October 16, 2025 • 49 mins
Episode Description:
If you’ve ever wondered whether your forgetfulness, constant overwhelm, or racing thoughts are just part of motherhood—or something more—this episode is for you.
Dr. Fiona Kehoe, a Connecticut-based licensed psychologist with over 25 years of experience, joins us to unpack the truth about ADHD in women and moms. We dive into the signs that often go unnoticed, how hormonal shifts can unmask symptoms, and what getting a neuropsychological evaluation really looks like.
From understanding the three main types of ADHD to distinguishing “mom brain” from true attention issues, this conversation sheds light on what so many women experience but rarely talk about.
You’ll learn how ADHD can present differently in women, why it’s often misdiagnosed, and the supportive steps—from therapy to medication to coaching—that can make daily life feel more manageable.
Whether you’re navigating motherhood, midlife, or just trying to stay on top of it all, this episode will help you see your brain through a more compassionate lens.
💗 Pink Spotlight
Each week, we highlight a moment, product, or practice that’s bringing us joy.
✨ Christina: Investing in a Reformer Pilates machine for her basement gym and streaming the Pilates by Leah app. Leah, a friend and former guest on the podcast, has her own Pilates platform—and Christina loves that she can now squeeze in workouts on her own time and see an ROI by year’s end compared to studio passes.
✨ Kristina: Listening to podcasts on 1.25x or 1.5x speed. It’s a small shift that saves time and helps her get through her favorite shows faster (and yes, we even recommend listening to Pretty in Pink Again on a faster speed since we can be a little long-winded).
✨ Dr. Fiona Kehoe: If you think of a small task that can be done right away—do it. Writing it down can sometimes drain more mental energy than just getting it done, and you’ll free up brain space instantly.
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Don't forget: Leave us a written review on Apple Podcasts, DM us your address, and we’ll send you a light pink beaded bracelet with a gold pink flamingo charm—just to say thanks for being here. 💕
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm Christina and I'm t and thisis the Pretty and Pink Again
podcast where Motherhood meetsrediscovery.
Welcome, Dr.
Keho.
Hello.
Thanks for having me.
(00:20):
How are you?
I'm good.
I'm happy to be here.
We are so happy to be here.
We're on the road.
Yes.
You and I have taken our show onthe road a couple of times.
We're so excited to be in youroffice today, and we're really
excited to get into this topicbecause we've like playfully
joked about it.
We've talked about just, I guessin our kind of complaining and
(00:40):
like related, we hide behindhumor a lot.
Yeah, we do.
We've thrown around terms, whichwe shouldn't, but.
I feel like sometimes my mindjust doesn't operate how it used
to.
And I'm starting to question ifit ever operated at a stellar
level.
But all of this is just comingand we're titling this episode.
(01:00):
Is it mom brain or is it a DHD?
Like, could this have, Couldsome of our, mental hurdles as
moms were they masked aschildren and maybe they were
forgotten or maybe they weremisdiagnosed and this is why
we're having this issue.
Or there maybe weren't resourcesthen maybe things have
progressed and so things maybe30 years ago we didn't uncover
(01:21):
them.
But we wanna unpack this with anexpert and talk about this
because, and we had been talkingoff air just about.
You were calling it the trackingof all of the things that as
moms we have to do.
I like that word.
I don't think as women used it,I think as women too, not just
as mom.
I think as women, yes.
All the mental tracking.
'cause we always call it themental load, but it really is,
(01:43):
it's mental tracking.
'cause it's not just a load thatyou're carrying, it's the
tracking of everything.
So I liked that word.
Now that's gonna be my new,that's gonna be my new thing
that I use when I think of atracker.
I think of if I had an air tagfollowing me around all day and
then at the end of the day youlooked to see where it went.
I'd be like, what did I do?
I just went in a whole bunch ofcircles.
(02:04):
Round and round.
But yeah.
So I'll give our listeners alittle bit of a backstory.
So Dr.
Keho and I met a few years agobecause you are my son's doctor
and she saw my middle sonVincent.
Just quick backstory for ourlisteners, why I think this
topic has really hit home to meis I have four kids.
Two of my boys have a DHD onehas attention, what is it called
(02:27):
in atten?
Inattentive, predominantlyinattentive type.
Inattentive type.
And then my younger son has moreof the hyperactivity.
So my middle son was seen by Dr.
Keho.
She did a fullneuropsychological evaluation on
him.
He has since now had a lot ofsupport in school, at home
medication, and both of my boysare thriving.
(02:47):
And during that process ofuncovering all of this
information about my kids, I'mlike.
I'm filling out the evaluationsfor them with them, and I'm like
checking all these boxes thatpertain to myself as well.
Yeah.
Or maybe did when I was a kid.
Maybe some things I grew out of,some things you learn how to
work around.
So here I am now as ascatterbrained mom and insert
(03:09):
this important conversation.
Yeah.
So yeah, I don't think, I thinkthat's not uncommon that
sometimes going through thatprocess of having a child
evaluated a parent will look atand as we're talking about
symptoms and think, that's me.
We're talking about me not tomake it about me, but this is
me.
Yeah.
Those are the same challenges Ihad and so it's, it can be
(03:29):
eye-opening for the parent too,that explains it.
That's why that was so hard forme.
So let's get into it.
So what is A-D-H-D-A-D-D?
Like what exactly is this?
Dr.
Keo.
Okay.
Starting point.
Okay that diagnostic label comesfrom our DSM five now.
Diagnostic and StatisticalManual of Mental Disorders were
on the fifth edition.
(03:49):
So earlier editions would hadtwo different distinction.
There was an A D, and there wasan A DHD.
And more than 10 years, now it'sall under this umbrella of A
DHD.
It's all called A DHD.
And then we specify the subtype.
So it's the predominantlyinattentive presentation or the
predominantly impulsive,hyperactive presentation, or
(04:11):
it's the combined type.
It's confusing to a lot ofpeople who are, no, I'm a DD,
but it's it's all now, it's allthe same age.
Just, we just specify the type.
It's a neurodevelopmentaldisorder.
So it's a condition that makesit hard for someone to focus,
pay attention.
They may have difficulty, motoroveractivity, being fidgety,
being impulsive and they're notjust occasional lapses.
(04:33):
You wanna see that these areongoing challenges for an
individual and it that it'saffecting their life at school,
socially, out in the community.
You wanna see that it impactsthem in two, two settings, not
just one, and you wanna seesymptoms before age 12.
So in this case, when we'retalking about people getting
identified later, it'sneurodevelopmental, you wanna be
able to say, it can be tracedback.
(04:54):
And it's hard to do thatsometimes because you are not
talking to people in real time.
I'm talking to you aboutsomething that happened, 30
years ago.
What do you think?
And so it can be tricky, whichthat's where talking to parents
and other people that you knewyou at the time may be good
informants for currently, whenyou are questioning, does
someone in the family have anissue like this teacher is a
(05:15):
really good partner in thisbecause we as parents might
think we're comparing perhapstwo kids and one looks really
inattentive compared to theother.
That's an N of two.
You really want the teacher'sgonna be able to say in a
classroom, your kid is totallywithin normal limits.
I wouldn't be worried at all.
Or they'll say, I think you'reright.
I think they're having troublehere that we probably need to,
(05:37):
evaluate.
So that's why when you have yourchild evaluate, they have
multiple people fill out theseforms because you want, you said
several different perspectives,maybe perspectives and
environments.
So maybe like the coach fillsout one, the parent fills out
one, the teacher fills out one.
Yeah.
You want to make sure that it'shappening across settings.
Now, it may not be, but it getstricky, right?
(06:00):
Because let's say we're talkingabout sports.
Maybe my kid loves sports andthat's what they're all about.
And whatever an attention isthere, it's not really visible
because, okay, they missed theplay, but they saw three kids
ahead of them do the play.
So it may not be as obvious insome settings as others.
It's probably not one size fitsall too.
And like you're saying, ifsomething, if you're more into
(06:20):
something or if something comesmore easy to you, then maybe
that's not the area that youwould struggle in, but maybe in
school if something is moredifficult.
So it probably could vary, whichI'm sure makes it very tough.
Yeah.
And I feel like this has comesuch a long way because t and I
are the same age.
We're 39.
It was that it was a DD when wewere kids.
And so you're saying it hasprogressed so much in 30
(06:42):
something years?
Yeah.
From where we came from.
Yeah.
It is it can present differentlyin different sense.
Yeah.
And so then maybe, okay, itdidn't happen in sports, they're
the rockstar out there, but itmight be, oh, but they can't sit
through church.
Look at all the other kids inclass are able to, or whatever
other setting you wanna look at.
There's other settings to lookat there.
The family reunions place.
It's not just our home.
(07:03):
They're a standout in thatsetting too.
And the important thing to dotoo is to make sure this is not
something else.
Having troubles withconcentration and attention.
That's on the list of symptomswith depression.
That's gonna happen withanxiety.
Someone's ruminating they're notable to pay attention'cause
they're worrying about things.
So what would be a, like a coresymptom in all types?
(07:24):
So for the inattentive type,there's two blocks here.
So the inten inattentivesymptoms, and then there's the
hyperactive impulsive symptoms.
So examples of what's on theinattentive list fails to give
close attention to details ormakes careless mistakes.
Doesn't seem to listen whenspoken to directly, doesn't
follow through on instructions,fails to finish things.
(07:46):
For the hyperactive andimpulsive side of things.
It's fidgeting with your hands,leaving your seat, and other
situations in which remainingseated is expected.
Runs around or climbs too muchat times when it's
inappropriate, difficultyplaying quietly.
So some of these, they're biasedtowards the younger kid.
Yeah.
So if I see a teenager, they'reunlikely getting out of their
(08:08):
seat and climbing.
But they might fall into thefidgety not finishing
assignments.
They might fall into some ofthese other things.
Talking too much feeling on thego.
Blurting out.
Blurting out answers.
Yeah.
Interrupting those type ofdifficulty waiting turns.
Yeah.
So those are the types ofsymptoms that are listed here.
And they're more behavioral.
These don't always tap intoperhaps the internal experience
(08:31):
of the kid who I can't payattention because behaviorally
it may not look that way to theobserver.
I suspect we will be talkingabout that.
'cause we're talking about mom,so that's a key.
So a lot of people that I do seeare teenagers.
And later in the game early on,it's a bit easier.
Let's say, especially with thecombined type, the teacher's
trying to catch'em with abutterfly net, nobody questions
(08:51):
it.
It's yep, we got the diagnosis.
It was easy.
We did a teacher checklist, amom checklist, done by the
doctor.
That's what it is.
But you get a kid that is quiet,behaved, no signs of the
hyperactive side of things, andoften seemingly look like
they're paying attention, thosekids may not be recognized till
much later.
And it's usually them trying totell people I can't pay
(09:13):
attention, okay.
It's actually coming from them.
Like I spent four hours in myroom and I was probably
productive for one.
I can't keep my mind on this.
And again, these are teenageyears, so you wanna make sure
this is not something else.
This is not.
Something's going on at schooland I'm upset about you.
You want this to be a persistentright issue I'm sure that it's
become more thorough as this hasbeen studied more and I feel
(09:36):
like the labels are changing andso it's a little bit more
thorough now.
But was this missed a long timeago?
Was this easier to miss?
'cause you're saying sometimesthings aren't flagged.
If the kid maybe was nothyperactive, some of these
things were getting missed untilthey were teenagers.
Is it possible that this gotmissed, like entirely?
Yeah.
I often think the kids that arethe externalizers that are,
(09:58):
bouncing in their seat.
Sometimes they're luck are like,okay, they got flagged
immediately.
And then you'll find kids thatlike struggled a long time and
Oh, I went an extra 10 yearsbefore anybody realized.
But in terms of as a whole, allof us go back in time.
Lots of things were missed.
Course, of course.
There's, I think, increasedtolerance for the whole range of
things.
Lots of people with dyslexiawould've been so you can, in any
(10:18):
family, when I meet familieswith any condition, it's Oh
yeah, we think so and so.
Mm-hmm.
had it, grandpa, grandma, but itwasn't formally diagnosed.
It's often it was, we think theyhad it never formally diagnosed.
I don't think that many peoplewere formally dosing.
Yeah.
Diagnosed in the past.
So is this hereditary then?
Is it something that is passeddown?
There's a hereditary component,yes.
(10:39):
Okay.
So that's interesting that I'msure now that people are
starting to be flagged, it'll beeasier to track things.
But like you're saying, if therewas generations where this was
completely missed, That's agreat question.
My, when my kids were goingthrough this, my dad was like,
oh, what are you going throughall this for?
Back in my day, if you had antsin your pants, you would get a
(10:59):
job where you were boots on theground.
You would get a job inconstruction or at an office
setting.
You would give your body what itneeded.
Basically.
It's so Vincent's just a kidthat has ants in his pants.
Great.
And so and I think one way tolook at it earlier on, people
probably would remember peopleweren't trying to go to school
for so long, so it would be,okay, so you go to eighth grade
(11:19):
instead of 12.
May not have a big bearing onyour life, given what people
used to do.
Might be like, okay, school'snot for you.
That's okay.
Yeah.
That's I think what he wastrying to That's a good point.
'cause now everything became youhave to stay in school for so
much longer.
Maybe school ended around highschool and now it's like mostly
everybody goes to college.
And so graduate school youreally have Yeah.
Graduate school after continuingeducation.
(11:40):
So it's like if you want toquote unquote Thrive now in a
school setting, if you needhigher education to do the
career path that you want this,you're, you really are in the
school setting.
You could be in it until you'rein your mid late twenties even.
Yeah.
So yeah we see'em as a society,right?
So life has changed dramaticallyso much so not just are we
pursuing educational for muchpursuits for a much longer
(12:02):
period of time, but just ourenvironment, this could be a
whole other topic.
All the things that were hitwith, all the electronics, all
the things that, that wasn't inthat life before.
That was a much quieter time.
Yeah.
Probably the threshold forseeing some of this stuff would
be higher.
So it's part of the talk alwaysis are people really having this
diagnosis more or it's right.
Just the other way of lookingat, it's our lifestyle is
(12:23):
revealing it more because we'reputting people to the limits of
what they can do all the time.
Yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
Just one of the things that Iwas supposed to do with my son
before school was I was supposedto have him move before school,
so I would have to play catchwith him or have him throw a
ball up against the wall or getsome of his energy out.
And my dad was like, this isridiculous.
I used to walk to school threemiles every day and then I'd
(12:43):
walk home three miles every day.
So that was my movement the day,which did that.
Your son doesn't have a threemile walk.
Exactly.
So his point was that I had thistoo when I was a kid, but my
lifestyle was so different thatit didn't impact me as much.
So things have changed so muchand also coupled with all of the
new research and professionalslike yourself, so we're able to
(13:04):
diagnose and recognize this morein our youth.
And so now I wanna pivot to usas moms who fell into this.
Undiagnosed generation, butstill are living this life where
you're constantly togglingbetween things back and forth
and you're constantly trackingthings and things are being
pinged, ping pinged at you.
(13:25):
And even somebody that maybe hasa very sound mind, how do you
stay focused?
Yeah, always a question.
We always say, sometimes we askthe questions, and then we know
there's really no hack, there'sno, it's just, it's hard.
We're just posing it out in theworld.
So just on the front end of it,so much to look at, which is,
(13:47):
thinking about how people kindof land in sometimes in these
roles that they didn'tnecessarily.
Sign up for, it's just thenatural development of a
couplehood.
Are you working?
Are you not working?
Are you working?
But are you still absorbing, thebulk of the childcare?
Are you still doing the bulk ofthis inside the house stuff?
We think a lot of moms end upfalling into situations where
perhaps they realize they'vetaken on way more than they can
(14:11):
really handle.
So that's part of it, that'spart of the lens to look through
before you even think aboutcould this be a DHD is or is
what you're doing evenreasonable for anybody to do.
It may be that you've taken onway more than you can do, then
anybody can do.
So the answer is yes.
Yes.
The answer is yes.
So if that's the case, and Ilove that you brought that point
up.
Yes, I agree.
Because, some of us are just,we've gotta do it all and gotta
(14:34):
do it perfectly.
So you've got, all moms, I thinkhaving their heart, I want the
beautiful, nutritious meal.
They came from Whole Foods withall the food.
That's my plan for every day.
And there's some moms that I'mgonna do that I don't care, you
know what else doesn't happen,but that's gonna happen.
And then you've got the moms whoare gonna be like, okay, 40 a
week we're gonna have a goodmeal.
And the other three, we're allgonna, we're gonna be fine with
(14:55):
mac and cheese, or whatever itis.
And so people are gonna pushthemselves differently.
And those that I think have thatperfectionistic, get rigid about
the rules that they want thingsto go, they can perhaps
sometimes struggle a littlemore, get a little more
frustrated.
So that perfectionistic andmaybe anxious is not a DHD.
(15:16):
Those are very different things.
So that's why I say like that,the starting point probably may
be to say, okay, what are youdoing?
Could anybody do this?
Realistically, and just tryingto look at the range of what
you're doing.
And I think we were talkingabout before, just the amount
just parcel out the childmanagement stuff.
Just, their schedules, gettingthat stuff into a calendar,
(15:38):
managing this stuff that can'tget into a calendar.
Talk about the diaper bag.
Having to remember, did I putfresh diapers in there?
Do I have white, that wholeongoing dialogue you have in
your brain about that darndiaper bag and is it ready to
go?
And it just stays online, right?
You just have that mullingaround in your brain a lot.
So there's just the demands fora parent.
They're just a lot.
(15:59):
Yeah.
They just are.
It's probably like brain fatiguebecause your mind is always on,
especially when your kids arevery young, and I'm sure even as
they get older you're justthinking constantly.
Like it's so much preparation.
We've talked about that, but wenever talked about how
exhausting that can be.
Like sometimes you wanna prepareyourself so that you're
organized so that things go wellfor you so that you know the day
(16:20):
goes well for you.
But that is constant it's likebeing online all the time and
you never shut down your brain.
So it's just all day and howfatiguing that can be on a
woman.
So it, even when they get older,it's, and let's say it's more
scheduled it's still do I feedthem, two hours before they go
to that practice?
Yeah.
I feed'em, just give'em a snack.
(16:41):
It's just trying to manageminutiae of everybody's life.
Yes.
They can't do it yet.
And then if you have teenagersthat are a DHD or, and they are
still not managing, you're stilldoing it.
You're still providing a lot ofsupport and trying to figure out
how to give them support.
That's a whole other, topic.
Topic Yeah.
Is you're trying to model foryour kids and teach them to do
(17:01):
things and talk to them acertain way and and then you're
like, your mind is goingconstantly.
You're always trying to balance,giving enough support, but not
too much support and wanting tohelp them be successful.
So it's tricky.
But if you, in all of this, ifyou are a parent who really is
doing all this with an unundiagnosed A DHD, yeah.
I would it's harder.
It's harder.
(17:22):
You mentioned in, in the under12 population and in your teen
population, some of thedifferences of things that
you're seeing.
What are some of thecommonalities that you would see
in our age population?
It's the same list.
Same list.
It's the same list.
When you're an adult, you,instead of needing, say, six of
the inattentive symptoms, youneed five.
So they just take one off, butyou're still looking at those
(17:45):
same symptoms.
But as I say, so if you look atthe hyperactive and impulsive
ones, we'll probably, again,we're not talking about getting
outta your seat and climbing.
Okay.
You may be talking too much, youmay be interrupting and it's
that mom who just got back fromthe playground.
Did I say that?
Why did I say that?
Oversharing just not putting thebrakes on.
When you're stretched to thelimit of what you can do, you're
(18:05):
not as good at compensating ormasking some of the symptoms
that you would be.
Able to do normally.
That's really interesting.
So is this missed in women alot?
Especially with moms, a lot ofthe, like even for tea, you've
been so open with, you didn'treally start experiencing
anxiety until you had kids,until your kids started to be a
little bit older and you weremanaging all of the things and
(18:27):
that came out as like more of ananxious behavior.
Mm-hmm.
But is this missed in women?
Because I feel like with women,it's very common for moms and
women to just like expressanxiety, to express they're
doing too much.
We're trying to keep track oftoo many things.
I feel like we are in thisgeneration where it's like easy
to express that and everyone'syeah, me too.
(18:47):
But is this missed in women?
I don't have a huge end to tellyou.
Yeah.
Because I think a lot what we'retalking about that experience
of, oh yeah, that explains me.
But the number of people thatthen are pursuing it, saying, I
really gotta find out now if Ihave, that's not everybody, but
I would say it very much.
The quiet, well-behaved right.
Teenage girls that I see who arethe ones telling people around
(19:10):
them, I can't pay attention.
No, nobody would've identifiedthem.
It's them saying I can't payattention.
So I would liken it to thatperson.
But if you imagine that kiddidn't say anything and just
went on with some inefficientstrategies, put their crash
helmet on, did it got throughhigh school and got through
college, and maybe thatmotherhood is the next big
hurdle in their lives where I'vemet my match.
(19:32):
I can't compensate for this.
This is too much.
For me to do.
So yeah, I would think there'slots of people that's gonna be
the next point in their lifethat they could be work but this
could be another place.
Yeah.
So maybe some of it wasmanageable before motherhood,
but motherhood, I like that yousaid it's like a, it's the next
big hurdle of your life whereit's, you have to.
Function, you have to function.
(19:53):
And some of the things that youmight have done prior, again,
I've mentioned like the kidwho's procrastinating, then
taking care of it with an allnighter, I got it all done.
You can't really do that as aparent.
Like you can't go without sleeplike that.
That's not an option.
You've gotta sleep when you can.
So some of the things that youmight have done before aren't
gonna work in this situation.
Yeah.
It's like all of it bubbles upand then it's just at the
surface now because there's notime for your brain to go
(20:15):
offline.
There's no time to re rely.
Like you can't mask it anylonger.
So you gave some examples hereabout forgetting appointments,
starting a project, notfinishing them, the mental
clutter, maybe the obviousphysical clutter of your home,
the guilt that's associated withthat.
The blurting the oversharing.
Let's just click all the boxes.
Yeah.
You've clicked all of the boxes.
(20:35):
Where do you go from there?
So there's a couple of things Iwould say.
'cause we did talk too about,you know what there's burnout
and there's mom brain.
And in fact, it's true.
Due to hormonal changes andsleep deprivation.
Those early on, I wouldn't berunning for an eval because
early on everybody knows niceclinical term, you feel a little
worked, your brain is notworking.
That's science fact.
(20:56):
So I wouldn't be running for thedoctor if, I'm still in that,
that pregnancy to infancy, I'min that phase of motherhood.
Yeah.
This is, I think that would benormal to now to be forgetful
and Okay.
Attract things.
So you'd wanna see it again,persistence through every phase
of childhood.
Now I'm really not able to do.
The mothering tasks as easily asI would've expected.
(21:18):
So you've checked all of theseboxes now.
Yeah.
And you are really thinking, Ihave this.
And you've come out of the verylittle kid stage where maybe
your hormones have started toregulate again.
Yeah.
You are getting better sleep atnight.
That fog has lifted, but yet youare still struggling daily with
flirting things out, rememberingtasks.
You're forgetting to take yourkids to certain appointments.
(21:40):
You're that mom that alwaysneeds the last minute reminder.
Oh, did you hand in theassignment?
You are now, that mom, whatwould you encourage somebody to
do then?
So part of this is looking at,it's disrupting my life.
And I think that's what you'regetting at.
Yeah.
It's now disrupting your life.
This is real.
This is not fun.
I'm, this is.
Think it's time to getevaluated.
(22:01):
I may end up being encouraged topursue a neuropsychological
evaluation.
Would you explain to ourlisteners a little bit about
what a neuropsych evaluationlooks like?
So this is instead of asking youabout how you use your brain,
it's having you show us how youuse your brain.
Okay.
So it's a sit down face to face.
A testing that happensone-on-one.
(22:21):
So it starts with a thoroughinterview, a look at
developmental history.
It might involve if available,talking to other people in your
life that may be able to speakto how things went for you as a
younger person and your husband,whoever might be a good later
resource.
And it's asking you to use yourbrain.
So looking at all differentcognitive domains, looking at
(22:43):
intellectual functioning, verbalskills, non-verbal skills,
executive skills in that, andcome back to, yes, new learning
and memory, academic skills.
And with an adult, maybe we'rejust screening that and then
your emotional and behavioralfunctioning.
So you're looking at all thosedomains and you're putting a
profile together because eventhough our question might be, I
really just wanna know about myattention, you can't really look
(23:04):
at that in isolation.
You have to be able to look atthat across a whole profile and
be able to say that it's aweakness.
You have to look at it againstother skills.
So the executive skills is animportant one that I just
mentioned, and people aren'tfamiliar with that.
That is the part of our brain.
It's the front of our brain,frontal lobes that mediates our
executive skills.
And while most of our brain,about 90% of the brain is fully
(23:28):
developed by the time we're fouror five, the exception to that
is the frontal lobes, which iscontinuing to grow up through
like our mid twenties, so whenkids are little, they don't have
much in the way of executiveskills yet, right?
There's, and then there's growthspurts along the way.
Middle school age, that's a bigtime for a growth spurt.
And then there's there's growthspurts up through that early
(23:49):
adulthood.
And you can see with lifedemands, how that tracks because
okay, middle school comes, thesekids are expected to switch
classes seven times.
Keep track of yourself acrossseven classes.
We used to keep a locker.
I don't think they do so muchanymore, but you.
Keep track of a lot of thisstuff.
Keep track of what you need foryour sports.
Someone's usually not hoveringover you anymore to do that
stuff.
Make sure you have your waterbottle on and on it goes.
(24:11):
And so we're expecting thesekids to become increasingly
independent through high school,certainly by college.
And, kids are gonna accomplishthat at different speeds.
And for the kid that has a DHDthat phase, that middle school
phase is another marker.
Another time that you might seesome kids come to clinical
attention because it was just alot for them to do.
(24:32):
They're not ready to do it yet.
And so if you try to imaginetaking this back to the mom, so
if I'm a mom, let's just say Ihave this undiagnosed condition,
and so my executive skills arenot great.
And by executive skills,management skills.
So that's things like, planningorganization tracking things,
keeping track of two things atthe same time.
Speed, making sure I'm doingthings at the right pace so I'm
(24:54):
not making mistakes.
Attention is under thisumbrella.
And so if I'm a bomb, that's myarea of weakness, but now I'm
taking care of little ones whodon't really have their
executive skills.
You have to imagine that's a lotof tracking to do.
So for a person who, that, ifthat's my weakness and now I'm
taking care of everybody'sexecutive skills, that can be
very overwhelming.
(25:15):
And so anyway, so you go throughthe eval, we get a profile and
we get a clinical opinion.
What does this mean?
And it's very important, again,like we're ruling out other
things too.
It's to call it a DHD, you wannabe able to say, this is not
depression, it's not anxiety.
And it's tricky even there,honestly, because somebody might
have some of those symptoms, butit's more, it's secondary to the
(25:37):
A-D-A-D-H-D stuff.
So hard.
It is making me sad.
It's making me anxious'cause I'mnot doing it well.
So you gotta tease things apartversus the person who was
already depressed, alreadyanxious and now I can't pay
attention.
But there you can have thosesymptoms.
Also because of the A DH D'sdriving it.
So maybe A DHD could be the rootand you've been somebody that
(25:59):
has been diagnosed with anxietyor depression, but really it's
because you had this underlyingcondition you've been struggling
your whole life with.
That's so interesting.
And those are things that can beuncovered and teased out during
a neuropsychological evaluation.
Careful evaluation.
Careful evaluation that youperform.
Yeah.
Wow, that's really interesting.
Jumping ahead.
(26:20):
What are some of the, then, whatwould a treatment plan look
like?
Is it always jumping tomedication?
Are there executive functioningskills you can put in place for
patients?
What are the next steps?
Yeah, so next steps, right?
So there's a whole, just asthere is for the kids there's a
range of options.
So there's, there is that optionof medication.
(26:42):
Some people may be interested inthat, others may not.
The next line I would thinkwould be to work with a
cognitive behavior therapist tohelp you develop strategies,
skills to compensate forexecutive weaknesses.
Putting compensatory strategiesin place, checklists, getting
routine, getting your life withsome routine is important.
(27:02):
You just talked about cognitivebehavioral therapists and we had
a therapist come on our podcastmonths ago, one of our early on
episodes, and she talked atlength about CBT.
Yeah.
And so I'd love you to expand alittle bit more on that,
especially as it pertains tothis.
Yeah.
It could be CBT, it or it couldbe an executive coach.
You wanna find somebody whosays, this is in my wheelhouse,
(27:24):
this is stuff that I do.
I'm gonna help you getorganized, or let's, and you
want someone to meet with youand say, this is where I'm
struggling.
This is the part that's hard forme.
Is it keeping track of fiveschedules, coming up with
strategies.
How are we gonna do this?
Am I keeping one calendar?
Am I keeping two?
Figuring out what's the best wayto, to organize all that I have
to organize.
And just, I think puttingroutines in place is really
(27:46):
important.
Studying reminders, using theapps on our phone for that,
using checklists.
Sticky notes, whatever it iscoming up with strategies, but
it's a personalized thing.
Somebody talking with you about,where I'm struggling with in my
life, this is a thing I keep,this is a repeat problem.
Finding strategies for that.
There's always the standardlifestyle changes too, of just
(28:06):
healthy diet, exercise, makingsure we're getting good sleep.
Those things are important foreverybody, but they're gonna
really be important if you'realso trying to manage this.
It might be that I even feellike, oh, I want a support
group.
Finding a group of other adultsthat are struggling with A DHD
could be something to bepursued.
Finding family members orfriends that are good supports.
It might even be able to providesome instrumental support.
(28:27):
This is really hard for me, butyou have somebody who I'm just
gonna give you my meal plan I'musing for the week, with my
kids.
It'll work for you.
It might lessen your load alittle bit too, if you have
other people around you that aregiving you.
Tools that you can thenimplement.
You don't have to do theresearch to find it.
Or you might just say let'salternate weeks.
You do the meal plan for bothour families for week one.
I'll do it for week two.
No, it's just something likethis like that for somebody that
(28:47):
may be a big deal, deal changerof that part's really hard for
me.
So yeah.
But it's, again, it's just veryneeds to be personalized
personally.
We're not talking about schoolanymore.
We're talking about we'retalking about your life.
Yeah.
We're talking about managementof life, management of kids and
it's hard.
Can you speak to medicine atall?
There are, there's a lot ofreally good medications out
(29:08):
there.
We used to be offered, I thinkone back in the day, it was,
would you like Lin?
There's a lot.
I think for folks that feel.
Worried there's a lot ofoptions.
A lot of them are the classicstimulant medications.
Some of them are thenon-stimulant.
But it may be worth the sometrials to see what works best
for you.
And that's something that onceyou've performed this neuropsych
(29:30):
evaluation and have presentedthat information to the
patients, is it psychiatriststhat would prescribe this, or
would it be your primary caredoctor?
Or how do you go about that?
Yeah.
Yep.
So this is interesting.
'Cause with the kids these days,the pediatricians would become
frontline, right?
They usually are comfortable andsay I'll do it.
It's okay.
You don't have to go to aseparate psychiatrist.
(29:50):
But if you're an adult, I thinkit depends on your PCP and how
comfortable they feel with this.
They may say, I'd rather youwork with a psychiatrist first,
get you stable on a medication,then I'll take it over or.
I want you to just do this withpsychiatry.
So it really depends on your pcpIt's a talk with your doctor.
I guess when there's otherthings associated with this,
like anxiety and depression.
Yeah.
(30:11):
If it starts to get messy andit's I also need treatment for
these other things.
I think they're definitelyPsychiatrist so we talked a
little bit about mom brain.
I think that I was the one thatwas throwing that out.
Like we've talked on podcastsand I think it was just me and t
on a podcast and we've talkedabout just.
I'm like a big need to labelthings.
Like for internally, I'msomebody that if I see,
(30:34):
especially like we've said likethe TikTok doctors and the
Instagram, there's so muchinformation out there right now,
and so I will see something.
And I'll be like, that soundslike me.
Maybe I have that.
That's a classic Christinainternal dialogue.
And so I think I had thrown outthe, okay, am I just
experiencing mom brain or isthis something further?
(30:57):
And I've talked openly justabout how I've struggled with
anxiety and depression withinmotherhood.
Some of these things I do thinkI had before, but I think
motherhood has just sent themthrough the roof.
And so some of these things seemlike they overlap with things
that that are going on in mybrain, but I don't really know,
is it mom brain or is thissomething further?
(31:19):
Is this something that wasmisdiagnosed?
My mom swears it wasn't, but I'mlike, even misdiagnosed, maybe
undiagnosed, i it just wasn'tfound.
But I'm also just curious, isthis just something that I am in
the thick of motherhood rightnow.
I'm in the transition wherewe're going from little kids to
now we have, one of my kids isstarting school and we're a lot
(31:40):
more active.
We're entering that activityphase where now it's a lot of
things to manage, but.
Most of it was just me at homemanaging schedules, who's eating
what?
There are two different kids, sotwo different schedules, and
trying to manage myself in themiddle and trying to be a
working mom who works forherself.
So some of it I just, I have totry to give myself grace and
(32:01):
say, it's just a lot to freakingmanage.
Yes.
You need a trophy.
Yes.
Rather than say this is aproblem like, whatcha doing?
Doing wow.
That's amazing.
It's a lot, it's just a lot tomanage.
So I think sometimes I, you saidthat to her.
Yeah.
Sometimes it's just nice to hearthat you have to just give
yourself some grace and giveyourself some credit that this
is a lot, this is a lot foranybody to manage.
You said this at the beginningof the episode, it's just a lot
(32:22):
to do.
It's a lot for anybody tomanage.
But I guess when do you knowwhere's the line, yeah.
So that mom brain you refer to?
Yeah.
Not a clinical term, but we all,no, we all say it.
We say it in, but we do knowthere's, there are issues,
cognitive issues that come afteractually from pregnancy.
And they hormonal.
We've got hormonal, we've gotsleep deprivation, and we're
(32:43):
managing, early parenthooddemands.
So that's a big cognitive loadright there.
So I would, I think we aretalking about, getting us
through infancy and I think yousaid your youngest is one and a
half, I think one and a half, alittle bit over going towards
the tail end of just in terms ofthose actual physical changes
For sure.
That could be causing problems.
Yeah.
I'm probably right in the lineof where, okay.
(33:04):
I we have babies that sleep.
It's the hormonal aspect shouldbe wrapping up.
It's like, when do you flag itas I'm still struggling with
these things, yeah.
And we're talking about you,Christina, right now, but really
we're talking to our listenersfor sure, who are also you Yes.
Who are listening to this rightnow.
We've heard that, who arewaiting with bated breath to
(33:25):
hear what you have to say.
Because you hate it, because,you keep going back to I'm just
tired.
I'm not sleeping.
I'm in brain fog.
My hormones are still shiftingall over the place.
Nothing feels consistent yet,but then for me, I've been in
this space where it's okay,everything has been a little bit
more manageable.
So when do we flag it as I stilldon't feel right.
Like that's, yeah, that's agreat question.
(33:46):
And I don't know that I have theexact line for you.
Yeah, I just, off the, I wouldsay, gee, wanna give yourself
maybe two years, but yeah, thatis, I'm just putting that out
there.
But, you, again, the key word ispersistent.
You'd wanna see.
This didn't go away.
E even when it's in the rearview mirror and you can say
everything's regulated now, thisis not an issue.
I'm just keeping it.
And if you're still saying, andyet I'm not able to manage
(34:09):
these, mom tasks associated withchildcare and all the rest of
this and I still can't do this.
I think then yeah, you're sayingthis is persistent now.
Yeah.
I think that's good.
I think even if it's notcompletely accurate, it's'cause
it's different for everybody.
But I think just having atimeframe in your mind of being
able to say, okay, after twoyears, if this still seems off,
if it's persistent.
Yeah.
That's a great, it's just niceto know.
(34:30):
'cause I think a lot of thetimes you can just stay in that
place you know of.
My kids are little and I have alot going on, and you just you
don't get yourself to the nextstep.
Do you feel like it interfereswith your life?
Because that was another thingDr.
Keho said with like the kids isit really interfering with their
life day to day?
I guess that same question, it'sto yourself.
Yeah.
I don't think it's interfering.
(34:51):
It's just, to me it's annoyingand I've always considered
myself like a type A person, butI come at Type A.
And that verbiage from like aperfectionist standpoint.
Yeah.
I like things done by way, whichshe used those words earlier in
our conversation, but I've neveractually been a hyper organized
person.
So I think I teeter on yes, Ilike things done my way.
(35:14):
I have expectations of thingsand if they don't go the way I
want them to go, I'm very hardon myself.
It's a disaster.
It's a disaster.
It's terrible this week becausewe had McDonald's one day.
Yes.
Shut.
Yes.
So it's like the way I framemyself and the way I thought
that I was gonna be this type ofmom and now it's shifting and
I'm having to let things go androll with things.
But I've never been a, it's veryhard for somebody very hard who
(35:35):
prides themselves onperfectionism.
Yeah.
But I've also never been like asuper hyper organized person.
I did well in school.
I didn't do great in school.
I wasn't like a stellar academicperson, so I think I like teeter
on some of these things.
Some of them seem in line, but Idon't know if I would hit all
six or all nine, like you said.
So I think some of it just couldbe overlap with anxiety and
(35:57):
that's just how my brainoperates.
I need the checklist.
Yeah.
Should we read again?
Read, because checklist.
I wanna read the checklist.
Yeah.
Because I don't think we fullyread them.
Christina.
Christina and I have no shame inour game.
Oh no.
But I will gladly say yes or no.
Okay.
Okay.
Fails to give close attention todetails or makes careless
mistakes.
Check for Christina Bon tempoover here.
Okay.
I think that I could, that couldbe me now.
(36:20):
That could be me now.
Really?
You?
Yeah.
I think you always double checkour work and make sure it's
perfect.
See, I disagree with that foryou.
Okay.
But you tell yourself that Iwould know.
Okay.
But we've got the collateralinformants right here.
There we go.
Yeah.
So she, yeah.
That's why it's important for asecond person.
But you said you have it.
I'm the work wife has difficultymaintaining attention and tasks
or play activities.
That's like for a kid.
(36:40):
But for me, I would say yes, butbecause I could be on a task, I
always say, I'm like a browser,my brain and I have 50 tasks
open at a time.
And sometimes even for work orfor, if I'm trying to schedule
an appointment for one of mykids and I'm like, okay, I have
to go on and then I gotta log inhere and my brain, it's like I
could be like, log on, make theappointment, do this like step
(37:03):
by step and then something elsewill shift my attention.
One of your kids and then I'mlike, one of your kids I might
hear, yeah.
But like even still, I might belike, oh, you know what?
That reminds me that I need todo this.
And then I shift away from thatand I'm like, why did I go on
the computer?
Do the original task?
That's so that never reallyhappened to me before.
This is like something that'snew because I think that there's
(37:25):
just now so many more tabs thatare open.
So it's so many diversions away.
So that's okay.
So number three does not seem tolisten when spoken to directly.
I don't think I have that issue.
I don't think I have that issuethere.
No, I don't think you have thatissue.
Does not follow through oninstructions and fails to finish
things.
That's me.
It depends on what theinstructions are.
(37:45):
If they're auditoryinstructions, I'm on it.
Okay.
I have to read something and I'ma more visual person.
I, you lost me.
Yeah.
I still think they only have onefail to finish things is me all
day long.
I don't make decisions veryeasily.
So like I will get so far downin a task and then I'm like, I'm
out.
I don't, I'm overwhelmed and Ijust stop.
(38:07):
So that's me.
Has difficulty organizing tasksand activities.
I would say me sometimes, but Ican usually organize tasks is
just getting them done.
No, for me, I'm okay with that.
Yeah.
Okay.
With that, I'm okay with that.
Avoids dislikes or is reluctantto engage in tasks that require
continued mental effort.
(38:29):
Who likes to do things theydon't wanna do?
I know that's tricky.
It just don't, most people wannatake the path of what's
resistance, but I don't losesthings necessary for tasks or
activities.
For example, school assignments,pencils for me, it would be
like, I have to go somewhere.
Where are my keys?
You know what I mean?
It's what bag are they in?
I can't go until, so that'sbeen, again, something that that
happens to me all the time.
(38:50):
I'm glad.
Is that the last one that was,is easily distracted by other
things going on.
That is me and then it'sforgetful in daily activities.
I think that depends.
So there is another category ofA DH adhd, which is unspecified.
So sometimes you can give thatto folks who, let's say you
don't fully meet and you're atyour age five full, you're at
(39:11):
four and a half.
You've got enough here, and theimpact on your life is enough
that I feel like it is capturedby a DH, adhd.
There is another, yeah.
It's not that strict like it hasto be.
I have to find five.
So it might, if we've got enoughevidence and don't forget, by
bringing in theneuropsychological evaluation,
you've also not, you've gotquantitative data too to X,
right?
This is a behavioralpresentation.
(39:31):
If that's coupled withquantitative data that says
indeed attention is hard foryou.
And it's hard.
'cause I like you're saying,you're trying to answer for
yourself, but I like that you'resaying with the evaluation, it's
obviously like someone else isevaluating.
Yeah.
And you're supposed to be doinglike more real life things and
someone else can evaluate.
This is less about what do youthink?
And it's show me how thisattention is me.
(39:52):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
And so someone could stillconceivably get a diagnosis of a
DH, adhd, but it's none ofthose.
It would be an unspecified.
Okay.
That makes sense.
I'm curious for our listenerswho just heard us go through
that list, like how many of themwould check some of these boxes?
And also I should mention, ifyou have somebody coming to you,
clearly it's affecting theirlife enough, right?
If they're coming into youroffice.
(40:12):
Yeah.
So whether they've only checkedfour and a half of those boxes,
or the full five, just theirpresence here alone, I think
tells you that it's affectingtheir life.
It's a magnitude that'sproblematic.
The other big.
Key though is to make surethat's what it is, that it is
not something else.
I think that's very important.
That you can tease that out.
I know that was something thatyou had to work when you worked
with my son.
It was a two day longevaluation.
(40:35):
Okay.
Yeah.
This is expected then.
Age appropriate.
You knew at the time he waseight years old, you weren't
gonna have him sit in youroffice for six hours.
His hyperactive body, could nottolerate that.
But it was amazing the thingsshe was doing with him so we
could figure out how could heaccess the curriculum best.
Interesting.
And have that implemented intowhen we worked with the
(40:55):
behavioral specialist who madethis color coded schedules for
him.
Like how will his brain digestthis?
Not everything is just a pilland a diagnosis.
Yes.
And a box.
Yes.
Some of this is, all right,Christina, you're having trouble
with forgetting where you'rekeeping things.
You're gonna keep your keys nowhere every single time.
That's gonna be your new CBT.
That's gonna be what you donext.
And I think that's very helpful.
(41:16):
Like I think just that some ofthose like behavioral lifestyle
changes Yes.
In a season where you just haveso much going on, you have to
simplify and try to organizeyourself.
And so some of those are Yeah.
Routines.
Tea have to go here.
Yep.
The baby bag upon entry Yes.
Has to be restocked.
Yes.
I can't be doing that when I'mtrying to walk out.
I can't.
Do it at that point.
And I do that stuff well if Igive my, if I allow myself
(41:38):
enough time and if I'm in a goodmental space at that point.
Yeah.
When I'm like trying to gosomewhere, that is not the time
to do that stuff.
But that seems to be when Iremember that I need to do those
things.
So I do think some of it'sroutine and I think that as we
grow out of the baby phase,where not a lot of things are
routine.
(41:58):
'cause that's what I struggledwith was the lack of routine.
And now that things are gettinga little bit more, okay, here
this day we go here and this daywe do this.
Yeah.
You're thriving routine andthere's a little bit more
structure and I'm starting tofind that okay, even though it's
a lot more to manage, likeschedule-wise and who has to go
where I do better with thestructured routine so that it's
(42:19):
like more of a habit.
We do this day.
Okay.
So then I know this the daybefore we have to do this, so
I'm coming back to it a littlebit more.
So it's helping both of us.
It's helping.
Yeah.
But this was great.
I think was so helpful.
This was a great conversation,was helpful.
And then you have me, the momwho's you know what, there's a
CVS nearby.
If I forget it, eh, I'll just goby it.
It's just a very healthy way tothink because as long as it's
(42:40):
not cleats.
Yes, exactly right.
Oh, you know what?
I'll tell you.
We forgot my son's cleats and Iinsta carted a pair of cleats to
the field.
Yeah, okay.
When there is a will, they'reway, you have to just be
resourceful.
So you have to be resourceful.
I love it.
Yeah.
You have four kids or two kids,or any kids.
You have to be resourceful.
That's so impressive.
That's really impressive.
(43:00):
This was so great.
So we close all of our episodeswith a pink spotlight, which is
a person, place, tip thing.
Anything that you wanna sharethat makes life a little bit
better for you or easier foryou.
So it could pertain to what wetalked about.
It could be completely out ofleft field and something that
you just wanna share.
But do you have a pink spotlightfor us today?
I can think it just comes fromwhat we were just saying.
(43:21):
Okay.
And because this is true in myown life.
Yes.
It's just so much easier to whenyou see that thing on the
counter that needs to be put.
Just do it now.
Yes.
Just do it now.
Just do it now.
It just ease up your brain.
It's just nice because I don'thave to now store that and
remember I have to go and dothat.
It's just, I like that I'vetried to do that, but I like the
immediate, but I've said if atask takes under five minutes in
(43:42):
my head and I'm like, gonna goput it on a list, just do it
now.
That's but I like that even thequickness of just, you see
something like, just do it.
Yeah.
But you could bring up a goodpool.
Yeah.
I don't mean I'm gonna sit downand do my taxes now.
That takes too long.
No.
But just the immediate just thestuff in your environment,
because that clutters our minds,right?
Yes.
I know, like I still have tobring that stuff upstairs.
Just do it.
Just do it now.
Okay.
(44:03):
It gets invited to a birthdayparty.
Rsvp, buy the gift.
Do it now.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Put it in the calendar or stopat CVS on the way to the party.
Get a gift card.
Great day.
Great tip.
I like that mantra.
Yes.
I love that too.
Do you have one for us?
I have a quick tip for us today.
Okay.
So I've been listening topodcasts in my audiobook.
(44:23):
Not at the speed of one anymore.
You can do it at one time,something I like it.
Which speeds it up a little bit,but not so much that it's and
you're, you can't understand it.
So I've been listening to mypodcasts and my audio books at
speed 1.25.
Sometimes I listen to 1.5.
If it's like something that Ireally need to digest quickly,
but for the most part, it's forleisure.
(44:45):
I like that.
And maybe people can listen toour podcast on one point.
Sometimes we get verylong-winded here.
You don't have an hour to listento us.
You don't have an hour and ahalf.
So if you go on a 45 minute walkand you only listen to your
thing on your walk and you hateoh, I wanted to finish this,
just.
Speed it up a little bit.
Yeah.
Oh, I love that.
So that's my tip.
Yeah, that's a great tip.
That's tip.
I love that.
And people could do that rightnow.
(45:05):
You can even sample it.
You can literally go and hit itnow.
Once you get used to the speedof people talking that like that
it,'cause it sounds fast at thebeginning, but then I've even
sometimes done like 1.5 or I'vedone,'cause you get used to it
and you're like, okay, I'm I'mkeeping track.
I can follow this.
Yeah.
And then you just breeze throughyour content that you wanna
listen to and you don't have setkey all the time.
Got into, I got into Nick's carthe other day and he was
(45:27):
listening to a podcast at 1.5and I was like, oh, you have it
on fast.
Let me slow it down.
He goes, oh no, this wasintentional.
This is how I listen to things.
Like you're in the dinosaur agesof listening to things at once.
Yeah, at real time.
Who has time for that?
Who has time to listen to us foran hour?
I love that.
So mine this week is, I havebeen, now I'm.
(45:47):
A year and eight monthspostpartum with my second, and
this year has been like myhealth journey, like just
getting myself back healthy,mentally healthy.
I really tried to focus on that,but also physically healthy.
And what's been frustrating tome is the, like my lack of.
Routine exercise wise, and I've,I'm a big Pilates girl.
(46:07):
I've always loved to go intoPilates and right now the class
schedules just do not work withmy lifestyle.
And so I've al, we had Leah Ian,who is my favorite Pilates
instructor in person, shelaunched an app and she does a
lot of reformer Pilates as wellas I feel like I did all her map
Pilates and I was like, okay Ineed more different, I wanna go
(46:28):
back to the reformer.
And I ended up buying myself areformer, which was a huge
investment for me.
But I was like, this makes a lotof sense for me because first of
all, I have her app and so I canactually stream Leah, who is my
favorite Pilates instructor,and.
It's gonna pay for itself withina year.
Yeah, because I'm gonna use,you're gonna come over.
(46:49):
Yeah.
So you, there we go.
Now it'll be even less, but itmakes sense.
But because to go to the studiothe amount of times I would want
to every single week, theseclasses are expensive.
Per expensive.
So I just said, you know what?
Dollars a class, I'll pay thisoff in a year.
By the time I like eliminatethat.
Cost of going to the classes.
Yeah.
Your RI, my ROI is gonna comeback to me within a year and
(47:10):
I've been doing Pilates for fiveyears, so I know that I'm gonna
actually use it.
Yeah.
And I ordered a reformer.
You have a good foundation.
Leah gave me a, Leah gave me therecommendation for the at home
reformer that she wouldrecommend, and I bought it and
it arrived in a crate in mydriveway.
And I was at, I was actually atyour house.
My husband goes, there is acrate in our driveway.
Like, how did they, how do wethink that we're getting this
(47:31):
into the house?
But we like opened up.
We got it.
It was mostly assembled.
I know I said we you sorry.
As we do hydroco on it.
Yes.
But it was like prettyassembled.
We were surprised.
These muscles are just for you.
The, we were surprised.
It came mostly assembled, whichwas really nice.
I said, that's why there's acrate.
'cause it's mostly assembled andwe got it into the basement how
happy are you?
I am like a new human.
(47:52):
I'm like, okay, now I know I canwake up.
If I wanna wake up before thekids and get this done, it's
gonna be part, again, back tothe routine and how important
that's been for me.
I'm like, and then I don't, Icould get it out of the way or
even if I don't, and it goes alittle awry and I'm like, okay,
I can't do it before the kidswake up.
I know I can squeeze anotherpoint of the day in.
And so that anxiety of now I'mnot gonna be able to work out
(48:13):
today is gonna be eliminatedbecause I can just fit it in at
another point.
In the day'cause it's in mybasement.
Yeah.
And so I, I am feeling very goodand optimistic about it.
So I'm excited to have that.
And I'll definitely film and ifI can get a code for our
listeners, I definitely will.
'cause I love it so much.
So I'm excited.
Yay.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Good.
Cool.
This was a terrificconversation.
(48:35):
Thank you so much for having us.
Where can our listeners find youif they wanna see you themselves
or if they have children thatwanna see you?
Where can our listeners findyou?
I have a webpage.
It's dr keho do com.
So yeah, contact informationthere.
Perfect.
Okay.
And she is in Avon, Connecticut.
Yeah, she's terrific.
Great with kids, great withadults.
Love it.
And great with moms.
This is great.
Thank you so much.
(48:55):
This has been so helpful for ourlisteners.
And if you have Pippa's, if youhave any questions, you can text
that, text us at the bottom ofour show notes and we can get
some of that answered or followup questions or whatever.
But we're so happy to have youand lucky.
No, thanks.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
We'll see you guys next week.
Bye.
I'm Christina and I'm t and thisis the Pretty and Pink Again
podcast where Motherhood meetsrediscovery.
Welcome, Dr.
Keho.
Hello.
Thanks for having me.
(00:20):
How are you?
I'm good.
I'm happy to be here.
We are so happy to be here.
We're on the road.
Yes.
You and I have taken our show onthe road a couple of times.
We're so excited to be in youroffice today, and we're really
excited to get into this topicbecause we've like playfully
joked about it.
We've talked about just, I guessin our kind of complaining and
(00:40):
like related, we hide behindhumor a lot.
Yeah, we do.
We've thrown around terms, whichwe shouldn't, but.
I feel like sometimes my mindjust doesn't operate how it used
to.
And I'm starting to question ifit ever operated at a stellar
level.
But all of this is just comingand we're titling this episode.
(01:00):
Is it mom brain or is it a DHD?
Like, could this have, Couldsome of our, mental hurdles as
moms were they masked aschildren and maybe they were
forgotten or maybe they weremisdiagnosed and this is why
we're having this issue.
Or there maybe weren't resourcesthen maybe things have
progressed and so things maybe30 years ago we didn't uncover
(01:21):
them.
But we wanna unpack this with anexpert and talk about this
because, and we had been talkingoff air just about.
You were calling it the trackingof all of the things that as
moms we have to do.
I like that word.
I don't think as women used it,I think as women too, not just
as mom.
I think as women, yes.
All the mental tracking.
'cause we always call it themental load, but it really is,
(01:43):
it's mental tracking.
'cause it's not just a load thatyou're carrying, it's the
tracking of everything.
So I liked that word.
Now that's gonna be my new,that's gonna be my new thing
that I use when I think of atracker.
I think of if I had an air tagfollowing me around all day and
then at the end of the day youlooked to see where it went.
I'd be like, what did I do?
I just went in a whole bunch ofcircles.
(02:04):
Round and round.
But yeah.
So I'll give our listeners alittle bit of a backstory.
So Dr.
Keho and I met a few years agobecause you are my son's doctor
and she saw my middle sonVincent.
Just quick backstory for ourlisteners, why I think this
topic has really hit home to meis I have four kids.
Two of my boys have a DHD onehas attention, what is it called
(02:27):
in atten?
Inattentive, predominantlyinattentive type.
Inattentive type.
And then my younger son has moreof the hyperactivity.
So my middle son was seen by Dr.
Keho.
She did a fullneuropsychological evaluation on
him.
He has since now had a lot ofsupport in school, at home
medication, and both of my boysare thriving.
(02:47):
And during that process ofuncovering all of this
information about my kids, I'mlike.
I'm filling out the evaluationsfor them with them, and I'm like
checking all these boxes thatpertain to myself as well.
Yeah.
Or maybe did when I was a kid.
Maybe some things I grew out of,some things you learn how to
work around.
So here I am now as ascatterbrained mom and insert
(03:09):
this important conversation.
Yeah.
So yeah, I don't think, I thinkthat's not uncommon that
sometimes going through thatprocess of having a child
evaluated a parent will look atand as we're talking about
symptoms and think, that's me.
We're talking about me not tomake it about me, but this is
me.
Yeah.
Those are the same challenges Ihad and so it's, it can be
(03:29):
eye-opening for the parent too,that explains it.
That's why that was so hard forme.
So let's get into it.
So what is A-D-H-D-A-D-D?
Like what exactly is this?
Dr.
Keo.
Okay.
Starting point.
Okay that diagnostic label comesfrom our DSM five now.
Diagnostic and StatisticalManual of Mental Disorders were
on the fifth edition.
(03:49):
So earlier editions would hadtwo different distinction.
There was an A D, and there wasan A DHD.
And more than 10 years, now it'sall under this umbrella of A
DHD.
It's all called A DHD.
And then we specify the subtype.
So it's the predominantlyinattentive presentation or the
predominantly impulsive,hyperactive presentation, or
(04:11):
it's the combined type.
It's confusing to a lot ofpeople who are, no, I'm a DD,
but it's it's all now, it's allthe same age.
Just, we just specify the type.
It's a neurodevelopmentaldisorder.
So it's a condition that makesit hard for someone to focus,
pay attention.
They may have difficulty, motoroveractivity, being fidgety,
being impulsive and they're notjust occasional lapses.
(04:33):
You wanna see that these areongoing challenges for an
individual and it that it'saffecting their life at school,
socially, out in the community.
You wanna see that it impactsthem in two, two settings, not
just one, and you wanna seesymptoms before age 12.
So in this case, when we'retalking about people getting
identified later, it'sneurodevelopmental, you wanna be
able to say, it can be tracedback.
(04:54):
And it's hard to do thatsometimes because you are not
talking to people in real time.
I'm talking to you aboutsomething that happened, 30
years ago.
What do you think?
And so it can be tricky, whichthat's where talking to parents
and other people that you knewyou at the time may be good
informants for currently, whenyou are questioning, does
someone in the family have anissue like this teacher is a
(05:15):
really good partner in thisbecause we as parents might
think we're comparing perhapstwo kids and one looks really
inattentive compared to theother.
That's an N of two.
You really want the teacher'sgonna be able to say in a
classroom, your kid is totallywithin normal limits.
I wouldn't be worried at all.
Or they'll say, I think you'reright.
I think they're having troublehere that we probably need to,
(05:37):
evaluate.
So that's why when you have yourchild evaluate, they have
multiple people fill out theseforms because you want, you said
several different perspectives,maybe perspectives and
environments.
So maybe like the coach fillsout one, the parent fills out
one, the teacher fills out one.
Yeah.
You want to make sure that it'shappening across settings.
Now, it may not be, but it getstricky, right?
(06:00):
Because let's say we're talkingabout sports.
Maybe my kid loves sports andthat's what they're all about.
And whatever an attention isthere, it's not really visible
because, okay, they missed theplay, but they saw three kids
ahead of them do the play.
So it may not be as obvious insome settings as others.
It's probably not one size fitsall too.
And like you're saying, ifsomething, if you're more into
(06:20):
something or if something comesmore easy to you, then maybe
that's not the area that youwould struggle in, but maybe in
school if something is moredifficult.
So it probably could vary, whichI'm sure makes it very tough.
Yeah.
And I feel like this has comesuch a long way because t and I
are the same age.
We're 39.
It was that it was a DD when wewere kids.
And so you're saying it hasprogressed so much in 30
(06:42):
something years?
Yeah.
From where we came from.
Yeah.
It is it can present differentlyin different sense.
Yeah.
And so then maybe, okay, itdidn't happen in sports, they're
the rockstar out there, but itmight be, oh, but they can't sit
through church.
Look at all the other kids inclass are able to, or whatever
other setting you wanna look at.
There's other settings to lookat there.
The family reunions place.
It's not just our home.
(07:03):
They're a standout in thatsetting too.
And the important thing to dotoo is to make sure this is not
something else.
Having troubles withconcentration and attention.
That's on the list of symptomswith depression.
That's gonna happen withanxiety.
Someone's ruminating they're notable to pay attention'cause
they're worrying about things.
So what would be a, like a coresymptom in all types?
(07:24):
So for the inattentive type,there's two blocks here.
So the inten inattentivesymptoms, and then there's the
hyperactive impulsive symptoms.
So examples of what's on theinattentive list fails to give
close attention to details ormakes careless mistakes.
Doesn't seem to listen whenspoken to directly, doesn't
follow through on instructions,fails to finish things.
(07:46):
For the hyperactive andimpulsive side of things.
It's fidgeting with your hands,leaving your seat, and other
situations in which remainingseated is expected.
Runs around or climbs too muchat times when it's
inappropriate, difficultyplaying quietly.
So some of these, they're biasedtowards the younger kid.
Yeah.
So if I see a teenager, they'reunlikely getting out of their
(08:08):
seat and climbing.
But they might fall into thefidgety not finishing
assignments.
They might fall into some ofthese other things.
Talking too much feeling on thego.
Blurting out.
Blurting out answers.
Yeah.
Interrupting those type ofdifficulty waiting turns.
Yeah.
So those are the types ofsymptoms that are listed here.
And they're more behavioral.
These don't always tap intoperhaps the internal experience
(08:31):
of the kid who I can't payattention because behaviorally
it may not look that way to theobserver.
I suspect we will be talkingabout that.
'cause we're talking about mom,so that's a key.
So a lot of people that I do seeare teenagers.
And later in the game early on,it's a bit easier.
Let's say, especially with thecombined type, the teacher's
trying to catch'em with abutterfly net, nobody questions
(08:51):
it.
It's yep, we got the diagnosis.
It was easy.
We did a teacher checklist, amom checklist, done by the
doctor.
That's what it is.
But you get a kid that is quiet,behaved, no signs of the
hyperactive side of things, andoften seemingly look like
they're paying attention, thosekids may not be recognized till
much later.
And it's usually them trying totell people I can't pay
(09:13):
attention, okay.
It's actually coming from them.
Like I spent four hours in myroom and I was probably
productive for one.
I can't keep my mind on this.
And again, these are teenageyears, so you wanna make sure
this is not something else.
This is not.
Something's going on at schooland I'm upset about you.
You want this to be a persistentright issue I'm sure that it's
become more thorough as this hasbeen studied more and I feel
(09:36):
like the labels are changing andso it's a little bit more
thorough now.
But was this missed a long timeago?
Was this easier to miss?
'cause you're saying sometimesthings aren't flagged.
If the kid maybe was nothyperactive, some of these
things were getting missed untilthey were teenagers.
Is it possible that this gotmissed, like entirely?
Yeah.
I often think the kids that arethe externalizers that are,
(09:58):
bouncing in their seat.
Sometimes they're luck are like,okay, they got flagged
immediately.
And then you'll find kids thatlike struggled a long time and
Oh, I went an extra 10 yearsbefore anybody realized.
But in terms of as a whole, allof us go back in time.
Lots of things were missed.
Course, of course.
There's, I think, increasedtolerance for the whole range of
things.
Lots of people with dyslexiawould've been so you can, in any
(10:18):
family, when I meet familieswith any condition, it's Oh
yeah, we think so and so.
Mm-hmm.
had it, grandpa, grandma, but itwasn't formally diagnosed.
It's often it was, we think theyhad it never formally diagnosed.
I don't think that many peoplewere formally dosing.
Yeah.
Diagnosed in the past.
So is this hereditary then?
Is it something that is passeddown?
There's a hereditary component,yes.
(10:39):
Okay.
So that's interesting that I'msure now that people are
starting to be flagged, it'll beeasier to track things.
But like you're saying, if therewas generations where this was
completely missed, That's agreat question.
My, when my kids were goingthrough this, my dad was like,
oh, what are you going throughall this for?
Back in my day, if you had antsin your pants, you would get a
(10:59):
job where you were boots on theground.
You would get a job inconstruction or at an office
setting.
You would give your body what itneeded.
Basically.
It's so Vincent's just a kidthat has ants in his pants.
Great.
And so and I think one way tolook at it earlier on, people
probably would remember peopleweren't trying to go to school
for so long, so it would be,okay, so you go to eighth grade
(11:19):
instead of 12.
May not have a big bearing onyour life, given what people
used to do.
Might be like, okay, school'snot for you.
That's okay.
Yeah.
That's I think what he wastrying to That's a good point.
'cause now everything became youhave to stay in school for so
much longer.
Maybe school ended around highschool and now it's like mostly
everybody goes to college.
And so graduate school youreally have Yeah.
Graduate school after continuingeducation.
(11:40):
So it's like if you want toquote unquote Thrive now in a
school setting, if you needhigher education to do the
career path that you want this,you're, you really are in the
school setting.
You could be in it until you'rein your mid late twenties even.
Yeah.
So yeah we see'em as a society,right?
So life has changed dramaticallyso much so not just are we
pursuing educational for muchpursuits for a much longer
(12:02):
period of time, but just ourenvironment, this could be a
whole other topic.
All the things that were hitwith, all the electronics, all
the things that, that wasn't inthat life before.
That was a much quieter time.
Yeah.
Probably the threshold forseeing some of this stuff would
be higher.
So it's part of the talk alwaysis are people really having this
diagnosis more or it's right.
Just the other way of lookingat, it's our lifestyle is
(12:23):
revealing it more because we'reputting people to the limits of
what they can do all the time.
Yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
Just one of the things that Iwas supposed to do with my son
before school was I was supposedto have him move before school,
so I would have to play catchwith him or have him throw a
ball up against the wall or getsome of his energy out.
And my dad was like, this isridiculous.
I used to walk to school threemiles every day and then I'd
(12:43):
walk home three miles every day.
So that was my movement the day,which did that.
Your son doesn't have a threemile walk.
Exactly.
So his point was that I had thistoo when I was a kid, but my
lifestyle was so different thatit didn't impact me as much.
So things have changed so muchand also coupled with all of the
new research and professionalslike yourself, so we're able to
(13:04):
diagnose and recognize this morein our youth.
And so now I wanna pivot to usas moms who fell into this.
Undiagnosed generation, butstill are living this life where
you're constantly togglingbetween things back and forth
and you're constantly trackingthings and things are being
pinged, ping pinged at you.
(13:25):
And even somebody that maybe hasa very sound mind, how do you
stay focused?
Yeah, always a question.
We always say, sometimes we askthe questions, and then we know
there's really no hack, there'sno, it's just, it's hard.
We're just posing it out in theworld.
So just on the front end of it,so much to look at, which is,
(13:47):
thinking about how people kindof land in sometimes in these
roles that they didn'tnecessarily.
Sign up for, it's just thenatural development of a
couplehood.
Are you working?
Are you not working?
Are you working?
But are you still absorbing, thebulk of the childcare?
Are you still doing the bulk ofthis inside the house stuff?
We think a lot of moms end upfalling into situations where
perhaps they realize they'vetaken on way more than they can
(14:11):
really handle.
So that's part of it, that'spart of the lens to look through
before you even think aboutcould this be a DHD is or is
what you're doing evenreasonable for anybody to do.
It may be that you've taken onway more than you can do, then
anybody can do.
So the answer is yes.
Yes.
The answer is yes.
So if that's the case, and Ilove that you brought that point
up.
Yes, I agree.
Because, some of us are just,we've gotta do it all and gotta
(14:34):
do it perfectly.
So you've got, all moms, I thinkhaving their heart, I want the
beautiful, nutritious meal.
They came from Whole Foods withall the food.
That's my plan for every day.
And there's some moms that I'mgonna do that I don't care, you
know what else doesn't happen,but that's gonna happen.
And then you've got the moms whoare gonna be like, okay, 40 a
week we're gonna have a goodmeal.
And the other three, we're allgonna, we're gonna be fine with
(14:55):
mac and cheese, or whatever itis.
And so people are gonna pushthemselves differently.
And those that I think have thatperfectionistic, get rigid about
the rules that they want thingsto go, they can perhaps
sometimes struggle a littlemore, get a little more
frustrated.
So that perfectionistic andmaybe anxious is not a DHD.
(15:16):
Those are very different things.
So that's why I say like that,the starting point probably may
be to say, okay, what are youdoing?
Could anybody do this?
Realistically, and just tryingto look at the range of what
you're doing.
And I think we were talkingabout before, just the amount
just parcel out the childmanagement stuff.
Just, their schedules, gettingthat stuff into a calendar,
(15:38):
managing this stuff that can'tget into a calendar.
Talk about the diaper bag.
Having to remember, did I putfresh diapers in there?
Do I have white, that wholeongoing dialogue you have in
your brain about that darndiaper bag and is it ready to
go?
And it just stays online, right?
You just have that mullingaround in your brain a lot.
So there's just the demands fora parent.
They're just a lot.
(15:59):
Yeah.
They just are.
It's probably like brain fatiguebecause your mind is always on,
especially when your kids arevery young, and I'm sure even as
they get older you're justthinking constantly.
Like it's so much preparation.
We've talked about that, but wenever talked about how
exhausting that can be.
Like sometimes you wanna prepareyourself so that you're
organized so that things go wellfor you so that you know the day
(16:20):
goes well for you.
But that is constant it's likebeing online all the time and
you never shut down your brain.
So it's just all day and howfatiguing that can be on a
woman.
So it, even when they get older,it's, and let's say it's more
scheduled it's still do I feedthem, two hours before they go
to that practice?
Yeah.
I feed'em, just give'em a snack.
(16:41):
It's just trying to manageminutiae of everybody's life.
Yes.
They can't do it yet.
And then if you have teenagersthat are a DHD or, and they are
still not managing, you're stilldoing it.
You're still providing a lot ofsupport and trying to figure out
how to give them support.
That's a whole other, topic.
Topic Yeah.
Is you're trying to model foryour kids and teach them to do
(17:01):
things and talk to them acertain way and and then you're
like, your mind is goingconstantly.
You're always trying to balance,giving enough support, but not
too much support and wanting tohelp them be successful.
So it's tricky.
But if you, in all of this, ifyou are a parent who really is
doing all this with an unundiagnosed A DHD, yeah.
I would it's harder.
It's harder.
(17:22):
You mentioned in, in the under12 population and in your teen
population, some of thedifferences of things that
you're seeing.
What are some of thecommonalities that you would see
in our age population?
It's the same list.
Same list.
It's the same list.
When you're an adult, you,instead of needing, say, six of
the inattentive symptoms, youneed five.
So they just take one off, butyou're still looking at those
(17:45):
same symptoms.
But as I say, so if you look atthe hyperactive and impulsive
ones, we'll probably, again,we're not talking about getting
outta your seat and climbing.
Okay.
You may be talking too much, youmay be interrupting and it's
that mom who just got back fromthe playground.
Did I say that?
Why did I say that?
Oversharing just not putting thebrakes on.
When you're stretched to thelimit of what you can do, you're
(18:05):
not as good at compensating ormasking some of the symptoms
that you would be.
Able to do normally.
That's really interesting.
So is this missed in women alot?
Especially with moms, a lot ofthe, like even for tea, you've
been so open with, you didn'treally start experiencing
anxiety until you had kids,until your kids started to be a
little bit older and you weremanaging all of the things and
(18:27):
that came out as like more of ananxious behavior.
Mm-hmm.
But is this missed in women?
Because I feel like with women,it's very common for moms and
women to just like expressanxiety, to express they're
doing too much.
We're trying to keep track oftoo many things.
I feel like we are in thisgeneration where it's like easy
to express that and everyone'syeah, me too.
(18:47):
But is this missed in women?
I don't have a huge end to tellyou.
Yeah.
Because I think a lot what we'retalking about that experience
of, oh yeah, that explains me.
But the number of people thatthen are pursuing it, saying, I
really gotta find out now if Ihave, that's not everybody, but
I would say it very much.
The quiet, well-behaved right.
Teenage girls that I see who arethe ones telling people around
(19:10):
them, I can't pay attention.
No, nobody would've identifiedthem.
It's them saying I can't payattention.
So I would liken it to thatperson.
But if you imagine that kiddidn't say anything and just
went on with some inefficientstrategies, put their crash
helmet on, did it got throughhigh school and got through
college, and maybe thatmotherhood is the next big
hurdle in their lives where I'vemet my match.
(19:32):
I can't compensate for this.
This is too much.
For me to do.
So yeah, I would think there'slots of people that's gonna be
the next point in their lifethat they could be work but this
could be another place.
Yeah.
So maybe some of it wasmanageable before motherhood,
but motherhood, I like that yousaid it's like a, it's the next
big hurdle of your life whereit's, you have to.
Function, you have to function.
(19:53):
And some of the things that youmight have done prior, again,
I've mentioned like the kidwho's procrastinating, then
taking care of it with an allnighter, I got it all done.
You can't really do that as aparent.
Like you can't go without sleeplike that.
That's not an option.
You've gotta sleep when you can.
So some of the things that youmight have done before aren't
gonna work in this situation.
Yeah.
It's like all of it bubbles upand then it's just at the
surface now because there's notime for your brain to go
(20:15):
offline.
There's no time to re rely.
Like you can't mask it anylonger.
So you gave some examples hereabout forgetting appointments,
starting a project, notfinishing them, the mental
clutter, maybe the obviousphysical clutter of your home,
the guilt that's associated withthat.
The blurting the oversharing.
Let's just click all the boxes.
Yeah.
You've clicked all of the boxes.
(20:35):
Where do you go from there?
So there's a couple of things Iwould say.
'cause we did talk too about,you know what there's burnout
and there's mom brain.
And in fact, it's true.
Due to hormonal changes andsleep deprivation.
Those early on, I wouldn't berunning for an eval because
early on everybody knows niceclinical term, you feel a little
worked, your brain is notworking.
That's science fact.
(20:56):
So I wouldn't be running for thedoctor if, I'm still in that,
that pregnancy to infancy, I'min that phase of motherhood.
Yeah.
This is, I think that would benormal to now to be forgetful
and Okay.
Attract things.
So you'd wanna see it again,persistence through every phase
of childhood.
Now I'm really not able to do.
The mothering tasks as easily asI would've expected.
(21:18):
So you've checked all of theseboxes now.
Yeah.
And you are really thinking, Ihave this.
And you've come out of the verylittle kid stage where maybe
your hormones have started toregulate again.
Yeah.
You are getting better sleep atnight.
That fog has lifted, but yet youare still struggling daily with
flirting things out, rememberingtasks.
You're forgetting to take yourkids to certain appointments.
(21:40):
You're that mom that alwaysneeds the last minute reminder.
Oh, did you hand in theassignment?
You are now, that mom, whatwould you encourage somebody to
do then?
So part of this is looking at,it's disrupting my life.
And I think that's what you'regetting at.
Yeah.
It's now disrupting your life.
This is real.
This is not fun.
I'm, this is.
Think it's time to getevaluated.
(22:01):
I may end up being encouraged topursue a neuropsychological
evaluation.
Would you explain to ourlisteners a little bit about
what a neuropsych evaluationlooks like?
So this is instead of asking youabout how you use your brain,
it's having you show us how youuse your brain.
Okay.
So it's a sit down face to face.
A testing that happensone-on-one.
(22:21):
So it starts with a thoroughinterview, a look at
developmental history.
It might involve if available,talking to other people in your
life that may be able to speakto how things went for you as a
younger person and your husband,whoever might be a good later
resource.
And it's asking you to use yourbrain.
So looking at all differentcognitive domains, looking at
(22:43):
intellectual functioning, verbalskills, non-verbal skills,
executive skills in that, andcome back to, yes, new learning
and memory, academic skills.
And with an adult, maybe we'rejust screening that and then
your emotional and behavioralfunctioning.
So you're looking at all thosedomains and you're putting a
profile together because eventhough our question might be, I
really just wanna know about myattention, you can't really look
(23:04):
at that in isolation.
You have to be able to look atthat across a whole profile and
be able to say that it's aweakness.
You have to look at it againstother skills.
So the executive skills is animportant one that I just
mentioned, and people aren'tfamiliar with that.
That is the part of our brain.
It's the front of our brain,frontal lobes that mediates our
executive skills.
And while most of our brain,about 90% of the brain is fully
(23:28):
developed by the time we're fouror five, the exception to that
is the frontal lobes, which iscontinuing to grow up through
like our mid twenties, so whenkids are little, they don't have
much in the way of executiveskills yet, right?
There's, and then there's growthspurts along the way.
Middle school age, that's a bigtime for a growth spurt.
And then there's there's growthspurts up through that early
(23:49):
adulthood.
And you can see with lifedemands, how that tracks because
okay, middle school comes, thesekids are expected to switch
classes seven times.
Keep track of yourself acrossseven classes.
We used to keep a locker.
I don't think they do so muchanymore, but you.
Keep track of a lot of thisstuff.
Keep track of what you need foryour sports.
Someone's usually not hoveringover you anymore to do that
stuff.
Make sure you have your waterbottle on and on it goes.
(24:11):
And so we're expecting thesekids to become increasingly
independent through high school,certainly by college.
And, kids are gonna accomplishthat at different speeds.
And for the kid that has a DHDthat phase, that middle school
phase is another marker.
Another time that you might seesome kids come to clinical
attention because it was just alot for them to do.
(24:32):
They're not ready to do it yet.
And so if you try to imaginetaking this back to the mom, so
if I'm a mom, let's just say Ihave this undiagnosed condition,
and so my executive skills arenot great.
And by executive skills,management skills.
So that's things like, planningorganization tracking things,
keeping track of two things atthe same time.
Speed, making sure I'm doingthings at the right pace so I'm
(24:54):
not making mistakes.
Attention is under thisumbrella.
And so if I'm a bomb, that's myarea of weakness, but now I'm
taking care of little ones whodon't really have their
executive skills.
You have to imagine that's a lotof tracking to do.
So for a person who, that, ifthat's my weakness and now I'm
taking care of everybody'sexecutive skills, that can be
very overwhelming.
(25:15):
And so anyway, so you go throughthe eval, we get a profile and
we get a clinical opinion.
What does this mean?
And it's very important, again,like we're ruling out other
things too.
It's to call it a DHD, you wannabe able to say, this is not
depression, it's not anxiety.
And it's tricky even there,honestly, because somebody might
have some of those symptoms, butit's more, it's secondary to the
(25:37):
A-D-A-D-H-D stuff.
So hard.
It is making me sad.
It's making me anxious'cause I'mnot doing it well.
So you gotta tease things apartversus the person who was
already depressed, alreadyanxious and now I can't pay
attention.
But there you can have thosesymptoms.
Also because of the A DH D'sdriving it.
So maybe A DHD could be the rootand you've been somebody that
(25:59):
has been diagnosed with anxietyor depression, but really it's
because you had this underlyingcondition you've been struggling
your whole life with.
That's so interesting.
And those are things that can beuncovered and teased out during
a neuropsychological evaluation.
Careful evaluation.
Careful evaluation that youperform.
Yeah.
Wow, that's really interesting.
Jumping ahead.
(26:20):
What are some of the, then, whatwould a treatment plan look
like?
Is it always jumping tomedication?
Are there executive functioningskills you can put in place for
patients?
What are the next steps?
Yeah, so next steps, right?
So there's a whole, just asthere is for the kids there's a
range of options.
So there's, there is that optionof medication.
(26:42):
Some people may be interested inthat, others may not.
The next line I would thinkwould be to work with a
cognitive behavior therapist tohelp you develop strategies,
skills to compensate forexecutive weaknesses.
Putting compensatory strategiesin place, checklists, getting
routine, getting your life withsome routine is important.
(27:02):
You just talked about cognitivebehavioral therapists and we had
a therapist come on our podcastmonths ago, one of our early on
episodes, and she talked atlength about CBT.
Yeah.
And so I'd love you to expand alittle bit more on that,
especially as it pertains tothis.
Yeah.
It could be CBT, it or it couldbe an executive coach.
You wanna find somebody whosays, this is in my wheelhouse,
(27:24):
this is stuff that I do.
I'm gonna help you getorganized, or let's, and you
want someone to meet with youand say, this is where I'm
struggling.
This is the part that's hard forme.
Is it keeping track of fiveschedules, coming up with
strategies.
How are we gonna do this?
Am I keeping one calendar?
Am I keeping two?
Figuring out what's the best wayto, to organize all that I have
to organize.
And just, I think puttingroutines in place is really
(27:46):
important.
Studying reminders, using theapps on our phone for that,
using checklists.
Sticky notes, whatever it iscoming up with strategies, but
it's a personalized thing.
Somebody talking with you about,where I'm struggling with in my
life, this is a thing I keep,this is a repeat problem.
Finding strategies for that.
There's always the standardlifestyle changes too, of just
(28:06):
healthy diet, exercise, makingsure we're getting good sleep.
Those things are important foreverybody, but they're gonna
really be important if you'realso trying to manage this.
It might be that I even feellike, oh, I want a support
group.
Finding a group of other adultsthat are struggling with A DHD
could be something to bepursued.
Finding family members orfriends that are good supports.
It might even be able to providesome instrumental support.
(28:27):
This is really hard for me, butyou have somebody who I'm just
gonna give you my meal plan I'musing for the week, with my
kids.
It'll work for you.
It might lessen your load alittle bit too, if you have
other people around you that aregiving you.
Tools that you can thenimplement.
You don't have to do theresearch to find it.
Or you might just say let'salternate weeks.
You do the meal plan for bothour families for week one.
I'll do it for week two.
No, it's just something likethis like that for somebody that
(28:47):
may be a big deal, deal changerof that part's really hard for
me.
So yeah.
But it's, again, it's just veryneeds to be personalized
personally.
We're not talking about schoolanymore.
We're talking about we'retalking about your life.
Yeah.
We're talking about managementof life, management of kids and
it's hard.
Can you speak to medicine atall?
There are, there's a lot ofreally good medications out
(29:08):
there.
We used to be offered, I thinkone back in the day, it was,
would you like Lin?
There's a lot.
I think for folks that feel.
Worried there's a lot ofoptions.
A lot of them are the classicstimulant medications.
Some of them are thenon-stimulant.
But it may be worth the sometrials to see what works best
for you.
And that's something that onceyou've performed this neuropsych
(29:30):
evaluation and have presentedthat information to the
patients, is it psychiatriststhat would prescribe this, or
would it be your primary caredoctor?
Or how do you go about that?
Yeah.
Yep.
So this is interesting.
'Cause with the kids these days,the pediatricians would become
frontline, right?
They usually are comfortable andsay I'll do it.
It's okay.
You don't have to go to aseparate psychiatrist.
(29:50):
But if you're an adult, I thinkit depends on your PCP and how
comfortable they feel with this.
They may say, I'd rather youwork with a psychiatrist first,
get you stable on a medication,then I'll take it over or.
I want you to just do this withpsychiatry.
So it really depends on your pcpIt's a talk with your doctor.
I guess when there's otherthings associated with this,
like anxiety and depression.
Yeah.
(30:11):
If it starts to get messy andit's I also need treatment for
these other things.
I think they're definitelyPsychiatrist so we talked a
little bit about mom brain.
I think that I was the one thatwas throwing that out.
Like we've talked on podcastsand I think it was just me and t
on a podcast and we've talkedabout just.
I'm like a big need to labelthings.
Like for internally, I'msomebody that if I see,
(30:34):
especially like we've said likethe TikTok doctors and the
Instagram, there's so muchinformation out there right now,
and so I will see something.
And I'll be like, that soundslike me.
Maybe I have that.
That's a classic Christinainternal dialogue.
And so I think I had thrown outthe, okay, am I just
experiencing mom brain or isthis something further?
(30:57):
And I've talked openly justabout how I've struggled with
anxiety and depression withinmotherhood.
Some of these things I do thinkI had before, but I think
motherhood has just sent themthrough the roof.
And so some of these things seemlike they overlap with things
that that are going on in mybrain, but I don't really know,
is it mom brain or is thissomething further?
(31:19):
Is this something that wasmisdiagnosed?
My mom swears it wasn't, but I'mlike, even misdiagnosed, maybe
undiagnosed, i it just wasn'tfound.
But I'm also just curious, isthis just something that I am in
the thick of motherhood rightnow.
I'm in the transition wherewe're going from little kids to
now we have, one of my kids isstarting school and we're a lot
(31:40):
more active.
We're entering that activityphase where now it's a lot of
things to manage, but.
Most of it was just me at homemanaging schedules, who's eating
what?
There are two different kids, sotwo different schedules, and
trying to manage myself in themiddle and trying to be a
working mom who works forherself.
So some of it I just, I have totry to give myself grace and
(32:01):
say, it's just a lot to freakingmanage.
Yes.
You need a trophy.
Yes.
Rather than say this is aproblem like, whatcha doing?
Doing wow.
That's amazing.
It's a lot, it's just a lot tomanage.
So I think sometimes I, you saidthat to her.
Yeah.
Sometimes it's just nice to hearthat you have to just give
yourself some grace and giveyourself some credit that this
is a lot, this is a lot foranybody to manage.
You said this at the beginningof the episode, it's just a lot
(32:22):
to do.
It's a lot for anybody tomanage.
But I guess when do you knowwhere's the line, yeah.
So that mom brain you refer to?
Yeah.
Not a clinical term, but we all,no, we all say it.
We say it in, but we do knowthere's, there are issues,
cognitive issues that come afteractually from pregnancy.
And they hormonal.
We've got hormonal, we've gotsleep deprivation, and we're
(32:43):
managing, early parenthooddemands.
So that's a big cognitive loadright there.
So I would, I think we aretalking about, getting us
through infancy and I think yousaid your youngest is one and a
half, I think one and a half, alittle bit over going towards
the tail end of just in terms ofthose actual physical changes
For sure.
That could be causing problems.
Yeah.
I'm probably right in the lineof where, okay.
(33:04):
I we have babies that sleep.
It's the hormonal aspect shouldbe wrapping up.
It's like, when do you flag itas I'm still struggling with
these things, yeah.
And we're talking about you,Christina, right now, but really
we're talking to our listenersfor sure, who are also you Yes.
Who are listening to this rightnow.
We've heard that, who arewaiting with bated breath to
(33:25):
hear what you have to say.
Because you hate it, because,you keep going back to I'm just
tired.
I'm not sleeping.
I'm in brain fog.
My hormones are still shiftingall over the place.
Nothing feels consistent yet,but then for me, I've been in
this space where it's okay,everything has been a little bit
more manageable.
So when do we flag it as I stilldon't feel right.
Like that's, yeah, that's agreat question.
(33:46):
And I don't know that I have theexact line for you.
Yeah, I just, off the, I wouldsay, gee, wanna give yourself
maybe two years, but yeah, thatis, I'm just putting that out
there.
But, you, again, the key word ispersistent.
You'd wanna see.
This didn't go away.
E even when it's in the rearview mirror and you can say
everything's regulated now, thisis not an issue.
I'm just keeping it.
And if you're still saying, andyet I'm not able to manage
(34:09):
these, mom tasks associated withchildcare and all the rest of
this and I still can't do this.
I think then yeah, you're sayingthis is persistent now.
Yeah.
I think that's good.
I think even if it's notcompletely accurate, it's'cause
it's different for everybody.
But I think just having atimeframe in your mind of being
able to say, okay, after twoyears, if this still seems off,
if it's persistent.
Yeah.
That's a great, it's just niceto know.
(34:30):
'cause I think a lot of thetimes you can just stay in that
place you know of.
My kids are little and I have alot going on, and you just you
don't get yourself to the nextstep.
Do you feel like it interfereswith your life?
Because that was another thingDr.
Keho said with like the kids isit really interfering with their
life day to day?
I guess that same question, it'sto yourself.
Yeah.
I don't think it's interfering.
(34:51):
It's just, to me it's annoyingand I've always considered
myself like a type A person, butI come at Type A.
And that verbiage from like aperfectionist standpoint.
Yeah.
I like things done by way, whichshe used those words earlier in
our conversation, but I've neveractually been a hyper organized
person.
So I think I teeter on yes, Ilike things done my way.
(35:14):
I have expectations of thingsand if they don't go the way I
want them to go, I'm very hardon myself.
It's a disaster.
It's a disaster.
It's terrible this week becausewe had McDonald's one day.
Yes.
Shut.
Yes.
So it's like the way I framemyself and the way I thought
that I was gonna be this type ofmom and now it's shifting and
I'm having to let things go androll with things.
But I've never been a, it's veryhard for somebody very hard who
(35:35):
prides themselves onperfectionism.
Yeah.
But I've also never been like asuper hyper organized person.
I did well in school.
I didn't do great in school.
I wasn't like a stellar academicperson, so I think I like teeter
on some of these things.
Some of them seem in line, but Idon't know if I would hit all
six or all nine, like you said.
So I think some of it just couldbe overlap with anxiety and
(35:57):
that's just how my brainoperates.
I need the checklist.
Yeah.
Should we read again?
Read, because checklist.
I wanna read the checklist.
Yeah.
Because I don't think we fullyread them.
Christina.
Christina and I have no shame inour game.
Oh no.
But I will gladly say yes or no.
Okay.
Okay.
Fails to give close attention todetails or makes careless
mistakes.
Check for Christina Bon tempoover here.
Okay.
I think that I could, that couldbe me now.
(36:20):
That could be me now.
Really?
You?
Yeah.
I think you always double checkour work and make sure it's
perfect.
See, I disagree with that foryou.
Okay.
But you tell yourself that Iwould know.
Okay.
But we've got the collateralinformants right here.
There we go.
Yeah.
So she, yeah.
That's why it's important for asecond person.
But you said you have it.
I'm the work wife has difficultymaintaining attention and tasks
or play activities.
That's like for a kid.
(36:40):
But for me, I would say yes, butbecause I could be on a task, I
always say, I'm like a browser,my brain and I have 50 tasks
open at a time.
And sometimes even for work orfor, if I'm trying to schedule
an appointment for one of mykids and I'm like, okay, I have
to go on and then I gotta log inhere and my brain, it's like I
could be like, log on, make theappointment, do this like step
(37:03):
by step and then something elsewill shift my attention.
One of your kids and then I'mlike, one of your kids I might
hear, yeah.
But like even still, I might belike, oh, you know what?
That reminds me that I need todo this.
And then I shift away from thatand I'm like, why did I go on
the computer?
Do the original task?
That's so that never reallyhappened to me before.
This is like something that'snew because I think that there's
(37:25):
just now so many more tabs thatare open.
So it's so many diversions away.
So that's okay.
So number three does not seem tolisten when spoken to directly.
I don't think I have that issue.
I don't think I have that issuethere.
No, I don't think you have thatissue.
Does not follow through oninstructions and fails to finish
things.
That's me.
It depends on what theinstructions are.
(37:45):
If they're auditoryinstructions, I'm on it.
Okay.
I have to read something and I'ma more visual person.
I, you lost me.
Yeah.
I still think they only have onefail to finish things is me all
day long.
I don't make decisions veryeasily.
So like I will get so far downin a task and then I'm like, I'm
out.
I don't, I'm overwhelmed and Ijust stop.
(38:07):
So that's me.
Has difficulty organizing tasksand activities.
I would say me sometimes, but Ican usually organize tasks is
just getting them done.
No, for me, I'm okay with that.
Yeah.
Okay.
With that, I'm okay with that.
Avoids dislikes or is reluctantto engage in tasks that require
continued mental effort.
(38:29):
Who likes to do things theydon't wanna do?
I know that's tricky.
It just don't, most people wannatake the path of what's
resistance, but I don't losesthings necessary for tasks or
activities.
For example, school assignments,pencils for me, it would be
like, I have to go somewhere.
Where are my keys?
You know what I mean?
It's what bag are they in?
I can't go until, so that'sbeen, again, something that that
happens to me all the time.
(38:50):
I'm glad.
Is that the last one that was,is easily distracted by other
things going on.
That is me and then it'sforgetful in daily activities.
I think that depends.
So there is another category ofA DH adhd, which is unspecified.
So sometimes you can give thatto folks who, let's say you
don't fully meet and you're atyour age five full, you're at
(39:11):
four and a half.
You've got enough here, and theimpact on your life is enough
that I feel like it is capturedby a DH, adhd.
There is another, yeah.
It's not that strict like it hasto be.
I have to find five.
So it might, if we've got enoughevidence and don't forget, by
bringing in theneuropsychological evaluation,
you've also not, you've gotquantitative data too to X,
right?
This is a behavioralpresentation.
(39:31):
If that's coupled withquantitative data that says
indeed attention is hard foryou.
And it's hard.
'cause I like you're saying,you're trying to answer for
yourself, but I like that you'resaying with the evaluation, it's
obviously like someone else isevaluating.
Yeah.
And you're supposed to be doinglike more real life things and
someone else can evaluate.
This is less about what do youthink?
And it's show me how thisattention is me.
(39:52):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
And so someone could stillconceivably get a diagnosis of a
DH, adhd, but it's none ofthose.
It would be an unspecified.
Okay.
That makes sense.
I'm curious for our listenerswho just heard us go through
that list, like how many of themwould check some of these boxes?
And also I should mention, ifyou have somebody coming to you,
clearly it's affecting theirlife enough, right?
If they're coming into youroffice.
(40:12):
Yeah.
So whether they've only checkedfour and a half of those boxes,
or the full five, just theirpresence here alone, I think
tells you that it's affectingtheir life.
It's a magnitude that'sproblematic.
The other big.
Key though is to make surethat's what it is, that it is
not something else.
I think that's very important.
That you can tease that out.
I know that was something thatyou had to work when you worked
with my son.
It was a two day longevaluation.
(40:35):
Okay.
Yeah.
This is expected then.
Age appropriate.
You knew at the time he waseight years old, you weren't
gonna have him sit in youroffice for six hours.
His hyperactive body, could nottolerate that.
But it was amazing the thingsshe was doing with him so we
could figure out how could heaccess the curriculum best.
Interesting.
And have that implemented intowhen we worked with the
(40:55):
behavioral specialist who madethis color coded schedules for
him.
Like how will his brain digestthis?
Not everything is just a pilland a diagnosis.
Yes.
And a box.
Yes.
Some of this is, all right,Christina, you're having trouble
with forgetting where you'rekeeping things.
You're gonna keep your keys nowhere every single time.
That's gonna be your new CBT.
That's gonna be what you donext.
And I think that's very helpful.
(41:16):
Like I think just that some ofthose like behavioral lifestyle
changes Yes.
In a season where you just haveso much going on, you have to
simplify and try to organizeyourself.
And so some of those are Yeah.
Routines.
Tea have to go here.
Yep.
The baby bag upon entry Yes.
Has to be restocked.
Yes.
I can't be doing that when I'mtrying to walk out.
I can't.
Do it at that point.
And I do that stuff well if Igive my, if I allow myself
(41:38):
enough time and if I'm in a goodmental space at that point.
Yeah.
When I'm like trying to gosomewhere, that is not the time
to do that stuff.
But that seems to be when Iremember that I need to do those
things.
So I do think some of it'sroutine and I think that as we
grow out of the baby phase,where not a lot of things are
routine.
(41:58):
'cause that's what I struggledwith was the lack of routine.
And now that things are gettinga little bit more, okay, here
this day we go here and this daywe do this.
Yeah.
You're thriving routine andthere's a little bit more
structure and I'm starting tofind that okay, even though it's
a lot more to manage, likeschedule-wise and who has to go
where I do better with thestructured routine so that it's
(42:19):
like more of a habit.
We do this day.
Okay.
So then I know this the daybefore we have to do this, so
I'm coming back to it a littlebit more.
So it's helping both of us.
It's helping.
Yeah.
But this was great.
I think was so helpful.
This was a great conversation,was helpful.
And then you have me, the momwho's you know what, there's a
CVS nearby.
If I forget it, eh, I'll just goby it.
It's just a very healthy way tothink because as long as it's
(42:40):
not cleats.
Yes, exactly right.
Oh, you know what?
I'll tell you.
We forgot my son's cleats and Iinsta carted a pair of cleats to
the field.
Yeah, okay.
When there is a will, they'reway, you have to just be
resourceful.
So you have to be resourceful.
I love it.
Yeah.
You have four kids or two kids,or any kids.
You have to be resourceful.
That's so impressive.
That's really impressive.
(43:00):
This was so great.
So we close all of our episodeswith a pink spotlight, which is
a person, place, tip thing.
Anything that you wanna sharethat makes life a little bit
better for you or easier foryou.
So it could pertain to what wetalked about.
It could be completely out ofleft field and something that
you just wanna share.
But do you have a pink spotlightfor us today?
I can think it just comes fromwhat we were just saying.
(43:21):
Okay.
And because this is true in myown life.
Yes.
It's just so much easier to whenyou see that thing on the
counter that needs to be put.
Just do it now.
Yes.
Just do it now.
Just do it now.
It just ease up your brain.
It's just nice because I don'thave to now store that and
remember I have to go and dothat.
It's just, I like that I'vetried to do that, but I like the
immediate, but I've said if atask takes under five minutes in
(43:42):
my head and I'm like, gonna goput it on a list, just do it
now.
That's but I like that even thequickness of just, you see
something like, just do it.
Yeah.
But you could bring up a goodpool.
Yeah.
I don't mean I'm gonna sit downand do my taxes now.
That takes too long.
No.
But just the immediate just thestuff in your environment,
because that clutters our minds,right?
Yes.
I know, like I still have tobring that stuff upstairs.
Just do it.
Just do it now.
Okay.
(44:03):
It gets invited to a birthdayparty.
Rsvp, buy the gift.
Do it now.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Put it in the calendar or stopat CVS on the way to the party.
Get a gift card.
Great day.
Great tip.
I like that mantra.
Yes.
I love that too.
Do you have one for us?
I have a quick tip for us today.
Okay.
So I've been listening topodcasts in my audiobook.
(44:23):
Not at the speed of one anymore.
You can do it at one time,something I like it.
Which speeds it up a little bit,but not so much that it's and
you're, you can't understand it.
So I've been listening to mypodcasts and my audio books at
speed 1.25.
Sometimes I listen to 1.5.
If it's like something that Ireally need to digest quickly,
but for the most part, it's forleisure.
(44:45):
I like that.
And maybe people can listen toour podcast on one point.
Sometimes we get verylong-winded here.
You don't have an hour to listento us.
You don't have an hour and ahalf.
So if you go on a 45 minute walkand you only listen to your
thing on your walk and you hateoh, I wanted to finish this,
just.
Speed it up a little bit.
Yeah.
Oh, I love that.
So that's my tip.
Yeah, that's a great tip.
That's tip.
I love that.
And people could do that rightnow.
(45:05):
You can even sample it.
You can literally go and hit itnow.
Once you get used to the speedof people talking that like that
it,'cause it sounds fast at thebeginning, but then I've even
sometimes done like 1.5 or I'vedone,'cause you get used to it
and you're like, okay, I'm I'mkeeping track.
I can follow this.
Yeah.
And then you just breeze throughyour content that you wanna
listen to and you don't have setkey all the time.
Got into, I got into Nick's carthe other day and he was
(45:27):
listening to a podcast at 1.5and I was like, oh, you have it
on fast.
Let me slow it down.
He goes, oh no, this wasintentional.
This is how I listen to things.
Like you're in the dinosaur agesof listening to things at once.
Yeah, at real time.
Who has time for that?
Who has time to listen to us foran hour?
I love that.
So mine this week is, I havebeen, now I'm.
(45:47):
A year and eight monthspostpartum with my second, and
this year has been like myhealth journey, like just
getting myself back healthy,mentally healthy.
I really tried to focus on that,but also physically healthy.
And what's been frustrating tome is the, like my lack of.
Routine exercise wise, and I've,I'm a big Pilates girl.
(46:07):
I've always loved to go intoPilates and right now the class
schedules just do not work withmy lifestyle.
And so I've al, we had Leah Ian,who is my favorite Pilates
instructor in person, shelaunched an app and she does a
lot of reformer Pilates as wellas I feel like I did all her map
Pilates and I was like, okay Ineed more different, I wanna go
(46:28):
back to the reformer.
And I ended up buying myself areformer, which was a huge
investment for me.
But I was like, this makes a lotof sense for me because first of
all, I have her app and so I canactually stream Leah, who is my
favorite Pilates instructor,and.
It's gonna pay for itself withina year.
Yeah, because I'm gonna use,you're gonna come over.
(46:49):
Yeah.
So you, there we go.
Now it'll be even less, but itmakes sense.
But because to go to the studiothe amount of times I would want
to every single week, theseclasses are expensive.
Per expensive.
So I just said, you know what?
Dollars a class, I'll pay thisoff in a year.
By the time I like eliminatethat.
Cost of going to the classes.
Yeah.
Your RI, my ROI is gonna comeback to me within a year and
(47:10):
I've been doing Pilates for fiveyears, so I know that I'm gonna
actually use it.
Yeah.
And I ordered a reformer.
You have a good foundation.
Leah gave me a, Leah gave me therecommendation for the at home
reformer that she wouldrecommend, and I bought it and
it arrived in a crate in mydriveway.
And I was at, I was actually atyour house.
My husband goes, there is acrate in our driveway.
Like, how did they, how do wethink that we're getting this
(47:31):
into the house?
But we like opened up.
We got it.
It was mostly assembled.
I know I said we you sorry.
As we do hydroco on it.
Yes.
But it was like prettyassembled.
We were surprised.
These muscles are just for you.
The, we were surprised.
It came mostly assembled, whichwas really nice.
I said, that's why there's acrate.
'cause it's mostly assembled andwe got it into the basement how
happy are you?
I am like a new human.
(47:52):
I'm like, okay, now I know I canwake up.
If I wanna wake up before thekids and get this done, it's
gonna be part, again, back tothe routine and how important
that's been for me.
I'm like, and then I don't, Icould get it out of the way or
even if I don't, and it goes alittle awry and I'm like, okay,
I can't do it before the kidswake up.
I know I can squeeze anotherpoint of the day in.
And so that anxiety of now I'mnot gonna be able to work out
(48:13):
today is gonna be eliminatedbecause I can just fit it in at
another point.
In the day'cause it's in mybasement.
Yeah.
And so I, I am feeling very goodand optimistic about it.
So I'm excited to have that.
And I'll definitely film and ifI can get a code for our
listeners, I definitely will.
'cause I love it so much.
So I'm excited.
Yay.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Good.
Cool.
This was a terrificconversation.
(48:35):
Thank you so much for having us.
Where can our listeners find youif they wanna see you themselves
or if they have children thatwanna see you?
Where can our listeners findyou?
I have a webpage.
It's dr keho do com.
So yeah, contact informationthere.
Perfect.
Okay.
And she is in Avon, Connecticut.
Yeah, she's terrific.
Great with kids, great withadults.
Love it.
And great with moms.
This is great.
Thank you so much.
(48:55):
This has been so helpful for ourlisteners.
And if you have Pippa's, if youhave any questions, you can text
that, text us at the bottom ofour show notes and we can get
some of that answered or followup questions or whatever.
But we're so happy to have youand lucky.
No, thanks.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
We'll see you guys next week.
Bye.
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