August 27, 2025 • 13 mins
What’s better than one Dylan O’Brien? Two. In James Sweeney’s new film Twinless, Dylan steps into double duty as twins, one gay and one straight, alongside Lauren Graham as their mom and Ashley Francesci bringing warmth and light to the chaos. Writer-director James Sweeney joins the cast to dive into why he wanted to tell a story about friendship, flaws, and the messy middle ground of being human.
On this episode of Pride, we talk about:
👯 Dylan’s dream-come-true of playing twins and how he found each brother’s unique voice
📺 Lauren Graham’s return to iconic mom territory with a darker twist
✨ Ashley Francesci’s take on friendship, accountability, and loving people through their hardest moments
🎬 James Sweeney’s vision of flawed, deeply human LGBTQ+ characters who feel universal
💥 Why Twinless isn’t tied up in a neat bow and why that’s the point
Messy, heartfelt, and funny, Twinless is out September 5th in theaters. Until then, Dylan, Lauren, Ashley, and James give us a peek into the wild ride that is making (and being) twins.
On this episode of Pride, we talk about:
👯 Dylan’s dream-come-true of playing twins and how he found each brother’s unique voice
📺 Lauren Graham’s return to iconic mom territory with a darker twist
✨ Ashley Francesci’s take on friendship, accountability, and loving people through their hardest moments
🎬 James Sweeney’s vision of flawed, deeply human LGBTQ+ characters who feel universal
💥 Why Twinless isn’t tied up in a neat bow and why that’s the point
Messy, heartfelt, and funny, Twinless is out September 5th in theaters. Until then, Dylan, Lauren, Ashley, and James give us a peek into the wild ride that is making (and being) twins.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw media and you have to have a cool mustache.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So okay, I I can't bring it up because that's,
you know, it's a little try hard. So I've been
waiting for people to bring up Yeah, thank.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
You, Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Cally Daniel. Welcome back to Pride. This week we
are talking about twins, more specifically James Sweeney's new film
Twin List, which stars Don't O'Brien, Lauren Graham, and so
many more iconic stars as well as James himself. So
let's get into it. I'm so excited to be talking
about twins because this is one of my favorite topics.
(00:44):
I'm realizing James in the film even talks about the
craze around twins and the love for people like Mary Kate,
Nashley in those films, Lindsay Lohan in The Parent Trap,
and honestly, I fall right into that category. I was
obsessed with all of those things growing up. I loved
(01:04):
all of the Mary Kate and n Ashley movies honestly,
and wanted to make them my entire personality. I wanted
to be them. I can't believe they were running around
Rome in one movie so young, but I was like
I can do that, like I can be ten and
run around Rome. I haven't yet. I think that's a
(01:25):
plot of one of them, but I wanted to. I
wanted to be in the Parent Trap. I love, love,
love those films, And talking to Dylan O'Brien, I realized
he also grew up on them, so this was a
really fun role for him to take on, and we
got to just get into it with the cast. This
film is also very messy, which I love because it
(01:47):
really shows the humanity of people and making mistakes and
not necessarily that it's all okay if you make mistakes,
but we're just we're all just human. We talk with
Two James about that and how LGBTQ characters are portrayed
here but everyone is just human and equal, and we
(02:09):
talk to Dylan about making his two twin characters, one
being gay, one being straight, and what it was like
to just create those different personalities. And also just have
Lorn back as an iconic mother. It's almost Gilmore Girls season,
so seeing her back again is so so fun. We
(02:31):
also have Ashley friend Chosi, who is incredible in this film.
She's so light and bubbly but also just really brings
to that idea of accepting others and being there for
people who really need someone in that moment. So all
of that will be covered in our interviews. The film
(02:51):
will be out September fifth in theaters, so stay tuned
for that and I'll see you afterwards. Lauren. I have
to say, I'm so excited whenever I see you come
(03:12):
back to be a mom, because I just feel like
you're like my mom.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Like it's just not in this movie.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I stand by her in this movie. I mean, I
love seeing that you've raised an entire, you know, generation.
Every fall you become our mom again. And now you're
back in Twinless to play Dylan O'Brien's mom. So how
does it feel to be back in that kind of role?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I felt like a different kind of role. I mean
I always say, yes, I have ended up in these moms,
one of which has had more staying power than I
might could have foreseen. But I don't go in thinking
like mom. I go in thinking, you know, who's this
person and what's this relationship? And I was so pleased
(03:59):
to get the chance to play somebody a little bit
messier and in a darker place. But more than that,
I just loved this movie from the minute I started
reading it, and I am such a fan of Dylan's
and just thought, this is something I just want to
be any part of at all. And I thought what
(04:20):
the movie thematically kind of looks at is so powerful
and positive, and so I'm just really really pleased with
how it came out. It came out even better than
it read, which was pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And you touched on this that these characters are definitely messy.
We see them probably at their messiest, at their most vulnerable,
and we also don't necessarily get to see how it's
all going to wrap up. We don't see their whole lives,
how everything is going to fall together. So why is
it important for audiences to kind of see this time
and their lives and when they're just making these decisions,
(04:56):
they don't really know what they're doing.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
But that's just life, right. I don't think we're ever
that our most perfect. I think in a day sometimes
we can run the gamut of being maybe not our
best selves and then maybe coming back to something that
we can be prouder of. And I think, you know,
that's kind of a lot of the times when you
see movies, they're just a snapshot of a person in
one spot. But I think what I like about this
(05:17):
film is that we see so many of these characters
show all their different size them or maybe they're also
represented by other characters, like in the case of Marci
and how really that's just life. We're just muddling through,
trying to figure things out. Sometimes it's harder than others.
And I mean, we all have our really crappy sides
and the side that we can be prouder of, and
(05:39):
I guess it's finding your place in a community of
people who will be willing to give you space and
grace to be all of that hopefully.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Also, this movie has a journey that I think is
really unexpected, where you don't know what's going to happen,
you don't know how this is going to evolve, and
I think it has almost a thriller kind of aspect
to it, I feel, which is like, how is this
going to resolve itself? This is a mess, and yet
it's a fun mess to watch. I mean, to watch
(06:10):
these two kind of have this romance is like really
entertaining and lovely and I don't want I don't want
it to end, you know, And so it really takes
you for a ride.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Absolutely, And Ashley, I wanted to go to you because
your character is so positive and I feel like she
does tend to see the good side in people, even
though again we're talking about how flawed these characters can
really be.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
So what do you think she really sees in Roman?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
In Dennis?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
I think in Dennis, you know, she probably feels that
he's a little bit lonely and knows that that is
a source of great pain for a lot of people,
and that maybe, yeah, he's a bit you know, spiky
around the edges, but she's willing to just at least
be a friend to him to kind of hopefully give
(06:58):
him some yeah, some hope. And with Roman, I think
she thinks she sees that he's someone who's hurting but
who has a huge heart, and she's willing to hold
his hand through his grief so that they can, you know,
help him heal and build something more. And even though
she is kind of the lightness and the positivity, what
I like is she shows that you can still, you know,
(07:20):
give people that grace and love them through their hard moments,
but that doesn't mean that you excuse what they're doing.
There's a difference between understanding and excusing, I think, and
she's very understanding, but she doesn't excuse. You know, she
holds Roman accountable when he kind of lashes out at
her and says, you know, I'm going to love you
through this, but I'm not excusing this kind of behavior.
And I think that's really the sign of someone who
(07:40):
really is willing to be there for you through thick
and thin.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I'm excited to talk about this movie. I have to say, Dylan,
you're living my fantasy of playing a twin. Maybe that
makes me twin crazed. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We are a little.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Bit right, like we're living in that I like a
Lindsay Lohan Parent Trap moment.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I mean to say, if you're in our age range,
that's how we were brought up.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Exactly right, Like I feel like it's I was gonna say,
it's my fantasy, hopefully it's one of yours.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Yeah, definitely mine.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It Takes two is one of my favorite movies ever
as a kid, and so was Parent Trap.
Speaker 6 (08:27):
And Yeah, what were.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You most excited when it came to playing Roman and
Rocky two very different characters, and were you would all
nervous to play rocky and portray him correctly.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Well, not nervous, no, or just no more so than
I always am in terms of wanting to like get
something right and and have something feel authentic. You know,
I felt genuinely so comfortable in both of these skins
because they were both colored with so many elements that
(09:02):
I identify with myself and that resonate with me. And I
felt that from from the first time I even read
the script that you know, I deeply connected to who
these guys were, and I had so many their qualities
inside me, and I could kind of, you know, uh
(09:22):
do a little mitosis. Is that what that was called?
Biout little splitsvill action, where you know, I felt so
comfortable with the elements that made up each of them,
and then I also felt so trusting and comfortable in
James's hands, And and then it's just about getting there
and having so much fun going for it and and
(09:42):
just letting it fly, and and and having permission from
him to be like, you know, go take it in further.
You know, we could always bring it back, you know.
So yeah, I mean it's it's the best way to work.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And you had to have a cool mustach, so I was.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I can't bring it up because that's, you know, it's
a little try hard. So I for people bringing.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Up mustache the fitted jeans, I saw it. I saw, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
On top of all of that, they're also just very
messy characters. We get to see queer people being very
messy as well. So what about this story and why
did you want audiences to really see that instead of
just these idolized versions about LGBTQ characters.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
Hmmm, I don't know if I see it specifically through
through that objective, I just try to, I guess as
a filmmaker, I'm trying to balance writing the world as
it is versus the world as I want to see it.
I think, you know, everybody's flawed. We're all human, and
I see Dennis as being a deeply human person, and
(10:46):
you know, definitely tracking how are we building empathy and
understanding his character and why he makes the decisions he makes.
That's absolutely part of like the the structuring of the
film and the coloring process. But yeah, ultimately, I just
feel like there is universality and specificity, and I don't
(11:10):
think it matters if you're you're gay or straight or whatever.
Hopefully this is the film you can enjoy because it's
ultimately about friendship and hopefully everybody has a friend.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Everyone should have a friend, especially Dennis.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
He needs I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Limits Okay, So that was the cast and creators of Twinless.
They're so wonderful. I would have talked to them for
hours about this film because we barely scratch the surface
on what goes on in this movie. But it was
(11:51):
so fun chatting with them. I can't wait for you
all to see Dylan's depiction of the Twins. It was
so so fun, and it's just fun seeing characters that
are messy and are making these decisions and you can
see why they're making them, and you know they're wrong
in the moment, but like it's just about life and
(12:12):
humanity and how we all need support and we all
need to be there for each other. And I think
that's that's just really deep and fun to see. And
you also, you don't always get the resolution that you want.
You don't always get to see how everything gets tied
up in a bow. If you're expecting that out of
this movie, maybe don't see it, but I definitely recommend it.
(12:33):
It was It was an amazing amazing time, So go
see Twinless out September fifth, and stay tuned for more
Pride interviews. You can follow us at Pride on social media.
You can find us anywhere you watch or listen to
podcasts at Pride and I'll see next time. Right Actition
(13:01):
National Guestification
Straw media and you have to have a cool mustache.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So okay, I I can't bring it up because that's,
you know, it's a little try hard. So I've been
waiting for people to bring up Yeah, thank.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
You, Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm Cally Daniel. Welcome back to Pride. This week we
are talking about twins, more specifically James Sweeney's new film
Twin List, which stars Don't O'Brien, Lauren Graham, and so
many more iconic stars as well as James himself. So
let's get into it. I'm so excited to be talking
about twins because this is one of my favorite topics.
(00:44):
I'm realizing James in the film even talks about the
craze around twins and the love for people like Mary Kate,
Nashley in those films, Lindsay Lohan in The Parent Trap,
and honestly, I fall right into that category. I was
obsessed with all of those things growing up. I loved
(01:04):
all of the Mary Kate and n Ashley movies honestly,
and wanted to make them my entire personality. I wanted
to be them. I can't believe they were running around
Rome in one movie so young, but I was like
I can do that, like I can be ten and
run around Rome. I haven't yet. I think that's a
(01:25):
plot of one of them, but I wanted to. I
wanted to be in the Parent Trap. I love, love,
love those films, And talking to Dylan O'Brien, I realized
he also grew up on them, so this was a
really fun role for him to take on, and we
got to just get into it with the cast. This
film is also very messy, which I love because it
(01:47):
really shows the humanity of people and making mistakes and
not necessarily that it's all okay if you make mistakes,
but we're just we're all just human. We talk with
Two James about that and how LGBTQ characters are portrayed
here but everyone is just human and equal, and we
(02:09):
talk to Dylan about making his two twin characters, one
being gay, one being straight, and what it was like
to just create those different personalities. And also just have
Lorn back as an iconic mother. It's almost Gilmore Girls season,
so seeing her back again is so so fun. We
(02:31):
also have Ashley friend Chosi, who is incredible in this film.
She's so light and bubbly but also just really brings
to that idea of accepting others and being there for
people who really need someone in that moment. So all
of that will be covered in our interviews. The film
(02:51):
will be out September fifth in theaters, so stay tuned
for that and I'll see you afterwards. Lauren. I have
to say, I'm so excited whenever I see you come
(03:12):
back to be a mom, because I just feel like
you're like my mom.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Like it's just not in this movie.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I stand by her in this movie. I mean, I
love seeing that you've raised an entire, you know, generation.
Every fall you become our mom again. And now you're
back in Twinless to play Dylan O'Brien's mom. So how
does it feel to be back in that kind of role?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I felt like a different kind of role. I mean
I always say, yes, I have ended up in these moms,
one of which has had more staying power than I
might could have foreseen. But I don't go in thinking
like mom. I go in thinking, you know, who's this
person and what's this relationship? And I was so pleased
(03:59):
to get the chance to play somebody a little bit
messier and in a darker place. But more than that,
I just loved this movie from the minute I started
reading it, and I am such a fan of Dylan's
and just thought, this is something I just want to
be any part of at all. And I thought what
(04:20):
the movie thematically kind of looks at is so powerful
and positive, and so I'm just really really pleased with
how it came out. It came out even better than
it read, which was pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And you touched on this that these characters are definitely messy.
We see them probably at their messiest, at their most vulnerable,
and we also don't necessarily get to see how it's
all going to wrap up. We don't see their whole lives,
how everything is going to fall together. So why is
it important for audiences to kind of see this time
and their lives and when they're just making these decisions,
(04:56):
they don't really know what they're doing.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
But that's just life, right. I don't think we're ever
that our most perfect. I think in a day sometimes
we can run the gamut of being maybe not our
best selves and then maybe coming back to something that
we can be prouder of. And I think, you know,
that's kind of a lot of the times when you
see movies, they're just a snapshot of a person in
one spot. But I think what I like about this
(05:17):
film is that we see so many of these characters
show all their different size them or maybe they're also
represented by other characters, like in the case of Marci
and how really that's just life. We're just muddling through,
trying to figure things out. Sometimes it's harder than others.
And I mean, we all have our really crappy sides
and the side that we can be prouder of, and
(05:39):
I guess it's finding your place in a community of
people who will be willing to give you space and
grace to be all of that hopefully.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Also, this movie has a journey that I think is
really unexpected, where you don't know what's going to happen,
you don't know how this is going to evolve, and
I think it has almost a thriller kind of aspect
to it, I feel, which is like, how is this
going to resolve itself? This is a mess, and yet
it's a fun mess to watch. I mean, to watch
(06:10):
these two kind of have this romance is like really
entertaining and lovely and I don't want I don't want
it to end, you know, And so it really takes
you for a ride.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Absolutely, And Ashley, I wanted to go to you because
your character is so positive and I feel like she
does tend to see the good side in people, even
though again we're talking about how flawed these characters can
really be.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
So what do you think she really sees in Roman?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
In Dennis?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
I think in Dennis, you know, she probably feels that
he's a little bit lonely and knows that that is
a source of great pain for a lot of people,
and that maybe, yeah, he's a bit you know, spiky
around the edges, but she's willing to just at least
be a friend to him to kind of hopefully give
(06:58):
him some yeah, some hope. And with Roman, I think
she thinks she sees that he's someone who's hurting but
who has a huge heart, and she's willing to hold
his hand through his grief so that they can, you know,
help him heal and build something more. And even though
she is kind of the lightness and the positivity, what
I like is she shows that you can still, you know,
(07:20):
give people that grace and love them through their hard moments,
but that doesn't mean that you excuse what they're doing.
There's a difference between understanding and excusing, I think, and
she's very understanding, but she doesn't excuse. You know, she
holds Roman accountable when he kind of lashes out at
her and says, you know, I'm going to love you
through this, but I'm not excusing this kind of behavior.
And I think that's really the sign of someone who
(07:40):
really is willing to be there for you through thick
and thin.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I'm excited to talk about this movie. I have to say, Dylan,
you're living my fantasy of playing a twin. Maybe that
makes me twin crazed. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
We are a little.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Bit right, like we're living in that I like a
Lindsay Lohan Parent Trap moment.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I mean to say, if you're in our age range,
that's how we were brought up.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Exactly right, Like I feel like it's I was gonna say,
it's my fantasy, hopefully it's one of yours.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Yeah, definitely mine.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It Takes two is one of my favorite movies ever
as a kid, and so was Parent Trap.
Speaker 6 (08:27):
And Yeah, what were.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You most excited when it came to playing Roman and
Rocky two very different characters, and were you would all
nervous to play rocky and portray him correctly.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Well, not nervous, no, or just no more so than
I always am in terms of wanting to like get
something right and and have something feel authentic. You know,
I felt genuinely so comfortable in both of these skins
because they were both colored with so many elements that
(09:02):
I identify with myself and that resonate with me. And I
felt that from from the first time I even read
the script that you know, I deeply connected to who
these guys were, and I had so many their qualities
inside me, and I could kind of, you know, uh
(09:22):
do a little mitosis. Is that what that was called?
Biout little splitsvill action, where you know, I felt so
comfortable with the elements that made up each of them,
and then I also felt so trusting and comfortable in
James's hands, And and then it's just about getting there
and having so much fun going for it and and
(09:42):
just letting it fly, and and and having permission from
him to be like, you know, go take it in further.
You know, we could always bring it back, you know.
So yeah, I mean it's it's the best way to work.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And you had to have a cool mustach, so I was.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I can't bring it up because that's, you know, it's
a little try hard. So I for people bringing.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Up mustache the fitted jeans, I saw it. I saw, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
On top of all of that, they're also just very
messy characters. We get to see queer people being very
messy as well. So what about this story and why
did you want audiences to really see that instead of
just these idolized versions about LGBTQ characters.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
Hmmm, I don't know if I see it specifically through
through that objective, I just try to, I guess as
a filmmaker, I'm trying to balance writing the world as
it is versus the world as I want to see it.
I think, you know, everybody's flawed. We're all human, and
I see Dennis as being a deeply human person, and
(10:46):
you know, definitely tracking how are we building empathy and
understanding his character and why he makes the decisions he makes.
That's absolutely part of like the the structuring of the
film and the coloring process. But yeah, ultimately, I just
feel like there is universality and specificity, and I don't
(11:10):
think it matters if you're you're gay or straight or whatever.
Hopefully this is the film you can enjoy because it's
ultimately about friendship and hopefully everybody has a friend.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Everyone should have a friend, especially Dennis.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
He needs I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Limits Okay, So that was the cast and creators of Twinless.
They're so wonderful. I would have talked to them for
hours about this film because we barely scratch the surface
on what goes on in this movie. But it was
(11:51):
so fun chatting with them. I can't wait for you
all to see Dylan's depiction of the Twins. It was
so so fun, and it's just fun seeing characters that
are messy and are making these decisions and you can
see why they're making them, and you know they're wrong
in the moment, but like it's just about life and
(12:12):
humanity and how we all need support and we all
need to be there for each other. And I think
that's that's just really deep and fun to see. And
you also, you don't always get the resolution that you want.
You don't always get to see how everything gets tied
up in a bow. If you're expecting that out of
this movie, maybe don't see it, but I definitely recommend it.
(12:33):
It was It was an amazing amazing time, So go
see Twinless out September fifth, and stay tuned for more
Pride interviews. You can follow us at Pride on social media.
You can find us anywhere you watch or listen to
podcasts at Pride and I'll see next time. Right Actition
(13:01):
National Guestification
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.