Episode Transcript
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Tish (00:02):
So for anyone who's been
on the dating scene recently,
you know how crazy it can be outthere in dating land, and
you're going to love our guesttoday.
Hope with Holly has been asocial media sensation with her
unique approach to dating.
Ellen (00:21):
You know, her message is
one of hope for us daters and I
know our listeners know I'm onthe dating scene, so it's also a
message, though, of takingcontrol and finding good,
healthy, long-term relationships, and I love that part of her
message.
Tish (00:40):
You know I've been
following Holly on TikTok and
have laughed along with her.
You know she's just soauthentic about her dating
stories, and boy, could I relateto some of these stories as
well.
Ellen (00:54):
You know.
It's so true, tish, we laugh alot about our dating stories.
I watched a lot of her TikToksthat I hadn't seen earlier this
week and I too laughed andrelated.
But what makes Holly differentfor me is that she realized she
wanted to take time to get toknow someone before intimacy and
, I think, at midlife.
(01:14):
This is really an important andinteresting approach and this
day and age, like we all know,it's hard to slow down, but
slowing down can be really good.
But before we get into Hopewith Holly and Meet Holly, tish,
you know I love this part ofthe show.
What kind of obsession do youhave for me this week?
Tish (01:34):
I have a really simple
obsession this week.
So for Christmas I got a brandnew air fryer with all these
different levels and stuff thatyou can put in there.
It was from my daughter and herboyfriend and I will take
something out that needs to bedone and I think how long do I
need to put it in?
Like it's never clear to me howto use this.
So my obsession this week iswith this little flip chart that
(01:58):
has a magnet so you can stickit on a refrigerator.
That tells you it's like acheat sheet for your air fryer.
And they also have them forwhat is that other gadget that
people use the Instapot.
The Instapot, they have one forthat too, and it's really
inexpensive.
And I thought, oh, this isgreat because you can just grab
(02:19):
it, look up what you need and go.
And that is my obsession,because I'm going to be trying
to eat healthier this year.
Ellen (02:27):
You know I have to share
that I was very anti air fryer
because I was like what do Ineed something to just make
French fries?
Right, it was like, but we gotone, probably four or five
months ago, and I use it foreverything and there are so many
people on social media sharingreally great healthy recipes,
but it is always kind of a crapshoot for me.
(02:49):
I'm going to put it in what doI do?
I think I might grab one ofthose two tish, sounds good.
We'll have to share some airfryer recipes, two hun.
Tish (02:59):
Yeah, there you go.
Well, what about you, Ellen?
What is your obsession for thisweek?
Ellen (03:03):
So I know you remember
when we had tea barns on talking
about creating a non-toxicenvironment, and I've been
seeing a lot of informationabout dishwasher tabs, how
they're coated in plastic and itmade me think about and how you
know it was an area in my homethat I really was just buying a
(03:26):
big vat of dishwasher tabs up atCostco.
So I got these Blue Landdishwasher tabs on Amazon and
they are like free of everythingparaben, ammonia, you know this
, that but mostly they're freeof the plastic wrap that they
say can disintegrate and then weeat small bits of it.
So I think that show we watchedyou are what you eat, and the
(03:50):
and some of these things weremaking me think about this.
So it's a really great, easychoice and it comes in a
refillable package.
So again you know, really goodfor the environment.
So Blue Land dishwasher tabsare my obsession this week.
Tish (04:05):
You know, I never really
thought about that plastic
coating that keeps all thoselittle pretty colors of
detergents and stuff in thosetabs.
But yeah, it's going somewhere.
It's going into our watersystem, is going into our bodies
, so I like that one.
That might be a good easyswitch.
You know, making small progresson, you know what we expose our
(04:25):
bodies to.
Well, I want to go ahead andmove on to Holly, because this
is really going to be a good one, right?
So Holly is a social mediasensation who has one of the
most open and honest dialoguesout there about getting in touch
with yourself, first of all,and what you really want.
(04:46):
Holly was a graduate fromLiberty University with a degree
in biblical studies, and shehas various pastoral positions
that she has held.
She's worked as a sex educationteacher and she has a very
successful event planningbusiness.
So I want to welcome you, Holly, to our podcast.
Holly (05:07):
Hello, thank you, Ellen
and Tish for having me.
This is going to be so much fun.
Ellen (05:14):
We are so excited to have
you, Holly, and you know.
Could you tell our listeners alittle bit more about your path
and how it led you to open upyour life on social media?
Holly (05:27):
Yeah, okay.
Well, first of all, I wanteveryone to know that I'm not a
pastor anymore, so they are notgoing to hear foul words out of
my mouth and dick jokes galore.
I have not been to church in 15years.
I got plenty of it during mypastoral ship.
(05:50):
But I did end up, as a resultof being in the church, in an
arranged marriage.
A prophet came to our church,told me who I had to marry, and
I was young and dumb and did it.
We did not kiss until we gotengaged.
We didn't have sex until ourwedding night, and I don't
recommend that either.
(06:11):
Big mistake in that area for us.
But because of my religiousbeliefs I stayed married because
I thought divorce was a sin.
And when my first daughterpassed away at birth and that's
(06:34):
when I started questioningeverything and kind of
deconstructing from my superreligious halt-like beliefs I
had four babies in three yearsand so by the time I realized
that divorce could be an option.
I had four babies at home and Iwas like, oh my god, I don't
(06:59):
want them to be raised in abroken home.
So I'm going to stick it out.
We tried.
I went to therapy for I don'tknow, it's not many, many years
eight years, I think in themarriage and read every single
book I could to figure out howto be happy in a marriage that
(07:24):
was just truly like a businesspartnership right.
It was.
There was no love or tendernessor nurturing of each other's
souls or anything like that.
So I finally, we finally got anamicable divorce, and then I
get thrust into the dating worldwhich was so freaking, scary,
(07:50):
especially considering how mypast dating experiences what
were?
you know?
I didn't even have sex with myhusband until our wedding night.
And here I'm going out on thesedates with men who were like
expecting kissing and sex on thefirst date.
Yeah, now I will say that Itried to embrace my wholeness
and I I love how you said that.
(08:12):
Yeah, and I was like you knowwhat I'm going to taste?
The rainbow, I'm going to tryit all.
Yeah.
And I realized quickly, afterjust two men, that I wasn't cut
out for that life.
I guess people would considerme monoamorous, which means that
I only enjoy having sex withsomebody who I have an emotional
(08:34):
connection with.
So no shame on the hookup girls, it's just not me.
That's not how I flow.
But what was happening was Iwas realizing that I was just
kind of going along with howthey were telling me we were
supposed to be dating andfollowing their lead and not
(08:57):
really listening to my truthinside of me, which ended up
with me, you know, kissing rightaway and having sex right away,
which led me to be getting lipand dick drunk.
I call it.
Ellen (09:15):
Holly, I just have to say
this is so many women's stories
Letting the man take the leadin dating, whether you're 16 or
18 or 30 or 50, right, and so Ithink this is really resonating.
Holly (09:31):
And I have no problem
with a man taking the lead.
If I want to follow Right andthat's the part that I think so
many of us women have,especially as one who grew up in
the church and had todeconstruct from this is that
the man knows better.
Right, just follow their lead.
They have your best interest inmind.
(09:54):
Put a book, oh yeah, right.
So I had to.
Well, I had some toxicrelationships, some codependent
relationships, some narcissisticrelationship where I ended up
having to get a restrainingorder out on this person, and
(10:16):
that was a real huge blow to myego and like, wow, you're not
doing this right.
So how do you keep being inthese toxic relationships?
And by toxic I just mean likeit's on and off, and on and off.
I break up, I get back withthem, I break up, I get back
(10:37):
with them, I keep going back formore of this.
Ellen (10:40):
Right nothing changing.
Nothing changing either Sameold, same old right.
Holly (10:45):
Yes, so I decided to take
some time off and heal, because
that's what I heard you'resupposed to do.
So I was like, well, what'sbeen working for me or what's
been doing, what I've been doinghasn't been working for me, so
let me try something different.
Tish (11:00):
So, holly, I think like
what's so unique about your
approach and it sounds like thiswas born out of this taking a
break time was this 90 day rule.
Holly (11:11):
Yes.
So I had a dating coach reachout to me on TikTok and she was
like girl, you need my help.
And I was like, no, she lookedlike a Sunday school teacher to
me and I was like, please do notbring me your rules, I am done
with rules.
But then she told me that shehad been a stripper for 20 years
and I was like, oh okay, I'lllisten to you.
(11:32):
You know men probably betterthan anybody else do or does.
So she wrote this book calledno More Assholes by Chantel
Heidi, and so I read it and whatI loved about it was I didn't
(11:54):
have sex before marriage,because it taught you to value
yourself and even though I thinkthat's an extreme thing to have
, I also didn't enjoy having sexright away.
So I felt like this was areally good middle ground of
listen.
First of all, what I did was Iwrote a list of what I really
(12:21):
wanted in a man.
Okay, this took a lot of workbecause before I could get to
that list, first I had to writewhat my values were.
I read Mark Manson's book theSubtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck,
and he teaches you how to knowwhat your values are.
So I read his book, came upwith my 10 values, and then that
(12:47):
led me to come up with my 10goals that I wanted in my life.
And then my dating coach toldme I had to write 50 things that
I like about myself.
So that led me down this path ofokay, well, do I even love
myself?
Like, do I even like myself anddo I love myself?
(13:09):
So all of that led to mewriting my list of 35
non-negotiable that I want in aman.
But here's the key was I had tobe all these things too.
So you can't write downsomething that you're not.
So you can't say you want a manwith a six pack if you don't
have a six pack, and so on andso forth.
But mine is mostly just allcharacter qualities, like he
(13:32):
needs to be family oriented, heneeds to be physically and
emotionally safe, he needs to besocially liberal because I have
a transgender son and so I needa man who's not a man.
So I need a man who is not onlytolerates that but celebrates
it.
So that's what I worked on.
And then she told me that Ineeded to have more self control
(13:53):
.
I was like I don't want to Like.
If I'm a horny bitch and I dohave a very high sex drive and I
love sex, I consider myself asex goddess, and if I meet
somebody and I do have anemotional connection, I don't
(14:15):
want to wait.
And he was like well, how'sthat been working out for you?
Okay, touche, lady, touche.
Ellen (14:25):
So when people ask you
that, like, how's that been
going for you?
Tish (14:29):
Yeah, it's like turning
the mirror.
It's like turning your face toa mirror.
How does that look?
Ellen (14:35):
Yes, you know what, holly
, I wanted to say, though all
these things that you did weresuch great work about you.
Yes it started with you.
It started with you and that'swhat I love about this approach.
And I think, like I'm sittinghere saying I haven't written
what I love about myself, Ihaven't thought about what I
(14:57):
really want in that man andagain, you're right, it's really
not six packs or having a fullhead of hair or being six feet
tall.
It's the real quality of thatperson.
But I love these steps that youtook about self-awareness and I
think, when I listen to you onsocial media and I see you're
(15:17):
always talking about this toknow yourself, to be aware, to
trust yourself, not just indating.
These things I see go acrossyour whole entire life, right?
Holly (15:29):
Yes, yes, 100%.
So you can't aim at a targetthat you don't see right.
And so I am successful in mybusiness, I'm a successful mom,
I'm a great friend, I'm awonderful sister and I'm
successful in all these otherareas of my life because I have
(15:50):
direction and goals and I knowwhat I want in those areas.
But for some reason, with therelationships and then I would
just flounder all around and go.
I was so more worried about dothey like me versus do I like
them.
Tish (16:07):
Oh my gosh say that again
Because I think women need to
hear that.
Holly (16:12):
Yes, I would go into
dates with anxiety, worried are
they gonna like me?
With no thought about whetheror not am I gonna like them, and
it would change how I wouldspeak and what I would say.
I decided to turn dating into aself-exploration experiment, so
(16:35):
I got on the dating apps, eventhough I think they are a
dumpster fire, and I juststarted accepting dates and
started learning how to vet menbetter.
And what I loved about thisprocess that I came up with was
I'm going to practice theseskills that I'm learning on
(16:57):
these dates.
Okay, so I'm gonna practicespeaking my truths.
I'm gonna practice enforcing myboundaries, which doesn't mean
saying what your boundary is.
It means actually like takingaction.
If you cross my boundary, I'mgoing to remove my self from
your presence and walking away.
I'm going to practice listeningto my intuition and my gut and
(17:22):
I'm going to practice, you know,being vocal about what I want
and what I don't want and beingauthentically myself in front of
these people.
So that was so hard to likespeak your truths.
(17:42):
And what I did was I came upwith this mantra say what you
mean without saying it to me,right, cause I'm a recovering
people, pleaser.
I'm such a recovering peoplepleaser Right here and I would
get so afraid of what.
Am I gonna hurt their feelings,right?
And so I decided well, I don'twant to hurt their feelings.
(18:07):
Am I a mature enough person tobe able to speak the truth
without hurting their feelings?
So that was a good thing for meto practice too.
So you know, I would tell guyson the first date.
If things went well, I wouldsay so.
Listen, I am doing this newthing where I am trying to get
(18:28):
to know a man as a friend first,to see can we have a solid
foundation of friendship beforewe have physical intimacy.
Because, look, the GottmanInstitute of Relationships say
that an emotional connection isfive times more important than
physical connection in anyintimate relationship and any
(18:52):
romantic relationship.
So this is what I would like todo.
So usually that takes me 90days to create a friendship and
know whether or not you'reemotionally and physically safe
for me to start that with.
So my rule was, or my guidelinewas, 90 days of no kissing, no
(19:17):
sex, no sleepovers and noexclusivity.
Ellen (19:22):
So, ollie, did guys just
get up and walk when you said
that, or?
Holly (19:28):
they like Good question.
So I have lots of reactions.
Some guys would be like, oh mygosh, that's so fantastic, I
love that for you.
Like, yeah, that's smart,that's the way to do it.
Let's have a second date.
And then I would never hearfrom them again.
So, and that was fine with me,because rejection is just
(19:52):
redirection, okay.
So no problem, I'm pivoting.
You're not for me.
Some guys would sit there andargue with me in debates.
That is not healthy.
That's, you'll never find a manwho's willing to do that.
Nobody wants to, nobody isgonna have that happen.
Or and so I would be like, okay, you obviously don't know how
(20:13):
to respect boundaries and myboundaries, and that's okay, you
can go, do you and you can gosleep around.
That's not what I'm doing,Because I'm looking for a
long-term relationship.
If you're looking just to hookup, no shame in that game, do
that, but that's not for me.
Then I had guys that would belike I can change your mind real
(20:35):
fast, you know.
Tish (20:37):
The challenge, the
challenge.
Holly (20:39):
The challenge exactly.
And I would tell them yeah well, I didn't have sex with my
husband until our wedding night,so good luck with that buddy.
And I don't want a man whowants to break my boundaries and
wants to challenge myboundaries.
So I was able to tell him thankyou so much for your time.
We are not compatible.
(20:59):
Good luck with your life.
That was my elevator speech,because I had to come up with an
elevator speech, so I wouldn'tbe rude or mean because I don't
need to do that either.
Tish (21:12):
But here's the thing,
holly, you were changing the
rules on guys.
Guys have been so conditionedthat they set the pace and it's
whatever they want, and that'swhat happens.
And women haven't reallystarted to do what you do and to
say you know, where am I, whatis it I want?
So, yeah, I love that approachWell the thing is.
Holly (21:32):
It used to be that way.
It used to be, that the womenset the rules and then, with
social media and dating appscoming along, that changed all
the rules.
People were able to haveinstant gratification whenever
they wanted, and that led tosome addictions and dopamine
(21:53):
addictions basically, instantgratification.
So, yeah, I'm bringing thoserules back, at least for me.
Everybody can do whatever theywant to do, but if I'm looking
for a long-term relationship,I'm looking to build a solid
friendship first, and thankgoodness because that eliminated
so many people who were justlooking to hook up and not have
(22:16):
a long-term partnership.
So I did have men really loveit and say, well, god, this
takes the pressure off, becausenow I don't have to know.
Like, do I lean in now becauseyou want me to kiss her now?
Da, da, da, da, and they reallywant to vet you too, and
(22:38):
vetting is super important to me.
So, along those terms, I thencame up with my vetting
questions that I asked myselfwhen going on a date.
I listen, I'm an event planner,okay?
Tish (22:55):
I'm an organizer or?
Holly (22:56):
researcher, planner type
of girl.
Tish (22:59):
But by writing these down
it organizes your own thoughts.
It really creates what it is isimportant to you and you can
categorize it.
Holly (23:08):
Not only does it do that,
but it holds me accountable
Right.
Ellen (23:12):
You know, the thing I've
always talked to a lot of
girlfriends about too is somehowwe act like this is the last
man that's ever coming along andwe've got to just be like.
Well, that doesn't really work,but okay, I'll, you know, and I
think this is such anempowering flip.
(23:32):
You have flipped the cup on itand it really goes through.
You know what is it for you asthe woman that is important, and
what I love too, is you've justknocked out a whole bunch of
people that just don't.
Holly (23:50):
You could have wasted
time with Folly without sharing
this 90 day plan, right, and soI think that's really important
both of those, and my favoritething is that you knock out a
lot of abusers, because abusersdo not like to be told no.
Abusers are looking for apeople pleaser, an empath, and
(24:14):
someone who's going to justdisregard their own boundaries
and roll with whatever they want.
So when I tell them no and Iwatch their reactions, I know
right away you're used tocontrolling and manipulating, so
, and the definition of anabuser is someone who controls,
(24:35):
manipulates and neglects.
So I get to knock out a lot ofabusers from the get-go.
Some can slip through becausethey can fake it till they make
it.
But what I love about thiswhole process is, too, is it
continues to hold me accountableto.
What do I actually want?
Because I spent a year creatinga life that I absolutely love,
(25:00):
and I read Dr Shafali's book ARadical Awakening, where she
talks about how you have tolearn to be your best companion,
and you have to learn to loveyourself so well that you can
recognize when other people comeinto your life whether or not
they love you that well andwhether or not they should stay,
(25:20):
and if they don't, then theyshould go.
And so that is really my whole.
I never thought I would betalking about dating so much
online, but really thefoundation of it all is loving
yourself and having and notabandoning your own wants and
(25:41):
desires and your own boundaries,and really just enjoying your
life so much that you don'tabandon yourself and you go
after what you really do want.
And if a man doesn't come alongthat fits that list, then wait,
(26:01):
I can live a Golden Girlslifestyle with my Golden Girl
girlfriends and we will be fine,right, exactly Because I have
got six dildos in my bedsidetable that take care of me.
Ellen (26:12):
Really really well.
Holly (26:15):
Okay, my clit sucker.
My womanizer is amazing.
Tish (26:20):
I love that.
We'll put legal-.
Now, holly, I wanna get you toshare with us some of these like
vetting questions, like give usan example of a vetting
question or one of your like 36,you know.
Ellen (26:37):
Non-negotiable.
Tish (26:38):
Qualities, yeah,
non-negotiables.
Holly (26:40):
Okay, well, first of all,
vetting questions are different
than questions.
I ask them.
I have, if you, if all.
So I have.
I'm on Instagram, facebook,youtube and TikTok, and if you
go to any of them for Hope withHolly, you can go to my website
and you can download all of thisstuff for free, cause I really
do want to help women and menlearn to get the life that they
(27:04):
want.
So I have on there a list ofquestions you can ask your date
to find out more about them, todig deeper, but the vetting
questions are the 10 questionsthat you ask yourself To know
whether or not this is a goodperson.
So question number one is dothey make me feel physically and
(27:24):
emotionally safe?
So, when I share my feelingswith them, is it done without
judgment?
Are they judging me?
Do they have any kind of angeror control issues that would
make me feel unsafe?
And then I always do abackground check.
Ellen (27:45):
You know, Holly, I have
Googled guys that I have been
talking to on online dating andit's unbelievable what you can
find out just from a simple logo.
Yeah, yeah.
Holly (27:56):
You have to go to that
feed, right?
I made that mistake with mylast boyfriend and it ended up
with me getting him arestraining order.
So, yeah, highly recommend abackground check.
Number two do they make me feelvalued?
Do they actively listen andgive me their full attention?
Do they appreciate my time?
Do they prioritize me andrespect my boundaries?
(28:18):
Number three, and this is areally, really good one Do I
like them and I rate them withthe word R-A-T-E R?
Do I respect them?
A meaning do I want to be abetter person around them?
Okay, A.
(28:38):
Do I admire them and am Iinspired by their qualities or
achievements in life?
E do I see them as my equal anddo they see me as their equal?
And then, oh, sorry, T, do Itrust them and believe they have
my best interest at heart?
And then, E do I see them as myequal?
That really forces me toactually think do I actually
(29:03):
really like this person?
Wow, I love those things,Because sometimes I'm only
liking them because they'regiving me attention.
Sometimes I'm only liking thembecause they took me to a fun
adventure, you know, or abeautiful dinner, or sometimes I
only like them because they'refunny, but I don't actually
(29:23):
really respect them.
So then I go to number four arewe compatible?
Do we have the same values andgoals in life?
And since I have mine writtendown, I know what mine are and I
can I have them all on my phoneso I can easily access them
after a date.
I went out on a lovely datewith a man who lives in the city
(29:47):
of Charlotte and is a bankerand he moves around the country
all the time, but I've got a 15acre farm in the country.
I'm a country girl, I'm gonnalive and die here, okay, so we
just weren't compatible, eventhough he was a wonderful, sweet
man.
So there was no point inwasting either of our time.
Ellen (30:08):
You know what I mean,
right.
Holly (30:09):
Yeah.
Tish (30:11):
So then I think we spent a
lot of time trying to make men
fit.
We do, Because we heard thismessage you know everyone's not
gonna have everything you needand they're not gonna be perfect
, but I think women have takenit too far to make that square
peg fit in around holes.
Holly (30:30):
Yeah, yes, you only need
three things.
You need chemistry,compatibility and connection.
So if you know what those threethings are and what you like,
then that's all you need to knowand that's why I have my
non-negotiables written down.
Ellen (30:48):
Okay, give us a couple
non-negotiables, holly.
Holly (30:52):
So my non-negotiables
some non-negotiables are that
he's spiritual and non-religious.
I did the church thing and Idon't ever want to do that again
, and no shame to the people whodo.
It's just not gonna be a goodfit.
I like a man who's confident.
(31:12):
That's very sexy to me, so heneeds to have a confident soul.
If he-.
Now I have preferences on thebottom that are separate from my
non-negotiables, and mypreferences say that he will be
tall and wide and bearded anddrive a truck, you know, but-.
Ellen (31:35):
I think we've heard about
someone like that on your
social-.
Holly (31:39):
Girl, I got everything
that I wanted.
Yes, it's important to writethat shit down, manifest that.
So I need him to love my kidsand my family.
That's important to me.
I need him to be passionate andaffectionate, cause if you're
not grabbing my ass every time Iwalk by you, what's the point?
(32:00):
You know, like when we're in arelationship, you know, but
that's me.
I'm a physical touch girl.
I would like him to have asense of humor, to be self-aware
, to be responsible and have agood work ethic, to be handy.
That could be either you do thething and fix it, or you pay
(32:22):
someone else to fix it.
But either way, please get itdone.
I love-.
Ellen (32:28):
I think we all want a guy
that's handy in either way.
Right, you can pay for it anddo it.
Let me ask you this, I what Ihear from you too, is that you
stayed optimistic during thiswhole process.
I mean, you did all the backwork, but you know your
moniker's hope with Holly, andso I wondered if you could share
(32:50):
with our listeners a little bitabout your optimism around this
process.
Holly (32:57):
Well, the thing is I
wouldn't want to have sex with
myself, like.
So who wouldn't want to havesex with me?
So you know, like I like myself, I love my own company and that
is really all that matters.
It's really not about findingthe guy, as it is enjoying the
(33:22):
journey, you know, yeah right Ofself-discovery and loving
myself.
So I don't get heartbroken orupset.
I want to find real lovebecause I have never like
experienced true love in my life, being in an arranged marriage
for 20 years.
But the most important love Ican have is for myself, and that
(33:45):
really has been a game changerfor me.
When people would say that Ithought they were blowing smoke
at my ass all the time.
But I really did realize that Iwasn't truly loving myself If I
was continuing to do behaviorsthat were leading me heartbroken
(34:06):
all the time.
Ellen (34:07):
You know, colleen, say,
though, at Midlife these
messages are so important.
I know, for me I'm just soakingthis all in, but for our
listeners and a lot on thepodcast, tisha and I talk about
this journey of self-discoveryand we say, if not when like we
are at Midlife and these thingsof having a true love or
(34:29):
whatever it is that you want tobring into your life, it's this
journey of self-discovery thathelps get you.
I love this message.
I love what you're saying.
Tish (34:40):
Yes, and so every time
like oh, go ahead honey, I was
gonna say you've done so muchself-work.
That's what I think.
That really sets what you'redoing apart.
You're not just, you know,blowing smoke.
You did all this self-work ofdiscovering who you were before
you figured out what you wanted.
But let me ask you this whybring it to social media?
(35:00):
What was that part of it foryou?
Because I have to say you haveto be one of the most authentic
people out there talking aboutthese topics, because you talk
about when you stumble, when youquestion your own rules and
everything.
I mean you are very transparentwith it and I think that's what
really brings people in,because they know you're being
(35:24):
authentic.
Holly (35:26):
Yeah, so over two and a
half years ago, my son had his
six suicide attempt and the dayI took him to the airport to
send him to which was going tobe his final behavioral health
rehab facility across thecountry to get him help, he told
(35:51):
me you know that he has allthese thoughts in his head and
he explained what his thoughtswere.
And I was like I mean, we allhave those thoughts.
We all have these thoughts ofI'm unlovable, I'm never going
to do this, right, who am I?
What is my purpose?
Like, all of us have thesethoughts and you feel alone
(36:15):
because you think nobody else ishaving these thoughts.
So I came home that day I hadnever even been on TikTok, but
my kids were all on TikTok.
I have four teenagers in highschool and I said I'm just going
to go on and I'm going to starttalking about all my thoughts
and how the human experience,whether it's beautiful or it's
ugly, is totally normal.
(36:36):
And we all have theseexperiences.
We all succeed and we all failand we all have direction and we
all flip flop and we all falldown and it's all okay.
So learning that was my goal tocome on and show people how I
read all these self-help booksright and how I try and practice
(37:01):
them in my life, where Istumble, where I succeed and how
it's all beautiful, no matterwhat.
Ellen (37:10):
It's life.
Right, You're just putting lifeout there.
Holly (37:14):
It is life and I will say
I had to develop some pretty
thick skin.
Ellen (37:22):
What about your teens?
How do they feel about youbeing on social media?
So you know authentically.
Holly (37:29):
So their friends started
following me.
I told my kids when I first goton TikTok I'm like I need four
followers and it's you, becauseif you're not going to listen to
life lesson number 63 at home,maybe I'll pop up in your TikTok
you know screen, and you'llhear a life lesson and how this
(37:49):
is all normal and that it's okayto talk about your feelings and
emotions and stuff.
And they were like, oh, mom,whatever.
But then their friends startedfollowing me and their friends
would say, oh my gosh, your momis so cool or so smart or oh my
God, your mom was talking aboutsex today and that's weird and
(38:11):
so unfortunately, I've had tohurt tail and be a little more.
Oh God, listen, when my kids getolder and I get too explode and
talk about all the sex stuff.
You just wait, it is on.
But now they like it.
(38:33):
Now you know they like that,their friends like it and I'm
kind of the cool mom with theirfriends.
Sometimes they'll send mecomments and be like, oh my God,
you're so embarrassing andextra Well, tell me something.
I don't know already, you know,tell me something new there.
Okay, that was what started itis.
(38:53):
I just wanted people to see allthe thoughts.
You know, can we just get allthe thoughts out of our head and
let people know that they'renormal and that this is normal
and it's okay to have thesethoughts and it's okay to
struggle, you know?
So, anyway, can we go back tothe vetting questions?
(39:16):
Yeah, okay, so this is a goodone.
Number five was you askyourself, do I have physical
chemistry with this person?
And I got to tell you how Idetermine whether or not I have
physical chemistry with a man.
Is, I ask myself, can I seemyself on my knees blowing him?
(39:38):
Okay, that is for me, that isthe litmus test, for is this man
, am I attracted to this man?
Ellen (39:50):
Right, so, like I think a
lot of us are like, can we kiss
this guy?
But you're saying, could weblow this guy?
Holly (39:56):
Yeah, let's take it a
step further, because we could
probably kiss a lot of people,but would we, you know?
would we want to be down there.
Is the hygiene good?
Do we think the hygiene is good?
First of all, but you know also, does the flirting feel natural
?
Is there eye contact?
(40:17):
Is there positive and open bodylanguage when we're talking
stuff like that?
And then, number six do we havean emotional connection?
And I use the word crave,c-r-a-v-e, to know if I have an
emotional connection withsomebody.
So C stands for comfort.
Do I feel comfortable and safearound this person?
(40:39):
R stands for respect.
Do I feel like we respect oneanother and respect each other's
emotions?
A stands for authentic.
Do I feel like I can be myauthentic self or am I masking
or pretending to be somebodyelse?
(41:00):
Because if I'm pretending to besomebody else around him, we do
not have an emotionalconnection.
V is vulnerable and do I feelcomfortable enough to be honest
and share, you know, deep stuffwith him?
Then we might have an emotionalconnection.
And then E, and E is the mostimportant thing Do we both have
(41:24):
empathy for one another?
Can we express empathy?
Empathy obviously means can youput yourself in the other
person's shoes?
Or when you tell them a storyabout yourself, are they saying
oh, that's not right, or youshouldn't have done that or that
was crazy.
You shouldn't have felt thatway, that's right.
So an emotional connection isthe most important thing that
(41:49):
I'm constantly asking myself doI have this with this man?
Number seven do we have anintellectual connection?
Do we have engagingconversations?
Do we have shared interests?
Do we have a politicalalignment and intensity?
Because you could say you're aDemocrat, but are you an extreme
(42:17):
?
Are you extreme on that, youknow?
And are you very, very involved?
Do you need to be with somebodywho's very, very involved, or
do you care if you're withsomebody who's kind of
apolitical and doesn't reallywant to be involved?
So then, number eight do wehave a spiritual connection?
Do we have similar beliefs andintensity?
(42:37):
So that's the other thing.
People can say I'm a Christian,but okay, well, what kind of
Christian?
Are you a holiday Christianwhere you go Christmas and
Easter, or are you Sundaymorning, sunday night, wednesday
night Christian?
So are we spiritual?
And can we talk about meanings,the meaning of life, our
(42:59):
purpose in life?
Can we self-reflect, can we bemindful?
And that's really important tome.
So I want somebody who I cantalk spiritually with.
Basically, I want to date awoman with a dick.
Okay, which those two exist,but I have not found one that
I've connected with Number nine.
(43:20):
Are they a person of characterlike I am?
So on my list, mynon-negotiable list, I can't
answer something I'm not, so Ihave to also be patient and
trustworthy and responsible andloyal, and so are they those
things as well.
Tish (43:40):
Right.
Holly (43:41):
And are they sober from
addictions, and I'm talking
alcohol addiction, drugaddiction, porn addiction, sex
addiction, gambling addiction?
Ellen (43:53):
right.
Holly (43:54):
And food addictions too,
because I'm very susceptible as
a ADHD dopamine addict.
I'm very susceptible to thefood addiction.
So I need to be with somebodywho is relatively healthy.
And then number 10 is do theyrespond to my bids for
connection?
So when I attempt to connectwith them physically,
(44:18):
emotionally, verbally do, and Isay something like, oh my God,
look at the beautiful rainbow inthe sky, do they say God,
you're always looking at fuckingrainbows.
Or do they say, and do theyrespond positively oh, that's
beautiful Good eye.
You know, because what theGodman Institute says is that if
(44:39):
they respond positively to 80%or more of your bids for
connections, then that is a signthat you're going to have a
long-term healthy relationship,as long as the 20% that they
don't respond to isn't abusive.
Ellen (44:54):
Right, I think the
concept of bids.
We should definitely put a linkto a resource on that, because
it's something I recentlylearned about and I think it's
fascinating for women tounderstand that.
But I know, tish, we wanted totalk also with Holly a little
bit about dating apps, I think.
Tish (45:14):
Yes, and I specifically
want you to talk about the new
dating app that you're involvedwith out there too.
So how do you feel about mostof the dating apps?
Because I know it has been atrain wreck for me.
Holly (45:26):
It is a train wreck
because you get talking to these
guys and sometimes you'll bemessaging back and forth for two
freaking weeks and then theyjust ghost and nothing comes of
it.
And so I was working with acompany called Skip and had
multiple meetings with thepresident and correspondents,
(45:47):
and I am helping them markettheir dating app and it's Skip
to the first date is what it'scalled and so if they go to any
of my platforms and click on thelink in my bio, they can find
the way to download that datingapp, and I would love it if they
did, because what happens inthis dating app is you create
(46:11):
deal breaker questions.
After you create your profile,you come up with yes or no deal
breaker questions, like, one ofmy deal breaker questions is are
you married or in a long or ina relationship with somebody?
Because 46% of people on datingapps are in a relationship with
somebody already.
Tish (46:30):
So I don't want to.
They're just looking for a newone.
They're looking for a way out.
Holly (46:36):
Or they're just, or they
want to stay in their
relationship, and you are therestroking their ego Right At
night.
All their wife or husband islaying next to them.
They're messaging you, gettingtheir ego stroke so that they
can continue to have thesedopamine highs.
So, basically, if somebodylikes your profile, they have to
(46:58):
answer all of your deal breakerquestions correctly, and if
they do, they immediately canask you on a date, and Skip
already has asked you what datesand times are you available?
What foods sensitivities do youhave?
And they so.
I am dating a gentleman and hewent on to the app and asked me
(47:21):
out, and so I got a messagesaying you know, mountain man
wants to take you on a dateTuesday night at 6pm at this
restaurant.
And then I can look at hisprofile and I can accept or say
I prefer this restaurant or Ican let's change it this time of
day.
So that way, first of all,you're not getting scammed by
(47:45):
all the scammers who are nevergoing to meet you in person and
just want money.
You're not having any kind ofendless conversations, boring
conversations, with people whoit's not going to go anywhere
and they're meeting you onpublic so hopefully they're not
married and they wouldn't be tooembarrassed to do that.
But what I love about it is youget to have all your first
(48:07):
impressions and conversationsface to face, right, and you can
just be a quick coffee date.
It doesn't have to be a hugedinner, but this women
especially really pick up onenergy from people.
Tish (48:21):
I love the name skip.
It sounds like you're skippingall the bullshit.
You're skipping all the timewasting.
I used to say being on a datingapp is a full time job.
Holly (48:31):
Yeah, and here's the best
part too.
Two hours before the date, theapp messages you and makes you
confirm that you're still going,and then you can also put on
there I'm running 10 minutesbehind, 15 minutes behind,
whatever.
It lets the other person knowthat they canceled the date, so
you don't get set up.
Or, and if they don't show upto the dates, then they get
(48:56):
removed from the app because theapp is free.
Ellen (49:01):
I love this idea, holly,
because it means that both
people have the same intent,which is to get together and
meet and date, Because I thinkthat's the thing on the apps.
People have so many differentintentions, right, whether it's
stroking their ego, getting aside piece or getting money.
So yeah, yeah.
Tish (49:22):
Oh my gosh, Holly, we
could keep going on and on with
you and I know we're coming toour end and stuff like that.
But we always have this onequestion we love to ask and just
to let our listeners know,we're going to give all the
contact information how you canget a hold of Holly.
She does do one-on-oneappointments with people in
sessions and things.
So they'll all be all thatcontact in our show notes.
(49:45):
But, Holly, we need to knowwhat is your superpower.
Holly (49:52):
I can't decide between
two.
Can I say two?
Yes, I can say two yes, okay, Ihave no shame whatsoever.
I can talk about anything andeverything and all of my flaws
and any failure that I've everhad, because it is what it is.
But number two is I'm resilient.
(50:16):
I get knocked down like anybodyelse, but I refuse to fucking
stay there.
It might take me a couple ofweeks sometimes to get back up,
but I always get back up, and Ithink most of us do, and my goal
is to just keep decreasing thatamount of time that I have to
(50:36):
get back up.
Progress, not perfection, right?
Tish (50:41):
That's right and it sounds
like your whole story sounds
like an evolution of progress.
But the big thing is it startedwith self-awareness.
It started with you connectingto what, who you were, what was
important to you, what youwanted, and then, from there it
was like who can I include in mylife?
(51:01):
And I think that's really whatsets you apart from so many
other people that tell you thelittle tricks and I feel like
it's little tricks that you cando to find somebody.
This is find yourself, and theother person will attract to you
100%.
Ellen (51:20):
I love that message.
Okay, holly, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
We may have to have her backagain.
I'll have you back againbecause there is so much more we
could cover, but thank you forbeing with us.
We'll put everything in theshow notes and until next week,
mid-lifers.
Yes, ma'am, thank you so muchfor being with us today.