January 31, 2021 • 29 mins
Did you know… adding insulation to your home can be one of the fastest and most cost-effective ways to reduce your energy costs! Listen to expert guest Kris Williams, Director of Energy Services at Ozarks Electric Cooperative, discuss the advantages of insulation, different types, which is the best to use, R-values and more so you can learn how to save energy and money with insulation.Here are some links from the podcast to help you learn more:https://www.takecontrolandsave.coop/welcome-to-our-blog/posts/2020/september/value-of-insulation/https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/weatherize/insulation
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aaron (00:00):
My name is Aaron . I belong to the Como Cooperative
out of Tipton, Missouri. Andtheir service is amazing.
They're very friendly and eagerto help us anytime we need it.
And the reliability is amazing.
Harrison Waters (00:35):
Well welcome everybody to the Power For Your
Life podcast, where we focus onenergy efficiency, the value of
electric, cooperativemembership, and safety around
electricity. I'm your host,Harrison Waters, and today
we'll be discussing the valueof insulation. Adding
insulation to your home can beone of the fastest and most
cost effective ways to reduceyour energy costs . And with me
(00:58):
on the phone today to talkabout how you can benefit from
proper insulation is ChrisWilliams. He's the Director of
Energy Services here at OzarksElectric Cooperative. Chris,
thanks for joining me today.
Chris Williams (01:09):
Thank you for having me.
Harrison Waters (01:10):
Absolutely.
Well, I, I recently came acrossa , uh, an interesting fact
from the US Department ofEnergy, and it's stated that
one of the most cost effectiveways to make a home more
comfortable year round is toadd insulation to your attic.
You know, based on that, whatwe know is insulation can save
energy and money and make yourhome more comfortable. Are
(01:31):
there any other advantages ofinsulation?
Chris Williams (01:34):
You're right, Harrison. Uh , not only does
insulation add to the comfortand savings in your home, but
it also prevents moisture,which can cause mold and
mildew. Certain types ofinsulation such as celluloses,
can even prevent insects androdents from taking up
residents . And if you haveteenagers like I do, it will
(01:54):
help muffle their musicalinstruments and video games.
Also, an important example ofproper amount of insulation is
the potential reduction in thesize of the HVAC equipment in
your home. Not only does thecorrect amount of insulation
save on the electric bill , butit can also save on the wear
and tear of the HVAC equipment.
Harrison Waters (02:14):
Wow, that's interesting. That's great to
know. Yeah, a lot of moreadvantages to adding insulation
than I would've ever thoughtof. I know there's several
different types of insulationlike you mentioned. Can you
maybe elaborate on those andtell me what's the most EF
efficient?
Chris Williams (02:28):
Yeah, that's correct. Insulation materials
are all across the board. Iwill highlight the most common
for our area from bulky fibermaterials such as fiberglass,
rock and slag , wool ,cellulose and natural fibers.
All of these articles resistconductive and convective heat
(02:48):
flow . There are also rigidfoam boards to foils, which
trap air to resist conductconductive heat flow. We feel
that you get the best bang foryour buck through cellulose
insulation, which is recyclednewspaper material due to the R
value of 3.5 to 3.8 RS perinch. Foam insulation or foam
(03:12):
in place . Insulation has avery high R value of seven to
eight rs per inch and producesa strong air barrier, but can
be more expensive to install.
Harrison Waters (03:25):
Interesting.
Okay. And maybe tell me alittle bit more about like
what's the most common type ofinsulation that in this area?
Chris Williams (03:32):
Most common , uh, insulation are area R
cellulose , uh, foam phone .
You see a lot of , uh, therigid walls that you put up
before you , uh, add theoutside material to the house.
Harrison Waters (03:45):
Well, that's great to hear, Chris. Thank
you. You know, and honestlyI've, I've really, I'm always
familiar with the, the pinkbags, you know, of, of
insulation. Um, is, is thatsomething that's pretty common?
Chris Williams (03:58):
It's one that's really been marketed , uh,
really well over the last 20years and it , it's not the
only kind out there. It'sprobably the most convenient
cuz you can just buy it inrolls and just put in your
attic, put in your walls. Butthere are better types out
there and you can reallyinvestigate that through the R
(04:19):
values . If you look, you know,fiberglass has a , an r value
of , of around two rs per inch.
You get up into the cellulose,which cellulose has been around
since the mid sixties, earlyseventies. So it's been around
a while, but you do get up intocloser to four hours per inch
(04:39):
on cellulose. So definitely alot of types of insulation out
there. Do your due diligenceand, and investigate the best
kind that you need in yourhome. Gotcha.
Harrison Waters (04:49):
Yeah. So what you're saying is possibly if
you look at your, your atticsor, or in , uh, crawlspace or
different areas and you seethose , uh, those bags and
pink, you know, insulation inthere, it doesn't necessarily
mean that you have greatinsulation Right. It over the
years, you know, there could bedifferences there, right?
Chris Williams (05:08):
That's, that's correct. We, we often get that
question asked here andfiberglass to us is it makes a
real good filter and uh , whatyou need is a conductive
barrier. You need somethingthat'll stop that heat from ,
uh, infiltrated in your homeand , and unfortunately
fiberglass doesn't do a greatjob of that.
Harrison Waters (05:30):
Well , great.
And I know you mentioned the,the r value when you're talking
different types of insulationand of course I've heard that
before, but I don't really knowexactly what it means. I've
heard how much I maybe need tohave in my house. Can you maybe
elaborate on that and you know, a little bit more about the R
value needed?
Chris Williams (05:48):
Yeah, you bet.
It's a very good question. Uh,in an insulating materials
resistance to conductive heatflow is measure rated in terms
of its thermal resistance or Rvalue . The higher the r value
, the greater the insulatingeffectiveness. Therefore, if
you've been in your home 10, 20or even 30 years, adding more
(06:11):
insulation will increase the Rvalue and the resistance to
heat flow. We often getquestions here at Ozarks , uh,
about cellulose loose fill andwhat to do about settling. It's
important to note that as theinstalled thickness increases
for loose fill insulation, thesettle density of the product
(06:34):
increases due to thecompression of the insulation
under its own weight because ofthis loose fuel installations
are valued, does not changeproportionally with thickness.
Also importance is to recognizethe geographical zone that your
home is in.
Harrison Waters (06:54):
Hmm . No, that's interesting. For sure.
It makes a lot of sense. Uh,you know, thinking about them ,
our members and listening, youknow, within the associate
family of cooperatives, wecould have a member as far
north as southern Iowa or asfar as south as northeastern
Oklahoma. So I suppose thatthese zones you're talking
about, they may differ quite abit from the most northern to
(07:16):
the most southern part of ourterritory.
Chris Williams (07:18):
Yeah, you're correct. The farther north you
go, the higher the recommendedlevels of insulation, for
example, zone five in thenorthern most part of Missouri
and southern Iowa recommends aminimum of R 49 in the attic
and a minimum of R 25 in thefloor . Zone four, which
(07:39):
occupies the majority ofMissouri, recommends a minimum
of R 38 in the attic and R 25in the floors while zone three
here where I am in Oklahomarecommends a minimum of R 30 in
the attic and R 19 in thefloors.
Harrison Waters (07:55):
Wow. Yeah, that's a, that's a big
difference in a range in thoser values there. Wow. I've got
another question on R values .
You've mentioned the, the rvalue amount necessary for the
attic, which I think a lot ofmembers would understand how to
measure that. Tell me about ther value you mentioned on
floors. Is this somethingthat's underneath the floor
(08:17):
itself? This isn't somethingthat you can see if you were to
go in a crawl space , correct?
Chris Williams (08:22):
Yeah. The , and , and that primarily was for
crawlspace is what I mentioned.
And , and yeah, you can see ,uh, any crawl space if , if
you're underneath the home,that's primarily a , a bat type
insulation that's stapled upunderneath that crawlspace. So
yeah, that okay , that's forthat recommendation.
(08:43):
Recommendation came in .
Harrison Waters (08:45):
So if I go down in my crawlspace, which I
have done, I've looked andthere's certain areas that I
can actually just see thefloorboards up in between all,
you know, the different rafter, you know, does that, that's
something that I could see animmediate benefit if I were to
get all that insulated , um,how cold my floors are, which
then I guess would just radiinto my home.
Chris Williams (09:05):
Right. Yeah.
That'll benefit it , it kind ofdepends on your outside wall
into that crawl space . If, ifit's insulated really well,
that part of your envelopewon't be as affected , but, you
know , some crawl spaces don'treally have any, they may have
a metal sheet that's protectingthe outside air from getting
(09:25):
underneath the home. Mm-hmm.
, if that's thecase, you definitely need that
insulation up under the home,but, but if your wall around
the outside of your home isinsulated, well you've got a
pretty good barrier rightthere.
Harrison Waters (09:39):
Gotcha. So if you think, if you think that
heat rises, a lot of people arealways concerned about the
attic cuz they don't want theirheat to to to slip out. But
even thinking in terms of thewinter and insulating, can you
see just as many benefits frominsulating a crawl space that's
not insulated at all?
Chris Williams (09:58):
You know, that's definitely where I would
focus. If that outside air canget underneath that house, it
infiltrates right up into yourfloors pretty crucial.
Harrison Waters (10:07):
Yeah. I think that's where I need to start
then I , I , I've checked the rvalue in my attic before and
it's pretty close to where itneeds to be and maybe needs a
little bit of filler, but I godown to my crawlspace and I see
areas all over the house thatare not insulated. And so I've
, I've discussed bringingsomeone in and getting that
kind of started cuz I'm like,well, I could add a couple
(10:27):
inches in my attic, but if, ifthe floors don't have anything
, uh, that seems like a abetter place for me to start,
that
Chris Williams (10:34):
Really would be
Harrison Waters (10:35):
Let's take a short break and when we come
back we'll talk more about howthese tips from Chris can be
implemented into your home andhopefully start seeing some
savings right away.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Electric cooperatives are not like other
utilities. We know yourcommunity is important to you.
In fact, it's one of ourguiding principles, concern for
community. Your electriccooperative is involved in the
community by supporting schoolsand youth and safety education
programs as well as otherevents. We live here too and we
(11:21):
care about our members and ourcommunity. Discover the value
of your co-op membership visitmembers first dot co-op today.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Are you prepared to stay safe and warm? If a winter
storm knocks out power, ice,wind and heavy snow can slow
down restoration. So have extrablankets and supplies on hand
to help weather a prolongedoutage safely. And before
venturing outside, be awarethat ice and snow can hide
dangers like downed power linesthat are energized. Learn more
(11:55):
about winter stormsafety@safeelectricity.org.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Discover the value of your co-op membership visit
members first dot co-op today.
Energy saving tip number 84,ensure windows and doors are
properly weather stripped andused door sweeps.
Harrison Waters (12:48):
All right , well welcome back to The Power
For Your Life podcast. We'revisiting today with Chris
Williams from Ozarks ElectricCooperative . You know, you've
explained the benefits ofinsulation and all the
different types and how to knowthe amount you should have. So
let's talk about how do weimplement this. So Chris, where
does a member go to getstarted?
Chris Williams (13:07):
Yes, Harrison , this is definitely where the
rubber meets the road. Ibelieve the best place to start
is in the attic. Prepareyourself with a flashlight and
a measuring stick. Make sure tobe safe and check the thickness
in several areas of the attic.
Once you measure the thicknessof insulation, verify the type
of insulation in the home andyour geographical zone that the
(13:30):
home is in. If you neededadditional insulation , we will
often recommend cellulose dueto the multitude of benefits.
Also, the electric cooperativeshave a , they have a network of
experts that can help and somecooperatives even utilize
infrared cameras that detectlack of insulation and walls
(13:51):
and hard to reach attic areasas well as glor testing, which
can identify leaks andunforeseen issues within the
home. But just check with yourlocal cooperative for more
details. Another DIY that a lotof members can perform is
caulking and ceiling before youadd insulation. Ideal areas to
(14:14):
caulk are around canned lights,under sinks around the plumbing
cavities and access , uh, atticaccess points. A couple of cans
of Cal will seal a large areaof your home. Also, there are
some great YouTube videos , uh,on caulking where if you feel
uncomfortable performing thesetasks, contact your cooperative
(14:38):
for help identifying a localcompany. And just please
remember that if you have gasor propane in your home, it's
important that the housereceives fresh air unlike that
of total electric homes.
Harrison Waters (14:52):
Huh, well that's great to know. Do you
recommend anything here on, youknow, maybe a DIY versus a
higher job? Is this somethingthat a lot of members can do
themselves or do you mayberecommend having someone come
out and and handle thisprofessionally?
Chris Williams (15:07):
A lot of this, as far as ca you know, we , we
provide a do-it-yourself kitthat they can receive a ca gun
with several cans of caulk .
Most anybody , uh, that canhandle a , you know, a a little
knife that can cut that end offcan do this type of of work.
(15:28):
It's really not, not thatdifficult.
Harrison Waters (15:31):
Great, great.
Um, I've got one more questionon this. Maybe tell me, you
know, I, I have several of thecan lights in my home and is it
beneficial to make sure youhave the proper light in those,
like I've had a couple of thecan lights have ordinary, you
know, bulbs in there. Um, is itabout filling the, the fixture
that goes into the wall or doesthe light actually benefit by
(15:52):
making it flush up againstyour, your ceiling?
Chris Williams (15:55):
Yeah, and that's a good question. Can
lights , what we've always ,uh, suggested is, is to just
put a , a small bead of talkaround the flush area of the
light that connects with theceiling. Over the last few
years, there's been a lot ofnew l e d fixtures that you can
(16:17):
actually pull out your existingbulb, like you mentioned, and
put in this new l e d fixturethat will squeeze up against
the ceiling and make a barrierthat , uh, prevents your
conditioned air to re uh , getup into the attic. So there,
there's a couple of new ways todo it. The most inexpensive is
that can of co the ceilingaround the fixture.
Harrison Waters (16:40):
Great. And do you recommend to any of the
members out there aboutpossibly insulating other, you
know, outlets , uh outlets,light switches, those kind of
things?
Chris Williams (16:50):
Oh yeah, most definitely. And that's where we
see a lot of evidence when weperform board or testing it, it
imitates air coming in from allaround the home, 30, 40 mile an
hour wind and those are themost LA area that people look
at. And, and you can purchasegaskets that'll cover light
(17:11):
switches, that'll cover pluginsand just take off the cover
plate , put a gasket in and itprevents , uh, your conditioned
air from leaving the home.
Harrison Waters (17:22):
Great. Yeah.
Cuz the air is gonna find theway. Right.
Chris Williams (17:25):
Most definitely .
Harrison Waters (17:26):
Yeah . Well that's great information. I
really appreciate that. So arethere any other safety concerns
that we need to be aware ofwhen starting to do an
installation project like this?
Chris Williams (17:36):
Yes. Uh , as with anything, safety should be
the utmost concern whenperforming those DIY tasks.
Please always follow productinstructions, local building
codes and uh , safety onladders in an attic spaces
proper protective gear likesafety glasses and face masks
are very important whenperforming these tasks.
Harrison Waters (18:00):
Is there still an air quality issue? I know
previously with fiberglass inthat, is that something that
they should be concerned about?
Chris Williams (18:07):
Yeah, air quality is , is really, like I
kind of mentioned earlier, airquality is really important. If
you have natural gas or propanein your home, your home does
have to have a certain amountof air changes per hour. So
that's where, you know , thoselocal building codes are
important to follow.
Harrison Waters (18:25):
Well, those are all great tips , uh, Chris
and you know, maybe you'vementioned this blower door test
a few times and I'm justcurious maybe explain to our
listeners, you know, what thattest is and , and what we the
benefits of having one.
Chris Williams (18:37):
Yeah. Blow door tests are, are very important ,
uh, in our area. They've beenaround for quite a few years.
Uh , the , these tests, theydetermine the air infiltration
rate of a, of a home or abuilding blur doors. They
consist of a frame and aflexible panel that fits in the
doorway. And a variable speedfan that sits right in that, in
(19:01):
that doorway, a pressure gaugeas used to measure the pressure
differences inside and outsidethe home. And an airflow,
manometer and hoses measure theairflow. So it, it really makes
, uh, your home more efficientbecause it simulates air
(19:21):
hitting all sides of the, ofthe house. And once this fan's
running, you can walk throughthe house with a small smoke
stick and really see where thatair is coming into the house.
You know , walk by lightswitches or electric plugs and,
and you can really see where,where that outside air is
(19:42):
really infiltrating or whereyour conditioned air is
leeching out into the, theatmosphere.
Harrison Waters (19:48):
Wow, that's great. Yeah. And is this
something that a lot of ourcooperative systems will, would
have for, for others or do theyneed to go outside and , you
know, maybe look for thissomewhere else? You know,
Chris Williams (19:58):
A majority of of the cooperatives have b p i
certified professionals withinthe cooperative family or, or
they can definitely help locatesomeone that can perform these
type of tests .
Harrison Waters (20:11):
Great. Now, you know, we've mentioned a lot
about addicts. Is thereanything that, you know,
listeners need to know aboutother areas? Possibly crawl
spaces or other ways toinsulate?
Chris Williams (20:23):
Yeah. Yeah, there's so many types of homes
out there and crawlspace is, isa real big factor in
conditioned air escaping. Uh ,you've got lots of areas where
duct work can be underneaththe, in the crawl space or in
the attic. We really alwaysfocus on how do we insulate
(20:45):
that duct work ? How do weprevent animals or certain ,
uh, issues from, from tearinginto that duct work . So that's
something you should alwayscheck. We've, we've had homes
where we went underneath thehome and had some rodents under
there keeping, keeping warm orkeeping cool because the , uh,
duct work has , has come apartand , uh, insulating the bottom
(21:07):
of the , or blowing out on thebottom of the house. So
unfortunate, but, but we see itquite a bit
Harrison Waters (21:13):
. Wow.
Yeah, I never would've thoughtabout that. I mean, ha have
things changed over the yearsin how every how energy
services, what they think ofcrawlspace areas and whether
they need to be insulated orthe airflow? Cuz I know, you
know, everyone likely has someof these , uh, air vents that
allow air in and out of crawlspaces . Is that something
(21:35):
that, you know, members need tobe aware of?
Chris Williams (21:38):
Yeah, and and I would really, I would check
with local codes cuz there are, uh, there are certain
restrictions , uh, once you getunder ho a home and, and
getting that fresh air intothat area, A lot of areas you
do have to put plastic down,make sure there's a , a barrier
from keeping the soil fromleaking up leeching bad air up
(22:00):
into the home. So , uh, that'sdefinitely something. Check
with your codes, check withlocal building inspectors for
that type of in information.
Harrison Waters (22:10):
Okay. That's great to know. Yeah, I've, I've
had a house previously thatrequired a vapor barrier and it
was missing in a section andyou know, the co uh, inspection
caught that and I was requiredto go in and finish that vapor
barrier all the way across. ButI know my, my current residency
does not have that. So , um,I'm just curious of, you know,
like you said, making sure thateveryone follows up with that
(22:32):
code and knowing what theirarea , um, requires. Yeah,
Chris Williams (22:36):
Very good point.
Harrison Waters (22:37):
And I've had, you know, had my last house
inspected with the thermal andI love that that stuff gets me
like super excited to see, youknow, hot cold areas, areas
where, you know, I think wherethey add all of the , the areas
up and they kind of give youthis information. People don't
realize if you've got a littlebit of air gaps across your
(22:57):
house, it may add up to a sizeof a small window of air loss
through your house.
Chris Williams (23:02):
You're exactly right. Yeah. It's not, not
untypical to have three orfour, a three or four foot hole
in the Saudi of your house onceyou calculate all the leaks,
, I mean it's like,well just open that window and
leave it open all day. That's,that's pretty much what the
leaks have added up to , so ,
Harrison Waters (23:18):
Yeah. Yeah .
And that's, it's, it's veryconcerning when you think of it
like that. If you, if someonesays you've got an inch gap
here and a small inch gapthere, it's one thing, but then
to think that you could have athree or four foot goal , you
know, gap in your house is abig, big difference.
Chris Williams (23:34):
That's so true.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's , that'swhat that board or will really
calculate. And like I said,that infrared gun is so
important cause like you can'tsee certain, you can't see
through walls and, but you candefinitely see where, hey, that
part of my roof doesn't haveinsulation because mm-hmm .
, it's such a bigand you know, cold when it's
(23:55):
winter out, you can really tellthe difference this time of
year because there's such adelta in that difference in
cool to to heat. So youwouldn't see it this time of
year.
Harrison Waters (24:06):
Yeah. Well I certainly recommend purchasing
an infrared laser thermometerfrom your local hardware store.
And if you go to certain areasin your home and you test it
from close up , you can go fromtesting the wall temperature to
the floor temperature to thewindow and start to see how
drastic of a difference or, oreven your , um, you know, the,
(24:28):
your vents across the house ifyour , your hvac if the heat
is, is distributing, you know,the right amount of temperature
across the house makes adifference. Yeah,
Chris Williams (24:37):
That's right.
That's right. I know even, youknow, I've got an Eco B
thermostat and we just got alittle sensor that we keep on
the other side of the house andit's trying to keep it, you
know, consistentmm-hmm. , it's
calls for more heat back here.
So yeah. That , that soundslike a real good tool.
Harrison Waters (24:56):
You know, I think that it's important to
find those areas of, of airloss in your home. Is there any
concern of making your housetoo tight? Is there, you know,
you mentioned before if youhave propane or gas, if you've
checked to see that those areproperly ventilated in your
home. I , is there an issuewith making it too tight , uh,
to keep it, you know, your airinside, you know , in
Chris Williams (25:18):
Yes. Un unfortunately you can make a ,
a home too tight if you havepropane or natural or natural
gas wood heat. There's certain, uh, toxins in, in those , uh,
types of heating that need toescape the home, so mm-hmm.
. So yeah , that'svery important to check code ,
(25:39):
uh, make sure you do haveplenty of fresh air coming into
the house. Uh , we recently inone of the communities that we
serve, the code has beenincreased and it's really
pushing those, the builders inthat area to look at more
electric water, heat , electricsystems or if they don't,
they're gonna have to put freshair fans in the homes to
(26:03):
actually circulate that airout. So , uh, we're seeing a
lot of, lot of changes in, indifferent codes. So something
to pay attention to. Yeah,
Harrison Waters (26:13):
That's great.
I appreciate that. You bet .
Yeah, I wondered if that wassomething too, I know that's
not in the insulation, so Ididn't bring anything like that
up, but I also thought aboutthe opposite where everyone
thinks insulation for winter,right? They don't think
insulation for summer, but youknow, when you've got heat
outside and you've got cold airinside and insulation plays a
(26:34):
pretty good role at that pointto keep that air condition that
you're paying for inside yourhome.
Chris Williams (26:39):
Oh yeah. Yep , that's right. That envelope
needs to be keepingthat hot a hundred degree heat
out for sure.
Harrison Waters (26:48):
Okay, wonderful. Well these are all
great things, you know, membersshould keep in mind to stay
safe when they're working on aninstallation project. And you
know, Chris, you've given ourlisteners just a lot of great
information to get started andmaybe where could they go to
find out more information ifthey wanna, you know, maybe
dive a little bit deeper aboutthis?
Chris Williams (27:06):
Yeah, you bet.
First thing I always mention,you know , go to your local
electric cooperative and theyalways have some great
information on the website oryou can even call the , uh,
electric cooperative and visitwith a member for Energy
Service representative. You canalso reference the Take Control
and Save website has greatinformation on there , as well
(27:29):
as the energy.gov Energy Saverswebsite. Perfect.
Harrison Waters (27:34):
Well thank you so much Chris for joining me
today. Uh, is there anythingelse you'd like to add for our
listeners?
Chris Williams (27:39):
Definitely a little bit of money will go a
long ways. Uh , we get thatpayback pretty quick when you
start trying to seal up yourhome a little bit so it helps
with that electric bill helpswith comfort and savings. So
definitely been a pleasurevisiting with you today,
Harrison . And , uh, welcome toCooperative Family
Harrison Waters (27:58):
.
Likewise. Thank you so much.
Well, you know, I hope ourmembers can use these tips to
save energy and money to staycomfortable in their home this
winter and for years to come.
So thanks for joining us.
Chris Williams (28:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Thanks for listening to The Power for Your Life
Podcast. To learn more aboutthis topic and other safety,
efficiency and energytechnology information, contact
your local electric cooperativeor visit us on the web at
members first dot co-op. Youcan also follow us on social
(28:31):
media at facebook.com/membersfirst cooperatives
pinterest.com/members first orinstagram.com/members. First ,
if you have a question or topicyou would like us to consider
for an upcoming episode, emailus at members first@aeci.org .
My name is Aaron . I belong to the Como Cooperative
out of Tipton, Missouri. Andtheir service is amazing.
They're very friendly and eagerto help us anytime we need it.
And the reliability is amazing.
Harrison Waters (00:35):
Well welcome everybody to the Power For Your
Life podcast, where we focus onenergy efficiency, the value of
electric, cooperativemembership, and safety around
electricity. I'm your host,Harrison Waters, and today
we'll be discussing the valueof insulation. Adding
insulation to your home can beone of the fastest and most
cost effective ways to reduceyour energy costs . And with me
(00:58):
on the phone today to talkabout how you can benefit from
proper insulation is ChrisWilliams. He's the Director of
Energy Services here at OzarksElectric Cooperative. Chris,
thanks for joining me today.
Chris Williams (01:09):
Thank you for having me.
Harrison Waters (01:10):
Absolutely.
Well, I, I recently came acrossa , uh, an interesting fact
from the US Department ofEnergy, and it's stated that
one of the most cost effectiveways to make a home more
comfortable year round is toadd insulation to your attic.
You know, based on that, whatwe know is insulation can save
energy and money and make yourhome more comfortable. Are
(01:31):
there any other advantages ofinsulation?
Chris Williams (01:34):
You're right, Harrison. Uh , not only does
insulation add to the comfortand savings in your home, but
it also prevents moisture,which can cause mold and
mildew. Certain types ofinsulation such as celluloses,
can even prevent insects androdents from taking up
residents . And if you haveteenagers like I do, it will
(01:54):
help muffle their musicalinstruments and video games.
Also, an important example ofproper amount of insulation is
the potential reduction in thesize of the HVAC equipment in
your home. Not only does thecorrect amount of insulation
save on the electric bill , butit can also save on the wear
and tear of the HVAC equipment.
Harrison Waters (02:14):
Wow, that's interesting. That's great to
know. Yeah, a lot of moreadvantages to adding insulation
than I would've ever thoughtof. I know there's several
different types of insulationlike you mentioned. Can you
maybe elaborate on those andtell me what's the most EF
efficient?
Chris Williams (02:28):
Yeah, that's correct. Insulation materials
are all across the board. Iwill highlight the most common
for our area from bulky fibermaterials such as fiberglass,
rock and slag , wool ,cellulose and natural fibers.
All of these articles resistconductive and convective heat
(02:48):
flow . There are also rigidfoam boards to foils, which
trap air to resist conductconductive heat flow. We feel
that you get the best bang foryour buck through cellulose
insulation, which is recyclednewspaper material due to the R
value of 3.5 to 3.8 RS perinch. Foam insulation or foam
(03:12):
in place . Insulation has avery high R value of seven to
eight rs per inch and producesa strong air barrier, but can
be more expensive to install.
Harrison Waters (03:25):
Interesting.
Okay. And maybe tell me alittle bit more about like
what's the most common type ofinsulation that in this area?
Chris Williams (03:32):
Most common , uh, insulation are area R
cellulose , uh, foam phone .
You see a lot of , uh, therigid walls that you put up
before you , uh, add theoutside material to the house.
Harrison Waters (03:45):
Well, that's great to hear, Chris. Thank
you. You know, and honestlyI've, I've really, I'm always
familiar with the, the pinkbags, you know, of, of
insulation. Um, is, is thatsomething that's pretty common?
Chris Williams (03:58):
It's one that's really been marketed , uh,
really well over the last 20years and it , it's not the
only kind out there. It'sprobably the most convenient
cuz you can just buy it inrolls and just put in your
attic, put in your walls. Butthere are better types out
there and you can reallyinvestigate that through the R
(04:19):
values . If you look, you know,fiberglass has a , an r value
of , of around two rs per inch.
You get up into the cellulose,which cellulose has been around
since the mid sixties, earlyseventies. So it's been around
a while, but you do get up intocloser to four hours per inch
(04:39):
on cellulose. So definitely alot of types of insulation out
there. Do your due diligenceand, and investigate the best
kind that you need in yourhome. Gotcha.
Harrison Waters (04:49):
Yeah. So what you're saying is possibly if
you look at your, your atticsor, or in , uh, crawlspace or
different areas and you seethose , uh, those bags and
pink, you know, insulation inthere, it doesn't necessarily
mean that you have greatinsulation Right. It over the
years, you know, there could bedifferences there, right?
Chris Williams (05:08):
That's, that's correct. We, we often get that
question asked here andfiberglass to us is it makes a
real good filter and uh , whatyou need is a conductive
barrier. You need somethingthat'll stop that heat from ,
uh, infiltrated in your homeand , and unfortunately
fiberglass doesn't do a greatjob of that.
Harrison Waters (05:30):
Well , great.
And I know you mentioned the,the r value when you're talking
different types of insulationand of course I've heard that
before, but I don't really knowexactly what it means. I've
heard how much I maybe need tohave in my house. Can you maybe
elaborate on that and you know, a little bit more about the R
value needed?
Chris Williams (05:48):
Yeah, you bet.
It's a very good question. Uh,in an insulating materials
resistance to conductive heatflow is measure rated in terms
of its thermal resistance or Rvalue . The higher the r value
, the greater the insulatingeffectiveness. Therefore, if
you've been in your home 10, 20or even 30 years, adding more
(06:11):
insulation will increase the Rvalue and the resistance to
heat flow. We often getquestions here at Ozarks , uh,
about cellulose loose fill andwhat to do about settling. It's
important to note that as theinstalled thickness increases
for loose fill insulation, thesettle density of the product
(06:34):
increases due to thecompression of the insulation
under its own weight because ofthis loose fuel installations
are valued, does not changeproportionally with thickness.
Also importance is to recognizethe geographical zone that your
home is in.
Harrison Waters (06:54):
Hmm . No, that's interesting. For sure.
It makes a lot of sense. Uh,you know, thinking about them ,
our members and listening, youknow, within the associate
family of cooperatives, wecould have a member as far
north as southern Iowa or asfar as south as northeastern
Oklahoma. So I suppose thatthese zones you're talking
about, they may differ quite abit from the most northern to
(07:16):
the most southern part of ourterritory.
Chris Williams (07:18):
Yeah, you're correct. The farther north you
go, the higher the recommendedlevels of insulation, for
example, zone five in thenorthern most part of Missouri
and southern Iowa recommends aminimum of R 49 in the attic
and a minimum of R 25 in thefloor . Zone four, which
(07:39):
occupies the majority ofMissouri, recommends a minimum
of R 38 in the attic and R 25in the floors while zone three
here where I am in Oklahomarecommends a minimum of R 30 in
the attic and R 19 in thefloors.
Harrison Waters (07:55):
Wow. Yeah, that's a, that's a big
difference in a range in thoser values there. Wow. I've got
another question on R values .
You've mentioned the, the rvalue amount necessary for the
attic, which I think a lot ofmembers would understand how to
measure that. Tell me about ther value you mentioned on
floors. Is this somethingthat's underneath the floor
(08:17):
itself? This isn't somethingthat you can see if you were to
go in a crawl space , correct?
Chris Williams (08:22):
Yeah. The , and , and that primarily was for
crawlspace is what I mentioned.
And , and yeah, you can see ,uh, any crawl space if , if
you're underneath the home,that's primarily a , a bat type
insulation that's stapled upunderneath that crawlspace. So
yeah, that okay , that's forthat recommendation.
(08:43):
Recommendation came in .
Harrison Waters (08:45):
So if I go down in my crawlspace, which I
have done, I've looked andthere's certain areas that I
can actually just see thefloorboards up in between all,
you know, the different rafter, you know, does that, that's
something that I could see animmediate benefit if I were to
get all that insulated , um,how cold my floors are, which
then I guess would just radiinto my home.
Chris Williams (09:05):
Right. Yeah.
That'll benefit it , it kind ofdepends on your outside wall
into that crawl space . If, ifit's insulated really well,
that part of your envelopewon't be as affected , but, you
know , some crawl spaces don'treally have any, they may have
a metal sheet that's protectingthe outside air from getting
(09:25):
underneath the home. Mm-hmm.
insulation up under the home,but, but if your wall around
the outside of your home isinsulated, well you've got a
pretty good barrier rightthere.
Harrison Waters (09:39):
Gotcha. So if you think, if you think that
heat rises, a lot of people arealways concerned about the
attic cuz they don't want theirheat to to to slip out. But
even thinking in terms of thewinter and insulating, can you
see just as many benefits frominsulating a crawl space that's
not insulated at all?
Chris Williams (09:58):
You know, that's definitely where I would
focus. If that outside air canget underneath that house, it
infiltrates right up into yourfloors pretty crucial.
Harrison Waters (10:07):
Yeah. I think that's where I need to start
then I , I , I've checked the rvalue in my attic before and
it's pretty close to where itneeds to be and maybe needs a
little bit of filler, but I godown to my crawlspace and I see
areas all over the house thatare not insulated. And so I've
, I've discussed bringingsomeone in and getting that
kind of started cuz I'm like,well, I could add a couple
(10:27):
inches in my attic, but if, ifthe floors don't have anything
, uh, that seems like a abetter place for me to start,
that
Chris Williams (10:34):
Really would be
Harrison Waters (10:35):
Let's take a short break and when we come
back we'll talk more about howthese tips from Chris can be
implemented into your home andhopefully start seeing some
savings right away.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Electric cooperatives are not like other
utilities. We know yourcommunity is important to you.
In fact, it's one of ourguiding principles, concern for
community. Your electriccooperative is involved in the
community by supporting schoolsand youth and safety education
programs as well as otherevents. We live here too and we
(11:21):
care about our members and ourcommunity. Discover the value
of your co-op membership visitmembers first dot co-op today.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Are you prepared to stay safe and warm? If a winter
storm knocks out power, ice,wind and heavy snow can slow
down restoration. So have extrablankets and supplies on hand
to help weather a prolongedoutage safely. And before
venturing outside, be awarethat ice and snow can hide
dangers like downed power linesthat are energized. Learn more
(11:55):
about winter stormsafety@safeelectricity.org.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Discover the value of your co-op membership visit
members first dot co-op today.
Energy saving tip number 84,ensure windows and doors are
properly weather stripped andused door sweeps.
Harrison Waters (12:48):
All right , well welcome back to The Power
For Your Life podcast. We'revisiting today with Chris
Williams from Ozarks ElectricCooperative . You know, you've
explained the benefits ofinsulation and all the
different types and how to knowthe amount you should have. So
let's talk about how do weimplement this. So Chris, where
does a member go to getstarted?
Chris Williams (13:07):
Yes, Harrison , this is definitely where the
rubber meets the road. Ibelieve the best place to start
is in the attic. Prepareyourself with a flashlight and
a measuring stick. Make sure tobe safe and check the thickness
in several areas of the attic.
Once you measure the thicknessof insulation, verify the type
of insulation in the home andyour geographical zone that the
(13:30):
home is in. If you neededadditional insulation , we will
often recommend cellulose dueto the multitude of benefits.
Also, the electric cooperativeshave a , they have a network of
experts that can help and somecooperatives even utilize
infrared cameras that detectlack of insulation and walls
(13:51):
and hard to reach attic areasas well as glor testing, which
can identify leaks andunforeseen issues within the
home. But just check with yourlocal cooperative for more
details. Another DIY that a lotof members can perform is
caulking and ceiling before youadd insulation. Ideal areas to
(14:14):
caulk are around canned lights,under sinks around the plumbing
cavities and access , uh, atticaccess points. A couple of cans
of Cal will seal a large areaof your home. Also, there are
some great YouTube videos , uh,on caulking where if you feel
uncomfortable performing thesetasks, contact your cooperative
(14:38):
for help identifying a localcompany. And just please
remember that if you have gasor propane in your home, it's
important that the housereceives fresh air unlike that
of total electric homes.
Harrison Waters (14:52):
Huh, well that's great to know. Do you
recommend anything here on, youknow, maybe a DIY versus a
higher job? Is this somethingthat a lot of members can do
themselves or do you mayberecommend having someone come
out and and handle thisprofessionally?
Chris Williams (15:07):
A lot of this, as far as ca you know, we , we
provide a do-it-yourself kitthat they can receive a ca gun
with several cans of caulk .
Most anybody , uh, that canhandle a , you know, a a little
knife that can cut that end offcan do this type of of work.
(15:28):
It's really not, not thatdifficult.
Harrison Waters (15:31):
Great, great.
Um, I've got one more questionon this. Maybe tell me, you
know, I, I have several of thecan lights in my home and is it
beneficial to make sure youhave the proper light in those,
like I've had a couple of thecan lights have ordinary, you
know, bulbs in there. Um, is itabout filling the, the fixture
that goes into the wall or doesthe light actually benefit by
(15:52):
making it flush up againstyour, your ceiling?
Chris Williams (15:55):
Yeah, and that's a good question. Can
lights , what we've always ,uh, suggested is, is to just
put a , a small bead of talkaround the flush area of the
light that connects with theceiling. Over the last few
years, there's been a lot ofnew l e d fixtures that you can
(16:17):
actually pull out your existingbulb, like you mentioned, and
put in this new l e d fixturethat will squeeze up against
the ceiling and make a barrierthat , uh, prevents your
conditioned air to re uh , getup into the attic. So there,
there's a couple of new ways todo it. The most inexpensive is
that can of co the ceilingaround the fixture.
Harrison Waters (16:40):
Great. And do you recommend to any of the
members out there aboutpossibly insulating other, you
know, outlets , uh outlets,light switches, those kind of
things?
Chris Williams (16:50):
Oh yeah, most definitely. And that's where we
see a lot of evidence when weperform board or testing it, it
imitates air coming in from allaround the home, 30, 40 mile an
hour wind and those are themost LA area that people look
at. And, and you can purchasegaskets that'll cover light
(17:11):
switches, that'll cover pluginsand just take off the cover
plate , put a gasket in and itprevents , uh, your conditioned
air from leaving the home.
Harrison Waters (17:22):
Great. Yeah.
Cuz the air is gonna find theway. Right.
Chris Williams (17:25):
Most definitely
Harrison Waters (17:26):
Yeah . Well that's great information. I
really appreciate that. So arethere any other safety concerns
that we need to be aware ofwhen starting to do an
installation project like this?
Chris Williams (17:36):
Yes. Uh , as with anything, safety should be
the utmost concern whenperforming those DIY tasks.
Please always follow productinstructions, local building
codes and uh , safety onladders in an attic spaces
proper protective gear likesafety glasses and face masks
are very important whenperforming these tasks.
Harrison Waters (18:00):
Is there still an air quality issue? I know
previously with fiberglass inthat, is that something that
they should be concerned about?
Chris Williams (18:07):
Yeah, air quality is , is really, like I
kind of mentioned earlier, airquality is really important. If
you have natural gas or propanein your home, your home does
have to have a certain amountof air changes per hour. So
that's where, you know , thoselocal building codes are
important to follow.
Harrison Waters (18:25):
Well, those are all great tips , uh, Chris
and you know, maybe you'vementioned this blower door test
a few times and I'm justcurious maybe explain to our
listeners, you know, what thattest is and , and what we the
benefits of having one.
Chris Williams (18:37):
Yeah. Blow door tests are, are very important ,
uh, in our area. They've beenaround for quite a few years.
Uh , the , these tests, theydetermine the air infiltration
rate of a, of a home or abuilding blur doors. They
consist of a frame and aflexible panel that fits in the
doorway. And a variable speedfan that sits right in that, in
(19:01):
that doorway, a pressure gaugeas used to measure the pressure
differences inside and outsidethe home. And an airflow,
manometer and hoses measure theairflow. So it, it really makes
, uh, your home more efficientbecause it simulates air
(19:21):
hitting all sides of the, ofthe house. And once this fan's
running, you can walk throughthe house with a small smoke
stick and really see where thatair is coming into the house.
You know , walk by lightswitches or electric plugs and,
and you can really see where,where that outside air is
(19:42):
really infiltrating or whereyour conditioned air is
leeching out into the, theatmosphere.
Harrison Waters (19:48):
Wow, that's great. Yeah. And is this
something that a lot of ourcooperative systems will, would
have for, for others or do theyneed to go outside and , you
know, maybe look for thissomewhere else? You know,
Chris Williams (19:58):
A majority of of the cooperatives have b p i
certified professionals withinthe cooperative family or, or
they can definitely help locatesomeone that can perform these
type of tests .
Harrison Waters (20:11):
Great. Now, you know, we've mentioned a lot
about addicts. Is thereanything that, you know,
listeners need to know aboutother areas? Possibly crawl
spaces or other ways toinsulate?
Chris Williams (20:23):
Yeah. Yeah, there's so many types of homes
out there and crawlspace is, isa real big factor in
conditioned air escaping. Uh ,you've got lots of areas where
duct work can be underneaththe, in the crawl space or in
the attic. We really alwaysfocus on how do we insulate
(20:45):
that duct work ? How do weprevent animals or certain ,
uh, issues from, from tearinginto that duct work . So that's
something you should alwayscheck. We've, we've had homes
where we went underneath thehome and had some rodents under
there keeping, keeping warm orkeeping cool because the , uh,
duct work has , has come apartand , uh, insulating the bottom
(21:07):
of the , or blowing out on thebottom of the house. So
unfortunate, but, but we see itquite a bit
Harrison Waters (21:13):
Yeah, I never would've thoughtabout that. I mean, ha have
things changed over the yearsin how every how energy
services, what they think ofcrawlspace areas and whether
they need to be insulated orthe airflow? Cuz I know, you
know, everyone likely has someof these , uh, air vents that
allow air in and out of crawlspaces . Is that something
(21:35):
that, you know, members need tobe aware of?
Chris Williams (21:38):
Yeah, and and I would really, I would check
with local codes cuz there are, uh, there are certain
restrictions , uh, once you getunder ho a home and, and
getting that fresh air intothat area, A lot of areas you
do have to put plastic down,make sure there's a , a barrier
from keeping the soil fromleaking up leeching bad air up
(22:00):
into the home. So , uh, that'sdefinitely something. Check
with your codes, check withlocal building inspectors for
that type of in information.
Harrison Waters (22:10):
Okay. That's great to know. Yeah, I've, I've
had a house previously thatrequired a vapor barrier and it
was missing in a section andyou know, the co uh, inspection
caught that and I was requiredto go in and finish that vapor
barrier all the way across. ButI know my, my current residency
does not have that. So , um,I'm just curious of, you know,
like you said, making sure thateveryone follows up with that
(22:32):
code and knowing what theirarea , um, requires. Yeah,
Chris Williams (22:36):
Very good point.
Harrison Waters (22:37):
And I've had, you know, had my last house
inspected with the thermal andI love that that stuff gets me
like super excited to see, youknow, hot cold areas, areas
where, you know, I think wherethey add all of the , the areas
up and they kind of give youthis information. People don't
realize if you've got a littlebit of air gaps across your
(22:57):
house, it may add up to a sizeof a small window of air loss
through your house.
Chris Williams (23:02):
You're exactly right. Yeah. It's not, not
untypical to have three orfour, a three or four foot hole
in the Saudi of your house onceyou calculate all the leaks,
leave it open all day. That's,that's pretty much what the
leaks have added up to , so ,
Harrison Waters (23:18):
Yeah. Yeah .
And that's, it's, it's veryconcerning when you think of it
like that. If you, if someonesays you've got an inch gap
here and a small inch gapthere, it's one thing, but then
to think that you could have athree or four foot goal , you
know, gap in your house is abig, big difference.
Chris Williams (23:34):
That's so true.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's , that'swhat that board or will really
calculate. And like I said,that infrared gun is so
important cause like you can'tsee certain, you can't see
through walls and, but you candefinitely see where, hey, that
part of my roof doesn't haveinsulation because mm-hmm .
(23:55):
winter out, you can really tellthe difference this time of
year because there's such adelta in that difference in
cool to to heat. So youwouldn't see it this time of
year.
Harrison Waters (24:06):
Yeah. Well I certainly recommend purchasing
an infrared laser thermometerfrom your local hardware store.
And if you go to certain areasin your home and you test it
from close up , you can go fromtesting the wall temperature to
the floor temperature to thewindow and start to see how
drastic of a difference or, oreven your , um, you know, the,
(24:28):
your vents across the house ifyour , your hvac if the heat
is, is distributing, you know,the right amount of temperature
across the house makes adifference. Yeah,
Chris Williams (24:37):
That's right.
That's right. I know even, youknow, I've got an Eco B
thermostat and we just got alittle sensor that we keep on
the other side of the house andit's trying to keep it, you
know, consistent
calls for more heat back here.
So yeah. That , that soundslike a real good tool.
Harrison Waters (24:56):
You know, I think that it's important to
find those areas of, of airloss in your home. Is there any
concern of making your housetoo tight? Is there, you know,
you mentioned before if youhave propane or gas, if you've
checked to see that those areproperly ventilated in your
home. I , is there an issuewith making it too tight , uh,
to keep it, you know, your airinside, you know , in
Chris Williams (25:18):
Yes. Un unfortunately you can make a ,
a home too tight if you havepropane or natural or natural
gas wood heat. There's certain, uh, toxins in, in those , uh,
types of heating that need toescape the home, so mm-hmm.
(25:39):
uh, make sure you do haveplenty of fresh air coming into
the house. Uh , we recently inone of the communities that we
serve, the code has beenincreased and it's really
pushing those, the builders inthat area to look at more
electric water, heat , electricsystems or if they don't,
they're gonna have to put freshair fans in the homes to
(26:03):
actually circulate that airout. So , uh, we're seeing a
lot of, lot of changes in, indifferent codes. So something
to pay attention to. Yeah,
Harrison Waters (26:13):
That's great.
I appreciate that. You bet .
Yeah, I wondered if that wassomething too, I know that's
not in the insulation, so Ididn't bring anything like that
up, but I also thought aboutthe opposite where everyone
thinks insulation for winter,right? They don't think
insulation for summer, but youknow, when you've got heat
outside and you've got cold airinside and insulation plays a
(26:34):
pretty good role at that pointto keep that air condition that
you're paying for inside yourhome.
Chris Williams (26:39):
Oh yeah. Yep , that's right. That envelope
needs to be
out for sure.
Harrison Waters (26:48):
Okay, wonderful. Well these are all
great things, you know, membersshould keep in mind to stay
safe when they're working on aninstallation project. And you
know, Chris, you've given ourlisteners just a lot of great
information to get started andmaybe where could they go to
find out more information ifthey wanna, you know, maybe
dive a little bit deeper aboutthis?
Chris Williams (27:06):
Yeah, you bet.
First thing I always mention,you know , go to your local
electric cooperative and theyalways have some great
information on the website oryou can even call the , uh,
electric cooperative and visitwith a member for Energy
Service representative. You canalso reference the Take Control
and Save website has greatinformation on there , as well
(27:29):
as the energy.gov Energy Saverswebsite. Perfect.
Harrison Waters (27:34):
Well thank you so much Chris for joining me
today. Uh, is there anythingelse you'd like to add for our
listeners?
Chris Williams (27:39):
Definitely a little bit of money will go a
long ways. Uh , we get thatpayback pretty quick when you
start trying to seal up yourhome a little bit so it helps
with that electric bill helpswith comfort and savings. So
definitely been a pleasurevisiting with you today,
Harrison . And , uh, welcome toCooperative Family
Harrison Waters (27:58):
Likewise. Thank you so much.
Well, you know, I hope ourmembers can use these tips to
save energy and money to staycomfortable in their home this
winter and for years to come.
So thanks for joining us.
Chris Williams (28:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Thanks for listening to The Power for Your Life
Podcast. To learn more aboutthis topic and other safety,
efficiency and energytechnology information, contact
your local electric cooperativeor visit us on the web at
members first dot co-op. Youcan also follow us on social
(28:31):
media at facebook.com/membersfirst cooperatives
pinterest.com/members first orinstagram.com/members. First ,
if you have a question or topicyou would like us to consider
for an upcoming episode, emailus at members first@aeci.org .
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