July 27, 2025 • 45 mins
I had the absolute honour of sitting down with Adrian Date, a man who spent nearly 20 years as an intensive care paramedic. I've always wanted to chat with an ambo, and this chat went to places I never expected!
Adrian tells me about the time he drove straight into a brawl between two bikie gangs, shares a deeply personal story behind his tattoo, and we talk about the heartbreaking privilege of being with someone in their final moments.
I LOVED this chat - and I hope you do too!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
little retro caravan from 1967 that I've tore around all over
the place. Fan podcast with Rabbit.
My guest for today is Adrian Day.
Welcome in. Thanks, buddy.
Thanks for coming down. Tell people what you used to do
and what you're doing now. Yeah, I used to be intensive
care paramedic in NSW, Hamblards.
That was nearly 20 years that I was in the job with that.
(00:31):
And during that time I also started vital first aid.
So training first aid courses and CPR courses, et cetera.
I have always wanted to get AI think I called them ambulance
officers in my brain. Yep, that's not a real term, is
it? Look, we used to call ourselves
ambos, yes, but now everyone's called a paramedic, so.
I've always wanted to have one here in the van, so thank you.
(00:54):
You are taking that off the list.
I've also, I've just recently recorded with a Fiery.
I've always wanted a firefighterin here, but I know that there's
no, no way I'm gonna get them inbecause it needs to be cleared
with higher up. Yeah.
And they'll go. Not at all.
No. Just worried about what's gonna
come out or whatever. The one I spoke to, the Fiery,
he's out now with the PTSD so hecan.
Billy Mack. Yeah.
(01:14):
You know Billy Mack. He's one of my trainers.
Is he? Yes.
Amazing. Did you know he'd been in here?
I think he mentioned about it, yes.
Yeah, like it's like the highlight of his year or
something. Like, absolutely phrase it.
That's all he talks about, yeah.I can imagine poor Billy, his
episode keeps getting pushed back all the time.
Other things keep coming up. But what a great chat.
(01:36):
And he will be in again. And then also police.
I want a police officer in, but again, can't be someone
currently serving. Yeah, but I, I truly, I believe
emergency service workers are just heroes.
Absolute heroes. Yeah, Look, it, it's certainly
one of those jobs that we don't get a whole lot of credit for.
(01:59):
And I think probably even more so nowadays.
They cops so much grief from people on the road.
People are going to. Jobs that they go to.
Yep. Look, when I was in the job I
can remember I did very early inmy career, went to a a a brawl
between the Compitos and Bandidos down in the cross.
And I was very, very junior. My training officer drove us
(02:20):
into the scene, which was the wrong thing to do.
But anyway, we're in. There, hang on in an ambulance.
In an ambulance? Yep.
There's a big brawl broken out between a couple of biker gangs.
Let's just drive the ambulance and that's.
When driving, Yep, as we're driving in, we get notification.
The police have told us to standdown, not to go in and we're
just driving straight in. But anyway, we got in there and
(02:41):
I actually started looking aftera guy that had a stab wound and
I was about to take his leather jacket.
Off. Oh no, you don't do that.
I was 19, I had no idea. Try and take this leather jacket
off. Oh no, I got picked up, got a
little wet patch between my legsbecause I just wet basically wet
myself. And you know what was going on.
I didn't actually, but felt likeit.
And one of the other bikies cameover and said no, no, no, put
(03:01):
him down, put him, put me back down.
And he said, look, don't they take the colours off?
It's the wrong thing to do and all sort of thing.
Looked at me. He said you're OK.
The guy that picked me up, I thought I was going to be
killed, Pat me on the back. He said, mate, are you OK?
I'm really sorry, didn't mean todo that.
Didn't realize who you were. Put me down.
And they then proceeded to smasheach other up again.
But back then, we're really we're a protected.
(03:23):
Just two guys that you're talking about.
They were opponents, wow. But while they were sort of
making sure I was okay, their best of mates, basically they
they, their focus would make sure the ambo was okay.
You good? Okay, well, you stand aside,
we're back into it. Has the attitude to ambos
changed over the years? Look, in my career, I saw it.
It changed. I, I don't know, I, I, the
(03:46):
entitled generation we all talk about.
I, I, I really don't know. But I remember I did a job to
stand here in Gosford and we turned up and as soon as we
turned up we got attacked by thepatient and the, the girlfriend
of the, the patient because we weren't getting out of the
ambulance quick enough. And I thought, or you start
approaching the ambulance reallyquickly, aggressively, I'm going
to wind the windows up and lock the door, what?
(04:07):
Just that type of thing. And that doesn't happen all the
time by any means. But certainly the IT seems to be
getting worse. And I'm in still in contact with
a lot of current ambulance officers and it's like the same
sort of thing. I sent you a few questions over
e-mail and you're Yep, go ahead with those.
And now I'm going to have so many more so.
That's fine. What's happening now is in my
(04:29):
brain I'm thinking of all these things I've always wanted to
ask. Here's a random one.
Why does so many ambos have tattoos and so many tattoos is.
There an. Answer on that.
I don't know, I got my sleeve start there and finishes up
there. That that is, you'd be the least
tattooed up and I've ever seen. I've never actually noticed
(04:51):
that. I have, I, I don't know, maybe
that's just me, maybe I'm completely wrong, but I, I seem
to always notice lots of tattoos, lots of sleeves and
stuff and I'm like, what's goingon there?
Well. For me, there's many in that.
Yeah. And that sort of there is with
pretty much every tattoo, I think.
Yeah, yeah. But then something I haven't
haven't noticed. Is that one anything to do with
(05:11):
the job? Yeah, it is.
That's a semi colon. So rather than a full stop
suicide to to go with a a pause,rather than to commit suicide to
just take a breath, try to reevaluate everything.
Is that to you? To me, yeah, I, I went through a
pretty, pretty dark spot 1516 years ago where suicide was,
(05:35):
Look, it, it, it wasn't on the agenda, but it could have been
for me. I went through a bitty dark
spot. But I've also lost a few mates
in the ambient service for suicide.
So that's something that, you know, that pause to me is a
pretty important thing and also reminds me where to take my
pulse. Oh wow, also kind of figure you
should probably know that by nowand not need a.
(05:58):
He need a guide, right? Here.
That's exactly right. It's.
Like on the planes, when you're on a plane and you look out the
window at the wing, it's been written on the wing.
It's got like no step here, Don't do not step here or
something on the I'm like, if you are on the wing, surely you
know where you're meant to step and not.
I think you're working on an aeroplane, You should know.
(06:19):
I know when I'm up in the roof of my house, I know it's step on
the trusses. Don't step on the bed in between
you'll fall through. Someone working on an aeroplane,
they should know. It always concerned me that
exactly if I sorry nambo with ontheir own wrist and then go take
pulse here. Like.
Come on, you should full. Full of confidence, yeah.
(06:41):
That's right, the mental health side of things.
Where I got to talking to Billy Mack, the ex Fiery was I was
waiting for a guest down Gosfordwaterfront and the fire engine
pulled up. Bunch of blokes got out.
I just started chatting to them.I told them I've always wanted
to get one of them in there, butI said to them right up front, I
know you're not gonna be able to.
I'm not. This is not me asking because
(07:01):
you're not gonna be able to. I just know you'd have amazing
stories and I'd love to know what it's like the life of a
firefighter. And it was through that that
they went, we've got a guy. Coming back, yeah, we've got a.
Guy and they gave me his number then, but talking to them off
the record, I was asking about the the mental health side of
(07:23):
things. And when that's like, I got a
feeling from them that it's actually, there's actually a lot
of support in the firefighter side more so than like police.
Yeah. Look, I think all the services
have changed significantly. When I first was in the job,
there wasn't the support. It was really a case of all you
got to put up with it, get on with it or get out.
(07:46):
Yeah, that was the attitude of alot of senior officers in the
service. I can remember I did a job here
at Kincumber where we had to askfor support and it took quite a
while to get that. And the support that we're given
was pretty poor. You as ambos were ambos asking
for support. Yep, you'd be messed up by
something you'd seen. Yeah, pretty unpleasant job.
(08:07):
And yeah, we asked for for support and that took a couple
of weeks to actually occur. And there's a whole lot of
issues that occurred around that.
But I caught up with a couple ofpolice officers that went to it
as well, and they'd actually been taken off the road for a
good period of time to make surethat they were OK.
Did you feel that? Was that a car?
Oh, this car is right. I just felt something down and I
(08:28):
went. Did I lock the car it's attached
to mess up the drive off mobile fan?
Oh, that's funny. No, we couldn't do it.
Have we got seatbelts? Maybe you couldn't do a roving.
Oh my God, You just. Blood by the Federal Coast Road.
You'd be falling in potholes allthe time.
I need to look into that. I'll go to alright, I'll find my
(08:50):
police contacts and find out. I wonder if that's a thing?
Tindy on the windows just so, but they can't see in here,
they're sitting. On the windows, yeah, you can't
see it 'cause in like when you driving around with motorhome,
I'm pretty sure you can have like the kids in the in the back
of it or whatever with a seat belt on.
Yeah, well, might. I might have, I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, well, we definitely didn't do that then.
If it's not a think you can do back in the day, though.
(09:13):
Back in the day you just roll around in the back of the Holden
station wagon with the CNG, the.Kids would be in the back
playing on the floor. Totally, Yeah, I would roll
around in the back of the Kingswood, like literally I'm
lying in the back there 'cause it wasn't enough room for us in
in the bench seat thing. And I'm rolling around them.
It's just smell. And Daddy's like the CNG tanks
(09:34):
got a little bit of a little bitof a leak just getting gassed in
the back of this car. Makes the trip go faster.
That it's fine. I turned out all right.
Yeah, OK, I guess. So things will be changing.
They'll definitely be changing as far as attitudes towards
mental health and giving support.
A. 100% I can't obviously speak for the fire or, or, or police,
(09:58):
but I know the ambulance serviceis certainly improving things.
The the new boss has got his biggest priority is making sure
that the troops are, are kept healthy.
Because we do see some pretty awful crap.
People often used to say to me or still say to me, oh, you must
see some terrible things. That's not so much what we see.
You know, that, that to me and everyone is obviously different,
(10:18):
but to me, that's just part of the job.
But it's what we feel, that empathy that we have for
patients, patients, family, things like that.
That's for me anyway. That's what really affected me
in the job, that that what we feel as opposed to what we see.
But that comes from what you see, doesn't it?
Yeah, but it's more the the actual emotions around the
(10:39):
scene. Right, I get it.
So it's not necessarily so there's been a car accident or
something. It's not necessarily the
injuries that person's got or whatever.
And that it's the when mum comesalong in tears and falling
apart, yeah. I think most, nearly all ambos
will be able to distinguish between the, the clinical side
of things. You know, I've been in
situations, particularly when mykids were very young, where, you
(11:02):
know, you go to a pediatric or baby cardiac arrest and it was
the initial role of those horrible emotions, sort of
thinking it could be your child.And also thing I think for for
most of us, very, very quickly that gets put to the side.
I've got something clinical I'vegot to do here and you get on
with the job and you do it. But it's afterwards where you
start thinking, you know, the brain does terrible things to
us. You start thinking all the worst
(11:22):
things like I move. I, I did an arrest here at
Battle Bay with a pediatric and the job itself went very well
and got the patient to, to Gossip hospital.
We're living at Nara at the timeand it's probably about 2:00 in
the morning. I had to go home.
I had to go home to make sure that my little girl who was much
the same age, about 3 months of age, make sure that she was OK.
(11:44):
I wasn't popular because she wasasleep and of course I'd turn up
and wake everyone up. But it was just that type of
thing that you do. It hits home, I think,
particularly when you've had kids as well, prior to having
kids. It was just another job, so
it's. Amazing what having kids does to
you. Oh, what a big silk you can
become. It's yeah, it's good, but it's
(12:05):
it comes with its downsides to. Do you follow up afterwards and
find out how people are or wouldyou?
I used to like to to a point, but with some situations you
sort of just want to close it off and without sending off or
it's, you know, 99% of the jobs are just a job.
You do the job and you go off. You set sometimes follow up just
(12:26):
to find out whether your hunch for what might have been wrong
with the patient is correct. So you might sort of chat to the
A&E staff or intensive care unitat Gosford or something like
that. But occasionally you might sort
of follow it up by actually going and visiting them in
hospital, but not very often. You said before about the
suicide rates back when what, 10-15 years ago 0202020 Wow OK.
(12:52):
I interviewed a couple of vets recently, vet nurses and a vet
and a vet nurse, and they actually said that that is the
highest rate as far as an occupation goes.
You know, I've got a friend of mine that's a vet.
She's been a vet for a very longtime.
And I get it like it's, you know, we had a situation where
our dog was poisoned quite a fewyears ago.
(13:14):
And when you get to the vet and they say, OK, well, today's
going to cost you $1200. And that's just the start of
things. It could be a lot more and.
We don't even know if the dog's going to make it.
Exactly. And you go, certainly, yeah,
we're in the fortunate position that we could just afford that.
We had pet insurance as well andall that sort of stuff.
But to have to make that decision, and I get it, some
people have to make a decision, well, we can't afford it and put
(13:36):
their their. Or they do and then the dog
doesn't make it and then they get accused of not doing enough.
Yeah, you could have. Done more I.
Guess it's that, but I think it's just the vet looking at the
the the family going you know, they they know how much they
love that animal and not being having to put the dog down or
the cat down. Yeah, that that you.
(13:57):
Can't just leave that at work. You can't.
You can't just go well, finish work.
Yep, exactly. Off home, go watch some TV and
start. With you're gonna go with you.
Are they saying that it's getting better?
I know the Fieries definitely said that.
They said it's getting better. You're saying with the ambos
it's getting better. You know, it's like with school
teachers at the moment, there's a real shortage of school
teachers because there's so manyteachers saying how horrible it
(14:18):
is and how much it's changed. And what happens then as word
gets down to people that are going to, I want to be a teacher
and then a couple of teachers tell them, Oh God, don't.
It's the worst. Like you, you know, because of
the way it's changed and it's all red tape and there's so much
ticking boxes and everything. And, and so then let's get into
it. And that's what's happening with
there's a real shortage of vets and, and vet nurses.
(14:40):
Their kids want to get into it and, and the vets go, don't.
I would not want you in this profession so if you can look
after them and give them supportmentally to help them.
I think the recognition of mental health is, is becoming
much better nowadays. People understand it.
I still think we've got a long, long way to go now.
(15:01):
You, you, you talk to people, they sort of say, oh, well,
what, what did you used to do? And say, look, there's an ambo.
Why did you leave? Like why aren't you doing the
job? I left because PTSD and you can
sort of see the head drop down and they, they want to change
the conversation. It's still that conversation
people don't like to have. I'm lucky I've got a fantastic
support network around me, both ambos, people like Billy Mack
(15:23):
family, certainly amazingly supportive for me.
And I'm, I'm, I'm good. But there's plenty of people out
there that find it difficult to talk to other people.
But it's also talking about whatwe we see and what we're feeling
because we don't want to pass that on that trauma to other
people as well. And that's the biggest thing.
You know, I've been to a few counsellors and one of the the
(15:45):
things that adds to my stress isthinking that I'm going to be
adding to their stress and the stuff that we see, people
shouldn't see, people, stuff that we do, people shouldn't be
doing. Well I I actually had no idea
about your PTSD until you said that just then.
I'm lucky, you know, because I've worked my way through it.
I still get breakthroughs every now and then.
(16:06):
My daughter had a pretty, prettynasty accident last year and
that really brought everything back.
And you sort of feel guilty thenbecause it's it's not about me.
It's about what she went through.
But it still effects people. And I think that for me,
certainly, you know, I was lucky, I got bit of support and
treatment and, and also they work the way through it.
But PTSD, it's always there. It doesn't go away.
(16:27):
I don't fully understand it. And I'm Billy Mac.
That's what he's coming back forfor another episode.
We we talked around it a little bit.
We talked a lot. And at the end of it, I was
like, oh, I actually want to know more about that.
And he's like, I'm keen to jump in for another chat.
So I'm going to get into that and unpack it a bit more so that
people do can understand it more.
And so for when that moment comes where someone says to you
(16:50):
that, you know, I've got PTSD, that you don't go, oh, I don't
know what, I don't know what to say and change the topic or
whatever, that you can sort of know how to how to respond to
that when someone says it. I think it's like all mental
health. There's no, you know, there's no
sort of specific box that PTSD fits into.
Everyone suffers differently. And I, yeah, Billy and I have
got a really good relationship that way where we, we, you know,
(17:13):
we've hugged and cried over situations together because we,
you know, similar sort of background.
But I think there's just so manydifferent ways that PTSD effects
people. For me, one particular incident,
I had a, an amnesiac period of the job where it was almost like
a, a film cut and splice. I had so much emotion out of
(17:34):
that job, but I couldn't work out why I was affected by the
job because it didn't seem that it was from what I could
remember, it was clinical. It wasn't.
I had a bit of hypnotherapy thatit it pulled that memory back
out and I realized, oh, okay, this.
Was so you didn't have the memories of the things.
No. It you just had the.
It was like, like a cut and splice of film where, as I say,
(17:58):
I had so much emotional, you know, people I'd start to talk
about and I'd just break down. But I'm thinking.
But what I did was, you know, 123.
That wasn't that bad. It was just a normal job.
Yeah, yeah. The the the outcome of it wasn't
what we wanted, but that's just the nature of our job.
Yeah, but I didn't realize it was actually a lot more in there
as well. That was all stuffed in a box,
(18:19):
wasn't it? It was it just you?
Your brain protects yourself. Yeah, that's what my brain was
doing. I'm going to be doing an episode
with Heather Irvine Randall fromthe Reed Clinic.
Yep, a psychologist, 'cause you know, you know everybody.
Every name I bring up, she's been on a bunch of episodes.
And she actually emailed me justthe other day and said, hey, do
you want to do an episode on howyour childhood trauma affects
your adulthood trauma? Oh yeah, yeah.
(18:43):
Because I know Julie Goodwin, she's been good mate, been in
here a million times. When she talked about the her
book that she brought out, that was a big part of the therapy
with Heather. And it's like, I only know like
10 people and they all know eachother.
But yeah, when she started getting Julie to go into things
from her childhood that Julie just didn't even, I didn't even
(19:04):
know stuff and stuff in the box for so long.
You do, you do stuff in the box and you know, it's that brain
protecting yourself but just notprocessing it.
And for me, I know that. Yeah, some of that emotion was
really, it was like it was today's incident, but it was way
back then. So just just processing it to to
make it a historical thing as opposed to something that's
(19:26):
current. Is that something that happened
in, like, therapy and that, yeah, you actually have to
remember and relive those moments and then does that help?
It, it does for the, the treatment that I've had
recently. Well, last year, certainly it,
it did because it made me realize, you know, those
emotions that I was having that trauma.
Yeah, it, it's not present, it'shistorical.
(19:47):
So you got to push it back rightto that.
And I guess also for me, it was understanding it, recognizing
it, but also understanding that it, it, it's genuine.
It's just part of me. So that what you're talking
about there is very similar to the thing that with Heather and
Julie and the thing that they worked on.
And they're both fine for me to talk about all this because it's
in the book. And Heather has said, yes, talk
(20:08):
about the stuff as much as you can because she said I can deal
with people. One-on-one, one by one in
meetings, you can reach thousands of people through
talking about this stuff. So yeah, the thing with Julie is
Julie thinks she's driving the bus, but there's constantly all
these other Julies in the other seats that are wanting to take
the wheel. And you've got teenage Julie
(20:29):
that's trying to be the perfectionist and absolutely get
everything right and the reasonswhy she's like that.
And then there's the, what did she say?
49 brought the wine? 39 brought the wine.
I can't remember. Is that that one that we'd just
go just have a drink and then everything will be OK?
Understanding which part of her is forming her thoughts at that
time and why and understanding that and then go and it's OK.
(20:53):
I understand why I'm feeling like this, but I've got it.
Yeah, and I think that, and that's where I say it, PTSD and
I guess mental health across theboard, it affects everyone so
differently. Yeah, you can't pigeon hole any
sort of mental health issue. I guess that's why it's so hard
to understand. Like it's, it's, you know, I
mean, it's literally post traumatic stress disorder.
(21:15):
That kind of says what it is. There's some mental health thing
based off some trauma, but it could be anxiety, it could be
depression, it could be maybe one of them.
It manifests in so many different ways.
Yes, I've got mates of mine thatthat talk about having
nightmares, you know, where they're waking up reliving and
and and all sort of stuff. Once my head hits a pillow,
(21:37):
that's it. I'm going to all the alarm,
right, But I have dames, so I have those, you know, the the,
the faces, all the incidents, all the time.
And it still happens to me. It's it's not all the time, but
it's there often. Wow.
But that's to me, that's just made me who I am.
I was driving along with my wifeand daughter in the car
yesterday and someone cut me off.
Just jumped straight in front ofme.
(21:58):
And it's funny because it brought to mind something that
Billy Mack said when we were talking and that's that his PTSD
was sort of coming out in rage, like just real anger.
And. And why am I telling you that
you know all of this, you know, Billy, But what we sort of got
to is that. Oh, yeah, right.
He. We all get that there.
Someone pulls out in front of you.
(22:18):
Yeah, you idiot. He's seen what that can cause.
Absolutely. He's seeing someone pulling out
in front, someone not being ableto hit the brakes quick enough.
And then he's had to turn up to the scene and see what that.
So when he sees someone doing stuff in traffic like that, he
said he'd be coming up the M1 and he'd just be furious with
things people are doing. That's not an irrational
(22:40):
reaction, really. No, it's not.
It's it's based on. What you've seen?
What he's seen his. Trauma.
Look, I see, you know, particularly young kids have put
this, their feet on the front dashboard of a car.
You know, I've been to instanceswhere there's been an accident
and knees and hips have been destroyed.
So I say that you sort of think,yeah, put it down.
(23:01):
But yeah, you, you say somethingnow and they yell at you or
whatever. So it's just OK, whatever.
Is there that education do like ambos go into schools and.
Look, I, I think it's like a lotof things if, if we're showing
that when we're at school, we go, yeah, whatever and ignore
it. I don't know.
I would have. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I was an idiot. I yeah, absolutely.
(23:24):
But you can't do that now. You can't go in and and
graphically shock students and. And that's the thing like it's,
you know, where do you draw thatline?
But you look at things like, youknow, say the anti smoking ads,
you know, the pictures of the, the Oh yeah, the deadline
renders. Yeah, yeah.
But they, they're horrendous forpeople that don't smoke because
you think, oh, that's terrible. But the people that smoke,
they're not going to take a whole lot of notice of it.
(23:44):
Wow. So I sort of wondered whether
the same as things like speedingand yeah, the ads on TV for
speeding, I wonder whether that just more affects the people
that don't speed and they get traumatised by seeing a possible
accident rather than the people that do speed reducing their
speed on on the road. So yeah, wow, I think it's a
balance safe. King copper might have Chan have
been big supporters of the pod Dan podcast right from the start
(24:07):
and you get all the stuff from them that you'd expect to you
get plants, you'd get all the Weber stuff you get all the
steel gear, the amazing principle kitchens, but it's the
stuff that you don't expect likethat a customer come in with
46,000 colour sample swatches just begin colour for her
kitchen cupboards. I adrenaled her down to 4
colours for her and that took him out an hour and a half.
(24:27):
She got very emotional because she was so inundated with
colours. Towards the end she was kind of
pick up the colours again. I said no stop.
I've seen photos, seeing videos,her husbands come in and give me
a big hug saying thank you so much because for getting very
emotional about it and she's super happy.
That's what she get and the mighty helpful King Cumber Minor
Chen Have you been to Guandalin Bowling Club?
They're right there on the shores of Lake Macquarie.
(24:50):
They do delicious meals upstairsin the Four Shore Bistro and
Cafe which is run by the Dish Catering group.
So you know it's good stuff and you can dine out on the balcony
looking out over the lake. It is beautiful.
(25:27):
Was there a moment early on where you realized what you were
in for? I guess not so much.
I I was very young, yeah, 19 or 20 when I first joined the
ambulance service. So you're bulletproof at that
age. Nothing like a rush.
Oh, 100% yeah. The, the, the biggest downside
for me though, when I first joined, I started down at
Narrabeen ambulance station. I used to love watching that
(25:47):
show on TV Emergency where the, the siren would go off in the
station. It was, you know, lights and
flashes and all sort of thing. I remember the first I was at
now being the phone rang. It was just an innocuous phone
on the on the window sill. My training officer picked it up
and he's. Yeah, Yep, Yep.
You had a good weekend. Yep, just chatting on the phone.
Yeah. Puts it down.
He said, oh, we got a job. What do you mean we got a job
(26:08):
like a emergency job? He's like.
Where's the sirens and the whistles and the and the
flashing lights? Yeah, it was like, oh God, but
but just being at AI guess, as Isay to people, one of the
biggest rushes I've always had, and I still get it even when
we're teaching, is being able togive people make enabling us to
make a difference for someone. Even if it's, you know, someone
(26:29):
passing, just being with the family or being with that
patient as they pass away, to me, that just makes a
difference. And probably being the most
profound thing in my career of being able to be with someone in
those last moments. Oh, geez.
To me, it's a privilege. Have you had any spooky moments
with people in their last moments?
Yeah, yeah. I guess in some ways just some
(26:51):
of the things that people do, particularly when they, you
know, with during and just afterCPR and things like that just
happening. Goosebumps right now because I'm
realising that are there, almostdon't even want to ask it.
Are there people? I mean, there's people that
their last words are to you. Oh, often.
Yeah, do they? Do they take that moment to tell
(27:13):
you something? No, I like, I've never had
those. It's last minute confessions and
things like that. No, I mean like, you know, tell
my family, tell any of that. It's not no, no, OK.
It's more just for me, it's justthat look, I remember I had a
young guy in a motor vehicle accident down at it's pinball
down there somewhere other. I literally just held his hand
as he was part. We knew that, you know, things
(27:35):
weren't going to go at all well with him.
It wasn't, yeah, we couldn't do anything too much for him.
But just, I think just knowing, seeing him, knowing that he knew
that he wasn't alone, I think our biggest fear is dying alone.
Everyone talks about I just don't want to die alone, right?
I think just being with someone in that situation, to me, as I
say it's, it's probably the biggest, most profound privilege
that I've ever had in in in my career.
(27:56):
But when you say the look is that when the look where they re
they know? Oh yeah, I think it's just that
level of peace, maybe discontent, peacefulness, maybe
it's just, it's hard to describe.
Yeah, I'm not built for that. I couldn't do that.
Look, I I don't know how anyone can.
(28:17):
Yeah, I I hear that a lot in first aid courses.
You know, a husband and wife have done you had a an emergency
with one of their kids and they say, oh, I thank God my husband
was home because I couldn't, I wouldn't have been able to do
anything. And I say, yeah, but if your
husband wasn't home, you would have stepped.
Out. Oh, you would have done.
It and I, I, I had that exact sort of situation as an
(28:38):
intensive care paramedic. I went to a pediatric
pediatrical baby cardiac arrest out at Battle Bay and I was
working with a more junior officer walk in and this baby
was about the same age as my daughter.
And all I could say was my daughter lying there and I
thought, I can't do this shit. Like I was just, I think if I've
been with another paramedic or intensive care paramedic, maybe
(29:01):
I would have just walked out andthat would have been the end of
my career then because it was just everything hit home.
But I thought I looked up at theperson I was working with.
She wasn't obviously much lower trained, so she couldn't do
much. Imagine what the family was
like. They were a mess.
And I thought, well, I have to step up and this was all
happening in seconds. Yeah, I have to step up and do
something and very, very quicklybang straight in.
You do what you need to do and you get the job done.
(29:24):
And I, I pass that on to people.So look, if you in the situation
where you can step back and let someone else do it, you probably
will and it will be all fine. But if there's not someone there
to step back and allow allow them to do it, you will step
forward. That's true.
I think like, so say there was an accident around here, I
believe I would be one that would run to it and I would want
(29:46):
to help and I would be straight into that.
But I'm talking about doing it as a job where you're putting
yourself in that position all the time.
There's, you know, nurses, I think all the things that they
do. Talk about another thankless
job. I I've just been researching for
an interview I'm going to do with an author and soon.
And there's this poem in there about nurses.
(30:08):
And it's actually, I think it's quite a famous one who was
someone said something to a nurse that was like, Oh, I
didn't realize you're just a nurse and oh, just a nurse.
And then she wrote this thing basically of today.
I, you know, I held a baby as itwas passing away, but I'm just a
(30:30):
nurse today. I and I went through all of
these things and you just like, Oh my God, I couldn't do it.
I'm not, I'm not that person. I sent my sister a text straight
away. Well, this is new to me.
(30:51):
I've, I've been medicated for anxiety for the last seven years
and I've just come off them. Yeah.
And I've got emotions again, notready for it.
Emotions are good. I haven't cried for seven years,
probably haven't seen my sister a text in seven years.
(31:14):
In fact, she hasn't replied, so she's probably doesn't realize
it's me. I I just said to her.
I said, just so you know, when Itell people my sister's a nurse,
I'm proud. Yeah.
But I think of those other occupations, carers that work
(31:36):
with the elderly and things likethat, kind of cleaning up of the
body and all those kind of things that Nope, I don't want
to do that. If it was my Nana, I'd do it.
Yeah, look, I think every job it's got, it got it's downsides
and upsides. Yeah, people say, particularly
with my history of PTSD and all it's saying if you had the time
over, would you do it again? Absolutely I would.
(31:59):
You know, it's probably one of the best jobs in the world.
You know the impact that you've had.
Because I know the impact that I've had, I tell people all the
time, if you can go through lifeand just make a difference to
one person's life, to me, that'sworthwhile.
And for me, obviously, you know,many thousands of people, even
just going to someone that's, you know, something like they've
got a bit of chest pain, you sitdown with them, you have a bit
(32:20):
of a chat to them and stuff likethat, they get something out of
it. I've made a difference for that
person. Yeah.
Things like if their partners passed away, just sitting down
with them. And I've on many occasions, shed
a bit of a tear with them and things like that.
Because it's, you know, that that empathy that we, we, we
have that to me shows to them that they know that someone else
cared about their loved one as well.
It it it you had that very everlasting effect on someone
(32:45):
and provide that support to themand and make a difference for
them. I mean, there are people that
would not be here if you hadn't turned up, if you hadn't been
there, or an ambo. Someone who?
And that's the thing, it's not me, it's it's what my training
and, and what I've been taught and, and also things.
So there's nothing special aboutme.
And that's what I say to people.You know, the skills that you
(33:06):
learn, say in a first aid coursecan make a difference.
I started absolutely. I started Vital First Aid a
long, long time ago. We were just doing CPR courses
for family groups and stuff likethat in their house for nothing.
I wasn't charging them or anything like that.
You know, we had one of the local papers used to do some
advertising, but that was all all paid off in one instant.
We got called to a kid down at your minor or edelong somewhere
(33:30):
like that to a child not breathing query cardiac arrest
on the way. We got told CPR is in progress,
which is, yeah, it's awful, the CPR is in progress, but at least
someone was doing something. Yeah.
Just before we got there, the coordination centre said, look,
the patient's now breathing and he said he could hear the kid
crying in the background, which is amazing.
We're going to a job and the kids crying, it's like, this is
(33:52):
great. I got there, got out of the
passenger side of the ambulance and mum was there holding this
toddler and she saw a man, started screaming and came
running over and gave me a big hug and all sort of thing.
Yeah, I know I'm pretty good, but I didn't.
Realise I was that good. I haven't done getting it.
I get the same response, so you know what it's like.
But she said, oh, you saved my child's life.
(34:14):
And I said, darling, I haven't done anything.
I mean, he just arrived. She said, no, I did ACPR course
with you about five years beforehand.
It was like, wow, like I. So she was the one who she.
Was one of the ones. She was one of the ones that'd
be called for now. I don't remember her.
Yeah. And it's like so many jobs that
we do you, you forget them. But oh, she remembers you.
But she remembered me. But more of the point, she
(34:34):
remembered that basic training that we gave.
And to me, that's that paid off.You know, all those courses I
did for nothing, all the stress and all to the stuff, all paid
off in 1. And I have multiple.
You know, just recently we're down at a restaurant, down at
Mascot, and the lady behind us started choking.
No one did anything. Yeah, immediately.
I got up fairly quickly, but everyone's sort of in that
(34:56):
initial oh, froze, froze and this person's choking.
I didn't do anything spectacular.
There wasn't any special powers I had or anything like that.
Just managed the choking. And before long she's sitting
back up talking. We're having a bit of a laugh
and and all sort of thing could have gone very much to the the
opposite direction if no one haddone anything.
(35:16):
Wow. So basic skills, just easy
stuff. I'm gonna get to vital first aid
in just a second. And, and what you're doing with
that, Can you think of a time where you didn't think someone
was going to make it, but then they they did and it surprised
you? Yeah, yeah, it's without going
into too much detail, there's been some pretty dramatic type
(35:40):
of job site that where you get to someone you think now it's
almost a toss of the coin, do I start resuscitation or do I not
particularly with Pediatrics andyou know, I always.
Why would you not? Yeah, if you know that, say a
child has been in cardiac risk for a very long time.
Oh, being found, you know, aftera, a long period of time, you
(36:03):
should have. But yeah, I, I very much had the
attitude that you, you always give it a go.
But yeah, I've had a few that you sort of, we haven't got back
that you would have thought thatwe would have.
But then other ones that you getback and you think, wow, that's
yeah, I had one down at Bayview,young toddler that we sort of
thought, oh, this, yeah, it's not going to be, not going to be
(36:25):
successful. And by the time we got this kid
to Montevale Hospital, a kid wassitting up in bed crying out for
mum. Yeah, so that's what I say to
people is if you always start, you're always if.
You hadn't got there. That child wouldn't be no,
however old they are now. Or will they be in their mid 20s
now? Wow.
(36:45):
Yeah, we hadn't got there in that time.
In a reasonable time, the outcome would have been very
different, but that's just nature of life.
Wow. And what was the thing that just
happened last night? You presented a defib.
Yeah, at Central Coast Stadium, we look after the the first aid
medical sort of things at the stadium have for a long, long
time now. Back in February, a lady
(37:07):
collapsed there in the stadium. We needed to cardiac arrest.
Bystanders started CPR almost immediately, which was amazing.
What's does that like a a a footy game or something?
Yeah, it was anrl game. Some people might have been
there that, you know, the game was delayed by about an hour,
hour and a half or something. But yeah, bystanders started
CPR, Vital medical team got there and continued use the
(37:29):
defib. The ambulance arrived.
By the time she got to Gosford Hospital, she was pretty much
talking to them and has made a afull recovery.
But the the defib that we used has a a forward heart program
where a survivor of a cardiac arrest where that defib gets
used, gets a defibrillated to donate to whoever she wants or
(37:51):
they want that defib to go to. And Daniel wanted to go to the
stadium here at Gosford, which just adds another defibrillator
to I Was. Gonna say because there would be
ones there. They've got two there already.
I don't think you ever have too many Defib.
In a stadium, yeah, certainly. Where there's.
Yeah, yeah. Well, hang on.
So who pays for that? Where's that come from?
So that's wait, how does it work?
So someone is so the revived. We're using a defib machine.
(38:16):
So the it's heart sign defib defibrillator, if that
defibrillator is used on a patient and the patient
survives, heart sign will donatea defibrillator to whoever that
patient wants 1 to go to. Amazing.
It's. Great, isn't it?
For free. For no cost, obviously.
Yeah, we get some pictures and stuff like that.
If the patient's happy with that.
And Danielle was more than happyto promote the fact that you got
(38:39):
an ACPR, you got the defib around and all sort of things.
So she was amazing that way. What a cool thing that no one
knows about. Yeah, Oh, there's how many
defibrillators on the market, But as far as I know, heart sign
are the only ones that do that particular program.
And that's why I, I tend to sellheart signs in preference
because of that program. They're all very much the same.
It's like a buying a a car, you know, Ford are going to tell you
(39:00):
that the their cars are better than Toyota and ought sort of
thing, but they all drive you towork.
Defibrillators all do the same sort of thing.
Yeah, they've got their little idiosyncrasies that might be a
little bit different, but I think things like their forward
heart program and we've done a few of them.
Now. To me that's it's just gold.
That is amazing. They're kind of plug and play
now. These default machines now,
(39:22):
aren't they? You put them on and you just
read the things on the screen and do the things it tells you
to do. You press the button when it
tells you to, and yeah, no, they're so.
Good. Compared.
Vital first aid and how long hasit been around?
We've been just over 30 years now.
Wow. Yeah.
And so you do first aid trainingcourses.
Yeah, we got first aid training for public, so we've got
(39:44):
multiple training venues down inSydney but also here at Gosford
and also up at Cardiff. So we we do very regular first
aid training. We also have obviously a
corporate market as well. So we have clients like say, for
instance, Qantas. Yeah.
So you go into businesses duringtheir work day and teach them.
Yeah, that sort of thing. Do you take the dummy in?
Yeah. What's his name?
This. Adrian Oh, you mean the the
(40:04):
actual mannequins? Yeah, well, Billy Mac is
probably your main, main dummy. Go get the dummy.
Yeah, Billy. No, you don't even need to say
dummy. And Billy puts his hand up.
Yep, takes his. Shirt off lies down on the
floor. Oh no, don't do that.
Don't do that now I've got PTSD.We all have.
(40:25):
Oh, well, OK. Oh, that's fantastic that that
you're doing that now. And mental health wise, how are
we sitting at the moment? Good.
Yeah. Good.
Yeah. No, it was last year wasn't a
real good year because of, you know, the the two incidences, my
daughter and then my grandson when she finally, because when
she had a bad accident, she was 32 weeks pregnant.
(40:45):
So things were pretty uncomfortable there for a little
while. She actually had a six police
car escort from her house at Terrigal to Gosford Hospital,
which is unheard of. What?
Yeah, Yeah. It's a quiet morning for the
quiet morning quiet there. But then, yeah, she was
transferred down to North Shore.But full recovery, just
miraculous. And then went on to have my
(41:06):
grandson Carter, who had a an eventful trip into the world.
He he effectively drowned duringbirth.
So he was sort of a bit touch and go, but he's, he's the most
gorgeous little little kid now. But yeah, so last year was sort
of a bit tied that way. But it wasn't about me.
It was just about the whole our whole family getting through
that, that trauma. That stuff's tough to get
(41:28):
through when you have 0 mental health issues at all.
Oh, when you when you've got stuff and you know where and
where you can go to with it, Yeah.
And I think, look, you know, the, the, our family's pretty
close. You know, we, we talk and and
alter things. So particularly for for Emily
and a hubby, Jake. I don't know how they they do
(41:50):
it, but I think when you've got kids, you know, you have to you
just, you have no choice. You just keep keep moving
forward and they catch you through it.
But yeah, you know, I'm, I'm good.
What's the basics of things thatpeople need to know in first
aid? It's CPR.
I always push that near the old DRSABCD.
Oh, OK, hang on. Let me see.
Oh, it's been a long time. Because I think when I did it
(42:10):
was just ABC always be closing. No, that's the same.
The next one Airways breathing no.
The the the first one is D. For danger, Oh danger.
Is there any danger? Are we safe going into this
area? Are they?
I, I actually used my, my, my daughter's incident last year,
my son rang me. I was up at Toukley walking out
(42:31):
of a a very short course and he he rang me and told me what had
happened and he said the ambulance was on its way and or
something. I jumped in my little Subaru and
I didn't realise you could actually jump those speed humps
along the main road of Oh yeah, at speed.
But very quickly I thought, no, this is just stupid.
I'm not gonna get here if I'm not gonna get there and I need
needed to get to see my girl. I end up pulling over and I
(42:54):
thought, Nah. And I thought back to that
DRSABCD, you know, D for danger.I gotta gotta slow down there
and get there. And also we've got to make sure
that everyone else gets to wherethey're going as well.
And I don't want to hurt anyone else after response, if they see
if they're conscious or unconscious.
Unconscious is easy. Whack them on their side, gives
them that airway, making sure that they can breathe.
Any fluid drains out. And what sort of thing they put
(43:16):
the S in there for send for helpthen.
Yeah, the the airway. Check to see if they're
breathing. They're not breathing.
Start CPR. Yeah.
And then get AD for your bottom.Yeah.
To me, that DRSRBCD is just golden.
And the longer I've been in the industry, it's the more I
realised that it's it's, it is gold.
It gives you that planted. It's probably no great need for
(43:37):
it. If you're looking after someone
with a bit of a cut on the leg or something like that, you're
not going to weigh about it too much.
But those major instances, thosesituations where you find
yourself a bit overwhelmed, you know, for whatever reason, it's
a major incident or you're beingaffected emotionally over it or
whatever. But any sort of major, major
situation where you're becoming overwhelmed, bouncing back to
(43:58):
that DRSABCD just gives you that.
It's a good. Plan it's good to have yeah, a
plan, a checklist, yeah, go through these things and.
Step by step and. You're doing them in the right
order if you're doing them in that, you know.
Even when we go in, in the analysts, you go to, yeah, multi
car accident or something like that, even just as you're
approaching the scene, you're checking for danger.
So we're still doing that even in that type of situation.
(44:18):
Yeah, second nature to you at that point, but that is exactly
what you're doing. Yeah, Vital First aid, so people
can find you just by searching it up online.
Yeah, vital first aid. Just Google.
Well, I love that you've carriedon doing what you're doing and,
and clearly making a difference to people's lives, essentially
saving lives and having other people saving lives and the
(44:41):
impact that's just a flow on thing that's coming from your
courses. So highly recommended.
I've done many of these kind of courses in the past and you come
away from, I'm hoping you never need to use any of it, but I've
been in situations where I have had to and you can go with so
much more confidence. 100. Percent in those things because.
(45:03):
As I say to people, first aid is, is 99% confidence.
Yeah. The the, I think we've all got,
yeah, we know what needs to to be done.
If someone's leaking, plug the hole.
It's that basic. And you could do a really,
really short course that's just,it could be like a 5 minute one.
That's just if they're bleeding,plug the hole.
Yeah, pretty much. There's one that's the that's
(45:27):
the bottom line of the of of thecourses.
Just break it down like that. If someone's leaking, plug the
hole. Got it.
Let's go on to Step 2. Alright.
Hey, thanks so much for jumping in.
Really. Thank you for having a chat to
you as I look at my questions here.
Yeah, we covered them all off. So excellent.
I'm glad I'm not gonna go away from this.
Look at that. And I forgot to ask him.
(45:48):
Thanks. He's for jumping in.
Thank you. Thanks for the time.
little retro caravan from 1967 that I've tore around all over
the place. Fan podcast with Rabbit.
My guest for today is Adrian Day.
Welcome in. Thanks, buddy.
Thanks for coming down. Tell people what you used to do
and what you're doing now. Yeah, I used to be intensive
care paramedic in NSW, Hamblards.
That was nearly 20 years that I was in the job with that.
(00:31):
And during that time I also started vital first aid.
So training first aid courses and CPR courses, et cetera.
I have always wanted to get AI think I called them ambulance
officers in my brain. Yep, that's not a real term, is
it? Look, we used to call ourselves
ambos, yes, but now everyone's called a paramedic, so.
I've always wanted to have one here in the van, so thank you.
(00:54):
You are taking that off the list.
I've also, I've just recently recorded with a Fiery.
I've always wanted a firefighterin here, but I know that there's
no, no way I'm gonna get them inbecause it needs to be cleared
with higher up. Yeah.
And they'll go. Not at all.
No. Just worried about what's gonna
come out or whatever. The one I spoke to, the Fiery,
he's out now with the PTSD so hecan.
Billy Mack. Yeah.
(01:14):
You know Billy Mack. He's one of my trainers.
Is he? Yes.
Amazing. Did you know he'd been in here?
I think he mentioned about it, yes.
Yeah, like it's like the highlight of his year or
something. Like, absolutely phrase it.
That's all he talks about, yeah.I can imagine poor Billy, his
episode keeps getting pushed back all the time.
Other things keep coming up. But what a great chat.
(01:36):
And he will be in again. And then also police.
I want a police officer in, but again, can't be someone
currently serving. Yeah, but I, I truly, I believe
emergency service workers are just heroes.
Absolute heroes. Yeah, Look, it, it's certainly
one of those jobs that we don't get a whole lot of credit for.
(01:59):
And I think probably even more so nowadays.
They cops so much grief from people on the road.
People are going to. Jobs that they go to.
Yep. Look, when I was in the job I
can remember I did very early inmy career, went to a a a brawl
between the Compitos and Bandidos down in the cross.
And I was very, very junior. My training officer drove us
(02:20):
into the scene, which was the wrong thing to do.
But anyway, we're in. There, hang on in an ambulance.
In an ambulance? Yep.
There's a big brawl broken out between a couple of biker gangs.
Let's just drive the ambulance and that's.
When driving, Yep, as we're driving in, we get notification.
The police have told us to standdown, not to go in and we're
just driving straight in. But anyway, we got in there and
(02:41):
I actually started looking aftera guy that had a stab wound and
I was about to take his leather jacket.
Off. Oh no, you don't do that.
I was 19, I had no idea. Try and take this leather jacket
off. Oh no, I got picked up, got a
little wet patch between my legsbecause I just wet basically wet
myself. And you know what was going on.
I didn't actually, but felt likeit.
And one of the other bikies cameover and said no, no, no, put
(03:01):
him down, put him, put me back down.
And he said, look, don't they take the colours off?
It's the wrong thing to do and all sort of thing.
Looked at me. He said you're OK.
The guy that picked me up, I thought I was going to be
killed, Pat me on the back. He said, mate, are you OK?
I'm really sorry, didn't mean todo that.
Didn't realize who you were. Put me down.
And they then proceeded to smasheach other up again.
But back then, we're really we're a protected.
(03:23):
Just two guys that you're talking about.
They were opponents, wow. But while they were sort of
making sure I was okay, their best of mates, basically they
they, their focus would make sure the ambo was okay.
You good? Okay, well, you stand aside,
we're back into it. Has the attitude to ambos
changed over the years? Look, in my career, I saw it.
It changed. I, I don't know, I, I, the
(03:46):
entitled generation we all talk about.
I, I, I really don't know. But I remember I did a job to
stand here in Gosford and we turned up and as soon as we
turned up we got attacked by thepatient and the, the girlfriend
of the, the patient because we weren't getting out of the
ambulance quick enough. And I thought, or you start
approaching the ambulance reallyquickly, aggressively, I'm going
to wind the windows up and lock the door, what?
(04:07):
Just that type of thing. And that doesn't happen all the
time by any means. But certainly the IT seems to be
getting worse. And I'm in still in contact with
a lot of current ambulance officers and it's like the same
sort of thing. I sent you a few questions over
e-mail and you're Yep, go ahead with those.
And now I'm going to have so many more so.
That's fine. What's happening now is in my
(04:29):
brain I'm thinking of all these things I've always wanted to
ask. Here's a random one.
Why does so many ambos have tattoos and so many tattoos is.
There an. Answer on that.
I don't know, I got my sleeve start there and finishes up
there. That that is, you'd be the least
tattooed up and I've ever seen. I've never actually noticed
(04:51):
that. I have, I, I don't know, maybe
that's just me, maybe I'm completely wrong, but I, I seem
to always notice lots of tattoos, lots of sleeves and
stuff and I'm like, what's goingon there?
Well. For me, there's many in that.
Yeah. And that sort of there is with
pretty much every tattoo, I think.
Yeah, yeah. But then something I haven't
haven't noticed. Is that one anything to do with
(05:11):
the job? Yeah, it is.
That's a semi colon. So rather than a full stop
suicide to to go with a a pause,rather than to commit suicide to
just take a breath, try to reevaluate everything.
Is that to you? To me, yeah, I, I went through a
pretty, pretty dark spot 1516 years ago where suicide was,
(05:35):
Look, it, it, it wasn't on the agenda, but it could have been
for me. I went through a bitty dark
spot. But I've also lost a few mates
in the ambient service for suicide.
So that's something that, you know, that pause to me is a
pretty important thing and also reminds me where to take my
pulse. Oh wow, also kind of figure you
should probably know that by nowand not need a.
(05:58):
He need a guide, right? Here.
That's exactly right. It's.
Like on the planes, when you're on a plane and you look out the
window at the wing, it's been written on the wing.
It's got like no step here, Don't do not step here or
something on the I'm like, if you are on the wing, surely you
know where you're meant to step and not.
I think you're working on an aeroplane, You should know.
(06:19):
I know when I'm up in the roof of my house, I know it's step on
the trusses. Don't step on the bed in between
you'll fall through. Someone working on an aeroplane,
they should know. It always concerned me that
exactly if I sorry nambo with ontheir own wrist and then go take
pulse here. Like.
Come on, you should full. Full of confidence, yeah.
(06:41):
That's right, the mental health side of things.
Where I got to talking to Billy Mack, the ex Fiery was I was
waiting for a guest down Gosfordwaterfront and the fire engine
pulled up. Bunch of blokes got out.
I just started chatting to them.I told them I've always wanted
to get one of them in there, butI said to them right up front, I
know you're not gonna be able to.
I'm not. This is not me asking because
(07:01):
you're not gonna be able to. I just know you'd have amazing
stories and I'd love to know what it's like the life of a
firefighter. And it was through that that
they went, we've got a guy. Coming back, yeah, we've got a.
Guy and they gave me his number then, but talking to them off
the record, I was asking about the the mental health side of
(07:23):
things. And when that's like, I got a
feeling from them that it's actually, there's actually a lot
of support in the firefighter side more so than like police.
Yeah. Look, I think all the services
have changed significantly. When I first was in the job,
there wasn't the support. It was really a case of all you
got to put up with it, get on with it or get out.
(07:46):
Yeah, that was the attitude of alot of senior officers in the
service. I can remember I did a job here
at Kincumber where we had to askfor support and it took quite a
while to get that. And the support that we're given
was pretty poor. You as ambos were ambos asking
for support. Yep, you'd be messed up by
something you'd seen. Yeah, pretty unpleasant job.
(08:07):
And yeah, we asked for for support and that took a couple
of weeks to actually occur. And there's a whole lot of
issues that occurred around that.
But I caught up with a couple ofpolice officers that went to it
as well, and they'd actually been taken off the road for a
good period of time to make surethat they were OK.
Did you feel that? Was that a car?
Oh, this car is right. I just felt something down and I
(08:28):
went. Did I lock the car it's attached
to mess up the drive off mobile fan?
Oh, that's funny. No, we couldn't do it.
Have we got seatbelts? Maybe you couldn't do a roving.
Oh my God, You just. Blood by the Federal Coast Road.
You'd be falling in potholes allthe time.
I need to look into that. I'll go to alright, I'll find my
(08:50):
police contacts and find out. I wonder if that's a thing?
Tindy on the windows just so, but they can't see in here,
they're sitting. On the windows, yeah, you can't
see it 'cause in like when you driving around with motorhome,
I'm pretty sure you can have like the kids in the in the back
of it or whatever with a seat belt on.
Yeah, well, might. I might have, I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, well, we definitely didn't do that then.
If it's not a think you can do back in the day, though.
(09:13):
Back in the day you just roll around in the back of the Holden
station wagon with the CNG, the.Kids would be in the back
playing on the floor. Totally, Yeah, I would roll
around in the back of the Kingswood, like literally I'm
lying in the back there 'cause it wasn't enough room for us in
in the bench seat thing. And I'm rolling around them.
It's just smell. And Daddy's like the CNG tanks
(09:34):
got a little bit of a little bitof a leak just getting gassed in
the back of this car. Makes the trip go faster.
That it's fine. I turned out all right.
Yeah, OK, I guess. So things will be changing.
They'll definitely be changing as far as attitudes towards
mental health and giving support.
A. 100% I can't obviously speak for the fire or, or, or police,
(09:58):
but I know the ambulance serviceis certainly improving things.
The the new boss has got his biggest priority is making sure
that the troops are, are kept healthy.
Because we do see some pretty awful crap.
People often used to say to me or still say to me, oh, you must
see some terrible things. That's not so much what we see.
You know, that, that to me and everyone is obviously different,
(10:18):
but to me, that's just part of the job.
But it's what we feel, that empathy that we have for
patients, patients, family, things like that.
That's for me anyway. That's what really affected me
in the job, that that what we feel as opposed to what we see.
But that comes from what you see, doesn't it?
Yeah, but it's more the the actual emotions around the
(10:39):
scene. Right, I get it.
So it's not necessarily so there's been a car accident or
something. It's not necessarily the
injuries that person's got or whatever.
And that it's the when mum comesalong in tears and falling
apart, yeah. I think most, nearly all ambos
will be able to distinguish between the, the clinical side
of things. You know, I've been in
situations, particularly when mykids were very young, where, you
(11:02):
know, you go to a pediatric or baby cardiac arrest and it was
the initial role of those horrible emotions, sort of
thinking it could be your child.And also thing I think for for
most of us, very, very quickly that gets put to the side.
I've got something clinical I'vegot to do here and you get on
with the job and you do it. But it's afterwards where you
start thinking, you know, the brain does terrible things to
us. You start thinking all the worst
(11:22):
things like I move. I, I did an arrest here at
Battle Bay with a pediatric and the job itself went very well
and got the patient to, to Gossip hospital.
We're living at Nara at the timeand it's probably about 2:00 in
the morning. I had to go home.
I had to go home to make sure that my little girl who was much
the same age, about 3 months of age, make sure that she was OK.
(11:44):
I wasn't popular because she wasasleep and of course I'd turn up
and wake everyone up. But it was just that type of
thing that you do. It hits home, I think,
particularly when you've had kids as well, prior to having
kids. It was just another job, so
it's. Amazing what having kids does to
you. Oh, what a big silk you can
become. It's yeah, it's good, but it's
(12:05):
it comes with its downsides to. Do you follow up afterwards and
find out how people are or wouldyou?
I used to like to to a point, but with some situations you
sort of just want to close it off and without sending off or
it's, you know, 99% of the jobs are just a job.
You do the job and you go off. You set sometimes follow up just
(12:26):
to find out whether your hunch for what might have been wrong
with the patient is correct. So you might sort of chat to the
A&E staff or intensive care unitat Gosford or something like
that. But occasionally you might sort
of follow it up by actually going and visiting them in
hospital, but not very often. You said before about the
suicide rates back when what, 10-15 years ago 0202020 Wow OK.
(12:52):
I interviewed a couple of vets recently, vet nurses and a vet
and a vet nurse, and they actually said that that is the
highest rate as far as an occupation goes.
You know, I've got a friend of mine that's a vet.
She's been a vet for a very longtime.
And I get it like it's, you know, we had a situation where
our dog was poisoned quite a fewyears ago.
(13:14):
And when you get to the vet and they say, OK, well, today's
going to cost you $1200. And that's just the start of
things. It could be a lot more and.
We don't even know if the dog's going to make it.
Exactly. And you go, certainly, yeah,
we're in the fortunate position that we could just afford that.
We had pet insurance as well andall that sort of stuff.
But to have to make that decision, and I get it, some
people have to make a decision, well, we can't afford it and put
(13:36):
their their. Or they do and then the dog
doesn't make it and then they get accused of not doing enough.
Yeah, you could have. Done more I.
Guess it's that, but I think it's just the vet looking at the
the the family going you know, they they know how much they
love that animal and not being having to put the dog down or
the cat down. Yeah, that that you.
(13:57):
Can't just leave that at work. You can't.
You can't just go well, finish work.
Yep, exactly. Off home, go watch some TV and
start. With you're gonna go with you.
Are they saying that it's getting better?
I know the Fieries definitely said that.
They said it's getting better. You're saying with the ambos
it's getting better. You know, it's like with school
teachers at the moment, there's a real shortage of school
teachers because there's so manyteachers saying how horrible it
(14:18):
is and how much it's changed. And what happens then as word
gets down to people that are going to, I want to be a teacher
and then a couple of teachers tell them, Oh God, don't.
It's the worst. Like you, you know, because of
the way it's changed and it's all red tape and there's so much
ticking boxes and everything. And, and so then let's get into
it. And that's what's happening with
there's a real shortage of vets and, and vet nurses.
(14:40):
Their kids want to get into it and, and the vets go, don't.
I would not want you in this profession so if you can look
after them and give them supportmentally to help them.
I think the recognition of mental health is, is becoming
much better nowadays. People understand it.
I still think we've got a long, long way to go now.
(15:01):
You, you, you talk to people, they sort of say, oh, well,
what, what did you used to do? And say, look, there's an ambo.
Why did you leave? Like why aren't you doing the
job? I left because PTSD and you can
sort of see the head drop down and they, they want to change
the conversation. It's still that conversation
people don't like to have. I'm lucky I've got a fantastic
support network around me, both ambos, people like Billy Mack
(15:23):
family, certainly amazingly supportive for me.
And I'm, I'm, I'm good. But there's plenty of people out
there that find it difficult to talk to other people.
But it's also talking about whatwe we see and what we're feeling
because we don't want to pass that on that trauma to other
people as well. And that's the biggest thing.
You know, I've been to a few counsellors and one of the the
(15:45):
things that adds to my stress isthinking that I'm going to be
adding to their stress and the stuff that we see, people
shouldn't see, people, stuff that we do, people shouldn't be
doing. Well I I actually had no idea
about your PTSD until you said that just then.
I'm lucky, you know, because I've worked my way through it.
I still get breakthroughs every now and then.
(16:06):
My daughter had a pretty, prettynasty accident last year and
that really brought everything back.
And you sort of feel guilty thenbecause it's it's not about me.
It's about what she went through.
But it still effects people. And I think that for me,
certainly, you know, I was lucky, I got bit of support and
treatment and, and also they work the way through it.
But PTSD, it's always there. It doesn't go away.
(16:27):
I don't fully understand it. And I'm Billy Mac.
That's what he's coming back forfor another episode.
We we talked around it a little bit.
We talked a lot. And at the end of it, I was
like, oh, I actually want to know more about that.
And he's like, I'm keen to jump in for another chat.
So I'm going to get into that and unpack it a bit more so that
people do can understand it more.
And so for when that moment comes where someone says to you
(16:50):
that, you know, I've got PTSD, that you don't go, oh, I don't
know what, I don't know what to say and change the topic or
whatever, that you can sort of know how to how to respond to
that when someone says it. I think it's like all mental
health. There's no, you know, there's no
sort of specific box that PTSD fits into.
Everyone suffers differently. And I, yeah, Billy and I have
got a really good relationship that way where we, we, you know,
(17:13):
we've hugged and cried over situations together because we,
you know, similar sort of background.
But I think there's just so manydifferent ways that PTSD effects
people. For me, one particular incident,
I had a, an amnesiac period of the job where it was almost like
a, a film cut and splice. I had so much emotion out of
(17:34):
that job, but I couldn't work out why I was affected by the
job because it didn't seem that it was from what I could
remember, it was clinical. It wasn't.
I had a bit of hypnotherapy thatit it pulled that memory back
out and I realized, oh, okay, this.
Was so you didn't have the memories of the things.
No. It you just had the.
It was like, like a cut and splice of film where, as I say,
(17:58):
I had so much emotional, you know, people I'd start to talk
about and I'd just break down. But I'm thinking.
But what I did was, you know, 123.
That wasn't that bad. It was just a normal job.
Yeah, yeah. The the the outcome of it wasn't
what we wanted, but that's just the nature of our job.
Yeah, but I didn't realize it was actually a lot more in there
as well. That was all stuffed in a box,
(18:19):
wasn't it? It was it just you?
Your brain protects yourself. Yeah, that's what my brain was
doing. I'm going to be doing an episode
with Heather Irvine Randall fromthe Reed Clinic.
Yep, a psychologist, 'cause you know, you know everybody.
Every name I bring up, she's been on a bunch of episodes.
And she actually emailed me justthe other day and said, hey, do
you want to do an episode on howyour childhood trauma affects
your adulthood trauma? Oh yeah, yeah.
(18:43):
Because I know Julie Goodwin, she's been good mate, been in
here a million times. When she talked about the her
book that she brought out, that was a big part of the therapy
with Heather. And it's like, I only know like
10 people and they all know eachother.
But yeah, when she started getting Julie to go into things
from her childhood that Julie just didn't even, I didn't even
(19:04):
know stuff and stuff in the box for so long.
You do, you do stuff in the box and you know, it's that brain
protecting yourself but just notprocessing it.
And for me, I know that. Yeah, some of that emotion was
really, it was like it was today's incident, but it was way
back then. So just just processing it to to
make it a historical thing as opposed to something that's
(19:26):
current. Is that something that happened
in, like, therapy and that, yeah, you actually have to
remember and relive those moments and then does that help?
It, it does for the, the treatment that I've had
recently. Well, last year, certainly it,
it did because it made me realize, you know, those
emotions that I was having that trauma.
Yeah, it, it's not present, it'shistorical.
(19:47):
So you got to push it back rightto that.
And I guess also for me, it was understanding it, recognizing
it, but also understanding that it, it, it's genuine.
It's just part of me. So that what you're talking
about there is very similar to the thing that with Heather and
Julie and the thing that they worked on.
And they're both fine for me to talk about all this because it's
in the book. And Heather has said, yes, talk
(20:08):
about the stuff as much as you can because she said I can deal
with people. One-on-one, one by one in
meetings, you can reach thousands of people through
talking about this stuff. So yeah, the thing with Julie is
Julie thinks she's driving the bus, but there's constantly all
these other Julies in the other seats that are wanting to take
the wheel. And you've got teenage Julie
(20:29):
that's trying to be the perfectionist and absolutely get
everything right and the reasonswhy she's like that.
And then there's the, what did she say?
49 brought the wine? 39 brought the wine.
I can't remember. Is that that one that we'd just
go just have a drink and then everything will be OK?
Understanding which part of her is forming her thoughts at that
time and why and understanding that and then go and it's OK.
(20:53):
I understand why I'm feeling like this, but I've got it.
Yeah, and I think that, and that's where I say it, PTSD and
I guess mental health across theboard, it affects everyone so
differently. Yeah, you can't pigeon hole any
sort of mental health issue. I guess that's why it's so hard
to understand. Like it's, it's, you know, I
mean, it's literally post traumatic stress disorder.
(21:15):
That kind of says what it is. There's some mental health thing
based off some trauma, but it could be anxiety, it could be
depression, it could be maybe one of them.
It manifests in so many different ways.
Yes, I've got mates of mine thatthat talk about having
nightmares, you know, where they're waking up reliving and
and and all sort of stuff. Once my head hits a pillow,
(21:37):
that's it. I'm going to all the alarm,
right, But I have dames, so I have those, you know, the the,
the faces, all the incidents, all the time.
And it still happens to me. It's it's not all the time, but
it's there often. Wow.
But that's to me, that's just made me who I am.
I was driving along with my wifeand daughter in the car
yesterday and someone cut me off.
Just jumped straight in front ofme.
(21:58):
And it's funny because it brought to mind something that
Billy Mack said when we were talking and that's that his PTSD
was sort of coming out in rage, like just real anger.
And. And why am I telling you that
you know all of this, you know, Billy, But what we sort of got
to is that. Oh, yeah, right.
He. We all get that there.
Someone pulls out in front of you.
(22:18):
Yeah, you idiot. He's seen what that can cause.
Absolutely. He's seeing someone pulling out
in front, someone not being ableto hit the brakes quick enough.
And then he's had to turn up to the scene and see what that.
So when he sees someone doing stuff in traffic like that, he
said he'd be coming up the M1 and he'd just be furious with
things people are doing. That's not an irrational
(22:40):
reaction, really. No, it's not.
It's it's based on. What you've seen?
What he's seen his. Trauma.
Look, I see, you know, particularly young kids have put
this, their feet on the front dashboard of a car.
You know, I've been to instanceswhere there's been an accident
and knees and hips have been destroyed.
So I say that you sort of think,yeah, put it down.
(23:01):
But yeah, you, you say somethingnow and they yell at you or
whatever. So it's just OK, whatever.
Is there that education do like ambos go into schools and.
Look, I, I think it's like a lotof things if, if we're showing
that when we're at school, we go, yeah, whatever and ignore
it. I don't know.
I would have. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I was an idiot. I yeah, absolutely.
(23:24):
But you can't do that now. You can't go in and and
graphically shock students and. And that's the thing like it's,
you know, where do you draw thatline?
But you look at things like, youknow, say the anti smoking ads,
you know, the pictures of the, the Oh yeah, the deadline
renders. Yeah, yeah.
But they, they're horrendous forpeople that don't smoke because
you think, oh, that's terrible. But the people that smoke,
they're not going to take a whole lot of notice of it.
(23:44):
Wow. So I sort of wondered whether
the same as things like speedingand yeah, the ads on TV for
speeding, I wonder whether that just more affects the people
that don't speed and they get traumatised by seeing a possible
accident rather than the people that do speed reducing their
speed on on the road. So yeah, wow, I think it's a
balance safe. King copper might have Chan have
been big supporters of the pod Dan podcast right from the start
(24:07):
and you get all the stuff from them that you'd expect to you
get plants, you'd get all the Weber stuff you get all the
steel gear, the amazing principle kitchens, but it's the
stuff that you don't expect likethat a customer come in with
46,000 colour sample swatches just begin colour for her
kitchen cupboards. I adrenaled her down to 4
colours for her and that took him out an hour and a half.
(24:27):
She got very emotional because she was so inundated with
colours. Towards the end she was kind of
pick up the colours again. I said no stop.
I've seen photos, seeing videos,her husbands come in and give me
a big hug saying thank you so much because for getting very
emotional about it and she's super happy.
That's what she get and the mighty helpful King Cumber Minor
Chen Have you been to Guandalin Bowling Club?
They're right there on the shores of Lake Macquarie.
(24:50):
They do delicious meals upstairsin the Four Shore Bistro and
Cafe which is run by the Dish Catering group.
So you know it's good stuff and you can dine out on the balcony
looking out over the lake. It is beautiful.
(25:27):
Was there a moment early on where you realized what you were
in for? I guess not so much.
I I was very young, yeah, 19 or 20 when I first joined the
ambulance service. So you're bulletproof at that
age. Nothing like a rush.
Oh, 100% yeah. The, the, the biggest downside
for me though, when I first joined, I started down at
Narrabeen ambulance station. I used to love watching that
(25:47):
show on TV Emergency where the, the siren would go off in the
station. It was, you know, lights and
flashes and all sort of thing. I remember the first I was at
now being the phone rang. It was just an innocuous phone
on the on the window sill. My training officer picked it up
and he's. Yeah, Yep, Yep.
You had a good weekend. Yep, just chatting on the phone.
Yeah. Puts it down.
He said, oh, we got a job. What do you mean we got a job
(26:08):
like a emergency job? He's like.
Where's the sirens and the whistles and the and the
flashing lights? Yeah, it was like, oh God, but
but just being at AI guess, as Isay to people, one of the
biggest rushes I've always had, and I still get it even when
we're teaching, is being able togive people make enabling us to
make a difference for someone. Even if it's, you know, someone
(26:29):
passing, just being with the family or being with that
patient as they pass away, to me, that just makes a
difference. And probably being the most
profound thing in my career of being able to be with someone in
those last moments. Oh, geez.
To me, it's a privilege. Have you had any spooky moments
with people in their last moments?
Yeah, yeah. I guess in some ways just some
(26:51):
of the things that people do, particularly when they, you
know, with during and just afterCPR and things like that just
happening. Goosebumps right now because I'm
realising that are there, almostdon't even want to ask it.
Are there people? I mean, there's people that
their last words are to you. Oh, often.
Yeah, do they? Do they take that moment to tell
(27:13):
you something? No, I like, I've never had
those. It's last minute confessions and
things like that. No, I mean like, you know, tell
my family, tell any of that. It's not no, no, OK.
It's more just for me, it's justthat look, I remember I had a
young guy in a motor vehicle accident down at it's pinball
down there somewhere other. I literally just held his hand
as he was part. We knew that, you know, things
(27:35):
weren't going to go at all well with him.
It wasn't, yeah, we couldn't do anything too much for him.
But just, I think just knowing, seeing him, knowing that he knew
that he wasn't alone, I think our biggest fear is dying alone.
Everyone talks about I just don't want to die alone, right?
I think just being with someone in that situation, to me, as I
say it's, it's probably the biggest, most profound privilege
that I've ever had in in in my career.
(27:56):
But when you say the look is that when the look where they re
they know? Oh yeah, I think it's just that
level of peace, maybe discontent, peacefulness, maybe
it's just, it's hard to describe.
Yeah, I'm not built for that. I couldn't do that.
Look, I I don't know how anyone can.
(28:17):
Yeah, I I hear that a lot in first aid courses.
You know, a husband and wife have done you had a an emergency
with one of their kids and they say, oh, I thank God my husband
was home because I couldn't, I wouldn't have been able to do
anything. And I say, yeah, but if your
husband wasn't home, you would have stepped.
Out. Oh, you would have done.
It and I, I, I had that exact sort of situation as an
(28:38):
intensive care paramedic. I went to a pediatric
pediatrical baby cardiac arrest out at Battle Bay and I was
working with a more junior officer walk in and this baby
was about the same age as my daughter.
And all I could say was my daughter lying there and I
thought, I can't do this shit. Like I was just, I think if I've
been with another paramedic or intensive care paramedic, maybe
(29:01):
I would have just walked out andthat would have been the end of
my career then because it was just everything hit home.
But I thought I looked up at theperson I was working with.
She wasn't obviously much lower trained, so she couldn't do
much. Imagine what the family was
like. They were a mess.
And I thought, well, I have to step up and this was all
happening in seconds. Yeah, I have to step up and do
something and very, very quicklybang straight in.
You do what you need to do and you get the job done.
(29:24):
And I, I pass that on to people.So look, if you in the situation
where you can step back and let someone else do it, you probably
will and it will be all fine. But if there's not someone there
to step back and allow allow them to do it, you will step
forward. That's true.
I think like, so say there was an accident around here, I
believe I would be one that would run to it and I would want
(29:46):
to help and I would be straight into that.
But I'm talking about doing it as a job where you're putting
yourself in that position all the time.
There's, you know, nurses, I think all the things that they
do. Talk about another thankless
job. I I've just been researching for
an interview I'm going to do with an author and soon.
And there's this poem in there about nurses.
(30:08):
And it's actually, I think it's quite a famous one who was
someone said something to a nurse that was like, Oh, I
didn't realize you're just a nurse and oh, just a nurse.
And then she wrote this thing basically of today.
I, you know, I held a baby as itwas passing away, but I'm just a
(30:30):
nurse today. I and I went through all of
these things and you just like, Oh my God, I couldn't do it.
I'm not, I'm not that person. I sent my sister a text straight
away. Well, this is new to me.
(30:51):
I've, I've been medicated for anxiety for the last seven years
and I've just come off them. Yeah.
And I've got emotions again, notready for it.
Emotions are good. I haven't cried for seven years,
probably haven't seen my sister a text in seven years.
(31:14):
In fact, she hasn't replied, so she's probably doesn't realize
it's me. I I just said to her.
I said, just so you know, when Itell people my sister's a nurse,
I'm proud. Yeah.
But I think of those other occupations, carers that work
(31:36):
with the elderly and things likethat, kind of cleaning up of the
body and all those kind of things that Nope, I don't want
to do that. If it was my Nana, I'd do it.
Yeah, look, I think every job it's got, it got it's downsides
and upsides. Yeah, people say, particularly
with my history of PTSD and all it's saying if you had the time
over, would you do it again? Absolutely I would.
(31:59):
You know, it's probably one of the best jobs in the world.
You know the impact that you've had.
Because I know the impact that I've had, I tell people all the
time, if you can go through lifeand just make a difference to
one person's life, to me, that'sworthwhile.
And for me, obviously, you know,many thousands of people, even
just going to someone that's, you know, something like they've
got a bit of chest pain, you sitdown with them, you have a bit
(32:20):
of a chat to them and stuff likethat, they get something out of
it. I've made a difference for that
person. Yeah.
Things like if their partners passed away, just sitting down
with them. And I've on many occasions, shed
a bit of a tear with them and things like that.
Because it's, you know, that that empathy that we, we, we
have that to me shows to them that they know that someone else
cared about their loved one as well.
It it it you had that very everlasting effect on someone
(32:45):
and provide that support to themand and make a difference for
them. I mean, there are people that
would not be here if you hadn't turned up, if you hadn't been
there, or an ambo. Someone who?
And that's the thing, it's not me, it's it's what my training
and, and what I've been taught and, and also things.
So there's nothing special aboutme.
And that's what I say to people.You know, the skills that you
(33:06):
learn, say in a first aid coursecan make a difference.
I started absolutely. I started Vital First Aid a
long, long time ago. We were just doing CPR courses
for family groups and stuff likethat in their house for nothing.
I wasn't charging them or anything like that.
You know, we had one of the local papers used to do some
advertising, but that was all all paid off in one instant.
We got called to a kid down at your minor or edelong somewhere
(33:30):
like that to a child not breathing query cardiac arrest
on the way. We got told CPR is in progress,
which is, yeah, it's awful, the CPR is in progress, but at least
someone was doing something. Yeah.
Just before we got there, the coordination centre said, look,
the patient's now breathing and he said he could hear the kid
crying in the background, which is amazing.
We're going to a job and the kids crying, it's like, this is
(33:52):
great. I got there, got out of the
passenger side of the ambulance and mum was there holding this
toddler and she saw a man, started screaming and came
running over and gave me a big hug and all sort of thing.
Yeah, I know I'm pretty good, but I didn't.
Realise I was that good. I haven't done getting it.
I get the same response, so you know what it's like.
But she said, oh, you saved my child's life.
(34:14):
And I said, darling, I haven't done anything.
I mean, he just arrived. She said, no, I did ACPR course
with you about five years beforehand.
It was like, wow, like I. So she was the one who she.
Was one of the ones. She was one of the ones that'd
be called for now. I don't remember her.
Yeah. And it's like so many jobs that
we do you, you forget them. But oh, she remembers you.
But she remembered me. But more of the point, she
(34:34):
remembered that basic training that we gave.
And to me, that's that paid off.You know, all those courses I
did for nothing, all the stress and all to the stuff, all paid
off in 1. And I have multiple.
You know, just recently we're down at a restaurant, down at
Mascot, and the lady behind us started choking.
No one did anything. Yeah, immediately.
I got up fairly quickly, but everyone's sort of in that
(34:56):
initial oh, froze, froze and this person's choking.
I didn't do anything spectacular.
There wasn't any special powers I had or anything like that.
Just managed the choking. And before long she's sitting
back up talking. We're having a bit of a laugh
and and all sort of thing could have gone very much to the the
opposite direction if no one haddone anything.
(35:16):
Wow. So basic skills, just easy
stuff. I'm gonna get to vital first aid
in just a second. And, and what you're doing with
that, Can you think of a time where you didn't think someone
was going to make it, but then they they did and it surprised
you? Yeah, yeah, it's without going
into too much detail, there's been some pretty dramatic type
(35:40):
of job site that where you get to someone you think now it's
almost a toss of the coin, do I start resuscitation or do I not
particularly with Pediatrics andyou know, I always.
Why would you not? Yeah, if you know that, say a
child has been in cardiac risk for a very long time.
Oh, being found, you know, aftera, a long period of time, you
(36:03):
should have. But yeah, I, I very much had the
attitude that you, you always give it a go.
But yeah, I've had a few that you sort of, we haven't got back
that you would have thought thatwe would have.
But then other ones that you getback and you think, wow, that's
yeah, I had one down at Bayview,young toddler that we sort of
thought, oh, this, yeah, it's not going to be, not going to be
(36:25):
successful. And by the time we got this kid
to Montevale Hospital, a kid wassitting up in bed crying out for
mum. Yeah, so that's what I say to
people is if you always start, you're always if.
You hadn't got there. That child wouldn't be no,
however old they are now. Or will they be in their mid 20s
now? Wow.
(36:45):
Yeah, we hadn't got there in that time.
In a reasonable time, the outcome would have been very
different, but that's just nature of life.
Wow. And what was the thing that just
happened last night? You presented a defib.
Yeah, at Central Coast Stadium, we look after the the first aid
medical sort of things at the stadium have for a long, long
time now. Back in February, a lady
(37:07):
collapsed there in the stadium. We needed to cardiac arrest.
Bystanders started CPR almost immediately, which was amazing.
What's does that like a a a footy game or something?
Yeah, it was anrl game. Some people might have been
there that, you know, the game was delayed by about an hour,
hour and a half or something. But yeah, bystanders started
CPR, Vital medical team got there and continued use the
(37:29):
defib. The ambulance arrived.
By the time she got to Gosford Hospital, she was pretty much
talking to them and has made a afull recovery.
But the the defib that we used has a a forward heart program
where a survivor of a cardiac arrest where that defib gets
used, gets a defibrillated to donate to whoever she wants or
(37:51):
they want that defib to go to. And Daniel wanted to go to the
stadium here at Gosford, which just adds another defibrillator
to I Was. Gonna say because there would be
ones there. They've got two there already.
I don't think you ever have too many Defib.
In a stadium, yeah, certainly. Where there's.
Yeah, yeah. Well, hang on.
So who pays for that? Where's that come from?
So that's wait, how does it work?
So someone is so the revived. We're using a defib machine.
(38:16):
So the it's heart sign defib defibrillator, if that
defibrillator is used on a patient and the patient
survives, heart sign will donatea defibrillator to whoever that
patient wants 1 to go to. Amazing.
It's. Great, isn't it?
For free. For no cost, obviously.
Yeah, we get some pictures and stuff like that.
If the patient's happy with that.
And Danielle was more than happyto promote the fact that you got
(38:39):
an ACPR, you got the defib around and all sort of things.
So she was amazing that way. What a cool thing that no one
knows about. Yeah, Oh, there's how many
defibrillators on the market, But as far as I know, heart sign
are the only ones that do that particular program.
And that's why I, I tend to sellheart signs in preference
because of that program. They're all very much the same.
It's like a buying a a car, you know, Ford are going to tell you
(39:00):
that the their cars are better than Toyota and ought sort of
thing, but they all drive you towork.
Defibrillators all do the same sort of thing.
Yeah, they've got their little idiosyncrasies that might be a
little bit different, but I think things like their forward
heart program and we've done a few of them.
Now. To me that's it's just gold.
That is amazing. They're kind of plug and play
now. These default machines now,
(39:22):
aren't they? You put them on and you just
read the things on the screen and do the things it tells you
to do. You press the button when it
tells you to, and yeah, no, they're so.
Good. Compared.
Vital first aid and how long hasit been around?
We've been just over 30 years now.
Wow. Yeah.
And so you do first aid trainingcourses.
Yeah, we got first aid training for public, so we've got
(39:44):
multiple training venues down inSydney but also here at Gosford
and also up at Cardiff. So we we do very regular first
aid training. We also have obviously a
corporate market as well. So we have clients like say, for
instance, Qantas. Yeah.
So you go into businesses duringtheir work day and teach them.
Yeah, that sort of thing. Do you take the dummy in?
Yeah. What's his name?
This. Adrian Oh, you mean the the
(40:04):
actual mannequins? Yeah, well, Billy Mac is
probably your main, main dummy. Go get the dummy.
Yeah, Billy. No, you don't even need to say
dummy. And Billy puts his hand up.
Yep, takes his. Shirt off lies down on the
floor. Oh no, don't do that.
Don't do that now I've got PTSD.We all have.
(40:25):
Oh, well, OK. Oh, that's fantastic that that
you're doing that now. And mental health wise, how are
we sitting at the moment? Good.
Yeah. Good.
Yeah. No, it was last year wasn't a
real good year because of, you know, the the two incidences, my
daughter and then my grandson when she finally, because when
she had a bad accident, she was 32 weeks pregnant.
(40:45):
So things were pretty uncomfortable there for a little
while. She actually had a six police
car escort from her house at Terrigal to Gosford Hospital,
which is unheard of. What?
Yeah, Yeah. It's a quiet morning for the
quiet morning quiet there. But then, yeah, she was
transferred down to North Shore.But full recovery, just
miraculous. And then went on to have my
(41:06):
grandson Carter, who had a an eventful trip into the world.
He he effectively drowned duringbirth.
So he was sort of a bit touch and go, but he's, he's the most
gorgeous little little kid now. But yeah, so last year was sort
of a bit tied that way. But it wasn't about me.
It was just about the whole our whole family getting through
that, that trauma. That stuff's tough to get
(41:28):
through when you have 0 mental health issues at all.
Oh, when you when you've got stuff and you know where and
where you can go to with it, Yeah.
And I think, look, you know, the, the, our family's pretty
close. You know, we, we talk and and
alter things. So particularly for for Emily
and a hubby, Jake. I don't know how they they do
(41:50):
it, but I think when you've got kids, you know, you have to you
just, you have no choice. You just keep keep moving
forward and they catch you through it.
But yeah, you know, I'm, I'm good.
What's the basics of things thatpeople need to know in first
aid? It's CPR.
I always push that near the old DRSABCD.
Oh, OK, hang on. Let me see.
Oh, it's been a long time. Because I think when I did it
(42:10):
was just ABC always be closing. No, that's the same.
The next one Airways breathing no.
The the the first one is D. For danger, Oh danger.
Is there any danger? Are we safe going into this
area? Are they?
I, I actually used my, my, my daughter's incident last year,
my son rang me. I was up at Toukley walking out
(42:31):
of a a very short course and he he rang me and told me what had
happened and he said the ambulance was on its way and or
something. I jumped in my little Subaru and
I didn't realise you could actually jump those speed humps
along the main road of Oh yeah, at speed.
But very quickly I thought, no, this is just stupid.
I'm not gonna get here if I'm not gonna get there and I need
needed to get to see my girl. I end up pulling over and I
(42:54):
thought, Nah. And I thought back to that
DRSABCD, you know, D for danger.I gotta gotta slow down there
and get there. And also we've got to make sure
that everyone else gets to wherethey're going as well.
And I don't want to hurt anyone else after response, if they see
if they're conscious or unconscious.
Unconscious is easy. Whack them on their side, gives
them that airway, making sure that they can breathe.
Any fluid drains out. And what sort of thing they put
(43:16):
the S in there for send for helpthen.
Yeah, the the airway. Check to see if they're
breathing. They're not breathing.
Start CPR. Yeah.
And then get AD for your bottom.Yeah.
To me, that DRSRBCD is just golden.
And the longer I've been in the industry, it's the more I
realised that it's it's, it is gold.
It gives you that planted. It's probably no great need for
(43:37):
it. If you're looking after someone
with a bit of a cut on the leg or something like that, you're
not going to weigh about it too much.
But those major instances, thosesituations where you find
yourself a bit overwhelmed, you know, for whatever reason, it's
a major incident or you're beingaffected emotionally over it or
whatever. But any sort of major, major
situation where you're becoming overwhelmed, bouncing back to
(43:58):
that DRSABCD just gives you that.
It's a good. Plan it's good to have yeah, a
plan, a checklist, yeah, go through these things and.
Step by step and. You're doing them in the right
order if you're doing them in that, you know.
Even when we go in, in the analysts, you go to, yeah, multi
car accident or something like that, even just as you're
approaching the scene, you're checking for danger.
So we're still doing that even in that type of situation.
(44:18):
Yeah, second nature to you at that point, but that is exactly
what you're doing. Yeah, Vital First aid, so people
can find you just by searching it up online.
Yeah, vital first aid. Just Google.
Well, I love that you've carriedon doing what you're doing and,
and clearly making a difference to people's lives, essentially
saving lives and having other people saving lives and the
(44:41):
impact that's just a flow on thing that's coming from your
courses. So highly recommended.
I've done many of these kind of courses in the past and you come
away from, I'm hoping you never need to use any of it, but I've
been in situations where I have had to and you can go with so
much more confidence. 100. Percent in those things because.
(45:03):
As I say to people, first aid is, is 99% confidence.
Yeah. The the, I think we've all got,
yeah, we know what needs to to be done.
If someone's leaking, plug the hole.
It's that basic. And you could do a really,
really short course that's just,it could be like a 5 minute one.
That's just if they're bleeding,plug the hole.
Yeah, pretty much. There's one that's the that's
(45:27):
the bottom line of the of of thecourses.
Just break it down like that. If someone's leaking, plug the
hole. Got it.
Let's go on to Step 2. Alright.
Hey, thanks so much for jumping in.
Really. Thank you for having a chat to
you as I look at my questions here.
Yeah, we covered them all off. So excellent.
I'm glad I'm not gonna go away from this.
Look at that. And I forgot to ask him.
(45:48):
Thanks. He's for jumping in.
Thank you. Thanks for the time.
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