November 10, 2025 • 31 mins
You’re marketing your face off… but where are the sales?
In this episode, Sales Growth Strategist Tam Smith joins me for a much-needed conversation about the missing piece in so many entrepreneurs’ businesses: actual sales strategy.
Tam breaks down why visibility alone doesn’t lead to revenue and how so many entrepreneurs confuse consistent content with selling - when in reality, they’re just warming people up with no next step.
We talk about how to shift your mindset from “I hate selling” to “sales is service,” and how to make simple, intentional moves that create momentum without sleazy pitches or high-pressure tactics.
In this episode, we cover:
- Why your marketing efforts might not be converting and how to fix it using Tam's 3-2-2 method for simple, non-sleazy daily sales activity
- The difference between building awareness and actually inviting people to work with you
- The 90-day rule for sales results (and why you're probably giving up too soon)
If you’ve ever said, “I’m doing all the things but no one is buying,” this episode is your roadmap to doing fewer things better - with more intention and more sales.
Links & References:
- Want more ways to market yourself and practice having sales convos? Join us at the next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For faster business growth through networking, strategy and accountability, check out the Powerful Women Rising Business Growth Community!
- Download Tam's free VIP Power Hour guide to learn how to build a daily sales habit that creates consistent, high-quality leads without the overwhelm.
- Learn more about Tam: https://studiothree49.com
- Listen to the Sales as Service podcast
- Connect with Tam on LinkedIn or Instagram
- Mentioned in this Episode: Go-Givers Sell More by Bob Burg and John David Mann
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two dogs, her soul cat Giorgio and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Hello, Tam.
Welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Yeah, so excited for our chat today about sales and
marketing and all of the thingsin between.
Before we dive in, telleverybody just a little bit
about you and about what you do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm Tam Smith.
I am a sales growth strategistand the founder of Studio 349
Sales Marketing.
And I help female founders,female agency owners,
service-based founders find,connect with, and convert right
fit clients through what I liketo call scalable, sustainable
sales systems.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Awesome.
And how long have you been doingthis work?
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
I have been doing sales and business development
my whole career, 15 plus years.
My entrepreneurial experiencestarted.
I'm the product of COVID.
I would love to believe that itdid not take what at that time
was a family health crisisindependent of COVID, a global
pandemic, for me to start abusiness, but that's how it
(01:00):
happened.
Actually, started the businessas a virtual assistant.
You know, needed something thatwasn't location specific.
And in my corporate career, myuh business card has said
everything from administrativeassistant all the way up to
director of residential saleswhen I exited uh the end of
2019.
Uh so started the business as avirtual assistant.
(01:23):
Um, the climate we were induring COVID, uh, businesses
that either didn't have or hadnot been paying attention to
their online presence were, youknow, freaking out.
Uh, you know, what are we goingto do?
And with my background largelyin, you know, sales marketing
and business development, that'smuch of the work I was getting.
So 2022, uh, I rebranded, well,I should say I did a formal
(01:47):
launch and upgraded fromsomething beyond the you know
the DIY website I did over aweekend when I launched the
business and uh launched tofocus just exclusively on
digital marketing.
And uh about a year ago, um, Itotal transparency, I was on the
fast track to burnout.
Um, I had said yes toeverything.
(02:08):
Uh, and from the outside in, youknow, it probably, you know,
looked, oh, you know, TAM's, youknow, running a you know,
successful business.
On the inside, it felt like Iwas doing a really poor job at a
lot of stuff.
Um, and I was had startedworking with a business coach,
uh, which I highly recommend toanyone listening because it's
(02:28):
really hard to read the labelfrom inside the bottle.
And uh in our early engagementworking together, she was the
one um that actually said, youknow, unless you're really
committed to trying to build outthis marketing agency, it sounds
like you really want to be doingsomething in sales and business
development.
And I started laughing and Isaid, Well, I can find the
business if I could just freemyself up to find the business.
(02:51):
And she was the one that said,Well, damn, that's a business.
So it really, you know, it's umthat thing that, you know, we
tend to dismiss the thing thatcomes uh, I guess, with some
ease and flow.
You know, I'm still, I guess,kind of working myself out of
the idea that success equalssuffering, um, and that has to
(03:13):
be hard to have value.
Uh, so, you know, a year in, I'mnow focused exclusively on uh
the sales and business likecreating opportunity, if you
will, and helping other peopledo that too.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
Yeah, that's awesome.
This is such a timelyconversation.
We I just came from themastermind call in the Powerful
Women Rising community.
And one of the things we weretalking about, we were laughing
because half the time ourmembers will show up with
something that they want helpwith.
And about five to 10 minutesinto it, they're like, okay,
never mind.
I'm not even doing that anymore.
You know, they'll come like, Ineeded LinkedIn strategy, and we
(03:44):
start talking about it.
And five minutes in, they'relike, Okay, actually, I don't
know why I thought I needed tobe on LinkedIn.
Never mind.
We were just talking to somebodywho she had celebrated at the
beginning that she'd created acustom GPT to help people with
their SOPs, and it was reallycool and blah, blah, blah.
And so what she wanted help within the mastermind was I have
these three webinar ideas to youdo this webinar as a lead
(04:06):
magnet.
And which of these three do youthink is the best lead magnet?
And blah, blah, blah.
And finally, somebody was like,Why aren't you just using your
custom GPT as a lead magnet?
And she was like, That's a greatquestion.
Like, why are why do weovercomplicate so much?
It's crazy.
Okay, so one of the reasons thatI wanted to have you on the
podcast, I knew that you and Iwere very aligned with a lot of
(04:29):
things.
And the way that you talk aboutmarketing is you talk about
building the room or you talkabout sales as like starting the
conversation.
And I just love that so muchbecause that's one of the things
that I say to the women in thepowerful woman rights in
community a lot too, whenthey're like, I'm just bad at
sales.
I'm like, let's talk about everymoment in your life that you
(04:49):
actually are really good atsales, right?
Like when your husband comeshome and you guys are planning
on having leftovers for dinner,but you really, really want
Chinese.
Like that's sales, right?
But really, all it is is youhaving a conversation with him.
And it doesn't have to bemanipulative.
It doesn't have to be like, I'vealready figured out what his
(05:10):
objections are going to be toordering Chinese and I'm ready
to overcome his objections.
Like, it's not all of thisstuff, it's just a conversation.
So talk to us a little bit aboutthe relationship between
marketing and sales, how they'redifferent, and what you mean
when you talk about building theroom versus starting the
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
Yep, absolutely.
Um, you know, I the question Ilike to ask to you know your
audience and to the people Iwork with, you know, if referral
your referrals drought uptomorrow, uh, would you still,
you know, have leads coming in,you know, 30 days from now?
And referrals are great.
Like it's just the, I mean, itmeans you've got something
proven.
You know, it's working, uh,you're doing the thing.
(05:50):
Uh the challenge with that isit's not predictable.
You know, you're you're kind ofstuck waiting.
Um, and it's definitely notscalable.
Um, so when we look at, youknow, sales and marketing, um,
it's not an either-or.
You know, I like to to think ofthem when you're working in
partnership.
Uh marketing helps you get seenand remembered and understood.
(06:13):
Sales turns that attention intoopportunity.
Um, and you know, I'll just likeshare my own story.
You know, I've definitelystruggled early in my sales
career with what I think, youknow, as female business owners,
female founders, we we we'vebeen, we've been the recipient
of some bad sales conversations.
You know, we've been on thereceiving end of, you know, what
(06:37):
the traditional association withsales, where it's that, you
know, pushy, manipulative, verytransactional, very forced.
Um, and you know, where do wejust don't relate to that?
You know, we we we don't want touh we don't want to be the
recipient of that.
And we definitely, you know,don't want to be the one serving
that up to someone that we wantto work with.
(06:58):
And so we don't do it.
Um, and early in my career, youknow, I was coming, my mindset
around the term sales was that'swhat I associated with.
And I thought I was a quoteunquote bad salesperson because
I didn't relate to that.
That's not, I was very focusedon how can I serve and solve.
And I, you know, it took someoneactually gave me the book, and I
(07:21):
highly recommend it.
It's a great read, which reallyI felt validated, I felt seen,
but it's go givers sell more.
And it was the, I don't know ifyou've if you've read it or
familiar with it, but um greatread.
And I felt like I said, I readit and I just wanted to like
like shout from the rooftops.
I someone sees me, I feel heardbecause it at the end of the
day, we're um the mindset youapproach it with, you know, it
(07:44):
changes everything.
And it's like, how can I serveand solve?
And if you've got you know aservice or a solution that can
help someone achieve a goal orsolve a problem, you know, I'm
of the opinion that, you know,we have a responsibility to
share that.
And we're not trying to sellanything, you know, we're simply
trying to, you know, educatethat uh individual on making the
(08:04):
best decision for them.
So um I heard it said that we'renot salespeople, we're the um uh
the chief, I think it's thedecision makers, decision maker
helpers, if you will.
You know, we're just helpingsomeone make a decision.
But a very long answer to yourquestion, I feel like we get
stuck in the either or.
Um, you know, marketing, we'revery, you know, comfortable with
(08:27):
uh posting, you know, the beingbeing visible and then it stops.
And you know, the sales end ofit were resistant because we
don't want to be perceived as ayou know, as a gross, sleazy
salesperson.
Um, but they're really intendedto work together.
And I have um having worked onboth sides of it, you know,
having worked deeply on themarketing side of it, um I know
(08:51):
uh I knew how valuable havingthat consistent visible presence
is in the uh climate that we'rein today.
I knew how valuable that was,but it really wasn't until I got
now within this last year, youknow, focused on the sales end
of things, like how important itis to have both to work
together.
Uh marketing, um you're leftwaiting, you know, for that
(09:16):
inbound inquiry, which if you doit well, you're gonna get.
But I'm a huge advocate of youknow, being able to, while
you're waiting, be able toproactively initiate and start
those conversations so you cancreate your own opportunity.
And it's a it's a whole kind ofenvironment ecosystem, if you
will, that it's really intendedto support each other.
Yeah.
(09:36):
Again, very long answer to yourquestion.
Well, it was a very longquestion, so it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
I love the distinction you're making,
though, between marketing andsales, because I I think we
think of them, I hear peopletalk a lot about them together,
right?
I do marketing and sales.
I do sales and marketing, salesand marketing, marketing and
sales.
And there are people who, youknow, specialize in helping
people with one or the other,but I think so often for like
(10:02):
the average business owner,marketing and sales are the same
thing, right?
And so I what I see a lot in thewomen that I work with is
they're all over the marketing,right?
They're posting on social media,they're emailing their list,
they're providing value, they'regoing to networking events and
connecting with people andthey're doing all of this stuff
(10:22):
to increase their visibility, tobring people into their
audience.
They're doing great, but thenthey're like, why am I not
making any money?
Right.
And I think it's because they'remissing that distinction between
marketing and sales.
They think because they aremarketing, the sales should be
coming automatically.
So for those people who arelistening to this that are like,
(10:43):
yes, that's 100% what I'm doing.
How do you suggest they startbringing more sales in?
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
I wish I had the silver bullet.
And the silver bullet is there'sno silver bullet.
It's just a practice.
It is just a daily disciplineand practice and simply building
that into your daily, weeklyroutine.
Uh, and it I'll let me back upand say I kind of think of it in
three phases.
Um, a lot of the women that Iwork with, they're coming to me
(11:12):
at kind of one of two inflectionpoints.
You know, they've, again,they've they've built a solid
business based on referral, butone of two things has happened.
They've had a, you know, a largeclient has moved off and they
they don't have anything inplace to fill that, or they're
at that stage where, hey, youknow, they're ready to to grow
and scale and move to that nextlevel.
And again, there's no process.
(11:34):
So again, I wish that couldthere was something I could say
that, you know, you insert thisin and it's going to be like,
you know, a double digitincrease overnight, but it
really is just the micro dailymicro actions that you take to
move that needle.
But I set that up to say a lotof us when we've started our
businesses, we've um, and Ithink, you know, to a certain
degree early stage, you have to,we've said yes to everything.
(11:57):
And to be able to, you know,proactively initiate and start a
conversation.
I'm not, you know, I knoweverybody gets really nervous
when they hear the idea ofsomeone advocating they need to
niche down or get focused.
But for the purposes ofinitiating and starting
conversation and being able toproactively uh um initiate
(12:18):
business growth, for thatmessaging, just think of, you
know, and ask your eye, think ofthat that one client or that one
project that you did.
That if, and I'm not saying thisis all you're ever going to do
for the rest of your business,but if that's all you did, who
is that?
You know, what is that work?
And get really, really focusedon the profile of who that that
(12:39):
client is and the problem you'resolving, that you can go start
more of those sameconversations.
And then once you've done that,it really is just there's so
many tools like pick your wherewhere's the sandbox?
Where are they playing?
And then it it really goes back,like you're the way you
advocate, you know, uh businessbuilding with you know, it's
(13:00):
just making connections andstarting conversations and
building relationships to createopportunity.
And that doesn't happenovernight, it's just a daily
micro action.
So, you know, once you've gotthat, you know, profile of that,
you know, again, that one personthat you want to start a
conversation with, find outwhere they're playing and get in
the room and then just be ableto say, like, I I heard this is
(13:21):
not an original quote, but I'mgonna steal it.
That uh, you know, sales reallyis like half the world is
waiting for the other half, orthe half of the room is waiting
for the other room to say hi.
Just be the first to say helloin a way that feels natural uh
and comfortable to you.
Um so yeah, once you've kind ofvalidated that audience pro or
that that client profile, youknow, you're able to work that
(13:43):
into your messaging and themarketing things that you're
using to support your business.
Um and it hopefully that willdrive some more of those inbound
conversations.
But in the meantime, being ableto day on in the daily just
practically initiate thoseconversations.
I I practice what I call like a322 method, if you will.
(14:03):
Um, and this is what I foundwhen I talk about, you know,
sustainable practice.
Where your chosen platform is,wherever your client is is
living and playing, orprospective client is living and
playing, that could be you know,Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,
whatever that platform is, it'slike where can you contribute to
the conversation and drop threecomments on your ideal client's
(14:29):
content that they're posting andjust engage in the conversation?
And then two proactive outreachmessages: one to someone new
that you want to start arelationship with, and then
someone else that's already inyour network that could be a
past client, a referral partner,potential collaborator that
you're just staying visible butproactively uh start again,
(14:50):
building that relationship andnurturing.
And I that's where mindset comesin too.
Uh, because a lot of people,well, I'll I'll even use again
myself as an example.
Early in my sales career, I canremember my first like full
commission sales job.
And I was fortunate to besitting between the two of the
highest performing sales womenin the company.
(15:13):
And white nut, I was just, youknow, white knuckling how am I
gonna make, you know, make myforecast this month.
And uh my the one Nancy GDsitting next to me, shout out to
Nancy GD.
She said, Tam, you know, you gotyou gotta let go of the focus on
the number because when you getfocused on the number, you push
it further away.
When you focus on the client infront of you, and the this
(15:35):
you're doing all the rightthings.
Plan to work, work to plan, andthe numbers will come.
So I think that again, thatmindset you start those
conversations, don't go into itwith that trying to close a
deal.
You know, one of sure it may endup being a client, or it could
be a great referral partner,collaborator, or just like a
really smart conversation thatpoints you to the next right
(15:55):
thing to do in your business togrow.
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think again, we try toovercomplicate things, right?
And so we think if I'm gonnamake sales, if I'm gonna turn my
marketing into sales, then Ineed this big complicated
funnel.
I need, you know, some sort of,we were just talking about
tripwires on the mastermind.
And everybody was like, Wheredid that phrase even come from?
I'm like, I don't know.
Just like, you know, whensomebody gets your free thing
(16:20):
and you're like, oh, if you lovemy free thing, you could also
add this thing for sevendollars, you know.
Like, so I need a freebie andthen I need a tripwire, and then
I need an email sequence tofunnel those people through.
And then after that, I need themto go here and do this.
And I can't do that unless Ihave the sales page set up.
And when I set up my sales page,I'm gonna need somewhere for
them to go to do this, this, andthis.
And we wait until we have all ofthose 50 million things, then we
(16:44):
can start selling, right?
But actually, and this is one ofthe reasons I started this
business, is to get people torealize like, I feel like so
often we're doing thingsbackwards.
We build the, we get thepictures taken, we build the
website, we get the logo, we doall of the things, right?
And then, because we think weneed all those things to start
selling.
(17:04):
What you really need to startselling is to know who you're
selling to, what their problemis, how you're gonna solve their
problem, and then start havingconversations with people.
unknown (17:14):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
That's it.
Everything you're describing, wespend way too much time setting
the table.
We just need to sit down andstart eating.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yes, yes.
And once you have thoseconversations, right, once
you're starting to do thosethings, that's when you're gonna
start bringing money in.
And then you can use that moneyto put the frosting on the cake,
right?
Like we want to get the frostingfirst and learn how to make.
I I have the weirdest metaphors,so we're just gonna go with it.
(17:43):
We want the frosting first andwe want to learn how to make the
like icing flowers and all ofthe fancy icing things, right?
And we do all those, and thenwe're like, well, shit, I don't
have a cake to put this on.
But and we like to do thatbecause that's the sexy part,
right?
Like, that's the part thateverybody sees that's like, oh,
look at her.
She's like a real businesswoman.
(18:04):
She's her, she's got icing, sheknows how to make flowers, she
knows how to do all thesethings, and that makes our
imposter syndrome feel good.
It makes us feel good becausenow everybody else is looking at
us and like, oh, she's legit,she knows how to make frosting
flowers.
But then we realize like thosefrosting flowers are not on a
cake.
We don't even have a cake.
So we start backwards, we do thenon-sexy part of baking a cake,
(18:29):
and then at least we havesomething to live off of while
we learn how to make frostingflowers.
SPEAKER_00 (18:34):
Yeah, and and I will say metaphor, sort of.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
I I like that.
I followed it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
I'm I'm with you.
Thank you.
I'll say statistically speaking,it takes about 90 days.
Like what you are doing now isgonna show up 90 days from now.
So don't delay.
Like if you're listening to thisand there's like one one action
item you could take from this,is identify, you know, two
people today or tomorrow, youknow, one new connection that
(19:00):
you know, and it necessarily belike just someone you admire
that's doing something, youknow, interesting that is, you
know, you've gotten some benefitout of in your business, that
you just want to, what is it?
The you know you're the sum ofthe the six people you you
surround yourself with.
So, you know, expanding yournetwork to someone you want to
know and then look at yourexisting network, you know, like
I said, past client uh that youhaven't reached out to in a
(19:23):
while, uh, you know, referralpartner, collaborator, or just
you know, someone in your aconnection that's already in
your network just to reach outand get in touch with um is what
you are doing today is gonnashow up 90 days from now.
So every day you delay it justpushes that next, that next
client out, you know, about 90days further.
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think too, you know, wetalk a lot about on this podcast
about how to not be a salesyweirdo.
And I think sometimes peoplethink if I'm reaching out to
someone new or I'm reaching outto somebody I haven't had a
conversation with in a while,I'm gonna come across as a
salesy weirdo.
And I think the biggestdistinguisher of that is like
(20:02):
what is your intention inreaching out to them, right?
Because if I've never met youbefore, or I just like met you
at this one networking event andI'm like, hey, Tam, great to see
you at this networking event.
I would love to do a 30-minute,I don't know what I do.
I'll just make something up.
I would love to provide you, Iwould love to offer you a
30-minute website audit and giveyou my thoughts on your website,
(20:24):
right?
Just I just want to do this, youknow, just to connect with you
and just to be nice and it'd bereally great, right?
Like, okay, salesy weirdo,because unless you were born
yesterday, we know you're notjust doing a website audit out
of the goodness of your heart,right?
Like, thank you.
And also no.
And if you're reaching out tosomebody like a former client or
something like that, you're notreaching out to them to say,
(20:45):
like, hey, you haven't given meany money in the last six
months.
Are you interested in giving mesome money now?
unknown (20:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
But both of those, that's the pitch slap, which
that's I'm on a mission to endthat.
That's exactly what you don'twant to do.
SPEAKER_01 (20:59):
Yes.
So how do we want to start thoseconversations?
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
It takes, I mean, 30 seconds.
I mean, with their tools andresources that we have at our
disposal today to, you know, Imean, you look at someone's
social feed, you know, Googlesearch to see if they have any
news, press announcements.
You know, people just want tofeel seen and supported and know
that they matter and they'revaluable and it's about, you
know, them and not you.
And from a genuine way, like youcan always extend, you know,
(21:28):
recognition to someone, youknow, for something they've
accomplished in their business.
You can always say thank you.
You can always offer a valuableresource that can support them
in their business and the nextmove that you know may or may
not include you.
But you're so right.
It's the mindset and theintention.
And to go at it from a place ofgenuine, like goes back to that,
you know, I my whole mantra ofsales is an act of service.
(21:50):
It's about what you give, notwhat you get.
And when you serve well, the ROIalways follows.
And I have yet to find that notto be true.
So from the intention of, it'slike, you know, you give a gift,
it's not with the expectationyou're gonna get get anything
back.
So really doing it from thatintention of uh just a genuine
intention to support and serveand and be of be of value.
(22:14):
And when you do that, it it justit comes back.
I have repeated myself, but Ihave yet to see that knot come
back on itself.
And I will point out it may notto get all woo, but you know, it
may not be from that person orindividual, but it'll be
something out of left field thatyou didn't even expect.
But it's the momentum, you know,that you put out there that it
(22:35):
comes back to you in more waysthan you can imagine.
Yeah, I totally agree.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Yeah.
Okay, so we need to wrap uppretty soon.
I this is, I mean, sales andmarketing is such a huge topic.
We could go on forever.
But this is my last question foryou.
If somebody is listening to thisand they're like, this all
sounds great, um, but I hatesales, I'm bad at marketing, and
uh I but also I'm not abillionaire, so I won't be
(23:04):
hiring someone else to do mysales and marketing.
Where can they start today?
Like, is there a mindset shift?
Is there like you mentioned, youknow, reaching out to a couple
different people and juststarting conversations?
What do you recommend for thepeople who are listening who are
feeling like that?
SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
I I hear you, I've been you.
And and depending on the day,I'm st I still am you.
Uh and it I'm this is kind of myhot take.
I don't believe that there isany, there's a such a thing as a
sales expert.
There are, you know, there's alot of people out there that
have lots and lots of practice.
(23:41):
Uh, and that's that's allthey're just more practice than
you.
And you know, pick and also, youknow, we're overwhelmed at the
messaging that we have to doevery be everywhere and do
everything.
And yes, all of those thingswork, but what what's gonna is
the thing that you can show upand do uh consistently.
(24:03):
So start small, you know, pickone one thing that and uh that
feels true to you that and youryour business and the client
that you're serving and startthere.
And I can't say that there's notgonna be um, you know, it like
starting anything new, you know.
(24:23):
I hate to use, you know, in anexercise metaphor, any, any new,
you know, anything new you'vetaken on, there's always gonna
be some level of discomfort.
And and I I feel it, you know,any any in my own business, you
know, I mean, I still like anyI've had uh you know career
sales and I still get anxietybefore sales conversations.
(24:45):
Um, but it's just with practiceand repetition, it does get
easier.
So I'd say just start small uhand pick one thing and what that
you can do repeatedly and pourgas on it.
Love that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:58):
Yeah.
Okay.
So if people are listening,they're loving you because why
wouldn't they?
They want to know more aboutwhat you do, how you might be
able to help them, whatever yougot going on.
What are some good ways for themto connect with you?
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Absolutely.
Um, you can find me uh LinkedInand the Sales and Service
Podcast is where I'm I'm hangingout most of the time.
Uh, you can also find me on mywebsite, studio349.com.
Uh, and I invite, again, talkingabout daily practices that can
uh make, you know, kind of giveyou a starting point and give
(25:31):
you some, you know, dailypractices you can implement in
your own business.
Uh, go to studio349.com slashfreebies and download the VIP
power hour.
And that'll give you somepractical, like daily
disciplines that you can startto work in and proactively
generate more leads and businessopportunities for your business.
Awesome.
That's brilliant.
SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
Okay, I will put the links for all of those in the
show notes so people can clickon those and connect with you.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
It was great chatting with you.
I knew we were gonna love eachother and have a million things
to talk about, and we did.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
So thank thank you so much for the invitation.
Like I told you, I I I'm afangirl and I've gotten so much,
you know, out of your, you know,podcasting content and uh to be
able to be a guest on here.
I just um it's a it's acompliment and I'm glad to be
here.
Awesome.
Thank you.
I'm so glad to have you.
Awesome.
Hello, Tam.
Welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Yeah, so excited for our chat today about sales and
marketing and all of the thingsin between.
Before we dive in, telleverybody just a little bit
about you and about what you do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm Tam Smith.
I am a sales growth strategistand the founder of Studio 349
Sales Marketing.
And I help female founders,female agency owners,
service-based founders find,connect with, and convert right
fit clients through what I liketo call scalable, sustainable
sales systems.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Awesome.
And how long have you been doingthis work?
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
I have been doing sales and business development
my whole career, 15 plus years.
My entrepreneurial experiencestarted.
I'm the product of COVID.
I would love to believe that itdid not take what at that time
was a family health crisisindependent of COVID, a global
pandemic, for me to start abusiness, but that's how it
(01:00):
happened.
Actually, started the businessas a virtual assistant.
You know, needed something thatwasn't location specific.
And in my corporate career, myuh business card has said
everything from administrativeassistant all the way up to
director of residential saleswhen I exited uh the end of
2019.
Uh so started the business as avirtual assistant.
(01:23):
Um, the climate we were induring COVID, uh, businesses
that either didn't have or hadnot been paying attention to
their online presence were, youknow, freaking out.
Uh, you know, what are we goingto do?
And with my background largelyin, you know, sales marketing
and business development, that'smuch of the work I was getting.
So 2022, uh, I rebranded, well,I should say I did a formal
(01:47):
launch and upgraded fromsomething beyond the you know
the DIY website I did over aweekend when I launched the
business and uh launched tofocus just exclusively on
digital marketing.
And uh about a year ago, um, Itotal transparency, I was on the
fast track to burnout.
Um, I had said yes toeverything.
(02:08):
Uh, and from the outside in, youknow, it probably, you know,
looked, oh, you know, TAM's, youknow, running a you know,
successful business.
On the inside, it felt like Iwas doing a really poor job at a
lot of stuff.
Um, and I was had startedworking with a business coach,
uh, which I highly recommend toanyone listening because it's
(02:28):
really hard to read the labelfrom inside the bottle.
And uh in our early engagementworking together, she was the
one um that actually said, youknow, unless you're really
committed to trying to build outthis marketing agency, it sounds
like you really want to be doingsomething in sales and business
development.
And I started laughing and Isaid, Well, I can find the
business if I could just freemyself up to find the business.
(02:51):
And she was the one that said,Well, damn, that's a business.
So it really, you know, it's umthat thing that, you know, we
tend to dismiss the thing thatcomes uh, I guess, with some
ease and flow.
You know, I'm still, I guess,kind of working myself out of
the idea that success equalssuffering, um, and that has to
(03:13):
be hard to have value.
Uh, so, you know, a year in, I'mnow focused exclusively on uh
the sales and business likecreating opportunity, if you
will, and helping other peopledo that too.
SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
Yeah, that's awesome.
This is such a timelyconversation.
We I just came from themastermind call in the Powerful
Women Rising community.
And one of the things we weretalking about, we were laughing
because half the time ourmembers will show up with
something that they want helpwith.
And about five to 10 minutesinto it, they're like, okay,
never mind.
I'm not even doing that anymore.
You know, they'll come like, Ineeded LinkedIn strategy, and we
(03:44):
start talking about it.
And five minutes in, they'relike, Okay, actually, I don't
know why I thought I needed tobe on LinkedIn.
Never mind.
We were just talking to somebodywho she had celebrated at the
beginning that she'd created acustom GPT to help people with
their SOPs, and it was reallycool and blah, blah, blah.
And so what she wanted help within the mastermind was I have
these three webinar ideas to youdo this webinar as a lead
(04:06):
magnet.
And which of these three do youthink is the best lead magnet?
And blah, blah, blah.
And finally, somebody was like,Why aren't you just using your
custom GPT as a lead magnet?
And she was like, That's a greatquestion.
Like, why are why do weovercomplicate so much?
It's crazy.
Okay, so one of the reasons thatI wanted to have you on the
podcast, I knew that you and Iwere very aligned with a lot of
(04:29):
things.
And the way that you talk aboutmarketing is you talk about
building the room or you talkabout sales as like starting the
conversation.
And I just love that so muchbecause that's one of the things
that I say to the women in thepowerful woman rights in
community a lot too, whenthey're like, I'm just bad at
sales.
I'm like, let's talk about everymoment in your life that you
(04:49):
actually are really good atsales, right?
Like when your husband comeshome and you guys are planning
on having leftovers for dinner,but you really, really want
Chinese.
Like that's sales, right?
But really, all it is is youhaving a conversation with him.
And it doesn't have to bemanipulative.
It doesn't have to be like, I'vealready figured out what his
(05:10):
objections are going to be toordering Chinese and I'm ready
to overcome his objections.
Like, it's not all of thisstuff, it's just a conversation.
So talk to us a little bit aboutthe relationship between
marketing and sales, how they'redifferent, and what you mean
when you talk about building theroom versus starting the
conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
Yep, absolutely.
Um, you know, I the question Ilike to ask to you know your
audience and to the people Iwork with, you know, if referral
your referrals drought uptomorrow, uh, would you still,
you know, have leads coming in,you know, 30 days from now?
And referrals are great.
Like it's just the, I mean, itmeans you've got something
proven.
You know, it's working, uh,you're doing the thing.
(05:50):
Uh the challenge with that isit's not predictable.
You know, you're you're kind ofstuck waiting.
Um, and it's definitely notscalable.
Um, so when we look at, youknow, sales and marketing, um,
it's not an either-or.
You know, I like to to think ofthem when you're working in
partnership.
Uh marketing helps you get seenand remembered and understood.
(06:13):
Sales turns that attention intoopportunity.
Um, and you know, I'll just likeshare my own story.
You know, I've definitelystruggled early in my sales
career with what I think, youknow, as female business owners,
female founders, we we we'vebeen, we've been the recipient
of some bad sales conversations.
You know, we've been on thereceiving end of, you know, what
(06:37):
the traditional association withsales, where it's that, you
know, pushy, manipulative, verytransactional, very forced.
Um, and you know, where do wejust don't relate to that?
You know, we we we don't want touh we don't want to be the
recipient of that.
And we definitely, you know,don't want to be the one serving
that up to someone that we wantto work with.
(06:58):
And so we don't do it.
Um, and early in my career, youknow, I was coming, my mindset
around the term sales was that'swhat I associated with.
And I thought I was a quoteunquote bad salesperson because
I didn't relate to that.
That's not, I was very focusedon how can I serve and solve.
And I, you know, it took someoneactually gave me the book, and I
(07:21):
highly recommend it.
It's a great read, which reallyI felt validated, I felt seen,
but it's go givers sell more.
And it was the, I don't know ifyou've if you've read it or
familiar with it, but um greatread.
And I felt like I said, I readit and I just wanted to like
like shout from the rooftops.
I someone sees me, I feel heardbecause it at the end of the
day, we're um the mindset youapproach it with, you know, it
(07:44):
changes everything.
And it's like, how can I serveand solve?
And if you've got you know aservice or a solution that can
help someone achieve a goal orsolve a problem, you know, I'm
of the opinion that, you know,we have a responsibility to
share that.
And we're not trying to sellanything, you know, we're simply
trying to, you know, educatethat uh individual on making the
(08:04):
best decision for them.
So um I heard it said that we'renot salespeople, we're the um uh
the chief, I think it's thedecision makers, decision maker
helpers, if you will.
You know, we're just helpingsomeone make a decision.
But a very long answer to yourquestion, I feel like we get
stuck in the either or.
Um, you know, marketing, we'revery, you know, comfortable with
(08:27):
uh posting, you know, the beingbeing visible and then it stops.
And you know, the sales end ofit were resistant because we
don't want to be perceived as ayou know, as a gross, sleazy
salesperson.
Um, but they're really intendedto work together.
And I have um having worked onboth sides of it, you know,
having worked deeply on themarketing side of it, um I know
(08:51):
uh I knew how valuable havingthat consistent visible presence
is in the uh climate that we'rein today.
I knew how valuable that was,but it really wasn't until I got
now within this last year, youknow, focused on the sales end
of things, like how important itis to have both to work
together.
Uh marketing, um you're leftwaiting, you know, for that
(09:16):
inbound inquiry, which if you doit well, you're gonna get.
But I'm a huge advocate of youknow, being able to, while
you're waiting, be able toproactively initiate and start
those conversations so you cancreate your own opportunity.
And it's a it's a whole kind ofenvironment ecosystem, if you
will, that it's really intendedto support each other.
Yeah.
(09:36):
Again, very long answer to yourquestion.
Well, it was a very longquestion, so it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
I love the distinction you're making,
though, between marketing andsales, because I I think we
think of them, I hear peopletalk a lot about them together,
right?
I do marketing and sales.
I do sales and marketing, salesand marketing, marketing and
sales.
And there are people who, youknow, specialize in helping
people with one or the other,but I think so often for like
(10:02):
the average business owner,marketing and sales are the same
thing, right?
And so I what I see a lot in thewomen that I work with is
they're all over the marketing,right?
They're posting on social media,they're emailing their list,
they're providing value, they'regoing to networking events and
connecting with people andthey're doing all of this stuff
(10:22):
to increase their visibility, tobring people into their
audience.
They're doing great, but thenthey're like, why am I not
making any money?
Right.
And I think it's because they'remissing that distinction between
marketing and sales.
They think because they aremarketing, the sales should be
coming automatically.
So for those people who arelistening to this that are like,
(10:43):
yes, that's 100% what I'm doing.
How do you suggest they startbringing more sales in?
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
I wish I had the silver bullet.
And the silver bullet is there'sno silver bullet.
It's just a practice.
It is just a daily disciplineand practice and simply building
that into your daily, weeklyroutine.
Uh, and it I'll let me back upand say I kind of think of it in
three phases.
Um, a lot of the women that Iwork with, they're coming to me
(11:12):
at kind of one of two inflectionpoints.
You know, they've, again,they've they've built a solid
business based on referral, butone of two things has happened.
They've had a, you know, a largeclient has moved off and they
they don't have anything inplace to fill that, or they're
at that stage where, hey, youknow, they're ready to to grow
and scale and move to that nextlevel.
And again, there's no process.
(11:34):
So again, I wish that couldthere was something I could say
that, you know, you insert thisin and it's going to be like,
you know, a double digitincrease overnight, but it
really is just the micro dailymicro actions that you take to
move that needle.
But I set that up to say a lotof us when we've started our
businesses, we've um, and Ithink, you know, to a certain
degree early stage, you have to,we've said yes to everything.
(11:57):
And to be able to, you know,proactively initiate and start a
conversation.
I'm not, you know, I knoweverybody gets really nervous
when they hear the idea ofsomeone advocating they need to
niche down or get focused.
But for the purposes ofinitiating and starting
conversation and being able toproactively uh um initiate
(12:18):
business growth, for thatmessaging, just think of, you
know, and ask your eye, think ofthat that one client or that one
project that you did.
That if, and I'm not saying thisis all you're ever going to do
for the rest of your business,but if that's all you did, who
is that?
You know, what is that work?
And get really, really focusedon the profile of who that that
(12:39):
client is and the problem you'resolving, that you can go start
more of those sameconversations.
And then once you've done that,it really is just there's so
many tools like pick your wherewhere's the sandbox?
Where are they playing?
And then it it really goes back,like you're the way you
advocate, you know, uh businessbuilding with you know, it's
(13:00):
just making connections andstarting conversations and
building relationships to createopportunity.
And that doesn't happenovernight, it's just a daily
micro action.
So, you know, once you've gotthat, you know, profile of that,
you know, again, that one personthat you want to start a
conversation with, find outwhere they're playing and get in
the room and then just be ableto say, like, I I heard this is
(13:21):
not an original quote, but I'mgonna steal it.
That uh, you know, sales reallyis like half the world is
waiting for the other half, orthe half of the room is waiting
for the other room to say hi.
Just be the first to say helloin a way that feels natural uh
and comfortable to you.
Um so yeah, once you've kind ofvalidated that audience pro or
that that client profile, youknow, you're able to work that
(13:43):
into your messaging and themarketing things that you're
using to support your business.
Um and it hopefully that willdrive some more of those inbound
conversations.
But in the meantime, being ableto day on in the daily just
practically initiate thoseconversations.
I I practice what I call like a322 method, if you will.
(14:03):
Um, and this is what I foundwhen I talk about, you know,
sustainable practice.
Where your chosen platform is,wherever your client is is
living and playing, orprospective client is living and
playing, that could be you know,Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,
whatever that platform is, it'slike where can you contribute to
the conversation and drop threecomments on your ideal client's
(14:29):
content that they're posting andjust engage in the conversation?
And then two proactive outreachmessages: one to someone new
that you want to start arelationship with, and then
someone else that's already inyour network that could be a
past client, a referral partner,potential collaborator that
you're just staying visible butproactively uh start again,
(14:50):
building that relationship andnurturing.
And I that's where mindset comesin too.
Uh, because a lot of people,well, I'll I'll even use again
myself as an example.
Early in my sales career, I canremember my first like full
commission sales job.
And I was fortunate to besitting between the two of the
highest performing sales womenin the company.
(15:13):
And white nut, I was just, youknow, white knuckling how am I
gonna make, you know, make myforecast this month.
And uh my the one Nancy GDsitting next to me, shout out to
Nancy GD.
She said, Tam, you know, you gotyou gotta let go of the focus on
the number because when you getfocused on the number, you push
it further away.
When you focus on the client infront of you, and the this
(15:35):
you're doing all the rightthings.
Plan to work, work to plan, andthe numbers will come.
So I think that again, thatmindset you start those
conversations, don't go into itwith that trying to close a
deal.
You know, one of sure it may endup being a client, or it could
be a great referral partner,collaborator, or just like a
really smart conversation thatpoints you to the next right
(15:55):
thing to do in your business togrow.
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think again, we try toovercomplicate things, right?
And so we think if I'm gonnamake sales, if I'm gonna turn my
marketing into sales, then Ineed this big complicated
funnel.
I need, you know, some sort of,we were just talking about
tripwires on the mastermind.
And everybody was like, Wheredid that phrase even come from?
I'm like, I don't know.
Just like, you know, whensomebody gets your free thing
(16:20):
and you're like, oh, if you lovemy free thing, you could also
add this thing for sevendollars, you know.
Like, so I need a freebie andthen I need a tripwire, and then
I need an email sequence tofunnel those people through.
And then after that, I need themto go here and do this.
And I can't do that unless Ihave the sales page set up.
And when I set up my sales page,I'm gonna need somewhere for
them to go to do this, this, andthis.
And we wait until we have all ofthose 50 million things, then we
(16:44):
can start selling, right?
But actually, and this is one ofthe reasons I started this
business, is to get people torealize like, I feel like so
often we're doing thingsbackwards.
We build the, we get thepictures taken, we build the
website, we get the logo, we doall of the things, right?
And then, because we think weneed all those things to start
selling.
(17:04):
What you really need to startselling is to know who you're
selling to, what their problemis, how you're gonna solve their
problem, and then start havingconversations with people.
unknown (17:14):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
That's it.
Everything you're describing, wespend way too much time setting
the table.
We just need to sit down andstart eating.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yes, yes.
And once you have thoseconversations, right, once
you're starting to do thosethings, that's when you're gonna
start bringing money in.
And then you can use that moneyto put the frosting on the cake,
right?
Like we want to get the frostingfirst and learn how to make.
I I have the weirdest metaphors,so we're just gonna go with it.
(17:43):
We want the frosting first andwe want to learn how to make the
like icing flowers and all ofthe fancy icing things, right?
And we do all those, and thenwe're like, well, shit, I don't
have a cake to put this on.
But and we like to do thatbecause that's the sexy part,
right?
Like, that's the part thateverybody sees that's like, oh,
look at her.
She's like a real businesswoman.
(18:04):
She's her, she's got icing, sheknows how to make flowers, she
knows how to do all thesethings, and that makes our
imposter syndrome feel good.
It makes us feel good becausenow everybody else is looking at
us and like, oh, she's legit,she knows how to make frosting
flowers.
But then we realize like thosefrosting flowers are not on a
cake.
We don't even have a cake.
So we start backwards, we do thenon-sexy part of baking a cake,
(18:29):
and then at least we havesomething to live off of while
we learn how to make frostingflowers.
SPEAKER_00 (18:34):
Yeah, and and I will say metaphor, sort of.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
I I like that.
I followed it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
I'm I'm with you.
Thank you.
I'll say statistically speaking,it takes about 90 days.
Like what you are doing now isgonna show up 90 days from now.
So don't delay.
Like if you're listening to thisand there's like one one action
item you could take from this,is identify, you know, two
people today or tomorrow, youknow, one new connection that
(19:00):
you know, and it necessarily belike just someone you admire
that's doing something, youknow, interesting that is, you
know, you've gotten some benefitout of in your business, that
you just want to, what is it?
The you know you're the sum ofthe the six people you you
surround yourself with.
So, you know, expanding yournetwork to someone you want to
know and then look at yourexisting network, you know, like
I said, past client uh that youhaven't reached out to in a
(19:23):
while, uh, you know, referralpartner, collaborator, or just
you know, someone in your aconnection that's already in
your network just to reach outand get in touch with um is what
you are doing today is gonnashow up 90 days from now.
So every day you delay it justpushes that next, that next
client out, you know, about 90days further.
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I think too, you know, wetalk a lot about on this podcast
about how to not be a salesyweirdo.
And I think sometimes peoplethink if I'm reaching out to
someone new or I'm reaching outto somebody I haven't had a
conversation with in a while,I'm gonna come across as a
salesy weirdo.
And I think the biggestdistinguisher of that is like
(20:02):
what is your intention inreaching out to them, right?
Because if I've never met youbefore, or I just like met you
at this one networking event andI'm like, hey, Tam, great to see
you at this networking event.
I would love to do a 30-minute,I don't know what I do.
I'll just make something up.
I would love to provide you, Iwould love to offer you a
30-minute website audit and giveyou my thoughts on your website,
(20:24):
right?
Just I just want to do this, youknow, just to connect with you
and just to be nice and it'd bereally great, right?
Like, okay, salesy weirdo,because unless you were born
yesterday, we know you're notjust doing a website audit out
of the goodness of your heart,right?
Like, thank you.
And also no.
And if you're reaching out tosomebody like a former client or
something like that, you're notreaching out to them to say,
(20:45):
like, hey, you haven't given meany money in the last six
months.
Are you interested in giving mesome money now?
unknown (20:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
But both of those, that's the pitch slap, which
that's I'm on a mission to endthat.
That's exactly what you don'twant to do.
SPEAKER_01 (20:59):
Yes.
So how do we want to start thoseconversations?
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
It takes, I mean, 30 seconds.
I mean, with their tools andresources that we have at our
disposal today to, you know, Imean, you look at someone's
social feed, you know, Googlesearch to see if they have any
news, press announcements.
You know, people just want tofeel seen and supported and know
that they matter and they'revaluable and it's about, you
know, them and not you.
And from a genuine way, like youcan always extend, you know,
(21:28):
recognition to someone, youknow, for something they've
accomplished in their business.
You can always say thank you.
You can always offer a valuableresource that can support them
in their business and the nextmove that you know may or may
not include you.
But you're so right.
It's the mindset and theintention.
And to go at it from a place ofgenuine, like goes back to that,
you know, I my whole mantra ofsales is an act of service.
(21:50):
It's about what you give, notwhat you get.
And when you serve well, the ROIalways follows.
And I have yet to find that notto be true.
So from the intention of, it'slike, you know, you give a gift,
it's not with the expectationyou're gonna get get anything
back.
So really doing it from thatintention of uh just a genuine
intention to support and serveand and be of be of value.
(22:14):
And when you do that, it it justit comes back.
I have repeated myself, but Ihave yet to see that knot come
back on itself.
And I will point out it may notto get all woo, but you know, it
may not be from that person orindividual, but it'll be
something out of left field thatyou didn't even expect.
But it's the momentum, you know,that you put out there that it
(22:35):
comes back to you in more waysthan you can imagine.
Yeah, I totally agree.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Yeah.
Okay, so we need to wrap uppretty soon.
I this is, I mean, sales andmarketing is such a huge topic.
We could go on forever.
But this is my last question foryou.
If somebody is listening to thisand they're like, this all
sounds great, um, but I hatesales, I'm bad at marketing, and
uh I but also I'm not abillionaire, so I won't be
(23:04):
hiring someone else to do mysales and marketing.
Where can they start today?
Like, is there a mindset shift?
Is there like you mentioned, youknow, reaching out to a couple
different people and juststarting conversations?
What do you recommend for thepeople who are listening who are
feeling like that?
SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
I I hear you, I've been you.
And and depending on the day,I'm st I still am you.
Uh and it I'm this is kind of myhot take.
I don't believe that there isany, there's a such a thing as a
sales expert.
There are, you know, there's alot of people out there that
have lots and lots of practice.
(23:41):
Uh, and that's that's allthey're just more practice than
you.
And you know, pick and also, youknow, we're overwhelmed at the
messaging that we have to doevery be everywhere and do
everything.
And yes, all of those thingswork, but what what's gonna is
the thing that you can show upand do uh consistently.
(24:03):
So start small, you know, pickone one thing that and uh that
feels true to you that and youryour business and the client
that you're serving and startthere.
And I can't say that there's notgonna be um, you know, it like
starting anything new, you know.
(24:23):
I hate to use, you know, in anexercise metaphor, any, any new,
you know, anything new you'vetaken on, there's always gonna
be some level of discomfort.
And and I I feel it, you know,any any in my own business, you
know, I mean, I still like anyI've had uh you know career
sales and I still get anxietybefore sales conversations.
(24:45):
Um, but it's just with practiceand repetition, it does get
easier.
So I'd say just start small uhand pick one thing and what that
you can do repeatedly and pourgas on it.
Love that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:58):
Yeah.
Okay.
So if people are listening,they're loving you because why
wouldn't they?
They want to know more aboutwhat you do, how you might be
able to help them, whatever yougot going on.
What are some good ways for themto connect with you?
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Absolutely.
Um, you can find me uh LinkedInand the Sales and Service
Podcast is where I'm I'm hangingout most of the time.
Uh, you can also find me on mywebsite, studio349.com.
Uh, and I invite, again, talkingabout daily practices that can
uh make, you know, kind of giveyou a starting point and give
(25:31):
you some, you know, dailypractices you can implement in
your own business.
Uh, go to studio349.com slashfreebies and download the VIP
power hour.
And that'll give you somepractical, like daily
disciplines that you can startto work in and proactively
generate more leads and businessopportunities for your business.
Awesome.
That's brilliant.
SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
Okay, I will put the links for all of those in the
show notes so people can clickon those and connect with you.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
It was great chatting with you.
I knew we were gonna love eachother and have a million things
to talk about, and we did.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
So thank thank you so much for the invitation.
Like I told you, I I I'm afangirl and I've gotten so much,
you know, out of your, you know,podcasting content and uh to be
able to be a guest on here.
I just um it's a it's acompliment and I'm glad to be
here.
Awesome.
Thank you.
I'm so glad to have you.
Awesome.
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