June 27, 2023 • 35 mins
Welcome to Power for Your life: On the Road, a podcast dedicated to Electric Vehicles. Join host Harrison Waters from Associated Electric Cooperative Inc. and guest Payton Oehlschlager from White River Valley Electric Cooperative Inc. as they discuss topics like EV suitability, range anxiety, home and business charging, and more. Visit membersfirst.coop for resources and follow us on social media for updates. Subscribe now for an electrifying journey into the world of EVs!
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Episode Transcript
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Harrison Waters (00:03):
How do you know if you want to buy an EV
or you should buy an ev?
Payton Oehlschlager (00:10):
It , it's just gonna require more front
end work, you know, as far asplanning goes.
Harrison Waters (00:14):
Range capacity goes up, range anxiety goes
down.
Payton Oehlschlager (00:18):
Want to think about is like what your
daily commute is.
Harrison Waters (00:25):
All right .
Well, thank you guys so muchfor joining us. I'm Harrison
Waters at Associated ElectricMember Services and you are
listening to The Power for YourLife podcast, where we focus on
, uh, member benefits andenergy efficiency. I'm here
with my man , PeytonOehlschlager. Did I nail that
one? Boom. Got it. Okay. U h, you k now, Peyton, go ahead and
tell us a little bit about yourinvolvement in the co-op a nd,
and what you do.
Payton Oehlschlager (00:45):
So, I actually work down at White
River in Branson, and I am theenergy services coordinator
down there. So handle all ofthe , uh, member facing may ,
member facing conversationsabout solar or kind of emerging
technologies like EVs , um,stuff like that. And also kind
of handle our, our rebateprogram.
Harrison Waters (01:04):
Awesome. Cool.
Uh, yeah. Well, speaking ofEVs, electric vehicles, for
those that don't use that , uh,that phrase all the time , uh,
that's the topic of discussiontoday. We've got a long list to
go through and trying to figureout , um, with the , the newer
adoption of EVs around ourarea. And , um, if, if that
makes sense for you. So rightoff the bat, how do you know,
(01:27):
how do you know if you want tobuy an EV or you should buy an
ev? Yeah.
Payton Oehlschlager (01:30):
Uh , it's a good question and it's gonna
look a little bit different foreverybody , um, because
obviously everybody'ssituation's gonna be, you know,
pretty unique. Mm-hmm.
. Um , but thefirst thing that you probably
want to think about wheneveryou're, you're looking at, if
it's, if it's a good decisionfor you, obviously, is it
financially viable? Um, cuzthat's, you know, the first
piece of every puzzle and
Harrison Waters (01:49):
They're not the cheapest cars. No,
Payton Oehlschlager (01:50):
They're not the cheapest cars. Now
there's, I mean, innovation'shappening, you know, every day
. And it seems like if you're,if you're keeping up with it
brands across, you know,automakers across the board are
, are trying to bring cost downbecause that is, I mean,
ultimately when you're talkingabout driving adoption and for
new technologies, cost goingdown is really what pushes all
(02:12):
of that forward. Um, and so newmodels are getting made and ,
and released, you know, prettyregularly trying to bring cost
down. But again, not to shyaway from it, that's, that's
probably issue number one.
Okay. Uh , but then just on apractical level , uh, something
that you're gonna wanna thinkabout is like what your daily
commute is. Um, and so ifyou're, if you're driving, I
(02:35):
think the rule of thumb is like150 miles round trip a day ,
um, then you could probablyhandle having a commuter at
least , um, ev. And so that'sthe, that's the simplest test.
Um, obviously the, the task setin front of automakers and, and
brands, you know, going forwardis how do we make, you know,
(02:57):
that one piece of the puzzle,you know, less important
really. Mm-hmm.,because that , that's kind of
an older, that's the older wayof thinking that okay, if we do
this, then, then that would fitNow, you know, you got your
Ford Lightnings and all theseother, you know, models that
are trying to increase, youknow, range and what they can
do to make it more viable foreveryday living for people that
(03:19):
live in the middle of Americaand in rural Missouri or and
rural Missouri , uh, rural ,um, America , um, to make it
viable for them to do everyday, you know, tasks drive across
the country Yeah . And not haveto be, you know, stopped and to
Harrison Waters (03:32):
Worry about it. Yeah.
Payton Oehlschlager (03:33):
Every, you know, several hours, well,
Harrison Waters (03:34):
150 miles is a pretty decent round trip for
going to work. I hope that, youknow, your 70 mile commute to
work , um, with 10 to spare ,you know, I hope it gets you
there. Which honestly, youcan't, even if you're talking
150 and you're doing a 70, Imean , you can't just rely on
down to the last mile. I'vebeen told like, there are so
(03:54):
many different factors that,that change that number. So you
can't, like on a gas tank, youhit that E light and you're
like, okay, do I have 20 milesto play with here ? Or what? I
don't know. There's obviouslythe topic of range anxiety is
out there. Maybe , uh,mentioned to our members what
range anxiety is and , uh, uh,why that's , uh, an issue with
EV owners.
Payton Oehlschlager (04:14):
Yeah, I mean, it's, it is exactly what
it sounds like it is. Um, andthat is a , that's a great
observation as far as like, notnecessarily, you know, when you
look on the dash, you'redriving an ev it's gonna tell
you what your range is left.
And there's a lot of variablesthat like, go behind that
number that, you know, it saysyou've got 250 miles, you might
(04:34):
not necessarily actually have afull two 50, or you might have
a little bit more than two 50mm-hmm.. Um, and
the thing that's interesting isthat , uh, like weather and
terrain can actually like playa pretty big role in that. Um,
and so it's, it's, I would sayit's , it's kind of a big deal
to know your vehicle, theanxiety is created, you know,
(04:54):
because of unknowns. So if youcan eliminate as many unknowns
as you can , um, you're gonnacut down on range anxiety. Um,
and so taking shorter trips,obviously if you've got an ev
you're talking to somebodythat's got an ev if you're
thinking about it and figuringout, you know, what does that
look like? Um, if I'm drivingand it's a short trip and I
(05:15):
know I'm not gonna be, youknow, in need of a charge, but
if I'm driving in thewintertime and it's, it's sub
30 degrees, what does that looklike as far as, it says that
I've got 50 miles, I know I'monly driving 10. Is that really
dropping 10 miles off my rangeor does it look more like 25?
Because, you know, obviouslythe battery's working hard. And
same thing in extreme heat. Um, and then same thing, like
(05:38):
specifically, so we've got aNissan Leaf at the co-op down
in Branson. Okay. Andobviously, you know, Branson,
we've got, you know,considerable terrain, lots of
ups and downs. And so whenyou're talking ev mileage, you
know, 50 miles left on a chargelooks a lot different. If
you're driving over straightground, you know, a flat
(05:59):
ground, then it does versus
Harrison Waters (06:00):
Rollercoaster hills.
Payton Oehlschlager (06:01):
Yeah. If you're in the Ozark mountains
and, and you're having to , um,you know, kind of give and take
with that regenerative breakingwhen you're going downhill, but
it's working tough when you'regoing
Harrison Waters (06:09):
Back, what's, what's worse on the EV is the,
the cold weather or the highheat ,
Payton Oehlschlager (06:15):
Uh, both of them tax , like tax the
batteries. Right. Um, I knowthat the technology is, is
built on both sides. Weatherstuff is like, I know Ford is
looking at, like liquid doessome stuff with like liquid
cooled bat battery packs for inthe summertime and extreme heat
and in southern Missouri whenit's gonna get really hot and
it's gonna put a lot ofpressure on those things. But I
(06:36):
know that in extreme cold, youget down subfreezing and you
gotta keep 'em warm. There'soptimal operating conditions,
so they're gonna be taxed oneextreme or the other. So, and ,
and that's one of those thingstoo that like technology,
technology is going to continueto evolve and, and the battery
tech is gonna keep gettingbetter , um, to be able to get
(06:57):
more life out of
Harrison Waters (06:58):
This . Right.
But it's not just thetemperature, it's, it's the
fact that the temperature ismaking you use your air, air
condition more, your, yourheat, your music, your, you
know what I mean? You aremaking a big difference and the
car is like showing you withthe technology, the, the
readout of how much energyyou're using. Correct . So
mm-hmm. , you ,you have the windshield wipers
on, you're using everythingthat is driving down how ma
(07:20):
your mileage, your range.
Payton Oehlschlager (07:22):
Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely. It, it , it,it sure can. And again, just a
great reason to take ,take shorter trips to begin
with to understand how your carbehaves and, and how well it
can conserve energy wheneverit's using those kind of like
auxiliary operational functionsYeah . Is whether, whether it's
music, windshield wipers,defrost, that kind of stuff
(07:43):
that you wouldn't think of, youknow, internal combustion
engine, you're not, that's notreally affecting how far you
can go that's working yourbattery, but your alternator's
going. And so understandingthat like, okay, these are all
things that need to be takeninto account. Um, and , and so
that's, and that's anotherthing that is probably just,
it's, it's kind of a change ofhabit for people honestly is,
(08:04):
is what it will probablyrequire for it . You're talking
about like eliminating rangeanxiety mm-hmm.,
there's, there's just gonna be,at least right now with the
state of, of what the tech isright now and , and where
development is currently, it'sgonna require, you know, if
you've got an EV and you wantto try to fight range anxiety,
it, it's just gonna requiremore front end work. Um, uh,
(08:25):
you know, as far as planninggoes,
Harrison Waters (08:26):
Yeah. You're gonna have to go back to the
MapQuest days, right? Yes. Yes. No longer, you're just
driving the open country. Youneed to, you need to plan it
out. You need to see where youneed to stop for a picnic
because, and I don't , I'm notmaking fun of it. I'm just
saying like, you know, you needto know if you're going to
drive several hundred miles,you're gonna need to know where
to stop and prepare for a what,30 minute stop a one hour right
(08:48):
now where we're at. I mean,yeah,
Payton Oehlschlager (08:50):
Right now you're looking, I mean, if
you're , if you're going 0%, Imean, hopefully you're not at
zero, right ? So if you go on ,like rule of thumb is like 10%
to 80% if you're at, you know,a DC fast charger, you know,
you could do that in 45minutes, 30 minutes. Um, which
is, I mean, obviously it'slonger in filling up your tank
of gas. Right? Um, but I mean,that's what you're looking at
(09:11):
right now. And so, and I willsay too, part of that is like
continually being mitigated by,by the automakers because
these, these , these , thesecars now you go out and you buy
a brand new, you know, a FordLightning or a Tesla Tesla or
something, it's gonna havebuilt in to the, the actual
(09:33):
computer system in the vehicle.
Harrison Waters (09:35):
Type your destination. Yeah . Know where
to, yeah . Yeah . It's , it's ,I'm joking in Map Quest, I just
remember those days of printingoff like all the directions and
knowing how far, but I mean,that's a real concern. Range
anxiety is something thatpeople need to understand prior
to buying a car , um, to, toknow what kind of trips that
they go on. That's one of thosechecklist items, right? You
have about saying, you know,before you purchased this, do
(09:57):
you go on a lot of long trips,you know, or is this a daily
commute? Cuz that makes adifference.
Payton Oehlschlager (10:02):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Are you, are
you wanting, are you in aposition that you can, you can
get one of these things andknow that, you know what, I'm,
I'm using this thing as acommuter and I'm getting to
work in it and we've got, we'vegot an SUV at the house that if
we're driving across thecountry or something , um, see
family, whatever it be , um,that we've got that in our back
pocket now, eventually verywell could be that, you know ,
(10:25):
range increases enough and thecharging infrastructure
increases , um, and, you know,it doesn't take as long to
charge. Right . And so EVs canhandle all that stuff too, but
just as it stands right now,something you gotta consider,
range
Harrison Waters (10:37):
Capacity goes up, range anxiety goes down.
Mm-hmm. go alittle bit further, be able to
take those trips or maybeswitch over. So, but you've
got, so you've got ICUs,internal combustion engines,
you've got electric vehicles.
Tell me about what about thatsweet spot in the middle
hybrids? Is that a viableoption? Should people consider
those?
Payton Oehlschlager (10:57):
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean,
personally of all of , of allof the options that are out
there, I, I really likehybrids. Um, and you've got,
you've got two different types.
You've got your liketraditional hybrid that's gonna
be, it's a , it's an internalcombustion. It's a gas engine,
and that's what's powering thecar. And then there's also an
electric motor in there , um,that is being charged off of
(11:20):
like ba uh , brakeregeneration. Um, so like
whenever you're applying thebrakes, it's actually
recharging that battery and soyou don't plug it in or
anything. Um , and it's runningoff of gas, but that electric
motor is helping your fuelefficiency like greatly. Um,
and then you've got the, the ,the newer style of, of hybrid,
which is the, the plug-inhybrid. And that those models
(11:45):
actually allow for full EVranges. So they'll operate like
a true fully electric vehicle,but
Harrison Waters (11:52):
Also still have the backup .
Payton Oehlschlager (11:54):
Yes. They , they still got the, still got
the , uh, internal combustionengine. So if you want to take
a trip across the country andyou , and you don't wanna mess
with having range anxiety, youcan do that where if you're, if
you're gonna piddle around townor something, or if you're
commute, if you're driving, ifyou're driving eight minutes to
work, you know, these plug-inhybrids have, you know, all EV
(12:16):
ranges. It's, I think it's, Ithink it's like usually 20
miles to around like 50 miles Ithink is about the furthest ,
um, full EV range Okay . Ofthe, of the plug-ins right now.
And I would, I mean , I wouldhave to guess that's gonna just
continue to go up.
Harrison Waters (12:29):
So it is a perfect in the middle can work
for that , um, you know, canget your daily commute done,
but also have the , uh, safetyblanket of , uh, of an engine
if needed, if you go on longertrips. Um, so something to
consider, it sounds like doingyour research is important ,
um, when it comes to purchasinga vehicle , um, utilizing , um,
you know, there's a toolkit outthere that a lot of the
(12:50):
cooperative , uh, websites havethat showcase and can help you
determine if it's the right fitfor you. So, you know, we've
discussed the importance of, of, uh, range and how far
affordability , um, and theseare continuing to grow and then
now it's hybrid. It's thatperfect in between . So it
could be the best one to jumpinto first if you're not ready
(13:11):
to go full into , uh, a , uh,ev
Payton Oehlschlager (13:13):
Yeah, absolutely. A great
introduction into kind of theEV world and learning how the
car operates without, you know, fully diving both feet in off
the deep end and, and, andimmersing yourself in that it
still allows that security and,you know, gets you used to the
new tech.
Harrison Waters (13:32):
Well, let me ask you this, and I , this
could be something you're notaware of. Um, have you operated
in a hybrid vehicle?
Payton Oehlschlager (13:37):
Yeah, so my wife, my , so my wife
actually drives, it's just atraditional high hybrid. It's
not a plugin. Okay . Um , butshe, she drives a , a hybrid.
Harrison Waters (13:45):
Now, if anyone out there hasn't tried to drive
an electric vehicle before orhad , you know, if you're
familiar with a battery poweredgolf cart or something, it , it
has a totally different feel.
Um , the way an EV drivesversus a car is , is totally
different. Does it feel thatway? Can you feel when it
switches over, can , does itfeel like an EV and then all of
a sudden it goes back to theengine? And do
Payton Oehlschlager (14:05):
You , so when it's, when it's operating,
if , if you've got it set towhere you're operating in like
a traditional hybrid mode, youcan kind of feel it just in
that, like if it's a fourcylinder engine internal
combustion engine , it'sprobably not gonna have a whole
lot of pep getting off theline. Um, but if you've got a
hybrid that that electric motoris gonna help get it going.
(14:27):
Yeah . And so your , theresponse time's gonna be a
little bit different. Andthat's really the only, and ,
and it's usually they're alittle bit smoother. So for
our, for our hybridspecifically, it, they're ,
it's , it's an electrictransmission and so there's no,
there's like no RPMs, it's notmeasured in RPMs. It's instead
of, you know, getting up to, to4,000 RPMs and shifting and you
(14:50):
feel it, you feel the RPMsdrop. Okay . And you feel the
engine change. Yeah. Um, thatdoesn't happen in, in, you
know, a traditional hybrid.
It's all just smooth cuz thattransmission is engineered in a
completely different way.
Interesting. Um, so that'sdifferent now. And , and that's
gonna be how it is in an actualplug-in hybrid too. If you
don't have it in EV only mode,if you've got it , if you have
(15:12):
it in EV only mode, it's gonnaoperate like an ev it's gonna
have instant torque, all ofthat stuff. All the stuff you
hear, it's all the stuff youhear on, on EV commercials
whenever if , if you see acommercial for the new, you
know, the new Ford Mustang orthe new , uh, or the new
Lightning or , or Tesla orwhatever that they're talking
about all the, you know, it's,it's zero to 60 times crazy.
Harrison Waters (15:33):
Yeah. It has some jump It is definitely
giddy, giddy
Payton Oehlschlager (15:35):
Up . Yes.
It's gonna have all it's gonnarun that way. Um, it's just
obviously it's gonna be ashorter
Harrison Waters (15:41):
Distance.
Yeah. I wonder if all hybridshave the option to , um, to
switch it between EV only. Dothey have all the, can you tell
it what to do? I'm sure thetech is there for all hybrids,
but I'm not aware.
Payton Oehlschlager (15:53):
Yeah, well just if it's , if it's a plugin
hybrid, then you can, if it'straditional, it's gonna , it's
it's gonna ,
Harrison Waters (15:59):
It's what it is all time . Okay . I gotcha .
Yeah. And so, you know, that ,um, leads me into, you've made
the purchase, right? So you,you , you check the boxes,
decide this is the best fit foryou. Um, now it , it's like
getting this thing home. Okay .
It's totally different worldbecause before you were relying
on a gas station, now you'rehome and you're like, okay,
I've gotta plug this in everynight. You've got , um,
(16:21):
electrical work because the,the , um, ev actually requires
some pretty decent charging. Somaybe tell me, let's dive into
like you're, you're pulling thedriveway, you're super excited,
you know , um, you gotta yougotta charge this thing. What
does that look like? And thenalso you gotta , how does it
charge You just plug itstraight into a regular outlet.
Of course you maybe differentpower demands there. Yeah,
Payton Oehlschlage (16:41):
Absolutely.
So always great. Uh , firstthings first is get in touch
with your co-op. Um, because ifyou're, if you're looking at
home charging, you , you cancharge, they've got, you know,
you've got level one, level twoand level three chargers and
level one is just plugging itstraight into 120 volt outlet
(17:01):
and it's gonna take you like 24hours to get a full charge. I
don't think that that is reallygetting used , um, really by
hardly anybody. Cuz it's justreally not practical. Like if
you're, if you're gonna get anev you're not gonna wait 24
hours to fill it up to charge.
Right. Um , and so what'swhat's most common is putting
some kind of, of level two orlike mid-range charging system
(17:25):
in, in your home. So like inyour garage, outside your
garage, something like that.
And those level two systems,it's gonna be, you can either
plug 'em in into a 240 voltoutlet, so like what you plug a
dryer into. Okay. Um, or , uh,I feel like most, a lot of
people just, just get themwired in , um, directly to
their garage. And that'ssomething that you'd want to ,
(17:46):
obviously you'd want like a ,like a certified electrician or
, or , or professional engineerto do. Um , just so that it's
so that it's done right. Butthat's the amount of load that
it's, that it's requiring. Andso that will charge your, your
ev in, you know, four hoursuhhuh a full, full charge. And
so that is much more practicalwhen you're talking about like
coming home from work, pluggingit in. And a lot of these
(18:08):
chargers are smart and you canactually, and and what what I
tell people whenever they , ifthey ask me about it is you
can, you can set times that youwant it to charge. So like you
, you , you probably don'twanna necessarily have it start
charging right when you get in,get know, get in from work, but
you can plug it in, program it,and it will, then it'll kick on
at like 11:00 PM or something.
(18:29):
Yeah . And then that way it'sdone and ready to go by 5:00 AM
the next morning. Um, but youstill get a full charge.
Harrison Waters (18:36):
Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So definitely
what I heard there is , uh,check with , uh, qualified
electrician talk with yourcooperative in regards to , uh,
getting this, if you're gonnaget it wired into your, your
panel, making sure that youhave enough bandwidth there to
cover the power demand for ,especially if you get, if you
get two of 'em and you're , youknow, cuz a lot of car , you
know, households have two cars,so
Payton Oehlschlager (18:56):
Yes, absolutely. And excuse me , um,
very important, especially whenwe're talking about like
obviously our members, it'srural, rural Missouri. Right?
And so if you , if you, ifyou're living on a farm and
you're down towards the end ofthe line and there's maybe not
a ton of capacity on that line,so there's not meaning there's
not a ton of, there's not a tonof power flowing on that line
(19:18):
anyway. Maybe the transformerat your house, your service,
your , the , the poweravailable at your home isn't
necessarily like just a ton ofa ton of energy at your home
available to you. And so youstart adding, you add in, you
wire in one home charger andthen, you know, you wire in a
second home charger that couldpotentially tap out the
(19:39):
transformer at your home. Andso that's why it's very
important to like keep yourco-op in the loop throughout
the process so that if you doneed a transformer upgrade and
you need to go from 200 ampservice to a 400 amp service
mm-hmm . , theycan make sure that that happens
beforehand instead of , youknow, blowing a transformer.
Right . Or, or , or doing orcausing something to, to , to ,
(20:01):
to malfunction. Um, and that ,cuz that's, that's no fun for,
that's no fun for anybody.
Right . It's no fun for us. Nofun
Harrison Waters (20:06):
For them .
Well, and it's, no, it'scertainly like not fun. It ,
it's great to , uh, avoid goingto the pump. Right? That's what
you're doing. You'reeliminating going to a gas
station, but now you're tellingme if you get two of these,
you're looking at maybe the ,um, the low demand of, of two
drying your dryers. Um, so ifyou're running your dryer also
now you've got three of thosegoing at once, that's a pretty
(20:27):
decent amount of power beingpulled hopefully in your HVAC
could be running . I meanthat's, you're, you're going
to, you're gonna see it on yourelectric bill mm-hmm.
because you'renot paying at the pump. Um,
maybe this is a great seguestraight into the difference
between kilowatt versus, youknow, fuel, you know, prices.
How do they determine that? Howdo you know , um, obviously
(20:48):
with the, the fuel prices, thevolatility of the price
changing all the time, how canyou do that equation?
Payton Oehlschlager (20:55):
Honestly that that's, that's all that it
is. It's, it's, it's justrunning the numbers. So it's,
it's determining how far youcan get on a tank of gas, how
many, how many miles that getsyou. Okay. And then you're
taking the , the cost of thatgas, dividing it by that
mileage. And that's, that's howmuch it costs you if in gas to
get that far. And then you'redoing the same thing for an ev.
(21:18):
So if you've got a 300 milerange and you're ev if you're
charging it at home, you'retaking that, that the rate that
you're paying for that electricmm-hmm. and you
are then comparing thosenumbers. It's, it's really ,
it's just an , it's just anequation. It's like
Harrison Waters (21:31):
Yeah. It's just a But that equation is out
there, right? That's on yourwebsite. Can you go to your
website? Is that part of thattoolkit ? The choose EV toolkit
?
Payton Oehlschlager (21:37):
Yes. Yeah.
If you pull up choosey , ev andI think pretty much every co-op
in the state , um, has that ontheir website. Yeah.
Harrison Waters (21:45):
The majority are using that. So go to your
co-OP's website for it.
Payton Oehlschlager (21:49):
Yeah. And, and so it'll, it'll show you
what you'll save and what thedifference would be. And it ,
and I think it gets as granularas like looking at different
models of EVs mm-hmm.
and then figuringout what it would cost you.
Right . And , and you can putin all those
Harrison Waters (22:02):
And in your current car too. Yes. Your car
, you can put in your currentcar, what the ev you're looking
at it , it starts to do all themath for you. Um, it'll, it'll
answer this, you know, ifyou're into, you know, that
equation, making sure thatyou're gonna be covered.
Because once again, you do haveto look at the fact that you
are , uh, avoiding the pump. Um, but you'll also have to , um,
consider how much you're addingto your electric bill due to
(22:24):
the fact that you're , um, youknow, putting that load , uh,
in demand of, of power need atyour home. Mm-hmm.
. So I thinkthat's, that's something, check
that one off the list. Yeah .
If you gotta, you've gotta doall of these before just
jumping into it, you know, ofcourse. You know, gotta look
affordability. You've gottalook at is it a viable option
for your commute and yourvacations and the travel you do
(22:45):
now. You gotta look at , um,support at your home for the
actual charging of this. Mm-hmm. the
infrastructure, I guess. Yeah.
Perfect. Okay. Well let's jumpover to possibly the business
side of things or looking atsome of the different chargers
out there. You know, you'vementioned one, it sounds like
level one is nearly obsolete atthis point. Yeah . And we're ,
(23:07):
we're , all I hear is level twoversus level three chargers. Um
, you maybe break that down.
Elaborate on what makes sensehere when you would use a level
three charger. Yeah,
Payton Oehlschlager (23:17):
So the level the , the difference in
the Chargers themselves islevel two is gonna get you from
zero to 80% in like two to fourhours typically. And then your
level three , um, that's gonnaget you from zero to 80% in ,
you know, 40 minutes to anhour. So it's almost
Harrison Waters (23:33):
Half the time.
Payton Oehlschlager (23:34):
Yeah. It's , it's , it's pretty close. And
so functionally that's, that'sthe difference from our
member's perspective. From ourperspective, it's a massive
difference in the actual powerrequired to run those different
types of stations. Um, and sothe level two that's gonna ,
that's kind of like mid-levelpower, like we said, it's, it's
something like, you know, theresidential ones are drier . Um
(23:55):
, the commercial ones thatyou'll find publicly are they
gonna , are , they're gonnadraw more than that, but still
a level two nonetheless. Um,and so something that is always
important, I feel like that I ,when I'm , when I'm talking to
members about this that they'reconsidering is like, okay, when
is it a good idea? Like when doI need to be looking for one
charger or the other mm-hmm.
(24:16):
. And I feel likethe most simple way to think
about this is a level, levelthree charging or d CFC
charging , um, depending on, on, on, you know, what you're
looking at or whatever it ,it'll be referred to as , as
both. Um, that type ofcharging, that fast charging
really should be a a a lastresort, you know, for our
(24:37):
members. Okay . If, if they, ifthey're in a bind, if they're
in a pension, that's the onlything that's available. Um,
obviously use it better than,better than running out. Um,
but the tradeoff there isyou're gonna pay a premium. So
those, those fast chargers arealmost always going to be more
(24:59):
expensive mm-hmm .
to actuallycharge your vehicle than public
level two charging. But thendefinitely more expensive than
at-home level two charging. Soreally if, if you can help it,
and I think the number issomething like 80%, if , if
you've got an ev you're , youshould expect to do about 80%
of your charging at home onyour home charger. And there ,
(25:21):
there's obviously, there's acouple different things that
play into that. It's, it's moreconvenient cuz it's at home ,
you know, you're getting home,you're not going anywhere over
the over, you know, overnight.
So you can just let it chargeand then you can use it the
next day. Um , but the secondpart of that is it's, it's
just, it's less expensive. Um,you're, you're getting power
directly from the source.
You're paying, you know whatyou're paying in electric, you
(25:42):
know what the rate is for yourhome. That's what you're paying
whenever you're charging athome. Mm-hmm.,
that rate is not what you'repaying if you're going to a , a
publicly available charger andyou're paying, you know, you
gotta think that you'reprobably paying for the
electric that you're, you'regetting plus, you know, the ,
the overhead of whoeveractually owns that station
(26:04):
right . On top of that. So thelikelihood of it actually being
, um, as cheap as, as
Harrison Waters (26:08):
They're gonna make some money for putting in
the charger for you to make itconvenient, similar to a gas
station. Yeah .
Payton Oehlschlager (26:13):
Which only , I mean, it only makes sense.
Yeah. Um , but it's justsomething that, I mean, it's
still new, so like you mightnot actually like think about
that part of it.
Harrison Waters (26:20):
Yeah. What , um, that's, that's good to
know. And so yeah, it soundslike you gotta take that, you
know, start with your at homelevel two, then look for level
twos if you're out there, butyou're gonna pay some more and
possibly level threes if you'rein a pinch and mm-hmm .
, you know, youmight not be utilizing a
charger to, to do a fullcharge. You might just be using
it to make sure you have enoughto get back home and
Payton Oehlschlager (26:39):
Yes.
Absolutely. And, and I mean, Ifeel like this is a good like
rolling right into, I, I feellike I, I have a lot of
conversations with, withbusiness owners about this
because it's new technology and, and , and people that wanna
see, you know, be seen as, youknow, being on, on the front of
the curve and not the back ofthe curve mm-hmm.
, um, are looking at, you know,hey, I'm interested in, in
(27:04):
putting, in charging , um, at ,at my business. Like I , I'm ,
I'm seeing all thesecommercials, EVs are coming,
everybody says EVs are comingget on the wave. Yes. And I , I
want to be ready to go. And I ,it's , it's admirable that they
are, you know, trying to getahead of it and, and figuring
out how to , how to positionthemselves. Well and I , I
think that one of the mostimportant things you can do in
that situation, which is great,reach out to your co-op, see,
(27:27):
alright , what , what does thisprocess look like? Mm-hmm.
. Um, and thensomething else that's good is
like determining what wouldactually fit your business
well. Um, because obviously ifyou're, if you're listening to
commercials, you're, you'relistening to the, if you're on
a , a government webinar orsomething and they're talking
about the need for, for fastchargers all over the place, we
need more fast charging, weneed more fast charging. That's
(27:49):
true. But it may not actuallybe beneficial for your
business. Mm-hmm .
and , and how youare structured. If you are, you
know, if you're on I 44 and youknow, you've got a ton of, of
through traffic that they'restopping and they're filling up
and they're leaving could makea lot of sense, then maybe it
makes sense. Yeah. But ifyou're not on a corridor like
(28:13):
that, and let's say , uh, youknow, you're a shopping center
or something, or a restaurantand your customers are coming
in, they're parking, they'regonna hang out for a while ,
then I , I would venture to saythat a level three is not
necessarily the right, right.
Choice one, they're, they'refar more expensive than level
twos. Mm-hmm .just the Chargers themselves.
And then two, they are, they'refar more expensive in
(28:36):
infrastructure costs . So likeyou're talking, you know,
potential lineup upgrades and ,and just a , a ton of
infrastructure work that is notusually required for a level
two charger. Right. And if youthink about it, is it really
that bad of a thing to haveyour customers coming in and
plugging in their car for twohours while they, while they
(28:57):
get something that while theyget something to eat while they
walk around, go shop while theyhonestly a great fit. And
specifically, you know, down inBranson, got a lot of resorts
Oh , okay. Yeah. Lodgingresorts, something with that
phenomenal parking , phenomenaloption pay for it . Right .
For, for level two chargingbecause Right . If it , you
know, people that have EVs,they're looking up, Hey, where
can I stay that I can get acharge? Right. And so that
(29:20):
immediately puts you in thatbucket. And then again, just a
great fit for, they're comingin, they're done, they're done
with their vacation day orwhatever it is. Mm-hmm.
, they can plug inat night. You don't have to
spend the extra overhead to doa level three charger and
they're getting all thefunctionality that they need.
And it's, it's , it's a win-winfor everybody . Yeah. So it's,
do your homework. You
Harrison Waters (29:40):
Know, our cooperative , uh, service
territory for Associateelectric includes, you know, 51
distribution systems . So a lotof them are that rural , um,
footprint. And so not all ofthem have , uh, maybe a Branson
around the corner mm-hmm .
that has plentyof different , um, you know,
lodging or, or attract , uh,traction entertainment stay. So
places where people are gonnastop for an hour no matter
(30:02):
what. Yep . Same thing. Um , soyou have to keep that in mind
to , you know, cause I know,like I said, you , you want the
business to make the rightdecision. Um, the common theme
here I have heard is reach outto your local electric
cooperative because they, theyhave people like Peyton, they
have people that can answerthese questions and they get a
lot of them . Um, there'sanother one that's been coming
up , uh, uh, I think a lotlately that you've heard of is
(30:24):
, are these 19 kilowattchargers? And that might be
kind of early on that, but whoknows have a year from now how
many more adoption of that? CuzI'm sure the level two three,
there's gonna keep growing. Sohave you heard a lot of those
discussions about these
Payton Oehlschlager (30:39):
Chargers ?
Yeah, they're definitelygaining traction and to get in
, I mean, not to get intoutility speak , but 19, no,
don't Exactly 19 kw. So allthat means is that it's a lot
of power. So that's, it's stilltechnically a level two
charger. Okay. So it's stilltechnically a mid range
charger, but it's pulling downclose to 80 amps of power ,
Harrison Waters (31:03):
Um, for like a home. And you're talking
residential,
Payton Oehlschlager (31:05):
So you technically could put it in a
home. I haven't really seenthat where I've seen these or
it , it is a business case. Solike it would be a restaurant
or something and they'rewanting to put a level two
charger because there is stillless infrastructure involvement
and they're still cheaper thanlevel threes. But that is where
you're closer to a 0% to a ,uh, 80% charge. Mm-hmm .
(31:29):
, you're closerto two hours at that point, two
, two and a half hours insteadof your, you know, the longer
four hour time period. So ifyou're wanting to have that be
an option, these level , uh,these level two 19 KW chargers,
they're kind of, they're kindof picking up a little bit of
traction in that regard. Sowhat I would say to that, I
don't think that they're ,they're not gonna slow down cuz
they're, they do fit a goodlittle segment of the market
(31:52):
that is, yeah . It's fasterthan a , a slow level two, but
it's cheaper than a levelthree. Um, so the biggest thing
for that is you absolutely aregonna want to talk to your
co-op because the likelihood ofa required service upgrade, if
you're at that kind of of power, um, you know, to your, your
current load mm-hmm.
, um, very, verylikely that you're gonna need
(32:13):
to , uh, to have some kind ofupgrade. Yeah . So you're gonna
want to get them involved earlyso that you don't end up with
some, some , some bad news andfind out you've got , yeah.
You've got power issues goingforward.
Harrison Waters (32:24):
Well, and this might be new now and who knows
if you were listening to thissix months down the road or a
year, it could be far morecommon mm-hmm .
and who knows what, you know,when it comes to EV adoption,
we're still, you know, we're inthe early days here. I know,
you know, EVs, I don't know howlong they've been around. We
can maybe throw that up on ascreen and throw out the date.
Cuz I'm not sure of that. Youknow, you're the SME in this.
I'm just the average Joe. But,you know, really, when it all
(32:46):
is said and done, we're in thevery early states of all this
and you just, you want get it .
If you wanna get on board ,just make sure you can cross
off a lot of this. Um, yeah .
I'll say from AssociatedElectric standpoint in regards
to , um, the grid, I know thatthat is something that mass ,
uh, electric vehicle adoptionis going to take some time for
(33:06):
, um, the building of newinfrastructure for the grid to
be , um, to understand, youknow , this additional load,
right? Yeah . Mm-hmm.
. So it, it'sgonna take some time, but you
know, it's, it's a slow climb.
Like they're not all coming onat once and we're not, not
everybody is running out andgetting an EV today, but the
numbers continue to grow. Andso I think that's something
(33:27):
that needs to be continuallymonitored. I'm sure the
cooperatives are doing that,especially at the generation
and transmission levels aswell. So , uh, um, you know, I
think that , uh, we'll seewhere it all ends up. Right.
Yeah,
Payton Oehlschlage (33:39):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's exciting times to,it's exciting times to be in
the industry. It's excitingtimes just for the American
population at large justbecause there's so much change
going on all the time and , andthere is so much development
going on , um, in , in theelectric industry, in the grid
, um, you know, as a whole. Um, so yes, there's tons of data
(33:59):
getting collected , um, fromthe EVs that are on the road
now so that , that we can, youknow, prepare for the , the
path ahead in the , in thefuture that is, is laying out
there in front of us so thateverybody can be in a good
position, you know mm-hmm .
whenever thatadoption , um, you know,
catches up a little bit.
Harrison Waters (34:14):
Well, and it , it seemed like just a few years
ago it was like , uh, there waslike , uh, Teslas and a couple
other options and every year itseems like another car
manufacturer has come on boardto, to meet that , um,
requirement to be all , uh,electric at some point. And so
we'll see what that looks likein the future. But I know that
this has been helpful becauseI'm learning a lot just kind of
(34:36):
going through the topics thatit sounds like our cooperatives
are getting all the time. Um,these are pretty much the most
common , uh, questions that ,uh, that Peyton's hearing
mm-hmm . and ,uh, that , uh, we can, we can
start to get out in front of,and like he , like he was
mentioning, keep in mind thatyou need to go through a
checklist to determine if it'sright for you. Right. Determine
that and absolutely. Uh , geton your cooperatives , um,
(35:00):
website and look for thatChoose EV toolkit that they're
gonna have on there and lookfor that page. And they've got
some great information there toreally help with that and also
reach out to them and , um, tolearn if it's the right fit for
you. Anything else you need toadd? Peyton? Does , did I hit
Payton Oehlschlager (35:14):
It? Yeah, nailed it. Okay . Just happy to
this super fun day. Well,
Harrison Waters (35:17):
Thank you so much for , uh, joining us. This
was Peyton, I'm Harrison, and ,uh, you're listening to Power
for Your Life Podcast , uh,electric vehicles. We're , uh,
we're happy to have you be sureto go to Members first , uh,
website to learn more aboutthis and other topics on the
benefits of being a cooperativemember and energy efficiency.
And that's all for now. Thanksfor joining.
How do you know if you want to buy an EV
or you should buy an ev?
Payton Oehlschlager (00:10):
It , it's just gonna require more front
end work, you know, as far asplanning goes.
Harrison Waters (00:14):
Range capacity goes up, range anxiety goes
down.
Payton Oehlschlager (00:18):
Want to think about is like what your
daily commute is.
Harrison Waters (00:25):
All right .
Well, thank you guys so muchfor joining us. I'm Harrison
Waters at Associated ElectricMember Services and you are
listening to The Power for YourLife podcast, where we focus on
, uh, member benefits andenergy efficiency. I'm here
with my man , PeytonOehlschlager. Did I nail that
one? Boom. Got it. Okay. U h, you k now, Peyton, go ahead and
tell us a little bit about yourinvolvement in the co-op a nd,
and what you do.
Payton Oehlschlager (00:45):
So, I actually work down at White
River in Branson, and I am theenergy services coordinator
down there. So handle all ofthe , uh, member facing may ,
member facing conversationsabout solar or kind of emerging
technologies like EVs , um,stuff like that. And also kind
of handle our, our rebateprogram.
Harrison Waters (01:04):
Awesome. Cool.
Uh, yeah. Well, speaking ofEVs, electric vehicles, for
those that don't use that , uh,that phrase all the time , uh,
that's the topic of discussiontoday. We've got a long list to
go through and trying to figureout , um, with the , the newer
adoption of EVs around ourarea. And , um, if, if that
makes sense for you. So rightoff the bat, how do you know,
(01:27):
how do you know if you want tobuy an EV or you should buy an
ev? Yeah.
Payton Oehlschlager (01:30):
Uh , it's a good question and it's gonna
look a little bit different foreverybody , um, because
obviously everybody'ssituation's gonna be, you know,
pretty unique. Mm-hmm.
want to think about wheneveryou're, you're looking at, if
it's, if it's a good decisionfor you, obviously, is it
financially viable? Um, cuzthat's, you know, the first
piece of every puzzle and
Harrison Waters (01:49):
They're not the cheapest cars. No,
Payton Oehlschlager (01:50):
They're not the cheapest cars. Now
there's, I mean, innovation'shappening, you know, every day
. And it seems like if you're,if you're keeping up with it
brands across, you know,automakers across the board are
, are trying to bring cost downbecause that is, I mean,
ultimately when you're talkingabout driving adoption and for
new technologies, cost goingdown is really what pushes all
(02:12):
of that forward. Um, and so newmodels are getting made and ,
and released, you know, prettyregularly trying to bring cost
down. But again, not to shyaway from it, that's, that's
probably issue number one.
Okay. Uh , but then just on apractical level , uh, something
that you're gonna wanna thinkabout is like what your daily
commute is. Um, and so ifyou're, if you're driving, I
(02:35):
think the rule of thumb is like150 miles round trip a day ,
um, then you could probablyhandle having a commuter at
least , um, ev. And so that'sthe, that's the simplest test.
Um, obviously the, the task setin front of automakers and, and
brands, you know, going forwardis how do we make, you know,
(02:57):
that one piece of the puzzle,you know, less important
really. Mm-hmm.
an older, that's the older wayof thinking that okay, if we do
this, then, then that would fitNow, you know, you got your
Ford Lightnings and all theseother, you know, models that
are trying to increase, youknow, range and what they can
do to make it more viable foreveryday living for people that
(03:19):
live in the middle of Americaand in rural Missouri or and
rural Missouri , uh, rural ,um, America , um, to make it
viable for them to do everyday, you know, tasks drive across
the country Yeah . And not haveto be, you know, stopped and to
Harrison Waters (03:32):
Worry about it. Yeah.
Payton Oehlschlager (03:33):
Every, you know, several hours, well,
Harrison Waters (03:34):
150 miles is a pretty decent round trip for
going to work. I hope that, youknow, your 70 mile commute to
work , um, with 10 to spare ,you know, I hope it gets you
there. Which honestly, youcan't, even if you're talking
150 and you're doing a 70, Imean , you can't just rely on
down to the last mile. I'vebeen told like, there are so
(03:54):
many different factors that,that change that number. So you
can't, like on a gas tank, youhit that E light and you're
like, okay, do I have 20 milesto play with here ? Or what? I
don't know. There's obviouslythe topic of range anxiety is
out there. Maybe , uh,mentioned to our members what
range anxiety is and , uh, uh,why that's , uh, an issue with
EV owners.
Payton Oehlschlager (04:14):
Yeah, I mean, it's, it is exactly what
it sounds like it is. Um, andthat is a , that's a great
observation as far as like, notnecessarily, you know, when you
look on the dash, you'redriving an ev it's gonna tell
you what your range is left.
And there's a lot of variablesthat like, go behind that
number that, you know, it saysyou've got 250 miles, you might
(04:34):
not necessarily actually have afull two 50, or you might have
a little bit more than two 50mm-hmm.
the thing that's interesting isthat , uh, like weather and
terrain can actually like playa pretty big role in that. Um,
and so it's, it's, I would sayit's , it's kind of a big deal
to know your vehicle, theanxiety is created, you know,
(04:54):
because of unknowns. So if youcan eliminate as many unknowns
as you can , um, you're gonnacut down on range anxiety. Um,
and so taking shorter trips,obviously if you've got an ev
you're talking to somebodythat's got an ev if you're
thinking about it and figuringout, you know, what does that
look like? Um, if I'm drivingand it's a short trip and I
(05:15):
know I'm not gonna be, youknow, in need of a charge, but
if I'm driving in thewintertime and it's, it's sub
30 degrees, what does that looklike as far as, it says that
I've got 50 miles, I know I'monly driving 10. Is that really
dropping 10 miles off my rangeor does it look more like 25?
Because, you know, obviouslythe battery's working hard. And
same thing in extreme heat. Um, and then same thing, like
(05:38):
specifically, so we've got aNissan Leaf at the co-op down
in Branson. Okay. Andobviously, you know, Branson,
we've got, you know,considerable terrain, lots of
ups and downs. And so whenyou're talking ev mileage, you
know, 50 miles left on a chargelooks a lot different. If
you're driving over straightground, you know, a flat
(05:59):
ground, then it does versus
Harrison Waters (06:00):
Rollercoaster hills.
Payton Oehlschlager (06:01):
Yeah. If you're in the Ozark mountains
and, and you're having to , um,you know, kind of give and take
with that regenerative breakingwhen you're going downhill, but
it's working tough when you'regoing
Harrison Waters (06:09):
Back, what's, what's worse on the EV is the,
the cold weather or the highheat ,
Payton Oehlschlager (06:15):
Uh, both of them tax , like tax the
batteries. Right. Um, I knowthat the technology is, is
built on both sides. Weatherstuff is like, I know Ford is
looking at, like liquid doessome stuff with like liquid
cooled bat battery packs for inthe summertime and extreme heat
and in southern Missouri whenit's gonna get really hot and
it's gonna put a lot ofpressure on those things. But I
(06:36):
know that in extreme cold, youget down subfreezing and you
gotta keep 'em warm. There'soptimal operating conditions,
so they're gonna be taxed oneextreme or the other. So, and ,
and that's one of those thingstoo that like technology,
technology is going to continueto evolve and, and the battery
tech is gonna keep gettingbetter , um, to be able to get
(06:57):
more life out of
Harrison Waters (06:58):
This . Right.
But it's not just thetemperature, it's, it's the
fact that the temperature ismaking you use your air, air
condition more, your, yourheat, your music, your, you
know what I mean? You aremaking a big difference and the
car is like showing you withthe technology, the, the
readout of how much energyyou're using. Correct . So
mm-hmm.
on, you're using everythingthat is driving down how ma
(07:20):
your mileage, your range.
Payton Oehlschlager (07:22):
Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely. It, it , it,it sure can. And again, just a
great reason to
with to understand how your carbehaves and, and how well it
can conserve energy wheneverit's using those kind of like
auxiliary operational functionsYeah . Is whether, whether it's
music, windshield wipers,defrost, that kind of stuff
(07:43):
that you wouldn't think of, youknow, internal combustion
engine, you're not, that's notreally affecting how far you
can go that's working yourbattery, but your alternator's
going. And so understandingthat like, okay, these are all
things that need to be takeninto account. Um, and , and so
that's, and that's anotherthing that is probably just,
it's, it's kind of a change ofhabit for people honestly is,
(08:04):
is what it will probablyrequire for it . You're talking
about like eliminating rangeanxiety mm-hmm.
there's, there's just gonna be,at least right now with the
state of, of what the tech isright now and , and where
development is currently, it'sgonna require, you know, if
you've got an EV and you wantto try to fight range anxiety,
it, it's just gonna requiremore front end work. Um, uh,
(08:25):
you know, as far as planninggoes,
Harrison Waters (08:26):
Yeah. You're gonna have to go back to the
MapQuest days, right? Yes. Yes. No longer, you're just
driving the open country. Youneed to, you need to plan it
out. You need to see where youneed to stop for a picnic
because, and I don't , I'm notmaking fun of it. I'm just
saying like, you know, you needto know if you're going to
drive several hundred miles,you're gonna need to know where
to stop and prepare for a what,30 minute stop a one hour right
(08:48):
now where we're at. I mean,yeah,
Payton Oehlschlager (08:50):
Right now you're looking, I mean, if
you're , if you're going 0%, Imean, hopefully you're not at
zero, right ? So if you go on ,like rule of thumb is like 10%
to 80% if you're at, you know,a DC fast charger, you know,
you could do that in 45minutes, 30 minutes. Um, which
is, I mean, obviously it'slonger in filling up your tank
of gas. Right? Um, but I mean,that's what you're looking at
(09:11):
right now. And so, and I willsay too, part of that is like
continually being mitigated by,by the automakers because
these, these , these , thesecars now you go out and you buy
a brand new, you know, a FordLightning or a Tesla Tesla or
something, it's gonna havebuilt in to the, the actual
(09:33):
computer system in the vehicle.
Harrison Waters (09:35):
Type your destination. Yeah . Know where
to, yeah . Yeah . It's , it's ,I'm joking in Map Quest, I just
remember those days of printingoff like all the directions and
knowing how far, but I mean,that's a real concern. Range
anxiety is something thatpeople need to understand prior
to buying a car , um, to, toknow what kind of trips that
they go on. That's one of thosechecklist items, right? You
have about saying, you know,before you purchased this, do
(09:57):
you go on a lot of long trips,you know, or is this a daily
commute? Cuz that makes adifference.
Payton Oehlschlager (10:02):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Are you, are
you wanting, are you in aposition that you can, you can
get one of these things andknow that, you know what, I'm,
I'm using this thing as acommuter and I'm getting to
work in it and we've got, we'vegot an SUV at the house that if
we're driving across thecountry or something , um, see
family, whatever it be , um,that we've got that in our back
pocket now, eventually verywell could be that, you know ,
(10:25):
range increases enough and thecharging infrastructure
increases , um, and, you know,it doesn't take as long to
charge. Right . And so EVs canhandle all that stuff too, but
just as it stands right now,something you gotta consider,
range
Harrison Waters (10:37):
Capacity goes up, range anxiety goes down.
Mm-hmm.
take those trips or maybeswitch over. So, but you've
got, so you've got ICUs,internal combustion engines,
you've got electric vehicles.
Tell me about what about thatsweet spot in the middle
hybrids? Is that a viableoption? Should people consider
those?
Payton Oehlschlager (10:57):
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean,
personally of all of , of allof the options that are out
there, I, I really likehybrids. Um, and you've got,
you've got two different types.
You've got your liketraditional hybrid that's gonna
be, it's a , it's an internalcombustion. It's a gas engine,
and that's what's powering thecar. And then there's also an
electric motor in there , um,that is being charged off of
(11:20):
like ba uh , brakeregeneration. Um, so like
whenever you're applying thebrakes, it's actually
recharging that battery and soyou don't plug it in or
anything. Um , and it's runningoff of gas, but that electric
motor is helping your fuelefficiency like greatly. Um,
and then you've got the, the ,the newer style of, of hybrid,
which is the, the plug-inhybrid. And that those models
(11:45):
actually allow for full EVranges. So they'll operate like
a true fully electric vehicle,but
Harrison Waters (11:52):
Also still have the backup .
Payton Oehlschlager (11:54):
Yes. They , they still got the, still got
the , uh, internal combustionengine. So if you want to take
a trip across the country andyou , and you don't wanna mess
with having range anxiety, youcan do that where if you're, if
you're gonna piddle around townor something, or if you're
commute, if you're driving, ifyou're driving eight minutes to
work, you know, these plug-inhybrids have, you know, all EV
(12:16):
ranges. It's, I think it's, Ithink it's like usually 20
miles to around like 50 miles Ithink is about the furthest ,
um, full EV range Okay . Ofthe, of the plug-ins right now.
And I would, I mean , I wouldhave to guess that's gonna just
continue to go up.
Harrison Waters (12:29):
So it is a perfect in the middle can work
for that , um, you know, canget your daily commute done,
but also have the , uh, safetyblanket of , uh, of an engine
if needed, if you go on longertrips. Um, so something to
consider, it sounds like doingyour research is important ,
um, when it comes to purchasinga vehicle , um, utilizing , um,
you know, there's a toolkit outthere that a lot of the
(12:50):
cooperative , uh, websites havethat showcase and can help you
determine if it's the right fitfor you. So, you know, we've
discussed the importance of, of, uh, range and how far
affordability , um, and theseare continuing to grow and then
now it's hybrid. It's thatperfect in between . So it
could be the best one to jumpinto first if you're not ready
(13:11):
to go full into , uh, a , uh,ev
Payton Oehlschlager (13:13):
Yeah, absolutely. A great
introduction into kind of theEV world and learning how the
car operates without, you know, fully diving both feet in off
the deep end and, and, andimmersing yourself in that it
still allows that security and,you know, gets you used to the
new tech.
Harrison Waters (13:32):
Well, let me ask you this, and I , this
could be something you're notaware of. Um, have you operated
in a hybrid vehicle?
Payton Oehlschlager (13:37):
Yeah, so my wife, my , so my wife
actually drives, it's just atraditional high hybrid. It's
not a plugin. Okay . Um , butshe, she drives a , a hybrid.
Harrison Waters (13:45):
Now, if anyone out there hasn't tried to drive
an electric vehicle before orhad , you know, if you're
familiar with a battery poweredgolf cart or something, it , it
has a totally different feel.
Um , the way an EV drivesversus a car is , is totally
different. Does it feel thatway? Can you feel when it
switches over, can , does itfeel like an EV and then all of
a sudden it goes back to theengine? And do
Payton Oehlschlager (14:05):
You , so when it's, when it's operating,
if , if you've got it set towhere you're operating in like
a traditional hybrid mode, youcan kind of feel it just in
that, like if it's a fourcylinder engine internal
combustion engine , it'sprobably not gonna have a whole
lot of pep getting off theline. Um, but if you've got a
hybrid that that electric motoris gonna help get it going.
(14:27):
Yeah . And so your , theresponse time's gonna be a
little bit different. Andthat's really the only, and ,
and it's usually they're alittle bit smoother. So for
our, for our hybridspecifically, it, they're ,
it's , it's an electrictransmission and so there's no,
there's like no RPMs, it's notmeasured in RPMs. It's instead
of, you know, getting up to, to4,000 RPMs and shifting and you
(14:50):
feel it, you feel the RPMsdrop. Okay . And you feel the
engine change. Yeah. Um, thatdoesn't happen in, in, you
know, a traditional hybrid.
It's all just smooth cuz thattransmission is engineered in a
completely different way.
Interesting. Um, so that'sdifferent now. And , and that's
gonna be how it is in an actualplug-in hybrid too. If you
don't have it in EV only mode,if you've got it , if you have
(15:12):
it in EV only mode, it's gonnaoperate like an ev it's gonna
have instant torque, all ofthat stuff. All the stuff you
hear, it's all the stuff youhear on, on EV commercials
whenever if , if you see acommercial for the new, you
know, the new Ford Mustang orthe new , uh, or the new
Lightning or , or Tesla orwhatever that they're talking
about all the, you know, it's,it's zero to 60 times crazy.
Harrison Waters (15:33):
Yeah. It has some jump It is definitely
giddy, giddy
Payton Oehlschlager (15:35):
Up . Yes.
It's gonna have all it's gonnarun that way. Um, it's just
obviously it's gonna be ashorter
Harrison Waters (15:41):
Distance.
Yeah. I wonder if all hybridshave the option to , um, to
switch it between EV only. Dothey have all the, can you tell
it what to do? I'm sure thetech is there for all hybrids,
but I'm not aware.
Payton Oehlschlager (15:53):
Yeah, well just if it's , if it's a plugin
hybrid, then you can, if it'straditional, it's gonna , it's
it's gonna ,
Harrison Waters (15:59):
It's what it is all time . Okay . I gotcha .
Yeah. And so, you know, that ,um, leads me into, you've made
the purchase, right? So you,you , you check the boxes,
decide this is the best fit foryou. Um, now it , it's like
getting this thing home. Okay .
It's totally different worldbecause before you were relying
on a gas station, now you'rehome and you're like, okay,
I've gotta plug this in everynight. You've got , um,
(16:21):
electrical work because the,the , um, ev actually requires
some pretty decent charging. Somaybe tell me, let's dive into
like you're, you're pulling thedriveway, you're super excited,
you know , um, you gotta yougotta charge this thing. What
does that look like? And thenalso you gotta , how does it
charge You just plug itstraight into a regular outlet.
Of course you maybe differentpower demands there. Yeah,
Payton Oehlschlage (16:41):
Absolutely.
So always great. Uh , firstthings first is get in touch
with your co-op. Um, because ifyou're, if you're looking at
home charging, you , you cancharge, they've got, you know,
you've got level one, level twoand level three chargers and
level one is just plugging itstraight into 120 volt outlet
(17:01):
and it's gonna take you like 24hours to get a full charge. I
don't think that that is reallygetting used , um, really by
hardly anybody. Cuz it's justreally not practical. Like if
you're, if you're gonna get anev you're not gonna wait 24
hours to fill it up to charge.
Right. Um , and so what'swhat's most common is putting
some kind of, of level two orlike mid-range charging system
(17:25):
in, in your home. So like inyour garage, outside your
garage, something like that.
And those level two systems,it's gonna be, you can either
plug 'em in into a 240 voltoutlet, so like what you plug a
dryer into. Okay. Um, or , uh,I feel like most, a lot of
people just, just get themwired in , um, directly to
their garage. And that'ssomething that you'd want to ,
(17:46):
obviously you'd want like a ,like a certified electrician or
, or , or professional engineerto do. Um , just so that it's
so that it's done right. Butthat's the amount of load that
it's, that it's requiring. Andso that will charge your, your
ev in, you know, four hoursuhhuh a full, full charge. And
so that is much more practicalwhen you're talking about like
coming home from work, pluggingit in. And a lot of these
(18:08):
chargers are smart and you canactually, and and what what I
tell people whenever they , ifthey ask me about it is you
can, you can set times that youwant it to charge. So like you
, you , you probably don'twanna necessarily have it start
charging right when you get in,get know, get in from work, but
you can plug it in, program it,and it will, then it'll kick on
at like 11:00 PM or something.
(18:29):
Yeah . And then that way it'sdone and ready to go by 5:00 AM
the next morning. Um, but youstill get a full charge.
Harrison Waters (18:36):
Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So definitely
what I heard there is , uh,check with , uh, qualified
electrician talk with yourcooperative in regards to , uh,
getting this, if you're gonnaget it wired into your, your
panel, making sure that youhave enough bandwidth there to
cover the power demand for ,especially if you get, if you
get two of 'em and you're , youknow, cuz a lot of car , you
know, households have two cars,so
Payton Oehlschlager (18:56):
Yes, absolutely. And excuse me , um,
very important, especially whenwe're talking about like
obviously our members, it'srural, rural Missouri. Right?
And so if you , if you, ifyou're living on a farm and
you're down towards the end ofthe line and there's maybe not
a ton of capacity on that line,so there's not meaning there's
not a ton of, there's not a tonof power flowing on that line
(19:18):
anyway. Maybe the transformerat your house, your service,
your , the , the poweravailable at your home isn't
necessarily like just a ton ofa ton of energy at your home
available to you. And so youstart adding, you add in, you
wire in one home charger andthen, you know, you wire in a
second home charger that couldpotentially tap out the
(19:39):
transformer at your home. Andso that's why it's very
important to like keep yourco-op in the loop throughout
the process so that if you doneed a transformer upgrade and
you need to go from 200 ampservice to a 400 amp service
mm-hmm .
beforehand instead of , youknow, blowing a transformer.
Right . Or, or , or doing orcausing something to, to , to ,
(20:01):
to malfunction. Um, and that ,cuz that's, that's no fun for,
that's no fun for anybody.
Right . It's no fun for us. Nofun
Harrison Waters (20:06):
For them .
Well, and it's, no, it'scertainly like not fun. It ,
it's great to , uh, avoid goingto the pump. Right? That's what
you're doing. You'reeliminating going to a gas
station, but now you're tellingme if you get two of these,
you're looking at maybe the ,um, the low demand of, of two
drying your dryers. Um, so ifyou're running your dryer also
now you've got three of thosegoing at once, that's a pretty
(20:27):
decent amount of power beingpulled hopefully in your HVAC
could be running . I meanthat's, you're, you're going
to, you're gonna see it on yourelectric bill mm-hmm.
maybe this is a great seguestraight into the difference
between kilowatt versus, youknow, fuel, you know, prices.
How do they determine that? Howdo you know , um, obviously
(20:48):
with the, the fuel prices, thevolatility of the price
changing all the time, how canyou do that equation?
Payton Oehlschlager (20:55):
Honestly that that's, that's all that it
is. It's, it's, it's justrunning the numbers. So it's,
it's determining how far youcan get on a tank of gas, how
many, how many miles that getsyou. Okay. And then you're
taking the , the cost of thatgas, dividing it by that
mileage. And that's, that's howmuch it costs you if in gas to
get that far. And then you'redoing the same thing for an ev.
(21:18):
So if you've got a 300 milerange and you're ev if you're
charging it at home, you'retaking that, that the rate that
you're paying for that electricmm-hmm.
are then comparing thosenumbers. It's, it's really ,
it's just an , it's just anequation. It's like
Harrison Waters (21:31):
Yeah. It's just a But that equation is out
there, right? That's on yourwebsite. Can you go to your
website? Is that part of thattoolkit ? The choose EV toolkit
?
Payton Oehlschlager (21:37):
Yes. Yeah.
If you pull up choosey , ev andI think pretty much every co-op
in the state , um, has that ontheir website. Yeah.
Harrison Waters (21:45):
The majority are using that. So go to your
co-OP's website for it.
Payton Oehlschlager (21:49):
Yeah. And, and so it'll, it'll show you
what you'll save and what thedifference would be. And it ,
and I think it gets as granularas like looking at different
models of EVs mm-hmm.
Right . And , and you can putin all those
Harrison Waters (22:02):
And in your current car too. Yes. Your car
, you can put in your currentcar, what the ev you're looking
at it , it starts to do all themath for you. Um, it'll, it'll
answer this, you know, ifyou're into, you know, that
equation, making sure thatyou're gonna be covered.
Because once again, you do haveto look at the fact that you
are , uh, avoiding the pump. Um, but you'll also have to , um,
consider how much you're addingto your electric bill due to
(22:24):
the fact that you're , um, youknow, putting that load , uh,
in demand of, of power need atyour home. Mm-hmm.
that one off the list. Yeah .
If you gotta, you've gotta doall of these before just
jumping into it, you know, ofcourse. You know, gotta look
affordability. You've gottalook at is it a viable option
for your commute and yourvacations and the travel you do
(22:45):
now. You gotta look at , um,support at your home for the
actual charging of this. Mm-hmm.
infrastructure, I guess. Yeah.
Perfect. Okay. Well let's jumpover to possibly the business
side of things or looking atsome of the different chargers
out there. You know, you'vementioned one, it sounds like
level one is nearly obsolete atthis point. Yeah . And we're ,
(23:07):
we're , all I hear is level twoversus level three chargers. Um
, you maybe break that down.
Elaborate on what makes sensehere when you would use a level
three charger. Yeah,
Payton Oehlschlager (23:17):
So the level the , the difference in
the Chargers themselves islevel two is gonna get you from
zero to 80% in like two to fourhours typically. And then your
level three , um, that's gonnaget you from zero to 80% in ,
you know, 40 minutes to anhour. So it's almost
Harrison Waters (23:33):
Half the time.
Payton Oehlschlager (23:34):
Yeah. It's , it's , it's pretty close. And
so functionally that's, that'sthe difference from our
member's perspective. From ourperspective, it's a massive
difference in the actual powerrequired to run those different
types of stations. Um, and sothe level two that's gonna ,
that's kind of like mid-levelpower, like we said, it's, it's
something like, you know, theresidential ones are drier . Um
(23:55):
, the commercial ones thatyou'll find publicly are they
gonna , are , they're gonnadraw more than that, but still
a level two nonetheless. Um,and so something that is always
important, I feel like that I ,when I'm , when I'm talking to
members about this that they'reconsidering is like, okay, when
is it a good idea? Like when doI need to be looking for one
charger or the other mm-hmm.
(24:16):
about this is a level, levelthree charging or d CFC
charging , um, depending on, on, on, you know, what you're
looking at or whatever it ,it'll be referred to as , as
both. Um, that type ofcharging, that fast charging
really should be a a a lastresort, you know, for our
(24:37):
members. Okay . If, if they, ifthey're in a bind, if they're
in a pension, that's the onlything that's available. Um,
obviously use it better than,better than running out. Um,
but the tradeoff there isyou're gonna pay a premium. So
those, those fast chargers arealmost always going to be more
(24:59):
expensive mm-hmm .
level two charging. But thendefinitely more expensive than
at-home level two charging. Soreally if, if you can help it,
and I think the number issomething like 80%, if , if
you've got an ev you're , youshould expect to do about 80%
of your charging at home onyour home charger. And there ,
(25:21):
there's obviously, there's acouple different things that
play into that. It's, it's moreconvenient cuz it's at home ,
you know, you're getting home,you're not going anywhere over
the over, you know, overnight.
So you can just let it chargeand then you can use it the
next day. Um , but the secondpart of that is it's, it's
just, it's less expensive. Um,you're, you're getting power
directly from the source.
You're paying, you know whatyou're paying in electric, you
(25:42):
know what the rate is for yourhome. That's what you're paying
whenever you're charging athome. Mm-hmm.
that rate is not what you'repaying if you're going to a , a
publicly available charger andyou're paying, you know, you
gotta think that you'reprobably paying for the
electric that you're, you'regetting plus, you know, the ,
the overhead of whoeveractually owns that station
(26:04):
right . On top of that. So thelikelihood of it actually being
, um, as cheap as, as
Harrison Waters (26:08):
They're gonna make some money for putting in
the charger for you to make itconvenient, similar to a gas
station. Yeah .
Payton Oehlschlager (26:13):
Which only , I mean, it only makes sense.
Yeah. Um , but it's justsomething that, I mean, it's
still new, so like you mightnot actually like think about
that part of it.
Harrison Waters (26:20):
Yeah. What , um, that's, that's good to
know. And so yeah, it soundslike you gotta take that, you
know, start with your at homelevel two, then look for level
twos if you're out there, butyou're gonna pay some more and
possibly level threes if you'rein a pinch and mm-hmm .
charger to, to do a fullcharge. You might just be using
it to make sure you have enoughto get back home and
Payton Oehlschlager (26:39):
Yes.
Absolutely. And, and I mean, Ifeel like this is a good like
rolling right into, I, I feellike I, I have a lot of
conversations with, withbusiness owners about this
because it's new technology and, and , and people that wanna
see, you know, be seen as, youknow, being on, on the front of
the curve and not the back ofthe curve mm-hmm.
, um, are looking at, you know,hey, I'm interested in, in
(27:04):
putting, in charging , um, at ,at my business. Like I , I'm ,
I'm seeing all thesecommercials, EVs are coming,
everybody says EVs are comingget on the wave. Yes. And I , I
want to be ready to go. And I ,it's , it's admirable that they
are, you know, trying to getahead of it and, and figuring
out how to , how to positionthemselves. Well and I , I
think that one of the mostimportant things you can do in
that situation, which is great,reach out to your co-op, see,
(27:27):
alright , what , what does thisprocess look like? Mm-hmm.
like determining what wouldactually fit your business
well. Um, because obviously ifyou're, if you're listening to
commercials, you're, you'relistening to the, if you're on
a , a government webinar orsomething and they're talking
about the need for, for fastchargers all over the place, we
need more fast charging, weneed more fast charging. That's
(27:49):
true. But it may not actuallybe beneficial for your
business. Mm-hmm .
know, if you're on I 44 and youknow, you've got a ton of, of
through traffic that they'restopping and they're filling up
and they're leaving could makea lot of sense, then maybe it
makes sense. Yeah. But ifyou're not on a corridor like
(28:13):
that, and let's say , uh, youknow, you're a shopping center
or something, or a restaurantand your customers are coming
in, they're parking, they'regonna hang out for a while ,
then I , I would venture to saythat a level three is not
necessarily the right, right.
Choice one, they're, they'refar more expensive than level
twos. Mm-hmm .
And then two, they are, they'refar more expensive in
(28:36):
infrastructure costs . So likeyou're talking, you know,
potential lineup upgrades and ,and just a , a ton of
infrastructure work that is notusually required for a level
two charger. Right. And if youthink about it, is it really
that bad of a thing to haveyour customers coming in and
plugging in their car for twohours while they, while they
(28:57):
get something that while theyget something to eat while they
walk around, go shop while theyhonestly a great fit. And
specifically, you know, down inBranson, got a lot of resorts
Oh , okay. Yeah. Lodgingresorts, something with that
phenomenal parking , phenomenaloption pay for it . Right .
For, for level two chargingbecause Right . If it , you
know, people that have EVs,they're looking up, Hey, where
can I stay that I can get acharge? Right. And so that
(29:20):
immediately puts you in thatbucket. And then again, just a
great fit for, they're comingin, they're done, they're done
with their vacation day orwhatever it is. Mm-hmm.
spend the extra overhead to doa level three charger and
they're getting all thefunctionality that they need.
And it's, it's , it's a win-winfor everybody . Yeah. So it's,
do your homework. You
Harrison Waters (29:40):
Know, our cooperative , uh, service
territory for Associateelectric includes, you know, 51
distribution systems . So a lotof them are that rural , um,
footprint. And so not all ofthem have , uh, maybe a Branson
around the corner mm-hmm .
lodging or, or attract , uh,traction entertainment stay. So
places where people are gonnastop for an hour no matter
(30:02):
what. Yep . Same thing. Um , soyou have to keep that in mind
to , you know, cause I know,like I said, you , you want the
business to make the rightdecision. Um, the common theme
here I have heard is reach outto your local electric
cooperative because they, theyhave people like Peyton, they
have people that can answerthese questions and they get a
lot of them . Um, there'sanother one that's been coming
up , uh, uh, I think a lotlately that you've heard of is
(30:24):
, are these 19 kilowattchargers? And that might be
kind of early on that, but whoknows have a year from now how
many more adoption of that? CuzI'm sure the level two three,
there's gonna keep growing. Sohave you heard a lot of those
discussions about these
Payton Oehlschlager (30:39):
Chargers ?
Yeah, they're definitelygaining traction and to get in
, I mean, not to get intoutility speak , but 19, no,
don't Exactly 19 kw. So allthat means is that it's a lot
of power. So that's, it's stilltechnically a level two
charger. Okay. So it's stilltechnically a mid range
charger, but it's pulling downclose to 80 amps of power ,
Harrison Waters (31:03):
Um, for like a home. And you're talking
residential,
Payton Oehlschlager (31:05):
So you technically could put it in a
home. I haven't really seenthat where I've seen these or
it , it is a business case. Solike it would be a restaurant
or something and they'rewanting to put a level two
charger because there is stillless infrastructure involvement
and they're still cheaper thanlevel threes. But that is where
you're closer to a 0% to a ,uh, 80% charge. Mm-hmm .
(31:29):
, two and a half hours insteadof your, you know, the longer
four hour time period. So ifyou're wanting to have that be
an option, these level , uh,these level two 19 KW chargers,
they're kind of, they're kindof picking up a little bit of
traction in that regard. Sowhat I would say to that, I
don't think that they're ,they're not gonna slow down cuz
they're, they do fit a goodlittle segment of the market
(31:52):
that is, yeah . It's fasterthan a , a slow level two, but
it's cheaper than a levelthree. Um, so the biggest thing
for that is you absolutely aregonna want to talk to your
co-op because the likelihood ofa required service upgrade, if
you're at that kind of of power, um, you know, to your, your
current load mm-hmm.
(32:13):
to , uh, to have some kind ofupgrade. Yeah . So you're gonna
want to get them involved earlyso that you don't end up with
some, some , some bad news andfind out you've got , yeah.
You've got power issues goingforward.
Harrison Waters (32:24):
Well, and this might be new now and who knows
if you were listening to thissix months down the road or a
year, it could be far morecommon mm-hmm .
and who knows what, you know,when it comes to EV adoption,
we're still, you know, we're inthe early days here. I know,
you know, EVs, I don't know howlong they've been around. We
can maybe throw that up on ascreen and throw out the date.
Cuz I'm not sure of that. Youknow, you're the SME in this.
I'm just the average Joe. But,you know, really, when it all
(32:46):
is said and done, we're in thevery early states of all this
and you just, you want get it .
If you wanna get on board ,just make sure you can cross
off a lot of this. Um, yeah .
I'll say from AssociatedElectric standpoint in regards
to , um, the grid, I know thatthat is something that mass ,
uh, electric vehicle adoptionis going to take some time for
(33:06):
, um, the building of newinfrastructure for the grid to
be , um, to understand, youknow , this additional load,
right? Yeah . Mm-hmm.
know, it's, it's a slow climb.
Like they're not all coming onat once and we're not, not
everybody is running out andgetting an EV today, but the
numbers continue to grow. Andso I think that's something
(33:27):
that needs to be continuallymonitored. I'm sure the
cooperatives are doing that,especially at the generation
and transmission levels aswell. So , uh, um, you know, I
think that , uh, we'll seewhere it all ends up. Right.
Yeah,
Payton Oehlschlage (33:39):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's exciting times to,it's exciting times to be in
the industry. It's excitingtimes just for the American
population at large justbecause there's so much change
going on all the time and , andthere is so much development
going on , um, in , in theelectric industry, in the grid
, um, you know, as a whole. Um, so yes, there's tons of data
(33:59):
getting collected , um, fromthe EVs that are on the road
now so that , that we can, youknow, prepare for the , the
path ahead in the , in thefuture that is, is laying out
there in front of us so thateverybody can be in a good
position, you know mm-hmm .
catches up a little bit.
Harrison Waters (34:14):
Well, and it , it seemed like just a few years
ago it was like , uh, there waslike , uh, Teslas and a couple
other options and every year itseems like another car
manufacturer has come on boardto, to meet that , um,
requirement to be all , uh,electric at some point. And so
we'll see what that looks likein the future. But I know that
this has been helpful becauseI'm learning a lot just kind of
(34:36):
going through the topics thatit sounds like our cooperatives
are getting all the time. Um,these are pretty much the most
common , uh, questions that ,uh, that Peyton's hearing
mm-hmm .
start to get out in front of,and like he , like he was
mentioning, keep in mind thatyou need to go through a
checklist to determine if it'sright for you. Right. Determine
that and absolutely. Uh , geton your cooperatives , um,
(35:00):
website and look for thatChoose EV toolkit that they're
gonna have on there and lookfor that page. And they've got
some great information there toreally help with that and also
reach out to them and , um, tolearn if it's the right fit for
you. Anything else you need toadd? Peyton? Does , did I hit
Payton Oehlschlager (35:14):
It? Yeah, nailed it. Okay . Just happy to
this super fun day. Well,
Harrison Waters (35:17):
Thank you so much for , uh, joining us. This
was Peyton, I'm Harrison, and ,uh, you're listening to Power
for Your Life Podcast , uh,electric vehicles. We're , uh,
we're happy to have you be sureto go to Members first , uh,
website to learn more aboutthis and other topics on the
benefits of being a cooperativemember and energy efficiency.
And that's all for now. Thanksfor joining.
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