December 22, 2020 • 37 mins
Episode 8
We interview Edward Goodchild on:
- staying endlessly curious,
- keeping kindness at the heart of your actions,
- how to determine your own narrative,
- start with an idea, and
- willingly embrace failure.
At his heart, Ed is an enthusiastic innovator and perennial entrepreneur. On top of building the Zendht Venture Studio, he is an independent adviser, board chair, forum moderator and charity trustee.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:10):
Welcome to the eighth episode of
PortfolioCast. Today we'respeaking with Edward Goodchild,
at his heart, Ed is anenthusiastic innovator, and a
perennial entrepreneur. On topof building the Zendht venture
studio, he's an independentadvisor, board chair, forum
moderator, and charity trustee.
Welcome, Edward.
Ed Goodchild (00:31):
Thank you very much indeed for having me.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:33):
No problem.
So let's get started. Your lovefor innovation is a clear driver
in the work that you do withZendt.. Where was that passion
first formulated?
Ed Goodchild (00:45):
Well, it's interesting, you should ask
because I think if you'd askedeither my parents, or my school
masters, or indeed, my friends,when I was in my 20s, you would
have never marked me down fordoing any of this. I have to
give away an age now, I'm now inmy mid 50s. It started when
really, it was probably a bit ofa midlife crisis in my mid 40s.
(01:05):
And I've been an advisor for along time. And the bit that I
found really interesting aboutthe advice was, here are the
life stories of the people thatI was advising private clients,
they were all entrepreneurs,they'd all typically started
with zero and have made asignificant amount of capital.
And I started thinking, well, ifthey can do it, I've got these
sort of connections andadvantages, well, then surely I
(01:27):
can do it. So that's what I did.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:30):
Fantastic.
I mean, it's interesting thatyou say, going back towards
school, you definitely wouldn'thave been seen to do these sorts
of things. But you've definitelygot a clear appetite for
learning. You mentioned that youhave been advisor, you're a
chartered wealth manager, you'vegot your CISI fellowship. And
most recently, you've just thisyear gained your Chartered
Institute of Marketingfellowship. So congratulations
on that. How has all of thesedifferent educational avenues
(01:53):
helped you build your portfoliocareer as it stands today?
Ed Goodchild (01:59):
The reason it worked, or the reason I pursued
these different channels, isit's only relatively recently -
in fact having a portfolioactually finally gives it some
sort of overall coherence.
Because before I've done a wholeseries of different jobs in lots
of different arenas, andtherefore I've sought to be
qualified in whatever I've beendoing. And it's now that I knit
it all together, I call it myventure studio, because I've got
(02:19):
a number of differentbusinesses, but you could
equally describe it as aportfolio of different
interests. And it's being ableto be open minded to picking out
new knowledge about lots ofdifferent things. And I make a
comment, lots of times aboutreach and range and scope and
opportunity. But really, it'sabout looking up and out. And
education, just part of it, Isuppose I'm endlessly curious.
(02:42):
and I just sort of kind offollow things or get interested
in things or just developpassions about things.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (02:51):
I think that's one of the biggest traits
of portfolio professionals is,is curiosity. And it's
interesting that there can belots of fear in the different
types of work that you're goingto be taking on, all the
challenges, etc. But actually,there's not that fear of finding
something out for the first timeor trying something for the
first time and seeing whathappens. That curiosity
(03:14):
definitely drives us, doesn'tit?
Ed Goodchild (03:16):
It does. I mean a lot to promote yourself, or to
get somebody to pay you to dosomething, you need to have
sufficient information, you needto have sufficient experience,
which is why probably coming atit a bit later in life rather
than kind of straight out of uniprobably makes it easier. But
people come to ask your advicebecause they don't know the
answer. So you clearly need toknow more than they do. Because
(03:39):
otherwise, why would they listento you or pay you, but it
doesn't mean you need to knowabsolutely everything about
everything. And I think it's thefear of thinking there are gaps
in your knowledge that holdpeople back from doing multiple
things or taking the big bravestep. I think it was Branson who
said if your plans or your ideasdon't frighten you, then they're
(04:00):
not big enough. I have a littlebit of nervous anticipation. I
think one of thecharacteristics, and I know that
myself, you have to be somebodywho sort of permanently
fidgeting you're always afternew things or kind of wanting to
look around the corner or lookover the wall. You have to be a
slightly kind of nosy about lifein general.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (04:19):
Yeah, absolutely. It's having the
curiosity about the shiny newthings and the focus to actually
complete something with them.
Ed Goodchild (04:27):
Yeah, it's interesting because somebody
else was on a talk I waslistening to and said, Well, of
course I did is this sort of thetrope that comes out when
everybody's got ideas? It's allabout delivery. Yes, it is about
delivery, because otherwise it'snot a business. It's just a is a
book of ideas. But I actuallydon't think that everybody is
full of ideas, but like lots ofthings, I think you can learn to
(04:49):
have ideas. I don't think it'snaturally there's sort of nature
or nurture. I don't think it'sthat some people just have an
innate right to have the ideasand other people don't. I think
you can nurture and encourage itand learn the behaviours and you
hang out with the right people.
You go look for it in the rightplaces. And then guess what? If
you're open minded to it, thenyou begin to run with it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (05:12):
Yeah, absolutely. And you explain how
you work with all your multipleroles of keeping your eyes and
ears open and alert to the worldat large, heads up, not heads
down. I really love that phrase.
We often talk about balance inthese interviews. But what I'd
really love to know more aboutis how you make the connection
between all the things that youdo, and how that benefits you
(05:33):
and the people that you'reworking with, and others?
Ed Goodchild (05:38):
The starting point is I push back against this
whole idea of about work/lifebalance. The way that I look out
the window, as it were, iserrr.. I've got a life.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (05:48):
Yeah.
Ed Goodchild (05:49):
And life is more interesting is got some
complexity, or it's got somenarrative around it, or it's got
some extra interest rather thanbeing kind of monolithic, just
doing one thing.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (06:01):
Hmm.
Ed Goodchild (06:01):
I'm a bit of a sucker for joining things. And
that's probably because I, I'venever been a sportsman. So the
whole kind of go play golf, goplay rugby, go play cricket, go
play anything else, has neverbeen part of. I've got a
background of joining membershiporganisations and wanted to be
kind of an enthusiast aboutthings. And then if you if you
go off and do that, and you'reopen minded, you meet other
(06:23):
people doing other things, andthen how they relate, I suppose
the way that they glue ittogether. And it's always a bit
imperfect. There's no, this sortof mosaic, there are very few
hard lines. There are lots ofdotted lines and connections.
The starting point, and as wellas its light values route.
(06:44):
Life's pretty good if you goaround being helpful and broadly
speaking kind to people. And ifyou are broadly speaking kind,
so somebody needs a helpinghand, you help them, then you
suddenly find that actuallyother people help you. I
actually view this as a safetynet. There's a whole bunch of
comments about integrity is howsomebody behaves when nobody
(07:04):
else is looking. But actually,if you go around and try and
just be a reasonable humanbeing, it's amazing how many
other people will then treat youthat way. But then he is
actually really the glue thatsticks it together. So you read
I don't know. Let's make it as adigital example. Somebody pops
up something on LinkedIn andsays, Does anybody know somebody
somewhere? Either you do knowsomebody, or just have a scroll
(07:25):
around? I did it earlier on theweek, scrolling around for that
company... Do you know somebodywho's a second or third
connection. Ting their name in,it costs you nothing, you try to
help somebody else, you creategoodwill, guess what, he
suddenly comes back x days laterand off it... And that's what
makes the world go round.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (07:42):
I am a huge believer in paying it forward
and having that open mindednessof going into conversations not
about what can I get from this,but what can I give...
Ed Goodchild (07:51):
It is also an added part, if you're on the
business founder route, is thattends to be fairly self centric,
because it's your drive, it'syour determination, you
ultimately are the decisionmaker, it all ends up at one
desk, which is do we or don'twe. That's a quite an insular
outcome. I spend a bit of timeas a peacetime soldier, so
(08:14):
nothing dangerous, but this ideaof collegiate responsibility and
obligation/responsibility beingthe two sides of the same coin.
So if you end up with this sortof potential isolation, then I
like doing the pro bono thingsbecause it's teamwork. And as I
just said, I don't do teamsportnever been able to catch a ball
(08:35):
in my life. And therefore it's ait's a proxy for that. Because
if you sit on a on a charityboard, for example, you're one
amongst many, rather than beingthe leader who has to make the
final decision and the balanceof the two. I think it's a
pleasant way to live your lifeas a whole tonne of stuff out of
the moment, obviously aboutmental well being and where
(08:57):
where's my place in society? Andwhat do I do and all I ever do
is work. It just gives a littlebit of balance to our lives I
suppose.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:04):
It does always end up coming around that
way, doesn't it? There's manyentrepreneurial professionals
out there. We're definitelyseeing them come out of the
woodwork even more now so thatpeople are facing furlough or
redundancy etc. And who arelooking to a portfolio career as
a springboard into startingtheir own businesses. What
advice would you give tosomebody who is on this path?
Ed Goodchild (09:27):
I do have three bits of advice. The first one is
in one's own headspace. So Italked about it a few moments
ago about this sort of kind ofisolation factor. I've worked in
large organisations and one ofthe really thing that is
difficult then when you step offon your own is, you're on your
own. And you kind of think thatyou were doing - you were the
leader in it, and suddenly - No,you learn all sorts of new
(09:49):
skills like how does your routerwork? How did all your IT work?
Telephony? How do you set upemail accounts? All of this sort
of kind of hits as a wash? Sothe advice there is you want to
create, pretty quickly, a littleblack book of technical people
who can help you get stuff done.
The second one is a recognitionagain in headspace, that nobody
really cares what you've donebefore. So you need to develop
(10:12):
your own narrative, becausethat's what people will
remember. You want people to betalking about you, so you better
set your own story. Becauseotherwise, it's just a sort of
kind of random walk in the park.
I set up my first business whenI was made redundant. So I'm
sitting nicely in a house andtwo kids in school. And yeah,
now I'm just sitting looking ata box of possessions. I didn't
see it coming, by the way. Sothat changes your risk appetite,
(10:35):
because you now have the scopeof starting something out. And I
was fortunate that was aredundancy payment. So that
gives you a bit of money tostart with, that takes off the
immediate pressure, but I wasalways kind of a bit embarrassed
about that. And then you realiseafter a few years that lots of
lots and lots of people who'veset up companies quite often the
starting point is facingredundancy, and people who've
(10:59):
gone on to set up reallysuccessful big companies are
quite open about it, which ispart of the reason I'm now
talking about it.
The follow on, the next part is,I was always under the
impression you needed to have areally detailed business plan,
you needed to have everythingtopped and tailed, and
everything to the state ofperfection. Back to an old
(11:20):
military adage of the firstcasualty of war is the plan. I
think, actually, this sort ofagile working, you need to have
a sense of direction and whatyou want to try and achieve and
then break it down into thevarious steps to try and get
there. But you need it to bekind of fluid. Because pandemics
certainly prove this, life justthrows a whole tonne of
curveballs at you, even when theworld's being well behaved. And
(11:44):
actually probably thedifferentiator of, of a
successful entrepreneur, orsomebody with a portfolio career
is the ability to be able tocope with that uncertainty. One
of the things I've said a lot topeople, and it applies to me is,
you're never going to have a daywhen your jobs list, your task
lists, you're going to haveticked everything off. So if
(12:06):
your criteria for being able towalk away from your desk, have a
good night's sleep, go out forsupper, all of these things is
that I've got a completely cleardesk, you'll be chained to your
desk for perpetuity and neverget away.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:19):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (12:19):
And therefore the skill, which often isn't the
case in very largeorganisations, it's been pretty
brutal about prioritising. Thisabsolutely has to be done, right
better do that. Tax return? Yes.
I've been nice to talk and youhave to permanently sift about
what really needs to be done.
But you can only know whatreally needs to be done if you
(12:42):
have a very, very clearidentity, where you want to be.
And the struggle, and I thinkThe Portfolio Collective has
been really cool about this ishelping people work out what
their goal should be.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:54):
Yeah.
Ed Goodchild (12:54):
Because otherwise, it's just a bit of a random
walk. And it might work and itmight not but I'm a bit too much
of a control freak. Like toknow. It's a bit like Sat Nav
you don't you have a stab in thepostcode, you may get lost on
the way and you change the routeand all the other stuff. But if
you don't have this clearvision, then it's hard.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (13:11):
Yeah, knowing the B, where you're
going towards is definitely ahelpful starting place. As you
say it's a big part of what wedo. And it's a big part of how
we start our Catapult course,for example, just getting people
to really focus and often peoplehaven't taken the time to do
that. And it's might be becausethey haven't been allowed the
time to do it. How have youapproached starting new
(13:32):
businesses? You've started many,and you continue to work with
many, how do you go aboutthinking, right? Okay, is this a
good idea or a bad idea?
Ed Goodchild (13:41):
Well, I have a very simple process, because
that's the sort of way I work.
So the first one is, you justhave to have the idea. You don't
need to have solved sort of kindof nuclear fusion with this, it
is just an idea. Then I normallywrite a what I would refer to as
a scoping paper. So get somethoughts down on paper, normally
a couple of sides of A4, bash itout. Don't worry too much about
(14:02):
syntax, just bash it out, andthen move it around, then I
normally try and literallysketch it out as a picture.
Probably started because my kidsare a bit older, so they've all
done a levels and stuff, but asort of kind of Mind Map thing.
It's a doodle basically. Becauseyou're trying to work out how
will the different bits hold ontogether? Well, if I do this, I
could do that. Or there's adotted line. Oh, I know some of
(14:24):
you does that. So you'rebeginning to create a kind of an
ecosystem around it. Thentypically I go look for people
who can help me. They might beemployees, they might be
collaborators, they might befreelancers, don't really mind,
actually, I'm quite neutral. Andthat's normally done on a basic
skills matrix. I know where Iwant to go, these are the skills
(14:47):
I need. These are things Idefinitely don't know about.
It's a bit of self awarenessabout, no no no, there's no
chance I could do those, right.
I need to find somebody who'sgot some of these skills, or
then there's what I could do Ireally be much more efficient if
somebody else did it. So sort ofcomparative economics 101. I
mean, you do the top level onboards about board members and
the skills needed and put littleX's in? Well, you do the same in
(15:10):
your own in your own head. Thenyou've got to try and scoop
those people up to your to youridea. So that's your first
pitch. Because you've all thepeople you will approach go
"nah", well, then you need to goback at the office, or the back
bedroom, scratch your head andthink, Well, okay, maybe it
wasn't quite so cool, but thatthere's an iterative process.
But as long as I don't laugh youout completely, then there's
(15:32):
normally the part about tryingto find some money, I mean,
basically got two options, yourown back pocket or somebody
else's back pocket. There'salways a bit of tension about
that. And of course, the amountof money that you have then
determines the path that you cantake, and 10,000 different
models of doing that. I havegenerally gone the bootstrapping
(15:55):
model, because I've beenenthusiastic about what I want
to do. And I'd rather just geton with it. Because the really
ugly side of fundraising is yougo and talk to 100 people, and
95 of those people will tellyou, you're wrong. misplaced,
somebody else is doing it.
Because you got to find the fivethat will back you, let's say
and if you don't really, reallycan do it boot strategy. My
advice is do it because youdon't get diluted. You don't
(16:15):
have the problem of tonnes ofpeople telling your idea's
rubbish. Now there's adifference between genuine
feedback from people who want toengage with you. When you're out
being the supplicant wantingmoney, it gets really soul
destroying people's ownnarrative. So if you can avoid
just going and seeing them atall, then my advice is just
skirt around it try and work outa different way.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:39):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (16:39):
It's normally talked about that you go and
talk to friends and family. Iactually think that's the
hardest people to talk to
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:45):
You've got people who are completely
unbiased or bias in a completelydifferent way.
Ed Goodchild (16:51):
But also, they tend to be less hesitant about
giving you full feedback. Andthen of course, you got the
idea. You've scoped it out,you've got the team, and then
you need to start making ithappen.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (17:02):
Yeah, obviously, you've run
businesses, but also you haveroles within other
organisations, etc. Andparticularly being a board
member of several differentcompanies. We've talked about
the fact that that allows you tohave some give back, some play
within the roles, a slightlydifferent role to everything
landing on your plate, beingpart of a team, but what advice
would you give to people who arelooking to expand their
(17:24):
experience and getting involvedwith other companies?
Ed Goodchild (17:26):
Give it a go. It's hard, though, because generally
is much more straightforward topick up pro bono, what you find
is you end up being really,really busy, and you got no
income.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (17:37):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (17:37):
And depending on your personal circumstances,
that's either a good thing or abad thing, which is part of the
reason that trustee board, forexample, tend to be people or
retired because the money iskinda sorted. If, on the other
hand, you're still working, thenthere's a question to my time
that I like to give back in probono, philanthropy, all the rest
of it. By the way, thephilanthropy part is time and
(17:58):
effort is not to do with money,but it's trying to facilitate
and help and guide and judge.
There's a part of which is insort of a family, and pleasure
and life, then there's newbusiness and business
activities, things that I'vegenerated, and then there's
always a sort of the 10% isunallocated because you need to
have a float if you want to doother things. And I generally
rule of thumb work on thepremise. If I'm taking a new
(18:19):
thing in one of thosecategories, then normally,
you've got to give up one. Now Ithen tend to wrap that in good
governance and say, Well, if I'mgoing to take an appointment for
something, yeah, three years,maybe with the two year
extension. I've got into troubleon a couple of different ways.
Because I say, Look, I'll takeit if there's a clear way that I
can find my replacement. Oractually what I jokingly say is
(18:43):
after about four years, you needto sack me, because otherwise it
becomes a perpetuity that's notgood for them is not good for
me.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (18:51):
That's a really interesting and honest
way of looking at it. And alsoan honest conversation to have
at the start, I guess. And notmany people are used to having
those kind of honestconversations right at the
beginning, like this is what Iwant to achieve out of it. And
this is my expectations. Butthat's a really important
conversation to have.
Ed Goodchild (19:07):
I just think it's a open transparent one. So we're
talking about clear objectivesfor business, I would contend
you would have kind of broadlythe same thing for your life,
but with business is either asmall part or a large part or
whatever portion you want. Butif that general planning works
for business, well then I alsothink it applies to life as
well. One of the things that Iwould encourage anybody who's
(19:30):
stepping out from anorganisation into a portfolio
career is the real value ofmentors and coaches, my general
steer is and to pay for it,because it's really worth it. So
I spent quite a lot of timereally pre the Zendht venture
studio idea, which is reallycoalescing all the things that
(19:51):
I've evolved to try and give ita coherence and structure
because they're allinterrelated. And quite often
people tell me Oh, you're doingtoo many things. You can't
possibly And how does it work?
So, ultimately a bit like I wastalking about drawing out the
doodle? Well, I've now turned itinto a website so somebody can
see what I do. So hopefully thatdemonstrates the coherence, and
they go Ah! Okay, I understandwhat he's doing. But part of
that is having a really cleargoal. And I have a number of
(20:14):
sessions with a really greatcoach. And I have it as my
singular objective, what I referto as long term financial
equilibrium, that's differentfor everybody. It does come down
to a number but the number comesdown to Well, why is that number
because I need or want toachieve these goals in order to
do that. The machinery needs toproduce that, it gives you a
(20:37):
timeline, it's not quite a cashflow forecast, but it's got
elements of that. And therefore,if that's the direction I want
to go in well, then these arethe things I need to do to have
a pretty high probability inbeing able to hit it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (20:51):
And that's really good advice. And I think
that's certainly something thata lot of full stage portfolio
professionals need to remindthemselves of. It's kind of
having that end goal. Mostbusinesses have an exit
strategy. What is your exitstrategy of your career? And
what do you want to achieve atthe end of the day, it's a
blaise way way of putting it ora rather clinical way of putting
it maybe. But yeah, it's aninteresting thought to have an
(21:14):
apply to how you...
Ed Goodchild (21:16):
One of the pushback, again, I push back on
this idea about having an exitstrategy, I suppose because I
spend 10-12 years as a portfoliomanager. So picking stock, and
building a portfolio. It's notpredicated on an exit. It's
predicated on producingsomething that can continue to
create new businesses, but thestarting factor isn't selling
(21:36):
any of them. Now, like allentrepreneurs, if somebody comes
around the corner and offers youridiculous price for something,
you think it's worth 10, andthey offer you 1000, yeah yeah
you bite their arm off! Notwithstanding that as a as a sort
of the outlier event. The waythat I constructed it is to do
build and hold, not really tosell anything, the discipline,
(21:57):
the financial discipline is tobuild it such that it could be
sold, because that keeps all theducks lined up and everything
working properly. But one of thebits I really pushed back
against as a kind of commonprevailing culture is you have
an idea, you kind of throw lotsof money at it, it has a sudden
rise in value and you flog itoff to somebody else. No, I
really like the idea of buildinga portfolio of businesses.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:20):
You know the way that you have created
your businesses. It ispassion-led, it is your
interest, in a fluffier waythey're your babies, they're
part of what you...
Ed Goodchild (22:29):
They're not my babies, am I angry teenagers...
don't...trust me.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:37):
I did have in one of our previous podcasts
actually spoke to somebody whodescribed their children as
their startups because theyliterally are behaving like
startups and that you know,they're toddlers. that you got
to put a lot of work in, etc,etc. And the analogy went on. So
it's nice to hear your businessbeing angry teenagers.
We talk a lot about success andwhat it means. And obviously,
(22:59):
that's tied up in you know, whatwe were just talking about in
whether we hold on to ourbusinesses, whether we hold on
to our roles that we have, or wedevelop a we have cut off
periods for different things,etc. Success is obviously very
important to what we do, what itmeans how it changes as we go
through our careers. But I thinktalking about failure is just as
(23:21):
important. And there, there isall these stats in the world
about how such and such numberof startups fail and etc, etc.
You've got to get through thefirst three years or five years
or blah, what failures havehelped you along your way? And
do you see them as failuresanymore?
Ed Goodchild (23:38):
Oh the way is littered with failure. I can't
tell you the number of thingsI've been massively unsuccessful
in and all sorts of things youthought were getting a bit
brighter here and and had endedup in cul de sacs. Through
nobody's particular fault, theyjust have. So, I'm just in the
process of, well it is lauchednow, deputy finances is a
property finance platform. Sothe basic problem seeking to
(23:59):
solve, don't need to worry aboutit here is a long term
persistent problem. And this isthe fifth way that I've tried to
solve it. Now this won't work.
It will work. But actually itwill work because his
predecessors couldn't, didn't,shouldn't have worked.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (24:16):
Yeah.
Ed Goodchild (24:16):
So for example, as we begin the marketing boards,
and somebody says, Well, why isit like that? You go, Well,
because we tried the other ways,and they didn't work. And
because of the lessons welearned. So for example, this is
about bringing private capitalinto the gap between what the
bank will provide to aresidential developer and what
the developers got. And there'salways a gap. So you can try it
(24:38):
as a fund, but then nobody wantsto do blind pool investing
because they want to be able totouch it. So that didn't work. I
thought I could do somethingcalled a reverse loan note in
that you raise a bond and thenyou do one with lending but
anybody who puts money in wantsto know where it's going to go.
So that didn't work. I tried todo it as simple introducer to a
finance broker, but that didn'twork because unless they
completed the deal, I didn't getpaid. So I have no control over
(25:01):
it. But this is this iterativeprocess, the risk of doing it in
startup land, is it all tends tobe a bit public. But you can't
do it all in the laboratory. Youjust have to get out and go and
do it. Yeah, no, I think youhave to willingly embrace
failure. And also don't let itdo your head in, it is just
part of it. In fact, I wouldcontend that the measure of an
(25:25):
entrepreneur is how you dealwith failure.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:29):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (25:29):
Dealing with success is really easy. Happy
days, that's great. It's whenit's going wobbly or it's going
wrong. Can you stay calm?
Because there is normally a wayout. Secondly, can you keep your
team together? Becauseeverybody's under different
pressures, there's a unifyingfactor of success. But if that
tips into failure, can you keeppeople with you?
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:52):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (25:52):
My failure... but the joy is, if you can, well,
then you go around the blockagain. And what it does mean, in
your construct of how you putyour portfolio together is to
have some things that are reallylow risk. So if you are a global
equity portfolio manager, youhave some high risk ideas have
got really high returns, butthey potentially high. But you
(26:13):
also have some really boringthings at the bottom, that just
sort of kind of pay the bills.
And actually, in business, youneed a bit of that as well. In
particular, following theportfolio route. So actually a
couple of things where you doyour day's work, you get your
day's pay, that's fine. mortgageis covered, can eat and drink,
you're okay is probably pretty,pretty key.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:34):
Yeah. And that's why a lot of people, and
certainly my experience of itwas starting off with paid PAYE
jobs and then building sidehustles. And then taking a leap
with one or many of them,
Ed Goodchild (26:46):
It doesn't need to be this kind of black or white,
it can be a process. It's notthat hard and fast. Again, to go
back to something I mentionedbefore, this cultural shift, if
you've had a full time job,doesn't matter what level in
what industry, that's the thingyou've done. And that breeds a
certain degree of certainty. Andit's having the right attitude,
(27:06):
to be able to cope with thisfluid movement of lots of
different things happening atthe same time. I mean, one of
the things I do, I wake upearly, and I tend to go for a
walk, actually, it's lovely, noearphones, no, no digital media,
no nothing there, just go for awalk clear out. And it's lovely,
you just kind of organiseyourself for the day. And I do
that, basically seven days aweek, all through the year, I
(27:29):
would thoroughly recommend it askind of a zero cost ability just
to have clear thinking time. Andsometimes thinking time can be
about the square root ofnothing, it doesn't have to be
some great kind of life'spurpose. Sometimes walking along
completely neutral is alsolovely.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:46):
There's lots of science around having
the best ideas when you're inthe shower or when you're
walking, because that's the timewhere your brain can switch into
neutral and have some space tothink about things, to play
around with some ideas.
Ed Goodchild (27:59):
It's been said about children, you need to have
some periods of enforcedboredom. I've got another number
of pet peeves, but one of whichis whenever he says, Oh, I'm too
busy. No, that's just a failureto prioritise. So that's me
being pretty blunt, I block outbig chunks of time in my diary,
which is just nothing. And it'snot that I do nothing in the
(28:20):
nothing period, it's just, I candetermine what I do in those
periods. rather than it beingimposed upon me. I might be
working really hard, I mightjust go and have a cup of tea
and sit on the sofa, doesn'tmatter. The fact is that you're
then in control and you don'tfeel like you're on this runaway
train. There's just sort of justzooming along and everything is
running past you and you can'tfocus. Gary Keller wrote a book
(28:43):
about blocking out time so thatyou have the air pockets, you
can come up for air, you canthink, you can reflect. I was
taught years and years ago thatyou wanted to write somebody a
really stinking email or aletter, you should write it when
you're really angry! And thenprint it out and leave it 24
hours, sleep on it. And then youcan correct the grammar. No, no,
but you then change the tone orrelative and again on that, and
(29:06):
I suppose is certainlyappropriate now is my default is
pick up the phone, I find it abit frustrating because the
default of the world seems to besend an email, but it has no
nuance to it. It's so easy forpeople to get the wrong end of
the stick.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:21):
I was an oddity in my last corporate job
because I was known for turningup of people's desks. Because if
I could walk to them, why wouldI send them an email?
Ed Goodchild (29:29):
Correct! Yes. And the other one is a really,
really cool one back into thekind of mentoring, coaching, one
is walking meetings. If you wantto have a good chat with
somebody, I did a wonderfulpiece of strategy work in the
middle between the two lockdown.
We went for a walk for an hour,just fabulous.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:44):
Up until obviously lockdown and tiers. I
was still every few weeks,popping into London and meeting
up with our CMO Fiona and justhaving some face to face time.
In fact, actually our whole teamhadn't spent any time together
face to face because we createdthis company in lockdown. Never
you know. not all of that oneteam had met met.
Ed Goodchild (30:01):
If you had told me 12 months ago that I would have
hired a number of people withouthaving met them. I'd have told
you, you were a lunatic! But itworked really well!
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:12):
Yeah, yeah, there are different ways of
doing it. There are differentways of getting a feel for
somebody and creating a teamthat works together and works
really well. Even if you haven'tmet. Obviously talking about
lockdown, it's very hard toavoid the subject and us
continuing in the tier system,having faced two lockdowns so
far. And we just mentioned thefact you've hired a lot of
people remotely, but how haveyou stayed connected to your
(30:34):
network and your colleagues,because you have many different
sets of colleagues, obviously.
Has there been anything thatstood out to you as a really
useful tool or method forkeeping communication open, when
we can't be able to get that youmentioned about, you know,
picking up the phone more thanemail? Is it just that that's
helped you? Or is there morethat helped you?
Ed Goodchild (30:51):
Yeah, picking up the phone, bit like your comment
about walking around and askingsomebody at the desk, you're
very hard to read because you'resuddenly pushing yourself into
their diary and you kind ofdon't know what to do - and you
think somebody frightfully rude,they haven't phoned me back now.
They've been madly busy onsomething else. Back to my
comment about prioritisation,yeah yeah, actually what they've
done is just prioritised me outof the loop. No, that's fine,
(31:12):
that's fine. Yeah, there tendsto be the phone. I mean, I have
a networking business. So I am,I suppose at one level, I'm a
professional networker. Sothat's my Lamwyk business, we
were running forums about everythree weeks face to face, in
kind of normal times, we now runthose on video conference call,
(31:34):
it's a bit different, it'sreally hard to do a roundtable
discussion. So we tend todefault to having two or three
speakers and I chair it and pullthat together. So that's, that's
one way of connecting with thenetwork, I also pivoted that
business to turn it into adigital publishing business. So
we put out a Quarterly Journal,and I do it as a commonplace
book. It's idiosyncratic, it'sjust a whole bunch of stuff I
(31:55):
find to be interesting. And backto my comment about reach and
range and scope and opportunityetc, I use LinkedIn a lot. Back
to being the nosy and curiousone, I'm interested in what
other people do, it's actually afabulous way of connecting with
former colleagues or workingoverseas. Because I've worked
for a Ossie firm in London, I'vegot a whole bunch of Australian
(32:16):
contacts. And actually, that's apretty good medium and being
able to do that. Back to the oneabout paying forward, that gets
to be more lively andinteresting, if you comment and
help and seek to engage withother people's networks, rather
than trying to get people alwaysto come to you, kind of be a
reasonable human being ratherthan trying to screw people up.
(32:36):
And yeah, that's probably aboutit. And when we're all a bit
constrained, I mean, I think thething that's really hard is if
you don't have a developednetwork,
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (32:46):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (32:47):
So I think those who are seeking to establish
themselves, it's much harder andLinkedIn being but one example.
You can kind of when you look atsomebody whose profile, it has a
different - it's often quiteignored by those people who've
been working for somewhere for15 years, but they're argument
is Why do I need it? Well, itcan actually be a bit of an
(33:10):
insurance policy.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (33:11):
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely
Ed Goodchild (33:12):
I started with LinkedIn years and years and
years ago when it first startedbecause I moved jobs a couple of
times and you couldn't take yourcontact book with you, it was a
property of the institution. Andfor years I just used on the
kind of the Rolodex, of boxes ofphysical business card, but they
date very quickly. Although, ittakes a certain degree of sort
of strength of character tothrow them away, because they
(33:32):
might be useful. So I switchedto using LinkedIn as effectively
as an online address bookbecause in the cloud and
therefore you were fine. So myadvice for anybody who is
looking or even thinking aboutportfolio like career, have a
network. Doesn't matter who itis or how many it is, have a
network because otherwise youfall into the category of
(33:54):
Shoulda, Could have, Didn't.
Doing that today from scratch,from your own house in lockdown
is definitely hard. But then howdo you it? Well, people you went
to school with, people who livenear with you, friends and
family, people you like about. Imean there are kind of standard
levers, it's not, that bit ain'trocket science. Oh, and I'm so
old that I I'm in thedemographic that quite enjoying
(34:15):
looking at rubbish stuff onFacebook. But I think that's got
zero value in terms of my ownnetwork. I know other people use
it for business, personally isjust for silliness. But it's
keeping connected with otherpeople. It's quite neat as well.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (34:30):
Yeah, you do never know where that next
connections going to come from,or that next recommendation,
etc, because somebody will seeand connect the dots.
Ed Goodchild (34:39):
I mean, I often get the comments - how do you
know all these people? Get thissort of little weird sort of
troll under a bridge collectingbusiness cards! Well, it goes
back to the nosy and thecuriosity part is if you're
interested in other people, ifyou are minded to be welcoming,
then that's how you get to knowpeople. If you're frightfully
closed down and head down andnever look anybody in the eye
(35:01):
and you don't ever offeranything up, you're likely to
have quite a small circle ofpeople, you know. And that may
be fine. But if you want to getinto a portfolio career you want
to be out and about, some ofthose habits, you're probably
gonna have to change.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (35:12):
Yeah, absolutely. I going to end on my
own nosy and curious question,given the number of things that
you're involved with, and you'vecreated, and this might be a
hard question. But what ventureor role is your favourite?
Ed Goodchild (35:26):
Ah, don't have favourites?
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (35:28):
No? No, not at all. Not one that you really
lean towards?
Ed Goodchild (35:35):
Yeah, that's tricky. The reason it's really
tricky is I have built thisventure studio of lots of
different ideas. And they're allconnected. So it's a bit like
the human body. I mean, kind ofwhich foot do you prefer? Your
right foot, your left foot?
Well, I'm quite fond the both ofthem. So that's sort of the
that's out of the pushbackanswer. But I also need to
nurture all of them because theyare all interdependent. The
(35:58):
marketing and creative agencygroup that we've created. Well,
largely, my two businesspartners have, but agencies
within that one of them's doingthe digital transformation to
build my cyber FinTech model,one of the agencies is doing a
PR for one of the otherbusinesses. So everything's
interleaved. So as soon as youdrop out one part, you end up
with the law kind of unintendedconsequences, because it's not
(36:19):
just you've lost that bit, butit all the effect that it
ripples through. And it's thegreatest strength, I suppose it
is everything is interrelated,you're not going to get me to
pick a favourite. But havingsaid that, there's always a
special spot for your firstborn.
And the first thing you dobecause it in my case was
(36:41):
Chawker. We started life as awealth advisory business back in
2011. That was when I did stepoff the stage and go, Okay, can
I do this, on my own, in arecession be made redundant,
decent size mortgage, wife notworking, couple of kids in
school? Okay, so what do I donow? You're definitely
(37:01):
vulnerable at that point. Thatis kind of the beating heart of
the beginning of it. I mean, Istill had it. And I'm still
doing lots of other things. Butthat's really kind of the
nucleus right at the beginning,in the middle, or put it around
another way. If I hadn't donethat, I probably wouldn't do the
things that came along behindit.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (37:18):
Yeah. And beginnings are really important.
We talk a lot about endings, butbeginnings are really important.
Thank you so much for your time,Ed. It's been so interesting
talking to us today. And I can'twait to find out what next.
Ed Goodchild (37:31):
Stop. Thank you very much indeed for having me.
I love sharing and helping andbeing engaged and... Terrific.
Thank you very much indeed.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (37:37):
Brilliant.
Thanks, Ed.
Welcome to the eighth episode of
PortfolioCast. Today we'respeaking with Edward Goodchild,
at his heart, Ed is anenthusiastic innovator, and a
perennial entrepreneur. On topof building the Zendht venture
studio, he's an independentadvisor, board chair, forum
moderator, and charity trustee.
Welcome, Edward.
Ed Goodchild (00:31):
Thank you very much indeed for having me.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:33):
No problem.
So let's get started. Your lovefor innovation is a clear driver
in the work that you do withZendt.. Where was that passion
first formulated?
Ed Goodchild (00:45):
Well, it's interesting, you should ask
because I think if you'd askedeither my parents, or my school
masters, or indeed, my friends,when I was in my 20s, you would
have never marked me down fordoing any of this. I have to
give away an age now, I'm now inmy mid 50s. It started when
really, it was probably a bit ofa midlife crisis in my mid 40s.
(01:05):
And I've been an advisor for along time. And the bit that I
found really interesting aboutthe advice was, here are the
life stories of the people thatI was advising private clients,
they were all entrepreneurs,they'd all typically started
with zero and have made asignificant amount of capital.
And I started thinking, well, ifthey can do it, I've got these
sort of connections andadvantages, well, then surely I
(01:27):
can do it. So that's what I did.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:30):
Fantastic.
I mean, it's interesting thatyou say, going back towards
school, you definitely wouldn'thave been seen to do these sorts
of things. But you've definitelygot a clear appetite for
learning. You mentioned that youhave been advisor, you're a
chartered wealth manager, you'vegot your CISI fellowship. And
most recently, you've just thisyear gained your Chartered
Institute of Marketingfellowship. So congratulations
on that. How has all of thesedifferent educational avenues
(01:53):
helped you build your portfoliocareer as it stands today?
Ed Goodchild (01:59):
The reason it worked, or the reason I pursued
these different channels, isit's only relatively recently -
in fact having a portfolioactually finally gives it some
sort of overall coherence.
Because before I've done a wholeseries of different jobs in lots
of different arenas, andtherefore I've sought to be
qualified in whatever I've beendoing. And it's now that I knit
it all together, I call it myventure studio, because I've got
(02:19):
a number of differentbusinesses, but you could
equally describe it as aportfolio of different
interests. And it's being ableto be open minded to picking out
new knowledge about lots ofdifferent things. And I make a
comment, lots of times aboutreach and range and scope and
opportunity. But really, it'sabout looking up and out. And
education, just part of it, Isuppose I'm endlessly curious.
(02:42):
and I just sort of kind offollow things or get interested
in things or just developpassions about things.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (02:51):
I think that's one of the biggest traits
of portfolio professionals is,is curiosity. And it's
interesting that there can belots of fear in the different
types of work that you're goingto be taking on, all the
challenges, etc. But actually,there's not that fear of finding
something out for the first timeor trying something for the
first time and seeing whathappens. That curiosity
(03:14):
definitely drives us, doesn'tit?
Ed Goodchild (03:16):
It does. I mean a lot to promote yourself, or to
get somebody to pay you to dosomething, you need to have
sufficient information, you needto have sufficient experience,
which is why probably coming atit a bit later in life rather
than kind of straight out of uniprobably makes it easier. But
people come to ask your advicebecause they don't know the
answer. So you clearly need toknow more than they do. Because
(03:39):
otherwise, why would they listento you or pay you, but it
doesn't mean you need to knowabsolutely everything about
everything. And I think it's thefear of thinking there are gaps
in your knowledge that holdpeople back from doing multiple
things or taking the big bravestep. I think it was Branson who
said if your plans or your ideasdon't frighten you, then they're
(04:00):
not big enough. I have a littlebit of nervous anticipation. I
think one of thecharacteristics, and I know that
myself, you have to be somebodywho sort of permanently
fidgeting you're always afternew things or kind of wanting to
look around the corner or lookover the wall. You have to be a
slightly kind of nosy about lifein general.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (04:19):
Yeah, absolutely. It's having the
curiosity about the shiny newthings and the focus to actually
complete something with them.
Ed Goodchild (04:27):
Yeah, it's interesting because somebody
else was on a talk I waslistening to and said, Well, of
course I did is this sort of thetrope that comes out when
everybody's got ideas? It's allabout delivery. Yes, it is about
delivery, because otherwise it'snot a business. It's just a is a
book of ideas. But I actuallydon't think that everybody is
full of ideas, but like lots ofthings, I think you can learn to
(04:49):
have ideas. I don't think it'snaturally there's sort of nature
or nurture. I don't think it'sthat some people just have an
innate right to have the ideasand other people don't. I think
you can nurture and encourage itand learn the behaviours and you
hang out with the right people.
You go look for it in the rightplaces. And then guess what? If
you're open minded to it, thenyou begin to run with it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (05:12):
Yeah, absolutely. And you explain how
you work with all your multipleroles of keeping your eyes and
ears open and alert to the worldat large, heads up, not heads
down. I really love that phrase.
We often talk about balance inthese interviews. But what I'd
really love to know more aboutis how you make the connection
between all the things that youdo, and how that benefits you
(05:33):
and the people that you'reworking with, and others?
Ed Goodchild (05:38):
The starting point is I push back against this
whole idea of about work/lifebalance. The way that I look out
the window, as it were, iserrr.. I've got a life.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (05:48):
Yeah.
Ed Goodchild (05:49):
And life is more interesting is got some
complexity, or it's got somenarrative around it, or it's got
some extra interest rather thanbeing kind of monolithic, just
doing one thing.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (06:01):
Hmm.
Ed Goodchild (06:01):
I'm a bit of a sucker for joining things. And
that's probably because I, I'venever been a sportsman. So the
whole kind of go play golf, goplay rugby, go play cricket, go
play anything else, has neverbeen part of. I've got a
background of joining membershiporganisations and wanted to be
kind of an enthusiast aboutthings. And then if you if you
go off and do that, and you'reopen minded, you meet other
(06:23):
people doing other things, andthen how they relate, I suppose
the way that they glue ittogether. And it's always a bit
imperfect. There's no, this sortof mosaic, there are very few
hard lines. There are lots ofdotted lines and connections.
The starting point, and as wellas its light values route.
(06:44):
Life's pretty good if you goaround being helpful and broadly
speaking kind to people. And ifyou are broadly speaking kind,
so somebody needs a helpinghand, you help them, then you
suddenly find that actuallyother people help you. I
actually view this as a safetynet. There's a whole bunch of
comments about integrity is howsomebody behaves when nobody
(07:04):
else is looking. But actually,if you go around and try and
just be a reasonable humanbeing, it's amazing how many
other people will then treat youthat way. But then he is
actually really the glue thatsticks it together. So you read
I don't know. Let's make it as adigital example. Somebody pops
up something on LinkedIn andsays, Does anybody know somebody
somewhere? Either you do knowsomebody, or just have a scroll
(07:25):
around? I did it earlier on theweek, scrolling around for that
company... Do you know somebodywho's a second or third
connection. Ting their name in,it costs you nothing, you try to
help somebody else, you creategoodwill, guess what, he
suddenly comes back x days laterand off it... And that's what
makes the world go round.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (07:42):
I am a huge believer in paying it forward
and having that open mindednessof going into conversations not
about what can I get from this,but what can I give...
Ed Goodchild (07:51):
It is also an added part, if you're on the
business founder route, is thattends to be fairly self centric,
because it's your drive, it'syour determination, you
ultimately are the decisionmaker, it all ends up at one
desk, which is do we or don'twe. That's a quite an insular
outcome. I spend a bit of timeas a peacetime soldier, so
(08:14):
nothing dangerous, but this ideaof collegiate responsibility and
obligation/responsibility beingthe two sides of the same coin.
So if you end up with this sortof potential isolation, then I
like doing the pro bono thingsbecause it's teamwork. And as I
just said, I don't do teamsportnever been able to catch a ball
(08:35):
in my life. And therefore it's ait's a proxy for that. Because
if you sit on a on a charityboard, for example, you're one
amongst many, rather than beingthe leader who has to make the
final decision and the balanceof the two. I think it's a
pleasant way to live your lifeas a whole tonne of stuff out of
the moment, obviously aboutmental well being and where
(08:57):
where's my place in society? Andwhat do I do and all I ever do
is work. It just gives a littlebit of balance to our lives I
suppose.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:04):
It does always end up coming around that
way, doesn't it? There's manyentrepreneurial professionals
out there. We're definitelyseeing them come out of the
woodwork even more now so thatpeople are facing furlough or
redundancy etc. And who arelooking to a portfolio career as
a springboard into startingtheir own businesses. What
advice would you give tosomebody who is on this path?
Ed Goodchild (09:27):
I do have three bits of advice. The first one is
in one's own headspace. So Italked about it a few moments
ago about this sort of kind ofisolation factor. I've worked in
large organisations and one ofthe really thing that is
difficult then when you step offon your own is, you're on your
own. And you kind of think thatyou were doing - you were the
leader in it, and suddenly - No,you learn all sorts of new
(09:49):
skills like how does your routerwork? How did all your IT work?
Telephony? How do you set upemail accounts? All of this sort
of kind of hits as a wash? Sothe advice there is you want to
create, pretty quickly, a littleblack book of technical people
who can help you get stuff done.
The second one is a recognitionagain in headspace, that nobody
really cares what you've donebefore. So you need to develop
(10:12):
your own narrative, becausethat's what people will
remember. You want people to betalking about you, so you better
set your own story. Becauseotherwise, it's just a sort of
kind of random walk in the park.
I set up my first business whenI was made redundant. So I'm
sitting nicely in a house andtwo kids in school. And yeah,
now I'm just sitting looking ata box of possessions. I didn't
see it coming, by the way. Sothat changes your risk appetite,
(10:35):
because you now have the scopeof starting something out. And I
was fortunate that was aredundancy payment. So that
gives you a bit of money tostart with, that takes off the
immediate pressure, but I wasalways kind of a bit embarrassed
about that. And then you realiseafter a few years that lots of
lots and lots of people who'veset up companies quite often the
starting point is facingredundancy, and people who've
(10:59):
gone on to set up reallysuccessful big companies are
quite open about it, which ispart of the reason I'm now
talking about it.
The follow on, the next part is,I was always under the
impression you needed to have areally detailed business plan,
you needed to have everythingtopped and tailed, and
everything to the state ofperfection. Back to an old
(11:20):
military adage of the firstcasualty of war is the plan. I
think, actually, this sort ofagile working, you need to have
a sense of direction and whatyou want to try and achieve and
then break it down into thevarious steps to try and get
there. But you need it to bekind of fluid. Because pandemics
certainly prove this, life justthrows a whole tonne of
curveballs at you, even when theworld's being well behaved. And
(11:44):
actually probably thedifferentiator of, of a
successful entrepreneur, orsomebody with a portfolio career
is the ability to be able tocope with that uncertainty. One
of the things I've said a lot topeople, and it applies to me is,
you're never going to have a daywhen your jobs list, your task
lists, you're going to haveticked everything off. So if
(12:06):
your criteria for being able towalk away from your desk, have a
good night's sleep, go out forsupper, all of these things is
that I've got a completely cleardesk, you'll be chained to your
desk for perpetuity and neverget away.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:19):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (12:19):
And therefore the skill, which often isn't the
case in very largeorganisations, it's been pretty
brutal about prioritising. Thisabsolutely has to be done, right
better do that. Tax return? Yes.
I've been nice to talk and youhave to permanently sift about
what really needs to be done.
But you can only know whatreally needs to be done if you
(12:42):
have a very, very clearidentity, where you want to be.
And the struggle, and I thinkThe Portfolio Collective has
been really cool about this ishelping people work out what
their goal should be.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:54):
Yeah.
Ed Goodchild (12:54):
Because otherwise, it's just a bit of a random
walk. And it might work and itmight not but I'm a bit too much
of a control freak. Like toknow. It's a bit like Sat Nav
you don't you have a stab in thepostcode, you may get lost on
the way and you change the routeand all the other stuff. But if
you don't have this clearvision, then it's hard.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (13:11):
Yeah, knowing the B, where you're
going towards is definitely ahelpful starting place. As you
say it's a big part of what wedo. And it's a big part of how
we start our Catapult course,for example, just getting people
to really focus and often peoplehaven't taken the time to do
that. And it's might be becausethey haven't been allowed the
time to do it. How have youapproached starting new
(13:32):
businesses? You've started many,and you continue to work with
many, how do you go aboutthinking, right? Okay, is this a
good idea or a bad idea?
Ed Goodchild (13:41):
Well, I have a very simple process, because
that's the sort of way I work.
So the first one is, you justhave to have the idea. You don't
need to have solved sort of kindof nuclear fusion with this, it
is just an idea. Then I normallywrite a what I would refer to as
a scoping paper. So get somethoughts down on paper, normally
a couple of sides of A4, bash itout. Don't worry too much about
(14:02):
syntax, just bash it out, andthen move it around, then I
normally try and literallysketch it out as a picture.
Probably started because my kidsare a bit older, so they've all
done a levels and stuff, but asort of kind of Mind Map thing.
It's a doodle basically. Becauseyou're trying to work out how
will the different bits hold ontogether? Well, if I do this, I
could do that. Or there's adotted line. Oh, I know some of
(14:24):
you does that. So you'rebeginning to create a kind of an
ecosystem around it. Thentypically I go look for people
who can help me. They might beemployees, they might be
collaborators, they might befreelancers, don't really mind,
actually, I'm quite neutral. Andthat's normally done on a basic
skills matrix. I know where Iwant to go, these are the skills
(14:47):
I need. These are things Idefinitely don't know about.
It's a bit of self awarenessabout, no no no, there's no
chance I could do those, right.
I need to find somebody who'sgot some of these skills, or
then there's what I could do Ireally be much more efficient if
somebody else did it. So sort ofcomparative economics 101. I
mean, you do the top level onboards about board members and
the skills needed and put littleX's in? Well, you do the same in
(15:10):
your own in your own head. Thenyou've got to try and scoop
those people up to your to youridea. So that's your first
pitch. Because you've all thepeople you will approach go
"nah", well, then you need to goback at the office, or the back
bedroom, scratch your head andthink, Well, okay, maybe it
wasn't quite so cool, but thatthere's an iterative process.
But as long as I don't laugh youout completely, then there's
(15:32):
normally the part about tryingto find some money, I mean,
basically got two options, yourown back pocket or somebody
else's back pocket. There'salways a bit of tension about
that. And of course, the amountof money that you have then
determines the path that you cantake, and 10,000 different
models of doing that. I havegenerally gone the bootstrapping
(15:55):
model, because I've beenenthusiastic about what I want
to do. And I'd rather just geton with it. Because the really
ugly side of fundraising is yougo and talk to 100 people, and
95 of those people will tellyou, you're wrong. misplaced,
somebody else is doing it.
Because you got to find the fivethat will back you, let's say
and if you don't really, reallycan do it boot strategy. My
advice is do it because youdon't get diluted. You don't
(16:15):
have the problem of tonnes ofpeople telling your idea's
rubbish. Now there's adifference between genuine
feedback from people who want toengage with you. When you're out
being the supplicant wantingmoney, it gets really soul
destroying people's ownnarrative. So if you can avoid
just going and seeing them atall, then my advice is just
skirt around it try and work outa different way.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:39):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (16:39):
It's normally talked about that you go and
talk to friends and family. Iactually think that's the
hardest people to talk to
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:45):
You've got people who are completely
unbiased or bias in a completelydifferent way.
Ed Goodchild (16:51):
But also, they tend to be less hesitant about
giving you full feedback. Andthen of course, you got the
idea. You've scoped it out,you've got the team, and then
you need to start making ithappen.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (17:02):
Yeah, obviously, you've run
businesses, but also you haveroles within other
organisations, etc. Andparticularly being a board
member of several differentcompanies. We've talked about
the fact that that allows you tohave some give back, some play
within the roles, a slightlydifferent role to everything
landing on your plate, beingpart of a team, but what advice
would you give to people who arelooking to expand their
(17:24):
experience and getting involvedwith other companies?
Ed Goodchild (17:26):
Give it a go. It's hard, though, because generally
is much more straightforward topick up pro bono, what you find
is you end up being really,really busy, and you got no
income.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (17:37):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (17:37):
And depending on your personal circumstances,
that's either a good thing or abad thing, which is part of the
reason that trustee board, forexample, tend to be people or
retired because the money iskinda sorted. If, on the other
hand, you're still working, thenthere's a question to my time
that I like to give back in probono, philanthropy, all the rest
of it. By the way, thephilanthropy part is time and
(17:58):
effort is not to do with money,but it's trying to facilitate
and help and guide and judge.
There's a part of which is insort of a family, and pleasure
and life, then there's newbusiness and business
activities, things that I'vegenerated, and then there's
always a sort of the 10% isunallocated because you need to
have a float if you want to doother things. And I generally
rule of thumb work on thepremise. If I'm taking a new
(18:19):
thing in one of thosecategories, then normally,
you've got to give up one. Now Ithen tend to wrap that in good
governance and say, Well, if I'mgoing to take an appointment for
something, yeah, three years,maybe with the two year
extension. I've got into troubleon a couple of different ways.
Because I say, Look, I'll takeit if there's a clear way that I
can find my replacement. Oractually what I jokingly say is
(18:43):
after about four years, you needto sack me, because otherwise it
becomes a perpetuity that's notgood for them is not good for
me.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (18:51):
That's a really interesting and honest
way of looking at it. And alsoan honest conversation to have
at the start, I guess. And notmany people are used to having
those kind of honestconversations right at the
beginning, like this is what Iwant to achieve out of it. And
this is my expectations. Butthat's a really important
conversation to have.
Ed Goodchild (19:07):
I just think it's a open transparent one. So we're
talking about clear objectivesfor business, I would contend
you would have kind of broadlythe same thing for your life,
but with business is either asmall part or a large part or
whatever portion you want. Butif that general planning works
for business, well then I alsothink it applies to life as
well. One of the things that Iwould encourage anybody who's
(19:30):
stepping out from anorganisation into a portfolio
career is the real value ofmentors and coaches, my general
steer is and to pay for it,because it's really worth it. So
I spent quite a lot of timereally pre the Zendht venture
studio idea, which is reallycoalescing all the things that
(19:51):
I've evolved to try and give ita coherence and structure
because they're allinterrelated. And quite often
people tell me Oh, you're doingtoo many things. You can't
possibly And how does it work?
So, ultimately a bit like I wastalking about drawing out the
doodle? Well, I've now turned itinto a website so somebody can
see what I do. So hopefully thatdemonstrates the coherence, and
they go Ah! Okay, I understandwhat he's doing. But part of
that is having a really cleargoal. And I have a number of
(20:14):
sessions with a really greatcoach. And I have it as my
singular objective, what I referto as long term financial
equilibrium, that's differentfor everybody. It does come down
to a number but the number comesdown to Well, why is that number
because I need or want toachieve these goals in order to
do that. The machinery needs toproduce that, it gives you a
(20:37):
timeline, it's not quite a cashflow forecast, but it's got
elements of that. And therefore,if that's the direction I want
to go in well, then these arethe things I need to do to have
a pretty high probability inbeing able to hit it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (20:51):
And that's really good advice. And I think
that's certainly something thata lot of full stage portfolio
professionals need to remindthemselves of. It's kind of
having that end goal. Mostbusinesses have an exit
strategy. What is your exitstrategy of your career? And
what do you want to achieve atthe end of the day, it's a
blaise way way of putting it ora rather clinical way of putting
it maybe. But yeah, it's aninteresting thought to have an
(21:14):
apply to how you...
Ed Goodchild (21:16):
One of the pushback, again, I push back on
this idea about having an exitstrategy, I suppose because I
spend 10-12 years as a portfoliomanager. So picking stock, and
building a portfolio. It's notpredicated on an exit. It's
predicated on producingsomething that can continue to
create new businesses, but thestarting factor isn't selling
(21:36):
any of them. Now, like allentrepreneurs, if somebody comes
around the corner and offers youridiculous price for something,
you think it's worth 10, andthey offer you 1000, yeah yeah
you bite their arm off! Notwithstanding that as a as a sort
of the outlier event. The waythat I constructed it is to do
build and hold, not really tosell anything, the discipline,
(21:57):
the financial discipline is tobuild it such that it could be
sold, because that keeps all theducks lined up and everything
working properly. But one of thebits I really pushed back
against as a kind of commonprevailing culture is you have
an idea, you kind of throw lotsof money at it, it has a sudden
rise in value and you flog itoff to somebody else. No, I
really like the idea of buildinga portfolio of businesses.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:20):
You know the way that you have created
your businesses. It ispassion-led, it is your
interest, in a fluffier waythey're your babies, they're
part of what you...
Ed Goodchild (22:29):
They're not my babies, am I angry teenagers...
don't...trust me.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:37):
I did have in one of our previous podcasts
actually spoke to somebody whodescribed their children as
their startups because theyliterally are behaving like
startups and that you know,they're toddlers. that you got
to put a lot of work in, etc,etc. And the analogy went on. So
it's nice to hear your businessbeing angry teenagers.
We talk a lot about success andwhat it means. And obviously,
(22:59):
that's tied up in you know, whatwe were just talking about in
whether we hold on to ourbusinesses, whether we hold on
to our roles that we have, or wedevelop a we have cut off
periods for different things,etc. Success is obviously very
important to what we do, what itmeans how it changes as we go
through our careers. But I thinktalking about failure is just as
(23:21):
important. And there, there isall these stats in the world
about how such and such numberof startups fail and etc, etc.
You've got to get through thefirst three years or five years
or blah, what failures havehelped you along your way? And
do you see them as failuresanymore?
Ed Goodchild (23:38):
Oh the way is littered with failure. I can't
tell you the number of thingsI've been massively unsuccessful
in and all sorts of things youthought were getting a bit
brighter here and and had endedup in cul de sacs. Through
nobody's particular fault, theyjust have. So, I'm just in the
process of, well it is lauchednow, deputy finances is a
property finance platform. Sothe basic problem seeking to
(23:59):
solve, don't need to worry aboutit here is a long term
persistent problem. And this isthe fifth way that I've tried to
solve it. Now this won't work.
It will work. But actually itwill work because his
predecessors couldn't, didn't,shouldn't have worked.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (24:16):
Yeah.
Ed Goodchild (24:16):
So for example, as we begin the marketing boards,
and somebody says, Well, why isit like that? You go, Well,
because we tried the other ways,and they didn't work. And
because of the lessons welearned. So for example, this is
about bringing private capitalinto the gap between what the
bank will provide to aresidential developer and what
the developers got. And there'salways a gap. So you can try it
(24:38):
as a fund, but then nobody wantsto do blind pool investing
because they want to be able totouch it. So that didn't work. I
thought I could do somethingcalled a reverse loan note in
that you raise a bond and thenyou do one with lending but
anybody who puts money in wantsto know where it's going to go.
So that didn't work. I tried todo it as simple introducer to a
finance broker, but that didn'twork because unless they
completed the deal, I didn't getpaid. So I have no control over
(25:01):
it. But this is this iterativeprocess, the risk of doing it in
startup land, is it all tends tobe a bit public. But you can't
do it all in the laboratory. Youjust have to get out and go and
do it. Yeah, no, I think youhave to willingly embrace
failure. And also don't let itdo your head in, it is just
part of it. In fact, I wouldcontend that the measure of an
(25:25):
entrepreneur is how you dealwith failure.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:29):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (25:29):
Dealing with success is really easy. Happy
days, that's great. It's whenit's going wobbly or it's going
wrong. Can you stay calm?
Because there is normally a wayout. Secondly, can you keep your
team together? Becauseeverybody's under different
pressures, there's a unifyingfactor of success. But if that
tips into failure, can you keeppeople with you?
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:52):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (25:52):
My failure... but the joy is, if you can, well,
then you go around the blockagain. And what it does mean, in
your construct of how you putyour portfolio together is to
have some things that are reallylow risk. So if you are a global
equity portfolio manager, youhave some high risk ideas have
got really high returns, butthey potentially high. But you
(26:13):
also have some really boringthings at the bottom, that just
sort of kind of pay the bills.
And actually, in business, youneed a bit of that as well. In
particular, following theportfolio route. So actually a
couple of things where you doyour day's work, you get your
day's pay, that's fine. mortgageis covered, can eat and drink,
you're okay is probably pretty,pretty key.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:34):
Yeah. And that's why a lot of people, and
certainly my experience of itwas starting off with paid PAYE
jobs and then building sidehustles. And then taking a leap
with one or many of them,
Ed Goodchild (26:46):
It doesn't need to be this kind of black or white,
it can be a process. It's notthat hard and fast. Again, to go
back to something I mentionedbefore, this cultural shift, if
you've had a full time job,doesn't matter what level in
what industry, that's the thingyou've done. And that breeds a
certain degree of certainty. Andit's having the right attitude,
(27:06):
to be able to cope with thisfluid movement of lots of
different things happening atthe same time. I mean, one of
the things I do, I wake upearly, and I tend to go for a
walk, actually, it's lovely, noearphones, no, no digital media,
no nothing there, just go for awalk clear out. And it's lovely,
you just kind of organiseyourself for the day. And I do
that, basically seven days aweek, all through the year, I
(27:29):
would thoroughly recommend it askind of a zero cost ability just
to have clear thinking time. Andsometimes thinking time can be
about the square root ofnothing, it doesn't have to be
some great kind of life'spurpose. Sometimes walking along
completely neutral is alsolovely.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:46):
There's lots of science around having
the best ideas when you're inthe shower or when you're
walking, because that's the timewhere your brain can switch into
neutral and have some space tothink about things, to play
around with some ideas.
Ed Goodchild (27:59):
It's been said about children, you need to have
some periods of enforcedboredom. I've got another number
of pet peeves, but one of whichis whenever he says, Oh, I'm too
busy. No, that's just a failureto prioritise. So that's me
being pretty blunt, I block outbig chunks of time in my diary,
which is just nothing. And it'snot that I do nothing in the
(28:20):
nothing period, it's just, I candetermine what I do in those
periods. rather than it beingimposed upon me. I might be
working really hard, I mightjust go and have a cup of tea
and sit on the sofa, doesn'tmatter. The fact is that you're
then in control and you don'tfeel like you're on this runaway
train. There's just sort of justzooming along and everything is
running past you and you can'tfocus. Gary Keller wrote a book
(28:43):
about blocking out time so thatyou have the air pockets, you
can come up for air, you canthink, you can reflect. I was
taught years and years ago thatyou wanted to write somebody a
really stinking email or aletter, you should write it when
you're really angry! And thenprint it out and leave it 24
hours, sleep on it. And then youcan correct the grammar. No, no,
but you then change the tone orrelative and again on that, and
(29:06):
I suppose is certainlyappropriate now is my default is
pick up the phone, I find it abit frustrating because the
default of the world seems to besend an email, but it has no
nuance to it. It's so easy forpeople to get the wrong end of
the stick.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:21):
I was an oddity in my last corporate job
because I was known for turningup of people's desks. Because if
I could walk to them, why wouldI send them an email?
Ed Goodchild (29:29):
Correct! Yes. And the other one is a really,
really cool one back into thekind of mentoring, coaching, one
is walking meetings. If you wantto have a good chat with
somebody, I did a wonderfulpiece of strategy work in the
middle between the two lockdown.
We went for a walk for an hour,just fabulous.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:44):
Up until obviously lockdown and tiers. I
was still every few weeks,popping into London and meeting
up with our CMO Fiona and justhaving some face to face time.
In fact, actually our whole teamhadn't spent any time together
face to face because we createdthis company in lockdown. Never
you know. not all of that oneteam had met met.
Ed Goodchild (30:01):
If you had told me 12 months ago that I would have
hired a number of people withouthaving met them. I'd have told
you, you were a lunatic! But itworked really well!
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:12):
Yeah, yeah, there are different ways of
doing it. There are differentways of getting a feel for
somebody and creating a teamthat works together and works
really well. Even if you haven'tmet. Obviously talking about
lockdown, it's very hard toavoid the subject and us
continuing in the tier system,having faced two lockdowns so
far. And we just mentioned thefact you've hired a lot of
people remotely, but how haveyou stayed connected to your
(30:34):
network and your colleagues,because you have many different
sets of colleagues, obviously.
Has there been anything thatstood out to you as a really
useful tool or method forkeeping communication open, when
we can't be able to get that youmentioned about, you know,
picking up the phone more thanemail? Is it just that that's
helped you? Or is there morethat helped you?
Ed Goodchild (30:51):
Yeah, picking up the phone, bit like your comment
about walking around and askingsomebody at the desk, you're
very hard to read because you'resuddenly pushing yourself into
their diary and you kind ofdon't know what to do - and you
think somebody frightfully rude,they haven't phoned me back now.
They've been madly busy onsomething else. Back to my
comment about prioritisation,yeah yeah, actually what they've
done is just prioritised me outof the loop. No, that's fine,
(31:12):
that's fine. Yeah, there tendsto be the phone. I mean, I have
a networking business. So I am,I suppose at one level, I'm a
professional networker. Sothat's my Lamwyk business, we
were running forums about everythree weeks face to face, in
kind of normal times, we now runthose on video conference call,
(31:34):
it's a bit different, it'sreally hard to do a roundtable
discussion. So we tend todefault to having two or three
speakers and I chair it and pullthat together. So that's, that's
one way of connecting with thenetwork, I also pivoted that
business to turn it into adigital publishing business. So
we put out a Quarterly Journal,and I do it as a commonplace
book. It's idiosyncratic, it'sjust a whole bunch of stuff I
(31:55):
find to be interesting. And backto my comment about reach and
range and scope and opportunityetc, I use LinkedIn a lot. Back
to being the nosy and curiousone, I'm interested in what
other people do, it's actually afabulous way of connecting with
former colleagues or workingoverseas. Because I've worked
for a Ossie firm in London, I'vegot a whole bunch of Australian
(32:16):
contacts. And actually, that's apretty good medium and being
able to do that. Back to the oneabout paying forward, that gets
to be more lively andinteresting, if you comment and
help and seek to engage withother people's networks, rather
than trying to get people alwaysto come to you, kind of be a
reasonable human being ratherthan trying to screw people up.
(32:36):
And yeah, that's probably aboutit. And when we're all a bit
constrained, I mean, I think thething that's really hard is if
you don't have a developednetwork,
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (32:46):
Yeah,
Ed Goodchild (32:47):
So I think those who are seeking to establish
themselves, it's much harder andLinkedIn being but one example.
You can kind of when you look atsomebody whose profile, it has a
different - it's often quiteignored by those people who've
been working for somewhere for15 years, but they're argument
is Why do I need it? Well, itcan actually be a bit of an
(33:10):
insurance policy.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (33:11):
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely
Ed Goodchild (33:12):
I started with LinkedIn years and years and
years ago when it first startedbecause I moved jobs a couple of
times and you couldn't take yourcontact book with you, it was a
property of the institution. Andfor years I just used on the
kind of the Rolodex, of boxes ofphysical business card, but they
date very quickly. Although, ittakes a certain degree of sort
of strength of character tothrow them away, because they
(33:32):
might be useful. So I switchedto using LinkedIn as effectively
as an online address bookbecause in the cloud and
therefore you were fine. So myadvice for anybody who is
looking or even thinking aboutportfolio like career, have a
network. Doesn't matter who itis or how many it is, have a
network because otherwise youfall into the category of
(33:54):
Shoulda, Could have, Didn't.
Doing that today from scratch,from your own house in lockdown
is definitely hard. But then howdo you it? Well, people you went
to school with, people who livenear with you, friends and
family, people you like about. Imean there are kind of standard
levers, it's not, that bit ain'trocket science. Oh, and I'm so
old that I I'm in thedemographic that quite enjoying
(34:15):
looking at rubbish stuff onFacebook. But I think that's got
zero value in terms of my ownnetwork. I know other people use
it for business, personally isjust for silliness. But it's
keeping connected with otherpeople. It's quite neat as well.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (34:30):
Yeah, you do never know where that next
connections going to come from,or that next recommendation,
etc, because somebody will seeand connect the dots.
Ed Goodchild (34:39):
I mean, I often get the comments - how do you
know all these people? Get thissort of little weird sort of
troll under a bridge collectingbusiness cards! Well, it goes
back to the nosy and thecuriosity part is if you're
interested in other people, ifyou are minded to be welcoming,
then that's how you get to knowpeople. If you're frightfully
closed down and head down andnever look anybody in the eye
(35:01):
and you don't ever offeranything up, you're likely to
have quite a small circle ofpeople, you know. And that may
be fine. But if you want to getinto a portfolio career you want
to be out and about, some ofthose habits, you're probably
gonna have to change.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (35:12):
Yeah, absolutely. I going to end on my
own nosy and curious question,given the number of things that
you're involved with, and you'vecreated, and this might be a
hard question. But what ventureor role is your favourite?
Ed Goodchild (35:26):
Ah, don't have favourites?
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (35:28):
No? No, not at all. Not one that you really
lean towards?
Ed Goodchild (35:35):
Yeah, that's tricky. The reason it's really
tricky is I have built thisventure studio of lots of
different ideas. And they're allconnected. So it's a bit like
the human body. I mean, kind ofwhich foot do you prefer? Your
right foot, your left foot?
Well, I'm quite fond the both ofthem. So that's sort of the
that's out of the pushbackanswer. But I also need to
nurture all of them because theyare all interdependent. The
(35:58):
marketing and creative agencygroup that we've created. Well,
largely, my two businesspartners have, but agencies
within that one of them's doingthe digital transformation to
build my cyber FinTech model,one of the agencies is doing a
PR for one of the otherbusinesses. So everything's
interleaved. So as soon as youdrop out one part, you end up
with the law kind of unintendedconsequences, because it's not
(36:19):
just you've lost that bit, butit all the effect that it
ripples through. And it's thegreatest strength, I suppose it
is everything is interrelated,you're not going to get me to
pick a favourite. But havingsaid that, there's always a
special spot for your firstborn.
And the first thing you dobecause it in my case was
(36:41):
Chawker. We started life as awealth advisory business back in
2011. That was when I did stepoff the stage and go, Okay, can
I do this, on my own, in arecession be made redundant,
decent size mortgage, wife notworking, couple of kids in
school? Okay, so what do I donow? You're definitely
(37:01):
vulnerable at that point. Thatis kind of the beating heart of
the beginning of it. I mean, Istill had it. And I'm still
doing lots of other things. Butthat's really kind of the
nucleus right at the beginning,in the middle, or put it around
another way. If I hadn't donethat, I probably wouldn't do the
things that came along behindit.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (37:18):
Yeah. And beginnings are really important.
We talk a lot about endings, butbeginnings are really important.
Thank you so much for your time,Ed. It's been so interesting
talking to us today. And I can'twait to find out what next.
Ed Goodchild (37:31):
Stop. Thank you very much indeed for having me.
I love sharing and helping andbeing engaged and... Terrific.
Thank you very much indeed.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (37:37):
Brilliant.
Thanks, Ed.
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