July 16, 2025 • 25 mins
Jenn Zella is the Co-Founding Principal and Chief Visionary Officer of CID Design Group, an intentional design firm that creates authentic interiors and inspired brands that engage, elevate, and endure. With a deep-rooted passion for collaboration, the creative process, and what she terms Conscious Design, Jenn believes in the power of design to make the world a happier, healthier, and more beautiful place.
With over 25 years of experience and stemming from a long family legacy of design, architecture, development, and construction, Jenn has been a catalyst for CID’s growth and evolution, earning recognition as one of the Top 100 design firms by Interior Design Magazine for eight consecutive years.
As a thought leader and creative visionary, Jenn frequently speaks nationally, sharing insights on future-forward and human-centric design, leading with heart and purpose, building a culture of trust, and coaching creativity. She has championed the intersection of design and well-being, creating spaces that support individuals in becoming their best selves. She also embodies this philosophy by integrating well-being into CID’s Blue Zone Certified workplace, including a dedicated Wellness Studio that prioritizes holistic health, mindful movement, and self-care.
With a team based in 11 states and 30 cities, CID has taken a bold approach in the design industry, embracing a predominantly virtual creative workplace, redefining how we design, collaborate, and fuel culture leveraging deep tech and high trust.
Jenn believes in leading and creating with love, with an open mind, and in collaboration with others. None of us are as smart as all of us.
A Few Quotes From This Episode
- “Having fun is elemental to being our best and to enjoying the journey together.”
- “Engage, elevate, endure—that’s our mantra for everything we create.”
- “Physical presence in a seat at a desk does not equate to accountability.”
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
- Book: The Creative Act by Rick Rubin
About The International Leadership Association (ILA)
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About Scott J. Allen
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Allen (00:00):
Okay, everybody, welcome to Practical Wisdom for
Leaders.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
I am honored today to have JennZella.
She is the co-founding,principal and chief visionary
officer of CID Design Group, anintentional design firm that
creates authentic interiors andinspired brands that engage,
elevate and endure.
(00:20):
With a deep-rooted passion forcollaboration, the creative
process and what she termsconscious design, Jenn believes
in the power of design to makethe world a happier, healthier
and more beautiful place.
With a team based in 11 statesand 30 cities, cid has taken a
bold approach in the designindustry, embracing a
predominantly virtual creativeworkplace, redefining how we
(00:43):
design, collaborate and fuelculture, leveraging deep tech
and high trust.
Jenn believes in leading andcreating with love, with an open
mind and in collaboration withothers.
None of us are as smart as allof us.
Jenn, thank you so much forbeing with me today.
Jenn Zella (01:00):
Well, I just want to thank you for having me on as
well, and, just as like a momentof gratitude, I also want to
thank all of the leaders andmentors and coaches that I've
been so fortunate to learn fromover the years, and I guess
that's what today is about.
Is, you know, we all go alongthis journey and we learn
something along the way, andhopefully there's something that
we can share with others thatwill help them evolve and become
(01:22):
their best, that we can sharewith others that will help them
evolve and become their best.
You know, we've just alwaysbeen a humble, no ego group that
is willing to learn from others.
Scott Allen (01:30):
You know which is just so important to be open.
So, Jenn, tell me about CIDDesign.
I know it's an incredible place.
I was there in January of thisyear and could literally feel
the warmth, the energy, theenthusiasm in your team as I
walked through the halls andinteracted with them at the
retreat.
So what are a couple things weneed to know about CID design?
Jenn Zella (01:53):
We're just a group of co-creators and we love to
have a lot of fun, which I dobelieve that you know.
Having fun is elemental tobeing our best and to enjoying
the journey together.
Scott Allen (02:07):
Awesome.
I love the phrasing designed toengage, elevate and endure, so
would you talk a little bitabout that?
Those are three just reallybeautiful words engage, elevate
and endure.
Jenn Zella (02:20):
Yeah, it's our mantra, it's our approach to how
we do what we do.
So engagement number one wehave a human centric approach to
our work, really understandingwho we're creating for what they
value, what they need, and thenelevating.
For us is all about ensuringthat what we do is better than
(02:40):
the last.
You know, it keeps evolving,it's unique in the marketplace,
unlike anything else.
And then, lastly, we focus onendurance.
We call it design longevity,you know, ensuring that what we
do stands the test of time.
Scott Allen (02:55):
Yeah, so I love how that can be applied to client
work, right?
I mean, that appliesbeautifully there, but I think
it also could apply to just theculture of your organization.
I mean engage, elevate andendure.
And so how do you think aboutthat in relation to
organizational culture?
(03:16):
Because you've been at this foryears and you've been building
this culture for years, and it'sa very, very special place.
Jenn Zella (03:23):
Yeah, it's interesting and so insightful
because we also create brands.
We create brands and spaces andthat is sort of our approach to
creating those things.
And you think about it a brand,and creating and designing a
brand and creating thearchitecture of a brand, it's
essentially the same as creatinga culture yes, think about it,
(03:44):
and it does take intentionalityand a a culture.
Yes, think about it, you know,and it does take intentionality
and a creation process.
Scott Allen (03:48):
Yeah, one thing I love in the world of kind of
problem solving and, again,design, is this notion of
experimentation and I would loveto talk a little bit about some
of the experiments you've run,as you've really worked to shape
the culture and maybe there'ssome experiments that have just
paid off wildly well and maybethere's some experiments that
(04:10):
didn't pay off well.
But I think in that process Imean literally when it comes to
culture and designing culturethere's no one you can call in
the world and say, hey, this isJenn from Naples, I'm trying to
design culture.
What are the four steps?
It just doesn't happen rightand it's kind of it's this
(04:31):
process and this experimentation.
So would you talk a little bitabout that experimentation over
the years to get where you aretoday.
Jenn Zella (04:35):
Yeah, I actually think what's so interesting
about this is that we are in acreative space and so we talk a
lot as a design firm about thecreative process and how do we
actually create and what placedoes that actually come from?
And you know, the notion ofexperimentation is such an
important conversation becausewe think of it, as you know,
(04:56):
especially early on in thecreation process.
We think about, like, loweringthe bar and thinking about it
just being a sandbox and abouttrying things and not being
fearful of making mistakes.
Love it, Because I think whatwe've learned over the years is
that we continue to adapt.
If something doesn't work, wejust pivot and we try a
different way, and we'regrateful that our team gives us
(05:19):
grace to make mistakes, becauseI think we're designing that way
.
We're talking about that whenwe're creating brands and
creating spaces.
You know that if somethingdoesn't work, you just try again
.
You start again.
Scott Allen (05:31):
I love it.
And so what are a couple ofthings that you've stumbled upon
that maybe you didn't know weregoing to work when it comes to
culture and experimenting aroundculture and have just paid off
wildly well?
What are a couple of thoseexperiments?
Jenn Zella (05:43):
I mean regarding building culture and
communicating it clearly.
I'll say that early on, andI'll say, like our first 10
years as a company, it was funny.
Our first business coach thatcame in asked us what our you
know core values and culture was, and what we said to him was we
care about everything.
And he's like whoa, whoa, whoa.
I mean I get that.
(06:04):
You know, you guys arepassionate and you big lovers
and you care about everything,you want everything, you write
every little detail andeverything.
But he's like, if you care abouteverything, you know you can't
be clear about.
You know, really, what is mostimportant, and so he helped us
distill that down to truly whatwas most important.
I also, you know, one veryearly lesson was that, you know,
(06:26):
we really had to ensure thatthe values that we aligned
ourself with were trulyauthentic to who we were as
people.
You know, because we have totruly operate that way through
and through.
And so, you know, as wedesigned, I'll say that culture
and what we decided to trulyvalue the most and to really
lean into were things thatelevated creativity and that
(06:49):
allowed for creativity to trulyflourish.
Scott Allen (06:52):
I love that.
So there's this process of kindof distilling down who we are
and who we want to be, but thenalso this process of really
tapping into those values thatspeak to us, that truly
represent who we want to be, andfrom there I mean you've got
this rock solid kind offoundation.
Jenn Zella (07:12):
Yeah, and again, this was part of the journey and
process of really understandingthat not only do we have to
completely operate that way, butwe needed to assemble a group
of people and attractlike-minded people that believed
the same thing, and clients too.
You know we share that withevery single new client.
(07:35):
You know who we are.
We're very clear about that sothat you know ultimately we find
our way to like-minded clientsand business partners as well.
Scott Allen (07:43):
Well, and what a wonderful way to be.
I mean because I remember thatnow that you just said that when
I was with you in Januarytalking about how that is
communicated who we are, what westand for, our values, how we
work, that's communicated toclients, but it's so critical to
communicate it to potentialemployees in the recruitment
process, because are weattracting both clients but also
(08:06):
co-workers who value what wevalue and want to be a part of
this journey with us?
Jenn Zella (08:14):
Yeah, it is critical and you know we don't lose
sight of it either.
It's not something that is justtalked about through the
recruitment process.
It's something that's talkedabout every single quarterly
conversation that we have.
We have a citizen awards no punintended CID citizen awards
ceremony every single year,where we talk about it's a peer
nominated award, you know, foralignment with the values of our
(08:36):
group and our people.
So it's something that has tobe, you know, continuously
focused on and we have to alwaysbe aware of and it just keeps
us.
So, I mean, we have found thatit creates so much harmony and
so much cohesiveness and,truthfully, if we're going to
talk about WorkWell Anywhere andsort of our hybrid, remote
approach to how we've structuredour company, it has been the
(08:58):
foundation.
It has been what has made ittruly possible is being, you
know, in alignment with oneanother.
Scott Allen (09:08):
Yes, well, ok, so let's talk a little bit about
that, because you have come outstrong and said look, we are a
remote workforce.
We're very clear on who we are,who we want to be as an
organization.
We're going to recruit peoplewho value what we value, but we
also are going to let peoplework where they are.
So talk a little bit about thatand how that's paid off, and
(09:30):
maybe even are there a couple ofthings that we just haven't
figured out totally 100% yet,because I love the fact that
you've planted that flag.
Jenn Zella (09:39):
Yeah Well, first I want to talk about why we went
there, cause I think you know,as Simon always says, start with
why.
You know the true purpose wasthat we were solving, for you
know how do we grow as a companyand work with the best and the
brightest people?
While operating our headquartersout of Southwest Florida, I
(09:59):
think within our first fiveyears or so of being located in
this marketplace, we realizedthat, although the beach is
amazing, you know we're notgoing to be able to attract and
retain all of the talent and thecaliber of talent that we know
we need to work with.
To are number one, we've got tocollect and work with the best
(10:24):
and the brightest, and so if wecould remove that barrier of,
you know, acquiring talentthat's willing to relocate, then
you know we have access to somuch more.
So we figured out a way to doit and, truthfully, in the
design industry, it has alwaysbeen such a barrier to work
remote or hybrid because of ourphysicality, with materials and
(10:48):
finishes and products, and alsoalways thought that
collaboration needs to bephysically, you know, in person
to be, you know, but that is theway it was done for so many
years, and so I understand thetendency to want to go back to
what's comfortable, but we setout to solve for how to make
this happen because we knew itwas so important.
Scott Allen (11:08):
And so what are a couple of lessons learned and
observations on that journey?
I imagine one, because you know, as a leader you know this
better than anyone You'reconstantly managing these
different tensions.
So, hey, we have to meet budget, but we also have to innovate
and experiment and try some newthings.
Or we want to be anorganization that is empathetic
(11:30):
with our employees and we alsoneed people to do their job.
And if we get out of balance,if we're too heavy handed and
everyone's being heldaccountable and we're
micromanaging, then we're out ofbalance.
But if we're allowing people tomaybe not do their job, then
we're out of balance as well.
And so you're constantlymanaging these different
tensions.
So what are a coupleobservations you've had in
(11:54):
moving into this as a core, kindof foundational belief of the
organization?
Jenn Zella (11:59):
Well, again going back to the why and sort of the
biggest aha as we've movedthrough this process, I'll say
it comes down to oh, there's somany things trust for people to
live the lifestyle they wish, tobe close to the people that
(12:28):
they hold dear, to care for anelderly grandparent that might
be somewhere else on the otherside of the country.
Yet they're a perfect person.
Scott Allen (12:35):
We want to work with them, we've trained them,
we've developed, and so itoffers so much freedom 100%, and
I think it also allows for adegree of autonomy in the sense
that core need for human beingsis to feel free.
I think all of the research onwhat makes someone happy in
their role is if there is somelevel of autonomy.
(12:58):
So it's not that you have tohave your butt in this seat, in
this location, for eight hours,these specific eight hours, but
it's that we're going to giveyou autonomy and freedom to
decide.
Obviously, there's going to bemeetings that we have to attend,
but it doesn't matter if youwake up at 5 am and work from 5
to 7 and really plow onsomething that needs to be
(13:20):
accomplished, or if you go on awalk at noon or at 11 am, but
the expectation is you're goingto meet your requirements, but
that autonomy and that freedomis allowed to these individuals.
Jenn Zella (13:33):
Yeah, we certainly have found that physical
presence in a seat, at a deskdoes not equate to
accountability, and so, you know, I'll say that this business
model has forced us to be better, with so many things like
accountability, everyone havingmetrics and measurables so that
(13:58):
we know that they're doing.
You know what they need to bedoing.
They just get it done, you know, in their own way, I'll say so,
giving true autonomy, I suppose.
But what has made all of thispossible is to start with this
strong foundation of trust andof culture, and that is what has
allowed this to be trulysuccessful, I believe.
Scott Allen (14:21):
Yeah, oh, 100%.
I mean, I think, beginning witha spirit of trust, hiring the
best, here are our values.
Do you align with these valueswe're going to trust?
And then again, you have somebackend systems in place.
Look, there's very, very clearmetrics and there's very clear
mechanisms for accountability,because we have to get the work
(14:44):
done.
We're here to serve the clientsand do our best work and live
those three words engage,elevate and endure.
And one thing I'm superinterested in is just a couple
reflections from you as we beginto wind down our time.
What have you learned aboutyourself as a leader in the last
25 plus years?
I imagine it's constantly.
(15:06):
New insights are presentingthemselves as you enter into new
situations and contexts.
But what are some keyreflections there?
Jenn Zella (15:15):
Maybe first number one is just the notion of having
a growth mindset and of thisjust tireless pursuit of
becoming better and evolving.
You know, maybe the second thatI'll cite is truly leading with
heart, loving what you do,loving why you're here doing it,
(15:37):
loving the people that you'redoing it with.
I think has been one of thebest and most important focuses.
Scott Allen (15:45):
Would you talk a little bit about leading with
heart?
Could you unpack that just alittle bit?
I love the phrasing and again,listeners can feel the warmth
here.
I'm going to begin with trustand I'm going to start there,
and we're going to begin withour values and then leading with
heart.
What are a couple of thingsthat come to mind of examples of
leading with heart?
Jenn Zella (16:05):
I guess I do believe that the heart is the center of
our creative universe.
You know, you talk to anyartist, any creator.
That is the place from which wesing, we write, we create.
I believe that leading fromthat same center is equally
important.
You know, it's a truthful place, it's an authentic place and,
(16:30):
as you said, you know, it doescreate or it does allow for
vulnerability, which, when wetalk about the creative process,
you know you've got to create aspace where people feel like
they can truly be vulnerable toshare their ideas, you know, and
their thoughts and then allowfor those to be built upon and
(16:52):
adapted and continued andfurthered through collaboration.
Scott Allen (16:57):
I mean, just even in your phrasing right there,
some things kind of come to mindfor me, and it was in your bio.
None of us is as smart as allof us.
So it's opening up to others,it's creating that place of
psychological safety, and it'sless about whether it's my idea
or your idea, it's what is thebest idea and let's go on a
(17:19):
pursuit to find what is the bestsolution for this space or what
is the best solution for ourculture.
But there's an openness therethat I just really love and
there's a warmth there.
And again, that doesn't meanthat you're not making hard
decisions.
That doesn't mean that you'renot holding people accountable,
(17:39):
but I think there's a centerfrom which everything begins,
because, of course, course,you've had to let people go over
the course of your tenure.
Of course those are.
You've had the toughconversations when people aren't
meeting expectations, but we'regoing to start from a place
that is very, very grounded.
I mean, that's kind of what I'mhearing and what I'm discerning
.
Is that somewhat accurate?
Jenn Zella (18:01):
Yeah, I think when you're super clear about you
know just clarity in general,clear about who you are, clear
about what the role, is clearabout what people are
accountable for.
You find very quickly whethersomebody is in alignment with
that or not.
And the more clear you are, thequicker you discover that.
Yes, yeah.
Scott Allen (18:19):
You know you're starting from a place of trust,
You're starting in a place fromthe heart, from being human
centric, that is.
It's just a good place to startfrom.
Jenn Zella (18:30):
And if only we all started from there, you know,
early on in our business journey.
You know it took us time tofind our way there and to really
understand.
That was essentially the key toit, at least for us.
Scott Allen (18:43):
Yeah, that's a good place to kind of pause for
today.
I always wind down theseconversations by asking guests
what they've been listening to,what they've been reading, what
they've been streaming.
It could have to do with whatwe've discussed today.
It could have nothing to dowith what we've discussed today,
but what's caught yourattention in recent times.
Jenn Zella (19:02):
Yeah, Well, I guess, going along the topic of the
creative process, since we'vetalked a bit about that today
like a lot of leaders, I'mlistening always to so many
different things at all the sametime.
But the one that I'll highlightare frequencies.
So, you know, on Spotify orYouTube, you can search for
(19:22):
frequency music, for frequencymusic.
So every different song in thisuniverse has been created, you
know, at a certain harmonic or acertain frequency.
So, for example, mozart's musicwas all composed at 432 Hertz
Really, yes which is also thesame frequency of Tibetan sound
bowls.
(19:43):
It's also the same,interestingly, the same
frequency of planet Earth.
You know what's known as theSchumann residence.
So you can listen to all thesedifferent frequencies or
harmonics, depending on whatsort of state you're trying to
be in.
For example, when we sleep,it's best to try to sleep to
(20:04):
delta waves, because that putsyou into a really deep state of
sleep, nice, and so if you'retrying to get into a creative
state, you want to listen to 432hertz.
So I listen to a lot ofdifferent music that inspires
these different types offrequencies.
I've also been listening a lotto I don't know if any of you
are familiar with Rick Rubin,the author of the Creative Act
(20:27):
yes, one of my favorite booksever because you can just flip
to any page or any chapter andjust pick up and read something
wise.
But he has a beautiful podcastcalled Tetragrammaton and he
just has a lot of veryinteresting perspectives and
often they talk about thecreative process.
So I've been finding that quiteinteresting.
Scott Allen (20:47):
Yeah, I think probably in the last month I
listened to him and MatthewMcConaughey.
Often they talk about thecreative process, so I've been
finding that quite interesting.
Yeah, I think probably in thelast month I listened to him and
Matthew McConaughey, which wasa fun conversation.
Yeah, and Neil Young, which isalways an interesting
conversation, and so, yes, Ilistened to the creative act and
he reads it and it is such agreat, great book.
I mean to your point Speakingof wisdom, oh my gosh, it's just
(21:10):
absolutely incredible,Wonderful, wonderful resource.
And I'd never thought of thefrequencies, but I do have music
, Jenn, that if I need to work Ican put my headphones in and I
can put in specific music and Iwill just kind of float.
It brings me to a state of flowand I will float.
(21:31):
I won't hear.
A whole album will be done andI won't hear it, but I will have
floated on that and just zoomedforward with my tasks.
Jenn Zella (21:40):
Yes, we all have the music that we listen to when
we're trying to work out, orwe're trying to get in a groove,
or we're trying to relax.
You know, music is so powerful.
Scott Allen (21:50):
Yes, oh, 100%, 100% .
Okay, I will put links to acouple of those resources in the
show notes.
For all of you and Jen, thankyou so much for being with me
today.
I really, really appreciateyour time.
Thanks for the incredible workyou do, thank you for the
culture you're creating, and youknow what I just have so much
respect.
Jenn Zella (22:11):
Likewise, Scott.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Scott Allen (22:13):
Take care, be well.
I hope you could feel the heartin Jen's approach to leadership
and I think it's just aninspiring conversation of an
individual who has built anincredible organization, doing
incredible work out there in theworld and leading each and
every day designing culture notonly designing beautiful spaces,
(22:36):
but actively designing culture.
Jen, thank you so much forjoining me.
I appreciate you, appreciateyour great work.
Bye-bye.
Okay, everybody, welcome to Practical Wisdom for
Leaders.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
I am honored today to have JennZella.
She is the co-founding,principal and chief visionary
officer of CID Design Group, anintentional design firm that
creates authentic interiors andinspired brands that engage,
elevate and endure.
(00:20):
With a deep-rooted passion forcollaboration, the creative
process and what she termsconscious design, Jenn believes
in the power of design to makethe world a happier, healthier
and more beautiful place.
With a team based in 11 statesand 30 cities, cid has taken a
bold approach in the designindustry, embracing a
predominantly virtual creativeworkplace, redefining how we
(00:43):
design, collaborate and fuelculture, leveraging deep tech
and high trust.
Jenn believes in leading andcreating with love, with an open
mind and in collaboration withothers.
None of us are as smart as allof us.
Jenn, thank you so much forbeing with me today.
Jenn Zella (01:00):
Well, I just want to thank you for having me on as
well, and, just as like a momentof gratitude, I also want to
thank all of the leaders andmentors and coaches that I've
been so fortunate to learn fromover the years, and I guess
that's what today is about.
Is, you know, we all go alongthis journey and we learn
something along the way, andhopefully there's something that
we can share with others thatwill help them evolve and become
(01:22):
their best, that we can sharewith others that will help them
evolve and become their best.
You know, we've just alwaysbeen a humble, no ego group that
is willing to learn from others.
Scott Allen (01:30):
You know which is just so important to be open.
So, Jenn, tell me about CIDDesign.
I know it's an incredible place.
I was there in January of thisyear and could literally feel
the warmth, the energy, theenthusiasm in your team as I
walked through the halls andinteracted with them at the
retreat.
So what are a couple things weneed to know about CID design?
Jenn Zella (01:53):
We're just a group of co-creators and we love to
have a lot of fun, which I dobelieve that you know.
Having fun is elemental tobeing our best and to enjoying
the journey together.
Scott Allen (02:07):
Awesome.
I love the phrasing designed toengage, elevate and endure, so
would you talk a little bitabout that?
Those are three just reallybeautiful words engage, elevate
and endure.
Jenn Zella (02:20):
Yeah, it's our mantra, it's our approach to how
we do what we do.
So engagement number one wehave a human centric approach to
our work, really understandingwho we're creating for what they
value, what they need, and thenelevating.
For us is all about ensuringthat what we do is better than
(02:40):
the last.
You know, it keeps evolving,it's unique in the marketplace,
unlike anything else.
And then, lastly, we focus onendurance.
We call it design longevity,you know, ensuring that what we
do stands the test of time.
Scott Allen (02:55):
Yeah, so I love how that can be applied to client
work, right?
I mean, that appliesbeautifully there, but I think
it also could apply to just theculture of your organization.
I mean engage, elevate andendure.
And so how do you think aboutthat in relation to
organizational culture?
(03:16):
Because you've been at this foryears and you've been building
this culture for years, and it'sa very, very special place.
Jenn Zella (03:23):
Yeah, it's interesting and so insightful
because we also create brands.
We create brands and spaces andthat is sort of our approach to
creating those things.
And you think about it a brand,and creating and designing a
brand and creating thearchitecture of a brand, it's
essentially the same as creatinga culture yes, think about it,
(03:44):
and it does take intentionalityand a a culture.
Yes, think about it, you know,and it does take intentionality
and a creation process.
Scott Allen (03:48):
Yeah, one thing I love in the world of kind of
problem solving and, again,design, is this notion of
experimentation and I would loveto talk a little bit about some
of the experiments you've run,as you've really worked to shape
the culture and maybe there'ssome experiments that have just
paid off wildly well and maybethere's some experiments that
(04:10):
didn't pay off well.
But I think in that process Imean literally when it comes to
culture and designing culturethere's no one you can call in
the world and say, hey, this isJenn from Naples, I'm trying to
design culture.
What are the four steps?
It just doesn't happen rightand it's kind of it's this
(04:31):
process and this experimentation.
So would you talk a little bitabout that experimentation over
the years to get where you aretoday.
Jenn Zella (04:35):
Yeah, I actually think what's so interesting
about this is that we are in acreative space and so we talk a
lot as a design firm about thecreative process and how do we
actually create and what placedoes that actually come from?
And you know, the notion ofexperimentation is such an
important conversation becausewe think of it, as you know,
(04:56):
especially early on in thecreation process.
We think about, like, loweringthe bar and thinking about it
just being a sandbox and abouttrying things and not being
fearful of making mistakes.
Love it, Because I think whatwe've learned over the years is
that we continue to adapt.
If something doesn't work, wejust pivot and we try a
different way, and we'regrateful that our team gives us
(05:19):
grace to make mistakes, becauseI think we're designing that way
.
We're talking about that whenwe're creating brands and
creating spaces.
You know that if somethingdoesn't work, you just try again
.
You start again.
Scott Allen (05:31):
I love it.
And so what are a couple ofthings that you've stumbled upon
that maybe you didn't know weregoing to work when it comes to
culture and experimenting aroundculture and have just paid off
wildly well?
What are a couple of thoseexperiments?
Jenn Zella (05:43):
I mean regarding building culture and
communicating it clearly.
I'll say that early on, andI'll say, like our first 10
years as a company, it was funny.
Our first business coach thatcame in asked us what our you
know core values and culture was, and what we said to him was we
care about everything.
And he's like whoa, whoa, whoa.
I mean I get that.
(06:04):
You know, you guys arepassionate and you big lovers
and you care about everything,you want everything, you write
every little detail andeverything.
But he's like, if you care abouteverything, you know you can't
be clear about.
You know, really, what is mostimportant, and so he helped us
distill that down to truly whatwas most important.
I also, you know, one veryearly lesson was that, you know,
(06:26):
we really had to ensure thatthe values that we aligned
ourself with were trulyauthentic to who we were as
people.
You know, because we have totruly operate that way through
and through.
And so, you know, as wedesigned, I'll say that culture
and what we decided to trulyvalue the most and to really
lean into were things thatelevated creativity and that
(06:49):
allowed for creativity to trulyflourish.
Scott Allen (06:52):
I love that.
So there's this process of kindof distilling down who we are
and who we want to be, but thenalso this process of really
tapping into those values thatspeak to us, that truly
represent who we want to be, andfrom there I mean you've got
this rock solid kind offoundation.
Jenn Zella (07:12):
Yeah, and again, this was part of the journey and
process of really understandingthat not only do we have to
completely operate that way, butwe needed to assemble a group
of people and attractlike-minded people that believed
the same thing, and clients too.
You know we share that withevery single new client.
(07:35):
You know who we are.
We're very clear about that sothat you know ultimately we find
our way to like-minded clientsand business partners as well.
Scott Allen (07:43):
Well, and what a wonderful way to be.
I mean because I remember thatnow that you just said that when
I was with you in Januarytalking about how that is
communicated who we are, what westand for, our values, how we
work, that's communicated toclients, but it's so critical to
communicate it to potentialemployees in the recruitment
process, because are weattracting both clients but also
(08:06):
co-workers who value what wevalue and want to be a part of
this journey with us?
Jenn Zella (08:14):
Yeah, it is critical and you know we don't lose
sight of it either.
It's not something that is justtalked about through the
recruitment process.
It's something that's talkedabout every single quarterly
conversation that we have.
We have a citizen awards no punintended CID citizen awards
ceremony every single year,where we talk about it's a peer
nominated award, you know, foralignment with the values of our
(08:36):
group and our people.
So it's something that has tobe, you know, continuously
focused on and we have to alwaysbe aware of and it just keeps
us.
So, I mean, we have found thatit creates so much harmony and
so much cohesiveness and,truthfully, if we're going to
talk about WorkWell Anywhere andsort of our hybrid, remote
approach to how we've structuredour company, it has been the
(08:58):
foundation.
It has been what has made ittruly possible is being, you
know, in alignment with oneanother.
Scott Allen (09:08):
Yes, well, ok, so let's talk a little bit about
that, because you have come outstrong and said look, we are a
remote workforce.
We're very clear on who we are,who we want to be as an
organization.
We're going to recruit peoplewho value what we value, but we
also are going to let peoplework where they are.
So talk a little bit about thatand how that's paid off, and
(09:30):
maybe even are there a couple ofthings that we just haven't
figured out totally 100% yet,because I love the fact that
you've planted that flag.
Jenn Zella (09:39):
Yeah Well, first I want to talk about why we went
there, cause I think you know,as Simon always says, start with
why.
You know the true purpose wasthat we were solving, for you
know how do we grow as a companyand work with the best and the
brightest people?
While operating our headquartersout of Southwest Florida, I
(09:59):
think within our first fiveyears or so of being located in
this marketplace, we realizedthat, although the beach is
amazing, you know we're notgoing to be able to attract and
retain all of the talent and thecaliber of talent that we know
we need to work with.
To are number one, we've got tocollect and work with the best
(10:24):
and the brightest, and so if wecould remove that barrier of,
you know, acquiring talentthat's willing to relocate, then
you know we have access to somuch more.
So we figured out a way to doit and, truthfully, in the
design industry, it has alwaysbeen such a barrier to work
remote or hybrid because of ourphysicality, with materials and
(10:48):
finishes and products, and alsoalways thought that
collaboration needs to bephysically, you know, in person
to be, you know, but that is theway it was done for so many
years, and so I understand thetendency to want to go back to
what's comfortable, but we setout to solve for how to make
this happen because we knew itwas so important.
Scott Allen (11:08):
And so what are a couple of lessons learned and
observations on that journey?
I imagine one, because you know, as a leader you know this
better than anyone You'reconstantly managing these
different tensions.
So, hey, we have to meet budget, but we also have to innovate
and experiment and try some newthings.
Or we want to be anorganization that is empathetic
(11:30):
with our employees and we alsoneed people to do their job.
And if we get out of balance,if we're too heavy handed and
everyone's being heldaccountable and we're
micromanaging, then we're out ofbalance.
But if we're allowing people tomaybe not do their job, then
we're out of balance as well.
And so you're constantlymanaging these different
tensions.
So what are a coupleobservations you've had in
(11:54):
moving into this as a core, kindof foundational belief of the
organization?
Jenn Zella (11:59):
Well, again going back to the why and sort of the
biggest aha as we've movedthrough this process, I'll say
it comes down to oh, there's somany things trust for people to
live the lifestyle they wish, tobe close to the people that
(12:28):
they hold dear, to care for anelderly grandparent that might
be somewhere else on the otherside of the country.
Yet they're a perfect person.
Scott Allen (12:35):
We want to work with them, we've trained them,
we've developed, and so itoffers so much freedom 100%, and
I think it also allows for adegree of autonomy in the sense
that core need for human beingsis to feel free.
I think all of the research onwhat makes someone happy in
their role is if there is somelevel of autonomy.
(12:58):
So it's not that you have tohave your butt in this seat, in
this location, for eight hours,these specific eight hours, but
it's that we're going to giveyou autonomy and freedom to
decide.
Obviously, there's going to bemeetings that we have to attend,
but it doesn't matter if youwake up at 5 am and work from 5
to 7 and really plow onsomething that needs to be
(13:20):
accomplished, or if you go on awalk at noon or at 11 am, but
the expectation is you're goingto meet your requirements, but
that autonomy and that freedomis allowed to these individuals.
Jenn Zella (13:33):
Yeah, we certainly have found that physical
presence in a seat, at a deskdoes not equate to
accountability, and so, you know, I'll say that this business
model has forced us to be better, with so many things like
accountability, everyone havingmetrics and measurables so that
(13:58):
we know that they're doing.
You know what they need to bedoing.
They just get it done, you know, in their own way, I'll say so,
giving true autonomy, I suppose.
But what has made all of thispossible is to start with this
strong foundation of trust andof culture, and that is what has
allowed this to be trulysuccessful, I believe.
Scott Allen (14:21):
Yeah, oh, 100%.
I mean, I think, beginning witha spirit of trust, hiring the
best, here are our values.
Do you align with these valueswe're going to trust?
And then again, you have somebackend systems in place.
Look, there's very, very clearmetrics and there's very clear
mechanisms for accountability,because we have to get the work
(14:44):
done.
We're here to serve the clientsand do our best work and live
those three words engage,elevate and endure.
And one thing I'm superinterested in is just a couple
reflections from you as we beginto wind down our time.
What have you learned aboutyourself as a leader in the last
25 plus years?
I imagine it's constantly.
(15:06):
New insights are presentingthemselves as you enter into new
situations and contexts.
But what are some keyreflections there?
Jenn Zella (15:15):
Maybe first number one is just the notion of having
a growth mindset and of thisjust tireless pursuit of
becoming better and evolving.
You know, maybe the second thatI'll cite is truly leading with
heart, loving what you do,loving why you're here doing it,
(15:37):
loving the people that you'redoing it with.
I think has been one of thebest and most important focuses.
Scott Allen (15:45):
Would you talk a little bit about leading with
heart?
Could you unpack that just alittle bit?
I love the phrasing and again,listeners can feel the warmth
here.
I'm going to begin with trustand I'm going to start there,
and we're going to begin withour values and then leading with
heart.
What are a couple of thingsthat come to mind of examples of
leading with heart?
Jenn Zella (16:05):
I guess I do believe that the heart is the center of
our creative universe.
You know, you talk to anyartist, any creator.
That is the place from which wesing, we write, we create.
I believe that leading fromthat same center is equally
important.
You know, it's a truthful place, it's an authentic place and,
(16:30):
as you said, you know, it doescreate or it does allow for
vulnerability, which, when wetalk about the creative process,
you know you've got to create aspace where people feel like
they can truly be vulnerable toshare their ideas, you know, and
their thoughts and then allowfor those to be built upon and
(16:52):
adapted and continued andfurthered through collaboration.
Scott Allen (16:57):
I mean, just even in your phrasing right there,
some things kind of come to mindfor me, and it was in your bio.
None of us is as smart as allof us.
So it's opening up to others,it's creating that place of
psychological safety, and it'sless about whether it's my idea
or your idea, it's what is thebest idea and let's go on a
(17:19):
pursuit to find what is the bestsolution for this space or what
is the best solution for ourculture.
But there's an openness therethat I just really love and
there's a warmth there.
And again, that doesn't meanthat you're not making hard
decisions.
That doesn't mean that you'renot holding people accountable,
(17:39):
but I think there's a centerfrom which everything begins,
because, of course, course,you've had to let people go over
the course of your tenure.
Of course those are.
You've had the toughconversations when people aren't
meeting expectations, but we'regoing to start from a place
that is very, very grounded.
I mean, that's kind of what I'mhearing and what I'm discerning
.
Is that somewhat accurate?
Jenn Zella (18:01):
Yeah, I think when you're super clear about you
know just clarity in general,clear about who you are, clear
about what the role, is clearabout what people are
accountable for.
You find very quickly whethersomebody is in alignment with
that or not.
And the more clear you are, thequicker you discover that.
Yes, yeah.
Scott Allen (18:19):
You know you're starting from a place of trust,
You're starting in a place fromthe heart, from being human
centric, that is.
It's just a good place to startfrom.
Jenn Zella (18:30):
And if only we all started from there, you know,
early on in our business journey.
You know it took us time tofind our way there and to really
understand.
That was essentially the key toit, at least for us.
Scott Allen (18:43):
Yeah, that's a good place to kind of pause for
today.
I always wind down theseconversations by asking guests
what they've been listening to,what they've been reading, what
they've been streaming.
It could have to do with whatwe've discussed today.
It could have nothing to dowith what we've discussed today,
but what's caught yourattention in recent times.
Jenn Zella (19:02):
Yeah, Well, I guess, going along the topic of the
creative process, since we'vetalked a bit about that today
like a lot of leaders, I'mlistening always to so many
different things at all the sametime.
But the one that I'll highlightare frequencies.
So, you know, on Spotify orYouTube, you can search for
(19:22):
frequency music, for frequencymusic.
So every different song in thisuniverse has been created, you
know, at a certain harmonic or acertain frequency.
So, for example, mozart's musicwas all composed at 432 Hertz
Really, yes which is also thesame frequency of Tibetan sound
bowls.
(19:43):
It's also the same,interestingly, the same
frequency of planet Earth.
You know what's known as theSchumann residence.
So you can listen to all thesedifferent frequencies or
harmonics, depending on whatsort of state you're trying to
be in.
For example, when we sleep,it's best to try to sleep to
(20:04):
delta waves, because that putsyou into a really deep state of
sleep, nice, and so if you'retrying to get into a creative
state, you want to listen to 432hertz.
So I listen to a lot ofdifferent music that inspires
these different types offrequencies.
I've also been listening a lotto I don't know if any of you
are familiar with Rick Rubin,the author of the Creative Act
(20:27):
yes, one of my favorite booksever because you can just flip
to any page or any chapter andjust pick up and read something
wise.
But he has a beautiful podcastcalled Tetragrammaton and he
just has a lot of veryinteresting perspectives and
often they talk about thecreative process.
So I've been finding that quiteinteresting.
Scott Allen (20:47):
Yeah, I think probably in the last month I
listened to him and MatthewMcConaughey.
Often they talk about thecreative process, so I've been
finding that quite interesting.
Yeah, I think probably in thelast month I listened to him and
Matthew McConaughey, which wasa fun conversation.
Yeah, and Neil Young, which isalways an interesting
conversation, and so, yes, Ilistened to the creative act and
he reads it and it is such agreat, great book.
I mean to your point Speakingof wisdom, oh my gosh, it's just
(21:10):
absolutely incredible,Wonderful, wonderful resource.
And I'd never thought of thefrequencies, but I do have music
, Jenn, that if I need to work Ican put my headphones in and I
can put in specific music and Iwill just kind of float.
It brings me to a state of flowand I will float.
(21:31):
I won't hear.
A whole album will be done andI won't hear it, but I will have
floated on that and just zoomedforward with my tasks.
Jenn Zella (21:40):
Yes, we all have the music that we listen to when
we're trying to work out, orwe're trying to get in a groove,
or we're trying to relax.
You know, music is so powerful.
Scott Allen (21:50):
Yes, oh, 100%, 100% .
Okay, I will put links to acouple of those resources in the
show notes.
For all of you and Jen, thankyou so much for being with me
today.
I really, really appreciateyour time.
Thanks for the incredible workyou do, thank you for the
culture you're creating, and youknow what I just have so much
respect.
Jenn Zella (22:11):
Likewise, Scott.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Scott Allen (22:13):
Take care, be well.
I hope you could feel the heartin Jen's approach to leadership
and I think it's just aninspiring conversation of an
individual who has built anincredible organization, doing
incredible work out there in theworld and leading each and
every day designing culture notonly designing beautiful spaces,
(22:36):
but actively designing culture.
Jen, thank you so much forjoining me.
I appreciate you, appreciateyour great work.
Bye-bye.
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