April 14, 2025 • 46 mins
What happens when those who save others need saving themselves? Behind the badge, helmet, or uniform lies a harsh reality few civilians understand: our first responders are suffering in silence.
Dr. Heather Twedell (Dr. T), forensic psychologist and founder of F1RST, pulls back the curtain on the devastating toll that repeated trauma takes on police officers, firefighters, paramedics, and dispatchers. With a brother and father in law enforcement, she combines professional expertise with personal understanding to revolutionize how we approach first responder wellness.
The statistics are alarming—first responders experience significantly higher rates of suicide, anxiety, depression, substance abuse, and divorce than the general population. But Dr. T explains why this happens through a fascinating exploration of how trauma physically changes the brain and body. That smell at a restaurant that suddenly triggers a police officer's fight-or-flight response? That's the brain's danger-detection system at work, months after a traumatic call.
Most compelling is Dr. T's innovative approach to healing. F1RST brings together therapists, nutritionists, physical therapists, and even horses to build resilience in our community protectors. The equine therapy program provides immediate feedback on emotional regulation that many participants say brings more awareness than years of traditional therapy.
Perhaps most powerful is Dr. T's insight into how first responder trauma affects entire families through "nervous system synchronization"—where a spouse or child unconsciously absorbs the stress and anxiety the first responder brings home. By including families in the healing process, F1RST addresses the ripple effects of trauma that conventional programs miss.
Want to support the first responders in your life or community? Listen now to understand what they're experiencing and discover practical ways to help those who've dedicated their lives to helping others.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The subject matter of this podcast will address
difficult topics multiple formsof violence, and identity-based
discrimination and harassment.
We acknowledge that thiscontent may be difficult and
have listed specific contentwarnings in each episode
description to help create apositive, safe experience for
all listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In this country, 31 million crimes 31 million crimes
are reported every year.
That is one every second.
Out of that, every 24 minutesthere is a murder.
Every five minutes there is arape.
Every two to five minutes thereis a sexual assault.
Every nine seconds in thiscountry, a woman is assaulted by
someone who told her that heloved her, by someone who told
(00:43):
her it was her fault, by someonewho tries to tell the rest of
us it's none of our business andI am proud to stand here today
with each of you to call thatperpetrator a liar.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Welcome to the podcast on crimes against women.
I'm Maria McMullin.
On the face of it, the role ofthe first responder is to simply
protect and serve.
As modest as that may sound,the job of a first responder
expands much broader and delvesmuch deeper than those two words
suggest.
First responders typically worklong hours with high stress
situations, making split seconddecisions in a position that
(01:16):
comes with high demands fromboth their peers and the public
alike.
Additionally, first respondersare required to remain on the
cutting edge of informationtechnology rules and regulations
, while fighting to not onlyensure other people's safety,
but to keep themselves safe aswell.
Therefore, as one can imagine,the duty of a first responder
can take a huge toll on theirpsychological and physical
(01:39):
well-being.
Although many strides have beenmade, a focus on the mental
health of society's strong isstill oftentimes met with
derision that can put the livesof victims and survivors in
danger and decrease the qualityof life for first responders and
their families.
Today's conversation will bewith Dr Twedell, whose mission
is to dispel the myths andmisconceptions associated with
(02:01):
cognitive therapy andperformance recovery and to
highlight the valuable benefitsof comprehensive wellness for
first responders.
Dr Heather Twedell, aka Dr T, isa forensic psychologist who is
deeply dedicated to providingsupport to first responders and
their families, whilerelentlessly paving a new
standard of wellness for stateand federal agencies.
(02:23):
Her doctorate in forensicpsychology, years of work with
first responders and with abrother and father in law
enforcement, dr T has a strongappreciation and understanding
of the culture and stressorsspecific to this line of work.
As the CEO and founder of FIRST, dr T has developed a
comprehensive wellness programthat fosters preventative action
from departments, the firstresponder and his or her family
(02:46):
members through training,conditioning, wellness checks
and holistic health approaches.
She's also an integral part ofthe R-Watch team providing
equine-assisted resiliencytraining for first responders
and their families with thehealing power of horses.
Dr T is committed in herefforts to ensure first
responders are provided aproactive approach to their
health and well-being topreserve quality of life as they
(03:09):
sacrifice greatly to serveothers.
Dr T, welcome to the show, thankyou.
Thank you so much for having me.
This is a really interestingtopic, something I hadn't
thought much about prior tolearning about the work that you
do, and you're a psychologist.
So, in your field of psychology, what led you to working with
individuals in law enforcementand other service providers?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So I always had a love for just human behavior and
psychology.
I focused on it, obviously, incollege.
But I do come from a family offirst responders.
So, being raised by a policeofficer and a nurse, and then my
brother is also a policeofficer and a nurse, and then my
brother is also a policeofficer and also a vet, my older
brother is a private security,that world is just familiar to
me.
I never thought that I would gointo it, especially in the
(03:56):
capacity of first responderpsychology.
But I think through myeducation paired with my
personal connection to firstresponders, my education paired
with my personal connection tofirst responders, as I continued
to get more education, it justbecame clear of how poorly we
approach the health of firstresponders and it felt more like
a calling of just hey, there'sa path forward here for better
(04:16):
solutions.
And I was able to pull on boththe personal and professional
side to be able to get to thepoint where we're at today with
first that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So was it the experience of the people who are
close to you that are firstresponders that, like most
interest you in this topic.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You know I think I grew up, you know, doing a lot
of ride-alongs with my dad andwhatnot.
But, as most first responderfamily members especially kids
of first responders will know,the parents do a really good job
of trying to protect the familymembers from understanding what
it is exactly that they dealwith day to day.
So I never really knew exactlythe types of traumas my dad and
(04:54):
brother were exposed to.
And then, I think, throughcollege, as I was getting my
bachelor's, you know, traumadidn't really become a thing
until I got into my doctorateprograms, my doctorate's in
forensic psychology, and once Igot through my practicums,
internships, I ended up at LACounty Sheriff's Department as a
postdoc and then eventually alaw enforcement psychologist
(05:16):
opened my eyes to.
I've always respected andappreciated my family members
who serve.
But just truly, a further peekbehind that curtain of
understanding what exactlyhappens to the brain with trauma
, how that shows up in someone'sbody, but more so like what
does that look like when theyget home?
(05:38):
And I think that's where, youknow, just the heart of FIRST
came from is because I just Ihave a love for first responders
, because I have family membersin that space, but just knowing
that they deserve more, givenhow much they sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now we're using the term firstresponder, but that may mean
different things to differentpeople, so let's set it up In
your experience, how do youdefine first responder and how
does that definition help curateyour programming and training?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I think initially, whenstarting the program, you know
we're looking at local, stateand federal agencies.
So thinking of fire, police,ems, corrections dispatchers,
federal agents, really thatpublic servant that is in a high
stress, high trauma exposure,high performance field is where
(06:27):
we focus our programming.
The beauty of the FIRST programis because we take such a
holistic approach to just thehuman being, regardless of what
uniform they're wearing.
FIRST has been able to expandnot only from the FIRST
responder space but also intoprofessional athletes, not only
from the first responder spacebut also into professional
(06:48):
athletes, industrial athletes,teachers, students, and so we've
kind of packaged health in thatway that it can expand to
others.
But our forte and our focus hasalways been the first responder
different fields that I justmentioned.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Got it.
Your organization is calledFIRST and for people listening
who may want to look it up, it'sF number one, rst, which sort
of pays homage to firstresponders but also symbolizes
what you do, which is to put thehealth and wellness of service
providers first.
So tell us how FIRST gotstarted and what sets it apart
(07:20):
from other similar organizations.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, so, as I mentioned, you know, I used to
work for Los Angeles CountySheriff's Department, so I'm
from Southern California, movedto Texas about six years ago,
didn't know anybody, and I knewthat I had this opportunity to
just create something new whenit came to not just my career
but how we approach firstresponder health.
And I knew that I didn't wantto create just a mental health
(07:44):
treatment center, becausethere's already so many great
treatment centers.
For me that still felt a littlereactive and I knew that, again
, coming from the family side ofthings and professional side,
these first responders reallyneed to be better equipped with
skills to endure the type ofunique stressors this job puts
on them.
So that's where I started first, about three and a half, almost
(08:07):
four years ago, started withjust one department and really
understanding what do they havewhen it comes to wellness,
because wellness can be suchthis vague term as can stress,
and I've found that departmentsreally don't know how to package
it and make it tangible fortheir first responders.
So working closely with thatfirst fire department and
starting to build out educationbecause for us it's so big on
(08:31):
before we build out the rest ofthe programming first responders
, if you want them to be healthy, they have to be informed and
what I have found is we do agreat job initially, you know,
in the academy, of getting themphysically ready, but we really
skip over some of the biggestthreats to their quality of life
, which is the mental andemotional health of what they go
through.
So, starting with education withthese departments and then
(08:54):
building more of a holisticapproach to it, and that means
including not just therapistsand psychologists but also
physical therapists and manualtherapists so they understand,
like, how to use exercise, howto prepare their vessel for the
job.
It includes nutritionists,because what they put in their
body absolutely matters,especially getting through long
shifts A research team, exercisephysiologists, performance
(09:17):
coaches really all experts ofhealth around that first
responder and their familymembers.
And so, from that onedepartment building that out
because there's such a need, wequickly went from one department
almost four years ago to fastforward today we now serve over
200 departments, as well as workwith the DEA and the FBI.
Just because, again, I think itspeaks to not only the
(09:40):
negligent or lacking approach tohealth, but also because I
think they're ready, I thinkthat we're done with the whole.
You know it's weak to showemotion or it's weak to say like
, hey, this job's taking a tollon me and my family.
When we try to do that approachor we ask first responders to
white knuckle it, we end up withdevastating statistics, suicide
(10:01):
being one of them.
But beyond suicide, anxiety,depression, divorce rates,
substance use all of those arehigher for first responders in
general population, which showsthat we haven't been approaching
health the right way.
So not only has the program, Ithink, packaged the right way so
departments can havesustainable programming, but I
think these first responders andthe leaders within these
(10:22):
departments are ready, which isvery refreshing and really great
to work with as the programcontinues to grow.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's an incredible scale over four years to have
that many participatingdepartments and organizations,
and it sounds like a veryholistic approach that you've
put together.
What are some of the outcomesyou've seen over the past few
years?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
approach that you've put together.
What are some of the outcomesyou've seen over the past few
years?
Well, I think starting withjust helping people realize that
health doesn't there doesn'thave to be that stigma.
So when we come intodepartments and start with
education, there's always a hugeuptick in therapy requests as
soon as we're done training thatdepartment.
Because I think in the momentof a first responder who maybe
has been doing this type ofcareer for 12 years and has just
(11:07):
been either white knuckling itor feeling like you know, I'm
doing okay, this is one of thosecareers because trauma works
this way.
This is one of those careerswhere it's not just about the
one call.
Most of these responders, it'sthe different calls that just
start to pile up in their filecabinet and then one day they
just it hits their, it hitstheir system.
And so when you educate themwhich what we do, is when we go
(11:31):
into these departments and startwith education, not just from
someone like myself, teachingthem the impact of trauma, but
having our physical therapistsspeak to them and our
nutritionists speak to them.
That really gives them, I think, that starting point to say you
know what?
I could be healthier startingtoday and I have some tools now
on how to do it, but I don'thave to do this alone.
(11:51):
I have a team around me.
So the uptick in these firstresponders reaching out for
therapy, I think, is a greatsign, but also, as we've rolled
out the other more holisticapproaches just you know
learning from departments oflooking at recruitment and
retention how hard it is to keepgood first responders because
sometimes there's a lack ofwellness that once they have
(12:14):
wellness programming, retentionusually goes up, as does
recruitment.
We have seen and one story Ilove is there, you know the new
generation coming forward towant to be first responders.
I don't know if it's becausehealth is just so much more
accepted and talked aboutnowadays, but these younger
first responders value it.
And one of the chiefs wastalking to us saying hey, we're
(12:35):
not the highest payingdepartment out there.
We know we're up against somelocal departments who pay higher
than we do, but in theinterview these questions keep
coming up with what do you dofor the wellness of your first
responders?
And they are seeing some ofthese first responders will take
a lower paying job if they knowthe department has wellness for
(12:56):
them and their families, whichI think that is a huge shift for
this population moving forward.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a very interestingobservation and outcome from the
work that you're doing and Ithink it's really positive as
well.
So FIRST also has a very uniquecomponent that is incorporated
into first responder therapy andthat is an equine program.
How have you found equinetherapy to be beneficial to
(13:24):
first responders?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh my gosh, so I actually.
So Our Watch is the nonprofitthat we've partnered with and I
actually met Our Watch before Istarted first.
So when I first moved to Texasand you know I'm from Southern
California, so I haven't, I'mnot doing a bunch of horseback
riding.
You know I love animals, butwhen I first thought horses and
all this, I'm like this is notgoing to be my strong suit but
(13:50):
it has nothing to do withhorseback riding and there's
actually no horseback riding.
It's all about getting out tothis space and working with
these equine coaches Susan andJerry are the founders, who are
also first responder familymembers, which makes it really
unique.
But understanding that it's allabout connection and trauma
exposure and time away fromfamily members and stress and
(14:12):
policy changes everything thatcomes with first responder
health.
It can create wedges with thepeople who matter the most to
you and we always like to saythat your number one resiliency
tool to get through this careeris to stay connected to the
people that you love, and so ifwe aren't tactful with
connection, which comes with thetrauma exposure piece, you can
(14:33):
really threaten thoserelationships.
So coming out to a ranch notonly being out in nature helps
you return to the connectionwith yourself.
It slows everything down sothat your body can actually
speak up.
Or usually all of us, I think,can get in the mode of just
going through the motions andbulldozing through our days and
we forget that our body's maybetrying to tell us something.
(14:54):
So the connection starts themoment they step out on that
ranch.
But then, when it comes to thehorses, it's all about how to
connect with this large animal.
And horses are herd animals andyou are entering into their
herd and a really cool piece isbecause they're so large, they
don't wanna exert energy if theydon't need to.
So if one member of the herd isdysregulated in any way, the
(15:16):
horses are gonna give feedbackbecause they want them to get
more regulated.
So they're not exerting thatunnecessary energy.
They're reserving that for whenthey need it to either run,
sleep, play, whatever that lookslike.
So when you bring a firstresponder who's dysregulated
into a round pen where it's justthem and a 1200 pound animal
and it might be they becomedysregulated because of the
(15:37):
large animal, or it could bethey were dysregulated before
they got there because they gotin a fight with the spouse on
the way there.
There was a pediatric calledtwo shifts prior that they
haven't really dealt with.
They just didn't sleep the lastthree nights.
Their system's all out of whack.
You put them in a round pen,you put them next to a horse and
that feedback and watching notthe demand, but the messaging
(15:58):
from a horse to a human of hey,let's slow this moment down If
we're going to connect and dothis together is so, so
beautiful to watch, first of all.
But we have had firstresponders out of that space say
what happened in this round pentoday brought more awareness to
what I've been doing with mylife and my relationships than
maybe like three years oftherapy.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Wow, that is brilliant.
I had no idea that was howequine therapy works.
Yes, yes, yes, and I didn'teven think about how effective
it could be for someone who isdysregulated.
I'm glad you shared that withus.
Now are there situations whereequine therapy is the preferred
method over traditional therapy?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I would say I think, just because for me as a
psychologist, because I am inthat room at times, I always
think that when you areapproaching health therapeutic
intervention, keep variety.
Your brain, your system isgoing to respond differently to
different modalities, so Iwouldn't just put everything
into one, I would keep it fresh.
(17:02):
One thing that I loved is whenCOVID hit.
I didn't love when COVID hit,but when COVID hit I loved was
with the social distancing andnot being able to sit with my
first responders in the therapyroom.
I reached out to Jerry andSusan, founders of Our Watch,
and I was like, hey, can I justdo walk and talks and I just
take the responder out there andjust have that space.
(17:24):
And as the person providing thetherapy, what I will say is
what these first responders said.
As far as like the impactgreater in one session versus
years in therapy, I felt thateven as the therapist where
walking and talking with them,watching them talk about a
trauma where maybe they had feltlike it was their fault, and as
(17:45):
the tears are coming and theyare sitting on the grass and
they're just, the sun shines ontheir face and they are
releasing some of that guilt andlike a bird is flying over and
it's almost like you can't makethis stuff up.
It's like nature and that momentand the horses are nearby.
Everything created a safeenough space for the system to
(18:07):
release, and I think sometimesnature and connection with what
this earth provides is so muchmore powerful than what a couch
in a room can provide.
And so, as another human beingin that experience with them, I
would say to any therapist like,switch it up, do walk and talks
, even if you don't have accessto a ranch.
Like, get your people outside,but just understanding that you
(18:29):
know the more creative you arewhen it comes to what someone
might need, that will helptherapy.
Not feel cookie cutter, becauseeveryone's needs are so
different, but what we do knowas human beings, we all are more
regulated when we are able tobe out in nature.
So get outside for your healing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, that's another brilliant idea and I actually
get the chills when you talkabout it because it sounds so
profound and yet so simple tojust do the walk and talk and be
outside.
So because first respondersexperience different forms of
trauma, so they can have primarytrauma or secondary or
vicarious trauma, and often at ahigher rate than a lot of other
(19:08):
professionals.
Help us understand what thattrauma looks like in each
scenario and why it's soprevalent amongst first
responders.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yes.
Well, I think for everyone toremember that trauma isn't just
a moment.
When that moment passes, yourbrain is doing something with
exposure and so we experienceour world through the five
senses, right.
So you have to think about,when I'm at this scene, that
many people will have no idea.
They'll live their whole livesand not know what that sounds
(19:40):
like from a screaming mother, orthe smells or the visual
details or even like the tastein the air when it's happening.
Like many human beings will notexperience that.
But for a first responder, likethat could be a typical Tuesday.
So just alone, the amount ofcalls they go on automatically
increases the level of exposure.
But now, if you think about,the brain is an association
(20:02):
maker.
So now it has just taken maybethat certain smell that was at
that terrible scene and it'sconnected those two things
together and it's put like alittle post-it note on it and
the brain only works with twopost-it notes either safety or
danger, and it could beperceived threats, right.
So it's put this now dangerpost-it note on this.
So now it could be five weekslater and the first responder is
(20:26):
at a restaurant with theirfamily member and maybe they're
thinking like I haven't eventhought about the call.
I'm not having nightmares, Ifeel good.
It was a bad call but we gotthrough it.
And now they're sitting at thisrestaurant and the brain
overgeneralizes all the time, itlikes to take shortcuts for us.
And there's a smell in thatrestaurant that's even somewhat
(20:47):
familiar to the smell five weeksago and your brain's going to
take that in, check the Rolodexand say hold on, we've been here
before, what is this?
And it's going to see thatthere's a danger post-it note
associated and it's going torelease all the same chemicals
into your system that it didwhen you had to get through that
call five weeks ago.
So now you have a firstresponder sitting at a table and
(21:09):
all those chemicals throw youinto fight, flight or freeze and
the primary way they show up asan emotion is anxiety and
irritability.
So now to the family members atthat table.
You know, maybe the kiddospills the milk and the first
responder has like a reallyintense response.
So you see thesedisproportionate responses
during a trigger where thefamily members, if they don't
understand it, they might belike why is daddy so upset?
(21:31):
Or gosh mommy has such a shortfuse, or mommy doesn't like
going to dinner with us, or dadyou know.
And they make these assumptions,not realizing, and maybe if the
first responder hasn't beentrained on what a trigger is,
they don't even know what'shappening in their body.
So that's where information isso key, because trauma can live
in the brain and if it's notprocessed the right way, it can
(21:53):
stay in this high alert, readyfor the next threat to happen.
And until we get that processedand stored in the right way, I
wish we could get rid of thememory.
We can't.
But storing it in the rightplace helps the brain realize
that we can come out of threatmode and back into a more
regulated state.
And that's why, especially, yousee that in the first three days
after an incident and there'sthings that the first responder
(22:16):
can do that can help and hurtthat but if you don't teach them
how to send safety signals backto their body, we're really
leaving trauma as like in thedriver's seat of their life.
Because now there's just trauma, after trauma, after trauma,
and the brain doesn't now knowis this world of mine safe or
dangerous?
And the brain will always erron the side of caution.
Now the brain just thinks thiswhole world is dangerous.
(22:37):
And now the first responder canbarely come out of fight or
flight because the system isconditioned to be ready.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I appreciate you using that example because of
the smell associated with anexperience of trauma, because I
think it's something that, evenif you're not a first responder,
you can relate to that type ofan experience, maybe at least
once in your life, right,absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Because we all experience trauma on a spectrum.
Yes, there are some that areworse than others, but it all
comes back to not comparing it.
It all comes back to like howdid my brain just process that
and how does that make my vesselfeel?
And, more importantly, like howdo I know how to help it when
it gets triggered?
Because even if you've been ina minor car crash, that can feel
(23:24):
very traumatic.
That's a helpless feeling ofsomeone else maybe ran into you
and whatnot, and that'ssomething that any of us could
go through.
And now it's time to get back inthe car and there might be high
anxiety.
There might be high anxietynext time you let somebody else
drive.
And now we have behavior of youknow, I can barely get in the
car or I always have to be theperson to drive.
And people don't realize thatis their brain keeping that
(23:47):
association of that one carwreck as cars, other people
driving, is now associated withdanger, and now they can't be
comfortable in a car.
Well, that's not that's, that'sa slip of quality of life right
there.
And so if we don't teach peoplehow to manage their own traumas
, I think that's where my fieldhas really messed this up, where
we only look at how unprocessedtrauma shows up in someone's
(24:09):
life anxiety, depression,irritability, drinking too much.
Where we've gotten so good atlabeling the manifestation of
unprocessed trauma rather thanjust coming back to the root and
being like what happened towhere the system thinks it's no
longer safe.
And if we target that, that canhelp the brain make a new
association that that momentwasn't safe.
(24:31):
But I have agency to bringsafety back and that can be
incredibly empowering to givethat back to someone who has
been through something helpless.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Absolutely.
Now we're talking a lot aboutthe brain, but how else does all
of this trauma negativelyaffect other areas of the body?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, so I think you know it all starts with the
brain.
That's like you know.
It's it's information center.
But if you take the brain andslice it into these three areas,
I kind of like to call it thislike stress sandwich, where
we're targeting that middle partthat is determining do I need
to be in fight, flight or freeze?
Right Is there a threat or not.
And so once the braindetermines that there is a
(25:10):
threat and it releases thosechemicals.
One of those is cortisol.
That's a stress hormone, right?
So if someone's walking aroundin a chronic state of just fight
or flight, hello chronic stress, hello chronic cortisol, and
that's inflammation in thesystem.
And when you have chroniccortisol and chronic
inflammation, hello suddencardiac arrest, type 2 diabetes,
(25:33):
certain cancers, high bloodpressure, memory fog, and then
everyone's favorite is thecortisol tire which is waking
right around the midsection.
So when we talk about the vesseland how that relates back to
mental health, if you're dealingfirst of all with any of those
medical issues that can be verystressful, all with any of those
(25:53):
medical issues that can be verystressful, and that
helplessness can come back inbecause you can't, you feel like
you're kind of stuck now withthis disease, this medical issue
, and that can really, you know,cause issues when it comes to
depression, anxiety, quality oflife, irritability, and so we
got to keep the vessel healthy.
And if we can't, for firstresponders, we can't prevent the
next trauma.
(26:14):
We know that there's going tobe another one, another one,
there may be 200 plus more aheadof them and their system's
already inflamed.
So that's where.
How do you use food to helpwith anti-inflammatory?
How do you use movement todecrease cortisol in the system?
How do you use breath, work andgrounding to tell the system
(26:34):
that it's time to calm down anddrop those cortisol levels?
So really approaching the vesselfrom those other experts is
only going to help the system.
When it comes to now, thevessel is healthier.
The brain is way more primed tonow look at mindset how you
make decisions way more primed.
To now look at mindset how youmake decisions, how you talk to
(26:56):
yourself.
It's going to be more clear toaccess those things where, if
the system's inflamed, that canabsolutely go up into the brain.
And now we have the brainsinflamed and it's hard to see
light when everything can startto feel dark.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, and it sounds like each person is going to
need an individualized plan toapproach their own well-being.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yes, I think the biggest thing is we always tell
people you know self-awarenessand intentionality.
You have to be self-aware ofwhat is your body telling you,
what are your relationshipstelling you, what does your own
life look like, what iscurrently on your plate when it
comes to stress, like that isyour responsibility, and then,
once you're aware of it, wecan't just sit there and look at
it.
You have to be intentional withmaybe making some shifts or
(27:38):
pivots in your life to gethealthier.
But when it comes to health ingeneral, what we know so much
about the human system, we canoffer these individuals, who all
have different journeys,different paths, different lives
.
We can offer them what we knowabout the human system and that
could work for every single oneof them.
How you breathe when you'restressed, how you ground, how
(27:58):
you move your body we know allof that just down to the human
body, human system.
So we can apply that to yourlife, even though your life
looks different than the nextperson's.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
And I understand that FIRST offers an
interdisciplinary program.
Can you provide a breakdown ofwhat interdisciplinary means as
it relates to your programs andservices, and why is that
important?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yes.
So that comes back to againthat holistic approach.
So finding experts in the fieldof health and wellness in
general and trauma, so havingculturally competent therapists
would be one area, one fieldthat we need to have ready to go
.
Then you need to have thenutritionists who understand
stress and high performance.
(28:39):
Then you need to have thephysical component of injury
mitigation with an injuryprevention and injury recovery,
with physical and manualtherapists, and they have to
understand not just the humansystem with injury, but what
types of injuries do we tend tosee with first responders
because of what is asked oftheir system?
You know, someone in patrolgoing from sitting for four
(29:02):
hours to all of a sudden a highspeed foot pursuit.
That's a lot to ask of the bodyand hello, injuries, even if
you are the most fit person inthe room.
So, really teaching them how towork with those four hours
leading up to the foot pursuit,how do we help them have
mindfulness so that we'rehelping with the injury, because
, again, we can't remove thethreat but we can help them have
(29:24):
tools to implement, even intheir shift.
Exercise physiologists, theresearch team so that's really
what that interdisciplinary teammeans is we all come from
different disciplines, but weare all working together towards
the mission of keeping qualityof life in place.
From all of these angles, we'reaiming from.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, I think that's another brilliant response or
brilliant idea for this type ofapproach for first responders,
because first responders, inaddition to all of this trauma
and the pressure and thelifestyle that they have to live
, they also have a highlethality rate, especially when
it comes to domestic disturbancecalls.
(30:04):
Is there anything preventativethat first responders or the
agencies they work for can dothat would help facilitate
safety and, potentially,reduction of lethality?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yes, I think that's a great question because you know
, being well isn't going tonecessarily buffer you from some
of these very real threats thatyou are responding to.
But what it can do is again itcomes back to that regulation
piece If you have beenpracticing wellness and
regulation and practicing stresstoo, that's a very important
(30:37):
piece, and what I mean by thatis when you practice stress on
your own terms, whether it'sexercising, whether it's cold,
plunging, having difficultconversations, things that make
you uncomfortable when you buildthat window of tolerance for
stress, the system doesn't getas hijacked when stress you
(30:58):
didn't ask for hits your plate.
And if the system isn't gettingas hijacked, then it's not
taking you on such aphysiological high and low,
which could lead to some ofthose medical issues we're
talking about.
So that regulation piece,priming them for that moment
when they show up to a differentcall from a health perspective,
is already going to help them.
But what I would encouragedepartments to do on top of
(31:20):
health and wellness is effectiveinteractions.
So much of the time, becausethe system, I think, is so ready
for the next threat.
What you could have is a systemthat responds first and
sometimes it always comes downto safety.
So you know they're trained todo that piece and that's out of
my lane.
I'll let them do the trainingpiece.
But if you are interacting withsomeone who's also dysregulated
(31:43):
, having the skills on how tode-escalate a situation and the
skills on how to make sure yourpartner is a little bit more
regulated before we show up andwe know we're going into
something intense so that wedon't have survival mode of the
brain having a very reactivesystem and now we either might
make a mistake, excessive use offorce, we might not think as
(32:07):
clearly because we're notthinking during trauma exposure.
We're surviving it.
Because we're not thinkingduring trauma exposure, we're
surviving it.
But if the system hasn'tpracticed that and doesn't know
how to regulate or, to use theirwords, how to deescalate
someone in front of them with aweapon, that's a skill set that
has to be.
It's just as important as then,maybe, how to make the arrest
or fire the weapon.
(32:27):
Is that kind of spot rightbefore things maybe get bad or
get lethal is how could we havede-escalated this with
additional skills training.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, I love that you point out that we should
practice stress.
We should have situations wherewe are uncomfortable.
We probably do every day and wedon't even know that we're
intentionally practicing stress,but learning to manage it can
definitely lead to betterreactions or responses when
(32:57):
something comes our way.
So thank you for including thatinformation for us.
We've talked a lot about thefirst responder, the person who
is in this line of work.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout their relatives, because
your organization also includesa wellness program for relatives
(33:18):
of first responders.
What is the motivation forincluding them in the process?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I think, like we spoke about before, connection
is key, and I think we all canrelate to this that when your
home life is healthier and moreregulated, that's going to
translate to how you show up atwork and vice versa, right, and
so, while we may not always beable to change the personalities
they work with or the leadersthey work under, or the policy
(33:45):
changes and policies they haveto deal with, that can possibly
follow them home.
And now you know we'redisplacing some of that
frustration that belongs at workon the family members.
We can't always change thatpart.
We can teach them how to bufferthat piece, but we can work
from the opposite side, wherethe things that we can control
is how you spend time with yourfamily members, how you resolve
(34:08):
conflict when there's conflictwith your family members, how to
hold space for your familymembers, and what I mean by that
there's a few things with thisis when you have someone who is
responding, like I said, to thatcall on a Tuesday and like
that's their Tuesday and that'sfirst responder terrible call
Tuesday.
And they come home and theirspouse has had a Tuesday too,
(34:29):
but their Tuesday is like righthere, right, we see this all the
time where all I have to do isshow the first responder this
and say what might happen whenthere's this gap and the first
responder an honest one isalways going to say, oh, I'm
going to minimize their stress.
I'm going to look at theirstress and be like are you
kidding me?
That's what you're upset about.
You have no idea.
(34:50):
You should have seen what I hadto deal with.
And when you have a high stressjob in a relationship that can
become almost this competitionof whose stress is worse, right,
and that will dividerelationships very quickly.
Because the next question I askis okay, if we're constantly
doing this and looking down atthis other relationship, saying,
(35:12):
really, is that what you'restressed about?
What message are you sendingthem?
You're sending the message thateither their stress isn't
important, their pains don'tmatter, their victories aren't
as great, and what?
happens when any of us feel thatway, why would we share anymore
?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, it's very diminishing.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, it's very diminishing.
Yeah, it's very diminishing.
I'm going to shut down, I'mgoing to stop sharing or I'm
going to go share it with otherpeople who make me actually feel
valued in that.
And so the first responderdidn't intentionally push a
loved one away, but because ofthis high stress exposure and
this dynamic of well, who'sstress is worse or better, it
can create a very terrible wedge.
So it's really teaching them.
(35:50):
First of all, it's not aboutbetter or worse, it's their
stress is different than yours.
They didn't sign up for thistype of job, right?
But that doesn't mean that theydon't deserve to have their
stress held for them.
So if the first responder isdysregulated after that Tuesday,
call how to regulate when theyget back to the station, how to
regulate on the way home, how toregulate in the driveway, so
regulate when they get back tothe station, how to regulate on
(36:12):
the way home, how to regulate inthe driveway, so that when they
show up, both of their needscan be expressed and the
question can then be hey, I seeyou, what do you need from me,
rather than what's your problem?
And because the two questionscan be have very different
responses, so teaching themabout just the difference in
stress, but also teaching themthat there is very much a thing
called nervous systemsynchronization when we are
(36:32):
connected to people that we love, especially living with people
that we love our systems sync upwith theirs.
So if you are anxious and ifanyone's listening, like if
you've ever lived with someonewho has like high anxiety and
like we're always late and we'regoing and everything's this and
that, and there's worst casescenario, like you step out of
that household and you can feelthe anxiety in your body and
(36:53):
next thing you know like you'redoing this with the people at
work or with your friends orwith your kiddos.
So our systems sync up withthose that we love.
Same thing if someone you livewith is really depressed and
they can't get out of the bedand it's going on like a week or
two weeks and you can feel theheaviness in that house, well,
that's also in your body.
So you leave that household andnow you go to work or to a
(37:17):
meeting or to a play date orwherever you're going, and you
just feel this like lull.
It's because you're synced upwith your loved ones.
So, teaching family members hey, as a first responder family,
you are already going to be upagainst very different type of
stressors than a non-firstresponder family.
Or hey, as a first respondercouple, don't be comparing
yourself to non-first respondercouples, because your stress is
(37:39):
different, even just from thephysiological standpoint.
So that means we can't just askthe family to white knuckle it.
They have to be informed, theyhave to be prepared.
They have to be informed, theyhave to be prepared, they have
to have skills, as if we don'task them to sacrifice enough,
they have to work even harder tokeep their connection in place
because they're up againsttrauma and high stress which can
(38:00):
create such wedges inrelationships, and that's why we
see the divorce rates so high.
The kiddo piece is reallyimportant to us as well.
We've partnered with the FirstResponder Children's Foundation,
which is an incrediblenonprofit, and through that
relationship we are able toextend free therapy sessions to
the kiddos of first responders,and kiddo is from zero to 25.
(38:22):
They also do scholarships.
They cover some of ourworkshops.
So when we do family workshopsor workshops for just the kids
or just the teens, we do avirtual just teenagers, because
that's hard too.
It's just really beautiful towatch them, you know, make meals
together with the nutritionist,move their bodies, with the
performance coaches teachingthem how to use belly breaths
(38:45):
when they have big emotions, andthen they come in and
demonstrate it in front of momand dad.
All of those things that arehappening in one of our
workshops can hopefully followthem home and now they can
implement those same skills tohelp again buffer them against
that tidal wave of stress that'sgoing to hit this family.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
So, in comparison, buy-in from first responders
versus buy-in from their familymembers, how does that sync up?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yes, I love this piece because I love doing
couples workshops.
I mean, I love all the work thatI do, but I just think that it
just adds such a fun layer whenyou have a couple who knows each
other and can call each otherout and you have like 10 of
these couples in one room, notonly connecting the thread
between all of them of yes,they're all different
(39:29):
relationships but they do sharethis common bond of being a
first responder couple.
And I always love sometimeshearing you know, the first
responders say you know my, mywife pulled me to this.
Or my spouse said I had to cometo this.
But then once they get thereand they realize that it's not a
kumbaya group therapy sessionand this is actually very real
(39:50):
talk with actualsolution-focused techniques that
they can start deploying.
You then hear from the firstresponder of I'm so glad I came,
and then what we hear from thespouse is I wish I would have
known All of our couples'workshops.
I will say there's always onespouse that comes up to me and
here she says this would havebeen helpful, like 15 years ago.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
It's 15 years ago.
I thought that it's because Iwas doing something wrong, or he
was no longer attracted to me,or I was just a burden in his
life, or he didn't like cominghome to me and the kids anymore.
And if you think about thatnarrative, as a trauma focused
specialist I always say like yes, trauma rattles people.
But what I think rattles themmore is when they don't
understand the impact of trauma,the narrative that they've told
(40:37):
themselves.
Because now for 15 years thatspouse has maybe had this
narrative about who he or she isin their relationship and we
could have gotten ahead of that.
We could have saved 15 years ofnot only a narrative, but every
narrative has a behavioralresponse.
They might have been actingdifferent, showing up different,
not speaking up when theyshould have, not expressing
(40:57):
their needs, coping in unhealthyways, like we could have saved
15 years of that.
But that's why it's soimportant for every department
do not leave family members out.
They are part of your tool tokeep your first responder
healthy.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's so insightful.
This has all been so helpful.
Let's talk about buy-in then,from the department level.
I know you've scaled thisprogram dramatically over the
past several years.
What does it take to get adepartment to say, yeah, we want
to implement that.
And then who pays for all ofthis?
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, that's it.
Budget is always a roadblock,right, but I believe it's a
roadblock because we have notbeen.
We didn't have enough of theknowledge about the impact of
the job to say, hey, we need aseparate budget for wellness.
You know we have a budget forthe equipment for this training,
like we needed a separatebudget for that.
You know we have a budget forthe equipment for this training,
like we needed a separatebudget for that.
(41:51):
So when I first started, firstone thing I had learned pretty
quickly was I didn't want tofunction off of a grant, because
I think it's amazing that thereare grants.
There's a ton of money outthere and I'm going to talk
about how you should go afterthat money, but what I have
found is, when a department usesa grant, grants can stop.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
And this is about sustainable programming.
I believe that when we go thegrant route, it takes some of
the responsibility not only offof the department, but off of
the city.
And now we are letting a grantfund wellness, and now it's just
stopped and you just gave yourpeople a feel of, hey, we're
going to start treating youdifferent, we're going to start
resourcing this out, we're goingto take care of you and your
(42:32):
family members.
Money stops and that messagestops with it.
So we like to go not only afterthe decision makers, like the
chiefs and getting peercoordinators involved and really
the leaders in the department.
We also like to sit down withcity managers, city HR, helping
educate them on how this job isdifferent and that there should
(42:55):
be budgeting for it.
And we have found that somecities will create the wellness
budget for the department andthen it's up to the department
hey, next year, budgetdifferently so that your
wellness budget can come nowfrom within the department
rather than on the city.
Some cities continue to givethem budgeting.
So it's really starting withwhere do we want to place the
(43:16):
level of responsibility?
And I think the level ofresponsibility shouldn't be on
some external you know.
Hey, thanks for the cash itshould really be.
How do we want this culture tobe different so that we can take
care of our current firstresponders and the next waves of
generations coming through?
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, and that's just a shift in priorities, right?
Yes, prioritizing health andwellness and safety for the
people who are protecting andsaving lives through
firefighting and all other typesof organizations throughout a
city.
Where can people learn moreabout FIRST?
What's your website?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
learn more about FIRST.
What's your website?
Our website is wwwfirstf1rstorg, and through our website you
can send in anonymous inquiries,you can find out how to set up
trainings, you can send in arequest for therapy.
All of that can be done throughthe website.
We also are on different socialmedia platforms.
On Instagram and Facebookthere's a Dr T page and then
also a first page I believe mineis drtfirst for Instagram and I
(44:20):
like to do helpful techniques,videos, posts behind the scenes,
upcoming events.
It's a little bit more personal, and then we have the first one
as well.
One other thing that I will sayto maybe there is a city
manager listening or a chief.
I think the old ways of healthand wellness for the department
was, you know, eap, and if afirst responder is listening,
(44:42):
they might have like an initialnegative response to oh, eap.
Because, what has happened isthe city would make EAP for all
city employees, find thesetherapists and then expect the
first responders to go see thosetherapists.
But some of those therapistsare not trauma-informed.
They don't understand theculture.
You have to understand theunique demands on these first
(45:03):
responders Because what wouldhappen is first responders would
say I spent the first fivesessions telling my therapist
about what it is that I do and Ispent the first five sessions
telling my therapist about whatit is that I do and I missed
those first five sessions tojust get to healing.
So first, as a result, we nowserve the whole city.
So we've created EAP andprogramming that can be put out
to citywide employees.
But we've started with thefirst responder program.
(45:24):
So now we know first responderdepartments have specialized
care and that samespecialization can go to the
city, rather than gettingnon-specialized care and
expecting it to go up to aspecialized area if that makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, got it Perfect.
Thank you so much for being onthe show and providing this
insightful information.
It's outstanding.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Thank you so much.
I just appreciate what you guysdo.
You know.
I think, like I said, ourbiggest thing is education, and
knowledge is power, and when youhave a podcast like this and
you hold space for people whocan listen and maybe it relates
to them or a family member Ijust think that's how we're
going to continue the impact andyou know, you'll never
(46:06):
understand how many people youreach through things like
podcasts.
So thank you, guys for what youdo as well.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Absolutely, thank you .
Thanks so much for listening.
Until next time, stay safe.
The 2025 Conference on CrimesAgainst Women will take place in
Dallas, texas, may 19th throughthe 22nd at the Sheraton Dallas
.
Learn more and register atconferencecaworg and follow us
on social media at National CCAW.
The subject matter of this podcast will address
difficult topics multiple formsof violence, and identity-based
discrimination and harassment.
We acknowledge that thiscontent may be difficult and
have listed specific contentwarnings in each episode
description to help create apositive, safe experience for
all listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In this country, 31 million crimes 31 million crimes
are reported every year.
That is one every second.
Out of that, every 24 minutesthere is a murder.
Every five minutes there is arape.
Every two to five minutes thereis a sexual assault.
Every nine seconds in thiscountry, a woman is assaulted by
someone who told her that heloved her, by someone who told
(00:43):
her it was her fault, by someonewho tries to tell the rest of
us it's none of our business andI am proud to stand here today
with each of you to call thatperpetrator a liar.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Welcome to the podcast on crimes against women.
I'm Maria McMullin.
On the face of it, the role ofthe first responder is to simply
protect and serve.
As modest as that may sound,the job of a first responder
expands much broader and delvesmuch deeper than those two words
suggest.
First responders typically worklong hours with high stress
situations, making split seconddecisions in a position that
(01:16):
comes with high demands fromboth their peers and the public
alike.
Additionally, first respondersare required to remain on the
cutting edge of informationtechnology rules and regulations
, while fighting to not onlyensure other people's safety,
but to keep themselves safe aswell.
Therefore, as one can imagine,the duty of a first responder
can take a huge toll on theirpsychological and physical
(01:39):
well-being.
Although many strides have beenmade, a focus on the mental
health of society's strong isstill oftentimes met with
derision that can put the livesof victims and survivors in
danger and decrease the qualityof life for first responders and
their families.
Today's conversation will bewith Dr Twedell, whose mission
is to dispel the myths andmisconceptions associated with
(02:01):
cognitive therapy andperformance recovery and to
highlight the valuable benefitsof comprehensive wellness for
first responders.
Dr Heather Twedell, aka Dr T, isa forensic psychologist who is
deeply dedicated to providingsupport to first responders and
their families, whilerelentlessly paving a new
standard of wellness for stateand federal agencies.
(02:23):
Her doctorate in forensicpsychology, years of work with
first responders and with abrother and father in law
enforcement, dr T has a strongappreciation and understanding
of the culture and stressorsspecific to this line of work.
As the CEO and founder of FIRST, dr T has developed a
comprehensive wellness programthat fosters preventative action
from departments, the firstresponder and his or her family
(02:46):
members through training,conditioning, wellness checks
and holistic health approaches.
She's also an integral part ofthe R-Watch team providing
equine-assisted resiliencytraining for first responders
and their families with thehealing power of horses.
Dr T is committed in herefforts to ensure first
responders are provided aproactive approach to their
health and well-being topreserve quality of life as they
(03:09):
sacrifice greatly to serveothers.
Dr T, welcome to the show, thankyou.
Thank you so much for having me.
This is a really interestingtopic, something I hadn't
thought much about prior tolearning about the work that you
do, and you're a psychologist.
So, in your field of psychology, what led you to working with
individuals in law enforcementand other service providers?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So I always had a love for just human behavior and
psychology.
I focused on it, obviously, incollege.
But I do come from a family offirst responders.
So, being raised by a policeofficer and a nurse, and then my
brother is also a policeofficer and a nurse, and then my
brother is also a policeofficer and also a vet, my older
brother is a private security,that world is just familiar to
me.
I never thought that I would gointo it, especially in the
(03:56):
capacity of first responderpsychology.
But I think through myeducation paired with my
personal connection to firstresponders, my education paired
with my personal connection tofirst responders, as I continued
to get more education, it justbecame clear of how poorly we
approach the health of firstresponders and it felt more like
a calling of just hey, there'sa path forward here for better
(04:16):
solutions.
And I was able to pull on boththe personal and professional
side to be able to get to thepoint where we're at today with
first that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So was it the experience of the people who are
close to you that are firstresponders that, like most
interest you in this topic.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You know I think I grew up, you know, doing a lot
of ride-alongs with my dad andwhatnot.
But, as most first responderfamily members especially kids
of first responders will know,the parents do a really good job
of trying to protect the familymembers from understanding what
it is exactly that they dealwith day to day.
So I never really knew exactlythe types of traumas my dad and
(04:54):
brother were exposed to.
And then, I think, throughcollege, as I was getting my
bachelor's, you know, traumadidn't really become a thing
until I got into my doctorateprograms, my doctorate's in
forensic psychology, and once Igot through my practicums,
internships, I ended up at LACounty Sheriff's Department as a
postdoc and then eventually alaw enforcement psychologist
(05:16):
opened my eyes to.
I've always respected andappreciated my family members
who serve.
But just truly, a further peekbehind that curtain of
understanding what exactlyhappens to the brain with trauma
, how that shows up in someone'sbody, but more so like what
does that look like when theyget home?
(05:38):
And I think that's where, youknow, just the heart of FIRST
came from is because I just Ihave a love for first responders
, because I have family membersin that space, but just knowing
that they deserve more, givenhow much they sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Now we're using the term firstresponder, but that may mean
different things to differentpeople, so let's set it up In
your experience, how do youdefine first responder and how
does that definition help curateyour programming and training?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I think initially, whenstarting the program, you know
we're looking at local, stateand federal agencies.
So thinking of fire, police,ems, corrections dispatchers,
federal agents, really thatpublic servant that is in a high
stress, high trauma exposure,high performance field is where
(06:27):
we focus our programming.
The beauty of the FIRST programis because we take such a
holistic approach to just thehuman being, regardless of what
uniform they're wearing.
FIRST has been able to expandnot only from the FIRST
responder space but also intoprofessional athletes, not only
from the first responder spacebut also into professional
(06:48):
athletes, industrial athletes,teachers, students, and so we've
kind of packaged health in thatway that it can expand to
others.
But our forte and our focus hasalways been the first responder
different fields that I justmentioned.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Got it.
Your organization is calledFIRST and for people listening
who may want to look it up, it'sF number one, rst, which sort
of pays homage to firstresponders but also symbolizes
what you do, which is to put thehealth and wellness of service
providers first.
So tell us how FIRST gotstarted and what sets it apart
(07:20):
from other similar organizations.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, so, as I mentioned, you know, I used to
work for Los Angeles CountySheriff's Department, so I'm
from Southern California, movedto Texas about six years ago,
didn't know anybody, and I knewthat I had this opportunity to
just create something new whenit came to not just my career
but how we approach firstresponder health.
And I knew that I didn't wantto create just a mental health
(07:44):
treatment center, becausethere's already so many great
treatment centers.
For me that still felt a littlereactive and I knew that, again
, coming from the family side ofthings and professional side,
these first responders reallyneed to be better equipped with
skills to endure the type ofunique stressors this job puts
on them.
So that's where I started first, about three and a half, almost
(08:07):
four years ago, started withjust one department and really
understanding what do they havewhen it comes to wellness,
because wellness can be suchthis vague term as can stress,
and I've found that departmentsreally don't know how to package
it and make it tangible fortheir first responders.
So working closely with thatfirst fire department and
starting to build out educationbecause for us it's so big on
(08:31):
before we build out the rest ofthe programming first responders
, if you want them to be healthy, they have to be informed and
what I have found is we do agreat job initially, you know,
in the academy, of getting themphysically ready, but we really
skip over some of the biggestthreats to their quality of life
, which is the mental andemotional health of what they go
through.
So, starting with education withthese departments and then
(08:54):
building more of a holisticapproach to it, and that means
including not just therapistsand psychologists but also
physical therapists and manualtherapists so they understand,
like, how to use exercise, howto prepare their vessel for the
job.
It includes nutritionists,because what they put in their
body absolutely matters,especially getting through long
shifts A research team, exercisephysiologists, performance
(09:17):
coaches really all experts ofhealth around that first
responder and their familymembers.
And so, from that onedepartment building that out
because there's such a need, wequickly went from one department
almost four years ago to fastforward today we now serve over
200 departments, as well as workwith the DEA and the FBI.
Just because, again, I think itspeaks to not only the
(09:40):
negligent or lacking approach tohealth, but also because I
think they're ready, I thinkthat we're done with the whole.
You know it's weak to showemotion or it's weak to say like
, hey, this job's taking a tollon me and my family.
When we try to do that approachor we ask first responders to
white knuckle it, we end up withdevastating statistics, suicide
(10:01):
being one of them.
But beyond suicide, anxiety,depression, divorce rates,
substance use all of those arehigher for first responders in
general population, which showsthat we haven't been approaching
health the right way.
So not only has the program, Ithink, packaged the right way so
departments can havesustainable programming, but I
think these first responders andthe leaders within these
(10:22):
departments are ready, which isvery refreshing and really great
to work with as the programcontinues to grow.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
That's an incredible scale over four years to have
that many participatingdepartments and organizations,
and it sounds like a veryholistic approach that you've
put together.
What are some of the outcomesyou've seen over the past few
years?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
approach that you've put together.
What are some of the outcomesyou've seen over the past few
years?
Well, I think starting withjust helping people realize that
health doesn't there doesn'thave to be that stigma.
So when we come intodepartments and start with
education, there's always a hugeuptick in therapy requests as
soon as we're done training thatdepartment.
Because I think in the momentof a first responder who maybe
has been doing this type ofcareer for 12 years and has just
(11:07):
been either white knuckling itor feeling like you know, I'm
doing okay, this is one of thosecareers because trauma works
this way.
This is one of those careerswhere it's not just about the
one call.
Most of these responders, it'sthe different calls that just
start to pile up in their filecabinet and then one day they
just it hits their, it hitstheir system.
And so when you educate themwhich what we do, is when we go
(11:31):
into these departments and startwith education, not just from
someone like myself, teachingthem the impact of trauma, but
having our physical therapistsspeak to them and our
nutritionists speak to them.
That really gives them, I think, that starting point to say you
know what?
I could be healthier startingtoday and I have some tools now
on how to do it, but I don'thave to do this alone.
(11:51):
I have a team around me.
So the uptick in these firstresponders reaching out for
therapy, I think, is a greatsign, but also, as we've rolled
out the other more holisticapproaches just you know
learning from departments oflooking at recruitment and
retention how hard it is to keepgood first responders because
sometimes there's a lack ofwellness that once they have
(12:14):
wellness programming, retentionusually goes up, as does
recruitment.
We have seen and one story Ilove is there, you know the new
generation coming forward towant to be first responders.
I don't know if it's becausehealth is just so much more
accepted and talked aboutnowadays, but these younger
first responders value it.
And one of the chiefs wastalking to us saying hey, we're
(12:35):
not the highest payingdepartment out there.
We know we're up against somelocal departments who pay higher
than we do, but in theinterview these questions keep
coming up with what do you dofor the wellness of your first
responders?
And they are seeing some ofthese first responders will take
a lower paying job if they knowthe department has wellness for
(12:56):
them and their families, whichI think that is a huge shift for
this population moving forward.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a very interestingobservation and outcome from the
work that you're doing and Ithink it's really positive as
well.
So FIRST also has a very uniquecomponent that is incorporated
into first responder therapy andthat is an equine program.
How have you found equinetherapy to be beneficial to
(13:24):
first responders?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh my gosh, so I actually.
So Our Watch is the nonprofitthat we've partnered with and I
actually met Our Watch before Istarted first.
So when I first moved to Texasand you know I'm from Southern
California, so I haven't, I'mnot doing a bunch of horseback
riding.
You know I love animals, butwhen I first thought horses and
all this, I'm like this is notgoing to be my strong suit but
(13:50):
it has nothing to do withhorseback riding and there's
actually no horseback riding.
It's all about getting out tothis space and working with
these equine coaches Susan andJerry are the founders, who are
also first responder familymembers, which makes it really
unique.
But understanding that it's allabout connection and trauma
exposure and time away fromfamily members and stress and
(14:12):
policy changes everything thatcomes with first responder
health.
It can create wedges with thepeople who matter the most to
you and we always like to saythat your number one resiliency
tool to get through this careeris to stay connected to the
people that you love, and so ifwe aren't tactful with
connection, which comes with thetrauma exposure piece, you can
(14:33):
really threaten thoserelationships.
So coming out to a ranch notonly being out in nature helps
you return to the connectionwith yourself.
It slows everything down sothat your body can actually
speak up.
Or usually all of us, I think,can get in the mode of just
going through the motions andbulldozing through our days and
we forget that our body's maybetrying to tell us something.
(14:54):
So the connection starts themoment they step out on that
ranch.
But then, when it comes to thehorses, it's all about how to
connect with this large animal.
And horses are herd animals andyou are entering into their
herd and a really cool piece isbecause they're so large, they
don't wanna exert energy if theydon't need to.
So if one member of the herd isdysregulated in any way, the
(15:16):
horses are gonna give feedbackbecause they want them to get
more regulated.
So they're not exerting thatunnecessary energy.
They're reserving that for whenthey need it to either run,
sleep, play, whatever that lookslike.
So when you bring a firstresponder who's dysregulated
into a round pen where it's justthem and a 1200 pound animal
and it might be they becomedysregulated because of the
(15:37):
large animal, or it could bethey were dysregulated before
they got there because they gotin a fight with the spouse on
the way there.
There was a pediatric calledtwo shifts prior that they
haven't really dealt with.
They just didn't sleep the lastthree nights.
Their system's all out of whack.
You put them in a round pen,you put them next to a horse and
that feedback and watching notthe demand, but the messaging
(15:58):
from a horse to a human of hey,let's slow this moment down If
we're going to connect and dothis together is so, so
beautiful to watch, first of all.
But we have had firstresponders out of that space say
what happened in this round pentoday brought more awareness to
what I've been doing with mylife and my relationships than
maybe like three years oftherapy.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Wow, that is brilliant.
I had no idea that was howequine therapy works.
Yes, yes, yes, and I didn'teven think about how effective
it could be for someone who isdysregulated.
I'm glad you shared that withus.
Now are there situations whereequine therapy is the preferred
method over traditional therapy?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I would say I think, just because for me as a
psychologist, because I am inthat room at times, I always
think that when you areapproaching health therapeutic
intervention, keep variety.
Your brain, your system isgoing to respond differently to
different modalities, so Iwouldn't just put everything
into one, I would keep it fresh.
(17:02):
One thing that I loved is whenCOVID hit.
I didn't love when COVID hit,but when COVID hit I loved was
with the social distancing andnot being able to sit with my
first responders in the therapyroom.
I reached out to Jerry andSusan, founders of Our Watch,
and I was like, hey, can I justdo walk and talks and I just
take the responder out there andjust have that space.
(17:24):
And as the person providing thetherapy, what I will say is
what these first responders said.
As far as like the impactgreater in one session versus
years in therapy, I felt thateven as the therapist where
walking and talking with them,watching them talk about a
trauma where maybe they had feltlike it was their fault, and as
(17:45):
the tears are coming and theyare sitting on the grass and
they're just, the sun shines ontheir face and they are
releasing some of that guilt andlike a bird is flying over and
it's almost like you can't makethis stuff up.
It's like nature and that momentand the horses are nearby.
Everything created a safeenough space for the system to
(18:07):
release, and I think sometimesnature and connection with what
this earth provides is so muchmore powerful than what a couch
in a room can provide.
And so, as another human beingin that experience with them, I
would say to any therapist like,switch it up, do walk and talks
, even if you don't have accessto a ranch.
Like, get your people outside,but just understanding that you
(18:29):
know the more creative you arewhen it comes to what someone
might need, that will helptherapy.
Not feel cookie cutter, becauseeveryone's needs are so
different, but what we do knowas human beings, we all are more
regulated when we are able tobe out in nature.
So get outside for your healing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, that's another brilliant idea and I actually
get the chills when you talkabout it because it sounds so
profound and yet so simple tojust do the walk and talk and be
outside.
So because first respondersexperience different forms of
trauma, so they can have primarytrauma or secondary or
vicarious trauma, and often at ahigher rate than a lot of other
(19:08):
professionals.
Help us understand what thattrauma looks like in each
scenario and why it's soprevalent amongst first
responders.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yes.
Well, I think for everyone toremember that trauma isn't just
a moment.
When that moment passes, yourbrain is doing something with
exposure and so we experienceour world through the five
senses, right.
So you have to think about,when I'm at this scene, that
many people will have no idea.
They'll live their whole livesand not know what that sounds
(19:40):
like from a screaming mother, orthe smells or the visual
details or even like the tastein the air when it's happening.
Like many human beings will notexperience that.
But for a first responder, likethat could be a typical Tuesday.
So just alone, the amount ofcalls they go on automatically
increases the level of exposure.
But now, if you think about,the brain is an association
(20:02):
maker.
So now it has just taken maybethat certain smell that was at
that terrible scene and it'sconnected those two things
together and it's put like alittle post-it note on it and
the brain only works with twopost-it notes either safety or
danger, and it could beperceived threats, right.
So it's put this now dangerpost-it note on this.
So now it could be five weekslater and the first responder is
(20:26):
at a restaurant with theirfamily member and maybe they're
thinking like I haven't eventhought about the call.
I'm not having nightmares, Ifeel good.
It was a bad call but we gotthrough it.
And now they're sitting at thisrestaurant and the brain
overgeneralizes all the time, itlikes to take shortcuts for us.
And there's a smell in thatrestaurant that's even somewhat
(20:47):
familiar to the smell five weeksago and your brain's going to
take that in, check the Rolodexand say hold on, we've been here
before, what is this?
And it's going to see thatthere's a danger post-it note
associated and it's going torelease all the same chemicals
into your system that it didwhen you had to get through that
call five weeks ago.
So now you have a firstresponder sitting at a table and
(21:09):
all those chemicals throw youinto fight, flight or freeze and
the primary way they show up asan emotion is anxiety and
irritability.
So now to the family members atthat table.
You know, maybe the kiddospills the milk and the first
responder has like a reallyintense response.
So you see thesedisproportionate responses
during a trigger where thefamily members, if they don't
understand it, they might belike why is daddy so upset?
(21:31):
Or gosh mommy has such a shortfuse, or mommy doesn't like
going to dinner with us, or dadyou know.
And they make these assumptions,not realizing, and maybe if the
first responder hasn't beentrained on what a trigger is,
they don't even know what'shappening in their body.
So that's where information isso key, because trauma can live
in the brain and if it's notprocessed the right way, it can
(21:53):
stay in this high alert, readyfor the next threat to happen.
And until we get that processedand stored in the right way, I
wish we could get rid of thememory.
We can't.
But storing it in the rightplace helps the brain realize
that we can come out of threatmode and back into a more
regulated state.
And that's why, especially, yousee that in the first three days
after an incident and there'sthings that the first responder
(22:16):
can do that can help and hurtthat but if you don't teach them
how to send safety signals backto their body, we're really
leaving trauma as like in thedriver's seat of their life.
Because now there's just trauma, after trauma, after trauma,
and the brain doesn't now knowis this world of mine safe or
dangerous?
And the brain will always erron the side of caution.
Now the brain just thinks thiswhole world is dangerous.
(22:37):
And now the first responder canbarely come out of fight or
flight because the system isconditioned to be ready.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I appreciate you using that example because of
the smell associated with anexperience of trauma, because I
think it's something that, evenif you're not a first responder,
you can relate to that type ofan experience, maybe at least
once in your life, right,absolutely.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Because we all experience trauma on a spectrum.
Yes, there are some that areworse than others, but it all
comes back to not comparing it.
It all comes back to like howdid my brain just process that
and how does that make my vesselfeel?
And, more importantly, like howdo I know how to help it when
it gets triggered?
Because even if you've been ina minor car crash, that can feel
(23:24):
very traumatic.
That's a helpless feeling ofsomeone else maybe ran into you
and whatnot, and that'ssomething that any of us could
go through.
And now it's time to get back inthe car and there might be high
anxiety.
There might be high anxietynext time you let somebody else
drive.
And now we have behavior of youknow, I can barely get in the
car or I always have to be theperson to drive.
And people don't realize thatis their brain keeping that
(23:47):
association of that one carwreck as cars, other people
driving, is now associated withdanger, and now they can't be
comfortable in a car.
Well, that's not that's, that'sa slip of quality of life right
there.
And so if we don't teach peoplehow to manage their own traumas
, I think that's where my fieldhas really messed this up, where
we only look at how unprocessedtrauma shows up in someone's
(24:09):
life anxiety, depression,irritability, drinking too much.
Where we've gotten so good atlabeling the manifestation of
unprocessed trauma rather thanjust coming back to the root and
being like what happened towhere the system thinks it's no
longer safe.
And if we target that, that canhelp the brain make a new
association that that momentwasn't safe.
(24:31):
But I have agency to bringsafety back and that can be
incredibly empowering to givethat back to someone who has
been through something helpless.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Absolutely.
Now we're talking a lot aboutthe brain, but how else does all
of this trauma negativelyaffect other areas of the body?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, so I think you know it all starts with the
brain.
That's like you know.
It's it's information center.
But if you take the brain andslice it into these three areas,
I kind of like to call it thislike stress sandwich, where
we're targeting that middle partthat is determining do I need
to be in fight, flight or freeze?
Right Is there a threat or not.
And so once the braindetermines that there is a
(25:10):
threat and it releases thosechemicals.
One of those is cortisol.
That's a stress hormone, right?
So if someone's walking aroundin a chronic state of just fight
or flight, hello chronic stress, hello chronic cortisol, and
that's inflammation in thesystem.
And when you have chroniccortisol and chronic
inflammation, hello suddencardiac arrest, type 2 diabetes,
(25:33):
certain cancers, high bloodpressure, memory fog, and then
everyone's favorite is thecortisol tire which is waking
right around the midsection.
So when we talk about the vesseland how that relates back to
mental health, if you're dealingfirst of all with any of those
medical issues that can be verystressful, all with any of those
(25:53):
medical issues that can be verystressful, and that
helplessness can come back inbecause you can't, you feel like
you're kind of stuck now withthis disease, this medical issue
, and that can really, you know,cause issues when it comes to
depression, anxiety, quality oflife, irritability, and so we
got to keep the vessel healthy.
And if we can't, for firstresponders, we can't prevent the
next trauma.
(26:14):
We know that there's going tobe another one, another one,
there may be 200 plus more aheadof them and their system's
already inflamed.
So that's where.
How do you use food to helpwith anti-inflammatory?
How do you use movement todecrease cortisol in the system?
How do you use breath, work andgrounding to tell the system
(26:34):
that it's time to calm down anddrop those cortisol levels?
So really approaching the vesselfrom those other experts is
only going to help the system.
When it comes to now, thevessel is healthier.
The brain is way more primed tonow look at mindset how you
make decisions way more primed.
To now look at mindset how youmake decisions, how you talk to
(26:56):
yourself.
It's going to be more clear toaccess those things where, if
the system's inflamed, that canabsolutely go up into the brain.
And now we have the brainsinflamed and it's hard to see
light when everything can startto feel dark.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, and it sounds like each person is going to
need an individualized plan toapproach their own well-being.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yes, I think the biggest thing is we always tell
people you know self-awarenessand intentionality.
You have to be self-aware ofwhat is your body telling you,
what are your relationshipstelling you, what does your own
life look like, what iscurrently on your plate when it
comes to stress, like that isyour responsibility, and then,
once you're aware of it, wecan't just sit there and look at
it.
You have to be intentional withmaybe making some shifts or
(27:38):
pivots in your life to gethealthier.
But when it comes to health ingeneral, what we know so much
about the human system, we canoffer these individuals, who all
have different journeys,different paths, different lives
.
We can offer them what we knowabout the human system and that
could work for every single oneof them.
How you breathe when you'restressed, how you ground, how
(27:58):
you move your body we know allof that just down to the human
body, human system.
So we can apply that to yourlife, even though your life
looks different than the nextperson's.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
And I understand that FIRST offers an
interdisciplinary program.
Can you provide a breakdown ofwhat interdisciplinary means as
it relates to your programs andservices, and why is that
important?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yes.
So that comes back to againthat holistic approach.
So finding experts in the fieldof health and wellness in
general and trauma, so havingculturally competent therapists
would be one area, one fieldthat we need to have ready to go
.
Then you need to have thenutritionists who understand
stress and high performance.
(28:39):
Then you need to have thephysical component of injury
mitigation with an injuryprevention and injury recovery,
with physical and manualtherapists, and they have to
understand not just the humansystem with injury, but what
types of injuries do we tend tosee with first responders
because of what is asked oftheir system?
You know, someone in patrolgoing from sitting for four
(29:02):
hours to all of a sudden a highspeed foot pursuit.
That's a lot to ask of the bodyand hello, injuries, even if
you are the most fit person inthe room.
So, really teaching them how towork with those four hours
leading up to the foot pursuit,how do we help them have
mindfulness so that we'rehelping with the injury, because
, again, we can't remove thethreat but we can help them have
(29:24):
tools to implement, even intheir shift.
Exercise physiologists, theresearch team so that's really
what that interdisciplinary teammeans is we all come from
different disciplines, but weare all working together towards
the mission of keeping qualityof life in place.
From all of these angles, we'reaiming from.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, I think that's another brilliant response or
brilliant idea for this type ofapproach for first responders,
because first responders, inaddition to all of this trauma
and the pressure and thelifestyle that they have to live
, they also have a highlethality rate, especially when
it comes to domestic disturbancecalls.
(30:04):
Is there anything preventativethat first responders or the
agencies they work for can dothat would help facilitate
safety and, potentially,reduction of lethality?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yes, I think that's a great question because you know
, being well isn't going tonecessarily buffer you from some
of these very real threats thatyou are responding to.
But what it can do is again itcomes back to that regulation
piece If you have beenpracticing wellness and
regulation and practicing stresstoo, that's a very important
(30:37):
piece, and what I mean by thatis when you practice stress on
your own terms, whether it'sexercising, whether it's cold,
plunging, having difficultconversations, things that make
you uncomfortable when you buildthat window of tolerance for
stress, the system doesn't getas hijacked when stress you
(30:58):
didn't ask for hits your plate.
And if the system isn't gettingas hijacked, then it's not
taking you on such aphysiological high and low,
which could lead to some ofthose medical issues we're
talking about.
So that regulation piece,priming them for that moment
when they show up to a differentcall from a health perspective,
is already going to help them.
But what I would encouragedepartments to do on top of
(31:20):
health and wellness is effectiveinteractions.
So much of the time, becausethe system, I think, is so ready
for the next threat.
What you could have is a systemthat responds first and
sometimes it always comes downto safety.
So you know they're trained todo that piece and that's out of
my lane.
I'll let them do the trainingpiece.
But if you are interacting withsomeone who's also dysregulated
(31:43):
, having the skills on how tode-escalate a situation and the
skills on how to make sure yourpartner is a little bit more
regulated before we show up andwe know we're going into
something intense so that wedon't have survival mode of the
brain having a very reactivesystem and now we either might
make a mistake, excessive use offorce, we might not think as
(32:07):
clearly because we're notthinking during trauma exposure.
We're surviving it.
Because we're not thinkingduring trauma exposure, we're
surviving it.
But if the system hasn'tpracticed that and doesn't know
how to regulate or, to use theirwords, how to deescalate
someone in front of them with aweapon, that's a skill set that
has to be.
It's just as important as then,maybe, how to make the arrest
or fire the weapon.
(32:27):
Is that kind of spot rightbefore things maybe get bad or
get lethal is how could we havede-escalated this with
additional skills training.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, I love that you point out that we should
practice stress.
We should have situations wherewe are uncomfortable.
We probably do every day and wedon't even know that we're
intentionally practicing stress,but learning to manage it can
definitely lead to betterreactions or responses when
(32:57):
something comes our way.
So thank you for including thatinformation for us.
We've talked a lot about thefirst responder, the person who
is in this line of work.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout their relatives, because
your organization also includesa wellness program for relatives
(33:18):
of first responders.
What is the motivation forincluding them in the process?
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I think, like we spoke about before, connection
is key, and I think we all canrelate to this that when your
home life is healthier and moreregulated, that's going to
translate to how you show up atwork and vice versa, right, and
so, while we may not always beable to change the personalities
they work with or the leadersthey work under, or the policy
(33:45):
changes and policies they haveto deal with, that can possibly
follow them home.
And now you know we'redisplacing some of that
frustration that belongs at workon the family members.
We can't always change thatpart.
We can teach them how to bufferthat piece, but we can work
from the opposite side, wherethe things that we can control
is how you spend time with yourfamily members, how you resolve
(34:08):
conflict when there's conflictwith your family members, how to
hold space for your familymembers, and what I mean by that
there's a few things with thisis when you have someone who is
responding, like I said, to thatcall on a Tuesday and like
that's their Tuesday and that'sfirst responder terrible call
Tuesday.
And they come home and theirspouse has had a Tuesday too,
(34:29):
but their Tuesday is like righthere, right, we see this all the
time where all I have to do isshow the first responder this
and say what might happen whenthere's this gap and the first
responder an honest one isalways going to say, oh, I'm
going to minimize their stress.
I'm going to look at theirstress and be like are you
kidding me?
That's what you're upset about.
You have no idea.
(34:50):
You should have seen what I hadto deal with.
And when you have a high stressjob in a relationship that can
become almost this competitionof whose stress is worse, right,
and that will dividerelationships very quickly.
Because the next question I askis okay, if we're constantly
doing this and looking down atthis other relationship, saying,
(35:12):
really, is that what you'restressed about?
What message are you sendingthem?
You're sending the message thateither their stress isn't
important, their pains don'tmatter, their victories aren't
as great, and what?
happens when any of us feel thatway, why would we share anymore
?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, it's very diminishing.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, it's very diminishing.
Yeah, it's very diminishing.
I'm going to shut down, I'mgoing to stop sharing or I'm
going to go share it with otherpeople who make me actually feel
valued in that.
And so the first responderdidn't intentionally push a
loved one away, but because ofthis high stress exposure and
this dynamic of well, who'sstress is worse or better, it
can create a very terrible wedge.
So it's really teaching them.
(35:50):
First of all, it's not aboutbetter or worse, it's their
stress is different than yours.
They didn't sign up for thistype of job, right?
But that doesn't mean that theydon't deserve to have their
stress held for them.
So if the first responder isdysregulated after that Tuesday,
call how to regulate when theyget back to the station, how to
regulate on the way home, how toregulate in the driveway, so
regulate when they get back tothe station, how to regulate on
(36:12):
the way home, how to regulate inthe driveway, so that when they
show up, both of their needscan be expressed and the
question can then be hey, I seeyou, what do you need from me,
rather than what's your problem?
And because the two questionscan be have very different
responses, so teaching themabout just the difference in
stress, but also teaching themthat there is very much a thing
called nervous systemsynchronization when we are
(36:32):
connected to people that we love, especially living with people
that we love our systems sync upwith theirs.
So if you are anxious and ifanyone's listening, like if
you've ever lived with someonewho has like high anxiety and
like we're always late and we'regoing and everything's this and
that, and there's worst casescenario, like you step out of
that household and you can feelthe anxiety in your body and
(36:53):
next thing you know like you'redoing this with the people at
work or with your friends orwith your kiddos.
So our systems sync up withthose that we love.
Same thing if someone you livewith is really depressed and
they can't get out of the bedand it's going on like a week or
two weeks and you can feel theheaviness in that house, well,
that's also in your body.
So you leave that household andnow you go to work or to a
(37:17):
meeting or to a play date orwherever you're going, and you
just feel this like lull.
It's because you're synced upwith your loved ones.
So, teaching family members hey, as a first responder family,
you are already going to be upagainst very different type of
stressors than a non-firstresponder family.
Or hey, as a first respondercouple, don't be comparing
yourself to non-first respondercouples, because your stress is
(37:39):
different, even just from thephysiological standpoint.
So that means we can't just askthe family to white knuckle it.
They have to be informed, theyhave to be prepared.
They have to be informed, theyhave to be prepared, they have
to have skills, as if we don'task them to sacrifice enough,
they have to work even harder tokeep their connection in place
because they're up againsttrauma and high stress which can
(38:00):
create such wedges inrelationships, and that's why we
see the divorce rates so high.
The kiddo piece is reallyimportant to us as well.
We've partnered with the FirstResponder Children's Foundation,
which is an incrediblenonprofit, and through that
relationship we are able toextend free therapy sessions to
the kiddos of first responders,and kiddo is from zero to 25.
(38:22):
They also do scholarships.
They cover some of ourworkshops.
So when we do family workshopsor workshops for just the kids
or just the teens, we do avirtual just teenagers, because
that's hard too.
It's just really beautiful towatch them, you know, make meals
together with the nutritionist,move their bodies, with the
performance coaches teachingthem how to use belly breaths
(38:45):
when they have big emotions, andthen they come in and
demonstrate it in front of momand dad.
All of those things that arehappening in one of our
workshops can hopefully followthem home and now they can
implement those same skills tohelp again buffer them against
that tidal wave of stress that'sgoing to hit this family.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
So, in comparison, buy-in from first responders
versus buy-in from their familymembers, how does that sync up?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yes, I love this piece because I love doing
couples workshops.
I mean, I love all the work thatI do, but I just think that it
just adds such a fun layer whenyou have a couple who knows each
other and can call each otherout and you have like 10 of
these couples in one room, notonly connecting the thread
between all of them of yes,they're all different
(39:29):
relationships but they do sharethis common bond of being a
first responder couple.
And I always love sometimeshearing you know, the first
responders say you know my, mywife pulled me to this.
Or my spouse said I had to cometo this.
But then once they get thereand they realize that it's not a
kumbaya group therapy sessionand this is actually very real
(39:50):
talk with actualsolution-focused techniques that
they can start deploying.
You then hear from the firstresponder of I'm so glad I came,
and then what we hear from thespouse is I wish I would have
known All of our couples'workshops.
I will say there's always onespouse that comes up to me and
here she says this would havebeen helpful, like 15 years ago.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
It's 15 years ago.
I thought that it's because Iwas doing something wrong, or he
was no longer attracted to me,or I was just a burden in his
life, or he didn't like cominghome to me and the kids anymore.
And if you think about thatnarrative, as a trauma focused
specialist I always say like yes, trauma rattles people.
But what I think rattles themmore is when they don't
understand the impact of trauma,the narrative that they've told
(40:37):
themselves.
Because now for 15 years thatspouse has maybe had this
narrative about who he or she isin their relationship and we
could have gotten ahead of that.
We could have saved 15 years ofnot only a narrative, but every
narrative has a behavioralresponse.
They might have been actingdifferent, showing up different,
not speaking up when theyshould have, not expressing
(40:57):
their needs, coping in unhealthyways, like we could have saved
15 years of that.
But that's why it's soimportant for every department
do not leave family members out.
They are part of your tool tokeep your first responder
healthy.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's so insightful.
This has all been so helpful.
Let's talk about buy-in then,from the department level.
I know you've scaled thisprogram dramatically over the
past several years.
What does it take to get adepartment to say, yeah, we want
to implement that.
And then who pays for all ofthis?
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, that's it.
Budget is always a roadblock,right, but I believe it's a
roadblock because we have notbeen.
We didn't have enough of theknowledge about the impact of
the job to say, hey, we need aseparate budget for wellness.
You know we have a budget forthe equipment for this training,
like we needed a separatebudget for that.
You know we have a budget forthe equipment for this training,
like we needed a separatebudget for that.
(41:51):
So when I first started, firstone thing I had learned pretty
quickly was I didn't want tofunction off of a grant, because
I think it's amazing that thereare grants.
There's a ton of money outthere and I'm going to talk
about how you should go afterthat money, but what I have
found is, when a department usesa grant, grants can stop.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
And this is about sustainable programming.
I believe that when we go thegrant route, it takes some of
the responsibility not only offof the department, but off of
the city.
And now we are letting a grantfund wellness, and now it's just
stopped and you just gave yourpeople a feel of, hey, we're
going to start treating youdifferent, we're going to start
resourcing this out, we're goingto take care of you and your
(42:32):
family members.
Money stops and that messagestops with it.
So we like to go not only afterthe decision makers, like the
chiefs and getting peercoordinators involved and really
the leaders in the department.
We also like to sit down withcity managers, city HR, helping
educate them on how this job isdifferent and that there should
(42:55):
be budgeting for it.
And we have found that somecities will create the wellness
budget for the department andthen it's up to the department
hey, next year, budgetdifferently so that your
wellness budget can come nowfrom within the department
rather than on the city.
Some cities continue to givethem budgeting.
So it's really starting withwhere do we want to place the
(43:16):
level of responsibility?
And I think the level ofresponsibility shouldn't be on
some external you know.
Hey, thanks for the cash itshould really be.
How do we want this culture tobe different so that we can take
care of our current firstresponders and the next waves of
generations coming through?
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, and that's just a shift in priorities, right?
Yes, prioritizing health andwellness and safety for the
people who are protecting andsaving lives through
firefighting and all other typesof organizations throughout a
city.
Where can people learn moreabout FIRST?
What's your website?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
learn more about FIRST.
What's your website?
Our website is wwwfirstf1rstorg, and through our website you
can send in anonymous inquiries,you can find out how to set up
trainings, you can send in arequest for therapy.
All of that can be done throughthe website.
We also are on different socialmedia platforms.
On Instagram and Facebookthere's a Dr T page and then
also a first page I believe mineis drtfirst for Instagram and I
(44:20):
like to do helpful techniques,videos, posts behind the scenes,
upcoming events.
It's a little bit more personal, and then we have the first one
as well.
One other thing that I will sayto maybe there is a city
manager listening or a chief.
I think the old ways of healthand wellness for the department
was, you know, eap, and if afirst responder is listening,
(44:42):
they might have like an initialnegative response to oh, eap.
Because, what has happened isthe city would make EAP for all
city employees, find thesetherapists and then expect the
first responders to go see thosetherapists.
But some of those therapistsare not trauma-informed.
They don't understand theculture.
You have to understand theunique demands on these first
(45:03):
responders Because what wouldhappen is first responders would
say I spent the first fivesessions telling my therapist
about what it is that I do and Ispent the first five sessions
telling my therapist about whatit is that I do and I missed
those first five sessions tojust get to healing.
So first, as a result, we nowserve the whole city.
So we've created EAP andprogramming that can be put out
to citywide employees.
But we've started with thefirst responder program.
(45:24):
So now we know first responderdepartments have specialized
care and that samespecialization can go to the
city, rather than gettingnon-specialized care and
expecting it to go up to aspecialized area if that makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, got it Perfect.
Thank you so much for being onthe show and providing this
insightful information.
It's outstanding.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Thank you so much.
I just appreciate what you guysdo.
You know.
I think, like I said, ourbiggest thing is education, and
knowledge is power, and when youhave a podcast like this and
you hold space for people whocan listen and maybe it relates
to them or a family member Ijust think that's how we're
going to continue the impact andyou know, you'll never
(46:06):
understand how many people youreach through things like
podcasts.
So thank you, guys for what youdo as well.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Absolutely, thank you .
Thanks so much for listening.
Until next time, stay safe.
The 2025 Conference on CrimesAgainst Women will take place in
Dallas, texas, may 19th throughthe 22nd at the Sheraton Dallas
.
Learn more and register atconferencecaworg and follow us
on social media at National CCAW.
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