May 18, 2025 • 41 mins
Are you living for yourself or for the expectations of others?
In this episode, I sit down with Ashley Jordan, author of Unhappy Achiever: Rejecting the Good Girl Image & Reclaiming the Joy of Inner Fulfillment, to discuss the power of shedding societal expectations and embracing authenticity in life and business.
Ashley shares her transformative journey of self-discovery, offering insights and actionable steps for breaking free from people-pleasing, perfectionism and the patriarchy so you can reconnect with what truly matters.
We discuss:
- The impact of societal, familial, and cultural expectations on women’s lives and businesses.
- How perfectionism creates barriers to joy, self-worth, and genuine relationships.
- Why breaking the rules and releasing the “good girl” image is a game-changer for female entrepreneurs.
This conversation serves as a powerful reminder for women to stand firm and expect to be acknowledged on YOUR terms, challenging traditional paradigms that no longer serve you. If you’re ready to release the weight of external expectations (as well as your own!) and live the life you were meant to live, this episode will inspire and empower you to embrace your perfectly imperfect self!
Links & References:
- Join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community!
- Learn more about Ashley: www.ashjordan.com
- Buy the book! www.unhappyachiever.com
- Connect with Ashley on Instagram
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two girl dogs, two boy cats and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello Ashley, Welcome to the Power for Women Rising
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi Melissa.
Thank you for having me.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Yes, excited to talk to you today.
Before we dive into today'stopic, why don't you tell
everybody a little bit about youand your background and what
you do now?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Sure Well, I am an author and a speaker.
I recently published the bookUnhappy Achiever Rejecting the
Good Girl Image and Reclaimingthe Joy of Inner Fulfillment.
But I really consider myself astoryteller, so communication is
a medium that I use to helpilluminate the paths of other
(00:40):
women.
I share my stories in hopesthat from those stories there'll
be an invitation for otherwomen to share those their own
stories and to find resonancefor themselves in those stories
and hopefully some learning andsome lessons that they can take
with them and carry forward inwalking their own most powerful
(01:01):
paths.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's amazing.
I love what you said becauseone of the things that I have
found in my own business in thelast couple of years especially
as I have allowed myself to showup more authentically, share
more of my real self, more ofthat self that, like as a little
girl, felt like you're weird,what is wrong with you that I
(01:23):
realized the more that I do that, the more it gives other women
permission to do the same thing,and so I love what you do too
in that sense.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes, well, that is exactly it, right.
When we are brave and boldenough to be our authentic
selves in the world especiallywhen it doesn't fit the box of
the good girl, it doesn't pleasein the way that we're
conditioned to we pave the pathfor other women to do the same,
and so that is what it's allabout.
(01:53):
For me, right, it's sharing myown stories, my own lessons, my
own life, in hopes that itinspires other women to live
their biggest, boldest, mostauthentic lives, and not just
professionally, right asentrepreneurs, but personally as
well.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, so how did you get to this point?
I mean, I know it's probably avery long story, but I imagine
you didn't just like come to age14 and be like I'm just going
to be unhappy what was the wordthat you use?
Not unhappy, happily, againstthe expectations, and I'm not
(02:31):
going to, I'm not going toconform to this good girl thing
and I'm just going to be me Likehow'd you get there?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So I'll tell you.
I was 37 years old and I alwayswant to say that.
You know, I wish I could tellyou a story of 37.
I realized that I didn't knowmyself at all and that I really
needed to go on this internalexploration and figure out who I
was.
And that's not what happened atall.
(03:00):
Unexpectedly stumbled into thislife-changing now four and a
half year journey that I've beenon, in which every major aspect
of my life, with the exceptionof my three beautiful children,
has changed in four and a halfyears, from my career to my
friendships, to my marriage.
Nothing about my life looks theway that it did four and a half
(03:21):
years ago, and that's because,without even knowing it, I had
built a life based on externalexpectations, approval,
perfectionism, being a very goodgirl, and at some point along
the way, I completely lost touchwith me, with who I actually
(03:41):
was.
And so I realized at 37, when,you know, an unexpected trigger
sent me spiraling into 24 yearsof repressed traumatic grief
from childhood that I had noidea who I was, that the version
of me I had been living as wasa mask, was a construction based
(04:07):
on everything I articulatedright, all of the things I was
taught I should be instead ofwho I actually was, and that
always starts in childhood,right.
As soon as someone tells usthat who we are isn't good
enough, it isn't right, it's notpleasing, we without even maybe
consciously realizing it,construct a new version of
(04:30):
ourselves to act on our behalf,right.
And so in the book, I call her,like my alter ego, amber
instead of Ashley.
Amber was pleasing, amber didwhat everyone wanted.
Amber achieved lots of bigthings, right.
But somewhere along the way Ijust became Amber and I didn't
know Ashley anymore.
(04:51):
And so this journey has beenabout, and this book really is
about.
What does it look like when youhave built an entire life from
the outside in, right, based onthe external, and now you
rediscover yourself, right?
You unbury your authenticityfrom somewhere inside of your
being, and now you have todeconstruct that life that you
(05:14):
built from the outside in torebuild one that aligns with who
you are and lights you up fromthe inside out.
And so that is what brings mehere today to be having this
conversation with you.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I feel like there's so manydifferent ways that we could go
about this conversation, becausethis is a very complex topic,
right Like when we're talkingabout where did these
expectations come from?
They came from our family, theycome from society, they came
from the patriarchy, they comefrom all of these like big
(05:49):
celebrity business coaches thatsay, like this is what you
should look like and this is howyou should run your business
and this is what you should do,and there's a lot.
There's a lot of expectationson us as women, there's a lot of
expectations on us asentrepreneurs, and then there's
a lot of expectations on us asfemale entrepreneurs, absolutely
.
So let's talk a little bitabout just kind of, basically,
(06:16):
where do you think that theseexpectations come from?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, I think that they start in childhood and I
think that a lot of ourcaregivers and I'll say, you
know, not just male caregiversbut also female caregivers
impose those expectations uponus, and not intentionally,
necessarily or consciously, butunconsciously, because they're
simply imposing the same rules,expectations and standards that
(06:44):
were imposed upon them right.
And so when I look at my ownmother and I'll say, you know, I
love my mother unconditionally.
She's a wonderful woman, awonderful wife, and, just like
me, as a mother, she did thevery best that she could and she
was teaching me what she hadbeen taught right by her own
(07:06):
mother and what I'm sure mygrandmother was taught by my
great grandmother right the codeof conduct for being a girl and
for being a woman.
And it's about being very good,it's about pleasing, it's about
being perfect, it's aboutself-sacrifice, sacrificing
yourself for everyone else'scomfort right and even martyring
(07:29):
yourself for others right.
We're taught that that's whatgood women do.
And so, by those standards,authenticity becomes absolutely
impossible.
You know, one thing I wastaught as a young girl was that
I was responsible for otherpeople's feelings.
So if somebody was upset withme, that was my fault and I
(07:50):
needed to fix it Right,Regardless of what I had done,
if somebody was upset and I wasthe subject, then that was my
fault, that was my problem.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And half the time, even if it wasn't you, even if
you weren't the subject, it wasstill on you to fix it.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Absolutely, absolutely, to figure out what
you did wrong and to fix it.
And when you're living with anexpectation, like even that one
example, authenticity isimpossible because you're so
worried about keeping everybodyelse happy and comfortable and
safe, right, it's impossible tobe your real, authentic self.
(08:28):
Because here's the secret Ifyou're your real, authentic self
, everybody's not going to bepleased all the time.
Right, it is the saying.
When you stop pleasing, peoplearen't pleased and that's true,
right.
And so just getting used tobeing authentic, even when it
(08:50):
means somebody may not like adecision you made, something
that you said right.
Your behavior is a hugeunlearning for us and usually
that programming starts early onin our childhood.
It certainly did for me.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, and it makes sense from a like biological
level too, right, because ourhalf of our brains, at least,
are still stuck in our cavemandays where, if you weren't
accepted, if you were ostracized, if they did decide, no, this
one's sick, this one's weak,this one's's whatever, like you
did get left behind, you did getkicked out and it was a matter
(09:28):
of life or death.
And so I think there's still apart of our brain that, like
when we're rejected, or weperceive that we're rejected or
we perceive that we're not whoour people want us to be that
part of our brain is still likeoh my gosh, this is life or
death.
Like you better figure this outor you're going to be left to
the.
What were the saber toothtigers?
(09:51):
That's what I was thinking of.
I was going to say bobcat, Iknew that wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Absolutely we are.
We are communal creatures,right, and our survival depended
on community.
And I'll say, even now, aschildren, our survival depends
on our caregivers, right.
So, even now, when we're kids,we don't really have a choice.
(10:16):
Right, we have to align ourbehavior with the expectations
and beliefs that are imposedupon us early on for our own
safety and survival.
So I think, even even now, thatholds true.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, I agree.
So when it comes to femaleentrepreneurs, what do you see?
I mean, I know you work withall types of women and all types
of women.
Read your book.
It's not just for entrepreneurs.
I think it's relevant to anywoman who's ever existed in the
world, really.
But do you see certainunrealistic expectations show up
(10:56):
more often than others in womenor in female entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Absolutely so.
You know, I was a stay at homemother of three for many years
and I can tell you that even youknow, whatever your life looks
like as a woman, whatever yourrole is, the standards are very,
very high, right, the standardsfor mothers are extremely high,
and we are forced to fit anideal, and then when you couple
(11:26):
motherhood with being anentrepreneur, it's just you have
a whole nother set of standardsright to live by, and we can
say that with any role oridentity, whether it's a sister,
a daughter, a wife, right ineach role we play there is a set
of expectations, there areboxes that we're meant to check,
(11:48):
and so every identity we assume, that's just another set of
expectations.
So, as an entrepreneurparticipating in business, in
the public sector, we are meantto fit in a paradigm that was
built in a patriarchy that wasbuilt based on and for men,
(12:10):
right, and so we were taughtthat, if you want to, for a long
time we didn't have theopportunity to participate,
right.
And then, when we were giventhe opportunity, for a long time
we didn't have the opportunityto participate right, and then,
when we were given theopportunity, it was okay, we
will let you participate, butyou will fit in this paradigm,
in this masculine box, andthat's how you need to show up.
You have a uniform.
If you do things this way, youwill be treated equitably and
(12:33):
taken seriously.
And of course, we know we triedand we've bent over backwards
to do it and it's still not true.
It's still not true.
And so for women, right?
I also think you know, for me, abig part of this journey and my
own healing was realizing howmuch I had become inauthentic
(12:57):
because I was trying to fit inthat masculine box, that
masculine way of being.
I went to law school the legalfield is extremely conservative
and I was told right out of lawschool that if I wanted to get a
job, that I needed to buy anavy blue pinstripe skirt suit
and that that's what employerswould expect to see a young
(13:20):
female attorney in.
That was the condition ofemployment, right, and that
wasn't.
I mean, I'm not super young,but I'm not super old, so it
wasn't so long ago.
And so, quite literally, therewas a uniform prescribed for me.
And, Melissa, I'll say I hatedskirt suits.
(13:43):
I still hate skirt suits.
I felt much more powerful in ablack pantsuit, right.
And now I show up in, you know,neon, pink suits and yellow
suits, and and so, at a certainpoint, for entrepreneurs, yes,
there are all of these boxes forwomen that were meant to fit If
(14:04):
we want our business to betaken seriously, if we want to
be taken seriously as businesswomen.
But at a certain point werealized that even when we are
contorting ourselves andsacrificing our authenticity to
fit in those boxes, we stillaren't treated equitably.
So, I asked myself where does mytrue power come from?
(14:24):
It comes from my unique being,from the most authentic
expression of me, of my feminine, of my masculine and everything
in between.
So now I wear what I want and Iexpect to be taken seriously in
this.
I expect to be taken seriouslyin a neon yellow suit, if that's
what I'm wearing that day and Ifind that in that expression I
(14:48):
feel so much more powerful andmore than that empowered than I
ever did in that awful, boringnavy blue pinstripe skirt suit.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Right, yeah, that was supposed to make you look and
feel more powerful, but probablymade you feel the opposite
because it was the last thingthat you wanted to be in.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yes, it felt restrictive, it felt small, and
I'll say I wore that.
You know, in a court of law,one of the first days I ever set
foot in a court of law and amale attorney came up to me and
he rubbed my suit, he rubbed myshoulder and he said, nice,
what's that made of?
(15:31):
And immediately diminished me.
Right, I felt so small.
And so our power lies in beingour biggest, boldest selves in
the world as women, whether thatis an expression of your
feminine, your masculine and, asI said, anything in between, if
(15:54):
it is you said anything inbetween, if it is you right,
it's the saying give them youuntil you is what you want, or
what they want, give them youuntil you is what they want.
And I really think that that iswhat it's time for as women and
entrepreneurs.
Right, we are not fitting boxesanymore.
We are breaking boxes, we arebreaking the rules and we are
(16:17):
being ourselves and asking notso much asking expecting to be
taken seriously in the world andin the public sector, as
businesswomen.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Also part of what creates these unrealistic
expectations for us is, like Iwas thinking about it when you
were talking about being a stayat home mom or like
homeschooling your kids right,even that that you would think,
oh well that you know you get tostay at home and take care of
your kids and that takes a lotof the pressure off.
But there's still so much likeyou still look on Facebook and
you see like, oh, this mom doesfun things with her kid every
single day.
And look on Facebook and yousee like oh, this mom does fun
(17:04):
things with her kid every singleday and look how happy this
family is.
And oh, this mom doesn't feedher kids anything that has red
dye, number three in it orgluten or whatever.
And my kids just ate likepancakes for breakfast, lunch
and dinner.
Like there's always thecomparison.
So how do you?
How do you handle that?
The comparison.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So how do you?
How do you handle that?
So, as a writer, you're neversupposed to write in cliches,
but that rule doesn't apply whenI'm speaking and cliches work
so well.
I'm going to use one right here.
You know, they say thatcomparison is the thief of joy.
For a reason it it is, itabsolutely is.
And here is the thief of joy,for a reason it is, it
absolutely is.
And here is the reason whyBecause and this even relates to
(17:41):
your previous question aboutyou know prescriptions and
expectations for women andentrepreneurs.
Whatever business you're in tosucceed, you will be given a
list of prescriptions.
Right?
Social media is a great example.
If you ask an expert what youneed to do to grow your social
(18:06):
media following, you will begiven a list of steps.
And that's great.
It's not that they don't work,but what I realized is, yes,
sure, consider them, buteveryone is doing them.
When everyone is doing the samething, it's really hard to stand
(18:28):
out.
It's not to say those thingsdon't work, but it is to say
that when everyone is followingthe same formula, right, it's
not necessarily authentic orunique or interesting.
And so when you are reallystepping in and reconnecting
(18:48):
with who you are authentically,which is the ultimate hero's
journey within.
What you find is that your path, your truest, most unique path,
is going to be different fromevery single person out there.
If out there, if every, if youare walking your unique, most
(19:09):
aligned path, it will not looklike anybody else's path.
So comparison is absolutelypointless, right?
You living your most authenticlife is never, ever, ever going
to look the same as anyoneelse's, and that's the beauty of
it, right?
That's what makes it anadventure, that's what makes it
(19:30):
interesting.
You're going to be breakingrules you never thought you'd
break.
You're going to be taking risksand trying things you never
thought you would try or do.
If I hadn't done that, Iwouldn't be sitting here with
you right now, and so comparisonis futile.
There's nothing to comparebecause everyone's path is
(19:53):
different.
Path is different.
Walking your path with bothfeet is going to look different
every second, every minute,every day of your life.
There's no, there's nothing tocompare to from that place, and
that is a place of creation.
That is what it means to reallycreate from the unknown,
(20:13):
personally and professionally,and that's the secret sauce
really to success, I think.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, yeah, and comparison really is.
I mean, it's easy to do, we alldo it, but it really is fake,
because nobody else is startingfrom the same place as you,
nobody else has the exact sameexperiences and education and
you know personality or likelife stories as you, but still
(20:43):
we think for some reason thatwhat worked for them should also
work for us, and it should workfor us in the same time frame.
And if we do exactly the samething that they do, it should
work right Because it worked forthem.
But we forget all of that otherlike logical stuff about why
that actually makes no sense.
And I think what you're sayingtoo, about letting go of
(21:04):
comparison and just lettingyourself be the whole time
you're talking I'm thinking whatyou're saying takes a lot of
courage.
And my next question was goingto be about perfectionism and
how perfectionism plays intothese expectations as well.
And I think letting go of thatperfectionism also takes a lot
of courage, because we want tofollow the script, we want to
(21:29):
follow the path that is laid outfor us, because someone has
said, if you do x, y and z,there's no, there's no risk, you
won't fail, it won't be hard,you won't be uncomfortable,
right, and that's ultimatelywhat we're after as
perfectionists too.
Right, like if I can doeverything perfectly, there's no
chance I'll fail.
(21:49):
There's no chance I'll do itwrong, there's no chance I'll be
uncomfortable.
So can you talk a little bitabout perfectionism?
But also like finding thatcourage that is required to be
okay with failure or discomfort.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Absolutely so.
The first thing aboutperfectionism and I say this as
a serious perfectionist in mypast, right, a serious
perfectionist in my past, right,we all know deep down that
perfect is unattainable.
Right, perfection is a standardnobody achieves, ever, ever.
(22:32):
We are all marvelously mortal.
We are all perfectly imperfect,and so perfectionism and
achieving that standard, thestandard of perfect at all, is a
complete illusion.
Right, it's fake, it's not real.
It is, you know, it only existsin, like an Instagram photo,
right, that was probablyfiltered, or one of like you
know 300 that was taken, right?
(22:53):
So, first of all, perfectionisn't even a real thing.
That said, it is real in thatwe hold ourselves to this, you
know, illusory standard.
Enlightening for me is that,when I was really in that space
(23:21):
of trying to be perfect andliving from a place of
perfectionism, I had a therapistwho wisely said to me she said
you know, ashley, perfectionismis something we use to try to
earn love and connection andkeep us safe.
Right, when we really look atwhy we try to be perfect, it's
because we're trying to meet astandard, we're seeking other
people's validation and approvaland, even more than that, we're
(23:43):
trying to earn love from people.
Right, and she said the ironicthing about perfection is that
it is not a means of connection.
It is a barrier to true love andconnection, because when you
appear perfect to other people,you are unrelatable, you are
(24:07):
unattainable, you areuntouchable.
It is hard to connect with you.
Right, and she was right.
It's true, when we try so hardto be perfect, we block the
things that we desire the most.
You know people's responses todifferent emotions and what
(24:38):
people had the strongestreaction to, and everyone
thought it was going to be love.
But it wasn't love actually, itwas authenticity.
Right, it was realness and soperfection.
It isn't real, and when we aretrying to be perfect, we aren't
being real.
So we are blocking all of that.
(25:01):
Whether we're trying to connectwith people through our
business right as entrepreneurs,or whether we're trying to
connect with people personally,perfectionism is a barrier to
success and to the things thatwe desire most.
Yeah, absolutely to success andto the things that we desire
most, yeah absolutely.
And to answer, I guess, theother part of your question
(25:21):
about finding the courage you ittakes a lot of courage to be
ourselves.
And part of being ourselves isadmitting that we aren't perfect
.
Right, that we don't knoweverything about everything,
that we didn't wake up like this.
Right that we make mistakes.
(25:44):
Right that we fail gloriouslysometimes, personally and
professionally, and at firstthat can feel hard or scary, but
the truth is, melissa, it is soliberating.
Right Like that is the placewhere true self-love is born.
Because it's one thing to loveyourself when you know you're on
(26:08):
, you're having your best dayand you're feeling great and
your hair's done.
But really loving yourself meansloving yourself when you have
just failed gloriously right,when you have just made a
mistake, when you look yourworst, when you feel your worst.
And in that place of saying, asa woman, as a business woman,
(26:31):
as a wife, as a mother, as afriend, as a sister, as a
daughter, I am worthy, I amenough, I am beloved, just
because of my authentic beingand not because of anything I'll
ever do or any standard orexpectation I'll ever meet.
But I am whole, complete,fulfilled and content with who I
(26:53):
am.
As I am, I am marvelouslymortal, I am hopelessly human
and perfectly imperfect.
Like that is freedom.
Right, because you're not tryingto be perfect, right, and so
now nobody can tell you anythingabout yourself that you don't
already know.
And as a woman who wrote a booklike I have oh, my God, if I
(27:17):
wasn't living from that place,melissa like this would be poor.
Like writing a book like thatwould be horrible.
Not everybody is going to loveit, but that's OK, because I
know who I am and I'm not tryingto be perfect.
I didn't wake up like this andit's all okay.
It's all okay, and so it doestake courage to live that way,
(27:41):
but, my God, it is so much moreliberating than living in this
perfectionist illusion.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
So if people are listening tothis and they are like, okay,
I'm on board with everythingyou're saying, sounds great,
sign me up, let's do all that.
What is what is something thatyou recommend Like?
What is something we could dotoday, whether it is a mindset
shift, an exercise, something Iwould say probably the first
(28:13):
step would be to buy UnhappyAchiever.
I mean, that would be myrecommendation.
But what is something elseperhaps that you recommend
people start doing today to kindof try to turn this around and
loosen up some of thoseexpectations and be more of
their authentic selves?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, there's a couple, a couple of things I
would recommend.
First of all, as women, andespecially as entrepreneurs, the
expectations, the demands onour time are so great that we
are often the last on our listof people that we're dedicating
(28:52):
time to or taking care of, andso the first thing that I would
say is, when you arerediscovering aspects of
yourself that you've lost touchwith, that requires time, right
To unbury them from your being,and so the first thing I would
say is carve out some time foryou, and, as busy women, that
(29:17):
can be a big ask, and so I'm notasking you for 30 minutes, even
I'm asking you for maybe fiveto 10 minutes.
Can you take five to 10 minutesto go on a walk outside?
To go on a walk outside to sitand sip a cup of coffee and just
be right To journal, to justwrite in a journal and just
(29:39):
write whatever comes to mind,right?
Or to do something that justbrings you joy, to listen to
music, and then that's the otherpiece.
Start carving out some time foryou, even if it's only five to
10 minutes a day, to just be, todo whatever you feel called to
do in that moment.
Again, there are no rules right.
If it's right for you, it'sright and you're, you are on the
(30:01):
right path.
And so the other thing I wouldsay is think about what you love
to do when you were a kid, whenyou were eight years old.
What did you love to do?
Because when we were eightyears old, we did what we did
for nothing but the sake of joy.
Right, we did what we didbecause it lit us up from the
(30:22):
inside out.
So I want you to think back toyour childhood and to that
version of yourself that didsomething from a place of pure,
unadulterated happiness and joy,and see what she loved to do
and ask yourself is there a waythat I could do that again?
Could I carve out some time todo that thing that I used to
(30:43):
love?
And if that thing was, you know, like a more child-like
activity, then is, can I look atthat activity I used to do and
find the thread that I reallyloved about it and find a way to
translate that into my life nowand to bring that back, because
reconnecting with those partsof ourselves puts us on a path
(31:07):
of rediscovery and finding andcoming home to ourselves again.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, that's great advice, and what I love about
what you're saying, too, is thatthis advice everything that
we're talking about todayapplies on a very personal level
, right Like it applies to whoyou are as a human and who you
are in your relationships withother humans outside of your
business.
But we can't really separatethose two.
(31:32):
There's not like Ashley the mom, ashley the friend, ashley the
author right Like.
Yes, there are differences,clearly, but who you are in one
of those spaces is influenceswho you are in those other
spaces.
And when you're taking bettercare of Ashley the human, when
(31:52):
you're in touch with Ashley thehuman, you're loving on her,
you're accepting her, you are,you know, reminding her of her
worth.
That has an impact on Ashleythe author.
That has an impact on Ashleythe business owner, has an
impact on Ashley the mom, and soI just wanted to put that out
there.
If people are listening to thisand they're like, what does
this have to do with business?
(32:13):
Like it has everything to dowith business.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It absolutely does, melissa, and I'm really glad
that you said that, because,even relating to what we
discussed earlier in ourconversation, with expectations
and perfectionism, when I wasoperating from that place in my
work, in my business, right,when I was operating as that
(32:37):
constructed, inauthentic versionof myself, when I was trying to
be perfect, when I was tryingto meet everyone's expectations,
I was living as that otherversion of me and it was
exhausting.
It took so much energy to beout in the world doing my work
(32:59):
because I was trying to be thisperson that I thought I should
be and that everyone wanted tobe, and trying to be that is
absolutely impossibly depleting,draining, and so we go out in
the world and we come home andwe have nothing left, right,
because it took so much energyto be that version of ourselves
(33:21):
as women.
But as I have become me, I showup as me here with you, I show
up as me with my children, Ishow up as me with my friends, I
show up as me when I'm out inthe world as an author and a
speaker, and it's not exhaustingbecause wherever I am, I'm just
(33:43):
being me, right and it's okay.
So that energy drain that Iused to feel is gone.
And when I'm out in the world,I'm just like I'm Ashley, right,
I might look a little, I might,you know, I might not be in my
bathrobe like I am when I wakeup with my kids in the morning,
but the core of my being, theexpression of me, is no
(34:06):
different, right, I'm juststepping into a different role,
but I'm always stepping into anyrole that I assume and that I
live in, my, in my life, as me.
That's all I have to do, andthat is the weight that is
lifted from our shoulders whenwe do that is tenfold, and the
(34:26):
connection that we're able tomake with people in our
businesses and in our personallives when we're operating from
that place is unreal.
I've never had moreunconditional love in my life
than I have today, and I've beenunpartnered for the first time
in my entire life for the pasttwo and a half years.
And still, I've never had moreunconditional love, from my work
(34:50):
to my friendships, to myrelationships with my children.
Right, and it's all because I'mwalking my, my own unique,
aligned path and I'm just beingme for the first time.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Ok, I'm going to put the linkto your amazing book Unhappy
Achiever Rejecting the Good GirlImage and Reclaiming the Joy of
Inner Fulfillment.
I will put the link to that inthe show notes because it's
amazing.
If people want to connect withyou, they want to learn more
about you.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Sure, they can find me on Instagram at Ms Ash A-S-H
Jordan J-O-R-D-A-N, and they canalso find me at ashjordancom
and unhappyachievercom.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Perfect.
I will put all those links inthe show notes and thank you so
much for coming on the podcast.
This was a great interview.
This is one that I don't listento every single one I used to
but it's really good to listento them back, because I always
hear something different than Iheard when I was interviewing
the person and this isdefinitely one that I'm going to
listen to back, probablymultiple times.
(35:59):
So thank you so much for comingand sharing your experiences
and being vulnerable and sharingyour authenticity and your
wisdom.
It's super, super helpful andinspiring.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Thank you, melissa.
It was an absolute delight totalk to you and I'm just
grateful to be here, so thanksagain for having me.
Hello Ashley, Welcome to the Power for Women Rising
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi Melissa.
Thank you for having me.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Yes, excited to talk to you today.
Before we dive into today'stopic, why don't you tell
everybody a little bit about youand your background and what
you do now?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Sure Well, I am an author and a speaker.
I recently published the bookUnhappy Achiever Rejecting the
Good Girl Image and Reclaimingthe Joy of Inner Fulfillment.
But I really consider myself astoryteller, so communication is
a medium that I use to helpilluminate the paths of other
(00:40):
women.
I share my stories in hopesthat from those stories there'll
be an invitation for otherwomen to share those their own
stories and to find resonancefor themselves in those stories
and hopefully some learning andsome lessons that they can take
with them and carry forward inwalking their own most powerful
(01:01):
paths.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's amazing.
I love what you said becauseone of the things that I have
found in my own business in thelast couple of years especially
as I have allowed myself to showup more authentically, share
more of my real self, more ofthat self that, like as a little
girl, felt like you're weird,what is wrong with you that I
(01:23):
realized the more that I do that, the more it gives other women
permission to do the same thing,and so I love what you do too
in that sense.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes, well, that is exactly it, right.
When we are brave and boldenough to be our authentic
selves in the world especiallywhen it doesn't fit the box of
the good girl, it doesn't pleasein the way that we're
conditioned to we pave the pathfor other women to do the same,
and so that is what it's allabout.
(01:53):
For me, right, it's sharing myown stories, my own lessons, my
own life, in hopes that itinspires other women to live
their biggest, boldest, mostauthentic lives, and not just
professionally, right asentrepreneurs, but personally as
well.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, so how did you get to this point?
I mean, I know it's probably avery long story, but I imagine
you didn't just like come to age14 and be like I'm just going
to be unhappy what was the wordthat you use?
Not unhappy, happily, againstthe expectations, and I'm not
(02:31):
going to, I'm not going toconform to this good girl thing
and I'm just going to be me Likehow'd you get there?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So I'll tell you.
I was 37 years old and I alwayswant to say that.
You know, I wish I could tellyou a story of 37.
I realized that I didn't knowmyself at all and that I really
needed to go on this internalexploration and figure out who I
was.
And that's not what happened atall.
(03:00):
Unexpectedly stumbled into thislife-changing now four and a
half year journey that I've beenon, in which every major aspect
of my life, with the exceptionof my three beautiful children,
has changed in four and a halfyears, from my career to my
friendships, to my marriage.
Nothing about my life looks theway that it did four and a half
(03:21):
years ago, and that's because,without even knowing it, I had
built a life based on externalexpectations, approval,
perfectionism, being a very goodgirl, and at some point along
the way, I completely lost touchwith me, with who I actually
(03:41):
was.
And so I realized at 37, when,you know, an unexpected trigger
sent me spiraling into 24 yearsof repressed traumatic grief
from childhood that I had noidea who I was, that the version
of me I had been living as wasa mask, was a construction based
(04:07):
on everything I articulatedright, all of the things I was
taught I should be instead ofwho I actually was, and that
always starts in childhood,right.
As soon as someone tells usthat who we are isn't good
enough, it isn't right, it's notpleasing, we without even maybe
consciously realizing it,construct a new version of
(04:30):
ourselves to act on our behalf,right.
And so in the book, I call her,like my alter ego, amber
instead of Ashley.
Amber was pleasing, amber didwhat everyone wanted.
Amber achieved lots of bigthings, right.
But somewhere along the way Ijust became Amber and I didn't
know Ashley anymore.
(04:51):
And so this journey has beenabout, and this book really is
about.
What does it look like when youhave built an entire life from
the outside in, right, based onthe external, and now you
rediscover yourself, right?
You unbury your authenticityfrom somewhere inside of your
being, and now you have todeconstruct that life that you
(05:14):
built from the outside in torebuild one that aligns with who
you are and lights you up fromthe inside out.
And so that is what brings mehere today to be having this
conversation with you.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I feel like there's so manydifferent ways that we could go
about this conversation, becausethis is a very complex topic,
right Like when we're talkingabout where did these
expectations come from?
They came from our family, theycome from society, they came
from the patriarchy, they comefrom all of these like big
(05:49):
celebrity business coaches thatsay, like this is what you
should look like and this is howyou should run your business
and this is what you should do,and there's a lot.
There's a lot of expectationson us as women, there's a lot of
expectations on us asentrepreneurs, and then there's
a lot of expectations on us asfemale entrepreneurs, absolutely
.
So let's talk a little bitabout just kind of, basically,
(06:16):
where do you think that theseexpectations come from?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, I think that they start in childhood and I
think that a lot of ourcaregivers and I'll say, you
know, not just male caregiversbut also female caregivers
impose those expectations uponus, and not intentionally,
necessarily or consciously, butunconsciously, because they're
simply imposing the same rules,expectations and standards that
(06:44):
were imposed upon them right.
And so when I look at my ownmother and I'll say, you know, I
love my mother unconditionally.
She's a wonderful woman, awonderful wife, and, just like
me, as a mother, she did thevery best that she could and she
was teaching me what she hadbeen taught right by her own
(07:06):
mother and what I'm sure mygrandmother was taught by my
great grandmother right the codeof conduct for being a girl and
for being a woman.
And it's about being very good,it's about pleasing, it's about
being perfect, it's aboutself-sacrifice, sacrificing
yourself for everyone else'scomfort right and even martyring
(07:29):
yourself for others right.
We're taught that that's whatgood women do.
And so, by those standards,authenticity becomes absolutely
impossible.
You know, one thing I wastaught as a young girl was that
I was responsible for otherpeople's feelings.
So if somebody was upset withme, that was my fault and I
(07:50):
needed to fix it Right,Regardless of what I had done,
if somebody was upset and I wasthe subject, then that was my
fault, that was my problem.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And half the time, even if it wasn't you, even if
you weren't the subject, it wasstill on you to fix it.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Absolutely, absolutely, to figure out what
you did wrong and to fix it.
And when you're living with anexpectation, like even that one
example, authenticity isimpossible because you're so
worried about keeping everybodyelse happy and comfortable and
safe, right, it's impossible tobe your real, authentic self.
(08:28):
Because here's the secret Ifyou're your real, authentic self
, everybody's not going to bepleased all the time.
Right, it is the saying.
When you stop pleasing, peoplearen't pleased and that's true,
right.
And so just getting used tobeing authentic, even when it
(08:50):
means somebody may not like adecision you made, something
that you said right.
Your behavior is a hugeunlearning for us and usually
that programming starts early onin our childhood.
It certainly did for me.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, and it makes sense from a like biological
level too, right, because ourhalf of our brains, at least,
are still stuck in our cavemandays where, if you weren't
accepted, if you were ostracized, if they did decide, no, this
one's sick, this one's weak,this one's's whatever, like you
did get left behind, you did getkicked out and it was a matter
(09:28):
of life or death.
And so I think there's still apart of our brain that, like
when we're rejected, or weperceive that we're rejected or
we perceive that we're not whoour people want us to be that
part of our brain is still likeoh my gosh, this is life or
death.
Like you better figure this outor you're going to be left to
the.
What were the saber toothtigers?
(09:51):
That's what I was thinking of.
I was going to say bobcat, Iknew that wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Absolutely we are.
We are communal creatures,right, and our survival depended
on community.
And I'll say, even now, aschildren, our survival depends
on our caregivers, right.
So, even now, when we're kids,we don't really have a choice.
(10:16):
Right, we have to align ourbehavior with the expectations
and beliefs that are imposedupon us early on for our own
safety and survival.
So I think, even even now, thatholds true.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, I agree.
So when it comes to femaleentrepreneurs, what do you see?
I mean, I know you work withall types of women and all types
of women.
Read your book.
It's not just for entrepreneurs.
I think it's relevant to anywoman who's ever existed in the
world, really.
But do you see certainunrealistic expectations show up
(10:56):
more often than others in womenor in female entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Absolutely so.
You know, I was a stay at homemother of three for many years
and I can tell you that even youknow, whatever your life looks
like as a woman, whatever yourrole is, the standards are very,
very high, right, the standardsfor mothers are extremely high,
and we are forced to fit anideal, and then when you couple
(11:26):
motherhood with being anentrepreneur, it's just you have
a whole nother set of standardsright to live by, and we can
say that with any role oridentity, whether it's a sister,
a daughter, a wife, right ineach role we play there is a set
of expectations, there areboxes that we're meant to check,
(11:48):
and so every identity we assume, that's just another set of
expectations.
So, as an entrepreneurparticipating in business, in
the public sector, we are meantto fit in a paradigm that was
built in a patriarchy that wasbuilt based on and for men,
(12:10):
right, and so we were taughtthat, if you want to, for a long
time we didn't have theopportunity to participate,
right.
And then, when we were giventhe opportunity, for a long time
we didn't have the opportunityto participate right, and then,
when we were given theopportunity, it was okay, we
will let you participate, butyou will fit in this paradigm,
in this masculine box, andthat's how you need to show up.
You have a uniform.
If you do things this way, youwill be treated equitably and
(12:33):
taken seriously.
And of course, we know we triedand we've bent over backwards
to do it and it's still not true.
It's still not true.
And so for women, right?
I also think you know, for me, abig part of this journey and my
own healing was realizing howmuch I had become inauthentic
(12:57):
because I was trying to fit inthat masculine box, that
masculine way of being.
I went to law school the legalfield is extremely conservative
and I was told right out of lawschool that if I wanted to get a
job, that I needed to buy anavy blue pinstripe skirt suit
and that that's what employerswould expect to see a young
(13:20):
female attorney in.
That was the condition ofemployment, right, and that
wasn't.
I mean, I'm not super young,but I'm not super old, so it
wasn't so long ago.
And so, quite literally, therewas a uniform prescribed for me.
And, Melissa, I'll say I hatedskirt suits.
(13:43):
I still hate skirt suits.
I felt much more powerful in ablack pantsuit, right.
And now I show up in, you know,neon, pink suits and yellow
suits, and and so, at a certainpoint, for entrepreneurs, yes,
there are all of these boxes forwomen that were meant to fit If
(14:04):
we want our business to betaken seriously, if we want to
be taken seriously as businesswomen.
But at a certain point werealized that even when we are
contorting ourselves andsacrificing our authenticity to
fit in those boxes, we stillaren't treated equitably.
So, I asked myself where does mytrue power come from?
(14:24):
It comes from my unique being,from the most authentic
expression of me, of my feminine, of my masculine and everything
in between.
So now I wear what I want and Iexpect to be taken seriously in
this.
I expect to be taken seriouslyin a neon yellow suit, if that's
what I'm wearing that day and Ifind that in that expression I
(14:48):
feel so much more powerful andmore than that empowered than I
ever did in that awful, boringnavy blue pinstripe skirt suit.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Right, yeah, that was supposed to make you look and
feel more powerful, but probablymade you feel the opposite
because it was the last thingthat you wanted to be in.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yes, it felt restrictive, it felt small, and
I'll say I wore that.
You know, in a court of law,one of the first days I ever set
foot in a court of law and amale attorney came up to me and
he rubbed my suit, he rubbed myshoulder and he said, nice,
what's that made of?
(15:31):
And immediately diminished me.
Right, I felt so small.
And so our power lies in beingour biggest, boldest selves in
the world as women, whether thatis an expression of your
feminine, your masculine and, asI said, anything in between, if
(15:54):
it is you said anything inbetween, if it is you right,
it's the saying give them youuntil you is what you want, or
what they want, give them youuntil you is what they want.
And I really think that that iswhat it's time for as women and
entrepreneurs.
Right, we are not fitting boxesanymore.
We are breaking boxes, we arebreaking the rules and we are
(16:17):
being ourselves and asking notso much asking expecting to be
taken seriously in the world andin the public sector, as
businesswomen.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Also part of what creates these unrealistic
expectations for us is, like Iwas thinking about it when you
were talking about being a stayat home mom or like
homeschooling your kids right,even that that you would think,
oh well that you know you get tostay at home and take care of
your kids and that takes a lotof the pressure off.
But there's still so much likeyou still look on Facebook and
you see like, oh, this mom doesfun things with her kid every
single day.
And look on Facebook and yousee like oh, this mom does fun
(17:04):
things with her kid every singleday and look how happy this
family is.
And oh, this mom doesn't feedher kids anything that has red
dye, number three in it orgluten or whatever.
And my kids just ate likepancakes for breakfast, lunch
and dinner.
Like there's always thecomparison.
So how do you?
How do you handle that?
The comparison.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So how do you?
How do you handle that?
So, as a writer, you're neversupposed to write in cliches,
but that rule doesn't apply whenI'm speaking and cliches work
so well.
I'm going to use one right here.
You know, they say thatcomparison is the thief of joy.
For a reason it it is, itabsolutely is.
And here is the thief of joy,for a reason it is, it
absolutely is.
And here is the reason whyBecause and this even relates to
(17:41):
your previous question aboutyou know prescriptions and
expectations for women andentrepreneurs.
Whatever business you're in tosucceed, you will be given a
list of prescriptions.
Right?
Social media is a great example.
If you ask an expert what youneed to do to grow your social
(18:06):
media following, you will begiven a list of steps.
And that's great.
It's not that they don't work,but what I realized is, yes,
sure, consider them, buteveryone is doing them.
When everyone is doing the samething, it's really hard to stand
(18:28):
out.
It's not to say those thingsdon't work, but it is to say
that when everyone is followingthe same formula, right, it's
not necessarily authentic orunique or interesting.
And so when you are reallystepping in and reconnecting
(18:48):
with who you are authentically,which is the ultimate hero's
journey within.
What you find is that your path, your truest, most unique path,
is going to be different fromevery single person out there.
If out there, if every, if youare walking your unique, most
(19:09):
aligned path, it will not looklike anybody else's path.
So comparison is absolutelypointless, right?
You living your most authenticlife is never, ever, ever going
to look the same as anyoneelse's, and that's the beauty of
it, right?
That's what makes it anadventure, that's what makes it
(19:30):
interesting.
You're going to be breakingrules you never thought you'd
break.
You're going to be taking risksand trying things you never
thought you would try or do.
If I hadn't done that, Iwouldn't be sitting here with
you right now, and so comparisonis futile.
There's nothing to comparebecause everyone's path is
(19:53):
different.
Path is different.
Walking your path with bothfeet is going to look different
every second, every minute,every day of your life.
There's no, there's nothing tocompare to from that place, and
that is a place of creation.
That is what it means to reallycreate from the unknown,
(20:13):
personally and professionally,and that's the secret sauce
really to success, I think.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, yeah, and comparison really is.
I mean, it's easy to do, we alldo it, but it really is fake,
because nobody else is startingfrom the same place as you,
nobody else has the exact sameexperiences and education and
you know personality or likelife stories as you, but still
(20:43):
we think for some reason thatwhat worked for them should also
work for us, and it should workfor us in the same time frame.
And if we do exactly the samething that they do, it should
work right Because it worked forthem.
But we forget all of that otherlike logical stuff about why
that actually makes no sense.
And I think what you're sayingtoo, about letting go of
(21:04):
comparison and just lettingyourself be the whole time
you're talking I'm thinking whatyou're saying takes a lot of
courage.
And my next question was goingto be about perfectionism and
how perfectionism plays intothese expectations as well.
And I think letting go of thatperfectionism also takes a lot
of courage, because we want tofollow the script, we want to
(21:29):
follow the path that is laid outfor us, because someone has
said, if you do x, y and z,there's no, there's no risk, you
won't fail, it won't be hard,you won't be uncomfortable,
right, and that's ultimatelywhat we're after as
perfectionists too.
Right, like if I can doeverything perfectly, there's no
chance I'll fail.
(21:49):
There's no chance I'll do itwrong, there's no chance I'll be
uncomfortable.
So can you talk a little bitabout perfectionism?
But also like finding thatcourage that is required to be
okay with failure or discomfort.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Absolutely so.
The first thing aboutperfectionism and I say this as
a serious perfectionist in mypast, right, a serious
perfectionist in my past, right,we all know deep down that
perfect is unattainable.
Right, perfection is a standardnobody achieves, ever, ever.
(22:32):
We are all marvelously mortal.
We are all perfectly imperfect,and so perfectionism and
achieving that standard, thestandard of perfect at all, is a
complete illusion.
Right, it's fake, it's not real.
It is, you know, it only existsin, like an Instagram photo,
right, that was probablyfiltered, or one of like you
know 300 that was taken, right?
(22:53):
So, first of all, perfectionisn't even a real thing.
That said, it is real in thatwe hold ourselves to this, you
know, illusory standard.
Enlightening for me is that,when I was really in that space
(23:21):
of trying to be perfect andliving from a place of
perfectionism, I had a therapistwho wisely said to me she said
you know, ashley, perfectionismis something we use to try to
earn love and connection andkeep us safe.
Right, when we really look atwhy we try to be perfect, it's
because we're trying to meet astandard, we're seeking other
people's validation and approvaland, even more than that, we're
(23:43):
trying to earn love from people.
Right, and she said the ironicthing about perfection is that
it is not a means of connection.
It is a barrier to true love andconnection, because when you
appear perfect to other people,you are unrelatable, you are
(24:07):
unattainable, you areuntouchable.
It is hard to connect with you.
Right, and she was right.
It's true, when we try so hardto be perfect, we block the
things that we desire the most.
You know people's responses todifferent emotions and what
(24:38):
people had the strongestreaction to, and everyone
thought it was going to be love.
But it wasn't love actually, itwas authenticity.
Right, it was realness and soperfection.
It isn't real, and when we aretrying to be perfect, we aren't
being real.
So we are blocking all of that.
(25:01):
Whether we're trying to connectwith people through our
business right as entrepreneurs,or whether we're trying to
connect with people personally,perfectionism is a barrier to
success and to the things thatwe desire most.
Yeah, absolutely to success andto the things that we desire
most, yeah absolutely.
And to answer, I guess, theother part of your question
(25:21):
about finding the courage you ittakes a lot of courage to be
ourselves.
And part of being ourselves isadmitting that we aren't perfect
.
Right, that we don't knoweverything about everything,
that we didn't wake up like this.
Right that we make mistakes.
(25:44):
Right that we fail gloriouslysometimes, personally and
professionally, and at firstthat can feel hard or scary, but
the truth is, melissa, it is soliberating.
Right Like that is the placewhere true self-love is born.
Because it's one thing to loveyourself when you know you're on
(26:08):
, you're having your best dayand you're feeling great and
your hair's done.
But really loving yourself meansloving yourself when you have
just failed gloriously right,when you have just made a
mistake, when you look yourworst, when you feel your worst.
And in that place of saying, asa woman, as a business woman,
(26:31):
as a wife, as a mother, as afriend, as a sister, as a
daughter, I am worthy, I amenough, I am beloved, just
because of my authentic beingand not because of anything I'll
ever do or any standard orexpectation I'll ever meet.
But I am whole, complete,fulfilled and content with who I
(26:53):
am.
As I am, I am marvelouslymortal, I am hopelessly human
and perfectly imperfect.
Like that is freedom.
Right, because you're not tryingto be perfect, right, and so
now nobody can tell you anythingabout yourself that you don't
already know.
And as a woman who wrote a booklike I have oh, my God, if I
(27:17):
wasn't living from that place,melissa like this would be poor.
Like writing a book like thatwould be horrible.
Not everybody is going to loveit, but that's OK, because I
know who I am and I'm not tryingto be perfect.
I didn't wake up like this andit's all okay.
It's all okay, and so it doestake courage to live that way,
(27:41):
but, my God, it is so much moreliberating than living in this
perfectionist illusion.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
So if people are listening tothis and they are like, okay,
I'm on board with everythingyou're saying, sounds great,
sign me up, let's do all that.
What is what is something thatyou recommend Like?
What is something we could dotoday, whether it is a mindset
shift, an exercise, something Iwould say probably the first
(28:13):
step would be to buy UnhappyAchiever.
I mean, that would be myrecommendation.
But what is something elseperhaps that you recommend
people start doing today to kindof try to turn this around and
loosen up some of thoseexpectations and be more of
their authentic selves?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, there's a couple, a couple of things I
would recommend.
First of all, as women, andespecially as entrepreneurs, the
expectations, the demands onour time are so great that we
are often the last on our listof people that we're dedicating
(28:52):
time to or taking care of, andso the first thing that I would
say is, when you arerediscovering aspects of
yourself that you've lost touchwith, that requires time, right
To unbury them from your being,and so the first thing I would
say is carve out some time foryou, and, as busy women, that
(29:17):
can be a big ask, and so I'm notasking you for 30 minutes, even
I'm asking you for maybe fiveto 10 minutes.
Can you take five to 10 minutesto go on a walk outside?
To go on a walk outside to sitand sip a cup of coffee and just
be right To journal, to justwrite in a journal and just
(29:39):
write whatever comes to mind,right?
Or to do something that justbrings you joy, to listen to
music, and then that's the otherpiece.
Start carving out some time foryou, even if it's only five to
10 minutes a day, to just be, todo whatever you feel called to
do in that moment.
Again, there are no rules right.
If it's right for you, it'sright and you're, you are on the
(30:01):
right path.
And so the other thing I wouldsay is think about what you love
to do when you were a kid, whenyou were eight years old.
What did you love to do?
Because when we were eightyears old, we did what we did
for nothing but the sake of joy.
Right, we did what we didbecause it lit us up from the
(30:22):
inside out.
So I want you to think back toyour childhood and to that
version of yourself that didsomething from a place of pure,
unadulterated happiness and joy,and see what she loved to do
and ask yourself is there a waythat I could do that again?
Could I carve out some time todo that thing that I used to
(30:43):
love?
And if that thing was, you know, like a more child-like
activity, then is, can I look atthat activity I used to do and
find the thread that I reallyloved about it and find a way to
translate that into my life nowand to bring that back, because
reconnecting with those partsof ourselves puts us on a path
(31:07):
of rediscovery and finding andcoming home to ourselves again.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, that's great advice, and what I love about
what you're saying, too, is thatthis advice everything that
we're talking about todayapplies on a very personal level
, right Like it applies to whoyou are as a human and who you
are in your relationships withother humans outside of your
business.
But we can't really separatethose two.
(31:32):
There's not like Ashley the mom, ashley the friend, ashley the
author right Like.
Yes, there are differences,clearly, but who you are in one
of those spaces is influenceswho you are in those other
spaces.
And when you're taking bettercare of Ashley the human, when
(31:52):
you're in touch with Ashley thehuman, you're loving on her,
you're accepting her, you are,you know, reminding her of her
worth.
That has an impact on Ashleythe author.
That has an impact on Ashleythe business owner, has an
impact on Ashley the mom, and soI just wanted to put that out
there.
If people are listening to thisand they're like, what does
this have to do with business?
(32:13):
Like it has everything to dowith business.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It absolutely does, melissa, and I'm really glad
that you said that, because,even relating to what we
discussed earlier in ourconversation, with expectations
and perfectionism, when I wasoperating from that place in my
work, in my business, right,when I was operating as that
(32:37):
constructed, inauthentic versionof myself, when I was trying to
be perfect, when I was tryingto meet everyone's expectations,
I was living as that otherversion of me and it was
exhausting.
It took so much energy to beout in the world doing my work
(32:59):
because I was trying to be thisperson that I thought I should
be and that everyone wanted tobe, and trying to be that is
absolutely impossibly depleting,draining, and so we go out in
the world and we come home andwe have nothing left, right,
because it took so much energyto be that version of ourselves
(33:21):
as women.
But as I have become me, I showup as me here with you, I show
up as me with my children, Ishow up as me with my friends, I
show up as me when I'm out inthe world as an author and a
speaker, and it's not exhaustingbecause wherever I am, I'm just
(33:43):
being me, right and it's okay.
So that energy drain that Iused to feel is gone.
And when I'm out in the world,I'm just like I'm Ashley, right,
I might look a little, I might,you know, I might not be in my
bathrobe like I am when I wakeup with my kids in the morning,
but the core of my being, theexpression of me, is no
(34:06):
different, right, I'm juststepping into a different role,
but I'm always stepping into anyrole that I assume and that I
live in, my, in my life, as me.
That's all I have to do, andthat is the weight that is
lifted from our shoulders whenwe do that is tenfold, and the
(34:26):
connection that we're able tomake with people in our
businesses and in our personallives when we're operating from
that place is unreal.
I've never had moreunconditional love in my life
than I have today, and I've beenunpartnered for the first time
in my entire life for the pasttwo and a half years.
And still, I've never had moreunconditional love, from my work
(34:50):
to my friendships, to myrelationships with my children.
Right, and it's all because I'mwalking my, my own unique,
aligned path and I'm just beingme for the first time.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Ok, I'm going to put the linkto your amazing book Unhappy
Achiever Rejecting the Good GirlImage and Reclaiming the Joy of
Inner Fulfillment.
I will put the link to that inthe show notes because it's
amazing.
If people want to connect withyou, they want to learn more
about you.
What is the best way for themto do that?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Sure, they can find me on Instagram at Ms Ash A-S-H
Jordan J-O-R-D-A-N, and they canalso find me at ashjordancom
and unhappyachievercom.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Perfect.
I will put all those links inthe show notes and thank you so
much for coming on the podcast.
This was a great interview.
This is one that I don't listento every single one I used to
but it's really good to listento them back, because I always
hear something different than Iheard when I was interviewing
the person and this isdefinitely one that I'm going to
listen to back, probablymultiple times.
(35:59):
So thank you so much for comingand sharing your experiences
and being vulnerable and sharingyour authenticity and your
wisdom.
It's super, super helpful andinspiring.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Thank you, melissa.
It was an absolute delight totalk to you and I'm just
grateful to be here, so thanksagain for having me.
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