Exploring the 'Podfather' Adam Curry's Boostagram Ball: and the British Podcast Awards Controversy

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Cridland (00:00):
It's Friday, the 4th of August 2023.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Sethi.

I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News
.

Sam Sethi (00:15):
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of Podfans.

In the chapters.
Today, adam Curry makespodcasting history again.
The British podcast awards areslammed for their ticket pricing
.
Podcasts are coming to TikTok,amazon and their weird demand of
30% ad revenue share, and alsoHi there.

Jake Warren (00:34):
I'm Jake Warren.
I'm the CEO and founder ofMessage Heard and I'll be on to
talk about the interestingdevelopments of the British
podcast awards.

Adam Curry (00:42):
Now, madam Curry, I will be on later to talk about
boosts, the grand ball as wemove into an exciting new phase
of podcasting music podcast andwhat is it?
I'll tell you later.

They will.
This podcast is sponsored andhosted by Buzzsprout.
Last week, 3,091 people starteda podcast with Buzzsprout.
Podcast hosting made easy withpowerful tools and remarkable
customer support, and now AI tohelp you publish your show.
And by Pod News Live in Londonthis September.
Tickets are available now atpodnewsnet slash live.

(01:16):
From your daily newsletter, thePod News Weekly Review.

Sam Sethi (01:21):
Okay, james, let's crack on with the show.
Look, last Friday Adam Currylaunched his new podcast called
Boost the Grand Ball.
It's the first time that moneyfrom listeners has shared
directly with the music artists,so it was using value for value
in a live show.
We think we used to call thoseradio shows, didn't we James?
But anyway, if you have acompatible podcast player like

(01:45):
Podverse Fountain or Podfans,you can listen to those shows
and in real time, while the showwas playing, you could also be
paying those artists.
Did you ever listen to the show, james?

Yeah, I had listened to the show.
It was a very Adam Curry show.
Lots of compression in there,lots of exciting music and all
of that kind of stuff and reallyinteresting and really exciting
how this is the first timereally that artists are going to
get properly paid for the songsthat they have on these

(02:18):
particular shows.

Sam Sethi (02:18):
So really cool, I thought Well it would be rude of
us not to then reach out toAdam himself, the Podfather, and
ask him a little bit about whatwas Booster Groundball and why
it took him 20 years to createthis podcast.

Adam Curry (02:32):
Coming from a radio background, I understand, and
have always understood theissues with playing music in a
radio program, in a pirate radio.
So I've actually been arrestedfor doing that and have gotten
in trouble for playing musicwithout paying the proper

(02:54):
licenses, because there is asystem set up worldwide.
Music is very complicated.
The music industry has, ofcourse, where there's a lot of
money, there's a lot of peopletrying to take pieces of it and
there's a lot of ownership, alot of ownership issues, and
whenever music is used, thepeople who created that music or

(03:15):
who own that not necessarilythe same people want to have a
piece of it.
So for podcasting man, there'sa whole bunch of stuff that
comes into play.
There's the performing rights,because it's kind of like a
radio show.
There's the mechanical rights,because you're actually putting
it onto an MP3 that's beingduplicated, replicated.
There's a publishing right.
I mean it's all this stuff.

(03:35):
So if you really made a podcastand you played music that was
licensed through any of theseperforming rights organizations
and, of course, has bigpublishers, you're pretty
certain you're going to get suedor you'll have to take it down.
It just won't work.
Probably, if you go back andlisten to the early days of
Daily Source Code.
You'll hear me talking aboutthis and the whole.

(03:58):
This is really why the entiremedium went more towards
soliloquies, monologues,dialogues, interviews, et cetera
, and has really been aboutvoices and not about music.
We needed a mechanism to getthe artist paid, the music
owners whoever produced the songowns it, whoever else played on

(04:21):
it, whatever that distributionhas to be.
We needed to have a simple wayto do that, basically to create
the modern version.
We had the modern version ofthe studio for recording.
We had the modern version ofradio, which is podcasting.
Now we needed the modernversion of distributing payments
and rights, very much likeASCAP, bmi, and those pieces

(04:43):
came together in the past weekor two.

Sam Sethi (04:47):
Is it the past week or two when I listened to you
and Dave?
I obviously followed you forthe last couple of years and it
feels like there's been blocksbuilding.
Now you may have had the viewof where this was going, but not
all of us did so.
For example, when did you firstgo?
I know the monetizationmechanism it's Tosh's, it's

(05:07):
micropayments.
I know you've had value forvalue for a long time from no
agenda, but when did you andDave suddenly go?
Yep, it's this Toshie.

Adam Curry (05:17):
Well, when I called Dave and said and we've been
friends for 12, 10, 12 years andwe'd tried lots of cool little
projects that went nowhere, westill are five people who use
our software.
And I said, dude, here's whatwe got to do.
We've got to protect podcasting, we're going to have to set up
our own index so that no onecould deplatform it, and we need
an API for podcast developersto use this.

(05:38):
And we have to make it free.
And the idea from the get gowas free means value for value,
so they can use it.
You know, you use the API andyet you support the project.
If no one supports the projectmonetarily, by supporting us
with finances as well, it'll die.
So you know, but I've done noagenda long enough to know that
you can build a community aroundthis.

(05:59):
Simultaneously, I was learningabout the Lightning Network and
this wonderful piece of it whichis key send, which means you
don't need permission to sendsomebody money.
And I said you know, and weneed to put this as the payment
system.
We saw that you could splitthis up and we immediately went,
Dave, and I went ah, now we canfinally put the application

(06:24):
developer in the value flow.
This was the big idea, becauseyou know people who were
building apps.
You know they have to beg for$2.99 a month or a $99 purchase
or it's very demoralizing notdemoralizing per se, but you're
not.
You know, if you see someonegot a big ad deal and you're the
app guy and people are usingyour software and you're working

(06:46):
hard and of course you onlyhear from your users when
something breaks and then yousuck and this is no good and
what do I expect with it?
But you're never in the valueflow.
So now it's like, oh man, wecould have not just the app
developers but also podcastindex, can you know can also
receive a little piece of this.
So here's a true value forvalue system where the minute

(07:08):
someone presses play at theirown discretion, so whatever they
feel it's worth, they aresending value to the podcaster,
to the app they're using, to,you know, to the index.
That is actually part of theapp developers value flow and
the podcaster on their end cansplit this up transparently.

(07:28):
So you can have, per host, youknow, 40% for the for each
co-host and you know, 5% forsomeone who's doing chapters and
5% who's doing something foryou know, some promotion for the
show 10% to your mom becauseyou borrowed the money from her
to buy the equipment.
So it's like, wow, this isperfect.

(07:49):
Now, once we had that workingand in play, my head was already
gone.
I knew from that moment I knewthis is the way for music.
It's been.
You know, hundreds of peopleover time have worked together
on this and I think that Daveand I sometimes just act as

(08:10):
co-conductors of an orchestraand this orchestra there's a
hundred people show up andthere's a guy with a banjo and
someone with spoons and awashboard and electric guitar a
Spanish guitar and we have tokind of make it all work
together.
And this, to me, I got to go alittle spiritual.

(08:31):
To me it's God's work.
What's happened here?
There's been something that'sgone beyond just a couple of
guys and some people.
This was meant to be and theway this was all flowing
together.
And for me all I had to do wasjust add my piece was once we
kind of had it, you know, and ofcourse I've been motivating
like, hey, you know what if wedo this part and what if we,

(08:52):
when I play the song, we canswitch the wallet, so that then
goes to the artist.
You know that, translated tosomething called remote item.
And this is now you're in doingnamespace and spec stuff.
Adam doesn't do that.
That's Dave and Alex Gates andSteven B and all these different
people who jump in.
And I think the true reason isthat from the get-go, everybody

(09:17):
is getting a piece of that valueflow.
It's not about how much it'sthat.
The minute it works, everybodysees it.
Everybody sees a couple of satsdrip into their wallet, you
know, and that is such anexciting, exhilarating,
rewarding feeling.
That is what has made this workand gotten us to this point.

Sam Sethi (09:36):
Yeah, no, I mean, I remember the first time I got my
head around how to make awallet work and sent my first
sats or received my first sats.
It was magic.
And I think you know I just didthis with Rob Greenley just the
other day.
I just set up a wallet for him,dumped in a thousand sats, in
real time as we were talking.
He was like, oh my God, I getit right.
And so it is that magic moment.

(09:57):
And I think when I look at thenamespace, you know everything
that's been built.
So it starts off with chaptersand the value block, then splits
and the live item tag and thenthis new one which has come out
recently, which, again, maybeyou can explain a little bit
more about the value time split.
Now this is the one that reallytook a lot of people me maybe

(10:19):
longer than others to get myhead around, because I was like,
ok, well, we've got valueblocks and we've got splits,
adam, why do we need somethingelse?
And when I looked at what it isand how it works, it's the way
that in your show you can divertany payments for a period of
time to an artist and explain alittle bit more.

(10:43):
What was the, I suppose, theidea behind coming up with
another way of splittingpayments.

Adam Curry (10:50):
OK, so within the, an RSS feed for a podcast, we
can, and that was actually thefirst we had.
The namespace was created forthe value block, so that came
first, the whole reason for thenamespace, which we're delighted
by what came into the namespace, because, holy crap, now we
have 25, 26 different features,but it started with in order to

(11:12):
have the value block, whichmeans, ok, here's an RSS feed.
Now there's somethingadditional and we define it in
this namespace, which is just apointer to our documentation,
and that was the value block,meaning any payments that you
want to send to this podcast aredone through this mechanism and
you could technically putanything in there you want, but

(11:34):
we chose for lightning andanyone can add something if they
want.
No one's really done itsuccessfully yet and the payment
addresses are to thesedifferent wallets and here is
the distribution, so thepercentages, as we were moving
ahead.
Something that came up that wasdeveloped amongst this large
group was the remote item, andit was initially, I think, set

(11:57):
up for playlists, so you couldpoint to a different podcast or
a clip from a podcast and itwould, instead of you inserting
something from someone else'sfeed, creating a duplicate
recording, you could just say,hey, this particular moment I

(12:21):
want to insert this particularitem from a whole different
podcast feed.
That of course, brought theidea that, oh, wait a minute,
what if that item was a song?
But instead of inserting thatsong, what if we just make a
pointer in time and say, at 10seconds into the beginning of my

(12:43):
show, I'm starting a song?
So at that moment I want everypodcast app that understands
value for value to switch thewallet to that song's
information.
And here's where it gets cool,because the song which is put up
by an artist is just like apodcast, only it's three, four

(13:06):
minutes and it has a RSS feed.
It has a value block.
That song can have a valueblock that is distributed in a
very traditional manner.
Writer-composer, which may be40% each, because that is a
traditional split.
Writer-composer the two peopleof the song, but maybe you put
in every band member, everyperson who played on the song.

(13:27):
Give them a couple of points.
Now we've just circumvented allof ASCAD, bmi, the whole
publishing business.
They've been antiquatedovernight, because not only is
the payment direct, you don'thave to wait 48 months, it's
direct from the person who'senjoying the music at that
moment to the artist who and thepeople who created the song.
It's also completelytransparent because you can look

(13:49):
at the value block and say, oh,this is what everyone's getting
.
There's no hanky-panky, youdon't have to sue the label, you
don't have to sue ASCAD BMI.
It's exactly all the thingsthat artists and musicians and
people who make and publishmusic have complained about for
50 years has been circumventedright in one go.
And for me, the frustrated radioDJ, I can now play whatever I

(14:12):
want, as long as it's withinthis realm of music.
Whenever I play a song andyou're listening to it at that
moment, the wallet in your appswitches to whoever is the owner
of that piece of content, ofthat music.
So now, if you're streamingsats in real time maybe 100 sats
a minute or 200 sats a minuteit's going to go to the owner of

(14:36):
that piece of music and theirdistribution.
When you hit your boost buttonor a boostogram, that will also
go.
So now you can also send a noteto the person who made that
song and let them know how muchyou enjoy it.
I mean, we're just scratchingthe surface now of what can be
done with this.

Sam Sethi (14:53):
Yeah, the nearest.
I got to it so I could get myhead around.
It was like a hyperlink URL.
So you're on a web page andthere's a link on a page.
You click on the link and itgoes somewhere else.
So you're in the same way forthat moment in the audio, just
for that second or time thatyou've set aside, it goes off.
Looks at someone else's valueblock, looks at something else,
everything transfer there andthen when that's finished, it

(15:14):
comes back to you.
I just thought it was genius.
So how do people get involvedin this?
So here you are doing a liveshow, you're playing music,
you're mixing it all in, but inthe split value time split
you've got specific timestamps.
Are you doing that post thetime?
How's it working, adam?
How does it work?
Do you do it beforehand or doyou do it through some voodoo

(15:39):
magic?
What do you do?

Adam Curry (15:41):
As a DJ anyone who's an old school DJ you know that
we are basically octopus, wehave eight hands and we could do
a whole bunch of things at once.
But let's keep it simple andlet's say I'm not doing a live
show, I'm just recording apodcast and this podcast will
include music.
So we actually have beentesting this concept out for
several weeks on the podcast in2.0 boardroom, as we call it,

(16:03):
the podcast in 2.0 podcast.
We'll play a song and we'llswitch the wallet at that moment
.
So, like everything with it'snew with podcasting, to create
the podcast, your podcast hostwill have to add some additional
capabilities.
There's a lot of moving parts inthis case.

(16:24):
That is typical with everythingRSS.
You could literally do all thisin Notepad if you know what
you're doing, and you don't evenhave to.
If you can read English and youhave an understanding of what
you're doing, you could do thisthis way.
But that's not what most people, if any people, are actually
going to do.
In order to add these walletswitches in, you need to be able

(16:46):
to get the information from themusic that you're about to play
.
I'm just going to keep it inmusic to keep it simple, the way
the spec is built, we actuallyuse the GUID, that's the unique
identifier of that particularpiece.
So you need to be able toretrieve that information.

(17:06):
That's not something that isjust simple to do.
There's some work that some lookup, that needs to be done and
again, the beautiful Steven Bcreated a system where you
literally you type in the nameof the artist, the song, the
title, and it pops up and youjust select it and it builds all

(17:26):
that into this one particularblock of the RSS feed.
That's something that I'm notsure how quickly hosting
companies will get on board withthat to do this type of work.
It may be something that couldbe an external tool.
I think that's probably morelikely.
But the way I do it currentlyis I've recorded the show, I get

(17:47):
ready to publish the feed andjust like I'd say, okay, here's
the chapters, here's where thetranscript file is, here's who
the host is for the person tag,all these things you put into a
little interface.
Now I look up the songs that Iplayed and I say, okay, play
this at this minute, at thisminute, at this minute for the

(18:08):
next one, and that all gets putinto the split.
So that's how you would do it.
One feed, as far as I know, isthe only tool that does this
front to back, and then all Ihave to do is publish and it
works.

Sam Sethi (18:22):
When, where, next?
Where are you going to takethis next?
What's in your head?

Adam Curry (18:26):
There's a lot of sawdust.
Apparently there's a lot ofstuff in there.

Sam Sethi (18:30):
In my head is right now.

Adam Curry (18:33):
I'm very excited because what I hope would happen
is happening.
Most are starving for discoveryto be discovered, to be known,
to be distributed for people totalk about them.
If I wanted to start a musicshow without value for value, I
could have done that at anypoint and people would have been
happy to give me their songsand I could play it.

(18:54):
But now what we've seen,particularly with Wave Lake,
w-a-v-l-a-k-ecom, is they are,they have a little top 40 there.
Now it's not all the songs thatare value for value, but you
know they're right now.
It's a place where someone caneasily go and set it up.
They're not.
They're lacking a lot offeatures like full split

(19:15):
capability etc.
But you can.
You can go there quickly andset something up and see that
when someone plays your song youcan see sats coming in.
This is a very exciting momentfor artists because even on the
tests we did in the past two orthree months with podcasting 2.0
, the podcast we'd get emailsfrom people saying, like Joe

(19:39):
Martin, like I got in one daymore actual value from one play
of podcasting 2.0 than threeyears of Spotify.
So I want a hundred thousandmusic podcasts and I think this
comes at a good time, sam,because and I even mentioned
this on the first Boost to GrandBall, you had the producer on

(19:59):
from who did, who worked forArchwell and set up Pivot and
yeah, Rebecca, yeah.
Rebecca.
Yeah, rebecca, exactly.
She was saying podcasting is,you know, in this lull right now
, which is, you know, as we'veidentified, is because a lot of
the money has dried up to fundnew projects.
There's a softness, as somewould call it, in the

(20:20):
advertising market.
Oh boy, what are we going to do?
Is podcasting over?
It's not cool anymore.
All of a sudden, here's a wholenew category of podcasting,
which is it's.
We're bringing in a whole fieldof content.
This is not just people who cantalk.
This is people who areinterested in music.
You don't have to be a DJ,don't have to be Adam Curry to

(20:42):
do this.
You can just be a dude who sitsaround or do debt, saying, hey,
here's some cool tracks that Ifound I want to share with you.
Let me play this.
And yeah, I got the guy or galon.
Let me interview him.
We've created, then, really we,all of us, everyone who's been
working in this community forthree years, and it's hosting
companies, it's, I mean,everyone's in on it.
We have created this newcategory and it's just sprouted

(21:06):
and here we go.
You know, hold on to your pants.

Sam Sethi (21:08):
Yeah, I mean some of the places.
If you want to play in thisgame, you know, go to fountain,
podverse, pod fans, kuro, cast apod friend, podcast guru,
podcast addict, and there'sprobably several of them missed
out, but you know they're alljoining in now and again.
I think you know a lot of thisis going to evolve very quickly
into what I would say morepeople are aware of it than they

(21:31):
are today.

Adam Curry (21:32):
And I'd like to toot your horn for a moment, sam
what you've done with pod fans.
I think this is going to beright up your alley.
I mean the things that can bedone now with music in addition
to what you've already done withpodcasting, and it's almost
like a gift.
Pod fans you know you have avery agile.
I think you support as justlike Kuro cast, or probably

(21:54):
support every single tag, everysingle feature of podcasting 2.0
.
I mean you can even have themusic lookup built right into
pod fans so people can look upthe music there.
I mean the stuff that you willbe able to do.
I'm very excited to see whatwill come out of that.
I mean, your problem is howmuch time at the date do you
have?

Sam Sethi (22:14):
Oh, I have all the time.
We are looking very closely atit right now.
We have all the mechanismsworking.
So the good lookup for a podrole we have that.
The ability to support thevalue time splurge we have that.
I've got a call, hopefully withStephen B, to understand how we
do it in the live show because,again, that's still something I

(22:34):
haven't got my head around.
But all of this is very cool.
And look all the value for valueblock we already know.
We've got boost to ground ballalready in our system and we can
already see how the splits areworking, the fees are working
and everything else is workingand the payments have.
We've already got in thechapters all of the cover art
for each of the title artistsand links out.

(22:55):
So all of that is already there.
There's a few enhancements wewould like to make, but it all
works and that was without ushaving to change anything.
We just ingested your RSSstraight into our system and it
all just worked and that was alovely, beautiful thing about it
.
So, yeah, very well done.

Adam Curry (23:11):
That's actually one of the beautiful things that I
learned early on from DaveWeiner, who, of course, really
did all the technology ofpodcasting 1.0, which we
concepted and invented togetheris this concept of
interoperability.
In the early days of podcasting, I was just looking at software

(23:32):
developers and how they wouldspeak and how they would
function and there was alwaysthis do we have interop?
Do we have interop?
And I never really understoodhow important it was, and of
course, that's what RSS was bydefinition is a protocol or
format really that allowseveryone to interoperate with
each other, and we've reallyonly just added one more thing

(23:53):
to that, and that is theLightning Network.
And so there was never.
We didn't have to go out andbuild Wave Lake, we didn't have
to convince anybody to do allthis, we didn't have to build
GetAlbycom, we didn't have totalk to anyone at Breeze or

(24:16):
anywhere else.
Here's how it works is everyoneunderstands it, and so that's
what I think is so exciting iswe don't even know what the next
thing will be, that someonecomes along and just plugs into
this, because it's all open,it's all known how it works and
everybody can play along, aslong as you adhere to these

(24:36):
basic protocols and formatswhich are published and well
distributed and no one owns.
And having the value flow Ican't say it enough that's the
magic.
Most open source projects likepodcasting 2.0, podcast index
they blow up within a certainamount of time because there's
anger and disagreement and thenthey fizzle and then someone

(24:59):
forks it and goes off and doestheir own thing.
I've seen it so many times andbecause the value flow is a part
of this, no one ever strays toofar from that because, hey, if
I plug this thing in, it's gonnaI'm gonna go to piece of the
value flow.

The Pondfather himself, adam Curry, and a full
version of that interview isavailable in the pod news extra
feed.
I notice that you managed toget your voice in quite a lot
there, sam.

Sam Sethi (25:28):
Yeah, the three, three sentences added to it
immensely.
He talks for a living.
You know he doesn't.
I didn't notice that.
No, no, he's very good.
I mean, look, it was a bit likethe action man that I used to
have when I was a kid, you know,you pulled a string at the back
of the head and then they justtalk.
It's easy as an interviewer tojust simply ask Adam, tell me
about this, and then sit back.

(25:49):
I went and made a cup of coffee.
I came back he was still going.
It was great.

Yeah, glass of wine, had a full three course
meal.
No, really cool, really cooland great to hear Adam and you
know you got the feelinglistening to that show.
You got the feeling that he wasjust super proud of everything.
There's so much technology,there's so much running with
scissors that's made all of thiswork and it's a wonderful thing

(26:14):
that it's that it's finallythere.
So I guess the question iswhether or not the catalogue is
wide enough yet to be able toproduce a music show which will
have a ton of different, ofdifferent artists in there.
But right now, you know it's agreat start.

Sam Sethi (26:31):
It is, and I think later on in the technical
section you and I are going totalk about more of the
technology that was made or usedto make that show and also some
of the feedback from theartists that are absolutely over
the moon with what's happened.
So again, stick with us.
In the technical section We'llcover a little bit more about
that.

Yeah, and, as a reminder, we use chapters so you
can skip right there if youwant to, but don't do that.
Listen to this instead.
This is all about.
Well, I spotted this aboutAmazon, who are doing something
really interesting.
So what they're basically doingis they have a fire TV, which
is their TV platform, which is afork of Android, and they sell
these little sticks that go inthe back of your TVs.

(27:13):
And what they have turnedaround to the companies who are
on that platform and that mightbe, you know, itv player, or it
might be Hulu, or it might beall of these other platforms
they basically turned around andsaid right, we want 30% of your
ad revenue, or, if you like,you can use our own ad sales

(27:34):
program instead.
And I was looking at that andthinking well, that's really
interesting.
It's got nothing to do withpodcasting, but that's really
interesting.
And then I thought, well, nowait, it might, because podcasts
right now contain advertising.
They're not required to shareany ad revenue at this time, but
presumably Amazon Music andSpotify and YouTube will all be

(27:57):
watching this with interest andgoing.
Well, if Amazon get away withthis, then maybe we can ask our
podcasters for 30% of theirincome as well.
What do you think?
Do you think I'm just crazy, ordo you think there's something
in that?
I think they would be crazy ifthey did that.

Sam Sethi (28:12):
Oh, yeah, I mean, I think they've been watching
Apple going oh, they've beengetting away with that 30% for
ages.
We want a bit of that 30%,thank you very much.
But no, there is a largefragmentation.
There are a lot of providers.
I think they're sitting theregoing yeah, we're providing the
infrastructure, providing thenetwork.
We want some value.
So I can see why they might.

(28:34):
30% feels a bit high, but thatseems to be the market value set
by Apple.
And yeah, you're right, I meanAmazon and Spotify and YouTube
Music might sit there and go.
Yeah, with podcasts, maybe wecould.
I don't think they would,though I think everyone at
Abandoned Ship fairly quickly onthat one.

No, I think there is something around why
podcast platforms aren't sayingwe'll have a bit of that money
too, and I guess if you have alook at value for value, that's
kind of built in there.
If you give this show a boost,then a percentage of that goes
to the podcast index.
If you give the pod news dailya boost, then a percentage of

(29:17):
that goes to the people who arehosting that show, more of which
later.
So I think there's potentiallysomething there but worthwhile
keeping an eye on, I guess.

Sam Sethi (29:27):
Now, one thing you spotted very much this week
TikTok are announcing that theymight be going into podcasting
and they're going to use RSS aswell.
James, tell me more.

Yes, some podcasters if you're a special
podcaster, then you might get anemail from them with details of
how to add podcast feeds toTikTok.
I think it's done in rather aclever way.
So, firstly, it uses your RSSfeed, but secondly, they're not
trying to do another podcast app.
All they're trying to do isallow you to link from your

(30:01):
video to a podcast episode soyou can listen to that podcast
episode in TikTok.
So it basically encourages you,as a podcaster, to produce
content on TikTok, which thenlinks directly to the podcast
episode, which is quite aninteresting podcast.
It's quite a smart idea.
It plays on a player pagewithin the app.

(30:22):
It seems to work quite nicely.
Tiktok have been doing thissort of thing, have been
fiddling around in the podcastspace for the last two years, so
I understand.
But yeah, the first set ofpodcasters are getting access to
this.
So another podcast platform,but not really a replacement for
Spotify or for Google podcastsor YouTube music.

(30:45):
It's really a very differentway of doing things.

Sam Sethi (30:48):
I think YouTube should look at this very
cleverly.
One of the things I think thatpodcasters could do and should
do maybe is create clips fromtheir audio or from a video if
they want to record it, Insteadof putting it through the main
YouTube platform.
I think they'd get betterengagement if they went like

(31:09):
TikTok five-minute short clips,or maybe they did Reels or they
did Instagrams and again thatwhole short, quick, sort of like
a here's a little snippet of mypodcast Now you might want to
come and listen to the full oneover here.
I think you should use thoseplatforms for what they're good
for and I don't know.
Well, I'm excited.
I want to see when this comesout, because I want to play with

(31:31):
it, and I think TikTok'sengagement for me right now is
going through the roof.
I think it's brilliant.

Yeah, no, I think it's a very clever way of
integrating podcasts into thatparticular platform and I would
share that.
I think you know perhaps thisis something that YouTube should
have thought about and actuallyencourage people to produce the
short form content that we knowworks on YouTube, rather than
uploading the entire show.

(31:58):
So it makes a bunch of sense, Ithink, worthwhile keeping an
eye on, Right.

Sam Sethi (32:03):
Next story OK, brand unsuitability is the title.
Nice, yeah, so these AI brandsuitability platforms have
basically used AI and said thatthey don't particularly
understand certain blackpodcasters, and so they've
labeled them as unsuitable.
James, tell me more about this.

Yeah, this was a astonishing story.
Now it is put out by Sounder,which is an AI based tool, an AI
based brand suitability toolwhich gets things right, so they
say so.
Just bear that in mind when youlisten to what the story is.
But if you look at standardkeyword blocklists, which some

(32:49):
people are using for brandsuitability should I be
advertising on this podcast ordoes it talk about naughty
things?
If you look at a standardkeyword blocklist, 92 percent of
the podcast content from UrbanOne, which is a black podcast
network, was marked aspotentially problematic and it
couldn't be advertised on, eventhough actually the reality is

(33:13):
probably about 10 percent wasproblematic, not 92 percent.
So what was going on is thatthe tools didn't understand that
in black culture, you know, theword bomb means cool.
It's not talking about anexplosive device.
It didn't understand the accentand so therefore, instead of

(33:33):
that, it thought that somebodyhad said the word dead and
therefore thought, oh well,we're talking about death and
we're talking about conflict andblah, blah, blah, and so it
marked it as something that theycouldn't advertise on.
I mean really interesting stuff, and it does go to show that,
yes, a brand suitability toolmight work very well on polite

(33:53):
content from you know, frommiddle-aged white people, but it
doesn't necessarily understanddifferent cultures, which I
thought was a fascinating story.

Sam Sethi (34:05):
It's not the first time I did, if you recall, when
Google's AI image detectorcouldn't tell the difference
between a gorilla and a blackperson because of the way that
the AI had been trained.
We know that with LLMs largelanguage models unless you have
a cultural LLM, what it means inJapan and what it means in

(34:26):
America, you know.
Words and context are verydifferent, so you're going to
have to have cultural, localizedLLMs in order to understand you
know the differences, otherwisethis problem will be common
fare.

Yeah, absolutely , I mean, you know some
understanding of context, someunderstanding of you know, all
of that sort of side is veryimportant and you know I mean
it's a very important thing.
And you know I mean, who wouldhave thought that brand
suitability tools could beperhaps inadvertently, but could
be being racist?

(34:59):
But that's essentially what'sgoing on here.
So quite an astonishing storyand you know it does make you
wonder how many of those brandsuitability tools are basically
turning around and saying youknow, no, this is an unsuitable
podcast when it's absolutelysuitable and there's nothing

(35:19):
wrong with it whatsoever.
The question that I have iswhether or not the company that
was setting up these standardkeyword blocklists are now
legally liable, because UrbanOne have lost an awful lot of
money, you know, if systems weretelling advertisers that, no,
you can't advertise on this.
So yeah, I just found thatabsolutely fascinating story.

Sam Sethi (35:43):
Oh well, we'll find out if anyone actually takes
them to court.
Oh now, edison Research has anumber of reports out.
They reveal that the kids likelistening to podcasts.
29% of kids aged six to 12 inthe USA listen to podcasts.
I mean, my kids are much older,so I've missed the trend here.
Is this true?
I mean, are kids listening topodcasts, james?

Well, I mean, this is data from Edison
Research and so it's probablytrue.
I think that they interviewedthe parents, not the kids, but
apparently 87% of kids haveshared something that they
learned from a podcast withothers.
Let's hope they weren'tlistening to Joe Rogan.
The reports free to downloadfrom the Edison Research website
.
But there's clearly a lot ofmoney in kids, because only

(36:27):
yesterday we saw scriptedpodcast company Realm acquiring
the kids production companyPinner and also acquiring other
kids or rights to other kidsshows like Rebel Girls and Go
Kid Go.
So there's obviously a ton ofmoney in the kids podcast space.
But that's not the only datathat Edison Research has

(36:51):
released this week, is it?

Sam Sethi (36:52):
No, it's the first time that they've produced a
podcast metrics on a quarterlyranker.
And, no surprise, joe Rogan isstill number one, crime junkie
at number two, the daily atnumber three.
But a new entry.
I feel like going like flufffreedmen.
And a new entry with BadFriends, a comedy podcast from
Andrew Santino and Bobby Lee.
He says, oh, bobby Lee, like arubber ball comeback.

(37:15):
No, that's not the same BobbyLee, is it?
No, that's a very old reference.
There they interviewed 5,352weekly podcast consumers aged 13
plus.
So again, why have they comeout with this?
Is this something they're nowdoing?
That's a new thing for them,because everyone else has got a
ranker, or what is it?

No, so this is a ranker.
By the way, it was Bobby V, asyou well know, rubber ball.
So, yes, this is a ranker thatthey've been doing for some time
, but this is the first timethat they've actually had the
data to be able to produce thisjust for a quarter.
So, if you remember, a coupleof years ago they were producing

(37:55):
this, but it was a whole yearsworth of data that they had, and
so it was very much focused onthe podcast, which are always
there, like Joe Rogan and thedaily and crime junkie.
Now they've managed to get thatdown to six months and this is
the first time that they'veproduced just a quarters worth

(38:17):
of data.
They're interviewing fivethousand three hundred people
for that and, yeah, it's somegreat data.
And this is very different tothe other rankers that you see.
The other rankers, you have tosign up to be part of them.
You've probably got to pay tobe in those rankers as well.
You've got to put all kinds ofcode in there.

(38:38):
So PodTrack is one of thoserankers.
Triton Digital is another oneof those rankers, and those are
fine, but they don't listeverybody, whereas this lists
absolutely everything.
If you're a podcast, you'll bein it.
So it's always interestingseeing the data that comes out
of Edison podcast metrics Nowlet's take a zip around the

(38:59):
world very quickly.

Sam Sethi (39:00):
In Denmark, danish podcast translation company
Podster is to work with Finnishpodcast producer Sonoma Media to
produce Swedish language truecrime shows and translate them
into Finnish.
Hmm, okay, there you go.
The Scandies are working.

Yeah, they're a fascinating company, podster,
because what they're basicallydoing is they are taking
different shows that have beensuccesses in one part of the
world and they are translatingthose and putting those into the
right culture for other partsof the world.
So they've also done a dealwith a BBC show as well, making

(39:39):
Killing Victoria into a numberof different languages for new
markets there as well.
And they emailed me yesterdayto talk about Il dossier del
mistero, which is an Italianshow which they're making a
Spanish version of with acompany called Editorial Planeta
.
So there's a whole set of stuffthat Podster is doing in terms

(40:03):
of taking great shows in onelanguage and translating them
into a bunch of other languages,which, if you remember, was
kind of how Podimo first startedon the scene.
So a fascinating company towatch out for, I think, also
going on around the world.
In the UK, commercial TVbroadcaster ITV has renewed a

(40:24):
sales partnership with Globaland DAX for the podcast that
they produce everything fromLove Island to ITV news podcasts
and all that kind of thing andalso in the UK, octave IP, which
is a big collection ofdifferent companies, including
Rupert Murdoch's News UK andBauer Media.
They have signed a deal to selladvertising for Sirius XM and

(40:48):
Stitcher Media podcasts in thatcountry.
So things like Podsave the UK,for example, and others, which
seems a rather sensible deal.
And there's also a rathersensible production company here
in Australia, pro podcast,which has just made its 300th
podcast series, which is quiteimpressive.

Sam Sethi (41:07):
So, James Tummy, what's going on with the job
world this week?

Well, I'm glad you asked.
We've got a massive jobs boardas well.
You know PodNewsnet slash jobs.
It's the biggest in the podcastindustry.
All kinds of things going onthere, including Wondery hiring
for all kinds of people a seniorproducer for a weekly sports
podcast.
They're looking for a writerand producer and editor as well.
There's also jobs going atEddie Audio at

(41:33):
audiochuckpodnewsnet.
Slash jobs is where to go.
Also, we hear about threelayoffs in Marvel's podcast
division earlier on in the year.
Now, three layoffs doesn'tsound very much until you
realize that that was half ofthe entire podcast division at
Marvel.
So, gosh, a 50% shaving of thatparticular department is quite

(41:58):
a large thing.
And congratulations to LenaTopia.
If you remember, we've beenamazed at the amount of work
that Blueberry has done fairlyrecently Sticking all kinds of
new stuff into their dashboardand launching, you know, web
apps for their stats package andlots of support for the
podcasting 2.0 features andeverything else.

(42:20):
Lena Topia is the person who isresponsible for that.
She is CTO of Blueberry andshe's been rewarded with a seat
on the board of directors forthe company.
She's worked for the companysince 2015.
So many congratulations to her.
Good job, darn, I think Ifyou're looking for a job.
Podnews has podcasting jobsacross the industry and across

(42:41):
the world.
They're free to post.
It just takes two minutes toadd a new role.
You don't need to be asupporter of PodNews, although
we'd love you to do that too.
Just pop along and do it forfree at podnewsnet slash jobs.
The tech stuff on the PodNewsWeekly Review.
Yes, it's the stuff you'll findevery Monday in the PodNews
newsletter.
Here's where we do all of thetech talk, and I have a feeling

(43:05):
we're going to talk a little bitmore about BoosterGram Ball,
aren't we?
Sam?

Sam Sethi (43:09):
We are indeed.
I mean, look what Adam and Dave, I suppose, achieved with that
show was the pinnacle, really.
And, as we said earlier,history was made.
The reason it was so specialwas because every building block
required to get to that pointhad been made over the last
couple of years.
So let's unpack that a littlebit.

(43:31):
So, when you look at what Adamwas doing, he was doing a live
show.
In order to do a live show, youneeded the live item tag.
But before you could have thelive item tag, you needed
podping.
Before you could do that, youprobably needed chapters,
because you needed to put themusic into a chronological order
.
And then, on the other end ofthat, you needed this new thing

(43:53):
called the remote item tag.
All of these building blocksare part of the podcast 2.0
namespace.
And again, as I said to Adam inthe interview, did you have this
vision from day one?
And he said, yes, I had it from20 years back, but it's taken
me this long to get to thispoint.
And again, I think, when youand I looked at some of this

(44:13):
stuff and I'll be honest and sayI didn't have this as an end
vision Each building block to mewas just a way of making
podcasting better for me.
And I looked at podping and itwas like, oh, it's really
difficult.
Then I looked at remote item.
Do you remember when we weredoing pod roles, james?
We were looking at alldifferent ways and I couldn't
get my head around.
Why are you making this sodifficult?

(44:34):
Just list three podcasts and anOPML.
That'll work, won't it?
And all of this seems to havebeen well thought through.
Again, it just ended up onFriday.
Last week, we boosted theground ball being a result of
all of these building blocks.
And again, what do you think ofwhat Adam's done?

Yeah, I thought it was really clever and I mean,
there are so many spinningwheels in order to or spinning
plates, I should say to makethis thing work.
It was quite fantastic.
But yeah, I think it's a reallyinteresting, interesting idea.
It completely changes the waythat you, as a music artist, get

(45:17):
paid, and I think that'simportant to remember as well.
I mean, if you're a music artistat the moment, you get paid on
the radio in the United States.
You get nothing, zero, nada.
If you are a music artist andyou get played in places like
the UK, then you do get somemoney, but the money that you
get is absolutely tiny.

(45:37):
I mean, it's really reallysmall.
But with this, not only dolisteners directly pay you, or
they pay whoever you want to bepaid because it's up to you as
to who you put in the splits andall of that kind of stuff but
also it means that if listenersreally like what you're doing,

(45:58):
they can pay you more, which isa really interesting,
interesting idea.
So I'm planning on doing I wasonce a radio DJ a long, long
time ago I'm planning on doingone random music show and I have
a feeling that that is what itmight be called Literally, just
so I can play around andunderstand the.

(46:20):
It won't be live, but tounderstand the tools.
I'm not going to do it live butto understand the tools that I
need to actually get this up andrunning and give it a go.
But it's such an exciting time,I think, of just seeing new
interesting ideas going on inthe podcast world.

Sam Sethi (46:42):
Yeah, I mean talking of the tools, I mean obviously
you need to get a server that'sgoing to allow you.
You're not doing it live, so itdoesn't matter.
Actually, I was going to sayyou need a server to go live,
but you don't need that.
But Sovereign feeds from StevenBell's probably the best place
right now to go and start to dothis so you can go in and you
can use something called a splitkit and you can use something

(47:05):
called the value remote item toput the artists in and you can
create all of that with timesplits and everything else and
the amount.
And then you run that and it'squite amazing.
We've ingested into pod fansthat into the split of that show
and it just works.
We can't do it live but we doit in the post production when

(47:28):
it's played and it just worksand you just go.
It's using this thing called aGUID.
Again, if you want thetechnical way it's working.
It's literally like I'velikened it to like a hyperlink
in a web page.
So Adam talks it's livestreaming to the show, he's
earning sat and then suddenly hesays now I'm going to play

(47:48):
artist X and then suddenly itlooks at the GUID of that artist
, goes into their RSS, findstheir value block, finds their
wallet, looks at what Adam hassaid.
Here's how much I want todonate from that, from the live
stream.
That's what goes to them duringthat live stream and then,
since that's the tracks finished, it goes straight back to Adam
and the stream continues payingAdam.

(48:09):
I think that's pretty clever.

Yeah, I think it's very, very smart.
There's lots of clever stuffgoing on in there.
Is it actually getting back tothe artists?
That's the question.
Have you been looking andseeing whether any of the
artists played have said howmuch they're earning out of it?

Sam Sethi (48:28):
Yeah, one of the artists, ainsley Costello.
She tweeted I received 122,000sat on Wave Lake this week.
That's $36.
It would take me a year to make$36 on any streaming platform
aka Spotify.
She did give us an updateactually where she said here's

(48:49):
the mind blowing update twosongs two weeks on Wave Lake
$357,000,.
That's $104 compared to for heron 60 other streaming platforms
, just $22.
So I think she's a convert.
I think she loves what's goingon.
So, yeah, I can see this.

(49:11):
You know what it is it'swaiting for the penny to drop.
I think that the quote I lovethe best is the future is
already here.
It's just not very evenlydistributed, which was William
Gibson's famous quote, and Ithink that's true.
I think we've seen an historicmoment where people are just
beginning to wake up.
Hang on a minute.
This stuff works.
It's micro payments.

Yeah, no, I think there's definitely
something going on there and,yeah, I'm really looking forward
to seeing how that all pans out.
And of course, you need to havea supporting podcast app and of
course, you actually need to be.
You know, there's an awful lotof trust in this as well.
You don't have to pay to listen, but if you do choose to pay,

(49:55):
then you know that that money isactually going to the right
people.
So fascinating to keep an eyeon it and fascinating to have a
listen to the booster grand ball, which you should do in a
service like Podfans or Fountainor any of those other services,
just to make sure that all ofthe right people get paid, and

(50:18):
at least that way you'llunderstand a little bit more
about how the whole thing works.
But really cool.

Sam Sethi (50:23):
Now talking about people earning sat.
So we've talked about artists,we've talked about creators in
themselves, we're using it,micro payments and value splits
in another interesting wayYou're actually paying people in
terms of leaving you feedback,aren't you?

And bug spotting and all of that kind of stuff.

Sam Sethi (50:44):
Yeah, again, another way that people can get rewarded
for their time and attention orfor their value that they
create.
So in Podfans, we've justlaunched our feedback app and
what we decided to do was to payusers micro payments if they
put in a bug report or if theysuggested a new feature, and if

(51:05):
that's feature then gets addedto our roadmap, we will pay you
again.
So we'll pay you a micropayment just for the original
idea.
Everyone who votes gets alittle micro payment and then,
if we think that's a great ideaand we progress it into an
actual feature of our platform,we will pay you a larger amount.
So I think it's a way that wefeel we should reward our users

(51:29):
for their time, and we've alsowhich Dave Jones was interested
in we've created a blog platformthat uses micro payments.
So now on our blog, you I canwrite a post and you can zap.
The post is a way of voting forit or you can write a
boostergram and leave a comment.

(51:50):
So again, we're using thepodcasting 2.0 namespace tools,
but we're now putting also backinto a blog, which was the
original RSS, and you now canthen click on the RSS, export
that RSS to any way you wantwith, which is a podcasting 2.0
namespace extension.
So we sport the medium tag,which is we set to blog, we

(52:13):
sport the person tag, the value,block boosts, etc.
So, yeah, so micro formats ormicro payments.
I should say not micro formatsor something else.
Micro payments, yeah, areextending beyond just paying for
a podcast.

Now let's have a look at some events and awards,
and let's start with an eventwhich doesn't necessarily appear
to have read the roomparticularly well.
So we may have mentioned lastweek around the British podcast
awards, which were superannoying Some podcasters because

(52:49):
instead of charging 75 quid toattend the awards, they were
wanting to charge 300 quid,which is quite an increase.
Haymarket, who bought theawards last year, changed from
what I'm going to call a tent ina field to a fancy central
London venue.
You were in the tent in a fieldand you thought it was rather

(53:11):
splendid, I think, great for awedding venue.
I'd say yes, yes, exactly thatyou may remember from last week.
Well, they have changed theirmind and they've lowered ticket
pricing for the awards ceremonyin September.
Pricing now starts at 150 quid,not 300 quid, which is fine,
except, of course, tickets lastyear were 75 quid and really

(53:35):
quite a lot of people are stilla little bit upset about all of
this.
Michael Fenton Stevens is agreat comic actor in the UK and
has a number of great podcastsas well.
Well, he is grumbling onTwitter we have to be nominated,
which we have to pay for.
There are so many categories,and then I'd be happy to pay to

(53:56):
come to the ceremony ifnominated, but not to pay to be
considered.
So he's talking about theamount of money that he had to
pay to enter Barmy Dale Sitcom,who we've covered in pod news
also saying that it's a farce,and all of this.
Where do you stand on all ofthis, sam Well?

Sam Sethi (54:14):
again.
I think that what we're seeinghere is the corporatization of
this event.
Clearly, when I looked throughthe list of nominees and it's
worth looking at that list andcongratulate those that have
been already nominated I didfeel that it was very corporate.
70% of the entries were all BBCso I couldn't ingest those into

(54:39):
an open RSS platform and Ithink other people are very
angry.
Neil Velio, who's one of thefriends of the show, said Dear
Haymarket, thanks for ruiningthe British Podcast Awards.
Read the room.
Your 99% of your colleagueswon't be there.
Seems like Haymarket's answerto defending these absurd
pricing increases for tickets tothe BPAs is to say yeah, but

(55:01):
we're getting you drunk inCentral London.
Suggest you have a cheapervenue and charge more for drinks
.
I mean, I just think who is theevent for?
Is the event for podcasters oris the event for Haymarket?
That's where I think it's going.

Yes, well, you ended up speaking with somebody
who's been nominated multipletimes and is a previous British
Podcast Awards winner.
His message hurts Jake Warren.

The BPAs for me was one of my first entry points
into this magnificent industryFrom 2018, I think it was.
I've personally been a judgethe last four or maybe five
years and it was certainly oneof those for me personally, an
entry point into kind of reallygetting stuck into what has

(55:51):
become such a growing industrythe last few years.
But it always had that slightlycommunitarian feel to it of
this is a day of celebration,not just for yourself, but to
celebrate the wins and successesof others and as an industry as
a whole.
I look at it and with thepricing there, which we've got

(56:14):
enough corporate content awards,this doesn't need to be
corporate content awards 100.0.
The spirit of the Britishpodcasting awards, I felt, was
that it was a day out as anindustry.
It's fantastic to see peoplelike Idris Elba and other
amazing celebrities for half asecond on stage.

(56:35):
Actually, I'd much rather talkto the freelancer that worked
for us 12 months ago, 18 monthsago, on a particular project and
did an amazing job, and maybehe's also being honored on that
stage.
It feels to me slightlycounter-intuitive as to what
makes and did make.
I hope it's not just did make,but is what makes this industry

(56:56):
great because, yes, of coursethere's a degree of elbowing
each other when you're competingfor opportunities.
But also, I think this is anindustry which is naturally
cooperative, naturallycollaborative and where we can
share in the success and rise ofthis industry as a whole,
rather than it being everyone'smy enemy and we're all out to

(57:18):
get each other.
I don't feel that.
I think that, with the changingof this setting to a more
formal, evening, corporatey kindof feel, it's not reflective of
the industry.
I don't feel.

Sam Sethi (57:39):
No, and I think there's also a dress code for
the events.
So, again, I think everyone'sgoing to have to dress up a
little bit if they want to comealong to this thing, which again
feels very different to thefeel that I had from the last
two British podcast awards.

Definitely.
I mean last year.
It was Boiling Hot and it wasin Kennington Park and, to be
honest, last year was one of thehighs for me personally.
In a thrust as a company, wewon the best true crime award
last year, which is one of themost coveted things, and it was
Boiling Hot and I was wearing aterrible Hawaiian shirt and some

(58:17):
awful shorts.
I won because it was hot, thetwo because I didn't think we're
going to win, so I don't thinkI'll be able to.
I think I'll be turned away thedoor if I turn up dressing like
that, dressed like that thisyear.

Sam Sethi (58:27):
Even if you say I'm one of the judges, no, that
won't help.
Now, look, I went along to theambies in Vegas last well,
earlier this year and again thatfelt very corporatey.
It was very odd.
The whole event was like peoplehad flown in just for the event
, very dressed up and of course,lots of the companies were all

(58:50):
Americans.
And that's why I renamed theambies the American podcast
award, so nothing to do with theglobal awards, the World Series
of Awards, whatever you want tocall them.
And again that felt verycorporatey and very, you know,
the big companies won, likeWondry, etc.
And it felt like many of theindependents weren't being

(59:11):
considered.
And I think, if I look at itagain, I think the British
podcast awards wants to mirrorthe ambies and go for the big
Sony's and the big companies andthe Amazons and say, look, hey,
look, we're here for you, we'regoing to give you awards, give
us sponsorship money for ourfuture events or for this event,
and I think is a quid pro quo.
So they have, though, to befair to them, come out with a

(59:36):
statement of what they want todo, based on, I assume, not just
you and I, but many otherpeople giving them feedback.
They've said small companiesnow will get a ticket price at
£118 plus fat, medium companies£165 and large companies £255.
Which ones do you buy for?

Sadly it's the big company, so it's the, because
the way in which they've sort ofstratified it there's not, it's
quite.
They're not big bands, shouldwe say.
And I was looking at it earlierand I was thinking, you know,
we're a company of 25-ish people, sort of full time.
If I wanted to pay for everysingle person in my company to

(01:00:17):
have that day out in celebrationtogether amongst ourselves,
it's going to cost me over£7,500.
And I think, to your point,there's a space for, you know,
the big glitzy evening.
I don't know what the rightword to describe it is.
I don't want to say corporate,because that's not what I mean,

(01:00:39):
but you know, in terms of itbeing a little bit more classy,
for one sort of better word, youknow where you wear your glad
rags and all these eveningthings.
That's fine, there's a spacefor that.
But I don't think it should beat the expense or the
envelopment of what waseffectively quite grass roots,
quite communitarian, as I said,because what they've done is by

(01:01:03):
buying the awards and thentrying to pivot and turn it into
something else.
What's the space left for that,other than going to the pub or
at ordering each other?
You know, in that way, which isfine, and I think, look, I'm a
company that's learning aboutthis, right?
You know we're a big company.
I suppose in the UK podcastingindustry, this is going to
affect individuals andfreelancers far more than it

(01:01:26):
affects us.
You know, if I'm complainingabout it and I have the luxury
of, you know, having what theyclass as a big company, imagine
how that trickles down theladder in terms of the people
that are just freelancers.
You know, I noticed the reallygood point being made by Talia
Augustidis, who is, you know,rightly nominated for the Rising
Star Award because she is asuperstar, which I'm sure she'll

(01:01:51):
thank me for saying.
That she said openly I can'tafford to go to something which
may well be one of the crowning,you know, accomplishments for
my career so far, because theprice is, you know it's
astronomical.
You know, I understand they mayhave a Bursary Award scheme now
which I think you have to applyfor.

(01:02:12):
I don't know how to look intothat in truth, but I think for
me also if I think about it.
You know we are nominated thisyear, so I don't want us to make
it seem like it's just completesale grapes that we didn't get
any nominations.
So I'm having a moment Exactly,but we, you know I think it's
six or seven including me wespent time to be judges this
year, which there was a lot moreof workload, just a small thing

(01:02:35):
, like you know, not having acomplimentary ticket.
So you know, I'm not sayingpeople should be paid for things
like that, but recompensingthat you spend some time and
invest in effort, time to thinkabout your peers and who should
win, and then to get no sort ofrecognition to that, I think, is

(01:02:55):
a shame.

Sam Sethi (01:02:56):
Yeah, I mean, look, they're offering writing not
star nominees and all of thesmall companies that have been
shortlisted, one free ticket.
Say again, you know, if you're,if you're wanting to bring a
partner along or you want tobring several of your people
from your small company, you'reinto, you know, still a sizable
amount of money.
Look, it will either be one ofthose events where they live and

(01:03:19):
learn and you know, they getthe big companies coming along,
but it's not supported by themajority of the industry.
All people will, you know, bitethe bullet and say, okay, well,
I just want to be there, I'mgoing to pay the 255 pounds, or
118 pounds depending on the sizeof your company, and, you know,
next year it will be a glowingsuccess.

(01:03:40):
But it will be interesting tosee.
I know Matt Deegan and Matt hispartner, who put on the
original Rich podcast awards,are still involved.
It'll be interesting to see,once they're out of their golden
handcuffs, having sold thepodcast awards over to, you know

(01:04:00):
, to Pod Pod, whether they willthen run a original BPA award
again.
Rename it, restart it, re, makeit independent.
Who knows, that might be theway it goes.

Jake Warren (01:04:13):
Yeah, it's.
Look, I don't want to be soundtoo much like Sal Grape, so I'm
only mentioning that you knowit's a vast expense because you
know the awards themselves Richpodcast awards, I feel, have
always been the crowning awardsthat we have.
This is an issue particularlyin this country.
It's always the one that I feltwas to be sort of coveted

(01:04:36):
beyond all the other ones intruth.
But I think at some point, likewe were talking about, you know
, price does has to become afactor, because you know we were
lucky enough to win a corporatecontent award the other week on
behalf of one of our clients,v-malfolio, and you know that's
a fantastic achievement andthere's a place for that.
But when the corporate contentawards cost more, cost less to

(01:04:59):
go to than the British podcastawards, I think something has
gone badly wrong.

Sam Sethi (01:05:03):
Well, I feel, as I said earlier, pod Pod may be
looking at.
Let's have a big glitzylocation, DJ, drinks and
everything else.
I'm wondering who they'retrying to make look good.
Is it they're trying to makethe podcasters look good or
themselves?
Yeah, that's just an opinion.

I would rather stand in a park with the rest of
the industry than stand inblack tie with no one.

Sam Sethi (01:05:26):
Well, I'll stand with you, Jake, don't you worry,
I'll stand with you.
Jake Warren, md, and CEO ofthat message.
Thanks so much, mate.
Speak to you soon.
No, I speak to you soon.

James Cridland (01:05:35):
Jake Warren.
Not a happy man, gosh.
I mean, the list of nominees isworth taking a look at, so
congratulations to them and theeventual winners as well.
The British podcast awards hasbeen very much part of the
industry for a number of yearsnow, so he's hoping that
Haymarket look after it.
But yeah, I always find itstrange when you get original

(01:05:59):
audio like the BBC or likeAudible, which are only
available on their own platforms.
To me that's not really what apodcast is.
But I suppose they've paid theentrance fee, so who knows?

Sam Sethi (01:06:15):
Yeah, Now, moving on the ambies, talking about awards
, the American podcast awards,as I like to call them, are now
open for entry.
It'll be good to see if anyonefrom outside of the USA actually
gets nominated or gets an award.
But yes, they are the ambies.

Yes, and why not ?
I was at the awards last year,which was nice, I should point
out.
I didn't pay $300 to get in, orindeed quid.
So there we are.
What else has gone on?
There's the audio productionawards, there's the People's
Choice podcast awards, which youcan go and vote for now, online
podcast awardscom and the BlackPodcast Awards has announced

(01:06:59):
Erica Cobb as its inaugural leadjudge.
She is a TV star on somethingcalled Daily Blast Live, which
is the only live TV show on bothcoasts in the US, apparently.
Anyway, applications close onAugust 7.
So you've got a little bit moretime, and if you want a
discount code to save you $10 onyour entry and the entries are

(01:07:22):
already quite cheap then you canuse Cobbler.
I'm not quite sure why they'vechosen Cobbler, but anyway you
can use that and give that $10to us in terms of a boost as
well.
So that would be good.
In terms of events, podcastmovement in Denver is happening.
I will be out, looking forwardto being there August 21 to the
24th.

(01:07:42):
In Colorado, the Mile High City, I'm told it's called.
Mile High to me means somethingcompletely different.
So there we are, probably moveon from that.
And Podcast Day Asia ishappening in Kuala Lumpur in
Malaysia on September 6.
It's part of a big Radio DaysAsia event which is going on

(01:08:05):
there.
The number one podcast fromMalaysia will be there as well
as me I am not that and KimTreasure from Audacia and many
more people as well.
So you can find out moreinformation at podcastdayasiacom
.
And, of course, pod News Liveis happening 27th of September.
Pod Newsnet slash live is whereto grab tickets for that.

(01:08:29):
Very much looking forward tothat, sam.
That should be a good day.

Sam Sethi (01:08:34):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it too.
I mean, as we say, we've gotkeynote speakers from A-Cast,
from Podimo, from Folder Media,so Matt Deegan is going to be
there, naomi Meller from theInternational Podcast Awards,
jake, who you just heard fromfrom Message Heard.
We've got Sean Glenn fromNovell, kirsty Hunter, Jake

(01:08:55):
Davenport from Gold HangerPodcasts, who do the rest is
Politics and History Podcasts,persefonica, dino Sofa.
So from the news agent, we'vegot the guys from City
University there, lowest StreetMedia, harry Morton, and then
we've got a few apps, so Oscaris going to be there with
Fountain.
So, look, it's going to be abrilliant business to business

(01:09:17):
day.
This is a business forum wherewe're going to be talking about
what's going on in the industrylive, hearing from real experts
who are doing it day to day.
Come along, ask them questions,listen.
The one we did in Manchesterhad great feedback.
I suspect this will be equallygood.
So, yeah, just go along topodnewsnet forward slash live.

(01:09:39):
Grab a ticket.
They aren't £300, they're noteven £50, james, they're just
£30.
So sorry, I sound like a barrowboy there for a second, but yes
, it's the day before theBritish Podcast Awards.
So if you are coming intoLondon then you can use your
time effectively.
Come and see us stick aroundfor the evening, have a drink
with all of us and then pop overto the BPAs if you want.

James.
Yeah, no, I think it's afantastic thing, so very much
looking forward to that.
There are more events, bothpaid for and free, at Podnews
virtual events or events in aplace with people.
If you're organising something,you can tell the world about it
.
It's free to be listed.
You don't have to be asupporter or anything.
So go to podnewsnet slashevents Boostagram.

Adam Curry (01:10:21):
Corner.
Corner Corner On the PodnewsWeekly Review.

Oh, it's time for our favourite time of the
week.
It's Boostagram Corner and abunch of boosts.
Let's read the one from now.
Brian, how do I pronounce yoursurname?
Entsminger?
Entsminger, no.

I'd go with the first one, I'd go.

OK, let's go with the first one.
Entsminger, you're sure that'sbeen of a binger.

Sam Sethi (01:10:48):
Oh, I have no idea.
I'm sure Brian will tell us.

Anyway, yes, I'm sure he will in terms of a
boost.
He's given us a 1701 Satz,which is presumably something
American, and he said regardingon what to call podcasting at
the risk of being the old guywith the tinfoil hat on, this is
why the blurring of linesbetween the distribution method
and the content and format ofthe show actually matters and

(01:11:11):
why what YouTube is trying to doto the word podcast is making
it even more difficult.
He says I don't think we need anew word for podcast and if you
remember, rebecca Sananez waskind of jokingly saying that we
should do.
Brian says I think we shouldstart saying I make a show about
cheese.
It's available as a podcast onall of the popular podcast apps

(01:11:35):
or on YouTube, if you prefer thevideo version.
It's a language shift which isslight, but Brian says I think
it's important, that'sinteresting.
So you basically say it'savailable on on your podcast
apps or it's also available onYouTube, exactly.

Sam Sethi (01:11:51):
I think that's quite a nice way of doing it.
I think you'll be the same whenwe say and it's available on
Twitter or X and available onTikTok, but it isn't a podcast
particularly.
Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, no, indeed , Dave Jones sent us a massive,
great big boost 21,112 sats.
Great interview with RebeccaSam.
I would agree.
I found that really, reallyinteresting.
I went through that entire,that entire interview and it was
a fascinating thing.
And Gene Bean as well.
Double, two, double, two sats,a row of ducks Another great

(01:12:24):
show.
He says I particularly enjoyedthe interview this week.
Again, that's another one,another one on you.
So, yeah, all good stuff.
Thank you very much.
If you get value from what we dothe Pod News Weekly Review is
separate from Pod News, sam, andI share everything from it.
We really appreciate yoursupport so we can continue
making this show.
You can become a powersupporter if you want, with your

(01:12:45):
Mastercard or your Visa card,your Fiat currency that old
fashioned thing atweeklypodnewsnet,
weeklypodnewsnet.
Or you can support us with satsby hitting the boost button in
your podcast app and if youdon't have one, podnewsnet slash
new podcast apps will help youfind a new app.
So you're still here, sam.

Sam Sethi (01:13:04):
I'm still here this week this hasn't crashed, so
what's happened for you thisweek?
Well, generally working on podfans, but I had a little bit of
a distasteful moment on LinkedIn.
Again, I use LinkedIn, I'mlooking for stories.
I saw this guy from the brutaltruth podcast.

(01:13:25):
He put out a post that said I'mgoing to say these isn't a
symbol of success if you have todrive it to a job you hate.
And I thought, fair enough.
And I thought I've got a nicecar that I drive to a job I love
, and that was it.
And he started to put a racistcomment to that and I basically
didn't take well to that.
So, yeah, whoever you are whoruns the brutal truth, you're

(01:13:45):
blocked on pod fans.
You will not be allowed onthere and I suggest that until I
get an apology for your racistcomment, you will stay that way
as well.
That's LinkedIn for you yescesspit of cesspit of hate and
bile Normally.
Yes, no, it's not this, justone person.
It was just.
It was.
It was just weird.

(01:14:06):
I mean, he claims to have744,000 followers and you think
you know somebody fundamentally.
I listened to half an episodeof his podcast and if you're
stupid and gullible to buy hissnake oil sales techniques, then
good luck to you.

Well, yes, there's a thing, yes, it's.
I spend very little time onLinkedIn, it's.
It's normally full of.
It's normally full of, yes,people bragging about their
horrible businesses.
So now, James, so what?

Sam Sethi (01:14:38):
happened for you.
Let's move on.
What happened for you?

I have been.
I have been rather boringlydoing lots of technical, you
know, fixing lots of technicaldebt.
So there's bits on the pod newswebsite that have never worked
particularly well, so I've beenfixing a lot of that, changing a
lot of the of the back endstuff Very, very dull, but still

(01:15:03):
it's kind of stuff that needsto be done, I guess, and doing.
One thing that I ended up doingwas doing a little automated
script that goes and checkswhether some of the old stories
that I linked to are still thereand if they're not, then it
will automatically go and findthose stories from the web
archive instead, which has beena really interesting learning

(01:15:28):
experience.
So perhaps more on that in apersonal blog post at some point
, but that's it for this week.

Sam Sethi (01:15:35):
Thank you to our guests Adam and Jake.
You can give us feedback byusing email to weekly at
podnewsnet or send us aboostergram.
If your podcast app doesn'tsupport Boost, then grab a new
one at podnewsnet.
Forward slash a new podcastapps.

Our music is from Studio Dragonfly, our
voiceover is Sheila Dee andwe're hosted and sponsored by
Pod News Live and Buzz Proud.
Podcast hosting made easy.
Get updated every day.
Subscribe to our newsletter atpodnewsnet.

Adam Curry (01:16:07):
Tell your friends and grow the show and support us
and support us.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
The Pod News Weekly Review will return next week.
Keep listening.

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