these behaviors and
I think they might be hesitantto intervene because they might
not recognize it as abuse.
As we discussed earlier,they're fearful of social
consequences, so they're worriedabout losing a friendship or
(32:20):
even getting involved.
Maybe they feel like they don'tknow enough to get involved.
They think somebody else willstep in the typical bystander
effect, or they might feelpowerless because they're unsure
of what to say or what to do.
When we provide our bystanderintervention trainings, I would
say fear of social consequencesor fear of retaliation is what
(32:42):
young people are sharing mostoften as reasons why they're not
stepping in.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah, I think that that could be true of adults too
.
When people don't stand up whenthey witness something that
fear, we're back to that.
We started off the showstalking about fear.
Fear is definitely a reason anda way to silence people, and
silence only helps theperpetrator.
We all know that.
Does the training providelanguage, then, for teens to
(33:10):
talk about abuse that theywitness, either with their peers
or with an adult, if they needto report it?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yes.
So we utilize MVP Mentors inViolence Prevention curriculum
for our bystander interventiontrainings and it encourages the
three Ds of bystanderintervention.
So if they're witnessing orexperiencing these behaviors,
one, they can be direct, so goup and say something to
(33:38):
themselves hey, that's not OK, Idon't like what's going on.
If they're not comfortabledoing that, they can distract,
so change the subject or createa diversion away from the
incident.
They can delegate, so get helpfrom a teacher, a group of peers
, a coach or another trustedadult.
So direct, delegate, distract.
We also encourage them thatfollowing up the next day or
(34:00):
checking in after the fact isstill a form of stepping up and
being an active bystander.
Of course, when we discussthese strategies, we encourage
them.
We discuss these strategies, weencourage them make sure that
they feel safe to be able tostep in and if they don't feel
like they can step in and remainsafe.
Delegation is probably the bestoption and talking to a trusted
(34:22):
adult is probably the best nextstep.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
That's really good advice.
For sure.
It's great advice for even justfor parents to give to their
own children in lots ofdifferent, for lots of different
reasons, not just teen datingviolence.
I know in some school districtsthey have an app where you can
report things like bullying, andI'm curious if there is any
type of companion app thatyou're aware of that works
(34:49):
specifically for teen datingviolence, or if teen dating
violence can be reported even ifit's just suspected can be
reported through, like an applike Stop it, which is used for
bullying.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Right To my knowledge I don't know that there is a
specific one specific to teendating violence.
There is another program or appsimilar to that out of Colorado
, Safe to Tell.
We have been told by schooldistricts that we can provide
the information that if they seeteen dating violence, that can
(35:21):
also be reported through thatportal or that app.
So it doesn't have to bespecifically bullying that's
occurring, they can report anykind of incident.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
That's really good to know, and I also know many
school districts monitor anycommunications as well as
websites and other links thatstudents use on their
district-approved technologydevice.
So if your student has aChromebook, let's say that they
(35:52):
rent or lease from their school,and they type in abbreviations
that are known in the databaseof what different terms mean.
The communication will beflagged by the school and sent
to the counselor, and then aparent will be notified and the
student will be, you know,called for a discussion about
whatever the communication is,and this could be.
(36:14):
It doesn't have to be somethingviolent, even related to teen
dating violence.
It could be something thatcauses concern for the student's
well-being as well as you knowthe fact they could be being
bullied or having a difficultexperience at home, or it could
be anything, and so I think thatthere are additional safety
(36:35):
measures in place within a lotof school districts that are
kind of monitoring what's goingon, and I'm also surprised how
astute many school officialsreally are about what is going
on, like in the interaction, thesocial interaction and in the
physical environment of theschool.
(36:55):
They're usually, in myexperience, really on the pulse.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, and I definitely think districts are
doing a lot of great work.
Of course, there's always morework to be done.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, you can't do everything, and that's why we
need things like Jana's campaignto help round out this.
You unfortunately so manysocial issues that have to be
discussed and educated.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Young people need to be educated on so many social
issues.
One thing that we suggest toschool districts that work with
us is that they have a separateteen dating violence policy.
So a majority of time theseissues are snuck into the
bullying, anti-bullying policy,and while that's you know good,
(37:57):
we think that it can be betterby having a totally separate
policy.
So one for anti-bullying, onefor teen dating.
Violence prevention andeducation.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Smart, that's really smart.
I'm going to go home and lookup the teen dating violence
policy for my local schooldistrict and I'm going to send
you an email and let you knowthat I found it.
Hopefully, when teenagers arespending large amounts of time
in structured environments suchas school or even sports, or
maybe at home, what are someways that the adults in their
(38:28):
lives can prevent youth fromentering in, embracing or
engaging in a violentrelationship?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, I think that's a great question because they're
critical allies right topreventing these issues and we
need adults to play the uniqueroles that they have to educate
and model and intervene to theseunfortunate situations.
So teachers and school staffcan integrate this education
into their curriculums.
(38:55):
We utilize a curriculum by theHazelden Betty Ford Foundation
and that is Safe Dates.
Safe Dates is the name of thecurriculum.
It's a wonderful curriculumthat's easily implemented into
classrooms.
They can also create safe andsupportive cultures within the
classroom and then watch for thewarning signs.
(39:16):
So be educated on what arecommon warning signs, but also
the effects.
So maybe you have a highachieving student that's
starting to disassociate alittle bit in the classroom, not
be as active as they once were,or their grades are dropping,
and so just noticing those smalltypes of behavior changes and
knowing that they can reach outto them and offer support
(39:38):
Because, like we discussed,students may be fearful to talk
to a trusted adult because ofthe potential consequences that
may occur Coaches and mentors, Ithink, can set expectations for
respect and call out any kindof harmful behavior.
We utilize two nationalprograms from Futures Without
Violence, Coaching Boys Into Menand Athletes as Leaders.
(40:01):
Those are curriculums that arevery easy to implement into
sports and athletic programs,Healthcare providers can
normalize conversations aboutrelationships.
So simply asking a question doyou feel safe in your
relationship?
Of course, making sure they askthat when nobody else is in the
(40:22):
room, to make sure that theyfeel comfortable and safe, and
expressing if they do feel safein their relationship, and then
screen for different signs ofabuse.
And then parents and guardiansagain to that activity I
referenced earlier.
88% of teens who haveparticipated in that activity
state that they believe teendating violence is a problem for
(40:44):
young people today, and this isa very outdated statistic.
It's from 2004, so 21 years ago.
But that research showed that81% of parents that were
surveyed either believe teendating violence is not an issue
or they admit that they don'tknow it's an issue.
So there's a very strongdisconnect between young people
saying yes, this is a problemand their parents not being
(41:06):
certain that it is.
So we encourage parents andguardians to talk early and
often have conversations abouthealthy and unhealthy
relationships, consent, digitalsafety, and that should start at
a young age and continue asthey grow up.
And then I also think, modelingrespectful relationships,
because we learn by watchingothers and how adults treat each
(41:29):
other, Show mutual respect andconflict resolution, and I think
it's also okay to say, yeah, Ididn't handle that very well.
Here's how I could have handledthat situation better and being
vulnerable with their youngpeople.
Stay involved as well.
Don't just have a one-timeconversation and then be done.
I think that potentially closesthe door, but if you continue
(41:51):
the conversation, they will knowthat that door is always open
and that they can come and talkto you to educate the community
on these issues but also work tocreate an environment and a
culture that says abuse andviolence is not tolerated.
(42:16):
You know that can be donethrough awareness campaigns,
even parent education nights ordifferent activities to connect
youth with their trusted mentorsin the community.
But when adults are proactiveand engaged, they can start to
recognize those red flags anddevelop healthy relationship
skills with young people.
Teen Dating Balance isn't justabout a one-time intervention.
(42:38):
It's about educating andmodeling and supporting at every
stage of a young person's life.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
So much good advice today.
Thank you so much.
Katie for offering all of thoseideas and all of that
information to us.
Where can people learn moreabout Jana's campaign?
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Well, thank you so much for having me, and I
appreciate the opportunity toshare a little more about Jana
and about our work.
Information about Jana'scampaign can be found at
janascampaignorg.
J-a-n-a-s campaignorg, and wealso have social media accounts
on Facebook, instagram andLinkedIn, so we share
(43:16):
information regularly on thosesocial media sites.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Perfect, thank you.
Thanks so much for listening.
Until next time, stay safe.
The 2025 Conference on CrimesAgainst Women will take place in
Dallas, texas, may 19th throughthe 22nd at the Sheraton Dallas
.
Learn more and register atconferencecaworg and follow us
on social media at National CCAW.
The subject matter of this podcast will address
difficult topics multiple formsof violence, and identity-based
discrimination and harassment.
We acknowledge that thiscontent may be difficult and
have listed specific contentwarnings in each episode
description to help create apositive, safe experience for
all listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In this country, 31 million crimes 31 million crimes
are reported every year.
That is one every second.
Out of that, every 24 minutesthere is a murder.
Every five minutes there is arape.
Every two to five minutes thereis a sexual assault.
Every nine seconds in thiscountry, a woman is assaulted by
someone who told her that heloved her, by someone who told
(00:43):
her it was her fault, by someonewho tries to tell the rest of
us it's none of our business andI am proud to stand here today
with each of you to call thatperpetrator a liar.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Welcome to the podcast on crimes against women.
I'm Maria McMullin.
When reflecting on teen dating,thoughts or memories may
gravitate towards love notes andlaughter, school dances,
awkward kisses and constantconnection.
Although those things may existin reality, the teen dating
domain offers a much more grimpicture.
In fact, statistics reveal that1 in 12 teens experience
(01:16):
physical dating violence and 1in 10 teens experience sexual
dating violence.
These numbers are exacerbatedby the ubiquitous nature of
social media, internet accessand the continual glorification
of violence and sexuality withinpop culture.
Unfortunately, many of ourchildren suffer from anxiety and
depression, engage in unhealthyor illegal activity and even
(01:39):
attempt or succeed in committingsuicide due to dating violence.
Our conversation today willcenter around what can be done
to confront and combat theenduring phenomenon of teen
dating violence.
Katie Blackburn is the executivedirector of Jana's Campaign.
In her role, ms Blackburnoversees all internal and
external operations, as well asprovides programming and
(02:01):
training to thousands ofstudents and community members.
She also leads Jana'scampaign's efforts to educate on
the topics of healthy andunhealthy relationships,
ultimately to prevent theviolence before it starts.
Ms Blackburn has been deeplyinvolved in the relationship
violence prevention communitysince 2015 and holds a
bachelor's and master's degreein organizational leadership
(02:23):
from Fort Hayes State University.
Katie, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
It's my pleasure we're heretoday to talk about teen dating
violence.
But before we dive into thattopic, tell us about Janice
Campaign and how you got startedworking with youth.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Absolutely.
Janice Campaign is a nationaleducation and violence
prevention organizationdedicated to reducing
relationship violence througheducation and community
engagement.
The organization was founded inhonor of Jana Mackey, a
passionate advocate for women'srights and social justice, who
tragically lost her life todomestic violence perpetrated by
(03:01):
an ex-boyfriend.
Her family and friendsestablished Jana's campaign to
continue her legacy byempowering individuals and
communities to prevent violencebefore it starts.
One of our core focuses is youtheducation, because we know that
early intervention andprevention education is key to
stopping violence before itstarts.
We work directly with middleschools, high schools and
(03:24):
colleges to provideage-appropriate programming on
common warning signs ofunhealthy relationships, healthy
relationship behaviors andbystander intervention
strategies.
As for me, I got involved withthis work at Janice Campaign
about nine years ago aftergraduating from Fort A State
University with my master's, ourco-founders Drs Christie and
(03:45):
Kurt Rengar.
Jana's parents were my collegeprofessors, who I had the
privilege of learning from, andnow I have the privilege of
working with students, educatorsand community leaders to bring
prevention programming intoschools and classrooms across
Kansas, colorado and Nebraska.
Mainly, our goal is to equipyoung people with language
knowledge and skills that theyneed to build healthy,
(04:07):
respectful relationships and torecognize those red flags early.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
That's a great overview.
Thank you for all of thatbackground.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about Jana and what
happened to her?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Sure, I'd be happy to .
So Jana was an amazing,outstanding woman.
She grew up in Kansas andattended the University of
Kansas and was actually firstthere on a music scholarship and
then found her passion ingender and women's studies.
She graduated and then she wasa lobbyist at the Kansas State
(04:40):
Capitol, advocating for women'srights as well as safety, and
decided that law school would bethe best next step to really
create change in her home stateand then beyond.
So she attended law school atKU and it was actually during
her first year of law schoolthat she met him.
They dated throughout the wholefirst year and towards the end
(05:03):
of her relationship she startedto notice some common red flags
and warning signs like extremejealousy, possessiveness and
even stalking.
So she decided to break up withhim.
Because what's really ironicabout Jana's story is not only
was she working, you know, atthe state level, she also was a
volunteer victims advocate, soshe was working firsthand with
(05:23):
victims and survivors, so shewas an expert on these topics.
So she broke up with him andthen three weeks later is when
he murdered her he actually fledthe state of Kansas and they
found him in New Jersey and hewas put in jail and then he took
his own life while he was injail.
And so, because of all of thatand because of who Jana was, her
(05:44):
parents felt like this was thebest thing that they could do.
Her parents were alsoprofessors of leadership and
they felt like, because we teachyoung people that leadership is
about creating change, that'swhere we need to be focusing our
efforts.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
She sounds like an amazing young woman.
I did read a little bit of herstory before you and I got
together today and she was soaccomplished and so
inspirational and I think thatthis is the perfect type of
movement.
She would have really gottenbehind a movement like this had
she never been a victim ofdating violence.
(06:21):
So we're here to talkspecifically about teen dating
violence today and, of course,the education programs that
Jana's campaign presents acrossthe country, and you're
operating on the front lines,interacting with teens directly.
What do you believe are theirmost challenging obstacles when
(06:41):
they are dating?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
You know, I would say one of the biggest challenges
that teens face is understandingwhat a healthy relationship is.
Many young people arenavigating relationships for the
first time and theirunderstanding of love,
boundaries and respect is oftenshaped by peers, the media, as
well as family dynamics, andthey might feel pressure to be
(07:05):
in a relationship.
They might have unrealisticstandards that are set by the
media.
They also might face pressureto engage in behaviors that they
aren't comfortable with or thatthey're inexperienced in.
I think also, jealousy andcontrol can be mistaken as a
sign of love, and so, you know,I think all of those aspects are
(07:25):
obstacles that they face.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And how do they approach those obstacles?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, I think that is a great question, because I
think it's probably differentfor every situation how they are
approaching them.
I don't know, first, if they'reeven aware that they should be,
or, two, that they're relyingon their friends for peer
support.
I know later on there's aquestion that we'll be
(07:54):
discussing regarding supportsystems, and it's not uncommon
that those young people who areexperiencing violence will not
disclose to anyone but theirpeers, and so I think within
themselves they're discussingthese things rather than seeking
help from a trusted adult orother resources that are
(08:14):
available.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, it's a really fear-inducing situation and
teens are already faced with alot of fears, or facing a lot of
their fears, and one of themwould be to out somebody who's
committing these kinds of acts,and especially doing it to your.
Telling your parents would beincredibly terrifying.
You know, if you're a teenager,so I could think there's just
(08:37):
so much fear in the situationthat it can be difficult for
them to even face thoseobstacles.
You know head on Now, abusewithin adult relationships can
look different than those inteen relationships.
Can you share with us some ofthe warning signs of teen dating
violence and maybe within thecontext of what parents should
(08:58):
look for, what educators shouldlook for, what other peers
should look for?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah for sure.
This is actually something thatwe focus on quite a bit is
identifying these common warningsigns extreme jealousy and
possessiveness.
You know constantly checking in, accusing their partner of
flirting or cheating on them, oryou know acting as if they
belong to them, that they ownthem.
Isolation is very common, so apartner may try to cut off their
(09:24):
partner from their friends,their family as well as their
interest in extracurriculars,and they might have mood swings,
so going from affectionate tocruel very quickly, or utilizing
their anger to manipulate andcontrol.
And some of those controllingbehaviors can be telling what
their partner, what they shouldand shouldn't wear and who they
should hang out with and maybehow they should act.
(09:46):
It can also be coercion, sopressuring or pushing a partner
into unwanted physical, sexualor emotional situations.
That could be partying,drinking or doing drugs, etc.
Digital abuse, so constantlytexting, demanding passwords,
monitoring their social mediaaccounts, seeing who's liking
their pictures or utilizingtechnology to harass or
(10:10):
manipulate.
One piece that I really wantedto focus on, because we see this
happen often and young folks, Ithink, aren't always aware that
these behaviors can beunhealthy and are unhealthy.
But emotional abuse, soconstant criticism or put downs,
guilt, tripping andmanipulation in that regard,
(10:34):
self-harm or suicide if therelationship is to end.
We do an activity with youngpeople.
So far.
We've done that for the past 10years with a little over 10,500
middle school and high schoolstudents in Kansas, colorado and
Nebraska and that data showsthat 33% of students that we've
(10:54):
done the activity with say theyor someone they know has
threatened suicide if therelationship were to end.
So we know that these socialissues are really closely tied
and it's extremely important forus to recognize the connection
so we can better prevent themtogether.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's a great list.
I hope people are taking noteson all of those warning signs.
What about love bombing?
Is that a form of abuse?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yes, I would say that would fit underneath the
emotional abuse category.
You know, while my list that Ihad focused on criticism and put
downs, love bombing would bethe opposite.
So, constantly filling them,you know, telling them how
beautiful they are, that theylove them so much, all of these
various things.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Or maybe just wanting to be with them constantly.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yes, right, too serious, too fast, right.
So maybe they say I love youwithin the first week or two
they were dating, so that thepartner that is on the receiving
end of that love you might feelpressure to say it back and
they might not feel the same way.
So, yeah, I definitely thinkthat that can be considered
emotional abuse as well.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Thank you for kind of helping me understand that a
little bit more.
Let's talk about some of thetraits that cause dating
violence.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
For sure.
Dating violence is often aresult of learned behaviors or
social influences, and it can,you know, things that can lead
to those behaviors include lackof healthy relationship,
education Right.
So if teens aren't educated onrespect and boundaries and
(12:30):
consent, they may unknowinglyengage in harmful behaviors.
I think exposure to violence sowitnessing that at home in the
media, like TV shows and moviesand music that they listen to
Maybe their peers normalizecontrolling behaviors as well,
and so they're seeing that intheir friends' relationships and
that exposure makes itnormalized Also, again, peer
(12:55):
pressure, societal norms, somesocial expectations can allow
for these harmful power dynamicsto take place, unfortunately,
naturally.
And then I think also, you know, sometimes because young
people's brains are stilldeveloping, they don't always
have great emotional regulationskills, and so I think that that
(13:17):
can play into some of thesebehaviors becoming normalized or
becoming something that theyengage in regularly without even
again, you know being awarethat their actions are harmful.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, you mentioned consent and I'd love if we could
clarify what consent actuallymeans.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Sure.
So we at Jana's Campaign useconsent and permission
interchangeably.
Consent is a mutual,enthusiastic and ongoing
agreement to participate in anykind of activity and of course
that includes sexual activity.
But it's not solely for sexualactivity and many people, not
just teens, struggle tounderstand exactly what consent
(14:03):
is.
It must freely be given.
It cannot be obtained throughpressure or guilt or threats
even and it can be withdrawn atany time.
So if somebody agreed to onething before, they have the
right to say no at any point andwithdraw that.
I also think it has to bespecific.
So saying yes to one thing,like holding hands or giving a
(14:25):
hug, does not mean that theyhave permission or consent to do
something else, like kissing oreven sexual activity, and it
requires awareness, right.
So if somebody is under theinfluence of drugs or alcohol or
even asleep, they cannot getconsent.
And when we're talking aboutsexual assault specifically,
(14:45):
that occurs when consent isignored or violated, and so
educating teens on boundariesand respect and having clear
communication can help preventthese things from occurring in
the first place.
I think that consent should bepracticed from little kids up
till we're adults.
Asking a young child if theywant to hug, aunt Sally is
(15:09):
asking for consent.
Rather than telling them to hugAunt Sally, they should be able
to make that decision and giveconsent themselves, and I think
that kind of behavior that wecan practice as adults will help
shift into young people belowthe teenage age, as well as
teenagers, better understandwhat consent actually is.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, it really helps them set boundaries for
themselves and that just becomesan important life skill, moving
forward in lots of differentways.
And I like the way that youkind of put the boundaries
around the word consent and whatthe meaning is.
And you know.
Other examples not just sexualactivity, even though that's a
big one would be things likedrinking or, you know, forcing
(15:53):
someone to do drugs with you ifthey don't want to do that or
they don't want to drink or theydon't want to go to a certain
party.
All of those things can becoercive and lead to teen dating
violence, I would think, orabuse in any type of a
relationship.
Now studies about intimatepartner violence in general
(16:14):
uncover that when boundaries arebroken or victimization as a
child occurs, that the chancesit will happen again as that
child matures is greater.
Can you provide some insightinto this concept and share with
us how you see it manifest inthe work that you do?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Sure.
So, like you shared, we knowthat research illustrates that
individuals who experiencechildhood victimization whether
that's through abuse or neglector even exposure to domestic
violence they are at higher riskof experiencing or perpetrating
intimate partner violence laterin life.
And this pattern is often knownor referred to as the
(16:50):
generational cycle of violencebecause it occurs early.
Experiences can shape aperson's understanding of
relationships and power dynamicsand conflict resolution, and we
see this occur in our work inseveral ways.
So teens who struggle torecognize that the behaviors are
unhealthy, so they don'tnecessarily realize that they're
(17:11):
in an abusive relationship orthat their partner has
controlling behaviors becausethey've grown up in environments
where that's the norm or theywere common.
Some teens and young adults arealso unaware of how to set
boundaries.
I would say that would bemyself.
When I was a young person, Iwas very unaware of how to set
boundaries because I neverunderstood what that actually
(17:32):
meant, and so I think that's ahuge learning opportunity for
young people and adults.
And then we also know thatperpetrators who have a history
of trauma while not all abusershave that history themselves
some who grew up witnessingviolence may repeat those
behaviors if they've neverlearned healthy conflict
(17:52):
resolution skills.
We see this as an explanationfor their behavior, but never an
excuse.
The work we do in schools helpsinterrupt that generational
cycle.
So while the history ofchildhood victimization can
increase the future risk, itdoesn't necessarily determine
that person's faith.
So if they have education andsupport and early intervention,
(18:15):
we really believe that we canhelp young people build those
healthy and safe relationshipsand stop that generational cycle
.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, that's a really positive and powerful message
that can come out of this typeof training.
Now I'm curious about how teensperceive healthy versus
unhealthy relationships.
Is this a concept that theyreadily grasp, or do they seem
to hold on to an alreadyestablished narrative in their
(18:42):
own minds about what this means?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, I think that's a great question to ask.
From our experience, or myexperience in providing our
programming, I think some teensimmediately understand the
difference between healthy andunhealthy behaviors or
relationships, and others dohold on to misconceptions that
have shaped their personal viewsand experiences.
So, like we've discussed before, some of that might mean
(19:08):
jealousy means that they care.
So if they're constantlytexting me, that's a good thing,
right, because they always wantto text me and know where I'm
at and who I'm with and what I'mdoing.
But those questions really leantowards jealousy.
Fighting may be seen as anormal part of every
relationship, so they mightthink that constant arguing or
even dramatic breakups are justa part of young dating
(19:30):
relationships and it's not abuseunless it's physical, which I
think is a common misconceptionfor the issue as a whole.
But emotional, verbal anddigital abuse are more common
for young people than thatphysical violence ever is, and
so they might not take it asseriously because it's not
physical violence.
Or maybe they just think that'show relationships work.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, and I think a lot of the things that you point
out are really glamorized infilm and pop culture and music
and on social media.
You see a lot of those themesin films, especially about, you
know, boy meets girl, they fallin love, things fall apart,
(20:13):
she's heartbroken, he's angryand this isn't a new concept in
literature or film.
One of the earliest films Iremember watching along those
themes was when I was a youngkid watching Wuthering Heights,
one of the original versions ofWuthering Heights with Laurence
Olivier, and it was so tragic.
(20:35):
He was such a dark, tragicfigure.
But the whole dynamic throughoutthe movie everyone is abusing
everyone else and it's not funny, but it's just so in your face,
right, and it's everywhere andwe all grew up with it and so
we've had to make consciouschoices about what types of
relationships we want to have,what types of boundaries we want
(20:58):
to set.
So let's talk about the homelife of some teenagers.
So if a teen is growing up inan abusive home, that teen may
think teen dating violence isnormal or it might feel normal
to them that's a normal courseof a relationship.
But as an educator, how do youaddress that?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah.
So I know I briefly spoke alittle bit earlier on some of
these dynamics, but I think thatteens who grow up in abusive
households unhealthy behaviorssuch as control, jealousy and
manipulation or even physicalviolence, can feel normal or
even expected.
As prevention educators, wechallenge.
(21:36):
Our challenge, excuse me, is tohelp these teens recognize that
unhealthy, what is unhealthy,and introduce alternate
relationship models and empowerthem to make different choices.
So we approach this by creatinga safe and judgment-free space.
We focus on building trust andlistening without judgment and
encouraging them to feel heardand respected before we offer
(21:59):
them any guidance or connectthem to a trained advocate, and
that we also want to alwaysreinforce that abuse is never at
the fault of the victim or theperson experiencing that harm.
We also work to help themrecognize patterns of abuse
right, because it's not just aone-time thing.
As humans we have typical humanbehavior like jealousy and
(22:21):
anger, but when those behaviorsare occurring as a pattern, as a
continuous act, that's when wecan identify those as unhealthy
and abusive.
So teens who have witnessedthat abuse at home may not see
verbal put downs or extremejealousy as problematic.
So we utilize interactivediscussions to help them
recognize those red flags,teaching those healthy
(22:43):
relationship behaviors.
So not only focusing on what isunhealthy, but what is a
healthy relationship and whatthat should feel like.
So including respect, trust,good communication, support,
moving at a mutual pace and thenalso having fun.
I think that's an aspect ofrelationships that sometimes
teens can forget about thattheir relationship should be fun
(23:05):
and they should enjoy time withtheir partners.
We also empower teens to, youknow, set those boundaries, and
what does that look like?
Or how can I set boundaries?
And that saying no can maybehelp them feel like they have
more control in theirrelationship and that it's okay
to tell somebody no.
Then we also discuss somedifferent coping mechanisms for
(23:27):
dealing with stress and anxiety,because we also know that's a
crisis that our young people arefacing today is high levels of
of stress and anxiety, and then,of course, connecting them with
support systems.
So, like I shared, we do workin a tri-state area, sometimes
even beyond, and so when weprovide programming, we're not
always around, so we want tomake sure that we are connecting
(23:50):
them with local resources.
So if a teen ever disclosesthat they're experiencing
violence at home or in their ownrelationship, we make sure that
we provide them withinformation to their local
advocacy resources and thenencourage healthy friendships,
mentors and school staffconnections so they can have,
hopefully, a sense of safety andbelonging outside of their home
(24:11):
and within their school as well.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You mentioned alternate relationship models
and I'm curious if you can giveus an example of maybe one of
those.
And then also I'm also curiousabout how teens feel or what
feedback you get from them aboutthis type of education.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Sure.
So an alternate relationshipmodel could simply be comparing
and contrasting an unhealthyrelationship to a healthy
relationship, and that I feellike we really focus on that
through storytelling.
So we share Jana's story and wehighlight all of those red
flags that she identified, andthen we can utilize that as a
(24:51):
comparison.
Okay, if you're identifyingthese types of behaviors, it's
more likely to be unhealthy orabusive, right.
But if we're identifying thesetypes of behaviors like respect
and trust and accountability,right.
So self-accountability andtaking responsibility for one's
own action rather than placingthe blame on their partner, and
so that's one way that we dothat.
(25:14):
We actually have great feedbackfrom young people.
I would say the thing thatsticks out the most is, time and
time again, we have studentscome up to us after we provide
our programming and they willshare.
Thank you so much.
I didn't even know I could talkabout these things.
You've given me language to nowknow that I can share how I've
(25:37):
been feeling, what I've beenexperiencing, all of those types
of things.
So we absolutely believe thatteens are change makers, and so
we love to hear that they feellike that's something that we've
given them is the language thatthey can now express and talk
about the experiences thatthey've had.
Yeah, what a powerful gift.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Right, you can start to name feelings or name
experiences.
Then you can really get towhat's happening and maybe how
to resolve it.
Good for you.
I'm so glad to hear that.
Thank you.
Now we're talking aboutdynamics.
That Now we're talking aboutdynamics and teens.
These days, as you mentioned,they have hundreds of platforms
to rise up or rise againstsomething and to create and
(26:18):
recreate themselves in real time.
How does all of this impacttheir idea of dating?
That can lead to violence.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So I focus my perspective on this regarding
the digital age that we are nowliving in.
You know, teens have platformslike Instagram and TikTok and
all these other various things,and I feel like it has
completely transformed how teensview experience and engage in
(26:50):
life, but also in relationships.
I mean, I think it has bothpositive and negative impacts.
Technology allows and I alwaysthink, too, back to the pandemic
and how it was challenging foreveryone, but I think,
especially for teens.
I think it has just totallyshifted how they connect with
others, shifted how they connectwith others.
(27:15):
But you know, technology, theonline platforms allow for
connection, self-expression andeven advocacy for the things
that they're passionate about,Like politics, like you
mentioned.
I think I've seen, or I feellike I've seen, more teens
getting involved in expressingtheir thoughts and opinions on
political aspects.
But I also think that havingthat platform and access to
(27:35):
information and other people cancreate unique risks that can
contribute to unhealthy dynamicsin a relationship.
One constant connectivitythat's something that past
generations didn't have and thatis something that they're
dealing with all the time.
They're constantly online,whether that's through texting,
and they might not have naturalboundaries set up that way.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, and to that point that being able to reach
someone instantly and then theexpectation that they would
respond to you, it equally isyeah.
And it becomes instantgratification isn't really what
I'm trying to describe.
It's that, yeah, and it becomesinstant gratification.
Isn't really what I'm trying todescribe.
It's that like, where were you,Like what you know, having you
at my fingertips at all times,Right.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
For sure.
Yeah, I would you know?
Add to what I mentioned thatthis is something that this is
their norm as well?
This is a social norm for youngpeople.
That this is their norm as well.
This is a social norm for youngpeople.
So, pressure to send intimateor private photos, cyber
bullying, manipulation,threatening posts like if you
really loved me, you'd prove itby doing this type of thing, I
(28:43):
think.
Describing a couple other formsof technology facilitated abuse
monitoring I mentioned that Onething that I have from
providing programs and havingthe opportunity to have real
conversations with young peopleis you know, this texting piece
is something that's alwaysoccurring, but also pressuring
(29:03):
your partner to FaceTime you allthe time or to fall asleep
while FaceTiming together.
Um, oh wow, I hadn't heard ofthat.
Yeah, young people will, in asafe environment.
Young people will share a lotwith you and I think that's I
really love that, because ithelps us make sure that our
programming is relevant andaccurate to the experiences that
(29:25):
they're having.
Another really common thingthat they have shared is the use
of Snapchat and the map theSnap Map that's on Snapchat to
constantly be monitoring, somaybe you don't get an answer
right away from that textmessage, so you pull up Snapchat
and go to the map to see wherethey're at, because you didn't
get that immediate response.
Wow, and so that you know, frommy experience and my
(29:49):
understanding of stalking, thatis considered a stalking
behavior.
I also think that this is uniqueand something that young people
are doing, unfortunately, ismaybe using fake accounts or
asking their friends to followan ex, to keep tabs on them
after they've broken up and toadd a statistic to the sending
(30:12):
explicit photos from thatactivity that I mentioned
earlier that we implement 51% ofstudents that participated say
they or someone they know hassent, received or asked for an
inappropriate or private photo.
So that's you know around 6,000students that we've worked with
that know somebody who has sent, received or asked for an
(30:33):
inappropriate picture, and thenI think, if those pictures are
out there, there's an additionalcoercive and potentially
threatening behavior of you know, if you don't do this, then
I'll share those pictures out.
So, definitely, technologyfacilitated abuse is something
that is occurring often andsomething we are continuously
learning about, because I thinksome of these behaviors are
(30:56):
fairly new and something that Ididn't have to deal with growing
up because the technologywasn't available at that time.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, absolutely, and AI only complicates this
further.
We haven't even touched on thatand how deepfakes are really
destroying people's lives or atleast their mental health.
When it comes to sharing photosand creating photos that aren't
you but look like you, andthat's probably a whole episode
(31:25):
in and of itself.
I agree, I love that teens feelsafe to disclose information in
this type of a forum.
I'm also curious if it empowersthem to speak up on behalf of
others or at least questiontheir peers or talk to their
peers if they suspect thatthey're experiencing some type
(31:48):
of violence, experiencing sometype of violence.
So let's talk about bystandersyndrome or the bystander effect
, and how teen dating violenceis impacted by that.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Sure, I definitely think the bystander effect plays
a significant role in teendating violence.
They're witnessing andexperiencing these behaviors and
I think they might be hesitantto intervene because they might
not recognize it as abuse.
As we discussed earlier,they're fearful of social
consequences, so they're worriedabout losing a friendship or
(32:20):
even getting involved.
Maybe they feel like they don'tknow enough to get involved.
They think somebody else willstep in the typical bystander
effect, or they might feelpowerless because they're unsure
of what to say or what to do.
When we provide our bystanderintervention trainings, I would
say fear of social consequencesor fear of retaliation is what
(32:42):
young people are sharing mostoften as reasons why they're not
stepping in.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah, I think that that could be true of adults too
.
When people don't stand up whenthey witness something that
fear, we're back to that.
We started off the showstalking about fear.
Fear is definitely a reason anda way to silence people, and
silence only helps theperpetrator.
We all know that.
Does the training providelanguage, then, for teens to
(33:10):
talk about abuse that theywitness, either with their peers
or with an adult, if they needto report it?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yes.
So we utilize MVP Mentors inViolence Prevention curriculum
for our bystander interventiontrainings and it encourages the
three Ds of bystanderintervention.
So if they're witnessing orexperiencing these behaviors,
one, they can be direct, so goup and say something to
(33:38):
themselves hey, that's not OK, Idon't like what's going on.
If they're not comfortabledoing that, they can distract,
so change the subject or createa diversion away from the
incident.
They can delegate, so get helpfrom a teacher, a group of peers
, a coach or another trustedadult.
So direct, delegate, distract.
We also encourage them thatfollowing up the next day or
(34:00):
checking in after the fact isstill a form of stepping up and
being an active bystander.
Of course, when we discussthese strategies, we encourage
them.
We discuss these strategies, weencourage them make sure that
they feel safe to be able tostep in and if they don't feel
like they can step in and remainsafe.
Delegation is probably the bestoption and talking to a trusted
(34:22):
adult is probably the best nextstep.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
That's really good advice.
For sure.
It's great advice for even justfor parents to give to their
own children in lots ofdifferent, for lots of different
reasons, not just teen datingviolence.
I know in some school districtsthey have an app where you can
report things like bullying, andI'm curious if there is any
type of companion app thatyou're aware of that works
(34:49):
specifically for teen datingviolence, or if teen dating
violence can be reported even ifit's just suspected can be
reported through, like an applike Stop it, which is used for
bullying.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Right To my knowledge I don't know that there is a
specific one specific to teendating violence.
There is another program or appsimilar to that out of Colorado
, Safe to Tell.
We have been told by schooldistricts that we can provide
the information that if they seeteen dating violence, that can
(35:21):
also be reported through thatportal or that app.
So it doesn't have to bespecifically bullying that's
occurring, they can report anykind of incident.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
That's really good to know, and I also know many
school districts monitor anycommunications as well as
websites and other links thatstudents use on their
district-approved technologydevice.
So if your student has aChromebook, let's say that they
(35:52):
rent or lease from their school,and they type in abbreviations
that are known in the databaseof what different terms mean.
The communication will beflagged by the school and sent
to the counselor, and then aparent will be notified and the
student will be, you know,called for a discussion about
whatever the communication is,and this could be.
(36:14):
It doesn't have to be somethingviolent, even related to teen
dating violence.
It could be something thatcauses concern for the student's
well-being as well as you knowthe fact they could be being
bullied or having a difficultexperience at home, or it could
be anything, and so I think thatthere are additional safety
(36:35):
measures in place within a lotof school districts that are
kind of monitoring what's goingon, and I'm also surprised how
astute many school officialsreally are about what is going
on, like in the interaction, thesocial interaction and in the
physical environment of theschool.
(36:55):
They're usually, in myexperience, really on the pulse.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, and I definitely think districts are
doing a lot of great work.
Of course, there's always morework to be done.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, you can't do everything, and that's why we
need things like Jana's campaignto help round out this.
You unfortunately so manysocial issues that have to be
discussed and educated.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Young people need to be educated on so many social
issues.
One thing that we suggest toschool districts that work with
us is that they have a separateteen dating violence policy.
So a majority of time theseissues are snuck into the
bullying, anti-bullying policy,and while that's you know good,
(37:57):
we think that it can be betterby having a totally separate
policy.
So one for anti-bullying, onefor teen dating.
Violence prevention andeducation.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Smart, that's really smart.
I'm going to go home and lookup the teen dating violence
policy for my local schooldistrict and I'm going to send
you an email and let you knowthat I found it.
Hopefully, when teenagers arespending large amounts of time
in structured environments suchas school or even sports, or
maybe at home, what are someways that the adults in their
(38:28):
lives can prevent youth fromentering in, embracing or
engaging in a violentrelationship?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, I think that's a great question because they're
critical allies right topreventing these issues and we
need adults to play the uniqueroles that they have to educate
and model and intervene to theseunfortunate situations.
So teachers and school staffcan integrate this education
into their curriculums.
(38:55):
We utilize a curriculum by theHazelden Betty Ford Foundation
and that is Safe Dates.
Safe Dates is the name of thecurriculum.
It's a wonderful curriculumthat's easily implemented into
classrooms.
They can also create safe andsupportive cultures within the
classroom and then watch for thewarning signs.
(39:16):
So be educated on what arecommon warning signs, but also
the effects.
So maybe you have a highachieving student that's
starting to disassociate alittle bit in the classroom, not
be as active as they once were,or their grades are dropping,
and so just noticing those smalltypes of behavior changes and
knowing that they can reach outto them and offer support
(39:38):
Because, like we discussed,students may be fearful to talk
to a trusted adult because ofthe potential consequences that
may occur Coaches and mentors, Ithink, can set expectations for
respect and call out any kindof harmful behavior.
We utilize two nationalprograms from Futures Without
Violence, Coaching Boys Into Menand Athletes as Leaders.
(40:01):
Those are curriculums that arevery easy to implement into
sports and athletic programs,Healthcare providers can
normalize conversations aboutrelationships.
So simply asking a question doyou feel safe in your
relationship?
Of course, making sure they askthat when nobody else is in the
(40:22):
room, to make sure that theyfeel comfortable and safe, and
expressing if they do feel safein their relationship, and then
screen for different signs ofabuse.
And then parents and guardiansagain to that activity I
referenced earlier.
88% of teens who haveparticipated in that activity
state that they believe teendating violence is a problem for
(40:44):
young people today, and this isa very outdated statistic.
It's from 2004, so 21 years ago.
But that research showed that81% of parents that were
surveyed either believe teendating violence is not an issue
or they admit that they don'tknow it's an issue.
So there's a very strongdisconnect between young people
saying yes, this is a problemand their parents not being
(41:06):
certain that it is.
So we encourage parents andguardians to talk early and
often have conversations abouthealthy and unhealthy
relationships, consent, digitalsafety, and that should start at
a young age and continue asthey grow up.
And then I also think, modelingrespectful relationships,
because we learn by watchingothers and how adults treat each
(41:29):
other, Show mutual respect andconflict resolution, and I think
it's also okay to say, yeah, Ididn't handle that very well.
Here's how I could have handledthat situation better and being
vulnerable with their youngpeople.
Stay involved as well.
Don't just have a one-timeconversation and then be done.
I think that potentially closesthe door, but if you continue
(41:51):
the conversation, they will knowthat that door is always open
and that they can come and talkto you to educate the community
on these issues but also work tocreate an environment and a
culture that says abuse andviolence is not tolerated.
(42:16):
You know that can be donethrough awareness campaigns,
even parent education nights ordifferent activities to connect
youth with their trusted mentorsin the community.
But when adults are proactiveand engaged, they can start to
recognize those red flags anddevelop healthy relationship
skills with young people.
Teen Dating Balance isn't justabout a one-time intervention.
(42:38):
It's about educating andmodeling and supporting at every
stage of a young person's life.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
So much good advice today.
Thank you so much.
Katie for offering all of thoseideas and all of that
information to us.
Where can people learn moreabout Jana's campaign?
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Well, thank you so much for having me, and I
appreciate the opportunity toshare a little more about Jana
and about our work.
Information about Jana'scampaign can be found at
janascampaignorg.
J-a-n-a-s campaignorg, and wealso have social media accounts
on Facebook, instagram andLinkedIn, so we share
(43:16):
information regularly on thosesocial media sites.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Perfect, thank you.
Thanks so much for listening.
Until next time, stay safe.
The 2025 Conference on CrimesAgainst Women will take place in
Dallas, texas, may 19th throughthe 22nd at the Sheraton Dallas
.
Learn more and register atconferencecaworg and follow us
on social media at National CCAW.
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