September 8, 2025 • 34 mins
Is "success" costing you your sanity, your health or your joy?
In this powerful episode, I sit down with mental health advocate and entrepreneur LaKisha Mosley for a raw, real, and refreshingly honest conversation about what it actually looks like to prioritize your wellbeing while building a business.
LaKisha knows firsthand what happens when we ignore the warning signs — because she’s been there: running a business, raising a family, checking all the boxes… and silently unraveling behind the scenes.
Now, she’s on a mission to help other women entrepreneurs stop “swapping their sanity for success.” This conversation is your permission slip to do things differently - and your roadmap for how.
In this episode, we cover:
- The difference between mental health and mental illness (and why both matter in business)
- Why women entrepreneurs are especially vulnerable to high-functioning depression and burnout
- How protecting your peace gives you a strategic edge in business
- How to normalize asking for help - especially if you’ve been conditioned not to
- Why rest isn’t lazy, and slowing down isn’t quitting
If you’ve ever felt like the weight of your business is crushing you, this episode is a reminder that your wellbeing is not optional. It's foundational. And as LaKisha says, "Protect your peace like it's your profit — because it is."
Links and References:
If you want to grow your business in a way that feels good (and doesn't cause burnout!) join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
For even deeper connections, better support and faster business growth, check out the Powerful Women Rising Business Growth Community!
If you're ready to prioritize your wellbeing as a business investment, follow Lakisha on Instagram @LakishaMMosley or visit her website to download her mental health crisis plan.
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two dogs, her soul cat Giorgio and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa (00:02):
Hello Lakeisha, welcome to the podcast Hi.
Melissa Thank you for the invite.
I'm excited.
Yes, I'm so excited to have you.
This is I am notorious forreaching out to like famous
people on Instagram.
Like I've invited JenniferLopez to my podcast like five
times.
I don't know why she's neverresponded, but sometimes I find
(00:24):
famous people in other ways.
I just decided that you'refamous today and so I found you
on a summit, on Liz Wilcox'ssummit.
I listened to your presentationon that and I just like I loved
your personality so much butalso what you were talking about
, and I was like I got to havethis lady on my podcast.
So thank you so much forresponding to my DM unlike
(00:46):
Jennifer Lopez and thank you forbeing here.
I'm so excited to talk to you.
LaKisha (00:51):
Thank you, I'm excited as well.
Melissa (00:53):
Yeah, so before we dive in, tell everybody a little bit
about you, what you do, how yougot here.
LaKisha (00:59):
Well, I'm Lakeisha Mosley.
I am a mental health advocateand disruptor.
I am here to disrupt yourstatus quo about what mental
health is and isn't.
I actually got here beingsomeone who actually suffered a
breakdown.
As a woman in business, as amom, I actually hit overload and
(01:24):
was diagnosed with highfunctioning depression, and from
that moment I decided that noother women would be in silence.
No one else had to struggle insilence to figure out those
pieces, to pick up their life asan entrepreneur.
It's a lot different than ifyou work a job.
You just take time off, butwhat do you do as an
entrepreneur?
It's not like you can just shutdown your business and keep
(01:46):
going.
So I want to help women learnhow to stop swapping their
sanity for success.
Melissa (01:53):
I love that, yeah, yeah , it's a revolutionary concept
that we can have both.
And then you throw in being amom and it's like no way.
And they grow, melissa, butthey still are men.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter, even ifthey're 50, they're still a mess
.
Yes, well, I love this topicbecause I think that mental
(02:16):
health, I mean it's an importanttopic for us to talk about
anyway.
Right, it's something that wedon't talk about enough in our
society.
It's something that we don'ttalk about enough as women, but
it's definitely something that Irarely hear talked about in the
entrepreneurial space, and thatwas one of the reasons that I
wanted to have you on the show.
So tell me, what have younoticed in the time, either your
(02:36):
own experience or working withother entrepreneurs?
What are some of the mentalhealth challenges that you've
seen that are kind of unique towomen entrepreneurs?
LaKisha (02:47):
I will say, first and foremost, because women we as
women are nurturers.
A unique piece is trying tonurture yourself.
In this space, we know how totake care of other folks.
(03:09):
We want to take care of us.
That's a challenge of I got tokeep going.
I need to keep going.
I got to get this done.
My family got to, you know, myfamily got to eat.
I got to create a legacy.
I got to do this Like girl sitdown, because if you're not good
, nothing else is going to comeup.
Come right, you know we'll bewell.
I know that's a huge challengefor women.
Also, we don't like to be veryvulnerable or transparent in
(03:36):
this space.
We don't know how to ask forhelp.
We feel like we should have theanswers figured out as the
nurturers, as the person whobrings it all together, whether
you are single or you aremarried, a lot of times you're
carrying the weight of yourhousehold, you're carrying the
weight of your family, and so wedon't know how to say I don't
(03:58):
have it, I ain't got it, I ain'tgot it, I don't have it.
That's a huge challenge becausein a space where we have to be
not only competitive with men,we're competing with each other.
We don't want to say we don'thave it or we don't know.
So I feel like that's a reallybig challenge for us and it
(04:20):
keeps us in this space whereit's just a spiral, it's just a
cycle of not matter.
Melissa (04:27):
Yeah, and I think too, as entrepreneurs, no matter who
you are, I think you still havethis need to appear a certain
way to everybody else.
Right, we all have some degreeof imposter syndrome, and so we
want to make sure that peopleare taking us seriously, that
people see us as successful.
You know, you and I weretalking before we started
recording.
(04:47):
I recently started working apart-time job at Starbucks and I
had so much mind drama aboutthat and, like, what if people
find out and if this is soembarrassing, I have a part-time
job?
Right, like, who's ever goingto take my advice now on how to
build a successful business whenI'm working at Starbucks?
Also, right, like we have allof these unrealistic
(05:08):
expectations of ourselves.
And also, we worry, like noone's going to take me seriously
if they find out I haven'tshowered in the last three days
because I've been so deep indepression.
Right, like, who's going towant to work with me as a coach
or trust me to design theirwebsite or whatever it is, when
they know that I am sometimessuffering from debilitating
(05:31):
anxiety?
So we worry so much about, like, how we appear to other people,
and I think that's a huge partof it too, don't you think?
Yes, it's absolutely.
LaKisha (05:40):
It's probably one of the biggest pieces in this whole
journey, because I hate to saystruggle, but in this whole
journey of how we move aboutjust in our place like girl me
too, I didn't know that that wasokay, or I didn't know that
(06:09):
that was real.
I'll get that all the time Likedang, I didn't know that was
real.
Like you'll see me post likeI'm in crises right now and
they're like, oh, you're smilingand grinning on Instagram.
Yeah, but deep down inside,honey, I am really going through
whatever it is.
So appearances yeah, we got tobe together, Melissa, we have to
, you know.
Melissa (06:29):
Yeah, and what's so crazy is that I ended up posting
on Facebook about getting a joband about this stigma that we
have as entrepreneurs about like, oh, if I have to get a job, I
failed right and nobody's goingto take me seriously.
And I probably have 200comments on that post from women
that are like, oh my God, metoo.
Thank you so much for sayingthis.
(06:50):
I've been thinking aboutgetting a job, but I'm really
struggling with these samethings.
It's like something verymagical and empowering happens
when we're willing to show upauthentically Right, Like nobody
commented on that.
I was like, oh my God, what aloser.
I can't believe you have a job.
LaKisha (07:07):
Right, it's the stories we tell ourselves, it's the
narratives that we painted inour head, because that's how
we're judging ourselves.
It's not necessarily howsomeone else is judging us, it's
how we we are judging ourselves.
Anybody who hears me talk aboutmy job.
I'm like, I'm not ever leaving,I'm not quitting, I will work
(07:27):
that job and I'm going to workthis business.
Yeah, I'm leaving, honey.
I love my job.
Yeah, I absolutely love it, andI have a lot of flexibility and
I feel like, if the business,not if, when the business blows
up and gets really big, I amgoing to find a way to still
work part-time because I lovewhat I do.
(07:49):
So for me, I feel like it's thebest thing to do, because you
know, with entrepreneurship itebbs and flows so much.
But this is a constant that Iwill always have and I think it
helps me with the cognitivepieces, because your business is
one thing and you know, butlisten, when you think about it,
we do this.
(08:10):
It's rinse and repeat, rinseand repeat.
Sometimes with the job it's notso much that, because there are
different nuances, that kind ofshow up in different spaces.
So I think it's admirable ofyou to do that.
I think it teaches people thatyou don't have to stay stuck in
this mindset of oh, if I don'tget a job, I fail.
No, I think that's smart foryou to do that, especially if
(08:33):
you know what your situation is.
Melissa (08:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think we just love this Like I think
we're, I think we're coming offof it.
I think there was a big swingof like all of these business
coaches and life coaches andonline marketers that were like,
look at me on my private jetand I barely work and I'm so
happy and my life is so perfectand I sit on the beach and make
millions and millions of dollars.
And I think we're now coming toa new place where it's like
(08:59):
okay, let's all be real, and Iappreciate that so much.
So one of the things that youtalked about early on is how
it's a lot harder as anentrepreneur because you can't
just take a day off, or at leastyou feel like you can't take a
day off.
So what are some of thesuggestions that you have for
people who may be strugglingwith mental health issues and
(09:20):
are also trying to run abusiness, and how can they take
care of themselves without alsocompromising their business
goals?
LaKisha (09:29):
I would say first, just breathe, number one, and
recognize that you are not alone.
There are many of us, even ifyou feel it that you're alone.
There are many of us who are onthis journey of oh my gosh, I'm
in this really bad place or I'mreally, really struggling
(09:51):
through some stuff.
Just breathe and recognize thatyou're not alone, even if it
feels like that.
And the first step is not tofix everything.
It is simply to acknowledgethat you need support and that
you need to reach out for it,because a lot of people feel
like, oh my gosh, let me go fixit.
I need to figure it out.
First thing, you need torecognize that there is a
(10:12):
problem and that you needsupport in fixing that problem.
Now, that could mean, you know,calling a friend, reaching out
to a therapist they are, that isalways an option or really just
saying to yourself I can'tcarry this by myself anymore.
(10:33):
It's really just being realwith you.
I feel like women, especiallyentrepreneurs we are taught to
push through pain, like it'sadmirable to push through pain,
but really healing starts withpausing and asking for help.
We don't need the whole roadmapped out, we don't need to see
(10:56):
so far ahead, we just need totake one step, you know, at a
time, and sometimes, like youjust shared, is giving yourself
permission to just be okay withwhatever it is at that moment,
being okay with the decisionthat I have to make and not in
truth, and not choosing to staythere.
I think that's, that's very key.
Melissa (11:18):
Yeah, what advice do you have for people who struggle
with asking for help?
LaKisha (11:26):
I really want people to dig deep and figure out why do
you have an issue asking forhelp?
What has happened to you towhere you struggle with asking
for help?
A lot of times it's really inour childhood trauma.
I grew up with a mother who wasvery independent, taught me to
(11:47):
be very independent Even when itcame to men.
You don't need a man when itcame to men, you don't need a
man.
Like all these things whichreally really put you in bad
places when you have to engagewith other people.
It really puts you in badspaces.
So I would say first figure outwhy you are adverse to asking
(12:10):
for help, and that means that'ssome introspective work.
Like what do I feel when I askfor help?
Why am I bothered by asking forhelp and then taking a step
from whatever that is?
So, for instance, if you'relike well, I feel like a loser
when I ask for help.
I feel so unqualified when Iask for help, sometimes that may
(12:34):
be saying okay, girl, what yougot going on, I got this degree,
I got that degree, I made thisaccomplishment, I got that
accomplishment, I'm connected tothese people, I got this group
of great friends.
Sometimes it takes a get a girlboost Like this is you, you are
that chick, you are that chick,you are that girl.
And then from there, look atwhat's one thing I can do today
(12:56):
that I can possibly ask for helpin, and it's something that's
going to move the needle.
Not, hey, can you help mefigure out something small?
Like think of something thatwill move the needle for you If
you're working on a project andyou don't know how to do funnels
.
I got a friend right now that'slike I have no idea about
funnels and I'm like you'retalking to someone who knows I'm
(13:19):
not an expert in it, but I knowhow to do them.
And so she's like oh, I didn'teven think to ask you why not?
We talk like every other day,why not?
And so for her just sittingwith her 30 minutes and saying
(13:49):
let's map out what you want thisfunnel to look like.
And when we mapped it out,she's like, oh my gosh, I do
this already.
Yeah, cause that's what afunnel is.
You know she's already doingautomation in her newsletter.
When people join her email list.
She has a workflow.
Same thing.
Melissa (14:08):
Yeah, and sometimes that's all we need when it comes
to help, right?
Sometimes we just need somebodyto sit down with us and be like
look, you already have it andyou're like oh, why did I make
so much drama about this?
And I think we have to remembertoo, like two things can be true
at the same time.
Right, it can be that you areincredibly smart, you are a
brilliant life coach, you are afantastic mom, you have two
degrees, you have all theseaccomplishments and you don't
(14:32):
know how to build a funnel, likeone doesn't cancel all the
other ones out.
And I think sometimes in ourmind we think it does right,
like I can't be all of thesethings and also have to ask for
help with this Right, which iscompletely unrealistic but it
makes complete sense in our mindat the time.
Exactly Right Asking for afriend.
LaKisha (14:54):
Exactly, and I mean, I look at that for myself too.
You know it's a daily strugglesometimes, especially when
you're high functioning, becausehigh functioning you have to
keep work drives you.
When you're not working, that'swhen sometimes the pressure set
in.
It's really weird y'all.
But you look at the pieces andyou're like I literally sat on
(15:18):
this For what, when all I had todo was this and yes, I'm
accomplished.
I have awards in these things,but I don't know how to build a
website.
Does that cancel out the factthat I'm still that girl?
Melissa (15:34):
Right, yeah, and there's no award for like.
Did it the hardest way, right?
I was thinking that when youwere talking about how we're
taught to like, push throughpain and how there's this big
thing with women who have babies, that's like.
Oh, I did it without anepidural Like, why, why?
LaKisha (15:50):
would you girl Give me mine?
I, why, why would you girl Giveme mine?
I had both times Hurry up.
Melissa (15:54):
Right, because there's no award for like.
Survived the most pain.
Right, built the funnel in thehardest way possible, took 15
weeks to build your own websitewhen you could have hired
somebody.
Like.
There's no award for that andit's also not going on your
website, right?
Like people aren't.
Like oh, should I hire her?
No, she didn't take 15 weeks tobuild her own website.
(16:17):
Right?
Like no one cares except you.
So one of the things that I'veheard you say before is that
mental health is a competitiveadvantage, and along those same
lines, I've also heard you saylike self-care is a business
investment.
So can you talk to us a littlebit about that and what that
(16:38):
means?
LaKisha (16:39):
So I think people are confused about what mental
health is to begin with.
And it's really being wellemotionally, spiritually,
emotionally, you know,physically, financially, like
it's everything Mental health weall have, but some of us live
(17:01):
with a mental illness.
So there's the difference inthat being mentally well is
strategically an advantage toyou, because now you know how to
manage a lot of pieces in yourlife.
Think about as an entrepreneur.
You know I have a dailyschedule when it's entrepreneur
day or time, but I can get oneemail that can throw that entire
(17:24):
schedule off If I am notmentally well.
It could throw me into a spiral.
Ask someone who's highfunctioning who is rigid with
the schedule.
Ask someone who's highfunctioning who is rigid with
the schedule.
Like, rigid with the schedule,but I have to be emotionally
healthy to be able to say, oh soI can't do that at this moment.
(17:44):
Let me pivot here.
Whereas I could email thatperson back and be like, oh no,
I can't get this done, I'm sorry, I've already got my schedule
for the day.
Ok, now what?
Now you're, you're not reallyacting in the best interest of
your company.
It's almost, melissa, I thinkin a way you can say, being able
(18:07):
to pivot, just verystrategically be able to pivot.
It's very advantageous to bementally well and I'm not saying
to not struggle at all, but I'msaying to be mentally well that
when those things come up andthose feelings come up, you have
tips, tools and strategies thatsay okay, lakeisha, this isn't
in your schedule, this couldthrow this off, you may have to
put something over, but if thisis more important, let's get to
(18:28):
it.
I think that is what makes you,as a business owner, super,
super competitive as it relatesto other people, because think
about who else you're workingwith.
They may have said that tothree people and you were the
only one that said give me toend of day, I got this.
Or hey, I can figure this, I'llgive me till tomorrow, where
(18:49):
somebody else may be like, oh mygosh, I'm just not going to
respond at all, or someone hasresponded negatively to whatever
that may be.
So I think when, holistically,you are well and you can run
your business, from thatstandpoint you are such a
superpower.
As, related to everything else,I think how you get there is
(19:11):
the practice of self-care.
I think how you get there isthe practice of self-care and
self-care.
I hate to be negative on thisit's not spa days.
I knew that was coming it isnot a spa day.
It is not getting your hair done, it is not getting okay.
For me it is not those things.
(19:33):
Those things enhance myself-care.
So if I go to the nail salonand I only get like pedicures
y'all, I don't get nails done.
But I am not at ease because Iam watching her the whole time
(19:54):
so she doesn't cut my darncuticles or the water's not too
hot, like I can't really relax.
Melissa (19:56):
No, you're doing it wrong.
LaKisha (19:57):
Lakisha, I don't want to judge your pedicure, but
you're doing it wrong I that tome is not a part of self-care,
um, because I'm I gotta answeryou every five minutes.
Yeah, about something um thechair, the massage pieces.
(20:17):
It's just not it for me.
Melissa (20:18):
The lady next to you is talking on speakerphone so loud
about something that's going onwith their booty that we don't
all need to hear about yes, it'sbad, you already know.
LaKisha (20:28):
And then you want me to make decisions.
What color do I want on my toes?
I mean, yeah.
So for me, real self-care isreally more so about boundaries
and discipline.
It's saying no to a client thatdrains your energy.
It's going to therapy.
It's setting office hours.
It is eating or drinkingsomething they coffee and vibes
(20:54):
Like it's giving yourselfpermission, Melissa, to rest
without guilt.
It is really about that Again.
It's looking at and askingquestions.
We don't question ourselvesenough.
We question everybody elsesometimes, but we don't question
ourselves enough what the heckis sucking the life out of me or
(21:16):
what is serving me.
We're not asking thosequestions because you know both
of us they're cute, but if youget out the tub and you still
feel like you drowning in yourown schedule or in your own
email, that wasn't self-care.
Yeah, that was just anintermission to what you got to
get back to.
I just feel like you know, realself-care is probably unsexy to
(21:41):
some people.
It's not very glamorous.
It's really having these hardconversations with yourself and
the people who may be affectingthat.
It's also protecting your peacelike it's your profit, Like
it's really about beingintentional being intentional on
how you spend your energy,because energy is currency.
(22:02):
It's currency Especially for anentrepreneur.
Melissa (22:06):
Yeah, yeah, it brings me back to like I know this is a
very cliche, overused phrase,but like the whole idea of put
your own oxygen mask on first,right, or you can't pour from an
empty cup, or whatever thesaying is.
I think it's very true.
As moms, we struggle with thata lot.
We will give our last bit ofoxygen to everyone else before
(22:31):
we're even like, oh, I can'tbreathe, or same for business
owners, right.
Especially when we feel like wehave something to prove or
we're in that like holy shit, Ineed to make money right now.
Space or whatever it is right.
It's like shit, I need to makemoney right now.
Space or whatever it is Right.
It's like I.
So much of it is being able tosay like, yes, I can rearrange
things to accommodate this andalso knowing when it's okay to
(22:53):
say I actually can't rearrangethings, you'll have to find
someone else.
Absolutely.
LaKisha (22:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
We have to be okay with that.
And now that everybody's notgoing to like us or even cut for
that, one of the first things Idid after being diagnosed and
going to therapy and my businesswas one of those things that
was sapping the energy out of it, out of me.
I was working with people, um,that I didn't even like, like
(23:20):
why we own this business.
It's not like when you go towork, like you got to work with
these people.
You know you got to work withthe clients or customers that
come in the door.
You got to.
But if I own a business and Iprovide a service and or a
product, I don't necessarilyhave to work with you if I don't
want to work with you.
And that was one of the firstthings.
My therapist was like I knowyou love events, you love this
(23:41):
piece, but you love events, youlove this piece, but why are you
working with people you don'tlike?
And I was like and it was aboutthe money.
But when I really clear andstarted x-ing out the people, my
clientele list, that just wasnot good.
The money came up because thenI started attracting the right
(24:03):
people.
Melissa (24:04):
Yeah, I started, yeah, and right people.
Yeah, I started and you wereshowing up a different way.
You were probably a lot morecreative.
Your content was probably a lotdifferent.
The way that you wereconnecting with people was a lot
different, because you weren'talways in this space of like, oh
, but yes, got really clear, andthen I think that's what
intentionality comes in when youare no-transcript.
(24:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Is there anything else?
Before we wrap up, I feel likewe've covered a lot of different
things and I really really likethe distinction that you made
about mental health and mentalillness, cause I think sometimes
people think I don't, I don'tneed to listen to this podcast
about mental health, I'm notdepressed, I don't have anxiety
whatever.
I don't need to listen to thispodcast about mental health.
(25:08):
I'm not depressed, I don't haveanxiety whatever, and really
mental health affects all of us,so is there anything?
LaKisha (25:17):
that we haven't touched on, that you feel like is
really important, that you wantto share.
I think the main thing,especially now we hear a lot
about you know the hustleculture, hustle, hustle, like we
wear busy as a badge of honor.
Stop it, stop it.
There's no badge of honor.
If you pass out today, thesefolks gonna keep kicking.
(25:38):
And now you're over here likefeeling bad about whatever.
We carry a lot of guilt becauseI feel like we're such
nurturers and givers we overgiveand when you look at your
mental health, you give justenough.
We talk about the cup beingfull.
(25:58):
We can't pour it from an emptycup.
Start filling your cup and yourcup will overflow.
I think a lot of female foundersspecifically confused success
with suffering.
We think the harder that westruggle, the more invalidates
what we're doing.
It is not like it's not y'all.
(26:20):
I really feel like we can't runour businesses.
Like it's the emergency roomyou know how a triage looks.
We're triaging all day long.
Like that doesn't make sense tome.
I really feel like we need toreally tap into ourselves and
sometimes, melissa, that'ssitting with yourself and asking
these really hard questionswhat brings me joy?
(26:42):
What doesn't bring me joy?
What things sap the energy.
Who, what, where, what bringssaps the energy out of me and I
need to figure out how toeliminate those things.
But how do I get back to happy?
When was the last time I washappy?
When was the last time I didsomething I enjoyed?
And sometimes we don't want to,you know, dive deep, but it's
really great for your mentalhealth to be able to do those
(27:04):
things.
Melissa (27:05):
Yeah, those are really really good questions.
This is all so good.
It's funny because I makegraphics from these podcasts
with, like quotes from theguests and you keep saying
things that I'm like, oh, that'sgoing to be a good quote, oh,
that's going to be, but I justfound my my the best one is
going to be stop it.
That's going to be your wholequote.
Stop it, lakeisha Mosley.
It's going to go viral.
(27:34):
I already know.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
This has been so good.
If people want to stayconnected with you, I don't know
why they wouldn't, because youare amazing but what is the best
way for them to learn moreabout you, what you do and be in
your world?
LaKisha (27:44):
Well, my playground is Instagram.
I don't fool with that TikToktoo much.
And you would think, because Igravitate toward women
entrepreneurs, I'm on LinkedIn alot.
I am not.
It's so boring, it's veryboring.
I hate it.
I can't.
Melissa (28:01):
Sorry, LinkedIn lovers.
LaKisha (28:03):
Yeah, ig is my playground and I am DM friendly.
You can jump in my DMs.
I will respond to you now.
It may take me a day, but I'mgoing to respond to you so you
can follow me at Lakeisha MMosley on all platforms.
I do have TikTok, I do haveLinkedIn, I do have Facebook,
but IG is where you can find me,or on my website at
(28:27):
wwwlakeshamosleycom.
Melissa (28:29):
Awesome.
I will put the links for bothof those in the show notes.
And I think you mentioned youhave a mental health crisis plan
, right?
Yes, can you tell us a littlebit?
LaKisha (28:39):
about that.
Yes, I love this plan y'all,because a lot of times people
don't know what to do for uswhen we are in a bad space and
anything can trigger us.
So, as someone who is a highfunctioning depressant, this is
on my phone, I have it on myrefrigerator and my closest
(29:00):
tribe has it with them.
It's really a plan to write outwhat happens if, if you see me
do this, then this is what youdo for me.
And then at the bottom it hassome important numbers like to
988, to NAMI and some otherplaces, but sometimes it can
literally be call my daughter,call my husband, call my friend.
(29:23):
But it really gives people aplan of how to bet, how to take
care of me, without me having totell you anything, cause if I'm
really triggered I won't beable to communicate with you how
you can take care of me in thatmoment.
Melissa (29:38):
Yeah, that's brilliant.
So people can get their handson that on your website as well.
LaKisha (29:44):
Yes, awesome.
Melissa (29:46):
That's so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
I will put all those links inthe show notes and I appreciate
you so much.
LaKisha (29:53):
Thank you.
Hello Lakeisha, welcome to the podcast Hi.
Melissa Thank you for the invite.
I'm excited.
Yes, I'm so excited to have you.
This is I am notorious forreaching out to like famous
people on Instagram.
Like I've invited JenniferLopez to my podcast like five
times.
I don't know why she's neverresponded, but sometimes I find
(00:24):
famous people in other ways.
I just decided that you'refamous today and so I found you
on a summit, on Liz Wilcox'ssummit.
I listened to your presentationon that and I just like I loved
your personality so much butalso what you were talking about
, and I was like I got to havethis lady on my podcast.
So thank you so much forresponding to my DM unlike
(00:46):
Jennifer Lopez and thank you forbeing here.
I'm so excited to talk to you.
LaKisha (00:51):
Thank you, I'm excited as well.
Melissa (00:53):
Yeah, so before we dive in, tell everybody a little bit
about you, what you do, how yougot here.
LaKisha (00:59):
Well, I'm Lakeisha Mosley.
I am a mental health advocateand disruptor.
I am here to disrupt yourstatus quo about what mental
health is and isn't.
I actually got here beingsomeone who actually suffered a
breakdown.
As a woman in business, as amom, I actually hit overload and
(01:24):
was diagnosed with highfunctioning depression, and from
that moment I decided that noother women would be in silence.
No one else had to struggle insilence to figure out those
pieces, to pick up their life asan entrepreneur.
It's a lot different than ifyou work a job.
You just take time off, butwhat do you do as an
entrepreneur?
It's not like you can just shutdown your business and keep
(01:46):
going.
So I want to help women learnhow to stop swapping their
sanity for success.
Melissa (01:53):
I love that, yeah, yeah , it's a revolutionary concept
that we can have both.
And then you throw in being amom and it's like no way.
And they grow, melissa, butthey still are men.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter, even ifthey're 50, they're still a mess
.
Yes, well, I love this topicbecause I think that mental
(02:16):
health, I mean it's an importanttopic for us to talk about
anyway.
Right, it's something that wedon't talk about enough in our
society.
It's something that we don'ttalk about enough as women, but
it's definitely something that Irarely hear talked about in the
entrepreneurial space, and thatwas one of the reasons that I
wanted to have you on the show.
So tell me, what have younoticed in the time, either your
(02:36):
own experience or working withother entrepreneurs?
What are some of the mentalhealth challenges that you've
seen that are kind of unique towomen entrepreneurs?
LaKisha (02:47):
I will say, first and foremost, because women we as
women are nurturers.
A unique piece is trying tonurture yourself.
In this space, we know how totake care of other folks.
(03:09):
We want to take care of us.
That's a challenge of I got tokeep going.
I need to keep going.
I got to get this done.
My family got to, you know, myfamily got to eat.
I got to create a legacy.
I got to do this Like girl sitdown, because if you're not good
, nothing else is going to comeup.
Come right, you know we'll bewell.
I know that's a huge challengefor women.
Also, we don't like to be veryvulnerable or transparent in
(03:36):
this space.
We don't know how to ask forhelp.
We feel like we should have theanswers figured out as the
nurturers, as the person whobrings it all together, whether
you are single or you aremarried, a lot of times you're
carrying the weight of yourhousehold, you're carrying the
weight of your family, and so wedon't know how to say I don't
(03:58):
have it, I ain't got it, I ain'tgot it, I don't have it.
That's a huge challenge becausein a space where we have to be
not only competitive with men,we're competing with each other.
We don't want to say we don'thave it or we don't know.
So I feel like that's a reallybig challenge for us and it
(04:20):
keeps us in this space whereit's just a spiral, it's just a
cycle of not matter.
Melissa (04:27):
Yeah, and I think too, as entrepreneurs, no matter who
you are, I think you still havethis need to appear a certain
way to everybody else.
Right, we all have some degreeof imposter syndrome, and so we
want to make sure that peopleare taking us seriously, that
people see us as successful.
You know, you and I weretalking before we started
recording.
(04:47):
I recently started working apart-time job at Starbucks and I
had so much mind drama aboutthat and, like, what if people
find out and if this is soembarrassing, I have a part-time
job?
Right, like, who's ever goingto take my advice now on how to
build a successful business whenI'm working at Starbucks?
Also, right, like we have allof these unrealistic
(05:08):
expectations of ourselves.
And also, we worry, like noone's going to take me seriously
if they find out I haven'tshowered in the last three days
because I've been so deep indepression.
Right, like, who's going towant to work with me as a coach
or trust me to design theirwebsite or whatever it is, when
they know that I am sometimessuffering from debilitating
(05:31):
anxiety?
So we worry so much about, like, how we appear to other people,
and I think that's a huge partof it too, don't you think?
Yes, it's absolutely.
LaKisha (05:40):
It's probably one of the biggest pieces in this whole
journey, because I hate to saystruggle, but in this whole
journey of how we move aboutjust in our place like girl me
too, I didn't know that that wasokay, or I didn't know that
(06:09):
that was real.
I'll get that all the time Likedang, I didn't know that was
real.
Like you'll see me post likeI'm in crises right now and
they're like, oh, you're smilingand grinning on Instagram.
Yeah, but deep down inside,honey, I am really going through
whatever it is.
So appearances yeah, we got tobe together, Melissa, we have to
, you know.
Melissa (06:29):
Yeah, and what's so crazy is that I ended up posting
on Facebook about getting a joband about this stigma that we
have as entrepreneurs about like, oh, if I have to get a job, I
failed right and nobody's goingto take me seriously.
And I probably have 200comments on that post from women
that are like, oh my God, metoo.
Thank you so much for sayingthis.
(06:50):
I've been thinking aboutgetting a job, but I'm really
struggling with these samethings.
It's like something verymagical and empowering happens
when we're willing to show upauthentically Right, Like nobody
commented on that.
I was like, oh my God, what aloser.
I can't believe you have a job.
LaKisha (07:07):
Right, it's the stories we tell ourselves, it's the
narratives that we painted inour head, because that's how
we're judging ourselves.
It's not necessarily howsomeone else is judging us, it's
how we we are judging ourselves.
Anybody who hears me talk aboutmy job.
I'm like, I'm not ever leaving,I'm not quitting, I will work
(07:27):
that job and I'm going to workthis business.
Yeah, I'm leaving, honey.
I love my job.
Yeah, I absolutely love it, andI have a lot of flexibility and
I feel like, if the business,not if, when the business blows
up and gets really big, I amgoing to find a way to still
work part-time because I lovewhat I do.
(07:49):
So for me, I feel like it's thebest thing to do, because you
know, with entrepreneurship itebbs and flows so much.
But this is a constant that Iwill always have and I think it
helps me with the cognitivepieces, because your business is
one thing and you know, butlisten, when you think about it,
we do this.
(08:10):
It's rinse and repeat, rinseand repeat.
Sometimes with the job it's notso much that, because there are
different nuances, that kind ofshow up in different spaces.
So I think it's admirable ofyou to do that.
I think it teaches people thatyou don't have to stay stuck in
this mindset of oh, if I don'tget a job, I fail.
No, I think that's smart foryou to do that, especially if
(08:33):
you know what your situation is.
Melissa (08:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think we just love this Like I think
we're, I think we're coming offof it.
I think there was a big swingof like all of these business
coaches and life coaches andonline marketers that were like,
look at me on my private jetand I barely work and I'm so
happy and my life is so perfectand I sit on the beach and make
millions and millions of dollars.
And I think we're now coming toa new place where it's like
(08:59):
okay, let's all be real, and Iappreciate that so much.
So one of the things that youtalked about early on is how
it's a lot harder as anentrepreneur because you can't
just take a day off, or at leastyou feel like you can't take a
day off.
So what are some of thesuggestions that you have for
people who may be strugglingwith mental health issues and
(09:20):
are also trying to run abusiness, and how can they take
care of themselves without alsocompromising their business
goals?
LaKisha (09:29):
I would say first, just breathe, number one, and
recognize that you are not alone.
There are many of us, even ifyou feel it that you're alone.
There are many of us who are onthis journey of oh my gosh, I'm
in this really bad place or I'mreally, really struggling
(09:51):
through some stuff.
Just breathe and recognize thatyou're not alone, even if it
feels like that.
And the first step is not tofix everything.
It is simply to acknowledgethat you need support and that
you need to reach out for it,because a lot of people feel
like, oh my gosh, let me go fixit.
I need to figure it out.
First thing, you need torecognize that there is a
(10:12):
problem and that you needsupport in fixing that problem.
Now, that could mean, you know,calling a friend, reaching out
to a therapist they are, that isalways an option or really just
saying to yourself I can'tcarry this by myself anymore.
(10:33):
It's really just being realwith you.
I feel like women, especiallyentrepreneurs we are taught to
push through pain, like it'sadmirable to push through pain,
but really healing starts withpausing and asking for help.
We don't need the whole roadmapped out, we don't need to see
(10:56):
so far ahead, we just need totake one step, you know, at a
time, and sometimes, like youjust shared, is giving yourself
permission to just be okay withwhatever it is at that moment,
being okay with the decisionthat I have to make and not in
truth, and not choosing to staythere.
I think that's, that's very key.
Melissa (11:18):
Yeah, what advice do you have for people who struggle
with asking for help?
LaKisha (11:26):
I really want people to dig deep and figure out why do
you have an issue asking forhelp?
What has happened to you towhere you struggle with asking
for help?
A lot of times it's really inour childhood trauma.
I grew up with a mother who wasvery independent, taught me to
(11:47):
be very independent Even when itcame to men.
You don't need a man when itcame to men, you don't need a
man.
Like all these things whichreally really put you in bad
places when you have to engagewith other people.
It really puts you in badspaces.
So I would say first figure outwhy you are adverse to asking
(12:10):
for help, and that means that'ssome introspective work.
Like what do I feel when I askfor help?
Why am I bothered by asking forhelp and then taking a step
from whatever that is?
So, for instance, if you'relike well, I feel like a loser
when I ask for help.
I feel so unqualified when Iask for help, sometimes that may
(12:34):
be saying okay, girl, what yougot going on, I got this degree,
I got that degree, I made thisaccomplishment, I got that
accomplishment, I'm connected tothese people, I got this group
of great friends.
Sometimes it takes a get a girlboost Like this is you, you are
that chick, you are that chick,you are that girl.
And then from there, look atwhat's one thing I can do today
(12:56):
that I can possibly ask for helpin, and it's something that's
going to move the needle.
Not, hey, can you help mefigure out something small?
Like think of something thatwill move the needle for you If
you're working on a project andyou don't know how to do funnels
.
I got a friend right now that'slike I have no idea about
funnels and I'm like you'retalking to someone who knows I'm
(13:19):
not an expert in it, but I knowhow to do them.
And so she's like oh, I didn'teven think to ask you why not?
We talk like every other day,why not?
And so for her just sittingwith her 30 minutes and saying
(13:49):
let's map out what you want thisfunnel to look like.
And when we mapped it out,she's like, oh my gosh, I do
this already.
Yeah, cause that's what afunnel is.
You know she's already doingautomation in her newsletter.
When people join her email list.
She has a workflow.
Same thing.
Melissa (14:08):
Yeah, and sometimes that's all we need when it comes
to help, right?
Sometimes we just need somebodyto sit down with us and be like
look, you already have it andyou're like oh, why did I make
so much drama about this?
And I think we have to remembertoo, like two things can be true
at the same time.
Right, it can be that you areincredibly smart, you are a
brilliant life coach, you are afantastic mom, you have two
degrees, you have all theseaccomplishments and you don't
(14:32):
know how to build a funnel, likeone doesn't cancel all the
other ones out.
And I think sometimes in ourmind we think it does right,
like I can't be all of thesethings and also have to ask for
help with this Right, which iscompletely unrealistic but it
makes complete sense in our mindat the time.
Exactly Right Asking for afriend.
LaKisha (14:54):
Exactly, and I mean, I look at that for myself too.
You know it's a daily strugglesometimes, especially when
you're high functioning, becausehigh functioning you have to
keep work drives you.
When you're not working, that'swhen sometimes the pressure set
in.
It's really weird y'all.
But you look at the pieces andyou're like I literally sat on
(15:18):
this For what, when all I had todo was this and yes, I'm
accomplished.
I have awards in these things,but I don't know how to build a
website.
Does that cancel out the factthat I'm still that girl?
Melissa (15:34):
Right, yeah, and there's no award for like.
Did it the hardest way, right?
I was thinking that when youwere talking about how we're
taught to like, push throughpain and how there's this big
thing with women who have babies, that's like.
Oh, I did it without anepidural Like, why, why?
LaKisha (15:50):
would you girl Give me mine?
I, why, why would you girl Giveme mine?
I had both times Hurry up.
Melissa (15:54):
Right, because there's no award for like.
Survived the most pain.
Right, built the funnel in thehardest way possible, took 15
weeks to build your own websitewhen you could have hired
somebody.
Like.
There's no award for that andit's also not going on your
website, right?
Like people aren't.
Like oh, should I hire her?
No, she didn't take 15 weeks tobuild her own website.
(16:17):
Right?
Like no one cares except you.
So one of the things that I'veheard you say before is that
mental health is a competitiveadvantage, and along those same
lines, I've also heard you saylike self-care is a business
investment.
So can you talk to us a littlebit about that and what that
(16:38):
means?
LaKisha (16:39):
So I think people are confused about what mental
health is to begin with.
And it's really being wellemotionally, spiritually,
emotionally, you know,physically, financially, like
it's everything Mental health weall have, but some of us live
(17:01):
with a mental illness.
So there's the difference inthat being mentally well is
strategically an advantage toyou, because now you know how to
manage a lot of pieces in yourlife.
Think about as an entrepreneur.
You know I have a dailyschedule when it's entrepreneur
day or time, but I can get oneemail that can throw that entire
(17:24):
schedule off If I am notmentally well.
It could throw me into a spiral.
Ask someone who's highfunctioning who is rigid with
the schedule.
Ask someone who's highfunctioning who is rigid with
the schedule.
Like, rigid with the schedule,but I have to be emotionally
healthy to be able to say, oh soI can't do that at this moment.
(17:44):
Let me pivot here.
Whereas I could email thatperson back and be like, oh no,
I can't get this done, I'm sorry, I've already got my schedule
for the day.
Ok, now what?
Now you're, you're not reallyacting in the best interest of
your company.
It's almost, melissa, I thinkin a way you can say, being able
(18:07):
to pivot, just verystrategically be able to pivot.
It's very advantageous to bementally well and I'm not saying
to not struggle at all, but I'msaying to be mentally well that
when those things come up andthose feelings come up, you have
tips, tools and strategies thatsay okay, lakeisha, this isn't
in your schedule, this couldthrow this off, you may have to
put something over, but if thisis more important, let's get to
(18:28):
it.
I think that is what makes you,as a business owner, super,
super competitive as it relatesto other people, because think
about who else you're workingwith.
They may have said that tothree people and you were the
only one that said give me toend of day, I got this.
Or hey, I can figure this, I'llgive me till tomorrow, where
(18:49):
somebody else may be like, oh mygosh, I'm just not going to
respond at all, or someone hasresponded negatively to whatever
that may be.
So I think when, holistically,you are well and you can run
your business, from thatstandpoint you are such a
superpower.
As, related to everything else,I think how you get there is
(19:11):
the practice of self-care.
I think how you get there isthe practice of self-care and
self-care.
I hate to be negative on thisit's not spa days.
I knew that was coming it isnot a spa day.
It is not getting your hair done, it is not getting okay.
For me it is not those things.
(19:33):
Those things enhance myself-care.
So if I go to the nail salonand I only get like pedicures
y'all, I don't get nails done.
But I am not at ease because Iam watching her the whole time
(19:54):
so she doesn't cut my darncuticles or the water's not too
hot, like I can't really relax.
Melissa (19:56):
No, you're doing it wrong.
LaKisha (19:57):
Lakisha, I don't want to judge your pedicure, but
you're doing it wrong I that tome is not a part of self-care,
um, because I'm I gotta answeryou every five minutes.
Yeah, about something um thechair, the massage pieces.
(20:17):
It's just not it for me.
Melissa (20:18):
The lady next to you is talking on speakerphone so loud
about something that's going onwith their booty that we don't
all need to hear about yes, it'sbad, you already know.
LaKisha (20:28):
And then you want me to make decisions.
What color do I want on my toes?
I mean, yeah.
So for me, real self-care isreally more so about boundaries
and discipline.
It's saying no to a client thatdrains your energy.
It's going to therapy.
It's setting office hours.
It is eating or drinkingsomething they coffee and vibes
(20:54):
Like it's giving yourselfpermission, Melissa, to rest
without guilt.
It is really about that Again.
It's looking at and askingquestions.
We don't question ourselvesenough.
We question everybody elsesometimes, but we don't question
ourselves enough what the heckis sucking the life out of me or
(21:16):
what is serving me.
We're not asking thosequestions because you know both
of us they're cute, but if youget out the tub and you still
feel like you drowning in yourown schedule or in your own
email, that wasn't self-care.
Yeah, that was just anintermission to what you got to
get back to.
I just feel like you know, realself-care is probably unsexy to
(21:41):
some people.
It's not very glamorous.
It's really having these hardconversations with yourself and
the people who may be affectingthat.
It's also protecting your peacelike it's your profit, Like
it's really about beingintentional being intentional on
how you spend your energy,because energy is currency.
(22:02):
It's currency Especially for anentrepreneur.
Melissa (22:06):
Yeah, yeah, it brings me back to like I know this is a
very cliche, overused phrase,but like the whole idea of put
your own oxygen mask on first,right, or you can't pour from an
empty cup, or whatever thesaying is.
I think it's very true.
As moms, we struggle with thata lot.
We will give our last bit ofoxygen to everyone else before
(22:31):
we're even like, oh, I can'tbreathe, or same for business
owners, right.
Especially when we feel like wehave something to prove or
we're in that like holy shit, Ineed to make money right now.
Space or whatever it is right.
It's like shit, I need to makemoney right now.
Space or whatever it is Right.
It's like I.
So much of it is being able tosay like, yes, I can rearrange
things to accommodate this andalso knowing when it's okay to
(22:53):
say I actually can't rearrangethings, you'll have to find
someone else.
Absolutely.
LaKisha (22:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
We have to be okay with that.
And now that everybody's notgoing to like us or even cut for
that, one of the first things Idid after being diagnosed and
going to therapy and my businesswas one of those things that
was sapping the energy out of it, out of me.
I was working with people, um,that I didn't even like, like
(23:20):
why we own this business.
It's not like when you go towork, like you got to work with
these people.
You know you got to work withthe clients or customers that
come in the door.
You got to.
But if I own a business and Iprovide a service and or a
product, I don't necessarilyhave to work with you if I don't
want to work with you.
And that was one of the firstthings.
My therapist was like I knowyou love events, you love this
(23:41):
piece, but you love events, youlove this piece, but why are you
working with people you don'tlike?
And I was like and it was aboutthe money.
But when I really clear andstarted x-ing out the people, my
clientele list, that just wasnot good.
The money came up because thenI started attracting the right
(24:03):
people.
Melissa (24:04):
Yeah, I started, yeah, and right people.
Yeah, I started and you wereshowing up a different way.
You were probably a lot morecreative.
Your content was probably a lotdifferent.
The way that you wereconnecting with people was a lot
different, because you weren'talways in this space of like, oh
, but yes, got really clear, andthen I think that's what
intentionality comes in when youare no-transcript.
(24:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Is there anything else?
Before we wrap up, I feel likewe've covered a lot of different
things and I really really likethe distinction that you made
about mental health and mentalillness, cause I think sometimes
people think I don't, I don'tneed to listen to this podcast
about mental health, I'm notdepressed, I don't have anxiety
whatever.
I don't need to listen to thispodcast about mental health.
(25:08):
I'm not depressed, I don't haveanxiety whatever, and really
mental health affects all of us,so is there anything?
LaKisha (25:17):
that we haven't touched on, that you feel like is
really important, that you wantto share.
I think the main thing,especially now we hear a lot
about you know the hustleculture, hustle, hustle, like we
wear busy as a badge of honor.
Stop it, stop it.
There's no badge of honor.
If you pass out today, thesefolks gonna keep kicking.
(25:38):
And now you're over here likefeeling bad about whatever.
We carry a lot of guilt becauseI feel like we're such
nurturers and givers we overgiveand when you look at your
mental health, you give justenough.
We talk about the cup beingfull.
(25:58):
We can't pour it from an emptycup.
Start filling your cup and yourcup will overflow.
I think a lot of female foundersspecifically confused success
with suffering.
We think the harder that westruggle, the more invalidates
what we're doing.
It is not like it's not y'all.
(26:20):
I really feel like we can't runour businesses.
Like it's the emergency roomyou know how a triage looks.
We're triaging all day long.
Like that doesn't make sense tome.
I really feel like we need toreally tap into ourselves and
sometimes, melissa, that'ssitting with yourself and asking
these really hard questionswhat brings me joy?
(26:42):
What doesn't bring me joy?
What things sap the energy.
Who, what, where, what bringssaps the energy out of me and I
need to figure out how toeliminate those things.
But how do I get back to happy?
When was the last time I washappy?
When was the last time I didsomething I enjoyed?
And sometimes we don't want to,you know, dive deep, but it's
really great for your mentalhealth to be able to do those
(27:04):
things.
Melissa (27:05):
Yeah, those are really really good questions.
This is all so good.
It's funny because I makegraphics from these podcasts
with, like quotes from theguests and you keep saying
things that I'm like, oh, that'sgoing to be a good quote, oh,
that's going to be, but I justfound my my the best one is
going to be stop it.
That's going to be your wholequote.
Stop it, lakeisha Mosley.
It's going to go viral.
(27:34):
I already know.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
This has been so good.
If people want to stayconnected with you, I don't know
why they wouldn't, because youare amazing but what is the best
way for them to learn moreabout you, what you do and be in
your world?
LaKisha (27:44):
Well, my playground is Instagram.
I don't fool with that TikToktoo much.
And you would think, because Igravitate toward women
entrepreneurs, I'm on LinkedIn alot.
I am not.
It's so boring, it's veryboring.
I hate it.
I can't.
Melissa (28:01):
Sorry, LinkedIn lovers.
LaKisha (28:03):
Yeah, ig is my playground and I am DM friendly.
You can jump in my DMs.
I will respond to you now.
It may take me a day, but I'mgoing to respond to you so you
can follow me at Lakeisha MMosley on all platforms.
I do have TikTok, I do haveLinkedIn, I do have Facebook,
but IG is where you can find me,or on my website at
(28:27):
wwwlakeshamosleycom.
Melissa (28:29):
Awesome.
I will put the links for bothof those in the show notes.
And I think you mentioned youhave a mental health crisis plan
, right?
Yes, can you tell us a littlebit?
LaKisha (28:39):
about that.
Yes, I love this plan y'all,because a lot of times people
don't know what to do for uswhen we are in a bad space and
anything can trigger us.
So, as someone who is a highfunctioning depressant, this is
on my phone, I have it on myrefrigerator and my closest
(29:00):
tribe has it with them.
It's really a plan to write outwhat happens if, if you see me
do this, then this is what youdo for me.
And then at the bottom it hassome important numbers like to
988, to NAMI and some otherplaces, but sometimes it can
literally be call my daughter,call my husband, call my friend.
(29:23):
But it really gives people aplan of how to bet, how to take
care of me, without me having totell you anything, cause if I'm
really triggered I won't beable to communicate with you how
you can take care of me in thatmoment.
Melissa (29:38):
Yeah, that's brilliant.
So people can get their handson that on your website as well.
LaKisha (29:44):
Yes, awesome.
Melissa (29:46):
That's so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
I will put all those links inthe show notes and I appreciate
you so much.
LaKisha (29:53):
Thank you.
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